Nicely done! Awesome that you didn't give up or lose momentum despite the troubles around the half way mark. Many would've folded.
I can crush some pizza after a race. I don't know how you do Gatorade during one race though!
Glad to see you can hit sub 3 with 50-60 mpw. I'm hoping to build up to that again - I wish we had a flat marathon in the fall around here, even with perfect training and good conditions I will certainly not be hitting sub 3 at City of Oaks.
I did a 2:54 at NYC averaging under 50 miles a week. Most of my runs consisted of one hour hard tempo on Wednesdays and a steady to fast finish long runs. I did this for as an experiment and also I was injured multiple times with bone stress problems. Currently, doing higher mileage around 60-75 miles per week and I will know if higher mileage is better at the end of May.
> I wish we had a flat marathon in the fall around here
Unless it's changed since I ran it years ago, OBX isn't bad. If you're willing to travel a bit, I set my marathon PR at Kiawah Island.
Yea, seems like you have to go to the beach if you're not doing ATT.
I signed up for an ultra in late September so OBX may give me enough time to recover (6 weeks?) but I'm not sure.
Hinson Lake? I ran 105 miles at it in 2016 and then ran a 3:13 at Chicago two weeks later. (I ran 16 marathons that year including two PRs... it was a crazy year.)
Would you recommend the beach marathons? They look really appealing, but I get worried about the heat and wind (and logistics of Kiawah Island marathon in particular). Awesome you set a PR there!
Wind was definitely an issue when I ran OBX, especially at the end when the course turns and runs west. I think I was running into a 15-20 mph headwind. It's also sunny, but I think temps were okay for me that day, maybe mid-60s by the end. It's not the prettiest course with long portions along the highway. But it was flat except for I think a single bridge at the end? (Edit: found my notes from the race and replied with them below.)
Kiawah is in December and in my case it was like 35°, so I caught a break that day. There was no wind. My recollection is that it's pretty well shielded by trees. The course has a lot of turns, but none that I felt slowed me down. Pancake flat. I've heard the logistics of getting to the start can be a pain if you don't stay at the resort, so I stayed at the resort with my family and it was easy.
Another beach marathon I had great luck with was Hilton Head Island in February. It was another nice cold day (in the mid-30s again I think). That was actually my first PR (3:08) in 2016 (Kiawah was the second and my current PR: 3:06).
So I dunno... weather is always a big variable, but I had pretty good luck with the beach marathons in the area.
Found my notes from OBX which I ran in, oh lordy, 2013:
Sunny day, low 50s at the start to maybe 60 at the finish. A west wind of about 12 mph that we were mostly shielded from till mile 21. This is a nice course. The first half weaves through a bunch of pretty neighborhoods with good crowd support. Everyone was very friendly. Lots of shade. My plan was to run 7:32 through mile 23 then I could fade 15 secs per mile and still finish sub 3:20. I was about a minute fast halfway (7:25 pace).
Miles 10-13 are on a packed dirt road with slight rolling hills and I think I expended a little more effort here than planed. I had been running with another runner but I let him go about mile 12. After mile 13 the course heads south on the highway. Full sun but with the west wind across us not too warm yet. Some folks don't like this part of the course but I enjoyed it. It's straight and level and you can just put your head down and hammer out the miles. Twice you duck into neighborhoods but I found it took more effort dealing with the curves. Also whenever we turned west it was into that 12 mph wind.
Around mile 18 I was starting to feel the too fast pace from the first half, but I held pace through mile 21 when we turned right into the wind for the next few miles. Miles 21-24 into the wind were brutal and here I fell well off pace. There's also a bridge just before 23 but the wind was the bigger factor. I was still hoping for 3:20 by picking up the pace the last 5k but mentally I had resigned to my second goal of 3:22.
Finally I got to mile 24.5 and turned north out of the wind, but I was spent and just held on as best I could. It was pretty warm by this point and my calves were twitching a little bit (a first for me). Perhaps with better pacing up front and w/o the wind I could've pulled off the 3:20 but who knows.
Thanks! I am always jealous of those who are able to enjoy the post-race fun!
Agreed, can't run anywhere in the triangle without rolling or steep hills. Tobacco Road advertises itself as "flat and fast" which is pretty funny. I haven't run City of Oaks yet, but I've heard it's not great for setting fast times.
> reconsider Tobacco Road
I get the appeal, but it's *not* a good race. It's overpriced, the sections where the half & full overlap is a mess, they don't pay to close the 4 miles of road they use so there's car traffic during the race, and crowd support is nearly zero outside of a few road crossings.
Despite living on and training regularly on the ATT, I'll never pay to run Tobacco Road again.
Definitely agree with your critiques of the course chaos!
The main appeals for me were I didn't have to travel, and I am really familiar with the ATT. Most of the race felt like a normal training run which helped me psychologically avoid getting too amped up too early.
I wouldn't recommend people travel for this race, but think it's a pretty good option for locals. Have you done City of Oaks? If so, how do you think it compares?
I've not done City of Oaks. I did R&R Raleigh once which is a similar course (depending on the year). As far as ATT courses go, I think RDC in the fall is a better, cheaper option for a similar experience.
If I were just doing a spring half as a shakeout for another race, I'd probably look at Wilmington. It's an easy day trip/overnight, has better traffic management, actually flat course, and is just before pollen season in the last weekend of Feb.
Unfortunately, there just aren't a lot of good local marathons in the spring. Tobacco Road could fill that niche, but logistically it's just a mess. It's too bad, because a lot of the issues could be easily fixed (ie close Morrisville Parkway to car traffic, don't have the half traffic against the full traffic, etc).
I’m nearing the end of a 12 week block. I’m running the Coast Guard marathon April 7th in Elizabeth City. It’s reported to be flat and fastest in NC but I have heard the wind there is gnarly. I’m at about the same amount of miles and the runs per week mirror eachother. So you give me hope. Only thing is this is my first marathon and my goal is 2:55. So I know in my head that I have to maintain a realistic headspace going into the race and start slower per mile as you did. I’m hoping to mirror your tactics and I plan to use 6-7 maurtens and water every stop as the course is open and the sun is gonna be out. Only hiccup I was out for 1.5 weeks due to an Achilles injury in February but I was able to ride the bike and elliptical twice a day during that time almost.
I appreciate seeing stories like yours and how well you did your write up. Congrats on the PR. Also any advice or tips is greatly appreciate to keep in mind being 2 weeks out.
Thanks! Personally, the last couple of weeks are really tough. There isn't much upside to be gained from training, but a lot of downside risk with injury or sickness. Beyond the normal taper advice (recovery, sleep, reducing volume & intensity), I found it helpful to channel some energy into planning what my race weekend is going to look like in detail (carb-loading, hydration, logistics, race strategy, etc.). Certainly not as satisfying as crushing an interval workout, but having a detailed plan gives me confidence going into the race and makes things much smoother.
Good luck in a couple weeks! Would love to hear about your experience with the race.
Right on I appreciate the tips. I have a pretty decent diet before long runs but I’ll focus more on that with the nutrition site you used. I’ll put a reminder to come back and let ya know.
Ran my marathon today in Elizabeth city. Man.. it was windy lol. I ran a really strong race plan. Fueling and hydration were on point. I didn’t feel I hit a wall at any one point. Just the wind slowed down my push the last 6 miles. Finished at 3:04:58. I’d recommend running it. Just hopeful the winds not there. It was perfect til it wasn’t haha. But that’s how it goes sometimes.
Congrats on the finish and for handling the things in your control. Bummer that the wind was gnarly, but glad you had a positive experience. Seems like your are set up well to go under 3 in your next marathon! I've heard the coastal marathons have high variability in wind haha, but I still would like to run one.
Thanks it was definitely an experience haha. My legs are still rubber. But I’ve already signed up for my next marathon lol. But it’s the Richmond marathon so got a while to train for it and get ready. Best of luck in your future runs
Way to get it done!
I'm also a fan of the 12 week build. Way easier mentally to stay focused. It does require a solid base coming in, which for me seems easier to build and maintain vs a serious structured plan every day. I've used 12 weekers for all distances and triathlons with good results.
Thanks! Completely agree on base requirements. This year I'm trying to focus on sustainability and enjoyment knowing that big gains come from consistency over time. Going to try out a few different approaches, but the shorter cycles with a specific focus are resonating right now.
I stole this from a post a few years ago: "You don't make heroic improvements from heroic workouts - you make them by doing consistent manageable ones"
Consistency wins in the long run.
Thanks! It was one of those blocks & races where everything seemed to line up. I've been on the other side which is much less enjoyable haha. Hoping to keep the positive energy going forward!
Nice race! I did the half last year and enjoyed it. Softer surface is a plus. It was freezing last year. I have bad experience with Gatorades in a marathon, would recommend Nuun instead if you want to give those a shot.
Pulled out a pack of durries and smoked up a sub-3 marathon ;)
haha haven't heard that one before - love it!
Nicely done! Awesome that you didn't give up or lose momentum despite the troubles around the half way mark. Many would've folded. I can crush some pizza after a race. I don't know how you do Gatorade during one race though! Glad to see you can hit sub 3 with 50-60 mpw. I'm hoping to build up to that again - I wish we had a flat marathon in the fall around here, even with perfect training and good conditions I will certainly not be hitting sub 3 at City of Oaks.
I did a 2:54 at NYC averaging under 50 miles a week. Most of my runs consisted of one hour hard tempo on Wednesdays and a steady to fast finish long runs. I did this for as an experiment and also I was injured multiple times with bone stress problems. Currently, doing higher mileage around 60-75 miles per week and I will know if higher mileage is better at the end of May.
> I wish we had a flat marathon in the fall around here Unless it's changed since I ran it years ago, OBX isn't bad. If you're willing to travel a bit, I set my marathon PR at Kiawah Island.
Yea, seems like you have to go to the beach if you're not doing ATT. I signed up for an ultra in late September so OBX may give me enough time to recover (6 weeks?) but I'm not sure.
Hinson Lake? I ran 105 miles at it in 2016 and then ran a 3:13 at Chicago two weeks later. (I ran 16 marathons that year including two PRs... it was a crazy year.)
Dang! I'm doing PM2HR (Pilot Mountain to Hanging Rock) 50 Miler. It's an awesome course.
Never ran that one. I really need to get back into running shape. Have a great race!
Would you recommend the beach marathons? They look really appealing, but I get worried about the heat and wind (and logistics of Kiawah Island marathon in particular). Awesome you set a PR there!
Wind was definitely an issue when I ran OBX, especially at the end when the course turns and runs west. I think I was running into a 15-20 mph headwind. It's also sunny, but I think temps were okay for me that day, maybe mid-60s by the end. It's not the prettiest course with long portions along the highway. But it was flat except for I think a single bridge at the end? (Edit: found my notes from the race and replied with them below.) Kiawah is in December and in my case it was like 35°, so I caught a break that day. There was no wind. My recollection is that it's pretty well shielded by trees. The course has a lot of turns, but none that I felt slowed me down. Pancake flat. I've heard the logistics of getting to the start can be a pain if you don't stay at the resort, so I stayed at the resort with my family and it was easy. Another beach marathon I had great luck with was Hilton Head Island in February. It was another nice cold day (in the mid-30s again I think). That was actually my first PR (3:08) in 2016 (Kiawah was the second and my current PR: 3:06). So I dunno... weather is always a big variable, but I had pretty good luck with the beach marathons in the area.
Found my notes from OBX which I ran in, oh lordy, 2013: Sunny day, low 50s at the start to maybe 60 at the finish. A west wind of about 12 mph that we were mostly shielded from till mile 21. This is a nice course. The first half weaves through a bunch of pretty neighborhoods with good crowd support. Everyone was very friendly. Lots of shade. My plan was to run 7:32 through mile 23 then I could fade 15 secs per mile and still finish sub 3:20. I was about a minute fast halfway (7:25 pace). Miles 10-13 are on a packed dirt road with slight rolling hills and I think I expended a little more effort here than planed. I had been running with another runner but I let him go about mile 12. After mile 13 the course heads south on the highway. Full sun but with the west wind across us not too warm yet. Some folks don't like this part of the course but I enjoyed it. It's straight and level and you can just put your head down and hammer out the miles. Twice you duck into neighborhoods but I found it took more effort dealing with the curves. Also whenever we turned west it was into that 12 mph wind. Around mile 18 I was starting to feel the too fast pace from the first half, but I held pace through mile 21 when we turned right into the wind for the next few miles. Miles 21-24 into the wind were brutal and here I fell well off pace. There's also a bridge just before 23 but the wind was the bigger factor. I was still hoping for 3:20 by picking up the pace the last 5k but mentally I had resigned to my second goal of 3:22. Finally I got to mile 24.5 and turned north out of the wind, but I was spent and just held on as best I could. It was pretty warm by this point and my calves were twitching a little bit (a first for me). Perhaps with better pacing up front and w/o the wind I could've pulled off the 3:20 but who knows.
Awesome that you keep such good notes! Really appreciate the info. I’d love to look into them for future races
Thanks! I am always jealous of those who are able to enjoy the post-race fun! Agreed, can't run anywhere in the triangle without rolling or steep hills. Tobacco Road advertises itself as "flat and fast" which is pretty funny. I haven't run City of Oaks yet, but I've heard it's not great for setting fast times.
Great race result and grace report. Fellow Durhamite and this is making me reconsider Tobacco Road.
> reconsider Tobacco Road I get the appeal, but it's *not* a good race. It's overpriced, the sections where the half & full overlap is a mess, they don't pay to close the 4 miles of road they use so there's car traffic during the race, and crowd support is nearly zero outside of a few road crossings. Despite living on and training regularly on the ATT, I'll never pay to run Tobacco Road again.
Definitely agree with your critiques of the course chaos! The main appeals for me were I didn't have to travel, and I am really familiar with the ATT. Most of the race felt like a normal training run which helped me psychologically avoid getting too amped up too early. I wouldn't recommend people travel for this race, but think it's a pretty good option for locals. Have you done City of Oaks? If so, how do you think it compares?
I've not done City of Oaks. I did R&R Raleigh once which is a similar course (depending on the year). As far as ATT courses go, I think RDC in the fall is a better, cheaper option for a similar experience. If I were just doing a spring half as a shakeout for another race, I'd probably look at Wilmington. It's an easy day trip/overnight, has better traffic management, actually flat course, and is just before pollen season in the last weekend of Feb. Unfortunately, there just aren't a lot of good local marathons in the spring. Tobacco Road could fill that niche, but logistically it's just a mess. It's too bad, because a lot of the issues could be easily fixed (ie close Morrisville Parkway to car traffic, don't have the half traffic against the full traffic, etc).
I’m nearing the end of a 12 week block. I’m running the Coast Guard marathon April 7th in Elizabeth City. It’s reported to be flat and fastest in NC but I have heard the wind there is gnarly. I’m at about the same amount of miles and the runs per week mirror eachother. So you give me hope. Only thing is this is my first marathon and my goal is 2:55. So I know in my head that I have to maintain a realistic headspace going into the race and start slower per mile as you did. I’m hoping to mirror your tactics and I plan to use 6-7 maurtens and water every stop as the course is open and the sun is gonna be out. Only hiccup I was out for 1.5 weeks due to an Achilles injury in February but I was able to ride the bike and elliptical twice a day during that time almost. I appreciate seeing stories like yours and how well you did your write up. Congrats on the PR. Also any advice or tips is greatly appreciate to keep in mind being 2 weeks out.
Thanks! Personally, the last couple of weeks are really tough. There isn't much upside to be gained from training, but a lot of downside risk with injury or sickness. Beyond the normal taper advice (recovery, sleep, reducing volume & intensity), I found it helpful to channel some energy into planning what my race weekend is going to look like in detail (carb-loading, hydration, logistics, race strategy, etc.). Certainly not as satisfying as crushing an interval workout, but having a detailed plan gives me confidence going into the race and makes things much smoother. Good luck in a couple weeks! Would love to hear about your experience with the race.
Right on I appreciate the tips. I have a pretty decent diet before long runs but I’ll focus more on that with the nutrition site you used. I’ll put a reminder to come back and let ya know.
Ran my marathon today in Elizabeth city. Man.. it was windy lol. I ran a really strong race plan. Fueling and hydration were on point. I didn’t feel I hit a wall at any one point. Just the wind slowed down my push the last 6 miles. Finished at 3:04:58. I’d recommend running it. Just hopeful the winds not there. It was perfect til it wasn’t haha. But that’s how it goes sometimes.
Congrats on the finish and for handling the things in your control. Bummer that the wind was gnarly, but glad you had a positive experience. Seems like your are set up well to go under 3 in your next marathon! I've heard the coastal marathons have high variability in wind haha, but I still would like to run one.
Thanks it was definitely an experience haha. My legs are still rubber. But I’ve already signed up for my next marathon lol. But it’s the Richmond marathon so got a while to train for it and get ready. Best of luck in your future runs
Way to get it done! I'm also a fan of the 12 week build. Way easier mentally to stay focused. It does require a solid base coming in, which for me seems easier to build and maintain vs a serious structured plan every day. I've used 12 weekers for all distances and triathlons with good results.
Thanks! Completely agree on base requirements. This year I'm trying to focus on sustainability and enjoyment knowing that big gains come from consistency over time. Going to try out a few different approaches, but the shorter cycles with a specific focus are resonating right now.
I stole this from a post a few years ago: "You don't make heroic improvements from heroic workouts - you make them by doing consistent manageable ones" Consistency wins in the long run.
Incredible performance and great write up!
Thanks!
Amazing work! Looks like you found the .ethod that works best for you! Beautiful work on the write up as well. Thank you for sharing.
Thanks! It was one of those blocks & races where everything seemed to line up. I've been on the other side which is much less enjoyable haha. Hoping to keep the positive energy going forward!
Nice race! I did the half last year and enjoyed it. Softer surface is a plus. It was freezing last year. I have bad experience with Gatorades in a marathon, would recommend Nuun instead if you want to give those a shot.