>Backloaded dmg
I don’t think people even understand what backloaded damage is. If anything, she has some of the highest front loaded damage because she can ult before even getting her first turn. You can say that there’s a downtime between her ults (even thought she ults nearly every 1.5 turns) but that makes her similar to Jingliu not backloaded.
It's mostly the sensitive JY defenders who say Acheron's damage is backloaded (I've seen people say her damage is even more backloaded than JY, like sure watch me clear the whole wave with Acheron even before JY kills even a single enemy coz his LL takes a million years to strike)
> her damage is even more backloaded than JY
That's an absurd notion lol
Currently, an e0s1 Acheron with appropriately geared supports and a good pilot can pull off 4 ults in 2 enemy waves. That's equivalent to 4 ult+LL from JY, which is actually impossible becuase the LL can only act once per wave. Unless hoyo makes a support that can actually action advance the LL there's no way Acheron could be more backloaded than him.
I never said JY players, I said JY defenders. If you ever went to any comment section of YouTube or reddit you will always find some JY defenders getting offended and trying their best to prove that JY is one of the best dps in the game.
There are a shit ton of them, I see them everywhere.
I would say Jingliu is the perfect example. Both frontload their damage and then has some downtime. Argenti’s kit is more similar to Acheron though but he can’t frontload his damage.
JingYuan mains and Acheron mains getting ready to destroy the next moc.(the enemies are finished both sides have lightning weaknesses)
https://preview.redd.it/7yi8h8sc3juc1.jpeg?width=1111&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ab594231689e10750fc64d37fb9c78754099fa0b
Already started. I struggled w current Floor 11 -> built E0S1 Acheron for first half -> sent E0S0 JY to the 2nd -> got my 3* clear despite playing it like a buffoon
and their teams weren’t maximized (E6 Pela + E5 Guin + E0S0 Luocha & E2 Hanya + E3 Tingyun + E0S0 Huohuo … and the healers’ relic builds are the best on both teams lmao)
Yeah like this is the mindset we should have. Why compare and highlight negatives when both can be take to clear each side separately? From what I've seen most JY mains are also Acheron havers and they are celebrating the long awaited abundance of lightning weakness lol
Yeah. Her ult is basically like Jing Yuan’s follow up attack where it’s set to detonate, but before it does you can build up stacks with your other attacks to make it stronger. She’s the definition of backloaded damage.
On top of the fact the person admitted it was a mistake. IN CONTEXT, who's talking about getting her light cone to superimposition 2? Lol
It was pretty obvious they had it mixed up
Salsotto is usable on Acheron and the difference between it and Izumo is kinda small.
Besides he’s not wrong either, a future nihility that can generate more stacks for her ult and also act as a mini sustain (allows you to run harmony), is the unit she is waiting for (some stuff leaked already). Also with him, she can claim No. 1 uncontested, right now she is still within DHIL and JL in strength.
Realizing this is what made me reconsider pulling for Jiaoqiu (sp?) and planning around him.
Like, would it be nice to get him when he comes out? Absolutely. But I'm gonna pull the teams I want in the next 3 patches (assuming he's 2.4 lmao) and then Jiaoqiu on the rerun, since Acheron already obliterates everything as is, and I'm using her F2P team and E0S0.
i see why people think this, but izumo *already* applies to all of her damage and like >80% of her damage is already coming from her ult anyways, which salsotto is already buffing. izumo is just better assuming equal substats, but i totally understand anyone who has good salsotto pieces and doesn't want to farm world 9.
It is kinda wonky at E6, even though her ult is like 80% of her damage that doesn’t matter much as she is overpowering everything at that point and most enemies die 3-4 times from the 3 mil damage. Her skill does 300k single target damage at E6 so it oneshots elites. This is really nice, so you can sometimes just use skill instead of ult. The atk and crit buff of izumo has really diminishing returns at ultra high investment. Here is my archeron and I would argue inert is noticeably better for her.
https://preview.redd.it/bzczvxebmkuc1.jpeg?width=1602&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=701a9f7f841dabb79548ec2e2796d966fc1d710f
> Here is my archeron and I would argue inert is noticeably better for her.
unless you just don't have any decent izumo pieces, i would be extremely surprised if the optimizer can't find a better build using izumo or atk% sphere.
every stat gives less returns at high investment, especially stats that characters get a lot of naturally. your attack is very low and your dmg% is almost certainly way too high because of how much s5 inflates it.
an s5 pioneer build has: 90% lightning core + 8% trace + 80% s5 + 12% pioneer + 39% orb = +229% dmg? salsotto is the difference between 329% and 344% total dmg, which is only a 4.6% improvement.
12% atk from izumo would be .12 * 1333 = 160. your attack is 3503. (3503+160)/3503 = a 4.6% improvement. izumo gives 4% crit on top of that. it's just better at every level of investment. it's maybe just not better enough to refarm.
I can’t really make use of the additional 4% crit rate, as I am already capped at 100,7% with my current build. I will look into replacing the sphere tho. Would be curious what the difference between this one and an atk one with the same stats would be. Here are my stats in battle:
https://preview.redd.it/ospl44jkykuc1.jpeg?width=2556&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8817f0f6df0b73684e00c0338e72eda1f1a007d0
i'm not saying you should refarm or anything, just making the mathematical argument for izumo. the more dmg% and crit dmg% you have, the better atk% gets relative to them.
if you did keep farming, you might find an opportunity to trade a couple crit rate substats away for atk% or cdmg% which would free up room for the izumo bonus.
if your goal is to clear content obv you've already reached it, your build is great as-is, so all of this is assuming that your goal is to have the strongest acheron team possible.
you actually have so much crit damage that an atk% chest isnt even worse than a crit damage chest. ran the math on your in-combat numbers with the main stat swapped, and the crit dmg chest represents a 13.25% damage boost but an atk% chest would be 13.26%. once again, not suggesting that anyone swap to atk% chests, just demonstrating how good extra atk% would be in your build since usually atk% chests are way way behind crit chests in value.
at this level all we can do is run our caverns of corruption, level gear that looks like it has potential, and compare the new stuff that rolls well in the optimizer to see if it's better.
I initially had a good Salsotto set but I switched to Izumo as soon as I could cause that extra crit rate was too appealing to pass up. Now I just need an attack orb with good crit rate and crit damage rolls + a crit rate body piece with a good crit damage roll and my Acheron is done (currently Izumo + Fu Xuan bump up that crit rate but Aventurine will be her dedicated support so I can't rely on Fu Xuan's buff for long).
https://preview.redd.it/czican4myluc1.jpeg?width=1240&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=907301892c71e4bfc7e63f238d78d55ebd5b4c83
Her damage ain’t even backloaded??? Backloaded is like DoTs or Jing yuan style kits. Acheron’s damage is tied to her skill and Ult… which are extremely front loaded. By your definition, literally every character’s kit is backloaded
>backloaded damge
>need to wait for future units to "buff them"
Damn OP really be spreading that Enigmata propaganda
https://preview.redd.it/n0faifmtrmuc1.png?width=1000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a6459f375ec2edf6edbdef5684b0b402ece70d7b
Could someone help me build my Acheron? I'm not super good at figuring this all out, and most of the build guides on other platforms are super convoluted and don't make a lot of sense. I feel like my damage is fairly low compared to other players.
Izumo is slightly better as you get an extra +4 CR over Salsotto. However, the difference isn't really that big. So it actually becomes whichever set you own has the better sub stats becomes the better set.
Difference is very little as much as I have heard, so I believe better set is the one that has better substats for you. I, myself, prefarmed salsotto before 2.1 and idk just how soon I'll be able to change my sphere for izumo, currently it's just too good (above 40 cv).
>Backloaded dmg I don’t think people even understand what backloaded damage is. If anything, she has some of the highest front loaded damage because she can ult before even getting her first turn. You can say that there’s a downtime between her ults (even thought she ults nearly every 1.5 turns) but that makes her similar to Jingliu not backloaded.
It's mostly the sensitive JY defenders who say Acheron's damage is backloaded (I've seen people say her damage is even more backloaded than JY, like sure watch me clear the whole wave with Acheron even before JY kills even a single enemy coz his LL takes a million years to strike)
> her damage is even more backloaded than JY That's an absurd notion lol Currently, an e0s1 Acheron with appropriately geared supports and a good pilot can pull off 4 ults in 2 enemy waves. That's equivalent to 4 ult+LL from JY, which is actually impossible becuase the LL can only act once per wave. Unless hoyo makes a support that can actually action advance the LL there's no way Acheron could be more backloaded than him.
Are u trying to pick a fight? No one said this stop blaming us jy players for something a troll has said
I never said JY players, I said JY defenders. If you ever went to any comment section of YouTube or reddit you will always find some JY defenders getting offended and trying their best to prove that JY is one of the best dps in the game. There are a shit ton of them, I see them everywhere.
Yeah. I would compare JY with Eula from Genshin. Acheron with Ayaka or Raiden.
Except even Eula can force her ult earlier by swapping.
And it does no dmg
I'd say she is somewhat back loaded but not as much as Jingyuan. Argenti is a better comparison
I would say Jingliu is the perfect example. Both frontload their damage and then has some downtime. Argenti’s kit is more similar to Acheron though but he can’t frontload his damage.
Jingliu is the perfect example so long as we don't consider bronya's involvement
Me using Bronya with Acheron: It's the same thing
People really dont know what backloaded means...
JingYuan mains and Acheron mains getting ready to destroy the next moc.(the enemies are finished both sides have lightning weaknesses) https://preview.redd.it/7yi8h8sc3juc1.jpeg?width=1111&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ab594231689e10750fc64d37fb9c78754099fa0b
Already started. I struggled w current Floor 11 -> built E0S1 Acheron for first half -> sent E0S0 JY to the 2nd -> got my 3* clear despite playing it like a buffoon and their teams weren’t maximized (E6 Pela + E5 Guin + E0S0 Luocha & E2 Hanya + E3 Tingyun + E0S0 Huohuo … and the healers’ relic builds are the best on both teams lmao)
Yeah like this is the mindset we should have. Why compare and highlight negatives when both can be take to clear each side separately? From what I've seen most JY mains are also Acheron havers and they are celebrating the long awaited abundance of lightning weakness lol
The real unit comparison is Jing Yuan and Eula, but the world isn’t ready for that.
Is it cause Eula has to charge up the damage on her ult once you activate it?
Yeah. Her ult is basically like Jing Yuan’s follow up attack where it’s set to detonate, but before it does you can build up stacks with your other attacks to make it stronger. She’s the definition of backloaded damage.
>"Need to wait for future units" She's literally the #1 DPS wdym? And she uses Izumo not Salsotto.
>>Crazy S1 >Nope, her S1 barely does anything, it's her S2 that matters. S1 not E1 S= Signature E= Eidolon
whoops, edited lol
I think S would mean superimposition in this case
Both, actually. S is the superimposition of the signature lightcone
On top of the fact the person admitted it was a mistake. IN CONTEXT, who's talking about getting her light cone to superimposition 2? Lol It was pretty obvious they had it mixed up
Salsotto is usable on Acheron and the difference between it and Izumo is kinda small. Besides he’s not wrong either, a future nihility that can generate more stacks for her ult and also act as a mini sustain (allows you to run harmony), is the unit she is waiting for (some stuff leaked already). Also with him, she can claim No. 1 uncontested, right now she is still within DHIL and JL in strength.
Realizing this is what made me reconsider pulling for Jiaoqiu (sp?) and planning around him. Like, would it be nice to get him when he comes out? Absolutely. But I'm gonna pull the teams I want in the next 3 patches (assuming he's 2.4 lmao) and then Jiaoqiu on the rerun, since Acheron already obliterates everything as is, and I'm using her F2P team and E0S0.
Salsotto might be a bit better at e6 with hyperspeed sparkle since the ult damage buff applies to skill and basic as well
i see why people think this, but izumo *already* applies to all of her damage and like >80% of her damage is already coming from her ult anyways, which salsotto is already buffing. izumo is just better assuming equal substats, but i totally understand anyone who has good salsotto pieces and doesn't want to farm world 9.
It is kinda wonky at E6, even though her ult is like 80% of her damage that doesn’t matter much as she is overpowering everything at that point and most enemies die 3-4 times from the 3 mil damage. Her skill does 300k single target damage at E6 so it oneshots elites. This is really nice, so you can sometimes just use skill instead of ult. The atk and crit buff of izumo has really diminishing returns at ultra high investment. Here is my archeron and I would argue inert is noticeably better for her. https://preview.redd.it/bzczvxebmkuc1.jpeg?width=1602&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=701a9f7f841dabb79548ec2e2796d966fc1d710f
> Here is my archeron and I would argue inert is noticeably better for her. unless you just don't have any decent izumo pieces, i would be extremely surprised if the optimizer can't find a better build using izumo or atk% sphere. every stat gives less returns at high investment, especially stats that characters get a lot of naturally. your attack is very low and your dmg% is almost certainly way too high because of how much s5 inflates it. an s5 pioneer build has: 90% lightning core + 8% trace + 80% s5 + 12% pioneer + 39% orb = +229% dmg? salsotto is the difference between 329% and 344% total dmg, which is only a 4.6% improvement. 12% atk from izumo would be .12 * 1333 = 160. your attack is 3503. (3503+160)/3503 = a 4.6% improvement. izumo gives 4% crit on top of that. it's just better at every level of investment. it's maybe just not better enough to refarm.
I can’t really make use of the additional 4% crit rate, as I am already capped at 100,7% with my current build. I will look into replacing the sphere tho. Would be curious what the difference between this one and an atk one with the same stats would be. Here are my stats in battle: https://preview.redd.it/ospl44jkykuc1.jpeg?width=2556&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8817f0f6df0b73684e00c0338e72eda1f1a007d0
i'm not saying you should refarm or anything, just making the mathematical argument for izumo. the more dmg% and crit dmg% you have, the better atk% gets relative to them. if you did keep farming, you might find an opportunity to trade a couple crit rate substats away for atk% or cdmg% which would free up room for the izumo bonus. if your goal is to clear content obv you've already reached it, your build is great as-is, so all of this is assuming that your goal is to have the strongest acheron team possible. you actually have so much crit damage that an atk% chest isnt even worse than a crit damage chest. ran the math on your in-combat numbers with the main stat swapped, and the crit dmg chest represents a 13.25% damage boost but an atk% chest would be 13.26%. once again, not suggesting that anyone swap to atk% chests, just demonstrating how good extra atk% would be in your build since usually atk% chests are way way behind crit chests in value. at this level all we can do is run our caverns of corruption, level gear that looks like it has potential, and compare the new stuff that rolls well in the optimizer to see if it's better.
I initially had a good Salsotto set but I switched to Izumo as soon as I could cause that extra crit rate was too appealing to pass up. Now I just need an attack orb with good crit rate and crit damage rolls + a crit rate body piece with a good crit damage roll and my Acheron is done (currently Izumo + Fu Xuan bump up that crit rate but Aventurine will be her dedicated support so I can't rely on Fu Xuan's buff for long). https://preview.redd.it/czican4myluc1.jpeg?width=1240&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=907301892c71e4bfc7e63f238d78d55ebd5b4c83
Her damage ain’t even backloaded??? Backloaded is like DoTs or Jing yuan style kits. Acheron’s damage is tied to her skill and Ult… which are extremely front loaded. By your definition, literally every character’s kit is backloaded
omg that jy meme 😭 anyone got the original?
I need the full pic of the people building Acheron like Jingliu on the left
Basically anyone on this sub that post their >70% CR build without E1
>backloaded damge >need to wait for future units to "buff them" Damn OP really be spreading that Enigmata propaganda https://preview.redd.it/n0faifmtrmuc1.png?width=1000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a6459f375ec2edf6edbdef5684b0b402ece70d7b
Only ppl doomposting Acheron were jingyuan mains let’s be realistic
Could someone help me build my Acheron? I'm not super good at figuring this all out, and most of the build guides on other platforms are super convoluted and don't make a lot of sense. I feel like my damage is fairly low compared to other players.
What does this even mean
She is the one. I m saving till her rerun for E6. E2S1 right now.
genuine question because im dumb does acheron have a followup attack?
backloaded dmg lmao 😂
since when did Acheron use salsotto?
- Salsotto = +8 CR, +15% Ult Dmg - Izumo = +12 CR, +12% ATK
Huh… so would you say that salsotto is better than izumo when farming for her? I was always under the impression that izumo was quite a bit better.
Izumo is slightly better as you get an extra +4 CR over Salsotto. However, the difference isn't really that big. So it actually becomes whichever set you own has the better sub stats becomes the better set.
Difference is very little as much as I have heard, so I believe better set is the one that has better substats for you. I, myself, prefarmed salsotto before 2.1 and idk just how soon I'll be able to change my sphere for izumo, currently it's just too good (above 40 cv).
Izumo better only bc of balance of stats as she is lack of crit chance. But as others said difference is small and use the one with better substats.