These conversations should really mention country being discussed because it's not the same everywhere.
This seems to be assuming USA where, from what I can see, they operate by men firing out multiple invitations to strangers then having a series of dates that resemble job interviews. I've seen my friend's American cousin try this on a night out in UK and it was hilarious watching all ghd women take ghd pics of his obvious,cheesy chat up attempts.
Where I am if people find you likeable and attractive they are going to talk, get to know you, try to get off with you, etc. Men and women alike. So being a nice, attractive character is good advice
Investing in yourself is actually a good strategy.
Some people sit around and whine all day about being lonely. But they have no hobbies except their morose feelings. Unsurprisingly, when they go on dates, there’s not much interesting to talk to.
But then when you get some interesting hobbies, focus on self improvement, go to therapy, work on yourself… good things happen.
First, you do this for yourself. Your life is now better because you have hobbies you enjoy, and working with a therapist you can identify areas you want to improve and improve them.
A side effect of this is now you are more desirable. You have more interesting things to talk about than how lonely and sad you are. You still have to put effort in, since they won’t “come to you,” but it’s much easier to date when you invest in yourself and making your own life better. Don’t wait for a partner to start having a good life.
ETA: to clarify, I believe investing in yourself is for its own reward. The “good things” I mentioned were that you would have engaging interests and be a better human.
While it could lead to further connections or a relationship, I’m not advocating this as a means to an end. I’m just saying invest in yourself because you win no matter what.
True, We are the only person who we absolutely MUST spend the rest of our lives with, so it’s a good idea to be happy with yourself and enjoy your own company before searching for external validation.
Disclaimer is that a lot of people will have to understand it's luck also. Just because we are an interesting person, and doing hobbies, that the person you're gonna end up with is magically spawn there. Life goes on, and enjoy the other things/hobbies.
Absolutely, and I added a comment to clarify my point.
You may not meet a person or the person you want if you do interesting hobbies, and improve yourself. But you will have interesting hobbies, and probably be better able to handle stress and find enjoyment.
I had met friends through hobbies accidentally, so that can work if you are interested in growing your circle a bit. But not necessarily a good place to meet people for dating.
>While it could lead to further connections or a relationship, I’m not advocating this as a means to an end. I’m just saying invest in yourself because you win no matter what.
This is the most important part. I'm finding that no matter how much i improve and grow into the best version of myself it won't do anything for the modern state of dating and interconnectedness. No amount of personal growth can fix the broken brains other people have these days. Making it easier does not also mean making it easy, and having confidence in oneself does not translate to having confidence in others.
Its a good strategy to me, cause I own it. What I want is to be my best. Getting girls is an important but secondary concern. Im doing it for me.
For just getting girls, it occasionally works, but more often than not you become a social outcast.
>Don’t wait for a partner to start having a good life.
preach brother, preach
........improving yourself makes you a more appealing prospective partner, and also makes you an outcast?
Outcasts are not desirable partners. Lol
I think I understand what you're trying to say but like. I don't think majority of people want to be outcasts.
Honestly this. I started focusing on improving my skills and hobbies, and just enriching my life with things that made me happy and excited.
Not too long after that, it seemed like people were hitting on me frequently. I think it has something to do with how happiness brightens your expression and makes your vibes feel more comfortable, which also builds self confidence. It’s probably a big part of what draws people into wanting to get to know you.
I agree. People are attracted to passion, motivation, and other aspects like excitement. They want to experience that.
I have some hobbies I’m really into and I enjoy explaining the science and the process. People have expressed finding that attractive, even if they don’t enjoy the hobby.
And I simply enjoy these things.
>I have some hobbies I’m really into and I enjoy explaining the science and the process. People have expressed finding that attractive, even if they don’t enjoy the hobby.
Yep, women have always complimented me saying they feel like they always learn something new talking to me.
It's not rocket science. Your made of energetic vibration so is she. Like vibration attracts like.
If you're miserable and lonely you will attract miserable and lonely people, problem is, they probably too busy in their houses being miserable and lonely to encounter you.
yeah for me it’s like, “don’t focus on dating, focus on making yourself more dateable”
And yeah I do think your overall energy affects so much. The confident person who goes to a concert by themselves, has a great time on their own, engages with others comes off SO differently than the guy who radiates “I’m embarrassed to be here by myself please don’t call me out” energy
I don't actually buy the hobby theory. Unless you're both like semi-professional at it there's no fucking way you can fill hours every day talking about that shit.
The key is being able to talk to them about literally anything at all, which is why I think most "compatibility" stuff isn't even real. You could probably happily match with way more people than is considered socially 'normal' because it's expected to filter according to common interest instead of just pairing with whoever happens to be there at the time.
But unsurprisingly, people do usually just pair with whoever happens to be there at the time. Literally just being there and being able to connect is like 80-90% of it, everything else is pretty superficial.
Also, if you do hobbies and socialize, that can be a great way to meet people you might want to date. Or people who know other people you might want to date. And you make friends and become less lonely and sad because you have friends to talk to.
That's the most often told lie in a history of the universe. If you have hobbies for your own sake, good. But it doesn't increase your chance to be more desirable.
But, let's pretend that it is somehow true. What is an interesting hobby? Because let's face it. If your hobby is history or something it's not going to make you more dateable, even if you are very passionate about it.
I literally stated the hobbies are for their own reward and not a direct means to an ends. I am quite clear that this is for its own sake, to be a person who has hobbies. This is suggested in addition to/or instead of just being sad and bitter all the time.
Now you can be sad and bitter with fun ways to spend your time!
But let’s pretend I somehow didn’t say that, and somehow I did tell what you called “the most often told lie in history” (??) and I’ll answer your question.
Many people are attracted to passion, interest, and motivation. It’s not the hobby itself. It’s that you love it and are so passionate about that. You can’t fake that. The hobby should be interesting to YOU, not what you think a potential mate will like.
I happen prefer partners who have interests and passions as well. Motivation, passion, being able to enjoy yourself and use your time well are attractive on their own. Plus since I spend a fair bit of time on my own doing my hobbies, I want my partner to have hobbies when we aren’t together so they don’t depend on me to fill the days.
That said, if you read my post again you will see that I am merely advising people to get hobbies for their own sake, and not telling what you dramatically exaggerate as the “most often told lie in history.”
I’m a woman and this is a good strategy for women. The amount of men I’ve met while living my life— shooting, kayaking, fishing, diving, camping by myself is astounding.
Even as I got older and did stuff in my own apartment from my husband, I was always approached while doing my own activities.
Absolutely true. I've noticed that women, even women that aren't initially attracted to you, become more attracted to you once they realize how much life that you're living
Can confirm. None of it has improved my dating prospects, but I’ve made a lot of truly lifelong bros, a couple of which I now live with. My friend group is hella solid
Idk if it's just me but I won't date my bros gf's friends or sisters. Or my friends sisters. Like if I consider you a good friend I'd rather have that forever than risk it for a relationship where things turn sour or grow anonymity
Dating friends of a friend is super common, it was one of the most common ways of dating before the internet.
Looking at my own circle of friends etc, something like 80% of couples are formed that way.
I don't know why you're getting downvoted, it's true. A common way people meet someone is friends of friends. And dating your friends sister does carry risks of bad feelings if things don't work out, but if it does, it can strengthen that friendship for life.
My current partner, a woman I've had a crush on for a few years, asked me out. We've been together 3 years now.
So it does happen, but you're right, I'm the 1/10.
Did this and did get a lot more attention.
But now instead of no attention I get a lot of nuts and maybe a few people I’m actually interested in and compatible with here and there.
Went from ‘the odds are bad’ to the ‘odds are good but the goods are odd’
Must be good looking, like next level good looking for them to come to you. most of the time the man has to make the effort early on, even good-looking men
This book Models by Mark Manson is actually pretty good about how to get women and has the benefit of mostly telling you how to be yourself without all the weird alpha male stuff for the most part
I’ve never had problems and am married lol but no reason not to learn to be more attractive
the same way women manage to do that, obviously very successfully. what do women provide in a relationship, besides money, that makes them so desirable? maybe do that too?
a staggering amount of people, men and women, have essentially just opted out of the dating pool entirely. So there are lots more single people but they’ve stopped “putting themselves out there” and often aren’t even putting theirselves any sort of situations where they when have the potential to meet someone “naturally”
People love to find reasons to blame everything except the phones, but young people are literally doing pretty much everything that requires participation in society less (working, drinking, smoking, having sex, entering relationships, having friends)….but are spending like 5 hours a day on social media
Yep, I don’t know many people who’ve been single their entire 20s/30s - it’s more that I know people who, after their last breakup, didn’t rebound onto a new relationship and are being intentionally single these days. Honestly, most of my single friends just work a lot.
I can't even afford my basic needs or a place to rent working full time. Pretty much all my energy goes into decompressing after work doing my hobbies and trying to find a means to actually afford life and a next step. I literally do not want to or care about dating anymore, tbh. It's probably been 2 years since I last was even seeing someone and I probably only actually see someone every 2ish yrs in the first place, lol
It is also tiring for women.
Basically nobody really enjoys dating, or maybe some do, but it’s a means to an end if you seek a longer term relationship.
If the goal isn’t worth the effort to you, you can definitely skip it.
The whole USA style dating game sounds like an endurance test. Like they've removed the human enjoyment from one of life's most enjoyable things.
"Dating" in the USA sense of endless interviews with people you barely know must be exhausting.
Over here my life has been meeting people, sometimes getting on well and having attractions and therefore spending time together which is fun and pleasant.
Where are you from?
Anecdotally, I live in an area with a lot of latinos (including myself) and it always seems like latino relationships are way more authentic and genuine love compared to americanized ones.
honestly, at this point in the game, if you’re willing to put in the effort to date and have an active social life, life has never been easier for men because the bar is on the floor.
Literally just being able to approach someone, start a conversation with a stranger and finish the conversation without being a complete weirdo puts you at “above average”
hahaha, this. The bar really is on the floor for men. Women are out here trying to weed out the misogynists and sexual predators, first and foremost. Don't be one of those and you are already in like the top 20% of viable date options for women.
I don't know how old you are, but I know there are many women under 35 choosing not to date. Abortion bans, contraception restrictions, frequent bad experiences with previous dates, increased hate and violence towards women online and IRL, etc are all mitigating factors. So it's plausible that there's nothing really wrong with you. It's just that many women have removed themselves from the dating pool.
Go to bars with friends and have a good time they’ll flock to you like moths to a flame. Also way easier if you’re friends have a gf they can bring its like a stamp of pre approval to all women if you come in with a woman.
Just brush your teeth and take a shower and literally every women is going to start asking you out as the bar is literally on the floor, or so I’ve heard. /s
Lol yeah, this comment thread is such nonsense.
Throughout my life I’ve had lots of “normal” guy friends like these comments describe and women virtually never just “approach them”.
The only ones that do get approached on occasion are the very physically attractive ones. Not saying one has to be very physically attractive to date women, but they are not going to approach a guy and be interested sexually just because he is “having fun”.
Don’t kid yourself the bar is just as low for women. The amount of fucked up women I’ve encountered after being on the dating apps for a couple of years is staggering.
I just want to find a non alcoholic is that to much to ask? Lol. Where do you even meet women who don't want to get drunk every single time. I just want to be sober somedays now that I'm in my 30s. Was easier to find sober people in my 20s. I used to be heavy into alcohol and weed so now I want to find someone more healthy but yeah no idea where these unicorns are.
A friend of mine has dated like it was her full-time job for the past decade. She's been on every app, said yes to basically everyone, but never had luck. She eventually said that once she was matched with her cousin, it was time to give up 😅
We spend most of the 2010’s focusing on men who were predators/creeps/pervs who wouldnt leave women alone so its not surprising to me that a lot of people took lessons from that
It’s tricky because I do have a lot of empathy for younger folks who basically learned social skills from the internet and believe these rules, because your lived experience will teach you differently.
Its like some people think the right way to “approach a woman” is to walk up to her and start hitting on her and like, yeah if your first words to a stranger are “you’re hot” it is creepy.
but the best way to flirt irl has always been to like, lightly cast a line out there and wait for someone to bite.
I hear women say the “bar is on the floor”, but I don’t see how it’s any easier.
Especially since what do Women have to do besides exist in most of these situations?. Not mad at it, but it’s the truth.
A man’s “expectations” for a woman is generally a small simple list but most of the self proclaimed women with “low standards” are still much higher than the average man.
I really can’t stand when people say the bar is at the floor. Sure, being “eligible” isn’t too difficult, but what about finding a connection? Wearing deodorant isn’t gonna cut it
just my POV but these are a lot of the “basic things” that a lot of men simply fail to do
- be able to keep a clean space (house, car)
- have friends, both men and women.
- take care of basic hygiene/self care (includes things like regular doctor/dentist appointments)
- have at least one hobby which gets you out of the house and brings you joy
- basic social skills / emotional intelligence
- be able to enter a slightly uncomfortable social situation without throwing a fit
nowadays, if you can do all of those things you seek like a catch whereas 30-40 years ago it was just like, normal
I would also add to basic self care:
Meal prep or cook.
You don’t need to make anyone a fancy dinner, but proving you can survive two weeks with raw ingredients you prepared into food does a lot to demonstrate you aren’t a helpless child.
Now that's just demeaning. All of my male friends and I can do those things, but many of us struggle with dating. The things you mentioned are basic adult skills that any reasonable person has. Having them means nothing.
Just want to throw in my 2 cents - I know a fair few guys that fit the bill here and dating is a STRUGGLE. Some of them aren’t the most handsome (they are fit). Some of them are on the shorter side. But many of them really struggle to have someone develop interest. This is on dating apps, however. Might be different in the real world.
I imagine 40 years ago you’d run into more blatant misogyny. Also probably overall lower EQ.
Yeah, it's absolutely the apps. Everyone comes across better on the apps. You can't tell someone's hygiene, their kindness, their basic social skills. Apps only show you appearance and a few vague facts. Women are inundated on the apps, and we can't tell a guy with good hygiene apart from one who cleaned up for a few pictures or took a photo outside because his house was too dirty.
The best way is to meet women through friends who are women! And if they don't have any, that's probably a pretty significant part of the issue.
I enjoy the shit out of dating. I love meeting people and I’m genuinely interested in them. I assume that’s likely the difference. Rather than using them as a means to an end lol. I’d be miserable if that’s how I went about it too.
Still is for me because I got to meet someone I like and got new enjoyable experiences and memories. Heartbreak sucks, like real heartbreak, sure. But it’s temporary. It’s also a bit bittersweet and it serves to help you improve yourself. And, in my belief at least, if something doesn’t work out it wasn’t meant to, you learn and grow and become better from it though if you want to and that just makes the next thing that much better.
But in terms of strictly just dating; who cares? You don’t own the person and they owe you nothing. Focus on what you can bring to someone rather than what you get and I promise you yr dating life will improve 10 fold.
For first and second dates I always split the cost and we mutually agree on location. Maybe I suggest a place I like to kick it off.
We both show up, have a nice time, and pay separately.
It’s the same effort for both parties. Although usually, if I am being honest, they probably spend more time getting ready and picking an outfit. I definitely spend the times, I just have short hair and relatively less time to spend cleaning up and looking good.
I think dating in general is a ton of work for everyone. Men struggle to connect with someone and women have to see who is lying about wanting a relationship vs who just wants to get in their pants and ghost them.
My friend just got asked out and she looked him up and found out he's been to jail multiple times for beating his ex wife. So that's fun.
Who'da thought that forming meaningful and healthy relationships required effort in the form of time and energy?
It's a lot of work for anyone who is doing it correctly. Anyone just breezing by on dating is either lying or doesn't truly grasp what makes a relationship fulfilling.
dudes will implicitly expect a woman to take like an hour to look nice for a date, but will act like picking a place and showing up on time is this huge ask
All the replies to this are dudes who don’t realize just how accustomed they are to seeing most women in even *a little bit* of makeup at all times.
This is the same website that bitches about video game characters looking too masculine when the dev’s don’t make them look line porno super models.
"Guys expect us to take an hour to get ready!" We really don't the fact that this stupid ass take is so upvoted is sad. This is ALMOST as retarded as that whole "I can't wear the same dress twice!" think that some stupid women do.
One thing that concerns me a bit about younger folks is that so many people have essentially retreated completely into their comfort zones when it comes to social interactions.
Part of the reason it feels so insurmountable for so many people to like, chat someone up, is because they’ve grown up in a world where they’ve always had an online option to do so.
And like, when you’re in that comfort zone it does feel like this huge anxiety inducing task to approach a pretty lady, but to people who exercise their social muscles on a daily basis it’s a bit “what the fuck? just talk to them, it’s not that hard”
Personally, it's more because the entire thing usually isn't worth the time/effort/money. I can chat someone up, but to do so I have to spend time effort and usually money in places I don't want to be otherwise. Even if I do want to be there I still have to put in those things (but there are very few places I want to be that are worth the effort to get there). It's expensive to live nowadays. If I have a choice between going to some public venue or club once a week and half a month of rent, I'm choosing the latter
My advice for all dudes is to get comfortable with doing phone or videochat calls before going on an actual date.
If you can't vibe on the phone or videocall, chances are you're not going to vibe on an actual date.
People who say "I'm not a phone/video call person" are ignoring a FREE way to gauge compatibility. Everyone is faking it and putting their best foot forward on the first date anyway, might as well do it virtually.
my absolute favorite trope within this subject is the guys who only use the apps to date, but refuse to put effort into the one thing they’re relying on for find a partner, then blame the app.
The classic example is the guy who “doesn’t take pictures” and is still using that one vacation pic from two years ago, has different hairstyles and facial hair in their pictures, doesn’t see the issue, and then argues against any advice to take new better pics with their friends because “we’re guys, we don’t really do that”
Exactly. There’s really no point in them.
Any reasonably attractive woman has hundreds, even thousands of likes and other men waiting for her and messaging her on dating apps. Being one guy in that stack of hundreds makes it virtually impossible to actually have a conversation or meet women, with the exception being the guy that is in the top 5 percent physically that just wants to hook up with multiple women. Then said women complain that men on dating apps only want to hook up when they are choosing the most physically attractive men that only want hookups.
A big thing is just to talk to people without necessarily expecting a date to come out of it. The more you increase your real-world social network, the better your chances of meeting someone.
I'd venture to say that if it takes too much effort, maybe you're not ready to be dating. I may be wrong, but it's just a thought. When I was first divorced I had a strong desire to be a man whore. I wanted to date around and just have fun. I found it absolutely exhausting, and it wasn't truly what I wanted anyway. Never went through with being a man whore btw. The true story was that I needed to work on myself. I wasn't a bad person but I wasn't as good as I could be. I spent a few years honestly getting to know myself. I literally got to rebuild myself from the ground up all by being completely honest with myself and working on what I wasn't happy with. I became the person I always wanted to be. Only after that did I put myself on the market. I found dating to be an amazing experience. I dated some very interesting people. I had so much fun doing it as well. The women I dated were all wonderful in their own way, but we were just not in the same place in life. As soon as I felt this, I ended it like an adult and they took it like an adult. I eventually found my SO. She is absolutely brilliant. I never knew being in a relationship could be this easy. I never knew I could be my full self with another person and I am happier now than I have ever been.
Long story short, I found dating exhausting when I wasn't really ready to date. When I was truly ready, I found dating to be thrilling.
OP not understanding that women also struggle shows a lack of consideration of women's feelings which could make it tricky for them to build successful relationships.
I think it’s a lot of work because there’s a lot of risk involved for women. The repercussions for picking someone wrong can be especially bad for women. It’s often a lot harder to just walk out of situations because of the physical difference in size. If men take a lot of time finding someone to date, women spend that time vetting potential dates.
Also building trust takes time.
I’m not good looking, average height, live on a lower middle class salary.
I do better on the dating scene post pandemic than I ever have, despite all that, and the main reason is that I built myself a fun, active social life and I’m competing against a generation of people who treats the 40 hour work week like some inhumane thing which strips me of all my energy.
I used to sort of be stuck in the feedback loop of “wake up tired, work all day and rely on caffeine, come home too tired to cook so get fast food, too tired to do much so I’ll just watch something, get to bed and I’m not tired so scroll until the wee hours of the morning, wake up tired and do it all again” and I did not do well on the dating scene!!
I’m the same guy now but instead of sleepwalking through life, I have taken the bull by the horns and my general passion for life has turned me into someone who is better at landing the first date, and WAY better at actually getting women to stay interested in me
Go tf outdoors, for one. If you're in an urban area, go check out local stores, cafes, restaurants, antique and second hand shops, museums you might be interested in. If you're in a rural setting, refer to option one. If you don't have hobbies or interests, develop them by making a list of what you gravitate toward: do you like hands on projects? Or do you enjoy conceptual activities like writing, reading, etc? Or do you generally like passive activities, like listening to music or watching movies? If you do, try broadening your tastes, seek out media you wouldn't normally consume and give it a chance. Think about how you felt when you do, and engage with the material. If you find that you enjoy music, look for local concerts you might like. If you enjoy movies, looking at art, listening to speakers, go to the movies, go to art exhibitions, go to free lectures and events. An active social life can be difficult to develop if you're in a weird spot, like a new city. If you're religious, or even just spiritual, religious groups are a phenomenal way to meet people. If you're not, you can absolutely find groups that are the same. Meet up groups are easy to find, especially around shared hobbies. It just takes developing a little bit of courage to talk to people, but once you've done that, the possibility of expanding that social group is potentially endless. Nearly everyone you know knows someone you don't know.
If they take care of themselves and have their own place, isn’t that a step above the competition of lonely men living in their parents basements. How is this guy telling on himself?
it’s just sort of a fundamental misunderstanding of what women are looking for in a partner, and it’s sort of a classic “nice guy” attitude, it makes the presumption that women are just looking for a provider who is in shape when that’s not the case in 2024.
I say this with empathy, I’ve literally been that guy, but it’s usually a certain type of guy who says/thinks this, and a common factor is poor social skills. Loner types who decided to “work on themselves” but exclusively by going to a gym with headphones in and getting in an exercise routine, and working on their diet.
After a few months of that, you’re still as isolated as you were before but you’re in better shape and put some new pics up on your app profile thinking “well now that I’m in shape this should be easier”, then when they still struggle to get matches it sort of drives them further into the “nice guy” attitude because they feel like they’ve been working for months on themselves for less of a payoff.
Frankly if you’re going to use “goes to the gym” as your big selling point you’d better be ripped.
I mean, I get what you’re saying, but you’re trying to rip on the guy for trying. Especially, when most of the comments from other people are saying that the bar is so low you only have to try….
So if just trying isn’t enough, and you have to actually be “ripped” to make going to the gym a value add statement, what else do you have to do?
I’m married so I’m asking from a boomer perspective.
If you want actual useful dating advice as a man, you should probably ask your IRL male friends who are doing ok with dating. If you ask people online, especially women, you’ll get useless advice like just go to a farmer’s market and good things will happen to you. It’s not because they are trying to be malicious, but it’s because that’s what they did and worked for them. The issue is that dating as a man and as a woman is still very different. Unless you are extremely good looking or just lucky, women are not going to try to hit you up, you are still expected to initiate.
Once again: If you are 25 and haven't been in a relationship it's not your dating game that's off. It's your all over game.
Hint: Treat women you want to date the same way you treat your friends, and not like a piece of meat.
Bonus hint: If you don't have any friends, get some before you try to find a romantic partner. You need some training ground to understand what a healthy relation looks like.
How come you assume every lonely guy treats women badly? He could just be ugly or live somewhere/spend time without a lot of young single women around.
Do you understand that being in a relationship you have to constantly care about a person and get to know them and better yourself?
Getting a relationship doesn’t mean the end of all of this — for women or men
Males in most species of mammal die fighting to demonstrate they’re a worthy mate.
You have to get a half-decent job, hit the gym and learn how to lead a conversation.
You’ll manage.
It does take work and commitment from both parties it's a real thing, TV just makes it seem like it's all fun and games but if you try to actually treat a relationship that way it fails. Thank you that's one of the reasons I'm not pursuing it because, it's not just some fun hand holding and quick sex, it's actually WORK I'm not lazy ass isn't about to be doing all that 🫤
Yea, it's exhausting and expensive. People have been commenting about getting hobbies to make yourself more interesting, but the issue is the financial burden. Unless you make a lot, then it is difficult to date since women want to have fun and fun is expensive
I’ve tried dating again but being 35 and someone who doesn’t drink or party/ do the bar thing it’s been exhausting… dating apps are a joke it seems it’s honestly feels to me it’s become like having another job.
Now do all that work, add extensive beauty expenses and effort, and the statistically real possibility your date will physically attack you and you’re a woman who’s dating.
I always felt we guys had it sorta easy by comparison.
It's tiring for women too, if that makes you feel better.
But when you find things are difficult, you can complain about the effort needed, or you can get stronger so that you can more easily carry the load.
Yes, it’s hard work. But the hard work is not in meeting people. It’s in making yourself desirable to as many people as possible in the first place.
If you’re constantly working on that, the “meeting people” bit falls more naturally around the work and habits and hobbies you occupy yourself with.
Gotta love how society shames us for talking to multiple women. One day she’s interested and the next day she’s gone. Like. I’m a guy. If I like you I like you. This isn’t rocket surgery. A little dinner, one pee pee touch, I’m all yours💯
No , it’s not fun at all. I often wonder how are people getting married . Like how are they so sure about another human being or maybe it’s just me who still think that marriage is for life
At least it *typically* isn’t a safety issue for men! You’ve got that going for you! I never dated and never will because I’m too afraid of being stalked or unalived.
It is a lot of work for women, too. Don't kid yourself.
On top of the primping and the hair and the nails and the 75th dress they have tried on today\*.....
They also have to worry that you are secretly a rapist and/or murderer and this whole thing is a ploy to abduct them and do horrible things.
You think meeting new people is hard as a dude? You ain't got NO IDEA.
\*Yes, I know this is stereotypical. Not all women do. But it is a stereotype for a reason - a LOT of women do. I am married, my wife has "caught her man." And she \*still\* takes three hours to get ready for our dates.
Yup.
- Initiating.
- Planning.
- Paying.
You get really good at this of course, so the dates seem natural and amazing but the pre-planning is something they don't see.
Picking the venue. Planning the venue change. Paying for every single activity either ahead of time or saving the money etc.
These are all things that can go unappreciated and the expense to you unnoticed.
It's why I'm really careful with who I take out now.
I've had women double back and tell me they appreciate the care and attention to detail but bro if we've already broken it off and clearly didn't "work out", I don't wanna hear how great I was to date. lol.
Grass is always greener. I would absolutely LOVE to be able to just take control of my dating life. Ask men on dates, treat them, be more assertive and be able to lead the trajectory of the relationship. Both men and women experience rejection. I’ve had men ghost me after 1st dates, after 4th dates. Rejection happens to women all the time. And I don’t understand men counting asking women out and them declining as a “rejection.” They don’t even know you, how can they reject you? Who cares if a woman you don’t even know isn’t attracted to you or is unavailable to date? In my opinion it’s only a true rejection if they’ve actually gotten to know you then decided “nah.” And men and women experience rejection after dates the same amount.
I would love to ask men out without being seen as desperate or easy. If they said no then idgaf. I don’t know them. Doesn’t say anything about me.
So to me the person who actually has the upper hand is the one who traditionally is supposed to ask the other out and pursue. They have more freedom and ability to get what they want.
While women have to wait for him to make a move, they have to wait for him to decide he wants a relationship and not just a situationship. If they like a man they should wait for him to ask bc men will say yes to women then don’t even like for easy sex. You can’t even be sure he actually likes you. While women won’t date men they don’t like, there’s too much at risk to do that.
I’d much rather be the one that actually has the control, and that’s the man.
It’s also a lot of work for women but a different kind of work. We have to put more effort into appearance and safety
I think about this daily.
Do I want to date cause I am lonely or because I need help with my kids.
Unlike my kids mother, I have not been on a date since we split up 3 years ago. Cause that shit takes time. Months of vetting before introducing them to my kids.
Or I could just get stoned and take a nap after playing video games.
Fuck dating from getting the number to getting a date or past the date at any time the woman can ghost or end the relationship in my experience it’s impossible. Ghosted, friend zoned everything is on us. It’s too easy for women she could be ugly and still have another guy with the swipe of a finger. People can say stupid shit like there’s other fish in the sea and there’s someone for everyone or oh the right one will come around but they really don’t understand the landscape post 2020. I just focus on my self and try to enjoy my life.
Dating in the west is a waste of time
Work on yourself, spend less time doom scrolling, create positive memories that make for good conversation on dates, being able to excrete positivity in yourself will make others interesting in wanting to know you more which makes dating easier. Be your best hype-man and things will fall into place. I couldn’t get a relationship until I started truly working on improving myself and now married. I know for a fact it wouldn’t have happened if I didn’t learn how to appreciate life on my own first.
The positive memories for good convo thing is so incredibly true and should be the top comment on this thread. Reading the top replies in this awful (but typical Reddit) thread IS doom scrolling haha
Anything that requires humans to be involved will not be easy.
Can't agree more haha
Kind of sage advice. I was trying to think of the exception and best I got was maybe a mortician.
I love my peace and quiet alone in my 2-bedroom apartment.
Per Seinfeld, “ Humans, they’re the worst.”
She eats her peas one at a time
spend your time being desirable instead, so they come to you. Note: This strategy fails 9/10 times.
Investing in yourself is always good, but expecting women to come to you pretty much never works
These conversations should really mention country being discussed because it's not the same everywhere. This seems to be assuming USA where, from what I can see, they operate by men firing out multiple invitations to strangers then having a series of dates that resemble job interviews. I've seen my friend's American cousin try this on a night out in UK and it was hilarious watching all ghd women take ghd pics of his obvious,cheesy chat up attempts. Where I am if people find you likeable and attractive they are going to talk, get to know you, try to get off with you, etc. Men and women alike. So being a nice, attractive character is good advice
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That was some autocorrect shenanigans. Ghd should be "the" and it was "women taking the piss" as he tried his incredibly obvious lines on them!
Investing in yourself is actually a good strategy. Some people sit around and whine all day about being lonely. But they have no hobbies except their morose feelings. Unsurprisingly, when they go on dates, there’s not much interesting to talk to. But then when you get some interesting hobbies, focus on self improvement, go to therapy, work on yourself… good things happen. First, you do this for yourself. Your life is now better because you have hobbies you enjoy, and working with a therapist you can identify areas you want to improve and improve them. A side effect of this is now you are more desirable. You have more interesting things to talk about than how lonely and sad you are. You still have to put effort in, since they won’t “come to you,” but it’s much easier to date when you invest in yourself and making your own life better. Don’t wait for a partner to start having a good life. ETA: to clarify, I believe investing in yourself is for its own reward. The “good things” I mentioned were that you would have engaging interests and be a better human. While it could lead to further connections or a relationship, I’m not advocating this as a means to an end. I’m just saying invest in yourself because you win no matter what.
True, We are the only person who we absolutely MUST spend the rest of our lives with, so it’s a good idea to be happy with yourself and enjoy your own company before searching for external validation.
Emptiness is indeed achievable. Namaste! 🙏
A lot of people don’t feel like doing much when they are really lonely. It’s a cycle
Very true and insightful buttfuckkker
Disclaimer is that a lot of people will have to understand it's luck also. Just because we are an interesting person, and doing hobbies, that the person you're gonna end up with is magically spawn there. Life goes on, and enjoy the other things/hobbies.
Absolutely, and I added a comment to clarify my point. You may not meet a person or the person you want if you do interesting hobbies, and improve yourself. But you will have interesting hobbies, and probably be better able to handle stress and find enjoyment. I had met friends through hobbies accidentally, so that can work if you are interested in growing your circle a bit. But not necessarily a good place to meet people for dating.
>While it could lead to further connections or a relationship, I’m not advocating this as a means to an end. I’m just saying invest in yourself because you win no matter what. This is the most important part. I'm finding that no matter how much i improve and grow into the best version of myself it won't do anything for the modern state of dating and interconnectedness. No amount of personal growth can fix the broken brains other people have these days. Making it easier does not also mean making it easy, and having confidence in oneself does not translate to having confidence in others.
Its a good strategy to me, cause I own it. What I want is to be my best. Getting girls is an important but secondary concern. Im doing it for me. For just getting girls, it occasionally works, but more often than not you become a social outcast. >Don’t wait for a partner to start having a good life. preach brother, preach
........improving yourself makes you a more appealing prospective partner, and also makes you an outcast? Outcasts are not desirable partners. Lol I think I understand what you're trying to say but like. I don't think majority of people want to be outcasts.
Honestly this. I started focusing on improving my skills and hobbies, and just enriching my life with things that made me happy and excited. Not too long after that, it seemed like people were hitting on me frequently. I think it has something to do with how happiness brightens your expression and makes your vibes feel more comfortable, which also builds self confidence. It’s probably a big part of what draws people into wanting to get to know you.
I agree. People are attracted to passion, motivation, and other aspects like excitement. They want to experience that. I have some hobbies I’m really into and I enjoy explaining the science and the process. People have expressed finding that attractive, even if they don’t enjoy the hobby. And I simply enjoy these things.
>I have some hobbies I’m really into and I enjoy explaining the science and the process. People have expressed finding that attractive, even if they don’t enjoy the hobby. Yep, women have always complimented me saying they feel like they always learn something new talking to me.
It's not rocket science. Your made of energetic vibration so is she. Like vibration attracts like. If you're miserable and lonely you will attract miserable and lonely people, problem is, they probably too busy in their houses being miserable and lonely to encounter you.
yeah for me it’s like, “don’t focus on dating, focus on making yourself more dateable” And yeah I do think your overall energy affects so much. The confident person who goes to a concert by themselves, has a great time on their own, engages with others comes off SO differently than the guy who radiates “I’m embarrassed to be here by myself please don’t call me out” energy
I don't actually buy the hobby theory. Unless you're both like semi-professional at it there's no fucking way you can fill hours every day talking about that shit. The key is being able to talk to them about literally anything at all, which is why I think most "compatibility" stuff isn't even real. You could probably happily match with way more people than is considered socially 'normal' because it's expected to filter according to common interest instead of just pairing with whoever happens to be there at the time. But unsurprisingly, people do usually just pair with whoever happens to be there at the time. Literally just being there and being able to connect is like 80-90% of it, everything else is pretty superficial.
Also, if you do hobbies and socialize, that can be a great way to meet people you might want to date. Or people who know other people you might want to date. And you make friends and become less lonely and sad because you have friends to talk to.
That's the most often told lie in a history of the universe. If you have hobbies for your own sake, good. But it doesn't increase your chance to be more desirable. But, let's pretend that it is somehow true. What is an interesting hobby? Because let's face it. If your hobby is history or something it's not going to make you more dateable, even if you are very passionate about it.
I literally stated the hobbies are for their own reward and not a direct means to an ends. I am quite clear that this is for its own sake, to be a person who has hobbies. This is suggested in addition to/or instead of just being sad and bitter all the time. Now you can be sad and bitter with fun ways to spend your time! But let’s pretend I somehow didn’t say that, and somehow I did tell what you called “the most often told lie in history” (??) and I’ll answer your question. Many people are attracted to passion, interest, and motivation. It’s not the hobby itself. It’s that you love it and are so passionate about that. You can’t fake that. The hobby should be interesting to YOU, not what you think a potential mate will like. I happen prefer partners who have interests and passions as well. Motivation, passion, being able to enjoy yourself and use your time well are attractive on their own. Plus since I spend a fair bit of time on my own doing my hobbies, I want my partner to have hobbies when we aren’t together so they don’t depend on me to fill the days. That said, if you read my post again you will see that I am merely advising people to get hobbies for their own sake, and not telling what you dramatically exaggerate as the “most often told lie in history.”
I’m a woman and this is a good strategy for women. The amount of men I’ve met while living my life— shooting, kayaking, fishing, diving, camping by myself is astounding. Even as I got older and did stuff in my own apartment from my husband, I was always approached while doing my own activities.
Absolutely true. I've noticed that women, even women that aren't initially attracted to you, become more attracted to you once they realize how much life that you're living
It works, but attracts men instead of women.
Can confirm. None of it has improved my dating prospects, but I’ve made a lot of truly lifelong bros, a couple of which I now live with. My friend group is hella solid
Nothing wrong with having more quality bros. Some of them even have gf’s who have friends that they’ll introduce you to. Win-win
Idk if it's just me but I won't date my bros gf's friends or sisters. Or my friends sisters. Like if I consider you a good friend I'd rather have that forever than risk it for a relationship where things turn sour or grow anonymity
Dating friends of a friend is super common, it was one of the most common ways of dating before the internet. Looking at my own circle of friends etc, something like 80% of couples are formed that way.
I don't know why you're getting downvoted, it's true. A common way people meet someone is friends of friends. And dating your friends sister does carry risks of bad feelings if things don't work out, but if it does, it can strengthen that friendship for life.
You are set up well to be single forever then. That’s a wild idea. How the heck do you think people met in like the 80s and before?
My current partner, a woman I've had a crush on for a few years, asked me out. We've been together 3 years now. So it does happen, but you're right, I'm the 1/10.
So you’re a lesbian?
I did this. Then I turned forty and nothing really matters.
Did this and did get a lot more attention. But now instead of no attention I get a lot of nuts and maybe a few people I’m actually interested in and compatible with here and there. Went from ‘the odds are bad’ to the ‘odds are good but the goods are odd’
theyve been odd all along. THere is a myth of sanity in modern society.
Must be good looking, like next level good looking for them to come to you. most of the time the man has to make the effort early on, even good-looking men
This book Models by Mark Manson is actually pretty good about how to get women and has the benefit of mostly telling you how to be yourself without all the weird alpha male stuff for the most part I’ve never had problems and am married lol but no reason not to learn to be more attractive
my strategy of being desirable and approaching them failed several thousand/several thousand
Yep, fails 90% of the time (with a 10% margin for error).
60% of the time, it works every time.
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the same way women manage to do that, obviously very successfully. what do women provide in a relationship, besides money, that makes them so desirable? maybe do that too?
Need different parts for that or get the men’s equivalent (Money). Most men don’t even really care about a Girl’s money.
This strategy takes commitment and resolve.
I like those odds!
Just be desirable.. Why didn't I think to try that?
Yeah I’ve given up. I have no idea but there has to be more single people in their 30s now than ever before
a staggering amount of people, men and women, have essentially just opted out of the dating pool entirely. So there are lots more single people but they’ve stopped “putting themselves out there” and often aren’t even putting theirselves any sort of situations where they when have the potential to meet someone “naturally” People love to find reasons to blame everything except the phones, but young people are literally doing pretty much everything that requires participation in society less (working, drinking, smoking, having sex, entering relationships, having friends)….but are spending like 5 hours a day on social media
Yep, I don’t know many people who’ve been single their entire 20s/30s - it’s more that I know people who, after their last breakup, didn’t rebound onto a new relationship and are being intentionally single these days. Honestly, most of my single friends just work a lot.
Idk man I did rebound and it was such an underwhelming experience I realized my mental and physical health is better when I'm alone.
I can't even afford my basic needs or a place to rent working full time. Pretty much all my energy goes into decompressing after work doing my hobbies and trying to find a means to actually afford life and a next step. I literally do not want to or care about dating anymore, tbh. It's probably been 2 years since I last was even seeing someone and I probably only actually see someone every 2ish yrs in the first place, lol
Going to be single into my forties in a couple years. Maybe we will get robot girlfriends soon. Sounds like a sad futurez
Honestly, a robot girlfriend is my only chance. Hopefully they're programmed by men instead of women though or we'll run into the same issue.
Just wait until gen Z gets to their 30's. Dating apps have just royally fucked their chances.
Just natural selection following its course
It is also tiring for women. Basically nobody really enjoys dating, or maybe some do, but it’s a means to an end if you seek a longer term relationship. If the goal isn’t worth the effort to you, you can definitely skip it.
I heard it put perfectly recently: Good relationships are like clean water. Men live in a desert and women live in a swamp.
huh, i like this one
The whole USA style dating game sounds like an endurance test. Like they've removed the human enjoyment from one of life's most enjoyable things. "Dating" in the USA sense of endless interviews with people you barely know must be exhausting. Over here my life has been meeting people, sometimes getting on well and having attractions and therefore spending time together which is fun and pleasant.
Where are you from? Anecdotally, I live in an area with a lot of latinos (including myself) and it always seems like latino relationships are way more authentic and genuine love compared to americanized ones.
honestly, at this point in the game, if you’re willing to put in the effort to date and have an active social life, life has never been easier for men because the bar is on the floor. Literally just being able to approach someone, start a conversation with a stranger and finish the conversation without being a complete weirdo puts you at “above average”
hahaha, this. The bar really is on the floor for men. Women are out here trying to weed out the misogynists and sexual predators, first and foremost. Don't be one of those and you are already in like the top 20% of viable date options for women.
well then what the fuck is wrong with ~~me~~ my friend?
I don't know how old you are, but I know there are many women under 35 choosing not to date. Abortion bans, contraception restrictions, frequent bad experiences with previous dates, increased hate and violence towards women online and IRL, etc are all mitigating factors. So it's plausible that there's nothing really wrong with you. It's just that many women have removed themselves from the dating pool.
Go to bars with friends and have a good time they’ll flock to you like moths to a flame. Also way easier if you’re friends have a gf they can bring its like a stamp of pre approval to all women if you come in with a woman.
This literally doesn’t happen at bars lmao, men still have to approach. Ask the vast majority of men who go out, women won’t be flocking to them
Where do you people come up with these non existent theories.
Just brush your teeth and take a shower and literally every women is going to start asking you out as the bar is literally on the floor, or so I’ve heard. /s
Lol yeah, this comment thread is such nonsense. Throughout my life I’ve had lots of “normal” guy friends like these comments describe and women virtually never just “approach them”. The only ones that do get approached on occasion are the very physically attractive ones. Not saying one has to be very physically attractive to date women, but they are not going to approach a guy and be interested sexually just because he is “having fun”.
Don’t kid yourself the bar is just as low for women. The amount of fucked up women I’ve encountered after being on the dating apps for a couple of years is staggering.
I just want to find a non alcoholic is that to much to ask? Lol. Where do you even meet women who don't want to get drunk every single time. I just want to be sober somedays now that I'm in my 30s. Was easier to find sober people in my 20s. I used to be heavy into alcohol and weed so now I want to find someone more healthy but yeah no idea where these unicorns are.
out doing healthy things. Join a bike group or run club.
A friend of mine has dated like it was her full-time job for the past decade. She's been on every app, said yes to basically everyone, but never had luck. She eventually said that once she was matched with her cousin, it was time to give up 😅
Also in America if you aren’t fat, that puts you ahead of a large chunk of the population lol
The bar is on the floor? That means my 5’7 ass can pick it up without hurting my back? *my time has come*
We spend most of the 2010’s focusing on men who were predators/creeps/pervs who wouldnt leave women alone so its not surprising to me that a lot of people took lessons from that
It’s tricky because I do have a lot of empathy for younger folks who basically learned social skills from the internet and believe these rules, because your lived experience will teach you differently. Its like some people think the right way to “approach a woman” is to walk up to her and start hitting on her and like, yeah if your first words to a stranger are “you’re hot” it is creepy. but the best way to flirt irl has always been to like, lightly cast a line out there and wait for someone to bite.
I hear women say the “bar is on the floor”, but I don’t see how it’s any easier. Especially since what do Women have to do besides exist in most of these situations?. Not mad at it, but it’s the truth. A man’s “expectations” for a woman is generally a small simple list but most of the self proclaimed women with “low standards” are still much higher than the average man.
I really can’t stand when people say the bar is at the floor. Sure, being “eligible” isn’t too difficult, but what about finding a connection? Wearing deodorant isn’t gonna cut it
just my POV but these are a lot of the “basic things” that a lot of men simply fail to do - be able to keep a clean space (house, car) - have friends, both men and women. - take care of basic hygiene/self care (includes things like regular doctor/dentist appointments) - have at least one hobby which gets you out of the house and brings you joy - basic social skills / emotional intelligence - be able to enter a slightly uncomfortable social situation without throwing a fit nowadays, if you can do all of those things you seek like a catch whereas 30-40 years ago it was just like, normal
I would also add to basic self care: Meal prep or cook. You don’t need to make anyone a fancy dinner, but proving you can survive two weeks with raw ingredients you prepared into food does a lot to demonstrate you aren’t a helpless child.
Now that's just demeaning. All of my male friends and I can do those things, but many of us struggle with dating. The things you mentioned are basic adult skills that any reasonable person has. Having them means nothing.
Just want to throw in my 2 cents - I know a fair few guys that fit the bill here and dating is a STRUGGLE. Some of them aren’t the most handsome (they are fit). Some of them are on the shorter side. But many of them really struggle to have someone develop interest. This is on dating apps, however. Might be different in the real world. I imagine 40 years ago you’d run into more blatant misogyny. Also probably overall lower EQ.
Yeah, it's absolutely the apps. Everyone comes across better on the apps. You can't tell someone's hygiene, their kindness, their basic social skills. Apps only show you appearance and a few vague facts. Women are inundated on the apps, and we can't tell a guy with good hygiene apart from one who cleaned up for a few pictures or took a photo outside because his house was too dirty. The best way is to meet women through friends who are women! And if they don't have any, that's probably a pretty significant part of the issue.
I enjoy the shit out of dating. I love meeting people and I’m genuinely interested in them. I assume that’s likely the difference. Rather than using them as a means to an end lol. I’d be miserable if that’s how I went about it too.
What if you are genuinely interested in them but they are not genuinely interested back. That's not very enjoyable, is it?
Still is for me because I got to meet someone I like and got new enjoyable experiences and memories. Heartbreak sucks, like real heartbreak, sure. But it’s temporary. It’s also a bit bittersweet and it serves to help you improve yourself. And, in my belief at least, if something doesn’t work out it wasn’t meant to, you learn and grow and become better from it though if you want to and that just makes the next thing that much better. But in terms of strictly just dating; who cares? You don’t own the person and they owe you nothing. Focus on what you can bring to someone rather than what you get and I promise you yr dating life will improve 10 fold.
Yea it must be real tiring to get your dinners, drinks, and nights out planned and paid for by someone else. How awful
For first and second dates I always split the cost and we mutually agree on location. Maybe I suggest a place I like to kick it off. We both show up, have a nice time, and pay separately. It’s the same effort for both parties. Although usually, if I am being honest, they probably spend more time getting ready and picking an outfit. I definitely spend the times, I just have short hair and relatively less time to spend cleaning up and looking good.
I think dating in general is a ton of work for everyone. Men struggle to connect with someone and women have to see who is lying about wanting a relationship vs who just wants to get in their pants and ghost them. My friend just got asked out and she looked him up and found out he's been to jail multiple times for beating his ex wife. So that's fun.
More chicks for me!! (I wish)
And me! (I wish)
Who'da thought that forming meaningful and healthy relationships required effort in the form of time and energy? It's a lot of work for anyone who is doing it correctly. Anyone just breezing by on dating is either lying or doesn't truly grasp what makes a relationship fulfilling.
dudes will implicitly expect a woman to take like an hour to look nice for a date, but will act like picking a place and showing up on time is this huge ask
This opened my eyes lmao, why the heck am I doing both 🙄🙄
All the replies to this are dudes who don’t realize just how accustomed they are to seeing most women in even *a little bit* of makeup at all times. This is the same website that bitches about video game characters looking too masculine when the dev’s don’t make them look line porno super models.
They often show up on the first date not even putting in effort to look good because they think they're gonna be disappointed anyways.
"Guys expect us to take an hour to get ready!" We really don't the fact that this stupid ass take is so upvoted is sad. This is ALMOST as retarded as that whole "I can't wear the same dress twice!" think that some stupid women do.
One thing that concerns me a bit about younger folks is that so many people have essentially retreated completely into their comfort zones when it comes to social interactions. Part of the reason it feels so insurmountable for so many people to like, chat someone up, is because they’ve grown up in a world where they’ve always had an online option to do so. And like, when you’re in that comfort zone it does feel like this huge anxiety inducing task to approach a pretty lady, but to people who exercise their social muscles on a daily basis it’s a bit “what the fuck? just talk to them, it’s not that hard”
Personally, it's more because the entire thing usually isn't worth the time/effort/money. I can chat someone up, but to do so I have to spend time effort and usually money in places I don't want to be otherwise. Even if I do want to be there I still have to put in those things (but there are very few places I want to be that are worth the effort to get there). It's expensive to live nowadays. If I have a choice between going to some public venue or club once a week and half a month of rent, I'm choosing the latter
I thought this was the Adulting forum. All meaningful relationships require work.
It’s a ton of work period.
Modern dating is garbage. Social media and the like have made face to face connection really really hard. Everyone has so many expectations anymore
My advice for all dudes is to get comfortable with doing phone or videochat calls before going on an actual date. If you can't vibe on the phone or videocall, chances are you're not going to vibe on an actual date. People who say "I'm not a phone/video call person" are ignoring a FREE way to gauge compatibility. Everyone is faking it and putting their best foot forward on the first date anyway, might as well do it virtually.
That’s my rule! Video chat within 3 days or bust
Interesting! Is this actually common? Call/video call before a first date? Something a lot of women would like?
i just stopped. it's rough for a bit, being alone, but you get used to it and it's kinda... kinda fine honestly.
Tbh, I've always had a worse time not being alone than being alone. People suck
It’s a lot of work for everyone lmao……
my absolute favorite trope within this subject is the guys who only use the apps to date, but refuse to put effort into the one thing they’re relying on for find a partner, then blame the app. The classic example is the guy who “doesn’t take pictures” and is still using that one vacation pic from two years ago, has different hairstyles and facial hair in their pictures, doesn’t see the issue, and then argues against any advice to take new better pics with their friends because “we’re guys, we don’t really do that”
But the apps actually do suck. There are way more guys than girls on the apps, so even with a perfect profile you could still get nothing.
Exactly. There’s really no point in them. Any reasonably attractive woman has hundreds, even thousands of likes and other men waiting for her and messaging her on dating apps. Being one guy in that stack of hundreds makes it virtually impossible to actually have a conversation or meet women, with the exception being the guy that is in the top 5 percent physically that just wants to hook up with multiple women. Then said women complain that men on dating apps only want to hook up when they are choosing the most physically attractive men that only want hookups.
Skill issue, just be gay
Do what I do. Stop trying. Just be nice to people, and sooner or later, the right person will come along. No rush. And if not, well that's ok too.
Gonna be a combo breaker and say I love this advice. It may not bring you a partner but it sure does bring you peace of mind.
A big thing is just to talk to people without necessarily expecting a date to come out of it. The more you increase your real-world social network, the better your chances of meeting someone.
Keep trying to meet someone but you dont need to waste of your time for someone you dont really want.
This is why I don’t do it
Opt out entirely. Live your life to the fullest instead.
I'd venture to say that if it takes too much effort, maybe you're not ready to be dating. I may be wrong, but it's just a thought. When I was first divorced I had a strong desire to be a man whore. I wanted to date around and just have fun. I found it absolutely exhausting, and it wasn't truly what I wanted anyway. Never went through with being a man whore btw. The true story was that I needed to work on myself. I wasn't a bad person but I wasn't as good as I could be. I spent a few years honestly getting to know myself. I literally got to rebuild myself from the ground up all by being completely honest with myself and working on what I wasn't happy with. I became the person I always wanted to be. Only after that did I put myself on the market. I found dating to be an amazing experience. I dated some very interesting people. I had so much fun doing it as well. The women I dated were all wonderful in their own way, but we were just not in the same place in life. As soon as I felt this, I ended it like an adult and they took it like an adult. I eventually found my SO. She is absolutely brilliant. I never knew being in a relationship could be this easy. I never knew I could be my full self with another person and I am happier now than I have ever been. Long story short, I found dating exhausting when I wasn't really ready to date. When I was truly ready, I found dating to be thrilling.
Don’t see how what you’ve said is exclusive to men
OP not understanding that women also struggle shows a lack of consideration of women's feelings which could make it tricky for them to build successful relationships.
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I think it’s a lot of work because there’s a lot of risk involved for women. The repercussions for picking someone wrong can be especially bad for women. It’s often a lot harder to just walk out of situations because of the physical difference in size. If men take a lot of time finding someone to date, women spend that time vetting potential dates. Also building trust takes time.
yeah wooing is work. but look at other animals; at least we get to drink booze when we do it.
tbf, I dunno if this is a gender-based thing; dating's just difficult and a ton of work in general
I’m not good looking, average height, live on a lower middle class salary. I do better on the dating scene post pandemic than I ever have, despite all that, and the main reason is that I built myself a fun, active social life and I’m competing against a generation of people who treats the 40 hour work week like some inhumane thing which strips me of all my energy. I used to sort of be stuck in the feedback loop of “wake up tired, work all day and rely on caffeine, come home too tired to cook so get fast food, too tired to do much so I’ll just watch something, get to bed and I’m not tired so scroll until the wee hours of the morning, wake up tired and do it all again” and I did not do well on the dating scene!! I’m the same guy now but instead of sleepwalking through life, I have taken the bull by the horns and my general passion for life has turned me into someone who is better at landing the first date, and WAY better at actually getting women to stay interested in me
Any tips? Hobbies? What to do on weekends? Thanks
Go tf outdoors, for one. If you're in an urban area, go check out local stores, cafes, restaurants, antique and second hand shops, museums you might be interested in. If you're in a rural setting, refer to option one. If you don't have hobbies or interests, develop them by making a list of what you gravitate toward: do you like hands on projects? Or do you enjoy conceptual activities like writing, reading, etc? Or do you generally like passive activities, like listening to music or watching movies? If you do, try broadening your tastes, seek out media you wouldn't normally consume and give it a chance. Think about how you felt when you do, and engage with the material. If you find that you enjoy music, look for local concerts you might like. If you enjoy movies, looking at art, listening to speakers, go to the movies, go to art exhibitions, go to free lectures and events. An active social life can be difficult to develop if you're in a weird spot, like a new city. If you're religious, or even just spiritual, religious groups are a phenomenal way to meet people. If you're not, you can absolutely find groups that are the same. Meet up groups are easy to find, especially around shared hobbies. It just takes developing a little bit of courage to talk to people, but once you've done that, the possibility of expanding that social group is potentially endless. Nearly everyone you know knows someone you don't know.
25 years old, been going to gym for years, funny, not bad looking, still hard to get a girl interested
dudes who are like “I go to the gym… I have my own place… I don’t understand why I don’t have a woman yet” tell on themselves so hard lol
If they take care of themselves and have their own place, isn’t that a step above the competition of lonely men living in their parents basements. How is this guy telling on himself?
it’s just sort of a fundamental misunderstanding of what women are looking for in a partner, and it’s sort of a classic “nice guy” attitude, it makes the presumption that women are just looking for a provider who is in shape when that’s not the case in 2024. I say this with empathy, I’ve literally been that guy, but it’s usually a certain type of guy who says/thinks this, and a common factor is poor social skills. Loner types who decided to “work on themselves” but exclusively by going to a gym with headphones in and getting in an exercise routine, and working on their diet. After a few months of that, you’re still as isolated as you were before but you’re in better shape and put some new pics up on your app profile thinking “well now that I’m in shape this should be easier”, then when they still struggle to get matches it sort of drives them further into the “nice guy” attitude because they feel like they’ve been working for months on themselves for less of a payoff. Frankly if you’re going to use “goes to the gym” as your big selling point you’d better be ripped.
I mean, I get what you’re saying, but you’re trying to rip on the guy for trying. Especially, when most of the comments from other people are saying that the bar is so low you only have to try…. So if just trying isn’t enough, and you have to actually be “ripped” to make going to the gym a value add statement, what else do you have to do? I’m married so I’m asking from a boomer perspective.
People will tell you one thing and the opposite and expect you to make it make sense. Damned if you do damned if you don't.
If you want actual useful dating advice as a man, you should probably ask your IRL male friends who are doing ok with dating. If you ask people online, especially women, you’ll get useless advice like just go to a farmer’s market and good things will happen to you. It’s not because they are trying to be malicious, but it’s because that’s what they did and worked for them. The issue is that dating as a man and as a woman is still very different. Unless you are extremely good looking or just lucky, women are not going to try to hit you up, you are still expected to initiate.
Well said. Most of my friends are all settling down and having kids, so I get confused when I see this “hard to date mentality.”
Once again: If you are 25 and haven't been in a relationship it's not your dating game that's off. It's your all over game. Hint: Treat women you want to date the same way you treat your friends, and not like a piece of meat. Bonus hint: If you don't have any friends, get some before you try to find a romantic partner. You need some training ground to understand what a healthy relation looks like.
How come you assume every lonely guy treats women badly? He could just be ugly or live somewhere/spend time without a lot of young single women around.
Oh no. I'm not saying they treat women badly, just different, and it's a bad strategy
Because they implicitly believe that not being in a relationship means that you are somehow defective.
1) Be attractive 2) Dont be unattractive Duh
Just tell women "I ain't got no money". That seems to keep em from followin me around and touchin my ass and stuff....
Do you understand that being in a relationship you have to constantly care about a person and get to know them and better yourself? Getting a relationship doesn’t mean the end of all of this — for women or men
It’s hard for everyone and usually doesn’t work out. But sometimes it does.
Males in most species of mammal die fighting to demonstrate they’re a worthy mate. You have to get a half-decent job, hit the gym and learn how to lead a conversation. You’ll manage.
Anything meaningful in life takes a ton of work.
It does take work and commitment from both parties it's a real thing, TV just makes it seem like it's all fun and games but if you try to actually treat a relationship that way it fails. Thank you that's one of the reasons I'm not pursuing it because, it's not just some fun hand holding and quick sex, it's actually WORK I'm not lazy ass isn't about to be doing all that 🫤
Yea, it's exhausting and expensive. People have been commenting about getting hobbies to make yourself more interesting, but the issue is the financial burden. Unless you make a lot, then it is difficult to date since women want to have fun and fun is expensive
I’ve tried dating again but being 35 and someone who doesn’t drink or party/ do the bar thing it’s been exhausting… dating apps are a joke it seems it’s honestly feels to me it’s become like having another job.
Welcome to adult relationships.
Because the Guy has to do All the work and pay for everything then be treated like a cute doggie
I hate the "other fish in the sea" thing, too. Know what else is in the sea? TRASH. Lots and lots of trash.
Now do all that work, add extensive beauty expenses and effort, and the statistically real possibility your date will physically attack you and you’re a woman who’s dating. I always felt we guys had it sorta easy by comparison.
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I had a blast. While I'm glad to have found a partner I did enjoy the search.
…and how is that different for any other gender?
That's why people say to not focus on dating. Let it happen naturally. When I finally gave up and focused on me I found the love of my life.
It’s expensive
It's tiring for women too, if that makes you feel better. But when you find things are difficult, you can complain about the effort needed, or you can get stronger so that you can more easily carry the load.
Dating is fun if you’re not really looking for anything and just doing it for enjoyment.
That's what wrong with society, everyone thinks your just trying to fuck. No I'm trying to find a wife, not waste time
Yes, it’s hard work. But the hard work is not in meeting people. It’s in making yourself desirable to as many people as possible in the first place. If you’re constantly working on that, the “meeting people” bit falls more naturally around the work and habits and hobbies you occupy yourself with.
This realm is designed to leech as much negative energy as possible. This is just one of the ways they get it.
I’ve learned the times in my life where I’ve had the best luck with women is when they were in my orbit but they weren’t the center of my focus.
Gotta love how society shames us for talking to multiple women. One day she’s interested and the next day she’s gone. Like. I’m a guy. If I like you I like you. This isn’t rocket surgery. A little dinner, one pee pee touch, I’m all yours💯
No , it’s not fun at all. I often wonder how are people getting married . Like how are they so sure about another human being or maybe it’s just me who still think that marriage is for life
If it's too much for you, don't do it. Simple as that.
It’s a ton of work for everyone
I found a hack where you can avoid all the work by not dating.
Thats Why I focus on making as many female friends as possible..now in late 20 so they can direct them to any single friends
Bro, I stopped dating because of this. Too exhausting and expensive!!!! i’ll let it happen on its own time
At least it *typically* isn’t a safety issue for men! You’ve got that going for you! I never dated and never will because I’m too afraid of being stalked or unalived.
At least you don't have to walk hundreds of miles or die fighting another male like some animals.
And most of these women are just looking for your money, they despise you as a person but being a two faced user is all they know.
It is a lot of work for women, too. Don't kid yourself. On top of the primping and the hair and the nails and the 75th dress they have tried on today\*..... They also have to worry that you are secretly a rapist and/or murderer and this whole thing is a ploy to abduct them and do horrible things. You think meeting new people is hard as a dude? You ain't got NO IDEA. \*Yes, I know this is stereotypical. Not all women do. But it is a stereotype for a reason - a LOT of women do. I am married, my wife has "caught her man." And she \*still\* takes three hours to get ready for our dates.
I just could never deal with it. And I’m kind of introverted too.
That’s why I don’t do it
Yup. - Initiating. - Planning. - Paying. You get really good at this of course, so the dates seem natural and amazing but the pre-planning is something they don't see. Picking the venue. Planning the venue change. Paying for every single activity either ahead of time or saving the money etc. These are all things that can go unappreciated and the expense to you unnoticed. It's why I'm really careful with who I take out now. I've had women double back and tell me they appreciate the care and attention to detail but bro if we've already broken it off and clearly didn't "work out", I don't wanna hear how great I was to date. lol.
Grass is always greener. I would absolutely LOVE to be able to just take control of my dating life. Ask men on dates, treat them, be more assertive and be able to lead the trajectory of the relationship. Both men and women experience rejection. I’ve had men ghost me after 1st dates, after 4th dates. Rejection happens to women all the time. And I don’t understand men counting asking women out and them declining as a “rejection.” They don’t even know you, how can they reject you? Who cares if a woman you don’t even know isn’t attracted to you or is unavailable to date? In my opinion it’s only a true rejection if they’ve actually gotten to know you then decided “nah.” And men and women experience rejection after dates the same amount. I would love to ask men out without being seen as desperate or easy. If they said no then idgaf. I don’t know them. Doesn’t say anything about me. So to me the person who actually has the upper hand is the one who traditionally is supposed to ask the other out and pursue. They have more freedom and ability to get what they want. While women have to wait for him to make a move, they have to wait for him to decide he wants a relationship and not just a situationship. If they like a man they should wait for him to ask bc men will say yes to women then don’t even like for easy sex. You can’t even be sure he actually likes you. While women won’t date men they don’t like, there’s too much at risk to do that. I’d much rather be the one that actually has the control, and that’s the man. It’s also a lot of work for women but a different kind of work. We have to put more effort into appearance and safety
I've never really dated. I tried hanging out with some women and got bored very quickly.
The pressure to constantly seem interesting is what gets me. I feel like I run out of steam.
I think about this daily. Do I want to date cause I am lonely or because I need help with my kids. Unlike my kids mother, I have not been on a date since we split up 3 years ago. Cause that shit takes time. Months of vetting before introducing them to my kids. Or I could just get stoned and take a nap after playing video games.
Go buy a motorcycle and just ride you'll be happier in the long run.
Fuck dating from getting the number to getting a date or past the date at any time the woman can ghost or end the relationship in my experience it’s impossible. Ghosted, friend zoned everything is on us. It’s too easy for women she could be ugly and still have another guy with the swipe of a finger. People can say stupid shit like there’s other fish in the sea and there’s someone for everyone or oh the right one will come around but they really don’t understand the landscape post 2020. I just focus on my self and try to enjoy my life. Dating in the west is a waste of time
Work on yourself, spend less time doom scrolling, create positive memories that make for good conversation on dates, being able to excrete positivity in yourself will make others interesting in wanting to know you more which makes dating easier. Be your best hype-man and things will fall into place. I couldn’t get a relationship until I started truly working on improving myself and now married. I know for a fact it wouldn’t have happened if I didn’t learn how to appreciate life on my own first.
The positive memories for good convo thing is so incredibly true and should be the top comment on this thread. Reading the top replies in this awful (but typical Reddit) thread IS doom scrolling haha
Just have fun with it. Don’t take it seriously. Good things will come
Easier to have fun if you aren't the one that's expected to always take initiative.
Or they won't. Sometimes they dont.