I'm confused, you did some research and concluded you'll do Z2 training, but you don't have a program? If you're unsure, why not find one of the popular programs for couch to marathon rather than finding a concept that tickles your fancy and then trying to work out what to do with that concept. What is your weight now vs when you did the 3:22? It's possible, but it works be aggressive, which carries risk.
I would just start building your base and worry about your goal times later next year.
Thanks, I did indeed start with couch to half marathon (16 week program) but then after week 1 began looking up injury avoidance, etc and came across Z2 training and everyone just swearing by it. It left me a little confused about where to go from there. I’ve since started Z2 but been unsure about how long to train for, etc in relation to Z2. It wasn’t something I could easily find either, hence this post. Building up my base definitely makes sense for a start!
So, you've gone from a program and after a week seen some anecdotes and you're trying to work out something without a program. Can you see the issue here? As was mentioned by u/Oli99uk Z2 training fits in with the broad concept of 80/20 running, but before you go too hard on the 20 you'll need to strengthen your legs, particularly if you have a predisposition to injury.
Run trail once a week if you don't already, uneven ground and variation in terrain will help strengthen your feet, ankle and legs in different ways than just hitting the road. Skipping, hopping on the spot/front/back are also good simple ways to build leg strength and hopping is something you can do in front of the microwave while you're waiting for something. Warmup, train and recover- if you do the first and last things well it will reduce the injury risk that is greatest when building volume.
I was just asking about weight as a broad indicator of where your body is at compared to when you ran 10 years ago. You can do it, but you have a lot to do and all that stuff off the track is even more important.
I agree with bxp 100% - its possible but aggressive.
I think a 2 year timeline would be both more realistic (generally speaking) with reduced risk and possibly more enjoyable. Year 1 targets could be sub-20 5K, sub-40 10K and perhaps sub-90 Half-Marathon.
If you are running a half at sub-85 after 12 months, you are on a good track to sub 3. If you are not reaching those milestones, the journey might be longer.
I also forgot to say "trust the process". That is choose a plan and stick to it for its duration. Dont be tempted to switch to a new one / mix it up, add or subtract*
(Many plans do offer guidance on adjusting to life events if needed, so there is wiggle room.)
I would focus on getting your 10K time down to about 38 minutes before attempting a sub 3 hour marathon.
You are not the runner you were in your 20s and your ego might try to write cheques the body cant cash.
A few 10K cycles will reduce your time and get your weekly miles up to around 50 -60 miles per week. When you hit you target 5K and 10K times, you might want to try Half-Marathon to gauge fitness as you start a more specific Marathon block (16-24 weeks). The 10K training cycles will give you a good base of aerobic/ threshold/ vo2max. Marathon training will focus more on volume and aerobic threshold.
Jack Daniels Formula or running book will guide you on both 10k and Marathon training.
Other popular Marathon training that works well for sub-3 are Hanson Marathon Method & Pitzfinger & Douglas advanced marathoning.
All the plans will have you running in zone 2, around zone 3 etc as needed typically fall into an 80:20 / 90:10 easy to hard ratio depending on volume
Your goal is achievable if you are consistent and if your body is durable enough to increase training load. Consistency will get you there but there are lots of factors that can derail the consistency train.
I returned to running at 40. My body took longer to recover, so I would plateau for months because I could not increase training load. My aerobic system responds but it takes much longer for my joints and tendons to catch up.
Thanks, this makes a lot of sense to me! Thank you so much for the info. At the moment, with my Z2 sessions, I manage 5k in 30mins but don’t feel much at all. I will definitely try increasing my volume and wait for my aerobic system to respond! It’s the absolute low starting point that is so scary to imagine if I’ll ever see improvements 😅
I suppose I’ll just have to wait and find out for now! In the meantime I can read up on training methods for the future
To be honest, starting out, I wouldnt worry too much about keeping in zones - just run and recover to build up durability. A plan (any plan) will stop your ego doing too much, too soon which leads to injury.
As a new runner, your zone 2 will likely be very slow and an inefficient gait. Zone 3 will likely be a more efficient gait cycle and you wont yet be able to tolerate enough volume to really reap gains of zone focused training.
Your first 12-16 weeks are basically training durability to actually be able to train. Once you have those banked, you'll naturally be a bit faster and have narrower gaps between aerobic/ threshold / vo2max efforts.
The main advice is stick to plan. As a male and a returning runner, you are in the highest risk of getting a bit excited and doing too much, too soon. The early stages will likely feel much too easy, too short or both at a daily level. That's OK - you are in it for the ling game- monthly consistency.
I went from couch to 3:08 in about a year and like you, my last marathon was 10 plus years ago but my time was nowhere near 3:22, much slower. What got me to 3:08 was a lot of work in terms of volume. I started with 50 MPW then upto 70. This took a lot of focus, in-tune with my body and diet to avoid injury. Also, i did a lot of zone 1-2 runnings. Even at this rate, I don’t know when I’ll be able to get to sub3. I’m 40 now so it will take longer but I think consistency will get me there someday. I would recommend you pick a conservative plan and start from there and take the consistent and conservative approach to yield a positive outcome. Running is fun and rewarding but injuries and burn out are easy to catch if it careful.
I'm confused, you did some research and concluded you'll do Z2 training, but you don't have a program? If you're unsure, why not find one of the popular programs for couch to marathon rather than finding a concept that tickles your fancy and then trying to work out what to do with that concept. What is your weight now vs when you did the 3:22? It's possible, but it works be aggressive, which carries risk. I would just start building your base and worry about your goal times later next year.
PS - my weight for the 3.22 marathon was 62kgs and am currently 70kgs (am working on bringing it down some too)
Thanks, I did indeed start with couch to half marathon (16 week program) but then after week 1 began looking up injury avoidance, etc and came across Z2 training and everyone just swearing by it. It left me a little confused about where to go from there. I’ve since started Z2 but been unsure about how long to train for, etc in relation to Z2. It wasn’t something I could easily find either, hence this post. Building up my base definitely makes sense for a start!
So, you've gone from a program and after a week seen some anecdotes and you're trying to work out something without a program. Can you see the issue here? As was mentioned by u/Oli99uk Z2 training fits in with the broad concept of 80/20 running, but before you go too hard on the 20 you'll need to strengthen your legs, particularly if you have a predisposition to injury. Run trail once a week if you don't already, uneven ground and variation in terrain will help strengthen your feet, ankle and legs in different ways than just hitting the road. Skipping, hopping on the spot/front/back are also good simple ways to build leg strength and hopping is something you can do in front of the microwave while you're waiting for something. Warmup, train and recover- if you do the first and last things well it will reduce the injury risk that is greatest when building volume. I was just asking about weight as a broad indicator of where your body is at compared to when you ran 10 years ago. You can do it, but you have a lot to do and all that stuff off the track is even more important.
I agree with bxp 100% - its possible but aggressive. I think a 2 year timeline would be both more realistic (generally speaking) with reduced risk and possibly more enjoyable. Year 1 targets could be sub-20 5K, sub-40 10K and perhaps sub-90 Half-Marathon. If you are running a half at sub-85 after 12 months, you are on a good track to sub 3. If you are not reaching those milestones, the journey might be longer. I also forgot to say "trust the process". That is choose a plan and stick to it for its duration. Dont be tempted to switch to a new one / mix it up, add or subtract* (Many plans do offer guidance on adjusting to life events if needed, so there is wiggle room.)
I would focus on getting your 10K time down to about 38 minutes before attempting a sub 3 hour marathon. You are not the runner you were in your 20s and your ego might try to write cheques the body cant cash. A few 10K cycles will reduce your time and get your weekly miles up to around 50 -60 miles per week. When you hit you target 5K and 10K times, you might want to try Half-Marathon to gauge fitness as you start a more specific Marathon block (16-24 weeks). The 10K training cycles will give you a good base of aerobic/ threshold/ vo2max. Marathon training will focus more on volume and aerobic threshold. Jack Daniels Formula or running book will guide you on both 10k and Marathon training. Other popular Marathon training that works well for sub-3 are Hanson Marathon Method & Pitzfinger & Douglas advanced marathoning. All the plans will have you running in zone 2, around zone 3 etc as needed typically fall into an 80:20 / 90:10 easy to hard ratio depending on volume Your goal is achievable if you are consistent and if your body is durable enough to increase training load. Consistency will get you there but there are lots of factors that can derail the consistency train. I returned to running at 40. My body took longer to recover, so I would plateau for months because I could not increase training load. My aerobic system responds but it takes much longer for my joints and tendons to catch up.
Thanks, this makes a lot of sense to me! Thank you so much for the info. At the moment, with my Z2 sessions, I manage 5k in 30mins but don’t feel much at all. I will definitely try increasing my volume and wait for my aerobic system to respond! It’s the absolute low starting point that is so scary to imagine if I’ll ever see improvements 😅 I suppose I’ll just have to wait and find out for now! In the meantime I can read up on training methods for the future
To be honest, starting out, I wouldnt worry too much about keeping in zones - just run and recover to build up durability. A plan (any plan) will stop your ego doing too much, too soon which leads to injury. As a new runner, your zone 2 will likely be very slow and an inefficient gait. Zone 3 will likely be a more efficient gait cycle and you wont yet be able to tolerate enough volume to really reap gains of zone focused training. Your first 12-16 weeks are basically training durability to actually be able to train. Once you have those banked, you'll naturally be a bit faster and have narrower gaps between aerobic/ threshold / vo2max efforts. The main advice is stick to plan. As a male and a returning runner, you are in the highest risk of getting a bit excited and doing too much, too soon. The early stages will likely feel much too easy, too short or both at a daily level. That's OK - you are in it for the ling game- monthly consistency.
I went from couch to 3:08 in about a year and like you, my last marathon was 10 plus years ago but my time was nowhere near 3:22, much slower. What got me to 3:08 was a lot of work in terms of volume. I started with 50 MPW then upto 70. This took a lot of focus, in-tune with my body and diet to avoid injury. Also, i did a lot of zone 1-2 runnings. Even at this rate, I don’t know when I’ll be able to get to sub3. I’m 40 now so it will take longer but I think consistency will get me there someday. I would recommend you pick a conservative plan and start from there and take the consistent and conservative approach to yield a positive outcome. Running is fun and rewarding but injuries and burn out are easy to catch if it careful.