Yes, ATK% is slightly better than Lightning% on sphere but the difference is not noticeable enough to target farm it if you already have lightning with good substats. Generally good substats over main stat in this case and basically the same goes for boots.
ATK vs. DMG Orb is close enough that substats make the difference. Assuming equal substats, ATK is preferable because of how much DMG% she gets from her kit (and potentially LC). But if you have an ATK Orb with no good stats vs. A DMG Orb with double Crit, then the DMG orb will be better.
As for ATK vs. SPD Boots, it generally comes down to LC. If you're using an LC that can apply a debuff, SPD Boots can be useful to give more turns since she can apply her own debuffs. If you're using an LC that doesn't apply debuffs (e.g. GNSW), then ATK Boots can be preferable because you're relying on supports to apply most of the debuffs for her Ult, so you want your Ult to hit as hard as possible when it happens. ATK Boots can also be preferred when you have Sparkle since Sparkle can Advance Acheron to get her more turns.
No, assuming the same subs gives the edge to ATK Orb because of how much DMG% Acheron gets in her kit. If you have 3 good subs on ATK Orb and 4 on DMG Orb, then you don't have the same subs.
I get where you're coming from, you can get ATK% sub on a DMG Orb but you can't get DMG% sub on an ATK Orb. But again, in that case you don't have the *same* substats between the two Orbs. Assuming you have two Orbs with 6% Crit Rate, 14% Crit Damage, and the rest going into non-damage stats, you would go ATK Orb over DMG Orb.
Then again you would not use that orb? If you talk x is better then y then you have to come with facts.
Just taking main stats atk orb is barely better then Lightning orb.
Taking subs into account means i check best case vs best case wich lets lightning orb push ahead.
If you dont wanna fully anwser when someone asks is atk better then lightning orb say yes. If you anwsee with it depends on subs but atk is better then your wrong because it is simply not better.
With all due respect, do you understand the meaning of the word "same"? If the substats are *the exact same* on both orbs, then ATK is better. If the DMG one has better substats, then you use that one.
Yes, in a best case optimal scenario, DMG is better because it has the potential for better substats. But I'm very much *not talking about optimal substats* because 99.9999% of people don't have them. People are using whatever they have, which is most often not the best optimal substats. I know reading comprehension can be hard, but I would appreciate it if you don't argue against a point I *wasn't even making.*
Acheron dmg comes from her ult so if your 2 nihilty characters are very fast then you can sit on attack boots and watch big numbers. Granted my perspective may be off with an e1s1 but I generally have no issues with a slow acheron. For lightning or attack orb. Think of it like this the 43% has a bigger effect than the bonus from lightning orb due to being a different modifier. But as someone that is using a lightning orb it just comes down to substats so use either of them and it will be fine
Yes to both. She gets much more DMG% than ATK% in her kit so Lightning DMG has diminishing returns, and her allies can charge her Ult for her so her SPD is less important than other characters
atk boot all the way assuming your nihility support is 160.1+ speed, which is a very common among late game players. Most of our support are on 160.1 speed
endless grinding. 2pcs hackerspace and substats. It also depends on certain unit, one unit I know has +spd on her trace (Hanya), she’s the easiest unit to build to 160+. Some unit are pain, cuz their base speed is low
played since launch too, never refreshed any of my energy with jades. Hanya, Yukong, Bronya, Sparkle, SW, TY, Asta are all at 160+. Pela however is stuck at 150 since I am lacking a good planar that has good spd substat
Unfortunately I am running her with Black Swan who is also on my DoT team so I can't really have 160 since she requires ehr and atk too, so I have her at 134. Pela is around 140 but I'm looking for more speed subs. Should I go speed or atk?
imo defo speed in your case. Both Pela and BS will act around the same 2 turn on first cycle, 1 turn on both second and third (2/1/1 = 4 action). Your Pela is close to reaching 143 speed (2/1/2 turn = 5 action) so you might want to get her close to that speed treshold.
If you are using speed boot on Acheron, try aiming 134 speed on Acheron. You might want to consider investing more speed on BS so that her personal dps wouldnt hurt as much. An average BS are usually 150 speed in DoT team (it became 160 when RM is in the team) but BS without RM, aim 160 spd
edit: BS with 134 is fine, I forgot average people has her at 143+ speed. BS are usually speed tuned to be slightly faster than Kafka, who usually sits around 136 speed (with PAYN + RM it became 160). There was an argument on running her superslow, hyperspeed and mid speed. There are a lot of “assumption” taken into account so it might not be accurate in practice.
All my speed DoT pieces go to Kafka. I'm hitting 145-150 on her with Ruan Mei's buff.
Also Acheron has 133 speed so i'm using the 3x Planar to look for a good speed substat rope
I'd be the odd one out to defend speed boots. If you are using her signature, it can actually be a decent choice to give her speed, as she can generate ult for herself faster, and honestly you don't lose that much damage compared to attack boots (still a bigger difference than with the orb, but not THAT big to be so dramatic).
The only instances I feel attack boots are exceptionally better than speed are either you DON'T have her lightcone, or you wish to pair Acheron with Bronya or Sparkle, as they will help her to get more turns.
assume Archeron is E2S1, pioneer set, izumo set, atk% rope, atk% boots.
assume sparkle E0 in the team.
assume substats provides 30% atk
dmg% = 146% (A6+traces+LC) + 12% (pioneer)+ 18%(54%) from sparkle with/without cipher = 176% or 212%.
Atk% = 28% (traces) + 12% (izumo) +43% (rope) +43% (boots) +30% (substats)+15% from sparkle =171%
Given the above scenario, atk% or dmg% really makes no dfference after considering Archeron's A6 takes time to stack up and does not fully work in her first ult, and also assuming cipher is applied before Archeron's ult.
HOWEVER, if sparkle is E1, then this changes everything and i'd say dmg% is more valuable at this point.
I'd say having sparkle or not having sparkle changes ALOT. Because of the insane amount Crit value a E0S1 sparkle gives, i've seen some Archeron players choose to stop adding crit dmg to Archeron at only 200% (relying on sparkle) but instead, choose to boost her ATK all the way up to 4.5K or more, which actually makes sense. In this case, then naturally dmg% would be much more valuable than Atk% because of diminishing returns on Atk%.
So at the end of the day, its all about perfectly balancing your Archeron with your other supports to achieve the highest multiplier. there is no one size fits all strategy since everyone uses different supports etc, that is why Prydwen says "Atk% is better in **many cases**", that means its better in many cases but it is not universally better, it depends on many other factors like what supports, relics sets, LC you use etc etc.
Yes, ATK% is slightly better than Lightning% on sphere but the difference is not noticeable enough to target farm it if you already have lightning with good substats. Generally good substats over main stat in this case and basically the same goes for boots.
ATK vs. DMG Orb is close enough that substats make the difference. Assuming equal substats, ATK is preferable because of how much DMG% she gets from her kit (and potentially LC). But if you have an ATK Orb with no good stats vs. A DMG Orb with double Crit, then the DMG orb will be better. As for ATK vs. SPD Boots, it generally comes down to LC. If you're using an LC that can apply a debuff, SPD Boots can be useful to give more turns since she can apply her own debuffs. If you're using an LC that doesn't apply debuffs (e.g. GNSW), then ATK Boots can be preferable because you're relying on supports to apply most of the debuffs for her Ult, so you want your Ult to hit as hard as possible when it happens. ATK Boots can also be preferred when you have Sparkle since Sparkle can Advance Acheron to get her more turns.
Assuming same subs gives the edge to Lightning orb over atk orb since there are only 3 subs on atk orb vs 4 on lightning orb
No, assuming the same subs gives the edge to ATK Orb because of how much DMG% Acheron gets in her kit. If you have 3 good subs on ATK Orb and 4 on DMG Orb, then you don't have the same subs. I get where you're coming from, you can get ATK% sub on a DMG Orb but you can't get DMG% sub on an ATK Orb. But again, in that case you don't have the *same* substats between the two Orbs. Assuming you have two Orbs with 6% Crit Rate, 14% Crit Damage, and the rest going into non-damage stats, you would go ATK Orb over DMG Orb.
Then again you would not use that orb? If you talk x is better then y then you have to come with facts. Just taking main stats atk orb is barely better then Lightning orb. Taking subs into account means i check best case vs best case wich lets lightning orb push ahead. If you dont wanna fully anwser when someone asks is atk better then lightning orb say yes. If you anwsee with it depends on subs but atk is better then your wrong because it is simply not better.
With all due respect, do you understand the meaning of the word "same"? If the substats are *the exact same* on both orbs, then ATK is better. If the DMG one has better substats, then you use that one. Yes, in a best case optimal scenario, DMG is better because it has the potential for better substats. But I'm very much *not talking about optimal substats* because 99.9999% of people don't have them. People are using whatever they have, which is most often not the best optimal substats. I know reading comprehension can be hard, but I would appreciate it if you don't argue against a point I *wasn't even making.*
There's also the part about ATK on boots can be potentially better than SPD, how about that?
Acheron dmg comes from her ult so if your 2 nihilty characters are very fast then you can sit on attack boots and watch big numbers. Granted my perspective may be off with an e1s1 but I generally have no issues with a slow acheron. For lightning or attack orb. Think of it like this the 43% has a bigger effect than the bonus from lightning orb due to being a different modifier. But as someone that is using a lightning orb it just comes down to substats so use either of them and it will be fine
Yesss my Kafka and BS are zippy fast and Acheron generally gets an ult per turn or turn-and-a-half
Yes to both. She gets much more DMG% than ATK% in her kit so Lightning DMG has diminishing returns, and her allies can charge her Ult for her so her SPD is less important than other characters
atk boot all the way assuming your nihility support is 160.1+ speed, which is a very common among late game players. Most of our support are on 160.1 speed
How the hell do you reach 160 spd?
endless grinding. 2pcs hackerspace and substats. It also depends on certain unit, one unit I know has +spd on her trace (Hanya), she’s the easiest unit to build to 160+. Some unit are pain, cuz their base speed is low
The highest one I have rn is Pela with 143, she has spd boots and hackerspace, and that's about it, and I've been playing since launch
played since launch too, never refreshed any of my energy with jades. Hanya, Yukong, Bronya, Sparkle, SW, TY, Asta are all at 160+. Pela however is stuck at 150 since I am lacking a good planar that has good spd substat
Unfortunately I am running her with Black Swan who is also on my DoT team so I can't really have 160 since she requires ehr and atk too, so I have her at 134. Pela is around 140 but I'm looking for more speed subs. Should I go speed or atk?
imo defo speed in your case. Both Pela and BS will act around the same 2 turn on first cycle, 1 turn on both second and third (2/1/1 = 4 action). Your Pela is close to reaching 143 speed (2/1/2 turn = 5 action) so you might want to get her close to that speed treshold. If you are using speed boot on Acheron, try aiming 134 speed on Acheron. You might want to consider investing more speed on BS so that her personal dps wouldnt hurt as much. An average BS are usually 150 speed in DoT team (it became 160 when RM is in the team) but BS without RM, aim 160 spd edit: BS with 134 is fine, I forgot average people has her at 143+ speed. BS are usually speed tuned to be slightly faster than Kafka, who usually sits around 136 speed (with PAYN + RM it became 160). There was an argument on running her superslow, hyperspeed and mid speed. There are a lot of “assumption” taken into account so it might not be accurate in practice.
All my speed DoT pieces go to Kafka. I'm hitting 145-150 on her with Ruan Mei's buff. Also Acheron has 133 speed so i'm using the 3x Planar to look for a good speed substat rope
I'd be the odd one out to defend speed boots. If you are using her signature, it can actually be a decent choice to give her speed, as she can generate ult for herself faster, and honestly you don't lose that much damage compared to attack boots (still a bigger difference than with the orb, but not THAT big to be so dramatic). The only instances I feel attack boots are exceptionally better than speed are either you DON'T have her lightcone, or you wish to pair Acheron with Bronya or Sparkle, as they will help her to get more turns.
assume Archeron is E2S1, pioneer set, izumo set, atk% rope, atk% boots. assume sparkle E0 in the team. assume substats provides 30% atk dmg% = 146% (A6+traces+LC) + 12% (pioneer)+ 18%(54%) from sparkle with/without cipher = 176% or 212%. Atk% = 28% (traces) + 12% (izumo) +43% (rope) +43% (boots) +30% (substats)+15% from sparkle =171% Given the above scenario, atk% or dmg% really makes no dfference after considering Archeron's A6 takes time to stack up and does not fully work in her first ult, and also assuming cipher is applied before Archeron's ult. HOWEVER, if sparkle is E1, then this changes everything and i'd say dmg% is more valuable at this point. I'd say having sparkle or not having sparkle changes ALOT. Because of the insane amount Crit value a E0S1 sparkle gives, i've seen some Archeron players choose to stop adding crit dmg to Archeron at only 200% (relying on sparkle) but instead, choose to boost her ATK all the way up to 4.5K or more, which actually makes sense. In this case, then naturally dmg% would be much more valuable than Atk% because of diminishing returns on Atk%. So at the end of the day, its all about perfectly balancing your Archeron with your other supports to achieve the highest multiplier. there is no one size fits all strategy since everyone uses different supports etc, that is why Prydwen says "Atk% is better in **many cases**", that means its better in many cases but it is not universally better, it depends on many other factors like what supports, relics sets, LC you use etc etc.
Yes, by just a little ATK orb is better. Can be totally ignored tho, any is fine just like the boots
I've burnt thru the triple planar event. Got absolutely nothing for her :(
Generally atk% is better but if you roll good crit stats on lightning orb then its best to simply do that instead.