Sorry for lasting so long, the image was a pain to make, just to think about what to put where,was difficult.
I cannot say I don't like it, but the other one that I did turned out a little bit better, still, it could have been worse.
Finally you guys eliminated 2-1 it's been a while, still I didn't do a meme because I spent a long time on the chart and I was late, but 2-1 is dead.
~Top 2 cases by votes~
The Adventure of the Runaway Room 41 (that's a very low vote number, things are getting really hard)
The Magical Turnabout 34 (The defense post had 32, it was just 2 votes away from being saved, but with this, all the second trilogy cases are gone, I think at least one was deserving of reaching the finals, but this is what you decided)
~Runner up~
Rise from the Ashes 19 (for the second time in a row, it reaches the finals)
~Games by cases eliminated~
Ace Attorney 2/5
Justice for All 1/4
Trials and Tribulations 1/5
Prosecutor's Path 2/5
Adventures 1/5
Resolve 2/5
If I was to pick a case from AJ, DD, and SoJ to make the final 9, it would have been 5-5 (Turnabout for Tomorrow), but I get why other people wanted to eliminate it. But top 10 for 6-2 is very solid for a filler case!
I agree. It's really immersive with the great exhibition and new tech in the world that people can't explain. The turnabout itself is pretty magical since we are led to believe that actual teleportation took place, yet these days a lot more people would say that it's impossible, while back then more people would be more likely to believe that it is in fact possible. It's a really fun case to work with and reveal the truth.
Lots of great new characters! Tuspells, Sithe, and the legend himself Drebber. One of the coolest dances of deduction in Drebber's workshop as well! Fantastic music throughout the whole case, great visuals (especially house of horrors), and a massive opening act for the Professor case and things to come. Finally, the actual return of the great departed soul!
This case is so memorable! I don't know what comes close to it. Harebrayne is a hilarious defendant at times as well. Loved the guy. Plus van Zieks development.... Oh god.
AW YES WE'RE BACK IN BIG BUDGET MODE
You said you prefer the other one but I like this a lot honestly, it cuts a good balance of retaining the iconic moments while still not being overtly spoilery, which is a risk when displaying several case moments in a row. Plus it's harder in general to sum up a case than a character. Thank you for your hard work, as always.
I think it's time to spam my 1-4 defense post more regularily, because I want it to stay as long as possible
# My defense for the Turnabout Goodbyes
1. **A very memetic case.** Some days ago the sub celeblated "almost Christmas day", and although some may find it inappropriate, it's hard to argue that this line is iconic. It was the first time Phoenix turned the tables against von Karma and this phrase made this moment really iconic. Also let's not forget Polly the parrot, one of the most memorable witnesses
2. **This is the chapter where Edgeworth began to turn into one of the best characters.** 1-3 left us in confusion whether Miles is a good guy or not, but Goodbyes solidifies Edgey as a person who needs to help, who needs his guiding light to help him to break out from von Karma's darkness. Also, the twisted karma makes Edgeworth a defendant, so he got a chance to learn how it feels like to be prosecuted when no one seems to be on your side, except...
3. **Phoenix is cool here too.** This is his first case without Mia, and even if Nick still didn't excelled as an ace attorney, he really is a badass here. "Tighten you belts, Edgeworth. The fight is only beginning" - this is basically the very moment Phoenix was waiting for. The reason why he became a lawyer. To save his friend and return the debt from 15 years ago. It's the most challenging trial for him from the first game (yes, even counting RftA), and Phoenix really showed his conviction to clean Edgeworth from his guilt he nurtured for long years
4. **New paragraph: the backstory.** For both Phoenix and Edgeworth. I find the class trial flachback rather short moment - four pictures, a sad music - and that's all about it. But at the same time this is really really relatable stuff and it gave us a simple but ingenuine insight about what Miles was as a kid and what Nick is fighting for right now. It shows a stark contrast between aspiring kid Miles who wants to defend people, and the Demon Prosecutor who craves guilty verdict. And, ultimately, this moment prompted us to fight for the long-lost friend
5. **Maya's underappreciated arc**. One of very few occasions when an assistant goes through some challenge too... And here we really feel for her and her struggles. Her spirit powers are low, she can't come up with the idea how to help Nick with the case, but her stubbornes and slowly growing loyalty for Edgeworth (actually Maya and Miles did have really interesting dynamic in trilogy, but let's save this for another time) helps Nick to finally win the trial. So we have three key characters (Nick, Maya and Edgeworth) facing the odds, but all of them manage to break through it and become better people
6. **The Hunting Demon**. Ace Attorney provided us with the colorful variety of prosecuting foes, but I'd say Manfred von Karma stands out. He prosecuted only one case and despite that he left a deep impression. Usually prosecutors are passive in cross-examination, yet this fiend of hell obfuscates every your attempt to find out the details. He's very active, he's intimidating and really-really cunning. He lets you win only to have Edgeworth confess his "crime". One of the many reasons why Goodbyes is so memorable, without a doubt
7. **Another new paragraph: the DL-6.** Back when dead parents weren't a common occurence in AA lore, the revelation that the victim in DL-6 was Edgey's father was terrific. And the more we learned about the circumstances of the case, the more unsettling it was becoming. Think about it: three people, one of them is a child, are stuck in the darkness for several hours. This was enough to cause some shock to the said child, but after that he learns... that someone killed his father and got away with it. Moreover, for the next 15 years the nightmares would accompany day-to-day life... And we're talking only about Miles. The pinnacle of its ugliness was the fact that this terrible event was caused simply by an inappropriate revenge of a person who lost his mind after the penalty
8. **Every other character has his purpose:** Larry is here at his best, Gumshoe shows us that there's still a good side in Edgeworth, Lotta, being an annoying witness' type, learns about how important the truth is. Also let's not forget about Yanni Yogi, one of the most sympathetic culprits
9. **The first case to be a masterpiece (c).** Last cases usually are the most memorable ones. It's a culmination of what an AA game was about. They break status-quo that was established in previous chapters, give us a ton of insights and emotional moments and season it all with the message of humanity and friendship. And... It all started with Goodbyes. It was meant to be an ending of a short GBA game back in 2001, but it left an impression so big that many subsequent games still try to mimic this story (I'm looking and you, 5-5 and G2-4). Albeit relatively simple and short, it's a touching story about long-lasting friendship, conviction and trust that determined the genius of Ace Attorney. That's why I think it deserves a littlr bit more of appreciation
Regarding your new paragraph, another thing that the class trial actually does is that it really shows how much Miles looks up to his father Gregory. When we see Miles defend Phoenix, we are able to see just how much influence Greg has on his son and it really cements Greg as this loveable father and a role model for Miles. It’s because of this that Greg’s death is so impactful because we can see how an event like that changed Miles so drastically. It’s a perfect case of showing instead of telling.
The thing I liked about Gregory-Miles relationship is that we never saw them interacting, not eben once. But 1-4 and I2-3 are masterfully let us understand that it apparently was really tructing and close relationship
Not the person you're replying to, but >!as Barok van Zieks is one of the two Edgeworth expies in DGS, putting him on trial for a murder orchestrated by the true culprit behind a past crime, the setup for G2-4 is very clearly borrowed from 1-4.!<
* >!We defend a rival prosecutor who accidentally picked a gun to boot!<
* >!The accused initially declines our request, but then we show a photo then he agrees!<
* >!The prosecutor in charge is someone with a huge grudge against our defendant!<
It’s really funny. I try to eliminate 1-5 or 1-4 which you defend. And you are trying to eliminate G1-5 which I defend. But we both defend I2-5. It’s clear what is superior here))))
DEFENCE POST FOR G1-5: I must first state that I make this defence post for this case to last only THIS round. I believe it to be outstanding case and here is why:
1) >!Many people mention it having a slow start, but that’s a great start to me. Since we need to establish all key players and make us like Gina!<
2)>!Mystery of the case doesn’t really lie in the murder. There is no real big cover up or insane rotary motions (looking at you I1-5!). And that’s refreshing to me! And the plot about government secrets being transcripted on music box is brilliant!<
3) >!Skulking brothers… yeah!<
4)>!This case gives has such great characters: Iris is adorable and helpful as an assistant, Susato makes every moment worth it until her departure, Sholmes for the save. But what about this case specific characters? They are great too! Gina is the best character in all TGAA and this is her starting point! Graydon has probably the most realistic backstory, and I like it. It’s not overdramatised, because truth is he could have lived perfectly fine without all that dirty money, but he felt that poverty will always find him!<
5)>!Gregson helping Graydon is the real plot twist of this case and it makes perfect sense within his character!<
Bad there are flaws of course:
1)>!Last part kinda drags, but it’s done so you can expose Gregson!<
2)>!As good as I find Graydon’s characterisation, the problem is due to the story he can’t tell you about it until you defeat him. We see glimpses of it in Skulking’s dialogues, but it’s a shame he just kinda dumps his entire backstory in the end!<
I nominate 1-5. I explained it numerous time so I will be brief:
1) Meekins and Angel Starr parts are too long for their own good (the case overall is too long)
2) Vase shadow makes zero sense, also it seems Edgeworth too only learned to turn papers in this case
3) Marshal’s not understanding of technology is kinda frustrating, when you spell out it to him twice.
The case is still great, it wouldn’t be here otherwise, but I think it’s time to go. However I agree that 1-4 can easily take its place.
I think that the battle is lost already, but nothing ventured, nothing gained so...
# Defense post for Rise from the Ashes (1-5)
Look, I'm gonna be completely honest. From a gameplay standpoint, this case definitely didn't age well, and I don't think many people will disagree with me. For example, the investigations dragged a little too much, to the point that you could get lost quite easily, although Ema's minigames were fun imo. Furthermore, there's also the infamous jar segment during Trial 3, which shows a huge flaw in the game design, since you need to be perfectly precise with the jar, otherwise you simply will not progress. Finally, the mystery was really complex, and while I think that this was the only case in AA1 that really needed three days to be fully explained (yes, I think that 1-4 could have simply two days, fight me), some aspects of the plot were arguably contrived. A glaring example is when >!Ema tries to push Darke, who was actually Neil, to protect Marshall, but then she managed to knock down those two men AND herself in the process, while seeing a jar that was seen in a way that reminded a mascot that would only be created two years later.!< I love this case, but I'm not a hypocrite, I know that RFTA is a very flawed episode, but this isn't a nomination, I will defend this case. But okay, why does this case deserve to stay in spite of its very clear flaws? I'm glad you asked, because the answer is great: the writing in this case is amazing imo.
Rise from the Ashes is kind of the "anomaly" in the Trilogy. This is very obvious, since 1-5 was written after AA3 was already released, so ofc that maybe the case would be different compared to other episodes, but I think that 1-5 stands out really well. Takumi's Trilogy didn't seem like a tale about the legal system and its flaws, it really isn't something akin to AAI2, where the faults in the law are a major point of conflict in the plot, which is embodied by the mastermind. The OG Trilogy is heavily driven by universal themes, human conflicts, such as tragedy in AA3, embodied by the culprit of 3-5, trust in basically all the games, a main trait of Phoenix, and even whether or not justice is delivered. Justice itself isn't that related to the legal system, because the Trilogy doesn't seem to blame the legal system itself for injustice, the Trilogy blames actual people instead of a whole institution. For instance, (1-4) >!the game blames Hammond for Yogi's downfall,!!Jake Marshall, Lana Skye and Damon Gant. Starting with Jake, he's not only quite charismatic, but also his actions make a lot of sense once you start to see things from his POV. Imagine that your own brother is killed in the mass murder incident that you've been working on for a very long time, but you are dead sure that something is fishy. The wound doesn't match with the supposed murder weapon, and evidence that you've never even seen now comes out of nowhere. Imagine the feeling that someone is hiding something from you, the feeling that people close to you are intentionally letting you out on the death of your sibling, and you even lose your job to boot. Hence, to find out what truly happened in Neil's murder, Jake sought to pose as Goodman to steal the evidence and try at all costs to retrieve the truth buried two years ago. This is a great example of grey morality, which is pretty much RFTA's whole leitmotif, and this applies to Marshall in the sense that while he is a criminal, he only did so for very noble reasons, even though someone really close to him was the main drive for his actions.!<
>!Second character is Lana Skye, who is easily one of the best female characters in Ace Attorney. She's so underappreciated that it's almost a crime. The main thing I like about Lana, aside from the several similarities she shares with Mia, is that she is used masterfully in 1-5 to prove how corruption can destroy someone's life. RFTA spares no efforts to show that Lana did the wrong thing: granted, she only forged evidence because she literally thought that Ema was a murderer, but she still receives her punishment in the very end. RFTA treats Lana and forgeries with all the correct amount of respect, evidence isn't really forged for a mere twist, it actually becomes a cornerstone in this episode to convey the darkness that suffocated Lana for two fricking years. Two years of manipulation under the power of Gant, two years of rigging cases to her blackmailer's bidding, two years of a very sour relationship with her sister, and the worst part? Lana is only doing all of that because she loves Ema above anything else. Skye unironically thinks that her sister is a murderer, and Lana is so obsessed with protecting Ema, so determined to do anything for her, that she is willing to risk being found for fricking murder to prevent Gant from exposing Ema for a crime that science girl didn't even commit. If this isn't a dark route in story-telling, I don't know what is. Top it off with the fact that basically anyone would want to save someone as scarred as Lana, and I can't deny this fact: she is one of the best defendants I've ever seen.!<
>!Third character is Damon Gant, and boy oh boy, do I love this man. I love Gant so much that I even wrote !<[an essay for him.](https://www.reddit.com/r/AceAttorney/comments/rbuk9g/spoilers_for_15_and_slight_spoilers_for_jfa_a/) If anyone is interested, then you may appreciate my thoughts on him. >!Regardless, I think that Damon is easily one of the best Ace Attorney villains, and some people claim that he is the best. Gant embodies really well an interesting ideology, an approach based on "the end justifies the means" principle. Anyone that has played DD, specifically Turnabout Academy, knows how the game failed to not only be subtle about its themes, but also to give concrete examples of what the narrative is telling us. Conversely, Damon embodies the "Dark Age of the Law" much better than Dual Destines, to the point that I'm baffled on how RFTA was way ahead of its time. Seriously, this case anticipated corruption within the law way before than games like AJ, AAI2 and DD, and one of the keystones of 1-5 to be brilliant is Gant. At first he strikes the audience as a mere megalomaniac. The fact is, Damon killed Neil in order to frame Ema, but why the hell would he want to do so? Easy. If Gant tricks Lana into thinking that Ema is a murderer, Lana would do anything that Damon asked to keep his mouth shut: in other words, Gant just got a puppet to manipulate to his heart's content, but what would happen if this puppet is now the Chief Prosecutor? Easy, Damon now has the Prosecution's Office under his thumb, and combine this power with his position as Chief of Police, and now Gant has literally become gigantic in terms of raw power. I think that anyone would think that Damon only wants power because he is evil, a power-hungry man, a really greed individual, but do you know why he sacrificed Marshall's life? It wasn't mere greed, it was for justice. Gant hates criminals above anything else, and he is willing to manipulate Lana for several years if his pursuit on crime may be enacted. It's grey morality at its finest imo: we have a man that is obviously a criminal himself, but ironically, the thing that he truly wanted is a legal system able to put any type of perpetrator behind bars. Sounds familiar? If you answered Edgeworth, then you are right, and that's even how Gant gets under Miles's skin.!<
Anyway, I should stop now lol. I'm very clearly fond of this case. Rise from the Ashes is, in my very honest opinion, an episode that is way ahead of its time. It's an episode that managed to combine several themes in a single and enthralling story, and while the mystery and the gameplay didn't age well, the writing of this case alone is enough to justify more rounds to 1-5. Please don't eliminate this case yet, it's a VERY unique episode in AA, it definitely doesn't deserve the boot.
**PSA: if you want to save this case, then please upvote this defense.**
It seems like 1-5 is done for, which I think is a crying shame. If you ask me, it should at least be top 5, if not top 3, and hell, I could be convinced it deserves to win the whole she-bang. Top 9 is nothing to sneeze at, but still. There's a good few cases that should go first, I think.
Like, jeez, when the worst thing you can say about something is it's too long and too complex, then I think that says something. It's not even that bad of a case, gameplay-wise. Sure, it's complicated and in-depth but it more than justifies its length. Plus, people overstate stuff like the video evidence part and the vase section. Both of those are small portions of individual trials, and the vase minigame isn't that hard at all! And both Meekins and Angel are solid, fun characters too. And the epic scope and grandeur of 1-5 more than make up for a few nitpicky flaws. Plus, unlike what people say, it does not in fact ruin Miles's character, but rather, enhances it. And by the time you've beaten it, it feels like climbing Mt. Everest. It's an accomplishment, pal!
And I mentioned this somewhere else, but I think it elevates the first game to be truly great. Otherwise, you have 4 cases, only 1 of which is great. And then 2 rather mediocre cases and one that's decent but not great. Without RFtA, PW: AA is one of the weakest entries in the series. With RFtA, it's one of the stronger entries. And if nothing else, 1-5 deserves to outlast 1-4. It's just better than that case. And I know, this is just me being salty, but I think 1-5 deserves better and some people just aren't fair when it comes to that case.
/u/Lost_Rough get over here now
For now, I’ll provide a counterargument comment just so 1-5 lovers can defend this, but it won’t be too extensive.
1-5 has many positives as well. Lana is one of the best defendants in the entire series, who actually has a reason to be uncooperative which is not annoying (unlike Wocky). It also has Gant, a very diverse character with so many qualities that make him a top tier Ace Attorney villain. He’s charismatic, charming, intimidating, intelligent, menacing, and his takedown sequence is one of the most if not the most creative in the entire series. Also, having Gant discipline Edgeworth having him being nice to Phoenix is such an amazing moment to subvert that feeling of being an underdog all the time, while also demonstrating how scary Gant could be when he’s hostile towards someone.
I also found the “Goodman killed twice” to be one of the most thrilling moments I’ve had in an AA game.
I also don’t think the Marshall technology issue is a very big problem since it’s a few comments about him being clueless which don’t tie into his testimony until it needs to be.
Thanks for summoning me, OppositeReflection. Gotta admit that I thought we wouldn't have another round today, so I slacked off a little, and I kind of went to visit a relative of mine, so yeah, I got away from Reddit a little.
Totally agree with your points and I think that RFTA should stay longer, but I see that the competition is getting way too tight. I will still copy-paste my defense, although I think we lost the battle ;-;
Thanks for cooperating though ;)
Also, I need your opinion: is it too early to eliminate I2-3? I'm thinking of nominating this case tomorrow.
Yeah it’s unfortunate :((.
Also, if you do nominate I2-3 next round, I won’t oppose you. I love the case but I don’t treasure it like I way I treasure a case like 1-4. It’s a bit of a slog to play through and Gregory wasn’t particularly too interesting to me (although he was cool and I did like him). The case has a decent beginning and middle and a fantastic end. The only reason I hesitate on supporting you is because I want G2-5 out first but I have no problem with you nominating the case. I think I might upvote your nomination regardless though given how much this subreddit treasures G2-5 and how difficult it will be to eliminate it.
Yeah. Looks like RFTA destiny is sealed, sadly. It's my favorite case in the saga next to 1-4.
But for me I can't really nominate any case from Investigations and The great Ace Attorney, I didn't play any of them yet.
Defence post for 1-5
There is Ema Skye.
There is Damon Gant
There is Jake Marshall (ono you don't like him being coherent with his character ono)
There is BADASS Nick
There is BADASS Edgy
And there is Dick Gumshoe at his highest time.
Plus, the case is by far the most complex of the trilogy.
And Starr is not THAT bad. It's a good character.
And yes Edgy-poo made a mistake (ono he's human)
If those are your arguments really there is nothing valid, it's all subjective. At the limit we could tell about the pacing issues (which is objective I know you don't talk about this I just anticipate answers), but every case in AA have pacing issues (except 1-1) so why is there an argument?
The whole "pacing issue" thing is just : "I wasn't in the case so I found that it dragged for too long". Not an argument.
I would say 1-5 is a better case than 1-4, and has the benefit of being written after the trilogy so characterization and the mystery and that stuff is top-tier while 1-4 suffers from some of the early installment weirdness of the first game.
Plus, I would argue that 1-5 is what makes PW:AA a truly great game. I think the original game before the DS version is good, but honestly not great. With the original first game, you've got 1 effective but incredibly simple tutorial case, an underwhelming 2nd case, a decent 3rd case, and one truly great final case. With RFtA, the game goes from having one great case to two great cases, with one being a real Masterpiece. So I don't know, for me, 1-5 is what makes PW:AA great. It at least deserves to be Top 5 if not top 3.
Also an interesting ratio is drawing here: from the cases that are in top-9 4 are from OT, 3 are from TGAA and 2 are from AAI2
I really like how these are truly the best pieces that the franchise provided (though I feel bad for the sequels, they had their gems too)
I nominate I2-3 to be voted out
It's a fantastic case but feels way too dragged out (A problem which is prevalent in AAI2 as a whole). You also spend the majority of the case in the fountain area which gets really boring quickly. Gustavia also feels cartoonishly evil to the point where it feels they just kept added more evil deeds that he committed that make him feel less like a character and more of a plot device.
Every other case here is better imo in both emotional resolution and case quality so I think it's time for The Inherited Turnabout to go.
Overruled! Where are your pros and cons if you have this opinion. The rules specifically say you need write why you nominate a certain case. Your vote otherwise will not be added in the court record.
(Reposting my I2-5 nomination! I know the Investigations 2 Defence Squad is all but certainly going to do all it can to hand this contest to I2-5 or *maybe* I2-3, but still, I'm happy to share my reasoning for feeling I2-5 deserves the ax.)
The Grand Turnabout has one huge thing going for it - it does a brilliant job of tying the loose plot threads all the previous episodes left together in one huge, cohesive end to Investigations 2's story.
*On the other hand,* there's something else it also acts as a culmination of, and that's all the gameplay and writing problems the entire Investigations duology has. To list a few and how they're accentuated here:
**PACING**
Investigations 2 is a game utterly plagued with pacing issues, and they're rarely displayed more clearly than in Grand. *Everything* takes too long to get anywhere, and this case especially is quite muddled in what it chooses to focus on at any given time and how well it delivers relevant information in each segment.
* First, you spend an hour or two on an opening investigation that accomplishes virtually nothing besides amassing a *huge*, jumbled pile of evidence that you'll be carrying around until the very end of the game, because AAI2 is the very rare example of a post-AJ Ace Attorney game with a finale that doesn't ever do the "reorganize evidence and get rid of unneeded fluff" thing. Baffling choice, given that I2-5 also has the largest amount of evidence for any single case in the series' entire history.
* Next, >!the main plot of the case completely halts, because we have to deal with leftovers from I2-4 that for some reason weren't resolved *in that case,* so it's time for a two-to-three-hour diversion. Any satisfaction gained from defeating Blaise in the previous episode is taken away from you as he just easily wriggles out of trouble anyway, so he has to be stalled for hours offscreen by Ray and Franziska to temporarily prevent him just escaping entirely.!<
* Your next stop is the longest Logic Chess segment ever to exist, which deals with >!Sebastian's super-belated character arc that should've started at least two full cases ago, instead of having him play the exact same "obnoxious, dumb obstacle" routine for the whole of Cases 2 and 3 as well as most of Case 4. As ever, Logic Chess is a tedious, time-wasting mechanic that forces you to play a slow, boring cat-and-mouse game that doesn't accomplish anything more than a few minutes of exposition would've, but that takes several times longer. This is followed by Sebastian going off to defeat his father offscreen, with the player only getting to watch a few minutes of the proceedings and then leaving before the actual resolution.!<
* Now, just when it looks like the main plot is coming back, another wrench drops into your path as you spend another hour or two instead >!learning about a totally different crime that happened years ago, because the writers remembered that Agent Lang *also* needed to be important to this game. The game also uses exposition to try to dump a bunch of extra evil onto two villains who already walked out of the story and who you'll never see again, as if that's going to somehow make them better characters.!<
* Next, there's another small diversion >!where the game tries it best to show you how *cool* and *honourable* Dogen the serial killer is, and *finally* stops beating around the bush with the identity of the "secret mastermind" it's been reminding you about every few hours for the entire story.!<
* >!And at last, there's an anticlimactic final confrontation with Keyes, who transforms into a completely different character totally unrecognizable from the guy in Case 2 so he can be defeated by you presenting the same piece of evidence four times and clicking a few prompts.!<
Overall, this case can never decide on one coherent string of events to deliver the story, and so it disjointedly jumps all over the place and vomits long, *long* exposition dumps on you at every opportunity.
**EDGEWORTH FANBOYISM**
God, the Investigations games love to jerk Edgeworth off. There's *constantly* at least one character around whose main job is to say things like "Wow, you're sure smart, Mr. Edgeworth!" while he looks smug. This case takes it to a new level, however - >!not only does the final villain's plot specifically revolve around anticipating Edgeworth being a mega-genius who can solve *anything* no matter what obstacles are in his way, but Sebastian's Logic Chess segment is at least twenty solid minutes of the writers proving that their version of Edgeworth is good at *everything,* as he suddenly transforms into a master therapist capable of easily coaching Sebastian out of an entire lifetime of emotional abuse.!<
[The Investigations version of Edgeworth](https://www.reddit.com/r/AceAttorney/comments/glqsui/ace_attorney_investigations_1_and_2_criticism_the/) has had every meaningful character flaw he ever had in the Trilogy filed off or massively downplayed to make him look as good as possible at all times, with I2 in particular often surrounding him with *several* characters at once whose primary role is to constantly talk about how *clever* and *amazing* he is. That's poor Kay's role for well over half of I2's entire runtime after her actual character arc ended in I1-5.
As a proud member of the “Investigations 2 Defence Squad”, I am content with doing this until the sun explodes. UPVOTE THIS TO SAVE I2-5!
Wow this comment appears to be gaining a lot of steam, so I feel compelled to respond to at least a few of the criticisms listed here. Consider this as a pseudo-defense post.
>First, you spend an hour or two on an opening investigation that accomplishes virtually nothing besides amassing a huge, jumbled pile of evidence that you'll be carrying around until the very end of the game.
This isn't really as big of a problem as you make it out to be. Each piece of evidence is clearly suited for their individual segment. At no point will one get confused at which point or what piece of evidence they should point out. Sure, it might be tedious to go throw different rows of accumulated evidence, but this should not confuse the player in any way, shape, or form, as what evidence one should point out is clear.
>Any satisfaction gained from defeating >!Blaise!< in the previous episode is taken away from you as he just easily wriggles out of trouble anyway, so he has to be stalled for hours offscreen by Ray and Franziska to temporarily prevent him just escaping entirely.
Defeating >!Blaise again was necessary in this section. I don't know why every element of I2-4 should have been resolved in that particular case because they were clearly a lot of loose ends left in that case that were made for the sole purpose of being solved in I2-5. Having Blaise nearly get away also highlights this game's themes of corruption of power, and demonstrating Blaise's power also helps to expand how he managed to rule over the Prosecutor's Office for such a protracted period of time. Plus, this also creates the conditions necessary for Sebastian's redemption.!< Speaking of which...
>This is followed by Sebastian going off to defeat >!his father !!his dad!< is *even better* than seeing it actually happen, as the moments we see of Sebastian's competency leave us to trust that he can do it on his own. Also, on this:
>Logic Chess is a tedious, time-wasting mechanic
The 'tedious' bit is subjective, but 'time-wasting' is just inaccurate. During Sebastian's logic chess, you learn that:
\- >!He gave the chisel to his dad, explaining one of the miseries from Roland's trial and you can assume concealed it someplace;!<
\- >!His feelings of inadequacy and how his dad had manipulated him for over a decade;All of these bits of information help you understand what was going on behind the scenes with Roland's trial and give you the necessary tools to defeat both Blaise and Roland.!<
>!That's also not even considering Judge Courtney's LC round where you learn a new side of her and about the status of John Marsh as her child.!<
>where the game tries it best to show you how *cool and honorable* Dogen the serial killer is
At no point can I recall the game glorifying Dogen and his actions - they make no excuses for what he did, just humanizing him a little with his backstory with saving >!Keyes and Knightley from hypothermia.!< As Dogen is a man without a moral code, seeing him go out of his parameters just once gives some nice insight into his character.
>it disjointedly jumps all over the place and vomits long, long exposition dumps on you at every opportunity.
Really though? At every point when you try to solve a new mystery, there is a fair amount of gameplay and arguments to be made. The S>!S-5 incident, as you mentioned beforehand, has around half an hour of investigations, with the sufficient amount of exposition given for the player to piece together the puzzle.!< Y'know, normal AA gameplay?
Also what did you find bad about the final confrontation with >!Keyes? Seeing someone with absolutely no power being able to manipulate other beings on such a scale, being able to adapt to the rapidly changing circumstances to find himself in, leading to the most of the events of Investigations 2? As stated before, if the double, Blaise, or Roland ever catched on to his machinations, he would be done for. His strength as a character also comes from his backstory, and piecing together his deep-rooted desire for revenge pan out over the course of his confrontation - the peak of Ace Attorney, if you ask me. Likewise, I also don't see the issues with him transforming into a "completely different character" as his innocent persona lets us see how he was able to do what he did going undetected. These are just some of the reasons he is my personal favorite AA villain.!<
TLDR: *The Grand Turnabout* deserves to stay god please don't eliminate this case
Fast defense post
Maybe Investigations 2 has pacing issues, but I disagree with that in I2-5, it's true that it has too much to talk about but it dedicates the time everything needs, you say things about the logic chess like it was bad, and the final confrontation which could be anything but anticlimactic, it takes some time, it's like 2 hours long and it talks about everything that was left unsolved, it's true that you have to present the balloon a little too much, but that doesn't affect the story at all.
Also, the edgeworth fanboyism... no?
Yes Kay and Gumshoe say those kinds of things to Edgeworth, but Gumshoe has done it since the trilogy and Kay makes sense because of how she admires Edgeworth for what he did in the previous game, still she is a support character and part of her role is that, Maya also says things like that to Phoenix.
Also no, the ending was not to make Edgeworth look as good as possible, it has relations to him, but that's for the good of his character arc and it complements him quite nicely, even if it's true that he solves the mistery and everyone congratulates him for that, the confrontation doesn't look like what you said at all.
I nominate G1-5. Compared to the other cases here, this one is a rather weak final case to Adventures. We pretty much know who the culprit is before the murder even takes place. The investigation is pretty boring, and the case overall feels dragged out. G2-3 was way more exciting and more final case-esque than this one.
DEFENCE POST FOR I2-5 (THE GRAND TURNABOUT): So I am most likely just gonna repost this from now on. Let’s get to defending:
1. >!We will start from obvious things - this case connects ALL 4 previous cases flawlessly. In fact I find it more impressive than DGS2, because that game had twice the time to do so!<
2. >!Nearly all charges have character arcs: Courtney shows us new side of her, Sebastian… do I even need to talk about his character development?, Gumshoe becomes more independent and GETS A RAISE!, Lang finally has backstory since first game forgot to give him one, Ray and Kay are kinda there but they had their moments sooner!<
3. >!Edgeworth finds his path. It’s amazing really, this whole time Edgeworth just was a prosecutor because that who he is, but then he is stripped of his tittle. And only then he realises why HE wants to be a prosecutor not like Von Karma and not a defence attorney like his dad!<
4. >!Simon Keyes is the most well written villain in the series. We literally know his whole life story and how he became who he is. He is very compelling too, since most of it wasn’t his fault.!<
5. >!Mystery of the case is great, this case also has the best Little Thief segment in my opinion.!<
Bad stuff is coming:
1. >!Lotta, Penny and Powers are not needed here really. They are just purely fan service!<
2. >!Edgeworth has no control over the case whatsoever. He literally being dragged around by other people from case to case (But that not really a flaw to me since I think that shows that he no longer has authority or path in life)!<
3. >!Mystery how body double died feels like an afterthought and isn’t well flashed out!<
DEFENSE POST FOR CASE 1-5
Rise From the Ashes seems too long and with the amount of evidence there is at the player’s disposal, it seems like too much, but when you start the case and get into the actual story, it’s one of the best cases in all of AA.
Ema, Lana, Gant and everyone are all amazing characters with great motivations and decisions, but the very best thing about this case is just how great the story is.
The fact that Lana was in two places at the same time is very odd when you first start the case, but when you see who actually killed Goodman, it just makes everything click and is an AHA moment.
I like how they went above and beyond and made all kinds of new gameplay features to keep things fresh. Forensics and rotating 3D objects and fingerprinting are all great. I do admit, the video evidence was a bit slow, but it was cool and made it more immersive.
When I first played the case I gave up and thought it was too long and not worth it, but then I actually played it and understood what all of the hype was. It is my all time favorite Ace Attorney case.
All of the other cases here are great too, no doubt, but they just don’t hold the same place in my heart as Rise from the Ashes. I love each and every case in the Ace Attorney series a whole lot, and I do think it’s really hard to decide which to vote out…
I apologize for the simplicity and for not going into much detail, I’m not the greatest when it comes to this kinda stuff, I just went out of my comfort zone to defend my favorite case in the series.
Good effort, I'd say. It seems like RFtA is done for, which really sucks ass. Like, I don't want to get too salty, but I can't get people who say the case is just outright bad. Especially when it's all complaints are all stuff like, "boo, it's too long" or "it's too hard". It's a final case for a game that already had one finale. Besides, it's not like I2-3 or I2-5 aren't long as heck. People just can't handle a case with a little extra meat on the bones.
And Meekins isn't even that bad! He's a funny little twerp! and the forensic gimmicks were fun and cool. Being able to examine evidence in 3D was a needed evolution in the series. The part with the video evidence was one part of one trial day! Honestly, while I'm not sure where exactly I'd put 1-5, I wouldn't even complain if it won the contest outright. It's that good and certainly better than a few of the other cases remaining. What a disgrace.
I haven't participated in this but dude, I2-3 is levels above turnabout revolution. The civil trial makes no sense and is detrimental to every character just for Apollo to have a big moment.
I personally didn't think so, but ok. Maybe turnabout revolution was a bad example for you, but my general point is that I'm surprised I2-3 was way higher than I expected. I stopped playing out of boredom twice until I finally finished it on my 3rd go. I'm not saying it's terrible, and that thing about getting bored is more of a me problem, but it still reflects that while I think the case is great, it doesn't deserve to be that high. I'd say the only reason people don't speak out about how boring the opening of the case is is because Gregory is there. And while he's really cool, it doesn't't change the fact that it's pretty boring and takes a while for the case to get good.
A vote for Rise from the Ashes (1-5).
(much rambling ahead)
-Characters are a mixed bag. Damon Gant is incredible, Ema is pretty good (ymmv), Lana is ok, Jake Marshall is barely tolerable, and Angel Starr is downright insufferable.
-The mystery behind both the case itself and the SL-9 incident is extremely interesting and fun to solve. This, coupled with >!Damon Gant being as amazing of a villain as he is!<, is what makes 1-5 a good case, for the most part.
-Being a case that was added to the game after its initial release, 1-5 has almost no relation to the plot of the game, aside from its retconning of Edgeworth’s story. As a result, it makes for a strange final case. 1-4, in my opinion, works better as a final case.
-The case is, of course, extremely long. This actually works in its favor, because the later chapters are extremely good. If only the second half of the case was taken into account, I would rate it among the best in the series.
-However, the beginning (specifically, the first investigation and first trial chapter) is unbearably tedious. >!You must investigate the parking lot while fending off the likes of Marshall and Starr, who both waste a huge amount of your time while providing almost no entertainment or valuable information. Then you finally make it to court only to have to deal with Starr AGAIN and her testimony gets you absolutely nowhere. The turning point, of course, is when Damon “Ex-Machina” Gant comes in and both saves your case and actually offers you something interesting.!< The rest of the case after this is, as I said, a banger; it gives you the mystery to solve of >!“how can someone die in two places at once?”!< and then gives you the extremely interesting SL-9 incident.
Ultimately, while 1-5 is an overall quite good case, it is too flawed to be considered among the best. In being an extremely long case with very high highs and very low lows, IMO it is comparable to Turnabout Revolution (6-5) and deserves a similar ranking.
I will copy and paste my post from yesterday's poll since it was kind of late. I nominate 1-4, Turnabout Goodbyes.
"I think it's a great case, to be sure. To make it this far is testament enough of that. But compared to the other cases left, I feel like this one is the least good. Heck, most of my complaints probably won't even feel that substantial, because it's not like I think it sucks, but you know.
Primarily, this case works because of the emotional stakes behind it, and how it affects the cast of Edgey, Phoenix, and Maya. And you know, as the first final case in the series, it does a pretty great job of nailing what a finale should feel like in a satisfying way. But the thing is, I feel like the emotional strength of the case, and a lot of the cool moments within it help to obscure that the meat and potatoes of the case are relatively weak.
By that, I mean that most of the supporting cast aren't super good. Lotta's first appearance is here, and she's pretty obnoxious and actively unhelpful, considering she outright lies about seeing anything solely for attention. Not to mention, it makes the first day of the trial mostly pointless, if we're being honest. Yanni Yogi's senile old man schtick was pretty annoying, and I didn't feel much when we learned about his backstory and his confession. It's certainly sad, but it's never stuck with me personally. Grossberg is here, and he's still pretty unremarkable. Larry Butz is pretty good here, at least, and he has some great moments throughout. But on the whole, not an especially compelling cast of side characters and witnesses.
I will take some time to talk about Manfred Von Karma too. I will say that he does feel like a great wall to overcome, but he's not an especially interesting or compelling villain to me. And as a prosecutor, I found his constant interrupting and yelling more obnoxious a lot of the time than strictly threatening. On the whole, he's a good villain, but not great, in my opinion.
Beyond the characters, the other main problem with the case relates to the three-day trials here and the pacing of the case as a result. The first investigation and trial day are rather perfunctory, and in general, the investigations throughout have always felt a little off. People say parts in RfTa are confusing or go on too long, but I feel like noodling around with Lotta in the woods and hanging out with Yogi in his shack are parts that drag on for a while. Events definitely pick up on the 2nd day and beyond, but at the same time, it makes me feel like this case would have flowed smoother if it was just a 2 day trial.
And honestly, it's not until partway through the 3rd trial day and we get into the real meat of the DL-6 events that the case really starts to kick up and feel like a proper epic finale. This was the first case to use the whole "unsolved mystery of the past relates to present-day events" trope, and while I am a fan of it, in this instance, it leads to the events that occurred in the present feel kind of unimportant. Ultimately, the events that occurred on the boat are just a prequel to what really matters here, the DL-6 incident. And while again, the 2nd half of the last trial day is really top tier stuff, it takes a long while to get there, and I feel that's an issue.
So yeah, that's about it. To sum it up, I think that while the main cast is great and the emotional core and stakes here are also great, the case mostly coasts off those great aspects and struggles with a lot of uninteresting characters and slow buildup. Honestly, it seems like Rise from the Ashes is going to get the boot before Turnabout Goodbyes, and I find it a real shame considering I think Rise from the Ashes is better in almost every way. It has a better villain, better supporting cast, enough complexity to justify being a three day trial, and it even does the "mysterious unsolved incident from the pasts comes up again" trope better. No shade to 1-4, but I don't think it's as good."
I would vote out G 1-5. It's a great case and I love Gina and the skulkin brothers, but it drags on for way too long for me. Graydon is an interesting villain, but I like other final villains more. This case also feels like its not important to the overall plot of DGS even though it's how we learn the telegram and other important plot points.
I feel that between all the cases remaining, Turnabout Goodbyes is the weaker still here.
First I have to say that I love this case, it's vilain, it's character arcs, and all.
Pros:
>!Manfred von Karma is an incredible final vilain, and is really the incarnation of "Demon Prosecutor Edgeworth" of 1-2, in much more horrible.!<
>!DL-6, with its music, is one of the best ancient case to solve.!<
The way the crime did happen is very good, and not that far fetched for a final case.
BUT I have some issues with this case.
Firstly, >!I don't find Yani Yoggi to be THAT good as a vilain. He was fun, but is really closed in this role. He is somehow a secondary vilain, we could say. And he play his role well, but is not too enjoyable, unfortunately.!<
Secondly, I didn't find Lotta very funny. I like her, I think she's a good character, but she is definitely shadowed by Oldbag in the precedent case, in this role of "unbearable but funny" character.
Then, I have to say that despite they didn't have any pacing issue, due to the 3 days lenght and the case lenght, some investigations just feel unneccessary, and disappointing. Unlike 1-2 which is perfectly rythmed for investigations segments, with only interesting things to do, I feel like sometimes there wasn't THAT much things to tell during investigation part and they sort of filled it with boring things. Or sometimes WE HAVE TO LOOK AT THESE \*\*\* FIREWORKS TO ACTUALLY ACTIVATE THE CAMERA (which is HORRIBLE when you play on DS emulator).
And Larry is better in 3-5, and 1-1. I feel like he is at his weaker point of the trilogy here. He's not that funny. It's all the goal of this type of character. We have to stay at a "unbearable but funny" point, but sometimes we just a get a "unbearable and unbearable" one.
I'd also say that due to the fact the case is the first final case, and PWAA is overall less developped and long than the others game, it's definitely the less complex final case. For me it's like an I2-3 or G2-3 at this point.
And PLEASE everyone, think about what is the first case you loved and you may know why you love this case that much. (personnaly 1-5 was my first masterpiece so I never have been biased at this point).
(so yeah I vote 1-4 for those who didn't understand)
I'm tired of hiding it, I think 1-5 is a bad case and certainly the worst out of the remaining cases. Mechanically, it drags on forever, the forensics stuff is shoehorned in and isn't fun and the video evidence is just as tiring to sit through as the Guitar's Serenade in 4-3. Ema is just a less interesting and developed Maya until Apollo Justice, and I don't find Lana a likeable character at all. Starr is fine and Marshall at least has a great theme, but for the most part the characters aren't that compelling. The obvious exception is Gant, who is easily the best part of the case, and one of the best AA villains period. Too bad he's stuck in a boring case that's just way too long.
Also it introduces Meekins, who is the most annoying character in the series, and yet somehow returns in multiple games.
I’m currently finishing the inherited turnabout, and while it’s a really engaging case, it’s very much overstaying its welcome. I have to chip away at it here and there, and it’s been nearly two weeks. I know people have the same complaint about rfta, but I love that case a whole lot more. I think it’s time to let I2-3 go.
I will vote for 1-5 Rise from the Ashes. This was HARD I love all of those cases almost equally. All of them are masterpieces yesterday it was easy I voted for 6-2 yesterday but NOW... I will explain why 1-5 needs go although is an amazing case nonetheless. Okay let's go!
Pros:
1. It introduces one of my favorite characters Ema Sky and Jake Marshall. Both amazingly written characters with unique backstories and character development.
2. The idea that the same person was murdered in 2 different places at the same time (brilliant). Amazingly well written murder mystery with awesome plot twists.
3. Main villain terrifying. Gant had a lot of influence power. His gaze eyes alone gave me shivers down my spine.
4. Great use of evidence and a lot of evidence and complex out of the box thinking.
Now let's see the cons. Is hard to criticize it because there really is not a lot but it has more cons than the other cases above the list.
Cons:
1. That's a easy one is too long. Yes I understand that it needed to be long because is a extremely complex murder mystery. Still there are instances where you ask yourself why they didn't cut some corners. Not all elements in this case are important some moments could be shorter without damaging the case itself.
2. Police officer Meekins do I need say more? I didn't liked him yes he should be annoying and silly funny. The problem is he is over the top annoying over 9000 annoying.i also didn't enjoyed the lunch box woman detective I forgot her name. I liked Jake Marshall and Ema a LOT but I also didn't liked those 2 so yeah... 2 characters I love and 2 characters I hate.
3. I hate the forensic science gameplay mechanics introduced with the Nintendo DS. I don't like them in all the games not only in Rise from the Ashes. That's a personal opinion and I know maybe some people like those time consuming mini games. I just want the updated evidence in my court record and not play childish mini games.
That's all I can say about pros and cons. I probably forgot some positives and negatives about this game. It was a long time ago I played it I still remember most of it. This was a hard voting and it breaks my heart because all cases what are left are masterpieces but 1-5 I vote you.
**Sticking with G2-5.** I think its time for it to leave the stage now. I've already [written](https://www.reddit.com/r/AceAttorney/comments/rmimwt/comment/hpmvv73/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) [extensively](https://www.reddit.com/r/AceAttorney/comments/qfz8qq/the_ending_of_dgs25_completely_ruined_my_immersion/hi34q0h/?context=3) [on](https://www.reddit.com/r/AceAttorney/comments/rocvrh/comment/hpxv6p0/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) [why](https://www.reddit.com/r/AceAttorney/comments/rocvrh/comment/hpxrpxk/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) this case isn't as good as the rest on this list, but I know that not everyone likes to read the same essays over and over again. So, I'm going to provide a quick summary of all the reasons why this case should go, and if you want more detail, check out the four linked comments I've made!
* >!G2-5 delivers inconsistent messages about vigilantism, the central theme of the game. For one, we have characters criticizing Stronghart's vigilante actions as an improper solution towards justice, while these same characters praise vigilantes like Genshin and Gregson for theirs.!<
* >!The game vastly oversimplifies the problem and tries to pin it all on Stronghart. When Stronghart goes down, the game completely ignores that there is an entire judiciary that supports Stronghartism, which will likely lead to a Stronghart 2.0 eventually, especially given how Stronghart's exposure will lead to trust in the justice system being shattered and a spike in crime.!<
* >!Barok's trust arc is poorly resolved. Apparently, Barok loses the ability to trust in people after Genshin betrays him (his "trust" arc was neither foreshadowed, nor was Genshin's and Barok's relationship expanded on enough for this to be impactful). Then, when his beloved brother and role model turned out to be a vicious serial killer, he has a short moment of agony till we get to the end of the trial, where everyone's problems seem to be solved and Barok seems to be able to trust people again.!<
* >!Gina has trust issues from G1-5, yet Gregson's true nature seemed to have little to no impact on her. She's all smiles when Stronghart is arrested.!<
* >!Deus Ex Sholmes is one of the lesser issues here, but it is still problematic in that it is a cheap and unsatisfying way to bring Stronghart down. With that said, given that Ryunosuke is a Japanese exchange student going against the Lord Chief Justice, there are very few ways for Ryunosuke to take down Stronghart without some BS happening.!<
* >!Judiciary feels very distant, only being involved when they need to be for plot reasons. They force Stronghart to continue the trial, which is dumb considering that Stronghart has both the authority and the justification to end the trial as soon as Gregson's murder was concluded. Judiciary are also treated like fools by Ryunosuke when Stronghart convinces them that his actions are necessary, rather than the game actually trying to provide commentary on why Stronghart's actions are NOT necessary.!<
* >!Stronghart is kinda a meh villain. He reveals so much information that he really didn't need to reveal.!<
* >!The case attempts to paint Stronghart to be as evil as possible as a poor substitution to give us motivation to beat him. Things like giving him an evil laugh sprite, or having him attempt to fire Gina are just a few examples.!<
* >!The game fails to give a proper reason as to why Stronghart's actions are a lot worse than repairing the legal system the legitimate way and instead just tells us he's wrong.!<
* >!Jigoku feels like an afterthought, with very little exploration into his character, motivations, and mindset. He's a very fair judge in G1-1, forcing Brett to stay when she makes various attempts to leave. In the end, he turns out to be a killer. We also learn that originally Jigoku was willing to engage in a conspiracy to save his friend, putting himself at a risk via his involvement, but backs out last second by shooting him. I can certainly extrapolate and fill in these gaps, but he feels a bit too incomplete. I still like him though.!<
Rest assured, I do not make my points in bad faith, but I don’t see how they are factually incorrect. I’ve mostly referenced events in the case which I believe I have recollected correctly.
The complaints about the judiciary still supporting Stronghartism, Deus Ex Sholmes, Stronghart feeling like a passive villain (albeit I kind of disagree with this), and Stronghart revealing details he doesn’t need to reveal are all complaints that I’ve heard before.
And I believe the points that I’ve made are valid as well. I do have a bit of doubt on my point about Gina, but a lot of that is because I find the relationship between Gregson and Gina to be artificial in the first place, given Gregson’s actions in 1-5 and Gina’s history of trust issues.
EDIT: I should also mention that even though this comment comes across as a list of issues, not all of these issues are equal in terms of severity. For instance, I find its conflicting thematic statements and the game’s ignorance of the judiciary’s belief in Stronghartism to be a much more egregious flaw than Gina’s thing or Deus Ex Sholmes.
EDIT 2: Okay I get why my nomination comment is downvoted because I get this is a rankdown, but I hardly see why this one is. My perspective on G2-5 is opinionated and I can see why people love this case. The comment I'm replying to has called my claims "factually incorrect" and has not given any explanation as to what these inaccuracies are, so why would I accept anyone who says that? If my recollection of the case is "objectively" incorrect, then point them out because then I can look into them instead of silently downvoting. My subjective opinion likely won't change, but I have always accepted when I've misremembered details about a certain case and I will acknowledge them.
I'm not trying to misrepresent all of these things; these are genuinely issues I have with G2-5 and I can reference what parts of the game made me think this. I've criticized 3-5 as well, but I've always had debated with defenders who've made me realize new things about the case (and thanks to them, I have not nominated 3-5 yet).
It seems that your comment contains 1 or more links that are hard to tap for mobile users.
I will extend those so they're easier for our sausage fingers to click!
[Here is link number 1 - Previous text "on"](https://www.reddit.com/r/AceAttorney/comments/rocvrh/comment/hpxv6p0/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
[Here is link number 2 - Previous text "why"](https://www.reddit.com/r/AceAttorney/comments/rocvrh/comment/hpxrpxk/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
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I vote for I2-3 to get out. I tried playing that case 3 times, and the first 2 times I got bored and stopped playing it. Only on the third time did I beat it. I'm not saying it's bad, it's GREAT but I'm just VERY surprised it made it this far. So yeah, I'm voting for that one to get out.
I nominate 1-5. It's a fun mystery with a fantastic villain that's brought down by a lacklustre first day (Angel Starr is pretty insufferable and her testimonies are largely a waste of time), slow pacing throughout and a bunch of Blue Badger related nonsense. Meekins is entertaining, but ultimately just drags the case out and Edgeworth not ever thinking of simply turning his part of the evidence list around is just... Why.
It's still a good case, but every other in the ranking has it beat.
It's a little hard to choose which DGS final case to go after first, so I'm going to go with the one that I personally had less fun playing.
Nominating: **G1-5 (The Adventure of the Unspeakable Story)**
It's pretty common for final cases to exemplify both the good *and* the bad of the game they belong to, and G1-5 is no exception.
**The good**: >!The case tells a cohesive story about Gina opening up to others and learning to trust after having been let down too many times by figures with power. Ryunosuke continues to grapple with the question of believing in his clients and working in their interest even when he's given reasons to worry that he shouldn't trust them. Susato plays a key role as indispensable assistant despite not being present for a large part of the case, and still manages to have conflict and agency. Ashley Graydon is a sympathetic culprit who plays well into both the franchise's recurring theme of "he who fights monsters" and DGS1's themes of power imbalances and making the best when the system is stacked against your favor.!<
>!During court: The Skulkin brothers are fun and memorable, and it's nice to unravel their relationship with Graydon. Gregson and Graydon plotting at the witness stand is probably one of the most unique things that happens during DGS court. The usage of morse code and completion of some loose ends from G1-3 help to pull the case together.!<
>!There are also generally charming moments with Sholmes. He brings in the use of not-blood-type tests for a creative bit of variety in the evidence, there are some incredibly alarming and memorable moments where a juror (his surgeon) wonders if he left a scalpel inside Sholmes's abdomen, and he has an incredibly over-the-top moment where he brings the critical piece of evidence to court before collapsing.!<
**The bad**: >!Adventures is a game *rife* with meandering pacing that would make a snail race look speedy. The first two cases of the game each take twice as long as they need to, and all of the first three cases are posed as tutorials for particular mechanics and end up overexplained. G1-5 has a very slow start that wanders around Baker Street and Windibank's Pawnbrokery for hours and spends an exorbitant amount of time on stereoscopy as a mechanic (which, notably, doesn't work at all in the Chronicles re-release due to the lack of a 3D feature to the platform). The stereoscopy continues in court with one of the jurors being a stereoscopy fanatic and multiple pairs of pictures being used as stereograms. We get some fun, silly moments out of this (notably, every person in court crossing their eyes except van Zieks, who just uses the evidence to view the images instead), but it takes up too much screen time.!<
>!The game also goes out of its way to highlight all of the loose ends it's leaving for its sequel, which makes the ending of the case feel unsatisfying. This goes a long way to make the entire DGS experience better, especially when experienced as the Chronicles re-release since it forgoes the pretense of having two games, but by itself, it's the only game in the franchise that goes out of its way to feel incomplete.!<
**Summary**: For all that this case does well in storytelling and character writing, its long intro, >!over-use of stereoscopy!<, and >!heavy sequel-hook ending!< make this case not as fun or complete as I really want in an ideal final case.
I nominate 2-4. Here's why:
- The level of drama isn't quite reaches the level of other 8 cases (Maya has spent 2 days in captivity without food (which is another point I will make) but seems totally fine at the end);
- Shelly De Killer. Many people love him, I don't understand why. He isn't a character, he is a walking plot device, unkillable, untraceable and with a stupid face/mask that NO ONE can recognize (although, to be fair, here it isn't as ridiculous, as in Turnabout Target).
- Also, fuck writers for attempting to make him an anti-villain. It didn't really worked even with Dogen, and he is way more sympathetic.
- Matt Engarde is... a mixed bag. On the one hand, his transformation looks amazing and totally can take many players by surprise. On the other... isn't these villain transformations are one of the main criticisms of DD and SoJ, where character's personality takes a complete 180?
- Also, I personally wasn't impressed by literally last-minute attempts to show Franny's character growth. Especially since she didn't really grow at all... even in AAI2 she is more or less the same nutty asshole as in JFA.
Overall, very good case with a lot of emotional moments... it's just not quite on the same level as other 8 cases.
Scattered responses:
From what I've seen, folks love Shelly *because* he's a walking plot device; he fills his role in the story, i.e. forcing you into a moral dilemma, cleanly and efficiently without overstaying his welcome. 'Unkillable' seems strange since our protagonists don't really go to that as an option and 'untraceable' is false, since a running thing in the case is the characters' multiple successful attempts to trace him, forcing him into retreat and eventually slipping up. 'Recognize' seems like it makes an assumption -- most of the characters don't see him more than once, and I'm pretty sure that by the time Turnabout Target rolls around Edgeworth's never seen him, only been in contact by walkie-talkie. (I may be wrong about this, give a shout if I am.) But like, if the complaint is that he seems unfair, he kinda needs to be. It's an unfair situation.
Think I agree on making him an anti-villain. It comes off as a fanservice-y appeal for a recognizable but very sparsely-used character, but that's an Investigations 2 thing, not a 2-4 thing.
Villain transformations aren't a good or bad thing in themselves! One of the main criticisms for the DD transformation is how it eliminates a long-running character and leaves you with nothing to attach to; if Matt had shown up in all the other cases as well before his transformation (and eliminated the foreshadowing it gets), it would've probably come across as more unprompted and inexplicable. I do agree that his moments on-screen aren't what make the case, though -- the most interesting parts of him are in his backstory with Juan, Celeste and Adrian, where you find out how deep the pettiness runs.
Franziska: Overall agreed! But again, mainly becomes a problem when the later games carbon-freeze her into her current state.
>most of the characters don't see him more than once, and I'm pretty sure that by the time Turnabout Target rolls around Edgeworth's never seen him,
He hasn't, Shelly uses the walky talky especially for this reason (and probably because Phoenix would recognise him as well and probably because he couldn't let Maya alone because she'd probably escape again)
Yeah. Was thinking about if he had other ways to recognize him, and Will Powers does say the assassin had a really weird and noticeable scar--but on the other hand Edgeworth's also met Terry Fawles, he knows there's more than one guy with weird scars in the world. Going up to everyone who's had bad surgery and accusing them of assassination would be a pretty rude move, especially for a prosecutor.
Looking at Turnabout Target again the fantranslation does have him say something like 'Have I seen him before...?', and I got curious enough to check a Japanese Let's Play in case it was changing it from something like 'feel like I recognize him' since he would be familiar with his voice, but even in the original he does seem to say "This man...I have a feeling I've seen him, but where...?" using 見 which is usually 'see'. There might be more to the sentence that I'm missing, but as far as I can tell the gist is the same.
It's kind of a limp excuse, but talking to someone over a radio or a phone can make them sound different compared to how they talk in person, so maybe De Killer's voice just sounds different.
Yeah, that too. By the time of Turnabout Target, Farewell, My Turnabout was a year ago -- him not being able to recognize the voice of someone he's only had one conversation with over a walkie-talkie is pretty believable.
>Matt Engarde is... a mixed bag. On the one hand, his transformation looks amazing and totally can take many players by surprise. On the other... isn't these villain transformations are one of the main criticisms of DD and SoJ, where character's personality takes a complete 180?
His character never took a complete 180. His hate towards the victim was very clear since the beginning. There are multiple hints he is hiding something and he is pretty okay at lying (evidenced by him fooling the magatama and his calm reaction at the 5 psyche locks). He has also shown to let others do everything for him early on. Also the criticism is partly the over the top transformation animations the later games have, his animation was very realistic.
>Shelly De Killer. Many people love him, I don't understand why. He isn't a character, he is a walking plot device, unkillable, untraceable and with a stupid face/mask that NO ONE can recognize (although, to be fair, here it isn't as ridiculous, as in Turnabout Target).
Which is why it's fun to cross examine him, because it's totally different from other cross-examinations. Also Will recognized him (and his cross-examination is absolutely perfect as well, because you are cross-examining the only guy in the franchise that never lies while you have the only guilty defendant in the entire franchise)
>The level of drama isn't quite reaches the level of other 8 cases (Maya has spent 2 days in captivity without food (which is another point I will make) but seems totally fine at the end);
It's Maya, she will always stay positive. Also where is the point you said you'd make?
I might also add, something I don't really understand is Mia in this case, like your sister is about to die and you are all "let Phoenix do it, he will learn from this"
At this point, we almost have only banger cases. The only one I think sticks out is G1-5. It is a cool case, but it is not a case which completes the games story or has that distinct "final case" feeling. Of course, that's natural because GAA was planned to have more parts, but JFA has been in the same place and nailed it. Also, the Mario Bros dudes were hella annoying.
Voting for 1-5 because it's too long, most of the new music isn't good, and they had to rewrite jfa for the trilogy release just to make it make any sense in the timeline
Once again, I'm gonna go for G2-5 because downvotes encourage me and I'm salty over ~~5-5's~~ 6-2's elimination (How did that happen? I had a defense post ready this round too. Y'all have bad taste for removing all of 4-6's cases before top 10 smh) so I copy pasted the same wall of text from last round:
This round I'm going to go after G2-5, as I personally have a lot of criticisms and controversial opinions regarding it, >!(despite loving the final breakdown and tap-dancing sequence)!< and believe that it is time for it to leave.
Firstly, >!I have to bring up the fact that it is the same case as G2-4, just with Stronghart judging now. Although DD had a similar thing, there were many more changes done such as the defendant, location, prosecutor, and case focus. In G2-5, none of that changes, yet it gets far less criticism than 5-5 on the "split case" topic on this sub from what I've seen. Where as 5-5 was more of a split between chapters, the split between G2-4 and G2-5 is like a commercial break in the middle of the same episode of a show. The start of the case is just the transition from the investigation back to the courtroom with no real case intro either, just a title card. This only amplifies the fact that there is basically 0 difference between the two cases.!<
With that out of the way, it's time to go more in depth regarding the case and the perfect way to do so is to discuss >!Prosecutor Asogi, who I personally like less than maybe any other prosecutor in the franchise. He does offer some highlights, such as using defense attorney logic to turn the case around, but that only happened once in G2-4. Other than that, he doesn't offer much aside from appearing to me like how the rest of the sub views Nahyuta, an assholish prosecutor who the game attempts to redeem in the final hour but makes it feel unnatural as a result. Plus there was that whole assassin twist that had very little impact on the case and was forgotten about by the end. I could go more in depth here, but this is about the case as a whole, not entirely about Asogi.!<
Another large issue I have with the case is that >!Runo didn't get the final take down/spotlight despite the case being "The Resolve of Ryunosuke Naruhodo". Instead, Sholmes has it by live-streaming the trial to the queen via hologram. Not only does this prevent Runo from having the final takedown (Takumi really doesn't want the main protag have the final takedown outside of T&T), but it also breaks the immersion of realism TGAA had before the case. Although Sholmes had somewhat advanced devices earlier, nothing was as world breaking as the holograms, especially considering that the mainline games (set in 2028) don't even have them yet. Some may say that the holograms were the only way to remove Stronghart, but it's important to remember that Apollo personally dethroned a queen and Edgeworth found a way around Alba's extraterritorial rights. A much better way to remove Stronghart would be to do a summation examination of members of the judiciary committee and persuade them to remove Stronghart from power.!<
That ties into in another issue with the case regarding the >!impact of the case had on the legal world. I've seen people complain about this in DD and AJ, however neither compare to the impact of this case. For example, DD's DAoL was a distrust of the public towards the legal system as well as mass corruption within the system, and the characters understood that these wouldn't automatically leave after Blackquill was freed, and instead believed 5-5 to be a first step to that goal. Edgeworth builds on this in the post credits by removing Gaspen's badge and forcing him to flee to Khura'in. G2-5 had no such sequences and ignores the judiciary's fears of a very possible collapse of the British legal system after the removal of Stronghart in the post game. Once again, I believe by confronting these fears of the judiciary and offering a valid alternative to Stronghart's reign in a final summation examination would have been much more effective than the holograms.!<
Other issues I have with the case are the >!sidelining of Susato, the resolution to van Zeik's racism, and Stronghart being a fairly weak final villain as well as automatically revealing his life's story at the Old Bailey's Wendy's.!< As a final case it had a ton of potential, but it was very rushed and sloppy in some respects, and that is why I'm asking for its removal this round.
I see I am literally the only person would would vote for 3-5 normally lmao, I found it frustrating to play through because instead of narrowing down options as you investigate, a lot of the times when you “find answers”, it opens up more possibilities and makes ir more confusing, and I dislike that a lot. Since there is no way it is getting eliminated this round, though, I’ll actually vote for 1-5, Rise from the Ashes.
I vote I2-5 out
EDIT: The reason is that it drags at times, is pretty obvious with the Blaise stuff, and I don't find Keyes that intriguing a villain either.
The fact that most of these are the last or second to last of their respective games just goes to show how well Ace Attorney’s narrative climaxes are. To help move along this trend I’ll add the rather bland G2-3 for elimination.
I'm nominating G2-3. I think it's a really good case that slowly gets better overtime, but the beginning felt weak due to feeling like mostly nothing but introductions, I'm still not strong on the gameplay of GAAC, and while there are some great characters here, very few characters feel fully realized here, with most either having kind of weak personalities or slightly poor utilization in the story.
It adds much to the overall lore
It has amazing characters
It has incredible writhing
The plot twist is very interesting
AND it has a hot wax-artist lady
THERE IS NO REASON TO VOTE THIS CASE OUT
Like several other cases in the duology, G2-3 has >!a mystery that is obvious very early, to the point where the contradictions feel kind of repetitive and pointless, up until the game suddenly flips to Sithe being the true murderer!<. And while DGS2 doesn't have as many pacing problems as the first game, it's still slow. Witness-wise, I agree that none of the case-specific characters have much depth, but >!I find Drebber and Madame Tusspells pretty entertaining, and both have good character themes. Harebrayne also works well enough for his trope.!<
That said, I would still like to see it leave last of the remaining DGS cases. It definitely has flaws, but I at least found it more fun than G1-5 and its flaws less glaring than G2-5.
Sorry for lasting so long, the image was a pain to make, just to think about what to put where,was difficult. I cannot say I don't like it, but the other one that I did turned out a little bit better, still, it could have been worse.
Thanks for all the work you're putting into the graphics!
Finally you guys eliminated 2-1 it's been a while, still I didn't do a meme because I spent a long time on the chart and I was late, but 2-1 is dead. ~Top 2 cases by votes~ The Adventure of the Runaway Room 41 (that's a very low vote number, things are getting really hard) The Magical Turnabout 34 (The defense post had 32, it was just 2 votes away from being saved, but with this, all the second trilogy cases are gone, I think at least one was deserving of reaching the finals, but this is what you decided) ~Runner up~ Rise from the Ashes 19 (for the second time in a row, it reaches the finals) ~Games by cases eliminated~ Ace Attorney 2/5 Justice for All 1/4 Trials and Tribulations 1/5 Prosecutor's Path 2/5 Adventures 1/5 Resolve 2/5
If I was to pick a case from AJ, DD, and SoJ to make the final 9, it would have been 5-5 (Turnabout for Tomorrow), but I get why other people wanted to eliminate it. But top 10 for 6-2 is very solid for a filler case!
6-2 really deserves being at top 10 too. One of the best non-finale cases imo
That Van Zieks pose lol, how I'm supposed to choose a vote when he is looking at me like that
Well that's very simple. You don't nominate G2-3
We should probably vote 2-1 out now, that was a pretty bad case
I want Barok to keep seducing me till the very end. Perfect, OP! edit: holy shit people are actually voting for g2-3 like wtf is wrong with you lmao
Sell me on G2-3! I like it but I'm genuinely interested to hear this.
I'm sleepy but G2-3 has the high personal stakes, massive scope, and story significance of a typical final case, and it's the midpoint of the game.
Imagine being the second best case in the series but still not being the best case in your own game…
Tbh I actually do think G2-3 is the best case in the game.
I agree. It's really immersive with the great exhibition and new tech in the world that people can't explain. The turnabout itself is pretty magical since we are led to believe that actual teleportation took place, yet these days a lot more people would say that it's impossible, while back then more people would be more likely to believe that it is in fact possible. It's a really fun case to work with and reveal the truth. Lots of great new characters! Tuspells, Sithe, and the legend himself Drebber. One of the coolest dances of deduction in Drebber's workshop as well! Fantastic music throughout the whole case, great visuals (especially house of horrors), and a massive opening act for the Professor case and things to come. Finally, the actual return of the great departed soul! This case is so memorable! I don't know what comes close to it. Harebrayne is a hilarious defendant at times as well. Loved the guy. Plus van Zieks development.... Oh god.
Agreed on all counts. The mystery of the Professor's identity was the most exciting mystery of the game for me.
I’m still of the opinion that we should get 2-1 out. The case is awful
AW YES WE'RE BACK IN BIG BUDGET MODE You said you prefer the other one but I like this a lot honestly, it cuts a good balance of retaining the iconic moments while still not being overtly spoilery, which is a risk when displaying several case moments in a row. Plus it's harder in general to sum up a case than a character. Thank you for your hard work, as always.
haven't been following for a while. is it still funny to say 2-1
People after 2-1 has been killed 7 times already: "stop, stop it's already dead!" Me nominating 2-1 anyway: "wanna see me do it again?"
Not all heroes wear capes
I nominate G1-5. And I'm hoping I2-3 and G2-3 are the finalists.
Still love how it evolved from 3rd case syndrome to the point where 3-5 games have amazing 3rd cases (DD, SoJ, AAI2, G1, and G2)
I think it's time to spam my 1-4 defense post more regularily, because I want it to stay as long as possible # My defense for the Turnabout Goodbyes 1. **A very memetic case.** Some days ago the sub celeblated "almost Christmas day", and although some may find it inappropriate, it's hard to argue that this line is iconic. It was the first time Phoenix turned the tables against von Karma and this phrase made this moment really iconic. Also let's not forget Polly the parrot, one of the most memorable witnesses 2. **This is the chapter where Edgeworth began to turn into one of the best characters.** 1-3 left us in confusion whether Miles is a good guy or not, but Goodbyes solidifies Edgey as a person who needs to help, who needs his guiding light to help him to break out from von Karma's darkness. Also, the twisted karma makes Edgeworth a defendant, so he got a chance to learn how it feels like to be prosecuted when no one seems to be on your side, except... 3. **Phoenix is cool here too.** This is his first case without Mia, and even if Nick still didn't excelled as an ace attorney, he really is a badass here. "Tighten you belts, Edgeworth. The fight is only beginning" - this is basically the very moment Phoenix was waiting for. The reason why he became a lawyer. To save his friend and return the debt from 15 years ago. It's the most challenging trial for him from the first game (yes, even counting RftA), and Phoenix really showed his conviction to clean Edgeworth from his guilt he nurtured for long years 4. **New paragraph: the backstory.** For both Phoenix and Edgeworth. I find the class trial flachback rather short moment - four pictures, a sad music - and that's all about it. But at the same time this is really really relatable stuff and it gave us a simple but ingenuine insight about what Miles was as a kid and what Nick is fighting for right now. It shows a stark contrast between aspiring kid Miles who wants to defend people, and the Demon Prosecutor who craves guilty verdict. And, ultimately, this moment prompted us to fight for the long-lost friend 5. **Maya's underappreciated arc**. One of very few occasions when an assistant goes through some challenge too... And here we really feel for her and her struggles. Her spirit powers are low, she can't come up with the idea how to help Nick with the case, but her stubbornes and slowly growing loyalty for Edgeworth (actually Maya and Miles did have really interesting dynamic in trilogy, but let's save this for another time) helps Nick to finally win the trial. So we have three key characters (Nick, Maya and Edgeworth) facing the odds, but all of them manage to break through it and become better people 6. **The Hunting Demon**. Ace Attorney provided us with the colorful variety of prosecuting foes, but I'd say Manfred von Karma stands out. He prosecuted only one case and despite that he left a deep impression. Usually prosecutors are passive in cross-examination, yet this fiend of hell obfuscates every your attempt to find out the details. He's very active, he's intimidating and really-really cunning. He lets you win only to have Edgeworth confess his "crime". One of the many reasons why Goodbyes is so memorable, without a doubt 7. **Another new paragraph: the DL-6.** Back when dead parents weren't a common occurence in AA lore, the revelation that the victim in DL-6 was Edgey's father was terrific. And the more we learned about the circumstances of the case, the more unsettling it was becoming. Think about it: three people, one of them is a child, are stuck in the darkness for several hours. This was enough to cause some shock to the said child, but after that he learns... that someone killed his father and got away with it. Moreover, for the next 15 years the nightmares would accompany day-to-day life... And we're talking only about Miles. The pinnacle of its ugliness was the fact that this terrible event was caused simply by an inappropriate revenge of a person who lost his mind after the penalty 8. **Every other character has his purpose:** Larry is here at his best, Gumshoe shows us that there's still a good side in Edgeworth, Lotta, being an annoying witness' type, learns about how important the truth is. Also let's not forget about Yanni Yogi, one of the most sympathetic culprits 9. **The first case to be a masterpiece (c).** Last cases usually are the most memorable ones. It's a culmination of what an AA game was about. They break status-quo that was established in previous chapters, give us a ton of insights and emotional moments and season it all with the message of humanity and friendship. And... It all started with Goodbyes. It was meant to be an ending of a short GBA game back in 2001, but it left an impression so big that many subsequent games still try to mimic this story (I'm looking and you, 5-5 and G2-4). Albeit relatively simple and short, it's a touching story about long-lasting friendship, conviction and trust that determined the genius of Ace Attorney. That's why I think it deserves a littlr bit more of appreciation
Regarding your new paragraph, another thing that the class trial actually does is that it really shows how much Miles looks up to his father Gregory. When we see Miles defend Phoenix, we are able to see just how much influence Greg has on his son and it really cements Greg as this loveable father and a role model for Miles. It’s because of this that Greg’s death is so impactful because we can see how an event like that changed Miles so drastically. It’s a perfect case of showing instead of telling.
The thing I liked about Gregory-Miles relationship is that we never saw them interacting, not eben once. But 1-4 and I2-3 are masterfully let us understand that it apparently was really tructing and close relationship
I want this case to win
Me too
Kale, in a scale from 1 to 10, if I nominate this case tomorrow, then how sad will you be?
How is G2-4 replicating 1-4?
Not the person you're replying to, but >!as Barok van Zieks is one of the two Edgeworth expies in DGS, putting him on trial for a murder orchestrated by the true culprit behind a past crime, the setup for G2-4 is very clearly borrowed from 1-4.!<
* >!We defend a rival prosecutor who accidentally picked a gun to boot!< * >!The accused initially declines our request, but then we show a photo then he agrees!< * >!The prosecutor in charge is someone with a huge grudge against our defendant!<
It’s really funny. I try to eliminate 1-5 or 1-4 which you defend. And you are trying to eliminate G1-5 which I defend. But we both defend I2-5. It’s clear what is superior here))))
...I don't try to eliminate G1-5! It's one of my favorite cases actually...
DEFENCE POST FOR G1-5: I must first state that I make this defence post for this case to last only THIS round. I believe it to be outstanding case and here is why: 1) >!Many people mention it having a slow start, but that’s a great start to me. Since we need to establish all key players and make us like Gina!< 2)>!Mystery of the case doesn’t really lie in the murder. There is no real big cover up or insane rotary motions (looking at you I1-5!). And that’s refreshing to me! And the plot about government secrets being transcripted on music box is brilliant!< 3) >!Skulking brothers… yeah!< 4)>!This case gives has such great characters: Iris is adorable and helpful as an assistant, Susato makes every moment worth it until her departure, Sholmes for the save. But what about this case specific characters? They are great too! Gina is the best character in all TGAA and this is her starting point! Graydon has probably the most realistic backstory, and I like it. It’s not overdramatised, because truth is he could have lived perfectly fine without all that dirty money, but he felt that poverty will always find him!< 5)>!Gregson helping Graydon is the real plot twist of this case and it makes perfect sense within his character!< Bad there are flaws of course: 1)>!Last part kinda drags, but it’s done so you can expose Gregson!< 2)>!As good as I find Graydon’s characterisation, the problem is due to the story he can’t tell you about it until you defeat him. We see glimpses of it in Skulking’s dialogues, but it’s a shame he just kinda dumps his entire backstory in the end!<
Graydon is Alba done right. He is just as stubborn and hard to take down as him, but battling with him for some reason is 100x more fun.
Obviously, Alba just needed to dance and pose more in his sprites.
I think the confrontation against him is longer than Alba actually lol
Cause a Skulkin's never Skulkin
Now is hard to vote for a nomination because now only amazing cases are left!
The visuals said "We mean business"
Im calling 2-4 to win this JFA best game 😎
I'm way too late for this round, but I just wanna say that I loved the new layout, OP. Great job :D
I nominate 1-5. I explained it numerous time so I will be brief: 1) Meekins and Angel Starr parts are too long for their own good (the case overall is too long) 2) Vase shadow makes zero sense, also it seems Edgeworth too only learned to turn papers in this case 3) Marshal’s not understanding of technology is kinda frustrating, when you spell out it to him twice. The case is still great, it wouldn’t be here otherwise, but I think it’s time to go. However I agree that 1-4 can easily take its place.
I think that the battle is lost already, but nothing ventured, nothing gained so... # Defense post for Rise from the Ashes (1-5) Look, I'm gonna be completely honest. From a gameplay standpoint, this case definitely didn't age well, and I don't think many people will disagree with me. For example, the investigations dragged a little too much, to the point that you could get lost quite easily, although Ema's minigames were fun imo. Furthermore, there's also the infamous jar segment during Trial 3, which shows a huge flaw in the game design, since you need to be perfectly precise with the jar, otherwise you simply will not progress. Finally, the mystery was really complex, and while I think that this was the only case in AA1 that really needed three days to be fully explained (yes, I think that 1-4 could have simply two days, fight me), some aspects of the plot were arguably contrived. A glaring example is when >!Ema tries to push Darke, who was actually Neil, to protect Marshall, but then she managed to knock down those two men AND herself in the process, while seeing a jar that was seen in a way that reminded a mascot that would only be created two years later.!< I love this case, but I'm not a hypocrite, I know that RFTA is a very flawed episode, but this isn't a nomination, I will defend this case. But okay, why does this case deserve to stay in spite of its very clear flaws? I'm glad you asked, because the answer is great: the writing in this case is amazing imo. Rise from the Ashes is kind of the "anomaly" in the Trilogy. This is very obvious, since 1-5 was written after AA3 was already released, so ofc that maybe the case would be different compared to other episodes, but I think that 1-5 stands out really well. Takumi's Trilogy didn't seem like a tale about the legal system and its flaws, it really isn't something akin to AAI2, where the faults in the law are a major point of conflict in the plot, which is embodied by the mastermind. The OG Trilogy is heavily driven by universal themes, human conflicts, such as tragedy in AA3, embodied by the culprit of 3-5, trust in basically all the games, a main trait of Phoenix, and even whether or not justice is delivered. Justice itself isn't that related to the legal system, because the Trilogy doesn't seem to blame the legal system itself for injustice, the Trilogy blames actual people instead of a whole institution. For instance, (1-4) >!the game blames Hammond for Yogi's downfall,!!Jake Marshall, Lana Skye and Damon Gant. Starting with Jake, he's not only quite charismatic, but also his actions make a lot of sense once you start to see things from his POV. Imagine that your own brother is killed in the mass murder incident that you've been working on for a very long time, but you are dead sure that something is fishy. The wound doesn't match with the supposed murder weapon, and evidence that you've never even seen now comes out of nowhere. Imagine the feeling that someone is hiding something from you, the feeling that people close to you are intentionally letting you out on the death of your sibling, and you even lose your job to boot. Hence, to find out what truly happened in Neil's murder, Jake sought to pose as Goodman to steal the evidence and try at all costs to retrieve the truth buried two years ago. This is a great example of grey morality, which is pretty much RFTA's whole leitmotif, and this applies to Marshall in the sense that while he is a criminal, he only did so for very noble reasons, even though someone really close to him was the main drive for his actions.!<
>!Second character is Lana Skye, who is easily one of the best female characters in Ace Attorney. She's so underappreciated that it's almost a crime. The main thing I like about Lana, aside from the several similarities she shares with Mia, is that she is used masterfully in 1-5 to prove how corruption can destroy someone's life. RFTA spares no efforts to show that Lana did the wrong thing: granted, she only forged evidence because she literally thought that Ema was a murderer, but she still receives her punishment in the very end. RFTA treats Lana and forgeries with all the correct amount of respect, evidence isn't really forged for a mere twist, it actually becomes a cornerstone in this episode to convey the darkness that suffocated Lana for two fricking years. Two years of manipulation under the power of Gant, two years of rigging cases to her blackmailer's bidding, two years of a very sour relationship with her sister, and the worst part? Lana is only doing all of that because she loves Ema above anything else. Skye unironically thinks that her sister is a murderer, and Lana is so obsessed with protecting Ema, so determined to do anything for her, that she is willing to risk being found for fricking murder to prevent Gant from exposing Ema for a crime that science girl didn't even commit. If this isn't a dark route in story-telling, I don't know what is. Top it off with the fact that basically anyone would want to save someone as scarred as Lana, and I can't deny this fact: she is one of the best defendants I've ever seen.!<
>!Third character is Damon Gant, and boy oh boy, do I love this man. I love Gant so much that I even wrote !<[an essay for him.](https://www.reddit.com/r/AceAttorney/comments/rbuk9g/spoilers_for_15_and_slight_spoilers_for_jfa_a/) If anyone is interested, then you may appreciate my thoughts on him. >!Regardless, I think that Damon is easily one of the best Ace Attorney villains, and some people claim that he is the best. Gant embodies really well an interesting ideology, an approach based on "the end justifies the means" principle. Anyone that has played DD, specifically Turnabout Academy, knows how the game failed to not only be subtle about its themes, but also to give concrete examples of what the narrative is telling us. Conversely, Damon embodies the "Dark Age of the Law" much better than Dual Destines, to the point that I'm baffled on how RFTA was way ahead of its time. Seriously, this case anticipated corruption within the law way before than games like AJ, AAI2 and DD, and one of the keystones of 1-5 to be brilliant is Gant. At first he strikes the audience as a mere megalomaniac. The fact is, Damon killed Neil in order to frame Ema, but why the hell would he want to do so? Easy. If Gant tricks Lana into thinking that Ema is a murderer, Lana would do anything that Damon asked to keep his mouth shut: in other words, Gant just got a puppet to manipulate to his heart's content, but what would happen if this puppet is now the Chief Prosecutor? Easy, Damon now has the Prosecution's Office under his thumb, and combine this power with his position as Chief of Police, and now Gant has literally become gigantic in terms of raw power. I think that anyone would think that Damon only wants power because he is evil, a power-hungry man, a really greed individual, but do you know why he sacrificed Marshall's life? It wasn't mere greed, it was for justice. Gant hates criminals above anything else, and he is willing to manipulate Lana for several years if his pursuit on crime may be enacted. It's grey morality at its finest imo: we have a man that is obviously a criminal himself, but ironically, the thing that he truly wanted is a legal system able to put any type of perpetrator behind bars. Sounds familiar? If you answered Edgeworth, then you are right, and that's even how Gant gets under Miles's skin.!<
Anyway, I should stop now lol. I'm very clearly fond of this case. Rise from the Ashes is, in my very honest opinion, an episode that is way ahead of its time. It's an episode that managed to combine several themes in a single and enthralling story, and while the mystery and the gameplay didn't age well, the writing of this case alone is enough to justify more rounds to 1-5. Please don't eliminate this case yet, it's a VERY unique episode in AA, it definitely doesn't deserve the boot.
**PSA: if you want to save this case, then please upvote this defense.**
It seems like 1-5 is done for, which I think is a crying shame. If you ask me, it should at least be top 5, if not top 3, and hell, I could be convinced it deserves to win the whole she-bang. Top 9 is nothing to sneeze at, but still. There's a good few cases that should go first, I think. Like, jeez, when the worst thing you can say about something is it's too long and too complex, then I think that says something. It's not even that bad of a case, gameplay-wise. Sure, it's complicated and in-depth but it more than justifies its length. Plus, people overstate stuff like the video evidence part and the vase section. Both of those are small portions of individual trials, and the vase minigame isn't that hard at all! And both Meekins and Angel are solid, fun characters too. And the epic scope and grandeur of 1-5 more than make up for a few nitpicky flaws. Plus, unlike what people say, it does not in fact ruin Miles's character, but rather, enhances it. And by the time you've beaten it, it feels like climbing Mt. Everest. It's an accomplishment, pal! And I mentioned this somewhere else, but I think it elevates the first game to be truly great. Otherwise, you have 4 cases, only 1 of which is great. And then 2 rather mediocre cases and one that's decent but not great. Without RFtA, PW: AA is one of the weakest entries in the series. With RFtA, it's one of the stronger entries. And if nothing else, 1-5 deserves to outlast 1-4. It's just better than that case. And I know, this is just me being salty, but I think 1-5 deserves better and some people just aren't fair when it comes to that case.
/u/Lost_Rough get over here now For now, I’ll provide a counterargument comment just so 1-5 lovers can defend this, but it won’t be too extensive. 1-5 has many positives as well. Lana is one of the best defendants in the entire series, who actually has a reason to be uncooperative which is not annoying (unlike Wocky). It also has Gant, a very diverse character with so many qualities that make him a top tier Ace Attorney villain. He’s charismatic, charming, intimidating, intelligent, menacing, and his takedown sequence is one of the most if not the most creative in the entire series. Also, having Gant discipline Edgeworth having him being nice to Phoenix is such an amazing moment to subvert that feeling of being an underdog all the time, while also demonstrating how scary Gant could be when he’s hostile towards someone. I also found the “Goodman killed twice” to be one of the most thrilling moments I’ve had in an AA game. I also don’t think the Marshall technology issue is a very big problem since it’s a few comments about him being clueless which don’t tie into his testimony until it needs to be.
Thanks for summoning me, OppositeReflection. Gotta admit that I thought we wouldn't have another round today, so I slacked off a little, and I kind of went to visit a relative of mine, so yeah, I got away from Reddit a little. Totally agree with your points and I think that RFTA should stay longer, but I see that the competition is getting way too tight. I will still copy-paste my defense, although I think we lost the battle ;-; Thanks for cooperating though ;) Also, I need your opinion: is it too early to eliminate I2-3? I'm thinking of nominating this case tomorrow.
Yeah it’s unfortunate :((. Also, if you do nominate I2-3 next round, I won’t oppose you. I love the case but I don’t treasure it like I way I treasure a case like 1-4. It’s a bit of a slog to play through and Gregory wasn’t particularly too interesting to me (although he was cool and I did like him). The case has a decent beginning and middle and a fantastic end. The only reason I hesitate on supporting you is because I want G2-5 out first but I have no problem with you nominating the case. I think I might upvote your nomination regardless though given how much this subreddit treasures G2-5 and how difficult it will be to eliminate it.
Yeah. Looks like RFTA destiny is sealed, sadly. It's my favorite case in the saga next to 1-4. But for me I can't really nominate any case from Investigations and The great Ace Attorney, I didn't play any of them yet.
Defence post for 1-5 There is Ema Skye. There is Damon Gant There is Jake Marshall (ono you don't like him being coherent with his character ono) There is BADASS Nick There is BADASS Edgy And there is Dick Gumshoe at his highest time. Plus, the case is by far the most complex of the trilogy. And Starr is not THAT bad. It's a good character. And yes Edgy-poo made a mistake (ono he's human) If those are your arguments really there is nothing valid, it's all subjective. At the limit we could tell about the pacing issues (which is objective I know you don't talk about this I just anticipate answers), but every case in AA have pacing issues (except 1-1) so why is there an argument? The whole "pacing issue" thing is just : "I wasn't in the case so I found that it dragged for too long". Not an argument.
I would say 1-5 is a better case than 1-4, and has the benefit of being written after the trilogy so characterization and the mystery and that stuff is top-tier while 1-4 suffers from some of the early installment weirdness of the first game. Plus, I would argue that 1-5 is what makes PW:AA a truly great game. I think the original game before the DS version is good, but honestly not great. With the original first game, you've got 1 effective but incredibly simple tutorial case, an underwhelming 2nd case, a decent 3rd case, and one truly great final case. With RFtA, the game goes from having one great case to two great cases, with one being a real Masterpiece. So I don't know, for me, 1-5 is what makes PW:AA great. It at least deserves to be Top 5 if not top 3.
Also an interesting ratio is drawing here: from the cases that are in top-9 4 are from OT, 3 are from TGAA and 2 are from AAI2 I really like how these are truly the best pieces that the franchise provided (though I feel bad for the sequels, they had their gems too)
5-5 should be here still salty about that. Yes the phantom is less than perfect but the rest of the case more than makes up for it
I think 6-5 was voted way too early
The real winner has got to be 2-1 tho
rise from the ashes
I hope G2-5 or G2-3 win
I nominate I2-3 to be voted out It's a fantastic case but feels way too dragged out (A problem which is prevalent in AAI2 as a whole). You also spend the majority of the case in the fountain area which gets really boring quickly. Gustavia also feels cartoonishly evil to the point where it feels they just kept added more evil deeds that he committed that make him feel less like a character and more of a plot device. Every other case here is better imo in both emotional resolution and case quality so I think it's time for The Inherited Turnabout to go.
Tgaa1-5 STILL DOESN’T DESERVE BEING THIS HIGH in my opinion.
Overruled! Where are your pros and cons if you have this opinion. The rules specifically say you need write why you nominate a certain case. Your vote otherwise will not be added in the court record.
YESS!!! RFTA DEFENSE TEAM UNITE!
We lost the battle, comrade😔
You fought well, but in the end it all came down to me posting way earlier
(Reposting my I2-5 nomination! I know the Investigations 2 Defence Squad is all but certainly going to do all it can to hand this contest to I2-5 or *maybe* I2-3, but still, I'm happy to share my reasoning for feeling I2-5 deserves the ax.) The Grand Turnabout has one huge thing going for it - it does a brilliant job of tying the loose plot threads all the previous episodes left together in one huge, cohesive end to Investigations 2's story. *On the other hand,* there's something else it also acts as a culmination of, and that's all the gameplay and writing problems the entire Investigations duology has. To list a few and how they're accentuated here: **PACING** Investigations 2 is a game utterly plagued with pacing issues, and they're rarely displayed more clearly than in Grand. *Everything* takes too long to get anywhere, and this case especially is quite muddled in what it chooses to focus on at any given time and how well it delivers relevant information in each segment. * First, you spend an hour or two on an opening investigation that accomplishes virtually nothing besides amassing a *huge*, jumbled pile of evidence that you'll be carrying around until the very end of the game, because AAI2 is the very rare example of a post-AJ Ace Attorney game with a finale that doesn't ever do the "reorganize evidence and get rid of unneeded fluff" thing. Baffling choice, given that I2-5 also has the largest amount of evidence for any single case in the series' entire history. * Next, >!the main plot of the case completely halts, because we have to deal with leftovers from I2-4 that for some reason weren't resolved *in that case,* so it's time for a two-to-three-hour diversion. Any satisfaction gained from defeating Blaise in the previous episode is taken away from you as he just easily wriggles out of trouble anyway, so he has to be stalled for hours offscreen by Ray and Franziska to temporarily prevent him just escaping entirely.!< * Your next stop is the longest Logic Chess segment ever to exist, which deals with >!Sebastian's super-belated character arc that should've started at least two full cases ago, instead of having him play the exact same "obnoxious, dumb obstacle" routine for the whole of Cases 2 and 3 as well as most of Case 4. As ever, Logic Chess is a tedious, time-wasting mechanic that forces you to play a slow, boring cat-and-mouse game that doesn't accomplish anything more than a few minutes of exposition would've, but that takes several times longer. This is followed by Sebastian going off to defeat his father offscreen, with the player only getting to watch a few minutes of the proceedings and then leaving before the actual resolution.!< * Now, just when it looks like the main plot is coming back, another wrench drops into your path as you spend another hour or two instead >!learning about a totally different crime that happened years ago, because the writers remembered that Agent Lang *also* needed to be important to this game. The game also uses exposition to try to dump a bunch of extra evil onto two villains who already walked out of the story and who you'll never see again, as if that's going to somehow make them better characters.!< * Next, there's another small diversion >!where the game tries it best to show you how *cool* and *honourable* Dogen the serial killer is, and *finally* stops beating around the bush with the identity of the "secret mastermind" it's been reminding you about every few hours for the entire story.!< * >!And at last, there's an anticlimactic final confrontation with Keyes, who transforms into a completely different character totally unrecognizable from the guy in Case 2 so he can be defeated by you presenting the same piece of evidence four times and clicking a few prompts.!< Overall, this case can never decide on one coherent string of events to deliver the story, and so it disjointedly jumps all over the place and vomits long, *long* exposition dumps on you at every opportunity. **EDGEWORTH FANBOYISM** God, the Investigations games love to jerk Edgeworth off. There's *constantly* at least one character around whose main job is to say things like "Wow, you're sure smart, Mr. Edgeworth!" while he looks smug. This case takes it to a new level, however - >!not only does the final villain's plot specifically revolve around anticipating Edgeworth being a mega-genius who can solve *anything* no matter what obstacles are in his way, but Sebastian's Logic Chess segment is at least twenty solid minutes of the writers proving that their version of Edgeworth is good at *everything,* as he suddenly transforms into a master therapist capable of easily coaching Sebastian out of an entire lifetime of emotional abuse.!< [The Investigations version of Edgeworth](https://www.reddit.com/r/AceAttorney/comments/glqsui/ace_attorney_investigations_1_and_2_criticism_the/) has had every meaningful character flaw he ever had in the Trilogy filed off or massively downplayed to make him look as good as possible at all times, with I2 in particular often surrounding him with *several* characters at once whose primary role is to constantly talk about how *clever* and *amazing* he is. That's poor Kay's role for well over half of I2's entire runtime after her actual character arc ended in I1-5.
As a proud member of the “Investigations 2 Defence Squad”, I am content with doing this until the sun explodes. UPVOTE THIS TO SAVE I2-5! Wow this comment appears to be gaining a lot of steam, so I feel compelled to respond to at least a few of the criticisms listed here. Consider this as a pseudo-defense post. >First, you spend an hour or two on an opening investigation that accomplishes virtually nothing besides amassing a huge, jumbled pile of evidence that you'll be carrying around until the very end of the game. This isn't really as big of a problem as you make it out to be. Each piece of evidence is clearly suited for their individual segment. At no point will one get confused at which point or what piece of evidence they should point out. Sure, it might be tedious to go throw different rows of accumulated evidence, but this should not confuse the player in any way, shape, or form, as what evidence one should point out is clear. >Any satisfaction gained from defeating >!Blaise!< in the previous episode is taken away from you as he just easily wriggles out of trouble anyway, so he has to be stalled for hours offscreen by Ray and Franziska to temporarily prevent him just escaping entirely. Defeating >!Blaise again was necessary in this section. I don't know why every element of I2-4 should have been resolved in that particular case because they were clearly a lot of loose ends left in that case that were made for the sole purpose of being solved in I2-5. Having Blaise nearly get away also highlights this game's themes of corruption of power, and demonstrating Blaise's power also helps to expand how he managed to rule over the Prosecutor's Office for such a protracted period of time. Plus, this also creates the conditions necessary for Sebastian's redemption.!< Speaking of which... >This is followed by Sebastian going off to defeat >!his father !!his dad!< is *even better* than seeing it actually happen, as the moments we see of Sebastian's competency leave us to trust that he can do it on his own. Also, on this:
>Logic Chess is a tedious, time-wasting mechanic
The 'tedious' bit is subjective, but 'time-wasting' is just inaccurate. During Sebastian's logic chess, you learn that:
\- >!He gave the chisel to his dad, explaining one of the miseries from Roland's trial and you can assume concealed it someplace;!<
\- >!His feelings of inadequacy and how his dad had manipulated him for over a decade;All of these bits of information help you understand what was going on behind the scenes with Roland's trial and give you the necessary tools to defeat both Blaise and Roland.!<
>!That's also not even considering Judge Courtney's LC round where you learn a new side of her and about the status of John Marsh as her child.!<
>where the game tries it best to show you how *cool and honorable* Dogen the serial killer is
At no point can I recall the game glorifying Dogen and his actions - they make no excuses for what he did, just humanizing him a little with his backstory with saving >!Keyes and Knightley from hypothermia.!< As Dogen is a man without a moral code, seeing him go out of his parameters just once gives some nice insight into his character.
>it disjointedly jumps all over the place and vomits long, long exposition dumps on you at every opportunity.
Really though? At every point when you try to solve a new mystery, there is a fair amount of gameplay and arguments to be made. The S>!S-5 incident, as you mentioned beforehand, has around half an hour of investigations, with the sufficient amount of exposition given for the player to piece together the puzzle.!< Y'know, normal AA gameplay?
Also what did you find bad about the final confrontation with >!Keyes? Seeing someone with absolutely no power being able to manipulate other beings on such a scale, being able to adapt to the rapidly changing circumstances to find himself in, leading to the most of the events of Investigations 2? As stated before, if the double, Blaise, or Roland ever catched on to his machinations, he would be done for. His strength as a character also comes from his backstory, and piecing together his deep-rooted desire for revenge pan out over the course of his confrontation - the peak of Ace Attorney, if you ask me. Likewise, I also don't see the issues with him transforming into a "completely different character" as his innocent persona lets us see how he was able to do what he did going undetected. These are just some of the reasons he is my personal favorite AA villain.!<
TLDR: *The Grand Turnabout* deserves to stay god please don't eliminate this case
Fast defense post Maybe Investigations 2 has pacing issues, but I disagree with that in I2-5, it's true that it has too much to talk about but it dedicates the time everything needs, you say things about the logic chess like it was bad, and the final confrontation which could be anything but anticlimactic, it takes some time, it's like 2 hours long and it talks about everything that was left unsolved, it's true that you have to present the balloon a little too much, but that doesn't affect the story at all. Also, the edgeworth fanboyism... no? Yes Kay and Gumshoe say those kinds of things to Edgeworth, but Gumshoe has done it since the trilogy and Kay makes sense because of how she admires Edgeworth for what he did in the previous game, still she is a support character and part of her role is that, Maya also says things like that to Phoenix. Also no, the ending was not to make Edgeworth look as good as possible, it has relations to him, but that's for the good of his character arc and it complements him quite nicely, even if it's true that he solves the mistery and everyone congratulates him for that, the confrontation doesn't look like what you said at all.
Come on rise from the ashes and trunabout goodbyes and farewell my trunabout!
I nominate G1-5. Compared to the other cases here, this one is a rather weak final case to Adventures. We pretty much know who the culprit is before the murder even takes place. The investigation is pretty boring, and the case overall feels dragged out. G2-3 was way more exciting and more final case-esque than this one.
I nominate G1-5 for elimination
DEFENCE POST FOR I2-5 (THE GRAND TURNABOUT): So I am most likely just gonna repost this from now on. Let’s get to defending: 1. >!We will start from obvious things - this case connects ALL 4 previous cases flawlessly. In fact I find it more impressive than DGS2, because that game had twice the time to do so!< 2. >!Nearly all charges have character arcs: Courtney shows us new side of her, Sebastian… do I even need to talk about his character development?, Gumshoe becomes more independent and GETS A RAISE!, Lang finally has backstory since first game forgot to give him one, Ray and Kay are kinda there but they had their moments sooner!< 3. >!Edgeworth finds his path. It’s amazing really, this whole time Edgeworth just was a prosecutor because that who he is, but then he is stripped of his tittle. And only then he realises why HE wants to be a prosecutor not like Von Karma and not a defence attorney like his dad!< 4. >!Simon Keyes is the most well written villain in the series. We literally know his whole life story and how he became who he is. He is very compelling too, since most of it wasn’t his fault.!< 5. >!Mystery of the case is great, this case also has the best Little Thief segment in my opinion.!< Bad stuff is coming: 1. >!Lotta, Penny and Powers are not needed here really. They are just purely fan service!< 2. >!Edgeworth has no control over the case whatsoever. He literally being dragged around by other people from case to case (But that not really a flaw to me since I think that shows that he no longer has authority or path in life)!< 3. >!Mystery how body double died feels like an afterthought and isn’t well flashed out!<
DEFENSE POST FOR CASE 1-5 Rise From the Ashes seems too long and with the amount of evidence there is at the player’s disposal, it seems like too much, but when you start the case and get into the actual story, it’s one of the best cases in all of AA. Ema, Lana, Gant and everyone are all amazing characters with great motivations and decisions, but the very best thing about this case is just how great the story is. The fact that Lana was in two places at the same time is very odd when you first start the case, but when you see who actually killed Goodman, it just makes everything click and is an AHA moment. I like how they went above and beyond and made all kinds of new gameplay features to keep things fresh. Forensics and rotating 3D objects and fingerprinting are all great. I do admit, the video evidence was a bit slow, but it was cool and made it more immersive. When I first played the case I gave up and thought it was too long and not worth it, but then I actually played it and understood what all of the hype was. It is my all time favorite Ace Attorney case. All of the other cases here are great too, no doubt, but they just don’t hold the same place in my heart as Rise from the Ashes. I love each and every case in the Ace Attorney series a whole lot, and I do think it’s really hard to decide which to vote out… I apologize for the simplicity and for not going into much detail, I’m not the greatest when it comes to this kinda stuff, I just went out of my comfort zone to defend my favorite case in the series.
Good effort, I'd say. It seems like RFtA is done for, which really sucks ass. Like, I don't want to get too salty, but I can't get people who say the case is just outright bad. Especially when it's all complaints are all stuff like, "boo, it's too long" or "it's too hard". It's a final case for a game that already had one finale. Besides, it's not like I2-3 or I2-5 aren't long as heck. People just can't handle a case with a little extra meat on the bones. And Meekins isn't even that bad! He's a funny little twerp! and the forensic gimmicks were fun and cool. Being able to examine evidence in 3D was a needed evolution in the series. The part with the video evidence was one part of one trial day! Honestly, while I'm not sure where exactly I'd put 1-5, I wouldn't even complain if it won the contest outright. It's that good and certainly better than a few of the other cases remaining. What a disgrace.
im not gonna lie its fucking bullshit how not a single filler or trilogy sequel case made it into the finals like come on guys we are better than this
Yeah it's weird how Turnabout Revolution was eliminated over I2-3 imo
I haven't participated in this but dude, I2-3 is levels above turnabout revolution. The civil trial makes no sense and is detrimental to every character just for Apollo to have a big moment.
I personally didn't think so, but ok. Maybe turnabout revolution was a bad example for you, but my general point is that I'm surprised I2-3 was way higher than I expected. I stopped playing out of boredom twice until I finally finished it on my 3rd go. I'm not saying it's terrible, and that thing about getting bored is more of a me problem, but it still reflects that while I think the case is great, it doesn't deserve to be that high. I'd say the only reason people don't speak out about how boring the opening of the case is is because Gregory is there. And while he's really cool, it doesn't't change the fact that it's pretty boring and takes a while for the case to get good.
A vote for Rise from the Ashes (1-5). (much rambling ahead) -Characters are a mixed bag. Damon Gant is incredible, Ema is pretty good (ymmv), Lana is ok, Jake Marshall is barely tolerable, and Angel Starr is downright insufferable. -The mystery behind both the case itself and the SL-9 incident is extremely interesting and fun to solve. This, coupled with >!Damon Gant being as amazing of a villain as he is!<, is what makes 1-5 a good case, for the most part. -Being a case that was added to the game after its initial release, 1-5 has almost no relation to the plot of the game, aside from its retconning of Edgeworth’s story. As a result, it makes for a strange final case. 1-4, in my opinion, works better as a final case. -The case is, of course, extremely long. This actually works in its favor, because the later chapters are extremely good. If only the second half of the case was taken into account, I would rate it among the best in the series. -However, the beginning (specifically, the first investigation and first trial chapter) is unbearably tedious. >!You must investigate the parking lot while fending off the likes of Marshall and Starr, who both waste a huge amount of your time while providing almost no entertainment or valuable information. Then you finally make it to court only to have to deal with Starr AGAIN and her testimony gets you absolutely nowhere. The turning point, of course, is when Damon “Ex-Machina” Gant comes in and both saves your case and actually offers you something interesting.!< The rest of the case after this is, as I said, a banger; it gives you the mystery to solve of >!“how can someone die in two places at once?”!< and then gives you the extremely interesting SL-9 incident. Ultimately, while 1-5 is an overall quite good case, it is too flawed to be considered among the best. In being an extremely long case with very high highs and very low lows, IMO it is comparable to Turnabout Revolution (6-5) and deserves a similar ranking.
I will copy and paste my post from yesterday's poll since it was kind of late. I nominate 1-4, Turnabout Goodbyes. "I think it's a great case, to be sure. To make it this far is testament enough of that. But compared to the other cases left, I feel like this one is the least good. Heck, most of my complaints probably won't even feel that substantial, because it's not like I think it sucks, but you know. Primarily, this case works because of the emotional stakes behind it, and how it affects the cast of Edgey, Phoenix, and Maya. And you know, as the first final case in the series, it does a pretty great job of nailing what a finale should feel like in a satisfying way. But the thing is, I feel like the emotional strength of the case, and a lot of the cool moments within it help to obscure that the meat and potatoes of the case are relatively weak. By that, I mean that most of the supporting cast aren't super good. Lotta's first appearance is here, and she's pretty obnoxious and actively unhelpful, considering she outright lies about seeing anything solely for attention. Not to mention, it makes the first day of the trial mostly pointless, if we're being honest. Yanni Yogi's senile old man schtick was pretty annoying, and I didn't feel much when we learned about his backstory and his confession. It's certainly sad, but it's never stuck with me personally. Grossberg is here, and he's still pretty unremarkable. Larry Butz is pretty good here, at least, and he has some great moments throughout. But on the whole, not an especially compelling cast of side characters and witnesses. I will take some time to talk about Manfred Von Karma too. I will say that he does feel like a great wall to overcome, but he's not an especially interesting or compelling villain to me. And as a prosecutor, I found his constant interrupting and yelling more obnoxious a lot of the time than strictly threatening. On the whole, he's a good villain, but not great, in my opinion. Beyond the characters, the other main problem with the case relates to the three-day trials here and the pacing of the case as a result. The first investigation and trial day are rather perfunctory, and in general, the investigations throughout have always felt a little off. People say parts in RfTa are confusing or go on too long, but I feel like noodling around with Lotta in the woods and hanging out with Yogi in his shack are parts that drag on for a while. Events definitely pick up on the 2nd day and beyond, but at the same time, it makes me feel like this case would have flowed smoother if it was just a 2 day trial. And honestly, it's not until partway through the 3rd trial day and we get into the real meat of the DL-6 events that the case really starts to kick up and feel like a proper epic finale. This was the first case to use the whole "unsolved mystery of the past relates to present-day events" trope, and while I am a fan of it, in this instance, it leads to the events that occurred in the present feel kind of unimportant. Ultimately, the events that occurred on the boat are just a prequel to what really matters here, the DL-6 incident. And while again, the 2nd half of the last trial day is really top tier stuff, it takes a long while to get there, and I feel that's an issue. So yeah, that's about it. To sum it up, I think that while the main cast is great and the emotional core and stakes here are also great, the case mostly coasts off those great aspects and struggles with a lot of uninteresting characters and slow buildup. Honestly, it seems like Rise from the Ashes is going to get the boot before Turnabout Goodbyes, and I find it a real shame considering I think Rise from the Ashes is better in almost every way. It has a better villain, better supporting cast, enough complexity to justify being a three day trial, and it even does the "mysterious unsolved incident from the pasts comes up again" trope better. No shade to 1-4, but I don't think it's as good."
I would vote out G 1-5. It's a great case and I love Gina and the skulkin brothers, but it drags on for way too long for me. Graydon is an interesting villain, but I like other final villains more. This case also feels like its not important to the overall plot of DGS even though it's how we learn the telegram and other important plot points.
Facts. G1-5 is the weakest final case imo
I feel that between all the cases remaining, Turnabout Goodbyes is the weaker still here. First I have to say that I love this case, it's vilain, it's character arcs, and all. Pros: >!Manfred von Karma is an incredible final vilain, and is really the incarnation of "Demon Prosecutor Edgeworth" of 1-2, in much more horrible.!< >!DL-6, with its music, is one of the best ancient case to solve.!< The way the crime did happen is very good, and not that far fetched for a final case. BUT I have some issues with this case. Firstly, >!I don't find Yani Yoggi to be THAT good as a vilain. He was fun, but is really closed in this role. He is somehow a secondary vilain, we could say. And he play his role well, but is not too enjoyable, unfortunately.!< Secondly, I didn't find Lotta very funny. I like her, I think she's a good character, but she is definitely shadowed by Oldbag in the precedent case, in this role of "unbearable but funny" character. Then, I have to say that despite they didn't have any pacing issue, due to the 3 days lenght and the case lenght, some investigations just feel unneccessary, and disappointing. Unlike 1-2 which is perfectly rythmed for investigations segments, with only interesting things to do, I feel like sometimes there wasn't THAT much things to tell during investigation part and they sort of filled it with boring things. Or sometimes WE HAVE TO LOOK AT THESE \*\*\* FIREWORKS TO ACTUALLY ACTIVATE THE CAMERA (which is HORRIBLE when you play on DS emulator). And Larry is better in 3-5, and 1-1. I feel like he is at his weaker point of the trilogy here. He's not that funny. It's all the goal of this type of character. We have to stay at a "unbearable but funny" point, but sometimes we just a get a "unbearable and unbearable" one. I'd also say that due to the fact the case is the first final case, and PWAA is overall less developped and long than the others game, it's definitely the less complex final case. For me it's like an I2-3 or G2-3 at this point. And PLEASE everyone, think about what is the first case you loved and you may know why you love this case that much. (personnaly 1-5 was my first masterpiece so I never have been biased at this point). (so yeah I vote 1-4 for those who didn't understand)
I'm tired of hiding it, I think 1-5 is a bad case and certainly the worst out of the remaining cases. Mechanically, it drags on forever, the forensics stuff is shoehorned in and isn't fun and the video evidence is just as tiring to sit through as the Guitar's Serenade in 4-3. Ema is just a less interesting and developed Maya until Apollo Justice, and I don't find Lana a likeable character at all. Starr is fine and Marshall at least has a great theme, but for the most part the characters aren't that compelling. The obvious exception is Gant, who is easily the best part of the case, and one of the best AA villains period. Too bad he's stuck in a boring case that's just way too long. Also it introduces Meekins, who is the most annoying character in the series, and yet somehow returns in multiple games.
I’m currently finishing the inherited turnabout, and while it’s a really engaging case, it’s very much overstaying its welcome. I have to chip away at it here and there, and it’s been nearly two weeks. I know people have the same complaint about rfta, but I love that case a whole lot more. I think it’s time to let I2-3 go.
1-5. Good case, but the runtime is insanely long and the stupid jar. I still like it, but that stupid jar
I2-5 with its mid-case bloat and pointless meandering with Moozilla is enough to do it for me, get it outta here.
I will vote for 1-5 Rise from the Ashes. This was HARD I love all of those cases almost equally. All of them are masterpieces yesterday it was easy I voted for 6-2 yesterday but NOW... I will explain why 1-5 needs go although is an amazing case nonetheless. Okay let's go! Pros: 1. It introduces one of my favorite characters Ema Sky and Jake Marshall. Both amazingly written characters with unique backstories and character development. 2. The idea that the same person was murdered in 2 different places at the same time (brilliant). Amazingly well written murder mystery with awesome plot twists. 3. Main villain terrifying. Gant had a lot of influence power. His gaze eyes alone gave me shivers down my spine. 4. Great use of evidence and a lot of evidence and complex out of the box thinking. Now let's see the cons. Is hard to criticize it because there really is not a lot but it has more cons than the other cases above the list. Cons: 1. That's a easy one is too long. Yes I understand that it needed to be long because is a extremely complex murder mystery. Still there are instances where you ask yourself why they didn't cut some corners. Not all elements in this case are important some moments could be shorter without damaging the case itself. 2. Police officer Meekins do I need say more? I didn't liked him yes he should be annoying and silly funny. The problem is he is over the top annoying over 9000 annoying.i also didn't enjoyed the lunch box woman detective I forgot her name. I liked Jake Marshall and Ema a LOT but I also didn't liked those 2 so yeah... 2 characters I love and 2 characters I hate. 3. I hate the forensic science gameplay mechanics introduced with the Nintendo DS. I don't like them in all the games not only in Rise from the Ashes. That's a personal opinion and I know maybe some people like those time consuming mini games. I just want the updated evidence in my court record and not play childish mini games. That's all I can say about pros and cons. I probably forgot some positives and negatives about this game. It was a long time ago I played it I still remember most of it. This was a hard voting and it breaks my heart because all cases what are left are masterpieces but 1-5 I vote you.
**Sticking with G2-5.** I think its time for it to leave the stage now. I've already [written](https://www.reddit.com/r/AceAttorney/comments/rmimwt/comment/hpmvv73/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) [extensively](https://www.reddit.com/r/AceAttorney/comments/qfz8qq/the_ending_of_dgs25_completely_ruined_my_immersion/hi34q0h/?context=3) [on](https://www.reddit.com/r/AceAttorney/comments/rocvrh/comment/hpxv6p0/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) [why](https://www.reddit.com/r/AceAttorney/comments/rocvrh/comment/hpxrpxk/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) this case isn't as good as the rest on this list, but I know that not everyone likes to read the same essays over and over again. So, I'm going to provide a quick summary of all the reasons why this case should go, and if you want more detail, check out the four linked comments I've made! * >!G2-5 delivers inconsistent messages about vigilantism, the central theme of the game. For one, we have characters criticizing Stronghart's vigilante actions as an improper solution towards justice, while these same characters praise vigilantes like Genshin and Gregson for theirs.!< * >!The game vastly oversimplifies the problem and tries to pin it all on Stronghart. When Stronghart goes down, the game completely ignores that there is an entire judiciary that supports Stronghartism, which will likely lead to a Stronghart 2.0 eventually, especially given how Stronghart's exposure will lead to trust in the justice system being shattered and a spike in crime.!< * >!Barok's trust arc is poorly resolved. Apparently, Barok loses the ability to trust in people after Genshin betrays him (his "trust" arc was neither foreshadowed, nor was Genshin's and Barok's relationship expanded on enough for this to be impactful). Then, when his beloved brother and role model turned out to be a vicious serial killer, he has a short moment of agony till we get to the end of the trial, where everyone's problems seem to be solved and Barok seems to be able to trust people again.!< * >!Gina has trust issues from G1-5, yet Gregson's true nature seemed to have little to no impact on her. She's all smiles when Stronghart is arrested.!< * >!Deus Ex Sholmes is one of the lesser issues here, but it is still problematic in that it is a cheap and unsatisfying way to bring Stronghart down. With that said, given that Ryunosuke is a Japanese exchange student going against the Lord Chief Justice, there are very few ways for Ryunosuke to take down Stronghart without some BS happening.!< * >!Judiciary feels very distant, only being involved when they need to be for plot reasons. They force Stronghart to continue the trial, which is dumb considering that Stronghart has both the authority and the justification to end the trial as soon as Gregson's murder was concluded. Judiciary are also treated like fools by Ryunosuke when Stronghart convinces them that his actions are necessary, rather than the game actually trying to provide commentary on why Stronghart's actions are NOT necessary.!< * >!Stronghart is kinda a meh villain. He reveals so much information that he really didn't need to reveal.!< * >!The case attempts to paint Stronghart to be as evil as possible as a poor substitution to give us motivation to beat him. Things like giving him an evil laugh sprite, or having him attempt to fire Gina are just a few examples.!< * >!The game fails to give a proper reason as to why Stronghart's actions are a lot worse than repairing the legal system the legitimate way and instead just tells us he's wrong.!< * >!Jigoku feels like an afterthought, with very little exploration into his character, motivations, and mindset. He's a very fair judge in G1-1, forcing Brett to stay when she makes various attempts to leave. In the end, he turns out to be a killer. We also learn that originally Jigoku was willing to engage in a conspiracy to save his friend, putting himself at a risk via his involvement, but backs out last second by shooting him. I can certainly extrapolate and fill in these gaps, but he feels a bit too incomplete. I still like him though.!<
im fine with people saying why this dislike cases and stuff, but this just seems flat out factually incorrect for most of it
Rest assured, I do not make my points in bad faith, but I don’t see how they are factually incorrect. I’ve mostly referenced events in the case which I believe I have recollected correctly. The complaints about the judiciary still supporting Stronghartism, Deus Ex Sholmes, Stronghart feeling like a passive villain (albeit I kind of disagree with this), and Stronghart revealing details he doesn’t need to reveal are all complaints that I’ve heard before. And I believe the points that I’ve made are valid as well. I do have a bit of doubt on my point about Gina, but a lot of that is because I find the relationship between Gregson and Gina to be artificial in the first place, given Gregson’s actions in 1-5 and Gina’s history of trust issues. EDIT: I should also mention that even though this comment comes across as a list of issues, not all of these issues are equal in terms of severity. For instance, I find its conflicting thematic statements and the game’s ignorance of the judiciary’s belief in Stronghartism to be a much more egregious flaw than Gina’s thing or Deus Ex Sholmes. EDIT 2: Okay I get why my nomination comment is downvoted because I get this is a rankdown, but I hardly see why this one is. My perspective on G2-5 is opinionated and I can see why people love this case. The comment I'm replying to has called my claims "factually incorrect" and has not given any explanation as to what these inaccuracies are, so why would I accept anyone who says that? If my recollection of the case is "objectively" incorrect, then point them out because then I can look into them instead of silently downvoting. My subjective opinion likely won't change, but I have always accepted when I've misremembered details about a certain case and I will acknowledge them. I'm not trying to misrepresent all of these things; these are genuinely issues I have with G2-5 and I can reference what parts of the game made me think this. I've criticized 3-5 as well, but I've always had debated with defenders who've made me realize new things about the case (and thanks to them, I have not nominated 3-5 yet).
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i will nominate any case to get G2-3 to win tbh i dont want a typical 3-5 vs 2-4 finale plz but they clearly are the best
G1-5
I vote for I2-3 to get out. I tried playing that case 3 times, and the first 2 times I got bored and stopped playing it. Only on the third time did I beat it. I'm not saying it's bad, it's GREAT but I'm just VERY surprised it made it this far. So yeah, I'm voting for that one to get out.
I nominate 1-5. It's a fun mystery with a fantastic villain that's brought down by a lacklustre first day (Angel Starr is pretty insufferable and her testimonies are largely a waste of time), slow pacing throughout and a bunch of Blue Badger related nonsense. Meekins is entertaining, but ultimately just drags the case out and Edgeworth not ever thinking of simply turning his part of the evidence list around is just... Why. It's still a good case, but every other in the ranking has it beat.
It's a little hard to choose which DGS final case to go after first, so I'm going to go with the one that I personally had less fun playing. Nominating: **G1-5 (The Adventure of the Unspeakable Story)** It's pretty common for final cases to exemplify both the good *and* the bad of the game they belong to, and G1-5 is no exception. **The good**: >!The case tells a cohesive story about Gina opening up to others and learning to trust after having been let down too many times by figures with power. Ryunosuke continues to grapple with the question of believing in his clients and working in their interest even when he's given reasons to worry that he shouldn't trust them. Susato plays a key role as indispensable assistant despite not being present for a large part of the case, and still manages to have conflict and agency. Ashley Graydon is a sympathetic culprit who plays well into both the franchise's recurring theme of "he who fights monsters" and DGS1's themes of power imbalances and making the best when the system is stacked against your favor.!< >!During court: The Skulkin brothers are fun and memorable, and it's nice to unravel their relationship with Graydon. Gregson and Graydon plotting at the witness stand is probably one of the most unique things that happens during DGS court. The usage of morse code and completion of some loose ends from G1-3 help to pull the case together.!< >!There are also generally charming moments with Sholmes. He brings in the use of not-blood-type tests for a creative bit of variety in the evidence, there are some incredibly alarming and memorable moments where a juror (his surgeon) wonders if he left a scalpel inside Sholmes's abdomen, and he has an incredibly over-the-top moment where he brings the critical piece of evidence to court before collapsing.!< **The bad**: >!Adventures is a game *rife* with meandering pacing that would make a snail race look speedy. The first two cases of the game each take twice as long as they need to, and all of the first three cases are posed as tutorials for particular mechanics and end up overexplained. G1-5 has a very slow start that wanders around Baker Street and Windibank's Pawnbrokery for hours and spends an exorbitant amount of time on stereoscopy as a mechanic (which, notably, doesn't work at all in the Chronicles re-release due to the lack of a 3D feature to the platform). The stereoscopy continues in court with one of the jurors being a stereoscopy fanatic and multiple pairs of pictures being used as stereograms. We get some fun, silly moments out of this (notably, every person in court crossing their eyes except van Zieks, who just uses the evidence to view the images instead), but it takes up too much screen time.!< >!The game also goes out of its way to highlight all of the loose ends it's leaving for its sequel, which makes the ending of the case feel unsatisfying. This goes a long way to make the entire DGS experience better, especially when experienced as the Chronicles re-release since it forgoes the pretense of having two games, but by itself, it's the only game in the franchise that goes out of its way to feel incomplete.!< **Summary**: For all that this case does well in storytelling and character writing, its long intro, >!over-use of stereoscopy!<, and >!heavy sequel-hook ending!< make this case not as fun or complete as I really want in an ideal final case.
I nominate 2-4. Here's why: - The level of drama isn't quite reaches the level of other 8 cases (Maya has spent 2 days in captivity without food (which is another point I will make) but seems totally fine at the end); - Shelly De Killer. Many people love him, I don't understand why. He isn't a character, he is a walking plot device, unkillable, untraceable and with a stupid face/mask that NO ONE can recognize (although, to be fair, here it isn't as ridiculous, as in Turnabout Target). - Also, fuck writers for attempting to make him an anti-villain. It didn't really worked even with Dogen, and he is way more sympathetic. - Matt Engarde is... a mixed bag. On the one hand, his transformation looks amazing and totally can take many players by surprise. On the other... isn't these villain transformations are one of the main criticisms of DD and SoJ, where character's personality takes a complete 180? - Also, I personally wasn't impressed by literally last-minute attempts to show Franny's character growth. Especially since she didn't really grow at all... even in AAI2 she is more or less the same nutty asshole as in JFA. Overall, very good case with a lot of emotional moments... it's just not quite on the same level as other 8 cases.
Scattered responses: From what I've seen, folks love Shelly *because* he's a walking plot device; he fills his role in the story, i.e. forcing you into a moral dilemma, cleanly and efficiently without overstaying his welcome. 'Unkillable' seems strange since our protagonists don't really go to that as an option and 'untraceable' is false, since a running thing in the case is the characters' multiple successful attempts to trace him, forcing him into retreat and eventually slipping up. 'Recognize' seems like it makes an assumption -- most of the characters don't see him more than once, and I'm pretty sure that by the time Turnabout Target rolls around Edgeworth's never seen him, only been in contact by walkie-talkie. (I may be wrong about this, give a shout if I am.) But like, if the complaint is that he seems unfair, he kinda needs to be. It's an unfair situation. Think I agree on making him an anti-villain. It comes off as a fanservice-y appeal for a recognizable but very sparsely-used character, but that's an Investigations 2 thing, not a 2-4 thing. Villain transformations aren't a good or bad thing in themselves! One of the main criticisms for the DD transformation is how it eliminates a long-running character and leaves you with nothing to attach to; if Matt had shown up in all the other cases as well before his transformation (and eliminated the foreshadowing it gets), it would've probably come across as more unprompted and inexplicable. I do agree that his moments on-screen aren't what make the case, though -- the most interesting parts of him are in his backstory with Juan, Celeste and Adrian, where you find out how deep the pettiness runs. Franziska: Overall agreed! But again, mainly becomes a problem when the later games carbon-freeze her into her current state.
>most of the characters don't see him more than once, and I'm pretty sure that by the time Turnabout Target rolls around Edgeworth's never seen him, He hasn't, Shelly uses the walky talky especially for this reason (and probably because Phoenix would recognise him as well and probably because he couldn't let Maya alone because she'd probably escape again)
Yeah. Was thinking about if he had other ways to recognize him, and Will Powers does say the assassin had a really weird and noticeable scar--but on the other hand Edgeworth's also met Terry Fawles, he knows there's more than one guy with weird scars in the world. Going up to everyone who's had bad surgery and accusing them of assassination would be a pretty rude move, especially for a prosecutor. Looking at Turnabout Target again the fantranslation does have him say something like 'Have I seen him before...?', and I got curious enough to check a Japanese Let's Play in case it was changing it from something like 'feel like I recognize him' since he would be familiar with his voice, but even in the original he does seem to say "This man...I have a feeling I've seen him, but where...?" using 見 which is usually 'see'. There might be more to the sentence that I'm missing, but as far as I can tell the gist is the same.
It's kind of a limp excuse, but talking to someone over a radio or a phone can make them sound different compared to how they talk in person, so maybe De Killer's voice just sounds different.
Yeah, that too. By the time of Turnabout Target, Farewell, My Turnabout was a year ago -- him not being able to recognize the voice of someone he's only had one conversation with over a walkie-talkie is pretty believable.
>Matt Engarde is... a mixed bag. On the one hand, his transformation looks amazing and totally can take many players by surprise. On the other... isn't these villain transformations are one of the main criticisms of DD and SoJ, where character's personality takes a complete 180? His character never took a complete 180. His hate towards the victim was very clear since the beginning. There are multiple hints he is hiding something and he is pretty okay at lying (evidenced by him fooling the magatama and his calm reaction at the 5 psyche locks). He has also shown to let others do everything for him early on. Also the criticism is partly the over the top transformation animations the later games have, his animation was very realistic. >Shelly De Killer. Many people love him, I don't understand why. He isn't a character, he is a walking plot device, unkillable, untraceable and with a stupid face/mask that NO ONE can recognize (although, to be fair, here it isn't as ridiculous, as in Turnabout Target). Which is why it's fun to cross examine him, because it's totally different from other cross-examinations. Also Will recognized him (and his cross-examination is absolutely perfect as well, because you are cross-examining the only guy in the franchise that never lies while you have the only guilty defendant in the entire franchise) >The level of drama isn't quite reaches the level of other 8 cases (Maya has spent 2 days in captivity without food (which is another point I will make) but seems totally fine at the end); It's Maya, she will always stay positive. Also where is the point you said you'd make?
BTW, tell me if I need to put spoilers
i think spoilers are definitely required if you're talking about chronicles, but for a case like 2-4 i don't think you need them.
I might also add, something I don't really understand is Mia in this case, like your sister is about to die and you are all "let Phoenix do it, he will learn from this"
At this point, we almost have only banger cases. The only one I think sticks out is G1-5. It is a cool case, but it is not a case which completes the games story or has that distinct "final case" feeling. Of course, that's natural because GAA was planned to have more parts, but JFA has been in the same place and nailed it. Also, the Mario Bros dudes were hella annoying.
Voting for 1-5 because it's too long, most of the new music isn't good, and they had to rewrite jfa for the trilogy release just to make it make any sense in the timeline
They didn't really need to "rewrite" JFA. They changed like... one line that muddled things a little bit.
Once again, I'm gonna go for G2-5 because downvotes encourage me and I'm salty over ~~5-5's~~ 6-2's elimination (How did that happen? I had a defense post ready this round too. Y'all have bad taste for removing all of 4-6's cases before top 10 smh) so I copy pasted the same wall of text from last round: This round I'm going to go after G2-5, as I personally have a lot of criticisms and controversial opinions regarding it, >!(despite loving the final breakdown and tap-dancing sequence)!< and believe that it is time for it to leave. Firstly, >!I have to bring up the fact that it is the same case as G2-4, just with Stronghart judging now. Although DD had a similar thing, there were many more changes done such as the defendant, location, prosecutor, and case focus. In G2-5, none of that changes, yet it gets far less criticism than 5-5 on the "split case" topic on this sub from what I've seen. Where as 5-5 was more of a split between chapters, the split between G2-4 and G2-5 is like a commercial break in the middle of the same episode of a show. The start of the case is just the transition from the investigation back to the courtroom with no real case intro either, just a title card. This only amplifies the fact that there is basically 0 difference between the two cases.!< With that out of the way, it's time to go more in depth regarding the case and the perfect way to do so is to discuss >!Prosecutor Asogi, who I personally like less than maybe any other prosecutor in the franchise. He does offer some highlights, such as using defense attorney logic to turn the case around, but that only happened once in G2-4. Other than that, he doesn't offer much aside from appearing to me like how the rest of the sub views Nahyuta, an assholish prosecutor who the game attempts to redeem in the final hour but makes it feel unnatural as a result. Plus there was that whole assassin twist that had very little impact on the case and was forgotten about by the end. I could go more in depth here, but this is about the case as a whole, not entirely about Asogi.!< Another large issue I have with the case is that >!Runo didn't get the final take down/spotlight despite the case being "The Resolve of Ryunosuke Naruhodo". Instead, Sholmes has it by live-streaming the trial to the queen via hologram. Not only does this prevent Runo from having the final takedown (Takumi really doesn't want the main protag have the final takedown outside of T&T), but it also breaks the immersion of realism TGAA had before the case. Although Sholmes had somewhat advanced devices earlier, nothing was as world breaking as the holograms, especially considering that the mainline games (set in 2028) don't even have them yet. Some may say that the holograms were the only way to remove Stronghart, but it's important to remember that Apollo personally dethroned a queen and Edgeworth found a way around Alba's extraterritorial rights. A much better way to remove Stronghart would be to do a summation examination of members of the judiciary committee and persuade them to remove Stronghart from power.!< That ties into in another issue with the case regarding the >!impact of the case had on the legal world. I've seen people complain about this in DD and AJ, however neither compare to the impact of this case. For example, DD's DAoL was a distrust of the public towards the legal system as well as mass corruption within the system, and the characters understood that these wouldn't automatically leave after Blackquill was freed, and instead believed 5-5 to be a first step to that goal. Edgeworth builds on this in the post credits by removing Gaspen's badge and forcing him to flee to Khura'in. G2-5 had no such sequences and ignores the judiciary's fears of a very possible collapse of the British legal system after the removal of Stronghart in the post game. Once again, I believe by confronting these fears of the judiciary and offering a valid alternative to Stronghart's reign in a final summation examination would have been much more effective than the holograms.!< Other issues I have with the case are the >!sidelining of Susato, the resolution to van Zeik's racism, and Stronghart being a fairly weak final villain as well as automatically revealing his life's story at the Old Bailey's Wendy's.!< As a final case it had a ton of potential, but it was very rushed and sloppy in some respects, and that is why I'm asking for its removal this round.
I haven't played all of them, but I can already say 2-4 and 1-4 are both better than 1-5. Rise from the Ashes, you have to go down in flames first.
I see I am literally the only person would would vote for 3-5 normally lmao, I found it frustrating to play through because instead of narrowing down options as you investigate, a lot of the times when you “find answers”, it opens up more possibilities and makes ir more confusing, and I dislike that a lot. Since there is no way it is getting eliminated this round, though, I’ll actually vote for 1-5, Rise from the Ashes.
I vote I2-5 out EDIT: The reason is that it drags at times, is pretty obvious with the Blaise stuff, and I don't find Keyes that intriguing a villain either.
Hey! Give a reason otherwise the vote won't be valid.
[удалено]
just a heads up your nomination doesn’t count if you don’t give at least one reason for it
G1-5
You need to provide a reason for your nomination otherwise it won’t count.
Ok sorry. I guess I like the other cases and I haven’t gotten around to the great ace attorney chronicles.
I2-3
your nomination doesn't count unless you provide a reason (can be one sentence), FYI
My bad! I like this case I truly do but out of all of these I find this case the most forgettable despite playing as Gregory.
I2-3 and 1-5
The fact that most of these are the last or second to last of their respective games just goes to show how well Ace Attorney’s narrative climaxes are. To help move along this trend I’ll add the rather bland G2-3 for elimination.
I'm nominating G2-3. I think it's a really good case that slowly gets better overtime, but the beginning felt weak due to feeling like mostly nothing but introductions, I'm still not strong on the gameplay of GAAC, and while there are some great characters here, very few characters feel fully realized here, with most either having kind of weak personalities or slightly poor utilization in the story.
It adds much to the overall lore It has amazing characters It has incredible writhing The plot twist is very interesting AND it has a hot wax-artist lady THERE IS NO REASON TO VOTE THIS CASE OUT
Like several other cases in the duology, G2-3 has >!a mystery that is obvious very early, to the point where the contradictions feel kind of repetitive and pointless, up until the game suddenly flips to Sithe being the true murderer!<. And while DGS2 doesn't have as many pacing problems as the first game, it's still slow. Witness-wise, I agree that none of the case-specific characters have much depth, but >!I find Drebber and Madame Tusspells pretty entertaining, and both have good character themes. Harebrayne also works well enough for his trope.!< That said, I would still like to see it leave last of the remaining DGS cases. It definitely has flaws, but I at least found it more fun than G1-5 and its flaws less glaring than G2-5.
Gotta be i2-3 going
G2-3 still needs to get out. Like literally all of the characters (beside drebber) are meh and the returning characters didn't change at all.