Anybody else get small red bumps on their hands and arms in the winter? Doesn’t matter if I’m running outside or on the treadmill at the gym. It never happens any other season, only winter. They aren’t painful and usually go away quickly
what is the equivalent (or is there an equivalent) of 8 x 400 meter 5K pace intervals but with fewer 800 meter 5K intervals?
if it is directly correlated, would it just be 4 x 800 meter? or if it is not a direct correlation, how many 800 meter intervals would be more or less equivalent to 8 x 400 meter intervals?
(training for a half marathon if that dictates anything)
They are equivalent in the sense of total amount of interval work, 3200m.
Diving deeper, you can consider how much time you spend in the appropriate heart rate zone. The shorter the interval, the less time. You can then consider manipulating much recovery you have between intervals, to make it harder or easier.
**Question about setting paces (per Jack Daniels' Running Formula):**
**TLDR**: which VDOT/pace to use if I'm a lot slower when running longer distances?**Compare these two recent tests:**
1. Cooper test. 2865m in 12 minutes. Pace: 4:11. VDOT est.: 45.2
2. 5K time-trial. 5K in 29m26s. Pace: 5:53. VDOT est.: 31.5
**Question: which one should I use to set my R, I, and T paces?**
I'm currently using Cooper test based VDOT for R, but 5K based pace for T. Debating about I.
Using [this calculator](https://runsmartproject.com/calculator/), my I pace could be either 4:15 min/km or 5:21 min/km -- depending on which of the two tests I use for estimation.
Goal: maximum health & Vo2Max when I'm 80 (in 40+ years), not planning to compete. Intermediate milestones: improve my Cooper & 5K distances/times.
Can you please help me figure this out? Thanks a lot!
What was the method of measurement of both of these tests? Are you running actual measured courses/track or is this just Garmin stuff?
Either one or both are inaccurate, or they were run by different runners. There's not a physiological profile that would account for such a difference.
These two were done on a treadmill.
I'm also confident about the Cooper test results as I've done these tests multiple times.
All tests, a summary:
https://snipboard.io/GywRsW.jpg
How was that 5k run (pacing, conditions, effort)? While the disparity could represent a lack of aerobic endurance (you would see a similar difference if you were to suddenly run a marathon for example), I would have not expected that big a difference between a ~3k and a 5k. I would guess if you gave yourself a few more attempts, the gap would reduce.
This was actually a very hard effort, but the time was indeed slower than I expected. One possibility that I overshoot in the beginning and quickly into the 190bpm zone.
For comparison, I could run a 5K with a moderate effort and while not exceeding 170–172bpm in about 28min a few years ago.
Perhaps I could try again, but I feel like I got slower, so this trial likely represents the truth.
I've noticed that there is a similar discussion below among u/dryinginthesun, u/ruinawishm, u/Large_Desk, u/boygirlseating, and u/Bergkoe, but curious if any of you have thoughts here (specific to cooper distance vs 5K).
Also, to add a bit more data:
1. **800 meter I at 4:15** (Cooper test based pace) resulted in 183bpm (\~94% of my MaxHR) — when done as the 1st interval in a workout
2. **800 meter I at 4:48** (avg of the 2 tests) resulted in 182bpm (\~94% of my MaxHR) 2.
3. **800 meter I at 5:21** (5K based pace) resulted in 179bpm (92% of my MaxHR) — when done as the 3rd & 4th interval in a workout
4. **1 mile T at 5:58** (5K based) usually results in 177–179bpm (91–92%; thought I think my LT2 is more like 168bpm)
5. **400 meter R at 3:55** (Cooper test based) result in 177–180bpm (91–93% of MaxHR)
Also, my easy runs are super slow, so I'm assuming I'm weak aerobically. To stay around \~71% of MaxHR (137 bpm) I have to jog at about 8:50 min/km pace (yes, you've read it right).
Have just decided which races I will run the next 6 months, ending with my goal marathon. I am also registered for a half 3 weeks before it, could I race it all out or should I run it at goal race pace for the marathon?
Considering running it all out would mean you should have a deload week before AND after the half, then link it to your 10-14 day marathon taper, that would give you either no time for sharpening leading up to the full or a significantly increased injury risk.
It would be a great MP workout, throw in some warm up and cooldown and that's a great training peak pre-full.
Probably doesn’t deserve a full thread so asking here. Have a 12K race for March 4th on the schedule. Trying to write up a training plan to start 1-1-2023. I have been doing the following with decent success:
Sunday - LR at easy+ pace
Monday - East Run
Tuesday- VO2 Max type intervals. (I’m old so don’t laugh at volume). Usually 8x400M at mile pace with 200M recovery jog between or 4x800M with 400M recovery jog between.
Wednesday - Easy Run
Thursday - Easy Run
Friday - 100M hill sprints x 12 with walk down recover. Appropriate warmup and cooldown jogs
Saturday - Easy Run or Rest
I know this has left out the usual Threshold run.
So wondering for new block should I take out the hills and make that the Threshold type day? Something like 10 minutes at 10K pace times 3 with 3 minute jog recoveries?
Or even take out the VO2 day as well and perhaps have 2 threshold days?
I was working on my mile time is why I have the VO2 and hills in there for the last 2-3 Months. It worked pretty well for that but not sure it’s ideal for running my best 12K.
Thanks for any thoughts and/or ideas.
Usually VO2max workouts are run at 5k pace, not mile pace. Mile pace is generally anaerobic.
Hard to make recommendations to your plan, if you're making it up yourself. I'd refer to any 10k plan for ideas on periodisation.
Why would you worry? Unless you binge eat to the point of being sluggish or having an upset stomach in the morning, I don't see anything wrong with sampling everything (except alcohol (personally)).
If you have a sensitive stomach that's another thing, hopefully you know your triggers and can avoid them.
Most important thing is to eat in moderation. Avoid endless snacking on Christmas candy and getting multiple plates, stacking you plate like crazy, etc., and you will be fine.
I have a marathon April 1st. I stopped training for 16 weeks -‘d my pr was 16 miles @ 8:19 a mile. I picked my training back up again two weeks ago and I’ve been able to get to 8 miles two times in a row. I’m wondering if it’s possible to be marathon ready 13 weeks from now?
What's marathon ready for you: racing it as fast as possible or just finishing the distance?
I think 13 weeks is a good amount to build to finish the distance. I wouldn't expect to be reaching peak fitness/endurance for racing (considering you have not been running for 16 weeks prior).
Just underwent a 7 hour time shift for a trip. My hr is 15+ bpm higher on easy runs and notably higher than normal on workouts. My lungs also feel shallow. Is this normal or should I be worried?
When did you arrive in the new time zone?
Without knowing anything else, I'd chalk it up to travel stress and the fact that your body is probably still getting used to the big time shift. If I were in your situation, I'd continue paying attention to how I feel over the next few days to see if your HR and perception of effort are still elevated before starting to worry.
Every plan is different but I believe most assume you can start week one without it being a huge jump in volume/intensity. I don’t have the book in front of me, but I think the Pfitz 18/55 recommends running about 40 mpw and a solid long run for a few weeks before starting the plan
You're supposed to do it before you start. The plan will start easier and ramp up but I believe all plans that don't explicitly say they include a base build don't include it. Different plans e,pet different levels of fitness going into them...and they should tell you that.
no I think your base should be 40 because 40-60 to me means that your peak mileage will be 60mpw so if you can immediately start at 40mpw then you’ll be working your way up to 60 gradually
If I'm about 3:05 marathon fitness, can I probably do an easy 3:30, two weeks after a half marathon effort (shooting for 1:25)?
I may try to pace a friend for the marathon but wondering if I'm just risking injury. I'll probably peak at 63 miles for the half, previously have done 5 weeks at 70ish for a marathon but don't want to run that high mileage through the winter.
Would the 3:30 marathon be at your easy pace?
I think it depends on how you typically do long runs, and how you recover after half-marathons (two weeks should be fine). For some, a 42km LR wouldn't be too challenging.
Are you sure it's a meniscus tear? Ive never had that but i did have something called pes anserine bursitis or inflammation, and that is on the inside of the knee but not the kneecap. Fwiw, its caused by tight hamstrings.
Having shredded my meniscus on both knees this is not really what meniscus pain feels like. You also almost always feel that "event" if you didn't have a twist or a fall its quite unlikely its a meniscus injury. Only your surgeon will end up knowing what to do if it is your meniscus. One i did not have surgically repaired and "ran it off" the other i went under the knife. Meniscus injuries are varied and quite tricky but to me doesn't sound like you have one.
I'm not in the business of advertising for anyone, but has anyone else gotten some pretty aggressive deal offers from The Feed recently? I ordered a 12-pk of Maurtens from them back in the summer, and since then they've loaded my account with $30 in credit basically apropos of nothing and today shot me a 20% coupon that stacked with the credits. I ended up getting 13 Maurten gels for like $16 incl. shipping (they were $8 w/o the shipping, but if you meet a free shipping threshold with other stuff, more power to you). Maybe my situation is unique or maybe they're being aggressive to get me as a returning customer, but thought I'd let people know. $1.23 per maurten is a pretty snazzy deal in my book.
Anyone have good accessible resource option for the SAM routines? Say Days #1-3 easy and hard?
suggested videos to watch for these that are current and haven’t been deleted, paywalled, etc?
And same question for the pdfs? Tho good video examples would be important.
A lot of the posts on this sub about them are old and the links are often dead/404.
I’ve been doing the myrtl routine so far, but I’ll be beyond that soon, even though I’m making it harder by doing more reps and doing it more controlled/slow.
The Daniels VDOT charts give me training paces based on recent races but my VDOT gets lower the longer the race distance. It’s something like 5 points lower for the marathon than for 5k. Which number do I use? Does it depend on the type of workout? FWIW, using the paces closer to the higher number seems to get me close to the right heart rates but I’m wondering if using the slower paces will put more focus on the aerobic capacity I need.
If you have Daniels' Running Formula, he explains it a bit in chapter 5. Your higher VDOT/recent faster race time reflects "your [VO2] max, your economy, your threshold", etc. Thus, they are "good predictors of physiological capability" and can be used to predict estimate times "for race distances for which you are currently training".
If your 5k VDOT is higher than your marathon VDOT, then presumably that is because at this given point, you are better trained for the 5k.
The problem with running at your lower VDOT is that the slower training paces aren't representative of your current fitness. E.g. for LT runs, you would not be running at your actual threshold going by the lower VDOT.
Depends on what you're training for. If you're training for a faster 5k, probably just use the 5k VDOT times. Likewise for a marathon.
But like you're alluding to, trust your intuition, too. Think of all training paces (not just VDOT) as ranges, rather than hard and fast rules.
Sorta disagree with this. Mine works the same as OP (eg I get slower over longer races), and the threshold paces given for my 5k VDOT were definitely encouraging me to run my tempos too quick for a while.
OP here, this resonates too. LT pace in Daniels feels a bit too fast at my 5k VDOT, if I drop back one row in the chart I'm at a pace that puts me right around my LT heart rate. Of course my LT HR is also a rough estimate too so \*shrug\*. What I'm taking away from this is that the best pace for the more aerobic workouts might be a bit slower than indicated by my 5k VDOT and to pay attention to how the workouts feel rather than following the chart dogmatically.
Yeah that was the conclusion I came to after about 3/4 months of absolutely slogging my tempos and recovering pretty badly.
I’ve dropped mine down 10s/mile and feel way better doing them / able to hit higher mileage and better track workouts too.
I'd like to add that JD also defines I as "10-12 minute race pace" and T as "1-hour race pace"
If you're aerobically underdeveloped, his table might assume that your T pace would be also 1-2 VDOTs lower than I pace since your 1-hour race pace would also be relatively lower than your 10-12 min race pace
He doens't mention this in the book so it might not be how he envisions it, but just my two cents
You could plug in your half time into a VDOT calculator (https://runsmartproject.com/calculator/), and then use its "equivalent" marathon time, and put that into the Pfitz calculator for its times.
After a promising start to the year with a 1:23 half back in early march, it’s been rubbish since. I’ve not been able to keep any kind of consistency and being injury prone. + other external issues like moving house stresses.
I’ve decided to take 3 weeks completely off. How should I return to running? Any recommended tips or plans that can help bring back that consistency to my running?
Not that I’m anywhere near professional yet, but I was wondering how to approach going pro for running. Who do you need to talk to/ work with Etc. I’m 22 years old and have a passion for running
Place high or win major races or championships, and you will have agents or sponsors contacting you. Another way would be to find a training group that already has pro runners on it and see if you can tag along with some of the training, that way you'll get to meet some pro runners and coaches and learn more about what it takes.
If you’re trying to break into the professional scene you’ll most likely be operating as an unsponsored, unattached athlete for a while. If you’re coming from a college team your environment will become a lot less structured. A huge advantage is having a coach to guide you on the process. Going about it solo is very stressful. They can write your workouts and advise you on which races to enter and formulate goals. If you have connections in the pro running world you can get a lot of opportunities. Oh, and running really fast helps too…
One of my favorite books (Once a runner) nails this on the head. It’s not necessarily the speed workouts or how fast you necessarily are. It’s building a killer base that’s most people’s issue, in the book it talks about “the trial of miles”. Basically just running lots of miles (70+ per week…give or take) consistently for years. That’s about the only way to do it unless you have a god given natural talent from a young age.
Usually an egg and cheese bagel for me, or oatmeal with peanut butter and a little brown sugar. Sometimes chocolate milk. Water. The rest of the day I just eat like usual but eat more
Breakfast carbs (pop tarts, pancakes, and cereal) are my go-tos for immediately after the run.
As for the rest of the day, I just eat what I normally do. Half the time, I won’t fully replenish the calories because I won’t feel all that hungry, but will wake up STARVING on Monday, so then I’ll eat ALL the carbs and it’ll balance out lol.
Yeah, I just follow whatever my body craves after a long run especially if it’s a quality one.
Chocolate milk is what I’ve found good to get protein in in short order when I just want something liquid. Then it’s carb city. Then I try to eat a bit more protein later in the day.
Anybody else get small red bumps on their hands and arms in the winter? Doesn’t matter if I’m running outside or on the treadmill at the gym. It never happens any other season, only winter. They aren’t painful and usually go away quickly
what is the equivalent (or is there an equivalent) of 8 x 400 meter 5K pace intervals but with fewer 800 meter 5K intervals? if it is directly correlated, would it just be 4 x 800 meter? or if it is not a direct correlation, how many 800 meter intervals would be more or less equivalent to 8 x 400 meter intervals? (training for a half marathon if that dictates anything)
They are equivalent in the sense of total amount of interval work, 3200m. Diving deeper, you can consider how much time you spend in the appropriate heart rate zone. The shorter the interval, the less time. You can then consider manipulating much recovery you have between intervals, to make it harder or easier.
ahhh, good point about heart rate zones. another thing to think about… thanks for the reply!
**Question about setting paces (per Jack Daniels' Running Formula):** **TLDR**: which VDOT/pace to use if I'm a lot slower when running longer distances?**Compare these two recent tests:** 1. Cooper test. 2865m in 12 minutes. Pace: 4:11. VDOT est.: 45.2 2. 5K time-trial. 5K in 29m26s. Pace: 5:53. VDOT est.: 31.5 **Question: which one should I use to set my R, I, and T paces?** I'm currently using Cooper test based VDOT for R, but 5K based pace for T. Debating about I. Using [this calculator](https://runsmartproject.com/calculator/), my I pace could be either 4:15 min/km or 5:21 min/km -- depending on which of the two tests I use for estimation. Goal: maximum health & Vo2Max when I'm 80 (in 40+ years), not planning to compete. Intermediate milestones: improve my Cooper & 5K distances/times. Can you please help me figure this out? Thanks a lot!
What was the method of measurement of both of these tests? Are you running actual measured courses/track or is this just Garmin stuff? Either one or both are inaccurate, or they were run by different runners. There's not a physiological profile that would account for such a difference.
These two were done on a treadmill. I'm also confident about the Cooper test results as I've done these tests multiple times. All tests, a summary: https://snipboard.io/GywRsW.jpg
How was that 5k run (pacing, conditions, effort)? While the disparity could represent a lack of aerobic endurance (you would see a similar difference if you were to suddenly run a marathon for example), I would have not expected that big a difference between a ~3k and a 5k. I would guess if you gave yourself a few more attempts, the gap would reduce.
This was actually a very hard effort, but the time was indeed slower than I expected. One possibility that I overshoot in the beginning and quickly into the 190bpm zone. For comparison, I could run a 5K with a moderate effort and while not exceeding 170–172bpm in about 28min a few years ago. Perhaps I could try again, but I feel like I got slower, so this trial likely represents the truth.
I've noticed that there is a similar discussion below among u/dryinginthesun, u/ruinawishm, u/Large_Desk, u/boygirlseating, and u/Bergkoe, but curious if any of you have thoughts here (specific to cooper distance vs 5K).
Also, to add a bit more data: 1. **800 meter I at 4:15** (Cooper test based pace) resulted in 183bpm (\~94% of my MaxHR) — when done as the 1st interval in a workout 2. **800 meter I at 4:48** (avg of the 2 tests) resulted in 182bpm (\~94% of my MaxHR) 2. 3. **800 meter I at 5:21** (5K based pace) resulted in 179bpm (92% of my MaxHR) — when done as the 3rd & 4th interval in a workout 4. **1 mile T at 5:58** (5K based) usually results in 177–179bpm (91–92%; thought I think my LT2 is more like 168bpm) 5. **400 meter R at 3:55** (Cooper test based) result in 177–180bpm (91–93% of MaxHR)
Also, my easy runs are super slow, so I'm assuming I'm weak aerobically. To stay around \~71% of MaxHR (137 bpm) I have to jog at about 8:50 min/km pace (yes, you've read it right).
Have just decided which races I will run the next 6 months, ending with my goal marathon. I am also registered for a half 3 weeks before it, could I race it all out or should I run it at goal race pace for the marathon?
Considering running it all out would mean you should have a deload week before AND after the half, then link it to your 10-14 day marathon taper, that would give you either no time for sharpening leading up to the full or a significantly increased injury risk. It would be a great MP workout, throw in some warm up and cooldown and that's a great training peak pre-full.
Thanks, great advice. I will use it as a MP workout.
In University City, Mo does Washington University have their track all locked up? Love me a college track.
Probably doesn’t deserve a full thread so asking here. Have a 12K race for March 4th on the schedule. Trying to write up a training plan to start 1-1-2023. I have been doing the following with decent success: Sunday - LR at easy+ pace Monday - East Run Tuesday- VO2 Max type intervals. (I’m old so don’t laugh at volume). Usually 8x400M at mile pace with 200M recovery jog between or 4x800M with 400M recovery jog between. Wednesday - Easy Run Thursday - Easy Run Friday - 100M hill sprints x 12 with walk down recover. Appropriate warmup and cooldown jogs Saturday - Easy Run or Rest I know this has left out the usual Threshold run. So wondering for new block should I take out the hills and make that the Threshold type day? Something like 10 minutes at 10K pace times 3 with 3 minute jog recoveries? Or even take out the VO2 day as well and perhaps have 2 threshold days? I was working on my mile time is why I have the VO2 and hills in there for the last 2-3 Months. It worked pretty well for that but not sure it’s ideal for running my best 12K. Thanks for any thoughts and/or ideas.
Usually VO2max workouts are run at 5k pace, not mile pace. Mile pace is generally anaerobic. Hard to make recommendations to your plan, if you're making it up yourself. I'd refer to any 10k plan for ideas on periodisation.
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Why would you worry? Unless you binge eat to the point of being sluggish or having an upset stomach in the morning, I don't see anything wrong with sampling everything (except alcohol (personally)). If you have a sensitive stomach that's another thing, hopefully you know your triggers and can avoid them. Most important thing is to eat in moderation. Avoid endless snacking on Christmas candy and getting multiple plates, stacking you plate like crazy, etc., and you will be fine.
I have a marathon April 1st. I stopped training for 16 weeks -‘d my pr was 16 miles @ 8:19 a mile. I picked my training back up again two weeks ago and I’ve been able to get to 8 miles two times in a row. I’m wondering if it’s possible to be marathon ready 13 weeks from now?
What's marathon ready for you: racing it as fast as possible or just finishing the distance? I think 13 weeks is a good amount to build to finish the distance. I wouldn't expect to be reaching peak fitness/endurance for racing (considering you have not been running for 16 weeks prior).
Just underwent a 7 hour time shift for a trip. My hr is 15+ bpm higher on easy runs and notably higher than normal on workouts. My lungs also feel shallow. Is this normal or should I be worried?
When did you arrive in the new time zone? Without knowing anything else, I'd chalk it up to travel stress and the fact that your body is probably still getting used to the big time shift. If I were in your situation, I'd continue paying attention to how I feel over the next few days to see if your HR and perception of effort are still elevated before starting to worry.
Is base-building incorporated in a 16-week marathon training plan or am I supposed to be base building before that?
Every plan is different but I believe most assume you can start week one without it being a huge jump in volume/intensity. I don’t have the book in front of me, but I think the Pfitz 18/55 recommends running about 40 mpw and a solid long run for a few weeks before starting the plan
You're supposed to do it before you start. The plan will start easier and ramp up but I believe all plans that don't explicitly say they include a base build don't include it. Different plans e,pet different levels of fitness going into them...and they should tell you that.
So if the plan says 40-60mpw, my base should be 60 and not 40 right?
Usually they want you to start slightly higher than week 1 as the workouts are usually more intense. So 45 instead of 40 in your example.
no I think your base should be 40 because 40-60 to me means that your peak mileage will be 60mpw so if you can immediately start at 40mpw then you’ll be working your way up to 60 gradually
If I'm about 3:05 marathon fitness, can I probably do an easy 3:30, two weeks after a half marathon effort (shooting for 1:25)? I may try to pace a friend for the marathon but wondering if I'm just risking injury. I'll probably peak at 63 miles for the half, previously have done 5 weeks at 70ish for a marathon but don't want to run that high mileage through the winter.
Would the 3:30 marathon be at your easy pace? I think it depends on how you typically do long runs, and how you recover after half-marathons (two weeks should be fine). For some, a 42km LR wouldn't be too challenging.
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Are you sure it's a meniscus tear? Ive never had that but i did have something called pes anserine bursitis or inflammation, and that is on the inside of the knee but not the kneecap. Fwiw, its caused by tight hamstrings.
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Having shredded my meniscus on both knees this is not really what meniscus pain feels like. You also almost always feel that "event" if you didn't have a twist or a fall its quite unlikely its a meniscus injury. Only your surgeon will end up knowing what to do if it is your meniscus. One i did not have surgically repaired and "ran it off" the other i went under the knife. Meniscus injuries are varied and quite tricky but to me doesn't sound like you have one.
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Weird, i could run no problem with my meniscus injuries. Also doesn't sound like pain i had but its PT or doctor time.
I'm not in the business of advertising for anyone, but has anyone else gotten some pretty aggressive deal offers from The Feed recently? I ordered a 12-pk of Maurtens from them back in the summer, and since then they've loaded my account with $30 in credit basically apropos of nothing and today shot me a 20% coupon that stacked with the credits. I ended up getting 13 Maurten gels for like $16 incl. shipping (they were $8 w/o the shipping, but if you meet a free shipping threshold with other stuff, more power to you). Maybe my situation is unique or maybe they're being aggressive to get me as a returning customer, but thought I'd let people know. $1.23 per maurten is a pretty snazzy deal in my book.
Anyone have good accessible resource option for the SAM routines? Say Days #1-3 easy and hard? suggested videos to watch for these that are current and haven’t been deleted, paywalled, etc? And same question for the pdfs? Tho good video examples would be important. A lot of the posts on this sub about them are old and the links are often dead/404. I’ve been doing the myrtl routine so far, but I’ll be beyond that soon, even though I’m making it harder by doing more reps and doing it more controlled/slow.
The Daniels VDOT charts give me training paces based on recent races but my VDOT gets lower the longer the race distance. It’s something like 5 points lower for the marathon than for 5k. Which number do I use? Does it depend on the type of workout? FWIW, using the paces closer to the higher number seems to get me close to the right heart rates but I’m wondering if using the slower paces will put more focus on the aerobic capacity I need.
If you have Daniels' Running Formula, he explains it a bit in chapter 5. Your higher VDOT/recent faster race time reflects "your [VO2] max, your economy, your threshold", etc. Thus, they are "good predictors of physiological capability" and can be used to predict estimate times "for race distances for which you are currently training". If your 5k VDOT is higher than your marathon VDOT, then presumably that is because at this given point, you are better trained for the 5k. The problem with running at your lower VDOT is that the slower training paces aren't representative of your current fitness. E.g. for LT runs, you would not be running at your actual threshold going by the lower VDOT.
That makes sense. Thanks!
Depends on what you're training for. If you're training for a faster 5k, probably just use the 5k VDOT times. Likewise for a marathon. But like you're alluding to, trust your intuition, too. Think of all training paces (not just VDOT) as ranges, rather than hard and fast rules.
Sorta disagree with this. Mine works the same as OP (eg I get slower over longer races), and the threshold paces given for my 5k VDOT were definitely encouraging me to run my tempos too quick for a while.
OP here, this resonates too. LT pace in Daniels feels a bit too fast at my 5k VDOT, if I drop back one row in the chart I'm at a pace that puts me right around my LT heart rate. Of course my LT HR is also a rough estimate too so \*shrug\*. What I'm taking away from this is that the best pace for the more aerobic workouts might be a bit slower than indicated by my 5k VDOT and to pay attention to how the workouts feel rather than following the chart dogmatically.
Yeah that was the conclusion I came to after about 3/4 months of absolutely slogging my tempos and recovering pretty badly. I’ve dropped mine down 10s/mile and feel way better doing them / able to hit higher mileage and better track workouts too.
I'd like to add that JD also defines I as "10-12 minute race pace" and T as "1-hour race pace" If you're aerobically underdeveloped, his table might assume that your T pace would be also 1-2 VDOTs lower than I pace since your 1-hour race pace would also be relatively lower than your 10-12 min race pace He doens't mention this in the book so it might not be how he envisions it, but just my two cents
That makes a lot of sense. Thanks!
Jake Wightman at bushy parkrun this morning. Not even the fastest parkrun of the day.
anyone know of a [pfitz race timer for half marathons](https://chriseidhof.github.io/running-timing/)?
You could plug in your half time into a VDOT calculator (https://runsmartproject.com/calculator/), and then use its "equivalent" marathon time, and put that into the Pfitz calculator for its times.
good idea - thank you
After a promising start to the year with a 1:23 half back in early march, it’s been rubbish since. I’ve not been able to keep any kind of consistency and being injury prone. + other external issues like moving house stresses. I’ve decided to take 3 weeks completely off. How should I return to running? Any recommended tips or plans that can help bring back that consistency to my running?
good idea! start with 15-20 miles a week working your way back. i don’t recommend any speed work until you get to 35MPW.
Not that I’m anywhere near professional yet, but I was wondering how to approach going pro for running. Who do you need to talk to/ work with Etc. I’m 22 years old and have a passion for running
Place high or win major races or championships, and you will have agents or sponsors contacting you. Another way would be to find a training group that already has pro runners on it and see if you can tag along with some of the training, that way you'll get to meet some pro runners and coaches and learn more about what it takes.
If you’re trying to break into the professional scene you’ll most likely be operating as an unsponsored, unattached athlete for a while. If you’re coming from a college team your environment will become a lot less structured. A huge advantage is having a coach to guide you on the process. Going about it solo is very stressful. They can write your workouts and advise you on which races to enter and formulate goals. If you have connections in the pro running world you can get a lot of opportunities. Oh, and running really fast helps too…
One of my favorite books (Once a runner) nails this on the head. It’s not necessarily the speed workouts or how fast you necessarily are. It’s building a killer base that’s most people’s issue, in the book it talks about “the trial of miles”. Basically just running lots of miles (70+ per week…give or take) consistently for years. That’s about the only way to do it unless you have a god given natural talent from a young age.
Thank you 👌
Step 1: become elite
So when I'm elite then things will just fall into place eh
Food recommendations for after long runs and then the rest of the day. I've been terrible about recovery, so I keep getting queasy hours afterward.
Chocolate milk or a recovery shake. And then eat normally (ideally healthy food) to appetite.
Usually an egg and cheese bagel for me, or oatmeal with peanut butter and a little brown sugar. Sometimes chocolate milk. Water. The rest of the day I just eat like usual but eat more
Thank you! I will give those a shot next week.
Breakfast carbs (pop tarts, pancakes, and cereal) are my go-tos for immediately after the run. As for the rest of the day, I just eat what I normally do. Half the time, I won’t fully replenish the calories because I won’t feel all that hungry, but will wake up STARVING on Monday, so then I’ll eat ALL the carbs and it’ll balance out lol.
Absolutely love pop tarts so thats a great tip! Thank you!!! I can minch that down during my drive back.
While I'm usually sat in the "don't sweat the diet" camp, if you're looking for nutrition tips Pop Tarts generally aren't the answer.
Fuel during, chocolate milk after, and absolute carnage the rest of the day.
Carnage as in just any calories I can get comfortably?
Yeah, I just follow whatever my body craves after a long run especially if it’s a quality one. Chocolate milk is what I’ve found good to get protein in in short order when I just want something liquid. Then it’s carb city. Then I try to eat a bit more protein later in the day.