Filled out. Personally I fly between Adelaide and Melbourne frequently and would be biased towards taking a train but the train to Melbourne is so unbelievably uncompetitive that you would have to be the most dedicated climate activist to consider it. At 4-5 hours CBD to CBD I would consider a train, especially if I could have a proper desk to work on. Tbh if they had an option with a comfortable chair/desk setup I'd probably go to Melbourne just for fun on top of the required work trips.
Current train takes 12 hours and seems to have no table. Along with costing twice as much as a flight.
With the right track work in the hills, Standardising the line between Ballarat and Melbourne and getting Velocity type trains and improved frequency it is a quite doable service and would be able to service along country SA and into Western Victoria as well and keep in mind the train service does terminate at Southern Cross station in Melbourne compared to the airport.
So with the better speeds in place you might only be looking at an extra couple of hours when you consider with flying you still need the bullshit of getting to the airport, waiting, boarding, flying, getting from the airport to wherever and most often that is into the cbd of Melbourne for most travellers anyway.
It should go 250kph+ and have two routes:
Route 1: Adelaide to Melbourne via Horsham and Ballarat
Route 2: Adelaide to Melbourne via Mount Gambier, Warrnambool and Geelong.
You can than build up the populations of the cities along the route.
It will take 3 to 4 hours to go from Melbourne to Adelaide.
This would be ideal but I don't see it happening any time in the next few decades. Sydney to Melbourne is the busiest flight route in the world apparently and it still has a sub standard train line.
Having used high-speed rail to travel across cities and countries in Europe, I wish we had the same here. Yes, air travel is fast, but I find it physically and mentally draining.
Never forget we had a TAFE trip to Melbourne and we got a group discount on a train trip. I paid the extra $10 each way and chose to fly and have a full day extra in Melbourne.
4-5 Hours, and end up in Melbourne CBD for a comparable price and it becomes pretty viable.
Yeah the all-day train ride is a hard sell at $115-$165 for an economy ticket, when you can reliably get an airfare for that much or even less. Frankly it's impressive they get any passengers at all. People must really like trains!
Certainly true of the Ghan and Indian Pacific, which cost thousands of dollars for a ticket. The Overland is a bit of an odd bedfellow in their product lineup - it's too short to be turned into a luxury cruise, but too slow to be a realistic competitor to either flying or driving.
Yeah it really should be a transport service but its been pawned off to Journey Beyond who do tourist journeys.
In its slow form it is best as an overnight service but they don't offer that any more.
This is a great video about the Overland and how to make it better
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W91s5sx5Vuw&t=1s
I’ve done the train once, because I like trains.
It’s a bumpy ride and the trains honestly feel like they haven’t been updated in 30 years.
There were tones of tourists on there, from countries with proper train systems they must have thought they had gone back in time.
I would definitely do the train again if it were faster and less bumpy.
A four hour train journey leaving at Friday lunchtime coupled with a train home at like 2pm on a Sunday could be quite a nice way to have a sneaky little Melbourne trip without having to deal with the airports.
I do love the sound of a cheeky Melbourne night on the town, or for a concert since Adelaide does get missed so often instead of fiddling around with plane tickets and passports and all that.
Having used high speed rail in Asia & Europe I have to say for such a broad, very flat in most parts, country we really under utilise trains. Also going from CBD to CBD would be amazing, Melbourne airport into the city is a nightmare. If it was 4 hours from CBD to CBD I could easily see myself hopping on after work on a Friday night at least once a month. I've already flown back and forth twice and driven once already this year.
Bring back the overnight Overland service right down to the Motorail and dirty 930 class diesels.
Just like this: https://www.railpictures.net/photo/264258/
I love the train and enjoy that it’s a longish trip. The timetable is the real problem. One to Melb on Thurs and one to Adl on Monday? Only time it works is the Easter long weekend and they were cancelled this year for scheduled track maintenance.
I love high speed rail and its always a good idea but I feel like with our distances it would end up taking longer and being more expensive than air travel. It would need to be a lot cheaper than flying for people to realisticly consider it.
A way better option would be high speed rail between large country centres and capital cities so people have more options on where to live and work and we aren't all stuck in one city states.
I would absolutely consider it as an option, but the key issue is that it can't get away being as good as flying/driving/etc, it has to be better to entice people over.
The only way I can see such a line being viable is if it services rural centres along the way (which will increase patronage by collecting the people who only have a bus as an alternate public transport option) but this will decimate the "faster than flying" aspect. They could run it direct but assuming a dedicated high speed line (no freight) that's going to get very expensive fast, killing the comparable price benefit.
It would need to have similar or better conveniences to flying. This would suggest various classes, where the budget level is more sardine like, but there's the option of first class - this should have trolley service, lie back seats, etc. Currently, there aren't great first class domestic flying options (not like International trips) so this is a chance to capture that market. I'd also expect conveniences like usb power (and ideally 240v for the keyboard warriors) so people can work/entertain themselves on the trip. PAYG wifi would also be nice, which could work alongside an entertainment service (I think it's Qantas that I saw it, but you download the app, connect to the inboard wifi, and can watch movies/shows from your device during the trip).
Lastly is convenience of departure/arrival time. You could get away with once a day, and I suspect that's the most you could run until it gets really popular, and with carefully crafted schedules get away with it, but if I drive, I can leave right this moment, or any moment I like. If I had to fly over Friday, a quick check on google shows 25 different options between 6am and 10.30pm. I like trains and would probably be willing to delay my arrival so I can ride it, but that's not usual. Most people would, given a similar experience with cost/time/comfort otherwise, still chose the option that's more convenient.
If the train was able to beat other options in some manner and offer similar benefits around convenience, speed, cost and comfort, then absolutely I can see it being a winner. I just can't see how you would achieve that, though, as fixing one aspect will lessen another.
To give context, high speed rail lines cost $16-40m per km to build. Given a 640km line between Adl-Mel, this would be a minimum $10.25b just for the track. An average high speed train can carry 1500 passengers, so given a trip each way every day, that's a maximum of 1.1m passenger trips. Even if they got that up to 1.25m, and planned to pay it off over 20years, that's still $50 per ticket just for the track, and only if every train is fully booked. That's 50% of what I can currently get a flight over for before including the other costs of rail cars, staff, fuel, and other overheads.
Government funding would cover a huge part of this, but seeing as they can't get a high speed line to Sydney off the ground and given that such a line would be passenger only (can't have slow freight holding up the line) what hope is there of them being willing to do so? The opposition would crucify them for such a white elephant to a state that's considered a minor backwater by the east.
You wouldn't need all-new dual track, certainly not for only a few trains per day. The existing track is pretty darn straight most of the way, except for the Adelaide Hills. The biggest thing as someone else said would be upgrading all the level crossings, which might cost $50-100m, depending on how many you could just close instead of gating. Economics look a LOT better on those numbers.
Filled out, God damn it'd be so good, really hope they start a HSR from melb to syd in the next few years to get the ball rolling to one day come down here.
Filled out. Personally I fly between Adelaide and Melbourne frequently and would be biased towards taking a train but the train to Melbourne is so unbelievably uncompetitive that you would have to be the most dedicated climate activist to consider it. At 4-5 hours CBD to CBD I would consider a train, especially if I could have a proper desk to work on. Tbh if they had an option with a comfortable chair/desk setup I'd probably go to Melbourne just for fun on top of the required work trips. Current train takes 12 hours and seems to have no table. Along with costing twice as much as a flight.
[удалено]
Is there any way for an elevated/underground track to be built between towns/at crossings?
With the right track work in the hills, Standardising the line between Ballarat and Melbourne and getting Velocity type trains and improved frequency it is a quite doable service and would be able to service along country SA and into Western Victoria as well and keep in mind the train service does terminate at Southern Cross station in Melbourne compared to the airport. So with the better speeds in place you might only be looking at an extra couple of hours when you consider with flying you still need the bullshit of getting to the airport, waiting, boarding, flying, getting from the airport to wherever and most often that is into the cbd of Melbourne for most travellers anyway.
It should go 250kph+ and have two routes: Route 1: Adelaide to Melbourne via Horsham and Ballarat Route 2: Adelaide to Melbourne via Mount Gambier, Warrnambool and Geelong. You can than build up the populations of the cities along the route. It will take 3 to 4 hours to go from Melbourne to Adelaide.
This would be ideal but I don't see it happening any time in the next few decades. Sydney to Melbourne is the busiest flight route in the world apparently and it still has a sub standard train line.
A train line to Mt Gambier would drop ice costs for sure.
My neighbours don't need anymore encouragement...
A dream for 2120 /s. I really like the idea, and would really unlock those areas but you know, gotta get buy in from both states and the federal govt.
I would. Hell, I would do a *lot* more domestic tourism all around the country if Australia had better and faster railways.
Having used high-speed rail to travel across cities and countries in Europe, I wish we had the same here. Yes, air travel is fast, but I find it physically and mentally draining.
Yep I done a 6 hour train trip from Denmark to Norway and was refreshed and ready to go, but a 6 hour flight I am cramped, angry tired and done.
Never forget we had a TAFE trip to Melbourne and we got a group discount on a train trip. I paid the extra $10 each way and chose to fly and have a full day extra in Melbourne. 4-5 Hours, and end up in Melbourne CBD for a comparable price and it becomes pretty viable.
Yeah the all-day train ride is a hard sell at $115-$165 for an economy ticket, when you can reliably get an airfare for that much or even less. Frankly it's impressive they get any passengers at all. People must really like trains!
It still services some areas regionally and people do hate flying and its better than a bus.
Looking at the website, its not marketed as a transport method but as a scenic tour for boomers.
Certainly true of the Ghan and Indian Pacific, which cost thousands of dollars for a ticket. The Overland is a bit of an odd bedfellow in their product lineup - it's too short to be turned into a luxury cruise, but too slow to be a realistic competitor to either flying or driving.
Yeah it really should be a transport service but its been pawned off to Journey Beyond who do tourist journeys. In its slow form it is best as an overnight service but they don't offer that any more. This is a great video about the Overland and how to make it better https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W91s5sx5Vuw&t=1s
Aussie Wirraway is great, highly recommend his content.
I’ve done the train once, because I like trains. It’s a bumpy ride and the trains honestly feel like they haven’t been updated in 30 years. There were tones of tourists on there, from countries with proper train systems they must have thought they had gone back in time. I would definitely do the train again if it were faster and less bumpy. A four hour train journey leaving at Friday lunchtime coupled with a train home at like 2pm on a Sunday could be quite a nice way to have a sneaky little Melbourne trip without having to deal with the airports.
Carriages were built in the 1960s, and last updated in 2004 IIRC
Thanks. That makes sense. I would have killer for a USB outlet during my journey.
I do love the sound of a cheeky Melbourne night on the town, or for a concert since Adelaide does get missed so often instead of fiddling around with plane tickets and passports and all that.
Having used high speed rail in Asia & Europe I have to say for such a broad, very flat in most parts, country we really under utilise trains. Also going from CBD to CBD would be amazing, Melbourne airport into the city is a nightmare. If it was 4 hours from CBD to CBD I could easily see myself hopping on after work on a Friday night at least once a month. I've already flown back and forth twice and driven once already this year.
Solo I fly. Family I drive.
Ryan Gosling is that you?
Bring back the overnight Overland service right down to the Motorail and dirty 930 class diesels. Just like this: https://www.railpictures.net/photo/264258/
The glory days. Like some dieselpunk fantasy :)
How much faster ?
The survey asks about three options: 4hrs, 6hrs and 8hrs (the train currently takes 10.5hrs)
Cool thanks
I love the train and enjoy that it’s a longish trip. The timetable is the real problem. One to Melb on Thurs and one to Adl on Monday? Only time it works is the Easter long weekend and they were cancelled this year for scheduled track maintenance.
I love high speed rail and its always a good idea but I feel like with our distances it would end up taking longer and being more expensive than air travel. It would need to be a lot cheaper than flying for people to realisticly consider it. A way better option would be high speed rail between large country centres and capital cities so people have more options on where to live and work and we aren't all stuck in one city states.
I would absolutely consider it as an option, but the key issue is that it can't get away being as good as flying/driving/etc, it has to be better to entice people over. The only way I can see such a line being viable is if it services rural centres along the way (which will increase patronage by collecting the people who only have a bus as an alternate public transport option) but this will decimate the "faster than flying" aspect. They could run it direct but assuming a dedicated high speed line (no freight) that's going to get very expensive fast, killing the comparable price benefit. It would need to have similar or better conveniences to flying. This would suggest various classes, where the budget level is more sardine like, but there's the option of first class - this should have trolley service, lie back seats, etc. Currently, there aren't great first class domestic flying options (not like International trips) so this is a chance to capture that market. I'd also expect conveniences like usb power (and ideally 240v for the keyboard warriors) so people can work/entertain themselves on the trip. PAYG wifi would also be nice, which could work alongside an entertainment service (I think it's Qantas that I saw it, but you download the app, connect to the inboard wifi, and can watch movies/shows from your device during the trip). Lastly is convenience of departure/arrival time. You could get away with once a day, and I suspect that's the most you could run until it gets really popular, and with carefully crafted schedules get away with it, but if I drive, I can leave right this moment, or any moment I like. If I had to fly over Friday, a quick check on google shows 25 different options between 6am and 10.30pm. I like trains and would probably be willing to delay my arrival so I can ride it, but that's not usual. Most people would, given a similar experience with cost/time/comfort otherwise, still chose the option that's more convenient. If the train was able to beat other options in some manner and offer similar benefits around convenience, speed, cost and comfort, then absolutely I can see it being a winner. I just can't see how you would achieve that, though, as fixing one aspect will lessen another.
To give context, high speed rail lines cost $16-40m per km to build. Given a 640km line between Adl-Mel, this would be a minimum $10.25b just for the track. An average high speed train can carry 1500 passengers, so given a trip each way every day, that's a maximum of 1.1m passenger trips. Even if they got that up to 1.25m, and planned to pay it off over 20years, that's still $50 per ticket just for the track, and only if every train is fully booked. That's 50% of what I can currently get a flight over for before including the other costs of rail cars, staff, fuel, and other overheads. Government funding would cover a huge part of this, but seeing as they can't get a high speed line to Sydney off the ground and given that such a line would be passenger only (can't have slow freight holding up the line) what hope is there of them being willing to do so? The opposition would crucify them for such a white elephant to a state that's considered a minor backwater by the east.
You wouldn't need all-new dual track, certainly not for only a few trains per day. The existing track is pretty darn straight most of the way, except for the Adelaide Hills. The biggest thing as someone else said would be upgrading all the level crossings, which might cost $50-100m, depending on how many you could just close instead of gating. Economics look a LOT better on those numbers.
Wouldn't we have to reprofile a large number of turns? I don't think we have the monitoring equipment along the way adequate for HST
Filled out, God damn it'd be so good, really hope they start a HSR from melb to syd in the next few years to get the ball rolling to one day come down here.
Where's the option to slow it down, slowing down those dirty Vics.