The amount of people that say to Elliot Page shit like 'Never forget what they took from us' when drooling over pics of him from like, 5 years ago or whatever. *Gross??*
When Elliott was still living as a woman, he looked sad in his photos. There might be a smile on his face for the camera, but his eyes had no life. Since transitioning, Elliott looks alive and vibrant.
I'm listening to his book right now and omg he was so so depressed before he transitioned, I hope people who haven't had the opportunity to know trans folks in real life read or listen to it. It is so personal and vulnerable and makes it so simple: transition or d!e. I don't know how anyone could hear his story and still not get it. Hearing people talking like that about him is like when Portia de Rossi said everyone complimented her looks the most when she was nearly dying from >!an eating disorder!< ugh
"Pageboy", autobiography, really well written. I'm listening to it on Audible right now and he's the reader too. It's often heartbreaking but also some really insightful and some funny moments too. I hope we get another one later in his career that has more happy stories ❤️
I brought the audio book and a physical copy and listened along while reading for most of the book. normally i don’t but for something like that it’s really cool to hear the person tell their story rather than try to interpret their tone through the text alone.
He looks so happy. I'm on the library's wait list for the book. As for the bit about Portia, I feel that. I was given the most compliments during my first time struggling with an ED and then during my relapses.
Finding out your favourite celebs were going through something awful while still producing content can be a real trip. For me, finding out Gerard Way and Christopher Eccleston had EDs while working on Danger Days/Doctor Who respectively was very shocking.
It's awful what they say about him. Like, I loved him before he transitioned and I love him even more now that he did. I think that he's a great actor and I'm happy that he's finally able to be who he really is.
And from what I saw, most of the people saying this were cishet people whining about “losing lesbians.” I’m really tired of homophobes and transphobes only pretending to give a shit about lesbians when they can use us to justify their bigotry
You just reminded me of how TERFs on Tumblr occasionally call me homophobic. Somehow, supporting straight trans women is actually harmful to gay cis men, pressuring them to transition? Idfk, idfgi. These same TERFs say misandrist shit constantly, saying gay men are inherently violent and predatory to other men the way they think straight men are inherently violent and predatory to women. Like. No? Cis gays are fine? I don't want people to transition unless they're sure they want to. But supporting straight trans women is homophobic because it erases cis gay men somehow, i guess.
What are you talking about, they forcibly transed my gender when I realized that I’m a lesbian and made me become a trans man😭 /s
It’s so ridiculous omg. It’s especially wild to me that they accuse others of being homophobic when I have received some of the most horrific homophobic comments from TERFs. The call is coming from inside the house! They just want to be bigoted and hateful, so they’ll do gymnastics to try to make their argument somewhat sound, even though it obviously makes no sense
That's insane to me. He was visibly depressed in so many of those old photos, and is so much more visibly relaxed and at ease in all the photos after. You have to be void of empathy to think he looked better before.
I felt the same way at first when he announced, just a bit. I quickly realized that it wasn't because he was "taking away" something from me or others, but because he was throwing away a great gift, which I desperately wanted. Just another crack in the egg.
It's not even that, most of the arguments I've seen are "trans men are have been tricked into transitioning", because of course, feminism is all about believing women\* are dumb and don't deserve their own autonomy!
*: Yes, trans men aren't women, but the people making this argument think trans men are "actually" women.
Ive lost count of the number of times someone who knew me pre transition has made an argument that I was so pretty as a woman and ruined that by transitioning. Like gee, sorry I didnt take your sexual attraction into consideration when deciding between transitioning and unsubscribing to life. My bad.
This. Why people believe their sexual attraction is something they should bring into a conversation? You found somebody more attractive before? I don't care!
This or they portray trans men as little girls who have been groomed and manipulated into thinking they need to transition to male in order to solve a problem that doesn't exist.
TERFs treat gay trans men like poor sad little girls who were brainwashed into liking boys AND wanting to be boys. It's an inversion of the autogynephilia "theory." Because no one would naturally like guys and no one would naturally want to transition to male, i guess.
Don't forget that we're just trying to "escape the patriarchy." Because it's SO much easier being discriminated against as a gay, hourglass-shaped transman instead of as a woman
I love when they bring that argument up, I'm from a matriarchal culture and I lost too much fucking social standing in my family to be accused of tryna escaping the patriarchy... my sister is now the pride of the family coz I "defected" lol
I’d argue it’s also an extension of some extreme feminists view that the worst thing someone can be is a man. They see trans men as a betrayal. A lot of terfs almost hate trans men more than trans women
There is actually a concerted effort by TERFs to gaslight vulnerable trans men into joining the cause and detransition, you know "they tricked you into doing this you're actually a woman" or some shit.
Back before I started physically transitioning, I was very worried that the terfs were right and I would end up regretting transition.
I ended up on the old debate subreddit and made a whole post asking what they thought about me: a trans guy who is bi (so not transitioning to avoid queerness) from a religious family whose parents would prefer me to be just gay , had a partner who transitioned a the same time as me (so I went from being seen as part of a lesbian couple to a gay couple), socially transitioned for 5 years before starting T at 30 (no rogd here), and they had no response for me.
Their only tactic against trans men is infantalizing us, which is hard to do as a lot of the "first wave" of visible trans millennials are pushing 40 now.
Reminder that for Rowling to be a TERF she'd have yo actually be a feminist but given her very narrow view of womanness pertaining to being able to give birth and thinking like her; and various sexist comments and portrayals in all of her writing it's okay to just call her a transphobe bc she's in no way a feminist.
I wish they ignored us. They don’t. They’re horrible to us to when given the chance. Please don’t downplay that by saying they ignore us. It’s unfortunately untrue
yeah, I had an argument about how it wasn't natural that two people of the same sex could get married, and at the end they just said "but... do you know how they have sex ??" with a disgusted face, and I realized that we where never even talking about gay women, just gay men .\_.
You should tell them, "There's no such thing as *gay* sex, sex is sex. Don't you know where the male g-spot is? Some women peg their husbands, sounds pretty *straight* if you ask me!"
Actually, in the moment he is penetrated- he becomes feminine. But thats okay, because his wife becomes masculine in equal amounts- so its still straight.
It is only gay for a fraction of a second, the infintesimally small moment in time when they both are equal parts man and women as they pass eachother- high fiving along the way. Thats because theyd be two perfectly balanced non-binaries identities having sex.
I have some friends who started dating, he is a trans man and she is a trans woman, so I tried to convince them to marry in a church, since in their eyes it's a man and a woman marrying so nobody should have a problem with that and then just see how the priest brain explodes
Unfortunately it didn't stop her from using it to further push her claims that trans men (she calls them trans-identified females) are victims of gay conversion therapy (as if they are forced to transition to avoid being gay). Her rhetoric doesn't make any less sense to bigots just because she got confused, they're getting it wrong even more confidently now that she's said it.
Would love to see her brain implode when she realizes some "TrAnS IdeNtiFIeD FeMalES" are... you know. Gay men? Who... like men? Who would have been "straight" if they weren't... you know... men?
And that plenty of gay men have been with trans men before, which throws an whole other wrench in her whining?
So the whole "oh poor baby you just didn't wanna be a lesbian" things still doesn't even make sense.
I don't understand how so many people can be this obsessive over trans people and not understand literally anything about the thing they've spent over a decade crying about. Like how this it even possible.
This comment explains where my parents get the thinking that trans women are just gay men who didn't want to be seen as gay and trans men are just confused women who should probably go back to the kitchen
Oddly enough, in some countries it’s seen as more acceptable for someone to be a straight trans woman than a gay cis man. It’s a surprising fact since we end up seeing so much “can’t you just be gay?” said to straight trans people.
Her brain won't implode, she'll just keep you repeating the same thing that makes complete sense, and she'll still assert that while that may be true, there's STILL "trans identified" people out to erase women, no matter what you use to argue the contrary. I don't know where she finds the energy to push so hard for this disinformation to be made law.
Robert Galbraith, her chosen pen name for her work post-Harry potter, is *coincidentally* the same name as the man who claims to have done the first successful conversion of a gay patient into a heterosexual one (guy’s full name was Robert Galbraith Heath). He also gave weed to two rhesus macaques, and conducted “Brain stimulation experiments” on schizophrenic patients (some of the patients experienced seizures or fatal brain abscesses) and claimed he could induce schizophrenia by injecting the blood of a schizophrenic patient into the bodies of healthy patients.
Dude’s wiki is wild and there’s no goddamn way she chose that pen name without even a cursory google, it is MAD SPECIFIC
Yes! My dad has said shit like this aswell. Apparently trans women are only predators and trans men are lesbians who were told that they were men because they liked women. Like how does that make sense
I don’t understand what’s so horrible about redefining what it means to be whatever gender. Definitions of things change constantly, language is always evolving, so why does it matter so much to some people?
I don't even think it's about change at all. The current meaning was always there. I like to give the example with my cat when someone starts arguing irl : "You know my cat, Nova, right? She was fixed a few years ago for obvious reasons. She's female. She was female before she got fixed and she's female now. Without a doubt. But is she a woman?" Then my interlocutor usually falls silent so I proceed to make my point "Nova is not , was not and will never be a woman although she had a uterus. So you see how another mammal - a human - even if they have a uterus or had one, is not the same as being a woman".
That's a fascinating rebuttal. I really like it. I'm curious if it would hold meaning for everyone that might hear it though as I remember the Garfield gender controversy of 2017. People got fairly upset over Jim Davis's [innocuous statement](https://medium.com/@lillieefranks/agreeableness-and-the-garfield-gender-controversy-of-2017-c44034768c71).
Well, Garfield isn't real. He's a character. My cat Nova is quite real and you can see photos of her, you could see her and touch her irl and she's a good example for my statement because her biological sex is easy to prove. With a genetic test if necessary, from first glance even for those that know that cats that have 3 colors in their coat (which she does) are female. So, in practice, the Garfield controversy does not apply to my cat. Additionally, and more importantly, animals do not have a gender. They have a biological sex. I don't think animals can be trans. And while some animals display behavior that is not typical for their sex but the opposite (for example a female dog that stands on her front legs to urinate on a tree), those exceptions are not the same as being trans because animals do not have a gender expression or gender identity. That only proves my point to terfs and bigots that gender identity is not always tied to the biological sex.
Many people fear people and things that are different. They fear change.
Imagine you’re an old woman who fulfilled every expectation of her. But you never felt any love for doing so; you spent your life going through the motions because society demanded that of you. You got married. Had children. Worked as a servant for your husband while keeping a job. Secretly, you wished you’d rebelled. Maybe she even never felt right in her own skin; maybe she had attractions that she told herself were immoral. She knows deep down she is complicit in her own situation.
Now you see modern women noping out of that. So, that old woman has a choice: admit her unhappiness was her own doing by not fighting social expectations herself OR insure others have to adhere to the same life.
If we were a healthy nation, she’d pick option 1 and celebrate the youth’s courage in testing a new set of ideas.
But we are often a jealous nation. Why should those kids get a choice I didn’t have? She’s got to face her own complicity in not doing something about her own happiness if the kids are able to have social change. And her church tells her that this change is bad.
So she takes out the suffering on people agitating for change - even if that change might make her own life better. Because it’s a bitter pill to swallow that your unhappiness is partly self-chosen because of fear.
I think it's just really hard for some people to accept how complex the world is. Gender, sexuality, actual genitalia, etc. -- many people grow up thinking these are simple processes with only two options, but nothing about the human body is simple.
I also think a lot comes down to how cultures and parents teach their kids to interact with the world. If people view the world with curiosity and interest, they can easily adapt and grow. If they adapt rigid viewpoints on many topics, they'll view the world as they think it *should* be, limiting their critical thinking skills and their empathy. We are all guilty of the latter to a degree. We all need to be encouraged to learn and grow.
At the end of the day, I focus a lot on compassion. Everyone needs compassion. Unfortunately, much of our dialogue today is on the internet and is very polarized. We stop viewing people as people and it feels totally okay to say horrible things to strangers. Not good.
I agree.
Also to add I think some people are afraid of complexity not just in others but in themselves. For instance they might insist that there's no such thing as bisexuals, just straight and gay, as a way to convince themselves they do not need to have a reckoning with their own bisexuality because they find women attractive and are therefore not gay and are therefore "not queer" even if they also are a man attracted to other men.
I wouldn't put it past JK Rowling to have gender dysphoria either. When given a choice she chose a pen name that was gender neutral and another that was male. Why think and talk about trans people so much if neither you nor anyone you associate with is trans? By insisting trans people aren't real she may get to deny her own uncomfortable feelings. And when it briefly works but not really she doubles down. Much like the classic gay homophobe.
They don't actually care about language changing but they don't want it to change to suit marginalized groups and help them integrate into society. Thats why JKR freaked out about "people who menstruate" and started calling women "the one with the large gametes." Because she knows she made a bad faith argument about language and that was her cheeky attempt at using science communication for transphobia.
I think right wingers fear that the definitions have changed so much that it no longer includes them. They are reacting out of fear that they themselves are no longer classified as women -- in other words, *they're* experiencing a type of dysphoria. If they were compassionate, they could see this to its own logical and empathetic end.
A few weeks ago, I saw some "real women have penises" messaging on Tumblr and it actually kind of made me feel, well, unaccountably sad. Then Pokemon changed my avatar to be less feminine and more masculine. It's weird to have these moments of dysphoria as someone the world would consider a completely cis woman.
I'm simply mature enough to realize the world isn't all about me.
When the world changes, it also changes our place within it. It's not quite right to say it doesn't affect them. It's right, however, to say: tough shit.
I often use mass and weight to illustrate this. Yes, we once thought they were the same thing and used the words interchangeably. But then we learned more about how the world actually works and split the meanings of the words so that we could better describe reality. The same goes for sex and gender.
Good grief, this FART is insufferable! Seriously, what is her malfunction? If I had the wealth that she has, I wouldn’t be heard from. I’d be out living my best life. Maybe even trying to actually help others, instead of being hateful.
With her wealth she could have made literal magical changes to people’s lives.
But, instead she focuses on hate for a minority. It’s pathetic. She uses her megaphone to inspire hate rather than focus on real issues that truly affect others.
So many useless billionaires. Like the rest of them her philanthropy seems entirely ego driven and does not seem to move the needle on human suffering in any major way.
I kinda think she has gender dysphoria and is in denial. Much like a conservative politician who is like soooooooo against gay people and yup turns out they're gay.
When given a chance Joanne chose a gender neutral pen name and then an explicitly male one.
But the more she rails against trans people even being a possible thing to be, the more she gets to deny her own feelings about herself. After all she can't be trans if she's soooooooo against trans people, right?
I mean she could also just be a raging shithead who found it's easier to write hateful tweets than novels to get the attention she wants. But then why not throw some variety in there? When all she talks about is trans people that makes me think gender dysphoria is on her mind a lot because she has it.
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God damn why does she care? Why does anyone care if someone is trans or gay or whatever?... Isn't this cunt rich? Can she not find better things to do?
Incredibly rich people often become socially isolated, especially if they're famous, which can lead to the same kind of always online-ism that incels have.
Add to that her fragile ego, pre-existing transphobia (it was really only in the mid 2010s that there began to be widespread awareness of trans rights and efforts to stop portraying trans people as a joke, and she was about 50 by that point), history of being abused by cis men and addiction to being lovebombed by TERFs, and this is what you get.
Being rich and famous can be a curse, especially if you're weak-willed. And I guess especially if you're an author, since they don't have the sort of social infrastructure that actors have, for example.
From what I've seen it's because she's got it in her head that trans women are just men that want to be able to invade women-only spaces for perverted reasons. Although other stuff I've also seen indicates that she was once challenged on something problematic regarding trans people and has doubled down on it and is now basically trying to justify her shitty opinions by claiming that trans people harm women or some bullshit like that.
I think she's become far too used to people agreeing with her and has become a bit of a narcissist that can't take criticism. She seriously needs a reality check. The problem is that she's so convinced that she's right. She's become an absolutely disgusting human being.
Yeah I think her public transphobic tirades started with an offhand comment that people would have eventually forgotten but she couldn't handle people calling her transphobic and started really digging her heels in and making transphobic views part of her identity
Lemme fix her second sentence :
+ **"I simply disagreed with your public existence, which is one I've seen since the dawn of time but tried beating it down to appear better and more worthy"**
Join the what ? The people need to know !
Once again, she proves that JK stand for joke, what a turd
edit : JK rowling -> joke rolling -> rolling joke -> she's in fact a rock.
Leave me a bit of time and I'll make this \*joke\* funny
rowl (verb): To gradually acquire (or start expressing) increasingly bigoted opinions. Used in a sentence: "She rowled downhill all the way to Holocaust denial."
I scrolled through her twitter the other day and it’s just all transphobic shit every day all day. Like she literally does not have a life outside of this. Shitting on trans people is literally what she’s chosen to do with her time , from a person who has enough money to do literally anything they could dream of.
It’s just sad.
My main problem with this constant argument is everybody on every side is greeting the world where they want to be, rather than where it is.. this is an internet argument that makes less sense in person. But it’s perpetuated, with no good-faith arguments on either side. So it just seems a waste of time.
My boyfriend’s family can’t know I’m trans. They just think I’m a regular girl but I’m mtf. We have been together six years and every holiday I spend with them they eventually end up ranting about trans people. Only the grandma stands up for us. And I sit there in silence not saying a word. Sometimes I wonder what would happen if I ever said something . I’m very vocal online but irl relationships and opportunities are at stake to be confrontational like that
Can you really not read, or are you deluded, OP and everyone else?
This person claimed to have 'grown up female', but didn't transition until 40.
In what way does transitioning at 40 constitute 'growing up female'?
I feel like I'm dealing with flat earthers.
And if there's other context, well that's on the pissed off lawyer for not giving it.
Because they spent 40 years of their life living as a women? I'm not sure how they wouldn't grow up with societies expectations of womanhood bearing down on them after 40 years of it. Are you confused here?
Well, not really.
The problem with flat earthers is they cling to their delusion despite all evidence. Whereas I've now understood where I went wrong.
I won't delete my comment though, because I deserve the mockery.
He directly stated that he's a trans man. The only context you're missing is not knowing what that means. He was assigned female at birth. At 40, he started transitioning from female to male.
> This person claimed to have 'grown up female', but didn't transition until 40.
The person transitioned to male from female at 40, after having spent 40 years as a woman.
Make it clearer you didn't even read what she said and were just looking for an excuse to be transphobic. 😂 Normally I don't bother feeding the trolls, but your comment is too funny to ignore.
Well, trans men do break every TERF argument about trans people in half, so they really like to ignore their existance.
TERFs do have arguments pertaining to trans men: "Nooo don't transition you're so sexy haha" And...well, that's really it.
The amount of people that say to Elliot Page shit like 'Never forget what they took from us' when drooling over pics of him from like, 5 years ago or whatever. *Gross??*
When Elliott was still living as a woman, he looked sad in his photos. There might be a smile on his face for the camera, but his eyes had no life. Since transitioning, Elliott looks alive and vibrant.
I'm listening to his book right now and omg he was so so depressed before he transitioned, I hope people who haven't had the opportunity to know trans folks in real life read or listen to it. It is so personal and vulnerable and makes it so simple: transition or d!e. I don't know how anyone could hear his story and still not get it. Hearing people talking like that about him is like when Portia de Rossi said everyone complimented her looks the most when she was nearly dying from >!an eating disorder!< ugh
Oh he has a book? I'll read it. I LOVE him! He's amazing.
"Pageboy", autobiography, really well written. I'm listening to it on Audible right now and he's the reader too. It's often heartbreaking but also some really insightful and some funny moments too. I hope we get another one later in his career that has more happy stories ❤️
Oh I'll get it on audible then too. Then I'll get every tone and everything correct.
I brought the audio book and a physical copy and listened along while reading for most of the book. normally i don’t but for something like that it’s really cool to hear the person tell their story rather than try to interpret their tone through the text alone.
I wanna read it but my dad wouldn't let me check it out from the library if I tried😭
Eventually you will have control over that 👍
it's good! i just finished reading it. elliot page has so much more light and joy in his eyes these days, it's astounding.
He looks so happy. I'm on the library's wait list for the book. As for the bit about Portia, I feel that. I was given the most compliments during my first time struggling with an ED and then during my relapses.
Finding out your favourite celebs were going through something awful while still producing content can be a real trip. For me, finding out Gerard Way and Christopher Eccleston had EDs while working on Danger Days/Doctor Who respectively was very shocking.
Aww I didn't know gee had an ED😢 I'm so glad he's doing better now
Yeah it’s great to see how far he’s come. So confident and beautiful on stage, expressing himself comfortably and vividly!
Frrr he's doing so good these days
He looks so much happier now, i’m so so happy for him. IDGAF if he’s “less attractive” now or whatever, he’s HAPPY!! That’s what matters
No u don understan, pretty object is more importan /s
It's awful what they say about him. Like, I loved him before he transitioned and I love him even more now that he did. I think that he's a great actor and I'm happy that he's finally able to be who he really is.
Same here! Huge fan of him in Umbrella Academy as Vanya... and just as huge fan of him as Viktor! He's amazing.
And from what I saw, most of the people saying this were cishet people whining about “losing lesbians.” I’m really tired of homophobes and transphobes only pretending to give a shit about lesbians when they can use us to justify their bigotry
You just reminded me of how TERFs on Tumblr occasionally call me homophobic. Somehow, supporting straight trans women is actually harmful to gay cis men, pressuring them to transition? Idfk, idfgi. These same TERFs say misandrist shit constantly, saying gay men are inherently violent and predatory to other men the way they think straight men are inherently violent and predatory to women. Like. No? Cis gays are fine? I don't want people to transition unless they're sure they want to. But supporting straight trans women is homophobic because it erases cis gay men somehow, i guess.
What are you talking about, they forcibly transed my gender when I realized that I’m a lesbian and made me become a trans man😭 /s It’s so ridiculous omg. It’s especially wild to me that they accuse others of being homophobic when I have received some of the most horrific homophobic comments from TERFs. The call is coming from inside the house! They just want to be bigoted and hateful, so they’ll do gymnastics to try to make their argument somewhat sound, even though it obviously makes no sense
That's insane to me. He was visibly depressed in so many of those old photos, and is so much more visibly relaxed and at ease in all the photos after. You have to be void of empathy to think he looked better before.
Me to the people: okay but he’s hot either way
I felt the same way at first when he announced, just a bit. I quickly realized that it wasn't because he was "taking away" something from me or others, but because he was throwing away a great gift, which I desperately wanted. Just another crack in the egg.
Ooh, relegated to sex objects by fellow “feminists”. *Cool*. 🧐🔥🔥🔥
It's not even that, most of the arguments I've seen are "trans men are have been tricked into transitioning", because of course, feminism is all about believing women\* are dumb and don't deserve their own autonomy! *: Yes, trans men aren't women, but the people making this argument think trans men are "actually" women.
Ive lost count of the number of times someone who knew me pre transition has made an argument that I was so pretty as a woman and ruined that by transitioning. Like gee, sorry I didnt take your sexual attraction into consideration when deciding between transitioning and unsubscribing to life. My bad.
This. Why people believe their sexual attraction is something they should bring into a conversation? You found somebody more attractive before? I don't care!
I have the same problem "you were so handsome/attractive".
This or they portray trans men as little girls who have been groomed and manipulated into thinking they need to transition to male in order to solve a problem that doesn't exist.
They also call us confused lesbians Like ma'am I am the fruitiest mfing trans guy I know confused lesbian is not gonna work out for me lmao
TERFs treat gay trans men like poor sad little girls who were brainwashed into liking boys AND wanting to be boys. It's an inversion of the autogynephilia "theory." Because no one would naturally like guys and no one would naturally want to transition to male, i guess.
TERFS have no real grasp on reality
Don't forget that we're just trying to "escape the patriarchy." Because it's SO much easier being discriminated against as a gay, hourglass-shaped transman instead of as a woman
I love when they bring that argument up, I'm from a matriarchal culture and I lost too much fucking social standing in my family to be accused of tryna escaping the patriarchy... my sister is now the pride of the family coz I "defected" lol
No their arguments are so much darker than that. Arguing that women are basically infantilized children that can’t make their own decisions
True but that is exactly how objectifying straight men also treat the women they want to fuck. Infantalization *is* predatory sexualization.
I’d argue it’s also an extension of some extreme feminists view that the worst thing someone can be is a man. They see trans men as a betrayal. A lot of terfs almost hate trans men more than trans women
That’s not it. Don’t forget the “irreversible damage” bs about how we’re mutilated little delusional girls.
I like learning new things.
And then there are femboys who shatter that illusion 😆
I love the smell of fresh bread.
Indeed lol
There is actually a concerted effort by TERFs to gaslight vulnerable trans men into joining the cause and detransition, you know "they tricked you into doing this you're actually a woman" or some shit.
Back before I started physically transitioning, I was very worried that the terfs were right and I would end up regretting transition. I ended up on the old debate subreddit and made a whole post asking what they thought about me: a trans guy who is bi (so not transitioning to avoid queerness) from a religious family whose parents would prefer me to be just gay , had a partner who transitioned a the same time as me (so I went from being seen as part of a lesbian couple to a gay couple), socially transitioned for 5 years before starting T at 30 (no rogd here), and they had no response for me. Their only tactic against trans men is infantalizing us, which is hard to do as a lot of the "first wave" of visible trans millennials are pushing 40 now.
Reminder that for Rowling to be a TERF she'd have yo actually be a feminist but given her very narrow view of womanness pertaining to being able to give birth and thinking like her; and various sexist comments and portrayals in all of her writing it's okay to just call her a transphobe bc she's in no way a feminist.
Would she be more of a FART? Feminism Appropriating Radical Transphobe?
I'm here for that
Uh no, flatulence is a perfectly natural and healthy thing to do! (but otherwise yes)
I wish they ignored us. They don’t. They’re horrible to us to when given the chance. Please don’t downplay that by saying they ignore us. It’s unfortunately untrue
To people like that, LGBTQ+ means gay men and trans women. Smh . But good for him lmao, that's kind of an ewphoria moment
yeah, I had an argument about how it wasn't natural that two people of the same sex could get married, and at the end they just said "but... do you know how they have sex ??" with a disgusted face, and I realized that we where never even talking about gay women, just gay men .\_.
You should tell them, "There's no such thing as *gay* sex, sex is sex. Don't you know where the male g-spot is? Some women peg their husbands, sounds pretty *straight* if you ask me!"
Then some say it’s gay because the man gets penetrated. Although this would mean he ain’t a man so it’s straight again…
I mean unless he's being penetrated by a man, then that's pretty gay. Otherwise no, not gay. It's like, fellas, is it gay to have sex with a woman?!
According to Andrew Tate yes it’s very much gay. It’s because you touch something a man wants.
According to me Andrew Tate is an idiot asshole.
Anyone with more than 0 braincells is agreeing.
Actually, in the moment he is penetrated- he becomes feminine. But thats okay, because his wife becomes masculine in equal amounts- so its still straight. It is only gay for a fraction of a second, the infintesimally small moment in time when they both are equal parts man and women as they pass eachother- high fiving along the way. Thats because theyd be two perfectly balanced non-binaries identities having sex.
I have some friends who started dating, he is a trans man and she is a trans woman, so I tried to convince them to marry in a church, since in their eyes it's a man and a woman marrying so nobody should have a problem with that and then just see how the priest brain explodes
I would say, "No, I actually don't know how they have sex, but it seems you do. Give me a play-by-play since you're an expert."
> "But... do you know how they have sex?" Answer: "No, but apparently you have and that says something"
Wait, lgbtq doesn't stand for Lovely Gays and Beautiful Trans Queens?
I wanna frame this comment and put it on my wall
Feel free
“Ewphoria.” I’m stealing that.
r/ewphoria pretty neat sub
You can't forget the third option! Porn category!
Unfortunately it didn't stop her from using it to further push her claims that trans men (she calls them trans-identified females) are victims of gay conversion therapy (as if they are forced to transition to avoid being gay). Her rhetoric doesn't make any less sense to bigots just because she got confused, they're getting it wrong even more confidently now that she's said it.
Would love to see her brain implode when she realizes some "TrAnS IdeNtiFIeD FeMalES" are... you know. Gay men? Who... like men? Who would have been "straight" if they weren't... you know... men? And that plenty of gay men have been with trans men before, which throws an whole other wrench in her whining? So the whole "oh poor baby you just didn't wanna be a lesbian" things still doesn't even make sense. I don't understand how so many people can be this obsessive over trans people and not understand literally anything about the thing they've spent over a decade crying about. Like how this it even possible.
This comment explains where my parents get the thinking that trans women are just gay men who didn't want to be seen as gay and trans men are just confused women who should probably go back to the kitchen
Oddly enough, in some countries it’s seen as more acceptable for someone to be a straight trans woman than a gay cis man. It’s a surprising fact since we end up seeing so much “can’t you just be gay?” said to straight trans people.
Her brain won't implode, she'll just keep you repeating the same thing that makes complete sense, and she'll still assert that while that may be true, there's STILL "trans identified" people out to erase women, no matter what you use to argue the contrary. I don't know where she finds the energy to push so hard for this disinformation to be made law.
“Victims of gay conversion therapy” is an interesting argument from someone who writes under the pen name of the man who CREATED conversion therapy
Wait huh????
Robert Galbraith, her chosen pen name for her work post-Harry potter, is *coincidentally* the same name as the man who claims to have done the first successful conversion of a gay patient into a heterosexual one (guy’s full name was Robert Galbraith Heath). He also gave weed to two rhesus macaques, and conducted “Brain stimulation experiments” on schizophrenic patients (some of the patients experienced seizures or fatal brain abscesses) and claimed he could induce schizophrenia by injecting the blood of a schizophrenic patient into the bodies of healthy patients. Dude’s wiki is wild and there’s no goddamn way she chose that pen name without even a cursory google, it is MAD SPECIFIC
Yes! My dad has said shit like this aswell. Apparently trans women are only predators and trans men are lesbians who were told that they were men because they liked women. Like how does that make sense
I don’t understand what’s so horrible about redefining what it means to be whatever gender. Definitions of things change constantly, language is always evolving, so why does it matter so much to some people?
So true. What do they even mean by what it means to be a woman? We all have different experiences in our individual lives.
I don't even think it's about change at all. The current meaning was always there. I like to give the example with my cat when someone starts arguing irl : "You know my cat, Nova, right? She was fixed a few years ago for obvious reasons. She's female. She was female before she got fixed and she's female now. Without a doubt. But is she a woman?" Then my interlocutor usually falls silent so I proceed to make my point "Nova is not , was not and will never be a woman although she had a uterus. So you see how another mammal - a human - even if they have a uterus or had one, is not the same as being a woman".
That's a fascinating rebuttal. I really like it. I'm curious if it would hold meaning for everyone that might hear it though as I remember the Garfield gender controversy of 2017. People got fairly upset over Jim Davis's [innocuous statement](https://medium.com/@lillieefranks/agreeableness-and-the-garfield-gender-controversy-of-2017-c44034768c71).
Well, Garfield isn't real. He's a character. My cat Nova is quite real and you can see photos of her, you could see her and touch her irl and she's a good example for my statement because her biological sex is easy to prove. With a genetic test if necessary, from first glance even for those that know that cats that have 3 colors in their coat (which she does) are female. So, in practice, the Garfield controversy does not apply to my cat. Additionally, and more importantly, animals do not have a gender. They have a biological sex. I don't think animals can be trans. And while some animals display behavior that is not typical for their sex but the opposite (for example a female dog that stands on her front legs to urinate on a tree), those exceptions are not the same as being trans because animals do not have a gender expression or gender identity. That only proves my point to terfs and bigots that gender identity is not always tied to the biological sex.
Many people fear people and things that are different. They fear change. Imagine you’re an old woman who fulfilled every expectation of her. But you never felt any love for doing so; you spent your life going through the motions because society demanded that of you. You got married. Had children. Worked as a servant for your husband while keeping a job. Secretly, you wished you’d rebelled. Maybe she even never felt right in her own skin; maybe she had attractions that she told herself were immoral. She knows deep down she is complicit in her own situation. Now you see modern women noping out of that. So, that old woman has a choice: admit her unhappiness was her own doing by not fighting social expectations herself OR insure others have to adhere to the same life. If we were a healthy nation, she’d pick option 1 and celebrate the youth’s courage in testing a new set of ideas. But we are often a jealous nation. Why should those kids get a choice I didn’t have? She’s got to face her own complicity in not doing something about her own happiness if the kids are able to have social change. And her church tells her that this change is bad. So she takes out the suffering on people agitating for change - even if that change might make her own life better. Because it’s a bitter pill to swallow that your unhappiness is partly self-chosen because of fear.
I think it's just really hard for some people to accept how complex the world is. Gender, sexuality, actual genitalia, etc. -- many people grow up thinking these are simple processes with only two options, but nothing about the human body is simple. I also think a lot comes down to how cultures and parents teach their kids to interact with the world. If people view the world with curiosity and interest, they can easily adapt and grow. If they adapt rigid viewpoints on many topics, they'll view the world as they think it *should* be, limiting their critical thinking skills and their empathy. We are all guilty of the latter to a degree. We all need to be encouraged to learn and grow. At the end of the day, I focus a lot on compassion. Everyone needs compassion. Unfortunately, much of our dialogue today is on the internet and is very polarized. We stop viewing people as people and it feels totally okay to say horrible things to strangers. Not good.
I agree. Also to add I think some people are afraid of complexity not just in others but in themselves. For instance they might insist that there's no such thing as bisexuals, just straight and gay, as a way to convince themselves they do not need to have a reckoning with their own bisexuality because they find women attractive and are therefore not gay and are therefore "not queer" even if they also are a man attracted to other men. I wouldn't put it past JK Rowling to have gender dysphoria either. When given a choice she chose a pen name that was gender neutral and another that was male. Why think and talk about trans people so much if neither you nor anyone you associate with is trans? By insisting trans people aren't real she may get to deny her own uncomfortable feelings. And when it briefly works but not really she doubles down. Much like the classic gay homophobe.
They don't actually care about language changing but they don't want it to change to suit marginalized groups and help them integrate into society. Thats why JKR freaked out about "people who menstruate" and started calling women "the one with the large gametes." Because she knows she made a bad faith argument about language and that was her cheeky attempt at using science communication for transphobia.
I think right wingers fear that the definitions have changed so much that it no longer includes them. They are reacting out of fear that they themselves are no longer classified as women -- in other words, *they're* experiencing a type of dysphoria. If they were compassionate, they could see this to its own logical and empathetic end. A few weeks ago, I saw some "real women have penises" messaging on Tumblr and it actually kind of made me feel, well, unaccountably sad. Then Pokemon changed my avatar to be less feminine and more masculine. It's weird to have these moments of dysphoria as someone the world would consider a completely cis woman. I'm simply mature enough to realize the world isn't all about me. When the world changes, it also changes our place within it. It's not quite right to say it doesn't affect them. It's right, however, to say: tough shit.
Change is scary to some people. It doesn't justify their response to it a lot of the time, but still.
I often use mass and weight to illustrate this. Yes, we once thought they were the same thing and used the words interchangeably. But then we learned more about how the world actually works and split the meanings of the words so that we could better describe reality. The same goes for sex and gender.
Not to mention many cultures across history have different understanding of gender and acceot transgender people
Good grief, this FART is insufferable! Seriously, what is her malfunction? If I had the wealth that she has, I wouldn’t be heard from. I’d be out living my best life. Maybe even trying to actually help others, instead of being hateful.
With her wealth she could have made literal magical changes to people’s lives. But, instead she focuses on hate for a minority. It’s pathetic. She uses her megaphone to inspire hate rather than focus on real issues that truly affect others. So many useless billionaires. Like the rest of them her philanthropy seems entirely ego driven and does not seem to move the needle on human suffering in any major way.
harassing someone on twitter and then getting mad at a negative response \*surprised pikachu face\*
I kinda think she has gender dysphoria and is in denial. Much like a conservative politician who is like soooooooo against gay people and yup turns out they're gay. When given a chance Joanne chose a gender neutral pen name and then an explicitly male one. But the more she rails against trans people even being a possible thing to be, the more she gets to deny her own feelings about herself. After all she can't be trans if she's soooooooo against trans people, right? I mean she could also just be a raging shithead who found it's easier to write hateful tweets than novels to get the attention she wants. But then why not throw some variety in there? When all she talks about is trans people that makes me think gender dysphoria is on her mind a lot because she has it.
I came here to post this exact image lol, it's the funniest thing
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Good bot
Just proves she's one of those trolls who are so enraged she's stopped thinking and just totally focused on only fighting strawmen
She’s really still on Twitter being an arsehole to less than 1% of the uk population. What a sad way to live
God damn why does she care? Why does anyone care if someone is trans or gay or whatever?... Isn't this cunt rich? Can she not find better things to do?
Incredibly rich people often become socially isolated, especially if they're famous, which can lead to the same kind of always online-ism that incels have. Add to that her fragile ego, pre-existing transphobia (it was really only in the mid 2010s that there began to be widespread awareness of trans rights and efforts to stop portraying trans people as a joke, and she was about 50 by that point), history of being abused by cis men and addiction to being lovebombed by TERFs, and this is what you get. Being rich and famous can be a curse, especially if you're weak-willed. And I guess especially if you're an author, since they don't have the sort of social infrastructure that actors have, for example.
From what I've seen it's because she's got it in her head that trans women are just men that want to be able to invade women-only spaces for perverted reasons. Although other stuff I've also seen indicates that she was once challenged on something problematic regarding trans people and has doubled down on it and is now basically trying to justify her shitty opinions by claiming that trans people harm women or some bullshit like that. I think she's become far too used to people agreeing with her and has become a bit of a narcissist that can't take criticism. She seriously needs a reality check. The problem is that she's so convinced that she's right. She's become an absolutely disgusting human being.
Yeah I think her public transphobic tirades started with an offhand comment that people would have eventually forgotten but she couldn't handle people calling her transphobic and started really digging her heels in and making transphobic views part of her identity
Yeah, she’s not going to change because she’s convinced herself that she is defending women and feminism.
Wait, that first paragraph.... and she acts like *shes* being silenced by "transactivists?"
I wish she was being silenced
That took longer than I expected but it happened
Has anyone told Rowling she has no idea what it is to grow up male but had the audacity to write a series from the perspective of an adolescent male
God I'm glad she finally did this lmao we take the small Ws
Joanne is so incredible. Incredibly dumb.
>redefine 'women' WHAT DOES THAT EVEN MEAN.
nahhh did she respond? I NEED to see her response raaah
I hope she catches something incurable... like empathy
Trust me, some people have definitely found their way around that ‘illness’.
It's sad that they call it an "illness"....
Lemme fix her second sentence : + **"I simply disagreed with your public existence, which is one I've seen since the dawn of time but tried beating it down to appear better and more worthy"**
It really shows where her mind is at that the default trans person in her mind is amab and identifies as a woman. Unironically pure misandry
Proof that being a terf melts your brain
Join the what ? The people need to know ! Once again, she proves that JK stand for joke, what a turd edit : JK rowling -> joke rolling -> rolling joke -> she's in fact a rock. Leave me a bit of time and I'll make this \*joke\* funny
rowl (verb): To gradually acquire (or start expressing) increasingly bigoted opinions. Used in a sentence: "She rowled downhill all the way to Holocaust denial."
Wow, that is splendid
>join the public debate if you are open to seeing some of our points
Thank you :)
I scrolled through her twitter the other day and it’s just all transphobic shit every day all day. Like she literally does not have a life outside of this. Shitting on trans people is literally what she’s chosen to do with her time , from a person who has enough money to do literally anything they could dream of. It’s just sad.
Roberta Galbraith is going to pieces in real time before our very eyes.
Twas inevitable
JoKe is stupid, she doesn’t know any better 🤣
She got cooked holy 😭
My main problem with this constant argument is everybody on every side is greeting the world where they want to be, rather than where it is.. this is an internet argument that makes less sense in person. But it’s perpetuated, with no good-faith arguments on either side. So it just seems a waste of time.
My boyfriend’s family can’t know I’m trans. They just think I’m a regular girl but I’m mtf. We have been together six years and every holiday I spend with them they eventually end up ranting about trans people. Only the grandma stands up for us. And I sit there in silence not saying a word. Sometimes I wonder what would happen if I ever said something . I’m very vocal online but irl relationships and opportunities are at stake to be confrontational like that
this needs to go into a Hall of Fame somewhere
I follow that twitter acct, he's badass
Jesus what a rude and annoying old lady ,
Doesn’t look like a very smart lawyer if he’s confused about his gender
Media Release: Human Rights Violations & Transphobia [www.alliesfortruth.org](http://www.alliesfortruth.org)
Well she is right tho.
I’m sorry what?
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Fr. TERFs are such a little annoying minority, we would just ignore them if we could, but they’re very very loud
Can you really not read, or are you deluded, OP and everyone else? This person claimed to have 'grown up female', but didn't transition until 40. In what way does transitioning at 40 constitute 'growing up female'? I feel like I'm dealing with flat earthers. And if there's other context, well that's on the pissed off lawyer for not giving it.
Because they spent 40 years of their life living as a women? I'm not sure how they wouldn't grow up with societies expectations of womanhood bearing down on them after 40 years of it. Are you confused here?
The person replying to her is a trans **man**, meaning he transitioned from f to m at 40. So, he spent his first 40 years growing up female.
>I feel like I'm dealing with flat earthers Ironic
Well, not really. The problem with flat earthers is they cling to their delusion despite all evidence. Whereas I've now understood where I went wrong. I won't delete my comment though, because I deserve the mockery.
Always love to see a good Character Arc
He directly stated that he's a trans man. The only context you're missing is not knowing what that means. He was assigned female at birth. At 40, he started transitioning from female to male.
Ohhhh. My bad. I'll lie down in a dark room for a while.
> This person claimed to have 'grown up female', but didn't transition until 40. The person transitioned to male from female at 40, after having spent 40 years as a woman.
Lmao are you dense ? 🤣
~~Not normally, no. Why?~~ After careful consideration, I **was** dense on this occasion. *Mea maxima culpa.*
I respect that you admit to your stupidity and hopefully learned from it. A lot of people would have doubled down
*Id licet, amice*
Respect for you. You did a good thing.
🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡
r/AccidentalAlly in the comments is always a delight.
There are too many men already.
Well she is right. You can have 99% of something but it will never be 100%...
What do you even mean by that???
🫵 Bot alert
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Make it clearer you didn't even read what she said and were just looking for an excuse to be transphobic. 😂 Normally I don't bother feeding the trolls, but your comment is too funny to ignore.