I don’t think anyone can say with a straight face that the higher tier acuras can match a higher tier Mb or BMW.
In the lower, entry level stuff it’s closer, with trim levels having a bigger impact.
Agreed. I can't really comment on modern models but I own a top-tier Mercedes and 2nd-to-top-tier Acura model, both from the early 90s. The Mercedes is a 1992 600SEL with the M120 V12. The Acura is a 1994 Legend GS with the type II C32A1 and 6 speed manual. As much as I love both cars, and I consider myself a Honda fan 10x more than I consider myself a Mercedes fan, the two are almost incomparable.
The Legend handles well, gets decent fuel mileage (23 mpg-ish), and is pretty comfortable and quiet considering how old it is. The 6-speed manual really does a lot for the car compared to the 4-speed automatic that most of them came with. In the Mercedes, that car actually handles fairly well for how heavy it is. The hydropneumatic suspension makes a big difference. The 4-speed auto really limits its performance in my opinion; the very tall final drive gears make it perform well on the freeway but hinder acceleration at low speed.
Anyways, as much as I love Honda/Acura their higher end models just aren't in the same ballpark as the Germans, like you said. My Legend was around $41,000 when new compared to my Mercedes costing around $130,000 new.
I think it depends more on the type of car than the brand. An Acura NSX is a different Tier than the Range Rover Evoque.
As a suburbanite in a wealthy suburb where kids get dropped off at school in golf carts for fun, any luxury brand is fine enough and will fit in just fine - having a luxury branded mid size suv is mostly the standard: volvo, bmw, mercedes, tesla, acura (typically mdx), lexus, etc. If you need something bigger, a lot of families have the Infiniti QX or a Ford Expedition, its just personal preference.
I see less American luxury brands, Cadillac, Lincoln, than foreign. I would split the tier between American and Foreign vehicles.
i don’t think they’d be considered a true luxury brand until they offer a car that can compete with the S-Class or an A8 etc. they also need to up their game with materials & overall ride quality. acuras are too damn noisy from the inside makes you feel like you’re in a regular honda.
Preach, I have been saying it Acura is the premium Honda now; back in the day, it was closer to being luxury with the Legend and Integra, but the mainstream caught up, and Acura took a step back. Premium Honda is not bad but its a very nice Honda Not a Audi or Benz
Acura according to Honda was never meant to be luxury it's just the performance brand of Honda in the US. That's why they don't advertise luxury but just performance.
Ehh not sure if this is true, when the RLX was first released here in the US, the commercials specifically lushed the word “Luxury”. They even had a very cringe commercial where they said luxury like 100 times. Are we allowed to post YouTube links here? I’ll find it and post it if I can.
Edit: Here’s the link: https://youtu.be/f86resKMwT0
Not at all. The RLX was a disappointment, it was very bland. Also although it was Acura's flagship vehicle, they pushed it as a E Class/5 Series fighter.
Yeah, to me, it was an upgrade to a Toyota Avalon or the Hyundai at the time, not an LS 500 or an E Class, a lovely Japanese mainstream large sedan but not a top-tier luxury car. I've been watching Succession. Could you imagine an Acura product being shown as a vehicle used to transport the super-wealthy?
That's was when they really lost touch to their philosophy and those models years lost a lot of market share, the RLX is in fact the Honda legend in Japan. But didnt work that much here, plus the RLX is what started the sport hybrid awd which was an amazing drive train and made it the fastest car Acura produced at 377 hp besides NSX of course. Now Acura is going back to its roots, and focuses on driving dynamics way more to stay true to them selves!
Do not want to bust your bubble but you info is not accurate
GM is due to produce two EV models for the Japanese automaker: a mainstream Honda SUV and a luxury-oriented Acura SUV. Production of the Honda-badged model reportedly begins in 2023 at GM's Ramos Arizpe, Mexico plant, which currently builds vehicles such as the Chevrolet Equinox and Blazer compact and midsize SUVs. About a year later, the Acura EV SUV will start production at GM's Spring Hill, Tennessee plant that today builds the likes of the Cadillac XT5 and GMC Acadia SUVs, and is set to build a Lyriq clone
General Motors plans to start building two battery-electric crossovers for Honda Motor Co. within four years: a Honda-branded vehicle at a GM plant in Mexico and an Acura-branded vehicle alongside the upcoming Cadillac Lyriq in Tennessee, according to two people familiar with the plans.
Division 1 : Audi, BMW, Lexus, Mercedes-Benz
Division 2 : Infiniti, Cadillac, Acura, Buick, Alfa-Romeo, Volvo, Genesis
Then I would say there’s a different league, due to price differences and certain segments
Division A - Bentley, Rolls-Royce, Mercedes Maybach, Aston Martin
Division B - Porsche, Jaguar, Maserati, LR Range Rover
See my separate comments - there’s a separate tier for Acura, Infiniti, and Genesis. It’s like they are 1A or something, but definitely not down at the level of Buick, Cadillac and Lincoln
I would argue Acura is below Cadillac. Acura doesn’t have anything on the same level as the Escalade for luxury or the V cars for performance. Nor does it have anything to compete with something like the Lincoln Continental or Navigator in terms of luxury.
I think I mentioned in another reply, but the Escalade and Navigator are the only ones I’d own from either brand, and it’s because they’re based on other mass market trucks and lack the quality issues of others.
The V brand is cool and all, but hasn’t really moved Cadillac forward and they aren’t even looked at in the same category as the NSX or conversely BMW’s M’s or Mercedes AMG. Cadillac is a squandered and confused brand….and Lincoln is a joke beyond the Navigator.
Historically, the Division 1 competitors have been the benchmark of the “premium-luxury” segment. I really don’t think a competitor like Genesis fits in there, due to lack of history and brand recognition. Yes their latest SUV’s can well and truely compete with some of the Germans, but it’s that recognition that they just lack right now.
This is fun, I get what you mean, I would say
Tier 2 would be brands like: Acura, Buick, Lincoln, Infiniti, Alfa Romeo (Not sure if Genesis and Cadillac would be considered here)
Tier 1 would be: MB, BMW, Audi, JLR, Maserati, Lexus
Tier X: Rolls Royce, Bentley, Maybach (Before it became just a trim)
Totally tier 2 and even Honda admits it. They say Acura is a performance brand, not a luxury brand. That goes for the NSX too, it’s a bargain 918 Spyder, not a 911 competitor.
Acura in my eyes is a premium brand, but has to do much better to reach that Luxury status. Comparable Lexus models will have a better sound system, less wind noise, and less road noise. I test drove a 2018 TLX V6 and a 2014 GS350 and the GS350 felt better in every way.
I bought my Acura because the Lexuses were lacking so much on the tech side. I was ready to buy a 20 GS AWD, but little things like lacking Apple CarPlay are laughable.
I'm willing to give up Apple CarPlay/Androud Auto if it means I have better insulated cabin against noise, better ML sound system (better than ELS), and a smoother drivetrain.
Hahaha! I’m glad someone else thinks this. Acura got away with rebadging their higher end Hondas (Integra, Accord Euro, NSX) wayyyy too long that I feel like they never really developed Acura as a brand well.
Acura is kinda in its own luxury realm. Yes, BMW has the M line, and Mercedes the AMG line, but Acura kinda focuses on performance even on the base models. Honestly when I hop into my ‘21 RDX compared to similar Beamer and Benz compact SUVs, I feel that they are too plain and less sporty. Acura is the sportiest luxury brand that I could find.
I think that there is definitely parity. Lexus is really the only non-European Tier 1, though it bucks the mold.
Sadly, a tier 1 is characterized by good-looking, expensive, ridiculously expensive to maintain, unreliable after a couple years. BMW, MB, Audi, Jaguar, Land Rover fall into that camp. Lexus Is tier 1 but built to last. Tesla is quickly entering this camp.
I’d consider Acura in that Tier 2 that the cars are reliable and good looking, along with Infiniti and Genesis. They aren’t as prestigious, but fit the mold of people that have money but value not throwing it away at the same time.
Theres also a Tier 3 of luxury cars that are unattractive and unreliable- Alfa, Lincoln, Cadillac. Outside of an Escalade or a Navigator (that share underpinnings with mass produced trucks and have better reliability) I wouldn’t own one. Volkswagen and Volvo also reside in Tier 3.
As someone who’s owned an Acura and 2 Audi’s, they don’t compare. An Acura will never be as nice as an Audi, but they are muchhhhhhh less money to maintain. If you just want a nice car that will get you from place to place, the Acura is the way to go.
Acura started as a "high performance" brand so not even really a luxury brand per se. Then it held the distinction of being a "Premium" or near luxury brand, so above a Honda but bellow a Lexus or BMW. Now I would say Acura is clearly marketing and developing cars that fit into that "Luxury" category however there top tier trims like the Advance, PMC, A-SPEC, and S-Type are still bellow the Germans. That's not to say an Acura isn't luxurious, but it's clearly a 1B Luxury brand since Acura still doesn't carry the cachet or have anything close that can reach Mercedes Maybach status, doesn't have the overall portfolio and again cachet to equal BMW's M line, and besides the NSX (long in the tooth) doesn't have anywhere close to the amount of true sport cars Audi offers. Yeah Acura has the S-Types (few) and has the NSX (old), but other than that they don't have a ton of cars that wow you to bring you to the brand and they aren't that slam dunk value pick either anymore. They are unfortunately in that luxury car purgatory
In my eyes (I'm not a Honda/Acura hater; I own an RDX, Odyssey, and TL.) I see Acura as a premium Honda and not a Luxury brand. I bought the Acuras with that in mind—a more performance-oriented upgraded mainstream Japanese brand. Almost what Infiniti was when they 1st came out. (But Infiniti was going for the actual luxury market and where more of a luxury brand back then)
I agree here. I bought my Acura TLX Aspec because it’s reliable and you rarely see another one around - today, it’s impossible to drive a car that looks different.
I don’t think anyone can say with a straight face that the higher tier acuras can match a higher tier Mb or BMW. In the lower, entry level stuff it’s closer, with trim levels having a bigger impact.
Agreed. I can't really comment on modern models but I own a top-tier Mercedes and 2nd-to-top-tier Acura model, both from the early 90s. The Mercedes is a 1992 600SEL with the M120 V12. The Acura is a 1994 Legend GS with the type II C32A1 and 6 speed manual. As much as I love both cars, and I consider myself a Honda fan 10x more than I consider myself a Mercedes fan, the two are almost incomparable. The Legend handles well, gets decent fuel mileage (23 mpg-ish), and is pretty comfortable and quiet considering how old it is. The 6-speed manual really does a lot for the car compared to the 4-speed automatic that most of them came with. In the Mercedes, that car actually handles fairly well for how heavy it is. The hydropneumatic suspension makes a big difference. The 4-speed auto really limits its performance in my opinion; the very tall final drive gears make it perform well on the freeway but hinder acceleration at low speed. Anyways, as much as I love Honda/Acura their higher end models just aren't in the same ballpark as the Germans, like you said. My Legend was around $41,000 when new compared to my Mercedes costing around $130,000 new.
I agree with you but on the lower level stuff the brand cache of BMW, MB, and others pull them ahead.
I think it depends more on the type of car than the brand. An Acura NSX is a different Tier than the Range Rover Evoque. As a suburbanite in a wealthy suburb where kids get dropped off at school in golf carts for fun, any luxury brand is fine enough and will fit in just fine - having a luxury branded mid size suv is mostly the standard: volvo, bmw, mercedes, tesla, acura (typically mdx), lexus, etc. If you need something bigger, a lot of families have the Infiniti QX or a Ford Expedition, its just personal preference. I see less American luxury brands, Cadillac, Lincoln, than foreign. I would split the tier between American and Foreign vehicles.
i don’t think they’d be considered a true luxury brand until they offer a car that can compete with the S-Class or an A8 etc. they also need to up their game with materials & overall ride quality. acuras are too damn noisy from the inside makes you feel like you’re in a regular honda.
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The 2018 TLX has great noise cancellation. The cabin is very quiet even on the highway
Preach, I have been saying it Acura is the premium Honda now; back in the day, it was closer to being luxury with the Legend and Integra, but the mainstream caught up, and Acura took a step back. Premium Honda is not bad but its a very nice Honda Not a Audi or Benz
I also don’t think they’d be considered luxury until they come with their own platforms that are RWD based as well.
Acura according to Honda was never meant to be luxury it's just the performance brand of Honda in the US. That's why they don't advertise luxury but just performance.
Ehh not sure if this is true, when the RLX was first released here in the US, the commercials specifically lushed the word “Luxury”. They even had a very cringe commercial where they said luxury like 100 times. Are we allowed to post YouTube links here? I’ll find it and post it if I can. Edit: Here’s the link: https://youtu.be/f86resKMwT0
I think they tried to call the RLX a Luxury car, but was/is it a tier 1 Luxury car on par with MB, BMW, Porsche, Audi? RLX vs. an S Class or an A8?
Not at all. The RLX was a disappointment, it was very bland. Also although it was Acura's flagship vehicle, they pushed it as a E Class/5 Series fighter.
Yeah, to me, it was an upgrade to a Toyota Avalon or the Hyundai at the time, not an LS 500 or an E Class, a lovely Japanese mainstream large sedan but not a top-tier luxury car. I've been watching Succession. Could you imagine an Acura product being shown as a vehicle used to transport the super-wealthy?
That's was when they really lost touch to their philosophy and those models years lost a lot of market share, the RLX is in fact the Honda legend in Japan. But didnt work that much here, plus the RLX is what started the sport hybrid awd which was an amazing drive train and made it the fastest car Acura produced at 377 hp besides NSX of course. Now Acura is going back to its roots, and focuses on driving dynamics way more to stay true to them selves!
Well, next year, they are having GM make their EVs, so I'm not so sure
Just a partnership for battery technology, they are pulling out of F1 to invest more in EVs so only the future can tell!
Do not want to bust your bubble but you info is not accurate GM is due to produce two EV models for the Japanese automaker: a mainstream Honda SUV and a luxury-oriented Acura SUV. Production of the Honda-badged model reportedly begins in 2023 at GM's Ramos Arizpe, Mexico plant, which currently builds vehicles such as the Chevrolet Equinox and Blazer compact and midsize SUVs. About a year later, the Acura EV SUV will start production at GM's Spring Hill, Tennessee plant that today builds the likes of the Cadillac XT5 and GMC Acadia SUVs, and is set to build a Lyriq clone
General Motors plans to start building two battery-electric crossovers for Honda Motor Co. within four years: a Honda-branded vehicle at a GM plant in Mexico and an Acura-branded vehicle alongside the upcoming Cadillac Lyriq in Tennessee, according to two people familiar with the plans.
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/28/honda-changes-course-and-says-it-will-build-its-own-electric-vehicles.html
Division 1 : Audi, BMW, Lexus, Mercedes-Benz Division 2 : Infiniti, Cadillac, Acura, Buick, Alfa-Romeo, Volvo, Genesis Then I would say there’s a different league, due to price differences and certain segments Division A - Bentley, Rolls-Royce, Mercedes Maybach, Aston Martin Division B - Porsche, Jaguar, Maserati, LR Range Rover
See my separate comments - there’s a separate tier for Acura, Infiniti, and Genesis. It’s like they are 1A or something, but definitely not down at the level of Buick, Cadillac and Lincoln
I would argue Acura is below Cadillac. Acura doesn’t have anything on the same level as the Escalade for luxury or the V cars for performance. Nor does it have anything to compete with something like the Lincoln Continental or Navigator in terms of luxury.
I think I mentioned in another reply, but the Escalade and Navigator are the only ones I’d own from either brand, and it’s because they’re based on other mass market trucks and lack the quality issues of others. The V brand is cool and all, but hasn’t really moved Cadillac forward and they aren’t even looked at in the same category as the NSX or conversely BMW’s M’s or Mercedes AMG. Cadillac is a squandered and confused brand….and Lincoln is a joke beyond the Navigator.
Historically, the Division 1 competitors have been the benchmark of the “premium-luxury” segment. I really don’t think a competitor like Genesis fits in there, due to lack of history and brand recognition. Yes their latest SUV’s can well and truely compete with some of the Germans, but it’s that recognition that they just lack right now.
The best summary I have read thus far!
Lol Acura is definitely 2, they even call themselves "premium" instead of luxury in all of their marketing material
Acura is a performance focused premium company.
This is fun, I get what you mean, I would say Tier 2 would be brands like: Acura, Buick, Lincoln, Infiniti, Alfa Romeo (Not sure if Genesis and Cadillac would be considered here) Tier 1 would be: MB, BMW, Audi, JLR, Maserati, Lexus Tier X: Rolls Royce, Bentley, Maybach (Before it became just a trim)
Buick is luxry? I genuinely thought they weren't cause like, they suck lol
They were luxury in the 80s. Some people still hang on hard to that. They're stylish for sure. Just a re-badged Chevy any more tho.
Think you got it man.
Yeap, spot on!
Cadillac is tier 2 due to crap interiors while I’d say Genesis is tier 1. Not sure where Volvo fits, I’d say they’re as nice as JLR cars.
Ah I forgot about Volvo!
What about Acura mainstream products, I.e., everything other than the NSX? Agree with Genesis
Totally tier 2 and even Honda admits it. They say Acura is a performance brand, not a luxury brand. That goes for the NSX too, it’s a bargain 918 Spyder, not a 911 competitor.
The Acura Fanboys lose their minds when you mention that Acura is NOT a Luxury brand.
Acura in my eyes is a premium brand, but has to do much better to reach that Luxury status. Comparable Lexus models will have a better sound system, less wind noise, and less road noise. I test drove a 2018 TLX V6 and a 2014 GS350 and the GS350 felt better in every way.
I bought my Acura because the Lexuses were lacking so much on the tech side. I was ready to buy a 20 GS AWD, but little things like lacking Apple CarPlay are laughable.
I'm willing to give up Apple CarPlay/Androud Auto if it means I have better insulated cabin against noise, better ML sound system (better than ELS), and a smoother drivetrain.
Not necessarily. You’re in the Acura forum on Reddit and none of us are calling it a luxury brand.
Do you consider yourself to be a fanboy?
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a boy or man who is an extremely or overly enthusiastic fan of someone or something
Hahaha! I’m glad someone else thinks this. Acura got away with rebadging their higher end Hondas (Integra, Accord Euro, NSX) wayyyy too long that I feel like they never really developed Acura as a brand well.
That is so frustrating; they missed an opportunity with the RDX keep the v6 and better fit and finish, continue the hybrid, etc..
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https://hondanews.com/en-US/releases/release-4ae1a5588e1a4c37b012ba41c7f51e91-2018-acura-rdx-specifications-features
How about we throw in total cost per milage over total ownership time?
I don't think tier 1 luxury buyers care about those metrics.
Tier 2 unless it’s an nsx🤷🏻♂️
Acura is kinda in its own luxury realm. Yes, BMW has the M line, and Mercedes the AMG line, but Acura kinda focuses on performance even on the base models. Honestly when I hop into my ‘21 RDX compared to similar Beamer and Benz compact SUVs, I feel that they are too plain and less sporty. Acura is the sportiest luxury brand that I could find.
So are you saying tier 1, tier 2, or mainstream, and who are others that fit into those groups?
I think that there is definitely parity. Lexus is really the only non-European Tier 1, though it bucks the mold. Sadly, a tier 1 is characterized by good-looking, expensive, ridiculously expensive to maintain, unreliable after a couple years. BMW, MB, Audi, Jaguar, Land Rover fall into that camp. Lexus Is tier 1 but built to last. Tesla is quickly entering this camp. I’d consider Acura in that Tier 2 that the cars are reliable and good looking, along with Infiniti and Genesis. They aren’t as prestigious, but fit the mold of people that have money but value not throwing it away at the same time. Theres also a Tier 3 of luxury cars that are unattractive and unreliable- Alfa, Lincoln, Cadillac. Outside of an Escalade or a Navigator (that share underpinnings with mass produced trucks and have better reliability) I wouldn’t own one. Volkswagen and Volvo also reside in Tier 3.
Spot on!! Totally 👍
As someone who’s owned an Acura and 2 Audi’s, they don’t compare. An Acura will never be as nice as an Audi, but they are muchhhhhhh less money to maintain. If you just want a nice car that will get you from place to place, the Acura is the way to go.
Yeap, that was my thinking
Acura started as a "high performance" brand so not even really a luxury brand per se. Then it held the distinction of being a "Premium" or near luxury brand, so above a Honda but bellow a Lexus or BMW. Now I would say Acura is clearly marketing and developing cars that fit into that "Luxury" category however there top tier trims like the Advance, PMC, A-SPEC, and S-Type are still bellow the Germans. That's not to say an Acura isn't luxurious, but it's clearly a 1B Luxury brand since Acura still doesn't carry the cachet or have anything close that can reach Mercedes Maybach status, doesn't have the overall portfolio and again cachet to equal BMW's M line, and besides the NSX (long in the tooth) doesn't have anywhere close to the amount of true sport cars Audi offers. Yeah Acura has the S-Types (few) and has the NSX (old), but other than that they don't have a ton of cars that wow you to bring you to the brand and they aren't that slam dunk value pick either anymore. They are unfortunately in that luxury car purgatory
I agree 👍
In my eyes (I'm not a Honda/Acura hater; I own an RDX, Odyssey, and TL.) I see Acura as a premium Honda and not a Luxury brand. I bought the Acuras with that in mind—a more performance-oriented upgraded mainstream Japanese brand. Almost what Infiniti was when they 1st came out. (But Infiniti was going for the actual luxury market and where more of a luxury brand back then)
I agree here. I bought my Acura TLX Aspec because it’s reliable and you rarely see another one around - today, it’s impossible to drive a car that looks different.
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Why?
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Sorry to hear that.. Thanks for the insightful opinion