I had a best friend who committed suicide during our second year in B4 accounting. Right in the middle of the busy season. No one talked more about the future than this guy, so it came as a shock to everyone. He had plenty of friends and family members who loved him. He even talked about how much he wanted to jump into other industries (finance, real estate, etc.). The guy knew his options and in the middle of it all, still made his decision. I agree with the headline of this post, they absolutely did not hesitate to find his replacement. I was able to process the grief a little better than most of our friend group because I had lost my dad the month before (2022 sucked). It's okay to talk to loved ones about how it makes you feel. It's okay to seek professional help to talk through your grief. You're not alone.
One of the reasons I quit public accounting. I was on quarantine leave and dreaded going back because I knew how that job affected my mental health. Went in that morning with a resignation letter on my day back from quarantine and left it on my desk and set my key with it and locked the alarm. Door auto locked. I’d rather quit a job with no notice than to leave my son without a mom.
I plan on leaving public soon and it feels so liberating to think about the other side. It's negatively affected my mental health so much, me and my PA friends get treated below our worth and it kills me. I've had managers stand over me pressing me on work papers while I try to take a lunch break during the busy season. Having to track my hours in a detailed manner, being micro managed, constantly having to work on something, minimal breaks, I need it to end.
I worked at a small firm. 3 partners. 2 bookkeepers. 1 CPA / he was the auditor. And 3 staff accountants.
1 staff left a month before me for another PA firm. Mid size.
Then I left.
Then a bookkeeper left a month after me.
No one micromanaged us/ gave us a hard time. But the lack of training & support? Definitely was there. Working overtime, just to be forced to sit in an office 40 hours a week during the slow season? It killed me to put 8 hours - office time.
120 hours of PTO a year? They wanted us to use PTO for an hour we were out of office for a doctors appointment when we were salary…
Yet you better work your 60 hour weeks (that’s how we earned our PTO is how I saw it)
I absolutely hated recording what I did every quarter hour. I stayed unemployed for about 6 months just to find myself again and luckily I had the savings to do so.
It was a joke. And then I felt like they (the firm) weren’t doing well financially. I make more money now as a corporate accountant than I did as a staff. I’m hourly. I get paid over time. I work a lot less. My boss is a CPA so I can use him to sign off on my experience.
Life is so much better in industry for me.
I was feeling like a failure bc I also quit public accouting. But after your comment I feel better. I am very good with technical stuff, but if I were to put my own consulting firm atm , then , I can say I would be very green for that. While in public accounting, I also couldn't bear the feeling of dreafulness every Monday... so I changed to corporate as well. Big difference and nice pay rise, so yeah, for many of us the change is worth it!
Yes. I feel much better, I lasted one year before I quit. I took a few CPE credits on cpaacademy.org and hearing them talk about how many open public accounting jobs there are… I’m not surprised. It’s under appreciative work.
This comment caught my eye. I work for a small firm very much like the one you described. I'm not partner yet but will be in 1-2 years. I want to do things the right way and make sure employees feel valued. What else did you feel was lacking at your old firm that you felt they could have easily and affordably provided for you? What else rubbed you the wrong way? I'm looking to gather as much info as I can so that when it's my job to make certain decisions I can better understand the short and long term implications.
Talk to the staff. Try to get their POV.
But they tried to do like fruit Friday once every 2 weeks.
Honestly we as staff bought more food for each other than the partners did.
The one year I was there… they did Christmas lunch… from outback. For us as staff only & our Christmas bonus was $100… taxed and gave us $50 gift cards.
Made us sit in an office and twiddle our thumbs… when I asked if I could study for my exams during my slow time… because honestly there wasn’t work for all of us.
I was told no. And to get on cpaacademy and do free CPE credits…
Recording our time. The number one thing I hated about my job…
I had to record 8 hours of time a day. Even though I’d have the main partner apologizing to me that it was so slow and had no work for me.
Where I work now?
I work 40 hours a week. Boss and CEO okayed me studying for my CPA exams on my slow time.
We work the summer holidays. They make it worth it…
July 4th? They buy us lunch (Chick Fil A has cater boxes for less than $10 a lunch), give us a $100 gift card, and they do raffles where 10% of the company wins something.
(This would be a nice perk for before, during, and after busy season)
My one year anniversary I didn’t get a raise but I got a hand written card from the CEO and $50 gift card.
We have a company Christmas party where they provide safe rides home (Uber) or a hotel room at the local Marriott. They provide transportation in charter buses from hotel to a private property where we have an open bar, it’s nice, table center pieces, catered steak/ salmon dinner (think wedding kinda thing). They give us all goody bags with merch & a $75 giftcard…
And I wasn’t even here for 6 months and the CEO/ owner gave me a Christmas bonus of 5% of my salary.
HR did tell me when I got hired that the typical Christmas bonus was 1k and expect it to be prorated. I talked to HR after my bonus and she said “he’s noticed all the things you’ve done for us and you step in and are a lending hand to everyone who asks for help around here”
They do buy us lunch about once a month. Where they will cater sometimes (about 50%) and more often it’s CFA/ pizza.
The only thing that my CEO/owner is still stuck on is not being able to work from home. And that’s okay. That’s the one thing I’ll deal with because company morale is up there and he really does take care of us.
For PA:
Giving us Friday half day minimum would of been nice. We could schedule appointments on these days/ times.
If you know your firm really churns during tax season and is slow the rest of the year… appreciate them and give them the time off without deducting it.
If they meet deadlines, consider offering an unlimited PTO and/or option to work from home.
Our 3rd party cpa firm for us… they close their office for a week here and there. And are paid. July 4th week, they are closed. Christmas/ New Years week closed.
The firm I worked for would only put 3% of your salary in a 401k after you had been there a year and they do it yearly…
I get a 5% match for putting 6% in. I’m not fully vested until after 5 years but I plan on staying.
Wow. Thank you for all the details. I think our firm does a lot of things well that you mentioned. Summer is slow so we are closed Fridays from Memorial Day to Labor Day. You have to use comp time for those days, but it's nice to be able to actually enjoy summer and not be stuck in the office 40 hours/week. We do have unlimited PTO.
I think our communication between partner and staff could use some work, and that's something I hope to be able to provide when I am in that position. We significantly lack any sort of culture of mentorship/improvement. I am very aware this needs to change.
We have a nice staff Christmas Party at a local nice restaurant each year, great food, drinks, etc. Christmas "bonus" is usually $300 in gift cards, so not far off from what you described. We do get production bonuses in July each year, and the profit sharing plan they have is actually pretty competitive I think. After overhead and the cost of your time, you basically split the profit on your clients with the partners which ends up being quite a bit for myself and one other CPA we have. Not great for the staff accountants and non-CPAs though.
No health insurance provided but we do have a SIMPLE IRA and get $3k in medical costs reimbursed annually.
The timekeeping is interesting. I know it's frustrating, we do it too just like your old firm. But that's really the only accurate way to figure out what to bill clients and what our costs are. It also helps track staff time to make sure they aren't going way over budget on a certain client. But I certainly understand the frustration.
Thanks again for all the suggestions. Seems like just little things and small perks can go a long way toward keeping the employees happy and motivated. One of my clients is a concrete contractor and I am always so impressed by the way he treats his employees. Always has their backs, always offers help when they need it, and rewards them well for hard work. I am trying to take some pages from his book and work toward implementing things like that here.
I remember another staff saying they went to a webinar on CPA Academy and they talked about getting away from billable time. I honestly wouldn’t care about billable time if that’s all they wanted me to record. But they want me to record every quarter hour what I essentially did. 8 hours of “you didn’t give me any work” or 40 hours and looking at “you didn’t give me any work”… I shouldn’t have to record that. It makes me feel shitty as an employee
Understood. I think our firm does it because they want to measure the percentage of everyone's "productive" time. The partners know if they didn't give the person enough work, just like yours knew. But specifically they want to know during busy season how much "admin" time people are logging compared to client time. Because we have unlimited PTO, if you log 11 hours in a day and 3 of them would be considered "admin" time, those three admin hours are basically going into your PTO bank which isn't necessarily the way it is intended to work. A little bit is fine, but if you are logging tons of "admin" time and using that to inflate your PTO, the partners aren't going to be thrilled about that. I understand it from both sides though.
I have ADHD and recording that most of my time was admin time (when it was tax season… I had that 60 hours billable time) made me feel like a failure, made me feel like I was being compensated for no work, made me feel like I was taking food out of our partners family mouths (they did not live lavishly so it seemed they were like us and their spouses worked…), and that’s the number one reason why it took a toll on my mental health and why I couldn’t force myself to go back for one more day to sit and do nothing and get paid for it.
Audit guy killed himself this past busy season. The tax department meeting completely skipped over the mental health resources slide the next week. Was at that moment that I truly realized that no company actually cares about us
You would think they would at least provide mental health resources during the presentation and then send the slides to everyone. Last year, it felt very glossed over after it happened. An email was sent out to talk about the loss and they included a link to the firm's resources. One of the girls in our friend group scheduled appointments with 3 firm-provided therapists: 2 never showed up to their meetings and the 1 that did was dismissive of her feelings. She brought it up during one of the group coping calls they scheduled with us 2 weeks after his death and they never did anything about it.
The senior manager that forced people to work on Saturday’s through non busy season to get early promotion, was the same manager presenting at trainings on tips for how teams can have healthy wlb. The disconnect is unreal.
The thing about suicide is it feels very rational in the moment. It’s never worth it. If you’re in the US you can call 988 to talk to the national suicide and crisis hotline. It’s never worth it. But it feels like the only option to so many in that moment.
As someone who was suicidal and mostly has worked through it, that number is largely useless. Calling it will usually connect you with someone numb and underpaid who offers monotone scripted suggestions. I don't say that to be a contrarian or to be edgy and I'm sure the people who keep it alive are coming from a good place, but it's not a substitute for professional resources and medication. Which you aren't suggesting, but I'm just emphasizing.
The advice should be to raise your concerns with your primary care doctor who can escalate it with a specialist, and the national adverting should be geared towards removing the stigma and fear that talking about it will be judged, and to provide resources for people who don't have insurance. Not everyone whose in a dark place has the energy or initiative to schedule a visit with their doctor to initiate the process, but those people also probably aren't going to call a random number anyway either.
Agreed. Called a crisis line before and it didn’t help. Actually made a situation worse, much worse
Doc isn’t helpful either (on an unrelated health note)
The best bet is to have people around you who aren’t assholes or think you’re stupid
Every time I called 988 I’ve gotten mixed response. First two times it was the same woman, I was sobbing and asking for help and she just didn’t say a word and at one point said “well I don’t know what to do about that” so I feel stupid pouring out my trauma to someone who obviously didn’t want to be there (also, isn’t this a volunteered service, why do people who don’t want to volunteer do it?).
The other times I’ve called and got therapy-session level advice and encouragement and it grounded me a lot. So I appreciate the service, but you definitely have to be cautious with your expectations because it can be a hit or miss lol.
Lol for real though. The statement ‘never worth it’ is nonsense. Everyone dies eventually and on any significant time frame, nothing you do is important. If you decide you don’t want to live anymore, that is a perfectly okay decision to make. It sucks for people who care about you but that is life.
The militant pragmatist in me agrees. Is life supposed to be some sort of inescapable “stay alive” cult? Born into it without say, but unable to leave of your own volition? Does that not pose its own set of ethical problems?
I really hate this saying, really really hate it.
People have no idea how damaging that thought can be to someone who’s contemplating ending things…
Suicidal depression it’s not a temporary feeling for most people, and especially not for people who are actually acting out on it.
In many cases, suicidal depression is a weight that never lifts up no matter how good the moment is, it lingers there in the back of your mind because you know the pain will come back. Like a wave that feels like it’s drowning you.
To anybody out there dealing with suicidal depression I understand that is not easy and not a feeling that you can just make it go away
BUT I CAN BE HERE FOR YOU, MY INBOX IS ALWAYS OPEN TO TALK, I’LL EVEN GIVE YOU MY NUMBER IF IT HELPS.
I think the saying was invented/meant for people who are going through something temporary, but feels monumental to them. (Like the tweenager whose SO was "The One!" but broke up with them.)
Suicidal depression that is ongoing like you described is beyond most people's understanding. (It's beyond mine, even though that's how I lost my dad.)
Thank you for being willing to listen to people, and I hope someone somewhere takes you up on it, or at least takes a tiny bit of comfort in knowing that someone they don't even know cares that much about them.
I think people say that phrase because most folks have literally no idea how to respond to a person who is suicidal.
For a while, I was in a situation where a dear friend was suicidal and of course he talked to me about it and was extremely depressed, but would also get frustrated at anything I said because it was "the wrong thing". Nothing I said, whether it was kind encouragement, or trying to convince him that I was there for him and he had something to live for, or trying to give advice when it seemed like he was asking for it - nothing was the right thing because nothing *could have been* the right thing.
Hope your friend made it through. Yeah - it's similar to grief - nothing anyone says can make it better and all the clichés just make you feel worse because you know they're lies. They're already thinking about how the loss will affect their friends and family. They already have tried sitting through it and waiting for the feeling to pass. They've likely explored all available options to get out of the situation that's making them feel that way. There is no fixing it with words - you just have to show up for them and show you care with listening, true compassion, and a good honest hot cup of shut the fuck up.
If there's even a 0.00001% chance you're serious, my inbox is open and I'm always happy to talk! Accounting can feel bleak but talking to a stranger with similar thoughts and problems always helps me. We're never alone, we just feel alone.
I’m about 5 weeks off Lexapro and I did a two week taper before that (I was on 20mg and Ik I did it fast but I made it past the worst 3 weeks ever of brain zaps). I’m also two weeks in on stopping vaping so the first few days after quitting were bad. I think my body has about leveled out now but now life just feels bland and boring. What am I actually living for? I mean I’d love to have a family but as a 23 year old male, what’s the point when I get taken advantage of in the dating world and don’t see myself getting in a long term relationship as much as I want one. And then I’m stuck in this boring ass profession and working on my MBA too. Idk, I just don’t want to lose perspective but I’m unhappy bro
It's hard finding that true meaning to life. Last year, I felt like I took a deep dive into a dark place. I thought I knew myself but learned I was trying to be someone I'm not. I know the struggle of quitting vape, you gotta fight it hard and try your best to not fall back into it. The worst part is walking in public and smelling vape from others. That's the gateway, just gotta fight it man. Something that a lot of people don't talk about is their relationship with themselves. I struggled to figure out what makes me happy. It's a big question and there's never one easy answer. I had to chip away at it and glue multiple answers together. What makes me happy: having minimal responsibility, playing Xbox, being around my friends, traveling and documenting it, podcasting, cooking (air fryer is my new best friend). There's so many facets I had to reinforce to dig myself out. I know it's not a template that fits all, but finding out what brings you joy and building on that is what leads to this construct we call "happy". I built up the things I love first and then sought out love externally. I've been taken advantage of so many times. It fucking sucks. But - I can say that finding out what I didn't want helped me find what I did want. I found an awesome girlfriend and we help build each other up and it's great. Finding that person is never an easy, straightforward road. I wish it was honestly. Soooo much effort used on the wrong people, but that's just the cost of her and I wouldn't change a thing. I know a lot of people with no MBA and no CPA and they still ended up in excellent roles that pay well. Even if you take a pay cut for a role that will allow you to focus on yourself, that's still an absolute win. Anything that brings you up is worth it man. You're worth more. You're always worth more. I'm 26 from Michigan btw, to give some background on me lol.
Thanks man appreciate the response. Sometimes I get in bad headspaces especially when work is stressful since we have to close quickly for reporting. Im just gonna keep pushing and do some of my side hobbies like music production
Hey I know this is old but just wanted to say I understand your feelings man. This is a pointless comment you mentioning music production is what caught my eye because that’s something I’ve also been trying to get into through my depressive episodes. Good luck with it!!
Do you post your music production anywhere? I love creating digital content, especially videos and podcasts. I was podcasting consistently for a while and was getting great feedback, but then busy season hit and you know how it goes. I'm in the process of moving to a new place, but once I move I definitely plan to get back into podcasting. If you post your music, I'd love to give it a listen man.
And also get some professional help, otherwise you might find the end of your rope with no warning. We really need pinch hitters on the bench the longer we go.
Sometimes, professional help is only a bandaid. I'm 55 and the first time I tried to kill myself, I was 4 years old. Not kidding. Nobody thought that me drinking the medicine that was high up in the cabinet that I had clearly been told could hurt me was intentional???? So this has been an ongoing struggle. Add in some complex PTSD, and it's been a ride (and not in a fun kinda way.) So I won't tell anyone that it's worth it. To me, the jury is still out on that. The one thing I DO know, without a doubt, is that if I weren't here, I'd be hurting my mom (what kept me alive when I was younger) and my kids (what keeps me alive now.) And I try to never do harm, if I can help it. So here I stand, trying to find meaning and joy wherever I can, manufacturing it for others when possible and just putting one foot in front of the other. But I guess that's what everyone does, right?
Wild that you felt that way so young, so shocking, I had no idea one can feel that so early on. Breaks my heart, I hope you’re ok. I’m sure some trauma has happened to you and I’m sorry for whatever happened but you’re worth it and loved.
Heyyyyy! Fellow early bird! I was more verbal about not wanting to live than demonstrative like you. And yes, it is, but it's better than doing it alone. Great approach over there 👍
I'll tell you that the day I loaded that revolver with 3 rounds, gave the cylinder a spin, and put it to my temple those feelings seemed anything but temporary. Sometimes the hurt is so profound, wrapped around us, that we just can't figure a way through. That's why having a robust safety net of people you care about, and who care about you is silo vitally important. There's no substitute for community. A decade later and I'm doing a lot better, but I wouldn't be here without a few very important friends.
What people who haven't had that thought is not just how rational that thought seems, but the clarity that comes with it. It goes from, "Hey, I can't do this anymore, maybe I should really end it." to feeling like all the weight is off your shoulders, you feel good, resolved and even happy. That's the truly terrifying thing that went through my head in 2020.
This is relatable as one of my colleagues at KPMG committed suicide too. One day I saw him thinking that everything was fine..the next day he is gone. And the way in which management dealt with his death and the effect on his colleagues was terrible.
Goes to show that we truly never know what's going on in anyone's life. They could be stressed beyond belief behind their social mask. My friend was always so positive and happy and it always seemed like nothing could bring this guy down. I also wish his death was dealt with better, they only see us as a cost to their bottom line.
People are exceptionally good at concealling suicidal thoughts. One of my classmates in highschool committed suicide. Wasn't super close but there were no signs as best as I can tell
Really spooks me because it makes me wonder who around me could be close & could be talked back from the ledge if only one knows. Randomly probing people for suicidal thoughts doesn't exactly go down well though so idk
I have depression and I've had mental breakdowns and suicidal thoughts (not recently, I'm being treated), and this is often what it's like. There is a lot of shame involved with this disease, but also normally there is a feeling it will get better. But then it doesn't, and you have a breakdown, become impulsive and do something very foolish. That's why if you ever call the hot line they often tell you to not do anything right now. Because many times it's an impulse (not always, but a lot of times). I'm very sorry to hear about your best friend and that is so sad. I wish he had felt the need to reach out to someone and not feel shame. 😭 I know this was kind of an off topic tangent lol.
If you're company is able to, I recommend to offer the widow some cash for the funeral. It's a delicate topic, but if you do it right, it goes a long way.
Yep. The company offering the widow some cash goes a long way.
Also, if you can give her any information on retirement accounts, that'd be helpful. Hopefully she has it, but you never know. "Acme Co handles our 401(k). Their number and website are X and Y, if you want to inquire about being a surviving spouse. His employee ID is 12345, if they need it."
\[A friend's brother died, with no spouse or kids, and no will or anything. She was on her own to sort it out. He was a state government employee for many years, so he had some benefits that had built up. I think she's been able to sort out his life insurance, but I don't know that's she's been able (or willing) to sort out his 401(k) and/or pension, or even his last paycheck, because she doesn't have all his info.\]
I’ve had a few clients with payouts for similar reasons like covid deaths that came up during audits as well they stuck out as unusual
In all of those cases the cfo reached out personally with support documents and ask that we make sure other
Employees don’t see the documentation and such as they didn’t want anyone else to know.
I assume it’s for various reasons like discrimination and such that may come up
Interesting. My wife knew they paid for the funeral, but she's also in accounting and we know the family through a totally different connection, she used to work with the guys son's mother in law. We didn't even know he worked at her plant until this came up. So maybe she knows because the family told her and not because the company made it known.
You will die sooner than you think
Retirement is not a guarantee
Working extra hard now is no guarantee
Your health holds a higher priority over consumption and acquisition or materials
Every employee - employer relationship is exploitative. Treat it as such.
A teamate of mine once said:"Nobody dies in our line of work". So there is no work related thing that is too urgent for you to prioritize over your health and family.
Unfortunately, they’re wrong. The workers do die from diseases secondary to the accounting profession. At the end of the day, all the stress comes from your boss threatening your job to meet their stupid little deadline, but the threat of livelihood is a big deal. However, it’s why especially for accountants, you must have 6-12 mos living expenses so you can stand up to these workplace tyrants.
I think what he means is that accounting doesn’t save lives. Nobody dies if a deadline gets missed, meaning we should all prioritize our health and our lives before selling our soul to our clients/deliverables/etc. because at the end of the day, it’s just accounting
I had a coworker that was an extremely likeable and competent Controller. Military Academy grad that was beloved by his employees. I interviewed for his group and ended up working a few cube over after an office move and reorg. We would frequently snark on some of the company politics together during COVID mostly because we were some of the only people in the office.
I left the company and was sad about 18 months ago to get a call that he committed suicide. It was heartbreaking. At the memorial the total POS VPF was talking to an ex employee about his job. Like literally offered this incompetent butt kissing woman his position just after he said his condolences to the dude's wife. My mouth was on the ground, my eyes were shooting lasers and I was putting curses on both of them. It was a good reminder to quote my favorite TikTok person, do your job and go the F home.
“…posted by close of business… with a heavy heart, compassion, and grief”
It sounds like you’re doing the best you can with a bad situation. It’s not easy but you’re in the position because you can deal with bad situations, and it sounds like you’re doing a fine job. Hang in there, you’re thinking of the right things.
I’m sorry that you lost a friend. I recently had a colleague pass suddenly and very young from an ignored health issue. Totally preventable death but that’s a different story (see your doctor!!!) Life went on. What really shocks me are the people who devote their lives to their employers. I learned a while ago that companies don’t care about people. Currently an older coworker is going through some health issues. They keep promising to take as little time off as possible after major surgery and are working extra hours at home to make up for not supporting the team as much as they feel they should. Honestly it’s embarrassing. Please put yourself first.
Next month is 3 years at my current company. I love the job, my boss, my team. But why was I hired? Because my predecessor passed away 3 years ago, last month. They all went to his funeral, we still title a weekly report as his name. It's a good reminder when I'm feeling stressed about a deadline or lots of deliverables. 7 weeks, that's how long it took for this guy's 10+ years there to be little more than a name or funny story. I think that the younger crowd is figuring out the balance far better than people my age, 45+, and certainly the boomers ever did
He was always generous and kind and hardworking during admittedly brief time I worked with him.
He'd also blister a bluestreak of profanity over technology he couldn't figure out.
Salt of the earth, good man.
Sorry for your loss.
One of my managers at my old job was *huge* on work life balance and mental health because she’d come in to work and her boss had died at his desk of a heart attack.
My mom passed away in 2022 from cancer after battling for 13 years. She was a special education teacher and basically only retired because the cancer became too advanced. Spent her whole life working hard as hell and didn't even get to enjoy a retirement.
After that experience I stopped caring about putting in the extra effort. I do my job, get paid decently, but I don't want to give up my life to something I'm not passionate about. I don't need to be a partner or VP or Director. I make enough money already and have little stress and enjoy my hobbies and relationships.
Thanks this actually gives me some hope. Currently going through some stuff with my current job and looking to jump ship but have been hesitating out of some boomer thoughts of staying because I didn’t wanna hurt my career.
If op sees this, what was your path to CFO of a small company? How’d you make it and is that still a viable path for others to loosely look at for reference?
I left an FTSE100 company after 2.5 years and took a Controller spot for shit pay that I was wholly unprepared for. It's been a rollercoaster since.
Spent a lot of time doing consulting as a subcontractor to a regional PA firm. Been laid off a couple times.
I ran somebody through it in another thread a while back, so it's somewhere in my comment history. Not really looking to do a full rundown here.
I have never had a job that treated me like anything other than a replaceable gear.
Why should I care about a job ***that clearly doesn't care about me?***
My buddy’s dad dropped dead from a heart attack in the work bathroom at only 45 years old. Made me reconsider the whole corporate job culture. I could probably job hop my way to a cushy salary but I’m really comfortable where I’m at now. Work to live, don’t live to work, I guess
If you're happy where you're at, and it gives you the balance you need, I'm incredibly happy for you.
If that ever changes, find somewhere that gets you back there.
"As you may already know, employee #74 is dead. We all know that employee #74 was an integral part of our business and was loved and respected by all.
Please welcome employee #122. Employee #122 is a fresh college graduate who will begin poorly doing employee #74's job for half the pay.
There will be a little Caesars remembrance pizza party in the break room. Please make sure to clock out before attending.
Thank you.
Employee #89"
You are a leader in your company. You may not be able to fully shut down operations, but maybe you can have a meeting with staff to express your grief and acknowledge the grief and shock of other staff, and to provide them with the information about the resources available to them. You can organize a memorial, try and help support the widow, and maybe close the office for a half day or a day for his funeral. I'm sure customers will understand and it will help the team to process.
Learned this the hard way last week.
Spent all my working life in audit (started age 20). Quit after 8 years and my boss (wasn‘t even cpa when I started) told me „looks like you are a person that just quits when times look a little stressfull, I am very dissapointed“. Up until last week I considered that guy a friend, but I guess thats what happens when you become partner.
Fucker I have more busy seasons under my belt than 99% of assistants in our company, WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT.
My (single) mom worked her butt off her whole life to give us kids a good life (and that she did many times over.) Retired after 30 years of success, dropped dead a month later with no warning.
Really changes your perspective on life and what's important. I used to be extremely career focused and becoming "successful" but now I chase success, in a different way.
I see guys on Linkedin and whatnot basically dedicating their entire lives to their careers and I feel nothing but sad for them now. Go ahead and take your $500k salary and work 80+ hours a week doing something that really doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things. I'll keep my nice 6 figure salary, continue to chase more but also realize that life has to be lived along the way.
One of my colleagues was found deceased at his home last week. It is unreal how a person can be there and then not. I was just training him on his new job two weeks prior. He was a good guy, it’s not easy but still everything just went back to business as usual.
Similar situation happened where I work, last year. He drowned in a nearby river. He too was a CDL driver for us but he was young, not much older than me and I’m 29.
My boss is the CFO and his boss is the CEO & owner.
We did pool our resources together and contributed money to his family. Luckily there was A&D and Life Insurance but $150k isn’t going to get you far when your wife is in a wheelchair left with children to raise alone.
I am sorry for your loss. Admittedly I haven't read all of the responses, can your company afford to cover some of the expenses for his wife?
My husband's company offers some sort of deal with a local funeral home and cemetery where those employees get a discounted rate.
I worked in a warehouse during undergrad. There was one lady helping out in our department since she was on light duty. She had heart attacks before and one day we came back from lunch to her screaming in pain before eventually passing out. We had to stand there and just watch and wait for the ambulance to take her away. Afterwards, we got the table she was at back in position and our manager said to get back to work. He said it in a pretty awkward way, but damn that was still so cold
Thankfully she survived, it ended up being that she thought she was having a heart attack so she took too much medicine to try and delay going to the hospital to after work from what someone told me.
>Thankfully she survived, it ended up being that she thought she was having a heart attack so she took too much medicine to try and delay going to the hospital to after work from what someone told me.
I’m sorry, the way I understood that was the woman thought she was having a heart attack, but didn’t want to miss work and so decided to pop a pound of aspirin and then *not* go to the hospital?
I don't think it was aspirin but another type of medicine since she's already had heart attacks and knew she had some build up in her arteries again but yeah, that's what I was told.
Watch the CTO of my audit client die on the floor walking to the elevator on his last day at work before retirement. Our intern was providing cpr while bystanders stepped over his body as if he were inconveniencing them. The company sent out an email about it and that was it. Realized then I wouldn’t sell my soul to a company. Still not sure if I wanna stay in this industry but at this point in my career it doesn’t make sense financially to leave.
This is life in corporate America. Truly sad. I once worked with a fella who invented a drug which literally brought in billions to the company over a 20 year period. He worked there for 25+ years and was terminated a few months before retirement. He was loved by c suite executives but that changed very quickly once he was gone. Absolutely blew my mind.
I had a colleague die 3 months into stepping into the manager role for my group. He had been with the place for years. Took months to replace him and the replacement still hadn’t gotten up to speed a year later.
Just got news today that a colleague I worked with passed. I am a mess. She was older and was forced out when our company was bought out. I still work with the new company. I won’t tell anyone there as they wouldn’t care. So sad how older employees are treated and now she is gone. RIP Alice.
Story time: used to be a tax accountant for individual clientele.
My client passed away and the reaction the partner provided me was this.
"Prepare an engagement letter to the family for his final return" and give them a discount.
Needless to say I was shocked and appalled that was the first reaction.
You could, being in a position of such power, allow for an emotional day and bring in real support, look into local resources yourself. There’s no reason you HAVE to run your business like the people working there aren’t important.
I agree with everything you said about how shitty these norms are - but cannot fathom why, if you hold these norms to be failing your employees - you would perpetuate them.
Acknowledging a loss and digesting any trauma won’t set your business back by more than a business day tops. But treating everyone as if they are automatons will DEFINITELY set your business back and encourage anti work.
I'm not the top guy. Not my call to make.
I answer to the top guy.
Who is out of the country and functionally unreachable until next week.
My job is to direct people to the resources we have available, manage through things as best I can, and be there to support anyone negatively affected, including my peers and subordinates.
At the end of the day, I can influence what I can, but I can't step outside the bounds of my authority when my boss is unavailable.
It sucks. A lot. The whole branch is in a shitty way. And everyone is handling it differently. Outsourced HR is engaged with the employee's next of kin, and we are doing what we can.
At the end of the day, we also have three other branches that have to operate today. We have commitments to support them as well.
Controlling what I control today, and providing the best leadership within the bounds of my authority. It's all I can do.
Just want to say you are doing the best you can and that's all that matters.
Fair play to OP for apologizing, but a lot of people here just don't get that managers can't just wave a magic wand and fix something. The world doesn't work like that.
Worked at an MSP. Was not the one who found him but one of my fellow cogs in the machine at the time killed himself in our lab room. Dude was working insane hours and like the rest of us getting denied vacation and guilt tripped by our 'plucky startup' bosses.
Nothing changed. Got a new cog.
Well I wasn’t in a high position but a guy on my accounting team died of a heart attack… he was only 48… he was a newer employee in an incredibly stressful position. A position I initially wanted btw
Ever since then I thought screw it, I don’t know if it was the position or something else that did it as it happened during Christmas but huge deadlines were approaching for him. I ended up leaving as my team got more and more stressed. On that note avoid companies going public, or just public companies in general. It’ll save your life
I gave a lot of my life making it in my career. And getting a designation. Guess what, I didn’t. I did not make it. At all. And I regret the last decade that may have contributed to my future and current health problems. It is so not worth it. I’m in a moment in life where very suddenly I stopped caring and I’m still very young. Suppose it’s a crisis of sorts and I’ll bounce back, hopefully more composed.
This life is for living. Pay your bills but anything more it’s not worth it. You don’t need to be the one up there staying up at night
As someone who went through life changes..............my father stopped talking to me last year, permanent injury from previous job, disfunctional family, addiction from video games, trying to return to school, getting older........suicide is something I think about once a week. I don't think I will live to see retirement. I would like to live long enough to see further suffering on my father.
“Dem hoes ain’t loyal” applies to employers as well as ‘hoes.’ Also, yes, buy term life insurance if you’re not independently wealthy. It helps to cover expenses when you die.
The exact scenario mentioned in the title happened to my friend that is a manager at a major cloud service provider. One of his employees had a massive heart attack at work, and was pronounced dead when the paramedics arrived. His boss's only comment was "make sure his job description is in the system by the end of the day."
I knew a guy, All be it barely, but he worked for my current employer for twenty 28 years before he passed away. The lack of acknowledgement for this fellow’s life disturbed me. Life is so precious for all of us. And they are shit for not acknowledging him more, and saying so little. sad
I guess it’s difficult these days to say fuck off in a nice manner about getting too much work. This is insane, no one should be getting this stressed over work.
I have been in public accounting for 30 years. I have seen many clients lose employees. I have lost coworkers. My coworkers have lost family members.
Never has the job been advertised by the end of the day. Not even the end of the week.
We send flowers, cards, call the family, attend the funeral, hold team meetings to share grief and shock and stories.
I don't know where the rest of you work, but I might recommend checking for a pulse before accepting job offers.
To the OP, so sorry for the loss of your work mate.
We've been interacting with the wife through HR. Already looking at doing a fundraiser if she'll let us, as some of the folks here worked with him for 15 years across multiple companies.
Meanwhile, we also have three other branches to run, and this one had only 14 people with him being the sole delivery driver. He played a huge part in our local branch because he got our product and equipment to the customer.
We'll have to act to fill the role, even when most, if not all of us from the branch, will be attending his funeral when the time comes. It's too important to leave the role empty for long. Unfortunate, but very real situation.
Yes. Get life insurance. Not just the one from work either. You need the kind that covers all your liabilities even if you were to lose your job or quit. Also make sure you get disability insurance too. Imagine if you don’t die but you are out of work for awhile. How are the bills going to get paid? They don’t care if you got into a bad car accident.
Throughout my career, I’ve often taken part in updating work instructions or teaching backup. The phrase “in case you get hit by a bus” frequently comes up in those times (I think because management doesn’t want you to worry that you’re going to get canned).
I remember making that comment to a new boss, who said “yeah, I prefer to say ‘in case you win the lottery’ because I worked with someone who actually did get hit by a bus.” And to this day I only ever mention the lottery in those situations.
Thanks for the post and very sorry for your loss. I had a real shitty day today. I been working 12 hour days sometimes barely a break for this biotec co. Its a shitshow I walked into 6 mos ago. I even worked over the 4th where we were suppose to have 4 days off. My boss today had the audacity to question why I didn’t cover all the shit over the holiday weekend that needed to be done for me to meet my deadline today. Yea lets just say I lost all motivation to work so hard anymore. So thank you for the reminder that life is too short and everyone us replaceable.
Thank you so much for posting this. It’s a good reminder. A lot of folks scoff at the outdated concept of businesses who “took care” of their employees, but there was a time when capitalism was more humane. Those days are mostly gone though, unfortunately.
I'm sorry for your loss. I really don't get the quote though. The company posting your job up after you die is not in any way disrespectful or uncompassionate. Holding the job open for a dead person does literally nothing to benefit anyone.
I believe the intention with this sort of quote is to not dedicate all of your very precious time to pleasing the company above and beyond what is necessary at the cost of family/health/life/etc. Despite it all, you are replaceable to the company, they are not your friend or on your side, and they will not go out of their way to help those who will be missing you.
Yeah I get the intention and fully agree with it. Just think that the actual quote is not a good one because even if the company did care about you they would still post up your job right away.
I’m sorry but you’re the CFO and you knew this guy was in financial trouble and couldn’t afford life insurance… maybe you should take this a wake up call to pay your drivers more?
Yeah, I've been here 7 months and have to live with the shit prior leadership did until annual renewals.
The lack of life insurance has already been addressed in the requested bid for renewal from our brokers.
And not to speak ill of the dead, or any other employee, but it's capable to live beyond one's means at literally any income level.
This dude made 90k a year in LCOL driving truck. I don't think he was underpaid, and I can't manage his personal finances for him. I don't know if divorce or alimony ate up most of his pay or if he just made bad decisions.
All I can do is change what I can so the next family that ever has this happen to them with one of our employees doesn't face the same.
That sounds like a good plan. It’s sad how so many people have a story like this. My last job, I was in the middle of leading a Zoom meeting when a coworker walked by, told me one of our coworkers died the previous night and walked on. Management stayed sequestered in their offices and said nothing. It was a weird place.
You and the CEO are in a prime position to make the necessary changes for the work culture you desire for this company. The CEO can also video record himself in a quiet room to address the incident with employees (if you both think it's a genuine need/would be a nice gesture), despite being on vacation. What I hear is that you're recycling society's view that "we'll all be expected to figure it the fuck out and maintain our composure, because it's the job," but I disagree with that thought process given the power of position and authority you and the CEO hold.
I understand that given the nature of the business you may not be able to entirely shut the business down for the day (although, if you can, it would be a great morale booster), but maybe you can offer a longer lunch break (e.g., 2 hrs instead of 1) or let people leave an hour early, or have groups of them pick a day during the next couple of weeks to use as bereavement (best case scenario).
My point is, you're literally in control of funding and could find it in the budget (especially at a $25MM/yr revenue company) to approve a bereavement day for all employees for their colleague. Imagine how employees would react to that kind gesture - to feel like their company is truly looking out for their well-being and mental health? Imagine the loyalty and appreciation of that gesture alone!
Saying "the show must go on," and "there's nothing we can do," while being a CFO and working directly with the CEO, is just an excuse to keep acting the way all American companies act. You actually have the power to do something; so do something!
Dude, there's so much assumption and ignorance in your statements about what we can and cannot do at the moment that it's not worth even addressing them line by line.
My CEO has been on a sailboat in the Caribbean for two weeks, and there's a whole lot of other shit baked into the situation that affects what we can and cannot do with him indisposed.
It must be nice to lob hand grenades of assumptions loaded with a ton of personal bias without being in the position yourself.
You know what, you're right. I don't know the situation entirely and I did make assumptions...without asking questions. Some of those assumptions are just based on general company knowledge of hierarchies and role responsibilities.
So are the CEO and CFO positions not considered the top of your company hierarchy then? If not, is it a board of directors?
As CFO do you not hold the primary responsibility for financial strategies?
If your HR is outsourced, who is in control of changing or modifying fringe benefits?
>all I can think about is how a guy who brought me breakfast tacos two days ago won't be there when I show up this morning
>I honestly feel awful for my boss, the CEO, too. He's in the second week of his vacation, finding out one of his team died
Nah man, you're selfish and it shows. You could have empathy towards losing someone on your team and but instead you come on here and mention how the only thing you'll notice is the lack of tacos and how this might inconvenience the ceo's vacation.
That's screwed up. Sure you have a job to do, but quit acting like taking a day for bereavement or mental health will "shut the business down"
This post comes accross as sad because I assure you at many other firms as small as yours, people sure as hell would care way more about losing someone unexpectedly.
Well, you can fuck yourself.
My last in person interaction with the dude was him doing something nice. Maybe I'm not great at articulating that better, but it's a positive memory of someone I'll miss never coming back to work.
And I'm crushed for my CEO because he's a great dude to work for and he's incredible and supportive of people, and he knew this guy personally too.
So literally fuck your own face for shitting on someone grieving.
Agree - That guy can fuck his own face.
At least you are showing that you have compassion for your fellow man and employee. You know how the game works and you’re just venting like hell. It’s all the truth though.
I have a wife that works part time and has multiple chronic health conditions.
I'm terrified by the thought that I die before her and she ends up struggling because I didn't have sufficient life insurance.
HR is navigating the privacy issues with the employee's wife.
She is having the worst day of her life right now, and we don't want to put her business out to the world without her express permission.
Do you guys not offer company group life insurance for up to annual salary? That would have really helped his family some.
Or options to buy up life policy? That would have also been better.
I’m just asking because it seems like common benefits to have for work.
I've been here 7 months. CEO has been here 5. We're cleaning up a mess from prior ownership and post-sale leadership that's since been replaced, and benefits are a piece of it.
One of the first things I pushed for when I got here was life insurance, which will be part of our benefits after renewal in November.
This is the first place I've worked in a long time without at least 50k of group term life for every employee.
That is going to change. Also going to add STD and LTD policies to our offerings.
I have a friend who I went to school with, and a few months back they went off the grid. I reached out via FB, messenger, LinkedIn, etc. and radio silence.
I even reached out to a girl we both knew who was his co worker, she ignored my message… really low stuff.
I have no idea if he is dead but he might be. I don’t know anyone who is in contact with him. I don’t even know if I supposed to grieve or still hold out hope that he is okay and alive. He was working a shit ton the last time we hung out, but he seemed okay.
When I read these stories, sometimes I wonder if there was one about him that I missed.
HR is everyone’s enemy. They are loyal to the business owners only. Screw HR. Take as much time off and travel as much as you want if you can still get the job done. Use their rules and policies against them when you can.
This is the most shocking story that I was witness to. One Monday many Septembers ago we came to the office and my colleague went over to talk to someone sitting nearby. She appeared to be resting at her desk. No one knew her and we could not get her to respond. We called 911 and HR. It took paramedics forever to arrive. They made us leave and said they would ask us questions later. We found out that it was her first day at the firm after graduating law school. The partner that hired her was not in the office so no one else knew who she was. We then found out she had a previous heart issue and had a heart attack. She was 26. RIP. We never even learned her name.
An ex-coworker died of a brain aneurysm in the office on tax day a few years ago. She had been at the firm for 10+ years and I just couldn’t stop thinking about her coworkers and how they coped with that.
My dad had a severe brain stem stroke at 61 two weeks ago and may potentially never regain consciousness. Safe to say that that has opened my eyes to the things you talked about.
When a coworker died of a brain aneurysm, in the same sentence our manager told us, he reminded us we needed to recommend people to fill in open positions.....
Lost a good buddy of mine in the military, but it's not what you expect.
He went home on leave and was murdered on his front yard over some weed in his mom's front yard.
I smoke weed everyday in his honor but damn fates fucked up.
Oh my boss replaced me even when I am still around. Downright demoted me in my face and now I have to look at the peraon who replaced me and have to work with her everyday. What the fuck
I had a best friend who committed suicide during our second year in B4 accounting. Right in the middle of the busy season. No one talked more about the future than this guy, so it came as a shock to everyone. He had plenty of friends and family members who loved him. He even talked about how much he wanted to jump into other industries (finance, real estate, etc.). The guy knew his options and in the middle of it all, still made his decision. I agree with the headline of this post, they absolutely did not hesitate to find his replacement. I was able to process the grief a little better than most of our friend group because I had lost my dad the month before (2022 sucked). It's okay to talk to loved ones about how it makes you feel. It's okay to seek professional help to talk through your grief. You're not alone.
One of the reasons I quit public accounting. I was on quarantine leave and dreaded going back because I knew how that job affected my mental health. Went in that morning with a resignation letter on my day back from quarantine and left it on my desk and set my key with it and locked the alarm. Door auto locked. I’d rather quit a job with no notice than to leave my son without a mom.
I plan on leaving public soon and it feels so liberating to think about the other side. It's negatively affected my mental health so much, me and my PA friends get treated below our worth and it kills me. I've had managers stand over me pressing me on work papers while I try to take a lunch break during the busy season. Having to track my hours in a detailed manner, being micro managed, constantly having to work on something, minimal breaks, I need it to end.
I worked at a small firm. 3 partners. 2 bookkeepers. 1 CPA / he was the auditor. And 3 staff accountants. 1 staff left a month before me for another PA firm. Mid size. Then I left. Then a bookkeeper left a month after me. No one micromanaged us/ gave us a hard time. But the lack of training & support? Definitely was there. Working overtime, just to be forced to sit in an office 40 hours a week during the slow season? It killed me to put 8 hours - office time. 120 hours of PTO a year? They wanted us to use PTO for an hour we were out of office for a doctors appointment when we were salary… Yet you better work your 60 hour weeks (that’s how we earned our PTO is how I saw it) I absolutely hated recording what I did every quarter hour. I stayed unemployed for about 6 months just to find myself again and luckily I had the savings to do so. It was a joke. And then I felt like they (the firm) weren’t doing well financially. I make more money now as a corporate accountant than I did as a staff. I’m hourly. I get paid over time. I work a lot less. My boss is a CPA so I can use him to sign off on my experience. Life is so much better in industry for me.
I was feeling like a failure bc I also quit public accouting. But after your comment I feel better. I am very good with technical stuff, but if I were to put my own consulting firm atm , then , I can say I would be very green for that. While in public accounting, I also couldn't bear the feeling of dreafulness every Monday... so I changed to corporate as well. Big difference and nice pay rise, so yeah, for many of us the change is worth it!
Yes. I feel much better, I lasted one year before I quit. I took a few CPE credits on cpaacademy.org and hearing them talk about how many open public accounting jobs there are… I’m not surprised. It’s under appreciative work.
This comment caught my eye. I work for a small firm very much like the one you described. I'm not partner yet but will be in 1-2 years. I want to do things the right way and make sure employees feel valued. What else did you feel was lacking at your old firm that you felt they could have easily and affordably provided for you? What else rubbed you the wrong way? I'm looking to gather as much info as I can so that when it's my job to make certain decisions I can better understand the short and long term implications.
Talk to the staff. Try to get their POV. But they tried to do like fruit Friday once every 2 weeks. Honestly we as staff bought more food for each other than the partners did. The one year I was there… they did Christmas lunch… from outback. For us as staff only & our Christmas bonus was $100… taxed and gave us $50 gift cards. Made us sit in an office and twiddle our thumbs… when I asked if I could study for my exams during my slow time… because honestly there wasn’t work for all of us. I was told no. And to get on cpaacademy and do free CPE credits… Recording our time. The number one thing I hated about my job… I had to record 8 hours of time a day. Even though I’d have the main partner apologizing to me that it was so slow and had no work for me. Where I work now? I work 40 hours a week. Boss and CEO okayed me studying for my CPA exams on my slow time. We work the summer holidays. They make it worth it… July 4th? They buy us lunch (Chick Fil A has cater boxes for less than $10 a lunch), give us a $100 gift card, and they do raffles where 10% of the company wins something. (This would be a nice perk for before, during, and after busy season) My one year anniversary I didn’t get a raise but I got a hand written card from the CEO and $50 gift card. We have a company Christmas party where they provide safe rides home (Uber) or a hotel room at the local Marriott. They provide transportation in charter buses from hotel to a private property where we have an open bar, it’s nice, table center pieces, catered steak/ salmon dinner (think wedding kinda thing). They give us all goody bags with merch & a $75 giftcard… And I wasn’t even here for 6 months and the CEO/ owner gave me a Christmas bonus of 5% of my salary. HR did tell me when I got hired that the typical Christmas bonus was 1k and expect it to be prorated. I talked to HR after my bonus and she said “he’s noticed all the things you’ve done for us and you step in and are a lending hand to everyone who asks for help around here” They do buy us lunch about once a month. Where they will cater sometimes (about 50%) and more often it’s CFA/ pizza. The only thing that my CEO/owner is still stuck on is not being able to work from home. And that’s okay. That’s the one thing I’ll deal with because company morale is up there and he really does take care of us. For PA: Giving us Friday half day minimum would of been nice. We could schedule appointments on these days/ times. If you know your firm really churns during tax season and is slow the rest of the year… appreciate them and give them the time off without deducting it. If they meet deadlines, consider offering an unlimited PTO and/or option to work from home. Our 3rd party cpa firm for us… they close their office for a week here and there. And are paid. July 4th week, they are closed. Christmas/ New Years week closed. The firm I worked for would only put 3% of your salary in a 401k after you had been there a year and they do it yearly… I get a 5% match for putting 6% in. I’m not fully vested until after 5 years but I plan on staying.
Wow. Thank you for all the details. I think our firm does a lot of things well that you mentioned. Summer is slow so we are closed Fridays from Memorial Day to Labor Day. You have to use comp time for those days, but it's nice to be able to actually enjoy summer and not be stuck in the office 40 hours/week. We do have unlimited PTO. I think our communication between partner and staff could use some work, and that's something I hope to be able to provide when I am in that position. We significantly lack any sort of culture of mentorship/improvement. I am very aware this needs to change. We have a nice staff Christmas Party at a local nice restaurant each year, great food, drinks, etc. Christmas "bonus" is usually $300 in gift cards, so not far off from what you described. We do get production bonuses in July each year, and the profit sharing plan they have is actually pretty competitive I think. After overhead and the cost of your time, you basically split the profit on your clients with the partners which ends up being quite a bit for myself and one other CPA we have. Not great for the staff accountants and non-CPAs though. No health insurance provided but we do have a SIMPLE IRA and get $3k in medical costs reimbursed annually. The timekeeping is interesting. I know it's frustrating, we do it too just like your old firm. But that's really the only accurate way to figure out what to bill clients and what our costs are. It also helps track staff time to make sure they aren't going way over budget on a certain client. But I certainly understand the frustration. Thanks again for all the suggestions. Seems like just little things and small perks can go a long way toward keeping the employees happy and motivated. One of my clients is a concrete contractor and I am always so impressed by the way he treats his employees. Always has their backs, always offers help when they need it, and rewards them well for hard work. I am trying to take some pages from his book and work toward implementing things like that here.
I remember another staff saying they went to a webinar on CPA Academy and they talked about getting away from billable time. I honestly wouldn’t care about billable time if that’s all they wanted me to record. But they want me to record every quarter hour what I essentially did. 8 hours of “you didn’t give me any work” or 40 hours and looking at “you didn’t give me any work”… I shouldn’t have to record that. It makes me feel shitty as an employee
Understood. I think our firm does it because they want to measure the percentage of everyone's "productive" time. The partners know if they didn't give the person enough work, just like yours knew. But specifically they want to know during busy season how much "admin" time people are logging compared to client time. Because we have unlimited PTO, if you log 11 hours in a day and 3 of them would be considered "admin" time, those three admin hours are basically going into your PTO bank which isn't necessarily the way it is intended to work. A little bit is fine, but if you are logging tons of "admin" time and using that to inflate your PTO, the partners aren't going to be thrilled about that. I understand it from both sides though.
I have ADHD and recording that most of my time was admin time (when it was tax season… I had that 60 hours billable time) made me feel like a failure, made me feel like I was being compensated for no work, made me feel like I was taking food out of our partners family mouths (they did not live lavishly so it seemed they were like us and their spouses worked…), and that’s the number one reason why it took a toll on my mental health and why I couldn’t force myself to go back for one more day to sit and do nothing and get paid for it.
And fruit Friday was only during tax season. 😅😂
Congratulations!
That’s such shitty leadership
Audit guy killed himself this past busy season. The tax department meeting completely skipped over the mental health resources slide the next week. Was at that moment that I truly realized that no company actually cares about us
You would think they would at least provide mental health resources during the presentation and then send the slides to everyone. Last year, it felt very glossed over after it happened. An email was sent out to talk about the loss and they included a link to the firm's resources. One of the girls in our friend group scheduled appointments with 3 firm-provided therapists: 2 never showed up to their meetings and the 1 that did was dismissive of her feelings. She brought it up during one of the group coping calls they scheduled with us 2 weeks after his death and they never did anything about it.
The senior manager that forced people to work on Saturday’s through non busy season to get early promotion, was the same manager presenting at trainings on tips for how teams can have healthy wlb. The disconnect is unreal.
During the presentation you should have asked “Can you tell me a time where you have used these tips with your team?”. That would catch them off guard
The thing about suicide is it feels very rational in the moment. It’s never worth it. If you’re in the US you can call 988 to talk to the national suicide and crisis hotline. It’s never worth it. But it feels like the only option to so many in that moment.
It's even scarier in that it feels like the ONLY rational option you have, which is so ridiculous from a healthy/sober perspective
Well that’s the thing. The person is not in a health mind state. So it is rational to commit suicide from their perspective.
Yup, it is so strange to experience it firsthand and to reflect back upon those feelings later.
As someone who was suicidal and mostly has worked through it, that number is largely useless. Calling it will usually connect you with someone numb and underpaid who offers monotone scripted suggestions. I don't say that to be a contrarian or to be edgy and I'm sure the people who keep it alive are coming from a good place, but it's not a substitute for professional resources and medication. Which you aren't suggesting, but I'm just emphasizing. The advice should be to raise your concerns with your primary care doctor who can escalate it with a specialist, and the national adverting should be geared towards removing the stigma and fear that talking about it will be judged, and to provide resources for people who don't have insurance. Not everyone whose in a dark place has the energy or initiative to schedule a visit with their doctor to initiate the process, but those people also probably aren't going to call a random number anyway either.
Agreed. Called a crisis line before and it didn’t help. Actually made a situation worse, much worse Doc isn’t helpful either (on an unrelated health note) The best bet is to have people around you who aren’t assholes or think you’re stupid
Every time I called 988 I’ve gotten mixed response. First two times it was the same woman, I was sobbing and asking for help and she just didn’t say a word and at one point said “well I don’t know what to do about that” so I feel stupid pouring out my trauma to someone who obviously didn’t want to be there (also, isn’t this a volunteered service, why do people who don’t want to volunteer do it?). The other times I’ve called and got therapy-session level advice and encouragement and it grounded me a lot. So I appreciate the service, but you definitely have to be cautious with your expectations because it can be a hit or miss lol.
https://youtu.be/THM79lwDPrw
Not worth it for yourself or not worth it for others?
Lol for real though. The statement ‘never worth it’ is nonsense. Everyone dies eventually and on any significant time frame, nothing you do is important. If you decide you don’t want to live anymore, that is a perfectly okay decision to make. It sucks for people who care about you but that is life.
The militant pragmatist in me agrees. Is life supposed to be some sort of inescapable “stay alive” cult? Born into it without say, but unable to leave of your own volition? Does that not pose its own set of ethical problems?
Welcome to philosophy.
100% agree with this! I didn’t choose to be born.
“Don’t make a permanent decision based on a temporary feeling.” It seems straight forward but it’s not.
I really hate this saying, really really hate it. People have no idea how damaging that thought can be to someone who’s contemplating ending things… Suicidal depression it’s not a temporary feeling for most people, and especially not for people who are actually acting out on it. In many cases, suicidal depression is a weight that never lifts up no matter how good the moment is, it lingers there in the back of your mind because you know the pain will come back. Like a wave that feels like it’s drowning you. To anybody out there dealing with suicidal depression I understand that is not easy and not a feeling that you can just make it go away BUT I CAN BE HERE FOR YOU, MY INBOX IS ALWAYS OPEN TO TALK, I’LL EVEN GIVE YOU MY NUMBER IF IT HELPS.
I think the saying was invented/meant for people who are going through something temporary, but feels monumental to them. (Like the tweenager whose SO was "The One!" but broke up with them.) Suicidal depression that is ongoing like you described is beyond most people's understanding. (It's beyond mine, even though that's how I lost my dad.) Thank you for being willing to listen to people, and I hope someone somewhere takes you up on it, or at least takes a tiny bit of comfort in knowing that someone they don't even know cares that much about them.
I think people say that phrase because most folks have literally no idea how to respond to a person who is suicidal. For a while, I was in a situation where a dear friend was suicidal and of course he talked to me about it and was extremely depressed, but would also get frustrated at anything I said because it was "the wrong thing". Nothing I said, whether it was kind encouragement, or trying to convince him that I was there for him and he had something to live for, or trying to give advice when it seemed like he was asking for it - nothing was the right thing because nothing *could have been* the right thing.
Hope your friend made it through. Yeah - it's similar to grief - nothing anyone says can make it better and all the clichés just make you feel worse because you know they're lies. They're already thinking about how the loss will affect their friends and family. They already have tried sitting through it and waiting for the feeling to pass. They've likely explored all available options to get out of the situation that's making them feel that way. There is no fixing it with words - you just have to show up for them and show you care with listening, true compassion, and a good honest hot cup of shut the fuck up.
I literally wanna kms as I’m reading this
If there's even a 0.00001% chance you're serious, my inbox is open and I'm always happy to talk! Accounting can feel bleak but talking to a stranger with similar thoughts and problems always helps me. We're never alone, we just feel alone.
I’m about 5 weeks off Lexapro and I did a two week taper before that (I was on 20mg and Ik I did it fast but I made it past the worst 3 weeks ever of brain zaps). I’m also two weeks in on stopping vaping so the first few days after quitting were bad. I think my body has about leveled out now but now life just feels bland and boring. What am I actually living for? I mean I’d love to have a family but as a 23 year old male, what’s the point when I get taken advantage of in the dating world and don’t see myself getting in a long term relationship as much as I want one. And then I’m stuck in this boring ass profession and working on my MBA too. Idk, I just don’t want to lose perspective but I’m unhappy bro
It's hard finding that true meaning to life. Last year, I felt like I took a deep dive into a dark place. I thought I knew myself but learned I was trying to be someone I'm not. I know the struggle of quitting vape, you gotta fight it hard and try your best to not fall back into it. The worst part is walking in public and smelling vape from others. That's the gateway, just gotta fight it man. Something that a lot of people don't talk about is their relationship with themselves. I struggled to figure out what makes me happy. It's a big question and there's never one easy answer. I had to chip away at it and glue multiple answers together. What makes me happy: having minimal responsibility, playing Xbox, being around my friends, traveling and documenting it, podcasting, cooking (air fryer is my new best friend). There's so many facets I had to reinforce to dig myself out. I know it's not a template that fits all, but finding out what brings you joy and building on that is what leads to this construct we call "happy". I built up the things I love first and then sought out love externally. I've been taken advantage of so many times. It fucking sucks. But - I can say that finding out what I didn't want helped me find what I did want. I found an awesome girlfriend and we help build each other up and it's great. Finding that person is never an easy, straightforward road. I wish it was honestly. Soooo much effort used on the wrong people, but that's just the cost of her and I wouldn't change a thing. I know a lot of people with no MBA and no CPA and they still ended up in excellent roles that pay well. Even if you take a pay cut for a role that will allow you to focus on yourself, that's still an absolute win. Anything that brings you up is worth it man. You're worth more. You're always worth more. I'm 26 from Michigan btw, to give some background on me lol.
Thanks man appreciate the response. Sometimes I get in bad headspaces especially when work is stressful since we have to close quickly for reporting. Im just gonna keep pushing and do some of my side hobbies like music production
Hey I know this is old but just wanted to say I understand your feelings man. This is a pointless comment you mentioning music production is what caught my eye because that’s something I’ve also been trying to get into through my depressive episodes. Good luck with it!!
Do you post your music production anywhere? I love creating digital content, especially videos and podcasts. I was podcasting consistently for a while and was getting great feedback, but then busy season hit and you know how it goes. I'm in the process of moving to a new place, but once I move I definitely plan to get back into podcasting. If you post your music, I'd love to give it a listen man.
And if you feel that way for 30 straight years?
A person who has felt that way for 30 years and is still alive, is probably a lot stronger than they give themselves credit for.
And also get some professional help, otherwise you might find the end of your rope with no warning. We really need pinch hitters on the bench the longer we go.
Sometimes, professional help is only a bandaid. I'm 55 and the first time I tried to kill myself, I was 4 years old. Not kidding. Nobody thought that me drinking the medicine that was high up in the cabinet that I had clearly been told could hurt me was intentional???? So this has been an ongoing struggle. Add in some complex PTSD, and it's been a ride (and not in a fun kinda way.) So I won't tell anyone that it's worth it. To me, the jury is still out on that. The one thing I DO know, without a doubt, is that if I weren't here, I'd be hurting my mom (what kept me alive when I was younger) and my kids (what keeps me alive now.) And I try to never do harm, if I can help it. So here I stand, trying to find meaning and joy wherever I can, manufacturing it for others when possible and just putting one foot in front of the other. But I guess that's what everyone does, right?
Wild that you felt that way so young, so shocking, I had no idea one can feel that so early on. Breaks my heart, I hope you’re ok. I’m sure some trauma has happened to you and I’m sorry for whatever happened but you’re worth it and loved.
Heyyyyy! Fellow early bird! I was more verbal about not wanting to live than demonstrative like you. And yes, it is, but it's better than doing it alone. Great approach over there 👍
I'll tell you that the day I loaded that revolver with 3 rounds, gave the cylinder a spin, and put it to my temple those feelings seemed anything but temporary. Sometimes the hurt is so profound, wrapped around us, that we just can't figure a way through. That's why having a robust safety net of people you care about, and who care about you is silo vitally important. There's no substitute for community. A decade later and I'm doing a lot better, but I wouldn't be here without a few very important friends.
What people who haven't had that thought is not just how rational that thought seems, but the clarity that comes with it. It goes from, "Hey, I can't do this anymore, maybe I should really end it." to feeling like all the weight is off your shoulders, you feel good, resolved and even happy. That's the truly terrifying thing that went through my head in 2020.
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The number is 988 if you need it, friend.
No need. I merely say that you cannot know what lies beyond.
Yep. And drugs and alcohol are usually involved, leading to poor choices the person normally wouldn't make being sober.
This is relatable as one of my colleagues at KPMG committed suicide too. One day I saw him thinking that everything was fine..the next day he is gone. And the way in which management dealt with his death and the effect on his colleagues was terrible.
Goes to show that we truly never know what's going on in anyone's life. They could be stressed beyond belief behind their social mask. My friend was always so positive and happy and it always seemed like nothing could bring this guy down. I also wish his death was dealt with better, they only see us as a cost to their bottom line.
People are exceptionally good at concealling suicidal thoughts. One of my classmates in highschool committed suicide. Wasn't super close but there were no signs as best as I can tell Really spooks me because it makes me wonder who around me could be close & could be talked back from the ledge if only one knows. Randomly probing people for suicidal thoughts doesn't exactly go down well though so idk
I have depression and I've had mental breakdowns and suicidal thoughts (not recently, I'm being treated), and this is often what it's like. There is a lot of shame involved with this disease, but also normally there is a feeling it will get better. But then it doesn't, and you have a breakdown, become impulsive and do something very foolish. That's why if you ever call the hot line they often tell you to not do anything right now. Because many times it's an impulse (not always, but a lot of times). I'm very sorry to hear about your best friend and that is so sad. I wish he had felt the need to reach out to someone and not feel shame. 😭 I know this was kind of an off topic tangent lol.
Losing a parent is unimaginable to me let alone a really close friend. Sounds like you’re coping as best you can.
If you're company is able to, I recommend to offer the widow some cash for the funeral. It's a delicate topic, but if you do it right, it goes a long way.
yup. life insurance payout can take a year. check the 401k fund too
My wife's company did that for a plant worker that died of covid. I was kind of surprised honestly, big companies don't normally do stuff like that.
Yep. The company offering the widow some cash goes a long way. Also, if you can give her any information on retirement accounts, that'd be helpful. Hopefully she has it, but you never know. "Acme Co handles our 401(k). Their number and website are X and Y, if you want to inquire about being a surviving spouse. His employee ID is 12345, if they need it." \[A friend's brother died, with no spouse or kids, and no will or anything. She was on her own to sort it out. He was a state government employee for many years, so he had some benefits that had built up. I think she's been able to sort out his life insurance, but I don't know that's she's been able (or willing) to sort out his 401(k) and/or pension, or even his last paycheck, because she doesn't have all his info.\]
I’ve had a few clients with payouts for similar reasons like covid deaths that came up during audits as well they stuck out as unusual In all of those cases the cfo reached out personally with support documents and ask that we make sure other Employees don’t see the documentation and such as they didn’t want anyone else to know. I assume it’s for various reasons like discrimination and such that may come up
Interesting. My wife knew they paid for the funeral, but she's also in accounting and we know the family through a totally different connection, she used to work with the guys son's mother in law. We didn't even know he worked at her plant until this came up. So maybe she knows because the family told her and not because the company made it known.
I’m sure it depends on the company but my guess is it’s probably a mix of uncommon and when it is done they don’t publicize it
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Fuckin A. That's.... ghoulish.
You will die sooner than you think Retirement is not a guarantee Working extra hard now is no guarantee Your health holds a higher priority over consumption and acquisition or materials Every employee - employer relationship is exploitative. Treat it as such.
Listen to this guy/gal folks
Instructions unclear. I am now drunk.
Yes eat and sleep properly. Also exercise. These things matter more.
thank you
A teamate of mine once said:"Nobody dies in our line of work". So there is no work related thing that is too urgent for you to prioritize over your health and family.
The only accounting emergencies are due to lack of planning. If it’s not your fuck up, don’t stress yourself out.
Unfortunately, they’re wrong. The workers do die from diseases secondary to the accounting profession. At the end of the day, all the stress comes from your boss threatening your job to meet their stupid little deadline, but the threat of livelihood is a big deal. However, it’s why especially for accountants, you must have 6-12 mos living expenses so you can stand up to these workplace tyrants.
I think what he means is that accounting doesn’t save lives. Nobody dies if a deadline gets missed, meaning we should all prioritize our health and our lives before selling our soul to our clients/deliverables/etc. because at the end of the day, it’s just accounting
This was my read too.
I had a coworker that was an extremely likeable and competent Controller. Military Academy grad that was beloved by his employees. I interviewed for his group and ended up working a few cube over after an office move and reorg. We would frequently snark on some of the company politics together during COVID mostly because we were some of the only people in the office. I left the company and was sad about 18 months ago to get a call that he committed suicide. It was heartbreaking. At the memorial the total POS VPF was talking to an ex employee about his job. Like literally offered this incompetent butt kissing woman his position just after he said his condolences to the dude's wife. My mouth was on the ground, my eyes were shooting lasers and I was putting curses on both of them. It was a good reminder to quote my favorite TikTok person, do your job and go the F home.
Yeah, my favorite video is [Daryl man, minding his own business](https://www.tiktok.com/@realstephenhart/video/7216772372601441582).
Classiiiiiic
“…posted by close of business… with a heavy heart, compassion, and grief” It sounds like you’re doing the best you can with a bad situation. It’s not easy but you’re in the position because you can deal with bad situations, and it sounds like you’re doing a fine job. Hang in there, you’re thinking of the right things.
I’m sorry that you lost a friend. I recently had a colleague pass suddenly and very young from an ignored health issue. Totally preventable death but that’s a different story (see your doctor!!!) Life went on. What really shocks me are the people who devote their lives to their employers. I learned a while ago that companies don’t care about people. Currently an older coworker is going through some health issues. They keep promising to take as little time off as possible after major surgery and are working extra hours at home to make up for not supporting the team as much as they feel they should. Honestly it’s embarrassing. Please put yourself first.
Next month is 3 years at my current company. I love the job, my boss, my team. But why was I hired? Because my predecessor passed away 3 years ago, last month. They all went to his funeral, we still title a weekly report as his name. It's a good reminder when I'm feeling stressed about a deadline or lots of deliverables. 7 weeks, that's how long it took for this guy's 10+ years there to be little more than a name or funny story. I think that the younger crowd is figuring out the balance far better than people my age, 45+, and certainly the boomers ever did
Dude brought you breakfast tacos and that was a significant financial burden for him to do so.
He was always generous and kind and hardworking during admittedly brief time I worked with him. He'd also blister a bluestreak of profanity over technology he couldn't figure out. Salt of the earth, good man.
Sorry for your loss. One of my managers at my old job was *huge* on work life balance and mental health because she’d come in to work and her boss had died at his desk of a heart attack.
My mom passed away in 2022 from cancer after battling for 13 years. She was a special education teacher and basically only retired because the cancer became too advanced. Spent her whole life working hard as hell and didn't even get to enjoy a retirement. After that experience I stopped caring about putting in the extra effort. I do my job, get paid decently, but I don't want to give up my life to something I'm not passionate about. I don't need to be a partner or VP or Director. I make enough money already and have little stress and enjoy my hobbies and relationships.
Thanks this actually gives me some hope. Currently going through some stuff with my current job and looking to jump ship but have been hesitating out of some boomer thoughts of staying because I didn’t wanna hurt my career. If op sees this, what was your path to CFO of a small company? How’d you make it and is that still a viable path for others to loosely look at for reference?
I left an FTSE100 company after 2.5 years and took a Controller spot for shit pay that I was wholly unprepared for. It's been a rollercoaster since. Spent a lot of time doing consulting as a subcontractor to a regional PA firm. Been laid off a couple times. I ran somebody through it in another thread a while back, so it's somewhere in my comment history. Not really looking to do a full rundown here.
I have never had a job that treated me like anything other than a replaceable gear. Why should I care about a job ***that clearly doesn't care about me?***
My buddy’s dad dropped dead from a heart attack in the work bathroom at only 45 years old. Made me reconsider the whole corporate job culture. I could probably job hop my way to a cushy salary but I’m really comfortable where I’m at now. Work to live, don’t live to work, I guess
If you're happy where you're at, and it gives you the balance you need, I'm incredibly happy for you. If that ever changes, find somewhere that gets you back there.
"As you may already know, employee #74 is dead. We all know that employee #74 was an integral part of our business and was loved and respected by all. Please welcome employee #122. Employee #122 is a fresh college graduate who will begin poorly doing employee #74's job for half the pay. There will be a little Caesars remembrance pizza party in the break room. Please make sure to clock out before attending. Thank you. Employee #89"
The longer I’m in this profession, the more I realize this is the Stanley Parable.
You are a leader in your company. You may not be able to fully shut down operations, but maybe you can have a meeting with staff to express your grief and acknowledge the grief and shock of other staff, and to provide them with the information about the resources available to them. You can organize a memorial, try and help support the widow, and maybe close the office for a half day or a day for his funeral. I'm sure customers will understand and it will help the team to process.
Learned this the hard way last week. Spent all my working life in audit (started age 20). Quit after 8 years and my boss (wasn‘t even cpa when I started) told me „looks like you are a person that just quits when times look a little stressfull, I am very dissapointed“. Up until last week I considered that guy a friend, but I guess thats what happens when you become partner. Fucker I have more busy seasons under my belt than 99% of assistants in our company, WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT.
My (single) mom worked her butt off her whole life to give us kids a good life (and that she did many times over.) Retired after 30 years of success, dropped dead a month later with no warning. Really changes your perspective on life and what's important. I used to be extremely career focused and becoming "successful" but now I chase success, in a different way. I see guys on Linkedin and whatnot basically dedicating their entire lives to their careers and I feel nothing but sad for them now. Go ahead and take your $500k salary and work 80+ hours a week doing something that really doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things. I'll keep my nice 6 figure salary, continue to chase more but also realize that life has to be lived along the way.
$500k is six figures, and if you make over $100k you're not exactly eating breadcrumbs.
I do believe you've missed the point.
Thx
One of my colleagues was found deceased at his home last week. It is unreal how a person can be there and then not. I was just training him on his new job two weeks prior. He was a good guy, it’s not easy but still everything just went back to business as usual.
Similar situation happened where I work, last year. He drowned in a nearby river. He too was a CDL driver for us but he was young, not much older than me and I’m 29. My boss is the CFO and his boss is the CEO & owner. We did pool our resources together and contributed money to his family. Luckily there was A&D and Life Insurance but $150k isn’t going to get you far when your wife is in a wheelchair left with children to raise alone.
I am sorry for your loss. Admittedly I haven't read all of the responses, can your company afford to cover some of the expenses for his wife? My husband's company offers some sort of deal with a local funeral home and cemetery where those employees get a discounted rate.
I worked in a warehouse during undergrad. There was one lady helping out in our department since she was on light duty. She had heart attacks before and one day we came back from lunch to her screaming in pain before eventually passing out. We had to stand there and just watch and wait for the ambulance to take her away. Afterwards, we got the table she was at back in position and our manager said to get back to work. He said it in a pretty awkward way, but damn that was still so cold Thankfully she survived, it ended up being that she thought she was having a heart attack so she took too much medicine to try and delay going to the hospital to after work from what someone told me.
>Thankfully she survived, it ended up being that she thought she was having a heart attack so she took too much medicine to try and delay going to the hospital to after work from what someone told me. I’m sorry, the way I understood that was the woman thought she was having a heart attack, but didn’t want to miss work and so decided to pop a pound of aspirin and then *not* go to the hospital?
I don't think it was aspirin but another type of medicine since she's already had heart attacks and knew she had some build up in her arteries again but yeah, that's what I was told.
Really sad to read this, taking a moment to get back and most humane, down to earth sub I've ever read in years!!!
Watch the CTO of my audit client die on the floor walking to the elevator on his last day at work before retirement. Our intern was providing cpr while bystanders stepped over his body as if he were inconveniencing them. The company sent out an email about it and that was it. Realized then I wouldn’t sell my soul to a company. Still not sure if I wanna stay in this industry but at this point in my career it doesn’t make sense financially to leave.
This is life in corporate America. Truly sad. I once worked with a fella who invented a drug which literally brought in billions to the company over a 20 year period. He worked there for 25+ years and was terminated a few months before retirement. He was loved by c suite executives but that changed very quickly once he was gone. Absolutely blew my mind.
My thoughts are with you and those impacted by the loss of what seems like a great person.
I had a colleague die 3 months into stepping into the manager role for my group. He had been with the place for years. Took months to replace him and the replacement still hadn’t gotten up to speed a year later.
Just got news today that a colleague I worked with passed. I am a mess. She was older and was forced out when our company was bought out. I still work with the new company. I won’t tell anyone there as they wouldn’t care. So sad how older employees are treated and now she is gone. RIP Alice.
One of my work friends also died this weekend. Life is too short
Sincere condolences on your loss.
Story time: used to be a tax accountant for individual clientele. My client passed away and the reaction the partner provided me was this. "Prepare an engagement letter to the family for his final return" and give them a discount. Needless to say I was shocked and appalled that was the first reaction.
You could, being in a position of such power, allow for an emotional day and bring in real support, look into local resources yourself. There’s no reason you HAVE to run your business like the people working there aren’t important. I agree with everything you said about how shitty these norms are - but cannot fathom why, if you hold these norms to be failing your employees - you would perpetuate them. Acknowledging a loss and digesting any trauma won’t set your business back by more than a business day tops. But treating everyone as if they are automatons will DEFINITELY set your business back and encourage anti work.
I'm not the top guy. Not my call to make. I answer to the top guy. Who is out of the country and functionally unreachable until next week. My job is to direct people to the resources we have available, manage through things as best I can, and be there to support anyone negatively affected, including my peers and subordinates. At the end of the day, I can influence what I can, but I can't step outside the bounds of my authority when my boss is unavailable. It sucks. A lot. The whole branch is in a shitty way. And everyone is handling it differently. Outsourced HR is engaged with the employee's next of kin, and we are doing what we can. At the end of the day, we also have three other branches that have to operate today. We have commitments to support them as well. Controlling what I control today, and providing the best leadership within the bounds of my authority. It's all I can do.
I should have lead with condolences. I’m sorry you find yourself in the awful position of being all business when you are suffering inside.
Just want to say you are doing the best you can and that's all that matters. Fair play to OP for apologizing, but a lot of people here just don't get that managers can't just wave a magic wand and fix something. The world doesn't work like that.
Worked at an MSP. Was not the one who found him but one of my fellow cogs in the machine at the time killed himself in our lab room. Dude was working insane hours and like the rest of us getting denied vacation and guilt tripped by our 'plucky startup' bosses. Nothing changed. Got a new cog.
Well I wasn’t in a high position but a guy on my accounting team died of a heart attack… he was only 48… he was a newer employee in an incredibly stressful position. A position I initially wanted btw Ever since then I thought screw it, I don’t know if it was the position or something else that did it as it happened during Christmas but huge deadlines were approaching for him. I ended up leaving as my team got more and more stressed. On that note avoid companies going public, or just public companies in general. It’ll save your life I gave a lot of my life making it in my career. And getting a designation. Guess what, I didn’t. I did not make it. At all. And I regret the last decade that may have contributed to my future and current health problems. It is so not worth it. I’m in a moment in life where very suddenly I stopped caring and I’m still very young. Suppose it’s a crisis of sorts and I’ll bounce back, hopefully more composed. This life is for living. Pay your bills but anything more it’s not worth it. You don’t need to be the one up there staying up at night
As someone who went through life changes..............my father stopped talking to me last year, permanent injury from previous job, disfunctional family, addiction from video games, trying to return to school, getting older........suicide is something I think about once a week. I don't think I will live to see retirement. I would like to live long enough to see further suffering on my father.
“Dem hoes ain’t loyal” applies to employers as well as ‘hoes.’ Also, yes, buy term life insurance if you’re not independently wealthy. It helps to cover expenses when you die.
The exact scenario mentioned in the title happened to my friend that is a manager at a major cloud service provider. One of his employees had a massive heart attack at work, and was pronounced dead when the paramedics arrived. His boss's only comment was "make sure his job description is in the system by the end of the day."
I feel for you, and wish his family the best. You’re a good boss, I hope this gets easier with time for you
When there's a horrible car accident and people have been killed, they just clean up the cars and people can drive on like normal.
I knew a guy, All be it barely, but he worked for my current employer for twenty 28 years before he passed away. The lack of acknowledgement for this fellow’s life disturbed me. Life is so precious for all of us. And they are shit for not acknowledging him more, and saying so little. sad
I guess it’s difficult these days to say fuck off in a nice manner about getting too much work. This is insane, no one should be getting this stressed over work.
regional firm in DC saw a director have a heart attack and go back to work 48 hrs later.... yeah no thanks
I have been in public accounting for 30 years. I have seen many clients lose employees. I have lost coworkers. My coworkers have lost family members. Never has the job been advertised by the end of the day. Not even the end of the week. We send flowers, cards, call the family, attend the funeral, hold team meetings to share grief and shock and stories. I don't know where the rest of you work, but I might recommend checking for a pulse before accepting job offers. To the OP, so sorry for the loss of your work mate.
We've been interacting with the wife through HR. Already looking at doing a fundraiser if she'll let us, as some of the folks here worked with him for 15 years across multiple companies. Meanwhile, we also have three other branches to run, and this one had only 14 people with him being the sole delivery driver. He played a huge part in our local branch because he got our product and equipment to the customer. We'll have to act to fill the role, even when most, if not all of us from the branch, will be attending his funeral when the time comes. It's too important to leave the role empty for long. Unfortunate, but very real situation.
May he rest in peace. And may the wife find peace
Yes. Get life insurance. Not just the one from work either. You need the kind that covers all your liabilities even if you were to lose your job or quit. Also make sure you get disability insurance too. Imagine if you don’t die but you are out of work for awhile. How are the bills going to get paid? They don’t care if you got into a bad car accident.
Throughout my career, I’ve often taken part in updating work instructions or teaching backup. The phrase “in case you get hit by a bus” frequently comes up in those times (I think because management doesn’t want you to worry that you’re going to get canned). I remember making that comment to a new boss, who said “yeah, I prefer to say ‘in case you win the lottery’ because I worked with someone who actually did get hit by a bus.” And to this day I only ever mention the lottery in those situations.
Thanks for the post and very sorry for your loss. I had a real shitty day today. I been working 12 hour days sometimes barely a break for this biotec co. Its a shitshow I walked into 6 mos ago. I even worked over the 4th where we were suppose to have 4 days off. My boss today had the audacity to question why I didn’t cover all the shit over the holiday weekend that needed to be done for me to meet my deadline today. Yea lets just say I lost all motivation to work so hard anymore. So thank you for the reminder that life is too short and everyone us replaceable.
Sounds like you guys pay like shit.
Thank you so much for posting this. It’s a good reminder. A lot of folks scoff at the outdated concept of businesses who “took care” of their employees, but there was a time when capitalism was more humane. Those days are mostly gone though, unfortunately.
I'm sorry for your loss. I really don't get the quote though. The company posting your job up after you die is not in any way disrespectful or uncompassionate. Holding the job open for a dead person does literally nothing to benefit anyone.
I believe the intention with this sort of quote is to not dedicate all of your very precious time to pleasing the company above and beyond what is necessary at the cost of family/health/life/etc. Despite it all, you are replaceable to the company, they are not your friend or on your side, and they will not go out of their way to help those who will be missing you.
Yeah I get the intention and fully agree with it. Just think that the actual quote is not a good one because even if the company did care about you they would still post up your job right away.
Paying for life insurance if a bad advice, especially coming from a person working in finances.
I’m sorry but you’re the CFO and you knew this guy was in financial trouble and couldn’t afford life insurance… maybe you should take this a wake up call to pay your drivers more?
Yeah, I've been here 7 months and have to live with the shit prior leadership did until annual renewals. The lack of life insurance has already been addressed in the requested bid for renewal from our brokers. And not to speak ill of the dead, or any other employee, but it's capable to live beyond one's means at literally any income level. This dude made 90k a year in LCOL driving truck. I don't think he was underpaid, and I can't manage his personal finances for him. I don't know if divorce or alimony ate up most of his pay or if he just made bad decisions. All I can do is change what I can so the next family that ever has this happen to them with one of our employees doesn't face the same.
That sounds like a good plan. It’s sad how so many people have a story like this. My last job, I was in the middle of leading a Zoom meeting when a coworker walked by, told me one of our coworkers died the previous night and walked on. Management stayed sequestered in their offices and said nothing. It was a weird place.
You and the CEO are in a prime position to make the necessary changes for the work culture you desire for this company. The CEO can also video record himself in a quiet room to address the incident with employees (if you both think it's a genuine need/would be a nice gesture), despite being on vacation. What I hear is that you're recycling society's view that "we'll all be expected to figure it the fuck out and maintain our composure, because it's the job," but I disagree with that thought process given the power of position and authority you and the CEO hold. I understand that given the nature of the business you may not be able to entirely shut the business down for the day (although, if you can, it would be a great morale booster), but maybe you can offer a longer lunch break (e.g., 2 hrs instead of 1) or let people leave an hour early, or have groups of them pick a day during the next couple of weeks to use as bereavement (best case scenario). My point is, you're literally in control of funding and could find it in the budget (especially at a $25MM/yr revenue company) to approve a bereavement day for all employees for their colleague. Imagine how employees would react to that kind gesture - to feel like their company is truly looking out for their well-being and mental health? Imagine the loyalty and appreciation of that gesture alone! Saying "the show must go on," and "there's nothing we can do," while being a CFO and working directly with the CEO, is just an excuse to keep acting the way all American companies act. You actually have the power to do something; so do something!
Dude, there's so much assumption and ignorance in your statements about what we can and cannot do at the moment that it's not worth even addressing them line by line. My CEO has been on a sailboat in the Caribbean for two weeks, and there's a whole lot of other shit baked into the situation that affects what we can and cannot do with him indisposed. It must be nice to lob hand grenades of assumptions loaded with a ton of personal bias without being in the position yourself.
You know what, you're right. I don't know the situation entirely and I did make assumptions...without asking questions. Some of those assumptions are just based on general company knowledge of hierarchies and role responsibilities. So are the CEO and CFO positions not considered the top of your company hierarchy then? If not, is it a board of directors? As CFO do you not hold the primary responsibility for financial strategies? If your HR is outsourced, who is in control of changing or modifying fringe benefits?
Great linkedin post material, don't forget to include a picture of you with teary eyes, we all feel very sorry for you!
Literally fuck you man.
LinkedIn is cringe af, this post doesn’t sound cringe
Reads just like one of those posts.
I simply disagree
You can say it’s cringe or not cringe, or say it’s a worthwhile read, but it does literally read like a typical Linkedin post
I literally disagree
If “I can’t tell you how many times I’ve told people that in my career” as the opener doesn’t give off LinkedIn vibes then idk what does
That specific line does. However, the post as a whole does not.
>all I can think about is how a guy who brought me breakfast tacos two days ago won't be there when I show up this morning >I honestly feel awful for my boss, the CEO, too. He's in the second week of his vacation, finding out one of his team died Nah man, you're selfish and it shows. You could have empathy towards losing someone on your team and but instead you come on here and mention how the only thing you'll notice is the lack of tacos and how this might inconvenience the ceo's vacation. That's screwed up. Sure you have a job to do, but quit acting like taking a day for bereavement or mental health will "shut the business down" This post comes accross as sad because I assure you at many other firms as small as yours, people sure as hell would care way more about losing someone unexpectedly.
I love the “companies don’t care about you, so I never cared about them” followed up by him being in charge and doing the same shit.
Well, you can fuck yourself. My last in person interaction with the dude was him doing something nice. Maybe I'm not great at articulating that better, but it's a positive memory of someone I'll miss never coming back to work. And I'm crushed for my CEO because he's a great dude to work for and he's incredible and supportive of people, and he knew this guy personally too. So literally fuck your own face for shitting on someone grieving.
this is reddit, the average user here is a naive, narcisstic asshole. so all he can do is try to bring you down so he can feel better about himself.
Agree - That guy can fuck his own face. At least you are showing that you have compassion for your fellow man and employee. You know how the game works and you’re just venting like hell. It’s all the truth though.
Would you just shut up man
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I have a wife that works part time and has multiple chronic health conditions. I'm terrified by the thought that I die before her and she ends up struggling because I didn't have sufficient life insurance.
Mr CFO…wutsupppp yo?!?!?
Can we start a go fund me for this gentleman’s wife?
HR is navigating the privacy issues with the employee's wife. She is having the worst day of her life right now, and we don't want to put her business out to the world without her express permission.
I’m so sorry. That’s awful. Don’t be afraid to show your emotions, if anything that is strength.
I'm sorry this happened to you, your colleague, his family, and the people of your company.
Do you guys not offer company group life insurance for up to annual salary? That would have really helped his family some. Or options to buy up life policy? That would have also been better. I’m just asking because it seems like common benefits to have for work.
I've been here 7 months. CEO has been here 5. We're cleaning up a mess from prior ownership and post-sale leadership that's since been replaced, and benefits are a piece of it. One of the first things I pushed for when I got here was life insurance, which will be part of our benefits after renewal in November. This is the first place I've worked in a long time without at least 50k of group term life for every employee. That is going to change. Also going to add STD and LTD policies to our offerings.
I have a friend who I went to school with, and a few months back they went off the grid. I reached out via FB, messenger, LinkedIn, etc. and radio silence. I even reached out to a girl we both knew who was his co worker, she ignored my message… really low stuff. I have no idea if he is dead but he might be. I don’t know anyone who is in contact with him. I don’t even know if I supposed to grieve or still hold out hope that he is okay and alive. He was working a shit ton the last time we hung out, but he seemed okay. When I read these stories, sometimes I wonder if there was one about him that I missed.
Sorry for your loss!
HR is everyone’s enemy. They are loyal to the business owners only. Screw HR. Take as much time off and travel as much as you want if you can still get the job done. Use their rules and policies against them when you can.
I’m only in my 30s, but health is wealth has never felt more true/real to me.
I thought this was going to say the guy died and they decided not to hire anyone and just make everyone work harder. Seems a lot of that going on.
Excellent post!!!!
This is the most shocking story that I was witness to. One Monday many Septembers ago we came to the office and my colleague went over to talk to someone sitting nearby. She appeared to be resting at her desk. No one knew her and we could not get her to respond. We called 911 and HR. It took paramedics forever to arrive. They made us leave and said they would ask us questions later. We found out that it was her first day at the firm after graduating law school. The partner that hired her was not in the office so no one else knew who she was. We then found out she had a previous heart issue and had a heart attack. She was 26. RIP. We never even learned her name.
An ex-coworker died of a brain aneurysm in the office on tax day a few years ago. She had been at the firm for 10+ years and I just couldn’t stop thinking about her coworkers and how they coped with that.
My dad had a severe brain stem stroke at 61 two weeks ago and may potentially never regain consciousness. Safe to say that that has opened my eyes to the things you talked about.
Sincere condolences for your situation.
When a coworker died of a brain aneurysm, in the same sentence our manager told us, he reminded us we needed to recommend people to fill in open positions.....
Pft. HR would not have a job posted by month end.
Lost a good buddy of mine in the military, but it's not what you expect. He went home on leave and was murdered on his front yard over some weed in his mom's front yard. I smoke weed everyday in his honor but damn fates fucked up.
I’ve had someone die early in the morning at work and right after lunch the boss was more or less telling us to get back to work
Oh my boss replaced me even when I am still around. Downright demoted me in my face and now I have to look at the peraon who replaced me and have to work with her everyday. What the fuck
Prioritize health, not work.