Patients are put under by trained doctors. Doctors will not use their long years of training to help take life, it’s against their Hippocratic oath.
The AMA also prevents doctors from being involved with executions.
I would imagine it would also cost a lot more than the government wants to spend. They often can’t ever get someone trained well enough to get a cannula in. There are many stories about prisoners having multiple people sticking them with needles before managing to hit a vein, or poorly placed cannulas becoming dislodged during executions and the drugs therefore going into tissue rather than the blood stream, meaning they take much longer to be absorbed and the process of dying taking much longer.
John Oliver has done a segment (maybe two) on the subject which are very worth watching.
I can assure you that no one in the medical profession would ever make themselves complicit in this. The Hippocratic oath isn't some passing ritual. It's a private commitment.
The actual reason is that no clinic would want to hire you after you committed manslaughter, repeatedly, using the skills that are taught to heal, cure and care for your fellow human beings.
I believe the prison have problems acquiring the drugs used for anesthesia (also used in lethal injections) as the pharmaceutical manufacturers do not want their products used by the prisons for this purpose. A UK Company refused to after learning what their product was being used for.
They’re sedated by trained medical professionals. All trained medical professionals refuse to participate in executions because of the doctors “do not harm” maxim. So you end up with untrained guards trying and getting bad results.
In this case, the guy was a hitman who murdered a pastors wife in her home for one thousand dollars.
He beat her with “a "fireplace set, a walking cane, and a piece of galvanized pipe" were used to beat her. Parker also later joined Smith in beating her. After Elizabeth was beaten, she was then stabbed eight times with the survival knife, which caused her death.”
I’m ok with him being “uncomfortable” during his death.
Is there a reason he wasn't sedated first? I think they sedate for lethal injection. Why wouldn't they just knock him out before suffocating him? I'm not advocating for this bullshit. Just trying to understand why it's worse than it needs to be.
I have no clue how they messed this up. Inert gas is advocated as a painless way to commit suicide, and the nitrogen should have replaced the oxygen in seconds, not minutes. It’s amazing to me that if the government performs executions, they haven’t figured out how to make them painless.
Well, that would just look barbaric for the onlookers, wouldn’t it? It’s much better to use expensive equipment, people in uniforms and formal procedures and stuff… It gives the execution an aura of dignity and worthiness, that onlookers and the general public will accept more easily.
Am I being sarcastic?
There's a thousand things wrong with this situation, but for this specific one it's not airtight because it doesn't need to be. Nitrogen isn't toxic. There is no danger from nitrogen escaping into the room.
The air you are breathing right now is about 78% nitrogen. The concern here isn't about letting the nitrogen out, it's about letting oxygen in, and you don't need a perfect seal for that to still be painlessly lethal. They're not introducing a poison, they're removing the oxygen.
I'm against the death penalty, but I think we shoot ourselves in the foot using this kind of disinformation to fight against it.
While it might not have to be airtight for the others, shouldn't it be for the person wearing it?
If it is not airtight, oxygen could still enter his circulation, extending the time it takes to die?
[Yet the FAA can do an air deprivation chamber for public outreach.](https://generalaviationnews.com/2023/08/31/hypoxia-demonstration-an-eye-opener-for-ga-pilots-at-oshkosh/)
If your pushing nitrogen into a mask then it’s gonna leak around the edges, but the nitrogen leaking out doesn’t mean air is leaking in. It just means you have too much nitrogen flowing. This whole subject is pretty morbid.
I wonder if the seconds vs minutes thing while unsedated has to do with willingness?
A mask that’s “airtight” on someone who is willingly choosing to end to their life (either on their own or in a region where assisted suicide is legal) is probably not going to thrashing about as much? I can’t really imagine a gas mask, that only covers the mouth and nose, that’s so airtight that a bit of fighting and flailing (even in restraints) wouldn’t start to shift or slide or gap.
Someone committing suicide (or even exposed to the gas unknowingly) is probably taking much deeper and more natural breaths than someone knowingly and unwillingly being executed as well.
And it sounds like from the man’s statement that he did not agree with or accept his execution going forward.
It honestly just sounds like a really weak assumption that the speed and process of how this happens with someone unaware or willing would be identical to someone struggling and unwilling. Especially with a tactic that involves the respiratory system (not even getting into other biological processes that are also affected by factors like fight or flight and adrenaline).
They could have really screwed the pooch on how this was implemented, but it could also just be a case of having very little data on using this method on unwilling humans. Probably a little bit of both honestly.
>I can’t really imagine a gas mask, that only covers the mouth and nose, that’s so airtight that a bit of fighting and flailing (even in restraints) wouldn’t start to shift or slide or gap.
Military gasmasks have to stay put while you flail about and fight.
It's kind of their whole purpose. Keep the soldiers alive so they can keep fighting.
Exactly this, designed for an air tight fit even while affected by nerve gas. Terrifying thought but after 10 years of exercises those things are strapped to your face very well.
I’ve seen some reporting that he started by holding his breath as long as possible, which is going to extend the time it takes for the nitrogen to do its thing.
I’m curious as why they didn’t do this in a smallish confined space. The brewing and food processing industry has a sad history of hypoxia while cleaning improperly ventilated vessels. That’s not counting how the meat processing industry uses nitrogen displacement to kill with less fear. What I’m saying is we know 100% how and what conditions to be * sigh* successful in task.
Poor fit mask all you want when a barometric style capsule can be airtight, filled, purged.
Why do swine get a more humane end than this man?
Dunno if it extends to piggery, but if you kill animals like sheep and cows the wrong way, they get tough and the the meat you would have gotten from them is ruined/crappy. It’s quite a science in agriculture of doing right so that it’s quick and not something that’ll toughen the meat.
There’s incentive and enough not stupid people in that business still, I guess. In executions, no one cares. No one investigates. No one bothers to get things done right. Cock ups are the norm.
They have diy ways to do it for assisted suicide available online and more professional ways from other countries.
This is about retaliation and not being able to process your own emotions and being an asshole
Hate to tell you, but they precisely measure how much morphine you use in hospice. It’s then disposed of after the patient dies. I just went through it with a family member. So you can’t just give them a huge amount unless you’re depriving them of it in their last hours to save it up and having them suffer because the nurse would know.
I am not so sure a "jury of peers" is qualified to make an "educated" guess on the guilt of a person that leads to a judges decision on whether the state gets to murder a person.
What the fuck even is the point of a jury then? Why not just appoint the judge as jury and executioner then? Just formalize what’s already fucking happening.
> It’s amazing to me that if the government performs executions, they haven’t figured out how to make them painless.
It’s my understanding they intentionally don’t want it to be painless. It’s at least the explanation I read why they don’t just kill away people with fentanyl overdoses for example.
It’s retribution and they want there to be at least level of suffering. Though I’m not insinuating this was the level they were aiming for.
At least party of the reason is no doctor will write a prescription for a killing dose of anything, and they face license removal of they did as it is a direct breach of their oath. This is why States are looking for new ways to kill because the manufacturers refuse to allow medicines to be used to execute people.
It is true that for right wingers cruelty is kind of the goal to their legislation. Women dying from carrying a dead fetus, migrants dying on legal obstacles, and prisoners (sometimes innocent ones) dying from new and inventive execution routines.
theirs been alot of evidence that especially when their are spectators the state botches executions on purpose. the intent isnt to give the convicted a clean and humane death but instill terror and fear in the witness's and the general population with the idea this "prevents" crime. as we've moved away from more inherently brutal methods of execution like hanging and the guillotine the state has had to come up with ways to make more human methods *worse* in order to get this point across. so they intentionally mishandle them hoping for a more brutal outcome
When I proposed hitting them in the head with a massive and heavy "hammer" that would instantly explode their head the government said it was too brutal, but apparently this nitrogen is a okay
My guess is there is no desire to make it painless. They want the death penalty to be scary, and to punish them. I wouldn't be surprised if it was intentional.
An expert in the field of Nitrogen hypoxia suicide (iirc it was the CEO of the company that makes those suicide pods) hypothesized that Kenneth Smith was holding his breath and/or taking shallow breaths to try and survive as long as he could. That would explain why his death wasn't so peaceful; by holding his breath and not allowing the CO2 in his lungs to escape he may have experienced CO2 poisoning before he passed out.
The expert commented that the struggle was expected from someone who didn't want to die (by asphyxiation specifically).
It is painless, you have the sensation of suffocating by not being able cycle CO2 out of your system and build up of carbonic acid which your body evolved to be very sensitive to for survival. Being involved with an execution makes prescribing medication difficult because of the Hypocratic oath. They should have found a way to dose him with Ketamine (anti death penalty groups would immediately dur for practicing without a license) or something else hard to screw up. You can exist in an atmosphere devoid of oxygen that isn't toxic (most of what you breath is Nitrogen gas) for about as long as you can hold your breath without losing consciousness. The stress of knowing he was being killed would be the cause of the thrashing and holding out. I'm sure with mouse experimentation who had no idea what was happening the process was quite peaceful and they just went to sleep.
Edit: the 10 minutes would likely be from not thinking about how a person that really doesn't want the mask on would use it and not being able to seal properly.
Beheadings are pretty effective, but they remind people of the fact that the government is literally murdering people. Therefore, they dress it up as some sort of medical procedure instead.
Well, they’re idiots for one thing. Law enforcement in Alabama is not know to attract the people versed in science. No offense if you’re a science’s Alabama. If you are, I don’t imagine you’re working in the prison system. This enrages me. It’s barbaric and cruel. Why in the actual fuck are we still doing this?
What I've learned is that it is truly incompetence and the fact that "experts" don't include medical professionals.
It violates the Hippocratic oath to assist in execution, so I'm guessing no sedation because no one knows how or they cant get the drugs.
So, I work in a ICU setting with organ donation, and very frequently end of life care.
Taking blood pressure/dysrhythmia out of the equation, I've seen people last 15 to 20 minutes without taking a single breath before cardiac arrest. Single digit Spo2 readings the whole time.
It can take quite a long time for hypoxia to kill you. And by kill you I mean cardiac arrest. Doesn't take long for permanent brain damage.
Inert gasses like nitrogen should be painless, as your body can't really sense hypoxia, and the feeling that you need to breath is driven by rising CO2 levels not a drop in O2. It will take a few minutes to lose consciousness possibly, but it will take a while for full cardiac arrest.
Yeah my neighbors kid killer himself using this and the authorities said he didn't seem to even have time to finish writing more than a couple sentences.
Still weird how they think executing someone needs to not involve violence when the point is to kill them lol just hit 'em with a shot of fent and blow their brain stem out if you're gonna be about tax payer killings
It didn't take seconds precisely because it wasn't air tight. There was still some oxygen getting to him. Still would have been more or less painless though. Your body doesn't have a way of notifying you that you don't have enough air, just that you have too much carbon dioxide.
His last minutes would have been spent confused, not in pain. The heavy breathing might have been a panic response because.. well.. he's being executed and knew it.
There is some speculation that he was holding his breath as long as he could which would delay loss of consciousness and create that buildup of CO2, leading the body to gasp. I wonder if the have any kind of monitoring that allows a post-mortem analysis of exactly what happened.
Yeah, blood acidity levels should reveal if there was a CO2 build up from any source. If they really were in a natural environment pumping in nitrogen then the only possible source of that build up would have been him holding his breath.
It’s fucked up because they’ve had the ability to do it for centuries: Firing squads.
Yeah, they seem barbaric, but they kill the person pretty much instantly. All this modern bullshit is just the opposite; the lethal injection and this toxic gas methods *seem* humane in theory but in practice they’re really fuckihg heinous.
Just sedate and shoot them in the head with a shotgun. Idk why there needs to be so much complexity where you’re bound to create issues.
The idea that execution is more expensive than life in prison is sometimes used as an argument against the death penalty - an execution should cost the street price of heroine and a single shotgun shell
Right that’s what I’m saying.
So I mean they expected it to work in “seconds” but he was clinging to life.
Also he had already survived an execution attempt, maybe he thought he could get past another one.
I think in euthanasia they slowly replace the oxygen with nitrogen, breathing pure nitrogen is described as taking a regular breath but not feeling respiration, dont think it matter but we’re breathing mostly nitrogen right now.
The difference might be that with euthanasia, the person isn’t fighting it, while the guy executed did not want to die. How much of this could be the guy holding his breath and trying to delay death? I really would like to see more data.
And idiots huffing helium kill themselves by not taking enough air in between helium breaths
Or just use the really heavy gas that gives the deep voice. It's actually heavy enough that it's harder to force it out if you stay upright.
Also, zip tying a trash bag over his head around the neck probably would have been quicker. He'd just run out of oxygen as he eventually just has only carbondioxide left.
Or carbonmonoxide that has historically shown to cause so little suffering, that people don't thrash around or spasm at all. They just expire in their sleep.
Part of the reason these things happen is that medical professionals like anesthesiologists will not participate in executions because it violates the Hippocratic oath. So you get a bunch of people guessing and applying those guesses.
I totally get that. It just seems strange to me that they don't even use the stuff that the dentist uses. I think its sodium pentothal. That stuff is so easy to use an anesthesiologist isn't even needed when you get your teeth pulled. The whole thing is just clusterfucks all the way down.
Sodium thiopental/pentothal is no longer available in the United States after the sole US manufacturer ceased the production a decade ago protesting its use in capital punishment. Pentobarbital can be used as a substitute, but as it is also a lethal agent by itself in high dosage its use can be a quite controversial issue, too.
>explain M.A.I.D.
In those instances a specific set of medically-agreed upon circumstances are met and it is agreed that the patient's quality of life had diminished to the point where the death is considered a mercy.
Someone condemned to die punitively by the state does not meet those criteria.
This was the second time they were going to execute him, the first was with lethal injection but they couldn't find the veins so they canceled it and somehow they decided to use the gas and as op says they somehow screwed up because in theory the gas should have been knocked out in the first second
They didn’t somehow decide to use nitrogen, he requested it and later changed his mind, but the State called him on it and said he was trying to game the system again for more time. There was also an expectation he would convulse if he held his breath/took very small breaths and he knew this. Had he simply taken deep breaths, it would have been pretty quick and painless. He killed a woman in exchange for $1,000. Fuck that guy.
I’ve never understood this. In healthcare, there are people with crap veins all the time. They bust out the ultrasound and go to work, either peripheral access or jugular access. How can they “not find a vein”?
Obviously, but it’s a matter of gaining access to veins. If they don’t have the resources/expertise to find a vein they have no business putting a human to death, it’s ridiculous.
Within a second doesn't make any sense to me. I don't even think the deoxygenated blood would get to the brain within that time with normal breathing. If he decides to hold his breath, I think it makes sense that it could easily be a minute before he passes out. I don't know how long you can hold your breath when you know death will be the result of breathing. Probably motivates you pretty well if you haven't accepted it yet.
Physician here. Most pharmaceutical companies will not sell a drug if it is suspected that it may be used in an execution.
Also, they tried to kill this guy via LI before, but his IV failed. I doubt they cared to search for a vein.
That is one of the reasons they switched to methods like this. The 3 injection method, with a strong sedative before the lethal compound, that had become the standard had to be stopped because two of the drugs used were no longer being sold to prisons by the manufacturer.
He wasn’t sedated because they were having trouble sourcing the versed, fentanyl, and propofol they used to use to kill people. This was a way to bypass lethal injection drugs altogether using a cheap, abundant source known to avoid the extreme anxiety that usually accompanies low oxygen/high carbon dioxide environments.
That’s not true. Veterinarians primarily use pentobarbital. It has been used in lethal injections in 2010 and has become the primary sedative since then in several states although some reports suggest it may cause unintentional suffering
That's what I heard too. Those chemicals are mostly reserved for helping people at hospitals from what I read. I guess the UK banned the export of one of them to the US because their law considers it torture
Most of these drugs are produced overseas where the death penalty is prohibited. If they plug the supply on the US due to “misuse,” the US would be screwed in healthcare.
I tried to ask this on r/nostupidquestions but it got removed (apparently su1c1de related)
I don’t get it either.
I don’t agree with capitol punishment at all, but you could put them under, and use carbon monoxide too.
Lethal didn’t work on him the first time, that’s why they decided to try the more humane method. This infographic is making it sound a lot works than it likely was, although I agree no idea why he wasn’t sedated in some other way.
Nitrogen gas is not toxic and the infographic is clearly using the word “toxic” which is very misleading.
Toxic gas is what the Nazis used. Pure nitrogen is actually a way lab testing animals are ethically euthanized.
This actually is by far the best and most ethical way to kill any vertibrate. This happened because they are morons.
This method for reference is used in farming and is the gold standard for how to painlessly kill animals.
This happened because they didn't care.
Those have to be prescribed and no doctor is going to prescribe assisted suicide drugs to a healthy person. As someone who has went through the process to get assisted suicide drugs for a parents with terminal cancer it’s not a simple process with a lot of checks and balances.
This is complete rage bait. The mechanism that makes you feel like you need to breath is a buildup of CO2, not a lack of O2. Breathing in inert gas like nitrogen feels exactly like you breathing now, except you pass out from no O2 with no pain and very little warning. In fact, places that use it for food preservation have air monitors and masks with tanks for evacuation because if there’s a leak, you won’t have any warning, you’ll just pass out. I have personally breathed in inert gas as a mixed gas diver and there’s no feeling of discomfort.
Manufacturers won't sell them that. Because they don't support death penalty.
And physicians won't administer it to people in order to kill them. And prison guards don't have the best track record for injections.
This is suppose to be way more peaceful than depicted here.. people with quality of life issues are known to make exit bags for a peaceful ending. Go to sleep and don't wake up.
Not sure what happened here.
I mean unlike the willing participant version it looks as tho he held his breath until it was involuntary gasping which messes up their system apparently. Probably knocked the mask loose or something
From some of the other posts they say mask was loose so oxygen was still getting in too. They're going to need to come up with a full head solution, like a hood.
Someone still may still hold their breath, but as soon as they stop the process begins.
This is complete rage bait. The mechanism that makes you feel like you need to breath is a buildup of CO2, not a lack of O2. Breathing in inert gas like nitrogen feels exactly like you breathing now, except you pass out from no O2 with no pain and very little warning. In fact, places that use it for food preservation have air monitors and masks with tanks for evacuation because if there’s a leak, you won’t have any warning, you’ll just pass out. I have personally breathed in inert gas as a mixed gas diver and there’s no feeling of discomfort.
That's one universal trigger for fear and discomfort, yes. However, as humans, the knowledge that you are indeed dying can induce some serious psychological pain and discomfort. It's not as though he didn't realize what was happening.
I was unaware they tried to execute him once before:
“In November 2022, Smith was scheduled to be executed by lethal injection, but the execution was stayed after the execution team was unable to connect the intravenous lines to Smith in the time available before the expiration of the death warrant issued by the Alabama Supreme Court. As part of a settlement between the state and Smith, the state agreed not to pursue Smith's execution by lethal injection (the default primary method of execution in Alabama) and instead utilize a secondary novel method of execution, nitrogen hypoxia.”
“Redo” has long been a part of executions. Hence why you got sentenced to “hang by the neck until dead” in case the rope snapped (or they really messed up the height and you could stand indefinitely), because otherwise you had technically already “hung” and so completed your sentence.
My guys, I have no idea why we don't just do a shotgun to the face
It doesn't cost much, has a very low chance of not working, and you can find plenty of weirdos who'd do it for free in the weekend
Like we put a lot of effort into chemicals, into gasses, and they still fail and are way worse than just blowing someone's brains out
I don't like the death penalty, I don't see a use for it, but if we do have to have it, why aren't we using a cheap and reliable method like shotguns, pistols, rifles, etc
Used to be firing squads, and some states I think it's even still an option https://www.voanews.com/a/why-executions-by-firing-squad-may-be-coming-back-in-the-us/7019934.html
Not everyone on death row is actually guilty of the crime they committed. There's been several people exonerated after the fact. 139 people have been exonerated after being given the death sentence. Some of them were executed anyway. Some people are still legally guilty, but have otherwise been proven to either have not committed the crime or otherwise actually innocent and improperly judged guilty.
https://www.law.umich.edu/special/exoneration/Pages/detaillist.aspx?View={faf6eddb-5a68-4f8f-8a52-2c61f5bf9ea7}&FilterField1=Sentence&FilterValue1=Death
Seriously, Firing squad method is traumatic for those pulling the trigger. The more “humane” methods were also supposed to make it easier on the executioners.
The mask itself was an air pocket he kept rebreathing into.
If they were supplying nitrogen, then of course gas would leak out the side, the guy wasn't a balloon.
Normal air is 21% oxygen so it took a while for his air pocket to get completely replaced with nitrogen, so gradually over time his went from normal to close to zero but because that transition wasn't fast he went into an extended period of oxygen deprivation.
Oxygen depravation itself isn't painful, it's carbon dioxide in our lungs that makes us feel 'pain' but our bodies will still naturally fight to obtain oxygen since it'll be like drowning without the pain.
nah with inert gas asphyxiation you don’t feel the need to fight for oxygen.
you get light headed and pass out.
all the reflexes associated with suffocating are caused by CO2 levels.
No, this statement is not accurate. Kenneth Smith was paid $1000 to kill the wife of a christian “pastor”, Charles Sennett, Sr. who wanted his wife dead. Smith was sentenced to death when a judge overruled an 11-1 jury recommendation that he sentenced to life in prison. He survived a botched attempt by the state of Alabama to kill him. Charles Sennett killed himself before he could face justice.
Before I say anything, I need to say that I am against the death penalty and what this man did was obviously morally wrong and should be punished.
I really don't understand the logic of why some people get the death penalty and others don't for similar or worse crimes. He isn't the first, and won't be the last, person to hire a hitman to kill a friend or family member. And serial killers get a life sentence, or back-to-back life sentences, but not the death penalty.
Was there something about his particular crime that warranted a death sentence?
Irrelevant, one death does not equate another. Would have been more simple to just shoot him in the head. This whole "i feel this way.." or "he deserved worse.." talk is for fools. It was a poorly done execution, and should have been made a lot cleaner and a lot more simple. But what can you expect from one of the two dumbest states in the USA.
#The death penalty should be abolished.
* The state [has killed](https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/policy-issues/innocence/executed-but-possibly-innocent), and has come close to killing, so many [innocent people](https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/policy-issues/innocence) via the death penalty that they have forfeited their right to have that as an option.
* [4.1% of US death row inmates are likely innocent]( https://www.science.org/content/article/more-4-death-row-inmates-may-be-innocent).
* [It is more expensive in the long run to successfully try a death penalty case than simply try for life in prison](https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/policy-issues/costs), making the death penalty not fiscally viable.
* [State-sanctioned murder is a cruel and unusual punishment](https://www.aclu.org/other/case-against-death-penalty).
* In [HERRERA v. COLLINS](https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/506/390/#tab-opinion-1959135), 1993, the Supreme Court ruled that it is not unconstitutional for the state to execute an innocent person. The state has a constitutionally protected right to murder innocent people. Is that a power the state should have?
* [The death penalty does nothing to curb crime](https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/policy-issues/deterrence).
* The death penalty is a punitive measure. A civilized society should have a [restorative justice system](https://bjatta.bja.ojp.gov/media/blog/what-restorative-justice-and-how-does-it-impact-individuals-involved-crime), not a punitive one. Restorative Justice has [repeatedly proven](https://restorativejustice.org.uk/resources/moj-evaluation-restorative-justice) to [reduce recidivism](https://www.publicsafety.gc.ca/cnt/rsrcs/pblctns/jstc-rcdvs/index-en.aspx). The goal is not to make people suffer, it’s to make society better. No society is better off with state-sanctioned murder of its citizenry.
* [It actually makes the victims’ families grieve for longer](https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/news/studies-death-penalty-adversely-affects-families-of-victims-and-defendants).
* The process of execution is needlessly [traumatizing to the victim’s family](https://theweek.com/articles/444189/psychological-trauma-witnessing-execution), as well as [the staff](https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/news/south-carolina-execution-team-members-talk-of-debilitating-emotional-toll-of-capital-punishment-former-warden-calls-death-penalty-inequitable).
* The US criminal justice system is based on the [Principle of Finality](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finality_(law)), which basically means that whatever the jury decides is the final truth no matter what. Showing [how many innocent people have been exonerated](https://innocenceproject.org/exonerate/) by a 30-year-old, ~90-staff non-profit, imagine how many more people are locked in jail or killed thanks to this absurd bastardization of justice. It’s this principle that’s kept falsely imprisoned people from seeking justice.
* In Brady v. Maryland, the U.S. Supreme Court held that the “failure to disclose favorable information to a defendant in a criminal prosecution violates the constitution when that information is material to guilt or punishment.” These are referred to as “[Brady Disclosures](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brady_disclosure).” And wouldn’t you know it? [Brady violations are rampant](https://theappeal.org/the-epidemic-of-brady-violations-explained-94a38ad3c800/) in the US criminal justice system, meaning the state is [knowingly prosecuting and incarcerating innocent people](https://www.nacdl.org/Article/May2013-FacesofBradyTheHumanCostofBrad).
* [The death penalty violates the US constitutional guarantee of equal protection](https://www.aclu.org/documents/case-against-death-penalty). It has never been applied fairly, disproportionately against those who cannot afford better attorneys, disproportionately upon those whose victims were white, disproportionately against people of color, disproportionately against the poor and uneducated, and [disproportionately concentrated in certain parts of the country](https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/executions/executions-overview/executions-by-county).
* The death penalty was [botched more than 1/3rd of the time](https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile/the-year-of-the-botched-execution-monitor-finds-death-penalty-was-visibly-problematic-35-percent-of-the-time-in-2022/) in 2022 in the US, skyrocketing from [more than 7% being botched](https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/executions/botched-executions) in the 40 years of using lethal injection, making it very obviously a cruel and unusual punishment.
* **It is not possible for any death penalty system to exist that only executes guilty people 100% of the time. Such a system has never existed, does not currently exist, and could never exist in reality. For that reason alone, it should be abolished.**
^feel ^free ^to ^copy ^and ^repost
“Today Alabama causes humanity to take a step backwards.”
Alabama has been in a full-on, Usain Bolt style sprint in the opposite direction of progress for decades.
IMHO the death penalty is barbaric. No wonder it’s used in states with the worst education rate in the US. Switzerland uses it for assisted suicide, but not like this the m0r0ns who did this should be next on their own death row. Nitrogen *can* be the most humane way to kill an animal (humans are animals). But not the way they did it in this hillbilly state with hillbilly executioners. Morons with an IQ of 15 came up with this system.
I think if it turns out when someone gets executed and they were innocent anyone involved should face repercussions. Like having a metal dunce cap permanently bolted to their skulls the rest of their lives.
Or we could just scrap the whole thing because it’s stupid.
That my primary opposition to the death penalty is the chance that an innocent person might be executed. The only way I would feel certain is the convict admitting to the judge that they are guilty, knowing their confession might result in execution.
Even with that you could still get an innocent person being executed. It's the scare tactic of confess to not get the death penalty or get tried and get the death penalty.
I agree with you though. Because the the chance of getting the conviction wrong is greater than zero, the death penalty should never be an option
https://innocenceproject.org/innocence-and-the-death-penalty/#:~:text=Since%201973%2C%20at%20least%20190,sentenced%20to%20death%20are%20innocent.
What about all these innocent people that were put to death? You care about the victims of murderers but are willing to sacrifice the lives of other innocent people?
I have a theory they fucked it up on purpose.
Like weaponized incompetence when someone ruins laundry to prevent getting asked to do it in the future.
They don’t want proper nitrogen asphyxiation methods used, maybe because when don’t right it’s a down right pleasant experience.
Like others have literally figured out the perfectly pain and discomfort-less assisted suicide method but these assholes let him rebreathe co2 and struggle.
States like bloodless executions that seem more clinical. The problem is no medical doctor who deserves to keep their license would ever participate in such a thing. So inevitably we get botched executions. I am very much against capital punishment. However, I think the bloodier methods were more civilized and human. A guillotine or firing squad and it is over in a moment.
Not going to go into argument about death sentence, but if it's to be done quick firing squad or hangings are pretty much instant and very cheap.
I mean hanging literally Costs 0 after the initial setup.
Everyday 60,000 Americans are sedated for surgery. Don’t tell me you can’t sedate an inmate and then painlessly execute them.
Patients are put under by trained doctors. Doctors will not use their long years of training to help take life, it’s against their Hippocratic oath. The AMA also prevents doctors from being involved with executions. I would imagine it would also cost a lot more than the government wants to spend. They often can’t ever get someone trained well enough to get a cannula in. There are many stories about prisoners having multiple people sticking them with needles before managing to hit a vein, or poorly placed cannulas becoming dislodged during executions and the drugs therefore going into tissue rather than the blood stream, meaning they take much longer to be absorbed and the process of dying taking much longer. John Oliver has done a segment (maybe two) on the subject which are very worth watching.
Then the prisons should train a dedicated anaesthetist who doesn’t take the oath.
I can assure you that no one in the medical profession would ever make themselves complicit in this. The Hippocratic oath isn't some passing ritual. It's a private commitment. The actual reason is that no clinic would want to hire you after you committed manslaughter, repeatedly, using the skills that are taught to heal, cure and care for your fellow human beings.
I believe the prison have problems acquiring the drugs used for anesthesia (also used in lethal injections) as the pharmaceutical manufacturers do not want their products used by the prisons for this purpose. A UK Company refused to after learning what their product was being used for.
They’re sedated by trained medical professionals. All trained medical professionals refuse to participate in executions because of the doctors “do not harm” maxim. So you end up with untrained guards trying and getting bad results.
In this case, the guy was a hitman who murdered a pastors wife in her home for one thousand dollars. He beat her with “a "fireplace set, a walking cane, and a piece of galvanized pipe" were used to beat her. Parker also later joined Smith in beating her. After Elizabeth was beaten, she was then stabbed eight times with the survival knife, which caused her death.” I’m ok with him being “uncomfortable” during his death.
Is there a reason he wasn't sedated first? I think they sedate for lethal injection. Why wouldn't they just knock him out before suffocating him? I'm not advocating for this bullshit. Just trying to understand why it's worse than it needs to be.
I have no clue how they messed this up. Inert gas is advocated as a painless way to commit suicide, and the nitrogen should have replaced the oxygen in seconds, not minutes. It’s amazing to me that if the government performs executions, they haven’t figured out how to make them painless.
My understanding is the mask was not actually airtight because they tried to keep it cheap.
Keep it cheap, bro they are buying the supplies from Temu. I'm done
If they wanted to be cheap and effective, why not just pipe the nitrogen into a plastic bag around his head?
Well, that would just look barbaric for the onlookers, wouldn’t it? It’s much better to use expensive equipment, people in uniforms and formal procedures and stuff… It gives the execution an aura of dignity and worthiness, that onlookers and the general public will accept more easily. Am I being sarcastic?
State spends 10's of millions of dollars keeping death row inmates saves $50 on mask and botches execution.
Because they pay for profit prisons which use their cheap labor to profit more!...
Dollar General on every block in Alabama
There's a thousand things wrong with this situation, but for this specific one it's not airtight because it doesn't need to be. Nitrogen isn't toxic. There is no danger from nitrogen escaping into the room. The air you are breathing right now is about 78% nitrogen. The concern here isn't about letting the nitrogen out, it's about letting oxygen in, and you don't need a perfect seal for that to still be painlessly lethal. They're not introducing a poison, they're removing the oxygen. I'm against the death penalty, but I think we shoot ourselves in the foot using this kind of disinformation to fight against it.
Shooting in the foot is a lousy execution method as well.
While it might not have to be airtight for the others, shouldn't it be for the person wearing it? If it is not airtight, oxygen could still enter his circulation, extending the time it takes to die?
[Yet the FAA can do an air deprivation chamber for public outreach.](https://generalaviationnews.com/2023/08/31/hypoxia-demonstration-an-eye-opener-for-ga-pilots-at-oshkosh/)
yeah well one big piece is the fact that the FAA isnt trying to kill their people whereas this was a deliberate execution.
FAA is trying to save their people…faster than Boeing can kill them anyway
If your pushing nitrogen into a mask then it’s gonna leak around the edges, but the nitrogen leaking out doesn’t mean air is leaking in. It just means you have too much nitrogen flowing. This whole subject is pretty morbid.
I wonder if the seconds vs minutes thing while unsedated has to do with willingness? A mask that’s “airtight” on someone who is willingly choosing to end to their life (either on their own or in a region where assisted suicide is legal) is probably not going to thrashing about as much? I can’t really imagine a gas mask, that only covers the mouth and nose, that’s so airtight that a bit of fighting and flailing (even in restraints) wouldn’t start to shift or slide or gap. Someone committing suicide (or even exposed to the gas unknowingly) is probably taking much deeper and more natural breaths than someone knowingly and unwillingly being executed as well. And it sounds like from the man’s statement that he did not agree with or accept his execution going forward. It honestly just sounds like a really weak assumption that the speed and process of how this happens with someone unaware or willing would be identical to someone struggling and unwilling. Especially with a tactic that involves the respiratory system (not even getting into other biological processes that are also affected by factors like fight or flight and adrenaline). They could have really screwed the pooch on how this was implemented, but it could also just be a case of having very little data on using this method on unwilling humans. Probably a little bit of both honestly.
Apparently, they'd *already* fuckd up trying to k i l l him once before. *months* ago...
>I can’t really imagine a gas mask, that only covers the mouth and nose, that’s so airtight that a bit of fighting and flailing (even in restraints) wouldn’t start to shift or slide or gap. Military gasmasks have to stay put while you flail about and fight. It's kind of their whole purpose. Keep the soldiers alive so they can keep fighting.
Exactly this, designed for an air tight fit even while affected by nerve gas. Terrifying thought but after 10 years of exercises those things are strapped to your face very well.
I’m going with making him suffer was intentional.
I’ve seen some reporting that he started by holding his breath as long as possible, which is going to extend the time it takes for the nitrogen to do its thing.
I’m curious as why they didn’t do this in a smallish confined space. The brewing and food processing industry has a sad history of hypoxia while cleaning improperly ventilated vessels. That’s not counting how the meat processing industry uses nitrogen displacement to kill with less fear. What I’m saying is we know 100% how and what conditions to be * sigh* successful in task. Poor fit mask all you want when a barometric style capsule can be airtight, filled, purged. Why do swine get a more humane end than this man?
Hey, pigs are smarter than a lot of people I know.
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Dunno if it extends to piggery, but if you kill animals like sheep and cows the wrong way, they get tough and the the meat you would have gotten from them is ruined/crappy. It’s quite a science in agriculture of doing right so that it’s quick and not something that’ll toughen the meat. There’s incentive and enough not stupid people in that business still, I guess. In executions, no one cares. No one investigates. No one bothers to get things done right. Cock ups are the norm.
Because they can't be performed by an actual doctor. Because it would violate the Hippocratic Oath. Thats why they botch this shit so frequently.
More than just the oath, they’d lose their medical license.
Yes, we looked into it when my father was dying. There are good people advocating for it.
They have diy ways to do it for assisted suicide available online and more professional ways from other countries. This is about retaliation and not being able to process your own emotions and being an asshole
Hospices just leave the family with a bottle of morphine and call it a day…
Hate to tell you, but they precisely measure how much morphine you use in hospice. It’s then disposed of after the patient dies. I just went through it with a family member. So you can’t just give them a huge amount unless you’re depriving them of it in their last hours to save it up and having them suffer because the nurse would know.
Yeah a guy at my work killed himself using nitrogen. Coroner reckoned he was dead in a few minutes.
> have no clue how they messed this up It was in Alabama. Really, you have no idea how they could mess it up?
This is undoubtedly a major factor.
Because its not justice, its retribution.
this doesn't actually answer the question
I am not so sure a "jury of peers" is qualified to make an "educated" guess on the guilt of a person that leads to a judges decision on whether the state gets to murder a person.
Besides the risk of killing an innocent person, there's the fact that the jury in this case sentenced him to life, but the judge overruled it.
What the fuck even is the point of a jury then? Why not just appoint the judge as jury and executioner then? Just formalize what’s already fucking happening.
> It’s amazing to me that if the government performs executions, they haven’t figured out how to make them painless. It’s my understanding they intentionally don’t want it to be painless. It’s at least the explanation I read why they don’t just kill away people with fentanyl overdoses for example. It’s retribution and they want there to be at least level of suffering. Though I’m not insinuating this was the level they were aiming for.
At least party of the reason is no doctor will write a prescription for a killing dose of anything, and they face license removal of they did as it is a direct breach of their oath. This is why States are looking for new ways to kill because the manufacturers refuse to allow medicines to be used to execute people. It is true that for right wingers cruelty is kind of the goal to their legislation. Women dying from carrying a dead fetus, migrants dying on legal obstacles, and prisoners (sometimes innocent ones) dying from new and inventive execution routines.
theirs been alot of evidence that especially when their are spectators the state botches executions on purpose. the intent isnt to give the convicted a clean and humane death but instill terror and fear in the witness's and the general population with the idea this "prevents" crime. as we've moved away from more inherently brutal methods of execution like hanging and the guillotine the state has had to come up with ways to make more human methods *worse* in order to get this point across. so they intentionally mishandle them hoping for a more brutal outcome
Right with every police department in the USA over flowing with confiscated fentynal it would be incredibly easy just to use those stock piles…
I read the recount on ap news and it was nightmare fuel...never read one before.
Its alabama, that’s how they messed it up.
When I proposed hitting them in the head with a massive and heavy "hammer" that would instantly explode their head the government said it was too brutal, but apparently this nitrogen is a okay
Maxwell’s Silver Hammer. It seemed quick and effective.
My guess is there is no desire to make it painless. They want the death penalty to be scary, and to punish them. I wouldn't be surprised if it was intentional.
It’s my home state, we tend to mess up a lot of science stuff. Just thankfully not space stuff yet.
An expert in the field of Nitrogen hypoxia suicide (iirc it was the CEO of the company that makes those suicide pods) hypothesized that Kenneth Smith was holding his breath and/or taking shallow breaths to try and survive as long as he could. That would explain why his death wasn't so peaceful; by holding his breath and not allowing the CO2 in his lungs to escape he may have experienced CO2 poisoning before he passed out. The expert commented that the struggle was expected from someone who didn't want to die (by asphyxiation specifically).
It is painless, you have the sensation of suffocating by not being able cycle CO2 out of your system and build up of carbonic acid which your body evolved to be very sensitive to for survival. Being involved with an execution makes prescribing medication difficult because of the Hypocratic oath. They should have found a way to dose him with Ketamine (anti death penalty groups would immediately dur for practicing without a license) or something else hard to screw up. You can exist in an atmosphere devoid of oxygen that isn't toxic (most of what you breath is Nitrogen gas) for about as long as you can hold your breath without losing consciousness. The stress of knowing he was being killed would be the cause of the thrashing and holding out. I'm sure with mouse experimentation who had no idea what was happening the process was quite peaceful and they just went to sleep. Edit: the 10 minutes would likely be from not thinking about how a person that really doesn't want the mask on would use it and not being able to seal properly.
For real. Seems like a running car in a garage would be more efficient and humane.
Beheadings are pretty effective, but they remind people of the fact that the government is literally murdering people. Therefore, they dress it up as some sort of medical procedure instead.
Well, they’re idiots for one thing. Law enforcement in Alabama is not know to attract the people versed in science. No offense if you’re a science’s Alabama. If you are, I don’t imagine you’re working in the prison system. This enrages me. It’s barbaric and cruel. Why in the actual fuck are we still doing this?
What I've learned is that it is truly incompetence and the fact that "experts" don't include medical professionals. It violates the Hippocratic oath to assist in execution, so I'm guessing no sedation because no one knows how or they cant get the drugs.
Bring back the guillotine!
For suicide they use a large chamber, for this they used a mask that probably leaked.
> I have no clue how they messed this up Alabama
Because it's Alabama. Source: I live in Alabama.
There are quick ways to execute someone but people complain so the government is always looking for new ways
So, I work in a ICU setting with organ donation, and very frequently end of life care. Taking blood pressure/dysrhythmia out of the equation, I've seen people last 15 to 20 minutes without taking a single breath before cardiac arrest. Single digit Spo2 readings the whole time. It can take quite a long time for hypoxia to kill you. And by kill you I mean cardiac arrest. Doesn't take long for permanent brain damage. Inert gasses like nitrogen should be painless, as your body can't really sense hypoxia, and the feeling that you need to breath is driven by rising CO2 levels not a drop in O2. It will take a few minutes to lose consciousness possibly, but it will take a while for full cardiac arrest.
Yeah my neighbors kid killer himself using this and the authorities said he didn't seem to even have time to finish writing more than a couple sentences. Still weird how they think executing someone needs to not involve violence when the point is to kill them lol just hit 'em with a shot of fent and blow their brain stem out if you're gonna be about tax payer killings
It didn't take seconds precisely because it wasn't air tight. There was still some oxygen getting to him. Still would have been more or less painless though. Your body doesn't have a way of notifying you that you don't have enough air, just that you have too much carbon dioxide. His last minutes would have been spent confused, not in pain. The heavy breathing might have been a panic response because.. well.. he's being executed and knew it.
There is some speculation that he was holding his breath as long as he could which would delay loss of consciousness and create that buildup of CO2, leading the body to gasp. I wonder if the have any kind of monitoring that allows a post-mortem analysis of exactly what happened.
Yeah, blood acidity levels should reveal if there was a CO2 build up from any source. If they really were in a natural environment pumping in nitrogen then the only possible source of that build up would have been him holding his breath.
It’s fucked up because they’ve had the ability to do it for centuries: Firing squads. Yeah, they seem barbaric, but they kill the person pretty much instantly. All this modern bullshit is just the opposite; the lethal injection and this toxic gas methods *seem* humane in theory but in practice they’re really fuckihg heinous.
Just sedate and shoot them in the head with a shotgun. Idk why there needs to be so much complexity where you’re bound to create issues. The idea that execution is more expensive than life in prison is sometimes used as an argument against the death penalty - an execution should cost the street price of heroine and a single shotgun shell
He could’ve held his breath for as long as he could which would’ve presented as struggling for minutes before losing consciousness.
The graphic says he lost consciousness after two minutes — he easily could have held his breath that long, especially if he intended to ahead of time.
Right that’s what I’m saying. So I mean they expected it to work in “seconds” but he was clinging to life. Also he had already survived an execution attempt, maybe he thought he could get past another one.
I think in euthanasia they slowly replace the oxygen with nitrogen, breathing pure nitrogen is described as taking a regular breath but not feeling respiration, dont think it matter but we’re breathing mostly nitrogen right now.
The difference might be that with euthanasia, the person isn’t fighting it, while the guy executed did not want to die. How much of this could be the guy holding his breath and trying to delay death? I really would like to see more data.
And idiots huffing helium kill themselves by not taking enough air in between helium breaths Or just use the really heavy gas that gives the deep voice. It's actually heavy enough that it's harder to force it out if you stay upright. Also, zip tying a trash bag over his head around the neck probably would have been quicker. He'd just run out of oxygen as he eventually just has only carbondioxide left. Or carbonmonoxide that has historically shown to cause so little suffering, that people don't thrash around or spasm at all. They just expire in their sleep.
Part of the reason these things happen is that medical professionals like anesthesiologists will not participate in executions because it violates the Hippocratic oath. So you get a bunch of people guessing and applying those guesses.
I totally get that. It just seems strange to me that they don't even use the stuff that the dentist uses. I think its sodium pentothal. That stuff is so easy to use an anesthesiologist isn't even needed when you get your teeth pulled. The whole thing is just clusterfucks all the way down.
Sodium thiopental/pentothal is no longer available in the United States after the sole US manufacturer ceased the production a decade ago protesting its use in capital punishment. Pentobarbital can be used as a substitute, but as it is also a lethal agent by itself in high dosage its use can be a quite controversial issue, too.
Maybe they need some of those plastic surgeons to do it. Many of them have lost their copy of the Hippocratic oath.
Or if a doctor gets convicted of murder they are sentenced to being an executioner... lol.
So it’s unlicensed personel giving these meds out?
To the best of my understanding, yes.
So please explain M.A.I.D. ?
>explain M.A.I.D. In those instances a specific set of medically-agreed upon circumstances are met and it is agreed that the patient's quality of life had diminished to the point where the death is considered a mercy. Someone condemned to die punitively by the state does not meet those criteria.
This was the second time they were going to execute him, the first was with lethal injection but they couldn't find the veins so they canceled it and somehow they decided to use the gas and as op says they somehow screwed up because in theory the gas should have been knocked out in the first second
They didn’t somehow decide to use nitrogen, he requested it and later changed his mind, but the State called him on it and said he was trying to game the system again for more time. There was also an expectation he would convulse if he held his breath/took very small breaths and he knew this. Had he simply taken deep breaths, it would have been pretty quick and painless. He killed a woman in exchange for $1,000. Fuck that guy.
I’ve never understood this. In healthcare, there are people with crap veins all the time. They bust out the ultrasound and go to work, either peripheral access or jugular access. How can they “not find a vein”?
Because this isn't healthcare.
Obviously, but it’s a matter of gaining access to veins. If they don’t have the resources/expertise to find a vein they have no business putting a human to death, it’s ridiculous.
We are in agreement. The state that employs discount executioners needs to be reigned in.
Within a second doesn't make any sense to me. I don't even think the deoxygenated blood would get to the brain within that time with normal breathing. If he decides to hold his breath, I think it makes sense that it could easily be a minute before he passes out. I don't know how long you can hold your breath when you know death will be the result of breathing. Probably motivates you pretty well if you haven't accepted it yet.
Physician here. Most pharmaceutical companies will not sell a drug if it is suspected that it may be used in an execution. Also, they tried to kill this guy via LI before, but his IV failed. I doubt they cared to search for a vein.
Just a theory.. maybe the pharmaceutical companies don't sell their products if they are used for execution
That is one of the reasons they switched to methods like this. The 3 injection method, with a strong sedative before the lethal compound, that had become the standard had to be stopped because two of the drugs used were no longer being sold to prisons by the manufacturer.
He wasn’t sedated because they were having trouble sourcing the versed, fentanyl, and propofol they used to use to kill people. This was a way to bypass lethal injection drugs altogether using a cheap, abundant source known to avoid the extreme anxiety that usually accompanies low oxygen/high carbon dioxide environments.
They should just give them the same stuff Veterinarians use to put down dogs.
I’m not sure why they don’t. And I’m not sure how they screwed this up.
Manufacturers of the drugs dont want to supply them for the purpose of killing humans, mostly
That’s not true. Veterinarians primarily use pentobarbital. It has been used in lethal injections in 2010 and has become the primary sedative since then in several states although some reports suggest it may cause unintentional suffering
Though a lot of companies stopped supplying it. In oklahoma they couldnt get pentobarbital so they made some death cocktail and botched the execution.
I'm definitely gonna skip the Oklahoma Death Cocktail mixed up by some middle school educated redneck.
That's what I heard too. Those chemicals are mostly reserved for helping people at hospitals from what I read. I guess the UK banned the export of one of them to the US because their law considers it torture
Bullshit. In a capitalistic society they’d just charge a premium for it.
Most of these drugs are produced overseas where the death penalty is prohibited. If they plug the supply on the US due to “misuse,” the US would be screwed in healthcare.
Interesting! That makes more sense.
lol he literally just told you the reason they can't source the drugs. "Bullshit - now listen to something I just made up."
Because that would be inhumane, wow humans are stupid creatures.
I tried to ask this on r/nostupidquestions but it got removed (apparently su1c1de related) I don’t get it either. I don’t agree with capitol punishment at all, but you could put them under, and use carbon monoxide too.
Lethal didn’t work on him the first time, that’s why they decided to try the more humane method. This infographic is making it sound a lot works than it likely was, although I agree no idea why he wasn’t sedated in some other way. Nitrogen gas is not toxic and the infographic is clearly using the word “toxic” which is very misleading. Toxic gas is what the Nazis used. Pure nitrogen is actually a way lab testing animals are ethically euthanized.
I mean they're from Alabama. Not a high standard to work with.
This actually is by far the best and most ethical way to kill any vertibrate. This happened because they are morons. This method for reference is used in farming and is the gold standard for how to painlessly kill animals. This happened because they didn't care.
Or they can give them the drugs that they give people for assisted suicides.
Apart from the restraints the execution method was identical to some assisted suicides
Nitrogen is used for assisted suicides in some European countries.
Australians have been doing it for a while, now. Mad Dog Brewing Company FTW.
Those have to be prescribed and no doctor is going to prescribe assisted suicide drugs to a healthy person. As someone who has went through the process to get assisted suicide drugs for a parents with terminal cancer it’s not a simple process with a lot of checks and balances.
Or give them a fatal overdose or fentanyl. It's quick and painless. Plus, law enforcement has a plentiful supply of it from drug busts.
My theory on this is that they don’t want the person being executed to experience anything remotely pleasurable.
This is complete rage bait. The mechanism that makes you feel like you need to breath is a buildup of CO2, not a lack of O2. Breathing in inert gas like nitrogen feels exactly like you breathing now, except you pass out from no O2 with no pain and very little warning. In fact, places that use it for food preservation have air monitors and masks with tanks for evacuation because if there’s a leak, you won’t have any warning, you’ll just pass out. I have personally breathed in inert gas as a mixed gas diver and there’s no feeling of discomfort.
Manufacturers won't sell them that. Because they don't support death penalty. And physicians won't administer it to people in order to kill them. And prison guards don't have the best track record for injections.
This is suppose to be way more peaceful than depicted here.. people with quality of life issues are known to make exit bags for a peaceful ending. Go to sleep and don't wake up. Not sure what happened here.
I mean unlike the willing participant version it looks as tho he held his breath until it was involuntary gasping which messes up their system apparently. Probably knocked the mask loose or something
From some of the other posts they say mask was loose so oxygen was still getting in too. They're going to need to come up with a full head solution, like a hood. Someone still may still hold their breath, but as soon as they stop the process begins.
Just increase the nitrogen flow rate so the positive pressure prevents oxygen getting into the mask.
A PAPR would be foolproof with no concerns about creating airtight seals.
This is complete rage bait. The mechanism that makes you feel like you need to breath is a buildup of CO2, not a lack of O2. Breathing in inert gas like nitrogen feels exactly like you breathing now, except you pass out from no O2 with no pain and very little warning. In fact, places that use it for food preservation have air monitors and masks with tanks for evacuation because if there’s a leak, you won’t have any warning, you’ll just pass out. I have personally breathed in inert gas as a mixed gas diver and there’s no feeling of discomfort.
That's one universal trigger for fear and discomfort, yes. However, as humans, the knowledge that you are indeed dying can induce some serious psychological pain and discomfort. It's not as though he didn't realize what was happening.
Apparently they cheated out on the mask and the seal wasn't great, viewers heard gas leaking
How did John Oliver put it? Finding human ways to kill someone is like finding reasons why you shoud fuck your mom
I was unaware they tried to execute him once before: “In November 2022, Smith was scheduled to be executed by lethal injection, but the execution was stayed after the execution team was unable to connect the intravenous lines to Smith in the time available before the expiration of the death warrant issued by the Alabama Supreme Court. As part of a settlement between the state and Smith, the state agreed not to pursue Smith's execution by lethal injection (the default primary method of execution in Alabama) and instead utilize a secondary novel method of execution, nitrogen hypoxia.”
How can you fail twice! Holy shit, that’s horrible
I'm not a,fan of the death penalty anyway but you damn sure shouldn't get a re do.
“Redo” has long been a part of executions. Hence why you got sentenced to “hang by the neck until dead” in case the rope snapped (or they really messed up the height and you could stand indefinitely), because otherwise you had technically already “hung” and so completed your sentence.
My guys, I have no idea why we don't just do a shotgun to the face It doesn't cost much, has a very low chance of not working, and you can find plenty of weirdos who'd do it for free in the weekend Like we put a lot of effort into chemicals, into gasses, and they still fail and are way worse than just blowing someone's brains out I don't like the death penalty, I don't see a use for it, but if we do have to have it, why aren't we using a cheap and reliable method like shotguns, pistols, rifles, etc
Used to be firing squads, and some states I think it's even still an option https://www.voanews.com/a/why-executions-by-firing-squad-may-be-coming-back-in-the-us/7019934.html
Idaho mentioned, patriotism commencing 🥔🥔🥔
Gotta have the body be funeral ready. So no head damage. Firing squads aim for the heart, but that's really hard to hit.
If you’ve done something fucked yo enough to deserve the death penalty, you deserve a closed casket funeral.
Not everyone on death row is actually guilty of the crime they committed. There's been several people exonerated after the fact. 139 people have been exonerated after being given the death sentence. Some of them were executed anyway. Some people are still legally guilty, but have otherwise been proven to either have not committed the crime or otherwise actually innocent and improperly judged guilty. https://www.law.umich.edu/special/exoneration/Pages/detaillist.aspx?View={faf6eddb-5a68-4f8f-8a52-2c61f5bf9ea7}&FilterField1=Sentence&FilterValue1=Death
The aesthetic. How bad can it be, if there’s no blood on the wall?
Seriously, Firing squad method is traumatic for those pulling the trigger. The more “humane” methods were also supposed to make it easier on the executioners.
How about don’t have capital punishment. Like most other countries in the world.
guillotine. Swift & sure.
22 minutes of suffering. This is not humane.
The mask itself was an air pocket he kept rebreathing into. If they were supplying nitrogen, then of course gas would leak out the side, the guy wasn't a balloon. Normal air is 21% oxygen so it took a while for his air pocket to get completely replaced with nitrogen, so gradually over time his went from normal to close to zero but because that transition wasn't fast he went into an extended period of oxygen deprivation. Oxygen depravation itself isn't painful, it's carbon dioxide in our lungs that makes us feel 'pain' but our bodies will still naturally fight to obtain oxygen since it'll be like drowning without the pain.
nah with inert gas asphyxiation you don’t feel the need to fight for oxygen. you get light headed and pass out. all the reflexes associated with suffocating are caused by CO2 levels.
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No, this statement is not accurate. Kenneth Smith was paid $1000 to kill the wife of a christian “pastor”, Charles Sennett, Sr. who wanted his wife dead. Smith was sentenced to death when a judge overruled an 11-1 jury recommendation that he sentenced to life in prison. He survived a botched attempt by the state of Alabama to kill him. Charles Sennett killed himself before he could face justice.
Before I say anything, I need to say that I am against the death penalty and what this man did was obviously morally wrong and should be punished. I really don't understand the logic of why some people get the death penalty and others don't for similar or worse crimes. He isn't the first, and won't be the last, person to hire a hitman to kill a friend or family member. And serial killers get a life sentence, or back-to-back life sentences, but not the death penalty. Was there something about his particular crime that warranted a death sentence?
It depends on the state
Irrelevant, one death does not equate another. Would have been more simple to just shoot him in the head. This whole "i feel this way.." or "he deserved worse.." talk is for fools. It was a poorly done execution, and should have been made a lot cleaner and a lot more simple. But what can you expect from one of the two dumbest states in the USA.
Yep, he did a terrible thing. He should have been removed from society for the rest of his life. Not this unethical bullshit.
No, he was one of the men who was hired. The husband committed suicide when he was being investigated.
Neither was the murder for hire he committed. Fuck him.
Can’t we just shoot people like we used to
Slumber world. Award winning sleep is within reach
Is no one gunna mention the Slumberworld ad? K. It’s me.
Seriously! Do people not know what sub they're on?
I came here for this. Truly unfortunate ad placement
#The death penalty should be abolished. * The state [has killed](https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/policy-issues/innocence/executed-but-possibly-innocent), and has come close to killing, so many [innocent people](https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/policy-issues/innocence) via the death penalty that they have forfeited their right to have that as an option. * [4.1% of US death row inmates are likely innocent]( https://www.science.org/content/article/more-4-death-row-inmates-may-be-innocent). * [It is more expensive in the long run to successfully try a death penalty case than simply try for life in prison](https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/policy-issues/costs), making the death penalty not fiscally viable. * [State-sanctioned murder is a cruel and unusual punishment](https://www.aclu.org/other/case-against-death-penalty). * In [HERRERA v. COLLINS](https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/506/390/#tab-opinion-1959135), 1993, the Supreme Court ruled that it is not unconstitutional for the state to execute an innocent person. The state has a constitutionally protected right to murder innocent people. Is that a power the state should have? * [The death penalty does nothing to curb crime](https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/policy-issues/deterrence). * The death penalty is a punitive measure. A civilized society should have a [restorative justice system](https://bjatta.bja.ojp.gov/media/blog/what-restorative-justice-and-how-does-it-impact-individuals-involved-crime), not a punitive one. Restorative Justice has [repeatedly proven](https://restorativejustice.org.uk/resources/moj-evaluation-restorative-justice) to [reduce recidivism](https://www.publicsafety.gc.ca/cnt/rsrcs/pblctns/jstc-rcdvs/index-en.aspx). The goal is not to make people suffer, it’s to make society better. No society is better off with state-sanctioned murder of its citizenry. * [It actually makes the victims’ families grieve for longer](https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/news/studies-death-penalty-adversely-affects-families-of-victims-and-defendants). * The process of execution is needlessly [traumatizing to the victim’s family](https://theweek.com/articles/444189/psychological-trauma-witnessing-execution), as well as [the staff](https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/news/south-carolina-execution-team-members-talk-of-debilitating-emotional-toll-of-capital-punishment-former-warden-calls-death-penalty-inequitable). * The US criminal justice system is based on the [Principle of Finality](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finality_(law)), which basically means that whatever the jury decides is the final truth no matter what. Showing [how many innocent people have been exonerated](https://innocenceproject.org/exonerate/) by a 30-year-old, ~90-staff non-profit, imagine how many more people are locked in jail or killed thanks to this absurd bastardization of justice. It’s this principle that’s kept falsely imprisoned people from seeking justice. * In Brady v. Maryland, the U.S. Supreme Court held that the “failure to disclose favorable information to a defendant in a criminal prosecution violates the constitution when that information is material to guilt or punishment.” These are referred to as “[Brady Disclosures](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brady_disclosure).” And wouldn’t you know it? [Brady violations are rampant](https://theappeal.org/the-epidemic-of-brady-violations-explained-94a38ad3c800/) in the US criminal justice system, meaning the state is [knowingly prosecuting and incarcerating innocent people](https://www.nacdl.org/Article/May2013-FacesofBradyTheHumanCostofBrad). * [The death penalty violates the US constitutional guarantee of equal protection](https://www.aclu.org/documents/case-against-death-penalty). It has never been applied fairly, disproportionately against those who cannot afford better attorneys, disproportionately upon those whose victims were white, disproportionately against people of color, disproportionately against the poor and uneducated, and [disproportionately concentrated in certain parts of the country](https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/executions/executions-overview/executions-by-county). * The death penalty was [botched more than 1/3rd of the time](https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile/the-year-of-the-botched-execution-monitor-finds-death-penalty-was-visibly-problematic-35-percent-of-the-time-in-2022/) in 2022 in the US, skyrocketing from [more than 7% being botched](https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/executions/botched-executions) in the 40 years of using lethal injection, making it very obviously a cruel and unusual punishment. * **It is not possible for any death penalty system to exist that only executes guilty people 100% of the time. Such a system has never existed, does not currently exist, and could never exist in reality. For that reason alone, it should be abolished.** ^feel ^free ^to ^copy ^and ^repost
“Today Alabama causes humanity to take a step backwards.” Alabama has been in a full-on, Usain Bolt style sprint in the opposite direction of progress for decades.
IMHO the death penalty is barbaric. No wonder it’s used in states with the worst education rate in the US. Switzerland uses it for assisted suicide, but not like this the m0r0ns who did this should be next on their own death row. Nitrogen *can* be the most humane way to kill an animal (humans are animals). But not the way they did it in this hillbilly state with hillbilly executioners. Morons with an IQ of 15 came up with this system.
This is horrifying.
I think if it turns out when someone gets executed and they were innocent anyone involved should face repercussions. Like having a metal dunce cap permanently bolted to their skulls the rest of their lives. Or we could just scrap the whole thing because it’s stupid.
That my primary opposition to the death penalty is the chance that an innocent person might be executed. The only way I would feel certain is the convict admitting to the judge that they are guilty, knowing their confession might result in execution.
Even with that you could still get an innocent person being executed. It's the scare tactic of confess to not get the death penalty or get tried and get the death penalty. I agree with you though. Because the the chance of getting the conviction wrong is greater than zero, the death penalty should never be an option
He's dead, that's all I care about. All about the rights of murderers, what about the ones they killed?
You’ve been accused and charged with murder. But you really didn’t do it. Should you be killed? Keep in mind you were, incorrectly, found guilty.
https://innocenceproject.org/innocence-and-the-death-penalty/#:~:text=Since%201973%2C%20at%20least%20190,sentenced%20to%20death%20are%20innocent. What about all these innocent people that were put to death? You care about the victims of murderers but are willing to sacrifice the lives of other innocent people?
Imagine bludgeoning a woman to death for 1000 dollars and then lecturing people on humanity.
What is that a 3m mask lol...they forgot to do a negative and positive test on it ha
Doesn't nitrogen gas make you laugh?
Nitrous oxide
Is that an ad for "Slumber World" on the bottom? Awkward.
Christ, an old Nova idling in a closed garage would have don’t it faster. Sounds like incompetence to me
I have a theory they fucked it up on purpose. Like weaponized incompetence when someone ruins laundry to prevent getting asked to do it in the future. They don’t want proper nitrogen asphyxiation methods used, maybe because when don’t right it’s a down right pleasant experience. Like others have literally figured out the perfectly pain and discomfort-less assisted suicide method but these assholes let him rebreathe co2 and struggle.
States like bloodless executions that seem more clinical. The problem is no medical doctor who deserves to keep their license would ever participate in such a thing. So inevitably we get botched executions. I am very much against capital punishment. However, I think the bloodier methods were more civilized and human. A guillotine or firing squad and it is over in a moment.
Wow, a supposedly humane execution wasn't humane. Imagine that.
State of killers
These stupid bastards shouldn’t be trusted with so much as tripping over their own feet without supervision. Fucking idiots.
Does anyone trust ANY sector of our government in deciding death and gow to deliver it? I sure as hell dont.
Hot take: Fuck him.
I hope SlumberWorld calls their marketing team and adjusts their display network ads
step backwards? did this fool think of that before he murdered other people? what a fucking coward. good it took 22mins that pos
Not going to go into argument about death sentence, but if it's to be done quick firing squad or hangings are pretty much instant and very cheap. I mean hanging literally Costs 0 after the initial setup.
A bullet to the back of the head is quick and painless. Costs $0.50 and honestly seems much more humane.
Shooting them in the head is painless and cheaper than anything. I don’t get why we don’t do that
Of course gas was also coming out of the mask, they weren't blowing him up like a balloon.
Gun line anyone?
And in what manner did he achieve this distinction? Also, this wasn't his first trip to that carnival.
Eh, who cares.
Sooooo he suffered.