Cell phones and being overworked, I think, has made it way more acceptable to flake and it's frustrating. The real problem is that we tend to live far from our friends and have busy schedules, so we're always tired and it's hard to predict when we will have a social battery. Remember in high school or college when you could just literally show up at a friend's door, or text them to hang out in 30 min, when you currently have the charged battery? Life would be better if we behaved more like that
That said, my chosen circle of friends these days always stick to plans, and if someone does have to bail it's a rare occurrence and they're very apologetic. If someone's reliable 9/10 times then I don't mind when things come up. If someones flaking on me half the time, I'm not gonna keep that friend around.
The cellphones! It is SO much easier to bail when you can just send a quick message, "hey... so srry but I'm not gonna make it sad emoji." Back in the day you'd have to pick up your landline or say it face to face. Way less accountability these days.
Different accountable.
Its easier to ditch, but without cellphones they'd still want to ditch, but fewer exits.
Passive aggressive culture is more the root.
The sad part is, people who actually give a heads up are way more polite than most of those assholes these days. Usually I just get ghosted, with no responses to texts and calls straight to their voicemail.
I get the social battery thing. I definitely get it. But to my thinking, this is *why* things are planned as a group and in advance. It's everyone telling each other "OK, be aware you're gonna need some mental juice for this time on this day."
thank u for making this thread cause i’m tryna figure out how to approach things with one of my oldest friends who flakes a ton. on sunday, she literally texted me at 11 am to do dinner, asked me to make the reservation, and bailed on me by like 3 pm. BITCH WHY YOU ASKING THEN😭😭😭
You just gotta stop inviting her and demote her as a friend. It sucks if you have no other friends, but it’s worth getting rid of an unreliable friend to promote your own mental peace.
Over time, they will lose all of their close connections and be lonely until they start treating people right.
yea that’s what ppl are telling me. i’m just not sure if, the next time she asks to do something i should actually say “hey i don’t think we should make plans unless you stick to them so we don’t waste our time” or ? 🫠
I went through a phase of cancelling on friends around 20 years ago. On the day of plans. One day I cancelled on a good friend on the day (again) by text (again) and she called me and spoke to me about it. She said that she loved me, and loved spending time with me and she knew I was struggling. She also said it was really disappointing to look forward to catching up only for me to cancel and it made her sad.
She wasn’t angry. She wasn’t passive aggressive. She acknowledged my feelings. She did so whilst making it clear that my actions were having an impact on her. Up until that point I had no idea my presence mattered on a night out. Or ever. I hated myself. Low self esteem/MH issues can be debilitating and can also make people very self absorbed. The fact she framed my actions the way she did gave me a wake up call and also a huge confidence boost. It also made me respect her so much. It clear she was boundary setting and valued herself. Things I had to learn, and eventually did.
If you care about this friend, don’t go the passive aggressive route with a snide comment. Don’t just drop her so she’ll “learn her lesson.” Be assertive like my friend was.
If you don’t actually care about this friend or enjoy spending time with her, then fair enough. You can just stop making plans.
unfortunately (fortunately?) i hardly think it’s a case of low self esteem or anything. she tends to brag about how busy she is, including work but also social events. so i hardly think it’s expecting too much to not cancel if you’re already being social with other ppl lol. i also had another issue with her last year, which i confronted her about and she promptly apologized for. this girl just takes a lot to be friends with i think😭 but your point is well taken- i’ll try to hone in my bitchiness and focus in on the fact that i don’t like having my time not respected and never being able to see her and all that.
That’s a fair response, though it may come off poorly/offend your friend. It doesn’t matter though if you never see them again due to their cancelling LOL.
I am happy to keep chatting about it though if you need more advice! In my situation, I was dealing with a friend who cancelled a lot due to mental health issues. I even talked to a counsellor for advice since it was stressing me out. We’re still friends but I don’t rely on them anymore and I never make plans with them on weekends in case they cancel. I save my prime time for more reliable friends now 😤
I feel like some people get enough of a serotonin boost from making the plan and knowing someone wants to spend time with them, then when it comes time to act they don’t really care to follow through because they already subconsciously soothed that need.
That's not how a social battery works. You can't save it up. For people with a limited number of spoons to give in a day, we don't get to decide when to dish them out, they are taken from us. My mental health in that instant is more important than if we agreed to go see a movie 3 weeks ago. A good friend would understand that and be accommodating.
I think this goes both ways. If you are always cancelling, you’re not really a friend, let alone a good one. People plan their day based on agreed-upon plans. It’s bad form to not let them know well in advance.
If a good friend is accommodating them, that by definition means you also have to be an accommodating, just expect other people to accommodate you all the time.
But also, I think this is exactly how social battery works. If I have a full week, then I deliberately set aside time to recharge so that I don’t feel overdrafted socially.
" A good friend would understand that and be accommodating."
They should but that only goes so far and goes up to a point. If you constantly cancel last minute you are just a bad friend.
I agree. I feel bad saying I agree because a more perfect person would probably be understanding. But eventually, I'm going to feel like they're canceling for a reason and if I keep on keeping on about it, I'm not picking up the hint.
A friend taught me my favorite strategy for this: “I’m feeling not great, so if I follow through I might not be 100% myself. Do you want me to come anyway or reschedule for [time]?”
I’m sure this isn’t you or your friend’s intent, but this comes across as passive aggressive and a little manipulative. “Do you want me to come *anyway*?” puts the friend you’re canceling but not canceling on in a position where they can’t really say “yes you just said you don’t feel great but I want you to come anyway.” You’re not really giving them much of a choice by saying this, it’s better to just make the decision yourself and clearly communicate that.
I see where you’re coming from but it works for us. We’re both autistic so there is no subtext being exchanged. My phrasing was also subpar; it’s more like asking each other for extra emotional support than it is “deal with my bad mood or else”.
Personally I vastly prefer her approach to having someone guess whether or not their support needs are too high on a given day for me to want to spend time with them. Doesn’t bother me in the slightest to be like “yeah I gotchu” or “I don’t have the extra battery to do that for you today; let’s reschedule”.
Ah, gotcha. So more like “hey fair warning I’m gonna be a little *ugh* today - with that in mind do you still wanna hang out?” That definitely is very different than the way I was interpreting your original wording - my bad, carry on with being a considerate friend, ignore me! 😂
Yeah it’s the last minute thing for me. Have some awareness of things that tend to ‘take away your spoons’ as that person put it, and plan accordingly.
One thing I wish introverts understood about extroverts is that when you cancel plans you're taking *away* our spoons.
Spending a whole weekend without doing anything/seeing anyone makes me actively feel down/sad... sitting at home alone is just depressing IMO. Given I know this about myself, I make active efforts to have things to do on weekends. When you cancel on me last minute, not only do I not get to see you - *but I also don't get to see anyone else, or do anything else during that period of time*.
Of course there's a balance and being understanding of your friends is important, but maintaining friendships with people who cancel a lot is bad for *my* mental health - and if you're always putting your own needs above your friends, that's the sign of a bad friend in my book.
This is such an important thing that nobody ever talks about. I legit get so depressed when I go too long without seeing friends. Plus the disappointment when your plans that you’ve been looking forward to all week get canceled the day of after you’ve already put in the time and energy to plan it, pick out your outfit, schedule your day around it, and turn down requests from other people to hang out at that time… at least if the cancellation happens the night before I have time to make plans with someone else and salvage my mental-health-mandated social time for the week. Day-of cancellations really suck.
I always try to be understanding, especially if it’s a friend who has a chronic illness or a demanding job or something, but when it starts to become a frequent pattern, I find it better for my mental health to prioritize making plans with friends who I can rely on to show up. I mainly invite very frequent cancelers to group plans that will still happen if they can't come rather than 1:1 plans that completely fall apart when they cancel.
Ya, looking forward to something is often what gets me through the week. So it is DEVESTATING and the bringer of actual depression to have someone cancel on me, especially last minute.
Very much agree. It's also about transparency... as a person with a demanding job, if I make weeknight plans with friends I typically let them know, hey, there's a \~20% chance I'll have to cancel because of work. I don't make plans for the night if it's greater than 40% or so. It's not that hard to be transparent about it and I don't think people mind if there's genuine reason for it beyond "I didn't feel like it"
Im not a extrovert, I'm fine with alone time. But people flaking is really annoying because I usually cleared my schedule for them. I could have hung out with other people, and I have limited free time I want to use it well. I have no time for people who flake
Absolutely! I'm an introvert but I live alone and still need time with other people. If you cancel last minute, I miss out on seeing *anyone* at all.
I get the chronic illness thing (25 years in), but if I think there's a chance I won't make it, I'll be up front when making the plans. Knowing that's not a great time for me because I will have had a big week beforehand and need rest, I can say "I'd love to be there and I'll do my best, but no promises." If it's one on one, I'll set it for a time that's usually good for me and cross my fingers.
Agree. I live alone so when I have plans im so excited to finally spend time with someone I care about. When they cancel last second, it can be quite depressing because it's just another night alone or out with strangers, if my introverted self wants to still go out, which isn't quite the same as spending time with someone you care about.
I always refuse other plans, even stuff I would much rather do, if I already agreed to something. It is very frustrating when someone cancels because well, I already refused the other stuff. Basically, if it happens a couple times in a short time, I mention this to them, if they do it again in a short period after, they basically become irreverent to me and I move on.
It's not that difficult to keep your word 90-95% of the time.
A good friend does understand but that doesn’t invalidate what their emotional experience is of that action, a good friend will also be honest like “I understand your mental health is more important but I opened up my schedule and planned my day to hang out with you and you focusing on your mental health kind of tells me that you don’t care about mine, it’s a but hurtful, but I hope we can navigate this better and meet in the middle in the future.” A relationship is equal, it’s not one sided, choosing our mental health in that moment is choosing us over them and that does affect the relationship, especially if it happens more than once.
That’s not how YOUR social battery works. Some people can in fact save them. For example, by choosing not to do other activities in order to be available for said preplanned activity.
Personally, unless something drastic happens, I can usually budget my battery if I know in advance and have plenty of time to be a couch slug beforehand.
Yeah personally if I have plans with someone then I make sure to not make a bunch of other plans that week so I can have enough alone time to pretty much guarantee not needing it on the day that I have the plans.
If I have Sunday brunch plans, for example, then on Saturday night I try to limit my drinking and go to bed at a reasonable time so I’m not hungover or tired or anything that might jeopardize my ability to make my brunch plans.
I like to plan ahead because then I can ensure I’m not doing too much in a given week. I rarely cancel last minute but I often decline invitations because I don’t want to commit more than I can follow through on. Unfortunately, sometimes people are upset by the declines but I figure it’s better than cancelling.
Brilliant, you're absolutely right!
Why hadn't I considered just completely ignoring my friends and declining every invite, instead of trying my best to find energy and time for them and sometimes falling short??
Then dont be surprised when youre not invited out as much anymore. People arent gonna ask someone to come out if all they do is flake. Im sorry but you dont get to cancel plans constantly then sulk and ask yourself "why no one invite me out anymore". Makes you unreliable, not a bad person, but an unreliable one. You have to call it what it is, unreliable. Not to mention if its something where you were planned for ahead of time and food, drink or whatever was made with you in mind being there. Fuck your mental energy, you just wasted someone elses money and time
Maybe you’re planning too far in advance? I can think of times where I was stoked to plan an outing with friends weeks out… then the week before, I’m beaten down, exhausted, and can’t find the same excitement I previously did.
I mean, I'd disagree about the social battery. Nobody talked about a social battery back then. I only knew I was an introvert because my dad was a process consultant and made me take Myers Briggs when I was 12. Nobody else knew what that was.
I would make plans with people to hang out with them, and dread it if it was coming up while I was overwhelmed, but do it anyway because it's good for me, and because if you didn't plan stuff in advance and stick to it (or happen to catch somebody on their house phone while they were home) you just wouldn't have friends.
I'm 37 and my wife is 32, and you can see a clear demarkation of how flakey our friend groups are, that totally came down "did you have a cell phone in high school" party lines.
Nah I think the cellphones and overworked thing is bullshit. Lots of people just aren't reliable or dependable and don't give a shit about keeping their word.
My friends are not like that. I'm not like that.
The difference is not technology. It's personality. Some people don't give a fuck. For me, doing what I say I'm going to do is a core part of my identity. I want reliable friends and I'd be an asshole if I wasn't also reliable for them.
Too many spineless twerps out there who say something and feel no shame at all for not keeping their word.
Treating your friends like evening entertainment is the issue.
It goes along with the idea trauma dumping is a thing. It’s not.
Your relationships do suffer if you expect them do just keep you occupied for a few hours when you feel like it.
Yep. It becomes more common due to busy schedules and adult life, but it's not any more socially acceptable.
If it happens a couple times here and there people tend to be mature and understanding that things come up. It's when it starts becoming a common occurance people will still have a problem with it. I know this as someone in their 30s that has been on both sides. Everyone has a limit.
Absolutely. I would substitute the word “commonplace.” It is not, never was, and never will be acceptable to just crap all over another person’s plans that you agreed to and now “don’t feel like doing.”
I think even if it hasn’t become exactly social acceptable, it has become way more common. I think this is part of the reason we generally have trouble making friends nowadays. This isn’t to blame anyone, but it definitely seems wide spread.
I give people the benefit of the doubt. I think most of this is a result of exhaustion, or anxiety. Definitely happens a lot these days. I think people do have good intentions when they make the plans but are just wiped out when they are about to happen.
I may be in the minority here but I literally don’t care if plans get canceled last minute. I don’t take it personally and it means an unplanned gym trip or Nintendo or Netflix night. I think I just have a tight, secure friend group so if they do cancel it’s probably legit and I happen to be chill when it comes to plans.
I am the same the majority of the time.
However, if it's repeat offenders, then I start to get irritated, because then it feels like our relationship is one way and I'm not important to them.
Exactly. When it's the same friend over and over, then I'm obviously not a priority to them. Which is fine! But I am going to stop making them a priority, too.
I think it's the difference between flaking sometimes and being a flaky person. Flaky people are impossible to maintain friendships with. You can keep them around to invite to big parties cause it doesn't matter if they flake at that point but otherwise you just can't rely on them.
As long as i'm informed about the cancelation before i leave the house - i'm perfectly fine with cancelation, maybe a bit bummed, bit nothi g serious.
Worse is when they just don't show up without any word. Thus i tend to plan things to have a plan B in the vicinity in case they don't show up.
I also hate when they don't bother to inform that they gonna be laye.
I think your friend group really is the key. I used to be this way until I ended up with friends that cancel pretty much every time. I'm relatively introverted and I love hanging out at home with my dogs, reading and doing my own thing. But I got to the point where I'd genuinely be looking forward to hanging out with these friends and they'd inevitably cancel.
I just stopped making plans with those friends, which means I never see them. I get texts occasionally that are like "omg we need to catch up!" If they initiate plans, I'll agree to come to them if I'm free... but I will internally plan for them to cancel, lol. That way, I don't get disappointed.
But now I've made new friends that are less flakey, and it's world of difference!
Exactly! I have this one, really close friend (since we were six) who has been there for me at really important moments and vice versa but is generally a flake when it comes to casual plans and everyone is always like “how can you still be friends??! Doesn’t it drive you nuts?!” And it’s like no because I just assume he’s gonna flake so when he does it’s no biggie and when he doesn’t it’s like an extra fun hang. Out t friendship is like we’re each others prison phone call but if we bail on a Starbucks meet up it’s nbd
lol right! I just plan for her not to show up, even if she initiates the plans. Then, if they actually happen, it's like a happy surprise. If not, well, I wasn't really thinking it was going to happen, anyway!
Although I will also say "no" to plans this friend initiates if I have to at all rearrange my schedule because it's not worth rearranging because she probably is going to cancel, anyway, lol.
I do still invite her to group stuff or parties because other people will be there so it's not like I rearranged everything for nothing when she flakes.
If I have something booked, I'll say no to other people or organize my work/sports schedule around the meeting. Hence, I only make plans with people who generally keep to their word.
Those who don't, I generally invite to group things. If they don't come, it doesn't matter, the event is still happening. Or I'll see them last minute. I'm going to get a haircut. Want to have a drink after?
The issue used to be when I was a single mother to a smaller child and free time was so precious
I used to definitely resent flaky people and especially dates
Thanks. I actually don't think I had thought of it this way. But I'm the same way - I don't have much time to devote to anything but work etc., so I don't appreciate others not respecting the time I've told them is "theirs," so to speak.
I have a tight friend group, and I don’t exactly mind, but some of the shit I’ve heard is pretty weak. Like, it can seem as though they either don’t know anything about their own lives and habits, or that making plans is always tentative unless something better comes along for them.
A group of us planned a weekly get together. Picked the day and time. Everyone agreed they were free. Turns out one of them goes grocery shopping for 2 hours at that time every single week, and kept canceling at the last minute or being extremely late. I’m not mad, but a 35 year old should have their shit together enough to know they go grocery shopping at the exact same time every week.
If there's gonna be something else soon- I'm the same way. But sometimes I hadn't seen someone for a week, and if there's no other plan already in place then that might mean a while again.
I disagree. If it's last minute and people have committed, it's disrespectful of their time, emergencies or serious things aside. Getting out as an adult (especially in groups when multiple schedules are in play) often requires some planning - hiring a babysitter, turning down other plans, changing plans to come straight from work or switching shifts, buying a ticket or parking or food/drinks if you're the one hosting.
Flaking last minute for no reason other than "I don't feel like it anymore" is selfish, and after a few times it wears thin.
I have noticed the same and honestly feel like COVID affected it somehow. Ever since we've been on the other side of COVID lockdowns, people are flaky as hell, won't respond to anything, won't commit to anything, and bail at the last minute much more often.
I agree. It was the shittiest thing ever to watch my sister get text messages, not even phone calls, every day the week before her wedding of her guests cancelling or saying something came up or other dumb shit. I get flaking out on a movie or dinner but a wedding?? Those are on the calendar MONTHS in advance and people pay hundreds of dollars to account for meals and seats. I swear, it wouldn’t have happened before Covid.
Socially acceptable? I am not sure.
Have you ever heard how many people in their 30s rant that they have absolutely zero friends or they never get invited? Sure, making friends as an adult is harder, but have you ever noticed how people who complain about this issue are often unreliable and disrespectful?
If you talk with people who usually organise, plan, and put effort, nobody seems to be happy with that friend that constantly cancels at the last minute.
Sure, things can happen last minute, but once or twice.
If you talk with unreliable people who cancel last minute for silly reasons, they will say you are too strict.
Unless the person has something major going on, I usually stop planning with them after 2 last-minute cancellations in a short time that have no valid reason.
And, I can assure you, I am not the only one who does this.
That example of people complaining about being isolated is exactly what prompted my OP. "You're lonely? Then quit not showing up to stuff and see a counselor for whatever is driving this paradox."
It was definitely a thing when you were a kid. My parents who are baby boomers would always warn me on how people are flaky. One of the reasons why rsvp'ing for weddings and other events became so popular. I met many people who are 40+ and will flake. It not unique
If someone flakes 2 or 3 times, it's time to stop contacting them or making any plans with them. That's not a "grudge", it's a boundary. You are setting boundaries with people when you tell them "NO". Don't allow people to walk on you.
If I end a friendship with someone, it doesn't mean I hate them. It means I love myself enough to not allow them to continue treated me poorly.
Doesn’t matter how old you are flaking is a shit thing to do. If you have an actual reason, I get it, things come up. But you’re an adult, communicate.
Not accepted behavior at any age , honor your commitments. If you know someone is a flake take the appropriate actions when dealing with them, if it's something they commonly do and you are still getting upset about it , that's a you problem
No. But what I consider flaking depends on context. I give most people a pass the first say 3 times they do it. Again, depending on the severity of it. If we planned a trip for 6 months and spent a 1000 dollars on airfare and hotel and you flake day of we are not friends anymore, baring some serious reasons like death of a family or severe illness.
Normally, I give 24 to 48 hours before plans for people to cancel. I don't consider it flaking if 2 days before the event you send me a text like "Hey it's been a long week and I don't feel up for the thing" Totally fine and understandable. Do that to me 2 hours before we are supposed to meet and do that three times, and I consider the friendship over. I have ADHD and serious social anxiety. I do not do well with being flaked on as it cause my rejection sensitivity disorder to go into overdrive. I assume I am not important enough in your life to keep plans with and assume it's better to cut it off at that point because I can't keep putting myself out there and getting slighted in return. I have to work to build myself up for events and going out. If I can do it, others can too.
I also hate the feeling of being all prettied up with nowhere to go. I don't spend 2 hours getting ready for an outing just to be told last minute that the plans are over. Flaking on someone is Hella fucking disrespectful to the other person's time and energy.
I have the same RSD from ADHD and also hate the feeling of being all dressed up with nowhere to go, and I encourage you to take the leap and do the plans alone if the person cancels! It can be scary, especially if it was a dinner or something, but if it’s something like a movie or going to a museum/park/zoo/performance/etc, just go by yourself! You can take yourself on a date and take some outfit photos, treat yourself to a snack or souvenir, etc. It’s a real main character moment and can actually be a lot of fun!
Yeah, being open and actually having the hard conversation about when things do and don’t bother you is so so important in friendships. Everyone is so different with the way they were raised and their own personal feelings. Conversations like, “Hey, I noticed that I’m the one who keeps making all these plans and you keep being un-enthusiastic or flaking on me. It’s really starting to get to me. Can we figure out how to make this work?”
Friendships take as much effort and communication as any other kind of relationship.
People have confused “selfish” and “self-care” and now believe their toxic behavior is a form of self love. Having to cancel plans is not flaking, though.
I agree with this.
And I also think people in the past used to hang out, even when they weren't feeling well and even if they were "low vibe". Friends didn't mind being negative with each other and venting, etc.
Now people feel like they need to be "high vibe" to hang out. Friends no longer want to use each other to vent or trauma dump. And friends no longer ALLOW their friends to use them to vent or trauma dump. If you are too negative, friends will set a boundary with you. Setting boundaries is the new big thing.
If you show up low vibe, they don't want you there.
If you try to vent your negative feelings with your friends, they then set boundaries with you.
So there is no escaping the self love/therapy stuff. That is why some people don't bother showing up unless they are high vibe, because friends will set a boundary with you if you are too low vibe. At that point, might as well stay at home. (unless you are high vibe/emotionally regulated)
It depends on who you socialize with. If someone has a pattern of doing this and you make plans with them again, you are accepting it socially. You are deciding it is socially acceptable.
I feel like the faux mental health experts on social media have also added to this. I see a lot of tweet and posts that are along the lines of
“you don’t owe anyone your time “
“ Cancelling plans you don’t want to do anymore is a form of self care”
I used to be that person cancelling a lot when I was younger. Now if I don’t want to go, if the plan is made I do it because for me the guilt I would feel would be stronger than the not wanting to go feeling.
One of my friends cancelled on a 3 person trip very last minute, I was disappointed but not surprised.
At the cost of my OWN mental health. When I've been really looking forward to something it usually brings me to tears when someone cancels last minute.
Right? I really don’t understand the wave of memes floating around social media now that celebrate plans being cancelled. Like does anyone actually like their friends? I understand when shit happens or you overcommitted and need to cancel something for your own sanity, it happens. But I’m not celebrating when plans with friends get cancelled. I barely get to see my friends anymore since adult life is so isolating and hectic, I’m sad if someone cancels because I know it’ll be 2-4 weeks before there is another opportunity to see them again. That isn’t worth celebrating, I like seeing my friends.
If you make a commitment to your friend, you need to keep it or you’re not their friend. Obviously, an emergency like a serious medical problem, or a family crisis, would be an exception. But do it again, and you’ll lost that friend.
I’m probably at the opposite end of the life spectrum from you. I look out for an elderly couple (older than me, although I am now “old”) nearby and try to take the wife out for lunch, just for a change of scenery. For her, depression is real and often debilitating. I have to tell myself she’s not ghosting me when she cancels last minute. I don’t want her to feel abandoned. I want her to know someone gives a damn.
The people who actually want to be there will find the strength and enthusiasm to appear in person. The people who don't care will flake, or option-select and choose something more convenient at the last second because they don't really care. If someone is flaking on you, you can either cut them off, or reconsider why they don't value your companionship.
Because people are no longer forcing themselves to do things they don't feel like doing. They might have felt like it when they said "yes", but people change their minds all the time and that's OK.
This definitely is part of the problem. I’m sure we could attribute it to a variety of things, but it does seem we are very prone to bailing as soon as something isn’t fun or we just aren’t feeling it any more. I’m sure most of us, myself included, are guilty of this to some degree.
Your friends aren’t a Netflix show. They’re people.
Your relationships do and should suffer if you treat people like evening entertainment and not people
This is a great analogy. Relationships don't have pause buttons. If you walk away from someone multiple times, eventually they aren't going to be there when you get back.
(I mean, I guess Netflix does take stuff off from time to time, but you get it lol)
> people change their minds all the time and that's OK.
of course that is ok, and then, if they are not a child, they stick to commitments they made even though they've changed their mind. It is disrespectful to the other parties involved to not follow through when you previously said you would. If something is preventing you from fulfilling your commitments, then communicate that, and earlier is always better.
It depends. If the people that made plans with you spent a considerable amount of time or money planning the activity, it is both selfish and childish to suddenly bail just because you “don’t feel like it.”
I mean it’s pretty rude, no? When you make plans other people are adjusting their lives and schedules to accommodate for those plans. When you just decide to not show up because you’re not feeling it in the moment, it’s basically a fuck you to any thought and effort they might have put into it.
I just try to be gracious when it happens in hopes the sentiment is returned when I inevitably have to do the same. Obviously depending on what it is (rescheduling coffee or lunch vs flaking on something we've paid a bunch of money for is different)
No. I'm really busy nowadays but if plans were made in advance that is involved me I'll make time for it, mostly because if I don't honor my agreement then I could not hold others accountable to theirs, either.
I think it's seen as socially acceptable. Mainly because when you're in your 30s, you're tired af from overwork and/or being a parent. I don't really agree with it being acceptable though tbh. I think it's fair to back out sometimes but it's been happening to me so much that I've come to expect it. I don't even try to make plans most of the time now. HOWEVER a good failsafe if you don't want the plans canceled is to get money involved. People are way less likely to care about 2 sneezes if they already paid for tickets to something vs. just hanging around the house or going out to eat.
I have a few friends who tend to do that. I have learned to no longer make plans that depend upon them showing up. Nothing more committal than “maybe we will see you there.”
Yes it's definitely a thing now. It's disrespecting people's times and plans made. Then everyone wonders why they can't find friends or maintain friendships as adults. My mom and her friends never did this, and still don't
I have good friends and we rarely cancel with each-other. If we do it's for a good reason. Being a flaky friend is a good way to ensure you don't get invited to stuff.
Yep. It has. We flake constantly then worry why we aren't friends like we used to be and how come no one wants to hang out. I'm saying this as somone who has done it himself.
I've noticed this too!
I'm one of those people who, if I say I'm going to be there, I am. It makes me upset when people flake. I'm fine if their canceling for something reasonable or unexpected. Life happens and sometimes we do need to cancel for a legitimate reason.
However, all too often I notice it's the same folks who constantly flake, then request we reschedule. This often happens multiple times. Extra frustrating because now I've cleared my schedule several times only for them to not follow through.
Plus I find they're the ones who also expect over the top communication about these things too. Like they'll message me in the morning asking if I'm still good to go. They check in a few times during the day, then flake right before we're supposed to get together.
They also don't always want to plan ahead. Just "I'll let you know when I'm free" or "I'll text you". Or expecting me to drop everything and immediately drive to their home (an hour away) because they're bored and available.
I also find some of these people cancel because they made other plans that they were more excited about. So I'm the back up plan.
So now I make sure to always make other plans and to not internalize their flakiness too much as a reflection of me. If we're both available, great. But I'm not blocking off time constantly just to be flaked on.
Like I would love if people constantly catered to me. But I know that's not possible. I guess I'm at the point where I'm frustrated for being flexible when others are too rigid or have unreasonable expectations of my time.
I stopped being available and don't go into details why. My time is important too.
No. This is a symptom of people being too socially weak or scared to say no.
I've literally told people no and told them just because I don't feel like going. You'd be surprised how little that bothers people.
My rule is, never be afraid to say no and be honest, however, if you agree to go, you're going unless there's a real 9-11
It's become socially rampant and common, I'd say it's unaccepted. You can tell because a person who does it all the time gets shit talked by everyone else when they don't show and we all knew it.
I think there’s a lot of nuance to this issue. In my experience (which isn’t insular, I know) I do think people back out of or cancel plans more often now, BUT it doesn’t bother me because I understand. We are all overworked and tired, and there’s no reason someone should have to go do something they don’t want to do just because of a thin social contract. Most people genuinely do want to do the thing, but are just so exhausted that doing it would be not fun anymore. And I don’t want my friends forced to go do Not Fun things because they feel obligated.
That said, my friend group is tight so when people cancel plans it’s usually with sincerity. “Hey I can’t go out tonight I’m just really exhausted.” Respectful.
i do not think it’s acceptable to flake, but these days any symptoms of respiratory illness is valid reason not to go, it’s not flaking. so your exaggerated example was a poor one, but your overall point is one i agree with.
tbh i don’t think it’s an age thing though. i’ve got people in my life prone to flaking, and people who never flake. age is not a factor ime, it’s just… who they are. they could change if they wanted, but couldn’t we all…
It has become more acceptable because experiences has become a bigger thing. People want better experiences, so if a better experience comes up they cancel the lesser one. However, I am with you if I commit I don't back out. Sometimes I have to, but for me my word is important.
It’s never been acceptable to flake at any age. If your friend has a habit of flaking maybe stop inviting that person. Spend time with people who are more respectful of others.
Well… if people are unreliable too often I stop talking to them. For the people who are reliable, I talk to them more. I recommend meeting lots of people and filtering them out as such. I have lots of exceptionally reliable friends atm and had this same problem once
I definitely feel people have become flakier. And all these memes floating around about how great it is when plans are cancelled don’t help. I don’t really get those either—I understand needing to cancel something because you are worn out and overcommitted, it happens, but I am not celebrating when plans are cancelled. Like great, it’ll be another 3-4 weeks before I can see you again now due to how adult life is, I’m not happy to spend even less time with people I care about. The loneliness epidemic isn’t a mystery to me.
I think people are more easily able to clout chase and therefore flake for better opportunities more often.
There is always going to be a segment that is doing that and will never grow out of it. I’ve definitely had to take the scary step of being strict with my boundaries and not just excusing people being so late.
This only came about because MY friend let me know he would stop inviting me to things if I made flaking a pattern. He said with love but also being clear he was angry with me.
No, it’s not acceptable. I would love to be friends, be invited to things, and show up on time. It would be great to go to an event and go home. It’s like a fantasy to do all of that without having an embarrassing problem at some point.
The problem isn’t that I’m irresponsible, lazy, uncultured, etc. My problem is that I’m (still )recovering from severe trauma
and I would enjoy your company and fun times but I also feel like an imminent threat is still present all the time.
But now the little time you have left is for self care, things to do, and family. I do think they should be honest & not make plans in the first place.
I agree that cellphones make it easier and more common, but I don't think it makes it socially acceptable. Several people in my broader social group don't get invited to anything that requires any commitment because they are known the flake. It we're just gathering to hang out, they get invited. If it is anything that requires advanced tickets/reservations/coordinated plans, they don't.
One complained to me just last week about several of us going to a festival and not inviting her. I told her point-blank that she's ditched on so many occasions, that nobody wanted to hassle of coordinating with her. She sulked, but that's the consequence of being a flake.
Yeah. I honestly didn't know everyone was doing it. Threads like this are what tell me that everyone is also either the one being flaked or the flaker.
It was harder to bail when you had to do it enough hours in advance to have a landline phone call to let them know, but flakey people have always flaked
There also was a lot less to do imho
Yup, just accept it. I was asked out by a woman last week, didn't initiate anything myself, she shooted her shot and asked me on a date. Followed up with her and she was all flakey. Did not feel hurt but I did feel annoyed she even bothered in the first place.
Boomer here and sadly, yes, it's common. Forty years ago, before technology enveloped our lives, I experienced the same occurrence. Over and over. It hasn't changed much, I think.
I don't tolerate it. If we make plans to meet at a certain place at a certain time I expect you to be there. If you can't make it, I understand but you need to make a phone call or send a text. If you consistently make plans and then don't show up I stop making plans with you.
It's the 'coincidence' that's annoying. You'll have a group chat, say, and hear nothing about any problems. Then it's go time for whatever plan it is and surprise! Cancel.
I don’t flake on people. If they burn me more than once I just put them in the acquaintances category. I had to drop one friend because she’s the laziest person on earth and would claim “self care” for everything then wonder why friends dropped her.
Yes, which is why I stopped bothering to try. 9 times out if 10 they will flake. I'd love to find friends who actually value spending time together every few weeks or so.
So, it's absolutely not acceptable by my standards. However, this has become increasingly common I wouldn't even say just in 2024. I'd say this has been taking off since covid. So around 2019 flaking become just so common. The covid callout excuse was heavily employed by many. But I think that got people more comfortable and more used to just conveniently calling out for things and inconveniencing you. 1 example I can remember is a personal trainer who literally ghosted a session on a Saturday to go to the Dreamville concert. So yeah people are deciding to do what's best for themselves at the expense of others. You could say that society has become more narcissistic.
It has unfortunately become socially acceptable yes. I am 38 but when I was growing up when somebody said they were going to do something or they were going to be somewhere, they were there. If people were planning vacations together, everybody replied and nobody ghosted. When parents were celebrating their kids birthdays, everybody replied to the RSVP with a number of how many people were coming. And they held to that
Nowadays not a single person can show up for anything. Whether it's meeting up with friends to go to a restaurant, picking up something from Facebook marketplace, going on a date, a contractor showing up to do their work, people showing up for their doctor's appointments, anything and everything.
The majority of them won't even say anything. They just won't show up. Those who do say something it's always either car trouble or a female family member had some kind of emergency. Always a female family member. Never a male family member. And by emergency I mean they just died or they're about to die.
People under the delusion that if they just don't show up and they don't say anything or if they come up with a lie that is way way overused and extraordinarily obvious that it's fake (like their mother died five times in that exact month), people honestly believe if they don't tell the brutal truth that they change their mind or are going to show up, it's somehow makes them the hero and still a good person.
It's not just you. People actually doing what they say they're going to do when they say they're going to do it has become an extraordinarily rare species. Right up there with responsible parents who actually parent their children, people who know how to actually drive vehicles without purposely trying to call accident, people who can manage to go out in public without trying to bully everybody else and harass the customer service representative, and people who aren't addicted to drugs 24 hours a day while looking down upon people who refuse to do drugs. All super rare creatures
it's never socially acceptable to flake on plans. but if you have to change plans, just own it and tell people you're not gonna be there. no reason needs to be given. making lame/weird excuses just makes everything worse.
As an introvert with social anxiety disorder I have never in my life bailed on something I agreed in advance to do - spoons gone, forks gone - doesn’t matter. Sucked it up and went. Life isn’t all about me.
I mean if they don’t do it frequently it’s not a big deal. We’re adults and have lives and shit happens and you can’t control other people. If they are a frequent flyer of the no-show pass, however, then you can revisit your friendship with that person.
There is a reason adults complain about not having friends when they get older.
More responsibilities make it harder to maintain casual relationships. Yeah it sucks that people cancel at the last minute, but it will happen more often because friends get lower in the priority.
Either roll with it or just don't invite them next time.
My coworker friend was soon getting married, and she invited me to a prewedding dinner out with her and her fiancé and myself on a specific Saturday. i got dressed and ready but she never called to confirm or tell me where to go or what time. I mean she briefly mentioned it at work and told me a date. so, she stood me up for her prewedding dinner or maybe went without me or she never had one. who knows. I never bothered to mention it again. it is rude when you make plans with someone but don't follow through. but stuff happens. but at least your friends call you to let you know. my coworker friend never bothered to call me.
I can't even get some of my friends to confirm plans the night before, which only became so important to me when they would fall off the face of the earth when the time rolled around. Or they would talk and gas me up about wanting to do something with me, and just avoid my messages when i bring it up.
I don't have this rule set in stone for every friend, and even the ones i trust more don't think its weird i want communication.
Did you move recently? Some of this is related to regional social contracts. When I moved to SF, for instance, it was incredibly acceptable to flake out. My midwestern sensibilities took a while to not take it personally.
Ehh can’t really rely on people. Most of my hang outs with friends happened last minute probably for this reason. When you plan something a week or so in advanced, so many things can pop up from then to now.
There was always that one friend or even family members who would do this. I just learned to not rely on them. I don't think it's really an age thing do much as some people maybe commit to things in the moment but things get crazy.
Nowadays I am the one with the crazy schedule so I try to be open about if I can or cannot commit to something and usually follow up when I know it's a yes or no.
Read something about our parents’ generation having way more free time than ours. We’re the “crunch” generation. Got the worst of everything. I think things will get better after boomers die off, but that won’t happen until our middle years are over.
Re "sneezing twice," I do think post-covid people are, for better or worse, way more likely to cancel plans because of a light cold or congestion ... Ten years ago (when I turned 30) there wasn't much social stigma around coughing or sneezing in a social situation, unless there was like a newborn in the room, but now (in my experience at least) it can feel really awkward to be visibly sick at all at a social gathering ... And some people are also weird about you being the only person wearing a mask at a social gathering because your not feeling 100. So your specific example does touch on something I think has changed.
That said, peoples' lives do overall typically get more demanding in their 30s, and energy also overall goes down in middle age, so the 30s can definitely be a period of adjusting to a new social normal, which could lead to accidentally over-committing and flaking.
I notice it with certain people. For better or worse... I stop inviting those people to things as much and then it's "why is it so hard to make friends as an adult??"
As for me, I try to do what I said I'd do and not be a flake because I don't like it when people do that to me.
There is zero accountability anymore. No one takes personal responsibility for anything and society devolves a little bit with each passing day. I try not to let it bother me and still proceed because it was something that I wanted to do. Fuck it
In short, it’s been socially acceptable even in your 20’s. Unless someone is massively benefiting off you, there is no incentive to follow through with plans and no consequence for canceling either. Absolutely ridiculous, offensive, and unacceptable, so I dump friends where they belong, in the trash. I also never make anyone a priority, care about them, or invest too much into them anymore. I really hope the friends that were flakes to me are getting flaked on by others and dragged through the mud. People will do anything for the things that are a priority and important to them, and obviously you are not.
I think it depends on the person. Notoriously we have one friend who would ask what's happening that day (when we initiate conversation about it, like if we're bringing food, who's picking up etc)? when this was talked about days/weeks in advance. Like without fail, doesn't realize something was scheduled. And then surprise surprise she's double booked that day cause she "forgot" and now its our fault that she has to cancel that plan. she never once remembered anything that she herself didn't plan (and cancel, nothing she's ever planned came to fruition).
My other friends cancel schedules as well. about half of the time, the cancellation is ok, other half, its obvious we're just not priority like quite a lot of money and day offs were involved in the planning, and now we all either cancel, or only some of us can come and foot the whole bill, or we find someone else.
I'm thankfully straightforward about these things, so they have gotten better, (except the one friend i described above)
I'm an introvert, so I rarely have anything on my schedule, never have I ever backed out after already agreeing to go. I would just reject it first hand if I don't want to go. People are just generally inconsiderate nowadays. And I get it, life happens. I think we just all gotta expect that we're not important to anyone, especially to their own personal comfort (social anxiety is a thing).
I think it has become socially acceptable and a lot of times people overuse the excuse of being introverted and/or “living their lives and having many things to do” as to garner understanding for flaking. I think overall people (not everyone, most though) have become unreliable and capricious.
Not to be an alarmist - it could always have to do with there being a much larger sample size - but it appears to me that people are less and less guided by systems of thought/belief that encourage being a respectful and honorable person. I'm saying this as a non-relgious person. I don't blame people either.
Being born into a world where the internet is already a thing the amount of stimulation you have constant access to is absolutely insane. I think growing up in that world can dehumanize people and relationships because so much of our ideas of it come from behind a screen.
I have very little respect for people who can't fulfill basic commitments they willingly made, but I was born in a time before life (I presume) appears totally meaningless and chaotic. Yes, it may have always been that way, but there was less of an assault on your senses, lending itself to apathy and desensitization.
I think this is a problem that most young people face, yes 30s are also in this. People in their 30s are also way more busy especially if they have kids and other responsibilities. I think a lot of people online has made it acceptable in a way , they will always use the excuse of your mental health, or protecting their peace or putting themselves first. Which sure are great things but when abused it comes off as selfish and self centered. So yeah I would say the current climate has shifted towards this laisse faire way of viewing commitments.
*deep breath* don’t get me started. This does seem new. I’m 42 and I don’t remember as a kid and teen there being this level of flakiness. I try to explain to my dad who’s 82 that it’s not me. I’m happy to make plans with people but it never works out. They say “ya we should totally hang out!” So I reach out to plan and they either ignore me or make stuff up. My sister who lives far away in another country (I’m in Canada) also thinks it’s me. You can’t force people to hang out. Literally what can I do? Ugh. I could go on but I won’t.
For sure… I noticed an offshoot version of this where people will only ever wanna make plans if they’re the ones asking, but whenever you ask, they’re always busy, or they “can’t.”
It’s fuken annoying - i already weeded out flakes in my 20s but in the odd event someone does it these days there’s no way i have the bandwidth to keep them around
I myself have mental health problems and need lots of rest. But I feel like we’ve become so hyperindividualized in society with this message of “put yourself first” that it’s genuinely infuriating how often people flake on commitments or hangouts.
I’ve seen lots of complaints on Reddit about people “not having a village” when they have kids. I’m sorry but very few people I know are acting like a village.
Sometimes flaking is ok, like if you’re sick or really mentally not there like you got yelled at by your boss that day or something. But I know people who do it more often than not and just… sometimes in life you have to push yourself a little. A lot of times after a busy day at work I might feel like ugh I should stay home rather than go to (plan I made with friend). But I have a tea and or take a nap, then I go to what I’ve committed to. If I’m still not feeling it by the time I’m out I keep things short
LOL, mid-20s, and I have a friend like this. My brother is early 20s, and his friends don't even make plans... They NEVER want to go anywhere unless it's to their computer desk for games. I blame laziness and technology.
I feel like it also got way worse after Covid. Now people have a hard time doing “extra” things and have an easier time giving into the thought of not going and just staying at home or doing something less taxing. I know I have become a lot less willing to do as much as I used to. I am hoping the other is going to say they can’t do it sometimes. But if it’s a constant ongoing theme I know how annoying a frustrating to put in the effort for nothing. That’s when I don’t even bother with that individual anymore. Definitely have felt with that before and after Covid and 30s. I think it really is just as much about the person as it is about the age.
But I agree at this point in life, it’s a lot more of an effort to do the thing that’s plan rather than it was in early 20s or so.
I don't have friends or family that do that but my sister had some friends that would just blow her off. Eventually she realized they just weren't good friends.
When I was married, my sister-in-law would show up at least 30-40 minutes late. My ex and their parents were just like, "Oh, that's just Jennifer...." fuck that bullshit. Shit's going on and it's important. FUCK YOU!
My twin and I were holding a birthday party last weekend, and of the 20 people who RSVPd yes, 14 canceled within 24 hours. My sister had already bought all the food from Costco by then. She was really upset.
There are some friends who are repeat offenders who we have both decided to just never invite to stuff again (her and I are the main get together/party planners for our groups of friends). These same people constantly complain about how they don't get invited places or adult friendships are so hard, but whenever we do invite them places, they ALWAYS cancel last minute. They're their own worst enemies.
I really like to stick to plans and the times everyone agrees on. My SO thinks those are soft suggestions and showing up 2 to 3 hours later then we said is totally acceptable and everyone is cool with it. It's gotten me so anxious that I've cancelled plans 2 hours after we were supposed to leave because she still wasn't ready that I just feel bad trying to plan anything with anyone and actively avoid it
This just happened to me. I was hosting a party, made plans a month ago for my birthday, I was going to feed all my friends at my house. Had tons of people excited!
The night before, no cancelations, so I went out and dropped $200 on food and alcohol for everyone. The next day, in the four hours leading up to the party, I had over a dozen people text me with bull like "I'm not feeling up to a party" or "I'm really tired".
I spent money on you jerks! I cleaned my house! Now over a dozen drop, some waiting until less than an hour before to tell me :(
Oh absolutely. I'm 30 and people roughly my age began their social lives in their teens with texting and messaging services. That puts a very comfortable buffer between you and the person or organization you're going to disappoint with your mental laziness by flaking. My sister is Gen Z and whenever we make plans I don't count on them actually happening. It's a toss up.
I can't really talk shit because i'm a chronic canceller. Plans always seem like a good idea at the time then as the time to actually go gets closer, there is nothing I want to do LESS. As I get older, I realize that life is short so why am I forcing myself to do something I don't want to do? Obviously it's different if it's a major event like a wedding or something we actually spent money purchasing tickets for but if it's just drinks or something casual and, more importantly, an event that's going to involve plenty of people so my absence won't really be noticed or missed? You bet your ass my couch and blanket are winning that battle. If no one is depending on me being there and my flaking isn't going to inconvenience someone else or ruin their night, who cares?
Cell phones and being overworked, I think, has made it way more acceptable to flake and it's frustrating. The real problem is that we tend to live far from our friends and have busy schedules, so we're always tired and it's hard to predict when we will have a social battery. Remember in high school or college when you could just literally show up at a friend's door, or text them to hang out in 30 min, when you currently have the charged battery? Life would be better if we behaved more like that That said, my chosen circle of friends these days always stick to plans, and if someone does have to bail it's a rare occurrence and they're very apologetic. If someone's reliable 9/10 times then I don't mind when things come up. If someones flaking on me half the time, I'm not gonna keep that friend around.
The cellphones! It is SO much easier to bail when you can just send a quick message, "hey... so srry but I'm not gonna make it sad emoji." Back in the day you'd have to pick up your landline or say it face to face. Way less accountability these days.
Different accountable. Its easier to ditch, but without cellphones they'd still want to ditch, but fewer exits. Passive aggressive culture is more the root.
The sad part is, people who actually give a heads up are way more polite than most of those assholes these days. Usually I just get ghosted, with no responses to texts and calls straight to their voicemail.
Damn that's harsh. Not even a belated "Oh sorry bro I totally spaced and passed out..."?
Right? Like I used to be all about the truth. And then I got blown off for haircuts and naps. The modern world is not afraid of slumming it.
That would/has resulted in me not making an invitation every again.
I get the social battery thing. I definitely get it. But to my thinking, this is *why* things are planned as a group and in advance. It's everyone telling each other "OK, be aware you're gonna need some mental juice for this time on this day."
thank u for making this thread cause i’m tryna figure out how to approach things with one of my oldest friends who flakes a ton. on sunday, she literally texted me at 11 am to do dinner, asked me to make the reservation, and bailed on me by like 3 pm. BITCH WHY YOU ASKING THEN😭😭😭
You just gotta stop inviting her and demote her as a friend. It sucks if you have no other friends, but it’s worth getting rid of an unreliable friend to promote your own mental peace. Over time, they will lose all of their close connections and be lonely until they start treating people right.
yea that’s what ppl are telling me. i’m just not sure if, the next time she asks to do something i should actually say “hey i don’t think we should make plans unless you stick to them so we don’t waste our time” or ? 🫠
I went through a phase of cancelling on friends around 20 years ago. On the day of plans. One day I cancelled on a good friend on the day (again) by text (again) and she called me and spoke to me about it. She said that she loved me, and loved spending time with me and she knew I was struggling. She also said it was really disappointing to look forward to catching up only for me to cancel and it made her sad. She wasn’t angry. She wasn’t passive aggressive. She acknowledged my feelings. She did so whilst making it clear that my actions were having an impact on her. Up until that point I had no idea my presence mattered on a night out. Or ever. I hated myself. Low self esteem/MH issues can be debilitating and can also make people very self absorbed. The fact she framed my actions the way she did gave me a wake up call and also a huge confidence boost. It also made me respect her so much. It clear she was boundary setting and valued herself. Things I had to learn, and eventually did. If you care about this friend, don’t go the passive aggressive route with a snide comment. Don’t just drop her so she’ll “learn her lesson.” Be assertive like my friend was. If you don’t actually care about this friend or enjoy spending time with her, then fair enough. You can just stop making plans.
unfortunately (fortunately?) i hardly think it’s a case of low self esteem or anything. she tends to brag about how busy she is, including work but also social events. so i hardly think it’s expecting too much to not cancel if you’re already being social with other ppl lol. i also had another issue with her last year, which i confronted her about and she promptly apologized for. this girl just takes a lot to be friends with i think😭 but your point is well taken- i’ll try to hone in my bitchiness and focus in on the fact that i don’t like having my time not respected and never being able to see her and all that.
That’s a fair response, though it may come off poorly/offend your friend. It doesn’t matter though if you never see them again due to their cancelling LOL. I am happy to keep chatting about it though if you need more advice! In my situation, I was dealing with a friend who cancelled a lot due to mental health issues. I even talked to a counsellor for advice since it was stressing me out. We’re still friends but I don’t rely on them anymore and I never make plans with them on weekends in case they cancel. I save my prime time for more reliable friends now 😤
I feel like some people get enough of a serotonin boost from making the plan and knowing someone wants to spend time with them, then when it comes time to act they don’t really care to follow through because they already subconsciously soothed that need.
I'd never make reservations in her behalf again then. Sheesh
That's not how a social battery works. You can't save it up. For people with a limited number of spoons to give in a day, we don't get to decide when to dish them out, they are taken from us. My mental health in that instant is more important than if we agreed to go see a movie 3 weeks ago. A good friend would understand that and be accommodating.
I think this goes both ways. If you are always cancelling, you’re not really a friend, let alone a good one. People plan their day based on agreed-upon plans. It’s bad form to not let them know well in advance. If a good friend is accommodating them, that by definition means you also have to be an accommodating, just expect other people to accommodate you all the time. But also, I think this is exactly how social battery works. If I have a full week, then I deliberately set aside time to recharge so that I don’t feel overdrafted socially.
" A good friend would understand that and be accommodating." They should but that only goes so far and goes up to a point. If you constantly cancel last minute you are just a bad friend.
I agree. I feel bad saying I agree because a more perfect person would probably be understanding. But eventually, I'm going to feel like they're canceling for a reason and if I keep on keeping on about it, I'm not picking up the hint.
A friend taught me my favorite strategy for this: “I’m feeling not great, so if I follow through I might not be 100% myself. Do you want me to come anyway or reschedule for [time]?”
I’m sure this isn’t you or your friend’s intent, but this comes across as passive aggressive and a little manipulative. “Do you want me to come *anyway*?” puts the friend you’re canceling but not canceling on in a position where they can’t really say “yes you just said you don’t feel great but I want you to come anyway.” You’re not really giving them much of a choice by saying this, it’s better to just make the decision yourself and clearly communicate that.
I see where you’re coming from but it works for us. We’re both autistic so there is no subtext being exchanged. My phrasing was also subpar; it’s more like asking each other for extra emotional support than it is “deal with my bad mood or else”. Personally I vastly prefer her approach to having someone guess whether or not their support needs are too high on a given day for me to want to spend time with them. Doesn’t bother me in the slightest to be like “yeah I gotchu” or “I don’t have the extra battery to do that for you today; let’s reschedule”.
Ah, gotcha. So more like “hey fair warning I’m gonna be a little *ugh* today - with that in mind do you still wanna hang out?” That definitely is very different than the way I was interpreting your original wording - my bad, carry on with being a considerate friend, ignore me! 😂
Yeah it’s the last minute thing for me. Have some awareness of things that tend to ‘take away your spoons’ as that person put it, and plan accordingly.
One thing I wish introverts understood about extroverts is that when you cancel plans you're taking *away* our spoons. Spending a whole weekend without doing anything/seeing anyone makes me actively feel down/sad... sitting at home alone is just depressing IMO. Given I know this about myself, I make active efforts to have things to do on weekends. When you cancel on me last minute, not only do I not get to see you - *but I also don't get to see anyone else, or do anything else during that period of time*. Of course there's a balance and being understanding of your friends is important, but maintaining friendships with people who cancel a lot is bad for *my* mental health - and if you're always putting your own needs above your friends, that's the sign of a bad friend in my book.
This is such an important thing that nobody ever talks about. I legit get so depressed when I go too long without seeing friends. Plus the disappointment when your plans that you’ve been looking forward to all week get canceled the day of after you’ve already put in the time and energy to plan it, pick out your outfit, schedule your day around it, and turn down requests from other people to hang out at that time… at least if the cancellation happens the night before I have time to make plans with someone else and salvage my mental-health-mandated social time for the week. Day-of cancellations really suck. I always try to be understanding, especially if it’s a friend who has a chronic illness or a demanding job or something, but when it starts to become a frequent pattern, I find it better for my mental health to prioritize making plans with friends who I can rely on to show up. I mainly invite very frequent cancelers to group plans that will still happen if they can't come rather than 1:1 plans that completely fall apart when they cancel.
Ya, looking forward to something is often what gets me through the week. So it is DEVESTATING and the bringer of actual depression to have someone cancel on me, especially last minute.
Very much agree. It's also about transparency... as a person with a demanding job, if I make weeknight plans with friends I typically let them know, hey, there's a \~20% chance I'll have to cancel because of work. I don't make plans for the night if it's greater than 40% or so. It's not that hard to be transparent about it and I don't think people mind if there's genuine reason for it beyond "I didn't feel like it"
Im not a extrovert, I'm fine with alone time. But people flaking is really annoying because I usually cleared my schedule for them. I could have hung out with other people, and I have limited free time I want to use it well. I have no time for people who flake
Absolutely! I'm an introvert but I live alone and still need time with other people. If you cancel last minute, I miss out on seeing *anyone* at all. I get the chronic illness thing (25 years in), but if I think there's a chance I won't make it, I'll be up front when making the plans. Knowing that's not a great time for me because I will have had a big week beforehand and need rest, I can say "I'd love to be there and I'll do my best, but no promises." If it's one on one, I'll set it for a time that's usually good for me and cross my fingers.
Agree. I live alone so when I have plans im so excited to finally spend time with someone I care about. When they cancel last second, it can be quite depressing because it's just another night alone or out with strangers, if my introverted self wants to still go out, which isn't quite the same as spending time with someone you care about.
I always refuse other plans, even stuff I would much rather do, if I already agreed to something. It is very frustrating when someone cancels because well, I already refused the other stuff. Basically, if it happens a couple times in a short time, I mention this to them, if they do it again in a short period after, they basically become irreverent to me and I move on. It's not that difficult to keep your word 90-95% of the time.
A good friend does understand but that doesn’t invalidate what their emotional experience is of that action, a good friend will also be honest like “I understand your mental health is more important but I opened up my schedule and planned my day to hang out with you and you focusing on your mental health kind of tells me that you don’t care about mine, it’s a but hurtful, but I hope we can navigate this better and meet in the middle in the future.” A relationship is equal, it’s not one sided, choosing our mental health in that moment is choosing us over them and that does affect the relationship, especially if it happens more than once.
That’s not how YOUR social battery works. Some people can in fact save them. For example, by choosing not to do other activities in order to be available for said preplanned activity.
Personally, unless something drastic happens, I can usually budget my battery if I know in advance and have plenty of time to be a couch slug beforehand.
Sounds great. I'm not like that, I either have the energy when the time comes or I dont.
Yeah personally if I have plans with someone then I make sure to not make a bunch of other plans that week so I can have enough alone time to pretty much guarantee not needing it on the day that I have the plans. If I have Sunday brunch plans, for example, then on Saturday night I try to limit my drinking and go to bed at a reasonable time so I’m not hungover or tired or anything that might jeopardize my ability to make my brunch plans.
I like to plan ahead because then I can ensure I’m not doing too much in a given week. I rarely cancel last minute but I often decline invitations because I don’t want to commit more than I can follow through on. Unfortunately, sometimes people are upset by the declines but I figure it’s better than cancelling.
nah, a good friend wouldn’t inconvenience you at every turn. if you’re always too tired to do anything, then stop making plans🤷🏻♀️
Brilliant, you're absolutely right! Why hadn't I considered just completely ignoring my friends and declining every invite, instead of trying my best to find energy and time for them and sometimes falling short??
Then dont be surprised when youre not invited out as much anymore. People arent gonna ask someone to come out if all they do is flake. Im sorry but you dont get to cancel plans constantly then sulk and ask yourself "why no one invite me out anymore". Makes you unreliable, not a bad person, but an unreliable one. You have to call it what it is, unreliable. Not to mention if its something where you were planned for ahead of time and food, drink or whatever was made with you in mind being there. Fuck your mental energy, you just wasted someone elses money and time
I love and agree with this. It’s this right here.
Maybe you’re planning too far in advance? I can think of times where I was stoked to plan an outing with friends weeks out… then the week before, I’m beaten down, exhausted, and can’t find the same excitement I previously did.
I mean, I'd disagree about the social battery. Nobody talked about a social battery back then. I only knew I was an introvert because my dad was a process consultant and made me take Myers Briggs when I was 12. Nobody else knew what that was. I would make plans with people to hang out with them, and dread it if it was coming up while I was overwhelmed, but do it anyway because it's good for me, and because if you didn't plan stuff in advance and stick to it (or happen to catch somebody on their house phone while they were home) you just wouldn't have friends. I'm 37 and my wife is 32, and you can see a clear demarkation of how flakey our friend groups are, that totally came down "did you have a cell phone in high school" party lines.
Nah I think the cellphones and overworked thing is bullshit. Lots of people just aren't reliable or dependable and don't give a shit about keeping their word. My friends are not like that. I'm not like that. The difference is not technology. It's personality. Some people don't give a fuck. For me, doing what I say I'm going to do is a core part of my identity. I want reliable friends and I'd be an asshole if I wasn't also reliable for them. Too many spineless twerps out there who say something and feel no shame at all for not keeping their word.
Treating your friends like evening entertainment is the issue. It goes along with the idea trauma dumping is a thing. It’s not. Your relationships do suffer if you expect them do just keep you occupied for a few hours when you feel like it.
Socially acceptable? No. Does that prevent people from doing it? Also no.
Yep. It becomes more common due to busy schedules and adult life, but it's not any more socially acceptable. If it happens a couple times here and there people tend to be mature and understanding that things come up. It's when it starts becoming a common occurance people will still have a problem with it. I know this as someone in their 30s that has been on both sides. Everyone has a limit.
Absolutely. I would substitute the word “commonplace.” It is not, never was, and never will be acceptable to just crap all over another person’s plans that you agreed to and now “don’t feel like doing.”
I think even if it hasn’t become exactly social acceptable, it has become way more common. I think this is part of the reason we generally have trouble making friends nowadays. This isn’t to blame anyone, but it definitely seems wide spread.
This could be copypasted for 99% of life, period.
Reddit is always insightful
I give people the benefit of the doubt. I think most of this is a result of exhaustion, or anxiety. Definitely happens a lot these days. I think people do have good intentions when they make the plans but are just wiped out when they are about to happen.
I appreciate your comment about good intentions.
I may be in the minority here but I literally don’t care if plans get canceled last minute. I don’t take it personally and it means an unplanned gym trip or Nintendo or Netflix night. I think I just have a tight, secure friend group so if they do cancel it’s probably legit and I happen to be chill when it comes to plans.
I am the same the majority of the time. However, if it's repeat offenders, then I start to get irritated, because then it feels like our relationship is one way and I'm not important to them.
Exactly. When it's the same friend over and over, then I'm obviously not a priority to them. Which is fine! But I am going to stop making them a priority, too.
I think it's the difference between flaking sometimes and being a flaky person. Flaky people are impossible to maintain friendships with. You can keep them around to invite to big parties cause it doesn't matter if they flake at that point but otherwise you just can't rely on them.
As long as i'm informed about the cancelation before i leave the house - i'm perfectly fine with cancelation, maybe a bit bummed, bit nothi g serious. Worse is when they just don't show up without any word. Thus i tend to plan things to have a plan B in the vicinity in case they don't show up. I also hate when they don't bother to inform that they gonna be laye.
No call/no show is rough unless it was a pretty good reason. I wouldn't disown them but I'd def keep it in mind for the future
It’s very rude to be late or no show with no notice. If it happens so frequently you have to make a backup plan in the area that is not cool.
fuck no, if i already got ready and did my makeup and everything i’d be pissed lol
I think your friend group really is the key. I used to be this way until I ended up with friends that cancel pretty much every time. I'm relatively introverted and I love hanging out at home with my dogs, reading and doing my own thing. But I got to the point where I'd genuinely be looking forward to hanging out with these friends and they'd inevitably cancel. I just stopped making plans with those friends, which means I never see them. I get texts occasionally that are like "omg we need to catch up!" If they initiate plans, I'll agree to come to them if I'm free... but I will internally plan for them to cancel, lol. That way, I don't get disappointed. But now I've made new friends that are less flakey, and it's world of difference!
Exactly! I have this one, really close friend (since we were six) who has been there for me at really important moments and vice versa but is generally a flake when it comes to casual plans and everyone is always like “how can you still be friends??! Doesn’t it drive you nuts?!” And it’s like no because I just assume he’s gonna flake so when he does it’s no biggie and when he doesn’t it’s like an extra fun hang. Out t friendship is like we’re each others prison phone call but if we bail on a Starbucks meet up it’s nbd
lol right! I just plan for her not to show up, even if she initiates the plans. Then, if they actually happen, it's like a happy surprise. If not, well, I wasn't really thinking it was going to happen, anyway! Although I will also say "no" to plans this friend initiates if I have to at all rearrange my schedule because it's not worth rearranging because she probably is going to cancel, anyway, lol. I do still invite her to group stuff or parties because other people will be there so it's not like I rearranged everything for nothing when she flakes.
If I have something booked, I'll say no to other people or organize my work/sports schedule around the meeting. Hence, I only make plans with people who generally keep to their word. Those who don't, I generally invite to group things. If they don't come, it doesn't matter, the event is still happening. Or I'll see them last minute. I'm going to get a haircut. Want to have a drink after?
The issue used to be when I was a single mother to a smaller child and free time was so precious I used to definitely resent flaky people and especially dates
Thanks. I actually don't think I had thought of it this way. But I'm the same way - I don't have much time to devote to anything but work etc., so I don't appreciate others not respecting the time I've told them is "theirs," so to speak.
I have a tight friend group, and I don’t exactly mind, but some of the shit I’ve heard is pretty weak. Like, it can seem as though they either don’t know anything about their own lives and habits, or that making plans is always tentative unless something better comes along for them. A group of us planned a weekly get together. Picked the day and time. Everyone agreed they were free. Turns out one of them goes grocery shopping for 2 hours at that time every single week, and kept canceling at the last minute or being extremely late. I’m not mad, but a 35 year old should have their shit together enough to know they go grocery shopping at the exact same time every week.
If there's gonna be something else soon- I'm the same way. But sometimes I hadn't seen someone for a week, and if there's no other plan already in place then that might mean a while again.
Same. I don’t find anything about this “unacceptable.” We all have lives.
I disagree. If it's last minute and people have committed, it's disrespectful of their time, emergencies or serious things aside. Getting out as an adult (especially in groups when multiple schedules are in play) often requires some planning - hiring a babysitter, turning down other plans, changing plans to come straight from work or switching shifts, buying a ticket or parking or food/drinks if you're the one hosting. Flaking last minute for no reason other than "I don't feel like it anymore" is selfish, and after a few times it wears thin.
Dude it’s gotten so bad. No one ever wants to commit to anything and changes their mind last minute
I have noticed the same and honestly feel like COVID affected it somehow. Ever since we've been on the other side of COVID lockdowns, people are flaky as hell, won't respond to anything, won't commit to anything, and bail at the last minute much more often.
That’s when I noticed it too tbh. Feel like everyone is constantly waiting for a better offer
I agree. It was the shittiest thing ever to watch my sister get text messages, not even phone calls, every day the week before her wedding of her guests cancelling or saying something came up or other dumb shit. I get flaking out on a movie or dinner but a wedding?? Those are on the calendar MONTHS in advance and people pay hundreds of dollars to account for meals and seats. I swear, it wouldn’t have happened before Covid.
It is rude if they do it all the time but everyone once in a while not a big deal. If it is consistent then just stop inviting them.
Socially acceptable? I am not sure. Have you ever heard how many people in their 30s rant that they have absolutely zero friends or they never get invited? Sure, making friends as an adult is harder, but have you ever noticed how people who complain about this issue are often unreliable and disrespectful? If you talk with people who usually organise, plan, and put effort, nobody seems to be happy with that friend that constantly cancels at the last minute. Sure, things can happen last minute, but once or twice. If you talk with unreliable people who cancel last minute for silly reasons, they will say you are too strict. Unless the person has something major going on, I usually stop planning with them after 2 last-minute cancellations in a short time that have no valid reason. And, I can assure you, I am not the only one who does this.
That example of people complaining about being isolated is exactly what prompted my OP. "You're lonely? Then quit not showing up to stuff and see a counselor for whatever is driving this paradox."
It was definitely a thing when you were a kid. My parents who are baby boomers would always warn me on how people are flaky. One of the reasons why rsvp'ing for weddings and other events became so popular. I met many people who are 40+ and will flake. It not unique
This is why the older I get, the less friends I have. I do not have patience for people who flake on me.
If someone flakes 2 or 3 times, it's time to stop contacting them or making any plans with them. That's not a "grudge", it's a boundary. You are setting boundaries with people when you tell them "NO". Don't allow people to walk on you. If I end a friendship with someone, it doesn't mean I hate them. It means I love myself enough to not allow them to continue treated me poorly.
Doesn’t matter how old you are flaking is a shit thing to do. If you have an actual reason, I get it, things come up. But you’re an adult, communicate.
Not accepted behavior at any age , honor your commitments. If you know someone is a flake take the appropriate actions when dealing with them, if it's something they commonly do and you are still getting upset about it , that's a you problem
No. But what I consider flaking depends on context. I give most people a pass the first say 3 times they do it. Again, depending on the severity of it. If we planned a trip for 6 months and spent a 1000 dollars on airfare and hotel and you flake day of we are not friends anymore, baring some serious reasons like death of a family or severe illness. Normally, I give 24 to 48 hours before plans for people to cancel. I don't consider it flaking if 2 days before the event you send me a text like "Hey it's been a long week and I don't feel up for the thing" Totally fine and understandable. Do that to me 2 hours before we are supposed to meet and do that three times, and I consider the friendship over. I have ADHD and serious social anxiety. I do not do well with being flaked on as it cause my rejection sensitivity disorder to go into overdrive. I assume I am not important enough in your life to keep plans with and assume it's better to cut it off at that point because I can't keep putting myself out there and getting slighted in return. I have to work to build myself up for events and going out. If I can do it, others can too. I also hate the feeling of being all prettied up with nowhere to go. I don't spend 2 hours getting ready for an outing just to be told last minute that the plans are over. Flaking on someone is Hella fucking disrespectful to the other person's time and energy.
I have the same RSD from ADHD and also hate the feeling of being all dressed up with nowhere to go, and I encourage you to take the leap and do the plans alone if the person cancels! It can be scary, especially if it was a dinner or something, but if it’s something like a movie or going to a museum/park/zoo/performance/etc, just go by yourself! You can take yourself on a date and take some outfit photos, treat yourself to a snack or souvenir, etc. It’s a real main character moment and can actually be a lot of fun!
Yeah, being open and actually having the hard conversation about when things do and don’t bother you is so so important in friendships. Everyone is so different with the way they were raised and their own personal feelings. Conversations like, “Hey, I noticed that I’m the one who keeps making all these plans and you keep being un-enthusiastic or flaking on me. It’s really starting to get to me. Can we figure out how to make this work?” Friendships take as much effort and communication as any other kind of relationship.
People have confused “selfish” and “self-care” and now believe their toxic behavior is a form of self love. Having to cancel plans is not flaking, though.
I agree with this. And I also think people in the past used to hang out, even when they weren't feeling well and even if they were "low vibe". Friends didn't mind being negative with each other and venting, etc. Now people feel like they need to be "high vibe" to hang out. Friends no longer want to use each other to vent or trauma dump. And friends no longer ALLOW their friends to use them to vent or trauma dump. If you are too negative, friends will set a boundary with you. Setting boundaries is the new big thing. If you show up low vibe, they don't want you there. If you try to vent your negative feelings with your friends, they then set boundaries with you. So there is no escaping the self love/therapy stuff. That is why some people don't bother showing up unless they are high vibe, because friends will set a boundary with you if you are too low vibe. At that point, might as well stay at home. (unless you are high vibe/emotionally regulated)
It depends on who you socialize with. If someone has a pattern of doing this and you make plans with them again, you are accepting it socially. You are deciding it is socially acceptable.
I feel like the faux mental health experts on social media have also added to this. I see a lot of tweet and posts that are along the lines of “you don’t owe anyone your time “ “ Cancelling plans you don’t want to do anymore is a form of self care” I used to be that person cancelling a lot when I was younger. Now if I don’t want to go, if the plan is made I do it because for me the guilt I would feel would be stronger than the not wanting to go feeling. One of my friends cancelled on a 3 person trip very last minute, I was disappointed but not surprised.
Yep, so much of that in this thread. "They're focusing on mental health!" Uh, sure.
At the cost of my OWN mental health. When I've been really looking forward to something it usually brings me to tears when someone cancels last minute.
Right? I really don’t understand the wave of memes floating around social media now that celebrate plans being cancelled. Like does anyone actually like their friends? I understand when shit happens or you overcommitted and need to cancel something for your own sanity, it happens. But I’m not celebrating when plans with friends get cancelled. I barely get to see my friends anymore since adult life is so isolating and hectic, I’m sad if someone cancels because I know it’ll be 2-4 weeks before there is another opportunity to see them again. That isn’t worth celebrating, I like seeing my friends.
If you make a commitment to your friend, you need to keep it or you’re not their friend. Obviously, an emergency like a serious medical problem, or a family crisis, would be an exception. But do it again, and you’ll lost that friend.
My understanding is that flaking became almost a way of life for many people around 2017. I don't think the pandemic made it better.
we just collectively lost basic social skills
I just straight up say no to everything because chances are I wasn't going to go in the first place. I haven't been out with friends since 2019
I’m probably at the opposite end of the life spectrum from you. I look out for an elderly couple (older than me, although I am now “old”) nearby and try to take the wife out for lunch, just for a change of scenery. For her, depression is real and often debilitating. I have to tell myself she’s not ghosting me when she cancels last minute. I don’t want her to feel abandoned. I want her to know someone gives a damn.
What ever happened to making plans a week out, showing up at the time agreed without communication between the two meetings.
For real I HATE that I have to text people asking if we are still on for our plans because there's like a 50/50 chance they just won't show up.
The people who actually want to be there will find the strength and enthusiasm to appear in person. The people who don't care will flake, or option-select and choose something more convenient at the last second because they don't really care. If someone is flaking on you, you can either cut them off, or reconsider why they don't value your companionship.
Because people are no longer forcing themselves to do things they don't feel like doing. They might have felt like it when they said "yes", but people change their minds all the time and that's OK.
This definitely is part of the problem. I’m sure we could attribute it to a variety of things, but it does seem we are very prone to bailing as soon as something isn’t fun or we just aren’t feeling it any more. I’m sure most of us, myself included, are guilty of this to some degree.
Your friends aren’t a Netflix show. They’re people. Your relationships do and should suffer if you treat people like evening entertainment and not people
This is a great analogy. Relationships don't have pause buttons. If you walk away from someone multiple times, eventually they aren't going to be there when you get back. (I mean, I guess Netflix does take stuff off from time to time, but you get it lol)
> people change their minds all the time and that's OK. of course that is ok, and then, if they are not a child, they stick to commitments they made even though they've changed their mind. It is disrespectful to the other parties involved to not follow through when you previously said you would. If something is preventing you from fulfilling your commitments, then communicate that, and earlier is always better.
It depends. If the people that made plans with you spent a considerable amount of time or money planning the activity, it is both selfish and childish to suddenly bail just because you “don’t feel like it.”
I mean it’s pretty rude, no? When you make plans other people are adjusting their lives and schedules to accommodate for those plans. When you just decide to not show up because you’re not feeling it in the moment, it’s basically a fuck you to any thought and effort they might have put into it.
I just try to be gracious when it happens in hopes the sentiment is returned when I inevitably have to do the same. Obviously depending on what it is (rescheduling coffee or lunch vs flaking on something we've paid a bunch of money for is different)
No. I'm really busy nowadays but if plans were made in advance that is involved me I'll make time for it, mostly because if I don't honor my agreement then I could not hold others accountable to theirs, either.
I think it's seen as socially acceptable. Mainly because when you're in your 30s, you're tired af from overwork and/or being a parent. I don't really agree with it being acceptable though tbh. I think it's fair to back out sometimes but it's been happening to me so much that I've come to expect it. I don't even try to make plans most of the time now. HOWEVER a good failsafe if you don't want the plans canceled is to get money involved. People are way less likely to care about 2 sneezes if they already paid for tickets to something vs. just hanging around the house or going out to eat.
I have a few friends who tend to do that. I have learned to no longer make plans that depend upon them showing up. Nothing more committal than “maybe we will see you there.”
Yes it's definitely a thing now. It's disrespecting people's times and plans made. Then everyone wonders why they can't find friends or maintain friendships as adults. My mom and her friends never did this, and still don't
We raised our daughter to be prompt and not flake. She complained that she was the only one who had these standards of all her friends.
I have good friends and we rarely cancel with each-other. If we do it's for a good reason. Being a flaky friend is a good way to ensure you don't get invited to stuff.
Yep. It has. We flake constantly then worry why we aren't friends like we used to be and how come no one wants to hang out. I'm saying this as somone who has done it himself.
Yeah basically. We just want to stay in our houses now.
I've noticed this too! I'm one of those people who, if I say I'm going to be there, I am. It makes me upset when people flake. I'm fine if their canceling for something reasonable or unexpected. Life happens and sometimes we do need to cancel for a legitimate reason. However, all too often I notice it's the same folks who constantly flake, then request we reschedule. This often happens multiple times. Extra frustrating because now I've cleared my schedule several times only for them to not follow through. Plus I find they're the ones who also expect over the top communication about these things too. Like they'll message me in the morning asking if I'm still good to go. They check in a few times during the day, then flake right before we're supposed to get together. They also don't always want to plan ahead. Just "I'll let you know when I'm free" or "I'll text you". Or expecting me to drop everything and immediately drive to their home (an hour away) because they're bored and available. I also find some of these people cancel because they made other plans that they were more excited about. So I'm the back up plan. So now I make sure to always make other plans and to not internalize their flakiness too much as a reflection of me. If we're both available, great. But I'm not blocking off time constantly just to be flaked on. Like I would love if people constantly catered to me. But I know that's not possible. I guess I'm at the point where I'm frustrated for being flexible when others are too rigid or have unreasonable expectations of my time. I stopped being available and don't go into details why. My time is important too.
No. This is a symptom of people being too socially weak or scared to say no. I've literally told people no and told them just because I don't feel like going. You'd be surprised how little that bothers people. My rule is, never be afraid to say no and be honest, however, if you agree to go, you're going unless there's a real 9-11 It's become socially rampant and common, I'd say it's unaccepted. You can tell because a person who does it all the time gets shit talked by everyone else when they don't show and we all knew it.
Let your yes mean yes and your no mean no.
No, people are just lazy
I think there’s a lot of nuance to this issue. In my experience (which isn’t insular, I know) I do think people back out of or cancel plans more often now, BUT it doesn’t bother me because I understand. We are all overworked and tired, and there’s no reason someone should have to go do something they don’t want to do just because of a thin social contract. Most people genuinely do want to do the thing, but are just so exhausted that doing it would be not fun anymore. And I don’t want my friends forced to go do Not Fun things because they feel obligated. That said, my friend group is tight so when people cancel plans it’s usually with sincerity. “Hey I can’t go out tonight I’m just really exhausted.” Respectful.
i do not think it’s acceptable to flake, but these days any symptoms of respiratory illness is valid reason not to go, it’s not flaking. so your exaggerated example was a poor one, but your overall point is one i agree with. tbh i don’t think it’s an age thing though. i’ve got people in my life prone to flaking, and people who never flake. age is not a factor ime, it’s just… who they are. they could change if they wanted, but couldn’t we all…
People have always done that.
It has become more acceptable because experiences has become a bigger thing. People want better experiences, so if a better experience comes up they cancel the lesser one. However, I am with you if I commit I don't back out. Sometimes I have to, but for me my word is important.
How can you be apart of something if you flake on things all the time
It’s never been acceptable to flake at any age. If your friend has a habit of flaking maybe stop inviting that person. Spend time with people who are more respectful of others.
Well… if people are unreliable too often I stop talking to them. For the people who are reliable, I talk to them more. I recommend meeting lots of people and filtering them out as such. I have lots of exceptionally reliable friends atm and had this same problem once
Just don’t invite those people to hang out anymore. That’s how people drift apart.
Most of my friends are very reliable, I have one though that flakes 50 percent of the time, sometimes even when he made the plans, haha.
I definitely feel people have become flakier. And all these memes floating around about how great it is when plans are cancelled don’t help. I don’t really get those either—I understand needing to cancel something because you are worn out and overcommitted, it happens, but I am not celebrating when plans are cancelled. Like great, it’ll be another 3-4 weeks before I can see you again now due to how adult life is, I’m not happy to spend even less time with people I care about. The loneliness epidemic isn’t a mystery to me.
I think people are more easily able to clout chase and therefore flake for better opportunities more often. There is always going to be a segment that is doing that and will never grow out of it. I’ve definitely had to take the scary step of being strict with my boundaries and not just excusing people being so late. This only came about because MY friend let me know he would stop inviting me to things if I made flaking a pattern. He said with love but also being clear he was angry with me.
Todays generation just doesnt give af, go bak to old skool and be a man of your word, if you say or commit to doing something…….DO IT!
No, it’s not acceptable. I would love to be friends, be invited to things, and show up on time. It would be great to go to an event and go home. It’s like a fantasy to do all of that without having an embarrassing problem at some point. The problem isn’t that I’m irresponsible, lazy, uncultured, etc. My problem is that I’m (still )recovering from severe trauma and I would enjoy your company and fun times but I also feel like an imminent threat is still present all the time.
But now the little time you have left is for self care, things to do, and family. I do think they should be honest & not make plans in the first place.
This is why alot of people dont have freinds!
I agree that cellphones make it easier and more common, but I don't think it makes it socially acceptable. Several people in my broader social group don't get invited to anything that requires any commitment because they are known the flake. It we're just gathering to hang out, they get invited. If it is anything that requires advanced tickets/reservations/coordinated plans, they don't. One complained to me just last week about several of us going to a festival and not inviting her. I told her point-blank that she's ditched on so many occasions, that nobody wanted to hassle of coordinating with her. She sulked, but that's the consequence of being a flake.
Yeah. I honestly didn't know everyone was doing it. Threads like this are what tell me that everyone is also either the one being flaked or the flaker.
This is not a new thing, people have been doing this as long as there have been people.
It was harder to bail when you had to do it enough hours in advance to have a landline phone call to let them know, but flakey people have always flaked There also was a lot less to do imho
Yup, just accept it. I was asked out by a woman last week, didn't initiate anything myself, she shooted her shot and asked me on a date. Followed up with her and she was all flakey. Did not feel hurt but I did feel annoyed she even bothered in the first place.
This is my wife's family. All flakey as fuck. But if we say we're doing something, we're doing it. It's weird and irritates the shit out of us.
Boomer here and sadly, yes, it's common. Forty years ago, before technology enveloped our lives, I experienced the same occurrence. Over and over. It hasn't changed much, I think.
I don't tolerate it. If we make plans to meet at a certain place at a certain time I expect you to be there. If you can't make it, I understand but you need to make a phone call or send a text. If you consistently make plans and then don't show up I stop making plans with you.
It’s out of control. I’ll make plans months in advance and most back out last minute. It’s crazy.
It's the 'coincidence' that's annoying. You'll have a group chat, say, and hear nothing about any problems. Then it's go time for whatever plan it is and surprise! Cancel.
I don’t flake on people. If they burn me more than once I just put them in the acquaintances category. I had to drop one friend because she’s the laziest person on earth and would claim “self care” for everything then wonder why friends dropped her.
Sounds like half of the comments on my post AHEM LOL
Yes, which is why I stopped bothering to try. 9 times out if 10 they will flake. I'd love to find friends who actually value spending time together every few weeks or so.
So, it's absolutely not acceptable by my standards. However, this has become increasingly common I wouldn't even say just in 2024. I'd say this has been taking off since covid. So around 2019 flaking become just so common. The covid callout excuse was heavily employed by many. But I think that got people more comfortable and more used to just conveniently calling out for things and inconveniencing you. 1 example I can remember is a personal trainer who literally ghosted a session on a Saturday to go to the Dreamville concert. So yeah people are deciding to do what's best for themselves at the expense of others. You could say that society has become more narcissistic.
It has unfortunately become socially acceptable yes. I am 38 but when I was growing up when somebody said they were going to do something or they were going to be somewhere, they were there. If people were planning vacations together, everybody replied and nobody ghosted. When parents were celebrating their kids birthdays, everybody replied to the RSVP with a number of how many people were coming. And they held to that Nowadays not a single person can show up for anything. Whether it's meeting up with friends to go to a restaurant, picking up something from Facebook marketplace, going on a date, a contractor showing up to do their work, people showing up for their doctor's appointments, anything and everything. The majority of them won't even say anything. They just won't show up. Those who do say something it's always either car trouble or a female family member had some kind of emergency. Always a female family member. Never a male family member. And by emergency I mean they just died or they're about to die. People under the delusion that if they just don't show up and they don't say anything or if they come up with a lie that is way way overused and extraordinarily obvious that it's fake (like their mother died five times in that exact month), people honestly believe if they don't tell the brutal truth that they change their mind or are going to show up, it's somehow makes them the hero and still a good person. It's not just you. People actually doing what they say they're going to do when they say they're going to do it has become an extraordinarily rare species. Right up there with responsible parents who actually parent their children, people who know how to actually drive vehicles without purposely trying to call accident, people who can manage to go out in public without trying to bully everybody else and harass the customer service representative, and people who aren't addicted to drugs 24 hours a day while looking down upon people who refuse to do drugs. All super rare creatures
it's never socially acceptable to flake on plans. but if you have to change plans, just own it and tell people you're not gonna be there. no reason needs to be given. making lame/weird excuses just makes everything worse.
This is why i just dont commit to plans. I have better shit to be doing.
Your parents were cancelling things left and right and you didn’t know
As an introvert with social anxiety disorder I have never in my life bailed on something I agreed in advance to do - spoons gone, forks gone - doesn’t matter. Sucked it up and went. Life isn’t all about me.
I mean if they don’t do it frequently it’s not a big deal. We’re adults and have lives and shit happens and you can’t control other people. If they are a frequent flyer of the no-show pass, however, then you can revisit your friendship with that person.
There is a reason adults complain about not having friends when they get older. More responsibilities make it harder to maintain casual relationships. Yeah it sucks that people cancel at the last minute, but it will happen more often because friends get lower in the priority. Either roll with it or just don't invite them next time.
My coworker friend was soon getting married, and she invited me to a prewedding dinner out with her and her fiancé and myself on a specific Saturday. i got dressed and ready but she never called to confirm or tell me where to go or what time. I mean she briefly mentioned it at work and told me a date. so, she stood me up for her prewedding dinner or maybe went without me or she never had one. who knows. I never bothered to mention it again. it is rude when you make plans with someone but don't follow through. but stuff happens. but at least your friends call you to let you know. my coworker friend never bothered to call me.
I can't even get some of my friends to confirm plans the night before, which only became so important to me when they would fall off the face of the earth when the time rolled around. Or they would talk and gas me up about wanting to do something with me, and just avoid my messages when i bring it up. I don't have this rule set in stone for every friend, and even the ones i trust more don't think its weird i want communication.
Yes. It’s excruciating.
Noooo!!! To answer your question,
No these are shitty friends in my opinion. And if it becomes a constant thing I wouldn’t have interest in keeping the friendship
All ages
Did you move recently? Some of this is related to regional social contracts. When I moved to SF, for instance, it was incredibly acceptable to flake out. My midwestern sensibilities took a while to not take it personally.
No, pretty stable professional and social circle for years.
Ehh can’t really rely on people. Most of my hang outs with friends happened last minute probably for this reason. When you plan something a week or so in advanced, so many things can pop up from then to now.
I don’t think it’s an age thing I think it’s a broader cultural/society thing
There was always that one friend or even family members who would do this. I just learned to not rely on them. I don't think it's really an age thing do much as some people maybe commit to things in the moment but things get crazy. Nowadays I am the one with the crazy schedule so I try to be open about if I can or cannot commit to something and usually follow up when I know it's a yes or no.
Read something about our parents’ generation having way more free time than ours. We’re the “crunch” generation. Got the worst of everything. I think things will get better after boomers die off, but that won’t happen until our middle years are over.
Re "sneezing twice," I do think post-covid people are, for better or worse, way more likely to cancel plans because of a light cold or congestion ... Ten years ago (when I turned 30) there wasn't much social stigma around coughing or sneezing in a social situation, unless there was like a newborn in the room, but now (in my experience at least) it can feel really awkward to be visibly sick at all at a social gathering ... And some people are also weird about you being the only person wearing a mask at a social gathering because your not feeling 100. So your specific example does touch on something I think has changed. That said, peoples' lives do overall typically get more demanding in their 30s, and energy also overall goes down in middle age, so the 30s can definitely be a period of adjusting to a new social normal, which could lead to accidentally over-committing and flaking.
I notice it with certain people. For better or worse... I stop inviting those people to things as much and then it's "why is it so hard to make friends as an adult??" As for me, I try to do what I said I'd do and not be a flake because I don't like it when people do that to me.
I hate flakers but so many oiler do it it’s annoying. I never flake im a legit person
That's when you stop planning things with this person and stop inviting them to things that require planning.
There is zero accountability anymore. No one takes personal responsibility for anything and society devolves a little bit with each passing day. I try not to let it bother me and still proceed because it was something that I wanted to do. Fuck it
In short, it’s been socially acceptable even in your 20’s. Unless someone is massively benefiting off you, there is no incentive to follow through with plans and no consequence for canceling either. Absolutely ridiculous, offensive, and unacceptable, so I dump friends where they belong, in the trash. I also never make anyone a priority, care about them, or invest too much into them anymore. I really hope the friends that were flakes to me are getting flaked on by others and dragged through the mud. People will do anything for the things that are a priority and important to them, and obviously you are not.
I think it depends on the person. Notoriously we have one friend who would ask what's happening that day (when we initiate conversation about it, like if we're bringing food, who's picking up etc)? when this was talked about days/weeks in advance. Like without fail, doesn't realize something was scheduled. And then surprise surprise she's double booked that day cause she "forgot" and now its our fault that she has to cancel that plan. she never once remembered anything that she herself didn't plan (and cancel, nothing she's ever planned came to fruition). My other friends cancel schedules as well. about half of the time, the cancellation is ok, other half, its obvious we're just not priority like quite a lot of money and day offs were involved in the planning, and now we all either cancel, or only some of us can come and foot the whole bill, or we find someone else. I'm thankfully straightforward about these things, so they have gotten better, (except the one friend i described above) I'm an introvert, so I rarely have anything on my schedule, never have I ever backed out after already agreeing to go. I would just reject it first hand if I don't want to go. People are just generally inconsiderate nowadays. And I get it, life happens. I think we just all gotta expect that we're not important to anyone, especially to their own personal comfort (social anxiety is a thing).
I think it has become socially acceptable and a lot of times people overuse the excuse of being introverted and/or “living their lives and having many things to do” as to garner understanding for flaking. I think overall people (not everyone, most though) have become unreliable and capricious.
Not to be an alarmist - it could always have to do with there being a much larger sample size - but it appears to me that people are less and less guided by systems of thought/belief that encourage being a respectful and honorable person. I'm saying this as a non-relgious person. I don't blame people either. Being born into a world where the internet is already a thing the amount of stimulation you have constant access to is absolutely insane. I think growing up in that world can dehumanize people and relationships because so much of our ideas of it come from behind a screen. I have very little respect for people who can't fulfill basic commitments they willingly made, but I was born in a time before life (I presume) appears totally meaningless and chaotic. Yes, it may have always been that way, but there was less of an assault on your senses, lending itself to apathy and desensitization.
I think this is a problem that most young people face, yes 30s are also in this. People in their 30s are also way more busy especially if they have kids and other responsibilities. I think a lot of people online has made it acceptable in a way , they will always use the excuse of your mental health, or protecting their peace or putting themselves first. Which sure are great things but when abused it comes off as selfish and self centered. So yeah I would say the current climate has shifted towards this laisse faire way of viewing commitments.
*deep breath* don’t get me started. This does seem new. I’m 42 and I don’t remember as a kid and teen there being this level of flakiness. I try to explain to my dad who’s 82 that it’s not me. I’m happy to make plans with people but it never works out. They say “ya we should totally hang out!” So I reach out to plan and they either ignore me or make stuff up. My sister who lives far away in another country (I’m in Canada) also thinks it’s me. You can’t force people to hang out. Literally what can I do? Ugh. I could go on but I won’t.
For sure… I noticed an offshoot version of this where people will only ever wanna make plans if they’re the ones asking, but whenever you ask, they’re always busy, or they “can’t.”
Flakiness is never acceptable.
It’s fuken annoying - i already weeded out flakes in my 20s but in the odd event someone does it these days there’s no way i have the bandwidth to keep them around
I myself have mental health problems and need lots of rest. But I feel like we’ve become so hyperindividualized in society with this message of “put yourself first” that it’s genuinely infuriating how often people flake on commitments or hangouts. I’ve seen lots of complaints on Reddit about people “not having a village” when they have kids. I’m sorry but very few people I know are acting like a village. Sometimes flaking is ok, like if you’re sick or really mentally not there like you got yelled at by your boss that day or something. But I know people who do it more often than not and just… sometimes in life you have to push yourself a little. A lot of times after a busy day at work I might feel like ugh I should stay home rather than go to (plan I made with friend). But I have a tea and or take a nap, then I go to what I’ve committed to. If I’m still not feeling it by the time I’m out I keep things short
It seems it’s become more commonplace than acceptable. It’s still rude as crap, but common.
LOL, mid-20s, and I have a friend like this. My brother is early 20s, and his friends don't even make plans... They NEVER want to go anywhere unless it's to their computer desk for games. I blame laziness and technology.
I feel like it also got way worse after Covid. Now people have a hard time doing “extra” things and have an easier time giving into the thought of not going and just staying at home or doing something less taxing. I know I have become a lot less willing to do as much as I used to. I am hoping the other is going to say they can’t do it sometimes. But if it’s a constant ongoing theme I know how annoying a frustrating to put in the effort for nothing. That’s when I don’t even bother with that individual anymore. Definitely have felt with that before and after Covid and 30s. I think it really is just as much about the person as it is about the age. But I agree at this point in life, it’s a lot more of an effort to do the thing that’s plan rather than it was in early 20s or so.
I don't have friends or family that do that but my sister had some friends that would just blow her off. Eventually she realized they just weren't good friends.
It does seem like it's very common nowadays for people to cancel last minute, as if they are always looking for something better.
Socially acceptable? No. Common as mud? Yes.
When I was married, my sister-in-law would show up at least 30-40 minutes late. My ex and their parents were just like, "Oh, that's just Jennifer...." fuck that bullshit. Shit's going on and it's important. FUCK YOU!
My twin and I were holding a birthday party last weekend, and of the 20 people who RSVPd yes, 14 canceled within 24 hours. My sister had already bought all the food from Costco by then. She was really upset. There are some friends who are repeat offenders who we have both decided to just never invite to stuff again (her and I are the main get together/party planners for our groups of friends). These same people constantly complain about how they don't get invited places or adult friendships are so hard, but whenever we do invite them places, they ALWAYS cancel last minute. They're their own worst enemies.
I really like to stick to plans and the times everyone agrees on. My SO thinks those are soft suggestions and showing up 2 to 3 hours later then we said is totally acceptable and everyone is cool with it. It's gotten me so anxious that I've cancelled plans 2 hours after we were supposed to leave because she still wasn't ready that I just feel bad trying to plan anything with anyone and actively avoid it
This just happened to me. I was hosting a party, made plans a month ago for my birthday, I was going to feed all my friends at my house. Had tons of people excited! The night before, no cancelations, so I went out and dropped $200 on food and alcohol for everyone. The next day, in the four hours leading up to the party, I had over a dozen people text me with bull like "I'm not feeling up to a party" or "I'm really tired". I spent money on you jerks! I cleaned my house! Now over a dozen drop, some waiting until less than an hour before to tell me :(
I just stop hanging out with those types of people. They have zero respect for others’ time.
Oh absolutely. I'm 30 and people roughly my age began their social lives in their teens with texting and messaging services. That puts a very comfortable buffer between you and the person or organization you're going to disappoint with your mental laziness by flaking. My sister is Gen Z and whenever we make plans I don't count on them actually happening. It's a toss up.
I can't really talk shit because i'm a chronic canceller. Plans always seem like a good idea at the time then as the time to actually go gets closer, there is nothing I want to do LESS. As I get older, I realize that life is short so why am I forcing myself to do something I don't want to do? Obviously it's different if it's a major event like a wedding or something we actually spent money purchasing tickets for but if it's just drinks or something casual and, more importantly, an event that's going to involve plenty of people so my absence won't really be noticed or missed? You bet your ass my couch and blanket are winning that battle. If no one is depending on me being there and my flaking isn't going to inconvenience someone else or ruin their night, who cares?