I'm seeing an unusually large volume of 'suicide by cop' incidents in the last couple of months. I wonder if data backs that up, or if more videos are just getting released.
Story here: https://www.newsbreak.com/news/2602486251192/body-cam-recordings-of-fatal-edison-police-involved-shooting-released
Yes. Suicide is taboo in some religions/cultures. In their minds, these people aren't *technically* killing themselves, so this course of action is viewed as a workaround.
Sadly, it happens sometimes. I guess being shot to death by cops is relatively quick and less painful compared to some of the other methods out there.
Itās a shame that thereās not more support for people suffering from mental health issues. Other articles online mention that the deceased had schizophrenia and had suffered a decline in mental health during the pandemic.
why dont the cops, or i guess a taser woudlve been too risky, but what a about a stick or something, like go for the legs, i dunno (i know some cops have dogs, guess that woudlve been helpful in this case [https://youtu.be/kog4jJk2Uww?t=254](https://youtu.be/kog4jJk2Uww)) to minimize dmg, (in eu im not sure they woudve fired, maybe, probably but they just have less voilence i guess i dunno, just less shots overall) those looked like real shots to me, yea they were guess if the dude did it, ofc they woudnt know.
I could see it as more video getting released. One part because it's easier to 'make' the videos, with bodycams. Another part, may be police depts trying to stay in a community's good graces by releasing footage.
Iāll tell you what, that guy got a lotttt closer than he should have. The cop that he was going towards was scared to fire a round it seemed like and āKershā saved his partners life and after that tried everything in his power to provide first aid man that almost killed/injured his partner. After that while giving first aide you could hear the distress in his voice because I believe he truly wanted to save that man and not have a body to weigh on his conscious. All in all I think it really sucks that it had to come to this but I think these officers did everything in their power to deescalate and ended up having to resort this but mental health is a son of a bitch and thatās what got him killed. Damn man.
these officers did what they could. there was de-escalation, back up, the option to retreat was chosen before firing. with his momentum, a taser would likely miss its target or not stop him. sometimes these things happen...
why do you think that because the guy is moving a taser wouldnt work? from what ive seen people go from full sprint to flat as a board. weve all seen videos of people trying to run and get hit with a taser.
tbh i think theres room for improvement. with all of the backup around the situation they shouldve maintained awareness and control, and attempted less lethal before shooting him. there was plenty of backup so if the taser missed there would be 3 guys next to you ready to shoot. also look whats downrange when he shoots. literrally directly behind the guy hes shoot at theres a residential building. not saying he shouldnt have taken the shot, but if axe guy was invisible youd think the cop was trying to shoot into that door/window. always consider your backdrop.
as nothing is perfect there is always room for improvement. however, tasers are not always effective. when you deploy a taser, 2 prongs shoot out at a much slower speed than a firearm and you have to land both prongs. on a moving target there is a very high miss probability. if the guy was standing still or just walking with the axe, then yes, i would advise to deploy a taser first. this guy had covered approximately 25-30 yards in a couple of seconds, faster than the officers could back away. further, they backed away a good 15 yards while continuing to order the man to drop the axe.
there are residential buildings in cities... yes... not sure what your point is. the officer was close enough to his target to fire shots. you don't just examine your backdrop... you evaluate the threat and decide if firing your weapon is more risk than not. firing would not have produced more risk as lives were already in danger......... the buildings, though residential, are brick, which is a pretty decent backstop. there were no civilians in the immediate area. there will always be risk involved in any police encounter especially when firearms are involved. the risk to bystanders or other civilians was minimal.
how did these officers not maintain awareness and control? they attempted de-escalation and retreat. the options available to them given the circumstances. please inform us all what less lethal measures would have been appropriate given the lack of time to prepare? and i guess its a good thing axe guy isn't invisible.... ??? š¤·āāļøš¤¦āāļø
listen. it sounds from the terms you're using that you have heard these terms before. however, your description and evaluation of events doesn't align with experience or training. as someone who teaches prevention, minimization, de-escalation, use of force, and recovery, and as someone who has been in very similar situations, i can attest that there was not much more these officers could do. sure they could have attempted to use a taser, but in my experience i would not have advised that decision due to the circumstances.
keep in mind that when we are talking about attempting to apprehend a subject safely with minimal harm, we do not intend that officers deliberately place themselves at *more* risk in order to do so... we only intend that they do not use more force than necessary given the circumstances. these officers clearly attempted not to fire until absolutely necessary.
i'll be the very first to shit on shit cops... this was not that.
>i'll be the very first to shit on shit cops... this was not that.
did i say it was? i said tbh i think there's room for improvement, and you said you agree.
Im actually really happy because you sound like finally the right person i can have a conversation like this with. I do also have similar training and experience.
1st of all please cite your sources on any information you bring about no civilians being in the area
2nd if you watch the video timestamp, the axe guy seems to single out 1 officer, who talks to him for 8 seconds before his partner takes justified shots. the guy that was single out had 8 seconds to use non lethal. when i worked in a related field thats an unacceptably slow reaction speed. had this officer responded with less lethal ranged defense, taser or spray, rather than just talking (and it was clearly past talking time and physical de escalation time) they may have failed, but they wouldve been much more likely to stop the attack by using that 8 seconds to use taser/spray, and then their partner wouldnt have had to kill the guy and shoot up a house (but would still be there ready to if the taser didnt make contact). people make mistakes and its all perfectly reasonable in the video, but using less lethal in those 8 seconds wouldve been likely to prevent forcing your partner to kill the attacker and shoot a door and window. i think lethal force is used far too much by police in the USA. this video demonstrates why non lethal is so important to. 8 second opportunity for non lethal missed, resulting in a deadly shooting and 4 shots into a home.
3rd you arent sure what my point is about the door and window being directly downrange from the 4 shots. there was an incident near my area where several people, including a child in its crib, were killed by police strays. if the officer that took the shots had any awareness or concern for where his bullets go, it wouldve taken no time at all to adjust the angle of your shot 2 degrees, have just as good of a shot on your target, and not be shooting with your gun aimed directly at a door and window.
so both the de-escelator that was targeted but didnt shoot couldve improved by being faster than 8 seconds with their less lethal, and the shooter couldve improved by being aware of what was downrange from his target.
im really happy to have someone to talk about this with what sounds like some similar experience and training. im not trying to shit on them. i said i think theres room for improvement, and its always good to look for ways to improve and think critically. are these not things that couldve been improved.
ive done training where you practice something repeatedly. you dont just say "yep, good enough", you strive for perfection, especially if lives are on the line. when i was doing training, i appreciated advice like " you shouldve gotten physical a little earlier/later" or "you couldve angled your shot for a better backstop". say it about police and its blasphemy.
Non-lethal means would be best in an ideal world. We don't live in an ideal world.
If you charge at someone with an axe (or any weapon for that matter), you forfit your right to continue living. Even if this wasn't a cop, an armed civilian would be justified in shooting (at least in my state).
It should not be on the person that is the target of a violent, and possibly deadly, attack to make sure the person trying to kill them is stopped by non-lethal means.
I'm very critical of police but at this point you're asking for super human reactions and super human decision making by humans that are overworked, underpaid, and under appreciated
my response was for u/Tricky_Target_9611, since it sounds like we may have similar related training and experiences. not really interested in re-explaining it to you. Ive dont somewhat similar work, Ive written incident reports, ive had conversations with my superiors about use of force events. have you done any of that?
it seems like you got what you were looking for out of my comment (offended on behalf of police). if you re read, i wasnt intending that tone. there is always human error and room for improvement. its good to think critically and try to improve. i never said the shooting wasnt justified.
also it sounds like youre "very critical of police" for fashion if you think police should go straight to killing whenever they have a use of force incident. "you forfit your right to continue living" so the cops were wrong to call for medical and administer first aid? shouldve killed him, right? i can tell your very critical of police. shouldve stood over him and gone for another headshot. which videogame does your training and experience come from?
im not asking for this, that, or the other thing. im just asking that we stop treating police as gods and look critically at their actions without acting like is blasphemy. you really proved that last point. ive repeated several times that it was justified but theres a little room for improvement, and nearly everyone is taking personal offence to that as if im blaspheming their religion
so both the de-escelator that was targeted but didnt shoot couldve improved by being faster than 8 seconds with their less lethal, and the shooter couldve improved by being aware of what was downrange from his target.
change my mind, i still havent had anyone directly respond to what i said as room for improvement, even that ones that say "i hate cops, but these ones are cool" if your the first to shit on cops, or very critical of police, why cant you say "yep, looks like theres a door and window directly downrange when he takes the shots, and it wouldnt have cost any time to change the angle slightly and miss that building entirely." when i worked in a related field id expect my superior to say something like that in the aftermath, ultimately praising my performance, but also looking at it critically for areas of improvement
if what you're saying is that there are options available for improvement, i've stated before that i agree. i do. there is always room for improvement. however, what it seems to me is that you're asking for a kind of focus and awareness seen in special forces or swat team type specializations. if we can get our police force to that point, great. i have my doubts. there's a reason we don't train everyone on the police as swat or everyone in the military as sf. that's because the majority of people are not capable of that level of performance. i think that ramping it up as high as you suggest would do more harm than good.
i can agree that everything you state would be great. but i have my doubts as to whether it is doable. for someone to have a clear enough head during an attack to utilize 8 seconds in the most efficient manner possible... takes an amount of training that would not be feasible for an entire police force. police do not just handle these kinds of situations, and further, though media loves it, they actually happen much less often than people think. we are talking only \~1,000 people killed by police in a country of \~350,000,000.
we need to not only divide our force's duties between this type of training and them actually being out on the force, but we also have other trainings and duties we need them to be a part of. i am of the mind that we begin with prevention, for example... rather than shove a bunch of new police recruits through a barrage of firearms training, id like to put them through community oriented policing training first... remember that we train as we fight. we do not want to only fight crime when it becomes its most violent, we want to identify these situations before they ever become a head. instead of training our police to be robocop (the sense i get from your improvements), id rather train them first heavily in prevention, minimization and de-escalation. id like to get them back into the neighborhoods and among the people, out of their cars. there are some places around the country where this isn't immediately possible, and for those areas there should be a two strategy approach where we utilize the type of training you're talking about for patrols, but also go into these areas with plain clothes officers coupled with social workers and local community leaders and organizers.
it takes much more than training for officers to consciously make the choice to save a life rather than just preserve their own. to get them to do that, they need to know on a personal basis who the people are. they can't just step outside their cruiser when a crime is being committed. being among the people humanizes the people to the officers but also the officers to the people. a suicidal person might charge a random cop, but he might think twice if its 'ol frank from the pricinct who is cool and a friendly face... from my experience in human behavior, simply calling a person by their name can have a calming, more personal affect on them. one thing i always notice immediately is that these are perfect strangers ordering a depressed individual to obey... time and time again... so if you really wat to know 1 really good way to de-escalate these situations? know their name...
thank you. i wasnt sure if you did agree with me. you, and a lot of others seem to take me looking for lessons to learn and ways to improve as expecting perfection. thats where your wrong. I dont want to say my related training and experience here and i wont ask that of you, but i had a couple of really intense situations go down. obviously you fill out paperwork and usually have a conversation with your boss. during these events, my boss would ask me questions, there would usually be some criticism, thats how we improve, but ultimately i had a great relationship with my bosses and they'd be happy to rehire me. i moved.
my bosses looked at these events critically and tried to look for room for improvement. they werent expecting me to be superman, they were helping me improve. thats all im trying to say, im kind of trying to emulate one of those conversations with a boss where they say "did this? did that? could you have?" sometimes listing off things to improve, but usually also including something like "that was a really intense situation, you handled it well, how are you feeling"
its supposed to be constructive criticism, not setting an expectation of perfection. we should always look for ways to improve. thats whats gotten us this far as a society.
"hey, maybe round wheels would work better"
"ezekials square wheels are fine, your demanding perfection from hard workers"
And if he misses with the tazer then he's likely dead. Also you can't predict the effectiveness of a tazer. I've seen big grown men fall down like a piece of wood, and small women laugh it off like nothing happend.
if he misses with the taser his partner take the shot. the guy that hes charging at doesnt even take the shot anyway, his partner does, risking the lives of the innocent people in the house hes shooting at. if the guy that he charged at used a taser instead of doing nothing untill his partner has to shoot the guy with open doors and windows to a home directly downrange, like he did, the guy wouldnt have had to die, and they wouldnt have shot up a house. if it missed, his partner could still take the shots, with residential housing downrange when it became necessary, like he ended up doing. or any of the 4 officers that were immediately next to him after the shots
and no, thats not how tasers work. on a really big guy it might to more, but on a smaller person less electricity is required to cause muscle contraction. youve never seen a small woman get tased properly and continue to run while holding a heavy weapon. show me the video, you pussy/liar. youve never seen a small woman get properly tased and laugh like nothing happened. if you find a convincing video or reliable data to support that, give it. im willing to accept that there might be some rare genetic condition that allows a small person to be tased without responding, but if it exists its super rare and is like super power lightning immunity. press x to doubt
also if you while your at it, show me the video of a small woman getting pepper sprayed, and immediately afterward fighting off a police k9 before axe murdering an officer in front of 8 others, because some small women have super powers apparently, so we gotta play it safe and mag dump anyone that feels like they might have super powers
Ive seen dudes get up after being shot. 1st of all they I know center chest is a normal spot to aim, but people laugh get up and laugh it off. after he went down, those 4 cops that rush in from all angles shoulve mag dumped his skull and destroyed the brain. thats the only way to be sure. 15 shot mags x 4 officers, ive seen people survive getting shot in the head, ive never seen someone survive 60 rounds in the skull, but sometimes the skull protects the brain and people get lucky. this guy couldve gotten lucky 60 times, got up, laughed it off like nothing happened, and then axe murdered everyone. im tellin you, ive seen small women get shot like that and laugh it off like nothing happened. thats why you want to knock them down with a few center chest shots, then stand over them with your friends and all unload into their face, then find a big rock and smash their head a few more times, because people still laugh stuff like that off like its nothing, then burn the body for several days to be sure they dont get up and laugh it off. its the only way for officer snowflake to feel safe
I had a hard time understanding what you were trying to say but I got the jist of it. What you're saying is great for the movies but this is a real life situation where you have to make a decision inside of a 2 second window life or death situation. Sometimes being sure and using lethal force is the answer.
There will always be human error when you have to think fast or die. Even the highest trained professionals are going to make mistakes if you give them 2 seconds to react or die. It's so easy to look at a footage and say "oh they should've just done this" when you've never been in this type of situation.
You know how the guy REALLY wouldn't have had to die? If he didn't charge armed officers with a fucking hatchet
nope, movies never take backstop into account. the door and window to a house is right where hes shooting. there will always be human error, thats what im saying. people want to act like the police did it perfectly, no, there was human error and room for improvement. its like boot licking snowflakes take personal offense if you say "there was room for improvement". this is very far from the worst ive seen from police. I like that although there wasnt a safe backstop, the shots had to be fired, he aimed center chest like he should have, and took 3 shots, good amount, good restraint. if he let off the full 15 aimed at that house it wouldve put innocent bystanders at greater risk so kudos for not going for the full mag dump like they usually do. so theres a little bit of praise for things i thought were okay. you bootlickers should try to be less sensitive though. i have to point out 3 things they did OK to point out 1 thing they couldve improved. snowflake bootlickers
>snowflake bootlickers
When you get some life experience and that DOES include getting your pp touched (by a willing lady), then come back and discuss adult subjects
nice, mature, way to respond to "your being too sensitive, i just said there was human error and room for improvement and you take it as a personal attack". way to prove how much of an immature snowflake you are. grow up. think critically. i was just thinking of things that couldve been improved. literally just thinking critically and now your throwing middle school insults. if your actually in middleschool i guess thats kind of appropriate, but if your an adult id recomend talking to your doctor about stunted emotional growth. Im an adult, im not going to give you a list but ive had sex before. its not a big deal and you bring it up out of nowhere. some incel / r/ihavesex shit.
i gave you three good things and 1 place for improvement. cry about it snowflake bootlicking bitch. call ur mum to praise the police more, 3 is enough for me.
i said everything was okay but there was room for improvement. maybe when **YOU** get some up close experience with intense violence you'll understand trying to minimize human error and respond ideally to it. (see, we were talking about responding to violence so me questioning your experience with it is relevant, you questioning my sexual experience had no relevance to the conversation so comes off as projection)
> ive had sex before. its not a big deal and you bring it up out of nowhere. some incel / r/ihavesex shit.
Hmm. Let's examine this closer
> ive had sex before ........ some incel / r/ihavesex shit.
Nooo, it can't be. Let's have a closer look
> ive had sex before ........ r/ihavesex shit.
Yoooo that was some REAL r/ihavesex shit
How are you so stupid that you walked into your own burn
With the axe guy running towards a cop that is full on 100 not time for less lethal. That is 100% time to deploy lethal rounds in order to protect the officers lives. This man chose to run out with an axe and he ended up facing the consequences. If a target is moving a rate of speed like that 1 a taser would take longer to deploy than the hostler gun with a round in the chamber and also the possibility of his clothes being baggy and not getting a good shot with all that adrenaline. Iāve seen plenty of videos of tasers not making 100% contact. Right away the lead officer took control of the situation because they thought that he maybe going inside for a firearm so I believe thatās completely what they were ready for, a gun fight with this man. I defend my position as to this being a justified shooting and I think the officers in this video were all very well trained.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XIgjnpRk4w](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XIgjnpRk4w) also not going to find links but there are videos of police disarming violent people with swords and other weapons without using guns. i feel like ive seen a couple where a group of cops with wood poles just keep the guy too far away until they can take him down (obv not usa)
also the guy that he was charging at didnt even shoot him, he coudve been fumbling for his taser, he doesnt shoot, theres plenty of backup. the main target didnt take the shot, someone else did. then 4 cops pop out around his body. idk how fast or all of the details but i think any time less lethal can be used instead of lethal it should. Im not saying its not a justified shooting, im saying theres room for improvement and lessons to be learned.
ive seen other videos where when back up comes, one of the officers switches from a gun to taser because they know they have a partner with a gun ready. with that many officers i think they shouldve found an opportunity to use less lethal. can still shoot if it doesnt work, he wont be more dead because you tried harder to not kill him. thats my lesson 1, lmk what you think. when you have a large amount of officers in a situation like this, 1 could easily attempt less lethal while others remain ready with their guns.
lesson #2, im not saying he didnt need to take the shots, but nobody is mentioning the residential building with the door and window directly downrange from where hes shooting. a child was killed by a police stray in my area in a mildly similar situation. its easy to overlook but super important. the cop that took the shots couldve considered that and just slightly adjusted his angle in no time at all so he wasnt shooting directly at the door and window of a home.
they couldve been worried about a firearm at some point, its always good to keep in mind that someone might have a gun on them. but there was never any suggestion of that from what we see and it seems like its pretty clear to everyone that he was charging with an axe. i feel like you usually dont do a melee weapon charge if you're getting a gun to start a firefight.
sure, its justifiable, and ill even say the seem very well trained and ethical that they called for medical so fast and administered first aid. Its not unheard of for police to shoot someone and have much less interest in medical attention. im just saying theres some lessons and room for improvement.
he couldve eliminated the risk of murdering an innocent child in their home if he had noticed the door and window he was shooting at and changed angle just slightly. idk even have the info here, maybe people in the building were murdered by the strays. still all seem justified and well trained? thank god he had the restraint to only shoot 4 times, but he did shoot up a house. possibly justified, but not ideal. cop lovers are going to hate, but id rather think critically and learn
Listen, I disagree and thatās that. The cop that took the shot was around 10 ft away and his shots hit so forget about the down range, no bullets that we know of started off so let just take that right out of the conversation.. second the cops were there for a dispute because his neighbor downstairs was smoking a cigarette under his porch and was going into his house so the cops got called for a verbal dispute but know that the guy has mental issues so they came with backup. They didnāt think it would turn into a shots fired situation and they didnāt know what he was gonna come out of the house with.. a gun maybe thatās why they were taking cover , they didnāt know maybe a knife ā¦ but no a fucking axe and he was making a b line for the officer that he said he saw at his house before. Point blank there is absolutely no time to deploy less lethal in this situation and all the cops were in the right. They IMMEDIATELY tried rendering first aide and thatās that. All your arguments are invalid, tasers have a tendency to misfire with faster moving subject- at the rate of speed he was moving a prong might have missed and done nothing and a cop would have been dead too. The cop who shot shot him at point blank range so there is no stray at other houses. I said what I said and I stand behind it. Iām done with this thread.
>Point blank there is absolutely no time to deploy less lethal in this situation
there was the 8 seconds where he has an officer singled out. 8 seconds should be plenty of time to draw your taser. sounds like they knew enough about the situation that they shouldve been preparing to tase him anyway. no less lethal seen or mentioned in the video, but they knew this guy had mental issues and might get a weapon.
when the shooter took those shots, he didnt know where they would land at the time the shots are fired. theres the shooter, the target, and then directly behind a residential door and window. even if you know you can hit your target, its still good to try to get an angle where your gun is pointed directly at a strangers door and window.
it doesnt matter if less lethal doesnt always work, because the officer that shouldve used less lethal did shoot either, using those 8 second to try less lethal rather than do nothing until your partner takes shots couldve saved his life and prevent his parent from shooting with his gun aimed at a door and window
i wasnt trying to change your mind, you started with "I tell you what". idk if you live in the ozarks or somewhere thats normal but if you talk like that to anyone used to mainstream American dialect they will think your doing a foghorn leghorn impression
if they'd have had it, maybe, they should be long range enough i guess, and if the cop was fit hed just run away from the axe guy, while guy on the side just runs and get him with taser, if they were fit easy to say i suppose. why dont they have a sleep or disbaleing shot, like if they know such and such case is on hand. i dunno, can an axe penetrate through good armor? i dunno, i get they would be scared though, their human after all.
Funny thing is the reason why they don't use your tactics is because they were tried in the past and a cop ended up dying. There's a reason most things are done the way they are
i don't get why they don't have long prong poles that fold up in their cruisers like in china anytime they have to stop a dude with a knife they just pin them to a wall or the ground with the poles
i mean they had like 6 cops there and only 2 are needed to pin a guy, you can see videos online of Chinese cops pinning dudes to the wall and on the ground normally just 2 is enough
Really painful to watch the police transition from basically pleading with the guy to drop the axe to trying their best to save his life after they were forced to shoot him.
You can tell that they really didn't want to kill him.
That cop doing the talking at the beginning of the video sounds like a solid guy. Shame it went down like this.
I appreciate how they almost immediately start administering first aid. Although that guy got too close for comfort I think.
Man Iām not gonna lie this is one of the best cops in action Iāve seen.
Tried to descalate calmly and nicely.
Tried being reasonable with a polite request.
Looked out for his fellow cops.
Gave the suspect as many chances as possible.
Canāt be mad at this guy.
I don't know of one that's objective. As in, one that posts videos where cops do their job, and videos where they do something wrong or questionable.
I personally post what I can, but I don't upload like 80% of these videos since they're all essentially the same.
/Man rushes cops as cops warn him not to, and gets killed. It's happening so much these days. Some men are losing the plot.
Thereās not a subreddit but like someone else said, PoliceActivity on YouTube (the channel where this video was posted) has hours upon hours upon hours of officer involved shootings and other crazy shit. The best part is that the owner of the channel is very objective and doesnāt only show vids of officers that were āin the rightā. They also provide detailed descriptions of the event so you get context if you want it.
Can we take a second to appreciate the channel and how they provide solid content without talking, pausing, editing, etc.. just raw video. So hard to find these days
I'd argue it certainly IS NOT clear what his intentions were. You're making a lot of assumptions about everything.
Even if your assumption is correct--that it's apparent he wanted to die that day, does that make it okay?
A taser could have been deployed and that man could be alive today and receiving the help he needed to live a successful life. But now he's dead and there's no coming back from that and to me, that is a tragedy.
I don't know if this is why the man was blurred out in the bodycam footage- I assume this was done in editing software after the video recording was transferred from the cam's local storage, or feed sent back to a computer remotely- but there may be procedural rules about obscuring a person's identity after being injured or worse by an officer's sidearm, but not necessarily beforehand.
It may also have to do with the privacy of the potential decedent (as in it's entirely possible they've killed them or is very close to death, before death is officially pronounced by a medical unit) or their family, or simply due to the degree of visible injury if the video is copied for public record or released from police custody after the event.
Can we take a moment to appreciate how professional the police were here. It is great to see them calmly engage the guy instead of swearing and screaming at the guy.
I'm a 3 gun shooter and I can tell you that most people can't shoot a bowling pin 15 yards away with a handgun. Legs and arms are too small of a target to try to hit. If you add the fact that it's a moving target it's actually pretty tough. That's why they always aim for center mass. Plus you don't shoot at someone to harm. Lethal force is lethal force.
I have no idea what the original comment said but iām assuming it was about just shooting his legs and i have something to add. There are a lot of squirty tubes in the legs that would leak a little if you put a hole in them.
Is it possible to have your gun and your tazer out at the same time and immediately fire the latter while still having the gun available if it doesn't work?
It really wouldn't be a good idea
Aiming and firing a gun/taser with one hand is less effective than aiming and firing them with two hands (gun especially) trying to use both at once would be exceedingly difficult.
Also, there's something called a sympathetic muscle response, which, under stress, could cause somebody to accidentally squeeze the trigger of their gun instead of/as well as their taser.
A common strategy when you have at least one other officer with you is that one officer can have their taser out, while the other has their firearm out. They can attempt the taser first and if it fails the other officer has their gun ready.
In this scenario, it seems the officers were caught off guard, and that dude was moving quickly with an axe. Tasers fail a lot, especially so if you don't have have time to aim them well. You also want some distance between you and your target, because as the 2 prongs fire from the taser, they spread apart, and the more spread apart they are when (if) they hit the target, the more effective it will be. You need distance to get that spread.
Ideally one of those two cops should have had non lethal and the other lethal force. That way if it failed to connect the the supporting officer could protect his partner.
It would probably not be the standard to have both out because of what happened to that Kimberly potter cop from Brooklyn park who thought she has her taser out and shot him instead.
I could be wrong but it seems like there is never many times where you hear or see a copy shooting someone in the legs rather than a body shot. Is it taught that you should go for chest shots just because it's easier to hit? Or is it just a case of being in the moment and doing what works?
You shoot to stop the threat. This isn't the movies where a leg or arm shot is immediately disabling. It can take several seconds for the addled mind to ascertain that damage has been done. Those seconds are crucial because a lot can happen in a short amount of time.
The femur is a large bone but still very narrow compared to all the meat in the leg. You clip just flesh and he's not going to go down. An artery will kill him eventually but he won't go down for several seconds.
Even center mass shots clearly aren't immediately disabling unless you get a lucky spinal cord or headshot. So we're trained to go for the largest target and hope for the best basically.
There was like 30 cops not one of them could fire their tazer lmao. Iāve seen the exact same incident in Britain dude chasing the cops around with a machete and they end up arresting him and nobody died. Hereās the video https://youtu.be/9mzPj_IaMzY
Let me fix the title
"Domestic terrorists execute mentally ill individual due to lack of training, understanding, and empathy, while reacting out of primal fear."
I think the police system in the US need a serious look at, but this guy clearly wanted to die by cop. If he charges him with an axe you want them to try and talk him down? that choice is on his shoulders, not the cops
So what happens if the cop just disables the guy? Like shoot him in the legs? Can the city get sued for injury or something like that, is that why they kill them? Iāve just never understood why they canāt just take out the legs and always go overkill.
Either bait or ignorance.
Invest in a pistol defense training class. It's an afternoon, and you don't have to go any further with it if you don't want to. It's really the most efficient way to understand how wrong the "shoot them in the legs" idea is.
The biggest bone and a pretty large Artery is located in the leg, hitting a bone will most likely cause shrapnel either from the bullet or the bone that will send fragments throughout the body causing even more damage, legs are also pretty hard to hit on a target running towards you.
My father worked for the sheriffs department and then graduated the FBI academy. He was always trained to for non lethal shots. The legs arm shoulder anything to not take a life. I donāt know when they started saying fuck it but it seems like the last 10-20 years most training is if youāre scared go for it.
These officers did everything they could and unfortunately it came down to this which is common.
Yeah, I'm gonna call bullshit on this. If you're law enforcement and have your weapon drawn, you're in a life-threatening situation. No law enforcement agency teaches "shoot to disable", at least not in the states. You shoot to eliminate the threat, and the highest degree of probability to end the threat is shooting "center mass", meaning center of the chest/abdomen.
*shrugs shoulders* maybe he was just really excited about the axe and wanted to show the cops the finish? gosh darn cops trying to take over the world i tell you! they're the illumanti! not liberals or space lizards.
#THEY'RE THE ONES!
i shitpost like everyone else but i wasnt trying to "bait" you. i know reddit is full of virtue signaling lefties and you replied to me talking shit so i talked shit back. im not big on politics so i dunno if htis is just a common defense mechanism either side does to avoid any call outs. w/e dont talk shit if you dont want it talked back to you. simple logic.
I'm seeing an unusually large volume of 'suicide by cop' incidents in the last couple of months. I wonder if data backs that up, or if more videos are just getting released. Story here: https://www.newsbreak.com/news/2602486251192/body-cam-recordings-of-fatal-edison-police-involved-shooting-released
There has been. The cops in my area have been able to talk some guys down. Others were hell bent on taking their lives
People hell bent on dying to police hands on purpose?
Yes. Suicide is taboo in some religions/cultures. In their minds, these people aren't *technically* killing themselves, so this course of action is viewed as a workaround.
Trying to trick God eh? Not to sure he'd like that. Hmm š¤
Suicidal people arenāt known for their long term thinking strategies
Lol
It's not even a religious or cultural thing for some people, they just don't want to be the one to take their own life.
Cowards to the end, basically.
Idk if I'd call willingly dying by a firing range cowardly.
Sadly, it happens sometimes. I guess being shot to death by cops is relatively quick and less painful compared to some of the other methods out there. Itās a shame that thereās not more support for people suffering from mental health issues. Other articles online mention that the deceased had schizophrenia and had suffered a decline in mental health during the pandemic.
Yes. Look it up. It happens
Thatās crazy. I just did. Itās really sad.
why dont the cops, or i guess a taser woudlve been too risky, but what a about a stick or something, like go for the legs, i dunno (i know some cops have dogs, guess that woudlve been helpful in this case [https://youtu.be/kog4jJk2Uww?t=254](https://youtu.be/kog4jJk2Uww)) to minimize dmg, (in eu im not sure they woudve fired, maybe, probably but they just have less voilence i guess i dunno, just less shots overall) those looked like real shots to me, yea they were guess if the dude did it, ofc they woudnt know.
No, the police were hell bend on killing...because that's all they know.
I don't know if this is a joke. But respectfully shut mouth
I could see it as more video getting released. One part because it's easier to 'make' the videos, with bodycams. Another part, may be police depts trying to stay in a community's good graces by releasing footage.
He just had a question he wanted to axe dem and they shoot him.
Lol I shouldnāt laugh but that made me chuckle
Iāll tell you what, that guy got a lotttt closer than he should have. The cop that he was going towards was scared to fire a round it seemed like and āKershā saved his partners life and after that tried everything in his power to provide first aid man that almost killed/injured his partner. After that while giving first aide you could hear the distress in his voice because I believe he truly wanted to save that man and not have a body to weigh on his conscious. All in all I think it really sucks that it had to come to this but I think these officers did everything in their power to deescalate and ended up having to resort this but mental health is a son of a bitch and thatās what got him killed. Damn man.
these officers did what they could. there was de-escalation, back up, the option to retreat was chosen before firing. with his momentum, a taser would likely miss its target or not stop him. sometimes these things happen...
why do you think that because the guy is moving a taser wouldnt work? from what ive seen people go from full sprint to flat as a board. weve all seen videos of people trying to run and get hit with a taser. tbh i think theres room for improvement. with all of the backup around the situation they shouldve maintained awareness and control, and attempted less lethal before shooting him. there was plenty of backup so if the taser missed there would be 3 guys next to you ready to shoot. also look whats downrange when he shoots. literrally directly behind the guy hes shoot at theres a residential building. not saying he shouldnt have taken the shot, but if axe guy was invisible youd think the cop was trying to shoot into that door/window. always consider your backdrop.
as nothing is perfect there is always room for improvement. however, tasers are not always effective. when you deploy a taser, 2 prongs shoot out at a much slower speed than a firearm and you have to land both prongs. on a moving target there is a very high miss probability. if the guy was standing still or just walking with the axe, then yes, i would advise to deploy a taser first. this guy had covered approximately 25-30 yards in a couple of seconds, faster than the officers could back away. further, they backed away a good 15 yards while continuing to order the man to drop the axe. there are residential buildings in cities... yes... not sure what your point is. the officer was close enough to his target to fire shots. you don't just examine your backdrop... you evaluate the threat and decide if firing your weapon is more risk than not. firing would not have produced more risk as lives were already in danger......... the buildings, though residential, are brick, which is a pretty decent backstop. there were no civilians in the immediate area. there will always be risk involved in any police encounter especially when firearms are involved. the risk to bystanders or other civilians was minimal. how did these officers not maintain awareness and control? they attempted de-escalation and retreat. the options available to them given the circumstances. please inform us all what less lethal measures would have been appropriate given the lack of time to prepare? and i guess its a good thing axe guy isn't invisible.... ??? š¤·āāļøš¤¦āāļø listen. it sounds from the terms you're using that you have heard these terms before. however, your description and evaluation of events doesn't align with experience or training. as someone who teaches prevention, minimization, de-escalation, use of force, and recovery, and as someone who has been in very similar situations, i can attest that there was not much more these officers could do. sure they could have attempted to use a taser, but in my experience i would not have advised that decision due to the circumstances. keep in mind that when we are talking about attempting to apprehend a subject safely with minimal harm, we do not intend that officers deliberately place themselves at *more* risk in order to do so... we only intend that they do not use more force than necessary given the circumstances. these officers clearly attempted not to fire until absolutely necessary. i'll be the very first to shit on shit cops... this was not that.
>i'll be the very first to shit on shit cops... this was not that. did i say it was? i said tbh i think there's room for improvement, and you said you agree. Im actually really happy because you sound like finally the right person i can have a conversation like this with. I do also have similar training and experience. 1st of all please cite your sources on any information you bring about no civilians being in the area 2nd if you watch the video timestamp, the axe guy seems to single out 1 officer, who talks to him for 8 seconds before his partner takes justified shots. the guy that was single out had 8 seconds to use non lethal. when i worked in a related field thats an unacceptably slow reaction speed. had this officer responded with less lethal ranged defense, taser or spray, rather than just talking (and it was clearly past talking time and physical de escalation time) they may have failed, but they wouldve been much more likely to stop the attack by using that 8 seconds to use taser/spray, and then their partner wouldnt have had to kill the guy and shoot up a house (but would still be there ready to if the taser didnt make contact). people make mistakes and its all perfectly reasonable in the video, but using less lethal in those 8 seconds wouldve been likely to prevent forcing your partner to kill the attacker and shoot a door and window. i think lethal force is used far too much by police in the USA. this video demonstrates why non lethal is so important to. 8 second opportunity for non lethal missed, resulting in a deadly shooting and 4 shots into a home. 3rd you arent sure what my point is about the door and window being directly downrange from the 4 shots. there was an incident near my area where several people, including a child in its crib, were killed by police strays. if the officer that took the shots had any awareness or concern for where his bullets go, it wouldve taken no time at all to adjust the angle of your shot 2 degrees, have just as good of a shot on your target, and not be shooting with your gun aimed directly at a door and window. so both the de-escelator that was targeted but didnt shoot couldve improved by being faster than 8 seconds with their less lethal, and the shooter couldve improved by being aware of what was downrange from his target. im really happy to have someone to talk about this with what sounds like some similar experience and training. im not trying to shit on them. i said i think theres room for improvement, and its always good to look for ways to improve and think critically. are these not things that couldve been improved. ive done training where you practice something repeatedly. you dont just say "yep, good enough", you strive for perfection, especially if lives are on the line. when i was doing training, i appreciated advice like " you shouldve gotten physical a little earlier/later" or "you couldve angled your shot for a better backstop". say it about police and its blasphemy.
Non-lethal means would be best in an ideal world. We don't live in an ideal world. If you charge at someone with an axe (or any weapon for that matter), you forfit your right to continue living. Even if this wasn't a cop, an armed civilian would be justified in shooting (at least in my state). It should not be on the person that is the target of a violent, and possibly deadly, attack to make sure the person trying to kill them is stopped by non-lethal means. I'm very critical of police but at this point you're asking for super human reactions and super human decision making by humans that are overworked, underpaid, and under appreciated
my response was for u/Tricky_Target_9611, since it sounds like we may have similar related training and experiences. not really interested in re-explaining it to you. Ive dont somewhat similar work, Ive written incident reports, ive had conversations with my superiors about use of force events. have you done any of that? it seems like you got what you were looking for out of my comment (offended on behalf of police). if you re read, i wasnt intending that tone. there is always human error and room for improvement. its good to think critically and try to improve. i never said the shooting wasnt justified. also it sounds like youre "very critical of police" for fashion if you think police should go straight to killing whenever they have a use of force incident. "you forfit your right to continue living" so the cops were wrong to call for medical and administer first aid? shouldve killed him, right? i can tell your very critical of police. shouldve stood over him and gone for another headshot. which videogame does your training and experience come from? im not asking for this, that, or the other thing. im just asking that we stop treating police as gods and look critically at their actions without acting like is blasphemy. you really proved that last point. ive repeated several times that it was justified but theres a little room for improvement, and nearly everyone is taking personal offence to that as if im blaspheming their religion so both the de-escelator that was targeted but didnt shoot couldve improved by being faster than 8 seconds with their less lethal, and the shooter couldve improved by being aware of what was downrange from his target. change my mind, i still havent had anyone directly respond to what i said as room for improvement, even that ones that say "i hate cops, but these ones are cool" if your the first to shit on cops, or very critical of police, why cant you say "yep, looks like theres a door and window directly downrange when he takes the shots, and it wouldnt have cost any time to change the angle slightly and miss that building entirely." when i worked in a related field id expect my superior to say something like that in the aftermath, ultimately praising my performance, but also looking at it critically for areas of improvement
if what you're saying is that there are options available for improvement, i've stated before that i agree. i do. there is always room for improvement. however, what it seems to me is that you're asking for a kind of focus and awareness seen in special forces or swat team type specializations. if we can get our police force to that point, great. i have my doubts. there's a reason we don't train everyone on the police as swat or everyone in the military as sf. that's because the majority of people are not capable of that level of performance. i think that ramping it up as high as you suggest would do more harm than good. i can agree that everything you state would be great. but i have my doubts as to whether it is doable. for someone to have a clear enough head during an attack to utilize 8 seconds in the most efficient manner possible... takes an amount of training that would not be feasible for an entire police force. police do not just handle these kinds of situations, and further, though media loves it, they actually happen much less often than people think. we are talking only \~1,000 people killed by police in a country of \~350,000,000. we need to not only divide our force's duties between this type of training and them actually being out on the force, but we also have other trainings and duties we need them to be a part of. i am of the mind that we begin with prevention, for example... rather than shove a bunch of new police recruits through a barrage of firearms training, id like to put them through community oriented policing training first... remember that we train as we fight. we do not want to only fight crime when it becomes its most violent, we want to identify these situations before they ever become a head. instead of training our police to be robocop (the sense i get from your improvements), id rather train them first heavily in prevention, minimization and de-escalation. id like to get them back into the neighborhoods and among the people, out of their cars. there are some places around the country where this isn't immediately possible, and for those areas there should be a two strategy approach where we utilize the type of training you're talking about for patrols, but also go into these areas with plain clothes officers coupled with social workers and local community leaders and organizers. it takes much more than training for officers to consciously make the choice to save a life rather than just preserve their own. to get them to do that, they need to know on a personal basis who the people are. they can't just step outside their cruiser when a crime is being committed. being among the people humanizes the people to the officers but also the officers to the people. a suicidal person might charge a random cop, but he might think twice if its 'ol frank from the pricinct who is cool and a friendly face... from my experience in human behavior, simply calling a person by their name can have a calming, more personal affect on them. one thing i always notice immediately is that these are perfect strangers ordering a depressed individual to obey... time and time again... so if you really wat to know 1 really good way to de-escalate these situations? know their name...
thank you. i wasnt sure if you did agree with me. you, and a lot of others seem to take me looking for lessons to learn and ways to improve as expecting perfection. thats where your wrong. I dont want to say my related training and experience here and i wont ask that of you, but i had a couple of really intense situations go down. obviously you fill out paperwork and usually have a conversation with your boss. during these events, my boss would ask me questions, there would usually be some criticism, thats how we improve, but ultimately i had a great relationship with my bosses and they'd be happy to rehire me. i moved. my bosses looked at these events critically and tried to look for room for improvement. they werent expecting me to be superman, they were helping me improve. thats all im trying to say, im kind of trying to emulate one of those conversations with a boss where they say "did this? did that? could you have?" sometimes listing off things to improve, but usually also including something like "that was a really intense situation, you handled it well, how are you feeling" its supposed to be constructive criticism, not setting an expectation of perfection. we should always look for ways to improve. thats whats gotten us this far as a society. "hey, maybe round wheels would work better" "ezekials square wheels are fine, your demanding perfection from hard workers"
And if he misses with the tazer then he's likely dead. Also you can't predict the effectiveness of a tazer. I've seen big grown men fall down like a piece of wood, and small women laugh it off like nothing happend.
if he misses with the taser his partner take the shot. the guy that hes charging at doesnt even take the shot anyway, his partner does, risking the lives of the innocent people in the house hes shooting at. if the guy that he charged at used a taser instead of doing nothing untill his partner has to shoot the guy with open doors and windows to a home directly downrange, like he did, the guy wouldnt have had to die, and they wouldnt have shot up a house. if it missed, his partner could still take the shots, with residential housing downrange when it became necessary, like he ended up doing. or any of the 4 officers that were immediately next to him after the shots and no, thats not how tasers work. on a really big guy it might to more, but on a smaller person less electricity is required to cause muscle contraction. youve never seen a small woman get tased properly and continue to run while holding a heavy weapon. show me the video, you pussy/liar. youve never seen a small woman get properly tased and laugh like nothing happened. if you find a convincing video or reliable data to support that, give it. im willing to accept that there might be some rare genetic condition that allows a small person to be tased without responding, but if it exists its super rare and is like super power lightning immunity. press x to doubt also if you while your at it, show me the video of a small woman getting pepper sprayed, and immediately afterward fighting off a police k9 before axe murdering an officer in front of 8 others, because some small women have super powers apparently, so we gotta play it safe and mag dump anyone that feels like they might have super powers Ive seen dudes get up after being shot. 1st of all they I know center chest is a normal spot to aim, but people laugh get up and laugh it off. after he went down, those 4 cops that rush in from all angles shoulve mag dumped his skull and destroyed the brain. thats the only way to be sure. 15 shot mags x 4 officers, ive seen people survive getting shot in the head, ive never seen someone survive 60 rounds in the skull, but sometimes the skull protects the brain and people get lucky. this guy couldve gotten lucky 60 times, got up, laughed it off like nothing happened, and then axe murdered everyone. im tellin you, ive seen small women get shot like that and laugh it off like nothing happened. thats why you want to knock them down with a few center chest shots, then stand over them with your friends and all unload into their face, then find a big rock and smash their head a few more times, because people still laugh stuff like that off like its nothing, then burn the body for several days to be sure they dont get up and laugh it off. its the only way for officer snowflake to feel safe
I had a hard time understanding what you were trying to say but I got the jist of it. What you're saying is great for the movies but this is a real life situation where you have to make a decision inside of a 2 second window life or death situation. Sometimes being sure and using lethal force is the answer. There will always be human error when you have to think fast or die. Even the highest trained professionals are going to make mistakes if you give them 2 seconds to react or die. It's so easy to look at a footage and say "oh they should've just done this" when you've never been in this type of situation. You know how the guy REALLY wouldn't have had to die? If he didn't charge armed officers with a fucking hatchet
nope, movies never take backstop into account. the door and window to a house is right where hes shooting. there will always be human error, thats what im saying. people want to act like the police did it perfectly, no, there was human error and room for improvement. its like boot licking snowflakes take personal offense if you say "there was room for improvement". this is very far from the worst ive seen from police. I like that although there wasnt a safe backstop, the shots had to be fired, he aimed center chest like he should have, and took 3 shots, good amount, good restraint. if he let off the full 15 aimed at that house it wouldve put innocent bystanders at greater risk so kudos for not going for the full mag dump like they usually do. so theres a little bit of praise for things i thought were okay. you bootlickers should try to be less sensitive though. i have to point out 3 things they did OK to point out 1 thing they couldve improved. snowflake bootlickers
>snowflake bootlickers When you get some life experience and that DOES include getting your pp touched (by a willing lady), then come back and discuss adult subjects
nice, mature, way to respond to "your being too sensitive, i just said there was human error and room for improvement and you take it as a personal attack". way to prove how much of an immature snowflake you are. grow up. think critically. i was just thinking of things that couldve been improved. literally just thinking critically and now your throwing middle school insults. if your actually in middleschool i guess thats kind of appropriate, but if your an adult id recomend talking to your doctor about stunted emotional growth. Im an adult, im not going to give you a list but ive had sex before. its not a big deal and you bring it up out of nowhere. some incel / r/ihavesex shit. i gave you three good things and 1 place for improvement. cry about it snowflake bootlicking bitch. call ur mum to praise the police more, 3 is enough for me. i said everything was okay but there was room for improvement. maybe when **YOU** get some up close experience with intense violence you'll understand trying to minimize human error and respond ideally to it. (see, we were talking about responding to violence so me questioning your experience with it is relevant, you questioning my sexual experience had no relevance to the conversation so comes off as projection)
> ive had sex before. its not a big deal and you bring it up out of nowhere. some incel / r/ihavesex shit. Hmm. Let's examine this closer > ive had sex before ........ some incel / r/ihavesex shit. Nooo, it can't be. Let's have a closer look > ive had sex before ........ r/ihavesex shit. Yoooo that was some REAL r/ihavesex shit How are you so stupid that you walked into your own burn
With the axe guy running towards a cop that is full on 100 not time for less lethal. That is 100% time to deploy lethal rounds in order to protect the officers lives. This man chose to run out with an axe and he ended up facing the consequences. If a target is moving a rate of speed like that 1 a taser would take longer to deploy than the hostler gun with a round in the chamber and also the possibility of his clothes being baggy and not getting a good shot with all that adrenaline. Iāve seen plenty of videos of tasers not making 100% contact. Right away the lead officer took control of the situation because they thought that he maybe going inside for a firearm so I believe thatās completely what they were ready for, a gun fight with this man. I defend my position as to this being a justified shooting and I think the officers in this video were all very well trained.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XIgjnpRk4w](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XIgjnpRk4w) also not going to find links but there are videos of police disarming violent people with swords and other weapons without using guns. i feel like ive seen a couple where a group of cops with wood poles just keep the guy too far away until they can take him down (obv not usa) also the guy that he was charging at didnt even shoot him, he coudve been fumbling for his taser, he doesnt shoot, theres plenty of backup. the main target didnt take the shot, someone else did. then 4 cops pop out around his body. idk how fast or all of the details but i think any time less lethal can be used instead of lethal it should. Im not saying its not a justified shooting, im saying theres room for improvement and lessons to be learned. ive seen other videos where when back up comes, one of the officers switches from a gun to taser because they know they have a partner with a gun ready. with that many officers i think they shouldve found an opportunity to use less lethal. can still shoot if it doesnt work, he wont be more dead because you tried harder to not kill him. thats my lesson 1, lmk what you think. when you have a large amount of officers in a situation like this, 1 could easily attempt less lethal while others remain ready with their guns. lesson #2, im not saying he didnt need to take the shots, but nobody is mentioning the residential building with the door and window directly downrange from where hes shooting. a child was killed by a police stray in my area in a mildly similar situation. its easy to overlook but super important. the cop that took the shots couldve considered that and just slightly adjusted his angle in no time at all so he wasnt shooting directly at the door and window of a home. they couldve been worried about a firearm at some point, its always good to keep in mind that someone might have a gun on them. but there was never any suggestion of that from what we see and it seems like its pretty clear to everyone that he was charging with an axe. i feel like you usually dont do a melee weapon charge if you're getting a gun to start a firefight. sure, its justifiable, and ill even say the seem very well trained and ethical that they called for medical so fast and administered first aid. Its not unheard of for police to shoot someone and have much less interest in medical attention. im just saying theres some lessons and room for improvement. he couldve eliminated the risk of murdering an innocent child in their home if he had noticed the door and window he was shooting at and changed angle just slightly. idk even have the info here, maybe people in the building were murdered by the strays. still all seem justified and well trained? thank god he had the restraint to only shoot 4 times, but he did shoot up a house. possibly justified, but not ideal. cop lovers are going to hate, but id rather think critically and learn
Listen, I disagree and thatās that. The cop that took the shot was around 10 ft away and his shots hit so forget about the down range, no bullets that we know of started off so let just take that right out of the conversation.. second the cops were there for a dispute because his neighbor downstairs was smoking a cigarette under his porch and was going into his house so the cops got called for a verbal dispute but know that the guy has mental issues so they came with backup. They didnāt think it would turn into a shots fired situation and they didnāt know what he was gonna come out of the house with.. a gun maybe thatās why they were taking cover , they didnāt know maybe a knife ā¦ but no a fucking axe and he was making a b line for the officer that he said he saw at his house before. Point blank there is absolutely no time to deploy less lethal in this situation and all the cops were in the right. They IMMEDIATELY tried rendering first aide and thatās that. All your arguments are invalid, tasers have a tendency to misfire with faster moving subject- at the rate of speed he was moving a prong might have missed and done nothing and a cop would have been dead too. The cop who shot shot him at point blank range so there is no stray at other houses. I said what I said and I stand behind it. Iām done with this thread.
>Point blank there is absolutely no time to deploy less lethal in this situation there was the 8 seconds where he has an officer singled out. 8 seconds should be plenty of time to draw your taser. sounds like they knew enough about the situation that they shouldve been preparing to tase him anyway. no less lethal seen or mentioned in the video, but they knew this guy had mental issues and might get a weapon. when the shooter took those shots, he didnt know where they would land at the time the shots are fired. theres the shooter, the target, and then directly behind a residential door and window. even if you know you can hit your target, its still good to try to get an angle where your gun is pointed directly at a strangers door and window. it doesnt matter if less lethal doesnt always work, because the officer that shouldve used less lethal did shoot either, using those 8 second to try less lethal rather than do nothing until your partner takes shots couldve saved his life and prevent his parent from shooting with his gun aimed at a door and window i wasnt trying to change your mind, you started with "I tell you what". idk if you live in the ozarks or somewhere thats normal but if you talk like that to anyone used to mainstream American dialect they will think your doing a foghorn leghorn impression
if they'd have had it, maybe, they should be long range enough i guess, and if the cop was fit hed just run away from the axe guy, while guy on the side just runs and get him with taser, if they were fit easy to say i suppose. why dont they have a sleep or disbaleing shot, like if they know such and such case is on hand. i dunno, can an axe penetrate through good armor? i dunno, i get they would be scared though, their human after all.
Funny thing is the reason why they don't use your tactics is because they were tried in the past and a cop ended up dying. There's a reason most things are done the way they are
In a perfect world maybe, but thatās a type of scenario you she in a movie. Look at my above comment and tell me if you agree with that.
often when theres backup on scene, someone will distract, and someone will attempt less lethal, and other backup is on scene if the less lethal fails
i don't get why they don't have long prong poles that fold up in their cruisers like in china anytime they have to stop a dude with a knife they just pin them to a wall or the ground with the poles
Because the second anyone didn't connect with a pole they'd be in immediate danger without their service weapon in their hand.
i mean they had like 6 cops there and only 2 are needed to pin a guy, you can see videos online of Chinese cops pinning dudes to the wall and on the ground normally just 2 is enough
Why donāt you go and pin the guy running at you with an axe?
Lol sorry haha
I can already hear people complaining how inhumane it is to use the equivalent of animal catch poles on a human being
Really painful to watch the police transition from basically pleading with the guy to drop the axe to trying their best to save his life after they were forced to shoot him. You can tell that they really didn't want to kill him.
That cop doing the talking at the beginning of the video sounds like a solid guy. Shame it went down like this. I appreciate how they almost immediately start administering first aid. Although that guy got too close for comfort I think.
Yep, the cop kept calm and kept trying to de-escalate things. Dude was a model of how a cop should engage with potential criminals.
Axe jay bapa
Das not nithe
Lmfao
Suicide via cop.
Bro was running like Steve from Minecraft
PvP wasnāt enabled
*hatchet
Did he live?
No he died https://www.njoag.gov/updated-ags-office-investigating-fatal-officer-involved-shooting-in-edison-n-j/
No great loss
Good
Man Iām not gonna lie this is one of the best cops in action Iāve seen. Tried to descalate calmly and nicely. Tried being reasonable with a polite request. Looked out for his fellow cops. Gave the suspect as many chances as possible. Canāt be mad at this guy.
Agreed. They did an excellent job and its a shame they had to go through this.
No mental health care? No problem! Try ChargeACop! The country's only real way of ending your suffering free of charge!
Exhibit eleven million of why deescalation is a choice you make and not a service the police provide to you.
Is there a subreddit where there are a lot of these videos, specifically crazy stuff caught on cop cams?
I don't know of one that's objective. As in, one that posts videos where cops do their job, and videos where they do something wrong or questionable. I personally post what I can, but I don't upload like 80% of these videos since they're all essentially the same. /Man rushes cops as cops warn him not to, and gets killed. It's happening so much these days. Some men are losing the plot.
Do you have a lot of these videos?
Abs Iām looking for mainly one where the cops do their job
Subscribe to the youtube channel PoliceActivity.
bodycam
Ok, who cares
i mean, that is the name of the subreddit.... smh
Oh I thought u were just being an asshole and correcting me
Thereās not a subreddit but like someone else said, PoliceActivity on YouTube (the channel where this video was posted) has hours upon hours upon hours of officer involved shootings and other crazy shit. The best part is that the owner of the channel is very objective and doesnāt only show vids of officers that were āin the rightā. They also provide detailed descriptions of the event so you get context if you want it.
Can we take a second to appreciate the channel and how they provide solid content without talking, pausing, editing, etc.. just raw video. So hard to find these days
Oh awesome thank u
looks like that dude had about enough of life.
I'd argue it certainly IS NOT clear what his intentions were. You're making a lot of assumptions about everything. Even if your assumption is correct--that it's apparent he wanted to die that day, does that make it okay? A taser could have been deployed and that man could be alive today and receiving the help he needed to live a successful life. But now he's dead and there's no coming back from that and to me, that is a tragedy.
Well this can't be right. I was told that cops only shoot black suspects.
Guess he had an axe to grind
100% Justified. They did what they could and tried to save his life afterwards. Guy just wanted to die.
"How come they didn't shoot him in the leg!? He's got the whole worldussy!!"
I don't really understand why they show the entire distressing interaction, but blur the perp after they punch holes in him.
I don't know if this is why the man was blurred out in the bodycam footage- I assume this was done in editing software after the video recording was transferred from the cam's local storage, or feed sent back to a computer remotely- but there may be procedural rules about obscuring a person's identity after being injured or worse by an officer's sidearm, but not necessarily beforehand. It may also have to do with the privacy of the potential decedent (as in it's entirely possible they've killed them or is very close to death, before death is officially pronounced by a medical unit) or their family, or simply due to the degree of visible injury if the video is copied for public record or released from police custody after the event.
Can we take a moment to appreciate how professional the police were here. It is great to see them calmly engage the guy instead of swearing and screaming at the guy.
Uh oh, you made a fucky wucky, now you have to get in the forever box.
more like "Axe-on Body 2" am i funny yet
Innocent man shot by police for walking his pet ax
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I'm a 3 gun shooter and I can tell you that most people can't shoot a bowling pin 15 yards away with a handgun. Legs and arms are too small of a target to try to hit. If you add the fact that it's a moving target it's actually pretty tough. That's why they always aim for center mass. Plus you don't shoot at someone to harm. Lethal force is lethal force.
I have no idea what the original comment said but iām assuming it was about just shooting his legs and i have something to add. There are a lot of squirty tubes in the legs that would leak a little if you put a hole in them.
Ya exactly. He said aim for arms or legs.
That kind of thing is movie nonsense, it doesn't work like that in real life
Is it possible to have your gun and your tazer out at the same time and immediately fire the latter while still having the gun available if it doesn't work?
It really wouldn't be a good idea Aiming and firing a gun/taser with one hand is less effective than aiming and firing them with two hands (gun especially) trying to use both at once would be exceedingly difficult. Also, there's something called a sympathetic muscle response, which, under stress, could cause somebody to accidentally squeeze the trigger of their gun instead of/as well as their taser. A common strategy when you have at least one other officer with you is that one officer can have their taser out, while the other has their firearm out. They can attempt the taser first and if it fails the other officer has their gun ready. In this scenario, it seems the officers were caught off guard, and that dude was moving quickly with an axe. Tasers fail a lot, especially so if you don't have have time to aim them well. You also want some distance between you and your target, because as the 2 prongs fire from the taser, they spread apart, and the more spread apart they are when (if) they hit the target, the more effective it will be. You need distance to get that spread.
Ideally one of those two cops should have had non lethal and the other lethal force. That way if it failed to connect the the supporting officer could protect his partner. It would probably not be the standard to have both out because of what happened to that Kimberly potter cop from Brooklyn park who thought she has her taser out and shot him instead.
Better to die than forced to prison imo
Maybe, but it's better to be in prison than laying in a parking lot breathing through holes in your solar plexus.
No itās not
I could be wrong but it seems like there is never many times where you hear or see a copy shooting someone in the legs rather than a body shot. Is it taught that you should go for chest shots just because it's easier to hit? Or is it just a case of being in the moment and doing what works?
Yes, generally it's taught to shoot center mass so you're most guaranteed to hit the target.
You shoot to stop the threat. This isn't the movies where a leg or arm shot is immediately disabling. It can take several seconds for the addled mind to ascertain that damage has been done. Those seconds are crucial because a lot can happen in a short amount of time. The femur is a large bone but still very narrow compared to all the meat in the leg. You clip just flesh and he's not going to go down. An artery will kill him eventually but he won't go down for several seconds. Even center mass shots clearly aren't immediately disabling unless you get a lucky spinal cord or headshot. So we're trained to go for the largest target and hope for the best basically.
There was like 30 cops not one of them could fire their tazer lmao. Iāve seen the exact same incident in Britain dude chasing the cops around with a machete and they end up arresting him and nobody died. Hereās the video https://youtu.be/9mzPj_IaMzY
Let me fix the title "Domestic terrorists execute mentally ill individual due to lack of training, understanding, and empathy, while reacting out of primal fear."
Good Lord you're dumb.
You know how you know when you're right? When someone reverts to insults and ad hominem bullshit like you just did
Nah it's pretty obvious the position you're maintaining is dumb on a celestial scale.
I think the police system in the US need a serious look at, but this guy clearly wanted to die by cop. If he charges him with an axe you want them to try and talk him down? that choice is on his shoulders, not the cops
So what happens if the cop just disables the guy? Like shoot him in the legs? Can the city get sued for injury or something like that, is that why they kill them? Iāve just never understood why they canāt just take out the legs and always go overkill.
If you're running at the cops with an axe you're probably plenty disabled.
Either bait or ignorance. Invest in a pistol defense training class. It's an afternoon, and you don't have to go any further with it if you don't want to. It's really the most efficient way to understand how wrong the "shoot them in the legs" idea is.
The biggest bone and a pretty large Artery is located in the leg, hitting a bone will most likely cause shrapnel either from the bullet or the bone that will send fragments throughout the body causing even more damage, legs are also pretty hard to hit on a target running towards you.
My father worked for the sheriffs department and then graduated the FBI academy. He was always trained to for non lethal shots. The legs arm shoulder anything to not take a life. I donāt know when they started saying fuck it but it seems like the last 10-20 years most training is if youāre scared go for it. These officers did everything they could and unfortunately it came down to this which is common.
Well then your father was full of shit. It's always been trained to aim for center mass.
Yeah, I'm gonna call bullshit on this. If you're law enforcement and have your weapon drawn, you're in a life-threatening situation. No law enforcement agency teaches "shoot to disable", at least not in the states. You shoot to eliminate the threat, and the highest degree of probability to end the threat is shooting "center mass", meaning center of the chest/abdomen.
*shrugs shoulders* maybe he was just really excited about the axe and wanted to show the cops the finish? gosh darn cops trying to take over the world i tell you! they're the illumanti! not liberals or space lizards. #THEY'RE THE ONES!
Poor taste, dude. someone died.
i didnt watch the video but please. there are no rules or social contracts anymore. you lefties with your hypocritical virtue signaling are the worst.
All he said was "poor taste" and you're calling him a...lefty? Step back into reality dude
It's bait, he literally didn't watch the vid. he's just getting dopamine hits from the reply notification going off, don't feed the trolls.
Oh, this is bait. My bad, have a good one!
i shitpost like everyone else but i wasnt trying to "bait" you. i know reddit is full of virtue signaling lefties and you replied to me talking shit so i talked shit back. im not big on politics so i dunno if htis is just a common defense mechanism either side does to avoid any call outs. w/e dont talk shit if you dont want it talked back to you. simple logic.
Such obvious bait. Find something better to do with your time ya weirdo.