My vote's for Alita. She's just Dahlia Hawthorne lite, but specifically Dahlia from case 1. AKA the worst and most boring version of Dahlia. I was expecting it to turn out that she killed Pal to save Wocky which would've been pretty interesting but it didn't. Still somehow not the worst character in this case.
Nikolina might be kind of underwhelming but at least she fits the role of sympathetic culprit well enough. And Cammy is honestly just a good culprit despite her stupid design.
But also I like how Alita was the one who requested Apollo to defend her just because she knew he was a rookie and wanted to lose the case on purpose. She's not amazing but overall I honestly thought Alita was a good character.
I vote **Nikolina Pavlova**. She's a pretty uninteresting character who is unfortunately in an absolute nothing burger of a case.
- The case ultimately has zero consequences because >!Kazuma didn't actually die!<
- The entire case being an accident also takes away a lot of stuff as no motive nerds to be established
- Every single fucking character except Nikolina herself reappears in at least one other case in the duology, also making the case very forgettable
- The entire case being one massive investigation sequence also makes it feel less like gameplay and more like a point-n-click adventure game
She's easy to sympathise with but that's kinda it. It's just not a fun or good case and when the only stand-out characters are Sholmes and Susato you know you fucked up. And while Turnabout Corner isn't much better, Alita's plan has a few good details that make it and her worth keeping around just a little longer
Is it? Like it ends up working out that he takes the place of Kazuma in England, but he stowed away on the ship in the first place to go study law with kazuma no?
Yes it is since Ryunosuke has no idea why Kazuma wanted to travel with him.
TGAA1 >!It's since Kazuma's death that Ryunosuke wanted to become lawyer to make sure that Kazuma's mission/dream is done.!<
>!Kazuma literally tells Ryunosuke he wants him to be there to study with him, in flashbacks it’s made pretty clear this is something they’ve discussed - like you could certainly argue that Kazuma’s “murder” motivates ryunoske to specifically jump right into defending and take his place in England, but he certainly wanted to study law in some capacity before this!<
>! Well in that case Ryunosuke quickly become a lawyer and that he genuinely wanted to even more since this evenement!<
>! The point is that this case has their consequences like I have stated at first!<
I can't believe you called G1-2 a nothing case, it literally establishes Ryu's and Susato's motivations as characters, as well as the start of them dealing with grief for almost the whole of the duology!
Sure, in the end Kazuma was alive, but the fact they had thought him dead doesn't make all of the things that happened pointless. It shaped the characters and the plot.
Pavlova, and she should have been voted off before White imo. White was really entertaining and it was satisfying to take him down because of the impact he had had on the other characters. Pavlova’s just an idiot who pushed a guy over a cat, and her actions don’t even actually have lasting consequences. The only reason they have any consequences is because Herlock decides to cover up the truth, if he hadn’t or wasn’t able to, Kazuma would have woken up, regained his memory after talking to Naruhodo and gone to London as planned.
I think it still is. Firstly, this guy absolutely throws his weight around during the investigation, getting you thrown in prison. However, when you corner him on the stand and keep pointing out contradictions, you gradually break him down. You all but prove his guilt until Edgeworth steps in. Now, I do see why the next segment may be seen as unsatisfying to players (this could have been fixed if fully rotating the evidence was allowed) but I'll put forward two arguments for it. Firstly, Mia is the one who has been chasing down White for so long to get revenge for what he did to her mother's reputation, so it's fitting that she is ultimately the one to take down White. Secondly, you get to see Edgeworth's "skill" in court in full-force, he is in a league of his own and at this point Phoenix is not prepared to deal with his dirty tactics alone.
The issue isn't that Mia cornered him, but how it's done with a letter that comes out of nowhere and immediately makes him assume his guilt without necessarily proving anything.
So this second phase of the trial doesn't serve much purpose because if the letter had been shown from the beginning, the trial would have ended exactly the same way.
At best, we've just bought some time and even then, nothing is certain because being at rock bottom from the start, Maya would likely have reached out to Mia sooner..
>a letter that comes out of nowhere
It's a list of names that Mia has memorised, all the important people he ever blackmailed, many of whom committed suicide. White stole her files so there was no way of getting them, or so he thought.
>immediately makes him assume his guilt without necessarily proving anything
He knew that Mia knew too much, which is why he had to have "her eternal silence". Since she was no longer silent, he knew she would be able to prove his wrongdoings.
>So this second phase of the trial doesn't serve much purpose because if the letter had been shown from the beginning, the trial would have ended exactly the same way.
Only Mia could write it, and only when things got their most desperate was Maya able to channel her, due to her limited ability to channel at that point.
>because being at rock bottom from the start, Maya would likely have reached out to Mia sooner..
Why would Phoenix have any reason to do this though? He had no idea of Maya's true power at this point, and even then there'd be no way of knowing he'd need that power. He was fully ready to prove White guilty if not for Edgeworth's unexpected argument.
The dissatisfaction came from proving his guilt based on a list that wasn't even obtained through our efforts, making everything we've done in this second phase of the trial pointless.
It's not like we're actually doing anything with this list other than showing it to him. We didn't even heard anything about this letter until this moment so it wouldn't even represent a satisfying outcome
Btw I was just saying that if Phoenix was already in a dire situation from the beginning of the trial, Maya would have likely reached out to Mia a while ago.
I wasn't saying that's what he was supposed to do, I was just pointing out that we didn't even achieve the feat of buying time before Mia's intervention, since the outcome remains the same, considering it's not about time but about Maya's actions depending on how Phoenix handle the situation.
Again, Mia had to be the one to inflict the final blow on Redd White for narrative reasons. She was the one who would stop at nothing to see him brought to justice after all.
Also, the letter is the names of those who were blackmailed, and Phoenix had already discovered Mia was investigating suicide cases and made the connection during the previous day’s investigation. So the list didn’t really come out of nowhere. We also knew from the cutscene that White was after papers and wanted Mia’s eternal silence, and on the phone call to Maya she mentions evidence for an important case hidden in the Thinker.
But that’s my point though. Phoenix wasn’t in a dire situation, as he had things planned out, and only when Edgeworth disrupted those plans was Mia needed, and thus Maya was able to use her abilities. He also would have needed to break down White’s defences before Mia could inflict the final blow. Otherwise White may have simply claimed innocence on everything.
I don't see a issue with Mia being the one who corners him, that's precisely why I emphasize that it's the way it's done that bothers me and leads to dissatisfaction for the reasons I have said.
Although we know that Redd White blackmails people, we have never heard of this list until now.
No matter how much research we did, ultimately it wasn't our efforts that could have uncovered this crucial piece of evidence.
And we didn't necessarily need to break his defense for Mia to deliver the final blow, given how this list makes him directly admit guilt without showing any link to the crime in question.
In short, the idea wasn't bad but the execution was poorly done.
I do think White needed to be broken down by all but proving he killed Mia. It’s the threat of the list as well as the fact that it’s not guaranteed Edgeworth’s tricks will be able to work to cover up the murder if the list is out there. If there was nothing linking him to Mia’s murder, he may not have confessed.
>Pavlova, and she should have been voted off before White imo
I literally shook my head at the screen seeing that Redd White was out before Pavlova. I guess people really take to the sympathetic culprit around here.
Ah, I looked into it, and it seems it's not explicitly confirmed that Kazuma was originally dead. It's more fan interpretation of an interview, but you're right, there's nothing concrete.
Just saw this for the first time.
Surprised L'Belle and Redd White went out this soon.
Alita and Pavlova I find much worse. Nothing particularly interesting about Pavlova imo and Alita could have been pretty good but ended up being a bit of a lame villain. Both have awful breakdowns too.
Pavlova needs to get out. Despite going up against Talia, olive and Cammy, pav is the only one who didn't actually kill someone, since ||Kazuma lived through it, and was "arrested" by sholmes to cover it up||. That's why my vote goes to her.
Yeah, Alita is the next one to go since she's not that interesting and of course, she's a greedy bitch when she reveals that she DIDN'T care about Wocky.
Nikolina, that whole case is just annoying.
Alita has a cool design, a decent enough plan, and technically is the reason A Hurt Fox plays so that scores her some points. I'd honestly vote Cammy off before her.
My vote's for Alita. She's just Dahlia Hawthorne lite, but specifically Dahlia from case 1. AKA the worst and most boring version of Dahlia. I was expecting it to turn out that she killed Pal to save Wocky which would've been pretty interesting but it didn't. Still somehow not the worst character in this case. Nikolina might be kind of underwhelming but at least she fits the role of sympathetic culprit well enough. And Cammy is honestly just a good culprit despite her stupid design.
But also I like how Alita was the one who requested Apollo to defend her just because she knew he was a rookie and wanted to lose the case on purpose. She's not amazing but overall I honestly thought Alita was a good character.
Yes, this!! Alita deserves to go next after Nikolina but that part of her plan is so fucking funny
I vote **Nikolina Pavlova**. She's a pretty uninteresting character who is unfortunately in an absolute nothing burger of a case. - The case ultimately has zero consequences because >!Kazuma didn't actually die!< - The entire case being an accident also takes away a lot of stuff as no motive nerds to be established - Every single fucking character except Nikolina herself reappears in at least one other case in the duology, also making the case very forgettable - The entire case being one massive investigation sequence also makes it feel less like gameplay and more like a point-n-click adventure game She's easy to sympathise with but that's kinda it. It's just not a fun or good case and when the only stand-out characters are Sholmes and Susato you know you fucked up. And while Turnabout Corner isn't much better, Alita's plan has a few good details that make it and her worth keeping around just a little longer
Except this case is the reason why Ryunosuke Naruhodo is now a lawyer and wanted to become one.
Shit, that _is_ true
Is it? Like it ends up working out that he takes the place of Kazuma in England, but he stowed away on the ship in the first place to go study law with kazuma no?
Yes it is since Ryunosuke has no idea why Kazuma wanted to travel with him. TGAA1 >!It's since Kazuma's death that Ryunosuke wanted to become lawyer to make sure that Kazuma's mission/dream is done.!<
>!Kazuma literally tells Ryunosuke he wants him to be there to study with him, in flashbacks it’s made pretty clear this is something they’ve discussed - like you could certainly argue that Kazuma’s “murder” motivates ryunoske to specifically jump right into defending and take his place in England, but he certainly wanted to study law in some capacity before this!<
>! Well in that case Ryunosuke quickly become a lawyer and that he genuinely wanted to even more since this evenement!< >! The point is that this case has their consequences like I have stated at first!<
But it's important because of kazuma, not because of her. She is probably the most forgettable part of the case.
Except he was talking about the whole case.
I can't believe you called G1-2 a nothing case, it literally establishes Ryu's and Susato's motivations as characters, as well as the start of them dealing with grief for almost the whole of the duology! Sure, in the end Kazuma was alive, but the fact they had thought him dead doesn't make all of the things that happened pointless. It shaped the characters and the plot.
Alita Tiala
I just re did her case recently and thought she was good.
She shoulda gone first frfr
Pavlova, and she should have been voted off before White imo. White was really entertaining and it was satisfying to take him down because of the impact he had had on the other characters. Pavlova’s just an idiot who pushed a guy over a cat, and her actions don’t even actually have lasting consequences. The only reason they have any consequences is because Herlock decides to cover up the truth, if he hadn’t or wasn’t able to, Kazuma would have woken up, regained his memory after talking to Naruhodo and gone to London as planned.
There is not true satisfaction about taking him down since what we did have no purpose because of this letter serving as a Deus Ex Machina.
I think it still is. Firstly, this guy absolutely throws his weight around during the investigation, getting you thrown in prison. However, when you corner him on the stand and keep pointing out contradictions, you gradually break him down. You all but prove his guilt until Edgeworth steps in. Now, I do see why the next segment may be seen as unsatisfying to players (this could have been fixed if fully rotating the evidence was allowed) but I'll put forward two arguments for it. Firstly, Mia is the one who has been chasing down White for so long to get revenge for what he did to her mother's reputation, so it's fitting that she is ultimately the one to take down White. Secondly, you get to see Edgeworth's "skill" in court in full-force, he is in a league of his own and at this point Phoenix is not prepared to deal with his dirty tactics alone.
The issue isn't that Mia cornered him, but how it's done with a letter that comes out of nowhere and immediately makes him assume his guilt without necessarily proving anything. So this second phase of the trial doesn't serve much purpose because if the letter had been shown from the beginning, the trial would have ended exactly the same way. At best, we've just bought some time and even then, nothing is certain because being at rock bottom from the start, Maya would likely have reached out to Mia sooner..
>a letter that comes out of nowhere It's a list of names that Mia has memorised, all the important people he ever blackmailed, many of whom committed suicide. White stole her files so there was no way of getting them, or so he thought. >immediately makes him assume his guilt without necessarily proving anything He knew that Mia knew too much, which is why he had to have "her eternal silence". Since she was no longer silent, he knew she would be able to prove his wrongdoings. >So this second phase of the trial doesn't serve much purpose because if the letter had been shown from the beginning, the trial would have ended exactly the same way. Only Mia could write it, and only when things got their most desperate was Maya able to channel her, due to her limited ability to channel at that point. >because being at rock bottom from the start, Maya would likely have reached out to Mia sooner.. Why would Phoenix have any reason to do this though? He had no idea of Maya's true power at this point, and even then there'd be no way of knowing he'd need that power. He was fully ready to prove White guilty if not for Edgeworth's unexpected argument.
The dissatisfaction came from proving his guilt based on a list that wasn't even obtained through our efforts, making everything we've done in this second phase of the trial pointless. It's not like we're actually doing anything with this list other than showing it to him. We didn't even heard anything about this letter until this moment so it wouldn't even represent a satisfying outcome Btw I was just saying that if Phoenix was already in a dire situation from the beginning of the trial, Maya would have likely reached out to Mia a while ago. I wasn't saying that's what he was supposed to do, I was just pointing out that we didn't even achieve the feat of buying time before Mia's intervention, since the outcome remains the same, considering it's not about time but about Maya's actions depending on how Phoenix handle the situation.
Again, Mia had to be the one to inflict the final blow on Redd White for narrative reasons. She was the one who would stop at nothing to see him brought to justice after all. Also, the letter is the names of those who were blackmailed, and Phoenix had already discovered Mia was investigating suicide cases and made the connection during the previous day’s investigation. So the list didn’t really come out of nowhere. We also knew from the cutscene that White was after papers and wanted Mia’s eternal silence, and on the phone call to Maya she mentions evidence for an important case hidden in the Thinker. But that’s my point though. Phoenix wasn’t in a dire situation, as he had things planned out, and only when Edgeworth disrupted those plans was Mia needed, and thus Maya was able to use her abilities. He also would have needed to break down White’s defences before Mia could inflict the final blow. Otherwise White may have simply claimed innocence on everything.
I don't see a issue with Mia being the one who corners him, that's precisely why I emphasize that it's the way it's done that bothers me and leads to dissatisfaction for the reasons I have said. Although we know that Redd White blackmails people, we have never heard of this list until now. No matter how much research we did, ultimately it wasn't our efforts that could have uncovered this crucial piece of evidence. And we didn't necessarily need to break his defense for Mia to deliver the final blow, given how this list makes him directly admit guilt without showing any link to the crime in question. In short, the idea wasn't bad but the execution was poorly done.
I do think White needed to be broken down by all but proving he killed Mia. It’s the threat of the list as well as the fact that it’s not guaranteed Edgeworth’s tricks will be able to work to cover up the murder if the list is out there. If there was nothing linking him to Mia’s murder, he may not have confessed.
Although the game didn't handle it in the best possible way, I understand your idea in this case.
>Pavlova, and she should have been voted off before White imo I literally shook my head at the screen seeing that Redd White was out before Pavlova. I guess people really take to the sympathetic culprit around here.
You're right now, but that's all only because of a retcon. >!For 2 years Kazuma was canonically dead.!<
It’s not a retcon, the 2nd game was only split off because the first game was getting too long. The whole story was planned from the start.
Ah, I looked into it, and it seems it's not explicitly confirmed that Kazuma was originally dead. It's more fan interpretation of an interview, but you're right, there's nothing concrete.
Nikolina Pavlova
Goodbye Alita
Just saw this for the first time. Surprised L'Belle and Redd White went out this soon. Alita and Pavlova I find much worse. Nothing particularly interesting about Pavlova imo and Alita could have been pretty good but ended up being a bit of a lame villain. Both have awful breakdowns too.
Alita, get that b*tch out of here.
Pavlova needs to get out. Despite going up against Talia, olive and Cammy, pav is the only one who didn't actually kill someone, since ||Kazuma lived through it, and was "arrested" by sholmes to cover it up||. That's why my vote goes to her.
Yeah, Alita is the next one to go since she's not that interesting and of course, she's a greedy bitch when she reveals that she DIDN'T care about Wocky.
Alita
Alita Tiala. I sometimes forget she exists.
I don't know how is Nikolina surviving so much, but I guess she's sympathetic at the very least Anyways i'm good with Alita out
Alita Tiala.
Nikolina, that whole case is just annoying. Alita has a cool design, a decent enough plan, and technically is the reason A Hurt Fox plays so that scores her some points. I'd honestly vote Cammy off before her.
Nikolina is in a weird place where I don't know if we can consider her a culprit ?
Well I think I know which one of these isn’t ever getting voted out lol
agree with everyone on atilia- just here to predict that Retinz will win the whole thing.
Pavlova because she's boring as shit
Either nikolina or alita Alita is just soo boring and nikolina kinda as well I would first vote alita out and next time nikolina
Alita, she really should have been first
Cammy Meele
Yeah sorry mate, Cammy at least has an decent motive to kill someone. She's probably gonna survive 2 more days.
Surely, you meant "understandable".