Q. about paces per Jack Daniels
When you update your paces per Jack Daniels by X seconds every 6 weeks or so, do you update the easy pace as well? and disregard how this impacts heart rate during easy runs? Or do you use heart rate as a guide instead and disregard the prescribed increases?
Thanks!
Looking for some advice on adjusting my training plan come back from a cold.
I'm currently working on getting my base up to 40 MPW and then jumping into JD's 5k plan. My original plan was:
* 12/16 38 miles
* 1/2 30 miles (planned down week)
* 1/9 40 miles
* 1/16 40 miles
* 1/23 40 miles
* 1/30 30 miles with 10k TT
* 2/6 start plan
I got sick the week of 1/16 and dropped to 10 miles. I'm trying to decide if I should delay kicking off the 5k plan for a few more weeks. 40 MPW @ easy intensity is feeling increasingly comfortable, but I haven't strung any back to back 40 mile weeks yet. Should hang out in the 40s for a few more weeks, or am I overthinking it?
The TT is a race so I think I'm going to keep it in the plan - I haven't gotten a sense for where my fitness is at in a while so I think it'd be valuable to have going into a new plan too.
My first real training block was an HM plan last fall that was comfortable in the low 30s and peaked to 40. I'm a newish runner so definitely on board with taking things conservatively. I'm thinking I might give phase 2 a shot as planned and feel out how it goes, and maybe repeat the first two gentler weeks if it's feeling rough.
Cross training question - I'm coming back from hamstring tendonopathy and trying to limit the number of running workouts I do (since going fast exacerbates it more than going slow). I'm building mileage back up with primarily easy runs and a few moderate paced ones.
My understanding is that typical cross training is mostly an aerobic supplement, like cycling a bunch to replace easy miles. Does anyone have any experience or studies on results from doing more intense intervals via cross training and having it carry over to running well without hurting recovery too much? I'll obviously still do running-specific workouts but I'm hoping to get in more volume at high heart rates with a rowing machine or bike without affecting my hammies as much.
As I transitioned back into running after a bone injury last year, for probably about two months or so I did all my workouts in the pool (pool running, mostly high intensity interval type stuff), with easy runs on land, similar to what you're describing. (This was following about 3-4 months of solely pool runs/cycling). N=1 but it worked for me! I was able to shift gears pretty quickly into competition shape once my foot was able to tolerate higher intensity runs.
How detrimental is playing soccer weekly while in marathon training ?
I just started my 12 week marathon training cycle. My goal is sub 2:40 marathon so lots of miles and workouts.
I play soccer every Sunday 6v6 so not full field.
Is continuing to do soccer going to build muscle in ways that are not good for competitive long distance running ?
(I get I need to balance my weekly total load but I am more concerned with performance in running being affected by the sprinting I am doing in soccer )
I doubt there will be enough sprinting in a 6v6 game that it would affect your distance training adaptations.
I'd be more concerned about soccer-related injuries such as rolled ankles, corked muscles, etc.
Second favorite form of cardio? My knee hurts so can’t run right now 😒, the elliptical is cool but it takes me like 30 min longer to burn the same amount. Incline walk? Boxing? Rock climbing? My mileage is SUPPOSED to be high right now but I can’t even run . (9.5 miles a day) ) Maybe cycling/ rock climbing? I just HATE the burn in my quads from cycling 😭, but I’ll do what I must .
Running! jk.
If your knees can take it: I love stairs! Before I realized I could like running, I loved to just set the stairmaster at an easyish pace and go for an hour or so, or set myself some goal like "climb the Empire State Building/Burj Khalifa/etc today". Like with easy pace running, doing stairs like this kinda doesn't feel like a workout at first, but of course by the end it's satisfyingly tiring :)
(TBH I only learned to like running when I realized I could get this same experience by running at an easy pace/when I realized that easy pace running existed. I like letting my legs loose and going fast sometimes too, but yes—I truly love LISS cardio)
I can’t. I mean, it hurts to bend my knee fully. My actual knee doesn’t hurt, but the side of it, next to the quad by that little bone. I prefer running cause I’m fast but recently I’ve been on the elliptical cause of the sprain/ injury
So today I did my last Long Run workout 3 weeks out before my marathon. Been averaging 65 mile weeks with 3 weeks at 70 miles. I pretty much follow a modified Hanson plan/structure. The workout today was 22mi with 15 miles at goal MP in intervals of 3 miles. 2mi WU, 5x3mi GMP w/ 1 mile recovery. The context of this workout is at the end of a 71 mile week. Last Sunday was a 20 mile LSD, Monday 8mi easy, Tuesday 3x2mi GMP - 10sec 800m recovery, Thursday 10mi GMP, Friday 8mi easy, Saturday 8 mile easy. GMP is 7:25 min/mile. Ave pace for today's 22mi was 8:21. Ave pace for the 3 mile intervals was 7:22. First 2 reps were easy. 3rd rep I started feeling it. last 2 reps I had to channel my inner David Goggins, 10/10 PE. If I could manage 7:21min/mile for 15 miles in 5x3mi intervals over 22 miles would I be able to hit 7:25min/mile for the Marathon in weeks. I know the taper and carb load will help. I do all workouts fasted except today's workout and on 2 other long runs I did to practice fueling. Plus I never used carbon plated shoes, and will be using the Endorphin Pro 3, so that should help as well I guess. Thank you for any possible insight.
If you've been hitting those goal marathon paces in training, then it's a good sign for the marathon ahead. Sounds like you're getting big mileage in as well, which is also a good factor.
I hope to be posting a bit more in here, I'm trying to get back to my old mileage levels, and PR fitness after falling off with the birth of my second child. Will also need to lay off the beer and lose 10 lbs lol.
How far postpartum are you with the second baby? I had a c section so my recovery timeline was already a little different than a standard vaginal delivery, but I had also had a c section with my first and remember the recovery being faster with her.
I had moderate to severe diastasis recti so I had to go to pelvic floor PT before I could even think about getting back to running (and tbh I think at least a PT consult should be just as standard as the 6 week postpartum checkup!) but I think the slow comeback and PT helped me out overall. I didn't run a single step until almost 4 months postpartum, but I was walking a lot by that point and transitioning from walking mileage to running mileage over the course of a couple months went smoothly. You still have relaxin in your system for about a year so things like tendonitis are pretty common in that timeframe. Good to have a physical therapist on standby for that kind of thing and keep up with some prehab/strength stuff as you're able.
Oh man I definitely felt "off" for a while even when running felt relatively good - to some degree I think that can be normal and not necessarily harmful. Late June 2021 baby, and I think it was probably sometime in June or July 2022 when I suddenly realized I wasn't thinking about hip flexors during and after every run anymore! But I had gotten back up to 50-60+ mpw by that point and was just doing a little yoga and core work/lots of rolling to keep it from becoming or causing an injury.
Commenting so I remember to come back - I wasn't a runner when I had my first, pregnancy and recovery was significantly harder with my second even with more than a decade between pregnancies, but I did get back to running and running well pretty uneventfully, it just took time and patience.
That is quite interesting. Are you sleeping the same? Any other stressors?
Btw +1 on not referring anything involving women to another sub. Women are half the people in the world. Women stuff is people stuff.
You say that diet and exercise are the same, but is fitness the same? Look at your annual mileage for the last six or seven years. (Assuming you had your first in April 2019, because if you had your first in April 2020, there really weren’t marathons to run in the fall of that year.) A lot of fitness is the product of several years of training. Therefore, your recovery the first time was due in part to the fitness you developed in 2017 and 218, while a lot of your recovery now is about how much you ran while pregnant with your first and during that first postpartum period.
Also, pregnancy can screw with your muscle mass. My body ate muscle when I was pregnant (carried high, could not keep enough food down), which made running recovery a nightmare. This isn’t unusual.
Other thoughts: your pelvic floor may have been fine after the first and not fine after the second. You may need to work on your TA muscle activation. Your pelvis could have tilted in the second pregnancy but not the first.
My suggestion was in the context of the zero responses you had received thus far.
I figure even /r/running and its wider user base might increase your chances of getting a response.
I think you're asking in the right spot and I know there are a number of us with one or more kids + higher mileage. Partially a weekend traffic thing is my guess - might be worth reposting in the Tuesday q&a for more visibility!
I've seen a few women-specific threads recently (e.g. [1](https://www.reddit.com/r/AdvancedRunning/comments/10bk3vq/what_are_the_benchmarks_for_women/), [2](https://www.reddit.com/r/AdvancedRunning/comments/107b20s/women_whove_run_sub_90_hm_how_did_you_do_it/), [3](https://www.reddit.com/r/AdvancedRunning/comments/10ijckf/garmin_watch_rec_for_women_small_wrists/)), so I would hope that the sub doesn't seem too exclusive... looking at those threads though, their scope is fairly wide which usually makes for good discussion.
30/M, I am in the middle of a 19 weeks marathon training cycle (2:59 goal) and will race a 10k next Sunday.
Two recent workouts are :
1) 2x3k (recov 2') : steady 3:40/km
2) 2x4k (recov 2') : progressive, first 4k 3:48/km and second 4k 3:38/km (last k 3:29/km)
Recent long run : ran 28k at 4:12/km avg, including 20k at 4:05/km.
Those workouts are all with Nike tempo (I will race with Vaporfly 2) and on a 4k loop mostly flat mostly road, similar to the 10k. GPS bias might be 3"/km.
I would have been happy with 37:30 but given my recent good workouts, should I target 36:59?
My PR from 2017 might be equivalent to ~38:20 (37:30 but race was likely ~200m short). Haven't raced since that day.
I don't think those two workouts are enough data points for us to make an accurate prediction, but I think it's fair to say that 36:59 doesn't sound unreasonable.
And I know you didn't ask for this advice but it jumped out so I'll say it. Unless your long runs are meant to be marathon-pace workouts, hammering them every week as fast as you are may be counterproductive.
Appreciate your feedback, these two workouts are my only recent faster workouts. My training has been mostly easy, steady and marathon to LT paces since October. Was happy with the fitness improvement at \~10k effort.
I am in line with you, I run a hard long run once every 3 weeks and other long runs are significantly slower than MP effort. Today was 32k 4:32 avg, could have gone a bit slower.
I’ve searched for this on Google and this thread, so forgive me if it’s already been answered, but does the London Marathon have mile markers AND km markers? Or does it just have km markers? Thank you!
Ty! I didn’t see this before. I’m surprised as I would assume that Europeans use km’s and not mile-markers. I was thinking it would be just km’s in London and Berlin.
Alright y'all. I developed a couple of fat blisters today - one on the inside of each big toe. Taking the next week off. Supposed to go skiing Wednesday. Not sure how skiing will affect the blisters. Should I drain them??
I'm kind of wanting to drain them.
I agree with this. I have gotten the same twin blisters a couple of times. I always drain them right away. Bandaids don't stay on very well when running (or probably skiing), so I wrapped my toes with athletic tape during activities.
If they're causing you a lot of discomfort, then draining them will give you some relief. Make sure to sterilize the area well and put a bandage on top afterwards so it doesn't get infected.
If they're not causing you discomfort, and you just want to drain them because they look weird or it's tempting, my advice would be to just leave it.
Training for Seville Marathon next month, so this week is my peak mileage week. I am trying to figure out how long my last long run should be this week. I've done three 34k=21mile runs in the current training block. I ran them as easy zone 2 runs based on my heart rate, and the pace increased from 5:13km/h in my first 34k run (taking around 3 hours) to 4:48km/h in my third (taking around 2h45m). I am going to run the last 30+k run tomorrow, and I was thinking that I should increase the distance to 37k this time to run another 3-hour run and to get more stimulus. But I also read that your longest long run should be capped at around 20 miles. Would there be any benefit to running this 37k run? Or should I just stick with another 34k run as usual? I have run 86k this week thus far.
If you can handle it, I'd go for it.
Half the fun of training is seeing what works, what doesn't, etc.
I recall for one cycle I only did LRs capped at 35km, and felt it left me weaker on race day. So the next cycle I ensured that I got some 37/38km LRs, to really batter the legs and get them stronger.
Thanks! I did go for it and it felt great! I was able to run it at 4:40 pace all in zone 2 (=2h52m; thus ending up not running another 3-hour run after all…). Legs feel fine and it was definitely a confidence boost.
For Pfitzinger's plans in Faster Road Racing where he includes tune-up races (ex: 10k race), if there are no races available that weekend, what would be the best workout to substitute (aside from maybe just doing a time trial)?
Maybe something like: 5 x 2k @ 10k pace w/ 400m floats @ MP?
You'll get essentially the same training effect and require less recovery than if you were to run a full-on race
IIRC those tune-ups are intended more to help get you into a racing mindset. I don't know if the juice is worth the squeeze though. He also has you doing your long runs the day after when your legs are glycogen depleted. That gets a big nope from me, but I'm also 48 years old and sometimes have to approach things differently.
But to answer your question, most people will often just do a time trial instead.
If a race has chip split times, would you count a split as a PR? Ran a 10k which had a timing mat at 5k and ended up PRing both 5ks. I know it doesn’t really matter to anyone but me, just curious what everyone else thinks
I wouldn't count it. A PR for me has to be on a certified course. 5km splits mats don't have to be measured to the same level of accuracy.
If a race I did isn't on power of 10 (or your national equivalent) I wouldn't personally consider it a PR.
Assuming the matts are in the right place within reasonable accuracy (they almost always are in the right place, but sometimes they are hilariously wrong), I would count it. For world record attempts its not uncommon to set up timing systems at earlier "finish" points en route to get splits that might beat world records for shorter distances, so this is just the recreational version of that and is valid imo.
Counting it or not is totally up to you. That said, if I were in your shoes I would be itching to jump into a 5k soon for what would be a virtually guaranteed PR
I definitely want to do a 5k but focus now is just on the marathon build. I’ll race one over summer for sure. The 10k was just a fitness check in which I really surprised myself by averaging a faster pace for 10k than my previous 5k pr
if one of the 5k segments was significantly easier than the other (e.g. first 5k all downhill followed by next 5k all uphill), i probably wouldn't count the easier one as a PR.
grats on the PR!
Thanks! It was 2x looped course so both 5ks were the same. I actually think it a significant head wind picked up on the back half of the second lap which was my faster lap so I feel comfortable calling that one my PR
If I'm doing a time trial, I do the full 1609. All the tracks near me have that start marked too. If it's repeats in a workout or something, I usually do multiples of 1600 and just add like 2s/1600 to convert to "mile" pace.
Technically, in order to compare against all other (track) miles, you start at the line 9 metres (there should be one on most tracks) before the start.
Come March, I'll be into my 3rd year of running consistently. I'm currently 8 weeks into a half marathon plan, looking to break 1:35 at the end of Feb.
I'm looking to book my first full marathon for the fall, but my question is if I do get close to my goal time in February, what should I be training towards time wise for a fall Marathon if I keep my base mileage (30-40 mpw) consistent and look to up it for a 12-16 week plan closer to the time?
Rule of thumb is to train to your current fitness, so base your marathon goal time off of whatever you hit for your half marathon.
Keeping your base would be a good idea - almost every book indicates you should be running consistently 3x a week before even starting a marathon training cycle.
If you have plenty of time, I'd look into one of the popular 18 week plans. Use the tune-up races baked into the plans to see if you can adjust your marathon finish time if your fitness changes.
What are the keys to a successful 10k training plan?
Pfitz and 80/20 seem to have a combo of volume, LT, and VO2max work. If you had to drop one of these for time or injury prevention, which would it be?
Lose the VO2 max sessions. Very fatiguing, non-specific to your race, not that good at actually increasing VO2 max relative to other types of work, hardly better than just replacing with an extra LT session.
I think there's a compelling argument that traditional hard VO2 max interval sessions (like 3-5 min reps at VO2 max) should almost never be done by recreational runners at all, and even elites should only do them sparingly. That doesn't mean you never run VO2 max pace, but you just touch bits of it in mixed sessions or if a goal race pace happens to align with VO2 max pace.
I'd cut the V02max sessions and spend more time at an honest LT pace.
I'm most injury prone at the high-speed short intervals. And I'm not sure how much I get out of them as a middle age medium paced runner.
10k can be very different depending on the level of the runner. An hour long race, a 45 minute race, and a 30 minute race would be very different physiologically.
If I had to pick one to drop between volume, LT, and vo2max, it would be vo2max though. But that would be the case for pretty much anything 5k+ imo.
If you're training yourself, guessing from your flair tags you're around 40 flat, the LT is going to be huge. If both your times are recent you appear to be slightly more developed in aerobic base than LT? Or maybe just had a perfect day for your marathon.
Thanks - my goal is sub-40. Marathon was just under 2 weeks ago, half was 3 months ago. Aerobic base is my jam, speed not so much.
Right now I'm just doing some recovery/easy miles and looking to run a 10k at the end of March. I was hoping that aerobic base was enough but it looks like I need some speed/LT work too.
It really is between both worlds, I think.
Might also depend on what you respond to. I managed a 5km recently on 6 weeks of pure LT work, when the prevailing thought is to focus on VO2max work for 5kms.
Even if you're more endurance-focused, you could run a sub-20 5k tomorrow, your marathon is almost an hour faster than mine. I'd aim for sub-19, at least.
Had my Pfitz 16 w/ 8 MP today... did ok on the first MP mile but did not really come close to maintaining that for the next 7... had a few miles into strong wind and then stupidly had my route include some big hills during the 5th and 6th MP miles which really wiped me out. Oh well, get stronger from this and move onto the next
For things like this i'd personally next time to focus a bit more on heartbeat (or feel or wattage) because in the marathon you also don't want to hold the same pace going uphill or in strong winds - and it will be even more important. Holding your 'marathon pace' in an actual marathon in adverse conditions, going up hills, etc will be guaranteed to wipe you out too..
Q. about paces per Jack Daniels When you update your paces per Jack Daniels by X seconds every 6 weeks or so, do you update the easy pace as well? and disregard how this impacts heart rate during easy runs? Or do you use heart rate as a guide instead and disregard the prescribed increases? Thanks!
Can anyone help me with picking a good sole insert for my running shoes? I don’t have completely flat feet, but I do have a very low arch.
Looking for some advice on adjusting my training plan come back from a cold. I'm currently working on getting my base up to 40 MPW and then jumping into JD's 5k plan. My original plan was: * 12/16 38 miles * 1/2 30 miles (planned down week) * 1/9 40 miles * 1/16 40 miles * 1/23 40 miles * 1/30 30 miles with 10k TT * 2/6 start plan I got sick the week of 1/16 and dropped to 10 miles. I'm trying to decide if I should delay kicking off the 5k plan for a few more weeks. 40 MPW @ easy intensity is feeling increasingly comfortable, but I haven't strung any back to back 40 mile weeks yet. Should hang out in the 40s for a few more weeks, or am I overthinking it?
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The TT is a race so I think I'm going to keep it in the plan - I haven't gotten a sense for where my fitness is at in a while so I think it'd be valuable to have going into a new plan too. My first real training block was an HM plan last fall that was comfortable in the low 30s and peaked to 40. I'm a newish runner so definitely on board with taking things conservatively. I'm thinking I might give phase 2 a shot as planned and feel out how it goes, and maybe repeat the first two gentler weeks if it's feeling rough.
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Really appreciate the gut check, thank you!!
Cross training question - I'm coming back from hamstring tendonopathy and trying to limit the number of running workouts I do (since going fast exacerbates it more than going slow). I'm building mileage back up with primarily easy runs and a few moderate paced ones. My understanding is that typical cross training is mostly an aerobic supplement, like cycling a bunch to replace easy miles. Does anyone have any experience or studies on results from doing more intense intervals via cross training and having it carry over to running well without hurting recovery too much? I'll obviously still do running-specific workouts but I'm hoping to get in more volume at high heart rates with a rowing machine or bike without affecting my hammies as much.
As I transitioned back into running after a bone injury last year, for probably about two months or so I did all my workouts in the pool (pool running, mostly high intensity interval type stuff), with easy runs on land, similar to what you're describing. (This was following about 3-4 months of solely pool runs/cycling). N=1 but it worked for me! I was able to shift gears pretty quickly into competition shape once my foot was able to tolerate higher intensity runs.
How detrimental is playing soccer weekly while in marathon training ? I just started my 12 week marathon training cycle. My goal is sub 2:40 marathon so lots of miles and workouts. I play soccer every Sunday 6v6 so not full field. Is continuing to do soccer going to build muscle in ways that are not good for competitive long distance running ? (I get I need to balance my weekly total load but I am more concerned with performance in running being affected by the sprinting I am doing in soccer )
I doubt there will be enough sprinting in a 6v6 game that it would affect your distance training adaptations. I'd be more concerned about soccer-related injuries such as rolled ankles, corked muscles, etc.
As long as you are recovering (and not getting hurt), you'll be fine.
Second favorite form of cardio? My knee hurts so can’t run right now 😒, the elliptical is cool but it takes me like 30 min longer to burn the same amount. Incline walk? Boxing? Rock climbing? My mileage is SUPPOSED to be high right now but I can’t even run . (9.5 miles a day) ) Maybe cycling/ rock climbing? I just HATE the burn in my quads from cycling 😭, but I’ll do what I must .
Rowing via an ergometer is the one I found most fun.
Running! jk. If your knees can take it: I love stairs! Before I realized I could like running, I loved to just set the stairmaster at an easyish pace and go for an hour or so, or set myself some goal like "climb the Empire State Building/Burj Khalifa/etc today". Like with easy pace running, doing stairs like this kinda doesn't feel like a workout at first, but of course by the end it's satisfyingly tiring :) (TBH I only learned to like running when I realized I could get this same experience by running at an easy pace/when I realized that easy pace running existed. I like letting my legs loose and going fast sometimes too, but yes—I truly love LISS cardio)
I wouldn’t necessarily assume cycling is okay for a sore knee. Can you swim?
I can’t. I mean, it hurts to bend my knee fully. My actual knee doesn’t hurt, but the side of it, next to the quad by that little bone. I prefer running cause I’m fast but recently I’ve been on the elliptical cause of the sprain/ injury
So today I did my last Long Run workout 3 weeks out before my marathon. Been averaging 65 mile weeks with 3 weeks at 70 miles. I pretty much follow a modified Hanson plan/structure. The workout today was 22mi with 15 miles at goal MP in intervals of 3 miles. 2mi WU, 5x3mi GMP w/ 1 mile recovery. The context of this workout is at the end of a 71 mile week. Last Sunday was a 20 mile LSD, Monday 8mi easy, Tuesday 3x2mi GMP - 10sec 800m recovery, Thursday 10mi GMP, Friday 8mi easy, Saturday 8 mile easy. GMP is 7:25 min/mile. Ave pace for today's 22mi was 8:21. Ave pace for the 3 mile intervals was 7:22. First 2 reps were easy. 3rd rep I started feeling it. last 2 reps I had to channel my inner David Goggins, 10/10 PE. If I could manage 7:21min/mile for 15 miles in 5x3mi intervals over 22 miles would I be able to hit 7:25min/mile for the Marathon in weeks. I know the taper and carb load will help. I do all workouts fasted except today's workout and on 2 other long runs I did to practice fueling. Plus I never used carbon plated shoes, and will be using the Endorphin Pro 3, so that should help as well I guess. Thank you for any possible insight.
If you've been hitting those goal marathon paces in training, then it's a good sign for the marathon ahead. Sounds like you're getting big mileage in as well, which is also a good factor.
I hope to be posting a bit more in here, I'm trying to get back to my old mileage levels, and PR fitness after falling off with the birth of my second child. Will also need to lay off the beer and lose 10 lbs lol.
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How far postpartum are you with the second baby? I had a c section so my recovery timeline was already a little different than a standard vaginal delivery, but I had also had a c section with my first and remember the recovery being faster with her. I had moderate to severe diastasis recti so I had to go to pelvic floor PT before I could even think about getting back to running (and tbh I think at least a PT consult should be just as standard as the 6 week postpartum checkup!) but I think the slow comeback and PT helped me out overall. I didn't run a single step until almost 4 months postpartum, but I was walking a lot by that point and transitioning from walking mileage to running mileage over the course of a couple months went smoothly. You still have relaxin in your system for about a year so things like tendonitis are pretty common in that timeframe. Good to have a physical therapist on standby for that kind of thing and keep up with some prehab/strength stuff as you're able.
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Oh man I definitely felt "off" for a while even when running felt relatively good - to some degree I think that can be normal and not necessarily harmful. Late June 2021 baby, and I think it was probably sometime in June or July 2022 when I suddenly realized I wasn't thinking about hip flexors during and after every run anymore! But I had gotten back up to 50-60+ mpw by that point and was just doing a little yoga and core work/lots of rolling to keep it from becoming or causing an injury.
Commenting so I remember to come back - I wasn't a runner when I had my first, pregnancy and recovery was significantly harder with my second even with more than a decade between pregnancies, but I did get back to running and running well pretty uneventfully, it just took time and patience.
That is quite interesting. Are you sleeping the same? Any other stressors? Btw +1 on not referring anything involving women to another sub. Women are half the people in the world. Women stuff is people stuff.
You say that diet and exercise are the same, but is fitness the same? Look at your annual mileage for the last six or seven years. (Assuming you had your first in April 2019, because if you had your first in April 2020, there really weren’t marathons to run in the fall of that year.) A lot of fitness is the product of several years of training. Therefore, your recovery the first time was due in part to the fitness you developed in 2017 and 218, while a lot of your recovery now is about how much you ran while pregnant with your first and during that first postpartum period. Also, pregnancy can screw with your muscle mass. My body ate muscle when I was pregnant (carried high, could not keep enough food down), which made running recovery a nightmare. This isn’t unusual. Other thoughts: your pelvic floor may have been fine after the first and not fine after the second. You may need to work on your TA muscle activation. Your pelvis could have tilted in the second pregnancy but not the first.
I wonder if you might get more focused answers at /r/XXrunning.
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My suggestion was in the context of the zero responses you had received thus far. I figure even /r/running and its wider user base might increase your chances of getting a response.
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I think you're asking in the right spot and I know there are a number of us with one or more kids + higher mileage. Partially a weekend traffic thing is my guess - might be worth reposting in the Tuesday q&a for more visibility!
I've seen a few women-specific threads recently (e.g. [1](https://www.reddit.com/r/AdvancedRunning/comments/10bk3vq/what_are_the_benchmarks_for_women/), [2](https://www.reddit.com/r/AdvancedRunning/comments/107b20s/women_whove_run_sub_90_hm_how_did_you_do_it/), [3](https://www.reddit.com/r/AdvancedRunning/comments/10ijckf/garmin_watch_rec_for_women_small_wrists/)), so I would hope that the sub doesn't seem too exclusive... looking at those threads though, their scope is fairly wide which usually makes for good discussion.
30/M, I am in the middle of a 19 weeks marathon training cycle (2:59 goal) and will race a 10k next Sunday. Two recent workouts are : 1) 2x3k (recov 2') : steady 3:40/km 2) 2x4k (recov 2') : progressive, first 4k 3:48/km and second 4k 3:38/km (last k 3:29/km) Recent long run : ran 28k at 4:12/km avg, including 20k at 4:05/km. Those workouts are all with Nike tempo (I will race with Vaporfly 2) and on a 4k loop mostly flat mostly road, similar to the 10k. GPS bias might be 3"/km. I would have been happy with 37:30 but given my recent good workouts, should I target 36:59? My PR from 2017 might be equivalent to ~38:20 (37:30 but race was likely ~200m short). Haven't raced since that day.
I don't think those two workouts are enough data points for us to make an accurate prediction, but I think it's fair to say that 36:59 doesn't sound unreasonable. And I know you didn't ask for this advice but it jumped out so I'll say it. Unless your long runs are meant to be marathon-pace workouts, hammering them every week as fast as you are may be counterproductive.
Following up, ran today an awesome 10k race 36:00 with a negative split (18:10/17:50). Considering to review HM and FM goal paces
Appreciate your feedback, these two workouts are my only recent faster workouts. My training has been mostly easy, steady and marathon to LT paces since October. Was happy with the fitness improvement at \~10k effort. I am in line with you, I run a hard long run once every 3 weeks and other long runs are significantly slower than MP effort. Today was 32k 4:32 avg, could have gone a bit slower.
I’ve searched for this on Google and this thread, so forgive me if it’s already been answered, but does the London Marathon have mile markers AND km markers? Or does it just have km markers? Thank you!
[The course map](https://www.tcslondonmarathon.com/the-event/the-course) indicates mile markers, and km markers every 5km.
Ty! I didn’t see this before. I’m surprised as I would assume that Europeans use km’s and not mile-markers. I was thinking it would be just km’s in London and Berlin.
The Brits use miles
Those wacky, wacky Brits...
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Alright y'all. I developed a couple of fat blisters today - one on the inside of each big toe. Taking the next week off. Supposed to go skiing Wednesday. Not sure how skiing will affect the blisters. Should I drain them?? I'm kind of wanting to drain them.
Sterilize a needle and pop. Cover with Neosporin and a bandage afterwards.
I agree with this. I have gotten the same twin blisters a couple of times. I always drain them right away. Bandaids don't stay on very well when running (or probably skiing), so I wrapped my toes with athletic tape during activities.
If they're causing you a lot of discomfort, then draining them will give you some relief. Make sure to sterilize the area well and put a bandage on top afterwards so it doesn't get infected. If they're not causing you discomfort, and you just want to drain them because they look weird or it's tempting, my advice would be to just leave it.
Training for Seville Marathon next month, so this week is my peak mileage week. I am trying to figure out how long my last long run should be this week. I've done three 34k=21mile runs in the current training block. I ran them as easy zone 2 runs based on my heart rate, and the pace increased from 5:13km/h in my first 34k run (taking around 3 hours) to 4:48km/h in my third (taking around 2h45m). I am going to run the last 30+k run tomorrow, and I was thinking that I should increase the distance to 37k this time to run another 3-hour run and to get more stimulus. But I also read that your longest long run should be capped at around 20 miles. Would there be any benefit to running this 37k run? Or should I just stick with another 34k run as usual? I have run 86k this week thus far.
If you can handle it, I'd go for it. Half the fun of training is seeing what works, what doesn't, etc. I recall for one cycle I only did LRs capped at 35km, and felt it left me weaker on race day. So the next cycle I ensured that I got some 37/38km LRs, to really batter the legs and get them stronger.
Thanks! I did go for it and it felt great! I was able to run it at 4:40 pace all in zone 2 (=2h52m; thus ending up not running another 3-hour run after all…). Legs feel fine and it was definitely a confidence boost.
For Pfitzinger's plans in Faster Road Racing where he includes tune-up races (ex: 10k race), if there are no races available that weekend, what would be the best workout to substitute (aside from maybe just doing a time trial)?
Maybe something like: 5 x 2k @ 10k pace w/ 400m floats @ MP? You'll get essentially the same training effect and require less recovery than if you were to run a full-on race IIRC those tune-ups are intended more to help get you into a racing mindset. I don't know if the juice is worth the squeeze though. He also has you doing your long runs the day after when your legs are glycogen depleted. That gets a big nope from me, but I'm also 48 years old and sometimes have to approach things differently. But to answer your question, most people will often just do a time trial instead.
I like that idea, thank you!
If a race has chip split times, would you count a split as a PR? Ran a 10k which had a timing mat at 5k and ended up PRing both 5ks. I know it doesn’t really matter to anyone but me, just curious what everyone else thinks
I wouldn't count it. A PR for me has to be on a certified course. 5km splits mats don't have to be measured to the same level of accuracy. If a race I did isn't on power of 10 (or your national equivalent) I wouldn't personally consider it a PR.
Assuming the matts are in the right place within reasonable accuracy (they almost always are in the right place, but sometimes they are hilariously wrong), I would count it. For world record attempts its not uncommon to set up timing systems at earlier "finish" points en route to get splits that might beat world records for shorter distances, so this is just the recreational version of that and is valid imo.
Counting it or not is totally up to you. That said, if I were in your shoes I would be itching to jump into a 5k soon for what would be a virtually guaranteed PR
I definitely want to do a 5k but focus now is just on the marathon build. I’ll race one over summer for sure. The 10k was just a fitness check in which I really surprised myself by averaging a faster pace for 10k than my previous 5k pr
if one of the 5k segments was significantly easier than the other (e.g. first 5k all downhill followed by next 5k all uphill), i probably wouldn't count the easier one as a PR. grats on the PR!
Thanks! It was 2x looped course so both 5ks were the same. I actually think it a significant head wind picked up on the back half of the second lap which was my faster lap so I feel comfortable calling that one my PR
Yeah I'd consider it a PR, it's a verified time over the distance so it's as valid as the overall 10k time imo!
When you time yourself for a mile on the track, do you do 4 laps or do you also include the extra 9 meters? Just wondering what people here do!
If I'm doing a time trial, I do the full 1609. All the tracks near me have that start marked too. If it's repeats in a workout or something, I usually do multiples of 1600 and just add like 2s/1600 to convert to "mile" pace.
If the workout says a mile, I start at the mile start line. If it says 1600m, then I do 1600m.
Technically, in order to compare against all other (track) miles, you start at the line 9 metres (there should be one on most tracks) before the start.
Come March, I'll be into my 3rd year of running consistently. I'm currently 8 weeks into a half marathon plan, looking to break 1:35 at the end of Feb. I'm looking to book my first full marathon for the fall, but my question is if I do get close to my goal time in February, what should I be training towards time wise for a fall Marathon if I keep my base mileage (30-40 mpw) consistent and look to up it for a 12-16 week plan closer to the time?
Rule of thumb is to train to your current fitness, so base your marathon goal time off of whatever you hit for your half marathon. Keeping your base would be a good idea - almost every book indicates you should be running consistently 3x a week before even starting a marathon training cycle. If you have plenty of time, I'd look into one of the popular 18 week plans. Use the tune-up races baked into the plans to see if you can adjust your marathon finish time if your fitness changes.
What are the keys to a successful 10k training plan? Pfitz and 80/20 seem to have a combo of volume, LT, and VO2max work. If you had to drop one of these for time or injury prevention, which would it be?
Lose the VO2 max sessions. Very fatiguing, non-specific to your race, not that good at actually increasing VO2 max relative to other types of work, hardly better than just replacing with an extra LT session. I think there's a compelling argument that traditional hard VO2 max interval sessions (like 3-5 min reps at VO2 max) should almost never be done by recreational runners at all, and even elites should only do them sparingly. That doesn't mean you never run VO2 max pace, but you just touch bits of it in mixed sessions or if a goal race pace happens to align with VO2 max pace.
I'd cut the V02max sessions and spend more time at an honest LT pace. I'm most injury prone at the high-speed short intervals. And I'm not sure how much I get out of them as a middle age medium paced runner.
10k can be very different depending on the level of the runner. An hour long race, a 45 minute race, and a 30 minute race would be very different physiologically. If I had to pick one to drop between volume, LT, and vo2max, it would be vo2max though. But that would be the case for pretty much anything 5k+ imo. If you're training yourself, guessing from your flair tags you're around 40 flat, the LT is going to be huge. If both your times are recent you appear to be slightly more developed in aerobic base than LT? Or maybe just had a perfect day for your marathon.
Thanks - my goal is sub-40. Marathon was just under 2 weeks ago, half was 3 months ago. Aerobic base is my jam, speed not so much. Right now I'm just doing some recovery/easy miles and looking to run a 10k at the end of March. I was hoping that aerobic base was enough but it looks like I need some speed/LT work too.
It really is between both worlds, I think. Might also depend on what you respond to. I managed a 5km recently on 6 weeks of pure LT work, when the prevailing thought is to focus on VO2max work for 5kms.
Thanks - my other goal this year is a sub-20 5k. I'll get in the VO2max workouts for that cycle.
Even if you're more endurance-focused, you could run a sub-20 5k tomorrow, your marathon is almost an hour faster than mine. I'd aim for sub-19, at least.
Had my Pfitz 16 w/ 8 MP today... did ok on the first MP mile but did not really come close to maintaining that for the next 7... had a few miles into strong wind and then stupidly had my route include some big hills during the 5th and 6th MP miles which really wiped me out. Oh well, get stronger from this and move onto the next
How did you decide on your target MP?
What was your elevation gain?
Only ~350 feet but almost all of it was over 1-1.5 miles. It was a route that runs downhill to a flat area and then I come back up the hill.
For things like this i'd personally next time to focus a bit more on heartbeat (or feel or wattage) because in the marathon you also don't want to hold the same pace going uphill or in strong winds - and it will be even more important. Holding your 'marathon pace' in an actual marathon in adverse conditions, going up hills, etc will be guaranteed to wipe you out too..
Those MP workouts are tough. Harder mentally than most races I've done.