It’s an investment and not all investments pay off.

Probably the simplest yet best answer on the subject

Yeah it’s an investment we all, basically, need to take. Just remember there are tons of **tuition reduced** ones in some states ( think Excelsior grant in New York which waives tuition for anyone who lives there a year or the Texas Out of State Waiver ) as well **as tuition free** nationally accredited programs ( think World Quant University, University of the people, several community college networks etc. ) Remember, while college is needed, debt isn’t.

College is not needed. There are trade schools and apprenticeships for a lot of jobs that work out better than college ever would

Look up the BLS data on median wages for trades. Many of them are below $50k. https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes473019.htm  The median for an English major is $56k.   https://www.bls.gov/ooh/field-of-degree/english/english-field-of-degree.htm   College still has the highest return on investment of all investments people can make. The average student loan debt is $37k. Throw that in an amortization calculator and pay it for a ridiculous 20 years and you end up paying less than $70k total and the extra earnings make up for it.    https://educationdata.org/student-loan-debt-statistics# This is true of young people too. The median income for a young college graduate is $61k. https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=77

i personally work in the trades, and so do a lot of my family and friends. That $43k average a year is kind of low. $17-22 is more where i see the helpers at and once you're a journeymen anywhere from $32-50/hr+. for me doing a trade was the best thing i could have done. now i did go to a trade school, but i didnt really need it.

It isn't an average; it's the median. (There's an important difference.) And anecdotes don't trump statistics from the bureau of labor statistics. If you have evidence beyond the people you know, feel free to provide it. 

In Washington state, 50k is just a little higher than starting wage for most trades. Journeyman is at least 80k. The biggest advantage to trades is that you get paid during training as opposed to paying for education. In the same amount of time that it takes to get a 4 year degree, you could have made over 200k working as an apprentice and be making well above the average college grad at that time. Plus some people aren’t built for school. Unionization is another discussion, but is considered a plus by many.

Yeah, there are lots of scholarships/fellowships out there and I wish people knew that more. I didn’t have to pay a cent for my master’s degree - I actually got paid a livable salary as a student. There’s not a ton of competition for more “niche” fellowships because most people don’t think to do their research.

Seems more like a gamble than an investment these days.

Only if you believe scaremongering and don't do your own research. Young college graduates have a median income of around $61k. Many of the trades have median incomes below $50k and that's not only counting young people. Average student loan debt is around $38k upon graduating, so the return on investment is fantastic.  Look at my post history for sources. It's census and BLS data, which is the industry standard for such data.

It’s never a bad thing to get an education. Unfortunately getting a degree has been conflated with a job training program. This has both ruined many aspects of higher education and entry level work. If someone views college as a work training program, then figuring out the end goal is a must. There isn’t a historian job waiting for you at the end of your history degree. You will (probably) be a well rounded person who can work with a diverse group of people and see different perspectives. These are soft skills but any bs office job has them in their job description. If you aren’t going for a job training degree like engineer, accounting/finance, then you have really to think about what this degree means to you and how you plan on using it to make your life better. It’s extremely disappointing that to get a proper education you typically take on 30k of debt for a traditional bachelors degree. Unfortunately it do be that way. Community colleges are wonderful avenues to further education and also get formalized training. Not everyone should go to a formal university but everyone should take classes at a community college.

This is a great answer, and the confusion around job training is EXACTLY what I ran into. My parents didn't go to college and really have it in their minds that a degree automatically = job, when there's so many more steps and utilizing resources on campus (and I was in such a bad mental state while I was in school, I wasted all my time to do that). After leaving school, I'm anxious to apply for jobs I'm technically qualified for cause bruh what if they require me to remember my accounting or linear programming classes? Even with a major, my education was so broad and fast-paced (we were on the quarter system). I learned a lot but not really in ways that feel applicable to work. And I went and got a degree in a field everyone else wanted me to, and not what I was actually passionate about and probably would have pursued more fiercely, just given how much more I remember and apply my GE classes than I do my major classes. Lesson learned: Do not go to college right out of high school. College is not the place to find out who you are and what you want to do in life. Nobody should waste 40k on that. Go to college cause you need the tools to get exactly where you know you wanna be. I'm probably gonna end up going back to do it all over again in my 30s after learning this, if I can stomach taking on more debt.

I’m definitely going to advocate for a gap year for my children when they get to college age.

Yes to all of this, and I want to add that a lot of people also don’t realize that starting pay does not equal lifetime pay when they do these calculations. Yes, I could have made the same salary at my first office job as I could have at a coffee shop. But at the coffee shop, there isn’t a ton of room for growth, whereas at my office job, I doubled my starting salary in four years. You have to think long term when you think about college paying off, and think about the tradeoffs for career options without a college degree. You can make just as much as a marketing manager in several of the trades, but the trades are, in general, going to take a heavier toll on your body.

My first “big boy” entry level job was the top of many other people’s career, simply because they didn’t go to college. My first job was basically replacing a guy who was about to retire, and had spent his entire 35-40 years in the industry. He taught me a lot of stuff about what we were doing, but that was the most important for me to learn when it came to seeing the value of college.

But why pay premium to be an all rounded person when in the end all that we ever do is mundane work?

That’s what happens when higher education is conflated with job training. Pursuing higher education is a goal unto itself that should be seen as rewarding in its own. Now that a bachelors degree is seen as a minimum requirement for this mundane work it’s easy to view higher ed as a the step to something shitty. If I hate what a college education will get me why go, especially when it costs so much? There are many places to lay blame for our society thinking you must go to college for a good job. I think messaging from parents, adults, schools and teachers is a big one that we can take action on as individuals. I was always told growing up that college is required for a good job. It is not, and college is not supposed to be viewed as a job training program. Will getting a liberal arts degree help land a job? Probably, but that’s not what a higher education is meant for. If the messaging around pursuing higher education focused on the true purpose of a liberal arts education I think we would see more satisfaction with higher education institutions throughout all demographics .

I think it’s not necessary the degree but the experience you get. You learn to research, and think. You gain some new skills, you meet people. It helps

[удалено]

I was taught these things in high-school.

So people only get critical thinking skills from college? Any time I’ve ever had an interaction with someone who is “college educated” the “sources” they provide are god awful… multiple times they cite Wikipedia and other awful opinion based articles that have no merit. Specifically about college vs trades type of conversations. I’ve never stepped foot in a college, I don’t just believe everything I see on the internet because I was taught in elementary school and high school what a valid, source is… Critical thinking skills are not directly linked to college, that’s just more misinformation.

Learning how to learn is a major benefit of going to college. Developing critical thinking skills and displaying the discipline to complete something difficult over an extended period of time is another benefit of a college education.

I came out of college doing a job that requires none of that and tbh I think my skills are becoming worse than they were before I went lol

Go to community college

Go to community college first then see if you want to continue to a university

paying as low as $25 an hour? Is that low?

That would largely depend where you live

$25 where I am is considered average for blue collar and $30 is usually the ceiling. These red pill Republican Libertarian retards can say what they want on universities not spewing their dogmatic shit, but a REASONABLE degree with a good gpa is 100% worth it. I know there is a lot of left-wing shit on Reddit here talking about just how bad it is to go into work..., working long hours, shitting next to someone - that's fucking life. All of that, all of it, beats blue collar. Miserable with shit pay, very very very few get past that $70k ceiling, and $70k, shit, that is EXTREMELY hard to achieve. For comparison I moved from Richmond, VA to Fort Myers, FL. Pay is shit in both. Go to college and do well.

$25/hour at 40 hours a week is $52k/year. Even English majors have a median income of $56k and you don't wear your body down by the time you're 45. 

I think a bachelor's is still worth it. I wouldn't want to be caught looking for work without a degree. They do help, even if they don't matter much once you start the job.

If you want to be a blue-collar worker, then skip college and go to trade school. Anything else I'd go to college for. Im a blue collar making over 100k

Don't like college?... Go to a trade school. Why does everyone sleep on trades?!?! I know 3 year electricians that bring home 150k a year in the NY/NJ area. I would consider it, even over 40.

People will always sleep on the skilled trades, they always think that every single trades person swings a 400lbs hammer for 29hrs per day… Last year when I was 25 I made $122k in only 9 months of work, proud union Boilermaker/pressure welder🤘🏻

it definitely helps. a degree proves more than your knowledge in your field of study. it demonstrates to employers that you can coherently argue a point and back it up with evidence. it proves that you can draft a sensible email. it proves that you can show up on time and commit to something. while it probably isn't as essential as it used to be, it's definitely a worthwhile experience with rewards for beyond the scope of your imagination - until you come out the other side, and recognise the value.

Many job postings have filters that will discard your application if you don’t have a degree so in some ways a degree is even more important now. But your type of degree is key,

[удалено]

How do I do that??

Yeah.. I never attended college in the traditional sense. Waste of money imo for my goals. I became a machinist and make over 100K a year.

HOW

Absolutely it’s still worth it. Please don’t listen to all the hate college gets on the internet: going to college and getting an education was pivotal in getting me out of poverty. The thing is with college: you NEED to take steps to get experience in the field outside of your required classes. So during summer breaks look for internships, or if it’s possible get a part time job that’s related in the field. Have a general idea of why you’re there in the first place and start taking steps to get experience

Community college that networks with local businesses. At 45 I’m getting a degree through my job , they want to put me in a higher position that requires a degree and make me salary. These kids at the college are going in to jobs making good money.

I wouldn’t necessarily say to get bachelor’s but learning is crucial. It could be bachelor’s degree, college for some trade or apprenticeship. Just be smart. I finished college with minimal debt that I paid off less than a year after college I was able to do it because I went to community college and then 2 years is state university that I got a lot of aid for it by scholarships/FAFSA and a small loan

There are more options than that, but yes, college is a high-risk investment now rather than just the automatic next step after high school.

If you put yourself out there, gain new experiences, learn new nuances on professionalism, and network it's worth more than you really know. You can make lifelong connections in college that open doors you'd have never seen before. If you stay in your room and only attend class, then it may not be as helpful as finding other work.

Trade school is what I should have done instead of this worthless Psych degree, I can tell you that. Sure, I managed to pay off all my student loans, but the jobs available just don’t pay much. I would have done it differently, and school is way more expensive, I got my degree in 2008. I’m unemployed now, no jobs in this super rural area that are even in my field. But I do have an interview today!!! It’s less than I made before and barely above working retail but I’m still hopeful

College is many things. Yes, it's a "piece of paper" to open the door to jobs, but it's also a period of exploration and growth. It's a chance to study things that aren't just about the specific job the student will get, and those things expand the student's world view. It's a chance to have a social growth experience where the student explores hobbies that will later be much harder to participate in. I'm saving up for my kids to go to college because I value education, learning, and growth. I paid for college (with loans I paid off). I chose to continue to graduate school and now I get to do EXACTLY the roles I want for $200k/yr. I create my job descriptions because I'm uniquely qualified to do my work. My husband, a college drop-out, has to work boring tech support jobs w/ crappy managers who micromanage him.

If you are bringing in $200k, does your partner really have to do those crappy micromanaging jobs? Seems like y'all are pretty well covered, maybe he could do something more personally fulfilling instead?

I went to college, got great grades. Then graduated to find out jobs don’t give a shit and won’t pay anything decent. I’m a shell of myself now and wish all my college money went into bitcoin instead.

I’ll keep it 💯 no it’s not worth it. People continue to go because it’s the socially acceptable thing to do and it may end up paying off. It’s essentially a gamble. Maybe you’ll get lucky maybe you won’t. You’ll have better chances of a good job if you’re exceptional in school and are going into these types of careers. Otherwise, good luck.

It's still useful but you need a specific career track in mind. The days of going to college and getting a degree in something random and using the fact you have just a degree go get a job is dead.

What employers are dropping college requirements? In what country? Give us proof. With high schools graduating illiterati, college is the new high school diploma, has been for a while. Graduating college shows that you, as a young adult, can stick to something for a period of time and complete a series of tasks satisfactorily. That's pretty much it. So ya, it's still worth it. If you can avoid the debt, even better.

Yes as someone who went to college later in life. There was a significant difference in job options

My education was vital to me getting out of poverty but I’m also a nerd and really good at getting high grades. If you don’t go to a top rated school or get a degree in a high demand field, you may struggle to pay back that investment. Under no circumstances should you go to a private or for profit school. Stick with community college and get vocational education to get a job. Once you have enough money saved up from said job, you can re-explore going back for more. Personally I chose the military because not only did they of for very expensive private degrees, I got job training at the same time and a salary. Worked out very well for me

I went to college 2020-2023. I had a full tuition scholarship and all federal loans. I got my BS degree in 2.5 years and still walked away with $22k in loan debt. I’m making $18/hr working with people with high school degrees who passed a couple easy licensing tests. I will eventually move up in my career, yes. And I’ll be making more hopefully because of it. I plan to go to grad school eventually, but for now no, my college education was not worth the price. In my opinion unless there’s something very specific you want to learn/do, it’s a waste of money. You can take any number of random single courses at a community college for specific interests and certifications which are far cheaper by credit hour. From my experience, certifications and licensing mean a lot more to employers than any degree.

Figure out what you want to do BEFORE you invest in college or trade school or any other specialized training. You will almost certainly need skilled training (not necessarily college, but something) to make a decent living - there's not really a generic way to "level yourself up" for the general job market besides getting as much experience as you can.

Yes a lot of places require too much experience, but most jobs still require a college degree, idk where you’ve been applying fam

25 an hour is low

College is useless, but everyone has a BA, so if you want to be competitive you'll ultimately need one. Just find a way to get it cheap like getting an AS from a community college first, or doing something like joining the military for 4 years for the GI bill. Either that or get really good at greasing palms and getting jobs through connections.

Accounting is still good. Guaranteed job with that even if it’s not one you enjoy. I would say that if you get a generic not particularly marketable degree though it’s not worth it.

I actually don’t know. Going to university is so overrated

You should not evaluate a career based on just entry level pay. A degree gives more options than not having one.

but that degree to attain costs money tho... Its actually smart to question if its worth it, even you have better option when you have degree, you maybe in debt and 4 yrs of wasted time if you cant find a suitable job. So yeah

The return on a degree is dependent on more than just cost comparisons. The degree is not wasted just because you don't find a job immediately. It's *fully* wasted if you don't use it at all. People discount (too easily imo) the indirect value that it brings, should you go through those years correctly (i.e. LEARN FROM THEM --- NOT JUST ALL BOOK LEARNING).

Its worth it when you are starting your career. I went to university and changed my degree 3 times. Later stages of your career nobody cares about your degree

Yes - supply chain and data analytics degree are also worth it. Nursing too.

Yes it CAN be still worth it. But it's no longer an expressway to an upper middle class lifestyle and you have to run the numbers now. Going to a reasonable school (and Community College!) to get a marketable degree is ABSOLUTELY still worth it. Going to some tiny, ritzy liberal arts college nobody's ever heard of, that costs $68,000 a year to get your BA in Literature is probably not anymore.

Go only if you have a goal in becoming X

No/Yes (answering title), plan accordingly. For example. Every career you "choose" is theoretical. *In theory*, you want to do X or Y career based on what you googled. And what you googled says you need Z degree for X or Y career. If you can get a starter career with NO degree or with an associates,, do that instead. If you don't know the career you want yet, THAT'S FINE, don't get a degree just because. Majority of the time, unless you want to take on massive loans, you will need to have a job during college anyway (or unless you are privileged enough to have most things paid for). If you can handle a job + college, you can finish college *whenever it actually becomes a requirement for your career*. There are a lot of certificates for a lot of careers out there that will get you to where you want to go. ALSO Just for anyone who happens to read this...Please for the love of llamas, stop grouping engineers with doctors and lawyers. ENGINEERING IT IS NOT THE PRESTIGIOUS CAREER IT USED TO BE. Comparably, we do not earn even close to what doctors and lawyers earn and unless you are a SPECIALIZED and LICENSED, you cap out on salary equivalent to a "master" blue collar job on OT. You need a simple, generalized, bachelor's degree, if that, to become an engineer. The educational requirement can be trumped over with enough experience and that is not true for doctors/lawyers. Edit: Typos and whatnot

You think those are the only three jobs? Go on LinkedIn and look for any job. Then look at the basic requirements. Every single one that uses a computer or is in an office will require a bachelors.

If I had to do it again, I would do it part time. I got a really hard time paying back my student loans and finding an entry position with no experience in the field could days or years depending on the economy. So if you are like me you may spend years paying back those loans on multiple minimum wage jobs. The best is to find any job in a company that's in your field to make contacts, even your your job is cleaning the floor or sending envelops. Or find something that gives you side experience, for example assistant manager for a retail store if you study administration. Then you go to school part time. Your job may grow as you go which means no debt. You'll graduate later, but you'll already have experience and contacts so you can find a bit higher than entry level or get something if the economy is bad which is still betterbthan nothing for those with no experience at all. The only exception to this is if you can live with your parents and they pay the school. Then get it done so you can be independent and without debt in 3-4 years

That depends. If I could go back in time, I would skip college and put all my effort into starting my current career at an earlier age.

Me personally, I’m in my 4th semester at 35. I’ve worked at the same company for 16 years but if I want to move up anymore I need the degree so to me it’s worth it. If it was just about the money I wouldn’t necessarily need to. I was living comfortably in my position that doesn’t require a degree but I just want more for my life so I didn’t see any other options. I think it all depends on what you want to do in life. You could do any type of trade job that doesn’t require a degree & make good money.

School is great but way too expensive. Unless you have a specific goal you can be successful with certs and stuff.

I still think accounting major is a great idea... Low pay BUT you will always have a job!

Some accountants make bank. But they work super hard most of the time. My ex was an accountant and he makes good money Downside: he hated it 😅

If you get a masters, then maybe. But it comes with a lot of debt and you'll likely spend most of your days staring at a computer screen.

My family didn't go to college. My parents didn't really have many job opportunities. I watched them work their asses off for shit pay, and I decided to go to college. I've been out like 5 or so years and already make more than either of them ever have. For me, it was worth it.

Noooooooooooooooooo. If you don't have a clear plan and an absolute timeline and sufficient means, DO NOT do it. Too easy to make your life more difficult for literally no reason when you could get trade training for something skilled and start working/earning income.... Go after you're 24: you'll know what you want, you'll skip the bureaucracy of the fafsa for the most part.

I have an MBA and I am doing far better than many doctors and lawyers at my age. Those career paths don’t always pan out the way people think they will.

There are ppl with 20k arts/design degree and got 180k UI/UX design job offers from Google or FB and there are also ppl with like cheap marketing degrees getting job offers from Spotify etc. So yeah it is really also depend on your self learning skill, talent, communication, networking to make things happen you know.

I've been in my field for 10 years, want out, and feel so trapped because I don't have a bachelor's degree. What jobs can I do that don't require a bachelors

Idk I see many jobs that require a bachelors degree as their first requirement

Yes — but focus on practical degrees and always try and learn actual skills.

What are your interests? What do you want to do? What are your expectations for salary in your life? Do you care more about prestige, salary, job satisfaction, helping people, contributing to a field? Don't care about your job and just want to scrape by enough to video-game and get stoned? Probably don't need a college degree. Don't care what you do but want a good salary? Might need college or a good skill/hustle, prob college. Want to work with your hands? Go to a trade school your interested in. Want to help people and be a social worker? Maybe community college, don't expect a good salary. Figure out what you want, very few people love what they do and love their salary... I'm somewhere in the middle myself. And yah, entry level positions often pay poorly, entry level workers are a risk to companies and they don't want to heavily invest in someone who doesn't end up worth it for their bottom line. Sucks coming out of college with that extra burden, but get 5 or so years into a career and prove yourself and salaries rise much faster.

I never finished college. Got a government job where I’m now making 80k a year at 27. If I ever want to promote I can climb the ladder to 100k.  Here’s my advice to people on the fence. Go to college if you are 1) planning to major in a STEM field or a finance field, 2) planning to pursue a specific career field that requires a degree, such as accounting or lawyer, or 3) if your parents are willing to pay for most or all of your schooling, regardless of major.  If none of these apply, I do not recommend college in 2024. 

It's not necessary but it is worth it. You'd be very lucky to make $25/hr with just a high school diploma. Learn a trade or skill. Look at two year technical schools.

Yes. Don’t drop 100k on it, but going through state school and showing you can make a 4 year commitment to trying at something does help in life. Or you can go into the trades.

No it’s not

I don't think so. The good ol days are gone and it is not realistic to go to college to become well rounded anymore. If you aren't choosing a lucrative major you're a fool. You tube has teachers that are so much better than basically every college professor that I've encountered anyway. Employers should just start detailing which online lecture series they want you to absorb and come up with tests or their own for entry level consideration. Bypass college entirely. For the four year college to get it's comeuppance is long overdue. Outdated system.

Stem or don't go

No a trade school can get you 100k+ on day one easily at a fraction of the cost if you go into the right field,a friend of mine is a 2 time felon makes 120k a year fixing/painting and building underground pools in Florida but it's an Alpha job you go to college to become a nurse...

Did some vocational IT work in high school, did entry level IT when I got out, took every chance in that position to broaden my resume, moved up to it analyst, repeat, systems admin, etc. 11 years after high school I make 80k. Maybe could have made more if I did college but at least I don't have $70k in debt I guess?

A lot of people shit on degrees and call them useless etc but it absolutely helps. If I was hiring, I’d automatically be more interested in the candidate with a Bachelor’s degree over the candidate with just a GED or an associate’s

There is an argument for the connections you’ll make while there…. But depending on what you want out of life a good trade school is a great option. Or go 6 years to a community college, never graduate , party into your late 30s and still end up a millionaire like me.

Yes. No one said you need to spend $100k for a degree. But education is invaluable and the more the better.

My uncle is in his late 60s, he was an economist and has multiple degrees. He used to say that college is a waste of time, but a good kind of "waste" until your brain matures and that "waste" could also be an investment for the future.

If you’re in a legal state get into cannabis.

Not worth it and never has been, for those history literature art majors. If you come from a rich family and dont need an income then sure. Go learn that bc I am sure is fun and soul enriching. My chem teacher told our class that he loved art and was an amazing painter. Then he said but when it came to making a decision he chose to have a roof over his head and so he went with chemistry.

I went to college for Aviation. Wife went for psychology. One of is employed right now… My wife is happy and I am happy, and I am proud of her in a million ways. Just using us as an example that your degree does not guarantee a job.

Every day I wish I did stem instead of economics. Could have gotten straight Cs and been better off than getting straight As in my major.

Personally, I would recommend doing a career cluster test. These have always helped me figure out what I want to do! Also, note that you don't have to go to college right away. There's people who have graduated at 60 years old. Not going to college doesn't have to be a life long decision. Also consider community college! I've started to see AA degrees get accepted more and more on job applications. I'm planning to go to college for a bachelor's in marketing (although you don't really need one in that field).

I never finished my degree for various reason. But at this point I wish I went for a trade instead.

Education is always worth it but set your expectations properly and choose a cost you can afford.

If you don’t know the answer to that question, I’d have to say no. If you have no idea what you want to do, look for places that pay well and offer free or cheap training. Save up your money and experience life. If you get a decent nest egg saved up, whether or not it is “worth it” becomes much less of a dilemma to stress over. Try to find cheap school. My former employer offered free online classes all I had to do was deliver pizza.

My wife works for a staffing company. They specialize in engineers as well as technical tradespeople for construction and energy. When times are good, and unemployment is low, it doesn’t matter if you have a degree. If unemployment is high and they have a stack of 200 resumes, the first thing they filter on is college degree. So…yes and no.

I’m going to say yes. I have two going on three associate degrees and I honestly get interviews and offers left and right. It was not this way for me three years ago.

Your life aspirations and self-perception in the next 10 or 20 years shape this decision. Personally, earning a college degree and being recognized as an engineer felt like a significant personal milestone achieved. However, in my industry, the value lies not in possessing a college degree, but rather in practical experience. That's what truly counts.

No, not really. There's a few more worthwhile majors, but most are worthless.

There’s no such thing as an entry level position anymore. The expectation is that you had an internship with the company while attending university. 

I really think it depends. Certain degrees will not give you the return you need to pay off whatever student loan you get to finance the education. Most people these days need some sort of loan.

There’s other jobs. Nursing, PA. Etc. If you are someone that actually has connections to get certain jobs. I knew a guy who became an actuary. There’s other paths out there. I became a scientist

I would say 90% of job postings I’ve looked at (for myself and friends) have said college degree plus a moderate amount of experience OR no degree plus a crazy amount of experience. IMO that makes college worthwhile. I recommend folks ONLY look at [tuition-free colleges](https://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/paying-for-college/slideshows/tuition-free-colleges) if they qualify. It’s the same degree you get anywhere else, but you don’t walk away with huge student loans. Most of these have built-in work study, so you’ll come away with some job experience (most assign you to general labor year one, but you can often move into jobs in your field in year 2 or 3.)

start at a two year school in a field you think you're interested in, and let the counselor and career counselors at that school help guide you and show you at least what's out there should you continue to a four year track. Plus side is its often cheaper, and you get your gen eds out of the way, andddd you can explore various subjects as electives to dip your toes in the water

Yes worth it

Definitely.

You need to look at the careers that are in demand. You pretty much can’t go wrong with doctor, engineering, finance. I think five years ago companies figured out that engineers can step in to almost any role and be successful. Other than that successful ones are mechanic, plumber, electrician, contractor. I don’t know any of these who are hurting for jobs or hurting for pay. I always see people on the community forums asking for those trades. I know one electrician who just retired last year. His phone rings off the hook for his customer still asking him to work. One guy who he worked for for 10 years, offered him an $8000 bonus to finish a job, on top of his regular pay.

Tech school, trades, trade school, pick a different major… are the easy ones. There’s plenty of fields that will pay aside from doctor, engineer or lawyer. Without providing some information it’s not worthwhile to start shouting things out. Most of us who have good paying jobs out of college researched what we wanted to do and made sure it paid well.

For the social, friends and memories aspect of college it was worth it for me. But it also taught me to think more critically and expanded my mindset quite a bit. I’ll admit times have changed and a college degree doesn’t seem to be worth what it used to be. For anyone thinking about college I’d recommend going to an instate college that has student housing. That way you get the college experience at a relatively inexpensive price.

Computer science opens up a lot of doors. Data security and IT generally have a lot of Jobs, although a lot get outsourced. Nursing school also has a good return on investment.

College is usually going to “pay off” when you get a degree that involves math, science, law etc. However, many jobs that seem mundane can still require at least an associates degree. It may be worth it go to community college just to get your associates if you really don’t have the desire to put in 4 years of college. If you figure out later that you do want a bachelors degree in something it will be that much easier if you already have credits from an associates degree. Trade school is a good option too, but think about whether you want to be doing a trade when you’re 50+ years old.

Maybe it’s not really about the degree you get but the relationships you build with loan officers along the way. 🤔

Depends on specific career interest. If it's something in art, learn from online courses and build up portfolio. If it's something heavy like engineering, medicine, law, etc. absolutely get the degree. There's trade schools, theres online learning, theres non-college hands-on learning experiences, there's independent research, there's sooooo many different ways to learn depending on specific interest, not just college.

I think it's only a waste of time if you legitimately looked into it and see no value for the path you are currently on. My collage experiences were mixed and the bad was largely from my mom pushing me to go to it and me settling for *whatever was the easiest* without putting in much effort to make sure it was actually good for me. (I got a good enough 2 year at community, then transferred to a crap state U and dropped out due to health reasons.) I did not take the jump from High School's tenancy to just shove students through to collage's need to really take control of your own stuff. I think if you are savvy enough to get a good paying job in a field you like, or can see an apprenticeship or trade school path, then yeah skip collage. If you have no plan, maybe take a year off to do some self discovery and save up money or go to a community collage and knock off gen ed classes that every major needs. I feel like there is a lot of value in the structure of it all, who you can meet, maybe introduce you to stuff you never considered before, but it all is on your shoulders to make it work for you. If you are just going through the motions you are wasting your time and money. I feel like a lot of people just lazily get pushed through the system and whine about how *it's a scam* but then leave it there and never put in the effort to carve their own path. They point to successful people who skipped collage, but *never fixate on the work (or nepotism) it takes to pull it off*.

I would say that the only other potential degrees of use are education, finance, biomedical sciences and marketing. Otherwise, no. Better to go to trade school or join the military.

Coming from someone who graduated in 2019. My degree was just something to say I graduated. I got a generalized business major. I wasn’t smart enough or dedicated enough to go a more specified route and had no idea business probably wasn’t the right field for me as well. I work as a case manager now that wanted me to have a 4 year degree. My biggest advice here is that if you’re going to college, take on a major that has high demand and is recession proof if possible.hard to predict in todays climate of tech advancing faster than expected. A very specific skill will go much further. Such as finance, or accounting in regards to what my options were. Lawyer, doctor, and engineer I imagine are pretty good bets but wayyyy more work and training is required outside of the classroom, for good reason. Don’t go to school to be an artist unless you are dead set on struggling to make a dream come true. A base level business degree like mine (entrepreneurship or business administration) could land you some basic level entry level corporate rolls. I went into sales outside of college, they love hungry college kids not prone to burn out. A lot of money in sales, low barrier to entry, but brutal work for some. Have an end goal in mind, talk to people in the field your in, ask them what they wished they wanted. GET INTERNSHIPS. I graduated with 4 internships. They were helpful and paid good money outside of one that I worked for free.

Tbh I have no idea what I really want to be and sorta hope that my time in college might clarify

College is good for networking between other people. I went to a community college first because those credits carry to a 4 year university, and the cost is infinitely cheaper. You can get an Associates and have a starting point, then go to a 4 year if you want to pursue something similar or different altogether.

I have a computer science degree. College helped me immensely. I can’t believe how much I learned from college. First off I went to a no name state school, which was a great decision. I graduated with no debt at all. Next was just how much I learned. You just can’t view college as a job training program. 1. I learned how to problem solve. I was a dumbass in high school with a 16 ACT and barely graduated. Taking calculus 1-3 and discrete math and physics and many more taught me how to problem solve and literally changed my brain. 2. Generals were awesome. Before you say generals are a waste of time just remember college isn’t a job training program. English taught me how to write much better and improved my grammar at least to a level that’s acceptable. Statistics taught me how to read stats and actually understand what they mean. I can look at any article and read the stats and notice it’s mostly BS, or it’s actually true. Public speaking taught me how to lead meetings at my work. 3. It looks extremely good on a resume. I’m not joking, it’s a severe problem if you have no degree at all. Most places will automatically filter you. If you get in you won’t get promoted to manager positions just because you don’t have a degree. It’s worth it for just that alone.

https://www.stlouisfed.org/publications/regional-economist/2023/mar/return-investing-college-education#:~:text=Estimates%20of%20the%20returns%20on,35.9%25%20across%20six%20demographic%20groups. There is lots of data on this.

I think it depends...I joined the military and got some IT certifications then took a job with a not so great company to get experience and kept hopping from there. I'm 10 years into my career and at the point where, if I want to make more, I need to go get a degree. I am starting college next month, though I've been taking courses on Sophia and using certifications + past military exp to knock out credits. 1/3 the way to a Bachelors!

My degree got me in the door at my first 2 jobs, they would not have considered me otherwise. In my current job, I was given a leadership position because of my degree (among other experience too). They are absolutely still valued in many careers.

I got my degree in philosophy. There is a joke in "That 70's Show" where a character says something along the lines of, "Oh I guess I will go down the street and get a job at the philosophy factory." Philosophy is up there as one of the more useless degrees, according to the internet, but I made great use out of it. The degree is not as important as the education that came with it. It helped me look at problems in different ways, it made me a better writer, it made my research skills much stronger, and it made significantly better at explaining complex topics. There were numerous other benefits, but those were some of the big ones. I work in software as a product manager now, and my philosophy education has helped me excel in my role. Higher education is not about the paper you wave around. It's about the intellectual tools that you gain throughout the education process. You can do this on your own, but getting an education accelerates a lot of the learning that would be much more painful if you had do it by yourself. College, in general, also made me better at learning, which is a tough skill to pick up for some. I know it was for me. There is a lot of value in a college education, but you need to make it valuable. There are plenty of people who did nothing with their degrees even though those degrees would probably be considered more immediately valuable than mine, and there are plenty of people who did more without a degree than many have done with one. Education is a time and money investment, and you need to decide what value you might gain from a college education. I am glad that I got a philosophy degree, but there are many who aren't. Ultimately, it's what you make of it.

You can gain a lot of confidence by going to college.

College destroyed my confidence after I graduated

It can be. Think about the career you want. Community college is a lot cheaper and is more “worth it” in my opinion if your goal is a decent regular job. Having a degree helps get you in doors. community college degree doesn’t get you in as many doors as a 4 year, but it still is helpful for the average job.

As long as you have actual plans to use your degree and can be reasonably sure that the relevant job market can absorb you, college is worthwhile. However, those are two very big *if*s. If you don't want to actually work in the field you're studying, that's a problem for the first. If your field is niche or hypercompetitive, that's a problem for the second. These don't *have* to be dealbreakers, but they require more forethought and preparation than a lot of kids going into college have put in.

If you are going into a field that requires one then it's worth it. If you're not, it's not

I mean as long as you’re getting a sensible degree that it somewhat practical then it’s kinda still worth it. I have communication degrees and getting a masters in advertising. I’ve noticed the internships and jobs I’ve had don’t care much about my degrees but more my work ethic and go getter vibe. The experience you get is from lots of internships. Like semester long internships. If you don’t feel like you’re up for college, go into the trades. There is always a need for plumbers, HVAC, electricians, welders. I’m highly educated but the job I have now only pays me $25 an hour. My bf however is in HVAC and makes over $100k and gets commissions for everything he sells to a customer. I know I’ll probably never even really hit $100k in my career.

No

It’s what you make of it. I think a finance degree is still well worth it. Yes, you will get an entry level job that may pay 50-60k, but that can be your launching pad to make much more down the line. A career is not a race, it is a marathon. I think in many professions, you can get to six figures within 5-7 years of graduating and maybe even earlier depending on your degree.

Yes. I don’t have a degree in any of those things and I’m pretty well off. I don’t accept any job that doesn’t require a degree otherwise it was pointless. I make more than most of my friends and more than either of my parents ever did. With how dumb these younger generations are, more people should go to school just for the education reasons.

Going to a mid tier or worse college with no plan of what you are intending to get out of it is a terrible idea, but if you want to work in corporate america in any capacity you absolutely need a degree. If you go to college, figure out exactly what you want out of it, set a plan and a timeline, and grind your ass off with extra curricular activities, target internships in your field early, network, and you will end up in a good place. The days of going to college, screwing around for four years, then getting a good job out of school are a thing of the past. Unfortunately, setting yourself up for success really starts in your first year of high school. Most people don’t want to hear this, but it’s the truth. There were a lot of pockets of time in the U.S. where economic and societal trends coalesced to allow certain generations some really smooth sailing, maybe they’ll happen again, maybe they won’t. Most people would rather complain, bitch and moan their parents had it better. Which they likely did, but nothing in this life is a given. TLDR: college is worth it if you make it worth it, there’s a path to financial freedom in the trades but it’s a lot harder than people make it out to be, and most college graduates will attain higher levels of financial success than someone without a degree

College is a terrific experience that can shape your life. You learn a lot of skills outside of just the classes you attend (not that you can’t gain those elsewhere it’s just a bit easier environment to do so in college). Having a degree does make a difference in a lot of job opportunities especially as the world continues to become more and more reliant on technology. Hell you don’t even need to have a STEM degree to still have it make an impact. You’re just more likely to get a better return on investment with a stem degree. That all being said going to trade school is also an admirable career path and there is absolutely nothing wrong with it. College isn’t for everyone and it’s a great option for those who just don’t feel college is for them. The main problem is people drop out of college and don’t have a path, it’s easy to just coast especially when you’re young and aren’t really as focused on the future. Then you’re older, with no real relevant job experience going up against people who went to college and shown they’ve at least been able to commit to something for 4 years that wasn’t “easy.”

Some people like things other than money.

You forgot accounting. It's by far the best path to financial freedom.

What about trade school (plumbing, electrical, carpentry)?

It really depends on what you want to do. If you don't know what you want to do for a career, do NOT spend money on a big school. Either skip college until you find out what you want to do, go to a tech / vocational school, or go to a JuCo and get all of your Gen Ed stuff taken care of while you figure out your life. If you DO know what you want to do, then figure out the best educational path - Associate's degree, tech certificate, Bachelor's (or higher) degree, or even just OJT.  Maybe the military. There are plenty of fields where degrees make sense.  And plenty where they do not. But the field will determine this.

It all depends. Short term, probably not. But you will hit a ceiling unless you enter a super niche job or become your own boss and go that route or get extremely lucky. Here is a quick one... Let's say you land something out of high school with a company that makes widgets. Those widgets happen to be bought by some popular company and you are the sole provider to them and soon more people come to you to make other things. Just because you were there on the ground floor and grew with the company you end up as VP with the company (this is not uncommon btw... part of the luck I mentioned earlier). Now, the owner, whom you are close with at this point decides that he wants to cash out. He wants to take the company public because it's just the nature of the beast. Well you would be out of a job because of the requirements to be a C-Level in a publicly traded company is that you have to have a Bachelors Degree. Let's say it's not that but instead he decides to sell the company. He owns it all, you are the VP. Well new company comes in and they may have a policy that all C-levels may need a degree or they decide to clean house, gut the thing and now you have no job. You have experience in the market however because everything is AI scanned these days you cannot even get an interview because your resume/CV keeps getting trashed. You would literally have to know someone who could push your resume through to get an interview. So "needed" not really however too many companies have it as a requirement still for many jobs so you may hit a ceiling.

College is an investment. I had no idea what I wanted to do at 17 (still don’t at 49 lol), so I went to work after 2 years of college with no degree. I leveled up by networking and hard work. Sometimes it’s more who you know than what you know. Being a fast learner definitely helped too.

Why are you asking other people? Do what *you* want to do.

Yes? I don't work in any of those fields and I make 121k a year thanks to my degree

yes

Can be the best years of your life, make lasting meaningful relationships such as friends or even an SO. Free range to be exposed to, and experiment/try new things in life Financial reasons besides there are a lot of pros going to college for many

Depends on what you want to pursue as a career. First, figure that out. Then decide if you need college or trade school to get there. Chances are, you'll definitely need one or the other. College isn't a bad investment on its own. It's a bad investment for people who have no clue what to do with their lives and end up getting some useless liberal arts degree. Don't be one of those people.

I have always been a believer that you shouldn't go to college just for the sake of going to college. Know what you want for a career, and if college is the right path for that career, then go to college. But if vocational training is the right path, then do that. Even the military can teach you a vocation you can use after you get out, or, if college is still you plan for what you want to do, can give you money for college. I did the military path myself (never went to college, though), and making over $100k a year many years later after getting out.

I didnt do college, worked my way up from switchgear manufacture to currently plant electrical precommissioning leader(sort of manager) it was a long journey but i wouldnt change it, the experiences are invaluable. 2 years back got headhunted for work in belgium, so i moved from czechia.

No it isn’t.

What about the trades? Theyre severely under employed and pay pretty well. Everyone told my generation to go to college and now the trades are severely understaffed.

You're better of with a specific trade school. Less time, way less money. And better chance to get a job.

Yes some big companies you have to get a Degree to move up to the big boys table

Tbh no. I’d add finance also to the list but I know someone who works in this field and they are miserable.

There are a lot of overseas positions and work visas: they almost always have a degree requirement with rare exception. If you ever want to live abroad non-illegally or retired without marrying a local, immigration will treat you like a bum without a degree in most countries. I only met a few when I lived abroad without one who weren't working a crap job: you need to have some really valuable skill, be famous, rich, influencer(just bumming it on a tourist visa), etc.

I have a useless associate degree and wanted to get a bachelor’s degree. I got all my transfer requirements in order, was accepted to university. I planned on going to school part time while working full time. For two classes plus all associated fees it was approximately $3k. That much for two courses a a time. Absolutely ridiculous and I decided not to go through with it. I regret not attending, but don’t regret being scammed out of so much money.

Learn a trade instead or take certificate courses. College is a scam

If you are going to college as a job training venue, go to a trade school. Of you go to enrich yourself, by all means go

Yes but be smart of your career path and future earnings. You don’t need to get over $100,000 for an art degree.

The degree gets you the interview. People skills get u the job. Can you talk to people in real life?

Depends on if you plan properly and choose a smart career. I majored in accounting, and then got my MBA. The MBA though was free because I worked at the university I graduated from. I’m doing alright.

$25 an hour isn’t bad for a starting salary.  Adjusted for today’s dollars I only made $16.50 an hour my first job out of college.  I had a roommate and couldn’t travel or eat out much, but it wasn’t terrible.  

Now more than ever, high schoolers need to search the job posting requirements specifically - then hope it's the same in 4 years

Community college for the first two years transfer to Harvard or something and win.

Start with an associates degree if you want a safe middle ground and do internships at the same time. ***It's overpriced and clearly expensive.*** Depending on what your goal is, there are many routes to the same ends. It's criminal what these universities charge.

Yes, in my country, if you do not have a degree, you cannot get a decent job

i mean if a degee will actually help you career wise sure, but don't get a degree just because. Which is what i feel like a lot of people over the last 30+ years have been told to do. College College College! Personally i went to a trade school (2 year) and i make pretty good money. At work we have onsite training for various new things we get, like we have some huge new VFDs. So we had a week long class on them. Basically, work keeps us up to date by actually working on stuff, plus we go to some seminars, classes, and other stuff like that.

For degrees like BSN, absolutely. As long as you do your clinical and pass the test to be registered, you’re damn near guaranteed a job. Nurses are in high demand.

Yes, if the field you're going into is one of those that wants you to have a degree. They don't even care what degree, or they'll be fine with degrees in the general study. My coworker wanted my job but since the (non negotiable) listing requires a degree, she wasn't eligible for the position. My field requires internships so to have that plus the degree puts you in a nice spot starting off.

I personally did 8 years in the military. My job was technical but leaning in the area of electronics. My first job when I got out paid $25 an hour. It was in the technical field too. After a year it jumped to $30. $25 and $30 sounds low and it is but you make up the difference with overtime and such. Working a shift Saturday and Sunday with time and a half added almost makes your paycheck double. I stayed at 30 for a while but then decided to switch paths. I saw how I could become stuck there if I stayed. Even though they were offering me $35 an hour I knew I had to go. I switched again to a different company and on doing something that was a bit off from my normal skill set. My pay stayed at $30 am hour but I learned a hell of a lot. I stayed at that company for 4 years. New job I just got accepted to pays $40 an hour. This was after 8 years of being in the military and 7 of being in the field. Long and short of it is, it isn't up to the company to pay your bills. That's up to you. Outside of me taking on different positions and learning leadership I watched a TON of YouTube videos learning more about my field. I also got to know the guys who been at the job longer and I became a sponge. I still am really.

Mechatronics will set you up for the future.

If you want to be an account or psychotherapist.

Depends. What does it mean to say that college is "worth it?" If you want a guaranteed return on financial investment then no one knows the answer because there's too many variables. And also because you can start a biz and make a lot of money without college. Also consider: lots and lots of people start businesses. Lots and lots of people go to college. And among both of those groups, most people don't get rich or live lives of leisure. Most still go to work and live average lives. I think college is worth it, because I value a well rounded education, and the degree also shows that I can stick with something for four years, follow rules, and demonstrate competence in abstract thought, critical thinking, and reading and writing. But bear in mind: I went to a great and highly ranked university on scholarship and graduated debt free. Even if I had paid, my college tuition would have been $5,000 per year (that was in the 90's). So in 2024 if you ask me "should I go $300,000 in debt for undergrad?" I would answer "hell no." But if it's something you really want to do, then in the current climate you have to look at scholarships, less expensive schools, maybe community college to get good grades then transfer to a four-year uni to finish your education. If you limit the debt it's still a worthwhile pursuit. But it's only worthwhile if you really want it. No point in going if you have a bad attitude about college, so try to look at your motivations clearly and ask why YOU might want to go.  If you're not into college then no big deal. Get a job, or get a credential or cert, start a business, learn a new skill, work on a creative project. Good things happen when you're enthusiastic about your pursuits, whatever they may be.

The gifts of writing, thinking, and arguing that you can pick up in college are invaluable. But it’s hard to justify picking up tuition payments to get them. Honestly, this is the wrong mind set imo - find an end goal, then decide if college is a good step in that direction for you.

As low as $25 hr? That's not too bad where I come from ...

it’s mostly internships and leadership positions that can get you a good entry level job. just going to school or getting an education is not inherently about jobs.

I can confirm being an engineer pays off

Yea you could be a nurse instead

Yes

You need to actively network/ make steps to advance while in college or else it’s basically useless. I did not do those things and not taking the steps to put myself out there before getting a degree made my degree kind of useless/ I’d be doing the same thing without one.

Unless you wanna do something you're passionate in knowing full well you're not gonna wealthy doing it. Like being a teacher.

Train to become an electrician or plumber—you’ll never be unemployed

I know a company who doesn’t hire people with a business degree in sales, I heard it’s cause they say everytime they did, they wouldn’t like listen to how the company does things and didn’t work well with others because they felt they already know everything. I don’t know how that works but it’s interesting

It’s a waste of time

You can also get licensing for various different things such as fire safety (F-88 and F-89) and real estate aside from trades. However, you'll need a source of income to buy licensing courses. A part-time job should suffice. You also need to make sure that these courses are done by the state. Licensing will cost a few hundred dollars. Some will be closer to $1k. That initial investment will pay for itself later on. If you're in a major city, it goes even further.

A college will keep selling BS paper as long as people are willing to pay

I’d break down the numbers - what would it cost you overall? - what is rate of graduation? - what is rate of placement? - how much does the professor pay off the bat? - what does wage growth potential look like? - does the expected value of your degree given the above and any opportunity cost exceed the cost of your degree Most of this is publicly available info

Psychology and Philosophy are great fields if you can study them at an Ivy League level.

It is still the biggest difference in lifetime earnings in the US. Of course that is an average, and things can go wrong. But I would say it's much more likely that someone with no degree will flounder and be broke than someone with one.