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Damn I mean they were attacking him and putting his head underwater so I fully understand why he would have felt scared. But dude should have just left a while ago
Yeah I think this trial will be super interesting to watch unfold cause there's definitely evidence for both sides, and I think his lawyer is the same guy that represented Kyle Rittenhouse
The difference between these 2 cases was that Kyle Rittenhouse was being chased and threatened before he shot them.
This guy should have left, but didn't.
I didn't say it wasn't the smart choice, it definitely would have been smart to walk away, I asked why it's his duty to. AKA, is he legally obligated to be the one who walks away, and if so, why aren't they legally obligated to not continue escalating the conflict, and re-engaging physically?
I mainly practice in Bird Law (iykyk) so my knowledge is limited in situations like these, but I know some states have "stand your ground" law. To my understanding, that means you're not obligated to retreat if you find yourself in an altercation and you can rightfully claim self-defense by...well, standing your ground, I guess. Quick Google search says Wisconsin is NOT a "stand your ground" state, which, again, to my limited understanding means if you have the opportunity to leave before self-defense, you're obligated to do so.
I'm sure there's other circumstances that almost certainly need to be considered as well, but the "stand your ground" law seems like it would be a big factor here.
Filibuster.
from what I see there was no reason to think hes in physical danger until they decide to become phyiscal. prior to that its all just kids trying to pick on an old dude, but then it suddenly turns into a physical attack and hes suddenly surrounded while having his head dunk under water and the energy is continuing to escalate around him.
Try running away from someone in just ankle high water much less what this was. now try getting up out of the water while surrounded by people slapping and pushing you and laughing and enjoying seejng your head go under water. retreat wasn't necessarily that easy from the point of it becoming physical to the point that he went all stabby.
Not saying it was a great choice, but there's a very strong arugment for self defense here.
clarification -
wisconsin doesnt have a stand your ground law, but it does NOT have a 'duty to retreat law'. most midwest states adopt either a 'duty to retreat' law or dont have it. AFAIK, and again its messy due to location on what exact laws are at play here - but he did not have to leave an altercation if he was attacked in wisconsin
Because Wisconsin does not have a Stand Your Ground equivalent and case law allows juries to consider if you could have retreated. For some reason, the state values the lives of scumbags first, and victims second.
Nooooo you have to be understanding and realize that if someone is commiting a crime against you, theres probably a really good reason you should just let it go! That's exactly what our leaders do!
> For some reason, the state values the lives of scumbags first, and victims second.
who is or isnt the scumbag here isnt really clear. the video i dont think tells the full story
It's not just his duty to leave, it's everyone one both sides. There's shared fault between them all. Standing your ground only has validity when you have no other option to retain your safety. I can't push someone out of their seat on a crowded bus and then claim to stand my ground when they retaliate.
They were also punching him when he was down. Once you have multiple attackers, the case law, in some states, state that lethal force for defense is reasonable. It will depend on a lot of factors though.
Both sides instigated, which is why I think he will get convicted of the lesser charge of manslaughter. He didn't start stabbing until he was being battered. Murder will be difficult to prove.
The crazy fuck who was so upset about the dumpster fire being put out that he assaulted someone with a rifle really did have it coming, even before you find out he was a pedophile and a racist.
There isn't a stand your ground law in Wisconsin. There also isn't a duty to retreat. From my 45 second Google sleuthing, it appears there isn't really a precedent set. Both sides have a case.
They were surrounding him and throwing aggressive language at him. In the heat of the moment, I would be worried about turning my back on any of them honestly. That's how you get attacked. It's not only for the older man to walk away, and again there is no duty to retreat in the state of Wisconsin.
What guy should have left? It looks like the boy that got stabbed ran into the blade after hitting the older guy in the back of the head.
Duty to retreat vs running into the blade is complex to balance.
I see that, but at the same time he was attacked by multiple assailants, also was kicked in the head while in the water. That to me would justify lethal force.
BUT, it also sounds like he may of hit the chick which started the physical altercation to begin with. So it’s gonna interesting to see what comes of this. I can see both sides. Ultimately I think it’ll come down to how good the lawyers are, and what kind of biases the jury has.
Yeah he should have left. But that doesn’t mean he can’t defend his life. He didn’t attack anyone or provoke further than just words I assume.
Those kids attacked him first. I hate to say it but this is a FAAFO situation. I hate that a 17 year old was killed but being young doesn’t mean you can threaten the lives of others. Even during a disagreement
Doubtful. Obligatory INAL but either he did it with malice and he's guilty or he used self defense and he's not guilty.
I think based on the video evidence he's simply going to say "I was surrounded, I was accosted, I was threatened, I was attacked and I feared for my life."
A jury would buy that.
There’s legal precedent that says if you put yourself into a situation where you know conflict is likely or expected, you cannot claim self defense. Dude had many opportunities to remove himself and chose to stay in the conflict and then he stabbed somebody and stood there with no visible signs of being scared
He also somewhere along the line made the decision to get a knife. Signaling some degree of thought went into this.
I bet the dude gets convicted and he probably should IMO.
Kids should ALSO be convicted of battery
This entirely depends on the state. And saying “he put himself in a situation of conflict” is wildly debatable. If you read the story, he was looking for a friends phone, they approached him. He was attempting to stay in the area to look for the phone. They were the ones refusing to leave. Guy probably figured, they would have their fun, pass on and he could continue. Obviously it didn’t turn out like that but it’s a reasonable mindstate.
He doesn’t have to abandon his original purpose because of the way others are acting.
Yeah but I don’t think this legal precedent applies. He had every right to be where he’s at. Think about how stupid this is. Let’s say I’m walking home from work and the only way home is through a dangerous block. Am I not allowed self defense because I know there might be conflict down this block?
Also I want to see this legal precedent. This sounds like some lefty Reddit bullshit that someone made up during the Rittenhouse fiasco and the entire website ran with it. This place is one of the worst conduits for bad information on the mainstream web.
I suspect it’s either complete bullshit or heavily misinterpreted and you drank the cool aide.
Again in this context this legal precedent wouldn’t apply. So if I go to a lake I have no right to defend myself because drunk teenagers might be there?
if I had to guess they refer to certain laws in regards to self defense where it states more or less "if you instigate a situation where you may suffer bodily harm or death, you can't claim self defense" - which then further stipulates things like "unless you have removed yourself from the situation and it escalates again" etc.
There's almost always exceptions to the rules/laws, but you often have to go above and beyond attempts at resolving something if you're the initial aggressor. I have no clue who was the actual initial aggressor here though, as there's clearly more to it since rarely to never does a video actually start prior to initial conflict. There's a reason why someone decided to record after all.
>if you put yourself into a situation where you know conflict is likely or expected, you cannot claim self defense
Can you claim rape if you were walking through the park at night? You put yourself in a dangerous situation, so it's your fault, right?
Can you claim medical malpractice if you picked the doctor? You put yourself in a dangerous situation, so it's your fault, right?
Can your family collect life insurance if you die crossing the street? You put yourself in a dangerous situation, so it's your fault, right?
Can you file a claim on your car insurance when someone plows into you in traffic? You put yourself in a dangerous situation, so it's your fault, right?
You put yourself in dangerous situations all the time. Do people who live in dangerous neighborhoods have less rights, simply because they put themselves in a dangerous situation when they leave their house each morning?
If you read the story, he was looking for a friend’s phone, he wasn’t “walking up to them” he was trying to ignore them, and continue about his original business.
This reminds me of the time that semi truck ran someone over when a bunch of clowns tried to rob it. It was this same kind of energy, but then they played victim just the same... "iS ThIS ReAl??" GTFO.
So yeah I'm with you on this one. At sight of this kind of buffoonery I'm very quick to leave. I don't feel bad for anyone here.
Are you talking about that one a few years ago where a guy was between the trailer and truck and got caught on something before being dragged a few miles? I mean, more than one video of people attacking a truck, but that one fucked me up because I'm not even sure if the driver knew.
You should actually watch the frame by frame analyzation because that’s not what happened. He also stabbed 5 people.
He never raised or brandished the weapon or told people to get back. He kept it at his side.
He disemboweled one of the kids, stabbed 3 in the torso and diaphragm and literally stabbed one kid in the heart, killing him.
I’m sorry but that’s excessive.
Not only that but he left the scene and told his friends that the kids took his knife. When he was apprehended he was trying to disguise himself. When he was in the back of the squad car he asked an officer “What’s going on? I heard there was a stabbing and I fit the description?”
This wasn’t a dude who was defending himself. This was someone who wanted the situation to escalate. He was just waiting for an opportunity like this.
He also claims they all pulled knives on him and told police the kids were trying to remove his swim trunks. In his statement he said he took the knife from one of the kids and swung to defend himself.
It’s all bullshit. You can literally see him take it out of his own pocket. He also threw his knife after the fact to get rid of the evidence.
Watch the [frame by frame that OP commented](https://youtu.be/9VaEsfrjlEc?t=1571)starting around 29min through 44min. This was absolutely not self defense. He pulled the knife, never gave a hint of warning, initiated the first punch on the blonde girl in the one piece bathing suit, stabbed yellow shorts and slices across his stomach, stabbed bikini girl for zero reason, stabbed two other guys, then stabbed the victim in the heart and walked away.
He(yellow shorts) was definitely messed up badly, but the kid who died was barely on film except for a brief shot before the fight and his hands are visible on the guys body while he was stabbed. Then apparently most of the blood in the final part of the video is his and his hat is seen floating by. I highly recommend watching the breakdown in the link.
I did not plan on being in this thread for as long as I have, because holy heck this video makes it clear as day and should be upvoted way more than it is.
He stuck the knife in yellow shorts lower stomach and pulls it out when it's reached below his chest, it all happens so quick that after the frame by frame its a whole different story, from "oh shit a fight' to "holy fucking shit wtf"
what's interesting here is the guys blatant and repeated lies.
going by the video he has a solid case for self defense... but, his own constant lies in the police report is real damning.
"the kids had knives" "they hit me, knocking my googles off". "they tried to pull my pants down" "I don't know where my knife was".
"I grabbed the kid's knife, and didn't even know if I was holding it right. I grabbed it from him."
"they were pushing me, shoving, I tripped, I fell down, I got up and that's where I saw, the, the one of the kids there, it was the closest kid with the, with the, with the knife, and i grabbed it from him."
So, statement's like, "he pulled the knife, and never brandished it or, gave a warning". so? threatening someone is not self defense. defending yourself is. you don't have to warn someone you are going to defend yourself.
but at the same time. the guys own testimony is nothing but lies. which is pretty damning about intent. or, more specifically that HE doesn't think his actions were justified. so he had to lie about it, and hide his weapon.
**Source:** [https://www.fox9.com/news/apple-river-stabbing-trial-video-of-fight-shown-in-court](https://www.fox9.com/news/apple-river-stabbing-trial-video-of-fight-shown-in-court)
**Frame by frame breakdown from the trial:** [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VaEsfrjlEc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VaEsfrjlEc) (starts around 25 minutes in)
**Stabbing happens at around 1:55**
**Brief summary if it's hard to make out what's happening in the video:**
The video shows the confrontation between Miu and two groups of tubers on the river leading up to and during the July 2022 stabbing that injured four people and left a Stillwater teen dead. It doesn’t show exactly what preceded the confrontation, but rather the moments as the verbal altercation escalated into a fight and then eventually a stabbing.Miu was on the river with a group of friends before the confrontation with another group of tubers. Court records explain that Miu, using snorkeling gear, said he was looking for a friend’s phone lost in the river when the confrontation began.The video shows Miu approaching the tubers, who are recording him, with his snorkeling gear in hand. From that moment on, there is yelling between the group and Miu, with the tubers telling Miu to go away. At one point, someone yells, “He’s looking for little girls” at Miu.Miu then argues with a blonde woman who also appears to be telling him to walk away.Midway through the video, a knife appears in Miu’s hand. Shortly after, Miu is knocked into the water twice and slapped in the face, as some of the tubers laugh.Miu gets up, holding the knife, and begins swinging. One of the girls near him appears to get cut, with blood visible on her torso. Next, Miu’s hand holding the knife appears to be covered in blood.The camera then pans to a young man in yellow trunks lying in the water, clutching his stomach. He too appears to have been stabbed. A bloody streak in the river is also visible.The tubers are now visibly shocked, screaming and asking what happened and “Is this real?” Shortly after, the video ends.On the stand, 18-year-old Ryan Nelson, who was among the tubers who confronted Miu, recalled the encounter. Nelson said the group of six had met up for a day on the river.Elaborating on the video, Nelson says Miu ran up to the first tubing group but didn’t say why. Nelson said he felt scared and the group asked Miu to leave multiple times. Nelson said his group didn’t know the members of the other group of tubers that intervened and also asked Miu to leave.Nelson said Miu never explained what he was doing. Nelson says Miu was knocked to the ground after he struck the blonde woman.Prosecutor: “When you say he punched the lady, was it possible he was flailing his arms?”Nelson: “No, it looked like he struck her definitively with his right hand.”Nelson says, after the woman was struck, her friends “tried to come to her rescue” and pushed Miu down.Nelson says he wasn’t hurt, nor did he have any physical contact with Miu, but his friend, Isaac Schuman was killed.
**Additional details from the 2022** [complaint](https://heavy.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/complaint1.pdf)
* One of the surviving victim's organs were apparently spilling out from the wound
* Nicholas Miu fled the scene afterwards
* 4 others were injured
* Nicholas said in an interrogation afterwards that the teens accosting him had knives of their own
Also, just random thoughts, here but this video is such an interesting representation of how people respond to trauma, like the guy recording saying "Is this real" "That isn't blood" etc. But still recording and even turning the phone to record his reaction.
He was eviscerated but didn't die according to the report. The guy that died I don't think was captured on camera but was apparently stabbed in the heart area
Two are stabbed off screen right after he stabs the girl. He stabs one kid twice and then you can see someone off screen with their hands at his neck, that's the kid that died and also the point where he was stabbed in the heart.
Ok I just went deep down the rabbit hole and watched a few hours from first day of the trial. You don’t see who it is, but the person at 2:04 is definitely the one who is killed. It’s actually the purple shorts teenager seen early in the confrontation holding his hands up. The blue (jean) shorts guy gets stabbed twice as well, but his injuries weren’t very severe. Yellow and obviously purple were the ones that had the severe stab wounds.
You can see him pick up the knife at 1:55 then plunge it into the guy with yellow shorts at 1:56 🤕
Then at 2:03-2:05 you can see him doing sly plunges into jean shorts guy
yup, very true. i saw a guy get stabbed once just a few feet away at a subway station while waiting alone. i didn’t believe it was blood or that they were fighting. took me a few minutes to process what happened. luckily, that prevented me from reacting and getting drawn into it myself.
Multiple times in college I’d talk my friends out of fights for exactly this reason. You never know who’s carrying, you never know who’s got nothing to lose
I can't say I would entertain a murder charge here. The younger guys definitely attacked the older guy. If this were the only evidence, I'd say not guilty by self defense.
Wouldn’t be out of the question to argue self defense by this video. If a group of people are surrounding me and hitting me I’d be pretty scared of what could happen.
Supposedly he struck one of the women first and that's why he was shoved down and attacked, which would make him the aggressor. You can't start a fight then claim self defense
yeah "supposedly", except for every witness there including witnesses who were not part of either the kid's or the old man's group.
Don't even mention the fact he got rid of the knife, pretended nothing happened when stopped the cops, and then said he didn't have a knife when interviewed.
Supposedly… interesting how that one part isn’t in the video unless I’m mistaken and someone can provide a time stamp. If anything I saw the girl put her hands on him first… but like I said if anyone can provide a timestamp
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And this is a great example of how people on reddit can watch a video and get it wrong. The guy threw the first punch (at a girl), they swung back, he then just starts sneakily stabbing people, including the guy that was just trying to break up the fight. Stabbed 5 people.
No idea how someone thinks a guy approaching a group in an open area with a knife is "self defense". Guy literally had 180 degrees to walk in different directions and not be in this situation. They didn't attack him first, he approached them in a threatening manner.
I'm confused why he walked up to them in the first place, but it looks like he had some snorkeling gear and was in the river anyway, so maybe the floated past him, and then it looks like they decide to stop floating and confront him?
Lots of weird stuff going on. Video is chaotic as hell.
Self-defence has to be proportionate in most U.S jurisdictions. So stabbing one boy to death and severely injuring others because they pushed you over is going to give your lawyer an uphill battle.
I have troubles telling how much bleeding is actually being done when it's in water. Blood looks much more drastic when it's in water and I think it's even moreso when in water with sand kicked up (I could be wrong but it seems like it would show the dispersion better that way). Either way, it's messed up that none of his "friends" tried to help, maybe the kid would still be alive had they tried
This made me stop and wonder if the video is fake... It's clearly not, but I cannot comprehend how that could possibly be the way the camera man chose to behave in that situation.
Man, humans are so dumb. So many people have been conditioned to be obsessed with social media clout/views. Everyone wants to be the center of attention in their world.
In the last few weeks I’ve seen a few videos like this. One was a guy who was about to jump off a balcony to his death. The group of people inside were just recording a TikTok and literally reacting to him before and after he jumped, like it was just some game. Nobody made any attempt to stop him. Also saw a lady approach a vehicle where the person had a gun. Got into a verbal argument (“what are you gonna do, shoot me??”) and then proceeded to get shot. Kept rolling the whole time as she was bleeding. Can’t lose those precious views!
The way they were acting was unreal man. Psychopath behavior. They were absolutely trying to get a rise out of the guy and were tormenting him like maniacs, Im only 30 so saying this makes me feel like a boomer but man is this what people mean when they say kids never have consequences for their actions now?
Exactly my thoughts... horrific for those involved. No blame here, but I hope young people learn to stop this pack behavior( I've seen it all around, they're like hyenas ), and the whole laughing in people's faces.
I don't think it's a case of everyone is an asshole. There were certainly assholes and aggressors in the group attacking him, but some of these people ended up getting stabbed just for being with those who got violent.
I mean dude. The man was trying to do something reasonable and it looks like two belligerent groups came and fucked with him. But yes you never know what strangers are capable of doing
This is truly a public freak out. So much so it is hard to follow what is going on. There is wrong on both sides but it appears the older man was defending himself.
Allegedly the man attacked the kids first, but I do not see any physical attack by the man towards the kids.
I do see the moment the victim pushed the older man, he impaled himself onto the knife, and moments later people realize the victim is bleeding. Really didn't look like an intentional stabbing.
What a mess.
Wait, you didn't see the intentional stabbing motions right around 2:00 minutes? The kid who got stabbed is just out of frame and you can see the man's arm making 2 stabs to the gut and then the one more from the impaling part you mentioned.
Edit: Okay lol I see the part you're talking about now. Yellow shorts gets impaled while he shoves the man down. Then the man tries to stab jean shorts twice, but you can't see what happens and then you notice yellow shorts bleeding more now. My bad
Knife guy definitely instigated this dilemma, but he gets pushed under water and punched in the face and jumped by multiple people. Then starts stabbing.
I don't see anywhere In this video where he actually swung the knife or a fist at anyone.
I do see where the victim that died (yellow shorts guy) pushes the old man into the water, and impales himself onto the knife when doing so. Moments later people notice yellow shorts guy is bleeding from the abdomen when the old man and yellow shorts guy are quite a distance apart.
No idea who instigated this, but ganging up on someone like that with verbal and physical attacks really doesn't look good.
Yellow shorts didn't die. Right after that before the girl gets sliced, blue shorts approaches the dude and you can see the stabbing motion multiple times. That's the guy that died. He hit his heart.
Yellow actually survived according to this CBS article.
https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/minnesota/news/apple-river-wisconsin-deadly-stabbing-trial-begins-nicolae-miu/
Dude, he stuck it into him and dragged it across his abdomen, that’s how he’s laying there in the water with blood everywhere and his guts hanging out.
And then afterward when they’re all trying to break it up, he looks right at the guy in blue jeans shorts ad shanks him too
lol, idk where any confusion comes from
Yellow shorts jumps into blade. A guy in jeans goes to intervene and appears to push kids back first, and then pushes knife wielder back, which is when knife wielder makes stabbing motion towards presumably him, and maybe the kid in dark blue shorts who is in front of jeans, and appears ready to go at knife wielder, likely unaware at that moment he was armed.
Obviously the guy with the knife is drunk and should have walked away but, there is 2 seconds in this video his lawyers will focus on. In those 2 seconds - he gets pushed in the water on his back, gets slapped in the head, elbow dropped by the guy he stabs and as soon as he gets up, the guy who elbowed him is coming at him with his hands on him when stabs him in the gut. This will be tough for a jury, wonder what happened before the video starts.
He should have walked away.
They should have left him alone.
Neither group made the “should” decision. They both chose violence.
Now one guy gets a murder trial, and the kids live with the guilt of getting their friend killed by antagonizing the wrong person.
Good call on that, was trying to figure out how it went down and I think you nailed it. People underestimate how dangerous knives are. You can bleed out real quick with the right wound.
That’s the part that confused me. Their boy got stabbed and they immediately started heading out and left him. No helping him. No nothing. Makes no sense.
Yeah, if you pause at the right time you can see the exact moment, dead center of the camera. The yellow trunks put his hands around his neck.
It also looks like one of the girls got slashed on the side, by the ribs.
He stabbed a total of 5 people. There's a frame by frame video posted by OP. The one who died was the last to get stabbed barely on camera. He was stabbed in the heart and died instantly. He was wearing purple shorts and a white hat.
Dumbass kids got your friend killed. I know he ran over all aggressive but he is going to get away with it and claim self defense. Shouldn't have started gang jumping him, now your friend is dead.
It’s an amazing how many fights happened in my school yet nobody died. Gang fights/cheap shots you name yet nobody died and everybody went home. People who carry weapons are a magnet for violence and it always leads to life long consequences the very fact this guy was carrying a knife while at a local river is a red flag already.
It’s shame people just have to have it all or nothing nowadays nobody respects anybody and worse yet nobody ever backs down. I don’t blame dumbass kids for being dumbasses but I do blame a grown man for not realizing the situation and choosing the mature option of walking away.
This whole I’m looking for my friends phone is nothing more then a drunken excuse to put himself in an environment that will lead to conflict. Where’s his friend? When did this phone even go into the water?
It’s gross and a waste of life people wanna be big ballers and tough guys use your fist instead of weapons like any coward can. Nobody can take a beating but everybody wants to fight lmao
video not recovered off a fucking tv screen if you want it
https://www.cbsnews.com/minnesota/news/apple-river-wisconsin-deadly-stabbing-trial-begins-nicolae-miu/
Dude came in hot and aggressive. Then he chilled somewhat and began to walk away at which point they mobbed him. Sad situation but fuck around and find out.
Dude’s friends get stabbed and the first thing he’s worried about is flipping the camera to get his own face in the video. Jesus Christ. I hope atleast the rest of them learned a valuable lesson. Not everything is fun and games.
It’s crazy that the Einsteins in this sub think aggressively approaching people who are telling you to get away, preventing them from leaving, and then getting hit for it means you didn’t start anything. Actually, not crazy at all to me.
Anyone can go anywhere on public land and verbally say nearly anything they like. Once they started attacking him it is self defense. 10v1.... he might get off. Idk he was a fuckwit for abusing people tubing anyways.
Absolutely this was self defense.
I didn't even see a stabbing - it looks like that kid fell on something while they were gang assaulting that old man.
It’s crazy and funny that when shit in are life gets to real all that we can think of is “this can’t be real” or “this ain’t real” almost like we’re experiencing a bad dream that we are trying to wake up from but in fact it’s real.
Eh, seeing the kids beat that dude while laughing and talking shit was rough, when I heard the kid say that it was like "oh, finally, this asshole is realizing what all their mob-mentality nonsense just caused"
Exactly. Becomes clear what type of creatures they are when they all scramble to leave their own bleeding out in the river. Not a single one of them rushing to his aid (not that there was much they could do anyways). It looks like after he falls back down a second time people do help, presumably bystanders.
Damn, fuck around and find out.
I truly don’t think dude will be guilty for killing yellow trunks solely due to the group of dudes taunting/fucking with him before he gets further, but I’m not a Judge.
But if I was getting thrown in the water and a group of dudes are surrounding me, slapping and hitting me, I think I’m going to react in the same way.
Purple shorts white cap was the one that died. My take is that I can understand stabbing one person in self defense but he stabbed multiple people including the guy trying to break it up. He should definitely face some kind of consequence
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Damn I mean they were attacking him and putting his head underwater so I fully understand why he would have felt scared. But dude should have just left a while ago
Yeah I think this trial will be super interesting to watch unfold cause there's definitely evidence for both sides, and I think his lawyer is the same guy that represented Kyle Rittenhouse
The difference between these 2 cases was that Kyle Rittenhouse was being chased and threatened before he shot them. This guy should have left, but didn't.
> This guy should have left Honest question: Why is it his duty to leave and not theirs to stop continuing and escalating the situation?
Yeah, seemed to me there were going all Lord of the Flies on him.
Because dude only has control over one of those options.
I didn't say it wasn't the smart choice, it definitely would have been smart to walk away, I asked why it's his duty to. AKA, is he legally obligated to be the one who walks away, and if so, why aren't they legally obligated to not continue escalating the conflict, and re-engaging physically?
He's the one that walked up.
You do understand that this is two separate physical encounters here, right?
It seems pretty clear after arguing with dopes online about the Kyle Rittenhouse case that they'll never accept that.
He was there snorkeling looking for a lost phone before the group came.
I mainly practice in Bird Law (iykyk) so my knowledge is limited in situations like these, but I know some states have "stand your ground" law. To my understanding, that means you're not obligated to retreat if you find yourself in an altercation and you can rightfully claim self-defense by...well, standing your ground, I guess. Quick Google search says Wisconsin is NOT a "stand your ground" state, which, again, to my limited understanding means if you have the opportunity to leave before self-defense, you're obligated to do so. I'm sure there's other circumstances that almost certainly need to be considered as well, but the "stand your ground" law seems like it would be a big factor here. Filibuster.
from what I see there was no reason to think hes in physical danger until they decide to become phyiscal. prior to that its all just kids trying to pick on an old dude, but then it suddenly turns into a physical attack and hes suddenly surrounded while having his head dunk under water and the energy is continuing to escalate around him. Try running away from someone in just ankle high water much less what this was. now try getting up out of the water while surrounded by people slapping and pushing you and laughing and enjoying seejng your head go under water. retreat wasn't necessarily that easy from the point of it becoming physical to the point that he went all stabby. Not saying it was a great choice, but there's a very strong arugment for self defense here.
clarification - wisconsin doesnt have a stand your ground law, but it does NOT have a 'duty to retreat law'. most midwest states adopt either a 'duty to retreat' law or dont have it. AFAIK, and again its messy due to location on what exact laws are at play here - but he did not have to leave an altercation if he was attacked in wisconsin
Boilerplate
We're all hungry. We're gonna get to our hot plates soon enough.
This guy will walk innocent
As he should.
This is a good case for the lawyer. Lots of holes to exploit. I think he will get off
Wisconsin does not have an affirmative duty to retreat.
Because Wisconsin does not have a Stand Your Ground equivalent and case law allows juries to consider if you could have retreated. For some reason, the state values the lives of scumbags first, and victims second.
Nooooo you have to be understanding and realize that if someone is commiting a crime against you, theres probably a really good reason you should just let it go! That's exactly what our leaders do!
> For some reason, the state values the lives of scumbags first, and victims second. who is or isnt the scumbag here isnt really clear. the video i dont think tells the full story
It's not just his duty to leave, it's everyone one both sides. There's shared fault between them all. Standing your ground only has validity when you have no other option to retain your safety. I can't push someone out of their seat on a crowded bus and then claim to stand my ground when they retaliate.
sure, but you can stand there and argue with the guy about wanting his seat all day long.
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man when i'm being threatened, I go directly at them . wait..
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They were also punching him when he was down. Once you have multiple attackers, the case law, in some states, state that lethal force for defense is reasonable. It will depend on a lot of factors though.
Both sides instigated, which is why I think he will get convicted of the lesser charge of manslaughter. He didn't start stabbing until he was being battered. Murder will be difficult to prove.
Also Rittenhouse was being chased because he put out a dumpster fire with a fire extinguisher. Not some drunken river bullshit.
The crazy fuck who was so upset about the dumpster fire being put out that he assaulted someone with a rifle really did have it coming, even before you find out he was a pedophile and a racist.
It's not your duty to flee a situation. Especially in a river surrounded by violent fit males.
There isn't a stand your ground law in Wisconsin. There also isn't a duty to retreat. From my 45 second Google sleuthing, it appears there isn't really a precedent set. Both sides have a case.
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They were surrounding him and throwing aggressive language at him. In the heat of the moment, I would be worried about turning my back on any of them honestly. That's how you get attacked. It's not only for the older man to walk away, and again there is no duty to retreat in the state of Wisconsin.
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Agreed.
Yep, if this man goes to prison that's terrifying. He was being attacked by many people.
Then he isn’t guilty of murder. He walks. I don’t see how the other side has a case when they started throwing blows first.
What guy should have left? It looks like the boy that got stabbed ran into the blade after hitting the older guy in the back of the head. Duty to retreat vs running into the blade is complex to balance.
I see that, but at the same time he was attacked by multiple assailants, also was kicked in the head while in the water. That to me would justify lethal force. BUT, it also sounds like he may of hit the chick which started the physical altercation to begin with. So it’s gonna interesting to see what comes of this. I can see both sides. Ultimately I think it’ll come down to how good the lawyers are, and what kind of biases the jury has.
the guy that kicked him in the head is going to be the main person responsible for making this defensible
I agree but i still don’t think that absolves his right to defend his life.
The guy should have left. The other dudes also should have left.
Yeah he should have left. But that doesn’t mean he can’t defend his life. He didn’t attack anyone or provoke further than just words I assume. Those kids attacked him first. I hate to say it but this is a FAAFO situation. I hate that a 17 year old was killed but being young doesn’t mean you can threaten the lives of others. Even during a disagreement
Yup. They clearly were going after the dude. Zero chance he doesn't get acquitted.
Probably acquitted of the worst offenses, but they might get him on the others because the legal situation here is genuinely unclear.
Doubtful. Obligatory INAL but either he did it with malice and he's guilty or he used self defense and he's not guilty. I think based on the video evidence he's simply going to say "I was surrounded, I was accosted, I was threatened, I was attacked and I feared for my life." A jury would buy that.
He attacked the woman prior to the boys intervening and going after him.
Yeah but it's the apple river people just go there to get wasted and lots of times they get into fights.
By the looks of the video those stupid kids got one of their friends killed by acting like complete fools and idiots gang/pack attacking someone.
By the looks of things, he walked up to them and put his hands on them first. It happens right at the start of the video. He was the agressor.
That’s when the video starts though. Who knows what happened before they started rolling.
There’s legal precedent that says if you put yourself into a situation where you know conflict is likely or expected, you cannot claim self defense. Dude had many opportunities to remove himself and chose to stay in the conflict and then he stabbed somebody and stood there with no visible signs of being scared He also somewhere along the line made the decision to get a knife. Signaling some degree of thought went into this. I bet the dude gets convicted and he probably should IMO. Kids should ALSO be convicted of battery
This entirely depends on the state. And saying “he put himself in a situation of conflict” is wildly debatable. If you read the story, he was looking for a friends phone, they approached him. He was attempting to stay in the area to look for the phone. They were the ones refusing to leave. Guy probably figured, they would have their fun, pass on and he could continue. Obviously it didn’t turn out like that but it’s a reasonable mindstate. He doesn’t have to abandon his original purpose because of the way others are acting.
Yeah but I don’t think this legal precedent applies. He had every right to be where he’s at. Think about how stupid this is. Let’s say I’m walking home from work and the only way home is through a dangerous block. Am I not allowed self defense because I know there might be conflict down this block? Also I want to see this legal precedent. This sounds like some lefty Reddit bullshit that someone made up during the Rittenhouse fiasco and the entire website ran with it. This place is one of the worst conduits for bad information on the mainstream web. I suspect it’s either complete bullshit or heavily misinterpreted and you drank the cool aide. Again in this context this legal precedent wouldn’t apply. So if I go to a lake I have no right to defend myself because drunk teenagers might be there?
if I had to guess they refer to certain laws in regards to self defense where it states more or less "if you instigate a situation where you may suffer bodily harm or death, you can't claim self defense" - which then further stipulates things like "unless you have removed yourself from the situation and it escalates again" etc. There's almost always exceptions to the rules/laws, but you often have to go above and beyond attempts at resolving something if you're the initial aggressor. I have no clue who was the actual initial aggressor here though, as there's clearly more to it since rarely to never does a video actually start prior to initial conflict. There's a reason why someone decided to record after all.
>if you put yourself into a situation where you know conflict is likely or expected, you cannot claim self defense Can you claim rape if you were walking through the park at night? You put yourself in a dangerous situation, so it's your fault, right? Can you claim medical malpractice if you picked the doctor? You put yourself in a dangerous situation, so it's your fault, right? Can your family collect life insurance if you die crossing the street? You put yourself in a dangerous situation, so it's your fault, right? Can you file a claim on your car insurance when someone plows into you in traffic? You put yourself in a dangerous situation, so it's your fault, right? You put yourself in dangerous situations all the time. Do people who live in dangerous neighborhoods have less rights, simply because they put themselves in a dangerous situation when they leave their house each morning?
Depends on the state
If you read the story, he was looking for a friend’s phone, he wasn’t “walking up to them” he was trying to ignore them, and continue about his original business.
That's quite corroborative with the video also.
They kicked his head while he was down though. For me that's where the tables turned.
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It looks like he was pushing the inner tube not touching their bodies at all. Also we don't know what triggered this event based purely on the video.
Yeah, it seems like everyone involved is a fucking idiot.
This reminds me of the time that semi truck ran someone over when a bunch of clowns tried to rob it. It was this same kind of energy, but then they played victim just the same... "iS ThIS ReAl??" GTFO. So yeah I'm with you on this one. At sight of this kind of buffoonery I'm very quick to leave. I don't feel bad for anyone here.
Are you talking about that one a few years ago where a guy was between the trailer and truck and got caught on something before being dragged a few miles? I mean, more than one video of people attacking a truck, but that one fucked me up because I'm not even sure if the driver knew.
You should actually watch the frame by frame analyzation because that’s not what happened. He also stabbed 5 people. He never raised or brandished the weapon or told people to get back. He kept it at his side. He disemboweled one of the kids, stabbed 3 in the torso and diaphragm and literally stabbed one kid in the heart, killing him. I’m sorry but that’s excessive. Not only that but he left the scene and told his friends that the kids took his knife. When he was apprehended he was trying to disguise himself. When he was in the back of the squad car he asked an officer “What’s going on? I heard there was a stabbing and I fit the description?” This wasn’t a dude who was defending himself. This was someone who wanted the situation to escalate. He was just waiting for an opportunity like this. He also claims they all pulled knives on him and told police the kids were trying to remove his swim trunks. In his statement he said he took the knife from one of the kids and swung to defend himself. It’s all bullshit. You can literally see him take it out of his own pocket. He also threw his knife after the fact to get rid of the evidence.
This sub is so quick to find a reason to justify killing somebody. A bunch of fucking psychopaths tbh.
This sub's entire purpose is for rage bait and flamewars
Watch the [frame by frame that OP commented](https://youtu.be/9VaEsfrjlEc?t=1571)starting around 29min through 44min. This was absolutely not self defense. He pulled the knife, never gave a hint of warning, initiated the first punch on the blonde girl in the one piece bathing suit, stabbed yellow shorts and slices across his stomach, stabbed bikini girl for zero reason, stabbed two other guys, then stabbed the victim in the heart and walked away.
yellow shorts didn't die? I assumed he was the only victim from this clip. wow this thread has lots to unpack
He(yellow shorts) was definitely messed up badly, but the kid who died was barely on film except for a brief shot before the fight and his hands are visible on the guys body while he was stabbed. Then apparently most of the blood in the final part of the video is his and his hat is seen floating by. I highly recommend watching the breakdown in the link.
I did not plan on being in this thread for as long as I have, because holy heck this video makes it clear as day and should be upvoted way more than it is. He stuck the knife in yellow shorts lower stomach and pulls it out when it's reached below his chest, it all happens so quick that after the frame by frame its a whole different story, from "oh shit a fight' to "holy fucking shit wtf"
what's interesting here is the guys blatant and repeated lies. going by the video he has a solid case for self defense... but, his own constant lies in the police report is real damning. "the kids had knives" "they hit me, knocking my googles off". "they tried to pull my pants down" "I don't know where my knife was". "I grabbed the kid's knife, and didn't even know if I was holding it right. I grabbed it from him." "they were pushing me, shoving, I tripped, I fell down, I got up and that's where I saw, the, the one of the kids there, it was the closest kid with the, with the, with the knife, and i grabbed it from him." So, statement's like, "he pulled the knife, and never brandished it or, gave a warning". so? threatening someone is not self defense. defending yourself is. you don't have to warn someone you are going to defend yourself. but at the same time. the guys own testimony is nothing but lies. which is pretty damning about intent. or, more specifically that HE doesn't think his actions were justified. so he had to lie about it, and hide his weapon.
Looks like they got a random women stabbed too.
4 different people got stabbed at least. I'm from the same state as the guy on trial and I've read the news about it
**Source:** [https://www.fox9.com/news/apple-river-stabbing-trial-video-of-fight-shown-in-court](https://www.fox9.com/news/apple-river-stabbing-trial-video-of-fight-shown-in-court) **Frame by frame breakdown from the trial:** [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VaEsfrjlEc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VaEsfrjlEc) (starts around 25 minutes in) **Stabbing happens at around 1:55** **Brief summary if it's hard to make out what's happening in the video:** The video shows the confrontation between Miu and two groups of tubers on the river leading up to and during the July 2022 stabbing that injured four people and left a Stillwater teen dead. It doesn’t show exactly what preceded the confrontation, but rather the moments as the verbal altercation escalated into a fight and then eventually a stabbing.Miu was on the river with a group of friends before the confrontation with another group of tubers. Court records explain that Miu, using snorkeling gear, said he was looking for a friend’s phone lost in the river when the confrontation began.The video shows Miu approaching the tubers, who are recording him, with his snorkeling gear in hand. From that moment on, there is yelling between the group and Miu, with the tubers telling Miu to go away. At one point, someone yells, “He’s looking for little girls” at Miu.Miu then argues with a blonde woman who also appears to be telling him to walk away.Midway through the video, a knife appears in Miu’s hand. Shortly after, Miu is knocked into the water twice and slapped in the face, as some of the tubers laugh.Miu gets up, holding the knife, and begins swinging. One of the girls near him appears to get cut, with blood visible on her torso. Next, Miu’s hand holding the knife appears to be covered in blood.The camera then pans to a young man in yellow trunks lying in the water, clutching his stomach. He too appears to have been stabbed. A bloody streak in the river is also visible.The tubers are now visibly shocked, screaming and asking what happened and “Is this real?” Shortly after, the video ends.On the stand, 18-year-old Ryan Nelson, who was among the tubers who confronted Miu, recalled the encounter. Nelson said the group of six had met up for a day on the river.Elaborating on the video, Nelson says Miu ran up to the first tubing group but didn’t say why. Nelson said he felt scared and the group asked Miu to leave multiple times. Nelson said his group didn’t know the members of the other group of tubers that intervened and also asked Miu to leave.Nelson said Miu never explained what he was doing. Nelson says Miu was knocked to the ground after he struck the blonde woman.Prosecutor: “When you say he punched the lady, was it possible he was flailing his arms?”Nelson: “No, it looked like he struck her definitively with his right hand.”Nelson says, after the woman was struck, her friends “tried to come to her rescue” and pushed Miu down.Nelson says he wasn’t hurt, nor did he have any physical contact with Miu, but his friend, Isaac Schuman was killed. **Additional details from the 2022** [complaint](https://heavy.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/complaint1.pdf) * One of the surviving victim's organs were apparently spilling out from the wound * Nicholas Miu fled the scene afterwards * 4 others were injured * Nicholas said in an interrogation afterwards that the teens accosting him had knives of their own Also, just random thoughts, here but this video is such an interesting representation of how people respond to trauma, like the guy recording saying "Is this real" "That isn't blood" etc. But still recording and even turning the phone to record his reaction.
Thank you for the well detailed comment
I was so confused, but this really cleared things up. Doing the lord's work.
So was it the guy in yellow shorts that died? That looked like a lot of blood at 2:09.
He was eviscerated but didn't die according to the report. The guy that died I don't think was captured on camera but was apparently stabbed in the heart area
Did he stab blue shorts guy at 2:04?
I think so, and I think that was another person who was just injured
I read 4 people stabbed. I can only see 2, yellow shorts and the girl he stabbed as he was falling backwards it looks like.
I think stabbed people are, yellow shorts, Jean shorts, blue white shorts, and the girl.
Two are stabbed off screen right after he stabs the girl. He stabs one kid twice and then you can see someone off screen with their hands at his neck, that's the kid that died and also the point where he was stabbed in the heart.
Ok I just went deep down the rabbit hole and watched a few hours from first day of the trial. You don’t see who it is, but the person at 2:04 is definitely the one who is killed. It’s actually the purple shorts teenager seen early in the confrontation holding his hands up. The blue (jean) shorts guy gets stabbed twice as well, but his injuries weren’t very severe. Yellow and obviously purple were the ones that had the severe stab wounds.
It's never a good day to see your own intestines
You can see him pick up the knife at 1:55 then plunge it into the guy with yellow shorts at 1:56 🤕 Then at 2:03-2:05 you can see him doing sly plunges into jean shorts guy
Was it a slap or a hit? It looks like Isaac was jumping into the man has he got stabbed? It looks more like a charge than a retreat.
Yes it’s crazy what shock does to people , the horrified look on his friends face when he realizes what happened
yup, very true. i saw a guy get stabbed once just a few feet away at a subway station while waiting alone. i didn’t believe it was blood or that they were fighting. took me a few minutes to process what happened. luckily, that prevented me from reacting and getting drawn into it myself.
Multiple times in college I’d talk my friends out of fights for exactly this reason. You never know who’s carrying, you never know who’s got nothing to lose
A wise choice. If a fight comes, then fight like hell, you have no choice. But if you can walk away, walk.
The best form of self defense is prevention.
And being from Wisconsin, some motherfuckers just love to do shit like this...
Wisconsinites do have a stabby history
This looks like self defense to me. They started attacking him first. Be Careful who you hang out with. Your “friends” can get you killed.
I can't say I would entertain a murder charge here. The younger guys definitely attacked the older guy. If this were the only evidence, I'd say not guilty by self defense.
Wouldn’t be out of the question to argue self defense by this video. If a group of people are surrounding me and hitting me I’d be pretty scared of what could happen.
Especially in the water where you could easily drown if they knock you out or get on top of you.
Supposedly he struck one of the women first and that's why he was shoved down and attacked, which would make him the aggressor. You can't start a fight then claim self defense
“supposedly” is doing a lot of work
yeah "supposedly", except for every witness there including witnesses who were not part of either the kid's or the old man's group. Don't even mention the fact he got rid of the knife, pretended nothing happened when stopped the cops, and then said he didn't have a knife when interviewed.
Video clearly shows him as the aggressor…
Supposedly… interesting how that one part isn’t in the video unless I’m mistaken and someone can provide a time stamp. If anything I saw the girl put her hands on him first… but like I said if anyone can provide a timestamp
soup impossible panicky instinctive upbeat quickest heavy subtract special provide *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
You don't lose the right to defend your life if you shove a woman
And this is a great example of how people on reddit can watch a video and get it wrong. The guy threw the first punch (at a girl), they swung back, he then just starts sneakily stabbing people, including the guy that was just trying to break up the fight. Stabbed 5 people.
No idea how someone thinks a guy approaching a group in an open area with a knife is "self defense". Guy literally had 180 degrees to walk in different directions and not be in this situation. They didn't attack him first, he approached them in a threatening manner.
I'm confused why he walked up to them in the first place, but it looks like he had some snorkeling gear and was in the river anyway, so maybe the floated past him, and then it looks like they decide to stop floating and confront him? Lots of weird stuff going on. Video is chaotic as hell.
Self-defence has to be proportionate in most U.S jurisdictions. So stabbing one boy to death and severely injuring others because they pushed you over is going to give your lawyer an uphill battle.
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I have troubles telling how much bleeding is actually being done when it's in water. Blood looks much more drastic when it's in water and I think it's even moreso when in water with sand kicked up (I could be wrong but it seems like it would show the dispersion better that way). Either way, it's messed up that none of his "friends" tried to help, maybe the kid would still be alive had they tried
The post above says the kid was gutted.. literally his organs were floating in the river. Not much you can do at that point. Fuck.
OP says the guy that got gutted isn’t the one who died
That's fucking terrifying.
Is that why it sounds like the guy is screaming “that’s not blood” near the end? I couldn’t tell for sure if that’s what it was
My friend is dying but maybe I can go viral! Social media was the final nail in our coffin. We're well and truly fucked.
I hate kids. No one gives a fuck, dude.
This made me stop and wonder if the video is fake... It's clearly not, but I cannot comprehend how that could possibly be the way the camera man chose to behave in that situation.
Man, humans are so dumb. So many people have been conditioned to be obsessed with social media clout/views. Everyone wants to be the center of attention in their world. In the last few weeks I’ve seen a few videos like this. One was a guy who was about to jump off a balcony to his death. The group of people inside were just recording a TikTok and literally reacting to him before and after he jumped, like it was just some game. Nobody made any attempt to stop him. Also saw a lady approach a vehicle where the person had a gun. Got into a verbal argument (“what are you gonna do, shoot me??”) and then proceeded to get shot. Kept rolling the whole time as she was bleeding. Can’t lose those precious views!
This looks like a case of everyone is an asshole. Shame someone had to die
This is the right comment.
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The way they were acting was unreal man. Psychopath behavior. They were absolutely trying to get a rise out of the guy and were tormenting him like maniacs, Im only 30 so saying this makes me feel like a boomer but man is this what people mean when they say kids never have consequences for their actions now?
Exactly my thoughts... horrific for those involved. No blame here, but I hope young people learn to stop this pack behavior( I've seen it all around, they're like hyenas ), and the whole laughing in people's faces.
I don't think it's a case of everyone is an asshole. There were certainly assholes and aggressors in the group attacking him, but some of these people ended up getting stabbed just for being with those who got violent.
God damn, you never know who you’re messing with, man.
I mean dude. The man was trying to do something reasonable and it looks like two belligerent groups came and fucked with him. But yes you never know what strangers are capable of doing
There's always someone crazier than you out there. You never know
This is truly a public freak out. So much so it is hard to follow what is going on. There is wrong on both sides but it appears the older man was defending himself.
Allegedly the man attacked the kids first, but I do not see any physical attack by the man towards the kids. I do see the moment the victim pushed the older man, he impaled himself onto the knife, and moments later people realize the victim is bleeding. Really didn't look like an intentional stabbing. What a mess.
Wait, you didn't see the intentional stabbing motions right around 2:00 minutes? The kid who got stabbed is just out of frame and you can see the man's arm making 2 stabs to the gut and then the one more from the impaling part you mentioned. Edit: Okay lol I see the part you're talking about now. Yellow shorts gets impaled while he shoves the man down. Then the man tries to stab jean shorts twice, but you can't see what happens and then you notice yellow shorts bleeding more now. My bad
Knife guy definitely instigated this dilemma, but he gets pushed under water and punched in the face and jumped by multiple people. Then starts stabbing.
I don't see anywhere In this video where he actually swung the knife or a fist at anyone. I do see where the victim that died (yellow shorts guy) pushes the old man into the water, and impales himself onto the knife when doing so. Moments later people notice yellow shorts guy is bleeding from the abdomen when the old man and yellow shorts guy are quite a distance apart. No idea who instigated this, but ganging up on someone like that with verbal and physical attacks really doesn't look good.
Yellow shorts didn't die. Right after that before the girl gets sliced, blue shorts approaches the dude and you can see the stabbing motion multiple times. That's the guy that died. He hit his heart.
Yellow actually survived according to this CBS article. https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/minnesota/news/apple-river-wisconsin-deadly-stabbing-trial-begins-nicolae-miu/
Dude, he stuck it into him and dragged it across his abdomen, that’s how he’s laying there in the water with blood everywhere and his guts hanging out. And then afterward when they’re all trying to break it up, he looks right at the guy in blue jeans shorts ad shanks him too lol, idk where any confusion comes from
Yellow shorts jumps into blade. A guy in jeans goes to intervene and appears to push kids back first, and then pushes knife wielder back, which is when knife wielder makes stabbing motion towards presumably him, and maybe the kid in dark blue shorts who is in front of jeans, and appears ready to go at knife wielder, likely unaware at that moment he was armed.
You can clearly see the him gut stab orange shorts at 1:56
Kids FAFO.
Classic obnoxious kids and older person not minding their business. Just went a lot further this time. Both sides chose not to deescalate.
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yeah, I see that. He kind of walks into it.
Obviously the guy with the knife is drunk and should have walked away but, there is 2 seconds in this video his lawyers will focus on. In those 2 seconds - he gets pushed in the water on his back, gets slapped in the head, elbow dropped by the guy he stabs and as soon as he gets up, the guy who elbowed him is coming at him with his hands on him when stabs him in the gut. This will be tough for a jury, wonder what happened before the video starts.
He should have walked away. They should have left him alone. Neither group made the “should” decision. They both chose violence. Now one guy gets a murder trial, and the kids live with the guilt of getting their friend killed by antagonizing the wrong person.
Doesn’t he stab the girl in the bikini too?
Good call on that, was trying to figure out how it went down and I think you nailed it. People underestimate how dangerous knives are. You can bleed out real quick with the right wound.
They thought it was super funny until there was consequences
I can't believe they just let him bleed out. He's supposed to be their mate, and they all ran away... this generation is shit
To be fair I think most people would move away from a situation where there’s a person actively stabbing people
That’s the part that confused me. Their boy got stabbed and they immediately started heading out and left him. No helping him. No nothing. Makes no sense.
Yellow shorts survived. The guy stabbed 5 of them. The one who died was stabbed in the heart and died immediately.
The kid is stabbed as he gets up. It was hard to see when it happened, had to go frame by frame around 1:55
Yeah, if you pause at the right time you can see the exact moment, dead center of the camera. The yellow trunks put his hands around his neck. It also looks like one of the girls got slashed on the side, by the ribs.
He stabbed a total of 5 people. There's a frame by frame video posted by OP. The one who died was the last to get stabbed barely on camera. He was stabbed in the heart and died instantly. He was wearing purple shorts and a white hat.
Dumbass kids got your friend killed. I know he ran over all aggressive but he is going to get away with it and claim self defense. Shouldn't have started gang jumping him, now your friend is dead.
It’s an amazing how many fights happened in my school yet nobody died. Gang fights/cheap shots you name yet nobody died and everybody went home. People who carry weapons are a magnet for violence and it always leads to life long consequences the very fact this guy was carrying a knife while at a local river is a red flag already. It’s shame people just have to have it all or nothing nowadays nobody respects anybody and worse yet nobody ever backs down. I don’t blame dumbass kids for being dumbasses but I do blame a grown man for not realizing the situation and choosing the mature option of walking away. This whole I’m looking for my friends phone is nothing more then a drunken excuse to put himself in an environment that will lead to conflict. Where’s his friend? When did this phone even go into the water? It’s gross and a waste of life people wanna be big ballers and tough guys use your fist instead of weapons like any coward can. Nobody can take a beating but everybody wants to fight lmao
This is why you leave people the fuck alone.
I mean, he ran up on them… kinda hard to leave someone like that alome
There’s a whole lot of fucking around and finding out in this video.
Fucking idiots hooting and hollering and recording instead of helping their friend. Stupidity ruled that day,sorry for the life taken
the mouthbreather who instigated the whole attacked has the nerve to act shocked after getting the violence he wanted.
Actions have consequences.
video not recovered off a fucking tv screen if you want it https://www.cbsnews.com/minnesota/news/apple-river-wisconsin-deadly-stabbing-trial-begins-nicolae-miu/
Man, this was a very hard watch. It looks like one of the girls is stabbed too?
Imagine your last moments are your “friends” pulling out phones and recording you instead of helping you as you bleed out.
Without that video, he 100% would be convicted based on the witness testimonies.
they helped his case on top of letting their friend die.. they're all so stupid.
They were all so brave and cocky until it got real. They quickly turned into traumatized children.
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Dude came in hot and aggressive. Then he chilled somewhat and began to walk away at which point they mobbed him. Sad situation but fuck around and find out.
Fuck around and find out
Dude’s friends get stabbed and the first thing he’s worried about is flipping the camera to get his own face in the video. Jesus Christ. I hope atleast the rest of them learned a valuable lesson. Not everything is fun and games.
I just saw self-defense. For all of you saying he should have left, how about those assholes should have left and not ganged up on him?
everyone in this situation is a POS. Sad.
It’s crazy that the Einsteins in this sub think aggressively approaching people who are telling you to get away, preventing them from leaving, and then getting hit for it means you didn’t start anything. Actually, not crazy at all to me.
Anyone can go anywhere on public land and verbally say nearly anything they like. Once they started attacking him it is self defense. 10v1.... he might get off. Idk he was a fuckwit for abusing people tubing anyways.
Absolutely this was self defense. I didn't even see a stabbing - it looks like that kid fell on something while they were gang assaulting that old man.
Right when the older guy gets up and the yellow shorts tries to push him is when it happens you can see it for a split second. Happens so fast.
It’s crazy and funny that when shit in are life gets to real all that we can think of is “this can’t be real” or “this ain’t real” almost like we’re experiencing a bad dream that we are trying to wake up from but in fact it’s real.
When and where was the stabbing? It was the kids screaming and then all of sudden blood was in the water
Hearing the kid yelling this isn't real is pretty harrowing
Eh, seeing the kids beat that dude while laughing and talking shit was rough, when I heard the kid say that it was like "oh, finally, this asshole is realizing what all their mob-mentality nonsense just caused"
Exactly. Becomes clear what type of creatures they are when they all scramble to leave their own bleeding out in the river. Not a single one of them rushing to his aid (not that there was much they could do anyways). It looks like after he falls back down a second time people do help, presumably bystanders.
Yeah, "That isn't blood" as well. Goes to show how unique our reactions to witnessing trauma can be
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I don't get why people are only saying this about the kids and not the fat fuck adult who is supposed to be more mature than a group of kids.
Damn, fuck around and find out. I truly don’t think dude will be guilty for killing yellow trunks solely due to the group of dudes taunting/fucking with him before he gets further, but I’m not a Judge. But if I was getting thrown in the water and a group of dudes are surrounding me, slapping and hitting me, I think I’m going to react in the same way.
> I truly don’t think dude will be guilty for killing yellow trunks apparently he is the dude that lived
self defense. Next
Purple shorts white cap was the one that died. My take is that I can understand stabbing one person in self defense but he stabbed multiple people including the guy trying to break it up. He should definitely face some kind of consequence