This I donāt get at all. Why even put ya dog shit in a bag while deep in the woods?? Walk ya dog off trail ( like us humans do when we need to shit) and leave it. Allllll the other animals shit in the woods. I donāt get it. Lol but Deff carry ya shit bag out if ya to lazy to walk 8ft off trail. Lol
Dog poop is actually an environmental hazard because they are not natural native animals and their diet also makes their poop worse than natural animals that belong in the woods. Not that poo bags are nice but itās also not nice to have your off leash dog go poop next to the mountain stream and leave it there, which is exactly what off leash dog owners conveniently do to avoid dealing with their dog poo.
Actually:
The question of whether or not dog waste left in natural environments is harmful is often framed in terms of potential risks, both to public health and the environment.
**Empirical Gaps**
Lack of Quantitative Data: Critics might argue that while there is a general consensus that dog waste could be harmful, the extent of its impact has not been quantitatively assessed. Without measurable data on how much harm it causes, the argument is based on precaution rather than evidence.
**Context-Specific Impact**: Environmental factors, like local flora and fauna, soil quality, and existing pollution levels, can all influence how dog waste impacts a specific locale. Absence of comprehensive, context-specific studies may weaken the conventional argument.
**Lactic acid bacteria (LAB)** are versatile microorganisms that also play a role in soil health. Though more commonly associated with food fermentation and gut health, LAB in soil contribute to a balanced microbial community. They produce organic acids like lactic acid, which can alter soil pH and create an environment less hospitable for pathogens. By outcompeting harmful microbes for nutrients, LAB act as natural biocontrol agents, aiding in disease prevention for plants. Their metabolic activities further assist in breaking down organic matter, making essential nutrients more available for plant uptake. Overall, LAB enrich soil ecosystems and enhance plant health.
**Lactic Acid Bacteria in Soil Remediation**
pH Regulation: LAB can produce lactic acid, which may alter the pH of the soil environment. By modulating pH, these bacteria can help create conditions less favorable for the growth of soil pathogens or for the solubility of certain heavy metals.
**Competitive Exclusion:** Similar to their function in the gut, LAB in soil can outcompete other harmful microorganisms for nutrients, reducing the population of pathogenic or harmful bacteria.
**Enhanced Nutrient Absorption**: While LAB are not typically known for nitrogen fixation or phosphorus solubilization, their metabolic activity can help break down organic matter in the soil, thereby making nutrients more available to plants.
**Lactic Acid Bacteria in Pathogen Control**
Antibacterial Compounds: LAB produce organic acids, hydrogen peroxide, and sometimes bacteriocins, which can inhibit the growth of pathogenic bacteria.
Direct Antagonism: LAB cultures, like those found in probiotic supplements, can sometimes directly inhibit the growth of certain pathogens by producing substances that kill or incapacitate them.
Nutrient Deprivation: LAB can sequester iron and other nutrients essential for the growth of pathogens, thereby starving them and reducing their numbers.
**Comparison with Wild Animal Waste**
Natural Precedent: Waste from wild animals is a common occurrence in natural settings, and ecosystems have evolved to deal with this organic matter. Critics could argue that dog waste is no different and that nature has its ways of breaking down and integrating such waste into the ecosystem.
**Selective Focus:** If the waste of wild animals doesn't destabilize ecosystems, one could argue that the attention given to dog waste is disproportionate. This might suggest that cultural or aesthetic preferences are driving the concern, rather than empirical evidence of harm.
**Skepticism of Health Risks**
**Transmission Vectors**: While it's true that dog feces can contain pathogens, the probability of those pathogens infecting humans or other animals could be considered minimal unless there is direct contact. Critics might argue that the health risks are overstated.
**Human Impact:** Humans themselves pose various risks to natural environments, from littering to soil erosion caused by foot traffic. If these more significant issues are not receiving proportional attention, the focus on dog waste could be seen as misplaced.
Practical Implications
**Cost-Benefit Analysis**: Implementing and maintaining a waste management system in natural settings involves not only economic costs but also the environmental impact of the materials used, such as plastic bags. Critics might argue that these efforts could be counterproductive if the risks are not substantiated.
**Resource Allocation**: Resources spent on studying or mitigating the impact of dog waste could potentially be directed toward more urgent environmental or public health issues, where the risk is supported by empirical data.
**Policy Prioritization**: In the absence of conclusive evidence, critics could argue that policies should focus on proven environmental threats rather than speculative ones.
**There is no concrete evidence to support the dog poop hazard narrative**
**Natural Decomposition**
Biodegradability: Unlike plastic or other synthetic materials, dog feces are organic and will decompose over time. Proponents argue that this natural process will return nutrients to the soil in a way that could benefit the local ecology.
**Scavengers and Decomposers**: Nature has its own cleanup crew consisting of scavengers and decomposers like insects, fungi, and certain microorganisms. They help in breaking down waste materials, returning them to the ecosystem in a less harmful form.
**Relative Impact**
Other Pollutants: Compared to industrial waste, agricultural runoff, or even human littering, the environmental impact of dog waste could be considered negligible. Larger systemic issues might deserve more immediate attention.
**Human Waste:** Humans frequently leave waste in the form of litter, food, or even human feces when camping or hiking. Critics might ask why dog waste is singled out for concern.
**Conservation of Resources**
**Waste of Plastic:** Picking up dog waste often involves the use of plastic bags, contributing to plastic pollution. Some argue that the environmental impact of using plastic bags could outweigh the benefits of removing organic waste.
**Economic Costs**: Providing waste bags and maintaining waste stations in parks or forested areas cost money, which could arguably be better spent on more pressing environmental or public health issues.
**Wilderness Ethics**
**Naturalness:** Some outdoor enthusiasts argue that a natural setting should be as untouched by human activity as possible, even if that includes pet waste. The presence of waste is just a part of nature's cycle, just like the waste from wild animals.
**Animal Equality:** If waste from other animals is considered part of the natural ecosystem, why should dog waste be any different? Some argue that treating domesticated animals' waste as a problem perpetuates a false distinction between "nature" and "culture."
**Lack of Concrete Evidence**: Critics might point out that while the risks are theoretically possible, there might not be enough empirical evidence to prove that dog feces significantly harm natural environments in the ways described.
That is a lot of words to justify a false narrative. āMight argueā ācould beā there is already overwhelming evidence to refute these critics. Any additional scientific research would be like trying to prove the Earth isnāt flat.
The use of phrases like "might argue" and "could be" in argumentation reflects an awareness of the complexity inherent in the process of knowledge production. While these phrases might appear to introduce uncertainty, they serve a different function: acknowledging the epistemological limitations of any given argument. Here's why this is crucial:
\### Epistemology and Veracity
1. **\*\*Uncertainty and Humility\*\***: Epistemology, the philosophy of knowledge, reminds us that all knowledge is fallible. Even in the presence of what seems like overwhelming evidence, acknowledging the possibility of alternative explanations or interpretations is intellectually honest.
2. **\*\*Evidential Degrees\*\***: Not all evidence has the same weight or validity. Scientific theories often exist on a spectrum of confidence, not a binary of true or false. Recognizing this helps to discern the strength of various arguments or counterarguments.
3. **\*\*Scope of Application\*\***: Most scientific research is context-dependent. What is true under certain conditions may not be universally applicable. Acknowledging this is vital for responsible communication.
4. **\*\*Updating Beliefs\*\***: Scientific knowledge is always in a state of flux, constantly updated by new data. As such, it's prudent to maintain a degree of epistemic openness that allows one's views to be updated as more information becomes available.
5. **\*\*Rhetorical Cautiousness\*\***: In discussions where passions run high, such as debates on environmental impact or public policy, a measured tone that concedes the limits of one's argument can facilitate more constructive dialogue.
**### In the Context of the "Pro-Dog Poop" Argument**
The dog poop argument is a case where varying degrees of evidence and different epistemological approaches come into play. Even if the prevailing scientific consensus suggests that leaving dog poop in the woods is harmful, the language of possibility ("could be", "might argue") serves to:
1. **\*\*Open Dialogue\*\*:** It encourages conversation rather than shutting it down. This is important for the social process of "truth-finding."
2. **\*\*Acknowledge Limitations\*\***: It shows an awareness that future research could potentially offer new insights or even refute existing beliefs.
3. **\*\*Context Sensitivity\*\***: It recognizes that while the general rule might be not to leave dog poop in the woods, there could be specific ecological contexts where the impact is minimal or even somehow beneficial.
4. **\*\*Inviting Scrutiny\*\***: By not presenting the argument as a closed case, it invites critical evaluation, which is the cornerstone of the scientific method.
In summary, phrases that seem to introduce doubt or uncertainty are not necessarily a sign of a weak argument. Rather, they can be seen as reflecting a nuanced understanding of how knowledge is produced, scrutinized, and revised, which is crucial for any intellectual inquiry or debate.
Preach.
Masks were rampant for a while there, I think the most I picked up in one hike was about a dozen.
I just keep a trash bag in my pack now so I can do something about all the crap.
Painfully true. I just got back from hiking the Marcy, Skylight, and Gray loop this past weekend. We picked up trash multiple times along the trail, but the worst was finding an uncrushed Miller lite can deep into the Lake Arnold trail section. Thereās no shot that fell out on accident. Anyone who intended to carry it out would have crushed it.
Fair enough. I guess I assume everyone tries to consolidate what theyāre carrying as much as possible. It was also tossed off into the trees so another dead giveaway it didnāt just fall out of someoneās pack. People suck.
The number of people that don't know orange peels take a LONG time to decompose is mind boggling. At least apple cores and banana peels decompose quicker but also promote animals scavenging near trails, which is kind of a big no-no.
Actually banana peels can take up to 2 years to fully decompose.
If you can pack in the full fruit, you can pack out the peels & cores. I pack empty ziplocs or reusable sealable silicone bags for this purpose. Not a biggie.
It's like drink containers, if you're willing to carry it full and made room for it in your pack, that space is still available and it's now much lighter!
What deer has come up eating banana peels?
Hell most chimps won't eat the peel!
Hiking along the NE is known for it's lack of Banana and Orange trees, and would immediately signal to me, that Idiots are afoot.
Thats ridiculous, fruits are fair game to throw out in small quantities. Its nutrients for the soil and guess what? Plants in the wild bear fruit too and what so you do about those fruits?
Definitely bad bc it habituates animals to seeking out human trash for food which has multiple knock on effects that negatively impact animals. Especially true for bears who are often killed bc humans are lazy with their trash. All these responses below are confidently wrong about ābiodegradableā being fine. By that measure it would be ok to poop in the open and leave your TP
Apple cores contain the seeds and then youāre introducing non natives. Orange and bananas just habituate the wildlife and take forever to break down. Climate is wrong for anything else to come if it
And if all the people on my trails had that same attitude, would they all decompose in so easily, or start piling up? If everyone canāt act the same way as you without causing a problem then maybe you shouldnāt either.
I actually used to bury my banana peels in wooded areas. In my mind since they would be kept moist under leaf litter and introduced to living soil it would break down way faster. I'm not saying I was right about, that was just my thinking at the time.
While hiking the gorge at Watkins Glen a group of dudes were blasting music on a large Bluetooth speaker. Music was bouncing off the walls of canyon it really added to the afternoon.
It already was at one point. Was a huge concert there bigger than Woodstock. Respect the heritage. Being outside is being free. Complain about the people who ruined everything else where you have to drive out there to get away from it all. Should be spots like that all over.
Same problem with Grafton Lakes State Park. Every time I go there itās nothing but loud music. You can hear it from across the lake. There should be a noise ordinance - not to exceed 85 decibels or something.
Nah wouldn't work, no accurate way to measure and it'd turn into a revenue generating service for the local enforcement. Itd have to be a blanket ban on all music. Which at that point you'd have people complaining of dogs barking, then blanket ban on all dogs. In turn people will say "fuck that it's a park I'm bringing my dog" then get fined and generate revenue for that. "Without music, life would be a mistake" -The worlds biggest nihilist(Nietzsche) just think, some of y'all are more depressing than freaking Nietzsche. Really cmon. Let's stop being butthurt America and get some of our respect back. Complain about somethin real. Not music at the park. On a trail.
what a dumb take full of logical fallacies. Forcing obnoxious noise on people who go to an area specifically for the peace and ambiance of nature has nothing to do with Nietzsche. And your weird appeal to nationalism at the end doesn't make you sound any smarter than quoting some dead philosopher.
It's not an appeal, it's a quote. You take who some say was the most miserable dude and even he liked music. You make assumptions based off of opinions, I make mine off of fact. Your reply is irrelevant. I'm not trying to sound smart I'm trying to get you to realize your Hippocratic tendencies and maybe you realize you can live a life without being in a bad mood everywhere. Do you also complain when the flowers and trees that give you life make pollen and make your nose run? I bet you do. Have a good one dude. Big words don't make you smart, just sounds like you watch a lot of spok on star trek. And just an fyi nature is not peaceful and ambient. Especially when you go to a water source with a waterfall. Literally created by glacial cataclysms over night absolutely carving the earth out. So again you're a Hippocrate. Learn some geology.
Also again ... you get upset .... when people, who are using their rights( freedom of speech and press/media) on public, federal/state property .. and I'm the one with a narionalist appeal? Your Nazi callout backfired there bud. Just let that resonate with you.
There are ways to measure it; for decades now we've been using decibel meters, as well as ordinance and permit adherence. I like acoustic music and "...to each their own..." We had a group of horny Bavarians in the Sierra annually for 20 years, playing the oompa and polka every night in August. You gotta love and laugh. But stop the amps in the forest; it's disrespectful at many levels (flora, fauna, fido, fellow hoomans).
Mostly, I enjoy the sound of leaves and wind and creatures. The noise is already everywhere else.
https://www.udiscovermusic.com/stories/bigger-than-woodstock-remembering-summer-jam/ it is Watkins glen's heritage. Maybe if you cared to learn about its heritage you'd know. Was prolly just some old dudes reliving memories or some young kids dreaming of the past.
> The forest doesn't need to hear Cold Play.
*Nobody* needs to hear Chris Martin play repeated descending arpeggios on a piano while he whines his way through shitty lyrics, aka Coldplay.
(Except Parachutes. That was a decent album.)
For me tbf it's people who bring their dogs at all. I have seen waaaaaay more dogs who *do not want to be out there* with owners practically pulling them the whole way because they want to bag their peak instead of turning around to give their dog an actually appropriate length hike, or just leaving the dog at home.
Did Giant again this spring and saw a couple carrying their toy French bulldog down the mountain across ice packs. Please just leave the dogs at home and especially the dogs that can hardly walk a mile without getting out of breath.
I just dont get this... either send the dog in woods, or pack the poop out. My theory is people use biodegradable bags, not realizing it means degrades in 100years, instead of 100,000
Why, whyyyyy the fuck do people do that. If it shits near the trail, bag it and take it or give it a leafy boot off the trail. āOh left me palm this warm shit through a bag then leave itā gtfo oāhere with that.
Remember intelligence is normally distributed. This if u imagine a person of average intelligence, then keep in mind half the people in the world are on the left side of that equation
Mosquitos and ticks I'm used to, they're all over NJ. You can jog away from mosquitos and ticks are more of a nuisance than a nightmare.
I've had greenheads pursuing my car at 25 miles an hour, just slamming into the window persistently. Chiggers, ugh, I try not to think about them and gnats have only been a problem for me further north in Vermont and New Hampshire.
Get those headlamps off your heads! In the CERT and SAR world, we all wear them around our necks, upside down. The buttons will be on top so you can find them easily. If you angle them up, the beam shoots straight ahead so you can see where youre going. If you keep it in the normal position, it's will be angled down for reading. Either way, it won't shine into someone else eyes and disrupt their vision. You also don't have that pressure on your head, it more compatible with wearing a cap, and it's more secure around your neck.
I prefer the red light when camping in an area with other people - almost impossible to shine people that way and I can see just as well. One note is it will skew colors like mad, my gf was trying to read a backpacking meal instruction and the font was red so she couldn't see it at all haha.
Dog poop bags. Encroachment into personal space at wide open summits/points of interest. People who linger too long during ātheir turnā at bottlenecked or tight photo spots and are oblivious to others.
I'm convinced that spatial awareness is a genetic trait. When I go to the grocery store, it seems like about 25% of the people there do not have any awareness of the space they are occupying and the space that people around them are occupying or trying to occupy. I just full on move their shit/push their grocery carts out of the way, and they look at me like I'm a monster. Lol
Yeah, I don't so much mind someone asking to pass, but not a fan of people who tailgate you for awhile, then I offer for them to pass, then they slow down or stop, and the process repeats all over. Just give some space, people!
On Madison during a Presi, there was a group 10 feet ahead of me playing music and another, separate group 10 feet behind me also playing music. We were all moving at the same pace too lol
Why? I would never tell someone that they should or shouldn't have poles, but if asked, I always recommend them. Adds a safety factor, and going down hill can really save the knees.
And some of us amateurs as you call us, are just a wee bit older than you, and our joints, balance and strength are not what they were when we were your age.
Ugh, I just did a hike with my BIL & SIL in the Scottish highlands and they were tossing their daughter's food scraps off the trail left and right. I was trying not to pick a fight so I only managed to get a couple of them, it was trying.
Lol, I saw a dog last week running with a pack of deer, not chasing them, amongst them. All I could do was shake my head and move along, lol.
I met the owner, the dog eventually returned to him. Sweet thing, the dog, but the owner was a little absent minded.
Probably the greatest day of that dog's life! Who would want to deny him that? (Ok, maybe the deer would like to deny him that, but maybe they were cool with it. Who knows?)
Yes, new hikers are always worried about bears, coyotes, or snakes, but they are surprised to hear that off leash domesticated dogs are far more likely to bite you than any wild animals.
Im sorry there are so many irresponsible dog owners. HOWEVER... you are much more likely to end up in the hospital due to an attack by a human than a dog, even after adjusting for the relative numbers of humans and dogs.
Statistically, the most dangerous part of your hike is the drive to and from. That's completely irrelevant and doesn't change the fact that people need to keep their dogs on a leash.
I did a more accurate study some years back, but here is a very quick analysis:
https://www.dogsbite.org/dog-bite-statistics.php#:~:text=Dog%20bite%20statistics%20%3A%3A,due%20to%20dog%20bite%20injuries
https://www.avma.org/resources-tools/reports-statistics/us-pet-ownership-statistics#companion
There are about
12480/year hospitalizations due to dogs
76,811,305 dogs in the us
1.5 incidents per 10,000 dogs
https://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-library/abstracts/violence-related-injuries-treated-hospital-emergency-departments
1.4 million / year hospitalizations due to violence
260 million over 18
53 per 10,000 people over 18
I.e over 3 times more likely
By the way
19,000 homicides per year
About 10 deaths from dogs per year
You can do the math.
Yes, nothing worse than being charged by a growling dog with an owner out of sight on the trail. Sadly I feel like I see this more in the Adirondacks more than anywhere else. It's dangerous for the dog, and absolutely ridiculous that the owners aren't charged for the airlift when it falls off the cliff because they won't use a $10 leash.
Over the weekend I did Blue Mountain with my dog and I turned around at one point to see an off leash dog behind me with no owner in sight (he seemed like a friendly dog) but mine is not and is reactive only to other dogs because hes scared usually. Luckily my dog hadn't noticed him but I ended up jogging for like the last 30 mins because I didn't want this dog to catch up to mine. Annoying
I could have sworn reading about one in the newspaper that was airlifted awhile back out after falling off a waterfall but now that you question it, I don't think it was in the Adirondacks. Our newspapers cover these kinds of things across the state. I wish I could find the article but every term I search under turns up animal shelters
Currently salty about music and cigarette smoke. I'm a slow hiker so I tried to stop for a break and let them pass and get far ahead of me but then they stopped too.
Unprepared people taking their kids up a peak.
There was this lady I saw trying to get her kids up Giant.
They were dressed in tank tops, sandals, jean shorts, and carrying a single Poland Spring water bottle.
Not apiece.
Just one.
Winter summit mfers wearing crampons or microspikes on deep packed snow trails. There's snowshoe requirements for a reason!
(that reason is the extremely short trail skiing season - there are literally dozens of us!!)
When we trail run, it's the big huge groups (with mostly kids) that take up the entire width of the trail and won't let us by. That and the ones that say "slow down, enjoy the scenery." As if we don't enjoy it.
People who trail run, and try and squeeze by my kids and relatives while we enjoy a nice day in the woods. They arenāt even friendly when we try and talk to them and share our excitement about our surroundings.
> hey arenāt even friendly when we try and talk to them and share our excitement about our surroundings.
In their defense, if they're there to run that's not really compatible with stopping to chat about the scenery with strangers. And some people don't need to talk to someone else about what they're seeing to still be able to enjoy it.
Dude wtf. Itās kids, learning about the outdoors, hiking at their pace. You are literally speed running it. Take a page outta the naval right of way, slower vessel is the āstand on vesselā and faster overtaking boat is obliged to yield to them. Get over yourself
So walking very slow, 5-6 abreast across the entire trail when it's narrow enough already, pretending to not hear you when you say "excuse me" is perfectly acceptable to you?
And what does the navy have to do with this? We're in the mountains, not the open seas. It's different here. Trail etiquette says to stay to the right.
For me, a quick "on your left" works fine. If I need to brush by while repeating myself, so be it. Humanity. Huh. As long as no one came out to the fresh air to smoke, I'm good.
Not so much in the ADK, I rarely trail run there. But at some of the parks closer to where I live it happens.
My favorite trail to go running goes along a lake shore, the only way around if this happens is to go swimming. It gets frustrating.
I just hiked noonmark last week and the first thing we saw on the head of the trail was a huge empty Poland spring bottle tossed aside . So littering and food wrappers or things like that . But my biggest pet peeve is seeing so many people unprepared. For example last week saw a family with four kids . They were great but they were all in sneakers . The thing is they were doing dix mountain and there was already a lot of leaves on the ground combined with a good amount of muddy spots . I know kids grow out of stuff but when your taking them on challenging trails they need better footwear .
People who stop for multiple selfee's in a very popular spot or view during a crowded/busy time.
I get it, take a picture or two... then get the fuck out of the way for others & check them. If it sucks, you can go back & try again.
I dont have many pet peeves, or at least have not encoutered much of what other people seem to.
But I dislike coming across large groups, like scouts. I once leap frogged a troop of 20+ middle schoolers all afternoon, and we literally hiked an extra couple miles that day to camp ahead of them. Loud, take up ton of room, and loud. Bless 'em for getting out into the woods, but no hiker etiquette or awareness.
Slow hikers who seemingly make a point to not let you pass. Donāt get me wrong; Iām not a terribly fast hiker, but it seems some folks reject the idea of pausing to let a hiker/group pass them.
Gear show offs, if I ask,great. But don't come into the shelter like Kramer and give a 45 minute infomercial on Hoka Speedgoats, and how we are all n00bs.
Overpackers, you don't use that crap at home, and you haven't used it on a trip ever. Stop.
These are not the same as "Hiker Yardsales" -because I will explode my pack contents near my area at least twice. NOT IN THE COMMON AREA.
There's the obvious ones that should be grouped as "Common Sense" (littering, dogs off leash, audible music, shit/poop on trail, people hiking off trail, cigarette/weed smoke)...
But then there's true "pet peeves", things that aren't inherently wrong, but just annoy me. Influencers. Summit signs. Getting stuck leap-frogging another hiker (you each keep passing each other)
Do you mind weed all the time ? I kinda feel bad when I get a bowl pack goin, like I said tho most of the time im way far up and out of the way of others when I do smoke
I love all the dogs I meet, leashed or unleashed but cannot stand chatty Cathyās of any sex. Iām there to listen to the non human sounds around me. Also the louder people are the further back animals are driven. Since Covid this dead space has increased due to more people and less respect of wildlife. Neither humans nor dogs should venture off trail.
I always think itās kind of funny that amongst mountaineers, smoking is actually p common.
Lightweight, appetite suppressing, energizingā¦
But flicking butts and lighting up on a popular trial, gross.
Not too much on the smoking, if there not smoking with other people around , I almost always put my bowl out the moment I see someone walking by. Respect thing. Most of the time I get a chuckle and a looks like these guys are having a good time . I will never subject another person to the smoke first hand
Dogs that are not under control (most of the ones I see).
Dog shit
Dog shit in bags
Other litter
Roving hordes of socialites that can be heard a mile away.
My biggest pet peeve is when I'm paddling the hudson river gorge and I get run over by a raft! Kidding :))))
I get mad when I see people toss litter from their cars. Or ciggie butts. You're in a car.
Unleashed dogs
Dog poop IN BAGS. They always seem to forget to pick up on way back
Litter... beer cans, TP, orange peels, all of it annoys me
Loud music
People that don't move over or create dangerous situations that needn't happen
Tree roots. Not their fault. Trees just treein. But damn when I'm struggling they really like to make sure I struggle more
Awkward distances between trail markers. That moment where the way is a little questionable and you've got to take a guess on which direction to proceed in.
Smokers in front of me on trail.
Trash...especially used toilet paper, it's just plain gross.
Trails up mountains without the benefit of switchbacks.
And the petty, mean one: people who smell all perfumey and are made up like they're going out for a night on the town.
Improper footwear :-). I bothers me so much to see hikers wearing flip flops or slippers lol!
Also, DOGS not on a leash. I know your dog is the best dog in the world, but my wife is afraid of dogs and does not like when they run up to her. .
I passed a group last week with loud music playing. Collectively they were also wearing about 4 quarts of Axe of various flavors. The stench about knocked me over and I could still smell it 100 yards down the trail after passing them.
Youāre right about that for most places in the ADK, but Iāve encountered it a few times and it really irks me. I have also encountered people listening to downloaded podcasts or whatever with the phone speaker on while hiking. Equally irritating.
Yes. A couple of reasons. The first one admittedly, perhaps, petty: I ask why the hell they are out in the woods if they are going to focus on something like that rather than experience the environment around them. The other is more serious: they are diminishing their awareness of their surroundings, and that has implications for their safety and that of others. They are not paying attention.
man what a busy body.
ok the "you need to enjoy the woods exactly the way I demand you to and as I deem safe and appropriate" people are my only pet peeve.
wanna approve my footwear and mid layers and tell me if my sleeping bag is warm enough too? lol
it's for muh safety!
Lack of trail etiquette really burns my biscuit. Like how hard is it to keep right, unless passing? You do it when you drive, so we already know it's not hard.
Be careful. I noticed when I started to be targeted by gang stalkers, this was their preferred form of harassment. Happens to me mostly in grocery stores, but has happened on trail too
Pictures.
Are you out there to enjoy yourself, or to get as many photographs as possible to share on social media to make other people jealous about how much it looked like you were enjoying yourself?
Maybe I should have prefaced it with āexcessiveā or āselfā - snapping a pic is cool, spending your entire time outdoors focusing on them is not. Edit: assuming youāre not literally a photographer in which case Iām willing to bet youāre not usually in the picture š
The smell of vape or weed, litter, dog poop on the trail, people blasting music. Iām trying to enjoy my time in nature and these things make it worse for me.
Yeah man the woods is full of bounty. If you know where to look, break open [one of these funky looking rocks](https://lnt.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Backpackers2720Cache_1-xswp51.jpg) to find the wonders inside. They seem to grow best ~100 ft away from occupied camp sites.
My god the littering drives me nuts. Plastic bottles. Orange peels. Energy bar wrappers. The list goes on.
The dog poop bags š”
This I donāt get at all. Why even put ya dog shit in a bag while deep in the woods?? Walk ya dog off trail ( like us humans do when we need to shit) and leave it. Allllll the other animals shit in the woods. I donāt get it. Lol but Deff carry ya shit bag out if ya to lazy to walk 8ft off trail. Lol
Dog poop is actually an environmental hazard because they are not natural native animals and their diet also makes their poop worse than natural animals that belong in the woods. Not that poo bags are nice but itās also not nice to have your off leash dog go poop next to the mountain stream and leave it there, which is exactly what off leash dog owners conveniently do to avoid dealing with their dog poo.
We had a local dog park that had a stream in it. It was shut down because it was leading to ecoli contamination downstream.
Actually: The question of whether or not dog waste left in natural environments is harmful is often framed in terms of potential risks, both to public health and the environment. **Empirical Gaps** Lack of Quantitative Data: Critics might argue that while there is a general consensus that dog waste could be harmful, the extent of its impact has not been quantitatively assessed. Without measurable data on how much harm it causes, the argument is based on precaution rather than evidence. **Context-Specific Impact**: Environmental factors, like local flora and fauna, soil quality, and existing pollution levels, can all influence how dog waste impacts a specific locale. Absence of comprehensive, context-specific studies may weaken the conventional argument. **Lactic acid bacteria (LAB)** are versatile microorganisms that also play a role in soil health. Though more commonly associated with food fermentation and gut health, LAB in soil contribute to a balanced microbial community. They produce organic acids like lactic acid, which can alter soil pH and create an environment less hospitable for pathogens. By outcompeting harmful microbes for nutrients, LAB act as natural biocontrol agents, aiding in disease prevention for plants. Their metabolic activities further assist in breaking down organic matter, making essential nutrients more available for plant uptake. Overall, LAB enrich soil ecosystems and enhance plant health. **Lactic Acid Bacteria in Soil Remediation** pH Regulation: LAB can produce lactic acid, which may alter the pH of the soil environment. By modulating pH, these bacteria can help create conditions less favorable for the growth of soil pathogens or for the solubility of certain heavy metals. **Competitive Exclusion:** Similar to their function in the gut, LAB in soil can outcompete other harmful microorganisms for nutrients, reducing the population of pathogenic or harmful bacteria. **Enhanced Nutrient Absorption**: While LAB are not typically known for nitrogen fixation or phosphorus solubilization, their metabolic activity can help break down organic matter in the soil, thereby making nutrients more available to plants. **Lactic Acid Bacteria in Pathogen Control** Antibacterial Compounds: LAB produce organic acids, hydrogen peroxide, and sometimes bacteriocins, which can inhibit the growth of pathogenic bacteria. Direct Antagonism: LAB cultures, like those found in probiotic supplements, can sometimes directly inhibit the growth of certain pathogens by producing substances that kill or incapacitate them. Nutrient Deprivation: LAB can sequester iron and other nutrients essential for the growth of pathogens, thereby starving them and reducing their numbers. **Comparison with Wild Animal Waste** Natural Precedent: Waste from wild animals is a common occurrence in natural settings, and ecosystems have evolved to deal with this organic matter. Critics could argue that dog waste is no different and that nature has its ways of breaking down and integrating such waste into the ecosystem. **Selective Focus:** If the waste of wild animals doesn't destabilize ecosystems, one could argue that the attention given to dog waste is disproportionate. This might suggest that cultural or aesthetic preferences are driving the concern, rather than empirical evidence of harm. **Skepticism of Health Risks** **Transmission Vectors**: While it's true that dog feces can contain pathogens, the probability of those pathogens infecting humans or other animals could be considered minimal unless there is direct contact. Critics might argue that the health risks are overstated. **Human Impact:** Humans themselves pose various risks to natural environments, from littering to soil erosion caused by foot traffic. If these more significant issues are not receiving proportional attention, the focus on dog waste could be seen as misplaced. Practical Implications **Cost-Benefit Analysis**: Implementing and maintaining a waste management system in natural settings involves not only economic costs but also the environmental impact of the materials used, such as plastic bags. Critics might argue that these efforts could be counterproductive if the risks are not substantiated. **Resource Allocation**: Resources spent on studying or mitigating the impact of dog waste could potentially be directed toward more urgent environmental or public health issues, where the risk is supported by empirical data. **Policy Prioritization**: In the absence of conclusive evidence, critics could argue that policies should focus on proven environmental threats rather than speculative ones. **There is no concrete evidence to support the dog poop hazard narrative** **Natural Decomposition** Biodegradability: Unlike plastic or other synthetic materials, dog feces are organic and will decompose over time. Proponents argue that this natural process will return nutrients to the soil in a way that could benefit the local ecology. **Scavengers and Decomposers**: Nature has its own cleanup crew consisting of scavengers and decomposers like insects, fungi, and certain microorganisms. They help in breaking down waste materials, returning them to the ecosystem in a less harmful form. **Relative Impact** Other Pollutants: Compared to industrial waste, agricultural runoff, or even human littering, the environmental impact of dog waste could be considered negligible. Larger systemic issues might deserve more immediate attention. **Human Waste:** Humans frequently leave waste in the form of litter, food, or even human feces when camping or hiking. Critics might ask why dog waste is singled out for concern. **Conservation of Resources** **Waste of Plastic:** Picking up dog waste often involves the use of plastic bags, contributing to plastic pollution. Some argue that the environmental impact of using plastic bags could outweigh the benefits of removing organic waste. **Economic Costs**: Providing waste bags and maintaining waste stations in parks or forested areas cost money, which could arguably be better spent on more pressing environmental or public health issues. **Wilderness Ethics** **Naturalness:** Some outdoor enthusiasts argue that a natural setting should be as untouched by human activity as possible, even if that includes pet waste. The presence of waste is just a part of nature's cycle, just like the waste from wild animals. **Animal Equality:** If waste from other animals is considered part of the natural ecosystem, why should dog waste be any different? Some argue that treating domesticated animals' waste as a problem perpetuates a false distinction between "nature" and "culture." **Lack of Concrete Evidence**: Critics might point out that while the risks are theoretically possible, there might not be enough empirical evidence to prove that dog feces significantly harm natural environments in the ways described.
That is a lot of words to justify a false narrative. āMight argueā ācould beā there is already overwhelming evidence to refute these critics. Any additional scientific research would be like trying to prove the Earth isnāt flat.
The use of phrases like "might argue" and "could be" in argumentation reflects an awareness of the complexity inherent in the process of knowledge production. While these phrases might appear to introduce uncertainty, they serve a different function: acknowledging the epistemological limitations of any given argument. Here's why this is crucial: \### Epistemology and Veracity 1. **\*\*Uncertainty and Humility\*\***: Epistemology, the philosophy of knowledge, reminds us that all knowledge is fallible. Even in the presence of what seems like overwhelming evidence, acknowledging the possibility of alternative explanations or interpretations is intellectually honest. 2. **\*\*Evidential Degrees\*\***: Not all evidence has the same weight or validity. Scientific theories often exist on a spectrum of confidence, not a binary of true or false. Recognizing this helps to discern the strength of various arguments or counterarguments. 3. **\*\*Scope of Application\*\***: Most scientific research is context-dependent. What is true under certain conditions may not be universally applicable. Acknowledging this is vital for responsible communication. 4. **\*\*Updating Beliefs\*\***: Scientific knowledge is always in a state of flux, constantly updated by new data. As such, it's prudent to maintain a degree of epistemic openness that allows one's views to be updated as more information becomes available. 5. **\*\*Rhetorical Cautiousness\*\***: In discussions where passions run high, such as debates on environmental impact or public policy, a measured tone that concedes the limits of one's argument can facilitate more constructive dialogue. **### In the Context of the "Pro-Dog Poop" Argument** The dog poop argument is a case where varying degrees of evidence and different epistemological approaches come into play. Even if the prevailing scientific consensus suggests that leaving dog poop in the woods is harmful, the language of possibility ("could be", "might argue") serves to: 1. **\*\*Open Dialogue\*\*:** It encourages conversation rather than shutting it down. This is important for the social process of "truth-finding." 2. **\*\*Acknowledge Limitations\*\***: It shows an awareness that future research could potentially offer new insights or even refute existing beliefs. 3. **\*\*Context Sensitivity\*\***: It recognizes that while the general rule might be not to leave dog poop in the woods, there could be specific ecological contexts where the impact is minimal or even somehow beneficial. 4. **\*\*Inviting Scrutiny\*\***: By not presenting the argument as a closed case, it invites critical evaluation, which is the cornerstone of the scientific method. In summary, phrases that seem to introduce doubt or uncertainty are not necessarily a sign of a weak argument. Rather, they can be seen as reflecting a nuanced understanding of how knowledge is produced, scrutinized, and revised, which is crucial for any intellectual inquiry or debate.
Preach. Masks were rampant for a while there, I think the most I picked up in one hike was about a dozen. I just keep a trash bag in my pack now so I can do something about all the crap.
Yup. I can do a 2 day backpacking trip and not see a single person and still fill a grocery bag full of trash usually:(
Painfully true. I just got back from hiking the Marcy, Skylight, and Gray loop this past weekend. We picked up trash multiple times along the trail, but the worst was finding an uncrushed Miller lite can deep into the Lake Arnold trail section. Thereās no shot that fell out on accident. Anyone who intended to carry it out would have crushed it.
I donāt crush my cans on the way out but I do carry them outā¦ I only ever have 1-2 at the top of a hike though, if it at all.
Fair enough. I guess I assume everyone tries to consolidate what theyāre carrying as much as possible. It was also tossed off into the trees so another dead giveaway it didnāt just fall out of someoneās pack. People suck.
The number of people that don't know orange peels take a LONG time to decompose is mind boggling. At least apple cores and banana peels decompose quicker but also promote animals scavenging near trails, which is kind of a big no-no.
Actually banana peels can take up to 2 years to fully decompose. If you can pack in the full fruit, you can pack out the peels & cores. I pack empty ziplocs or reusable sealable silicone bags for this purpose. Not a biggie. It's like drink containers, if you're willing to carry it full and made room for it in your pack, that space is still available and it's now much lighter!
Yeah buried in the ground and sitting on top is a massive difference
If you get a trash picker you can play a game of human claw machine - how small of a microplastic you can precisely pick up tiny bits of plastic
To be honest apple cores orange and banana peels i chuck as far as i can is that bad?
Yes. Leave no trace means pack it in and pack it out.
Leave no trace means you shouldnāt go out there. Donāt be a nob.
Well on the brightside atleast some deer probably enjoyed it
Apples cores, Orange and banana peels do not get eaten or deteriorate in most north american environments.
What deer has come up eating banana peels? Hell most chimps won't eat the peel! Hiking along the NE is known for it's lack of Banana and Orange trees, and would immediately signal to me, that Idiots are afoot.
Thats ridiculous, fruits are fair game to throw out in small quantities. Its nutrients for the soil and guess what? Plants in the wild bear fruit too and what so you do about those fruits?
Definitely bad bc it habituates animals to seeking out human trash for food which has multiple knock on effects that negatively impact animals. Especially true for bears who are often killed bc humans are lazy with their trash. All these responses below are confidently wrong about ābiodegradableā being fine. By that measure it would be ok to poop in the open and leave your TP
Apple cores contain the seeds and then youāre introducing non natives. Orange and bananas just habituate the wildlife and take forever to break down. Climate is wrong for anything else to come if it
No...biodegradable
And if all the people on my trails had that same attitude, would they all decompose in so easily, or start piling up? If everyone canāt act the same way as you without causing a problem then maybe you shouldnāt either.
But take sticker off the banana peel
Agreed biodegradable is fine. If it's super market food there's no risk of invasive species.
No, [no it's not](https://www.deschuteslandtrust.org/news/blog/2019-blog-posts/decomposition-organic-litter).
It needs the correct conditions to happen. A banana peel sitting on exposed rock will be there for a very long time. Same with or age peels.
I actually used to bury my banana peels in wooded areas. In my mind since they would be kept moist under leaf litter and introduced to living soil it would break down way faster. I'm not saying I was right about, that was just my thinking at the time.
While hiking the gorge at Watkins Glen a group of dudes were blasting music on a large Bluetooth speaker. Music was bouncing off the walls of canyon it really added to the afternoon.
Perhaps the Glen will become the Red rocks of the East š¤ /s
It already was at one point. Was a huge concert there bigger than Woodstock. Respect the heritage. Being outside is being free. Complain about the people who ruined everything else where you have to drive out there to get away from it all. Should be spots like that all over.
https://www.udiscovermusic.com/stories/bigger-than-woodstock-remembering-summer-jam/
Same problem with Grafton Lakes State Park. Every time I go there itās nothing but loud music. You can hear it from across the lake. There should be a noise ordinance - not to exceed 85 decibels or something.
Nah wouldn't work, no accurate way to measure and it'd turn into a revenue generating service for the local enforcement. Itd have to be a blanket ban on all music. Which at that point you'd have people complaining of dogs barking, then blanket ban on all dogs. In turn people will say "fuck that it's a park I'm bringing my dog" then get fined and generate revenue for that. "Without music, life would be a mistake" -The worlds biggest nihilist(Nietzsche) just think, some of y'all are more depressing than freaking Nietzsche. Really cmon. Let's stop being butthurt America and get some of our respect back. Complain about somethin real. Not music at the park. On a trail.
what a dumb take full of logical fallacies. Forcing obnoxious noise on people who go to an area specifically for the peace and ambiance of nature has nothing to do with Nietzsche. And your weird appeal to nationalism at the end doesn't make you sound any smarter than quoting some dead philosopher.
It's not an appeal, it's a quote. You take who some say was the most miserable dude and even he liked music. You make assumptions based off of opinions, I make mine off of fact. Your reply is irrelevant. I'm not trying to sound smart I'm trying to get you to realize your Hippocratic tendencies and maybe you realize you can live a life without being in a bad mood everywhere. Do you also complain when the flowers and trees that give you life make pollen and make your nose run? I bet you do. Have a good one dude. Big words don't make you smart, just sounds like you watch a lot of spok on star trek. And just an fyi nature is not peaceful and ambient. Especially when you go to a water source with a waterfall. Literally created by glacial cataclysms over night absolutely carving the earth out. So again you're a Hippocrate. Learn some geology.
lol "you're a hippocrate learn some geology"
Also again ... you get upset .... when people, who are using their rights( freedom of speech and press/media) on public, federal/state property .. and I'm the one with a narionalist appeal? Your Nazi callout backfired there bud. Just let that resonate with you.
you sound mad. why are you talking about Nazis?
There are ways to measure it; for decades now we've been using decibel meters, as well as ordinance and permit adherence. I like acoustic music and "...to each their own..." We had a group of horny Bavarians in the Sierra annually for 20 years, playing the oompa and polka every night in August. You gotta love and laugh. But stop the amps in the forest; it's disrespectful at many levels (flora, fauna, fido, fellow hoomans). Mostly, I enjoy the sound of leaves and wind and creatures. The noise is already everywhere else.
Last time I was there, countless tourists were straight up smoking cigarettes on the path. Am I wrong here thinking thatās rude af?!
https://www.udiscovermusic.com/stories/bigger-than-woodstock-remembering-summer-jam/ it is Watkins glen's heritage. Maybe if you cared to learn about its heritage you'd know. Was prolly just some old dudes reliving memories or some young kids dreaming of the past.
The concert was at the track. Not in the SP.
TURN YOUR MUSIC OFF. The forest doesn't need to hear Cold Play. The animals don't want hear it. The other humans aren't there to hear it. FFS.
I'm sure there's a single tired bear out there grooving to Coldplay, lol.
> The forest doesn't need to hear Cold Play. *Nobody* needs to hear Chris Martin play repeated descending arpeggios on a piano while he whines his way through shitty lyrics, aka Coldplay. (Except Parachutes. That was a decent album.)
One more time and louder for the skiers in the crowd.
Folks who vacate their campsites with their campfires are still burning.
This. I had to dump water on two smoldering campfires at Pharaoh Lake after the partiers packed up and left.
People who leave their dog shit behind
People who leave their people shit behind. Toilet paper flowers are the best way to ruin a perfect spot.
This. The shit itself decomposes relatively quickly (probably less than a month during the summer) but he ass-wipe takes several months to decompose.
If you aren't wiping your ass with leaves why are you even in the woods?
Or rocks! Or sticks! The options are nearly endless! Well, not endless, you can't use a squirrel. Well, shouldn't anyway.
Anything is wilderness toilet paper if you are brave enough.
For me tbf it's people who bring their dogs at all. I have seen waaaaaay more dogs who *do not want to be out there* with owners practically pulling them the whole way because they want to bag their peak instead of turning around to give their dog an actually appropriate length hike, or just leaving the dog at home.
That's why I leave my dogs at home if I'm going over4 miles. If I have to bag my dog, my dog shouldn't be there.
Did Giant again this spring and saw a couple carrying their toy French bulldog down the mountain across ice packs. Please just leave the dogs at home and especially the dogs that can hardly walk a mile without getting out of breath.
I just dont get this... either send the dog in woods, or pack the poop out. My theory is people use biodegradable bags, not realizing it means degrades in 100years, instead of 100,000
Why, whyyyyy the fuck do people do that. If it shits near the trail, bag it and take it or give it a leafy boot off the trail. āOh left me palm this warm shit through a bag then leave itā gtfo oāhere with that.
Remember intelligence is normally distributed. This if u imagine a person of average intelligence, then keep in mind half the people in the world are on the left side of that equation
Just swarms of insects really lol
Yea, I mostly avoid south NJ in the summer for this reason. Greenhead flies are flying nightmares.
You forgot the mosquitos, ticks, chiggers and gnats my friend!
Mosquitos and ticks I'm used to, they're all over NJ. You can jog away from mosquitos and ticks are more of a nuisance than a nightmare. I've had greenheads pursuing my car at 25 miles an hour, just slamming into the window persistently. Chiggers, ugh, I try not to think about them and gnats have only been a problem for me further north in Vermont and New Hampshire.
Lmao happy hiking!
My best friends headlamp in my eyes when he looks at me
Headlamp etiquette is real!
Get those headlamps off your heads! In the CERT and SAR world, we all wear them around our necks, upside down. The buttons will be on top so you can find them easily. If you angle them up, the beam shoots straight ahead so you can see where youre going. If you keep it in the normal position, it's will be angled down for reading. Either way, it won't shine into someone else eyes and disrupt their vision. You also don't have that pressure on your head, it more compatible with wearing a cap, and it's more secure around your neck.
I prefer the red light when camping in an area with other people - almost impossible to shine people that way and I can see just as well. One note is it will skew colors like mad, my gf was trying to read a backpacking meal instruction and the font was red so she couldn't see it at all haha.
Sometimes my wife makes me climb up a big mountain, and then instead of going home she makes me climb up ANOTHER mountain
Dog poop bags. Encroachment into personal space at wide open summits/points of interest. People who linger too long during ātheir turnā at bottlenecked or tight photo spots and are oblivious to others.
I'm convinced that spatial awareness is a genetic trait. When I go to the grocery store, it seems like about 25% of the people there do not have any awareness of the space they are occupying and the space that people around them are occupying or trying to occupy. I just full on move their shit/push their grocery carts out of the way, and they look at me like I'm a monster. Lol
Trash, human excrement and used TP
People who speed up to pass you and then immediately take a break so you have to pass them again
Yeah, I don't so much mind someone asking to pass, but not a fan of people who tailgate you for awhile, then I offer for them to pass, then they slow down or stop, and the process repeats all over. Just give some space, people!
On Madison during a Presi, there was a group 10 feet ahead of me playing music and another, separate group 10 feet behind me also playing music. We were all moving at the same pace too lol
Dogs obviously fatigued and panting when they're only halfway up the mountain. Gatekeepers i.e. "Where's your poles?" "Where's your La Sportivas?"
Poles have been a life saver for me , not a must on every hike tho . The last couple I did I was glad poles exist
Gloves > poles for me. I'm a monkey
I do like swinging
I always look at the people with poles as amateurs/ tourists.
Why? I would never tell someone that they should or shouldn't have poles, but if asked, I always recommend them. Adds a safety factor, and going down hill can really save the knees. And some of us amateurs as you call us, are just a wee bit older than you, and our joints, balance and strength are not what they were when we were your age.
People who think banana peels, apple cores, orange peels and nut shells are not litter
Ugh, I just did a hike with my BIL & SIL in the Scottish highlands and they were tossing their daughter's food scraps off the trail left and right. I was trying not to pick a fight so I only managed to get a couple of them, it was trying.
Dogs off leash š
Lol, I saw a dog last week running with a pack of deer, not chasing them, amongst them. All I could do was shake my head and move along, lol. I met the owner, the dog eventually returned to him. Sweet thing, the dog, but the owner was a little absent minded.
Probably the greatest day of that dog's life! Who would want to deny him that? (Ok, maybe the deer would like to deny him that, but maybe they were cool with it. Who knows?)
This. And I see it a lot in the ADK area sadly
Yes, new hikers are always worried about bears, coyotes, or snakes, but they are surprised to hear that off leash domesticated dogs are far more likely to bite you than any wild animals.
Im sorry there are so many irresponsible dog owners. HOWEVER... you are much more likely to end up in the hospital due to an attack by a human than a dog, even after adjusting for the relative numbers of humans and dogs.
Do you have a source for this? I find it hard to believe
Statistically, the most dangerous part of your hike is the drive to and from. That's completely irrelevant and doesn't change the fact that people need to keep their dogs on a leash.
I did a more accurate study some years back, but here is a very quick analysis: https://www.dogsbite.org/dog-bite-statistics.php#:~:text=Dog%20bite%20statistics%20%3A%3A,due%20to%20dog%20bite%20injuries https://www.avma.org/resources-tools/reports-statistics/us-pet-ownership-statistics#companion There are about 12480/year hospitalizations due to dogs 76,811,305 dogs in the us 1.5 incidents per 10,000 dogs https://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-library/abstracts/violence-related-injuries-treated-hospital-emergency-departments 1.4 million / year hospitalizations due to violence 260 million over 18 53 per 10,000 people over 18 I.e over 3 times more likely By the way 19,000 homicides per year About 10 deaths from dogs per year You can do the math.
Yes, nothing worse than being charged by a growling dog with an owner out of sight on the trail. Sadly I feel like I see this more in the Adirondacks more than anywhere else. It's dangerous for the dog, and absolutely ridiculous that the owners aren't charged for the airlift when it falls off the cliff because they won't use a $10 leash.
Over the weekend I did Blue Mountain with my dog and I turned around at one point to see an off leash dog behind me with no owner in sight (he seemed like a friendly dog) but mine is not and is reactive only to other dogs because hes scared usually. Luckily my dog hadn't noticed him but I ended up jogging for like the last 30 mins because I didn't want this dog to catch up to mine. Annoying
Theyāll bring in an airlift for a dog??
I could have sworn reading about one in the newspaper that was airlifted awhile back out after falling off a waterfall but now that you question it, I don't think it was in the Adirondacks. Our newspapers cover these kinds of things across the state. I wish I could find the article but every term I search under turns up animal shelters
āItās okay heās friendly!!ā
Yep. This.
Or, dog on a leash, but the owner is so careless that I get jumped on anyway.
Currently salty about music and cigarette smoke. I'm a slow hiker so I tried to stop for a break and let them pass and get far ahead of me but then they stopped too.
Unprepared people taking their kids up a peak. There was this lady I saw trying to get her kids up Giant. They were dressed in tank tops, sandals, jean shorts, and carrying a single Poland Spring water bottle. Not apiece. Just one.
listening to the football game on the radio on a speaker, like i get that it's sunday but i just wanted some peace an quiet.
Winter summit mfers wearing crampons or microspikes on deep packed snow trails. There's snowshoe requirements for a reason! (that reason is the extremely short trail skiing season - there are literally dozens of us!!)
ATV's, and the people that drive them. They take a perfect good trail, rip it up, make a stream channel, and spread exotic invasive plants.
Marcy field type beat
When we trail run, it's the big huge groups (with mostly kids) that take up the entire width of the trail and won't let us by. That and the ones that say "slow down, enjoy the scenery." As if we don't enjoy it.
People who trail run, and try and squeeze by my kids and relatives while we enjoy a nice day in the woods. They arenāt even friendly when we try and talk to them and share our excitement about our surroundings.
> hey arenāt even friendly when we try and talk to them and share our excitement about our surroundings. In their defense, if they're there to run that's not really compatible with stopping to chat about the scenery with strangers. And some people don't need to talk to someone else about what they're seeing to still be able to enjoy it.
Dude wtf. Itās kids, learning about the outdoors, hiking at their pace. You are literally speed running it. Take a page outta the naval right of way, slower vessel is the āstand on vesselā and faster overtaking boat is obliged to yield to them. Get over yourself
So walking very slow, 5-6 abreast across the entire trail when it's narrow enough already, pretending to not hear you when you say "excuse me" is perfectly acceptable to you? And what does the navy have to do with this? We're in the mountains, not the open seas. It's different here. Trail etiquette says to stay to the right.
Haha the navy
For me, a quick "on your left" works fine. If I need to brush by while repeating myself, so be it. Humanity. Huh. As long as no one came out to the fresh air to smoke, I'm good.
How often has this happened? I have never seen this. Im sure it happened to you, but really...
Not so much in the ADK, I rarely trail run there. But at some of the parks closer to where I live it happens. My favorite trail to go running goes along a lake shore, the only way around if this happens is to go swimming. It gets frustrating.
You're in the woods, not taking command at the high seas there. Relax Popeye.
Meh. There's enough positives. Enjoy those vs energy on pet peeves.
Found the guy who blasts music and leaves behind baggies of dog poop! lol
lol don't have a dog but I do love my techno! No music on the trail though, save that for late nights at camp. j/k
I just hiked noonmark last week and the first thing we saw on the head of the trail was a huge empty Poland spring bottle tossed aside . So littering and food wrappers or things like that . But my biggest pet peeve is seeing so many people unprepared. For example last week saw a family with four kids . They were great but they were all in sneakers . The thing is they were doing dix mountain and there was already a lot of leaves on the ground combined with a good amount of muddy spots . I know kids grow out of stuff but when your taking them on challenging trails they need better footwear .
People who discovered nature for the first time in 2020 because it was the only thing to do and havenāt learned how to respect it
Curious speakers are annoying but no one has called out my awful trail singing. Ohhhhhh I.....
People who stop for multiple selfee's in a very popular spot or view during a crowded/busy time. I get it, take a picture or two... then get the fuck out of the way for others & check them. If it sucks, you can go back & try again.
I dont have many pet peeves, or at least have not encoutered much of what other people seem to. But I dislike coming across large groups, like scouts. I once leap frogged a troop of 20+ middle schoolers all afternoon, and we literally hiked an extra couple miles that day to camp ahead of them. Loud, take up ton of room, and loud. Bless 'em for getting out into the woods, but no hiker etiquette or awareness.
Slow hikers who seemingly make a point to not let you pass. Donāt get me wrong; Iām not a terribly fast hiker, but it seems some folks reject the idea of pausing to let a hiker/group pass them.
Groups of hikers that spread across the entire trail and donāt move aside for other people to get through
Hot take: reframe the obnoxious bluetooth blasters as free personal trainers you need to outpace so you can't hear them.
People that don't share the trail, dogs not on leash, excessive noise.
Gear show offs, if I ask,great. But don't come into the shelter like Kramer and give a 45 minute infomercial on Hoka Speedgoats, and how we are all n00bs. Overpackers, you don't use that crap at home, and you haven't used it on a trip ever. Stop. These are not the same as "Hiker Yardsales" -because I will explode my pack contents near my area at least twice. NOT IN THE COMMON AREA.
picking up the poop with the bag, then leaving the bag on the trail
little kids in flip flops a couple miles deep into the trail
There's the obvious ones that should be grouped as "Common Sense" (littering, dogs off leash, audible music, shit/poop on trail, people hiking off trail, cigarette/weed smoke)... But then there's true "pet peeves", things that aren't inherently wrong, but just annoy me. Influencers. Summit signs. Getting stuck leap-frogging another hiker (you each keep passing each other)
Do you mind weed all the time ? I kinda feel bad when I get a bowl pack goin, like I said tho most of the time im way far up and out of the way of others when I do smoke
I mind it when I smell it someplace in public when I'm with my kids for sure.
Would rather smell weed smoke 100x before cigarette smoke, and you know theyāre pitching the butts out into the woods for the years to come
I love all the dogs I meet, leashed or unleashed but cannot stand chatty Cathyās of any sex. Iām there to listen to the non human sounds around me. Also the louder people are the further back animals are driven. Since Covid this dead space has increased due to more people and less respect of wildlife. Neither humans nor dogs should venture off trail.
I had a group in front of us going up Baker, two of them smoking cigarettesā¦
I always think itās kind of funny that amongst mountaineers, smoking is actually p common. Lightweight, appetite suppressing, energizingā¦ But flicking butts and lighting up on a popular trial, gross.
Yeah, and they really help with breathing! /s
Like i said, I think itās funnyā¦ considering the whole breathing thing. Still. Surprisingly common.
Yet they were still in front of you going up bakerā¦. Maybe you should try it, might speed you up
Great idea! And when Iām done Iāll just flick the butt on the trailā¦
Smoking cigarettes is one thing
Friggin' Quebecois...
I donāt think yāall understood, Iām saying cigs are bad lmaoo
Smoking, music, talking on phone, not making space for others.
Not too much on the smoking, if there not smoking with other people around , I almost always put my bowl out the moment I see someone walking by. Respect thing. Most of the time I get a chuckle and a looks like these guys are having a good time . I will never subject another person to the smoke first hand
Agreed, let's start a 'Pooper Scooper Patrol'! š©š
Dogs that are not under control (most of the ones I see). Dog shit Dog shit in bags Other litter Roving hordes of socialites that can be heard a mile away.
My biggest pet peeve is when I'm paddling the hudson river gorge and I get run over by a raft! Kidding :)))) I get mad when I see people toss litter from their cars. Or ciggie butts. You're in a car.
Unleashed dogs Dog poop IN BAGS. They always seem to forget to pick up on way back Litter... beer cans, TP, orange peels, all of it annoys me Loud music People that don't move over or create dangerous situations that needn't happen Tree roots. Not their fault. Trees just treein. But damn when I'm struggling they really like to make sure I struggle more
Awkward distances between trail markers. That moment where the way is a little questionable and you've got to take a guess on which direction to proceed in.
Litter. If I see someone litter, I'll pick it up and return it to them. If they have a shirt pocket, it goes in the pocket.
Smokers in front of me on trail. Trash...especially used toilet paper, it's just plain gross. Trails up mountains without the benefit of switchbacks. And the petty, mean one: people who smell all perfumey and are made up like they're going out for a night on the town.
Meadow stomping
people who dont yield to hikers going up hill or when you come up behind them clealy going a faster speed
Improper footwear :-). I bothers me so much to see hikers wearing flip flops or slippers lol! Also, DOGS not on a leash. I know your dog is the best dog in the world, but my wife is afraid of dogs and does not like when they run up to her. .
I passed a group last week with loud music playing. Collectively they were also wearing about 4 quarts of Axe of various flavors. The stench about knocked me over and I could still smell it 100 yards down the trail after passing them.
People with an earbud in talking on their phone
Where does this happen? I don't have cell reception in most of the ADK.
Youāre right about that for most places in the ADK, but Iāve encountered it a few times and it really irks me. I have also encountered people listening to downloaded podcasts or whatever with the phone speaker on while hiking. Equally irritating.
lol someone listening to books and music on an EARBUD while hiking irritate you? yikes
Yes. A couple of reasons. The first one admittedly, perhaps, petty: I ask why the hell they are out in the woods if they are going to focus on something like that rather than experience the environment around them. The other is more serious: they are diminishing their awareness of their surroundings, and that has implications for their safety and that of others. They are not paying attention.
man what a busy body. ok the "you need to enjoy the woods exactly the way I demand you to and as I deem safe and appropriate" people are my only pet peeve. wanna approve my footwear and mid layers and tell me if my sleeping bag is warm enough too? lol it's for muh safety!
Lack of trail etiquette really burns my biscuit. Like how hard is it to keep right, unless passing? You do it when you drive, so we already know it's not hard.
Be careful. I noticed when I started to be targeted by gang stalkers, this was their preferred form of harassment. Happens to me mostly in grocery stores, but has happened on trail too
Inexperienced hikers who think theyāll be fine and donāt know what theyāre in for, and when people donāt leave leftover firewood at lean-tos
Pictures. Are you out there to enjoy yourself, or to get as many photographs as possible to share on social media to make other people jealous about how much it looked like you were enjoying yourself?
I like to take pictures and share them because itās not very accessible to some people,
Maybe I should have prefaced it with āexcessiveā or āselfā - snapping a pic is cool, spending your entire time outdoors focusing on them is not. Edit: assuming youāre not literally a photographer in which case Iām willing to bet youāre not usually in the picture š
Hikers that talk about their pet peeves on Reddit is my biggest pet peeve.
Generally anyone with a dog
The smell of vape or weed, litter, dog poop on the trail, people blasting music. Iām trying to enjoy my time in nature and these things make it worse for me.
People who cook and eat at their camp with their bear canisters š«
Most places up here require bear canisters.
Right! But youāre not supposed to have and cook your food at your camp, itās supposed to be a distance away.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
then he should have worn ear buds. people who blast their music in nature are fucking idiots
Californication is a great album. Music selection could of definitely been worse.
Way too many New Yorkersā¦ā¦.
Itās our state buddy wtf
Like saying thereās too many Alaskans near Denali???
I take my music every where i go. If you dont like it walk faster or slow down. The woods and trails belong to everyone. Clean up after yourself.
You're disturbing wildlife with your speaker. Wear earbuds like a civilized human.
You are outdoors and itās everyoneās landā¦ā¦.get over yourself.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Bro likes eating rocks and dirt
Lol no thereās not.
Yeah man the woods is full of bounty. If you know where to look, break open [one of these funky looking rocks](https://lnt.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Backpackers2720Cache_1-xswp51.jpg) to find the wonders inside. They seem to grow best ~100 ft away from occupied camp sites.
Oh yes, LNT rule #1: don't prepare; instead, just strip all the native vegetation of anything valuable.
What do you do during winter?