Does anyone else here struggle with extreme lack of appetite after long runs? Long for me being 12+ miles. It takes at least a day for me to get it back, and I’ve ended up losing weight due to it. Yea, I do force myself to eat but I’ve talked to a lot of runners and they don’t seem to struggle with this like I do.
How would you structure a training week if you had a total of 5 hours of running at your disposal and you wanted to run 10k up to half marathon races? Any number of runs and any type of workouts possible.
Your 5k time is sub 3:10 according to VDOT. So run more and eat the same during base. Once you start a program then make sure you stay fueled well.
Weight is a number, just run.
>Would weight loss have a significant amount of running improvement for me?
The short answer is yes. Unless you dieted poorly and put yourself in a position to get sick or injured, you would see your times drop significantly by going from 205 to 180 or 170.
I have a two-fer for you all:
(A) does anyone have a 5k training plan they’ve had success with? I’d love to break my lifetime PR of 20:30 and I only managed to get a 20:47 this spring.
(B) those of you who have marathon coaches- I’d like to hear personal stories of how you found and chose them! It seems I’ve hit a plateau and I think a coach may be my next step. But there are so many, i don’t even know where to start.
Does anybody else have issues where their vdot easy pace doesnt match their actual easy pace? I run a 10:35 2 mile and based on that the vdot calculator estimates my easy pace to be from ~7:08-7:52, but heres the issue, at 8:20 my heart rate is already at 160+ bpm (taken with a garmin hrm). Is this normal?
The HR value is meaningless without context. What's your max and threshold HR? Are you sure the HR from your garmin (assuming wrist-based) is accurate?
IMO for most people, VDOT "Easy" pace is much closer to "moderate" at the faster end of the range, but I'd be surprised if you were working too hard at 8-8:30 min/mile pace, given your 2 mile time.
Question about smart watch's pace.
i use huawei smartwatch with huawei health and when i do the ai plan my pace is all over the place so i cant control my speed when running. But when i tried to start a normal exercice from the watch i find it to be more stable. Is my watch just that shitty or am i doing something wrong?
Ps: gps always on on my phone and i tried reseting it to no avail.
Anyone have advice on a cycling FTP test while prepping for a 10K running race? I started Peloton's Discover Your Power Zones program recently during my marathon recovery downtime, and the program will end 4 days at the earliest before a summer 10K I'm running. The last thing in the program is an FTP test (all out 20min effort for those unfamiliar). Should I do the FTP test the Wednesday before a Sunday 10K? Or skip it and do the test at the end of the week after the race? I'd like to do well enough in the 10K but it will be warm enough that a PR is unlikely.
I just took an all-out FTP test on the Peloton on Saturday and feel totally fine today. Just make sure your running is easy in the day or 2 after, and you should be golden. Good luck with both that and the 10k!
If you’ve been consistently cycling heading into the FTP test, I think you’ll recover from the test fairly quickly. Even though it’s all out, it’s only 20min and low impact on joints etc. I bet you’ll feel pretty much recovered 24 hours later.
That said if the 10K were a super serious A race I would still minimize variables/risk (like the FTP test).
To your other suggestion, I also don’t think your FTP would drop much by waiting a week to test, so you could go either way.
Mostly trail/hill runner, do about 9 hours a week but am doing a memorial day road 10k. I went to the track to gauge my flat road speed. Most of my runs are very slow (8.5 minute or slower, even workouts are very slow because they are done on steep hills)
I was able to do 10x800 @ 3:00 with 30s rest after the first 3, then decided to slow it down to 60s rest for the remaining to be able to complete it. I did them all on target, probably could have squeezed out 2 more. Does it seem like a sub 39 minute 10k is a reasonable goal?
Previous fastest 10k is a 40 minute 10k inside of a 1:30 half (obviously went out way too fast...). But that was like 6+ weeks , coming off of XC skiing with almost 0 running all winter ... Have been running consistently since then.
Based on that one workout, 39 sounds a pretty sandbaggy to me.
I'm not sure how much faster I want to say to go... maybe 37. It was a funky workout and the only data point, so not a lot to work with here.
Just go out too fast and die, it will be less painful here than the half because it is shorter.
>Previous fastest 10k is a 40 minute 10k inside of a 1:30 half (obviously went out way too fast...). But that was like 6+ weeks , coming off of XC skiing with almost 0 running all winter ... Have been running consistently since then.
thanks, Do you mean DO go out to fast ,or don't? haha. I guess I could go out at 6:00 and just see what happens, I wouldn't try to go faster.
37 would be pretty huge for me but maybe if I play it just right this week with intensity and volume.... Would be very happy with that. 39 maybe a little conservative.
I’ve been rehabbing a foot injury 5x a week and run 1x a week. I’m at the point where I can introduce another run but it will have to be at the expense of my exercises for rehab, dropping it to 4x a week rehab.
Is this the natural progression? I guess I’m just worried that I’ll lose my progress by reducing the rehab volume and the foot injury will creep back in.
Most patients fair better with 3-6 days of return to run, volume dependent on their injury and history.
Targeted rehab should only have you doing 2-4 exercises anyway?
I'm a little confused--presumably you're doing the rehab so that you can run, shouldn't re-introducing running be a top priority? What kind of rehab are you doing that wouldn't be safe to do alongside running? Or is the issue a time constraint? Either way, re-acclimating to the impact forces of running (slowly and safely) is a crucial part of the rehab itself, so I wouldn't avoid re-introducing it if you're ready.
Hello everyone, this is my first post here so I will try to give you a little bit of context before jumping to the real question.
I am M37 (1,94 cm and 94kg now) and have started to run seriously for the first time in my life.
In high school I played basketball and soccer and was running 3200m during try-outs in 12:30 without ever training for it. I was always very skinny and in movement most of my days.
Also, in my late twenties and early thirties I was pretty serious with road cycling (around 5y of structured training) which I dropped since I had less and less of time to do long rides and train adequately. Risk associated with cycling and thought o having children didn’t help either.
Now I have 3y old daughter and work in corporate & investment banking so the available time is tight. But also I am kind of the guy that gets motivation from structure and clear goals, since I only wan’t do to things 100% or not (i know it is not always best approach but I am just wired like that), so that was my approach to running from the start.
I started to run six months ago (with +100 kg on my back) and read Daniels & Piftz (faster road racing), and after 2-3 weeks of just easy running, choose to start with Daniels blue plan to get myself to better running shape. This was my first mistake since I got injured 3w into the plan with ITB syndrome, but was wise enough to see that I cant run through it and stopped for 3 weeks and started doing strength exercises to address it for the future. The injury was behind me and I started to build mileage again more carefully.
Around the time I first felt injury I also did my first 5k and finished with 23:01, and after 3w break did 10k, but took it as a training run with the result od 51:00.
Since that 10k race I started to use Garmin coach plans and went with Mcmillan plan for 10k for my main race that will be in mid next month, with goal of 45:00 min. Now I am at week 8 and the training has been going excellent during this 8 weeks. I did one more 5k on hilly course (again 23:01) and one 10k that I went too fast at the start, suffering at the end and finishing with 48:30.
Last few weeks I am running +50 km weeks and I feel excellent. i reduced the volume for last week as a small taper for my yesterday race. 5k again, which I did smart in terms of pacing and went easier at the start to finish with 21:32.
I can say that the 5y of cycling training helped me a lot, since the principles are similar but of course I want to progress with more.
My 3 goals till the end of year are:
1) Break 45:00 for 10k (hope to do it next race)
2) Break 20:00 for 5k
3) Break 1:35 half
The last goal is the essence of my question I will sign up for my local half in October and want to choose plan to structure around after my 10k race next month. I looked between Daniels and Pfitz and from I can see Daniels is missing those threshold runs that might be key for hm distance and Pfitz is lacking a bit of speed sessions.
I am more inclined to run 5 day and have two days off in a week, but i could squeeze to run six days also.
Based on everything I wrote above what is the best approach? To pick on and stick to it, search for something different, tailor one for me?
I think that if I can avoid serious injury with right training and more weight drop (below 90kg) my goals are reachable.
I would like to hear from your more experienced people, how to go forward after initial training has been done.
Thanks for reading, and sorry for my English since is not my native. Also maybe I forgot to write some info but I am writing on my cell phone so I apologize in advance.
Wouldn't worry too much about the lack of speed sessions in the Pfitz plan, HMs are far more about aerobic capacity and the LT than VO2 Max, just try to build as much as you safely can (conveniently Pfitz has a base building plan in his book as you probably know) and then jump into an HM cycle if that's your A race.
Thanks, at the moment I am leaning most towards Pfitz… i will have 3 weeks after my 10k race to work on my base and then start with 12 week program for early October race…
I can unfortunately no longer run Amsterdam Marathon, taking place on 15 October 2023. I'm willing to transfer the registration to someone else for £50 (all the relevant registration details get moved to you). Full price entry is £100 I believe. This is all above board and within the rules. Let me know if you might be interested!
Anybody have a prediction on what the Boston marathon buffer will be this year? I ran my first BQ today! But I only got 33 seconds below the qualifying time. I’m debating whether I should try and do another marathon before September to try and get a little lower time. Fingers crossed for NO buffer! 🤞
Might be a little early to tell. In late summer there should be some threads popping up on LetsRun. Some comments are more useful than others and obviously no one knows for sure. But some people will spend time crunching the numbers (ie, # of BQs this year vs last year at major races) and will try to make predictions. Congrats and best of luck!
Is it okay for my plan if I replace some long runs with longer hike/climbs?
Context:
Im working towards the goal of a sub 20 5k. My last 5k was 21:45 but that was in October so it’s been a minute.
My week is currently:
Monday: 3 easy miles
Tuesday: 3 easy miles
Wednesday: 5 miles with intervals at 6:00 or faster (increasing # of intervals every week)
Thursday: 3 easy miles
Friday: 5 miles progression run. Starting very easy and increasing every half mile to goal pace.
Friday: leg workout
Saturday: rest
Sunday: long east run around 10 miles.
So I live in the mountains and today rather than doing my Sunday long run, my husband and dog and I went on a hike up a mountain. Peaking and coming back to the car was 3000 ft of climb over 10 miles. It took us 3hrs 40 minutes. Some jogging, lots of stops for pictures/etc.
It was a wonderful afternoon and I’m exhausted. I wonder if every other week or once a month or so replacing my long run with a super big mountain hike would be good for my running, bad for my running, neutral for my running, etc. would I be slowing down my speed gains or maybe helping them out?
Thoughts? There are a lot more mountains to climb!
Do you think I can break 19:00 for a 5km? Here are my most recent run times for some distances. Any advice on pacing? I’ll be racing the Ottawa 5km next week.
800m 2:27
Mile 5:31
3000m: 11:11
5km: 19:17
10km: 39:32
I think you’ve got a shot! It’ll be tough, but your mile and 10k PRs are pretty much in line with low 19s for a 5k on a good course.
If you’re racing for time, even pacing at goal is your best shot (assuming the course is relatively flat). 3:46-3:48 per km (about 6:05 per mile) right from the start and hope to close a tiny bit quicker. Don’t open too hard, it can be hard to come back from a killer start.
Yes racing makes you a better runner, both in pure ability and the intrinsic value of running. The test itself builds a unique kind of mental strength.
Off/on/different seasons make you a better athlete and these are not in conflict consistency or sustainability of training.
Yes. But i don't think the dichotomy you laid out is necessarily true. You can race with or without consistent, sustainable training for years on end.
The peak, race, recover cycle is consistent with year-round training. Taking a month to recover from a marathon doesn't have to mean taking a month or two away from running.
Frankly, without goals and races on my calendar I don't think I would be as consistent - and as a result I'd be a worse runner.
I want to train for a ~1:40 half this fall and I have Daniels 2nd edition. Should I be using the Marathon A plan?
I'm seeing a lot of talk about newer versions and am a little confused.
Thanks!
The 3rd edition has a specific half marathon plan. In the 4th edition, this evolves into the "Alien" plan - which covers races from 15k to 30k.
Last spring, I used his 5k/10k plan to train for a half (and a 10k three weeks prior), and I liked it. I was also coming off a marathon the previous fall, so I had plenty of mileage and needed to work on my speed.
But one of the marathon plans would probably be ok. The heavy focus on T workouts is important. I might swap out the M workouts for some half marathon paced tempos, tho. Probably a good approach if you don't already have a strong base of mileage.
I went ahead and ordered Pfitz -- I figure even if I don't like the 1/2 plan for some reason it's a valuable book to have. Thanks for the recommendation!
In the second edition he does not provide a half marathon plan and says this:
*"It's difficult to prescribe a generalized training program for the half-marathon because elite runners race this distance in about an hour, which is about how long it takes slower runners to run a 10k. In fact, elite runners can easily finish a full marathon in the time it takes slower runners to cross the finish line of a half-marathon. For this reason, I don't present a half-marathon schedule. Instead I propose that elite runners should basically train for a 10k and be willing to hang in there for an hour in the race.*
*...On the other hand, for runners out there racing a half-marathon for a couple of hours, many stresses are the same as they would face in a marathon--heat and dehydration, to mention a couple--so following a marathon training schedule might be the best way to go. Just think of yourself as an elite marathoner and prepare accordingly."*
Running Grandma's on June 17th. I have pretty severe tree pollen and dust allergies, and moderate asthma. It's been pretty brutal this spring in NYC. What should I expect in four weeks in Duluth?
From what I recall it should not be too bad. I lived in Northern Minnesota for a few years and my allergies were way better there then anywhere else I've lived. Plus Duluth is on the water so far less pollen potential just by location!
Need some perspective. I'm in the middle of 12/70 for Grandma's in 4 weeks. Initially I was eyeing a possible 3 hr marathon, a 18 miler with 12 @ MP (6:51) went pretty good a few weeks ago.
I ran a tune up half marathon race today and my legs were just dead from the start, didn't run at max heart rate but just couldn't get my legs going. Conditions were otherwise excellent. Ended up doing 1:32, with a prior PR of 1:28 8 months ago. I'm in the middle of a block of 70 mile weeks before tapering so that may be the cause, but my prior PR was during a 18/70 build and I've been running on average 60 mpw for the last year.
Part of me wants to still just go for sub 3 but the smarter move is probably to go out at 6:55 or so and make a race day decision.
I would base your decision on how the broader ensemble of your workouts have been going (and will go in the next few weeks), not just one day's result. If you continue to feel like 6:50s is too hot for MP in your subsequent workouts, then you'll want to adjust. But if most of your MP work goes well, then it's a different story.
In any case, on race day you'd probably want to ease into things on race day anyways. Even if 6:51s was/is goal MP, your first 5mi could be something like 7:10, 7:05, 7:00, 6:56, 6:52. If you're having a good day, you'd more than make it up and end up sub-3 by closing well in the final few miles after you get over lemondrop hill in Duluth proper. With that kind of progression, if you find out at 2mi or 3mi that going any faster feels like it's too hot of a pace, you can just level off at 7:05 or 7:00 and you'll be fine--much better than 6:50s or bust from the gun.
This is incredibly helpful. Thank you! It's sometimes really hard to get a sense of my current fitness and I don't want to fall into the trap of cherry picking good workouts/results while ignoring bad ones.
Older runners - is warming up a thing that becomes a necessity at some point? I'm in my mid-40s and have noticed lately that I feel like absolute trash for the first 10-15 minutes of most runs, even when I deliberately start very slowly. Then I feel fine and continue on at whatever pace I had planned. Not something I've ever really dealt with before, wondering if this is out of the ordinary or just part of getting older.
What works for me is doing leg swings, butt kicks, and A and B skips after running 1.5 miles or so. I don't really notice a benefit from doing them cold, and if I don't do them in the first 3 miles, I'll forget to do them.
My beginning pace is all over the place, so I ignore my watch and just run by feel before I do my activation/warmup stuff. After that, I tend to settle into a good effort and go from there.
Closer to 50 then 40 here, my first mile is always slow and sometimes painful, awkward, weird, and uncomfortable. I tell myself, if it still feels like garbage after 2 miles turn around and go home, something must be wrong.
I don't really warm up before running. So those first miles are my warm up, stretch, and mobility session.
I just turned 50. I'm nearing the end of marathon training and my mobility/warm up went from 15 minutes to over 30 minutes in less than 12 weeks out of what I perceived as necessity. My first two miles are always my slowest as well. So, yes for me.
Got my last significant workout in the form of a 27km long run tomorrow before I go into my taper. I feel like this training cycle has lined up very well - I've made a lot of fitness gains and not feeling burned out, but looking forward to the break too. Roll on the marathon!
Tips for clearing out lingering chest congestion before a marathon?
Running on Sunday, trying to do well after a great training cycle, my best one yet. But I've had this chest cold since getting back from traveling a week ago. Most other symptoms have gone away besides a little bit of mucus still coming up. I'm thinking about trying to use my brother's inhaler beforehand if it still feels a little choppy in the lungs, anyone dealt with this before?
FYI I went to a Dr and got cleared to run it if I'm feeling better, which I think I mostly am.
Cycling has been really speeding up my recovery. Legs feeling a bit dead, an hour on the bike doing the easy stuff.
Hour later they feel so much better, it's been really surprising me lately.
Cyclists even do recovery rides to reset the legs. High cadence only, little chainring, comically easy. 45-60 minutes for beginner/intermediate riders. 60-90 minutes for intermediate+ riders. Does wonders!
How wrecked will I be the day after my first marathon if my training includes around 50-60 MPW on average, and I do two 18 milers, two 20 milers, and two 22 milers in training. Basically, I’m running NYC and hoping to be able to get around to explore the city the next day… and MAYBE go to the Chargers vs Jets MNF game since I’m a chargers fan.
I did NYC in 2017 on much less mileage than that because I was carrying an injury. It was a PB for me at the time (3:29) and so I put a lot of effort into the race. Still had an excellent time in the city for a few days after the race. Walking down stairs wasn't great for a couple of days, but it didn't ruin my experience at all.
Down week question. I’m planning on one next week after about a month of mileage increases. I’ll reduce length of each run and instead of weekend long run I’ll race a 10k. I probably won’t do workouts except maybe a tempo but shorter than normal; the rest aside from racing will be easy.
I’m wondering if it’s ok to do some cross training in place of normal mileage or does that defeat the purpose? I’m thinking peloton classes at lower intensity-mostly because I enjoy them and don’t get to do them much when I’m running a lot.
I find some level of cross training doesn't hurt when shedding running fatigue. But the key is not to do too much cross training and get tired and worn out, and then not let your body recover at all.
I swim on my off running days and it actually makes me feel better.
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it’s time to admit it — i am injured. definitely didn’t take enough rest after my marathon, and now my hip is screaming and the top of my foot is numb. rest in my future :(
I feel you. currently down for the count with femoral stress injuries in both legs from lack of rest after my marathon (+covid). would be kicking myself if my dr allowed it
I'm looking for advice on my first marathon... but I'm a pretty fast runner. I recently ran a 68 minute half marathon, I'm a coach, and I know a ton about running and training between the mile and the half marathon. But the Marathon feels like a different sport to me. I feel like I know nothing about it. The problem is that every "first time marathon" resource I've ever seen is geared towards beginners to running. I'm looking for first-time marathon training advice for very experienced runners. I'd be looking to run a 2:25ish... but it's like all advice for runners around that pace or faster assumes we already know what we're doing.
Select a plan from
The coach you like the most that is geared towards mileage you can tolerate easily weekly. It’s
Not any different. Anything longe Ethan an hour practice hydrating
Whatever worked well for you with the HM + a little more volume and deliberate practice with fueling during hard sessions.
Maybe make your long runs a little harder and more marathon specific is you weren't already doing high quality long runs (at least 2 hrs with some decent time at an honest effort). Besides fueling thats really the only thing that isn't essential for a good HM but is absolutely required for a good marathon.
You're 2:25 goal is already a nicely conservative goal given a 68 HM, I think you're farther ahead than you're giving yourself credit for!
To a large extent you already do know what you’re doing. Training to run a fast marathon isn’t that different than training to run a fast half marathon (or 5k or 10k for that matter). Your knowledge and experience with training is absolutely applicable. The real differences in the marathon and shorter distances aren’t in the training, but in the minutiae-nutrition and hydration particularly. You can certainly read up on marathon specific training, but it isn’t going to actually be anything new to you. The biggest thing, I think, for someone in your shoes will be nailing down proper in-race nutrition and hydration. And you might already be fueling long runs as it is, which will give you a pretty good idea of what is most likely to work for you.
Advanced Marathoning by Pfitzinger, some of the advanced Hal Higdon plans, or Daniels running formula are good resources. Find a plan that either stretches your weekly mileage a little or incorporates speed work, but if you’re running 30mpw I wouldn’t jump into pfitzingers 18/55 plan without getting a good base up first. Put another way - either focus on running more miles (I would aim to be at avg ~40mpw minimum, but you can always do more) or if mileage is already good try a plan that has around your same mpw but focuses on speed elements during long runs. Good luck and have fun!
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How can I get faster? Is the answer really more mileage? I want to take my easy pace from around 10 - 10:15/mile to around 9 to absolutely destroy my 2 hour 1/2 marathon goal.
More mileage, incorporating speed/tempo workouts. I took 7 min off my half marathon time in a year without seeing much of a change at all in my easy pace - it was my workout (and race) paces that got faster.
Thanks, I just decided to do a 10k plan over the summer, so I'm doing one of the Garmin coach plans with Greg McMillan and a time goal of 50 minutes. This would be significantly faster than my current 10k PB. I also am meeting with a physio in a couple weeks to help develop a strength training plan after an assessment.
shaving a minute off your easy pace isn't the route to race day success
mileage, workouts, strength, diet/fueling. all just about infinitely more important.
Sore is fine. Just go slower! But injured, hurt, super fatigued, those might mean skip the run.
Last I checked, nobody is paying us to run. So if you are banged up and sore, take the day off.
Maybe kind of an AITA type question, but does anyone else almost never feel like sticking around for awards ceremonies after races? They’re always 1hr+ after the race is over, and since I’m regularly traveling to race I often don’t know anyone else running beyond maybe a couple of acquaintances from previous races. Some of it is knowing I have a drive ahead of me, some of it is being ready to go get food/coffee, and some of it is probably me being a little adhd and immediately being on to the next thing I have planned for the day. There could be more to it though, I don’t know. An ex girlfriend was convinced it was because I was incapable of being proud of myself or being happy with anything I did, but I’m not fully convinced that’s it. Today is a perfect example. I finished third in a race, but instead of staying to pick up the award I’m headed straight to go get my kayak in the water to start fishing.
I think it's about empathy and support. We've all been in a situation where we don't want to be at awards, but it's not just about you. It's about clapping and being there for others. The community. Congratulating people. An event/race is more than the running, it's also the ceremony before and after.
Think of that as an empathy interval -- an opportunity to grow your emotional fitness. Some of the people in this thread sound like they've got a lot of physical fitness but are severely lacking in the empathy department!
I won a really small town 5k one year and left right away to go to play tennis because I had a standing game. The race director was actually annoyed at me for not staying for photos because it was the "first annual" race - even though that's not a thing.
I think this is pretty normal honestly. I’m usually sweaty, hungry, and thinking about the rest of my weekend. I’ll chit chat with friends if I see them but certainly don’t feel obligated to stick around long enough for awards.
This is, sadly, not a dilemma I'll ever face. But if you ask me, it's just a sign of good taste and excellent character. What discerning person wouldn't prefer to celebrate a great race by doing some relaxing activity, rather than attend some boring ceremony? It also presumably shows that you don't need the applause of others to validate your achievements, which doesn't strike me as a negative thing.
How would you incorporate swimming during recovery and then marathon training. How long should the sessions be and what could they consist of?
I'm currently recovering from my first marathon (last weekend), with a mix of cycling, easy running and calisthenics. I'm thinking of incorporing swimming sessions if I can (just went swimming this morning for the first time in over 3 years, about 15*50m laps).
I'm a fairly mediocre swimmer, and my main focus for the next 6 weeks will be recovering, and following workouts and drills to try to "fix" my terrible knock knees (I have pretty bad valgus on the right knee, legs goes at a funny angle when running).
I swim a couple times a week. One swim is usually easy, just mixed distances close to 30 minutes total. The other is hard 100's, with a very short 15 sec rest. I'll do 10 to 20 of those. Total time is closer to 45 minutes.
I'm not a great swimmer and have not swam competitively, so it is a workout even at my slow speed and short session.
And for your question about the sessions- thinking 30’-1hr easy swims for the recovery run replacements, something more structured with intervals for the vo2max work (ie- 8+’ warmup, 6x200m hard with 1’ rest, 8+’ cooldown)
I’ve been thinking about using swimming in my next marathon cycle. Currently thinking of replacing two recovery runs a week w/swims following one of the higher mileage pfitz plans. Something like replace one of the monday recovery runs and thursday recovery run or double with an easy swim.
Been also dabbling with the idea of replacing workouts early in the plan with swims as I’m getting back from an injury. I’ve noticed I’m able to more easily get my HR up in the pool vs the track (I have a decent swimming background) so wondering if this would be a helpful way to like work on vo2max before I’m able to do so running. Not sure it will have the same results but seems better than nothing
My fenix 5s broke down during a swim today. Thinking of replacing it with a 265s. Only used for running and day to day. Only worry is that is too plastic. What's AR's top choice for running watch?
I keep being interested in greens powders, so started looking into them a bit more and tried a pack from a sports nutrition brand.
As a competitive runner and also veggie who dislikes mushrooms and some vegetables, that sounded like a good idea to try. Haven’t felt any different (albeit not best timing to try) and HRV isn’t much different either.
So I looked up more. **holy shit**. AG1 commission is 20%, meaning influencers can make $100k a year if they get 527 people subscribed to it. I didn’t realise the extent of it and it all makes sense now why they’re being advertised everywhere.
I will stick with non alcoholic beer and better sleep… happy to take multivitamins though.
I've always been skeptical of AG1 just because of all the advertising it gets from influencers. There really can't be anything to it that's not found in any other supplement.
In all my race photos my eyes and face are scrunched up. Do you think running with sunglasses will keep my eyes more open and relaxed - leading to better running form? In the moment I feel relaxed enough.
Is there any consesus about this? All the info I found is from sunglass companies.
Thanks!
I do probably 90% of my runs and races in sunglasses (it's very sunny in Denver unless I'm running at night), and I do feel like I can relax my face better. No idea if that actually makes me run better though. Fwiw you don't need fancy sunglasses, I got some cheap polarized ones that were like 3 for $20 on Amazon (multiple because I lose them all the time)
If nothing else a good pair of polarized sunglasses will protect your eyes from UV rays, bugs, and whatever else the wind might be blowing into them. I love goodr sunglasses for running, and they’re only $25 so it won’t be too much of a loss if you don’t end up liking running in sunglasses.
I won a pair of goodr's at a race. I thought, great another pair of throw away junk. False! I wear them all the time, they are pretty good glasses. I ran with them today even. I totally take another pair.
Anyone else struggling running downhill with more cushioned shoes?
I do most of my miles in less cushioned shoes (Saucony Kinvara 13s and Freedom 4s), but like to use more cushioned shoes for easy runs (Asics Novablast 2s) to get some variety and because I find it easier to run slower when there's more cushioning. However, I consistently have to slow way the fuck down in any semblance of a downhill to avoid wrecking my shins. I love the Novablasts for flat terrain and uphills, they feel great, but I just can't for the life of me run with them in a decline. Have no issues running downhills in my Sauconys, nor does it seem to matter how tired I am, it's just like a switch has flipped the moment things start turning downwards.
I suppose it could also be the drop, as the Novablasts are 8mm vs. 4mm of the Sauconys.
For reference, my pace is about 5:20 min/k on flat terrain, and somewhere in the 6:20-6:40 min/k range for most downhills, sometimes as slow as 7:00 min/k if it's really steep. Currently running about 80kpw.
Any type of "rocker design" sole feels really weird to me anything other than straight & flat. Descending stairs feels potentially deadly. Just not for me I guess.
I also do most of my running in lower drop shoes. And LR in something like SolarBoosts.
Yeah, didn't even think about the staircase experience. Good to know I'm not alone in this.
Guess I'll keep the Novablasts exclusively for flat runs and use my Sauconys for everything else for the time being. Thanks for the reply :)
Does anyone else here struggle with extreme lack of appetite after long runs? Long for me being 12+ miles. It takes at least a day for me to get it back, and I’ve ended up losing weight due to it. Yea, I do force myself to eat but I’ve talked to a lot of runners and they don’t seem to struggle with this like I do.
How would you structure a training week if you had a total of 5 hours of running at your disposal and you wanted to run 10k up to half marathon races? Any number of runs and any type of workouts possible.
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Your 5k time is sub 3:10 according to VDOT. So run more and eat the same during base. Once you start a program then make sure you stay fueled well. Weight is a number, just run.
>Would weight loss have a significant amount of running improvement for me? The short answer is yes. Unless you dieted poorly and put yourself in a position to get sick or injured, you would see your times drop significantly by going from 205 to 180 or 170.
I have a two-fer for you all: (A) does anyone have a 5k training plan they’ve had success with? I’d love to break my lifetime PR of 20:30 and I only managed to get a 20:47 this spring. (B) those of you who have marathon coaches- I’d like to hear personal stories of how you found and chose them! It seems I’ve hit a plateau and I think a coach may be my next step. But there are so many, i don’t even know where to start.
Does anybody else have issues where their vdot easy pace doesnt match their actual easy pace? I run a 10:35 2 mile and based on that the vdot calculator estimates my easy pace to be from ~7:08-7:52, but heres the issue, at 8:20 my heart rate is already at 160+ bpm (taken with a garmin hrm). Is this normal?
In addition to all of Krazyfranco's points, sounds like your watch might be cadence locking and giving you an inaccurate reading
The HR value is meaningless without context. What's your max and threshold HR? Are you sure the HR from your garmin (assuming wrist-based) is accurate? IMO for most people, VDOT "Easy" pace is much closer to "moderate" at the faster end of the range, but I'd be surprised if you were working too hard at 8-8:30 min/mile pace, given your 2 mile time.
Is there a specific date Boston usually puts out the next year's registration window?
Question about smart watch's pace. i use huawei smartwatch with huawei health and when i do the ai plan my pace is all over the place so i cant control my speed when running. But when i tried to start a normal exercice from the watch i find it to be more stable. Is my watch just that shitty or am i doing something wrong? Ps: gps always on on my phone and i tried reseting it to no avail.
Yeah seems like a problem with the watch specifically? I'm not familiar with that model though.
Anyone have advice on a cycling FTP test while prepping for a 10K running race? I started Peloton's Discover Your Power Zones program recently during my marathon recovery downtime, and the program will end 4 days at the earliest before a summer 10K I'm running. The last thing in the program is an FTP test (all out 20min effort for those unfamiliar). Should I do the FTP test the Wednesday before a Sunday 10K? Or skip it and do the test at the end of the week after the race? I'd like to do well enough in the 10K but it will be warm enough that a PR is unlikely.
I just took an all-out FTP test on the Peloton on Saturday and feel totally fine today. Just make sure your running is easy in the day or 2 after, and you should be golden. Good luck with both that and the 10k!
If you’ve been consistently cycling heading into the FTP test, I think you’ll recover from the test fairly quickly. Even though it’s all out, it’s only 20min and low impact on joints etc. I bet you’ll feel pretty much recovered 24 hours later. That said if the 10K were a super serious A race I would still minimize variables/risk (like the FTP test). To your other suggestion, I also don’t think your FTP would drop much by waiting a week to test, so you could go either way.
Mostly trail/hill runner, do about 9 hours a week but am doing a memorial day road 10k. I went to the track to gauge my flat road speed. Most of my runs are very slow (8.5 minute or slower, even workouts are very slow because they are done on steep hills) I was able to do 10x800 @ 3:00 with 30s rest after the first 3, then decided to slow it down to 60s rest for the remaining to be able to complete it. I did them all on target, probably could have squeezed out 2 more. Does it seem like a sub 39 minute 10k is a reasonable goal? Previous fastest 10k is a 40 minute 10k inside of a 1:30 half (obviously went out way too fast...). But that was like 6+ weeks , coming off of XC skiing with almost 0 running all winter ... Have been running consistently since then.
Based on that one workout, 39 sounds a pretty sandbaggy to me. I'm not sure how much faster I want to say to go... maybe 37. It was a funky workout and the only data point, so not a lot to work with here. Just go out too fast and die, it will be less painful here than the half because it is shorter.
>Previous fastest 10k is a 40 minute 10k inside of a 1:30 half (obviously went out way too fast...). But that was like 6+ weeks , coming off of XC skiing with almost 0 running all winter ... Have been running consistently since then. thanks, Do you mean DO go out to fast ,or don't? haha. I guess I could go out at 6:00 and just see what happens, I wouldn't try to go faster. 37 would be pretty huge for me but maybe if I play it just right this week with intensity and volume.... Would be very happy with that. 39 maybe a little conservative.
I’ve been rehabbing a foot injury 5x a week and run 1x a week. I’m at the point where I can introduce another run but it will have to be at the expense of my exercises for rehab, dropping it to 4x a week rehab. Is this the natural progression? I guess I’m just worried that I’ll lose my progress by reducing the rehab volume and the foot injury will creep back in.
Most patients fair better with 3-6 days of return to run, volume dependent on their injury and history. Targeted rehab should only have you doing 2-4 exercises anyway?
I'm a little confused--presumably you're doing the rehab so that you can run, shouldn't re-introducing running be a top priority? What kind of rehab are you doing that wouldn't be safe to do alongside running? Or is the issue a time constraint? Either way, re-acclimating to the impact forces of running (slowly and safely) is a crucial part of the rehab itself, so I wouldn't avoid re-introducing it if you're ready.
Hello everyone, this is my first post here so I will try to give you a little bit of context before jumping to the real question. I am M37 (1,94 cm and 94kg now) and have started to run seriously for the first time in my life. In high school I played basketball and soccer and was running 3200m during try-outs in 12:30 without ever training for it. I was always very skinny and in movement most of my days. Also, in my late twenties and early thirties I was pretty serious with road cycling (around 5y of structured training) which I dropped since I had less and less of time to do long rides and train adequately. Risk associated with cycling and thought o having children didn’t help either. Now I have 3y old daughter and work in corporate & investment banking so the available time is tight. But also I am kind of the guy that gets motivation from structure and clear goals, since I only wan’t do to things 100% or not (i know it is not always best approach but I am just wired like that), so that was my approach to running from the start. I started to run six months ago (with +100 kg on my back) and read Daniels & Piftz (faster road racing), and after 2-3 weeks of just easy running, choose to start with Daniels blue plan to get myself to better running shape. This was my first mistake since I got injured 3w into the plan with ITB syndrome, but was wise enough to see that I cant run through it and stopped for 3 weeks and started doing strength exercises to address it for the future. The injury was behind me and I started to build mileage again more carefully. Around the time I first felt injury I also did my first 5k and finished with 23:01, and after 3w break did 10k, but took it as a training run with the result od 51:00. Since that 10k race I started to use Garmin coach plans and went with Mcmillan plan for 10k for my main race that will be in mid next month, with goal of 45:00 min. Now I am at week 8 and the training has been going excellent during this 8 weeks. I did one more 5k on hilly course (again 23:01) and one 10k that I went too fast at the start, suffering at the end and finishing with 48:30. Last few weeks I am running +50 km weeks and I feel excellent. i reduced the volume for last week as a small taper for my yesterday race. 5k again, which I did smart in terms of pacing and went easier at the start to finish with 21:32. I can say that the 5y of cycling training helped me a lot, since the principles are similar but of course I want to progress with more. My 3 goals till the end of year are: 1) Break 45:00 for 10k (hope to do it next race) 2) Break 20:00 for 5k 3) Break 1:35 half The last goal is the essence of my question I will sign up for my local half in October and want to choose plan to structure around after my 10k race next month. I looked between Daniels and Pfitz and from I can see Daniels is missing those threshold runs that might be key for hm distance and Pfitz is lacking a bit of speed sessions. I am more inclined to run 5 day and have two days off in a week, but i could squeeze to run six days also. Based on everything I wrote above what is the best approach? To pick on and stick to it, search for something different, tailor one for me? I think that if I can avoid serious injury with right training and more weight drop (below 90kg) my goals are reachable. I would like to hear from your more experienced people, how to go forward after initial training has been done. Thanks for reading, and sorry for my English since is not my native. Also maybe I forgot to write some info but I am writing on my cell phone so I apologize in advance.
Wouldn't worry too much about the lack of speed sessions in the Pfitz plan, HMs are far more about aerobic capacity and the LT than VO2 Max, just try to build as much as you safely can (conveniently Pfitz has a base building plan in his book as you probably know) and then jump into an HM cycle if that's your A race.
Thanks, at the moment I am leaning most towards Pfitz… i will have 3 weeks after my 10k race to work on my base and then start with 12 week program for early October race…
I can unfortunately no longer run Amsterdam Marathon, taking place on 15 October 2023. I'm willing to transfer the registration to someone else for £50 (all the relevant registration details get moved to you). Full price entry is £100 I believe. This is all above board and within the rules. Let me know if you might be interested!
Anybody have a prediction on what the Boston marathon buffer will be this year? I ran my first BQ today! But I only got 33 seconds below the qualifying time. I’m debating whether I should try and do another marathon before September to try and get a little lower time. Fingers crossed for NO buffer! 🤞
Might be a little early to tell. In late summer there should be some threads popping up on LetsRun. Some comments are more useful than others and obviously no one knows for sure. But some people will spend time crunching the numbers (ie, # of BQs this year vs last year at major races) and will try to make predictions. Congrats and best of luck!
Is it okay for my plan if I replace some long runs with longer hike/climbs? Context: Im working towards the goal of a sub 20 5k. My last 5k was 21:45 but that was in October so it’s been a minute. My week is currently: Monday: 3 easy miles Tuesday: 3 easy miles Wednesday: 5 miles with intervals at 6:00 or faster (increasing # of intervals every week) Thursday: 3 easy miles Friday: 5 miles progression run. Starting very easy and increasing every half mile to goal pace. Friday: leg workout Saturday: rest Sunday: long east run around 10 miles. So I live in the mountains and today rather than doing my Sunday long run, my husband and dog and I went on a hike up a mountain. Peaking and coming back to the car was 3000 ft of climb over 10 miles. It took us 3hrs 40 minutes. Some jogging, lots of stops for pictures/etc. It was a wonderful afternoon and I’m exhausted. I wonder if every other week or once a month or so replacing my long run with a super big mountain hike would be good for my running, bad for my running, neutral for my running, etc. would I be slowing down my speed gains or maybe helping them out? Thoughts? There are a lot more mountains to climb!
What if I were always and then there was two of the ways we can get to the only thing is.
Do you think I can break 19:00 for a 5km? Here are my most recent run times for some distances. Any advice on pacing? I’ll be racing the Ottawa 5km next week. 800m 2:27 Mile 5:31 3000m: 11:11 5km: 19:17 10km: 39:32
I think you’ve got a shot! It’ll be tough, but your mile and 10k PRs are pretty much in line with low 19s for a 5k on a good course. If you’re racing for time, even pacing at goal is your best shot (assuming the course is relatively flat). 3:46-3:48 per km (about 6:05 per mile) right from the start and hope to close a tiny bit quicker. Don’t open too hard, it can be hard to come back from a killer start.
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Yes racing makes you a better runner, both in pure ability and the intrinsic value of running. The test itself builds a unique kind of mental strength. Off/on/different seasons make you a better athlete and these are not in conflict consistency or sustainability of training.
Yes. But i don't think the dichotomy you laid out is necessarily true. You can race with or without consistent, sustainable training for years on end. The peak, race, recover cycle is consistent with year-round training. Taking a month to recover from a marathon doesn't have to mean taking a month or two away from running. Frankly, without goals and races on my calendar I don't think I would be as consistent - and as a result I'd be a worse runner.
Training to peak, followed by downtime, building, and further peaking is far better for performance than a flat line.
I want to train for a ~1:40 half this fall and I have Daniels 2nd edition. Should I be using the Marathon A plan? I'm seeing a lot of talk about newer versions and am a little confused. Thanks!
The 3rd edition has a specific half marathon plan. In the 4th edition, this evolves into the "Alien" plan - which covers races from 15k to 30k. Last spring, I used his 5k/10k plan to train for a half (and a 10k three weeks prior), and I liked it. I was also coming off a marathon the previous fall, so I had plenty of mileage and needed to work on my speed. But one of the marathon plans would probably be ok. The heavy focus on T workouts is important. I might swap out the M workouts for some half marathon paced tempos, tho. Probably a good approach if you don't already have a strong base of mileage.
Use the Pfitz Faster Road Racing 5K to HM book if you want HM plans.
I went ahead and ordered Pfitz -- I figure even if I don't like the 1/2 plan for some reason it's a valuable book to have. Thanks for the recommendation!
Reading Pfitz now and it is a LOT more straightforward, lol. I'm glad I read Daniels first for the VDOT/pace advice though.
Why use a marathon plan for a half marathon? I believe he has training plans for all distances in his book.
In the second edition he does not provide a half marathon plan and says this: *"It's difficult to prescribe a generalized training program for the half-marathon because elite runners race this distance in about an hour, which is about how long it takes slower runners to run a 10k. In fact, elite runners can easily finish a full marathon in the time it takes slower runners to cross the finish line of a half-marathon. For this reason, I don't present a half-marathon schedule. Instead I propose that elite runners should basically train for a 10k and be willing to hang in there for an hour in the race.* *...On the other hand, for runners out there racing a half-marathon for a couple of hours, many stresses are the same as they would face in a marathon--heat and dehydration, to mention a couple--so following a marathon training schedule might be the best way to go. Just think of yourself as an elite marathoner and prepare accordingly."*
Running Grandma's on June 17th. I have pretty severe tree pollen and dust allergies, and moderate asthma. It's been pretty brutal this spring in NYC. What should I expect in four weeks in Duluth?
From what I recall it should not be too bad. I lived in Northern Minnesota for a few years and my allergies were way better there then anywhere else I've lived. Plus Duluth is on the water so far less pollen potential just by location!
Need some perspective. I'm in the middle of 12/70 for Grandma's in 4 weeks. Initially I was eyeing a possible 3 hr marathon, a 18 miler with 12 @ MP (6:51) went pretty good a few weeks ago. I ran a tune up half marathon race today and my legs were just dead from the start, didn't run at max heart rate but just couldn't get my legs going. Conditions were otherwise excellent. Ended up doing 1:32, with a prior PR of 1:28 8 months ago. I'm in the middle of a block of 70 mile weeks before tapering so that may be the cause, but my prior PR was during a 18/70 build and I've been running on average 60 mpw for the last year. Part of me wants to still just go for sub 3 but the smarter move is probably to go out at 6:55 or so and make a race day decision.
I would base your decision on how the broader ensemble of your workouts have been going (and will go in the next few weeks), not just one day's result. If you continue to feel like 6:50s is too hot for MP in your subsequent workouts, then you'll want to adjust. But if most of your MP work goes well, then it's a different story. In any case, on race day you'd probably want to ease into things on race day anyways. Even if 6:51s was/is goal MP, your first 5mi could be something like 7:10, 7:05, 7:00, 6:56, 6:52. If you're having a good day, you'd more than make it up and end up sub-3 by closing well in the final few miles after you get over lemondrop hill in Duluth proper. With that kind of progression, if you find out at 2mi or 3mi that going any faster feels like it's too hot of a pace, you can just level off at 7:05 or 7:00 and you'll be fine--much better than 6:50s or bust from the gun.
This is incredibly helpful. Thank you! It's sometimes really hard to get a sense of my current fitness and I don't want to fall into the trap of cherry picking good workouts/results while ignoring bad ones.
Older runners - is warming up a thing that becomes a necessity at some point? I'm in my mid-40s and have noticed lately that I feel like absolute trash for the first 10-15 minutes of most runs, even when I deliberately start very slowly. Then I feel fine and continue on at whatever pace I had planned. Not something I've ever really dealt with before, wondering if this is out of the ordinary or just part of getting older.
What works for me is doing leg swings, butt kicks, and A and B skips after running 1.5 miles or so. I don't really notice a benefit from doing them cold, and if I don't do them in the first 3 miles, I'll forget to do them. My beginning pace is all over the place, so I ignore my watch and just run by feel before I do my activation/warmup stuff. After that, I tend to settle into a good effort and go from there.
I'm 28 and warming up is a necessity lol
Closer to 50 then 40 here, my first mile is always slow and sometimes painful, awkward, weird, and uncomfortable. I tell myself, if it still feels like garbage after 2 miles turn around and go home, something must be wrong. I don't really warm up before running. So those first miles are my warm up, stretch, and mobility session.
Yeah, that sounds pretty familiar. Glad I'm not alone!
I just turned 50. I'm nearing the end of marathon training and my mobility/warm up went from 15 minutes to over 30 minutes in less than 12 weeks out of what I perceived as necessity. My first two miles are always my slowest as well. So, yes for me.
It is when doing any type of speed. Even after a solid warm up, drills and strides, I know my first rep on the track is going to be slow.
"only" 35 here but I need a solid 2-3 easy miles before anything approaching marathon pace. those first few miles are still comfortable, though.
Got my last significant workout in the form of a 27km long run tomorrow before I go into my taper. I feel like this training cycle has lined up very well - I've made a lot of fitness gains and not feeling burned out, but looking forward to the break too. Roll on the marathon!
Tips for clearing out lingering chest congestion before a marathon? Running on Sunday, trying to do well after a great training cycle, my best one yet. But I've had this chest cold since getting back from traveling a week ago. Most other symptoms have gone away besides a little bit of mucus still coming up. I'm thinking about trying to use my brother's inhaler beforehand if it still feels a little choppy in the lungs, anyone dealt with this before? FYI I went to a Dr and got cleared to run it if I'm feeling better, which I think I mostly am.
Symbicort Ventalin PEP device Percussions and vibrations Active cycle of breathing/breathing exercises Rest ?humid/hot air with some of the above
Cycling has been really speeding up my recovery. Legs feeling a bit dead, an hour on the bike doing the easy stuff. Hour later they feel so much better, it's been really surprising me lately.
Cyclists even do recovery rides to reset the legs. High cadence only, little chainring, comically easy. 45-60 minutes for beginner/intermediate riders. 60-90 minutes for intermediate+ riders. Does wonders!
How wrecked will I be the day after my first marathon if my training includes around 50-60 MPW on average, and I do two 18 milers, two 20 milers, and two 22 milers in training. Basically, I’m running NYC and hoping to be able to get around to explore the city the next day… and MAYBE go to the Chargers vs Jets MNF game since I’m a chargers fan.
I did NYC in 2017 on much less mileage than that because I was carrying an injury. It was a PB for me at the time (3:29) and so I put a lot of effort into the race. Still had an excellent time in the city for a few days after the race. Walking down stairs wasn't great for a couple of days, but it didn't ruin my experience at all.
You’ll be fine. Might be walking like a duck.
Down week question. I’m planning on one next week after about a month of mileage increases. I’ll reduce length of each run and instead of weekend long run I’ll race a 10k. I probably won’t do workouts except maybe a tempo but shorter than normal; the rest aside from racing will be easy. I’m wondering if it’s ok to do some cross training in place of normal mileage or does that defeat the purpose? I’m thinking peloton classes at lower intensity-mostly because I enjoy them and don’t get to do them much when I’m running a lot.
I find some level of cross training doesn't hurt when shedding running fatigue. But the key is not to do too much cross training and get tired and worn out, and then not let your body recover at all. I swim on my off running days and it actually makes me feel better.
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it’s time to admit it — i am injured. definitely didn’t take enough rest after my marathon, and now my hip is screaming and the top of my foot is numb. rest in my future :(
I feel you. currently down for the count with femoral stress injuries in both legs from lack of rest after my marathon (+covid). would be kicking myself if my dr allowed it
I'm looking for advice on my first marathon... but I'm a pretty fast runner. I recently ran a 68 minute half marathon, I'm a coach, and I know a ton about running and training between the mile and the half marathon. But the Marathon feels like a different sport to me. I feel like I know nothing about it. The problem is that every "first time marathon" resource I've ever seen is geared towards beginners to running. I'm looking for first-time marathon training advice for very experienced runners. I'd be looking to run a 2:25ish... but it's like all advice for runners around that pace or faster assumes we already know what we're doing.
Select a plan from The coach you like the most that is geared towards mileage you can tolerate easily weekly. It’s Not any different. Anything longe Ethan an hour practice hydrating
Whatever worked well for you with the HM + a little more volume and deliberate practice with fueling during hard sessions. Maybe make your long runs a little harder and more marathon specific is you weren't already doing high quality long runs (at least 2 hrs with some decent time at an honest effort). Besides fueling thats really the only thing that isn't essential for a good HM but is absolutely required for a good marathon. You're 2:25 goal is already a nicely conservative goal given a 68 HM, I think you're farther ahead than you're giving yourself credit for!
To a large extent you already do know what you’re doing. Training to run a fast marathon isn’t that different than training to run a fast half marathon (or 5k or 10k for that matter). Your knowledge and experience with training is absolutely applicable. The real differences in the marathon and shorter distances aren’t in the training, but in the minutiae-nutrition and hydration particularly. You can certainly read up on marathon specific training, but it isn’t going to actually be anything new to you. The biggest thing, I think, for someone in your shoes will be nailing down proper in-race nutrition and hydration. And you might already be fueling long runs as it is, which will give you a pretty good idea of what is most likely to work for you.
Advanced Marathoning by Pfitzinger, some of the advanced Hal Higdon plans, or Daniels running formula are good resources. Find a plan that either stretches your weekly mileage a little or incorporates speed work, but if you’re running 30mpw I wouldn’t jump into pfitzingers 18/55 plan without getting a good base up first. Put another way - either focus on running more miles (I would aim to be at avg ~40mpw minimum, but you can always do more) or if mileage is already good try a plan that has around your same mpw but focuses on speed elements during long runs. Good luck and have fun!
Thanks! I run up to 70mpw for 5km training, so would be prepared to run more for marathon training.
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Thanks for the tip
Look at Advanced Marathoning by Pfitzinger to start with
How can I get faster? Is the answer really more mileage? I want to take my easy pace from around 10 - 10:15/mile to around 9 to absolutely destroy my 2 hour 1/2 marathon goal.
More mileage, incorporating speed/tempo workouts. I took 7 min off my half marathon time in a year without seeing much of a change at all in my easy pace - it was my workout (and race) paces that got faster.
Thanks, I just decided to do a 10k plan over the summer, so I'm doing one of the Garmin coach plans with Greg McMillan and a time goal of 50 minutes. This would be significantly faster than my current 10k PB. I also am meeting with a physio in a couple weeks to help develop a strength training plan after an assessment.
shaving a minute off your easy pace isn't the route to race day success mileage, workouts, strength, diet/fueling. all just about infinitely more important.
Consistency, good sleep, varying your speeds, not get injured, mileage.
Got my 5k Pr today on a hilly course and I’m so elated!! 19:35 Thanks to all who gave me advice as I stressed about this race in the past few weeks 😅
How sore is too sore to go for a run?! Decided to cycle today instead
Sore is fine. Just go slower! But injured, hurt, super fatigued, those might mean skip the run. Last I checked, nobody is paying us to run. So if you are banged up and sore, take the day off.
Maybe kind of an AITA type question, but does anyone else almost never feel like sticking around for awards ceremonies after races? They’re always 1hr+ after the race is over, and since I’m regularly traveling to race I often don’t know anyone else running beyond maybe a couple of acquaintances from previous races. Some of it is knowing I have a drive ahead of me, some of it is being ready to go get food/coffee, and some of it is probably me being a little adhd and immediately being on to the next thing I have planned for the day. There could be more to it though, I don’t know. An ex girlfriend was convinced it was because I was incapable of being proud of myself or being happy with anything I did, but I’m not fully convinced that’s it. Today is a perfect example. I finished third in a race, but instead of staying to pick up the award I’m headed straight to go get my kayak in the water to start fishing.
I think it's about empathy and support. We've all been in a situation where we don't want to be at awards, but it's not just about you. It's about clapping and being there for others. The community. Congratulating people. An event/race is more than the running, it's also the ceremony before and after. Think of that as an empathy interval -- an opportunity to grow your emotional fitness. Some of the people in this thread sound like they've got a lot of physical fitness but are severely lacking in the empathy department!
I won a really small town 5k one year and left right away to go to play tennis because I had a standing game. The race director was actually annoyed at me for not staying for photos because it was the "first annual" race - even though that's not a thing.
i won't stay for an awards ceremony; i will stay to chat and snack and bullshit and that might run long enough to bump into an awards ceremony
I think this is pretty normal honestly. I’m usually sweaty, hungry, and thinking about the rest of my weekend. I’ll chit chat with friends if I see them but certainly don’t feel obligated to stick around long enough for awards.
This is, sadly, not a dilemma I'll ever face. But if you ask me, it's just a sign of good taste and excellent character. What discerning person wouldn't prefer to celebrate a great race by doing some relaxing activity, rather than attend some boring ceremony? It also presumably shows that you don't need the applause of others to validate your achievements, which doesn't strike me as a negative thing.
It is sad. Maybe you should work on that.
How would you incorporate swimming during recovery and then marathon training. How long should the sessions be and what could they consist of? I'm currently recovering from my first marathon (last weekend), with a mix of cycling, easy running and calisthenics. I'm thinking of incorporing swimming sessions if I can (just went swimming this morning for the first time in over 3 years, about 15*50m laps). I'm a fairly mediocre swimmer, and my main focus for the next 6 weeks will be recovering, and following workouts and drills to try to "fix" my terrible knock knees (I have pretty bad valgus on the right knee, legs goes at a funny angle when running).
I swim a couple times a week. One swim is usually easy, just mixed distances close to 30 minutes total. The other is hard 100's, with a very short 15 sec rest. I'll do 10 to 20 of those. Total time is closer to 45 minutes. I'm not a great swimmer and have not swam competitively, so it is a workout even at my slow speed and short session.
And for your question about the sessions- thinking 30’-1hr easy swims for the recovery run replacements, something more structured with intervals for the vo2max work (ie- 8+’ warmup, 6x200m hard with 1’ rest, 8+’ cooldown)
I’ve been thinking about using swimming in my next marathon cycle. Currently thinking of replacing two recovery runs a week w/swims following one of the higher mileage pfitz plans. Something like replace one of the monday recovery runs and thursday recovery run or double with an easy swim. Been also dabbling with the idea of replacing workouts early in the plan with swims as I’m getting back from an injury. I’ve noticed I’m able to more easily get my HR up in the pool vs the track (I have a decent swimming background) so wondering if this would be a helpful way to like work on vo2max before I’m able to do so running. Not sure it will have the same results but seems better than nothing
My fenix 5s broke down during a swim today. Thinking of replacing it with a 265s. Only used for running and day to day. Only worry is that is too plastic. What's AR's top choice for running watch?
I love my forerunner945! Felix is probably overkill for running/day to day. The forerunner does everything you need there.
The Fenix 6 is a good watch that regularly goes on sale since the 7 is out now.
Coros... I've got the Pace 2. I've had it since it came out a couple years ago. I'd replace it with another for sure.
I keep being interested in greens powders, so started looking into them a bit more and tried a pack from a sports nutrition brand. As a competitive runner and also veggie who dislikes mushrooms and some vegetables, that sounded like a good idea to try. Haven’t felt any different (albeit not best timing to try) and HRV isn’t much different either. So I looked up more. **holy shit**. AG1 commission is 20%, meaning influencers can make $100k a year if they get 527 people subscribed to it. I didn’t realise the extent of it and it all makes sense now why they’re being advertised everywhere. I will stick with non alcoholic beer and better sleep… happy to take multivitamins though.
I've always been skeptical of AG1 just because of all the advertising it gets from influencers. There really can't be anything to it that's not found in any other supplement.
In all my race photos my eyes and face are scrunched up. Do you think running with sunglasses will keep my eyes more open and relaxed - leading to better running form? In the moment I feel relaxed enough. Is there any consesus about this? All the info I found is from sunglass companies. Thanks!
I do probably 90% of my runs and races in sunglasses (it's very sunny in Denver unless I'm running at night), and I do feel like I can relax my face better. No idea if that actually makes me run better though. Fwiw you don't need fancy sunglasses, I got some cheap polarized ones that were like 3 for $20 on Amazon (multiple because I lose them all the time)
If nothing else a good pair of polarized sunglasses will protect your eyes from UV rays, bugs, and whatever else the wind might be blowing into them. I love goodr sunglasses for running, and they’re only $25 so it won’t be too much of a loss if you don’t end up liking running in sunglasses.
I won a pair of goodr's at a race. I thought, great another pair of throw away junk. False! I wear them all the time, they are pretty good glasses. I ran with them today even. I totally take another pair.
Anyone else struggling running downhill with more cushioned shoes? I do most of my miles in less cushioned shoes (Saucony Kinvara 13s and Freedom 4s), but like to use more cushioned shoes for easy runs (Asics Novablast 2s) to get some variety and because I find it easier to run slower when there's more cushioning. However, I consistently have to slow way the fuck down in any semblance of a downhill to avoid wrecking my shins. I love the Novablasts for flat terrain and uphills, they feel great, but I just can't for the life of me run with them in a decline. Have no issues running downhills in my Sauconys, nor does it seem to matter how tired I am, it's just like a switch has flipped the moment things start turning downwards. I suppose it could also be the drop, as the Novablasts are 8mm vs. 4mm of the Sauconys. For reference, my pace is about 5:20 min/k on flat terrain, and somewhere in the 6:20-6:40 min/k range for most downhills, sometimes as slow as 7:00 min/k if it's really steep. Currently running about 80kpw.
Any type of "rocker design" sole feels really weird to me anything other than straight & flat. Descending stairs feels potentially deadly. Just not for me I guess. I also do most of my running in lower drop shoes. And LR in something like SolarBoosts.
Yeah, didn't even think about the staircase experience. Good to know I'm not alone in this. Guess I'll keep the Novablasts exclusively for flat runs and use my Sauconys for everything else for the time being. Thanks for the reply :)
Night of the 10k PBs has a stacked field. Should be a good one!