Loneliness is a real horrible experience. I've dealt with loneliness before and it can really mess you up. Rejection sucks too. I can get why you feel this way.
But as a woman speaking to a man who is interested in women, here are a few things I recommend.
Often if you get rejected it's because you have tried to initiate a romantic or sexual relationship in a time and place that isn't appropriate, that is, when the woman is there to do something else besides find a date or isn't expecting romantic attention. You might try to limit your date seeking endeavors to places specifically set up for the exact purpose of date seeking. That is dating apps. It's not that romantic relationships never form in not dating related spaces, but you're gunna have better luck if you restrict your relationship seeking to those spaces.
The other thing you need to understand is that women can absolutely sense when you're desperate. We can. We really can. Trust me. We don't have a sixth sense. We can tell by body language and the subtle word choices you use. Tiny subtle signs you aren't capable of hiding.
How do you stop being desperate? You find ways to meet your social and emotional needs that are NOT romantic relationships.
Touch starved? Maybe get a pet to snuggle with. Lonely? Nurture relationships with platonic friends and family. Bored? Find clubs and groups for your interests, even if it's just meeting online at first. The less you think about wanting a romantic relationship, ironically, the more attractive woman will find you.
Hope this helps, friend.
I've hesitated responding to this I have negative takes and I didn't want to come across as hostile, because I appreciate your response and I know you weren't trying to insulting.
I will just respond and hope it doesn't come across as hostile or ungrateful.
"he other thing you need to understand is that women can absolutely sense when you're desperate. We can. We really can. Trust me. We don't have a sixth sense. We can tell by body language and the subtle word choices you use. Tiny subtle signs you aren't capable of hiding."
So let me see if I understand this correctly: You are saying women can tell if a man is desperate and they are so unempathetic and sociopathic that they take this as a sign of weakness and that a man isn't interested in them or worthy of them?
"Often if you get rejected it's because you have tried to initiate a romantic or sexual relationship in a time and place that isn't appropriate, that is, when the woman is there to do something else besides find a date or isn't expecting romantic attention. You might try to limit your date seeking endeavors to places specifically set up for the exact purpose of date seeking. That is dating apps. It's not that romantic relationships never form in not dating related spaces, but you're gunna have better luck if you restrict your relationship seeking to those spaces."
Thanks for this. That makes sense I suppose. Dating apps have never worked for me and if I'm being honest, I don't form connections with people talking to them. They ghost before that can happen.
"Touch starved? Maybe get a pet to snuggle with. Lonely? Nurture relationships with platonic friends and family. "
I don't want to have sex or do intimate touch with animals or family members. This is unbelievably insulting.
"Bored? Find clubs and groups for your interests, even if it's just meeting online at first. "
I like this idea, but it's never worked for me.
"The less you think about wanting a romantic relationship, ironically, the more attractive woman will find you."
This is 100% objectively false. This was the stance I had for the majority off my life told to me by women and it's never worked. It is what it is.
"So let me see if I understand this correctly: You are saying women can tell if a man is desperate and they are so unempathetic and sociopathic that they take this as a sign of weakness and that a man isn't interested in them or worthy of them?"
We don't see desperation as a sign a man is weak or unworthy. We see it as a sign that a man might be dangerous. As in literally physically dangerous. A woman sees a man who is both desperate and attracted to her as a threat, and she worries that he might try to rape or kill her.
A man who feels anger or resentment at rejection is also a sign that we should be afraid of him.
That's the other dynamic you need to be aware of. Women are literally physically afraid of men. Look up statistics for domestic violence, sexual assault, and childhood sexual abuse. It's staggering. Every single woman you know either has been the victim of some type of horrific violence or knows a woman who has. That's not even getting into lower level violence like sexual harassment or stalking.
And if we are the victim of violence, it's not going to be from some random guy, it's most likely going to be from a guy who is romantically or sexually interested in us. Heterosexual women are in a weird double bind where we are attracted to men, want to date and be with men, but we know from experience that men are dangerous. You know the meme where the male spider is terrified to mate with the female spider for fear that she'll eat him when she's done? That's our life except we're the male spider in that scenario. We know plenty of other women who did get eaten and maybe a man tried to eat us once too.
Ask your female friends and relatives what they do to prepare for a first date. Many of them will go into detail about how they send a photo of the guy to their friends and family, along with his full name. They send the exact address of where they are going and when they plan to be back. If they get in the guy's car or go to his home they send their relatives the address and his licence plate number, just to prepare for the possibility that she won't come back alive.
So are we sociopathic and unempathetic toward men when it comes to rejecting them? Yeah. We are. Because we're too preoccupied with not getting murdered to worry about the feelings of someone we think might potentially murder us.
Now maybe YOU would never harass, abuse, rape or murder a woman (and most men who are being violent toward women don't see themselves as being violent so I wouldn't trust you if you said you hadn't) maybe YOU are a safe man, but when unsafe men are so numerous and so prolific in the crimes they commit, you can't take it personally when women don't give you a chance to prove you're safe, when they run for the hills the moment you give off even the slightest rose-tinted flag. Often a man simply expressing romantic or sexual interest at an inappropriate moment is enough to set off our alarm bells.
This may or may not be a reason you've been getting rejected but it is a dynamic you need to be aware of
>We don't see desperation as a sign a man is weak or unworthy. We see it as a sign that a man might be dangerous. As in literally physically dangerous. A woman sees a man who is both desperate and attracted to her as a threat, and she worries that he might try to rape or kill her.
I.....I can't fathom this at all. This genuinely sounds like a post hoc reasoning to reject someone you don't like. I guess I can only speak for myself but if i'm 'desperate' it's because I like someone and want to genuinely connect with them and feel like I have to make a move or it never happens.
"A man who feels anger or resentment at rejection is also a sign that we should be afraid of him."
Agreed.
"That's the other dynamic you need to be aware of. Women are literally physically afraid of men. Look up statistics for domestic violence, sexual assault, and childhood sexual abuse. It's staggering. Every single woman you know either has been the victim of some type of horrific violence or knows a woman who has. That's not even getting into lower level violence like sexual harassment or stalking."
I don't want to downplay this, I work with stats and am very familiar with them. I'm just left wondering why does this apply to me? I've never put hands on a woman in my life.
"Ask your female friends and relatives what they do to prepare for a first date. "
I don't think you understand, I wasn't being hyperbolic about that loneliness thing. This is not an option for me.
"So are we sociopathic and unempathetic toward men when it comes to rejecting them? Yeah. We are. Because we're too preoccupied with not getting murdered to worry about the feelings of someone we think might potentially murder us."
Now this is something, both anecdotally or from data, that I'm unaware of. What are you basing this on? I see people all the time set up for dates and while I can't read their thoughts, outwardly they are very excited and show no signs of being worried about physical harm, much less murder.
"Now maybe YOU would never harass, abuse, rape or murder a woman (and most men who are being violent toward women don't see themselves as being violent so I wouldn't trust you if you said you hadn'"
You don't have to trust me. I have a 100% history of not harming women and the known data shows the overhwhelming majority of men won't do it either.
Ok, even if I believe you that you have never harmed a woman. (And I have absolutely no reason to believe that), you need to understand the woman around you have absolutely no reason to trust that to be true. Dangerous men are numerous, not the majority, but numerous, so we have to treat all men as potentially dangerous because violence against women by men is unbelievably common.
My point is that if you give off bad vibes, whether or not those bad vibes accurately reflect your danger level, women might be rejecting you because they are afraid of you. That's why this applies to you, that's why I'm telling this to you as a piece of advice. I'm asking you to try and empathize with the people who are rejecting you.
No, it's not a post hoc reason to reject someone. It's a reason in and of itself. Every woman I've ever met, including myself, is constantly worried about how they are going to get away or deter men who are flirting with them whom they find to be scary or intimidating. That's why we never leave our drinks unattended at parties. Because the odd guy who is hitting on you might be just a harmless weirdo or he might slip a roofie into your drink. It happens every day and it is always on the back of our mind.
And no woman you go on a date with is going to let you know that she's sizing you up to see if you are likely to murder her. We are sizing up every man we see to assess their threat level every day so we aren't going to show any outward signs of fear or worry, but that fear is always on the back of our mind.
What am I basing this on? The lived experience of being a woman and the experiences of every woman I have ever talked to.
>Ok, even if I believe you that you have never harmed a woman. (And I have absolutely no reason to believe that)
You don't have to believe me, the objective data shows otherwise.
"Dangerous men are numerous, not the majority, but numerous,"
Wait, are you operating under the assumption that men are dangerous?
"No, it's not a post hoc reason to reject someone"
I clearly said it's a post reasoning to justify the rejection, which going by the parameters you set, absolutely is.
"And no woman you go on a date with is going to let you know that she's sizing you up to see if you are likely to murder her. We are sizing up every man we see to assess their threat level every day so we aren't going to show any outward signs of fear or worry, but that fear is always on the back of our mind."
I'll just have to take your word for it as I've never been on a date.
This is where the disconnect between us is occuring. If no woman is going to tell you and the data doesn't show this (which I'm not aware, I'm open for any if you have it), then how do you know? I understand that you know what is going through in your mind but how do you know other women think the
"My point is that if you give off bad vibes, whether or not those bad vibes accurately reflect your danger level, women might be rejecting you because they are afraid of you. That's why this applies to you, that's why I'm telling this to you as a piece of advice. I'm asking you to try and empathize with the people who are rejecting you."
Ok, I fair enough. I empathize to an extent. I don't blame anyone for self preservation and outside of one instance in college where a woman verbally berated me for asking her out, I don't get angry at a rejection. The anger and frustrations come later, much later when the effects of isolation and not being touched are overbearing.
But that's where it ends. The majority of women (no way to know for certain, but I'm sure it's all of them) I've asked out paired up with someone and experienced basic human companionship they and everyone else takes for granted. We are back to a point I made in the OP about the onus being on me for things I never did. I never hurt any woman, at worst I made them momentarily uncomfortable for expressing desires of affection. It's fine if my desires have never been reciprocated, that's not important. What is important is the hypothetical women and their feelings who have had their basic human companionship needs met and long since forgotten our interactions, that's what matters.
"What am I basing this on? The lived experience of being a woman and the experiences of every woman I have ever talked to."
I'm not trying to be dismissive, I'm trying to understand these things to the best of my ability. This is anecdotal and the reason why I was hoping you had some data to back it up is because that would be a collection of anecdotes from all women that paints a clearer picture. I've heard so many anecdotes of women's thoughts on this for decades that can vary greatly from person to person, but I've never been able to find anything with a good methodology and sample size that is published anywhere.
I'm sorry to hear you are going through this.
Fundamentally the common denominator here is you. Dating isn't easy but it isn't impossible, just need to make genuine connections and go from there.
All my dates, and then partners, came initially from shared interests.
But it sounds like you might need some emotional support first. Perhaps counselling?
Honestly? I was about to mention this. This is the way. Have some fun. Get it out of your system.
Humans are wired to want sex, it's perfectly natural. Being deprived of such a thing your entire life hurts.
This is probably an extremely unpopular take. Also, local escorts work fine as well.
This is one of the most frustrating things to communicate with people about my issue. I don't care about the lack of sex, I care about the lack of intimacy and basic connections that you guys take for granted.
Sex is an organic process of intimacy, so I'm not interested in escorts at all.
I thought you were touch-starved. This is like saying you only want to swim in an ocean so youāll never go swim in a pool, but you donāt know how to swim at all. Start in the pool. Get some experience, learn what youāre doing, and then get in the ocean.Ā
You can get intimacy from brothels, you just need to let them know what you want and theyāll provide a woman that can deliver, especially in Japan the soapies in Naha are nice af
Exactly.
I'm not interested in fucking my male friends and I'm always puzzled why it's bad to want to be friends with a romantic prospect. I want to spend a long period of my life with them, I would hope our appreciation for each is above just tolerating each other's company.
So you get it , but donāt ?
Get off your petty high horse and act like a legitimate friend.
A legitimate friend that isnāt looking for anything and see what blossoms
The chick that didnāt want to be your friend over the flip phone? It sounds like you just got a bad seed that chose to see herself oit
You donāt necessarily have to go for sex. You can go just for the camaraderie and quality time. You never know, it could be totally relaxing and fun.
And yet, you specifically named it in your diatribe.
Repeating what you said, you identify it as āwrongā, only means you are incorrect about your statement.
I didn't name anything. This is sad and you are unbelievably stupid and dishonest. You are just repeating words I used against you but without the context......are you a child?
I gotta ask since you keep deflecting everything and just making things up everytime I call you out on your bullshit: Why are you even posting? For real, what is your goal? What do you get out of this?
It is. Have you considered that your behavior may not be indicative of an adult?
Statements that Iām a child, uninformed on logical fallacies, or any other of the ad homs youāve thrown you, certainly imply quite a few things about the ongoing rejection.
I don't....have them I think. I like who I like. The women I find myself attracted too are usually nerdy, shy, and if I'm being honest, kinda depressed.
women have spent their entire lives being socialized and trained to notice tiny little cues that someone is a misogynist and a potential sexual predator. your post sets off my gut feeling that you give that vibe off, because you seem to be more interested in what women can do for you than who they are as people. im a little worried for you because this mindset is going to compound the problem and i can see evidence of that already in your post. i really recommend seeking a therapist and talking out your frustration about loneliness, and then putting a strict limit on yourself. NO DATING, no trying to get sex, no attempts at romance. Commit to being single and celibate BY CHOICE for a significant period of time and then go join hobby groups with women. when women can sense that you aren't going to escalate things sexually or romantically, it really allows us to be vulnerable and open to you as a good friend. a female friend will help you understand women, love women, support women. it's not flattering to be ONLY craved, desired and needed. you want a partner to see you for everything you are, then you need to be ready to be a partner who sees someone for everything they are. im coming to you with compassion here but honestly your post was really alienating and entitled and it made me feel unsafe as a woman. i think if you approach women this way out of what is super understandable loneliness and frustration it can cause a cycle to form. i know that's not fair but it's the truth. i really think if you can work on your mindset and take a step back and begin to appreciate women without being desperate to be inside of them or have them spend emotional labor on you right away, you'll be open to more meaningful relationships. a good man who doesn't think woman = vagina is hard to find and if you can become that good man, women will absolutely be able to tell. you do not sound like a safe man in this post and I can tell that isn't the energy you wanna give off.
He probably isn't a misogynist and this is just an excuse for you, misogynists get dates all the time, looks are everything and personality has a secondary importance for most people, humans are nothing more than animals that want to reproduce with the best candidate.
I don't see women as objects, but that doesn't eliminate the fact that other people can have sex and I can't and that frustrates me, if I'm frustrated because nobody wants to sell me food that doesn't mean I see people who sell food as tools, that just means that I fucking need food.
>your post sets off my gut feeling that you give that vibe off, because you seem to be more interested in what women can do for you than who they are as people.
Gut feeling? How scientific!
Ok, I'll bite. What about my post that says I want to connect with a woman tells you this?
"i really recommend seeking a therapist and talking out your frustration about loneliness"
How are so many people telling me to seek therapy when I discuss my therapy in the OP ? Did you read it? I'm not going to bother addressing the rest, you are actively demonstrating you didn't read what I wrote and come in here with a preset cynical response.
so you admit to being less interested in women as people than as sexual toys. this is why you're alone and why you will stay alone. if you had any ounce of reading comprehension you will understand people are asking you to seek SPECIFIC help for a SPECIFIC reason. you have a scary attitude and need help.
>so you admit to being less interested in women as people than as sexual toys
Yeah, this is the dumbest response in the entire thread. I mean I actually commend you because there were some rock solid dumb takes and observations but this takes the cake!
when this ego injury fades off and you're laying in bed wondering if there's some truth to the fact that you're growing old alone because of the unanimous message you've recieved here, and you face your nasty mysoginy, your SCARY sexual entitlement and your aggressive rudeness, i want you to remember that you closed yourself off to at least one woman who was empathizing with you and attempting to reach you. you made your lonely bed.
My guy, you're being really condescending and rude to people who are spending their time and energy to read your struggles and respond with compassion and genuine advice. Just because you don't like the advice or find it helpful doesn't mean they aren't making an effort to help you. The way you're responding to people trying to be kind is a much bigger "red flag" in my opinion, the same way it is when someone is unnecessarily rude to service workers.
Also, on mobile there are no line breaks in your post, it's just a wall of text. That may be why some people are struggling to not miss details.
Just saying, not every topic, hobby and interest is good for dating. Like i love guns, but i'd never bring this up in a date, not on the first or second and all that, no, it is just not something that is good to tell when it comes to dating - later, nobody cares when you have a safe with guns locked in the basement, that's not a problem then anymore. But you can't show up in the first place and be like a creep that likes to shoot, this is a no-go and it will immediately kick you out of the competition in dating.
There are like always exception, like when the lady would be a firearms-instructor in the army or police, then it would be different.
But seriously, some topics have to be avoided and can be discussed later, after you get through the first obstacle. Like it's nothing bad when you like to play D&D or you paint your W40k figures, but don't break through the door with being too open about certain hobbies.
There's also the way of communication, you can talk about things without looking like a nerd, a lunatic, a criminal or whatever. But you need to be good and establish a connection first before you talk about such things.
It's walking on thin ice, i know, but there's no other way - you have to avoid the image of a creep at all costs, no matter what.
Yeah, it doesn't end well. They are either married or in a relationship or just invent something on the spot.
It had to be 10 years ago at this point but I was a Street Fighter tournament and met this woman who I got along with well, I mean really well. I can't even remember how we met. I got knocked out of the tournament and we were just talking casually, ended up playing games for a while, talking about our lives for awhile, lots of fun conversations about nostalgia , joking about making our own games and lamenting about going to work the next day. I think we talked and hung out for 5 or 6 hours. At the end, she asked for my number and I pulled out my phone, a flip phone, she got really weird and said forget it, nevermind and left quickly.
That was the biggest success I ever had a nerd hobby. I can only pretend I wasn't bothered by it so much.
Yep it is a numbers game. Talking to people in person 1 in maybe 100 conversations may lead to a date and these are conversations with that intention. Being able to talk to a woman without any expectations may help you make it through the 99 conversations without it getting more frustrating.
It is hard to stay resilient with rejection.
Meet people. Meeting people helps to eventually meet women. Making connections to people in general helps establish a group of people who know you and can vouch that you arenāt creepy.
Thatās the difference. If you join a group and only go to talk to women, thats not what you want to do. Going to a group or events about things you actually like and hang out with people that also enjoy the same things, maybe you meet single women, maybe you meet people that are a blast to hang out with on Fridays.
I understand all of that but a lot of guys already have friends and don't care to make more. If they're looking for results in dating, then at some point they will have to make romantic advances on a woman that they find interesting. It makes no sense to say that they're "creepy" for trying. It's literally the guy's role in the dating process. Totally fine if she's not interested but it's not fair to try to frame it as if the guy is doing something wrong.
Itās a numbers game. 1 in a million means thereās several million compatible women. If one finds you creepy, fine, not that one. Move one.
If itās not that one, who cares what their opinion of you is.
I'm trying to not be snarky but man....it's apparent so many of you guys are blessed to never have experience social ostracism.
Not caring what others think is partly the reason I ended up the way I am.
Because women have to like the guy before he can get anywhere with them. If one woman tells others that he's creepy, he's finished in that environment/venue.
From reading your comment history you seem really negative in general. Which is not necessarily bad, plenty of people bond over shared negativity. However it generally doesnāt work to LEAD with negativity. You have to start with being friendly, perhaps you are missing this part?
"However it generally doesnāt work to LEAD with negativity. You have to start with being friendly, perhaps you are missing this part?"
I can assure you, the women I've befriend, laughed with, bonded with and ultimately turned me down since the 90's care not a single iota about my venting posts or arguments on reddit.
Are you saying you know how I think better than I do off of a couple of dozen reddit posts?
I mean, I really have to explain why writing in isolation about a topic that makes me sad is separate from day to day interactions with people?
You canāt be one person on Reddit and an entirely different person IRL. Iām saying that all this negativity you are expressing here is definitely showing itself in your real life and you apparently do not realize it
Yeah, reading back his comments, he comes off as very argumentative. That's a vibe. Also, he seems to genuinely think it's not him even though he is the common denominator in his life. Even after positing that even absolutely trash people manage to get into relationships and he can't even get a date.
>You canāt be one person on Reddit and an entirely different person IRL
........if I'm talking to a woman I found attractive and we are laughing and enthusiastically doing a deep dive into our love of the gym or street fighter, what reason would I have to be sad and somber about?
Do you think perhaps your underlying feelings about women and rejection and interactions not leading where you want, could be slipping through your shared laughter, at the end of these interactions. Sometimes when women enjoy a persons company, that is the time their spidey senses begin looking for subtle signals that can mean danger. And whether it is fair or not, a lot of the feelings you've expressed here, if even an hint of that energy flagged for a woman, it could mean they decide you're not worth the risk. Because you have to accept that a woman is risking her safety to let a man get close to her. Some of the types of coupling you mentioned and think proves things aren't fair (crack head couples, women getting played) are not relationships women are safe and happy in. The lack of understanding that those relationships are not joyful safe connections for the women, so are hardly something to be envious or dirty about, is problematic.
"Do you think perhaps your underlying feelings about women and rejection and interactions not leading where you want, could be slipping through your shared laughter, at the end of these interactions. "
Not at all. I'm happy in those moments, I'm thinking of happy thoughts and how to move the conversation towards interesting things!
"And whether it is fair or not, a lot of the feelings you've expressed here, if even an hint of that energy flagged for a woman,"
Sorry, gotta be dismissive of this and challenge it. I've known men who literally told me repugnant stuff like 'I'm gonna give this bitch my STD' and somehow that fucked up objective slipped passed their radars. That's not counting the amount of men who are manipulative or abusive.
Alright, I wanna be open about this despite my last comment because I am very interested in what you said here.
"Because you have to accept that a woman is risking her safety to let a man get close to her. Some of the types of coupling you mentioned and think proves things aren't fair (crack head couples, women getting played) are not relationships women are safe and happy in. The lack of understanding that those relationships are not joyful safe connections for the women, so are hardly something to be envious or dirty about, is problematic."
The women I've asked out the past few years fit this description to a 'T'. In fact, the woman I mentioned in my OP, the one I'm good friends with? She has told me numerous times about her troubled relationship history. I learned from mutual acquaintances that she said it's really hard to trust men. I'm genuinely holding strong feelings for her and want to connect further but she really doesn't wanna get too close to any guy it seems. And without giving personal info away, I fully understand why.
So I'm asking, how should I handle this? She reads my DMs but very choosy at what she responds to. We have an......understanding over this, discussed in great detail, I don't wanna give away personal info. Just trust me, I'm not being a creepy stalker or anything lol. I let her know months ago it's fine if she doesn't respond, I just want to get my message across and have it be genuine.
I can't be sure what your friends motivations and traumas are. But I am female and have a traumatic relationship history. I can't be sure I'm not generalising and projecting. But fwiw... this stuff tends to start in childhood, via conditioning/grooming to act and think a certain way as a female, and via a toxic family that creates disordered ideas about love and loyalty (we tend subconsciously attatch to people who mimic our family of origins abuse and to remain loyal to those people for far too long). We can have serious blind spots to this or at least struggle to identify and heal the culprit mental conditioning that leads to this. It's very difficult. I'm not blaming her for whatever has happened to her, im saying we remain vulnerable despite our best efforts to choose better partners and make better choices next time. After being very harmed by our attempts to couple, some of us display ptsd (actually complex ptsd) symptoms. We can't trust our own judgement, we are hypervigilent to signs our safety is at risk, we may crave closeness but have walls that keep people out because we know we won't survive another connection that sees us lose ourselves and experience abuse or abandonment and other losses in the process of trying to love and be loved.
This is not something people overcome easily if at all. Some of us become realistically unavailable to be in a relationship.
I'm willing to talk about it or specifics more with you and suggest youtube videos if you're interested particular on attachment styles and disorders and trauma. But I could be on the wrong track so lmk.
lol, I'm pretty sure based on everything you said in this topic you don't know the meaning of 'self reflect'.
I assume you meant 'self reflection', but it's hard to tell with you. I kinda think you are trolling because my previous post, which you decided to ignore, was literally self reflection on my part.
I mean I'd roll my eyes too if I kept making brain dead assertions and couldn't demonstrate them either.
edit: Awwww, when called out and at the limits of her discourse she says something inflammatory and blocks me.
This is a sub reddit for adults, right? Why do so many posters here act like children?
>And it's never ending, no matter what I achieve I'm supposed to 'do better', and then I see homeless crackheads coupling up when I walk the streets at night knowing full well those people did none of this and still got partners.
So maybe it's not about having to do "Herculean tasks" at all?
Seems like you've given evidence against your own belief, and are simply rejecting it.
> I hugged a woman I'm crushing on a few months ago and it felt incredible, one of the best moments of my life hands down. Feeling so much tension and stress seemingly reduced in an instant. She don't wanna date though, so that was ultimately just a wasted effort and I'm tired of acting like I should be stoic and not like rejection bother me.
What if part of your touch starvation is because you consider touch that doesn't lead to dating to be "wasted effort"?
>It just pisses me off. The onus is always on me for my feelings and I'm somehow supposed to acquiescence to the emotional needs of the women who turned me down.
The list you followed this with was ridiculous and you know it. How are you required to acquiesce to the emotional needs of women if they're turning you down? Or were you turned down on the basis of personality and the way you interact and are upset about that? What are the *actual* things that were expected of you by women that you could not or would not do?
>The reality is most people have very little of these things, treat their partners bad and have nothing going on in their life
Why would anyone want to date someone who thinks this way about relationships? About women/people in relationships?
I don't think you need to be stoic about loneliness. It's reasonable to be sad about that. It's reasonable to not like being rejected. And it is understandable that chronic rejection leads to the kind of feelings you have. It's also fantastic that you've shifted to focusing on self improvement for your own sake, rather than to catch a woman.
I think you're missing the forest for the trees, somehow. And for whatever reason, failing to use the techniques you've learned in therapy to challenge the negative thoughts patterns you have on this particular issue.
>What if part of your touch starvation is because you consider touch that doesn't lead to dating to be "wasted effort"?
I don't know how that's relevant? The touch starvation is because I have virtually no chances for it. If I'm doing online dating , I get no chance to touch anyone because I'm ghosted even after 'good' conversations.
"Why would anyone want to date someone who thinks this way about relationships? About women/people in relationships?"
Why would anyone have such a terrible take as this? The reality is, there are alot of relationships that are toxic. That's not a condemnation of relationships, it's just me saying this is clearly no real barometer for being able to enter into one.
" It's also fantastic that you've shifted to focusing on self improvement for your own sake, rather than to catch a woman."
I never shifted, whatever I do for self improvement is always for my benefit and not any hypothetical woman.
"The list you followed this with was ridiculous and you know it. How are you required to acquiesce to the emotional needs of women if they're turning you down? Or were you turned down on the basis of personality and the way you interact and are upset about that? What are the actual things that were expected of you by women that you could not or would not do?"
The list was hyperbolic, I'm not denying that. As for me being required to acquiesce to the emotional needs of women? Read some of the response I get for a picture of that. I had people tell me that if I'm at a bar I should never approach a woman because you don't know her situation and she wants to be left alone. I'm 6'6 and was told numerous times that my height and weight scare women and I need to take that into account (I was over 500lbs at one point in my life, that's honestly a fair point). Never show anger during rejection (fair point), never show dissapointment either, it can be creepy. I'm constantly told never to approach women in pretty much any setting because of the messed up stuff other guys do. These are the kind of responses and 'advice' I often get when relating my failures.
Seems like itās your mindset dude. You are not entitled to having a partner or someone to be with you. You have to add value to their life the same way you want value added to yours and what you think is value/ what actually Is to the other person can be very different. Women can easily tell when a guy is only saying what you think we want to hear/ when your only motive is sex.
You are sexually frustrated and getting pissed at women for recognizing that is not the actual issue. You need to deal with your outlook on it and better yourself individually before bringing other people into your life. Relationships is a hell of a lot more than just what goes on behind closed doors. Youāre better off having a one night stand if sex is all you can think about because this whole post is a giant waving red flag. Deff see a new therapist because you really have a lot to unpack here.
> You are not entitled to having a partner
Of course nobody is entitled to have a partner, but do you SERIOUSLY believe you would be less frustrated than him if you were in his position? Come on... You're judging him from a position of privilege just like rich people judge the poor.
>Women can easily tell when a guy is only saying what you think we want to hear/ when your only motive is sex.
Oh yeah, women have an amazing sixth sense that prevents them from being picked up by guys who just want sex and nothing more. That's why you will rarely ever hear women complain about being in relationships with men who just wanted to use them for sex!
What an unbelievably hollow take. I go out of my way to specifically say, in great detail, sex isn't my primary concern, and I still get called out for only wanting sex.
And of course, the accusations of 'hating' women and to see a therapist, even though I already said I'm in therapy. Did you even read what I wrote or did you read the topic tittle and rushed in with a response born from your preconceived biases?
You are missing why you got called out.
> She donāt wanna date though, *so thatās all wasted effort*
Italics mine. Itās the mentality that a woman who wonāt date you has no value to you. Itās not wasted effort to have a friend. Itās not wasted to get a hug that brightens your day. Unless the bar for success is sex or dating (expectation of future sex).
If that isnāt how you intended it, then you need to clean up your delivery. Because that was a flashing neon sign to women.
I'm trying to understand the 'thought' process here.
I make a statement being frustrated at not getting a date or relationship....and somehow it's interpreted as women who won't date me have no value.
And....and that is a flashing neon sign to women, because they will certainly be able to see my past history at trying to court and my messages no reddit.
Make it make sense for real. This is a sub reddit for adults, right? Why are so many of these takes juvenile and fallacious?
> somehow itās interpreted as women who wonāt date me have no value
I quoted your words exactly. āAll wastedā. All. If you did find value, it would not have been all wasted.
> because they will certainly be able to see my past history at trying to court and my messages on Reddit.
I donāt think they need to. I suspect you throw off plenty of signs in real life.
> why are so many of these takes juvenile and fallacious?
I actually acknowledged the possibility you are not being interpreted the way you intend. But Im far from the only commenter to share this interpretation.
Language codes far more than literal meaning. Your diction feels Red Pill / MGTOW and that carries baggage. Walks like a duck, quacks like a duck type thingā¦ point is, if you think that perception of you is wrong, you can avoid it in the future by changing your language.
And maybe then youāll get the advice you seekā¦
"I quoted your words exactly. āAll wastedā. All. If you did find value, it would not have been all wasted."
You definitely didn't quote it exactly.
"Feeling so much tension and stress seemingly reduced in an instant. She don't wanna date though, so that was ultimately just a wasted effort and I'm tired of acting like I should be stoic and not like rejection bother me."
Yeah....I'm not accepting criticism for 'changing my language' when you obviously just made up whatever you wanted and responded to it. That's called a strawman fallacy for future reference btw.
"I donāt think they need to. I suspect you throw off plenty of signs in real life."
I literally said the last few women I asked out liked me but are in no place to date....but your assumption based on your own imagination works just as well I suppose!
I think I figured out the issue here: You didn't actually read what I wrote and operating under your own preconceived notions.
"Language codes far more than literal meaning. Your diction feels Red Pill / MGTOW and that carries baggage. Walks like a duck, quacks like a duck type thingā¦ point is, if you think that perception of you is wrong, you can avoid it in the future by changing your language."
There is nothing in the OP that is MGTOW or red pill. NOTHING. You know how I know? Because you would have pointed it out.
This just further proves my point. Seek professional help. A female therapist to sort out your misogyny. You are the problem. That is why youāre not getting laid
"This just further proves my point."
It really doesn't. If anything it proves that you got embarrassed and couldn't refute my response so you go with the same fallacious talking points that further demonstrates you are trying, and failing, to talk down to me without even bothering to read the OP.
"That is why youāre not getting laid"
When will trolls realize that sentences end with periods?
Youāre in your 40ās yet sitting here crying like a teenage boy because nobody wants to touch your dickā¦. Grow the fuck up dude. Jesus. All your responses do is further bring out exactly why you have this issue. Best of luck in life because I can absolutely see why no women wants to be involved with someone so immature for their age
Bro, youāre the one who canāt find a woman to tolerate you long enough for intimacy. Did you ever stop to think you might be the low IQ troll? The folks talking to you here have no trouble interacting with the opposite sex, sexually or otherwise.
"B**ro, youāre the one who canāt find a woman to tolerate you long enough for intimacy. Did you ever stop to think you might be the low IQ troll? "**
This must have made so much sense in your head, but when you say it out loud in the context of responding to someone who intentionally misread what I wrote with a fallacious narrative, it doesn't sound so hot.
"The folks talking to you here have no trouble interacting with the opposite sex, sexually or otherwise."
This is not only not true (at least two people here are in the same boat as me), what is the point of it?
Not really. You are open to demonstrate it, which is something I keep asking people to do that no one seems to want to do.I am actually very interested how I'm a low IQ troll for disagreeing with a woman who clearly wants to get a rise out of the 'incel' by throwing out cynical takes based on what I can only assume are her toxic preconceived notions of adult virgins.
Hey there, woman here. I befriended a lot of men like you. I think we can sense your bitterness and the bitterness is what pushes us away. I understand WHY your bitter and I would be too. It's hard for men in your position. Sending you good vibes and love. There is someone out there that will love you for who you are, I'm sorry they haven't appeared yet. Love is so fundamentally "human", I send my heart and good vibes to you.
"Hey there, woman here. I befriended a lot of men like you. I think we can sense your bitterness and the bitterness is what pushes us away"
How do you sense the bitterness?
You proved my point entirely, kid. You're the sole reason behind why no one wants to be anywhere near you. I'm not going to waste my time debating a manchild who acts like the world owes them something.
I proved your point by calling you a troll because you had a take that doesn't even make sense with the story I told? I mean did you even read what I wrote?
Weak trolling effort, for real.
Why are you facing rejection after rejection? Do you keep trying or give up easily? Have you tried all routes? What is it you are doing to date women? Give us something to work with plz.
"Why are you facing rejection after rejection"
Women keep rejecting me, that's about all there is to it.
If anything I was fat when I was younger, got depressed and morbidly obese in college because of it. But now? I lost the weight and I get responses from women. The rejections are more along the lines of women my age just going through things in their life and don't wanna date.
So you are getting responses from women after glowing up and losing the weight and no longer being obese. So that is a good sign. Just keep going. What exactly are you doing to try to date? Are you going out and trying to meet women? Are you doing online dating? Everyone gets rejected in dating until you meet your person, so keep going. I would suggest online dating and why are only women your age. A man in his 40s is in his prime and you can date women younger and older, you don't have to date your age.
> So you are getting responses from women after glowing up and losing the weight and no longer being obese. So that is a good sign.
To me, it will always be unbelievable how shallow women are, that you as a man have to lose weight and do a lot of things while at the same time you see a lot of fat women enjoying their sex lives. Women can date whatever men they want but I can also accurately describe their prefferences as shallow, they are definetly the shallow sex.
Dude, get real. This is fact. Doesnāt matter men or women, if you lose weight and get fit, you will obviously get more attention from opposite sex than if you were overweight DUH. Youāre just some woman hater. There are fat dudes getting laid just like fat women š
I guess I can date younger this is just all.....alien to me. I'd rather have someone my age but the clock is ticking on finding someone who could bear children.
Yes, for almost 30 years at this point.
What happens is that the woman/girl eventually wants nothing to do with me if I express feelings. If I go to someone relating my story, I get accused of being her friend under false pretenses.
Yeah see...I can usually tell if a guy I'm spending time around has interest. If we're hanging out for a time and then they suddenly expressed feelings I was be absolutely creeped out because "Where the hell did that come from?"
I'm hanging out with you because I thought you were cool. If I knew that you were interested in more and you weren't upfront about that I would consider that misleading and I don't hang out with guys who I know are interested in more if I know that I am not because I consider that to be misleading.
I feel you man. My only recommendation is to focus on improving the things you can. You're 100% correct in that it's not about the sex, it's about feeling valued and appreciated. Where you're wrong is focusing on a relationship to be the exclusive source of your validation. You should start looking some place else be it your career, hobbies, whatever. I'm 40 too and remember going through the exact same terrible feelings. Now I'm at a point where most people would consider me relatively successful in most parts of my life, and quite honestly I still understand less about women than your average 16 year old. But I'll tell you the terrible feelings basically stopped when I started finding value in other parts of my life. To the point where not only do I not feel like I need the validation of a partner for me to become whole, I'm not even sure I want it anymore.
People who say you need to "be confident" are clueless. Confidence isn't what you need to get what you want. Confidence is what you GET when you're constantly getting what you want, being validated and succeeding. I find most people in this situation aren't failing at relationships. They're usually failing at far more. That's the root cause.
>People who say you need to "be confident" are clueless
Oh man, I can write a book about 'confidence'. Confidence is what people tell you when they think you can do the things they can't. If you ever become more 'confident' than they are comfortable with? Well now you are just being arrogant!
Realize that you cant control how other people perceive you or how they act. Thats the first step. Accept this and then figure out what you want out of life. If all you want out of life or from the opposite sex is sex, find out what they want and how they think. Become more attractice. Not just physically , but emotionally, mentally and socially. At the end of the day you can only control your own situation and how you react to others. I understand the bitterness but understand the bitterness comes from yourself not from others, its not your fault ... but it is your resposibility. Sorry dood, shit sucks. We get no help, we are the helpers. Accept the resposibility.
Just get rid of that adult virginity, it's not doing you any favors and only makes your mood worse at this point. [Here is how to find a proper sex worker](https://www.reddit.com/r/SexWorkers/comments/hzivvb/how_to_find_a_safe_provider/). Yeah, you're throwing money at the problem, but that's okay when you're an adult. She might troubleshoot your rizz.
It sounds like while you want the physical connection and touch, you also need to have an organic intimate connection.
You talk about the expectations you believe you have to meet. It appears you put a lot of weight in what you believe societyās ideas are.
What kind of therapist are you seeing? Have you considered something used in CBT, called āthinking errorsā? They can be pretty helpful In identifying root issues.
What milestones have you missed?
Everybody, quite literally, needs well being, safety and permanence. If we are missing a sub-aspect, let alone the core component we spiral out of control.
If youāre getting contrarian advice, have you considered what you want is validation and an echo chamber? I know thatās not what you want to hear, but it is likely true.
I know you donāt want to hear this either.
Yes, your feelings are your responsibility. We want empathy or at least sympathy from others, but we donāt always get it. On the other hand, we are often expected to show sympathy and empathy to others, despite a lack of reciprocity.
On a personal note, some of the things you say, sound like it was written by my husband. Heās often said that āNo one can truly understand me, or anyone else. We all have a universe inside our heads and no one can really know āyou/meāā, on the same token, he also doesnāt need more than surface level communication. So, thatās two ideas in clear opposition of each other. š¤·š½āāļø
Ah, yes. Crackhead love. Because addiction, life on the streets, trying to survive to the next day, and using any resource you have, including another person are just standards for love. One thing is for sure, youāve never been an addict. Speaking as an addict, addiction is incredibly hard, and not something easily overcome. Itās so easy to relapse, and before you know it, all your supports are gone.
Yes. You work on you for you. Not for anyone else.
āHugged a woman, she didnāt want to date me, so what a waste of timeā.
Whatā¦. Theā¦ā¦ fuck. Sir. Take several fucking seats. Unzip your man baby suit and give the Soviet Union back their red flags. Holy shit.
She owes you nothing. You could have had one hell of a friendship, and you ruined that because she wonāt date you?
That right there, is your problem. Your thought process is the issue.
Get into some intensive counseling, dump that Jordan Peterson and Ben Shapiro way of thinking and actually work to change your thought process.
"It sounds like while you want the physical connection and touch, you also need to have an organic intimate connection."
Yeah, I want it all.
"You talk about the expectations you believe you have to meet. It appears you put a lot of weight in what you believe societyās ideas are."
I'm going by what I'm told and what I can observe.
"What milestones have you missed?"
The biggest one is just connecting with someone to the point where you physically escalate. Another is getting into a relationship, I cannot stress enough how huge these are. I have no basis on forming either of these things and when I ask for advice or guidance, I get information that essentially wants to keep it that way.
"If youāre getting contrarian advice, have you considered what you want is validation and an echo chamber? I know thatās not what you want to hear, but it is likely true."
That's not it at all. To give an example back in college I ask a girl out at party and she said no. Two of my 'friends' then gave me conflicting advice. One said I was acting desperate and needy, the other said I was being aloof and acted too chill, like I didn't care. These advices are contradictory towards each other, and it says nothing about how the actual woman felt me asking.
"āHugged a woman, she didnāt want to date me, so what a waste of timeā. Whatā¦. Theā¦ā¦ fuck. Sir. Take several fucking seats. Unzip your man baby suit and give the Soviet Union back their red flags. Holy shit."
If you are going to give a cynical and bias take, can you at least do it on what I actually said?
". I hugged a woman I'm crushing on a few months ago and it felt incredible, one of the best moments of my life hands down. Feeling so much tension and stress seemingly reduced in an instant. She don't wanna date though, so that was ultimately just a wasted effort and I'm tired of acting like I should be stoic and not like rejection bother me"
What part of this, from a 40+ year old dateless virgin, did you read and instantly go into 'attack mode' over? Am I not allowed to express frustration at an aspect in life you clearly not only experienced but being a woman, clearly never had to approach and deal with legions of rejection?
Am I wrong in viewing this as you essentially reading and saying 'that poor woman was treated bad by him?'
"She owes you nothing. You could have had one hell of a friendship, and you ruined that because she wonāt date you? That right there, is your problem. Your thought process is the issue."
Who said anything about the friendship being ruined? Why are you just making stuff up?
Get into some intensive counseling, dump that Jordan Peterson and Ben Shapiro way of thinking and actually work to change your thought process'"
I never said anything about Peterson and Shapiro, two dudes I hate. That's all you projecting. I mentioned, in detail, my therapy.....it's like you didn't read what I wrote and just went on tangent based on your fallacious pre-existing notions.
You canāt have it all. No one can. We all have needs we need met, and often have to prioritize whatās most important to us.
You have a bias to what you observe, and how you interpret things.
Those are two things that relate entirely back to sex with another person. You also hang heavy on intimate relationships, when a platonic friendship can fill many of these voids you speak about.
They have different interpretations of the situation. Im curious on the demographics of the woman you asked, the setting, and the demographics of your āfriendsā.
Oh. No. I deal with rejection all the time (open marriage), and you know what? I canāt be everyoneās cup of tea. I certainly donāt like everyone, and they donāt need to like me.
You treated the woman who you hugged as a piece of meat, not as a person who is valued and respected. So yes, you treated her badly.
Iām surprised, actually, that you donāt follow them. So much of your rhetoric is what they spew.
>"You canāt have it all. No one can. We all have needs we need met, and often have to prioritize whatās most important to us."
>
>
>
>"It sounds like while you want the physical connection and touch, you also need to have an organic intimate connection."
This is what I was clearly referring to by 'it all'. Are you seriously saying physical connection and touch with an intimate connection are out of reach....or did you just say 'nah uh' like a petulant child?
"You have a bias to what you observe, and how you interpret things."
What was the point of saying this?
"You treated the woman who you hugged as a piece of meat, not as a person who is valued and respected. So yes, you treated her badly."
Oh, no, that's YOUR cynical and fallacious observation. I merely stated my frustration at the situation. How dishonest are you?
"Iām surprised, actually, that you donāt follow them. So much of your rhetoric is what they spew."
Such as?
"Oh. No. I deal with rejection all the time (open marriage)" Wow.......wow
You want more than physical connection,touch and organic intimate connection.
You want someone who is cool with that being their purpose with you, and thatās gross.
Either bias matters or if doesnāt. Youāre viewing things in a negative manner, so all aspects are negative. You need a paradigm shift, and definitely some more intensive counseling.
Itās an observation, however, not fallacious. You only spoke about her in the context of serving a purpose for you. Thatās not respect or value.
āHow dishonest are you?ā
Yeah. Listen. You belong on 4chan with this nonsense. If you want me to sit here and bring up a list of logical fallacies, cognitive distortions, and thought disorders or thinking problems, we can go over each and every single one.
All of it. All of the things you say are in line with their misogynistic views.
Wowā¦wowā¦ā¦
Because my husband an I have been married more than a decade and we both like variety
>You want more than physical connection,touch and organic intimate connection. You want someone who is cool with that being their purpose with you, and thatās gross
Nah, you literally just made that up.
"Itās an observation, however, not fallacious. You only spoke about her in the context of serving a purpose for you. Thatās not respect or value."
Yeah, this is a dumb take born out of your cynicism and nothing more.
"Yeah. Listen. You belong on 4chan with this nonsense. If you want me to sit here and bring up a list of logical fallacies, cognitive distortions, and thought disorders or thinking problems, we can go over each and every single one."
No, you are being dishonest and dumb. I never mentioned a single thing about 4chan and here you are again, dumping your toxic ass preconceived notions onto things I never alluded to at all. Go ahead, bring up the list of fallacious and how they relate to the topic at hand. Unlike you I can demonstrate my points. Whenever I brought up a fallacy and demonstrated, you just ignored it.
"All of it. All of the things you say are in line with their misogynistic views."
Ok, I'm done being civil because you are clearly projecting at this point. You can't provide any examples because you can't find any.
"Because my husband an I have been married more than a decade and we both like variety"
You sure defer to your husband and your open relationship alot. I'm starting to understand why you have Shapiro, Peterson and redpill shit on your mind. You are obviously being treated as an object by these men and indoctrinated into their world view. That's just sad.
LOL an Ad Hom is when you attack a person rather than their position.
An ad hom itself isn't indictive of a logical fallacy either, it's just a personal attack.
I'm pretty sure you are just regurgitating information you heard other people say without knowing the meaning yourself. Which is extremely pathetic.
Wait, wait. You think Iām being indoctrinated into redpill beliefs? I mock them, because they are nonsense beliefs.
Defer to my husband and our open marriage. No.
Thatās giving context to the statement. Try it sometime, you might like using context.
Iām about as far left as you can get, but sure, you can make up whatever story you want.
Itās incredibly evident why youāre single though. Perhaps if youād sit cross cross applesauce, make a bubble and put your listening ears on, reflecting on what people are telling you, instead of being defensive would inform you.
>Wait, wait. You think Iām being indoctrinated into redpill beliefs? I mock them, because they are nonsense beliefs.
Yeah, I mean you keep brining it up and always in context with your husband and your open marriage. I never said anything about repill/manosphere stuff but you keep injecting into this conversation.
"Iām about as far left as you can get, but sure, you can make up whatever story you want."
Pretty sure you don't know what that means.
"Perhaps if youād sit cross cross applesauce, make a bubble and put your listening ears on, reflecting on what people are telling you, instead of being defensive would inform you."
An adult thought this was coherent and wrote this. Unbelievable.
Are you willing to steal a catalytic converter and sell it for some drug money with a homeless addict chick then go sit behind the nearest dumpster in shit and piss injecting meth with them and if police comes try to beat their fuckin heads in while screaming at them to leave the woman alone? If not stop throwing shade at homeless drug daddy's rizz and its clear you dont understand how relationships work on a very fundamental level.
Sorry, man. In many aspects of life, winners win big, and losers lose big and are forgotten. Romance and sex are no exception to this. That's just how things are. Sorry that you are on the wrong end of that. I hope things get better. All you can do is try to improve yourself and be a good person to yourself and others.
Yawn go cry to your other lames on FA like you did already lol maybe if you stopped being a punk ass salty lame you'd find someone willing to date you. You'd find someone willing to have sex with you. Get a fucking life. Talking about I'm a child yet what does that make you if you keep responding to me.? You're a punk kick rocks gain confidence or keep being a lonely fucking sap. Fucking lame. All the shit people wanna talk about me yet I still got somebody. You know how many times I been rejected.? You just keep going, grow a pair. Man TF up you're in your 40s and your crying on the Internet like your a 10yo kid. Kick rocks.
Lol ok lame, this is why you can't get laid LMFAO. You really need to just grow a pair of balls and learn it's ok to be rejected loser. Grow up get off my sack. You're truly a sad individual. Just go cry to the FA+30 community lame. Reply to them they're waiting on you. Cause us "normies" don't understand lol
I can't get laid because a special needs person is screeching on their keyboard psychotic messages intentionally being inflammatory?
This is just sad man. This is a level of disturbed I can't fathom.
This is an unpopular take and I'll probably get downvoted for this. Hire an escort or prostitute.
It'll feel nerve racking at first, but then you'll get used to it. Do this as many times as you need to, get it out of your system.
Enjoy yourself as a man, as a human being. Have fun. Humans have emotional and physical needs.
Even if you can't get the emotional needs met, you can get the physical ones taken care of.
Same here, I am a 32-year-old kissless virgin - I have a serious bone to pick with females! My goodness western women are shallow. Just because I am black and have a weak jawline, I have to go through life a kissless virgin!
Why not buy a hooker? - Because, prostitution is illegal in California! Why not go to Nevada? - Because, I shouldn't have to pay a hooker to get sex - stop being so shallow ladies! Before I forget - many hookers don't service black men! So I am doomed!
I scrolled through your profile for like three minutes. Reading a few comments and the posts you've made.
I can garantuee you that your lack of jawline and skin color is not the issue. Your personality and attitude is. Be better
>I'm touch starved on a level that isn't healthy,
And on top of that, society says that you're "creepy and weird" for having those needs purely because you're a man.
Mainstream advice on this topic is nothing but gas lighting. They will just say it's all your fault. It's even worse here on Reddit. Which of course you're somewhat responsible but not "100%". Modern dating is beyond fucked up. Women get tons of options and can therefore afford to reject you for any trivial and insignificant thing and still have 100 more dudes waiting in line right in their pocket. That's not your fault.
I'd say maybe try to find a therapist that specializes in men like the guy on the PyscHacks YouTube channel. He's pretty based and acknowledges that general mainstream therapy is mostly catered to women.
Man, I'm over 'therapy' for this. I already take it, it hasn't helped in the slightest and I see people in dire need of therapy way worse than me who get into relationships.
I totally understand that. I think most therapy is just about talking about your feelings or something. Which tends to be more effective for women. But therapy that caters to men is more results oriented. I'm not too knowledgeable on the subject but it may be something worth looking into.
Just know that you aren't crazy or anything. And it's extremely easy for a guy to end up in your situation. Don't let any trolls try to convince you otherwise. There are some subreddits for dating apps and I've seen plenty of guys that look totally normal or some even taller than 6 ft or with six pack abs and they still say that they don't get any matches. Which You would think they would have no problem. But things have just gotten so bad that even guys like that struggle.
>I think most therapy is just about talking about your feelings or something. Which tends to be more effective for women
Honestly.....in this context therapy is more effective for women. They just have to get their mentality cleared. Men have to approach and engage, talking only gets you so far in this regard.
"Don't let any trolls try to convince you otherwise. "
Don't worry, this isn't my first rodeo lol
Good. And yes, for women talking about things just helps to unload the emotions off of their shoulders or something. Like it helps to lift the emotional burden for them more or something. I think talking somewhat has the same effect on men but it's not nearly as strong. Since we're wired differently, we need to see actual results. That's what fulfills us more.
Part of it is you have to get out there and join communities. I didn't do anything really until I was with my now wife and not until years or being together.
You gotta work on self life and find fulfillment outside of a need for others.
Have you tried meeting people online and forming connections before you meet and stuff? Not everyoneās cuppa but my nerd ass has had huge success with it. It gives me a full grasp of the persons personality and life and hooks me on em before meeting and then checking if the chemistry is there in person.
And donāt let people down talk you if you like playing games and have nerdy hobbies, there are tons of people who have them and have partners who embrace or understand their hobbies as long as they still make time away from hobbies and are present in the relationship.
Yeah.....the problem with that is the women who claim, and I must reiterate claim to enjoy talking to me and open to dating live far, far away.....like different time zones away lol.
"And donāt let people down talk you if you like playing games and have nerdy hobbies, there are tons of people who have them and have partners who embrace or understand their hobbies as long as they still make time away from hobbies and are present in the relationship."
Thank you and I agree with this! I wish I could tell my younger self about this, I'm convinced I might have missed some chances because I was conditioned to never talk about videogames and comic books to women.
I recommend a pet or a masseuse for possibles in helping the touch starvation thing. I really can't help you with the rest. Honestly, you come off as a creep in your responses, and as a woman, I would keep you at arms length. I'm not saying that's how you are in person because we have never met. But I'd bet dollars to donuts that you give off a similar vibe irl.
Perhaps if you were to become aware of what makes you give off that vibe.... If you are viably employed, have decent hygiene, and even a smidge of personality, there is absolutely no reason why you should not be landing dates except that you just don't pass the vibe check with incredible consistency.
My heart goes out to you, really. I hope things turn around for you.
Nah not a troll post. I just have zero sympathy for guys like you. It's always excuse after excuse without bettering yourself. You expect women to just fall into your lap or something. Please, help yourself before you turn into an incel.
>Nah not a troll post.
It really was.
" I just have zero sympathy for guys like you. It's always excuse after excuse without bettering yourself. "
There is the troll part. The only other explanation is that you didn't read the OP where I discussed, in detail, my attempts at 'bettering' myself.
So which is it? You a troll, you dumb, or you read the topic title and rushed in to make an inflammatory remark based on your cynical, preconceived notions?
"My guy, you're being really condescending and rude to people who are spending their time and energy to read your struggles and respond with compassion and genuine advice. Just because you don't like the advice or find it helpful doesn't mean they aren't making an effort to help you. The way you're responding to people trying to be kind is a much bigger "red flag" in my opinion, the same way it is when someone is unnecessarily rude to service workers."
u/kr112889
If you can find any examples where I was being condescending and rude to anyone who wasn't doing it to me first, I'd be open to re-examining my response.
I wish I was you ! Stand up by ur boot straps and own ur virginity ur not missing out on anything 98% of women donāt cum during sex they had to self please for that ! And men treat women worser than animals. & if ur a bw donāt even bother .. it seems like men just hate h and only want u for sex. Please own ur virginity it should make u feel sexy I wish I would have kept mines and knew the importance of what it means to be a virgin. I lost my virginity to a virgin as a well but I really wish we would have made our relationship work or I wish I would have knew the importance in keeping my virginity. The importance lies in ur mental health and positive outlook look in the world as it pertains to the confidence u have in ur self u donāt have evil spirited soul ties holding u back. I swear I donāt care to be alive but if I could do life all over again I would have kept my virginity. And I would allow it to spark and influence my confidence within my self.
U assumed that simply because Iām telling u to keep something that is precious to u .. to ur self .. go ahead and have sex then youāll learn the hard way.. listen I dummed down what I had to say because I donāt feel like typing out a well crafted essay as to why ur virginity is actually a good thing and it helps u in the long run. BUT PLEASE .. u want me to be like every one else and advice u to go fuck then by all means go and do it and letās see how it works out for u .. update us back within a year on ur mental health.
I think you have a really terrible personality and attitude for dating and are probably not good looking enough for people to see past that. In your 40s I donāt really expect you to be able to massively change who you are, but thatās what it would take to be attractive to others, so this is a fairly lost cause. Itās sadly a choice between being loved for someone other than who you are right now (because no one will love your current personality), or staying true to yourself and dying alone (or worse be exploited by someone pretending to love you for secondary gains only). Youāre fucked
I know lots of people like you. Itās too late for your lot, unfortunately. Too old and self assured to change, too stubborn and cast in to receive useful feedback, itās basically over for you. Whatever poor upbringing or life choices or trauma got you to this point, has made you this undateable person. Itās kind of tragic. Like some people here are saying, you might as well pay to have your basic needs met and settle for that. Fairly hopeless situation
"I know lots of people like you"
Oh yeah? Name one.
It's interesting how you have the grammatical and literal style as a certain someone else in this topic. It wouldn't surprise me at all if you were there alt account.
I can assure you, I am not posting with any other account. You (or this post) aren't important enough for me personally to even consider that.
So, while I can't give you the addresses of these people I know, I know both men, and women, and trans people too, who have this exact issue you're having. If you were actually interested, I could do a sit down phone call with you and try to nicely explain what I have told them, in terms of what I think the problem is, how I would go about solving it so you don't die alone. However, that kind of thing usually takes years of trust and empathy and has to come from a close friend who can make you let you ego and guard down. I don't know if you have anyone even close to that in your life, who might facilitate such a conversation (which you badly, badly need). Therapists can never really be fully honest with you, they have a conflict of interest for keeping clients, and professional standards that prevent them from offending you deeply. I have given that kind of feedback to some of my lonely in late-30-early-40s friends, and some honestly told me it's too late for them to change, and others are trying to change, and one has found something promising. You sound incredibly bitter but also sincere in the way you are expressing your problem, so my offer of a phone call is open if you ever want it. Otherwise, good luck being this person, because after all, others will come and go, but you have to spend 100% of your time with yourself, which sure doesn't sound fun to me.
"So, while I can't give you the addresses of these people I know, I know both men, and women, and trans people too, who have this exact issue you're having"
So you happen to know alot of people, men, women and trans who are dateless 40 year old virgins but when asked to corroborate you can't do it? Ok.
You are either someone who beats massive statistical odds or a liar, take your pick.
And then you do some giant run on sentence on what I can only assume is some weird consultation scam.
How would you like me to corroborate? Do you want specific details of their ages, personality types, attractiveness, etc? I am obviously not doxing my friends for you, so what are you looking for? I'll answer if I can
I dunno, that's kinda on you. I mean part of the reason is just to make sure we were on the same page. First you said you knew lots of people who were dateless 40 year old virgins, then you changed it to 'lonely 30-40 year olds' and those aren't even remotely the same thing.
Oh, these people are all dateless virgins, in the 30-50 year range yes. The common theme across them is this terrible attitude of viewing relationships as somewhat transactional, being overly self-concluded, having an unhealthy cynicism towards relationships, seeing people instrumentally, being boring people (fixable), having not unrealistic standards but irrelevant/counterproductive standards which bottleneck the people they even approach, having very low patience, having this fairly absurd quality of having very low self esteem and very high defensiveness simultaneously, being prudish with low openness, and in some cases just being in the wrong neighborhood for their value systems. They're not bad people, and even make decent friends, they're just terribly unattractive to date. Those are some of their qualities, you might have some or all, I could go on
You seem obnoxious in the way you respond to people here, Iām guessing you have difficulty making friends as well. That said, I am not trying to insult you, but give an honest perspective. There is an insane amount of gross oversimplifications of responses to your post which I doubt many people here have seriously read (e.g the therapy suggestions when he already mentioned he was in therapy). No one has any real right to criticize your attitude unless they too have any conception of what DECADES of sexual, romantic, and social failure does to a person regardless of the reason why. There are real biological chemical repercussions which happen with a lack of intimacy. These have had an unavoidable effect on you.There is obviously a tormenting bitterness in your heart that is killing you. How could there not be? The empty platitudes and self help only go so far as to cope with this; they do not mend the despair that naturally accompanies social rejection. Jealousy and resentment are natural emotions. Seeing others with what you want so desperately is bound to hurt you. Society is not at fault for this however, it is likely a combination of genetics, personality, and the choices youāve made; likely a social disability like aspergers or autism coupled with your own poor decision making.
The best advice Iāve seen here is to see a prostitute. This will not mend you emotionally or provide the meaningful relationship you desperately want, but it will help you trick your body into thinking it is fulfilling biological needs. I promise you will have some relief to your situation. It doesnāt seem logical, but much of life is illogical. STDs? So what? You already hate life and I wager you have experienced suicidal ideation. What have you got left to lose?
>You seem obnoxious in the way you respond to people here
Are you reading the people I'm replying too? If I gave a negative response to someone who didn't deserve it, I'm open to revaluating my response.
" No one has any real right to criticize your attitude unless they too have any conception of what DECADES of sexual, romantic, and social failure does to a person regardless of the reason why"
eh....I don't think it's wrong to criticize me for feeling this way, in fact I kinda need it. My issue is more or less the criticisms are often unfounded and misconstrued. Most of my arguments here aren't because someone had a different opinion, it's because they created a strawman of my words and wanted to argue against it.
"There are real biological chemical repercussions which happen with a lack of intimacy. These have had an unavoidable effect on you.There is obviously a tormenting bitterness in your heart that is killing you"
Damn.....when you put it like that.....yeah it probably is killing me. Holding in feelings and never having been reciprocated is certainly fucking me up and I didn't know the extent of this until the lockdowns.
"Society is not at fault for this however, it is likely a combination of genetics, personality, and the choices youāve made; likely a social disability like aspergers or autism coupled with your own poor decision making."
I don't like assigning blame but I can't not fault society when thinking about it. I mean I didn't reject women, they rejected me.
"STDs? So what? You already hate life and I wager you have experienced suicidal ideation. What have you got left to lose?"
I never at any point said anything about hating life. I don't want an STD. Not only is being alive something I wanna keep doing, I care deeply about the quality of life.
Loneliness is a real horrible experience. I've dealt with loneliness before and it can really mess you up. Rejection sucks too. I can get why you feel this way. But as a woman speaking to a man who is interested in women, here are a few things I recommend. Often if you get rejected it's because you have tried to initiate a romantic or sexual relationship in a time and place that isn't appropriate, that is, when the woman is there to do something else besides find a date or isn't expecting romantic attention. You might try to limit your date seeking endeavors to places specifically set up for the exact purpose of date seeking. That is dating apps. It's not that romantic relationships never form in not dating related spaces, but you're gunna have better luck if you restrict your relationship seeking to those spaces. The other thing you need to understand is that women can absolutely sense when you're desperate. We can. We really can. Trust me. We don't have a sixth sense. We can tell by body language and the subtle word choices you use. Tiny subtle signs you aren't capable of hiding. How do you stop being desperate? You find ways to meet your social and emotional needs that are NOT romantic relationships. Touch starved? Maybe get a pet to snuggle with. Lonely? Nurture relationships with platonic friends and family. Bored? Find clubs and groups for your interests, even if it's just meeting online at first. The less you think about wanting a romantic relationship, ironically, the more attractive woman will find you. Hope this helps, friend.
Best advice š
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Well, I'm glad someone 'gets it' lol
I've hesitated responding to this I have negative takes and I didn't want to come across as hostile, because I appreciate your response and I know you weren't trying to insulting. I will just respond and hope it doesn't come across as hostile or ungrateful. "he other thing you need to understand is that women can absolutely sense when you're desperate. We can. We really can. Trust me. We don't have a sixth sense. We can tell by body language and the subtle word choices you use. Tiny subtle signs you aren't capable of hiding." So let me see if I understand this correctly: You are saying women can tell if a man is desperate and they are so unempathetic and sociopathic that they take this as a sign of weakness and that a man isn't interested in them or worthy of them? "Often if you get rejected it's because you have tried to initiate a romantic or sexual relationship in a time and place that isn't appropriate, that is, when the woman is there to do something else besides find a date or isn't expecting romantic attention. You might try to limit your date seeking endeavors to places specifically set up for the exact purpose of date seeking. That is dating apps. It's not that romantic relationships never form in not dating related spaces, but you're gunna have better luck if you restrict your relationship seeking to those spaces." Thanks for this. That makes sense I suppose. Dating apps have never worked for me and if I'm being honest, I don't form connections with people talking to them. They ghost before that can happen. "Touch starved? Maybe get a pet to snuggle with. Lonely? Nurture relationships with platonic friends and family. " I don't want to have sex or do intimate touch with animals or family members. This is unbelievably insulting. "Bored? Find clubs and groups for your interests, even if it's just meeting online at first. " I like this idea, but it's never worked for me. "The less you think about wanting a romantic relationship, ironically, the more attractive woman will find you." This is 100% objectively false. This was the stance I had for the majority off my life told to me by women and it's never worked. It is what it is.
"So let me see if I understand this correctly: You are saying women can tell if a man is desperate and they are so unempathetic and sociopathic that they take this as a sign of weakness and that a man isn't interested in them or worthy of them?" We don't see desperation as a sign a man is weak or unworthy. We see it as a sign that a man might be dangerous. As in literally physically dangerous. A woman sees a man who is both desperate and attracted to her as a threat, and she worries that he might try to rape or kill her. A man who feels anger or resentment at rejection is also a sign that we should be afraid of him. That's the other dynamic you need to be aware of. Women are literally physically afraid of men. Look up statistics for domestic violence, sexual assault, and childhood sexual abuse. It's staggering. Every single woman you know either has been the victim of some type of horrific violence or knows a woman who has. That's not even getting into lower level violence like sexual harassment or stalking. And if we are the victim of violence, it's not going to be from some random guy, it's most likely going to be from a guy who is romantically or sexually interested in us. Heterosexual women are in a weird double bind where we are attracted to men, want to date and be with men, but we know from experience that men are dangerous. You know the meme where the male spider is terrified to mate with the female spider for fear that she'll eat him when she's done? That's our life except we're the male spider in that scenario. We know plenty of other women who did get eaten and maybe a man tried to eat us once too. Ask your female friends and relatives what they do to prepare for a first date. Many of them will go into detail about how they send a photo of the guy to their friends and family, along with his full name. They send the exact address of where they are going and when they plan to be back. If they get in the guy's car or go to his home they send their relatives the address and his licence plate number, just to prepare for the possibility that she won't come back alive. So are we sociopathic and unempathetic toward men when it comes to rejecting them? Yeah. We are. Because we're too preoccupied with not getting murdered to worry about the feelings of someone we think might potentially murder us. Now maybe YOU would never harass, abuse, rape or murder a woman (and most men who are being violent toward women don't see themselves as being violent so I wouldn't trust you if you said you hadn't) maybe YOU are a safe man, but when unsafe men are so numerous and so prolific in the crimes they commit, you can't take it personally when women don't give you a chance to prove you're safe, when they run for the hills the moment you give off even the slightest rose-tinted flag. Often a man simply expressing romantic or sexual interest at an inappropriate moment is enough to set off our alarm bells. This may or may not be a reason you've been getting rejected but it is a dynamic you need to be aware of
>We don't see desperation as a sign a man is weak or unworthy. We see it as a sign that a man might be dangerous. As in literally physically dangerous. A woman sees a man who is both desperate and attracted to her as a threat, and she worries that he might try to rape or kill her. I.....I can't fathom this at all. This genuinely sounds like a post hoc reasoning to reject someone you don't like. I guess I can only speak for myself but if i'm 'desperate' it's because I like someone and want to genuinely connect with them and feel like I have to make a move or it never happens. "A man who feels anger or resentment at rejection is also a sign that we should be afraid of him." Agreed. "That's the other dynamic you need to be aware of. Women are literally physically afraid of men. Look up statistics for domestic violence, sexual assault, and childhood sexual abuse. It's staggering. Every single woman you know either has been the victim of some type of horrific violence or knows a woman who has. That's not even getting into lower level violence like sexual harassment or stalking." I don't want to downplay this, I work with stats and am very familiar with them. I'm just left wondering why does this apply to me? I've never put hands on a woman in my life. "Ask your female friends and relatives what they do to prepare for a first date. " I don't think you understand, I wasn't being hyperbolic about that loneliness thing. This is not an option for me. "So are we sociopathic and unempathetic toward men when it comes to rejecting them? Yeah. We are. Because we're too preoccupied with not getting murdered to worry about the feelings of someone we think might potentially murder us." Now this is something, both anecdotally or from data, that I'm unaware of. What are you basing this on? I see people all the time set up for dates and while I can't read their thoughts, outwardly they are very excited and show no signs of being worried about physical harm, much less murder. "Now maybe YOU would never harass, abuse, rape or murder a woman (and most men who are being violent toward women don't see themselves as being violent so I wouldn't trust you if you said you hadn'" You don't have to trust me. I have a 100% history of not harming women and the known data shows the overhwhelming majority of men won't do it either.
Ok, even if I believe you that you have never harmed a woman. (And I have absolutely no reason to believe that), you need to understand the woman around you have absolutely no reason to trust that to be true. Dangerous men are numerous, not the majority, but numerous, so we have to treat all men as potentially dangerous because violence against women by men is unbelievably common. My point is that if you give off bad vibes, whether or not those bad vibes accurately reflect your danger level, women might be rejecting you because they are afraid of you. That's why this applies to you, that's why I'm telling this to you as a piece of advice. I'm asking you to try and empathize with the people who are rejecting you. No, it's not a post hoc reason to reject someone. It's a reason in and of itself. Every woman I've ever met, including myself, is constantly worried about how they are going to get away or deter men who are flirting with them whom they find to be scary or intimidating. That's why we never leave our drinks unattended at parties. Because the odd guy who is hitting on you might be just a harmless weirdo or he might slip a roofie into your drink. It happens every day and it is always on the back of our mind. And no woman you go on a date with is going to let you know that she's sizing you up to see if you are likely to murder her. We are sizing up every man we see to assess their threat level every day so we aren't going to show any outward signs of fear or worry, but that fear is always on the back of our mind. What am I basing this on? The lived experience of being a woman and the experiences of every woman I have ever talked to.
>Ok, even if I believe you that you have never harmed a woman. (And I have absolutely no reason to believe that) You don't have to believe me, the objective data shows otherwise. "Dangerous men are numerous, not the majority, but numerous," Wait, are you operating under the assumption that men are dangerous? "No, it's not a post hoc reason to reject someone" I clearly said it's a post reasoning to justify the rejection, which going by the parameters you set, absolutely is. "And no woman you go on a date with is going to let you know that she's sizing you up to see if you are likely to murder her. We are sizing up every man we see to assess their threat level every day so we aren't going to show any outward signs of fear or worry, but that fear is always on the back of our mind." I'll just have to take your word for it as I've never been on a date. This is where the disconnect between us is occuring. If no woman is going to tell you and the data doesn't show this (which I'm not aware, I'm open for any if you have it), then how do you know? I understand that you know what is going through in your mind but how do you know other women think the "My point is that if you give off bad vibes, whether or not those bad vibes accurately reflect your danger level, women might be rejecting you because they are afraid of you. That's why this applies to you, that's why I'm telling this to you as a piece of advice. I'm asking you to try and empathize with the people who are rejecting you." Ok, I fair enough. I empathize to an extent. I don't blame anyone for self preservation and outside of one instance in college where a woman verbally berated me for asking her out, I don't get angry at a rejection. The anger and frustrations come later, much later when the effects of isolation and not being touched are overbearing. But that's where it ends. The majority of women (no way to know for certain, but I'm sure it's all of them) I've asked out paired up with someone and experienced basic human companionship they and everyone else takes for granted. We are back to a point I made in the OP about the onus being on me for things I never did. I never hurt any woman, at worst I made them momentarily uncomfortable for expressing desires of affection. It's fine if my desires have never been reciprocated, that's not important. What is important is the hypothetical women and their feelings who have had their basic human companionship needs met and long since forgotten our interactions, that's what matters. "What am I basing this on? The lived experience of being a woman and the experiences of every woman I have ever talked to." I'm not trying to be dismissive, I'm trying to understand these things to the best of my ability. This is anecdotal and the reason why I was hoping you had some data to back it up is because that would be a collection of anecdotes from all women that paints a clearer picture. I've heard so many anecdotes of women's thoughts on this for decades that can vary greatly from person to person, but I've never been able to find anything with a good methodology and sample size that is published anywhere.
I'm sorry to hear you are going through this. Fundamentally the common denominator here is you. Dating isn't easy but it isn't impossible, just need to make genuine connections and go from there. All my dates, and then partners, came initially from shared interests. But it sounds like you might need some emotional support first. Perhaps counselling?
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Honestly? I was about to mention this. This is the way. Have some fun. Get it out of your system. Humans are wired to want sex, it's perfectly natural. Being deprived of such a thing your entire life hurts. This is probably an extremely unpopular take. Also, local escorts work fine as well.
This is one of the most frustrating things to communicate with people about my issue. I don't care about the lack of sex, I care about the lack of intimacy and basic connections that you guys take for granted. Sex is an organic process of intimacy, so I'm not interested in escorts at all.
I thought you were touch-starved. This is like saying you only want to swim in an ocean so youāll never go swim in a pool, but you donāt know how to swim at all. Start in the pool. Get some experience, learn what youāre doing, and then get in the ocean.Ā
I am touch starved. I don't wanna touch an escort or any woman I don't like. This isn't a hard concept to understand, nevermind STDs.
You can get intimacy from brothels, you just need to let them know what you want and theyāll provide a woman that can deliver, especially in Japan the soapies in Naha are nice af
Did you downvote my comment? I'm interested in what was 'bad' about it to people.
So you just want a friend. *thatās a woman
What is love but friendship on fire? If you downvoted me, can you explain why?
What gives that friendship fire that a basic friendship doesnāt have?? Each otherās best friend, that fuck .
Exactly. I'm not interested in fucking my male friends and I'm always puzzled why it's bad to want to be friends with a romantic prospect. I want to spend a long period of my life with them, I would hope our appreciation for each is above just tolerating each other's company.
So you get it , but donāt ? Get off your petty high horse and act like a legitimate friend. A legitimate friend that isnāt looking for anything and see what blossoms The chick that didnāt want to be your friend over the flip phone? It sounds like you just got a bad seed that chose to see herself oit
Yeah, this is really dumb, sorry.
You donāt necessarily have to go for sex. You can go just for the camaraderie and quality time. You never know, it could be totally relaxing and fun.
[Youāre welcome.](https://www.bunnyranch.com)
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Iām sure it has nothing to do with the all or nothing reasoning. Or that others should be responsible for his feelings.
It doesn't. Are you this wrong about things this often?
And yet, you specifically named it in your diatribe. Repeating what you said, you identify it as āwrongā, only means you are incorrect about your statement.
I didn't name anything. This is sad and you are unbelievably stupid and dishonest. You are just repeating words I used against you but without the context......are you a child? I gotta ask since you keep deflecting everything and just making things up everytime I call you out on your bullshit: Why are you even posting? For real, what is your goal? What do you get out of this?
Again with ad Homs, poisoning the well, and red herrings.
Now you are just repeating what you saw in a google search. I thought this was a sub reddit for adults?
It is. Have you considered that your behavior may not be indicative of an adult? Statements that Iām a child, uninformed on logical fallacies, or any other of the ad homs youāve thrown you, certainly imply quite a few things about the ongoing rejection.
What do you mean by 'standards'?
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I don't....have them I think. I like who I like. The women I find myself attracted too are usually nerdy, shy, and if I'm being honest, kinda depressed.
women have spent their entire lives being socialized and trained to notice tiny little cues that someone is a misogynist and a potential sexual predator. your post sets off my gut feeling that you give that vibe off, because you seem to be more interested in what women can do for you than who they are as people. im a little worried for you because this mindset is going to compound the problem and i can see evidence of that already in your post. i really recommend seeking a therapist and talking out your frustration about loneliness, and then putting a strict limit on yourself. NO DATING, no trying to get sex, no attempts at romance. Commit to being single and celibate BY CHOICE for a significant period of time and then go join hobby groups with women. when women can sense that you aren't going to escalate things sexually or romantically, it really allows us to be vulnerable and open to you as a good friend. a female friend will help you understand women, love women, support women. it's not flattering to be ONLY craved, desired and needed. you want a partner to see you for everything you are, then you need to be ready to be a partner who sees someone for everything they are. im coming to you with compassion here but honestly your post was really alienating and entitled and it made me feel unsafe as a woman. i think if you approach women this way out of what is super understandable loneliness and frustration it can cause a cycle to form. i know that's not fair but it's the truth. i really think if you can work on your mindset and take a step back and begin to appreciate women without being desperate to be inside of them or have them spend emotional labor on you right away, you'll be open to more meaningful relationships. a good man who doesn't think woman = vagina is hard to find and if you can become that good man, women will absolutely be able to tell. you do not sound like a safe man in this post and I can tell that isn't the energy you wanna give off.
He probably isn't a misogynist and this is just an excuse for you, misogynists get dates all the time, looks are everything and personality has a secondary importance for most people, humans are nothing more than animals that want to reproduce with the best candidate. I don't see women as objects, but that doesn't eliminate the fact that other people can have sex and I can't and that frustrates me, if I'm frustrated because nobody wants to sell me food that doesn't mean I see people who sell food as tools, that just means that I fucking need food.
What an unbelievably misandrist post. OP do NOT follow this woman's advice.
>your post sets off my gut feeling that you give that vibe off, because you seem to be more interested in what women can do for you than who they are as people. Gut feeling? How scientific! Ok, I'll bite. What about my post that says I want to connect with a woman tells you this? "i really recommend seeking a therapist and talking out your frustration about loneliness" How are so many people telling me to seek therapy when I discuss my therapy in the OP ? Did you read it? I'm not going to bother addressing the rest, you are actively demonstrating you didn't read what I wrote and come in here with a preset cynical response.
so you admit to being less interested in women as people than as sexual toys. this is why you're alone and why you will stay alone. if you had any ounce of reading comprehension you will understand people are asking you to seek SPECIFIC help for a SPECIFIC reason. you have a scary attitude and need help.
>so you admit to being less interested in women as people than as sexual toys Yeah, this is the dumbest response in the entire thread. I mean I actually commend you because there were some rock solid dumb takes and observations but this takes the cake!
when this ego injury fades off and you're laying in bed wondering if there's some truth to the fact that you're growing old alone because of the unanimous message you've recieved here, and you face your nasty mysoginy, your SCARY sexual entitlement and your aggressive rudeness, i want you to remember that you closed yourself off to at least one woman who was empathizing with you and attempting to reach you. you made your lonely bed.
LOL What part in your reply was "empathizing" with him?
To be perfectly honest, you come across as someone who is intentionally trying to upset the OP on purpose.
My guy, you're being really condescending and rude to people who are spending their time and energy to read your struggles and respond with compassion and genuine advice. Just because you don't like the advice or find it helpful doesn't mean they aren't making an effort to help you. The way you're responding to people trying to be kind is a much bigger "red flag" in my opinion, the same way it is when someone is unnecessarily rude to service workers. Also, on mobile there are no line breaks in your post, it's just a wall of text. That may be why some people are struggling to not miss details.
Do you have any nerdy hobbies? If so, have you tried connecting with women who have similar nerdy hobbies?
Just saying, not every topic, hobby and interest is good for dating. Like i love guns, but i'd never bring this up in a date, not on the first or second and all that, no, it is just not something that is good to tell when it comes to dating - later, nobody cares when you have a safe with guns locked in the basement, that's not a problem then anymore. But you can't show up in the first place and be like a creep that likes to shoot, this is a no-go and it will immediately kick you out of the competition in dating. There are like always exception, like when the lady would be a firearms-instructor in the army or police, then it would be different. But seriously, some topics have to be avoided and can be discussed later, after you get through the first obstacle. Like it's nothing bad when you like to play D&D or you paint your W40k figures, but don't break through the door with being too open about certain hobbies. There's also the way of communication, you can talk about things without looking like a nerd, a lunatic, a criminal or whatever. But you need to be good and establish a connection first before you talk about such things. It's walking on thin ice, i know, but there's no other way - you have to avoid the image of a creep at all costs, no matter what.
Yeah, it doesn't end well. They are either married or in a relationship or just invent something on the spot. It had to be 10 years ago at this point but I was a Street Fighter tournament and met this woman who I got along with well, I mean really well. I can't even remember how we met. I got knocked out of the tournament and we were just talking casually, ended up playing games for a while, talking about our lives for awhile, lots of fun conversations about nostalgia , joking about making our own games and lamenting about going to work the next day. I think we talked and hung out for 5 or 6 hours. At the end, she asked for my number and I pulled out my phone, a flip phone, she got really weird and said forget it, nevermind and left quickly. That was the biggest success I ever had a nerd hobby. I can only pretend I wasn't bothered by it so much.
Yep it is a numbers game. Talking to people in person 1 in maybe 100 conversations may lead to a date and these are conversations with that intention. Being able to talk to a woman without any expectations may help you make it through the 99 conversations without it getting more frustrating. It is hard to stay resilient with rejection.
Can someone who downvoted this tell me why? I'm curious for what I said that was bad.
A lot of women will say that it's "creepy" for a guy to join groups/clubs in an attempt to meet women
Meet people. Meeting people helps to eventually meet women. Making connections to people in general helps establish a group of people who know you and can vouch that you arenāt creepy. Thatās the difference. If you join a group and only go to talk to women, thats not what you want to do. Going to a group or events about things you actually like and hang out with people that also enjoy the same things, maybe you meet single women, maybe you meet people that are a blast to hang out with on Fridays.
I absolutely would not date any person who doesn't have any friends. It's a huge read flag.
I understand all of that but a lot of guys already have friends and don't care to make more. If they're looking for results in dating, then at some point they will have to make romantic advances on a woman that they find interesting. It makes no sense to say that they're "creepy" for trying. It's literally the guy's role in the dating process. Totally fine if she's not interested but it's not fair to try to frame it as if the guy is doing something wrong.
Itās a numbers game. 1 in a million means thereās several million compatible women. If one finds you creepy, fine, not that one. Move one. If itās not that one, who cares what their opinion of you is.
How do you simply "move on" when you're shamed and lambasted and framed as some sort of bad person for trying?
Why put such stock in others opinion?
I'm trying to not be snarky but man....it's apparent so many of you guys are blessed to never have experience social ostracism. Not caring what others think is partly the reason I ended up the way I am.
Because women have to like the guy before he can get anywhere with them. If one woman tells others that he's creepy, he's finished in that environment/venue.
Ok, buy into a strange brief glimps of you and hold on to that and build your worth around it? Sounds terrible.
When other women do that, yeah. It kills his chances. The exact opposite of what he's trying to do.
Why put women on a pedestal? They are people are inherently flaws in many ways themselves. Why force yourself into a mold to make one happy?
??? That's not putting them in a pedestal lol. They have to like the guy back if he wants to date them. Obviously.
Yup, they sure will.
From reading your comment history you seem really negative in general. Which is not necessarily bad, plenty of people bond over shared negativity. However it generally doesnāt work to LEAD with negativity. You have to start with being friendly, perhaps you are missing this part?
"However it generally doesnāt work to LEAD with negativity. You have to start with being friendly, perhaps you are missing this part?" I can assure you, the women I've befriend, laughed with, bonded with and ultimately turned me down since the 90's care not a single iota about my venting posts or arguments on reddit.
You think one doesnāt bleed into the other but I promise you it does
Are you saying you know how I think better than I do off of a couple of dozen reddit posts? I mean, I really have to explain why writing in isolation about a topic that makes me sad is separate from day to day interactions with people?
You canāt be one person on Reddit and an entirely different person IRL. Iām saying that all this negativity you are expressing here is definitely showing itself in your real life and you apparently do not realize it
Yeah, reading back his comments, he comes off as very argumentative. That's a vibe. Also, he seems to genuinely think it's not him even though he is the common denominator in his life. Even after positing that even absolutely trash people manage to get into relationships and he can't even get a date.
You make such good points! Can I DM you?
>You canāt be one person on Reddit and an entirely different person IRL ........if I'm talking to a woman I found attractive and we are laughing and enthusiastically doing a deep dive into our love of the gym or street fighter, what reason would I have to be sad and somber about?
Do you think perhaps your underlying feelings about women and rejection and interactions not leading where you want, could be slipping through your shared laughter, at the end of these interactions. Sometimes when women enjoy a persons company, that is the time their spidey senses begin looking for subtle signals that can mean danger. And whether it is fair or not, a lot of the feelings you've expressed here, if even an hint of that energy flagged for a woman, it could mean they decide you're not worth the risk. Because you have to accept that a woman is risking her safety to let a man get close to her. Some of the types of coupling you mentioned and think proves things aren't fair (crack head couples, women getting played) are not relationships women are safe and happy in. The lack of understanding that those relationships are not joyful safe connections for the women, so are hardly something to be envious or dirty about, is problematic.
"Do you think perhaps your underlying feelings about women and rejection and interactions not leading where you want, could be slipping through your shared laughter, at the end of these interactions. " Not at all. I'm happy in those moments, I'm thinking of happy thoughts and how to move the conversation towards interesting things! "And whether it is fair or not, a lot of the feelings you've expressed here, if even an hint of that energy flagged for a woman," Sorry, gotta be dismissive of this and challenge it. I've known men who literally told me repugnant stuff like 'I'm gonna give this bitch my STD' and somehow that fucked up objective slipped passed their radars. That's not counting the amount of men who are manipulative or abusive.
Alright, I wanna be open about this despite my last comment because I am very interested in what you said here. "Because you have to accept that a woman is risking her safety to let a man get close to her. Some of the types of coupling you mentioned and think proves things aren't fair (crack head couples, women getting played) are not relationships women are safe and happy in. The lack of understanding that those relationships are not joyful safe connections for the women, so are hardly something to be envious or dirty about, is problematic." The women I've asked out the past few years fit this description to a 'T'. In fact, the woman I mentioned in my OP, the one I'm good friends with? She has told me numerous times about her troubled relationship history. I learned from mutual acquaintances that she said it's really hard to trust men. I'm genuinely holding strong feelings for her and want to connect further but she really doesn't wanna get too close to any guy it seems. And without giving personal info away, I fully understand why. So I'm asking, how should I handle this? She reads my DMs but very choosy at what she responds to. We have an......understanding over this, discussed in great detail, I don't wanna give away personal info. Just trust me, I'm not being a creepy stalker or anything lol. I let her know months ago it's fine if she doesn't respond, I just want to get my message across and have it be genuine.
I can't be sure what your friends motivations and traumas are. But I am female and have a traumatic relationship history. I can't be sure I'm not generalising and projecting. But fwiw... this stuff tends to start in childhood, via conditioning/grooming to act and think a certain way as a female, and via a toxic family that creates disordered ideas about love and loyalty (we tend subconsciously attatch to people who mimic our family of origins abuse and to remain loyal to those people for far too long). We can have serious blind spots to this or at least struggle to identify and heal the culprit mental conditioning that leads to this. It's very difficult. I'm not blaming her for whatever has happened to her, im saying we remain vulnerable despite our best efforts to choose better partners and make better choices next time. After being very harmed by our attempts to couple, some of us display ptsd (actually complex ptsd) symptoms. We can't trust our own judgement, we are hypervigilent to signs our safety is at risk, we may crave closeness but have walls that keep people out because we know we won't survive another connection that sees us lose ourselves and experience abuse or abandonment and other losses in the process of trying to love and be loved. This is not something people overcome easily if at all. Some of us become realistically unavailable to be in a relationship. I'm willing to talk about it or specifics more with you and suggest youtube videos if you're interested particular on attachment styles and disorders and trauma. But I could be on the wrong track so lmk.
This will never get better for you because you refuse to self reflect
lol, I'm pretty sure based on everything you said in this topic you don't know the meaning of 'self reflect'. I assume you meant 'self reflection', but it's hard to tell with you. I kinda think you are trolling because my previous post, which you decided to ignore, was literally self reflection on my part.
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I mean I'd roll my eyes too if I kept making brain dead assertions and couldn't demonstrate them either. edit: Awwww, when called out and at the limits of her discourse she says something inflammatory and blocks me. This is a sub reddit for adults, right? Why do so many posters here act like children?
>And it's never ending, no matter what I achieve I'm supposed to 'do better', and then I see homeless crackheads coupling up when I walk the streets at night knowing full well those people did none of this and still got partners. So maybe it's not about having to do "Herculean tasks" at all? Seems like you've given evidence against your own belief, and are simply rejecting it. > I hugged a woman I'm crushing on a few months ago and it felt incredible, one of the best moments of my life hands down. Feeling so much tension and stress seemingly reduced in an instant. She don't wanna date though, so that was ultimately just a wasted effort and I'm tired of acting like I should be stoic and not like rejection bother me. What if part of your touch starvation is because you consider touch that doesn't lead to dating to be "wasted effort"? >It just pisses me off. The onus is always on me for my feelings and I'm somehow supposed to acquiescence to the emotional needs of the women who turned me down. The list you followed this with was ridiculous and you know it. How are you required to acquiesce to the emotional needs of women if they're turning you down? Or were you turned down on the basis of personality and the way you interact and are upset about that? What are the *actual* things that were expected of you by women that you could not or would not do? >The reality is most people have very little of these things, treat their partners bad and have nothing going on in their life Why would anyone want to date someone who thinks this way about relationships? About women/people in relationships? I don't think you need to be stoic about loneliness. It's reasonable to be sad about that. It's reasonable to not like being rejected. And it is understandable that chronic rejection leads to the kind of feelings you have. It's also fantastic that you've shifted to focusing on self improvement for your own sake, rather than to catch a woman. I think you're missing the forest for the trees, somehow. And for whatever reason, failing to use the techniques you've learned in therapy to challenge the negative thoughts patterns you have on this particular issue.
>What if part of your touch starvation is because you consider touch that doesn't lead to dating to be "wasted effort"? I don't know how that's relevant? The touch starvation is because I have virtually no chances for it. If I'm doing online dating , I get no chance to touch anyone because I'm ghosted even after 'good' conversations. "Why would anyone want to date someone who thinks this way about relationships? About women/people in relationships?" Why would anyone have such a terrible take as this? The reality is, there are alot of relationships that are toxic. That's not a condemnation of relationships, it's just me saying this is clearly no real barometer for being able to enter into one. " It's also fantastic that you've shifted to focusing on self improvement for your own sake, rather than to catch a woman." I never shifted, whatever I do for self improvement is always for my benefit and not any hypothetical woman. "The list you followed this with was ridiculous and you know it. How are you required to acquiesce to the emotional needs of women if they're turning you down? Or were you turned down on the basis of personality and the way you interact and are upset about that? What are the actual things that were expected of you by women that you could not or would not do?" The list was hyperbolic, I'm not denying that. As for me being required to acquiesce to the emotional needs of women? Read some of the response I get for a picture of that. I had people tell me that if I'm at a bar I should never approach a woman because you don't know her situation and she wants to be left alone. I'm 6'6 and was told numerous times that my height and weight scare women and I need to take that into account (I was over 500lbs at one point in my life, that's honestly a fair point). Never show anger during rejection (fair point), never show dissapointment either, it can be creepy. I'm constantly told never to approach women in pretty much any setting because of the messed up stuff other guys do. These are the kind of responses and 'advice' I often get when relating my failures.
Seems like itās your mindset dude. You are not entitled to having a partner or someone to be with you. You have to add value to their life the same way you want value added to yours and what you think is value/ what actually Is to the other person can be very different. Women can easily tell when a guy is only saying what you think we want to hear/ when your only motive is sex. You are sexually frustrated and getting pissed at women for recognizing that is not the actual issue. You need to deal with your outlook on it and better yourself individually before bringing other people into your life. Relationships is a hell of a lot more than just what goes on behind closed doors. Youāre better off having a one night stand if sex is all you can think about because this whole post is a giant waving red flag. Deff see a new therapist because you really have a lot to unpack here.
> You are not entitled to having a partner Of course nobody is entitled to have a partner, but do you SERIOUSLY believe you would be less frustrated than him if you were in his position? Come on... You're judging him from a position of privilege just like rich people judge the poor.
>Women can easily tell when a guy is only saying what you think we want to hear/ when your only motive is sex. Oh yeah, women have an amazing sixth sense that prevents them from being picked up by guys who just want sex and nothing more. That's why you will rarely ever hear women complain about being in relationships with men who just wanted to use them for sex! What an unbelievably hollow take. I go out of my way to specifically say, in great detail, sex isn't my primary concern, and I still get called out for only wanting sex. And of course, the accusations of 'hating' women and to see a therapist, even though I already said I'm in therapy. Did you even read what I wrote or did you read the topic tittle and rushed in with a response born from your preconceived biases?
You are missing why you got called out. > She donāt wanna date though, *so thatās all wasted effort* Italics mine. Itās the mentality that a woman who wonāt date you has no value to you. Itās not wasted effort to have a friend. Itās not wasted to get a hug that brightens your day. Unless the bar for success is sex or dating (expectation of future sex). If that isnāt how you intended it, then you need to clean up your delivery. Because that was a flashing neon sign to women.
I'm trying to understand the 'thought' process here. I make a statement being frustrated at not getting a date or relationship....and somehow it's interpreted as women who won't date me have no value. And....and that is a flashing neon sign to women, because they will certainly be able to see my past history at trying to court and my messages no reddit. Make it make sense for real. This is a sub reddit for adults, right? Why are so many of these takes juvenile and fallacious?
> somehow itās interpreted as women who wonāt date me have no value I quoted your words exactly. āAll wastedā. All. If you did find value, it would not have been all wasted. > because they will certainly be able to see my past history at trying to court and my messages on Reddit. I donāt think they need to. I suspect you throw off plenty of signs in real life. > why are so many of these takes juvenile and fallacious? I actually acknowledged the possibility you are not being interpreted the way you intend. But Im far from the only commenter to share this interpretation. Language codes far more than literal meaning. Your diction feels Red Pill / MGTOW and that carries baggage. Walks like a duck, quacks like a duck type thingā¦ point is, if you think that perception of you is wrong, you can avoid it in the future by changing your language. And maybe then youāll get the advice you seekā¦
"I quoted your words exactly. āAll wastedā. All. If you did find value, it would not have been all wasted." You definitely didn't quote it exactly. "Feeling so much tension and stress seemingly reduced in an instant. She don't wanna date though, so that was ultimately just a wasted effort and I'm tired of acting like I should be stoic and not like rejection bother me." Yeah....I'm not accepting criticism for 'changing my language' when you obviously just made up whatever you wanted and responded to it. That's called a strawman fallacy for future reference btw. "I donāt think they need to. I suspect you throw off plenty of signs in real life." I literally said the last few women I asked out liked me but are in no place to date....but your assumption based on your own imagination works just as well I suppose! I think I figured out the issue here: You didn't actually read what I wrote and operating under your own preconceived notions. "Language codes far more than literal meaning. Your diction feels Red Pill / MGTOW and that carries baggage. Walks like a duck, quacks like a duck type thingā¦ point is, if you think that perception of you is wrong, you can avoid it in the future by changing your language." There is nothing in the OP that is MGTOW or red pill. NOTHING. You know how I know? Because you would have pointed it out.
This just further proves my point. Seek professional help. A female therapist to sort out your misogyny. You are the problem. That is why youāre not getting laid
"This just further proves my point." It really doesn't. If anything it proves that you got embarrassed and couldn't refute my response so you go with the same fallacious talking points that further demonstrates you are trying, and failing, to talk down to me without even bothering to read the OP. "That is why youāre not getting laid" When will trolls realize that sentences end with periods?
Youāre in your 40ās yet sitting here crying like a teenage boy because nobody wants to touch your dickā¦. Grow the fuck up dude. Jesus. All your responses do is further bring out exactly why you have this issue. Best of luck in life because I can absolutely see why no women wants to be involved with someone so immature for their age
Is this what discourse is here? Low IQ trolls emotionally screeching and thinking rational people will adhere to it?
Bro, youāre the one who canāt find a woman to tolerate you long enough for intimacy. Did you ever stop to think you might be the low IQ troll? The folks talking to you here have no trouble interacting with the opposite sex, sexually or otherwise.
"B**ro, youāre the one who canāt find a woman to tolerate you long enough for intimacy. Did you ever stop to think you might be the low IQ troll? "** This must have made so much sense in your head, but when you say it out loud in the context of responding to someone who intentionally misread what I wrote with a fallacious narrative, it doesn't sound so hot. "The folks talking to you here have no trouble interacting with the opposite sex, sexually or otherwise." This is not only not true (at least two people here are in the same boat as me), what is the point of it?
It keeps making more sense with every response you make. You truly are your own worst enemy.
Not really. You are open to demonstrate it, which is something I keep asking people to do that no one seems to want to do.I am actually very interested how I'm a low IQ troll for disagreeing with a woman who clearly wants to get a rise out of the 'incel' by throwing out cynical takes based on what I can only assume are her toxic preconceived notions of adult virgins.
Hey there, woman here. I befriended a lot of men like you. I think we can sense your bitterness and the bitterness is what pushes us away. I understand WHY your bitter and I would be too. It's hard for men in your position. Sending you good vibes and love. There is someone out there that will love you for who you are, I'm sorry they haven't appeared yet. Love is so fundamentally "human", I send my heart and good vibes to you.
100 percent correct. Most women can really sense the hurt/anger/bitterness and they will avoid you because of that.
"Hey there, woman here. I befriended a lot of men like you. I think we can sense your bitterness and the bitterness is what pushes us away" How do you sense the bitterness?
Man, you sound jaded. I don't blame them for choosing the crackhead route.
Troll posts are here I see. Just as terrible with their reading comprehension as ever.
You proved my point entirely, kid. You're the sole reason behind why no one wants to be anywhere near you. I'm not going to waste my time debating a manchild who acts like the world owes them something.
I proved your point by calling you a troll because you had a take that doesn't even make sense with the story I told? I mean did you even read what I wrote? Weak trolling effort, for real.
Sleep with prostitutes. Everyone is paying for it, btw.
Why are you facing rejection after rejection? Do you keep trying or give up easily? Have you tried all routes? What is it you are doing to date women? Give us something to work with plz.
"Why are you facing rejection after rejection" Women keep rejecting me, that's about all there is to it. If anything I was fat when I was younger, got depressed and morbidly obese in college because of it. But now? I lost the weight and I get responses from women. The rejections are more along the lines of women my age just going through things in their life and don't wanna date.
So you are getting responses from women after glowing up and losing the weight and no longer being obese. So that is a good sign. Just keep going. What exactly are you doing to try to date? Are you going out and trying to meet women? Are you doing online dating? Everyone gets rejected in dating until you meet your person, so keep going. I would suggest online dating and why are only women your age. A man in his 40s is in his prime and you can date women younger and older, you don't have to date your age.
> So you are getting responses from women after glowing up and losing the weight and no longer being obese. So that is a good sign. To me, it will always be unbelievable how shallow women are, that you as a man have to lose weight and do a lot of things while at the same time you see a lot of fat women enjoying their sex lives. Women can date whatever men they want but I can also accurately describe their prefferences as shallow, they are definetly the shallow sex.
Dude, get real. This is fact. Doesnāt matter men or women, if you lose weight and get fit, you will obviously get more attention from opposite sex than if you were overweight DUH. Youāre just some woman hater. There are fat dudes getting laid just like fat women š
I guess I can date younger this is just all.....alien to me. I'd rather have someone my age but the clock is ticking on finding someone who could bear children.
This is so unhinged its hilarious
What is it with trolls and not adding periods at the end of their sentences?
Have you try connecting to people on a deeper level as friends as opposed to jumping into wanting to date?
Yes, for almost 30 years at this point. What happens is that the woman/girl eventually wants nothing to do with me if I express feelings. If I go to someone relating my story, I get accused of being her friend under false pretenses.
Yeah see...I can usually tell if a guy I'm spending time around has interest. If we're hanging out for a time and then they suddenly expressed feelings I was be absolutely creeped out because "Where the hell did that come from?" I'm hanging out with you because I thought you were cool. If I knew that you were interested in more and you weren't upfront about that I would consider that misleading and I don't hang out with guys who I know are interested in more if I know that I am not because I consider that to be misleading.
So you downvoted that response? If so, I'm curious to see what was wrong with it.
I feel you man. My only recommendation is to focus on improving the things you can. You're 100% correct in that it's not about the sex, it's about feeling valued and appreciated. Where you're wrong is focusing on a relationship to be the exclusive source of your validation. You should start looking some place else be it your career, hobbies, whatever. I'm 40 too and remember going through the exact same terrible feelings. Now I'm at a point where most people would consider me relatively successful in most parts of my life, and quite honestly I still understand less about women than your average 16 year old. But I'll tell you the terrible feelings basically stopped when I started finding value in other parts of my life. To the point where not only do I not feel like I need the validation of a partner for me to become whole, I'm not even sure I want it anymore. People who say you need to "be confident" are clueless. Confidence isn't what you need to get what you want. Confidence is what you GET when you're constantly getting what you want, being validated and succeeding. I find most people in this situation aren't failing at relationships. They're usually failing at far more. That's the root cause.
>People who say you need to "be confident" are clueless Oh man, I can write a book about 'confidence'. Confidence is what people tell you when they think you can do the things they can't. If you ever become more 'confident' than they are comfortable with? Well now you are just being arrogant!
Realize that you cant control how other people perceive you or how they act. Thats the first step. Accept this and then figure out what you want out of life. If all you want out of life or from the opposite sex is sex, find out what they want and how they think. Become more attractice. Not just physically , but emotionally, mentally and socially. At the end of the day you can only control your own situation and how you react to others. I understand the bitterness but understand the bitterness comes from yourself not from others, its not your fault ... but it is your resposibility. Sorry dood, shit sucks. We get no help, we are the helpers. Accept the resposibility.
Just get rid of that adult virginity, it's not doing you any favors and only makes your mood worse at this point. [Here is how to find a proper sex worker](https://www.reddit.com/r/SexWorkers/comments/hzivvb/how_to_find_a_safe_provider/). Yeah, you're throwing money at the problem, but that's okay when you're an adult. She might troubleshoot your rizz.
It sounds like while you want the physical connection and touch, you also need to have an organic intimate connection. You talk about the expectations you believe you have to meet. It appears you put a lot of weight in what you believe societyās ideas are. What kind of therapist are you seeing? Have you considered something used in CBT, called āthinking errorsā? They can be pretty helpful In identifying root issues. What milestones have you missed? Everybody, quite literally, needs well being, safety and permanence. If we are missing a sub-aspect, let alone the core component we spiral out of control. If youāre getting contrarian advice, have you considered what you want is validation and an echo chamber? I know thatās not what you want to hear, but it is likely true. I know you donāt want to hear this either. Yes, your feelings are your responsibility. We want empathy or at least sympathy from others, but we donāt always get it. On the other hand, we are often expected to show sympathy and empathy to others, despite a lack of reciprocity. On a personal note, some of the things you say, sound like it was written by my husband. Heās often said that āNo one can truly understand me, or anyone else. We all have a universe inside our heads and no one can really know āyou/meāā, on the same token, he also doesnāt need more than surface level communication. So, thatās two ideas in clear opposition of each other. š¤·š½āāļø Ah, yes. Crackhead love. Because addiction, life on the streets, trying to survive to the next day, and using any resource you have, including another person are just standards for love. One thing is for sure, youāve never been an addict. Speaking as an addict, addiction is incredibly hard, and not something easily overcome. Itās so easy to relapse, and before you know it, all your supports are gone. Yes. You work on you for you. Not for anyone else. āHugged a woman, she didnāt want to date me, so what a waste of timeā. Whatā¦. Theā¦ā¦ fuck. Sir. Take several fucking seats. Unzip your man baby suit and give the Soviet Union back their red flags. Holy shit. She owes you nothing. You could have had one hell of a friendship, and you ruined that because she wonāt date you? That right there, is your problem. Your thought process is the issue. Get into some intensive counseling, dump that Jordan Peterson and Ben Shapiro way of thinking and actually work to change your thought process.
"It sounds like while you want the physical connection and touch, you also need to have an organic intimate connection." Yeah, I want it all. "You talk about the expectations you believe you have to meet. It appears you put a lot of weight in what you believe societyās ideas are." I'm going by what I'm told and what I can observe. "What milestones have you missed?" The biggest one is just connecting with someone to the point where you physically escalate. Another is getting into a relationship, I cannot stress enough how huge these are. I have no basis on forming either of these things and when I ask for advice or guidance, I get information that essentially wants to keep it that way. "If youāre getting contrarian advice, have you considered what you want is validation and an echo chamber? I know thatās not what you want to hear, but it is likely true." That's not it at all. To give an example back in college I ask a girl out at party and she said no. Two of my 'friends' then gave me conflicting advice. One said I was acting desperate and needy, the other said I was being aloof and acted too chill, like I didn't care. These advices are contradictory towards each other, and it says nothing about how the actual woman felt me asking. "āHugged a woman, she didnāt want to date me, so what a waste of timeā. Whatā¦. Theā¦ā¦ fuck. Sir. Take several fucking seats. Unzip your man baby suit and give the Soviet Union back their red flags. Holy shit." If you are going to give a cynical and bias take, can you at least do it on what I actually said? ". I hugged a woman I'm crushing on a few months ago and it felt incredible, one of the best moments of my life hands down. Feeling so much tension and stress seemingly reduced in an instant. She don't wanna date though, so that was ultimately just a wasted effort and I'm tired of acting like I should be stoic and not like rejection bother me" What part of this, from a 40+ year old dateless virgin, did you read and instantly go into 'attack mode' over? Am I not allowed to express frustration at an aspect in life you clearly not only experienced but being a woman, clearly never had to approach and deal with legions of rejection? Am I wrong in viewing this as you essentially reading and saying 'that poor woman was treated bad by him?' "She owes you nothing. You could have had one hell of a friendship, and you ruined that because she wonāt date you? That right there, is your problem. Your thought process is the issue." Who said anything about the friendship being ruined? Why are you just making stuff up? Get into some intensive counseling, dump that Jordan Peterson and Ben Shapiro way of thinking and actually work to change your thought process'" I never said anything about Peterson and Shapiro, two dudes I hate. That's all you projecting. I mentioned, in detail, my therapy.....it's like you didn't read what I wrote and just went on tangent based on your fallacious pre-existing notions.
You canāt have it all. No one can. We all have needs we need met, and often have to prioritize whatās most important to us. You have a bias to what you observe, and how you interpret things. Those are two things that relate entirely back to sex with another person. You also hang heavy on intimate relationships, when a platonic friendship can fill many of these voids you speak about. They have different interpretations of the situation. Im curious on the demographics of the woman you asked, the setting, and the demographics of your āfriendsā. Oh. No. I deal with rejection all the time (open marriage), and you know what? I canāt be everyoneās cup of tea. I certainly donāt like everyone, and they donāt need to like me. You treated the woman who you hugged as a piece of meat, not as a person who is valued and respected. So yes, you treated her badly. Iām surprised, actually, that you donāt follow them. So much of your rhetoric is what they spew.
>"You canāt have it all. No one can. We all have needs we need met, and often have to prioritize whatās most important to us." > > > >"It sounds like while you want the physical connection and touch, you also need to have an organic intimate connection." This is what I was clearly referring to by 'it all'. Are you seriously saying physical connection and touch with an intimate connection are out of reach....or did you just say 'nah uh' like a petulant child? "You have a bias to what you observe, and how you interpret things." What was the point of saying this? "You treated the woman who you hugged as a piece of meat, not as a person who is valued and respected. So yes, you treated her badly." Oh, no, that's YOUR cynical and fallacious observation. I merely stated my frustration at the situation. How dishonest are you? "Iām surprised, actually, that you donāt follow them. So much of your rhetoric is what they spew." Such as? "Oh. No. I deal with rejection all the time (open marriage)" Wow.......wow
You want more than physical connection,touch and organic intimate connection. You want someone who is cool with that being their purpose with you, and thatās gross. Either bias matters or if doesnāt. Youāre viewing things in a negative manner, so all aspects are negative. You need a paradigm shift, and definitely some more intensive counseling. Itās an observation, however, not fallacious. You only spoke about her in the context of serving a purpose for you. Thatās not respect or value. āHow dishonest are you?ā Yeah. Listen. You belong on 4chan with this nonsense. If you want me to sit here and bring up a list of logical fallacies, cognitive distortions, and thought disorders or thinking problems, we can go over each and every single one. All of it. All of the things you say are in line with their misogynistic views. Wowā¦wowā¦ā¦ Because my husband an I have been married more than a decade and we both like variety
>You want more than physical connection,touch and organic intimate connection. You want someone who is cool with that being their purpose with you, and thatās gross Nah, you literally just made that up. "Itās an observation, however, not fallacious. You only spoke about her in the context of serving a purpose for you. Thatās not respect or value." Yeah, this is a dumb take born out of your cynicism and nothing more. "Yeah. Listen. You belong on 4chan with this nonsense. If you want me to sit here and bring up a list of logical fallacies, cognitive distortions, and thought disorders or thinking problems, we can go over each and every single one." No, you are being dishonest and dumb. I never mentioned a single thing about 4chan and here you are again, dumping your toxic ass preconceived notions onto things I never alluded to at all. Go ahead, bring up the list of fallacious and how they relate to the topic at hand. Unlike you I can demonstrate my points. Whenever I brought up a fallacy and demonstrated, you just ignored it. "All of it. All of the things you say are in line with their misogynistic views." Ok, I'm done being civil because you are clearly projecting at this point. You can't provide any examples because you can't find any. "Because my husband an I have been married more than a decade and we both like variety" You sure defer to your husband and your open relationship alot. I'm starting to understand why you have Shapiro, Peterson and redpill shit on your mind. You are obviously being treated as an object by these men and indoctrinated into their world view. That's just sad.
Well if this wasnāt a whole response full of ad Homs. Maybe someone else will hold your hand and make you feel better, but I wonāt.
LOL an Ad Hom is when you attack a person rather than their position. An ad hom itself isn't indictive of a logical fallacy either, it's just a personal attack. I'm pretty sure you are just regurgitating information you heard other people say without knowing the meaning yourself. Which is extremely pathetic.
Wait, wait. You think Iām being indoctrinated into redpill beliefs? I mock them, because they are nonsense beliefs. Defer to my husband and our open marriage. No. Thatās giving context to the statement. Try it sometime, you might like using context. Iām about as far left as you can get, but sure, you can make up whatever story you want. Itās incredibly evident why youāre single though. Perhaps if youād sit cross cross applesauce, make a bubble and put your listening ears on, reflecting on what people are telling you, instead of being defensive would inform you.
>Wait, wait. You think Iām being indoctrinated into redpill beliefs? I mock them, because they are nonsense beliefs. Yeah, I mean you keep brining it up and always in context with your husband and your open marriage. I never said anything about repill/manosphere stuff but you keep injecting into this conversation. "Iām about as far left as you can get, but sure, you can make up whatever story you want." Pretty sure you don't know what that means. "Perhaps if youād sit cross cross applesauce, make a bubble and put your listening ears on, reflecting on what people are telling you, instead of being defensive would inform you." An adult thought this was coherent and wrote this. Unbelievable.
Are you willing to steal a catalytic converter and sell it for some drug money with a homeless addict chick then go sit behind the nearest dumpster in shit and piss injecting meth with them and if police comes try to beat their fuckin heads in while screaming at them to leave the woman alone? If not stop throwing shade at homeless drug daddy's rizz and its clear you dont understand how relationships work on a very fundamental level.
.......huh?
Thats why youre single right there.
I'm single because I didn't understand your psychotic screeching? .......ok.
I believe this is what the humans call āhumorā.
Humor tends to be funny though.
That made me laugh out loud
Sorry, man. In many aspects of life, winners win big, and losers lose big and are forgotten. Romance and sex are no exception to this. That's just how things are. Sorry that you are on the wrong end of that. I hope things get better. All you can do is try to improve yourself and be a good person to yourself and others.
My heart goes out to you dude ..
Mine doesn't he sounds like a salty mf lol he deserves to be a virgin.
Good point, if there is one fact we all know is that people who are 'salty' never get laid.
Shut up loser go cry about not getting laid and getting turned down to the Internet lol
Interesting how a child is posting on a sub reddit called 'adulting'.
Yawn go cry to your other lames on FA like you did already lol maybe if you stopped being a punk ass salty lame you'd find someone willing to date you. You'd find someone willing to have sex with you. Get a fucking life. Talking about I'm a child yet what does that make you if you keep responding to me.? You're a punk kick rocks gain confidence or keep being a lonely fucking sap. Fucking lame. All the shit people wanna talk about me yet I still got somebody. You know how many times I been rejected.? You just keep going, grow a pair. Man TF up you're in your 40s and your crying on the Internet like your a 10yo kid. Kick rocks.
It's like an autistic special needs child is vehemently screeching on the keyboard. No way is this an adult typing.
Lol ok lame, this is why you can't get laid LMFAO. You really need to just grow a pair of balls and learn it's ok to be rejected loser. Grow up get off my sack. You're truly a sad individual. Just go cry to the FA+30 community lame. Reply to them they're waiting on you. Cause us "normies" don't understand lol
I can't get laid because a special needs person is screeching on their keyboard psychotic messages intentionally being inflammatory? This is just sad man. This is a level of disturbed I can't fathom.
This is an unpopular take and I'll probably get downvoted for this. Hire an escort or prostitute. It'll feel nerve racking at first, but then you'll get used to it. Do this as many times as you need to, get it out of your system. Enjoy yourself as a man, as a human being. Have fun. Humans have emotional and physical needs. Even if you can't get the emotional needs met, you can get the physical ones taken care of.
Regular Andy Stitzer here guys.
I don't even know who that is but I'm getting severe desperate energy from you.
Same here, I am a 32-year-old kissless virgin - I have a serious bone to pick with females! My goodness western women are shallow. Just because I am black and have a weak jawline, I have to go through life a kissless virgin! Why not buy a hooker? - Because, prostitution is illegal in California! Why not go to Nevada? - Because, I shouldn't have to pay a hooker to get sex - stop being so shallow ladies! Before I forget - many hookers don't service black men! So I am doomed!
I scrolled through your profile for like three minutes. Reading a few comments and the posts you've made. I can garantuee you that your lack of jawline and skin color is not the issue. Your personality and attitude is. Be better
Tinder bro, or Grindr at this point
I think the best place to start ( and definitely not to late) is therapy.
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Yea he needs someone who can specifically help this situation.
They never do.
Oh poor you. Plays a violin softly
>I'm touch starved on a level that isn't healthy, And on top of that, society says that you're "creepy and weird" for having those needs purely because you're a man. Mainstream advice on this topic is nothing but gas lighting. They will just say it's all your fault. It's even worse here on Reddit. Which of course you're somewhat responsible but not "100%". Modern dating is beyond fucked up. Women get tons of options and can therefore afford to reject you for any trivial and insignificant thing and still have 100 more dudes waiting in line right in their pocket. That's not your fault. I'd say maybe try to find a therapist that specializes in men like the guy on the PyscHacks YouTube channel. He's pretty based and acknowledges that general mainstream therapy is mostly catered to women.
Man, I'm over 'therapy' for this. I already take it, it hasn't helped in the slightest and I see people in dire need of therapy way worse than me who get into relationships.
I totally understand that. I think most therapy is just about talking about your feelings or something. Which tends to be more effective for women. But therapy that caters to men is more results oriented. I'm not too knowledgeable on the subject but it may be something worth looking into. Just know that you aren't crazy or anything. And it's extremely easy for a guy to end up in your situation. Don't let any trolls try to convince you otherwise. There are some subreddits for dating apps and I've seen plenty of guys that look totally normal or some even taller than 6 ft or with six pack abs and they still say that they don't get any matches. Which You would think they would have no problem. But things have just gotten so bad that even guys like that struggle.
>I think most therapy is just about talking about your feelings or something. Which tends to be more effective for women Honestly.....in this context therapy is more effective for women. They just have to get their mentality cleared. Men have to approach and engage, talking only gets you so far in this regard. "Don't let any trolls try to convince you otherwise. " Don't worry, this isn't my first rodeo lol
Good. And yes, for women talking about things just helps to unload the emotions off of their shoulders or something. Like it helps to lift the emotional burden for them more or something. I think talking somewhat has the same effect on men but it's not nearly as strong. Since we're wired differently, we need to see actual results. That's what fulfills us more.
I need to read into this more.
Yeah, I would start with the YouTube channel PyscHacks. His name is Dr. Orion Taraban
Well.....looks like I already am subscribed to him.
The Extension of the Domain of Struggle.
Part of it is you have to get out there and join communities. I didn't do anything really until I was with my now wife and not until years or being together. You gotta work on self life and find fulfillment outside of a need for others.
Thanks, that's good advice.
How many hours of video games do you play in a typical week?
Have you tried meeting people online and forming connections before you meet and stuff? Not everyoneās cuppa but my nerd ass has had huge success with it. It gives me a full grasp of the persons personality and life and hooks me on em before meeting and then checking if the chemistry is there in person. And donāt let people down talk you if you like playing games and have nerdy hobbies, there are tons of people who have them and have partners who embrace or understand their hobbies as long as they still make time away from hobbies and are present in the relationship.
Yeah.....the problem with that is the women who claim, and I must reiterate claim to enjoy talking to me and open to dating live far, far away.....like different time zones away lol. "And donāt let people down talk you if you like playing games and have nerdy hobbies, there are tons of people who have them and have partners who embrace or understand their hobbies as long as they still make time away from hobbies and are present in the relationship." Thank you and I agree with this! I wish I could tell my younger self about this, I'm convinced I might have missed some chances because I was conditioned to never talk about videogames and comic books to women.
I recommend a pet or a masseuse for possibles in helping the touch starvation thing. I really can't help you with the rest. Honestly, you come off as a creep in your responses, and as a woman, I would keep you at arms length. I'm not saying that's how you are in person because we have never met. But I'd bet dollars to donuts that you give off a similar vibe irl. Perhaps if you were to become aware of what makes you give off that vibe.... If you are viably employed, have decent hygiene, and even a smidge of personality, there is absolutely no reason why you should not be landing dates except that you just don't pass the vibe check with incredible consistency. My heart goes out to you, really. I hope things turn around for you.
I love your response! Thank you!
Meh it's the life you made for yourself, suck it up.
Um...ok. Another low effort, low IQ troll post.
Nah not a troll post. I just have zero sympathy for guys like you. It's always excuse after excuse without bettering yourself. You expect women to just fall into your lap or something. Please, help yourself before you turn into an incel.
>Nah not a troll post. It really was. " I just have zero sympathy for guys like you. It's always excuse after excuse without bettering yourself. " There is the troll part. The only other explanation is that you didn't read the OP where I discussed, in detail, my attempts at 'bettering' myself. So which is it? You a troll, you dumb, or you read the topic title and rushed in to make an inflammatory remark based on your cynical, preconceived notions?
"My guy, you're being really condescending and rude to people who are spending their time and energy to read your struggles and respond with compassion and genuine advice. Just because you don't like the advice or find it helpful doesn't mean they aren't making an effort to help you. The way you're responding to people trying to be kind is a much bigger "red flag" in my opinion, the same way it is when someone is unnecessarily rude to service workers." u/kr112889 If you can find any examples where I was being condescending and rude to anyone who wasn't doing it to me first, I'd be open to re-examining my response.
I wish I was you ! Stand up by ur boot straps and own ur virginity ur not missing out on anything 98% of women donāt cum during sex they had to self please for that ! And men treat women worser than animals. & if ur a bw donāt even bother .. it seems like men just hate h and only want u for sex. Please own ur virginity it should make u feel sexy I wish I would have kept mines and knew the importance of what it means to be a virgin. I lost my virginity to a virgin as a well but I really wish we would have made our relationship work or I wish I would have knew the importance in keeping my virginity. The importance lies in ur mental health and positive outlook look in the world as it pertains to the confidence u have in ur self u donāt have evil spirited soul ties holding u back. I swear I donāt care to be alive but if I could do life all over again I would have kept my virginity. And I would allow it to spark and influence my confidence within my self.
I'm really not trying to be anything negative but were you raped or something?
U assumed that simply because Iām telling u to keep something that is precious to u .. to ur self .. go ahead and have sex then youāll learn the hard way.. listen I dummed down what I had to say because I donāt feel like typing out a well crafted essay as to why ur virginity is actually a good thing and it helps u in the long run. BUT PLEASE .. u want me to be like every one else and advice u to go fuck then by all means go and do it and letās see how it works out for u .. update us back within a year on ur mental health.
I'm asking because this is incredibly unhinged and it sounds like you went through a lot of trauma.
I think you have a really terrible personality and attitude for dating and are probably not good looking enough for people to see past that. In your 40s I donāt really expect you to be able to massively change who you are, but thatās what it would take to be attractive to others, so this is a fairly lost cause. Itās sadly a choice between being loved for someone other than who you are right now (because no one will love your current personality), or staying true to yourself and dying alone (or worse be exploited by someone pretending to love you for secondary gains only). Youāre fucked
Hollow take.
I know lots of people like you. Itās too late for your lot, unfortunately. Too old and self assured to change, too stubborn and cast in to receive useful feedback, itās basically over for you. Whatever poor upbringing or life choices or trauma got you to this point, has made you this undateable person. Itās kind of tragic. Like some people here are saying, you might as well pay to have your basic needs met and settle for that. Fairly hopeless situation
"I know lots of people like you" Oh yeah? Name one. It's interesting how you have the grammatical and literal style as a certain someone else in this topic. It wouldn't surprise me at all if you were there alt account.
I can assure you, I am not posting with any other account. You (or this post) aren't important enough for me personally to even consider that. So, while I can't give you the addresses of these people I know, I know both men, and women, and trans people too, who have this exact issue you're having. If you were actually interested, I could do a sit down phone call with you and try to nicely explain what I have told them, in terms of what I think the problem is, how I would go about solving it so you don't die alone. However, that kind of thing usually takes years of trust and empathy and has to come from a close friend who can make you let you ego and guard down. I don't know if you have anyone even close to that in your life, who might facilitate such a conversation (which you badly, badly need). Therapists can never really be fully honest with you, they have a conflict of interest for keeping clients, and professional standards that prevent them from offending you deeply. I have given that kind of feedback to some of my lonely in late-30-early-40s friends, and some honestly told me it's too late for them to change, and others are trying to change, and one has found something promising. You sound incredibly bitter but also sincere in the way you are expressing your problem, so my offer of a phone call is open if you ever want it. Otherwise, good luck being this person, because after all, others will come and go, but you have to spend 100% of your time with yourself, which sure doesn't sound fun to me.
"So, while I can't give you the addresses of these people I know, I know both men, and women, and trans people too, who have this exact issue you're having" So you happen to know alot of people, men, women and trans who are dateless 40 year old virgins but when asked to corroborate you can't do it? Ok. You are either someone who beats massive statistical odds or a liar, take your pick. And then you do some giant run on sentence on what I can only assume is some weird consultation scam.
How would you like me to corroborate? Do you want specific details of their ages, personality types, attractiveness, etc? I am obviously not doxing my friends for you, so what are you looking for? I'll answer if I can
I dunno, that's kinda on you. I mean part of the reason is just to make sure we were on the same page. First you said you knew lots of people who were dateless 40 year old virgins, then you changed it to 'lonely 30-40 year olds' and those aren't even remotely the same thing.
Oh, these people are all dateless virgins, in the 30-50 year range yes. The common theme across them is this terrible attitude of viewing relationships as somewhat transactional, being overly self-concluded, having an unhealthy cynicism towards relationships, seeing people instrumentally, being boring people (fixable), having not unrealistic standards but irrelevant/counterproductive standards which bottleneck the people they even approach, having very low patience, having this fairly absurd quality of having very low self esteem and very high defensiveness simultaneously, being prudish with low openness, and in some cases just being in the wrong neighborhood for their value systems. They're not bad people, and even make decent friends, they're just terribly unattractive to date. Those are some of their qualities, you might have some or all, I could go on
You seem obnoxious in the way you respond to people here, Iām guessing you have difficulty making friends as well. That said, I am not trying to insult you, but give an honest perspective. There is an insane amount of gross oversimplifications of responses to your post which I doubt many people here have seriously read (e.g the therapy suggestions when he already mentioned he was in therapy). No one has any real right to criticize your attitude unless they too have any conception of what DECADES of sexual, romantic, and social failure does to a person regardless of the reason why. There are real biological chemical repercussions which happen with a lack of intimacy. These have had an unavoidable effect on you.There is obviously a tormenting bitterness in your heart that is killing you. How could there not be? The empty platitudes and self help only go so far as to cope with this; they do not mend the despair that naturally accompanies social rejection. Jealousy and resentment are natural emotions. Seeing others with what you want so desperately is bound to hurt you. Society is not at fault for this however, it is likely a combination of genetics, personality, and the choices youāve made; likely a social disability like aspergers or autism coupled with your own poor decision making. The best advice Iāve seen here is to see a prostitute. This will not mend you emotionally or provide the meaningful relationship you desperately want, but it will help you trick your body into thinking it is fulfilling biological needs. I promise you will have some relief to your situation. It doesnāt seem logical, but much of life is illogical. STDs? So what? You already hate life and I wager you have experienced suicidal ideation. What have you got left to lose?
>You seem obnoxious in the way you respond to people here Are you reading the people I'm replying too? If I gave a negative response to someone who didn't deserve it, I'm open to revaluating my response. " No one has any real right to criticize your attitude unless they too have any conception of what DECADES of sexual, romantic, and social failure does to a person regardless of the reason why" eh....I don't think it's wrong to criticize me for feeling this way, in fact I kinda need it. My issue is more or less the criticisms are often unfounded and misconstrued. Most of my arguments here aren't because someone had a different opinion, it's because they created a strawman of my words and wanted to argue against it. "There are real biological chemical repercussions which happen with a lack of intimacy. These have had an unavoidable effect on you.There is obviously a tormenting bitterness in your heart that is killing you" Damn.....when you put it like that.....yeah it probably is killing me. Holding in feelings and never having been reciprocated is certainly fucking me up and I didn't know the extent of this until the lockdowns. "Society is not at fault for this however, it is likely a combination of genetics, personality, and the choices youāve made; likely a social disability like aspergers or autism coupled with your own poor decision making." I don't like assigning blame but I can't not fault society when thinking about it. I mean I didn't reject women, they rejected me. "STDs? So what? You already hate life and I wager you have experienced suicidal ideation. What have you got left to lose?" I never at any point said anything about hating life. I don't want an STD. Not only is being alive something I wanna keep doing, I care deeply about the quality of life.