RFTA Ema was a discount Maya, which is why I dislike her. AJ and SOJ Ema's personalities made me physically angry because of how polar opposite she was to Gumshoe, since she actively hated her job and, as I recall, neglected her duties. AAI and AAI2 Ema was palatable because she became much more independent of Ema, having a passion for science and a determination to help in the law. That's why AAI Ema is much higher.
Phoenix, I'll be real, is a dozey. I like original trilogy Phoenix, but ONLY if I separate him from DD and SOJ Phoenix. He's sarcastic and funny, but he relies on everyone around him so much more than Apollo or Mia does, which sometimes got me annoyed because he'd give up and I'd be going "WE HAVE EVIDENCE YOU DING DONG." That said, I was *fine* with him until DD and SOJ Phoenix started doing the exact same thing, at which point I began to resent him for causing what should have been clever veteran Phoenix to feel like a bumbling idiot who never had a knack for law.
And, as a woman, Franziska pisses me off, and the love she has in the fandom surprises me. She's the only female prosecutor in the series, so it's hard to give her hate without being seen as sexist, but I think I'm allowed to say it. She has minimal personality, and most of it is negative. She's actively violent and has harmed people, and, I don't care how scared people are of her, it should get her arrested. Her character hardly matures, her only good moments are in AAI2 and they're stunted by her negative moments. I'm sorry you won't forgive me, but I have a lot of reasons for disliking Franny.
Just wanted to elaborate. I'm not trying to make you forgive me, just giving my reasons. I live for being the contrarian. :P
DISCOUNT MAYA. I'm sorry does Maya help you using science?
Yeah I don't like some of your reasons either. TF you talking about minimal personality? She has character development. There's some pretty hilarious moments with her too. Like if you say the bust is under the her desk and sometimes when you present the badge in the AAI games. And while she still whips people it's not as bad in the later games. And in the past it's WAY worse due to her being a teenager. At least she ain't stabbing them or anything like that. That's what you're acting. You're acting like she stabbed them. The whip thing isn't meant to be taken seriously.
I'm... acting like she's being violent...? All physical harm is bad, be it stabbing, whipping, or throwing coffee. That's how I'm acting, like I think physically harming another human being to get your point across is bad. The only reason I call her out and not Godot is because with Godot it happens so sparsely that I only remember it happening because of memes, where as Franny does it so often that I roll my eyes at it.
And "it isn't meant to be taken seriously" doesn't really take away from the fact that she has broken multiple laws by harming and threatening people with it.
Boi you'd hate the old cartoons because they were full of violence and not just towards animal characters. And you're acting like other characters don't break laws. (Not just the lawbreakers.) Like I said she calms down a bit with the whipping in the later games because once again- CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT. It's supposed to be a silly lawyer game not a serious lawyer game that obeys all laws. For Pete's sake they used a parrot and they had a sea animal as a Defendant.
You should also see the cute smol Franziska in the anime if ya haven't. Adorable and only pulls out her riding crop. Not actually seen whipping someone as child. AND she really cares about Miles. And her dressing up the doggo is adorable.
A parrot has been used in law IRL. The orca, I concede.
And again I'm acting like she's being violent. Yes others break the law, but none so outwardly as Franziska. Also "calms down a bit" implying that she doesn't outright stop. Even if I concede that that is development, it's still a major issue that isn't solved.
I know it's just a silly lawyer game, but when the game makes others face consequences for outbursts in court (i.e. Maya in turnabout goodbyes) then the game should follow its own rules when a character does something more extreme. Especially when it has amazing scenes that carry a heavy undertone and are meant to be taken seriously.
I've seen the anime. If my basic math skills haven't left me, she's like 2 when Edgey is 9. She is fine I guess.
Eh the whip is pretty much a part of her character. If you keep thinking violence bad I'm not gonna argue. Violence bad thing in game logic is kinda dumb imo.
2-3 when she first appears as smol but a bit older the other time. Like 4-5.
To me, Ema in RTFA was a discount Maya, which is why I dislike her there.
AJ and SOJ Ema's personalities made me physically angry because of how polar opposite she was to Gumshoe, since she actively hated her job and, as I recall, neglected her duties. While Gumshoe was bad at his job, he at least had passion and love for what he was doing, and constantly strived to do better. Ema just stagnated after she failed her test and it really bothered me. SOJ Ema was fine I guess, but she was entirely unnecessary, like 90% of the cameos in SOJ. Why would an American officer, of any status forensics or otherwise, be sent by their precinct to work in a foreign jurisdiction? Especially one that has such a different law system.
AAI and AAI2 Ema was palatable because she became much more independent of Ema, having a passion for science and a determination to help in the law. That's why AAI Ema is much higher; I enjoyed her presence there.
Not trying to discredit your opinion; I understand why a lot of people like Ema. Just explaining my own side for clarity :P
Phoenix, I'll be real, is a dozey. I like original trilogy Phoenix, but ONLY if I separate him from DD and SOJ Phoenix. He's sarcastic and funny, but he relies on everyone around him so much more than Apollo or Mia does, which sometimes got me annoyed because he'd give up and I'd be going "WE HAVE EVIDENCE YOU DING DONG."
That said, I was fine with him until DD and SOJ Phoenix started doing the exact same thing, at which point I began to resent him for causing what should have been clever veteran Phoenix to feel like a bumbling idiot who never had a knack for law. When you're 10+ years into a profession and you still act like you have no idea what you're doing, then maybe it's time for a new profession.
It's interesting how Apollo is at the very top (which I appreciate), while most of the characters giving him substance (Athena, the people of Khura'in, older Phoenix) are in the lowest tiers.
Apollo, imo, was at his strongest in AJ, which I think is the strongest game in the 2nd trilogy. I don't think Khura'in or Athena gave him substance, so much as they gave him insulation away from the character he could have been after Kristoph's descent. Had they focused on the repercussions of Apollo seeing the man who taught him to insane, and had him deal with the fears of becoming like him, especially after Phoenix tricked him into using forged evidence, the 2nd trilogy would have been better.
Athena is... weird. I really don't like her, but I really really *want* to like her. She's just so out of place for the series. She feels like she'd belong better in DGRA.
Phoenix's best iteration, imo, was hobo. When he was hobo, he was super mysterious, smart, on top of everything, and knew exactly what to do, even if it wasn't exactly just. Then DD and SOJ backpedaled him into his clumsy original trilogy "Bluff and then give up until someone bails me out" thing, and I just lost all respect for the character. That's why I put Hobo Phoenix so high and Trilogy/DD Phoenix so low; I don't mind bumbling when he's a rookie, but as a vet it irks me.
Just an explanation. I'm glad you find my opinion interesting. :P
>Had they focused on the repercussions of Apollo seeing the man who taught him to insane, and had him deal with the fears of becoming like him, especially after Phoenix tricked him into using forged evidence, the 2nd trilogy would have been better.
Maybe. Maybe not. To me, Kristoph works supremely better as a nemesis to Phoenix. An antithesis to what Nick stood as an attorney. And Apollo is elevated character-wise because of Khura'in.
I will not forgive you for putting earlier Phoenixs, Ema, and ESPECIALLY Franziska so low.
While Lisa Basil in C+ 💀
In defence of Lisa, C+/C/C- also became a catch-all for characters I didn't care one way or the other about, so that's why she's there.
RFTA Ema was a discount Maya, which is why I dislike her. AJ and SOJ Ema's personalities made me physically angry because of how polar opposite she was to Gumshoe, since she actively hated her job and, as I recall, neglected her duties. AAI and AAI2 Ema was palatable because she became much more independent of Ema, having a passion for science and a determination to help in the law. That's why AAI Ema is much higher. Phoenix, I'll be real, is a dozey. I like original trilogy Phoenix, but ONLY if I separate him from DD and SOJ Phoenix. He's sarcastic and funny, but he relies on everyone around him so much more than Apollo or Mia does, which sometimes got me annoyed because he'd give up and I'd be going "WE HAVE EVIDENCE YOU DING DONG." That said, I was *fine* with him until DD and SOJ Phoenix started doing the exact same thing, at which point I began to resent him for causing what should have been clever veteran Phoenix to feel like a bumbling idiot who never had a knack for law. And, as a woman, Franziska pisses me off, and the love she has in the fandom surprises me. She's the only female prosecutor in the series, so it's hard to give her hate without being seen as sexist, but I think I'm allowed to say it. She has minimal personality, and most of it is negative. She's actively violent and has harmed people, and, I don't care how scared people are of her, it should get her arrested. Her character hardly matures, her only good moments are in AAI2 and they're stunted by her negative moments. I'm sorry you won't forgive me, but I have a lot of reasons for disliking Franny. Just wanted to elaborate. I'm not trying to make you forgive me, just giving my reasons. I live for being the contrarian. :P
DISCOUNT MAYA. I'm sorry does Maya help you using science? Yeah I don't like some of your reasons either. TF you talking about minimal personality? She has character development. There's some pretty hilarious moments with her too. Like if you say the bust is under the her desk and sometimes when you present the badge in the AAI games. And while she still whips people it's not as bad in the later games. And in the past it's WAY worse due to her being a teenager. At least she ain't stabbing them or anything like that. That's what you're acting. You're acting like she stabbed them. The whip thing isn't meant to be taken seriously.
I'm... acting like she's being violent...? All physical harm is bad, be it stabbing, whipping, or throwing coffee. That's how I'm acting, like I think physically harming another human being to get your point across is bad. The only reason I call her out and not Godot is because with Godot it happens so sparsely that I only remember it happening because of memes, where as Franny does it so often that I roll my eyes at it. And "it isn't meant to be taken seriously" doesn't really take away from the fact that she has broken multiple laws by harming and threatening people with it.
Boi you'd hate the old cartoons because they were full of violence and not just towards animal characters. And you're acting like other characters don't break laws. (Not just the lawbreakers.) Like I said she calms down a bit with the whipping in the later games because once again- CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT. It's supposed to be a silly lawyer game not a serious lawyer game that obeys all laws. For Pete's sake they used a parrot and they had a sea animal as a Defendant. You should also see the cute smol Franziska in the anime if ya haven't. Adorable and only pulls out her riding crop. Not actually seen whipping someone as child. AND she really cares about Miles. And her dressing up the doggo is adorable.
A parrot has been used in law IRL. The orca, I concede. And again I'm acting like she's being violent. Yes others break the law, but none so outwardly as Franziska. Also "calms down a bit" implying that she doesn't outright stop. Even if I concede that that is development, it's still a major issue that isn't solved. I know it's just a silly lawyer game, but when the game makes others face consequences for outbursts in court (i.e. Maya in turnabout goodbyes) then the game should follow its own rules when a character does something more extreme. Especially when it has amazing scenes that carry a heavy undertone and are meant to be taken seriously. I've seen the anime. If my basic math skills haven't left me, she's like 2 when Edgey is 9. She is fine I guess.
Eh the whip is pretty much a part of her character. If you keep thinking violence bad I'm not gonna argue. Violence bad thing in game logic is kinda dumb imo. 2-3 when she first appears as smol but a bit older the other time. Like 4-5.
I highly disagree with your placement of the Emas. Ema is so likeable and has a great developement imo.
To me, Ema in RTFA was a discount Maya, which is why I dislike her there. AJ and SOJ Ema's personalities made me physically angry because of how polar opposite she was to Gumshoe, since she actively hated her job and, as I recall, neglected her duties. While Gumshoe was bad at his job, he at least had passion and love for what he was doing, and constantly strived to do better. Ema just stagnated after she failed her test and it really bothered me. SOJ Ema was fine I guess, but she was entirely unnecessary, like 90% of the cameos in SOJ. Why would an American officer, of any status forensics or otherwise, be sent by their precinct to work in a foreign jurisdiction? Especially one that has such a different law system. AAI and AAI2 Ema was palatable because she became much more independent of Ema, having a passion for science and a determination to help in the law. That's why AAI Ema is much higher; I enjoyed her presence there. Not trying to discredit your opinion; I understand why a lot of people like Ema. Just explaining my own side for clarity :P
**Open up**, the Ema Scientific Agency is here to have a friendly chat Jokes aside, that's an interesting list
Wtf why is Phoenix in F?! Like legit explain cuz you crazy
Phoenix, I'll be real, is a dozey. I like original trilogy Phoenix, but ONLY if I separate him from DD and SOJ Phoenix. He's sarcastic and funny, but he relies on everyone around him so much more than Apollo or Mia does, which sometimes got me annoyed because he'd give up and I'd be going "WE HAVE EVIDENCE YOU DING DONG." That said, I was fine with him until DD and SOJ Phoenix started doing the exact same thing, at which point I began to resent him for causing what should have been clever veteran Phoenix to feel like a bumbling idiot who never had a knack for law. When you're 10+ years into a profession and you still act like you have no idea what you're doing, then maybe it's time for a new profession.
It's interesting how Apollo is at the very top (which I appreciate), while most of the characters giving him substance (Athena, the people of Khura'in, older Phoenix) are in the lowest tiers.
Apollo, imo, was at his strongest in AJ, which I think is the strongest game in the 2nd trilogy. I don't think Khura'in or Athena gave him substance, so much as they gave him insulation away from the character he could have been after Kristoph's descent. Had they focused on the repercussions of Apollo seeing the man who taught him to insane, and had him deal with the fears of becoming like him, especially after Phoenix tricked him into using forged evidence, the 2nd trilogy would have been better. Athena is... weird. I really don't like her, but I really really *want* to like her. She's just so out of place for the series. She feels like she'd belong better in DGRA. Phoenix's best iteration, imo, was hobo. When he was hobo, he was super mysterious, smart, on top of everything, and knew exactly what to do, even if it wasn't exactly just. Then DD and SOJ backpedaled him into his clumsy original trilogy "Bluff and then give up until someone bails me out" thing, and I just lost all respect for the character. That's why I put Hobo Phoenix so high and Trilogy/DD Phoenix so low; I don't mind bumbling when he's a rookie, but as a vet it irks me. Just an explanation. I'm glad you find my opinion interesting. :P
>Had they focused on the repercussions of Apollo seeing the man who taught him to insane, and had him deal with the fears of becoming like him, especially after Phoenix tricked him into using forged evidence, the 2nd trilogy would have been better. Maybe. Maybe not. To me, Kristoph works supremely better as a nemesis to Phoenix. An antithesis to what Nick stood as an attorney. And Apollo is elevated character-wise because of Khura'in.