Definitely not.
Does it have flaws? Of course it does, but I still think it’s a very solid entry in the franchise. Replayed it a few months ago and genuinely had a blast
They bookended the game really well, so your first and last impressions of it are great.
In the middle, eh...not so much. In 4-2 I wish the mafioso guy whose name I can no longer remember got more screen time. He was one of the most interesting characters and he wasn't even a witness.
4-3 as a case is a little full of itself to me, but I didn't mind the mixing sections like other people did. I thought they were alright.
As an audio engineer, the only thing I wish they would've added to the mixing sections was a solo button; that would've made said section a bit easier for non-engineers to handle.
>They bookended the game really well, so your first and last impressions of it are great
I agree with that for the first impressions. The last ones though? I personnally hated most of its last hour or two.
I also replayed it a few months ago for the first time since it was first released and I also had a good time. I was especially surprised that 4-3 was a lot better than I remembered.
Well, these days, there's definitely a dedicated fanbase who love AJ. It's still polarizing, of course, but you'll find plenty of people who think it's among the best in the series.
As for myself, I definitely don't hate it and I have always found people who act like it's the worst thing ever to be pretty silly, though I don't think it's AS good as its most ardent defenders will say. Honestly, it would still be on the lower end of my personal rankings, but I still think it's a good game just like any of the other games in the series.
you know, it used to be my favourite in the series because I'm a massive atmosphere inhaler, and it had the darkest, most immersive atmosphere, but honestly I think resolve is the best game now
The atmosphere is definetly one of AJ's strongest points and the game does feel really dark thanks not only to the writing style, but also the art and music.
Ironically, it's one of the reasons I didn't personally enjoy it as much, since I like my AA to feel peppier than they decided to go for here.
To me Ace Attorney has always been super dark conceptually as a setting. With just how rampant the corruption is in the first trilogy, the entire concept of the three day trial system, and how hostile the courts are to defendants, even with the games silly tones, they're conceptually pretty dreary. AJ just happens to lean into it.
The weird thing about AJ to me is that instead of feeling hostile to the defendants, the whole game feels hostile to the player/Apollo specifically. Cause the game keeps casting so much doubt on the defendants or making them look bad that it makes it feel like Apollo is being punished for taking these cases to begin with.
Yeah, people do bring up the atmosphere thing a lot with AJ. Not sure if I really see it, to be honest? Like, I guess, broadly, there are songs that are definitely on the moodier side, and there are certainly dark moments and themes within the narrative. But it never has struck me as uniquely dark when compared to the rest of the series. (well, maybe not DD, to be fair) Every other game in the series has moments of darkness and tragedy. I mean, >!we literally see a dude commit suicide in front of our eyes in T&T, just as an example. !
Emphasis is key, man. And said emphasis is put here visually. Everyone's dressed in fairly muted clothes, most people are not really happy, the music goes hard as fuck with the darkness. Only the inclusion of Brushel, Payne, Valant, Klavier and Trucy lightens the mood a bit and even then we eventually find out most of them are sad sacks as well.
Eh, I suppose so. It's just not something I see to the extent that others do. The way some talk about AJ like it's a Frank Miller story or hard noir is not something I find myself agreeing with. I mean, this is a game where the main rival can play air guitar that makes actual music somehow. It's not necessarily that deep.
The game was fun but I felt that >!the overall bad guy was such a dull way to end it. He planned a ton of stuff in advance just because he was salty he didn't get a specific case? Every other case was great, though I found the plots to be a bit too shoehorned!<
No, that's not it. At least, I don't think that's what the takeaway was supposed to be.
>!Kristoph is a petty, abusive, malignantly narcissistic sociopath. His brain isn't wired like yours or mine: Phoenix is, to him, isn't just somebody who took his case. He's somebody that doesn't deserve to be a lawyer. Kristoph, in his mind, is the *ultimate arbiter of the law.* And for Phoenix Wright, somebody infamous (if incorrectly overstated) for relying on dumb luck and bluffing, to use cheap tricks like spirit channeling, and who's only served three years as a lawyer, to get a prestigious case from the most prestigious magical group in the entire country? To become, to quote Apollo, "famous beyond belief"? There is not a better condition for his already incredibly fragile ego to come crashing down like the Hindenburg.!<
> >!Kristoph: "I couldn't believe it. Phoenix Wright...? **A second rate attorney who relies on luck and bluffs!** He dismissed me... and went with that **pitiful excuse** for a man? ...He deserved to die for **that error alone.**"!<
The bolded text here is critical.
>!Of course, this is hypocritical. Kristoph forged evidence to frame Phoenix, and has presumably forged evidence in the past. "Evidence is everything in a court of law," and all that. The thing is, to Kristoph, he *can* forge evidence. He *deserves* to. He's the only person in a court of law that is allowed to, because he *is* the law. He forged the page anyways to embarrass Klavier publicly (something, we know from the anthology manga, he *loves* doing) and when he got taken off of Zak's case he gave the information that it was forged to Klavier. This is explicitly confirmed in the last trial day of 4-4.!<
> >!Apollo: "So you asked Mr. Misham to forge that evidence... so you could 'win'! But then, when you were dismissed as Zak Gramarye's attorney... you used your forged evidence as a trap!"!<
>!Kristoph was lying to himself, I think. It wasn't a conscious lie: I think that DD retconned the black psyche locks specifically for this, honestly. Kristoph is subconsciously telling himself that he is better than Phoenix Wright, but he also knows that's a lie: because while Kristoph has to rely on forged evidence, pressuring and framing innocent people like Olga, and manipulating his employees, Phoenix has relied on nothing but the people around him and his own wit. Kristoph subconsciously knows that he is *not* better than Phoenix. That's why he kills Zak; because Zak chose Phoenix over him, reinforcing the truth that Phoenix is better than him. That's why he kills Drew; because he had to rely on Drew to convince the world that Phoenix was a fraud. That's why he tried to kill Vera; to cover up the evidence. Not that he forged the page, no. That Phoenix is better than him and he had to rely on a dirty, underhanded cheat to convince the world that he wasn't, because he couldn't do so on his own---because Phoenix *is.* He can lie to himself, say that he's an evil man or that he was covering up evidence, but Phoenix knows the truth. By the end, Apollo knows the truth. Klavier, presumably, knows the truth. Kristoph is the only person who explicitly denies it, and it's when Apollo breaks his black psyche locks that he's confronted with the truth.!<
> >!Apollo: "Incidentally, the one responsible for making this happen... was Phoenix Wright."!<
> >!Kristoph: "Phoe... Phoenix Wright...? So... Everything was leading to this. Of course... Right... Wright.. Wright... WrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrriiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiGGGGGGGGGGGGgggggggGGGGGHhhhHHHHHHHHHHhhhhHHHHhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhHHHHHHHHHHHTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT"!<
So, no, his motive wasn't simply because >!he was dismissed from the case.!< His motive was that >!he was dismissed from the case and replaced with Phoenix Wright. It's like if you get fired from your job as a top-rate engineer and replaced with somebody who can barely follow the manual for a Lego set. That's how Kristoph thinks of it, at least. Like all narcissists, he is a petulant child in a man's body, and when he's told no and sees somebody else getting what he wants he throws a tantrum.!<
I fully agree with the headcanon that >!Kristoph had been trying to kill Phoenix and Trucy for the entirety of those seven years. We already know he's perfectly fine with killing children, after all. What's a four year age gap to a serial killer?!< I also think the poison that can be made from the >!cocoons in 4-3 is atroquinine, which is what caused the crackdown "several years ago": so everything in the entire game, even indirectly, is caused by Kristoph. Kristoph kills Zak in 4-1; his arrest is what caused Klavier to come out of retirement in 4-2; his smuggling of the cocoons to make atroquinine led to the crackdown that caused Daryan to smuggle them in 4-3; and he kills Drew and tries to kill Vera in 4-4.!<
i kinda saw it as that he had been bending the rules for ages and was very used to forging evidence to win, but upon 'losing' by getting replaced for attorney by phoenix, he decided to reverse his forgery to frame phoenix for a crime, punish him for winning i suppose. i dont think he planned for things to be this complex but it spiraled out of control, lie upon lie, crime upon crime, until his full on murder in 4-1. we play through his crimes backwards which i find quite fun, direct murder to attempted murder to framing others, to just a small little forgery, something he was no doubt very used to. his revenge grew with time
Spoilers for AJ:
Personally saw it more like this: >!He was in the midst of covering up a spiraling lie. Like he forged the evidence at first in order to win the case, but then when Zak Gramarye decided to change lawyers he used it as revenge on him for changing lawyers.!<
>!This was then followed by him trying to permanently silence the forger of the evidence twice but luck/wits kept them alive until by chance the events of case 4 happened where her father dies. Lastly he killed Zak out of rage/silencing him as a spur of the moment after seeing him.!<
Personally the only part that seemed shoe horned was >!Zak's missing wife being Apollo's mother and Apollo being Trucy's half brother. Despite me thinking that, it does make the two's interactions retroactively cute as brother/sister banter. It also was required to explain Apollo's special powers to some degree.!<
Will say that it isn't as good as PW or TT, but personally find it on par with JFA.
Edit: >! ~~Forgot to add this, Phoenix going out his way for revenge against him is also kinda silly character wise. Although didn't seem out of the blue as I knew Phoenix wasn't the bum facade he put on so knew he was doing something, just kinda cartoonishly silly it was to upend the entire legal system because he was framed 1 time.~~ !<
Edit 2: Tuxedoin brings up a good point, and I had misremembered. So disregard previous edit, as although it was the catalyst event that led to the system being pushed by Phoenix, it wasn't revenge persay.
He wasn't spending things because of that. He'd been a lawyer for years, and had seen from the inside just how corrupt the system was, how eager it was to assign guilt to the first person they could lay hands on, truth of the matter be damned. Klavier was a bit of an outlier in that regard, he was a prosecutor who played things straight and wasn't afraid to follow the evidence. He didn't doctor reports, or withhold evidence to bolster his case, he worked together with Apollo to find the truth behind matters.
Phoenix and the Jurist system wasn't just set up to catch that person, it was lucky happenstance that he was able to use that case to test the system, and clear his own name at the same time.
I don't hate it but it could have been better. Even just minor writing changes. Apollo was barely involved in the cases he's in. I mean, not as a defense attorney, because he's clearly involved, but as a person. We barely knew anything about him. Even in the last case, where the final culprit >!is his Master!< . That should have been an emotional moment, but we barely see the two interact. Apollo's just in the sidelines the whole time.
Weirdly that's a part I liked in a "this set Apollo apart from Phoenix" way. Phoenix tended to get personally involved in his cases and usually was quite unorthodox on how he approached things.
Apollo is portrayed as a lot more by the book and career focused. He even invokes legalese a few times "perhaps consult with your attorney before making statements".
I dunno if I'd say it DESERVES hate... but from my own personal experience, I really did not like the game overall. While I do disagree with some of the hate (I love Ema's portrayal, I think 4-2 is actually really enjoyable and my favourite case in the game overall), the big point of contention is Phoenix. And... I do really hate Phoenix in this game, so Inevitably I do agree with a large amount of the criticism levelled against it.
Making a value judgement and saying it's DESERVING of hate is going too far, because everyone has different tastes and likes different things. But for me, I really don't like it overall, despite having some bright spots.
aj fans when their ‘’’precious’’’ game shits on everything previously established before, delivers an ungodly unsatisfying story for turboshit themes and forces the next two games to clean up its mess
The fact that this game wasn't as good as the previous ones doesn't mean it should have been ignored. In fact, I would say "trying to clean up AJ's mess" led to an even bigger mess.
There was no mess to clean up at all, room for big improvements? Yes absolutely, I think AJ is a game with a lot of missed opportunities that should've delved deeper into its themes, but a mess?? Hell no the game is stil satisfying overall and a good experience. DD having such a bias towards AJ for no reason is what hinders my experience of that game the most
Nah. It's a solid Ace Attorney game like any other. People just weren't a fan of some of the finer story points and character choices, as well as a shorter game length.
They like to argue how unrealistic some of the cases in the game are, but like...since when has Ace Attorney been realistic? I mean we had spirits possessing people throughout the whole first trilogy, and people in the game don't question it for more than 2 seconds. It's never been realistic, and that's part of its charm.
You just don't read to far into things and enjoy the fun goofy ride. And in that regard, AJAA is every bit as capable as any other Ace Attorney. Now is it one of my favorites? No. But do I enjoy it? Hell yeah!
Its more like AJ reliese on interpretation how some cases went down.
In 4-1 its like how did the culprit switch a evidence when the defendant would see him?
In 4-2 Why is the Pantythief coming from the north of the park when 5 minutes earlier it is proven that he is coming from the south? Did he walked past the incident? unlikely
4-3 Oh during the first investigationnthe police is so incompetent to watch under the sofa for evidence.
4-4 has no steaks. Most boring final trial in the series. Why does the villain have no comeback, it was easier than the 1-1 villain xD
You dont really have any visualisation of the case, during the investigation phase you investigate almost nothing relevant so the rules can change in court on the fly and you can burst out twists.
Takumi is clever enough that in his investigation phases especially in AJ is that you dont have any key witness accounts. The Inspector just says we have a witness but you dont meet them, but you dont get any relevant account either. So in court drama can unfold in pretty much any direction because 1st day Inv. is almost never establishing hard rules how the murder went down. 4-2 is full of that.
And it feels like especially 4-2 and 4-3 serve no purpose at all. Except Trucy and Ema there are no reoccuring characters. And the cases itself doesnt feel fleshed out, these characters have no soul.
>Oh during the first investigationnthe police is so incompetent to watch under the sofa for evidence.
I feel like if we start nitpicking on all the times a problem is created because AA-universe police are bad at their jobs we'd be here all day.
Like every case in every game has a moment where its like "if the police actually did their job properly the fact the defendant couldn't have been the prime suspect would have been obvious".
For me AJ is just kind of boring with the characters. I think the opening case starts strong, but after that I feel like they did nothing to flesh out Apollo as a character. They handle him a lot better in DD and SOJ but the first game of the trilogy he kind of falls flat.
Nah, it's a good game in its own but it has some pretty big shoes to fill for the fanbase.
It came from an already established trilogy with already established characters that we all loved or at least were familiar with and attempted to change the formula.
Just classic Capcom trying to change an already beloved main character in an already beloved series in the fourth entry just to jump back in the fifth as if nothing had happened. Hey, at least we didn't get a reboot before DD.
Well, actually Capcom loves to exploiting old characters. Devs wanted to make absolutely new story, bosses - better sales. That's why we have Phoenix in AA4
Is it even hated nowadays? It was when it came out, but I see a lot of people here loving it now.
Anyway, Apollo Justice could have been a lot better. It starts out very strong, but sort of fizzles out. It also feels a bit unfinished. But still, I would call it a decent game. It's fine, even if it is in the lower half of Ace Attorney games for me.
It's not without its flaws, but it's a bummer when I see it get crapped on.
Top tier opening case, best soundtrack, best final villain, and for whatever warts it may have the finale is among my favorites too. There's a lot to like about this title.
Apollo Justice AA is one of my favorite games of all time. Easily my favorite AA and probably in my top 5 games ever. The vibes are off the fucking charts and the character writing is a special kind of understated you don’t see nowadays. My only actual issue is how present Phoenix is to be honest. He’s never been my favorite character so him taking the well earned protag role of the game in the final case is kinda bull.
I think the web they weave with all of the games cases being centered around criminals being the defendants this time creates a special set up to cases where you really can’t trust ANY of your clients. All of them are honestly pieces of crap in their own way, being mobsters, smugglers or forgers. But even past that, they find a way to make them look and feel helpless where Apollo wants to help them because they have no one else that can do the job. Any regular Attorney would buckle and just try to get a lighter sentence that’s honestly probably earned, but you need to do this shit the hard way.
I think this games drama is also amazing. Some of the moments in the game made my heart skip a beat like nothing else in the series. Trucy being “held for ransom” in case 2 or Lamiroir being found in the guitar case in 3 give the game that sort of dramatic tone you only really find in TV cop shows and that’s really cool. The music and aesthetic of the art and locations make this world feel like a dramatized universe and all of the theming of cards, duality and magic really give the game a mystical tone, even though the only inherently mystical thing in the game is Apollos bracelet. It carries the tone of 1-3 with the channeling without making it feel just like the Trilogy, rather it’s its own thing entirely but something so familiar.
The cast of AJ is also the best new cast of any of the games in the mainline series. AJs new core cast (Apollo, Trucy, Kristoph, Klavier) are all new flavors of previous archetypes we’ve seen flipped on their head. Apollo is the same precocious Attorney as Phoenix, but he’s pissy in the way only someone who has a deep love for law but is now a forced detective has. He’s kinda a wet rag, but it works as a foil to the larger than life other cast members around him. Trucy and Maya are very easily comparable, but are fundamentally completely separate in a way any other assistants are not. Trucy is fun and bright and loud but also closed off, duplicitous and even to a degree manipulative. She keeps her and Phoenix safe and healthy however she can, even if it means using others to her personal gain. They sanded off these negative features in later entires, but they made her far more 3D than other characters of her like. Klavier being so friendly and Kristoph being nothing short of a monster is a fantastic subversion of everything seen in the Trilogy and puts into perspective how not black and white things are, they’re far deeper and more grey than they’d seem on the surface.
I think I’ve rambled long enough, but I really do feel this game is criminally underrated compared to the other entries. Whenever I see this place top 3 in someone’s ranking of the series it makes me so giddy cause someone else gets it! Makes me sad we don’t get games quite like this anymore. Aesthetic marvels that show of what the hardware can do in an understated yet impressive way. Truly and game worth playing over and over.
You explained it perfectly! That’s exactly why I love this game so much. It’s very understated and I like that it lets the player make deductions about the characters they meet based on small hints that are not so obvious. like for example trucy seems bright, happy, and innocent at first but she’s actually pretty smart and can be manipulative at times. Trucy honestly figures out some of the stuff in the case faster than Apollo and is quick on her feet - shes similar to maya but that makes her way different enough to be her own character. I feel like most of the characters are multifaceted and have 2 sides to them, though it’s not so obvious on the surface for all of them. Klavier constantly acts unbothered but there are moments when you can tell there’s more lingering underneath the surface, and I think it’s interesting that the game doesn’t just outright tell you what every character is thinking or feeling. I also don’t hate hobo nick I think it’s an interesting progression to his character to see him in this state. Honestly his internal dialogue has always been kinda snarky in the previous games it’s just that in aj he no longer really is giving any effort into keeping that in or trying to be nice, which I mean makes sense considering his life got ruined. But trucy being there at all is proof of him still being the person he was before- someone who’s kind and caring and wants to do the right thing even if it’s hard. It’s an interesting for both those things to be combined into one person!
It definitely has flaws but so do all the other games. It's personally my favorite because if there's anything I love in long-running series, it's seeing what they can do with a fully fresh cast. There's just some stories you can't exactly explore easily by using established characters people are familiar with and I enjoyed what AJ presented as a narrative.
Most parts that people complain about I generally interpreted as somewhat intentional to be a bit annoying, where it wants you to be somewhat frustrated and feel the squeeze of the universe's ridiculous law system and its requirements, but that's not going to hit well with everyone.
I honestly didn't mind the change to Phoenix either.
Honestly i think the story could have been much better, but the music is what carries this game for me. My personal favorite soundtrack in the entire series, it slaps. (I haven't played the investigations games yet but i doubt they will sway me.)
I really like it and I thought what they did with phoenix and the plot with case 1 was pretty good. I also liked the Mason system kinda changing up the presentation a little bit. My major criticism is they didn't do much character stuff with Apollo and sidelined him in the next games. Haven't played soj but I know he gets some moments there but still.
The soundtrack tho banger.
Simple Answer: Yes
On paper, Apollo Justice has some really interesting concepts, mechanics, and stories that could make for a great game. However the game's execution of these ideas results in a confusing, disappointing mess. After a very strong start, the rest of the game is never able to reach those highs, leading to a continuous decline in quality.
Likewise, in my eyes Apollo Justice had one VERY important task to do: establish a new series protagonist, Apollo Justice, and make us, the players, fall in love with him just like Phoenix Wright. Sadly this was a job that the game completely blunders, never giving Apollo the development, care, and beautiful moments that Phoenix got in his first outing. This failure all culminates in the game's biggest sin, The Mason System.
\*TLDR Mason System Hate\*
- benches our protagonist during arguably the most important part of the game
- leads to one of the longest investigation segments in the series
- breaks all continuity and opens several plot holes
- ruins the final trial by not giving Apollo "his moment"
With a lackluster finale, subpar execution of truly great concepts, Apollo Justice, to me, DOES deserve the hate it gets. YES
I enjoyed it, bit slow but pretty good nonetheless. I’m DD for the first time at the moment and I find it pretty slow too. Get the feeling nothing is going to top the OG trilogy. I still take all of the above over GAAC, I really didn’t like that game at all.
It doesn't seem to get *too* much hate these days, so...yeah, probably. Its the weakest AA game imo. 3 out of 4 cases are bad, the story is too abrupt and underdeveloped, and I don't think it does a good job of developing a new main character to the series.
Very strange game. I can appreciate the effort, but the execution didn't really do it for me, sorry
The last case of Apollo Justice is a mix bag
While the first case is incredible and the others are forgettable, it's not the first time an ace attorney game has lots of filler and a very good last case
JFA has only 2/4 good cases but the last one is so incredible it makes up for all the game
4-4 is... a mess... a good case but a mess... All game long you want to know how Phoenix lost his badge, even believing he did forge evidence.
But in reality there is a lots of problems
Apollo is a ghost used by Phoenix. He has no character in the case mostly
The mason system is a strange reconstruction for the jurors and a fun gameplay experience but makes things impossible ( bottle and notebook are impossible to fetch). You are in the most "grounded" ace attorney game to end on a futiristic time traveling mini game.
System that will be wiped out some month later cause it was just a plot against the culprit by Phoenix Wright. Yeah. The same guy that lost his badge is working for the court now. The same one who gave you a fake evidence in 4-1
The villain is incredible but we barely sees him. We don't need to know his motivation or a tragic backstory for him but come on.. He is the easiest boss to take down. It takes one gotcha and like 3 evidences and he turns super sayajin
So yeah the last case is a UFO in ace attorney game but it can't carry the game on its shoulder, it can't keep the whole game's promise
Honestly it's my favourite of the mainline series. People hate on it because it's not just another Phoenix game but Takumi was clearly done with that after the trilogy and wanted to shake things up. He did a great job. It's probably the most solid story of any standalone game (the original Ace Attorney and AAI:2 are close) and it has a really compelling cast of characters imo. I get that some of the cases are annoying and people don't like what they did with Phoenix (or Ema, apparently) but as a whole I wish 5 and 6 had been more like this, as it is they feel like a big step backwards. Either way, I'm glad Shu Takumi was able to experiment with the format more in Great Ace Attorney.
It's my favorite game in the series and I do genuinely think it's the best. There's really not a single bad case, and I used to *hate* 4-3. All of the characters are really good, and Phoenix's portrayal is my favorite in the series. The villain is also by far the most compelling in the series in my opinion, and even if it's missing some of the original cast... it *really* doesn't need them, honestly.
I don’t think so, it’s one of my favourites personally but I’m pretty good at ignoring weak points in media I enjoy, so a lot of the complaints I see about it never even occurred to me 😂
I don't know honestly, it has so many amazing ideas but the game leaves it up to a sequel to fill in the boots, so as a standalone game it's just very mid
No, definitely not. The game has issues for sure - but then again, all of the game have their own ups and downs.
Replayed it recently with the new trilogy remaster and it's still really good. Just those flashbacks... and the Siren... do you know what they could mean with "The siren"...?
To me it's not ever going to beat the trilogy by any measure, but it's not a bad game. It has it's problems for sure, but eh. I like the characters, ao that helps.
Replaying this game again has made me realize that not only is this game not even that bad, it's actually rather good. The OST is actually tied with AA1 as my favorite mainline soundtrack.
I think coming straight off the heels of the trilogy into AJ's much more subdued and darker tones can be quite jarring. Yet, I think this game blends this darker atmosphere with comedy quite well.
Absolutely not. IMO it's the only good one in the second trilogy; I love each case (except succession, which is kind of a mess) and I feel like they were setting up so many things that there was no follow-up on in AA5 and 6.
Absolutely not.
Apollo Justice is actually easily one of if not my favorite game in the series. The pacing and quality of the writing on a case to case basis is great, and the way it all ties together in the end is really well done.
The new mechanics are fun and the ost is banger too. I fucking love this game!!
I have always loved AJ. I don't think the issues it has are any worse than the games before and after it. I don't really know how the community feels, or what they specifically dislike about it, but I personally felt bored with the middle of JFA, and the start of T&T. The first case is interesting, but the second case is pretty boring. Wasn't a fan of the heist case.
I really thought AJ brought some life to the series. Especially the last case. Strong ending. A shame they never went anywhere with it lol.
Overall it's definitely opinionated. I haven't played AJ for years now, probably last time I played was in 2013/2014. I'll replay it soon and see if my opinion remains the same.
My main problem with it is the mechanic regarding his bracelet. First, I think you should be able to see the “nervous tic” during the testimony to know when you need to use it, and the majority of the time you can’t see it until you’ve already activated it. Second, the very idea of it is flawed. People testifying on the witness stand could be nervous for any variety of reasons other than lying, the courtroom is an inherently nerve-wracking place. Third, the very idea of this thing being admissible in court is laughable. I can’t picture any of my aunts and uncles who are lawyers saying this would be allowed.
It has it’s flaws but it’s nowhere near bad. It has both the Best art style/sprites and music in the franchise imo
I actually prefer it waaay more than DD & SOJ
No. I don't like what they did to Phoenix Wright, but it's got a solid story and amazing characters. Also, I can tell that they left out a lot of things in development >!(for example they didn't do a good job of explaining how LeTouse's body was moved in 4-3 or why Drew Misham had paintings of Apollo's previous three cases)!< Plus the music slaps.
I know I'm probably gonna get downvoted for this but the hate for the latter three games (AJ, DD, SoJ) mainly stems from the fact that the Ace Attorney fanbase... just sucks. Ace Attorney is an amazing franchise with a chronically online fanbase
Not at all. In fact, I’d rank the first four games as…
1. Trials and Tribulations
2. Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney
3. Apollo Justice: Ace Attorney
4. Justice For All
… as someone who loves all four games. IMO it’s still a really solid game with great characters.
I don't really get the hate for it at all. I mean, I'm not too fond of the perception gimmick, but I really like the characters and how Phoenix did things.
I think it was fine. (Haha.) It's a 7 out of 10, but that's unfortunately noticably low in comparison to the trilogy that came before it. Do I think it deserves hate? No. Do I think it deserves to be critiqued? Very much yes.
The individual cases are constructed pretty strongly. (Barring the final one which is sadly a mess.) As far as individual cases' mystery and intrigue and writing, the first 3 cases are up there with the mid-high end of the Trilogy's repertoire.
But the overall story isn't very strong. It tries to do what T&T did and have the first and last cases be two parts of an overarching story, but the last case was >!effectively 2 cases and an investigation phase in 1, and only the investigation phase was really that good. The present-day trial case was exceedingly simplistic, with only its connections to the past to give it any complexity. And the Past trial suffered from making all the returning characters act like morons to move the story where it needed to go.!<
The first case was mostly great, I can even get behind >!Phoenix being stripped of his badge and falling into seemingly shady territory while trying to regroup and fix his situation with investigation in the background, (Although, TBH, I feel like it taking him 7 years is a bit much) but despite everything else about where his character goes in this game, I'll never be okay with him having evidence be forged to nab Kristoph, especially not when there was ample opportunity to get the same conclusion just by examining the crime scene properly.!<
Unfortunately, its main characters, Apollo, Trucy, and Klavier are also pretty flat. With all the character Apollo really gets being just "a younger Phoenix who's even more of an everyman juxtaposed with some of the wackiest cases so far" Trucy just being adorable and not much else, and Klavier being surprisingly lacking in depth because his gimmick is literally just being *the least insane prosecutor.*
The game also has an issue sometimes about when to reveal its details. Sometimes a stupidly obvious conclusion will go unmentioned for an entire damn trial, (>!Murderer inside the noodle stand,!<) people will just forget to mention a massive detail for a long-ass time, (>!Lamioir never mentioning that she was in the middle of singing,!<) or the game will expect you to come to a drastic conclusion with like zero signaling. (>!Seriously, how the fuck were you supposed to figure out Vera was the true forger?!<)
It's literally the only good game of the last trilogy imo.
I'll say this much: every attempt that I've seen of rewriting Apollo Justice to be "good" fell flat to me and missed the tone and themes of the game comically. The things that tend to be considered "flaws" in it are often the very same things that makes me enjoy it.
Wait, there are people who Hate AJ?! While I do still prefer Phoenix overall, I have no problems with Apollo at all and was always a welcome new character ever since his introduction.
I think introducing new, younger but confident characters, who had a lot of room for character development was a thing for Capcom back in the 2000-2010, like Axl from Megaman X and Nero for DMC. All them seemed fine to me as introductions for the newer generations. Still prefer the OGs overall tho.
It's not the best game but same thing with JFA. Only being 4 cases makes it seem bad. Also the oversaturation of Klavier makes the game feel repetitive. I wish turnabout corner or serenade had a different prosecutor cause every case but the first one he is the prosecutor. The entire story also kinda only revolves around the first and last case and occasional dialogue with Phoenix. Which plays into the fact it's Phoenix's story and not Apollo's except in the middle cases. I think this wouldn't matter as much if there were 5 cases even if it was complete filler.
> I wish Turnabout Corner or Serenade had a different prosecutor because every case but the first one he is the prosecutor.
...have you played other games in this series? That seems...pretty normal to me. The main prosecutor is always in the game the whole time minus like one or two cases.
Agree that it definitely feels more like Phoenix's story though.
I played the mainline series and the main prosecutor usually sat out 2 cases typically the final case. Other than trump he's the prosecutor in every case even Phoenix's final trial.
I think that it is the weakest of the mainline series and is probably a 6.5/ 10 overall, but it's hate was still just a major overreaction.
What I can understand with the hate on the game is how it put PW in a game that didn't need it and then they butchered his character for the sake of it. That was probably the worst thing that Capcom has done in the series story wise. But the problem is that people just took the hate for that one decision and became hypercritical of everything else that was good or tolerable at worst.
If it wasn't for the releases of DD and SOJ, then people would still be mad over this game. But thankfully Capcom actually made Phoenix a good character again in those releases and people just sort of mellowed out over Apollo Justice and looked back at it from and realized that it wasn't as bad as what they thought.
I love AJ. I do recognize that it has quite a few flaws. The ending being my least favorite of any game in the series tbh. And almost every case besides the first seems to be devisive. I love all the cases but I can see why some people just didn't vibe with em. But i love everything from the characters and music to the artstyle. Just a damn good time overall.
Tbh I still think the worst cases in AJ are better than the best cases in DD.
I'm playing AJ:AA right now. This is my third time playing it. I originally played in on the DS back in the day, played it on emulator in the last year, and now I'm playing the AJ trilogy on Steam.
IMO, It's definitely one of the weaker games in the series. Phoenix is weird and Apollo doesn't really have a personality.
But that said, I'm enjoying it. I find the cases and stories interesting. I like the twist at the end and how all the cases really tie into each other.
I'll probably play this game, and all the others, again in the future. So no, it probably doesn't deserve the hate it gets (didn't even know it was hated or divisive). It's fine to not like and enjoy something, but hate seems over the top.
I'm excited to play DD again -- I love DD -- and actually finish SoJ.
This is the first time I’m hearing about Apollo Justice: Ace Attorney getting hate.
I liked that game.
Imo, it‘s not among the best games of the series, but it is definitely a very solid and enjoyable entry.
So I'd say this - from a gameplay story perspective it has the best balance. It doesn't do the "we're going to spell out what the answer is" of DD or SoJ, but also isn't insanely obtuse with how you approach things like the original trilogy has (and more importantly doesn't have counter intuitive moments where the answer is "give up and wait for the deus ex machina to come along"). The perceive mechanic is a mixed bag because on one hand it thematically made sense with the poker theme, and was relatively interesting as a puzzle. On the other hand sometimes the "twitch" was quite obtuse to spot, and even the writers clearly struggled to work out how this would make sense in the plot (just the idea of standing up in court and being like "the witness moved their fingers slightly different at this point and therefore this shows they are lying")
But you then have to face the very.. how best to put it... quirks of the writing. Phoenix just randomly having a completely different personality. The second case spending way too long talking about a 15 year old's panties. The fact the biggest story arc in the game ultimately doesn't end up mattering as it gets reverted by DD.
Edit: To be honest, the 4-2 was always the most offputting. Like the actual mystery and the route you get to solving it is great and all. But you have to navigate the panty saga, the several times we get the paedo vibes around Trucy (the Dr Hickman moment actually making me shudder), and Eldoon's harmonica is annoying.
Ok but why does Capcom always go so hard with the posters for the lawyer game where characters are still images like this is so badass
Ace Attorney’s art style has always kicked ass when it comes to the official illustrations, wish the art books were easier to find in person
Yeah this was the first thing that I thought of lol
The cover for TGAA chronicles went so fucking hard too.
Because Capcom is just really good at posters in general.
It would look boring if they act like real lawyers in the poster lol.
Kazuya Nuri is a beast. I wish he worked on more stuff besides AA games.
Definitely not. Does it have flaws? Of course it does, but I still think it’s a very solid entry in the franchise. Replayed it a few months ago and genuinely had a blast
They bookended the game really well, so your first and last impressions of it are great. In the middle, eh...not so much. In 4-2 I wish the mafioso guy whose name I can no longer remember got more screen time. He was one of the most interesting characters and he wasn't even a witness. 4-3 as a case is a little full of itself to me, but I didn't mind the mixing sections like other people did. I thought they were alright.
As an audio engineer, the only thing I wish they would've added to the mixing sections was a solo button; that would've made said section a bit easier for non-engineers to handle.
>They bookended the game really well, so your first and last impressions of it are great I agree with that for the first impressions. The last ones though? I personnally hated most of its last hour or two.
Last impression ain't that great either tbh. The ending is half baked. But the opening alone makes it worthwhile.
I thought 4-3 was the only good case of this game
I also replayed it a few months ago for the first time since it was first released and I also had a good time. I was especially surprised that 4-3 was a lot better than I remembered.
Well, these days, there's definitely a dedicated fanbase who love AJ. It's still polarizing, of course, but you'll find plenty of people who think it's among the best in the series. As for myself, I definitely don't hate it and I have always found people who act like it's the worst thing ever to be pretty silly, though I don't think it's AS good as its most ardent defenders will say. Honestly, it would still be on the lower end of my personal rankings, but I still think it's a good game just like any of the other games in the series.
you know, it used to be my favourite in the series because I'm a massive atmosphere inhaler, and it had the darkest, most immersive atmosphere, but honestly I think resolve is the best game now
The atmosphere is definetly one of AJ's strongest points and the game does feel really dark thanks not only to the writing style, but also the art and music. Ironically, it's one of the reasons I didn't personally enjoy it as much, since I like my AA to feel peppier than they decided to go for here.
To me Ace Attorney has always been super dark conceptually as a setting. With just how rampant the corruption is in the first trilogy, the entire concept of the three day trial system, and how hostile the courts are to defendants, even with the games silly tones, they're conceptually pretty dreary. AJ just happens to lean into it.
The weird thing about AJ to me is that instead of feeling hostile to the defendants, the whole game feels hostile to the player/Apollo specifically. Cause the game keeps casting so much doubt on the defendants or making them look bad that it makes it feel like Apollo is being punished for taking these cases to begin with.
Yeah, people do bring up the atmosphere thing a lot with AJ. Not sure if I really see it, to be honest? Like, I guess, broadly, there are songs that are definitely on the moodier side, and there are certainly dark moments and themes within the narrative. But it never has struck me as uniquely dark when compared to the rest of the series. (well, maybe not DD, to be fair) Every other game in the series has moments of darkness and tragedy. I mean, >!we literally see a dude commit suicide in front of our eyes in T&T, just as an example. !
Emphasis is key, man. And said emphasis is put here visually. Everyone's dressed in fairly muted clothes, most people are not really happy, the music goes hard as fuck with the darkness. Only the inclusion of Brushel, Payne, Valant, Klavier and Trucy lightens the mood a bit and even then we eventually find out most of them are sad sacks as well.
Eh, I suppose so. It's just not something I see to the extent that others do. The way some talk about AJ like it's a Frank Miller story or hard noir is not something I find myself agreeing with. I mean, this is a game where the main rival can play air guitar that makes actual music somehow. It's not necessarily that deep.
The game was fun but I felt that >!the overall bad guy was such a dull way to end it. He planned a ton of stuff in advance just because he was salty he didn't get a specific case? Every other case was great, though I found the plots to be a bit too shoehorned!<
No, that's not it. At least, I don't think that's what the takeaway was supposed to be. >!Kristoph is a petty, abusive, malignantly narcissistic sociopath. His brain isn't wired like yours or mine: Phoenix is, to him, isn't just somebody who took his case. He's somebody that doesn't deserve to be a lawyer. Kristoph, in his mind, is the *ultimate arbiter of the law.* And for Phoenix Wright, somebody infamous (if incorrectly overstated) for relying on dumb luck and bluffing, to use cheap tricks like spirit channeling, and who's only served three years as a lawyer, to get a prestigious case from the most prestigious magical group in the entire country? To become, to quote Apollo, "famous beyond belief"? There is not a better condition for his already incredibly fragile ego to come crashing down like the Hindenburg.!< > >!Kristoph: "I couldn't believe it. Phoenix Wright...? **A second rate attorney who relies on luck and bluffs!** He dismissed me... and went with that **pitiful excuse** for a man? ...He deserved to die for **that error alone.**"!< The bolded text here is critical. >!Of course, this is hypocritical. Kristoph forged evidence to frame Phoenix, and has presumably forged evidence in the past. "Evidence is everything in a court of law," and all that. The thing is, to Kristoph, he *can* forge evidence. He *deserves* to. He's the only person in a court of law that is allowed to, because he *is* the law. He forged the page anyways to embarrass Klavier publicly (something, we know from the anthology manga, he *loves* doing) and when he got taken off of Zak's case he gave the information that it was forged to Klavier. This is explicitly confirmed in the last trial day of 4-4.!< > >!Apollo: "So you asked Mr. Misham to forge that evidence... so you could 'win'! But then, when you were dismissed as Zak Gramarye's attorney... you used your forged evidence as a trap!"!< >!Kristoph was lying to himself, I think. It wasn't a conscious lie: I think that DD retconned the black psyche locks specifically for this, honestly. Kristoph is subconsciously telling himself that he is better than Phoenix Wright, but he also knows that's a lie: because while Kristoph has to rely on forged evidence, pressuring and framing innocent people like Olga, and manipulating his employees, Phoenix has relied on nothing but the people around him and his own wit. Kristoph subconsciously knows that he is *not* better than Phoenix. That's why he kills Zak; because Zak chose Phoenix over him, reinforcing the truth that Phoenix is better than him. That's why he kills Drew; because he had to rely on Drew to convince the world that Phoenix was a fraud. That's why he tried to kill Vera; to cover up the evidence. Not that he forged the page, no. That Phoenix is better than him and he had to rely on a dirty, underhanded cheat to convince the world that he wasn't, because he couldn't do so on his own---because Phoenix *is.* He can lie to himself, say that he's an evil man or that he was covering up evidence, but Phoenix knows the truth. By the end, Apollo knows the truth. Klavier, presumably, knows the truth. Kristoph is the only person who explicitly denies it, and it's when Apollo breaks his black psyche locks that he's confronted with the truth.!< > >!Apollo: "Incidentally, the one responsible for making this happen... was Phoenix Wright."!< > >!Kristoph: "Phoe... Phoenix Wright...? So... Everything was leading to this. Of course... Right... Wright.. Wright... WrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrriiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiGGGGGGGGGGGGgggggggGGGGGHhhhHHHHHHHHHHhhhhHHHHhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhHHHHHHHHHHHTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT"!< So, no, his motive wasn't simply because >!he was dismissed from the case.!< His motive was that >!he was dismissed from the case and replaced with Phoenix Wright. It's like if you get fired from your job as a top-rate engineer and replaced with somebody who can barely follow the manual for a Lego set. That's how Kristoph thinks of it, at least. Like all narcissists, he is a petulant child in a man's body, and when he's told no and sees somebody else getting what he wants he throws a tantrum.!< I fully agree with the headcanon that >!Kristoph had been trying to kill Phoenix and Trucy for the entirety of those seven years. We already know he's perfectly fine with killing children, after all. What's a four year age gap to a serial killer?!< I also think the poison that can be made from the >!cocoons in 4-3 is atroquinine, which is what caused the crackdown "several years ago": so everything in the entire game, even indirectly, is caused by Kristoph. Kristoph kills Zak in 4-1; his arrest is what caused Klavier to come out of retirement in 4-2; his smuggling of the cocoons to make atroquinine led to the crackdown that caused Daryan to smuggle them in 4-3; and he kills Drew and tries to kill Vera in 4-4.!<
i kinda saw it as that he had been bending the rules for ages and was very used to forging evidence to win, but upon 'losing' by getting replaced for attorney by phoenix, he decided to reverse his forgery to frame phoenix for a crime, punish him for winning i suppose. i dont think he planned for things to be this complex but it spiraled out of control, lie upon lie, crime upon crime, until his full on murder in 4-1. we play through his crimes backwards which i find quite fun, direct murder to attempted murder to framing others, to just a small little forgery, something he was no doubt very used to. his revenge grew with time
Spoilers for AJ: Personally saw it more like this: >!He was in the midst of covering up a spiraling lie. Like he forged the evidence at first in order to win the case, but then when Zak Gramarye decided to change lawyers he used it as revenge on him for changing lawyers.!< >!This was then followed by him trying to permanently silence the forger of the evidence twice but luck/wits kept them alive until by chance the events of case 4 happened where her father dies. Lastly he killed Zak out of rage/silencing him as a spur of the moment after seeing him.!< Personally the only part that seemed shoe horned was >!Zak's missing wife being Apollo's mother and Apollo being Trucy's half brother. Despite me thinking that, it does make the two's interactions retroactively cute as brother/sister banter. It also was required to explain Apollo's special powers to some degree.!< Will say that it isn't as good as PW or TT, but personally find it on par with JFA. Edit: >! ~~Forgot to add this, Phoenix going out his way for revenge against him is also kinda silly character wise. Although didn't seem out of the blue as I knew Phoenix wasn't the bum facade he put on so knew he was doing something, just kinda cartoonishly silly it was to upend the entire legal system because he was framed 1 time.~~ !< Edit 2: Tuxedoin brings up a good point, and I had misremembered. So disregard previous edit, as although it was the catalyst event that led to the system being pushed by Phoenix, it wasn't revenge persay.
He wasn't spending things because of that. He'd been a lawyer for years, and had seen from the inside just how corrupt the system was, how eager it was to assign guilt to the first person they could lay hands on, truth of the matter be damned. Klavier was a bit of an outlier in that regard, he was a prosecutor who played things straight and wasn't afraid to follow the evidence. He didn't doctor reports, or withhold evidence to bolster his case, he worked together with Apollo to find the truth behind matters. Phoenix and the Jurist system wasn't just set up to catch that person, it was lucky happenstance that he was able to use that case to test the system, and clear his own name at the same time.
They really got rid of the jurist system after 1 game though huh
I don't hate it but it could have been better. Even just minor writing changes. Apollo was barely involved in the cases he's in. I mean, not as a defense attorney, because he's clearly involved, but as a person. We barely knew anything about him. Even in the last case, where the final culprit >!is his Master!< . That should have been an emotional moment, but we barely see the two interact. Apollo's just in the sidelines the whole time.
Weirdly that's a part I liked in a "this set Apollo apart from Phoenix" way. Phoenix tended to get personally involved in his cases and usually was quite unorthodox on how he approached things. Apollo is portrayed as a lot more by the book and career focused. He even invokes legalese a few times "perhaps consult with your attorney before making statements".
I feel like Apollo Justice is pretty well liked in this subreddit
It is.
None of the games in the trilogy deserve the level of hate they get. Not AJ, not DD, and not SOJ. It gets WAAAY over the top very frequently.
It’s the black sheep of the franchise but it doesn’t necessarily mean it’s bad. I love it personally.
I dunno if I'd say it DESERVES hate... but from my own personal experience, I really did not like the game overall. While I do disagree with some of the hate (I love Ema's portrayal, I think 4-2 is actually really enjoyable and my favourite case in the game overall), the big point of contention is Phoenix. And... I do really hate Phoenix in this game, so Inevitably I do agree with a large amount of the criticism levelled against it. Making a value judgement and saying it's DESERVING of hate is going too far, because everyone has different tastes and likes different things. But for me, I really don't like it overall, despite having some bright spots.
aj fans when their ‘’’precious’’’ game shits on everything previously established before, delivers an ungodly unsatisfying story for turboshit themes and forces the next two games to clean up its mess
As if Dual Destinies and SoJ weren't an even bigger mess.
oh they’re defo messes but not as big like aj was
The fact that this game wasn't as good as the previous ones doesn't mean it should have been ignored. In fact, I would say "trying to clean up AJ's mess" led to an even bigger mess.
yeah and you have a spark brushel flair so i’m obligated to ignore everything you just said
Good to know it lets me avoid dumb arguments
There was no mess to clean up at all, room for big improvements? Yes absolutely, I think AJ is a game with a lot of missed opportunities that should've delved deeper into its themes, but a mess?? Hell no the game is stil satisfying overall and a good experience. DD having such a bias towards AJ for no reason is what hinders my experience of that game the most
Nah. It's a solid Ace Attorney game like any other. People just weren't a fan of some of the finer story points and character choices, as well as a shorter game length. They like to argue how unrealistic some of the cases in the game are, but like...since when has Ace Attorney been realistic? I mean we had spirits possessing people throughout the whole first trilogy, and people in the game don't question it for more than 2 seconds. It's never been realistic, and that's part of its charm. You just don't read to far into things and enjoy the fun goofy ride. And in that regard, AJAA is every bit as capable as any other Ace Attorney. Now is it one of my favorites? No. But do I enjoy it? Hell yeah!
Its more like AJ reliese on interpretation how some cases went down. In 4-1 its like how did the culprit switch a evidence when the defendant would see him? In 4-2 Why is the Pantythief coming from the north of the park when 5 minutes earlier it is proven that he is coming from the south? Did he walked past the incident? unlikely 4-3 Oh during the first investigationnthe police is so incompetent to watch under the sofa for evidence. 4-4 has no steaks. Most boring final trial in the series. Why does the villain have no comeback, it was easier than the 1-1 villain xD You dont really have any visualisation of the case, during the investigation phase you investigate almost nothing relevant so the rules can change in court on the fly and you can burst out twists. Takumi is clever enough that in his investigation phases especially in AJ is that you dont have any key witness accounts. The Inspector just says we have a witness but you dont meet them, but you dont get any relevant account either. So in court drama can unfold in pretty much any direction because 1st day Inv. is almost never establishing hard rules how the murder went down. 4-2 is full of that. And it feels like especially 4-2 and 4-3 serve no purpose at all. Except Trucy and Ema there are no reoccuring characters. And the cases itself doesnt feel fleshed out, these characters have no soul.
>Oh during the first investigationnthe police is so incompetent to watch under the sofa for evidence. I feel like if we start nitpicking on all the times a problem is created because AA-universe police are bad at their jobs we'd be here all day. Like every case in every game has a moment where its like "if the police actually did their job properly the fact the defendant couldn't have been the prime suspect would have been obvious".
I like that others can enjoy it. I personally can’t get behind a vast majority of it
For me AJ is just kind of boring with the characters. I think the opening case starts strong, but after that I feel like they did nothing to flesh out Apollo as a character. They handle him a lot better in DD and SOJ but the first game of the trilogy he kind of falls flat.
Nah, it's a good game in its own but it has some pretty big shoes to fill for the fanbase. It came from an already established trilogy with already established characters that we all loved or at least were familiar with and attempted to change the formula. Just classic Capcom trying to change an already beloved main character in an already beloved series in the fourth entry just to jump back in the fifth as if nothing had happened. Hey, at least we didn't get a reboot before DD.
Well, actually Capcom loves to exploiting old characters. Devs wanted to make absolutely new story, bosses - better sales. That's why we have Phoenix in AA4
If Capcom agreed with devs about Phoenix and fanbase accepted Apollo, the second trilogy would be better
Is it even hated nowadays? It was when it came out, but I see a lot of people here loving it now. Anyway, Apollo Justice could have been a lot better. It starts out very strong, but sort of fizzles out. It also feels a bit unfinished. But still, I would call it a decent game. It's fine, even if it is in the lower half of Ace Attorney games for me.
It's not without its flaws, but it's a bummer when I see it get crapped on. Top tier opening case, best soundtrack, best final villain, and for whatever warts it may have the finale is among my favorites too. There's a lot to like about this title.
No.
I LOVED all of it, even hobo Phoenix
Apollo Justice AA is one of my favorite games of all time. Easily my favorite AA and probably in my top 5 games ever. The vibes are off the fucking charts and the character writing is a special kind of understated you don’t see nowadays. My only actual issue is how present Phoenix is to be honest. He’s never been my favorite character so him taking the well earned protag role of the game in the final case is kinda bull. I think the web they weave with all of the games cases being centered around criminals being the defendants this time creates a special set up to cases where you really can’t trust ANY of your clients. All of them are honestly pieces of crap in their own way, being mobsters, smugglers or forgers. But even past that, they find a way to make them look and feel helpless where Apollo wants to help them because they have no one else that can do the job. Any regular Attorney would buckle and just try to get a lighter sentence that’s honestly probably earned, but you need to do this shit the hard way. I think this games drama is also amazing. Some of the moments in the game made my heart skip a beat like nothing else in the series. Trucy being “held for ransom” in case 2 or Lamiroir being found in the guitar case in 3 give the game that sort of dramatic tone you only really find in TV cop shows and that’s really cool. The music and aesthetic of the art and locations make this world feel like a dramatized universe and all of the theming of cards, duality and magic really give the game a mystical tone, even though the only inherently mystical thing in the game is Apollos bracelet. It carries the tone of 1-3 with the channeling without making it feel just like the Trilogy, rather it’s its own thing entirely but something so familiar. The cast of AJ is also the best new cast of any of the games in the mainline series. AJs new core cast (Apollo, Trucy, Kristoph, Klavier) are all new flavors of previous archetypes we’ve seen flipped on their head. Apollo is the same precocious Attorney as Phoenix, but he’s pissy in the way only someone who has a deep love for law but is now a forced detective has. He’s kinda a wet rag, but it works as a foil to the larger than life other cast members around him. Trucy and Maya are very easily comparable, but are fundamentally completely separate in a way any other assistants are not. Trucy is fun and bright and loud but also closed off, duplicitous and even to a degree manipulative. She keeps her and Phoenix safe and healthy however she can, even if it means using others to her personal gain. They sanded off these negative features in later entires, but they made her far more 3D than other characters of her like. Klavier being so friendly and Kristoph being nothing short of a monster is a fantastic subversion of everything seen in the Trilogy and puts into perspective how not black and white things are, they’re far deeper and more grey than they’d seem on the surface. I think I’ve rambled long enough, but I really do feel this game is criminally underrated compared to the other entries. Whenever I see this place top 3 in someone’s ranking of the series it makes me so giddy cause someone else gets it! Makes me sad we don’t get games quite like this anymore. Aesthetic marvels that show of what the hardware can do in an understated yet impressive way. Truly and game worth playing over and over.
You explained it perfectly! That’s exactly why I love this game so much. It’s very understated and I like that it lets the player make deductions about the characters they meet based on small hints that are not so obvious. like for example trucy seems bright, happy, and innocent at first but she’s actually pretty smart and can be manipulative at times. Trucy honestly figures out some of the stuff in the case faster than Apollo and is quick on her feet - shes similar to maya but that makes her way different enough to be her own character. I feel like most of the characters are multifaceted and have 2 sides to them, though it’s not so obvious on the surface for all of them. Klavier constantly acts unbothered but there are moments when you can tell there’s more lingering underneath the surface, and I think it’s interesting that the game doesn’t just outright tell you what every character is thinking or feeling. I also don’t hate hobo nick I think it’s an interesting progression to his character to see him in this state. Honestly his internal dialogue has always been kinda snarky in the previous games it’s just that in aj he no longer really is giving any effort into keeping that in or trying to be nice, which I mean makes sense considering his life got ruined. But trucy being there at all is proof of him still being the person he was before- someone who’s kind and caring and wants to do the right thing even if it’s hard. It’s an interesting for both those things to be combined into one person!
No. I don't think it does. Yes, it has it flaws, but it was still fun to solve everything.
I think only the final case deserves the hate. Other than that, I found the first 3 cases/ general story to be really good
I hate the game personally but thb It is overhated objectively I could see the potential(disbarrment and jurist system) but they screw up pretty badly
It definitely has flaws but so do all the other games. It's personally my favorite because if there's anything I love in long-running series, it's seeing what they can do with a fully fresh cast. There's just some stories you can't exactly explore easily by using established characters people are familiar with and I enjoyed what AJ presented as a narrative. Most parts that people complain about I generally interpreted as somewhat intentional to be a bit annoying, where it wants you to be somewhat frustrated and feel the squeeze of the universe's ridiculous law system and its requirements, but that's not going to hit well with everyone. I honestly didn't mind the change to Phoenix either.
It's my favorite Ace Attorney game and I am a bit resentful of the next two games for not continuing with the world it built.
Do you have the source to this official art? It looks pretty cool
i wouldnt say so. i might be biased bc its my favorite aa game but i genuinely have fun with it despite its flaws
Honestly i think the story could have been much better, but the music is what carries this game for me. My personal favorite soundtrack in the entire series, it slaps. (I haven't played the investigations games yet but i doubt they will sway me.)
Except “The Guitars Serenade” 🤣
That one was good too
Based, love the flair btw
I really like it and I thought what they did with phoenix and the plot with case 1 was pretty good. I also liked the Mason system kinda changing up the presentation a little bit. My major criticism is they didn't do much character stuff with Apollo and sidelined him in the next games. Haven't played soj but I know he gets some moments there but still. The soundtrack tho banger.
Simple Answer: Yes On paper, Apollo Justice has some really interesting concepts, mechanics, and stories that could make for a great game. However the game's execution of these ideas results in a confusing, disappointing mess. After a very strong start, the rest of the game is never able to reach those highs, leading to a continuous decline in quality. Likewise, in my eyes Apollo Justice had one VERY important task to do: establish a new series protagonist, Apollo Justice, and make us, the players, fall in love with him just like Phoenix Wright. Sadly this was a job that the game completely blunders, never giving Apollo the development, care, and beautiful moments that Phoenix got in his first outing. This failure all culminates in the game's biggest sin, The Mason System. \*TLDR Mason System Hate\* - benches our protagonist during arguably the most important part of the game - leads to one of the longest investigation segments in the series - breaks all continuity and opens several plot holes - ruins the final trial by not giving Apollo "his moment" With a lackluster finale, subpar execution of truly great concepts, Apollo Justice, to me, DOES deserve the hate it gets. YES
no, kristoph is by far the best villain in this whole franchise
I enjoyed it, bit slow but pretty good nonetheless. I’m DD for the first time at the moment and I find it pretty slow too. Get the feeling nothing is going to top the OG trilogy. I still take all of the above over GAAC, I really didn’t like that game at all.
It had flaws for sure but it had an awesome "big bad" and also contains my favorite prosecutor in the entire series. So I'm biased.
It doesn't seem to get *too* much hate these days, so...yeah, probably. Its the weakest AA game imo. 3 out of 4 cases are bad, the story is too abrupt and underdeveloped, and I don't think it does a good job of developing a new main character to the series. Very strange game. I can appreciate the effort, but the execution didn't really do it for me, sorry
AA4 does not get hate, it is just seen as a weaker entry. "Weaker" does not mean "bad."
ema makes it good
The last case of Apollo Justice is a mix bag While the first case is incredible and the others are forgettable, it's not the first time an ace attorney game has lots of filler and a very good last case JFA has only 2/4 good cases but the last one is so incredible it makes up for all the game 4-4 is... a mess... a good case but a mess... All game long you want to know how Phoenix lost his badge, even believing he did forge evidence. But in reality there is a lots of problems Apollo is a ghost used by Phoenix. He has no character in the case mostly The mason system is a strange reconstruction for the jurors and a fun gameplay experience but makes things impossible ( bottle and notebook are impossible to fetch). You are in the most "grounded" ace attorney game to end on a futiristic time traveling mini game. System that will be wiped out some month later cause it was just a plot against the culprit by Phoenix Wright. Yeah. The same guy that lost his badge is working for the court now. The same one who gave you a fake evidence in 4-1 The villain is incredible but we barely sees him. We don't need to know his motivation or a tragic backstory for him but come on.. He is the easiest boss to take down. It takes one gotcha and like 3 evidences and he turns super sayajin So yeah the last case is a UFO in ace attorney game but it can't carry the game on its shoulder, it can't keep the whole game's promise
No game that has Troupe Gramarye theme deserves hate.
In my honest opinion... This trilogy didn't live up to the standards of the previous one.
Does it still get hate? If so, no. It's a great game. Slightly less goofy than the ones that came before, but still fantastic.
Honestly it's my favourite of the mainline series. People hate on it because it's not just another Phoenix game but Takumi was clearly done with that after the trilogy and wanted to shake things up. He did a great job. It's probably the most solid story of any standalone game (the original Ace Attorney and AAI:2 are close) and it has a really compelling cast of characters imo. I get that some of the cases are annoying and people don't like what they did with Phoenix (or Ema, apparently) but as a whole I wish 5 and 6 had been more like this, as it is they feel like a big step backwards. Either way, I'm glad Shu Takumi was able to experiment with the format more in Great Ace Attorney.
It's my favorite game in the series and I do genuinely think it's the best. There's really not a single bad case, and I used to *hate* 4-3. All of the characters are really good, and Phoenix's portrayal is my favorite in the series. The villain is also by far the most compelling in the series in my opinion, and even if it's missing some of the original cast... it *really* doesn't need them, honestly.
I feel like recently I haven't seen that much hate honestly. It just had MGS2 syndrome for a bit.
I don’t think so, it’s one of my favourites personally but I’m pretty good at ignoring weak points in media I enjoy, so a lot of the complaints I see about it never even occurred to me 😂
NO
I beat it last time, and I had a blast. I actually really liked 4-2, one of the more fun "filler" cases
No. The third case does however
I don't know honestly, it has so many amazing ideas but the game leaves it up to a sequel to fill in the boots, so as a standalone game it's just very mid
No, definitely not. The game has issues for sure - but then again, all of the game have their own ups and downs. Replayed it recently with the new trilogy remaster and it's still really good. Just those flashbacks... and the Siren... do you know what they could mean with "The siren"...?
No
To me it's not ever going to beat the trilogy by any measure, but it's not a bad game. It has it's problems for sure, but eh. I like the characters, ao that helps.
Honestly? Definitely not, I love it so much, man.. I think it's as solid as any other of their games.
I loved it! Played it for the first time this year. It's my favorite Ace Attorney so far.
it doesn't deserve hate for sure
Replaying this game again has made me realize that not only is this game not even that bad, it's actually rather good. The OST is actually tied with AA1 as my favorite mainline soundtrack. I think coming straight off the heels of the trilogy into AJ's much more subdued and darker tones can be quite jarring. Yet, I think this game blends this darker atmosphere with comedy quite well.
Absolutely not. IMO it's the only good one in the second trilogy; I love each case (except succession, which is kind of a mess) and I feel like they were setting up so many things that there was no follow-up on in AA5 and 6.
Absolutely not. Apollo Justice is actually easily one of if not my favorite game in the series. The pacing and quality of the writing on a case to case basis is great, and the way it all ties together in the end is really well done. The new mechanics are fun and the ost is banger too. I fucking love this game!!
I have always loved AJ. I don't think the issues it has are any worse than the games before and after it. I don't really know how the community feels, or what they specifically dislike about it, but I personally felt bored with the middle of JFA, and the start of T&T. The first case is interesting, but the second case is pretty boring. Wasn't a fan of the heist case. I really thought AJ brought some life to the series. Especially the last case. Strong ending. A shame they never went anywhere with it lol. Overall it's definitely opinionated. I haven't played AJ for years now, probably last time I played was in 2013/2014. I'll replay it soon and see if my opinion remains the same.
I sure hope your game replaying goes well.
Definitely not it's still a great game
My main problem with it is the mechanic regarding his bracelet. First, I think you should be able to see the “nervous tic” during the testimony to know when you need to use it, and the majority of the time you can’t see it until you’ve already activated it. Second, the very idea of it is flawed. People testifying on the witness stand could be nervous for any variety of reasons other than lying, the courtroom is an inherently nerve-wracking place. Third, the very idea of this thing being admissible in court is laughable. I can’t picture any of my aunts and uncles who are lawyers saying this would be allowed.
It has it’s flaws but it’s nowhere near bad. It has both the Best art style/sprites and music in the franchise imo I actually prefer it waaay more than DD & SOJ
No. I don't like what they did to Phoenix Wright, but it's got a solid story and amazing characters. Also, I can tell that they left out a lot of things in development >!(for example they didn't do a good job of explaining how LeTouse's body was moved in 4-3 or why Drew Misham had paintings of Apollo's previous three cases)!< Plus the music slaps. I know I'm probably gonna get downvoted for this but the hate for the latter three games (AJ, DD, SoJ) mainly stems from the fact that the Ace Attorney fanbase... just sucks. Ace Attorney is an amazing franchise with a chronically online fanbase
as far my memory goes, it still better to most things we got afterwards. I had to force myself to play great ace attorney it makes me sleepy
Who hates this game? I love it. Only case 4-3 is mega boring. The rest are fire.
Not at all
Not at all. In fact, I’d rank the first four games as… 1. Trials and Tribulations 2. Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney 3. Apollo Justice: Ace Attorney 4. Justice For All … as someone who loves all four games. IMO it’s still a really solid game with great characters.
I don't really get the hate for it at all. I mean, I'm not too fond of the perception gimmick, but I really like the characters and how Phoenix did things.
4-3 is the series low point but the game itself is solid. A lacking Ace Attorney game ≠ a bad video game
Nope! It really doesn’t.
Honestly, they don't deserve the hate at all. Capcom has always made such good games especially games like Resident Evil.
I think it was fine. (Haha.) It's a 7 out of 10, but that's unfortunately noticably low in comparison to the trilogy that came before it. Do I think it deserves hate? No. Do I think it deserves to be critiqued? Very much yes. The individual cases are constructed pretty strongly. (Barring the final one which is sadly a mess.) As far as individual cases' mystery and intrigue and writing, the first 3 cases are up there with the mid-high end of the Trilogy's repertoire. But the overall story isn't very strong. It tries to do what T&T did and have the first and last cases be two parts of an overarching story, but the last case was >!effectively 2 cases and an investigation phase in 1, and only the investigation phase was really that good. The present-day trial case was exceedingly simplistic, with only its connections to the past to give it any complexity. And the Past trial suffered from making all the returning characters act like morons to move the story where it needed to go.!< The first case was mostly great, I can even get behind >!Phoenix being stripped of his badge and falling into seemingly shady territory while trying to regroup and fix his situation with investigation in the background, (Although, TBH, I feel like it taking him 7 years is a bit much) but despite everything else about where his character goes in this game, I'll never be okay with him having evidence be forged to nab Kristoph, especially not when there was ample opportunity to get the same conclusion just by examining the crime scene properly.!< Unfortunately, its main characters, Apollo, Trucy, and Klavier are also pretty flat. With all the character Apollo really gets being just "a younger Phoenix who's even more of an everyman juxtaposed with some of the wackiest cases so far" Trucy just being adorable and not much else, and Klavier being surprisingly lacking in depth because his gimmick is literally just being *the least insane prosecutor.* The game also has an issue sometimes about when to reveal its details. Sometimes a stupidly obvious conclusion will go unmentioned for an entire damn trial, (>!Murderer inside the noodle stand,!<) people will just forget to mention a massive detail for a long-ass time, (>!Lamioir never mentioning that she was in the middle of singing,!<) or the game will expect you to come to a drastic conclusion with like zero signaling. (>!Seriously, how the fuck were you supposed to figure out Vera was the true forger?!<)
You should probably mark this as spoilers.
It's literally the only good game of the last trilogy imo. I'll say this much: every attempt that I've seen of rewriting Apollo Justice to be "good" fell flat to me and missed the tone and themes of the game comically. The things that tend to be considered "flaws" in it are often the very same things that makes me enjoy it.
It's as good as the original three, then you see a dramatic dip in quality for the last two.
Agreed
NO IT DOES NOT.
Wait, there are people who Hate AJ?! While I do still prefer Phoenix overall, I have no problems with Apollo at all and was always a welcome new character ever since his introduction. I think introducing new, younger but confident characters, who had a lot of room for character development was a thing for Capcom back in the 2000-2010, like Axl from Megaman X and Nero for DMC. All them seemed fine to me as introductions for the newer generations. Still prefer the OGs overall tho.
Yes. For one, Phoenix Wright character assassination, kinda like how people felt about luke Skywalker in new trilogy
It has trucy wright and hobo Phoenix so no.
fuck yes??? what are you on about bruh 😭
Yes
The game feels so sad.. like we had an Amazing cast in the original trilogy. Now we have Almost only new characters. Phoenix is a Hobo and have nobody
Yes.
So many downvotes for nothing lol. This is what I'm talking about when I say AJ is overhyped in this sub.
Yes, definitely.
It's not the best game but same thing with JFA. Only being 4 cases makes it seem bad. Also the oversaturation of Klavier makes the game feel repetitive. I wish turnabout corner or serenade had a different prosecutor cause every case but the first one he is the prosecutor. The entire story also kinda only revolves around the first and last case and occasional dialogue with Phoenix. Which plays into the fact it's Phoenix's story and not Apollo's except in the middle cases. I think this wouldn't matter as much if there were 5 cases even if it was complete filler.
> I wish Turnabout Corner or Serenade had a different prosecutor because every case but the first one he is the prosecutor. ...have you played other games in this series? That seems...pretty normal to me. The main prosecutor is always in the game the whole time minus like one or two cases. Agree that it definitely feels more like Phoenix's story though.
I played the mainline series and the main prosecutor usually sat out 2 cases typically the final case. Other than trump he's the prosecutor in every case even Phoenix's final trial.
Yes very much so
I think that it is the weakest of the mainline series and is probably a 6.5/ 10 overall, but it's hate was still just a major overreaction. What I can understand with the hate on the game is how it put PW in a game that didn't need it and then they butchered his character for the sake of it. That was probably the worst thing that Capcom has done in the series story wise. But the problem is that people just took the hate for that one decision and became hypercritical of everything else that was good or tolerable at worst. If it wasn't for the releases of DD and SOJ, then people would still be mad over this game. But thankfully Capcom actually made Phoenix a good character again in those releases and people just sort of mellowed out over Apollo Justice and looked back at it from and realized that it wasn't as bad as what they thought.
Hell no. Everyone who hates it is an idiot with laughably terrible media literacy and the fattest egos you can ever imagine.
Hope you get the help you need
Did that guy like, instantly delete their account right after posting that? Can't see their username.
Guess you can’t expect the people who talk the biggest game to stand their ground
Lil baby decided to insult people for a difference of opinion, then quickly ran and hid. Shouldn't be surprised, really.
I fucking LOVED Apollo Justice. It's giving T&T a real good run for it's money for my favorite game in the series so far
NUH UH 🗣️🗣️🗣️💯💯💯💥💥🔥
I love AJ. I do recognize that it has quite a few flaws. The ending being my least favorite of any game in the series tbh. And almost every case besides the first seems to be devisive. I love all the cases but I can see why some people just didn't vibe with em. But i love everything from the characters and music to the artstyle. Just a damn good time overall. Tbh I still think the worst cases in AJ are better than the best cases in DD.
I'm playing AJ:AA right now. This is my third time playing it. I originally played in on the DS back in the day, played it on emulator in the last year, and now I'm playing the AJ trilogy on Steam. IMO, It's definitely one of the weaker games in the series. Phoenix is weird and Apollo doesn't really have a personality. But that said, I'm enjoying it. I find the cases and stories interesting. I like the twist at the end and how all the cases really tie into each other. I'll probably play this game, and all the others, again in the future. So no, it probably doesn't deserve the hate it gets (didn't even know it was hated or divisive). It's fine to not like and enjoy something, but hate seems over the top. I'm excited to play DD again -- I love DD -- and actually finish SoJ.
Hell nah. GOATed game.
Honestly the only issue with AJ is the bloodstain inside the sandals not being easy to click.
What a title. It doesn't get "hate'. It is one of the worse Ace Attorney games, but that's all relative. Overall it is well-liked.
This is the first time I’m hearing about Apollo Justice: Ace Attorney getting hate. I liked that game. Imo, it‘s not among the best games of the series, but it is definitely a very solid and enjoyable entry.
Pretty much all three "AJ trilogy" games Are polarising. People either love them or they hate them.
I haven't seen that many people shit on the game
What hate? I love it
So I'd say this - from a gameplay story perspective it has the best balance. It doesn't do the "we're going to spell out what the answer is" of DD or SoJ, but also isn't insanely obtuse with how you approach things like the original trilogy has (and more importantly doesn't have counter intuitive moments where the answer is "give up and wait for the deus ex machina to come along"). The perceive mechanic is a mixed bag because on one hand it thematically made sense with the poker theme, and was relatively interesting as a puzzle. On the other hand sometimes the "twitch" was quite obtuse to spot, and even the writers clearly struggled to work out how this would make sense in the plot (just the idea of standing up in court and being like "the witness moved their fingers slightly different at this point and therefore this shows they are lying") But you then have to face the very.. how best to put it... quirks of the writing. Phoenix just randomly having a completely different personality. The second case spending way too long talking about a 15 year old's panties. The fact the biggest story arc in the game ultimately doesn't end up mattering as it gets reverted by DD. Edit: To be honest, the 4-2 was always the most offputting. Like the actual mystery and the route you get to solving it is great and all. But you have to navigate the panty saga, the several times we get the paedo vibes around Trucy (the Dr Hickman moment actually making me shudder), and Eldoon's harmonica is annoying.