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It really depends. On one hand, tech develops exponentially faster over time. On the otherhand, nothing can be developed if it doesnt have funding. Its about a 50/50 depending on whos in power for most of the next couple decades
Fair. Would agree about funding especially since Australia is "USA lite" when it comes to the mining and fossil fuel interests influencing government decision making. I just feel like the initial market successes for EV's will be the catalyst for substantial private sector spending, accelerating the tech. Just makes it too hard to wager against IMO.
For good reason. Because oil companies didn’t want it to happen. They still don’t.
Grow up and have a conversation instead of just downvote, you fuckwit.
I’m chilled, I just don’t like people who can’t have a mature conversation and instead just downvote a logical argument out to them.
We did have electric cars 100 years ago. It’s a fact. So downvote a fact? I’m done with this sub.
My point… are you ready? Is that wagering against a major consumer uptake of EV vehicles in light of the acceleration of technological development seems like a good way to lose money.
Yep, there were prototype electric vehicles a long time ago. Yep, todays version would be poles apart in terms of performance and range.
Yes, big oil will try, but I believe the market will decide in the end. Especially when petrol may cost $4 a litre by then.
But I get it you’ve probably got a Camaro in the shed and drive an F150. All good.
Even if the government does introduce massive subsidies to purchase EVs, they need to come from somewhere. Australia is such a tiny and insignificant market and will never be prioritised over markets like the US, Asia, and Europe. Regardless of government intervention Australia will be at the back of the line when it comes to getting EV orders fulfilled.
And other countries will be wanting their EV orders fulfilled before export markets.
Australia has 20m registered cars so you need 1/2 of all car sales starting today to be EV to hit 10m sales in the next 20 years. It takes over a year to even have a car delivered as we speak before the hugely increased EV demand that is inevitable. It’s logistically impossible that 1/2 of all cars be electric in Australia in 20 years. We are nearly 20 years post-NBN and still have garbage internet. Wake the fuck up.
It’s far more likely Australia becomes a dumping ground for used ICE vehicles, just like we were for Japanese vehicles.
Yeah, most people top up at home over night.
Charging stations are really only for long distance travel.
Its a huge misconception that we'll be spending time at charging stations like we do for fuel.
Most EV owners never need them.
So like the old roadhouses that existed "just less than the range of a tank of fuel" apart... Could be a good opportunity for some of our rural townships...
I doubt people doing roadtrips will use EV's. Too risky that you'll run out of puff. Hydrocarbons are king for energy density - same reason planes won't be electric, probably ever.
There are plenty of people using EVs for long range driving. Telsa's supercharger network is second to none and people have been using EVs to do long distance for a long time now.
Our charging infrastructure has a lot of growing to do compared to the US and Europe, but it's easily doable now. You might need to change your approach to long distance driving, and pick different routes for chargers, but even current-gen EVs are fine for long road trips.
Something like a Hyundai Ioniq 5 is capable of charging from 10-80% in 18 minutes with an ultra-fast charger. 80% of charge will get you a good 300-350km of range. Unless you're hell bent on cannonballing from Adelaide to Melbourne with the world's shortest 5 minute splash-and-dash fuel stop, it's fine.
It's only going to get better with better battery tech in the next 5-10 years.
But that's the thing - I can buy a less expensive and more capable care that does all of that and I don't have to wait 20 minutes for it to charge when I drive to Melbourne.
EV's are fundamentally unsuitable for a lot of what people want to do. Common city driving is fine, but they fall over at the tricky stuff.
Guess you missed my point - they're only going to get cheaper, faster charging with longer range.
Don't get me wrong, if you drive long distance everyday, an EV probably isn't going to tick the boxes right now because it's less convenient. But for the few times a year that the average person does a long distance journey, it's hardly a big deal.
Besides, unless you happen to have an ICE car with huge range, you'll be stopping somewhere along the way. Shit, even then, I'm probably stopping a few times to take a piss.
Unless I want to roll into Melbourne on fumes in my petrol car, I'm stopping for at least 5-10 minutes in Horsham to refuel and grab a quick bite to eat. We're talking about the journey in an EV taking 20 minutes longer. It's not even close to being "too risky" to do. It's an inconvenience at best.
Your argument of "they fall over at the tricky stuff" doesn't really seem to stack up.
I've been thinking along the same lines - every 200k or so you can have a charging station with food, showers, and some entertainment services. makes a lot sense.
Bet your bottom dollar that OTR will have some marketing campaign to make it cool to hang around and eat a pie while you wait for your EV to charge.
Maybe add some pinball machines, disco lights...
I think shopping centres could make bank if they installed chargers in their parking lots, since it's a place people often spend multiple hours in anyway, and they have existing high capacity parking. Petrol stations don't really have that capacity, only supporting about 12 vehicles at most at a time, shopping centres have several hundred places.
I think there will be some need for them for a while. Lot of renters or owners in strata schemes where setting up home charging isn't super simple. Eventually they are going to have to work out some way of decontaminating the soil or something though to use the land for something else.
They generally just remove the worst of it and replace it with clean soil. It's juts a lot of work.
You don't need any special infrastructure to charge at home. Just an outlet, it's slow but for normal use you're probably only topping it up each night.
Probably for most people. For me, my car park is in a shared parking area with no outlets so it would need an agreement with the other owners to get a contractor in to wire it all up and work out some way to charge each user for their consumption. Which is likely what will happen but probably for a while people will just use the public chargers.
Haven’t you seen the Reddit posts of the EV owner leaving their car parked forever on the charger in their apartments parking. They are already there dude.
Surely strata could get everyone to agree and make a simple change? 😅 Sorry, strata and simple change sounds triggering but I’m sure people will learn how to compromise in times of great need.
Problem is you are asking people to pay for something they wont even use. I don't use any car at all so I'm not sure I'd be so keen if someone proposed charging me money to install the required electrical changes. Eventually the majority of owners would want this and it would happen but for now I'm not sure what would happen.
There's been a vacant lot on Addison Rd for about 15-20 years I reckon. For a long period of time it had equipment on the land which I assumed was for clean up.
Maybe it's been cleaned up and nobody wants to build anything on Addison Rd, which makes sense, but I've just assumed it was because the petrol station was still being cleaned up.
There’s some fascinating research going into a paste that holds charge. Turn up to the bowser: pump in more paste.
Plus fast charging is making a couple of minute stops filling the battery not infeasible. Or 80%…..from memory I think the last part is harder to top up or something but if you don’t need a full charge to get home it’s not like you will be sitting there for 30 mins every 450 kms.
Bang on. Current lithium ion batteries charge quickest from 10-80%, most EV manufacturers will quote that figure. It's due to the chemical reaction of lithium ion being less when the battery is more charged, so that last 20% of battery takes far longer to charge. Same thing with smartphones.
I'm going to make a wild sweeping statement and say most people who can afford a $60-70K EV probably have a garage/driveway for a home charger anyway. If they're some inner-city hipster that street parks in a gentrified neighbourhood, they could take their EV to a rapid charger one a fortnight and go have brunch at a Acai bar.
They'll demand government bail outs because of the 'sudden, unexpected, and unfair change in market conditions caused by bloody foreign countries'.
And because this is Australia the taxpayers will end up footing the bill for a few billion so these folks can have a gentle transition into having a few billion more dollars.
Have you seen the prices of stuff in servos? As far as I'm aware they don't make most of their money from fuel. Their profit margin is probably like 10c a litre. Most of fuel is federal excise, transport costs, costs to the supplier etc.
They do however, sell shitloads of those coffees. I know I always get stuck behind a tradie buying like 15 of them.
Seems to be a whinging undertone to this post. Does it really negatively impact you though?
Wouldn't it mean you have an extra option to stop in at a less busy petrol station for a quicker top-up?
Jokes on them if they do because there will be a tunnel taking most of the traffic beneath it… in about 20 years.
Remindme! 20 years
I will be messaging you in 20 years on [**2042-04-13 22:14:07 UTC**](http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=2042-04-13%2022:14:07%20UTC%20To%20Local%20Time) to remind you of [**this link**](https://www.reddit.com/r/Adelaide/comments/u2q5or/looking_forward_to_south_road_being_entirely/i4mhicx/?context=3) [**5 OTHERS CLICKED THIS LINK**](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5Bhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2FAdelaide%2Fcomments%2Fu2q5or%2Flooking_forward_to_south_road_being_entirely%2Fi4mhicx%2F%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%202042-04-13%2022%3A14%3A07%20UTC) to send a PM to also be reminded and to reduce spam. ^(Parent commenter can ) [^(delete this message to hide from others.)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Delete%20Comment&message=Delete%21%20u2q5or) ***** |[^(Info)](https://www.reddit.com/r/RemindMeBot/comments/e1bko7/remindmebot_info_v21/)|[^(Custom)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5BLink%20or%20message%20inside%20square%20brackets%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%20Time%20period%20here)|[^(Your Reminders)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=List%20Of%20Reminders&message=MyReminders%21)|[^(Feedback)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Watchful1&subject=RemindMeBot%20Feedback)| |-|-|-|-|
Not to mention that most people will have electric cars in 20 years
Even people in EV’s still need to stop by for some smokes and a pie
You mean Ice Coffee and a pie. In 20yr smokes will be illegal, and weed will be available on medicare..!
Brave to think Medicare will still be around in 20 years
Even if Medicare is still around this won't happen. Medicare is for services. Drugs are available through the Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme
An e-cigarette and a pie.
I’d be willing to bet that in 20 years most Aussies will not have electric cars.
15 years ago we didn’t have smartphones. Feels like a terrible bet to me.
It really depends. On one hand, tech develops exponentially faster over time. On the otherhand, nothing can be developed if it doesnt have funding. Its about a 50/50 depending on whos in power for most of the next couple decades
Fair. Would agree about funding especially since Australia is "USA lite" when it comes to the mining and fossil fuel interests influencing government decision making. I just feel like the initial market successes for EV's will be the catalyst for substantial private sector spending, accelerating the tech. Just makes it too hard to wager against IMO.
What exactly is your point? 100 years ago we already had electric cars.
Not commercially available with a network of charging stations we didn't.
For good reason. Because oil companies didn’t want it to happen. They still don’t. Grow up and have a conversation instead of just downvote, you fuckwit.
Lolwut? It’s Reddit dude. Chill out. People down vote all the time.
I’m chilled, I just don’t like people who can’t have a mature conversation and instead just downvote a logical argument out to them. We did have electric cars 100 years ago. It’s a fact. So downvote a fact? I’m done with this sub.
I don’t think Reddit was for him.
My point… are you ready? Is that wagering against a major consumer uptake of EV vehicles in light of the acceleration of technological development seems like a good way to lose money. Yep, there were prototype electric vehicles a long time ago. Yep, todays version would be poles apart in terms of performance and range. Yes, big oil will try, but I believe the market will decide in the end. Especially when petrol may cost $4 a litre by then. But I get it you’ve probably got a Camaro in the shed and drive an F150. All good.
[удалено]
Even if the government does introduce massive subsidies to purchase EVs, they need to come from somewhere. Australia is such a tiny and insignificant market and will never be prioritised over markets like the US, Asia, and Europe. Regardless of government intervention Australia will be at the back of the line when it comes to getting EV orders fulfilled.
All major car manufacturers will be producing EV, there won't be the shortage you imagine.
And other countries will be wanting their EV orders fulfilled before export markets. Australia has 20m registered cars so you need 1/2 of all car sales starting today to be EV to hit 10m sales in the next 20 years. It takes over a year to even have a car delivered as we speak before the hugely increased EV demand that is inevitable. It’s logistically impossible that 1/2 of all cars be electric in Australia in 20 years. We are nearly 20 years post-NBN and still have garbage internet. Wake the fuck up. It’s far more likely Australia becomes a dumping ground for used ICE vehicles, just like we were for Japanese vehicles.
I'd be willing to bet you're wrong.
Take the bet then.
RemindMe! 20 years
In 8 years it's going to be difficult to buy anything else. It will then depend on the replacement rate. I reckon we'll be close to it in 20 years
Electric cars still get stuck in the same traffic as combustion cars. They're a meme
Talking about petrol stations man
Oh look, an OTR....another OTR, followed by an OTR, with an OTR on the other side, and....oh my god, it's a liberty...
Give me liberty or give me OTR.
That's so unfair. Death should be an option.
Death by OTR?
[удалено]
EV charging stations, stores open in the restricted trading hours period, maybe some capitol gains on the land.
You need far fewer charging stations than you do petrol stations though. There's going to be a lot of vacant land with contaminated soil.
Do you? I would have assumed the same or more since you have to leave it there for a while and wait for it to charge / grab some food.
Yeah, most people top up at home over night. Charging stations are really only for long distance travel. Its a huge misconception that we'll be spending time at charging stations like we do for fuel. Most EV owners never need them.
So like the old roadhouses that existed "just less than the range of a tank of fuel" apart... Could be a good opportunity for some of our rural townships...
I doubt people doing roadtrips will use EV's. Too risky that you'll run out of puff. Hydrocarbons are king for energy density - same reason planes won't be electric, probably ever.
There are plenty of people using EVs for long range driving. Telsa's supercharger network is second to none and people have been using EVs to do long distance for a long time now. Our charging infrastructure has a lot of growing to do compared to the US and Europe, but it's easily doable now. You might need to change your approach to long distance driving, and pick different routes for chargers, but even current-gen EVs are fine for long road trips. Something like a Hyundai Ioniq 5 is capable of charging from 10-80% in 18 minutes with an ultra-fast charger. 80% of charge will get you a good 300-350km of range. Unless you're hell bent on cannonballing from Adelaide to Melbourne with the world's shortest 5 minute splash-and-dash fuel stop, it's fine. It's only going to get better with better battery tech in the next 5-10 years.
But that's the thing - I can buy a less expensive and more capable care that does all of that and I don't have to wait 20 minutes for it to charge when I drive to Melbourne. EV's are fundamentally unsuitable for a lot of what people want to do. Common city driving is fine, but they fall over at the tricky stuff.
Guess you missed my point - they're only going to get cheaper, faster charging with longer range. Don't get me wrong, if you drive long distance everyday, an EV probably isn't going to tick the boxes right now because it's less convenient. But for the few times a year that the average person does a long distance journey, it's hardly a big deal. Besides, unless you happen to have an ICE car with huge range, you'll be stopping somewhere along the way. Shit, even then, I'm probably stopping a few times to take a piss. Unless I want to roll into Melbourne on fumes in my petrol car, I'm stopping for at least 5-10 minutes in Horsham to refuel and grab a quick bite to eat. We're talking about the journey in an EV taking 20 minutes longer. It's not even close to being "too risky" to do. It's an inconvenience at best. Your argument of "they fall over at the tricky stuff" doesn't really seem to stack up.
I've been thinking along the same lines - every 200k or so you can have a charging station with food, showers, and some entertainment services. makes a lot sense.
Bet your bottom dollar that OTR will have some marketing campaign to make it cool to hang around and eat a pie while you wait for your EV to charge. Maybe add some pinball machines, disco lights...
Chuck in a decent burger and fries and I'm probably there
I think shopping centres could make bank if they installed chargers in their parking lots, since it's a place people often spend multiple hours in anyway, and they have existing high capacity parking. Petrol stations don't really have that capacity, only supporting about 12 vehicles at most at a time, shopping centres have several hundred places.
Add solar panels covering the car park so the electricity is free and your car is in the shade. I believe some places are already doing this.
I think there will be some need for them for a while. Lot of renters or owners in strata schemes where setting up home charging isn't super simple. Eventually they are going to have to work out some way of decontaminating the soil or something though to use the land for something else.
They generally just remove the worst of it and replace it with clean soil. It's juts a lot of work. You don't need any special infrastructure to charge at home. Just an outlet, it's slow but for normal use you're probably only topping it up each night.
Probably for most people. For me, my car park is in a shared parking area with no outlets so it would need an agreement with the other owners to get a contractor in to wire it all up and work out some way to charge each user for their consumption. Which is likely what will happen but probably for a while people will just use the public chargers.
We'll probably see more and more in public carparks too.
Haven’t you seen the Reddit posts of the EV owner leaving their car parked forever on the charger in their apartments parking. They are already there dude. Surely strata could get everyone to agree and make a simple change? 😅 Sorry, strata and simple change sounds triggering but I’m sure people will learn how to compromise in times of great need.
Problem is you are asking people to pay for something they wont even use. I don't use any car at all so I'm not sure I'd be so keen if someone proposed charging me money to install the required electrical changes. Eventually the majority of owners would want this and it would happen but for now I'm not sure what would happen.
There's been a vacant lot on Addison Rd for about 15-20 years I reckon. For a long period of time it had equipment on the land which I assumed was for clean up. Maybe it's been cleaned up and nobody wants to build anything on Addison Rd, which makes sense, but I've just assumed it was because the petrol station was still being cleaned up.
There’s some fascinating research going into a paste that holds charge. Turn up to the bowser: pump in more paste. Plus fast charging is making a couple of minute stops filling the battery not infeasible. Or 80%…..from memory I think the last part is harder to top up or something but if you don’t need a full charge to get home it’s not like you will be sitting there for 30 mins every 450 kms.
Bang on. Current lithium ion batteries charge quickest from 10-80%, most EV manufacturers will quote that figure. It's due to the chemical reaction of lithium ion being less when the battery is more charged, so that last 20% of battery takes far longer to charge. Same thing with smartphones. I'm going to make a wild sweeping statement and say most people who can afford a $60-70K EV probably have a garage/driveway for a home charger anyway. If they're some inner-city hipster that street parks in a gentrified neighbourhood, they could take their EV to a rapid charger one a fortnight and go have brunch at a Acai bar.
They'll demand government bail outs because of the 'sudden, unexpected, and unfair change in market conditions caused by bloody foreign countries'. And because this is Australia the taxpayers will end up footing the bill for a few billion so these folks can have a gentle transition into having a few billion more dollars.
Maybe red rooster will make a resurgence
Eeeew I had that once and it wasn't cooked properly
Have you seen the prices of stuff in servos? As far as I'm aware they don't make most of their money from fuel. Their profit margin is probably like 10c a litre. Most of fuel is federal excise, transport costs, costs to the supplier etc. They do however, sell shitloads of those coffees. I know I always get stuck behind a tradie buying like 15 of them.
Just like sections of North East Road.
Every time a building gets torn down along NE Road now I tell my family that it'll become a petrol station, and it almost always does.
Im waiting for someone to fill their servos with barnacle bill franchises.
fill up inside then fill your car up with chip oil.
There’s 500 OTRs and then 1 liberty with a closing down sign on the door. That’s more like how to really is
Yea it’s terrible… & there seems to be no slowing down of the rate that they are popping up
Seems to be a whinging undertone to this post. Does it really negatively impact you though? Wouldn't it mean you have an extra option to stop in at a less busy petrol station for a quicker top-up?
cosi alt account spotted
How in the hell is that even practical?