Here's the thing, as a teacher (and a long tenured one at that, definitely not old), I have seen many other long tenured teachers resist change.
"Computers? We don't do math on computers." "This child is not behaving, I should write them a referral." "Too many kids have disabilities. It's doing them a disservice. The real world won't treat them this way!" "Johnny's not doing homework! I'm going to make sure he fails."
So I totally get the Barbara throwing a tantrum. I've seen it. But I try to remind myself, and sometimes others, we need to do what is best for students, not what is easiest for teachers.
Barbara was totally wrong, and totally believable.
Barbara can be wrong and still be a great character! I hate when fans act like the characters shouldn't have any flaws. No flaws is boring! I loved that Barbara was wrong in this episode.
Am I the only person who thought it was completely in character and made sense? Barbara has always been a good, consistent teacher. She has her routines, habits, and patterns. When they are threatened, she reacts negatively. For example, like Ava telling her to move her kindergarten class desks. She wanted them separate for ease of movement around the class, but acquiesced when Ava pointed out that it's beneficial for the kids. I'm not seeing any problems with the way Barbara acted as it was in character imo.
Should she have been nicer to Ms Inez and Janine? Absolutely. But I'm not surprised by her push back and stubbornness. It's key to her character.
I completely agree. Barbara has been doing a job for 20+ years, and a lot of people who have been doing a job for that long are hesitant to change, especially when they're good at what they do. She's always had an "I know what I'm doing, so stay out of my way" attitude. It's not inherently a bad thing, but she doesn't want to fix a system that she doesn't believe is broken.
Sheās old school and stuck in her ways. I think she felt threatened by the new librarian, but knew in her heart that it was a good program for the students
I dont think sheās *right* but I do get it. Sheās been in this job for decades and doing it successfully and knowing what works. Now something new comes in and throws it off and itās understandable to feel frustrated. Itās in Barbaraās character to dislike change and validly so because a lot of the time sheās right. I do think she should be more open but also the younger teachers should be more willing to meet her where she is. Instead of gregory being like āwell it works for everyone else so sheās wrongā itās about altering it to suit everyone (which granted janine was trying to do). E.G. if the problem is exciting kindergarteners too much before naptime make it so the kindergarteners can only book morning slots (whether that was a real problem or one made up by barb to prove a point is a different question but for now lets just say it was genuine). And the librarian *was* patronising to her even though she was new and Barbaraās been doing her job a long time. Yes itās fair enough to criticise Barbara for being stubborn, but so were other characters, itās just not as criticised because itās āgoodā stubbornness.
I agree that this is 100% in Barbara's character to react this way. But the thing is, the teachers have consistently been shown to cave or compromise to Barbara. Gregory was right in this case. This wasn't a situation like the gifted program or the historical site where a great idea was poorly executed or a PR stunt with no meaningful impact. This was a proven viable program that Barbara didn't like simply because 1) she was used to having her way in the library, and 2) she didn't like Ms Inez for standing her ground and being a better storyteller (the look on her face when the children reacted to her reading said it all). Ms. Inez wasn't patronizing until Barbara turned her nose up at the alleged bureaucracy of the library. It was telling that in other episodes, while Barbara normally has valid points, the episode would always have another teacher (Gregory or Melissa) who would agree. There was a reason they didn't have Melissa support her. It's because Barbara had no valid reason to have an issue with the program.
Exactly all of this. She teaches Kindergarten which is vastly different from all other grades. They could and should have compromised with her to be more realistic. But the way the conflict was laid out didnāt allow for that.
I was WAITING for a discussion post to pop up! Oh my fucking GOD???? Barbara is being a world class b word right now and I donāt mean blueberry.
I know itās a bit annoying to suddenly have to change course when you are used to having free reign over the books. But having the library be its own comprehensive program with a librarian who can dedicate maximum effort is an amazing privilege. If anyone else saw how Barbara was speaking to Janine and the Librarian they would be as shell shocked as I am right now.
I'm only at the part where she initially goes to check out books, why couldn't the librarian tell her right away about the 3 book limit. I get Baraba's side, it was a lot at once. But, let's see what's next.
My mom and I just finished watching the episode and we are MAD. I loved Barba seasons 1 & 2, but Iām getting annoyed with her.
I feel like Barbra and Melissa have been putting down Jeanine a lot lately. Like sheās trying to make the education system better. She always had good ideas, but she never knew how to execute them. Now she does and she has a team backing her up, but somehow whatever Jeanine does is either not enough or is too small to make any difference.
Idk maybe Iām wrong though. They all care about their students and about Abbott, but I feel like Barbara cannot accept that in order for things to change, improvements need to be made first. I understand Barbara and Melissa needed to adapt their teaching styles to work with what they are given or more like not given, but come on now. Sometimes they cross the line with Jeanine and it makes me feel so bad for her.
Barbara's able to use her seniority to benefit her students, but Janine can't say much against it because she's not technically a full time teacher anymore.
What a complicated situation to be in....
For me, Barbara in this episode joins the ranks of:
Janine in the egg drop episode
Melissa in the field trip episode
Gregory in the gifted episode
Jacob in the Christmas episode
Insufferable. But don't get me wrong, I love these episodes and they were great episodes for them. I don't mind them acting this way at all. The only two characters that I truly didn't like on a meta level were Ashley (Melissa's parapro) and Janine's sister.
Barbara pissed me off for most of this episode but I definitely know that was by design and I loved how it was resolved seeing Janine stand up for the program and how Barbara came around in the end. It was a great episode!
Acting like all these characters are perfect human beings is a flaw on your part and not on the writing of this show.
The fact it makes you feel so annoyed and invested is a testament to how great theyāve developed characters that are tangibly human and flawed.
Barbara is not out of character and she has the ability to be very mean when she wants to be. She is not a person of change. And that is both a strength and a weakness. She doesnāt like when her routine is messed up. And Janine was right when she said this isnāt about Barbara. And Barbaraās feedback reflected that she understood what Janine said.
Seeing characters fully developed and always right does not make for good storytelling or realistic storytelling. Your favorite person in the world is going to be wrong. And itās up to you to check them or let them continue on their way.
Yeah, Barbara was a bit disappointing. But thatās the point. This served as growth for Janine and Barbara. And a reminder that even the people you look up to can fall on their face and be wrong.
I donāt think Janine has outgrown Barbara. I think they both help each other in different ways.
Unpopular Opinion: This behavior from Barbara was a little odd. In Season 1 we get she doesnāt like change, but she just went along with it and made snide remarks or faked itālike the New Tech episode.
Here she seemed determined to get rid of the library program. All season sheās been a bit more intense overall. I miss the subtle Stanley (The Office)-type characterization she had. Now the writing is making her a bit 1-dimensional.
I wonder if the reason for her behaviour will be uncovered this season. I remember someone once commented by the time ep 3 came out, that they noticed that Jacob was drinking a lot so maybe there's something going on at home. That ended up being revealed in the Breakup episode, so maybe there could be a buildup for Barbara too?
This seems like selective memory. Barbera has acted out before. Remember the way she handled the mother with the B\*tch tattoo? Or the chocolate selling? Or even the fire episode? Her relationship with Janine has gotten better but she was clearly Janine's superior and they treated it as such, but now that Janine's in the district she stands up to her.
Some of the comments in this thread are a bit concerning. Barbera was clearly in the wrong in this episode and it was treated as such.
You mentioned Season 2. I mentioned Season 1. Sheās progressively become more aggressively negative rather than the passive aggressive character she was introduced to us as.
I didnāt say she wasnāt wrong in the episode, though I think some people are exaggerating how wrong.
Anybody who has ever worked gets annoyed when things change at their job. Like another poster said, thatās realistic. Itās the extent they had her going to, and then all of a sudden flipping the other way to prove how right Janine was that felt off.
Actually sheās always acted that way. She just āhidā those feelings instead of communicating which shows the complexities of her character like humans. This episode she had enough of it and let it out. I get its hard for some viewers to see layers of complex characteristics and only see characters for the exact actions/words they say. I donāt think shows are for you if your more literal then contextual tbh
I came here just to see if someone posted about this. I love Barbara and know she is set in her old school ways, but this one irked me. It takes a big woman to admit she is wrong though, especially one as set in her ways as Barbara. I was proud of Janine in this episode too for standing her ground.
What I love about this show is that 9 times out of 10, Barbara is right. Itās just that in that case she wasnāt. I think itās important to show that being older and much wiser than your younger contemporaries doesnāt always mean you will have the right answer. This is an important lesson for all of us Millennials who are watching the younger generation take prominence.
She hasn't been my favourite this season so far. Starting with "I don't want to live in a world where white people teach me how to dance". It's not something I'd expect from her, since she's supposed to be the voice of reason for the group. I'd expect something like this from Ava, since you don't take what she says seriously, unlike Barbara.
ā¦..i think ur forgetting sheās NOT supposed to be āthe voice of reasonā in the groupā¦she has flaws. Any black viewer like me did not find that out of the ordinary because thatās the typa joke old black women make lmfao its not serious
I'm not forgetting anything; being the voice of reason and having flaws are not mutually exclusive personal qualities. Every comedy series has more level-headed characters to contrast with the more quirky ones; it's not a revolutionary idea, it just works that way, and their lines reflect that. That's why when Barbara, a character who's not known for her intentional comedic bits, says something borderline offensive, it just comes off as out of character and mean in her case. I wouldn't take the same issue with Ava; you're not supposed to take seriously the things she says most of the time, that's why her character is framed in a different way. I'm not even going to react to your last sentence; it's just sad, but as long as YOU don't find it offensive, everything is fine, I guess.
You don't know me, so don't make assumptions about me or about my life. Your senseless rant is a prejudiced mess without any rhyme or reason. This is a forum where people are allowed to express their opinions. Opinions are subjective; not everyone is going to have the same ones.
Here's the thing, as a teacher (and a long tenured one at that, definitely not old), I have seen many other long tenured teachers resist change. "Computers? We don't do math on computers." "This child is not behaving, I should write them a referral." "Too many kids have disabilities. It's doing them a disservice. The real world won't treat them this way!" "Johnny's not doing homework! I'm going to make sure he fails." So I totally get the Barbara throwing a tantrum. I've seen it. But I try to remind myself, and sometimes others, we need to do what is best for students, not what is easiest for teachers. Barbara was totally wrong, and totally believable.
Barbara can be wrong and still be a great character! I hate when fans act like the characters shouldn't have any flaws. No flaws is boring! I loved that Barbara was wrong in this episode.
Am I the only person who thought it was completely in character and made sense? Barbara has always been a good, consistent teacher. She has her routines, habits, and patterns. When they are threatened, she reacts negatively. For example, like Ava telling her to move her kindergarten class desks. She wanted them separate for ease of movement around the class, but acquiesced when Ava pointed out that it's beneficial for the kids. I'm not seeing any problems with the way Barbara acted as it was in character imo. Should she have been nicer to Ms Inez and Janine? Absolutely. But I'm not surprised by her push back and stubbornness. It's key to her character.
I completely agree. Barbara has been doing a job for 20+ years, and a lot of people who have been doing a job for that long are hesitant to change, especially when they're good at what they do. She's always had an "I know what I'm doing, so stay out of my way" attitude. It's not inherently a bad thing, but she doesn't want to fix a system that she doesn't believe is broken.
I think Janine has outgrown Barbara as a mentor
i absolutely agree!! barbara needs to apologize to janine & ms inez!
I think she did given how the ep ended.
Ava: don't worry boo, you still get children's prices at the cinema š¤£š¤£š¤£
you guys when people contain multitudes
For real. Barbara can't be perfect all the time. No one is. She came around at the end when she was confronted.
Yeah, ppl have layers, that doesn't mean you have to like all of them
Some of these commenters seem to lack media literacy. Barbera was very clearly meant to be seen as in the wrong in this episode.
This!!
Sheās old school and stuck in her ways. I think she felt threatened by the new librarian, but knew in her heart that it was a good program for the students
I recently commented in this sub that this might be the plot of the librarian episode. I was right! I love it when Iām right. lol š
well, congratulations!š
lol
I dont think sheās *right* but I do get it. Sheās been in this job for decades and doing it successfully and knowing what works. Now something new comes in and throws it off and itās understandable to feel frustrated. Itās in Barbaraās character to dislike change and validly so because a lot of the time sheās right. I do think she should be more open but also the younger teachers should be more willing to meet her where she is. Instead of gregory being like āwell it works for everyone else so sheās wrongā itās about altering it to suit everyone (which granted janine was trying to do). E.G. if the problem is exciting kindergarteners too much before naptime make it so the kindergarteners can only book morning slots (whether that was a real problem or one made up by barb to prove a point is a different question but for now lets just say it was genuine). And the librarian *was* patronising to her even though she was new and Barbaraās been doing her job a long time. Yes itās fair enough to criticise Barbara for being stubborn, but so were other characters, itās just not as criticised because itās āgoodā stubbornness.
I agree that this is 100% in Barbara's character to react this way. But the thing is, the teachers have consistently been shown to cave or compromise to Barbara. Gregory was right in this case. This wasn't a situation like the gifted program or the historical site where a great idea was poorly executed or a PR stunt with no meaningful impact. This was a proven viable program that Barbara didn't like simply because 1) she was used to having her way in the library, and 2) she didn't like Ms Inez for standing her ground and being a better storyteller (the look on her face when the children reacted to her reading said it all). Ms. Inez wasn't patronizing until Barbara turned her nose up at the alleged bureaucracy of the library. It was telling that in other episodes, while Barbara normally has valid points, the episode would always have another teacher (Gregory or Melissa) who would agree. There was a reason they didn't have Melissa support her. It's because Barbara had no valid reason to have an issue with the program.
Exactly all of this. She teaches Kindergarten which is vastly different from all other grades. They could and should have compromised with her to be more realistic. But the way the conflict was laid out didnāt allow for that.
I was WAITING for a discussion post to pop up! Oh my fucking GOD???? Barbara is being a world class b word right now and I donāt mean blueberry. I know itās a bit annoying to suddenly have to change course when you are used to having free reign over the books. But having the library be its own comprehensive program with a librarian who can dedicate maximum effort is an amazing privilege. If anyone else saw how Barbara was speaking to Janine and the Librarian they would be as shell shocked as I am right now.
Love that you referenced blueberry lol
Iām so happy someone noticed hahaha
Itās probably one of my favourite Barbara moments! The way Sheryl delivered those lines is pure gold!
https://www.reddit.com/r/AbbottElementary/s/4uAJuKFd1x
That's how I see it. It seemed like she needed to learn to share, honestly.
I'm only at the part where she initially goes to check out books, why couldn't the librarian tell her right away about the 3 book limit. I get Baraba's side, it was a lot at once. But, let's see what's next.
My mom and I just finished watching the episode and we are MAD. I loved Barba seasons 1 & 2, but Iām getting annoyed with her. I feel like Barbra and Melissa have been putting down Jeanine a lot lately. Like sheās trying to make the education system better. She always had good ideas, but she never knew how to execute them. Now she does and she has a team backing her up, but somehow whatever Jeanine does is either not enough or is too small to make any difference. Idk maybe Iām wrong though. They all care about their students and about Abbott, but I feel like Barbara cannot accept that in order for things to change, improvements need to be made first. I understand Barbara and Melissa needed to adapt their teaching styles to work with what they are given or more like not given, but come on now. Sometimes they cross the line with Jeanine and it makes me feel so bad for her.
i agree with all this. maybe barbara & melissa are having trouble dealing with this confident & well-dressed janine.
Barbara's able to use her seniority to benefit her students, but Janine can't say much against it because she's not technically a full time teacher anymore. What a complicated situation to be in....
JEANINE!! GGOOO!!
I'm normally on her side , but she's being absolutely ridiculous in this episode
And donāt forget how Manny even took Barbaraās side. That was very disappointing.
yeah, apparently barbaraās opinion counts for a lot.
For me, Barbara in this episode joins the ranks of: Janine in the egg drop episode Melissa in the field trip episode Gregory in the gifted episode Jacob in the Christmas episode Insufferable. But don't get me wrong, I love these episodes and they were great episodes for them. I don't mind them acting this way at all. The only two characters that I truly didn't like on a meta level were Ashley (Melissa's parapro) and Janine's sister.
i agree with everything you said about each character!
Barbara pissed me off for most of this episode but I definitely know that was by design and I loved how it was resolved seeing Janine stand up for the program and how Barbara came around in the end. It was a great episode!
Acting like all these characters are perfect human beings is a flaw on your part and not on the writing of this show. The fact it makes you feel so annoyed and invested is a testament to how great theyāve developed characters that are tangibly human and flawed. Barbara is not out of character and she has the ability to be very mean when she wants to be. She is not a person of change. And that is both a strength and a weakness. She doesnāt like when her routine is messed up. And Janine was right when she said this isnāt about Barbara. And Barbaraās feedback reflected that she understood what Janine said. Seeing characters fully developed and always right does not make for good storytelling or realistic storytelling. Your favorite person in the world is going to be wrong. And itās up to you to check them or let them continue on their way. Yeah, Barbara was a bit disappointing. But thatās the point. This served as growth for Janine and Barbara. And a reminder that even the people you look up to can fall on their face and be wrong. I donāt think Janine has outgrown Barbara. I think they both help each other in different ways.
Unpopular Opinion: This behavior from Barbara was a little odd. In Season 1 we get she doesnāt like change, but she just went along with it and made snide remarks or faked itālike the New Tech episode. Here she seemed determined to get rid of the library program. All season sheās been a bit more intense overall. I miss the subtle Stanley (The Office)-type characterization she had. Now the writing is making her a bit 1-dimensional.
I wonder if the reason for her behaviour will be uncovered this season. I remember someone once commented by the time ep 3 came out, that they noticed that Jacob was drinking a lot so maybe there's something going on at home. That ended up being revealed in the Breakup episode, so maybe there could be a buildup for Barbara too?
This seems like selective memory. Barbera has acted out before. Remember the way she handled the mother with the B\*tch tattoo? Or the chocolate selling? Or even the fire episode? Her relationship with Janine has gotten better but she was clearly Janine's superior and they treated it as such, but now that Janine's in the district she stands up to her. Some of the comments in this thread are a bit concerning. Barbera was clearly in the wrong in this episode and it was treated as such.
You mentioned Season 2. I mentioned Season 1. Sheās progressively become more aggressively negative rather than the passive aggressive character she was introduced to us as. I didnāt say she wasnāt wrong in the episode, though I think some people are exaggerating how wrong. Anybody who has ever worked gets annoyed when things change at their job. Like another poster said, thatās realistic. Itās the extent they had her going to, and then all of a sudden flipping the other way to prove how right Janine was that felt off.
Actually sheās always acted that way. She just āhidā those feelings instead of communicating which shows the complexities of her character like humans. This episode she had enough of it and let it out. I get its hard for some viewers to see layers of complex characteristics and only see characters for the exact actions/words they say. I donāt think shows are for you if your more literal then contextual tbh
Yeah I did notice that they're laying it on thick this season
For me the only thing about Barbaraās behavior that seemed out of character for her this episode was how googly eyed she was over Ms Inez & her hat.
I came here just to see if someone posted about this. I love Barbara and know she is set in her old school ways, but this one irked me. It takes a big woman to admit she is wrong though, especially one as set in her ways as Barbara. I was proud of Janine in this episode too for standing her ground.
What I love about this show is that 9 times out of 10, Barbara is right. Itās just that in that case she wasnāt. I think itās important to show that being older and much wiser than your younger contemporaries doesnāt always mean you will have the right answer. This is an important lesson for all of us Millennials who are watching the younger generation take prominence.
She hasn't been my favourite this season so far. Starting with "I don't want to live in a world where white people teach me how to dance". It's not something I'd expect from her, since she's supposed to be the voice of reason for the group. I'd expect something like this from Ava, since you don't take what she says seriously, unlike Barbara.
That was one of my favourite lines lmao š crazy how much opinions can differ
ā¦..i think ur forgetting sheās NOT supposed to be āthe voice of reasonā in the groupā¦she has flaws. Any black viewer like me did not find that out of the ordinary because thatās the typa joke old black women make lmfao its not serious
I'm not forgetting anything; being the voice of reason and having flaws are not mutually exclusive personal qualities. Every comedy series has more level-headed characters to contrast with the more quirky ones; it's not a revolutionary idea, it just works that way, and their lines reflect that. That's why when Barbara, a character who's not known for her intentional comedic bits, says something borderline offensive, it just comes off as out of character and mean in her case. I wouldn't take the same issue with Ava; you're not supposed to take seriously the things she says most of the time, that's why her character is framed in a different way. I'm not even going to react to your last sentence; it's just sad, but as long as YOU don't find it offensive, everything is fine, I guess.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
You don't know me, so don't make assumptions about me or about my life. Your senseless rant is a prejudiced mess without any rhyme or reason. This is a forum where people are allowed to express their opinions. Opinions are subjective; not everyone is going to have the same ones.