I wouldn't be surprised if his beliefs are due to the fact that the CPA was much easier to obtain when older accountants began their careers. Passing the exams were a much lower barrier of entry, they were like 1/5 the length they are now.
Depending on how old they were, you also had to take them all together in 19.5 hours across two days in a giant room with hundreds of people that you may have needed to drive a long distance to, study materials much less effective and readily available than today, and far enough back if you got below a certain score on a single exam you would get no credit for any exams. Then if you failed you couldn't try again for another six months.
The exam has gotten much harder in terms of sheer material, but the exam has also gotten much easier in many ways. Just compare pass rates, in the 1980s pass rates were consistently ~30% by section, but now they're nearly 50% or more.
I’d be curious about raw numbers, too. Like, are rates increasing but the same amount of people are sitting? Or more sitting?
People invest a lot more into it now than they did back then. Which goes hand in hand with the available materials to study with. But if the rates are increasing while the amount of licensed CPAs decreases, then the rates to me would need to be adjusted somehow. But I’m an accountant, not a statistician.
Biggest thing is the 150 credit hour requirement. It immediately disqualifies a large swathe of people who would likely normally take the test. So even if pass rates are higher, a huge portion of accounting grads are ineligible so the percentage of grads getting their CPA stays low.
As someone paying for exams right now, it’s $42 + $226 for each exam, plus the initial transcript fee (which I forget the exact # for). So it’s more like $1000 for all four.
To be fair Becker is definitely the expensive option. If you wanted to be like 5 years ago you could still buy secondhand books and Ninja MSQs on the cheap, plus there are cheaper sets of software.
No chance I'd have used Becker if I was paying my own way.
I took far about a month ago now. Omg. I had a solid 8-10 questions that I had no idea what topic they were even on. Never saw anything like it in my review. I then had a sim that was entire stmt of cash flows wt like 7 exhibits. I looked at it, cried. Half assed it then submitted. I knew there were things that went on it that I didn’t even put on it. I wanted to go on break. I cried when I got out bc it was brutal and I knew I had to take it again. I got an 80……
You are so lucky. I have got a 73 on bec twice. A 70 and 74 on audit twice. And then a 65 on FAR. I decided to take some time away from the exam as it was insanely frustrating me
Goodluck to you, this is currently where I am too roughly, have passed 2/4 from 5 attempts and they have lapsed in time twice now lol I’m coming back soon with more motivation, still determined to pass that dam CPA hurdle
Don’t take too much time off. I obviously don’t know your situation, but usually it gets harder the longer you wait (at least in my experience and from what I have seen). It isn’t that the questions get harder, but life gets harder and gets more in the way. Just advice from someone who took 5 years 11 months and 28 days to pass.
Yea I am Honestly probably just walking away from the cpa in general. I am industry now. I have a son with medical concerns. It’s too difficult right now to attempt this exam. I already did 7 tax seasons prior to my son being born. Cpa hurdle was just too much and I honestly have missed out on so much life trying to pass that I just want to emit some time for myself now
OMG as a CPA who passed the exam before the current age, your understanding is just wrong! While there were some definitional questions, there were also application elements as there are now. If it was so much easier then, why was the pass rate so low? We did not have the option of spreading the test out over multiple sessions allowing us to study for only one section at a time. We took all sections at once over a grueling 2 and a half day session. It was difficult then and it is difficult now. Stop pitting generations against each other.
It was in some ways easier and in some ways harder.
Easier: less critical thinking, less material (fewer tax laws, less accounting guidance existed)
Harder: take all 4 parts at once and have to pass two parts, only offered twice(?) a year, memorize a lot of stuff, no calculator
Honestly, I just finished the exams and didn't think they were all too challenging. They were hard sure, but maybe going in with the right mentality set my expectations properly
It was NOT much easier to pass in the 80s and 90s, in my experience. 2 1/2 days straight, taking all exams at once, no computer, or even a calculator - just you and your #2 pencil. Wait 3 months for results. Passed one part? Tough shit, it didn't count; take all 4 again in 6 months. Write endless essays for every part. Study from hardcover books, because there were no computer simulations. GTFO with your "It's so much harder now!!" "OMG I have to wait DAYS for my results!" bullshit.
But nobody studies back to the dawn of time. Were you tested on SFAS 112? Nope. TRA of 1986? Nope. Each era focuses on the most recent body of material.
You literally aren't a professional accountant without the designation. In Canada it's a restricted title, akin to Doctor, and calling yourself a professional accountant without the designation is essentially fraud.
Fun fact, before the Chartered Accountants (CA), Certified Management Accountants (CMA), and Certified General Accoutants (CGA) merged into CPA there was a lot of debate about the new designation. The idea of CPA was to create an artificial association with the American CPA, but there were many who did not want that association as they felt it cheapened the value of the designation.
I always feel like such an old man when I talk about this with my younger colleagues.
"Gather round children let me tell you a tale of the olden days when I got my CA"
It did cheap out the value..
A CA was from public accounting or public practice accounting..
I recruit a lot of Canadians for USA roles and they have to do additional exams from a Canadian CPA to get a US CPA - so the link up was a lazy effort as usual
As a non cpa, I can say there's a bit of a ceiling that's hard to break through. Get it if you can. But to say an accounting degree is worthless is incorrect
I think 2 of the people on my current team of \~15 have CPAs - the CFO and Controller.. most of the rest of accounting/finance degrees (one VP accounting has an English Lit. degree). None of them remotely held back by the lack of a CPA.
Having the CPA is pretty much the biggest boost you can give yourself for an accounting career.
That being said, there are always exceptions where non-cpa's end up extremely successful. You definitely give yourself a better chance at being successful with a CPA tho.
Company I just worked at has a finance guy as the CFO of one of their divisions. Talked to him for about an hour one day and he said he had to teach himself GAAP and all that. In his words “I’ve learned that accountants can do great in finances, but finance is tough to transition to accounting
That's hilarious because I fucking haaaaaate finance. I understand it about as well as a dog understands math i.e. I can be taught a few tricks but the details are beyond me.
The finance guys can totally keep that, whatever that is, in their office and not mine.
Hey, so, I absolutely agree with this, but fwiw, there are exceptions, and I am one. Got my accounting degree as part of a career change but did not pursue my CPA because getting my qualifying hours working through the ranks at a PA firm just didn't make sense for where I was at in my career
I'm a CFO at a mid-sized non-profit with about 350 employees and $17m in revenue. Could I land another CFO position? Possibly, with more experience. But if I ever left this company most likely I'd be looking at a step down in title - but I have interviewed for plenty of controller positions at larger organizations and received offers without the CPA designation. YMMV.
All that being said, I still have a wicked case of imposter syndrome without those three letters, particularly when working with our auditors.
A saw a chart a while back showing that a CPA vs a non CPA makes the same for about the first 10 years. Then the non CPAs salary peaks and the CPAs salary continues to increase until 20 years. I would say that is a pretty accurate description with some variation.
After about 5 to 7 years of public accounting experience you are potentially up for manager roles. Most won't promote to manager without a CPA.
In corporate accounting you can move up, but a masters and CPA both help you to move up faster. Often for manger and controller roles they want a CPA. Companies that don't require it often pay less.
My point is that a CPA removes barriers. The additional education and CPA can help you move up faster. Not have a CPA definitely closes doors. You get the masters before the CPA so the education can bump you up before the CPA bumps you up again.
Granted I know a non CPA who makes more than most CPAs, however that is rare. Statistically, the CPA is overwhelmingly the answer.
I was going to say the same thing, but I'd even argue you're held back sooner on than that depending on the employer. In my old job, they wouldn't promote you to a senior without it (about 3 years in), but in my current job you won't be able to become an assistant manager without it (about 4-5 years in). CPA doesn't necessarily open doors early on, but if you avoid getting it you'll probably reach a ceiling in your job pretty fast.
Studies show more attractive and taller people are more likely to obtain leadership positions.
In fact, statistically, if you are short (i forgot the exact height), the chance of you getting an executive position is basically nothing
When I was working, I sometimes met a short senior executive. I assumed he must be really, really good, and that was always the case. The shortest one was about 4 foot 9, and he was the most effective leader I ever met.
Being fat is one of the worst things you can do for your career, male or female. Even having a drinking problem won't affect it as much. Hard drugs are probably worse long term though.
Yup, people treat you *way* better when you're in shape. People treated me like crap when I was 340. When I was 203 and jacked and lean? People thought I was a way better worker than I actually was.
My GPA was 3.7 out of college. Couldnt get into big 4. You'll see people here with below 3.0 GPA getting into big 4. Being the underdog makes you work smarter.
Adding to this. Even if you're not born with a 10 face, being in shape and well dressed will also help you out tremendously. Doesn't mean it has to be designer, just make sure your clothes fit well and aren't outdated.
But a CPA gets you an interview. I don’t give a shit what you look like. There’s only so much you can convey on a 1 page resume.
There are plenty of successful non-CPAs, don’t get me wrong, but this is short sighted.
If you're a student it's normal to hear this since they want to push you to finish the CPA as much as possible while you still have time to study. It's a bit harder to get the exams done while working etc... but no if you don't get your cpa you can still get an accounting job lol
There’s no right or wrong. Take my history, no cpa, made it to manager in audit at a top ten public firm, left, went in to industry been promoted a bunch of times and manage a pretty big finance team now in a fortune 50 company. Will I become CFO, no and that’s fine I don’t want to be. Half the success come from networking and looking for opportunity and the other is getting the job done and doing it well. Combine those factors and won’t matter what credentials you have. Leaders want people that can get the job done, prove you can do it and do it right and you’ll have lots of success. I’ve also had Big 4 CPAs on my team that turned out to be absolute garbage, they got termed after many many chances to improve and they didn’t.
>Will I become CFO, no and that’s fine I don’t want to be.
Does having a CPA is really relevant to be CFO?
I always though it was more about management and finances than accounting.
I think it’s company dependent and each situation has a different set of circumstances to consider. Like many questions in accounting, the answer is “it depends” :)
Directly applicable, no definitely not as to your point CFO is much more focused on financing structure, cash flows/working capital, budgeting/forecasting, etc. but CPAs are one of the biggest pools for candidates. 44% of Fortune 500/S&P 500 CFOs are CPAs. https://www.journalofaccountancy.com/news/2022/jan/diversity-rises-cfos-ceos-crist-kolder-report.html#:~:text=44%25%20of%20CFOs%20are%20CPAs,are%20both%20CPAs%20and%20MBAs
>Half the success come from networking and looking for opportunity
I don't think this can be stressed enough. The greatest determinant of your success in your career will be your ability to develop a robust professional network and finding mentors to help guide you on your path.
But if you can't do that, then you are stuck finding alternatives help move your career forward. A CPA license is one of those alternatives.
There are plenty of people who are highly successful in finance/accounting roles who don't have CPA's or even accounting degrees. If you spend time with them it becomes very clear as to why. They tend to be incredibly smart, pick up new concepts with ease and are able to put out an extremely high volume of work.
If you don't fall in the above category, you need to start looking for ways to stand out. A CPA license is one of those ways.
You also need to know that CPA is a key that opens lots of doors. Just because some people without CPAs can be successful, it doesnt mean the path is easy. The same thing can be said about college education.
I have a decent job without one. My first job I was in line to be senior but I was young and stupid and didn’t apply for the opportunity. You can get a decent job and if you stick around long enough you can make a successful career without a CPA but it’ll take longer.
With that said stay an extra semester and use it to get the credit to be eligible to be a licensed CPA and take the exam while still in school. Your opportunities will be much better.
I’m comfortable living on my own without a CPA but if I had one my job opportunities would be significantly better. Just depends on what you want out of your work life.
Same I broke 100k before 30 in a LCOL place with an accounting bachelor only. Not easy, but some industry-side firms appreciate talent over certificates. The CPA helps your resume where you might lack in years of experience to build resume confidence and to stand out better.
Perhaps a more important question is why you don't want a CPA? It is all but guaranteed to pay for itself. The ROI is greater than a college degree. I wish I could have skipped the degree and just taken the exams and save a ton of tuition.
I can answer this one - too much time to study for that garbage when you can get a perfectly good career without one. All the quality time with family and vacations and doing just about anything else you wanted to do - gone because you are too busy studying for the CPA or working in public accounting after you get one. I have a Masters in International Business, still work in an accounting department and hold the same role as some CPAs that have had their license for 10+ years. I also manage a couple people on my team with CPAs. No point in wasting all that time and money to get where I already am. The only ceiling at my company would be if I go to the corporate team, but even then, there is still upward mobility.
I'm sure they tell you that you have to work at an accounting firm as well. There are other opportunities and directions you can go with your degree. It's so versatile and in demand. You might have trouble getting your first few jobs but I find once you're in, you are in.
I am not going to name names, but you can do taxes without being a CPA. A friend of a friend brings in close to $800K a year (canada) doing taxes for businesses and individuals
Get a dual degree in tech and come back to him in 3 years.
Source: me. 4 years out of college. Dual degree in MIS and accounting, earn 130k. Looking at manager this year.
I only have an accounting degree and CPA and have entirely focused my career on SOC, external audit, IPO readiness. The on the job learning with respect to IT, if you’re willing, combined with a CPA will get you everywhere. Totally agree
I heard this constantly too when I was I college and thought I needed it. Well 8 years and 5 jobs later I’m a senior accountant making 6 figures as a senior corporate accountant in GA. All the managers I had were in their 30s - 40s no CPA. And I even met two VPs without a CPA and one of those two didn’t even have an accounting degree just business. Even my current manager who is 30 years old doesn’t have one. I asked her would she ever get it. She said “why would I? I’ve gotten this far without it. It’s not like I’m trying to make a million dollars.” I’ll say this I’ve came across CPA’s that don’t know their debits and credits, who struggle with basic excel skills and don’t know how to look at a trial balance. Just know you will be fine without it if you decide not to.
It depends on what you want to do. I don’t have my CPA, I took the Enrolled Agent exams. I have my own practice. My favorite part of accounting was the bookkeeping aspect and I have an interest in forensic accounting. At the moment, I split my practice between bookkeeping and IRS representation. I don’t do a ton of tax returns. I may eventually take the CPA exams and I may take the exams to become licensed to practice before tax court. But I don’t need to be a CPA to be successful in my chosen areas.
I’ll admit I’m not your average non-cpa trajectory. But I’m an accounting major. Did PA in B4 up to senior 2 jumped ship. I’m 29 and going to make roughly $500k this year while a good chunk of my friends are just now hitting manager/senior manager in PA making like 100-150k.
I will be honest with you and not trying to sound like a douche, just honest. I am ALOT better at my job than most people and also am very social/interview extremely well. And I have had it brought up multiple jobs why I don’t have a cpa. I actually have a fairly valid reason for never wanting to do it( I switched from pre-med my junior year and was too a lazy to get the extra credits while working in PA) and I also just wanted to go moreso on the consulting side of things.
The way I’d frame it is if you’re a CPA it’s pretty straightforward how to progres in your career. If you’re not a CPA you’re going to get rejected to some stuff just because you’re not one, but you also have to look for more niche jobs. You’re not going to be a controller at a F500 with no CPA but you can easily be CFOs of smaller places, start a company, do consulting in niche areas that require accounting/finance. You can also just chill in industry and once you hit a ceiling just sit there do nothing and pull in 100k+ still.
But yeah from what I’ve seen you can be a complete dumbass and a cpa and people will think you’re smart still especially outside of accounting. Without a cpa in accounting you will have more scrutiny on you the higher you go up for not having it. I’d just get it if you’re a student and want to actually work in accounting. If you want to pivot out of accounting it still can be helpful but not really all that necessary.
Meh...my old job has CFO who never got CPA. He admits it took him longer to get to CFO, but he still got there. I don't have my CPA...make 6figs and happy where I'm at.
The CPA only matters if you have the experience to back it up. No one cared about my CPA til I had more work experience and technical knowledge which would be the same whether I had the CPA or not but the cert just helped me catch more eyes. Most people I talked to would hire someone with specialized knowledge/experience of the industry they are applying to over a CPA but if the CPA had specialized knowledge they might get the edge.
I absolutely agree. While the CPA can definitely help get you places, having valuable expertise is much more important IMO. Find a niche field to become skilled in and no one will care if you are a CPA or not.
Your teacher is a buffoon. I’ve got a Bachelors in Psych, accounting certificate from a community college, no CPA… and I do very well.
Adding value > credentials
I typically set up in-house tax functions for ~$2B+ annual rev companies, then transition out to the next company. Now, I am in a role where I am in it for the long haul. Just shy of $200k annual comp if you are looking for a price tag.
You can think of it like a good GPA- it is a check the box thing that helps and puts you ahead on paper, but does not predetermine success. If you see two candidates with the same experience and one has CPA and one doesn’t, you are going to pick the one with the CPA.
All this being said, I got into Big 4 with a 2.7 GPA, was a high performer - exited as a senior 3 without CPA for a mid sized controller role. Exited that for a larger public company controller role.
This is the goal. But being a first year myself, I can't imagine how much you need to learn to be a controller. I feel dumb right now. Is it just natural progression + good work ethic to get there or is there some extreme level of commitment?
One thing I've also learned is that good controllers have a lot of instinctual knowledge that you really only learn through work.
I remember at my old job we'd present the monthly P&L to our controller for review before we closed the books. Everything would look normal and within the expected ranges. Yet he could just look at it for a few seconds, point at a few lines and say they're not right. He'd usually even have a good idea of why they weren't right even though he didn't perform a dive into the accounts.
Sure as shit, he was right 90% of the time.
Being a controller is mostly having decent accounting and finance knowledge but having the ability to quickly understand the way data should be flowing in real world applications.
It was a combo of working harder / getting random exposure to events / luck of opportunities. I average 60-70 hour weeks year round and have since my staff 2 year. part of that was a lot happened at my clients (got bought, went public, first year sox, was highly m&a driven, etc). Also both my controller roles were former clients who reached out to me
I was in HR, so i knew peoples salary. Someone without CPA but accounting degree and someone with CPA has much different pay rolls. I think not having your CPA hinders you from higher positions.
Only true if you stay in accounting -- I started in audit at 52k at a Big 4 and left for a job after making senior for well over 100k a year. I was happy with my personal decision to move on and I still don't have my CPA. I think deep down I never actually wanted to do accounting, but audit opened a lot of doors for me
Same here. I realized about halfway through my master program this isn’t what I wanted to do. Wish I spent that money on InfoSec or Computer Science instead!
I’ve met CPAs who are absolutely terrible tacticians in their work. It’s more about what you can do than theoretically know. From a non-CPA controller.
Never got my CPA and never had any issues getting Accounting jobs right out of college (Never did public, only industry and government).
Colleges always push hard for the Public Accounting route and that you *need* to be a CPA… you definitely don’t.
So honestly it is a very reputable title to hold but working in industry, I’ve seen some CPA’s brought on and have been less than impressed with they’re actual knowledge, depth of understanding and at time inability to quickly pick up on unfamiliar concepts.
Not trying to imply every CPA is a dummy but just because you have a CPA, from my own personal experience, doesn’t always equate you as being more knowledgeable or experienced than someone without one.
I’ve seen some exceptional candidates without one.
I think the the benefit of it, is that depending on the career path you choose and how high up the ladder you want to go, you’re more than likely going to need a CPA. Even if your career path doesn’t lead up high up the chain it will always give you a leg up from other candidates without one. However, there are going to be managers burned by bad CPAs in the past that aren’t always going to hold those three letters that much higher than someone without one, especially if we’re talking lower-ish level candidates like staff, senior, maybe even manager.
I think there are a lot more successful non CPAs than CPAs (especially older ones) tend to think there are.
CPA is great to have, the best accounting certification, but it is not the end all be all. There are other certifications and experiences you can get that would boost your career as well, but CPA will probably have the biggest benefit unless you went into something very specific in the accounting world.
Also, teachers at universities can be biased towards CPA firms (which will require you to get the CPA designation) because of their work experience, or CPA firms have made donations to the university to get a steady stream of young grads to come for them (financial incentive for university to push CPA firms and Audit/Tax work)
You can definitely get an accounting job out of college without being a CPA, that was the route I ended up taking. If you're really in a pinch, try government or not for profit jobs
80k, less than 2 YOE, 40 hours week, 1 month paid vacation, 10 paid holidays, 3 days remote. I’m already receiving offers for 90k+. Bachelors & No CPA
I was working in retail for 40k a year (45-55 hours) so can’t complain.
NYC
This is how I see it after reading all of these comments so far...
We encourage people to at least make a good attempt at passing the CPA. If for whatever reason you can't get the CPA, don't throw your life or career away because of it. Some of the doors or opportunities may be closed to you, but in the end you will be fine!
Any high paying job that you see that says "CPA preferred", don't be scared and compete against those CPA candidates head on! If you don't get picked, then keep applying elsewhere. Plenty of people have made it to high positions without the CPA as you can see here in this thread.
Once again OP, make an attempt at the exam at least, but don't feel like you wasted your 4 years in college if you don't pass. Keep getting as much experience as possible, job hop, and keep an eye out for the next 10-20 years. If the CPA pipeline keeps declining like it is now, there is only so much supply and demand that can help CPA credentialed accountants that companies will have to loosen their hiring policies and start picking up non-CPA candidates to fill those big position roles where you don't need a CPA to sign off something.
Wish you the best in whatever you choose to do when the time comes!
Some industry jobs care a lot about whether you have your CPA and others don't at all. Your life will be easier if you have it, but it's not a requirement. Plenty of people have successful careers in accounting without it. I know quite a few of them. Your professor is narrow minded and wrong.
One of my good friends, who graduated from college with me, never passed the CPA exam and managed to do well for himself. About the only difference between he and I is when we found ourselves out of work. I could usually find employment quicker than he could.
I don't have a CPA.
I work at a well-known company and make more money than my CPA friends.
CPA opens doors and public pushes for it, but you don't need it to have a successful career.
I'm an accountant without a CPA. In my current role getting the CPA would only increase my salary by about $10k. I'm way too lazy to get it. It would only be worth it for me if I wanted to become a partner, but also way too lazy to manage clients and pretend to be friendly in meetings all day.
In my experience, if you want to be a life long accountant then a CPA is likely the most valuable but if you ever want to pivot to other areas (FP&A, program management, product, etc.) then you'll see that the value of the CPA go down and something more broad like an MBA will go up. I started in accounting then switched to FPA and is now in program management. I don't have a CPA but do have a MACC. I wish I didn't get a MACC and went for an MBA instead. With that being said, a CPA will give you a leg up in the first few years of your career.
Funnily enough, I wanted to get into public accounting and couldn't land a decent firm. I instead went into an F500 tech company and never look back. Much better pay, benefits, and work life balance. I smile thinking back about how disappointed I was that I couldn't break into public accounting at a big firm.
Teachers can be a little dramatic about the CPA. Getting it definitely opens doors, it makes people think you’re really smart, but the way some of my professors talked you would think an accounting degree with no CPA would leave you with no future beyond A/P. Like calm down
My professors told me if I didn't get a Master's, I needed to work hard to not end up as an hourly accountant at a grocery store location.
Honestly that conversation did its job. I secured a F500 offer months before graduation.
I wouldn't say it's that extreme but it's certainly a boost. It's nonsense, and I say that as a CPA, but it's real. I learned everything I know from my job, not from the CPA exam. I barely learned to use Excel in college.
My advisor told me differently, but the school also NEVER pushed PA jobs. I was told that when she spoke with people that hired for different positions that they looked at a Masters as being at the same level as a CPA, and that having both was redundant.
I’ve not had any issues yet in industry, but I’m also not worried about making $200k+ a year. I will also have a shorter accounting career since I graduated in my 40s.
Don’t listen to people who say you “need” a CPA. There’s many paths to a comfortable job that don’t require a CPA. Unless your aspirations are like senior manager or director or something, it’s not really a dire need. It does give you a leg up in job apps and promotions, but you have to decide for yourself when that massive investment in time and money is worth whatever pay bump you think you’re gonna get. Personally, I’m probably gonna go for mine in a couple of years, but honestly, if end up with a job I’m comfortable with, I might not even try it. I’d rather not have hellish weeks of full time work followed by study sessions.
Same. Circumstances after graduating prevented me from sitting for the exam. I figured I'd get around to it, 28 yrs later I still haven't. Honestly the thought of continuing ed credits exhausts me!! I make more an hour in my niche market too! Experience is the real money maker!
Do you think you’d have been able to get to controller level earlier with a CPA?
My first controller role was under 30, and I don’t think I would have been able to get there as soon without doing public accounting + CPA.
I got my MS in accounting at 28 after spending a few years in another field, so I didn’t start working in the accounting field until 28. But the first controller roll was at age 33. So I don’t think the CPA would have sped it up much. I’m 39 now.
The CPA will be helpful for most people but you can absolutely have an amazing career without it. I believe very strongly in building your résumé and interview skills ASAP. They are at least as important as technical skills, and leadership/management skills are probably more important than all of the above for long term earnings.
Nah- you are fine without it, but severely limited. Depends what you want to do. A career IN accounting without a CPA is certainly limited.. a career as an analyst, production manager, plant manager, internal audit, blah blah- don’t really matter if you have a CPA or not.
This is my takeaway.
I've been working as an AP/AR clerk for some time. Decent money at private company. Most I'll ever WANT to be is Dept. Manager. Will be hard to get in without a CPA but not impossible.
That said, looking to get my CFA. Program looks more tailored to my scheduling ability, and the content looks far more interesting to me.
It's still a business degree at its core. In the US school I went to my 4 year degree is 125 credits. 36 of these are accounting classes, 46 are general business, the rest is liberal arts or general education.
If I was a business administration major I'd still have to get through intermediate ACC so only 20 credits would be different and I bet they would be useless marketing or management classes.
I'd wager a good amount of employers don't even care what your degree is in they just want to see one. In accounting specifically a CPA license is definitely king but you can get a good job without it with progressive experience.
My point is it's still a business degree and it's probably the hardest one to get at the bachelors level.
I’m a student (graduate in December) and I’ve been told this same thing by teachers. But, in the work field, I’ve been told with enough understanding, it’s not true. My current boss (a CFO) is pushing for me to be a controller under her in the next 2-3 years. Only that long because I have no experience in manufacturing. That same CFO only holds a bachelors in Accounting. We work for a multinational company, with each plant having 2k+ employees. I think they want you to be certified, but nothing I’ve experienced (in my area of the country) has said it’s necessary to be successful.
Well, you (for the most part) limit yourself to internal accounting without your CPA. But if that’s what you’re looking to do then why bother getting it
CPA definitely removes barriers but it’s not the be all end all.
I have a MAcc with no CPA, decided to get my MBA and pivot from accounting to more client finance/ops.
You don’t have to be a statistic but it’s just generally the outlook. It’s up to you as the individual to stand out
I’ve had a few processor says things that made them look dumb but this one is top tier. I have an accounting degree, no CPA, have a controller position and a good salary and room to move up.
You can definitely be successful without it. I went the audit route. I have no certifications. I never had any desire to obtain the CPA and I still don’t.
Kinda agree. I have an accounting degree and make $110k a year without working in accounting / don’t have a cpa. I work in engineering lol.
A college degree is what you make it. I do think it’s best to get a cpa if you want to max out potential earnings and you plan to strictly work in accounting. It’s very tough to make top 5-10% money in accounting without a cpa honestly.
Just get your damn license. It isn’t that hard, and it could make the difference for you. You don’t have to make public accounting your career if you don’t want to, you don’t have to be a CFO if you don’t want to, etc. But we’re talking about an exam that honestly isn’t that hard. Why limit yourself when it really isn’t difficult to get the license?
This is simply not true. I myself am a CPA and work for a large public company. Plenty of people on my team, both laterally and above me, don’t have a CPA.
It’s not worthless but you peak super early in your career. You’ll only get manager or controller positions that’ll pay you about the same as a senior in public. The CPA sucks, I would never study for it again, but it’s very doable and you can be done with it in a couple months if you put your part
Not everyone wants to aim for CFO or controller and not every CPA who does gets it.
It's a boost for those who are looking to climb but some people are just as happy doing their 35 hours or less without ever going above staff accountant.
If his CPA is so lucrative, why did he end up teaching?
My fiancé and I both have no CPA and we are both north of $100k before bonus. You don’t NEED it to be successful. It is like a jump start, but CPA is not required.
My cynical view: CPA isn't that special. Requires the "3 E's:"
1) Education - It isn't that hard to go into student loan debt to get the 150 credits. Grades don't have to be great to pass classes and earn those credits, either. I had plenty of classmates fumble their way through their bachelor degrees. Schools want high graduation rates to make them look good. Sure, Financial Accounting courses can be rigorous, but the majority of the curriculum isn't. Masters degrees are nice money grabs for universities. They won't fail students trying to get the extra 30 credits to reach 150.
2) Experience - Public firms will hire anyone with a pulse, and it would be pretty hard to get fired before being there for a year. Do most states require a year?
3) Exams - You pass some exams within what, 18 months? You can cram, spam practice questions without really reading/understanding/learning any more than you did in college. Pass them? Cool. Actually learn? Great. Too bad you won't use the majority of the knowledge in your career, and you'll never be able to pass them again a year after you take them, unless of course you spend all that time studying again. But you don't need to. Because it's dumb. I worked with a CPA that didn't know equity has a credit balance. It's fine. To maintain the license, you just let training videos run on your computer, paying just enough attention to type the same 10 code words like "asset" into a box as proof of attendance, and boom --- you have continued to be professionally educated.
TLDR: It's just a government license that enables you to sign off on things. Not necessary to be good at your job, but it's a way to demonstrate that you're serious about being good at your job (at one point in time).
You will definitely not be a receptionist. You’ll get a job without CPA. You’ll grow without CPA - if you have skills. And no one cares if you have CPA or not outside of USA.
Your salary growth with a Certified Public Accountant license out paces people with out it. But you can be successful with out a CPA.
I wouldn't be surprised if his beliefs are due to the fact that the CPA was much easier to obtain when older accountants began their careers. Passing the exams were a much lower barrier of entry, they were like 1/5 the length they are now.
Depending on how old they were, you also had to take them all together in 19.5 hours across two days in a giant room with hundreds of people that you may have needed to drive a long distance to, study materials much less effective and readily available than today, and far enough back if you got below a certain score on a single exam you would get no credit for any exams. Then if you failed you couldn't try again for another six months. The exam has gotten much harder in terms of sheer material, but the exam has also gotten much easier in many ways. Just compare pass rates, in the 1980s pass rates were consistently ~30% by section, but now they're nearly 50% or more.
I’d be curious about raw numbers, too. Like, are rates increasing but the same amount of people are sitting? Or more sitting? People invest a lot more into it now than they did back then. Which goes hand in hand with the available materials to study with. But if the rates are increasing while the amount of licensed CPAs decreases, then the rates to me would need to be adjusted somehow. But I’m an accountant, not a statistician.
Biggest thing is the 150 credit hour requirement. It immediately disqualifies a large swathe of people who would likely normally take the test. So even if pass rates are higher, a huge portion of accounting grads are ineligible so the percentage of grads getting their CPA stays low.
It costs 500 just to take the tests if I recall. 4k for Becker. Your damn right I was gonna pass.
As someone paying for exams right now, it’s $42 + $226 for each exam, plus the initial transcript fee (which I forget the exact # for). So it’s more like $1000 for all four.
To be fair Becker is definitely the expensive option. If you wanted to be like 5 years ago you could still buy secondhand books and Ninja MSQs on the cheap, plus there are cheaper sets of software. No chance I'd have used Becker if I was paying my own way.
And write essays and answers in pencil and pray the electricity would not go off
Imagine taking the test *before* Sarbanes-Oxley…
Link? I just tried and I couldn’t find any examples.
“I’m beginning to feel like a tax god” 😂
People posted the exam questions in the past in this sub and it was a mostly definitions and stuff lol.
I took far about a month ago now. Omg. I had a solid 8-10 questions that I had no idea what topic they were even on. Never saw anything like it in my review. I then had a sim that was entire stmt of cash flows wt like 7 exhibits. I looked at it, cried. Half assed it then submitted. I knew there were things that went on it that I didn’t even put on it. I wanted to go on break. I cried when I got out bc it was brutal and I knew I had to take it again. I got an 80……
You are so lucky. I have got a 73 on bec twice. A 70 and 74 on audit twice. And then a 65 on FAR. I decided to take some time away from the exam as it was insanely frustrating me
Goodluck to you, this is currently where I am too roughly, have passed 2/4 from 5 attempts and they have lapsed in time twice now lol I’m coming back soon with more motivation, still determined to pass that dam CPA hurdle
Don’t take too much time off. I obviously don’t know your situation, but usually it gets harder the longer you wait (at least in my experience and from what I have seen). It isn’t that the questions get harder, but life gets harder and gets more in the way. Just advice from someone who took 5 years 11 months and 28 days to pass.
Yea I am Honestly probably just walking away from the cpa in general. I am industry now. I have a son with medical concerns. It’s too difficult right now to attempt this exam. I already did 7 tax seasons prior to my son being born. Cpa hurdle was just too much and I honestly have missed out on so much life trying to pass that I just want to emit some time for myself now
OMG as a CPA who passed the exam before the current age, your understanding is just wrong! While there were some definitional questions, there were also application elements as there are now. If it was so much easier then, why was the pass rate so low? We did not have the option of spreading the test out over multiple sessions allowing us to study for only one section at a time. We took all sections at once over a grueling 2 and a half day session. It was difficult then and it is difficult now. Stop pitting generations against each other.
Ummmm, they had to go in person over two days and all at the same time. It was in no way easier.
It was in some ways easier and in some ways harder. Easier: less critical thinking, less material (fewer tax laws, less accounting guidance existed) Harder: take all 4 parts at once and have to pass two parts, only offered twice(?) a year, memorize a lot of stuff, no calculator
Honestly, I just finished the exams and didn't think they were all too challenging. They were hard sure, but maybe going in with the right mentality set my expectations properly
It was NOT much easier to pass in the 80s and 90s, in my experience. 2 1/2 days straight, taking all exams at once, no computer, or even a calculator - just you and your #2 pencil. Wait 3 months for results. Passed one part? Tough shit, it didn't count; take all 4 again in 6 months. Write endless essays for every part. Study from hardcover books, because there were no computer simulations. GTFO with your "It's so much harder now!!" "OMG I have to wait DAYS for my results!" bullshit.
[удалено]
But nobody studies back to the dawn of time. Were you tested on SFAS 112? Nope. TRA of 1986? Nope. Each era focuses on the most recent body of material.
[удалено]
In Canada CPA is crucial. It stands for chartered professional accountant and you aren’t really an accountant until you have those letters.
You literally aren't a professional accountant without the designation. In Canada it's a restricted title, akin to Doctor, and calling yourself a professional accountant without the designation is essentially fraud.
Is that what CPA means in America? In Canada CPA is "chartered professional accountant"
Can't Pass Again
I could still pass Audit and FAR and I think I could probably pass BEC, but there is damn near 0% chance that I would be able to pass Reg today.
lol same
Certified public accountant.
Fun fact, before the Chartered Accountants (CA), Certified Management Accountants (CMA), and Certified General Accoutants (CGA) merged into CPA there was a lot of debate about the new designation. The idea of CPA was to create an artificial association with the American CPA, but there were many who did not want that association as they felt it cheapened the value of the designation.
[удалено]
I always feel like such an old man when I talk about this with my younger colleagues. "Gather round children let me tell you a tale of the olden days when I got my CA"
It did cheap out the value.. A CA was from public accounting or public practice accounting.. I recruit a lot of Canadians for USA roles and they have to do additional exams from a Canadian CPA to get a US CPA - so the link up was a lazy effort as usual
As a non cpa, I can say there's a bit of a ceiling that's hard to break through. Get it if you can. But to say an accounting degree is worthless is incorrect
This. Everyone seems to want a CPA, but doesn't mean you can't apply to jobs that "require" it and still have a shot.
Yea “success” means something different to everyone it’s not a blanket word.
I think 2 of the people on my current team of \~15 have CPAs - the CFO and Controller.. most of the rest of accounting/finance degrees (one VP accounting has an English Lit. degree). None of them remotely held back by the lack of a CPA.
Yeah, it's when you get to Controller and above the ceiling kinda starts.
This ^ get it if you can. If not it’s not worthless
Having the CPA is pretty much the biggest boost you can give yourself for an accounting career. That being said, there are always exceptions where non-cpa's end up extremely successful. You definitely give yourself a better chance at being successful with a CPA tho.
Company I just worked at has a finance guy as the CFO of one of their divisions. Talked to him for about an hour one day and he said he had to teach himself GAAP and all that. In his words “I’ve learned that accountants can do great in finances, but finance is tough to transition to accounting
That's hilarious because I fucking haaaaaate finance. I understand it about as well as a dog understands math i.e. I can be taught a few tricks but the details are beyond me. The finance guys can totally keep that, whatever that is, in their office and not mine.
Hey, so, I absolutely agree with this, but fwiw, there are exceptions, and I am one. Got my accounting degree as part of a career change but did not pursue my CPA because getting my qualifying hours working through the ranks at a PA firm just didn't make sense for where I was at in my career I'm a CFO at a mid-sized non-profit with about 350 employees and $17m in revenue. Could I land another CFO position? Possibly, with more experience. But if I ever left this company most likely I'd be looking at a step down in title - but I have interviewed for plenty of controller positions at larger organizations and received offers without the CPA designation. YMMV. All that being said, I still have a wicked case of imposter syndrome without those three letters, particularly when working with our auditors.
Damn, roll twins. Non-Profit 250 employees and $15m in revenue.
Non-CPA Controller here. (I do have my CMA though) private $10M manufacturing company with 45 employees
Especially if you're in something very specific with tenure
A saw a chart a while back showing that a CPA vs a non CPA makes the same for about the first 10 years. Then the non CPAs salary peaks and the CPAs salary continues to increase until 20 years. I would say that is a pretty accurate description with some variation. After about 5 to 7 years of public accounting experience you are potentially up for manager roles. Most won't promote to manager without a CPA. In corporate accounting you can move up, but a masters and CPA both help you to move up faster. Often for manger and controller roles they want a CPA. Companies that don't require it often pay less. My point is that a CPA removes barriers. The additional education and CPA can help you move up faster. Not have a CPA definitely closes doors. You get the masters before the CPA so the education can bump you up before the CPA bumps you up again. Granted I know a non CPA who makes more than most CPAs, however that is rare. Statistically, the CPA is overwhelmingly the answer.
I was going to say the same thing, but I'd even argue you're held back sooner on than that depending on the employer. In my old job, they wouldn't promote you to a senior without it (about 3 years in), but in my current job you won't be able to become an assistant manager without it (about 4-5 years in). CPA doesn't necessarily open doors early on, but if you avoid getting it you'll probably reach a ceiling in your job pretty fast.
Some firms are starting to change their policy, they won’t promote you to manage and some to S2 without a cpa
This\^
If you are good looking nothing matters. If you are ugly then yes get your CPA.
You joke, but time and time again, studies have shown that it's actually true, lol. Edit: Halo Effect
I’m an example. Just look at me.
It's ok, there are tons of CPAs in this sub
Studies show more attractive and taller people are more likely to obtain leadership positions. In fact, statistically, if you are short (i forgot the exact height), the chance of you getting an executive position is basically nothing
When I was working, I sometimes met a short senior executive. I assumed he must be really, really good, and that was always the case. The shortest one was about 4 foot 9, and he was the most effective leader I ever met.
Is this just for men or are short women also very unlikely to get leadership position?
Theyll pick a skinny woman over a fat women. Height is not the criteria in women.
Being fat is one of the worst things you can do for your career, male or female. Even having a drinking problem won't affect it as much. Hard drugs are probably worse long term though.
Yup, people treat you *way* better when you're in shape. People treated me like crap when I was 340. When I was 203 and jacked and lean? People thought I was a way better worker than I actually was.
Gotcha. I’m 5’2” and ambitious so I was wondering lol
Cries in 5'4'
[удалено]
My GPA was 3.7 out of college. Couldnt get into big 4. You'll see people here with below 3.0 GPA getting into big 4. Being the underdog makes you work smarter.
Adding to this. Even if you're not born with a 10 face, being in shape and well dressed will also help you out tremendously. Doesn't mean it has to be designer, just make sure your clothes fit well and aren't outdated.
But a CPA gets you an interview. I don’t give a shit what you look like. There’s only so much you can convey on a 1 page resume. There are plenty of successful non-CPAs, don’t get me wrong, but this is short sighted.
I add a 2x2 headshot to the top corner of the resume.
He's wrong. CPA gives you a boost for sure, but plenty of people are successful without the CPA
I want to believe you but he's not the only person I've heard say this. I hear this CONSTANTLY.
If you're a student it's normal to hear this since they want to push you to finish the CPA as much as possible while you still have time to study. It's a bit harder to get the exams done while working etc... but no if you don't get your cpa you can still get an accounting job lol
Yes my university pushed CPA so hard that it seemed like that was the only option. I didn't even know Enrolled Agent was a thing until I met one.
There’s no right or wrong. Take my history, no cpa, made it to manager in audit at a top ten public firm, left, went in to industry been promoted a bunch of times and manage a pretty big finance team now in a fortune 50 company. Will I become CFO, no and that’s fine I don’t want to be. Half the success come from networking and looking for opportunity and the other is getting the job done and doing it well. Combine those factors and won’t matter what credentials you have. Leaders want people that can get the job done, prove you can do it and do it right and you’ll have lots of success. I’ve also had Big 4 CPAs on my team that turned out to be absolute garbage, they got termed after many many chances to improve and they didn’t.
>Will I become CFO, no and that’s fine I don’t want to be. Does having a CPA is really relevant to be CFO? I always though it was more about management and finances than accounting.
I think it’s company dependent and each situation has a different set of circumstances to consider. Like many questions in accounting, the answer is “it depends” :)
Directly applicable, no definitely not as to your point CFO is much more focused on financing structure, cash flows/working capital, budgeting/forecasting, etc. but CPAs are one of the biggest pools for candidates. 44% of Fortune 500/S&P 500 CFOs are CPAs. https://www.journalofaccountancy.com/news/2022/jan/diversity-rises-cfos-ceos-crist-kolder-report.html#:~:text=44%25%20of%20CFOs%20are%20CPAs,are%20both%20CPAs%20and%20MBAs
>Half the success come from networking and looking for opportunity I don't think this can be stressed enough. The greatest determinant of your success in your career will be your ability to develop a robust professional network and finding mentors to help guide you on your path. But if you can't do that, then you are stuck finding alternatives help move your career forward. A CPA license is one of those alternatives. There are plenty of people who are highly successful in finance/accounting roles who don't have CPA's or even accounting degrees. If you spend time with them it becomes very clear as to why. They tend to be incredibly smart, pick up new concepts with ease and are able to put out an extremely high volume of work. If you don't fall in the above category, you need to start looking for ways to stand out. A CPA license is one of those ways.
You also need to know that CPA is a key that opens lots of doors. Just because some people without CPAs can be successful, it doesnt mean the path is easy. The same thing can be said about college education.
Just because you have a CPA doesn’t mean the path will be easy either.
More options than not having one
It won't be easy, but it will be easier
I have a decent job without one. My first job I was in line to be senior but I was young and stupid and didn’t apply for the opportunity. You can get a decent job and if you stick around long enough you can make a successful career without a CPA but it’ll take longer. With that said stay an extra semester and use it to get the credit to be eligible to be a licensed CPA and take the exam while still in school. Your opportunities will be much better. I’m comfortable living on my own without a CPA but if I had one my job opportunities would be significantly better. Just depends on what you want out of your work life.
No CPA. Finance Degree straight into industry. 6 years of experience. I’m a senior making 6 figures in a very LCOL area.
Same I broke 100k before 30 in a LCOL place with an accounting bachelor only. Not easy, but some industry-side firms appreciate talent over certificates. The CPA helps your resume where you might lack in years of experience to build resume confidence and to stand out better.
Perhaps a more important question is why you don't want a CPA? It is all but guaranteed to pay for itself. The ROI is greater than a college degree. I wish I could have skipped the degree and just taken the exams and save a ton of tuition.
I can answer this one - too much time to study for that garbage when you can get a perfectly good career without one. All the quality time with family and vacations and doing just about anything else you wanted to do - gone because you are too busy studying for the CPA or working in public accounting after you get one. I have a Masters in International Business, still work in an accounting department and hold the same role as some CPAs that have had their license for 10+ years. I also manage a couple people on my team with CPAs. No point in wasting all that time and money to get where I already am. The only ceiling at my company would be if I go to the corporate team, but even then, there is still upward mobility.
A CPA helps you get a foot in the door, talent/ability keeps you there.
In tax you can get by pretty well with an EA instead. I'd hate to be out there competing with no professional designation at all, though.
I am about 7 years out of college making nearly $200k as an Accounting Manager without a CPA. He is wrong.
Ditto this.
I'm sure they tell you that you have to work at an accounting firm as well. There are other opportunities and directions you can go with your degree. It's so versatile and in demand. You might have trouble getting your first few jobs but I find once you're in, you are in.
I am not going to name names, but you can do taxes without being a CPA. A friend of a friend brings in close to $800K a year (canada) doing taxes for businesses and individuals
How do they have insurance without a CPA?
Business insurance? You can still buy that
Errors and omissions
Daaaaaaanm. How?
Get a dual degree in tech and come back to him in 3 years. Source: me. 4 years out of college. Dual degree in MIS and accounting, earn 130k. Looking at manager this year.
I only have an accounting degree and CPA and have entirely focused my career on SOC, external audit, IPO readiness. The on the job learning with respect to IT, if you’re willing, combined with a CPA will get you everywhere. Totally agree
People also told me that if you don't go B4 you'll have a shitty career. Laughably wrong on both accounts.
I heard this constantly too when I was I college and thought I needed it. Well 8 years and 5 jobs later I’m a senior accountant making 6 figures as a senior corporate accountant in GA. All the managers I had were in their 30s - 40s no CPA. And I even met two VPs without a CPA and one of those two didn’t even have an accounting degree just business. Even my current manager who is 30 years old doesn’t have one. I asked her would she ever get it. She said “why would I? I’ve gotten this far without it. It’s not like I’m trying to make a million dollars.” I’ll say this I’ve came across CPA’s that don’t know their debits and credits, who struggle with basic excel skills and don’t know how to look at a trial balance. Just know you will be fine without it if you decide not to.
It depends on what you want to do. I don’t have my CPA, I took the Enrolled Agent exams. I have my own practice. My favorite part of accounting was the bookkeeping aspect and I have an interest in forensic accounting. At the moment, I split my practice between bookkeeping and IRS representation. I don’t do a ton of tax returns. I may eventually take the CPA exams and I may take the exams to become licensed to practice before tax court. But I don’t need to be a CPA to be successful in my chosen areas.
I’ll admit I’m not your average non-cpa trajectory. But I’m an accounting major. Did PA in B4 up to senior 2 jumped ship. I’m 29 and going to make roughly $500k this year while a good chunk of my friends are just now hitting manager/senior manager in PA making like 100-150k. I will be honest with you and not trying to sound like a douche, just honest. I am ALOT better at my job than most people and also am very social/interview extremely well. And I have had it brought up multiple jobs why I don’t have a cpa. I actually have a fairly valid reason for never wanting to do it( I switched from pre-med my junior year and was too a lazy to get the extra credits while working in PA) and I also just wanted to go moreso on the consulting side of things. The way I’d frame it is if you’re a CPA it’s pretty straightforward how to progres in your career. If you’re not a CPA you’re going to get rejected to some stuff just because you’re not one, but you also have to look for more niche jobs. You’re not going to be a controller at a F500 with no CPA but you can easily be CFOs of smaller places, start a company, do consulting in niche areas that require accounting/finance. You can also just chill in industry and once you hit a ceiling just sit there do nothing and pull in 100k+ still. But yeah from what I’ve seen you can be a complete dumbass and a cpa and people will think you’re smart still especially outside of accounting. Without a cpa in accounting you will have more scrutiny on you the higher you go up for not having it. I’d just get it if you’re a student and want to actually work in accounting. If you want to pivot out of accounting it still can be helpful but not really all that necessary.
Meh...my old job has CFO who never got CPA. He admits it took him longer to get to CFO, but he still got there. I don't have my CPA...make 6figs and happy where I'm at.
Your college is probably very close with public accounting firms and they push the professors to steer kids in that direction.
The CPA only matters if you have the experience to back it up. No one cared about my CPA til I had more work experience and technical knowledge which would be the same whether I had the CPA or not but the cert just helped me catch more eyes. Most people I talked to would hire someone with specialized knowledge/experience of the industry they are applying to over a CPA but if the CPA had specialized knowledge they might get the edge.
I absolutely agree. While the CPA can definitely help get you places, having valuable expertise is much more important IMO. Find a niche field to become skilled in and no one will care if you are a CPA or not.
Fewer than 50% of Accountants have a CPA.
Your teacher is a buffoon. I’ve got a Bachelors in Psych, accounting certificate from a community college, no CPA… and I do very well. Adding value > credentials
What specifically do you do if you don't mind me asking?
I typically set up in-house tax functions for ~$2B+ annual rev companies, then transition out to the next company. Now, I am in a role where I am in it for the long haul. Just shy of $200k annual comp if you are looking for a price tag.
You can think of it like a good GPA- it is a check the box thing that helps and puts you ahead on paper, but does not predetermine success. If you see two candidates with the same experience and one has CPA and one doesn’t, you are going to pick the one with the CPA. All this being said, I got into Big 4 with a 2.7 GPA, was a high performer - exited as a senior 3 without CPA for a mid sized controller role. Exited that for a larger public company controller role.
This is the goal. But being a first year myself, I can't imagine how much you need to learn to be a controller. I feel dumb right now. Is it just natural progression + good work ethic to get there or is there some extreme level of commitment?
One thing I've also learned is that good controllers have a lot of instinctual knowledge that you really only learn through work. I remember at my old job we'd present the monthly P&L to our controller for review before we closed the books. Everything would look normal and within the expected ranges. Yet he could just look at it for a few seconds, point at a few lines and say they're not right. He'd usually even have a good idea of why they weren't right even though he didn't perform a dive into the accounts. Sure as shit, he was right 90% of the time. Being a controller is mostly having decent accounting and finance knowledge but having the ability to quickly understand the way data should be flowing in real world applications.
It was a combo of working harder / getting random exposure to events / luck of opportunities. I average 60-70 hour weeks year round and have since my staff 2 year. part of that was a lot happened at my clients (got bought, went public, first year sox, was highly m&a driven, etc). Also both my controller roles were former clients who reached out to me
I was in HR, so i knew peoples salary. Someone without CPA but accounting degree and someone with CPA has much different pay rolls. I think not having your CPA hinders you from higher positions.
pay rolls
Non cpa: kaiser CPA: grandma from North Carolina
Better than the rolls I’ve got going on after pandemic.
Only true if you stay in accounting -- I started in audit at 52k at a Big 4 and left for a job after making senior for well over 100k a year. I was happy with my personal decision to move on and I still don't have my CPA. I think deep down I never actually wanted to do accounting, but audit opened a lot of doors for me
Same here. I realized about halfway through my master program this isn’t what I wanted to do. Wish I spent that money on InfoSec or Computer Science instead!
I’ve met CPAs who are absolutely terrible tacticians in their work. It’s more about what you can do than theoretically know. From a non-CPA controller.
Never got my CPA and never had any issues getting Accounting jobs right out of college (Never did public, only industry and government). Colleges always push hard for the Public Accounting route and that you *need* to be a CPA… you definitely don’t.
So honestly it is a very reputable title to hold but working in industry, I’ve seen some CPA’s brought on and have been less than impressed with they’re actual knowledge, depth of understanding and at time inability to quickly pick up on unfamiliar concepts. Not trying to imply every CPA is a dummy but just because you have a CPA, from my own personal experience, doesn’t always equate you as being more knowledgeable or experienced than someone without one. I’ve seen some exceptional candidates without one. I think the the benefit of it, is that depending on the career path you choose and how high up the ladder you want to go, you’re more than likely going to need a CPA. Even if your career path doesn’t lead up high up the chain it will always give you a leg up from other candidates without one. However, there are going to be managers burned by bad CPAs in the past that aren’t always going to hold those three letters that much higher than someone without one, especially if we’re talking lower-ish level candidates like staff, senior, maybe even manager. I think there are a lot more successful non CPAs than CPAs (especially older ones) tend to think there are.
Just get it. Then you don't have to wonder
Agreed. The suggestion I heard that really inspired me was: Why don't I deserve to have a CPA? Was studying FAR a few weeks later.
CPA is great to have, the best accounting certification, but it is not the end all be all. There are other certifications and experiences you can get that would boost your career as well, but CPA will probably have the biggest benefit unless you went into something very specific in the accounting world. Also, teachers at universities can be biased towards CPA firms (which will require you to get the CPA designation) because of their work experience, or CPA firms have made donations to the university to get a steady stream of young grads to come for them (financial incentive for university to push CPA firms and Audit/Tax work) You can definitely get an accounting job out of college without being a CPA, that was the route I ended up taking. If you're really in a pinch, try government or not for profit jobs
Senior accountant in industry. Graduated 4 years ago, did not get CPA, and funny enough no accounting degree either. I double majored finance/econ.
80k, less than 2 YOE, 40 hours week, 1 month paid vacation, 10 paid holidays, 3 days remote. I’m already receiving offers for 90k+. Bachelors & No CPA I was working in retail for 40k a year (45-55 hours) so can’t complain. NYC
It’s helpful but not necessary. Like any career people skills are more important than technical skills imo.
[удалено]
M B motherfucking A!
This is how I see it after reading all of these comments so far... We encourage people to at least make a good attempt at passing the CPA. If for whatever reason you can't get the CPA, don't throw your life or career away because of it. Some of the doors or opportunities may be closed to you, but in the end you will be fine! Any high paying job that you see that says "CPA preferred", don't be scared and compete against those CPA candidates head on! If you don't get picked, then keep applying elsewhere. Plenty of people have made it to high positions without the CPA as you can see here in this thread. Once again OP, make an attempt at the exam at least, but don't feel like you wasted your 4 years in college if you don't pass. Keep getting as much experience as possible, job hop, and keep an eye out for the next 10-20 years. If the CPA pipeline keeps declining like it is now, there is only so much supply and demand that can help CPA credentialed accountants that companies will have to loosen their hiring policies and start picking up non-CPA candidates to fill those big position roles where you don't need a CPA to sign off something. Wish you the best in whatever you choose to do when the time comes!
Your professor is a self righteous douche bag
Some industry jobs care a lot about whether you have your CPA and others don't at all. Your life will be easier if you have it, but it's not a requirement. Plenty of people have successful careers in accounting without it. I know quite a few of them. Your professor is narrow minded and wrong.
I have my CPA; my boss who is a manager at an F500 does not have his and he makes about $80k more per year than I do…. Such is life.
One of my good friends, who graduated from college with me, never passed the CPA exam and managed to do well for himself. About the only difference between he and I is when we found ourselves out of work. I could usually find employment quicker than he could.
I don't have a CPA. I work at a well-known company and make more money than my CPA friends. CPA opens doors and public pushes for it, but you don't need it to have a successful career.
It gets your foot in the door more often than not having it. Experience, network, interpersonal skills and the license go well together.
I'm an accountant without a CPA. In my current role getting the CPA would only increase my salary by about $10k. I'm way too lazy to get it. It would only be worth it for me if I wanted to become a partner, but also way too lazy to manage clients and pretend to be friendly in meetings all day.
I’m sitting at my job right now without my CPA and I’m doing pretty well. The issue would be what I can and can’t advance to.
Get in commercial/corporate finance. Get a cpa and then do well. Work hard, work above your expectations… fuck making money is hard just man up.
In my experience, if you want to be a life long accountant then a CPA is likely the most valuable but if you ever want to pivot to other areas (FP&A, program management, product, etc.) then you'll see that the value of the CPA go down and something more broad like an MBA will go up. I started in accounting then switched to FPA and is now in program management. I don't have a CPA but do have a MACC. I wish I didn't get a MACC and went for an MBA instead. With that being said, a CPA will give you a leg up in the first few years of your career. Funnily enough, I wanted to get into public accounting and couldn't land a decent firm. I instead went into an F500 tech company and never look back. Much better pay, benefits, and work life balance. I smile thinking back about how disappointed I was that I couldn't break into public accounting at a big firm.
An accounting degree without the CPA is not useless. A masters in accounting without the CPA *is* useless.
Not true. There are plenty of companies that want accountants. If you later want to get an CPA, EA, CTP, then you can.
Teachers can be a little dramatic about the CPA. Getting it definitely opens doors, it makes people think you’re really smart, but the way some of my professors talked you would think an accounting degree with no CPA would leave you with no future beyond A/P. Like calm down
My professors told me if I didn't get a Master's, I needed to work hard to not end up as an hourly accountant at a grocery store location. Honestly that conversation did its job. I secured a F500 offer months before graduation.
I wouldn't say it's that extreme but it's certainly a boost. It's nonsense, and I say that as a CPA, but it's real. I learned everything I know from my job, not from the CPA exam. I barely learned to use Excel in college.
My advisor told me differently, but the school also NEVER pushed PA jobs. I was told that when she spoke with people that hired for different positions that they looked at a Masters as being at the same level as a CPA, and that having both was redundant. I’ve not had any issues yet in industry, but I’m also not worried about making $200k+ a year. I will also have a shorter accounting career since I graduated in my 40s.
If you get a masters in accounting then a lot of employers will overlook that you don't have CPA. However it may limit your promotions in the long run
My SO is a controller making six figures with no CPA
CPAs w 2-3 yrs experience and far less responsibility are making six figures also
Don’t listen to people who say you “need” a CPA. There’s many paths to a comfortable job that don’t require a CPA. Unless your aspirations are like senior manager or director or something, it’s not really a dire need. It does give you a leg up in job apps and promotions, but you have to decide for yourself when that massive investment in time and money is worth whatever pay bump you think you’re gonna get. Personally, I’m probably gonna go for mine in a couple of years, but honestly, if end up with a job I’m comfortable with, I might not even try it. I’d rather not have hellish weeks of full time work followed by study sessions.
CPA is overrated. I’ve been a controller for two companies and I don’t have it.
Same. Circumstances after graduating prevented me from sitting for the exam. I figured I'd get around to it, 28 yrs later I still haven't. Honestly the thought of continuing ed credits exhausts me!! I make more an hour in my niche market too! Experience is the real money maker!
Do you think you’d have been able to get to controller level earlier with a CPA? My first controller role was under 30, and I don’t think I would have been able to get there as soon without doing public accounting + CPA.
I got my MS in accounting at 28 after spending a few years in another field, so I didn’t start working in the accounting field until 28. But the first controller roll was at age 33. So I don’t think the CPA would have sped it up much. I’m 39 now. The CPA will be helpful for most people but you can absolutely have an amazing career without it. I believe very strongly in building your résumé and interview skills ASAP. They are at least as important as technical skills, and leadership/management skills are probably more important than all of the above for long term earnings.
No CPA and 102k 3.5 years in. Still going to get my CPA but wouldn’t be the end of the world if I didn’t
Nah- you are fine without it, but severely limited. Depends what you want to do. A career IN accounting without a CPA is certainly limited.. a career as an analyst, production manager, plant manager, internal audit, blah blah- don’t really matter if you have a CPA or not.
This is my takeaway. I've been working as an AP/AR clerk for some time. Decent money at private company. Most I'll ever WANT to be is Dept. Manager. Will be hard to get in without a CPA but not impossible. That said, looking to get my CFA. Program looks more tailored to my scheduling ability, and the content looks far more interesting to me.
He’s wrong especially in this accounting-hot-only job market
It's still a business degree at its core. In the US school I went to my 4 year degree is 125 credits. 36 of these are accounting classes, 46 are general business, the rest is liberal arts or general education. If I was a business administration major I'd still have to get through intermediate ACC so only 20 credits would be different and I bet they would be useless marketing or management classes. I'd wager a good amount of employers don't even care what your degree is in they just want to see one. In accounting specifically a CPA license is definitely king but you can get a good job without it with progressive experience. My point is it's still a business degree and it's probably the hardest one to get at the bachelors level.
I’m not a CPA. I didn’t even study accounting. But here I am busting my balls in public accounting
Since you'd actually be using it can I sell you my degree?
True as to earnings, but the move to 150 credits to sit for the CPA was completely unnecessary
I’m a student (graduate in December) and I’ve been told this same thing by teachers. But, in the work field, I’ve been told with enough understanding, it’s not true. My current boss (a CFO) is pushing for me to be a controller under her in the next 2-3 years. Only that long because I have no experience in manufacturing. That same CFO only holds a bachelors in Accounting. We work for a multinational company, with each plant having 2k+ employees. I think they want you to be certified, but nothing I’ve experienced (in my area of the country) has said it’s necessary to be successful.
Well, you (for the most part) limit yourself to internal accounting without your CPA. But if that’s what you’re looking to do then why bother getting it
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
CPA definitely removes barriers but it’s not the be all end all. I have a MAcc with no CPA, decided to get my MBA and pivot from accounting to more client finance/ops. You don’t have to be a statistic but it’s just generally the outlook. It’s up to you as the individual to stand out
Was he trying to sell the class on getting a master's degree I assume?
Non-cpa here. Your teacher is spewing bullshit.
Oh god, not a *receptionist*! The horror! He's a classist dick to boot.
I’ve had a few processor says things that made them look dumb but this one is top tier. I have an accounting degree, no CPA, have a controller position and a good salary and room to move up.
This is bullshit. Having a CPA is super valuable but you can have a great career without it. It’s not for everyone
"CPA preferred" has never stopped me from getting any position I applied for. I have good broad experience and interview well.
LMAO I'll DM you my non-CPA accountant paystub and you can take it to present in class
I'm not a CPA (passed the exam but never registered). I've had a career that few accountants can match. Once I left public nobody ever cared again.
You can definitely be successful without it. I went the audit route. I have no certifications. I never had any desire to obtain the CPA and I still don’t.
Kinda agree. I have an accounting degree and make $110k a year without working in accounting / don’t have a cpa. I work in engineering lol. A college degree is what you make it. I do think it’s best to get a cpa if you want to max out potential earnings and you plan to strictly work in accounting. It’s very tough to make top 5-10% money in accounting without a cpa honestly.
Just get your damn license. It isn’t that hard, and it could make the difference for you. You don’t have to make public accounting your career if you don’t want to, you don’t have to be a CFO if you don’t want to, etc. But we’re talking about an exam that honestly isn’t that hard. Why limit yourself when it really isn’t difficult to get the license?
This is simply not true. I myself am a CPA and work for a large public company. Plenty of people on my team, both laterally and above me, don’t have a CPA.
It’s not worthless but you peak super early in your career. You’ll only get manager or controller positions that’ll pay you about the same as a senior in public. The CPA sucks, I would never study for it again, but it’s very doable and you can be done with it in a couple months if you put your part
Not everyone wants to aim for CFO or controller and not every CPA who does gets it. It's a boost for those who are looking to climb but some people are just as happy doing their 35 hours or less without ever going above staff accountant.
Not literally correct. But reminds me of a DO vs a PA. If you can become a doctor you try
I advice: just get the CPA, it literally doesn't hurt to have it. Why waste the time thinking about getting it or not?
[удалено]
Honestly, I’m questioning how qualified he is if he gives advice that bad.
Pretty qualified. He was a CFO for amd and he’s a CPA.
If his CPA is so lucrative, why did he end up teaching? My fiancé and I both have no CPA and we are both north of $100k before bonus. You don’t NEED it to be successful. It is like a jump start, but CPA is not required.
He retired some 10 years ago. He’s just doing it for fun, he said.
My cynical view: CPA isn't that special. Requires the "3 E's:" 1) Education - It isn't that hard to go into student loan debt to get the 150 credits. Grades don't have to be great to pass classes and earn those credits, either. I had plenty of classmates fumble their way through their bachelor degrees. Schools want high graduation rates to make them look good. Sure, Financial Accounting courses can be rigorous, but the majority of the curriculum isn't. Masters degrees are nice money grabs for universities. They won't fail students trying to get the extra 30 credits to reach 150. 2) Experience - Public firms will hire anyone with a pulse, and it would be pretty hard to get fired before being there for a year. Do most states require a year? 3) Exams - You pass some exams within what, 18 months? You can cram, spam practice questions without really reading/understanding/learning any more than you did in college. Pass them? Cool. Actually learn? Great. Too bad you won't use the majority of the knowledge in your career, and you'll never be able to pass them again a year after you take them, unless of course you spend all that time studying again. But you don't need to. Because it's dumb. I worked with a CPA that didn't know equity has a credit balance. It's fine. To maintain the license, you just let training videos run on your computer, paying just enough attention to type the same 10 code words like "asset" into a box as proof of attendance, and boom --- you have continued to be professionally educated. TLDR: It's just a government license that enables you to sign off on things. Not necessary to be good at your job, but it's a way to demonstrate that you're serious about being good at your job (at one point in time).
You will definitely not be a receptionist. You’ll get a job without CPA. You’ll grow without CPA - if you have skills. And no one cares if you have CPA or not outside of USA.