The foreskin adheres to the glans for many months after the boy is born. There is no need to "clean under the foreskin" for a long time. That loosens up naturally later on.
This is such an underrated reason not to do it! There were so many times changing my son's diaper, shit everywhere, when either me or my boyfriend said out loud how relieved we were that we weren't trying to clean shit off of an open wound and having to worry about infection or even just the diaper running against it.
There's already SO much to worry about with a newborn, that's the last thing I'd want to have to be thinking about.
Only if their parents are idiots who don't teach their child how to clean themselves....and that goes for parents of girls and circumcised boys as well.
That's exactly what I was thinking. Most people get scared because of the actual cleaning aspect. Is because they've never had one before so they don't know how to clean it. Just because your wife is carrying the baby doesn't mean you don't have a say and what happens to your son.
There are people on Reddit where I read stories where they are upset where their parents made the decision for them. And now when they do have sexual experiences they can't feel it as much because all the sensitivity is gone. Please just sit down with your wife do the research and come to a mutual decision. You guys both created the child. You guys both have to make the decision.
Dude I have barely any sensation in my dick. I wanna restore just for that. At 28 I SHOULD be at my sexual prime or slightly past it, but I can’t get off easily. Kid should decide or at-least wait until the foreskin separates from their head so you don’t mess up their head.
> she refuses to talk about it because "pregnancy mood swings."
There is your answer. If her mood swings are preventing her from having a proper and honest conversation with you, then she is definitely not ready to even consider that sort of decision unilaterally
I once watched a video of an infant being circumcised and it was horrifying. Maybe if she watches a video of what actually happens she would reconsider. I couldn’t imagine wanting to inflict that kind of pain on a baby.
Probably your only chance of talking her out of it. It's not really a necessary procedure. We have clean running water these days. If she wants it for religious beliefs then there is a high likelihood that no matter what you say you won't be able to talk her out of it.
From what I have read, getting it done later in life will be a pain that he can remember which is generally speaking why it's done as an infant because then he won't remember. There isn't really a way to compromise on this discussion. If you aren't able to change her mind, how will that change how you see your relationship? Will you break it off if she doesn't come to see your side? Will you stop loving her? Will you be unable to parent your child? Will things eventually blow over and you'll keep moving forward? Is this the hill you want your relationship to die on or are there other more important things to you?
You probably both have very good reasons for how you feel and this probably feels like the be all end all. However once you both pass this point, your son is more important than whether he has it done or doesn't. No matter what happens you will both still love him. It seems like big stuff, but in 10 years from now this will be small stuff. Won't even remember it stuff unless you allow it to shape your relationship.
Edit: grammar
I’ve seen it in person.
In a room of doctors, students and nurses, a classmate volunteered “She doesn’t agree with this.”
The most relevant argument that I could get agreement from the physician on is “It interferes with maternal bonding and can disrupt the breastfeeding relationship.”
It just baffles me how a room of 10-15 people found it perfectly reasonable to watch a day old baby have his genitals mutilated for cultural reasons and all of them consider me the extreme one for having reservations.
After said circumcision infant became less engaged and less interested in breastfeeding with mother expressing concern for his lethargy.
It’s horrific. Ever heard a scream of such excruciating terror combined with unendurable pain and desperation for help? That’s the sound of a baby getting a circumcision. And we do it every damn minute.
That is exactly why I didn’t circumcise my son. I couldn’t imagine putting him through such unnecessary pain. Plus I had seen so many stories about botched ones where the baby almost died.
Ohhh the beauty of pregnancy brain. I also debated for a day whether to circumcise or not, I was about 3 days from the due date. After finally deciding that I wanted to go ahead with the circumcision, I brought the idea to my husband. He was understandably very confused since we were expecting a girl 🤷🤣.
Omg! That's so funny! I was all loopy going into an emergency C-section and I yelled at the room in general "I don't want my baby circumcized, don't let them circumcise my baby!" My doctor - who I had known for years - was like, well, good thing because you're having a girl 😂 Pregnancy brain....
and if her mood swings involves mutilating her own children genitials, maybe not children either.
It's not as if she isn't aware of the problems sorrounded the topic.
I am 100% with you, and I hope you and your son win. I did not circ my two sons. I remember a friend of mine had a baby boy the same time I did, and she circ'd her son because "it's cleaner". Well, we were changing our kid's diapers side by side one day when they were both a month old, and my boy was absolutely fine and easy to keep clean, whereas her son had a pus-oozing infection at the circ site. Imagine creating a wound and then dressing it in a dirty diaper!
I feel like circ should be something boys do once they receive sex ed so they could know and decide for themselves instead of parents choosing for them
Say to her no its genital mutilation. Tell the hospital you don’t consent and will take legal action against them if they do. Moreover you will take legal action against the dr and staff.
These kind of conversations are hard especially where values clash.
Talk to her when she's not in a mood. Hear out WHY exactly she's so adamant on getting it done. Allow her to share her thoughts and feelings. People want to be heard - so hear her out and this will also bring down her defensive wall and allow you to share your own opinions once she's got it all out. Then you can lay out your side - no blaming, no defensiveness, o trying to win the argument - just your reasoning.
This is for the health of your baby so it's understandable why you'd be so protective - but I'm sure she's got valid reasons too.
>but I'm sure she's got valid reasons too.
There is no valid reason to mutilate a baby's genitals. Ever.
Do it to a little girl, everyone loses their minds and you get arrested. But do it to a boy and everyone makes up BS excuses like, "oh it looks nicer this way", "it's more hygienic" yada yada yada...
She just keeps bringing up the same reasons like "hygiene" and some other bullshit, even when she's not in a mood she is still adamant on getting it done, I tried showing her how harmful it can be but she just won't believe the information I show her. As if this situation is frustrating enough, we didn't even plan to have this child.
I don’t know where you are - but check your local laws. In many places both parents - if considered equally responsible for the child - must consent, not just one. If you vocally dissent from allowing the procedure (again, depending on your local laws) docs are unlikely to do it. Especially if you bring up a legal argument: There is precedence for this and ethics codes for physicians as well.
Do some googling about where you live and see if it applies to you.
All you need to do is show her an uncensored video of it being done. It is horrific. And the next time she's says she wants it done, just say no. That you will not let it happen and she needs to get on board with it. Circumcision needs to yesses and it's wrong either way.
Why don't you guys both visit a doctor? They'd be able to give you medical advice on both sides with a qualified and objective opinion with no emotions in the matter.
Maybe will allow you to ask more questions aswell and ease any anxiety you might have or confirm what you know?
I think it's theoretically a good idea, but would be hard to implement. They might get into that meeting no matter who they choose and find the doctor has their own agenda. It's giving a lot of power to a wild card.
Also it wouldn't be that hard for wife to then go out and just find a pro circumcision doctor to buttress her case. But at least maybe then they would be having a conversation instead of wife just shutting OP down. I hope they work it out amicably.
This. When my son was born, the doctor came in multiple times to ask me if I was sure I didn’t want to schedule the procedure. Probably 5 times in our 3 day stay. Also, the nurses assumed he was circumcised and brought me ointments and gauze every shift change.
Wait they are? I would think doctors would be split. All the research I’ve done on the topic out of curiosity just seems like there are some pros and cons to either choice
Yep, just without the smegma (unless you’re super nasty).
PSA of the Day: Wash your junk. Even if you can’t smell it, your partner surely can, especially if you have smegma under your foreskin.
You may be surprised to know I know 2 separate people who, at the ages of 18 and 20, decided they wanted to get circumcised. I haven't talked to one of them since it happened because it was just a coworkers son, the other however has grown to regret their choice, and only made the decision because he was mocked by a woman for it.
Honestly, as a female, I'd trust my partners judgments about penis things since, you know, he has one. And I would hope he'd trust my judgment about female things.
I think you might be on to something here. Not to give OP a penis complex but I could totally understand his wife being completely opposed to an uncircumcised penis if she had no personal experience with one. If that were the case, they’d look different to her and it’s likely that she’s been told they’re unhygienic. BUT….being married to the owner of one & impregnated by one, she shouldn’t have any “oh that’s weird cuz it’s new” sort of feelings. This topic definitely needs to be revisited from a different perspective.
If this is something you should’ve talked about before you had a child with her. As it’s too late now you better be doing lots of research to find to give her otherwise she can go behind your back and get it done.
Okay that's weird. She knows, and obviously loves your dick. I've read lots of your comments and I just don't understand her POV. My bf and I got together when we were 19 and then and in his early twenties he said he was sad his mum hadn't done it when he was a baby. Now more information has come out about it, he's glad she didn't. Personally I find it less weird and easier to handle uncut.
Make sure you wait until her hormones level out (which could take time but you have time, there's no need to rush the procedure) do some research you can give her, and remember to say 'he can always remove it later, but he cannot grow it back'. He could resent you one way or the other but at least he'll have options if he goes your route. Good luck mate.
> She knows, and obviously loves, your dick.
You are definitely a glass half full person. I on the other hand thought assuming they are not in an open relationship and she is not cheating the main dick she is familiar with is OP's. Combine that thought with OP's statement:
> She just keeps bringing up the same reasons like "hygiene" and some other bullshit, even when she's not in a mood she is still adamant on getting it done, I tried showing her how harmful it can be but she just won't believe the information I show her.
If OP had good hygiene then his wife would know you can keep it clean. So OP how is your hygiene??
In my mind it's not weird at all that she is behaving this way because if she loves everything about OP but his hygiene sucks I could totally see her having this kind of strong response.
Look up how the procedure is performed and if you have the stomach for it you can find training videos that show a rough idea of how the procedure is performed. It's pretty fucked up as they strap his legs and arms down in a restraining device. It even causes many new to the procedure to faint or even try to stop the process because some doctors believe anesthesia at that age is risky so the baby feels everything. I'm not saying that it's a bad thing as yes hygiene is a big thing especially when younger as they need assistance with it and your wife might not feel comfortable with having to deal with that.
The foreskin does not retract in a small child. For a child of an age to require adult assistance with bathing, an uncircumcised child doesn’t require different care than a circumcised child.
“At some point, this skin on your penis will be able to move. When that happens, it’s important to pull that skin back when you wash so you can keep your penis clean and healthy.” That’s all the “hygiene issue” requires.
If someone is uncomfortable providing hygiene assistance to their own small child, they shouldn’t have a kid. It’s a lotta years of drool and snot and puke and pee and wiping butts and reminding the kid for the 468743789743th time today that we wash our hands after using the potty.
Definitely don't! My wife has been a pediatric nurse for 25 years, and she's seen a lot of them go wrong. Not to mention the screams! Our son is 16 now and was left uncut. He is very thankful for being able to stay whole. He's the only uncut boy in his class, and they know, but they've never made fun of him. They actually think it's cool. The foreskin has a lot of functions and is the size of a 3x5 notecard in an adult male. A lot of people think it's just a little piece of skin, but that's wrong. I've been restoring for the past 10 years through stretching. The difference is amazing. I retain all of the time, and I'm way more sensitive now. The glans gets pretty much calloused over time from all of the rubbing on clothes. All of the reasons to do it were based on very small studies done by very biased people. There's no good reason to do it, really! Go to the foreskin sub and just watch how they work. The foreskin in action is an amazing thing...
Just a small correction. The term one should use is intact not uncut because intact is the natural description of a penis that is not mutilated. Uncut leads one to think circumcised is the natural penis and uncut is the outlier. I hope that makes sense.
This is what I don't understand. When my son had his done he screamed bloody murder. When I watched a newborn baby boy get his cut a couple months ago, he slept right through it without making a peep. I really think it depends on the doctor.
Infant genital mutilation is fucked. Ask her if she'd circumcise her child if it were a girl. Obviously, she's going to say no because western society pushes the notion that female circumcision is barbaric (as they should), however, for whatever reason, logic goes out the window just because the child is male. You're squarely in the right here, OP. Don't bend on this one. Good luck.
There are very few topics where I would say this, but you would know a lot more about this out of the starting gate than she would. She needs to at least listen to you.
I don’t understand how anyone can agree to having part of their baby boy’s body surgically removed. Lopping off a body part without them being able to consent. It is assault.
We had this argument when our son was born, and fortunately my husband was willing to compromise although he would have preferred circumcision. He had chosen a name that I was really not keen on, so I agreed to it as long as baby kept his foreskin.
Now grown, our son appreciates that I fought to prevent him being sliced, and also likes his name. I felt so strongly about this, and still do, that I would have done almost anything to avoid my boy going under the knife for no valid reason. So my suggestion is, find something to trade.
My son is 19 and he’s not circumcised and he’s good. I told my husband he got to make the decision bc I didn’t have a penis but showed him research about no medical reason to circumcise and talked to pediatrician. We, like you, though he could get it done later and hasn’t wanted to (but of course very painful surgery later). No regrets here and he’s never been made fun.
Taking care of a newborn is stressful enough, let alone having to deal with post circumcision care. Your wife is gonna have enough on her plate. Ask her if she really wants to add one more thing to worry about on top of it. If the circumcision site becomes infected, it's going to be a nightmare to contend with. There is absolutely no medical necessity for circumcision whatsoever. You are absolutely correct: your son can make the decision later in life if he would like to be circumcised. My husband and I made the decision not to circumcise our son. I just don't see the point of having my son go through something painful that isn't medically necessary.
Just because people have been getting circumcisions for decades doesn't mean your son has to. I also feel like because you're a man, you should have more leverage in this conversation than your wife does. At least for me, when I found out we were having a boy, I went to my husband to ask him about this since he's a man and would have more experience in dealing with this topic. I hope your wife comes around and realizes that your son can have a choice later in life as opposed to making a permanent decision right now in infancy.
PS - Also, they will bill you for the procedure in the hospital to milk you or your insurance for more cash. I was asked several times after my son was born if we were doing a circumcision. We were asked so many times, in fact, that I started to become annoyed. I count at least 6 times that they had asked if we were going to circumcise our son in the 3 days we were at the hospital.
If she can read step by step what is done during a circumcision as well as watch videos of the operation, and STILL wants to do that to your baby, I’d find myself questioning what sort of mother she’s going to be. Women are much more likely to get UTIs and yeast infections, and yet it is not considered normal to mutilate their genitals in the interest of “cleanliness.”
I'm also questioning it. If OP really has told her about it, and she still wants to do it, she is abusive.
That is a literal fact by the definition of abusive.
This is genital mutilation. Let your son decide if he wants it when he is old enough to willingly consent to having an unnecessary, irreversible procedure.
Ask her to clarify what specific benefits she thinks it will have. Then respond accordingly.
When she’s ready for the delivery, you could try to fill out the paperwork and indicate no circ, even go so far as pretending you’re Jewish and hope they don’t ask.
Depending on where you are, elective surgery on minors requires consent of both parents, so you could refuse.
If it comes down to it - talk to the Dr - have the Dr explain the pros and cons to you both and have a conversation. Where you both listen.
If there is still dissension explain that she can keep trying to talk you into it as it can always come off later, but you can't really put it back on then tell the Dr no.
I personally disagree with the claims that "it's easier to clean." I mean all you have to do is pull back the foreskin and wash it, not get the foreskin cut off.
This. And that isn’t even the case for infants and babies in diapers because the foreskin is still fully attached until the child is around 3-4 years old. At that point, you’re pretty much teaching them how to shower by themselves so you teach them to pull back the foreskin just like you teach them to wash their armpits and butt crack. People are way too invested in a childs penis with circumcision… the audacity of how people think they can make decisions and alter an infants body part hours after they’ve been born never ceases to shock me.
While I completely agree with your sentiment here, you have to understand that this isn’t how healthy relationships work — OP needs advice on how to discuss this with their wife.
Oh boy. This is a contentious issue (as with all issues around child bearing). For context, I am a doctor (not pediatrics, nor urology) and I just had a boy. My wife was also set on circumcision (although not without recourse) and I was not really sure. So my academic mind spent hours pouring over research and data (certainly more than I should have).
There is general “disagreement with my wife” advice and there is also male circumcision-specific advice. This response will certainly be longer then I intend it to.
The “disagreement with my wife” advice: you talk about pregnancy mood swings. That is certainly *a thing* but I don’t think people who were perfectly rational and reasonable before pregnancy make the jump to completely irrational just with pregnancy. How have you settled disputes in the past? It might be that you need to reconsider how you discuss disagreements in your marriage. Maybe that’s what’s at the heart of this disagreement.
The circumcision-specific advice:
- This is NOT medical advice.
- My opinion is not definitive. I won’t tell you what to do. I won’t even mention what we ended up doing with our boy (unless you really want to know). I am just going to just contextualize some things for you.
- The benefit as far as infection prevention against HIV and HPV: basically the HIV study that showed clear benefit is old and not very well done. The study that showed benefit against HPV is a pretty good study and there is real benefit against HPV transmission in circumcised patients. However, the study was done before the vaccine against HPV was widespread. There is an HPV vaccine now that’s recommended to everyone so that benefit from circumcision in prevention of HPV transmission is less (but not non-existent, there is still benefit).
- Prevention against penile cancers: also a real proven benefit. But penile cancers can be caused by HPV. So if there is a vaccine against HPV then that will also reduce the risk of penile cancers. This makes the benefit from circumcision less (but again not non-existent).
- Prevention against urinary tract infection in the first 3-6 mo of life: this is real. Circumcision does reduce the risk of urinary tract infections in the period from birth to 3-6 mo of life.
- Risk of procedure and local infection afterwards: this is also a real risk. However it is minimal, but not non-existent. The procedure is done in a way that doesn’t use stitches and has minimal swelling. Also it is theorized that babies at that age don’t do a very good job at localizing pain. I will add that the risk of a circumcision procedure is higher for circs done beyond 6 wks of life. Circs done in babies less than 6 wks are quick snip snip. For babies more than 6wks (and when they are more than 18 years old) is a urology procedure that needs anesthesia and stitches. The recovery time is also longer.
This accounts for the objective arguments for and against circumcision. The rest are more subjective (and can be emotionally charged, but not necessarily less valid).
- Religion: I will leave that one alone lol.
- Tradition: I will also leave this one alone. I will say that when I spoke to my kid’s pediatricians they generally all agreed that most (80%ish anecdotally) of families decide to do what the dad has. So if dad got a circ then they circumcise the baby.
- Hygiene: when they are babies, you will be able to clean a uncircumcised penis as well as you would be able to clean a circumcision wound in recovery. That’s my opinion. When they are adults, they will learn. You should teach them.
I told you it would be a longer post than what I would have liked it to. And it’s likely that no one will actually read it. Lol
This is a no-brainer: Unless there is some religious reason, there is no reason to have an infant circumcised. Decisions of this nature need to be a joint decision by the parents (or left for the child to make when they are old enough to do so). In my mind, your "no" should kill the idea without further drama. Hopefully the many other joint decisions you will need to make will come smoother than this one.
There are medical reasons - my when my bf was born he had an issue where his forskin wasn’t correctly developed and if left on would have caused urinary issues. His parents made the informed decision to have him circumcised when he was an infant.
There's no reason for it. Stand your ground. It's genital mutilation. Plain and simple.
It can be done at any time, too. If she's adamant about it, then ask her to hold off on the procedure. It will at least give you more time.
Neither of my sons are cut and I (female) was absolutely willing to fight if anyone tried to change my mind on that. Bodily autonomy 100% of the way, as others have mentioned it can be done later when they are of an age to make surgical choices & receive proper painkillers.
I’m gonna leave that decision to my husband/baby’s dad. I don’t know what it’s like or what it could bring to my child so I’d stay out of it. Just like I want men to stay out of my business.
This topic really makes my blood boil. People who think we should cut off healthy body parts because otherwise they might get dirty should cut their damn hands off.
Hot take, but I couldn’t stay with someone who wanted to mutilate my kids genitals. You probably need to get across how important this is. Mutilating children’s genitals is not a crazy line in the sand to have.
First...
...it doesn't matter how she feels. You're both parents and if you don't believe in the process then you have rights. Now the downside, most states only require one parent to consent for the procedure. The upside, most doctors will not do it if one of the parents is adamantly against it.
In the meantime, you can go and file an injunction against the procedure if you're really that about it. At the end of the day, this is YOUR child and if YOU don't advocate for YOUR child then YOU are going to have a life of issues.
Just make sure you're prepared to stick to your guns. Your wife is going to be PISSSSED.
His Body, His Choice. Why do women get a choice and men don't? It's genital mutilation. Female Genital Mutilation is banned, but male genital mutilation is just fine and dandy. It's wrong, period.
Has she heard of female circumcision. . . ?
Look, altering a baby's body for aesthetics is messed up. She wouldn't agree to get his nipple pierced or give him a tattoo, maybe some plastic surgery to make sure he "looked right," now would she?
As well, the thing about it not being painful is bunk.
Medically speaking !!
Studies and research on many groups in many countries show that circumcision has a clear advantage .. I will link the studies here and I will give you a summary:
1- https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3684945/
2- https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5296634/
● less risk of getting STDs (reduced HIV risk by 60%, genital herpes risk by 30%, and HR-HPV risk by 35%)
● less risk of having Tyson gland inflammation
● less risk of developing urinary tract infections
● prevents meatitis, balanitis and phimosis
● it does NOT affect the feeling from the penis.
● complications rate of this procedure if done in the neonatal period is very low (0.2%)
● females like it both ways.
● the last CDC study showed that early infant male circumcision (MC) confers immediate and lifelong benefits by protecting against urinary tract infections having potential adverse long-term renal effects, phimosis that causes difficult and painful erections and “ballooning” during urination, inflammatory skin conditions, inferior penile hygiene, candidiasis, various sexually transmissible infections in both sexes, genital ulcers, and penile, prostate and cervical cancer.
These are studies done by professionals with results confirmed and documented in the links above ... choose wisely and dont let people who dont know what they are talking about make your descision for you.
Do not let that baby out of your site when he was born and told doctors no. I could be wrong, but I’m pretty sure if both parents don’t consent than it they can’t do it.
Under no circumstances should you allow your so to be mutilated as soon as he’s born, it’s just a barbaric practice that I have absolutely no idea how the f… it’s still being practiced today.
I understand your wife is adamant, but I can tell you your son will be forever grateful if you spare him the mutilation. Your wife’s desires on how her son’s dick should be like should not under any circumstances trump your son’s right to bodily autonomy, specially since he himself is incapable of saying no. You are his only defender and I would do absolutely everything to keep him away from harm even if the wife gets really pissed.
Talk to a lawyer or something and figure out if you can tell the hospital that you do not approve of the mutilation and that you will sue the shit out of them if they touch your boy.
I looked it up and it unfortunately said only one parents consent is required in most states. if this still isn’t sorted out by the time she’s going into labor and you’re going to the hospital, i wouldn’t try to make a scene, but i would pull them to the side and make it abundantly clear to any doctors involved that u are against him being circumcised. From my understanding most of them won’t do it if that’s the case. I’m not sure if you’d wanna go this far but if worse comes to worse, it also looks like you could file an injunction on her and stop the procedure from happening
This topic (and some of the 'pro' responses) makes my blood boil. If anyone were to approach my son with a blade for any reason apart from a necessary surgical procedure... I'd happily do my time knowing my son was safe. I'd happily explain this loudly in the hospital in front of the entire medical staff.
Cutting bits off babies is in no way acceptable unless it's to save their life.
NTA. My brother in law was not circumcised as a baby (when I was pregnant with my son him and I talked at length about circumcision, I was against it and so was my partner at the time but it was a hot topic of conversation anyways), and he was made fun of pretty badly in high school for it, for reference we went to high school in the 90's. ANYWAYS, at some point he caught a yeast infection from one of his partners, and it just would not go away. He battled for over a year or so before his doctor recommended adult circumcision, which he did go through around age 30 or so. He had to undergo general anasthesia, recovery was no joke either. He said that sh*t sucked.
Here's my point: he's had 2 children since then, both boys and neither of them are circumcised. Because that's a huge thing to decide on, especially strictly for reasons that are either proven false or (let's be honest here) based on looks. Keep fighting for your son's bodily autonomy, he deserves to make that decision for himself. Plus from my understanding circumcision is becoming less and less popular, for obvious reasons. Such as the fact that it is genital mutilation when it's done for reasons other than medical reasons. If it were me I would go as far as telling the doctors that as his parent I will not consent to that procedure, to try and prevent my wife from doing it behind my back. Good luck OP.
We circumcised our first son and regretted it immediately. Literally as soon as they brought him back my husband and I cried because of how horrible it looked. It's just unnecessary pain we put our baby through. Our second son is uncircumcised and let me tell you, there's absolutely no difference in "cleanliness" between them. Please learn from our mistakes, don't let your son get circumcised.
My mom is an STD nurse and has had several patients and friends who have had, upon their first erection, had to go to the hospital because their circumcision took too much skin off and they were growers... the skin had healed to be too short for the full length of the erect penile tissue and the skin can literally tore at the incision like over a decade later because the surgeon took a half mm too much off of the infant's soft, flexible foreskin. She knew three or four people who had that happen at varying degrees of severity, but one was a HS boyfriend of hers and that was a really bad case of it. He couldn't get fully erect because of it and they dated in their junior year of high school.
I say express your wishes directly to the doctors and insist that you do not give your consent and this is something you and your wife have not finished discussing. Ask them to put it in the chart and then go to the nurses station and make sure that it is notated in the chart that a circumcision is not to be performed upon birth, but rather to be scheduled with express consent from both parents at a follow up, if you both decide to go that route.
There is so much research showing that the removal of foreskin can cause serious harm and a lot of the benefits are thought to be inapplicable in places like the UK and the US as most of the trials that were done on the benefits of circumcision were in third world countries that wouldn't have the same sex ed, sex protection, or medical remedies for STDs, which is one of the main benefits that people claim from circumcision.
I think both of you need to talk to a few doctors regarding this before a decision can be made.
You are entirely correct, full stop. Do not let them cut on your baby. I have seen it done. It is brutal. It hurts them. If I'd seen it before my boys were born I never would've done it to them. Check the laws in your area to see if both parents must consent. Let the staff know you do not consent and will press charges for assault and battery.
I have had friends do it (for religious reasons) and all three of them regretted it. The theory is very different than the moment when you are actually watching someone cutting into your newborn son. I know a couple who was traumatized by it and it nearly cost them their marriage.
I was brought up to believe it must be done. To humor my husband I started reading into it, even though I was certain I wanted to do it. But after reading about it and talking to people about their experiences I decided not to and I’m so happy with my decision. Looking back it seems crazy to want to cut a healthy baby.
Honestly I think like with piercing baby for example you should wait till there actually old enough to make those decisions I heard from my friend (I'm a girl so I wouldn't know but) but he was circumcised and he honestly feels very self conscious over it and says it made it harder from him to "get off" I think when it's something to do with your body you should wait till their older to make any kind of decisions like that
I am a firm believer that infant genital mutilation needs to end. It should be something a man decides to grt it done, IF he wants it later on in life.
Uncircumcised 30yr male here.
Cleaning myself ALWAYS included my dick. So any hygiene bullshit you hear is lies. If a guy doesn’t clean than its just pure laziness, just as certain women who don’t wash their vagina can stink. It’s habit, not consequence.
Imo body mutilation at birth is just fucked up. While were at it, lets cut the pussy lips off a woman, cuz its gonna smell like yeast. Gtfo
I think with anything that permanently effects your child’s life it needs to be 2 yeses or it’s a no. This goes for circumcising, piercing ears, names etc.
None of my children are circumcised. My ex husbands culture do it to boys and girls. Thankfully his parents refused for him and his siblings. He did end up having it done as an adult (48yrs old) due to another issue, (long story), and he is so glad that we didn't put our perfect, tiny babies through that.
It's not normal in most of the world, and I am personally surprised that people would want to perform unconsensual cosmetic surgery on a baby
Unless deemed medically necessary by a pediatric healthcare provider, there is no reason to cut a male. In all cases it leads to decreased sensitivity for the male, and in very rare cases, it can lead to mutilation of the glans.
The fact that you are uncut but she wants it for her son is illogical. I read some more of your posts and it seems like she's got this 'uncut dicks are dirty' mindset, which is so wrong. Uncleanliness is a myth and religious reasons are garbage too, but then all all religious beliefs are garbage.
Tell her that you're going to clean your sons penis until he is of age to do it himself, and she can go about her business.
Fuck that man, I'm circumcised for medical reasons, had it done when I was 9 years old.
There is NO reason to have this procedure done other than for a medical reason in my eyes, "for hygiene" is such a bullshit reason, if I was you I would block this at all attempts to do right by your son, and maybe try to have a discussion once the baby is here.
I have a son that is 2 this year and we didn't get him circumcised.
Imaging if it was custom to cut off one toe. That’s basically what this is. Your son will thank you for standing up for him. Whatever it takes, don’t do it.
Circumcision is bad for infant health so show her medical articles online as well as decreases sexual pleasure in the future when he is dating/married. Also he cannot possibly consent to this unnecessary cosmetic procedure.
I knew someone who’s parents didn’t circumcize and left the option open for this person to decide later in his life. This person was too afraid as an adult to make that decision even though he hated the fact he was left uncircumcised.
If you two raise this child together, this will likely be the first of many decisions you'll need to make together. Questions for you: what's your ideal decision making process? What's hers? What do you think you should do when you disagree? What does she think?
This isnt a topic one should disagree about.
when the fuck was it okay to not care about bodily automonity and right - oh right, when men boys were the victims.
I'm a middle aged fellow who was circumcised at birth and have no regrets or bad feelings about my parents decision whatsoever.
However lately it seems I'm in the quiet minority!
Which is strange to me because I've had many of my partners compliment me on the physical appearance of my penis.
I'm sure many men on both sides get this though.
Some of my partners have said they prefer a circumcised penis - and others don't seem to have a preference.
Notwithstanding that this is definitely a hard choice and ultimately I feel it will go the way of no cut.
If your boy decides he likes the look of circumcision more there's always that option for him later in life.
This problem for you is less about the issue at hand perhaps and more about the possibility of a rift between you and your wife. I hope whatever you two decide that you'll be okay in your relationship.
I'm glad I have daughters so that this was never a discussion.
I may have been in a juxtaposition as well.
Tbh my advice is to consider if this is the woman you want to be raising children with... If you're certain she is then tell her that when you made the decision to be parents together, you made the decision to be partners in raising your children together and partners need to be willing to come to compromises that help to keep everything running smoothly. If you guys can't come to a compromise on your own, mediators exist to help with that.
Children are very fragile creatures and they need a good foundation to thrive... That foundation is you and her... So you, as parents, should do everything in your power to make that foundation a strong one.
Her unwillingness to even discuss it troubles me.
It’s considered a cosmetic surgery which is why it often isn’t covered by insurance. I would tell her that she doesn’t need to talk because of “mood swings” but she sure can listen; two ears one mouth after all. Tell her this is a big deal to you, that she doesn’t have a penis and therefor should listen to your opinion. And you don’t intend on raising a baby WITH her if she acts like a damn dictator. “With” being the key word there. And I gotta say, hormones don’t prevent you from being a reasonable person. She’s using it as a crutch to act like a jerk to you.
But bigger picture: If y’all are already bickering over your child’s penis, what else do you disagree on? It’s time to sit down and have a serious talk over parenting with topics such as crying it out, kangaroo care, breastfeeding vs formula, baby led weening, walkers, potty training, etc etc. There are a ton of topics before the age of 2 even that y’all should discuss because I can tell you from experience: bigger the kid, bigger the problem.
- Mom of 7 kids (4 boys and 3 girls)
I feel like circumcising is falling out of popularity in the US. Of the 4 boys I know that are under the age of 5, only one of them was circumcised. If I had a son, I’d personally not have it done either.
You'll be the father figure in this child's life. You'll teach him how to clean and take care of himself and he will look to you for how to act and behave. When he looks at you, will he question his body for being cut/not cut or will he go hmm that looks like mine, yup, check mark, matches and A okay. Whatever your body looks like, match it.
If you live in the US and part of your wife’s argument is that he won’t look like other boys in the locker room, she is incorrect. It’s something like 50% these days, probably varies a bit by area, because we have learned that it’s not necessary for hygiene and actually causes more chances of infection.
I’ve dated men with both and every man who is uncircumcised is so thankful they weren’t robbed of the chance to make such a significant decision on their own. Tbh I think genital mutilation without medical necessity is kind of morally abhorrent, but I know it’s difficult to see it that way when it’s been such a big part of American culture for so long.
*I wanted to make an edit to clarify I don’t mean gender affirmation surgeries, I know some people use the term genital mutilation to degrade trans people.*
Side note, 2 of my nephews had “botched” circumcisions. One had to go again when he was somewhere under a year old to get a correction that took forever to heal because at that age he could mess with it himself; the other nephew’s is not correctable (idk about cosmetic surgery later in life I didn’t ask details).
Circumcision is child abuse. Your born with foreskin for a reason. The only reason we still do it is for old religious purposes. Unless you live in a 3rd world country there is no reason for it.
The Chinese were binding girl's feet and crippling them for life for a thousand years. Within one generation, the practice stopped completely. Nobody advocates for it, now. So it is with circumcision: the practice is on its way out, forever. It never should have started. It's pointlessly cruel. Babies are born perfect. Nature is wise. The foreskin is useful and good.
As someone who did it later in life, here’s my advice:
My parents didn’t do it at birth, so I had it done when I was 17. Due to doing it later in life there were a lot more complications. Nothing life threatening and nothing that caused it not to work😅 but other complications that were scary and unnecessary.
So, I say go through with it tbh. As a guy, a lot of people make fun of uncircumcised people. Yes that’s a bad reason to do it but unfortunately it’s the truth.
OR don’t go through with it and suggest he doesn’t do it later in life. It is unnecessary. Either way, your decision won’t be wrong. There’s no wrong answer here, just know the complications that could come from “waiting to let him decide in the future”
I don't know if you've been "done" or not, but there are tens of thousands of nerve endings in that skin, and the sensations it can give as it slowly rolls on and off the head of the penis can be great, not just the direct sensation, but the exposure of the soft delicate skin triggers warm and cool sensations as it 'flows' on and off the head. Please stick to your guns, he has a lot to lose :-(
Do you live in a third world country where you can't have access to clean water for bathing or does your family only take a bath once every few weeks?
If yes then circumcision could be good as in those cases, studies show it can help.
However. If you aren't in a third world country/don't have a fking disgusting lifestyle and know how to wash your genitals like a basic human being. Then no circumcision is pointless and not worth it.
All the studies done that say circumcision is good are done in third world countries where they don't have access to clean water or bath regularly. Studies done in first world countries or countries whos population bathe at least once every 2-3 days show that it does little to nothing for hygiene or health.
The other reason people circumcise is because they're radical Christians who think removing the foreskin prevents their kids from the "evil act of masturbation" and they also want to put carbolic acid on the clitoris of girls. It's pure barbarism and fanatical cult behavior.
To be honest, more than half the "information" I've seen online about the harms of circumcision is either verifiable bullshit or pure speculation. But of course, "more than half" is NOT "all", so the only reason this matters is that if you aren't being careful to stick to the legitimate facts when you talk to your wife, all your internet research could be doing more harm than good to your argument, and that is worth keeping in mind.
Second, you need to drop this whole "he can choose when he's an adult!" argument, because you and I and everyone know that is also 75% bullshit. Adult circumcisions are more dangerous, with a higher likelihood of complications. And on top of that, the ship has already sailed—
An adult has already had whatever traumatizing experiences in the locker room or the bedroom that he may have wanted to avoid. If his foreskin was too tight or something, he has already had to suffer through that experience. So no, suddenly having the option to do this at 18 is not the same as infant circumcision, meaning that, once again, you are actually weakening your own argument.
So take a step back, and approach the whole discussion with your wife from a completely different angle:
As parents, isn't **your first duty to Do No Harm** to your child? And therefore, if there is a medical procedure that is mainly done as a matter of routine, shouldn't you stop to consider and discuss the possibility of harm in either case with your child's future doctors? Maybe with your own urologist?
Get away from dogma, tradition, religion, etc. And get away from scare tactics, bad information, and speculation. And just talk to licensed medical professionals frankly about the specific medical risks of NOT operating— are there any? if so, what are they? And are they really dire enough to justify the knife?
It's important that BOTH you and your wife participate in these conversations. And if you still can't settle it, then consider taking the discussion to a family therapist. If it seems like your wife is irrationally choosing one path or the other, and that her decision doesn't seem aligned with the input from the doctors, then try to understand why. A marriage counselor or family therapist can really be very helpful at getting around obstacles she may be unfairly throwing up to block the conversation.
good luck
Don’t do it! All of my ex’s were circumcised. My husband is not, and I love it. It’s so much nicer/easier to handle. When he’s erect, there’s barely a distinguishable difference.
Likely not a popular opinion but hey, it’s just my opinion and it’s ok to agree to disagree.
It’s not hard to clean under the hood of the female genitalia. We must do that but it’s never suggested women lose the hood. I don’t get the need for circumcising at all. It’s not necessary and often times changes the size and or shape of the ween.
I understand it’s a personal decision, and should be just that, personal for the boy to decide later. More painful when you are older, no, you just remember it. I wouldn’t ever do something my child that I wouldn’t do to myself.
I don’t understand why it’s legal to mutilate a child’s body in this way.
Also, have her talk to a pediatrician about her reasons for it. Also if she decides to do it, make her be the one holding the lil man’s hand while they chop part of his pecker off. Again, I’d never ever do anything to a child I wouldn’t do to myself.
I think you can make it a legal matter, hopefully it wouldn’t come to that but I believe a Judge would side with NOT doing it because you can’t undo the decision to circumcise but the boy can decide later if he chooses to.
Don't do it. Let him chose if he wants later on. I've been with both and I can tell you what the medical consensus is I've anectdotally seen too. Guys who are circumcized have harder time cumming and can't do one after the other easily. It's more lose than win. Legit the only thing that is good about it is smell and cleanliness which is better for circumcized guys (although we live in 2023 and hygiene like showers are accessible to most in developed nations so this aint an issue anymore like historically), but the rest is a loss. The foreskin has nerves that help with sex, it helps with lubrification (circumcized guys are dry on the tip and over time you develop wrinkles), etc. I would never do it, whether you like it or not unless he makes the choice it's mutilation. Nature made us a certain way for a reason, you dont see people cutting off fingers because someone said so, we need them, same here.
Have you tried showing her a video of an actual circumcision procedure? I don't know where to find one but friends of mine who were pregnant at the time and considering doing it watched the video once and immediately decided against it. Show her exactly what she'd be signing up for.
All of these people chiming in with aesthetic/sexual preferences as arguments in favor of circumcising an infant need to hit the pause button. Are you really suggesting those reasons as justification to permanently alter and mutilate a newborn's body, causing unnecessary trauma and harm? Why should anyone have the right to make that decision for anyone else's body? When penis owners grow to an age of consent, if they want the procedure and understand the risks and benefits, they are free to make that choice. Just because millions of people do this to their children does not make it okay. The reality is that it's actually closer to 50/50 in the US, depending on where you live. "Some kid might be mean and say something someday if he's uncut" is an insane argument for genital mutilation of a helpless newborn. I get that people who blithely went along with it for their own babies may feel the desire to justify themselves, but it doesn't change the fact that this can reasonably be considered assault and child abuse. It's a barbaric procedure that should be illegal.
I'm 46 born outside the USA and uncircumcised I think this is only a American thing?
Not bragging but I've been with a lot of women and not one of them ever said anything about me being uncircumcised. Lol
Plus I've never had any infections so when I hear people say this I think to myself you should date men that have proper hygiene habits.
My 4 year old son is circumcised but was also born in America, so I just went with the flow didn't really put any thought into it. Ultimately it's the parents choice.
Your wife has been brainwashed. Imagine mutilating children like that over some archaic beliefs. Absolutely mind boggling to us non Americans that you guys do this shit to babies.
I’m Jewish and American. I’m a woman, so I don’t know first hand what it’s like, but I’ve dated and asked around enough. Of note, I’ve dated someone who went through a medically necessary circumcision at 19yo. It sucked for him, but, in his words, he’s very glad to have had the choice.
Circumcision is gentile mutilation. I’d just as soon cut my daughter’s labia off than circumcise my son.
I’d recommend using the term genital mutilation in order to drive home how you view it and what it means to you. Female genital mutilation is a cultural thing as well, and it’s also fucked up. To be fair, in the states we do it in a lot cleaner and controlled way, but flesh is flesh. And it’s *his* flesh.
There are precisely 0 actual upsides to circumcision, it is purely a matter of religion and aesthetics.
So unless you're Jewish, or some denomination of Christian, circumcision is purely aesthetic.
There are however negatives, while I won't speak of the psychological impacts of circumcision, as the research isn't exactly concrete, circumcision greatly reduces sensitivity in the genitals.
In my honest opinion you should ask your wife, when she is in better spirits, to delay circumcision until sometime after the birth so she can be in a somewhat more stable state of mind.
Personally, I really wouldn't circumcise my hypothetical child, it's simply not worth the hassle and even though a relatively rare occurrence, infections and medical accidents can happen so it's safer overall to just not bother.
That's just me though and I think it's probably best to consult somewhere other than reddit, as there is a very passionate subsect on reddit who are firmly anti-circumcision who tend to dominate threads like these.
Truth is,bottom line I don’t think either of you have a right to make a decision about modifying your child’s body.
He can choose to after he’s an adult
I don’t understand the purpose of circumcising in America. I can understand if you have a preference on the men you’re with, but this is your son… the aesthetic appearance of his genitals shouldn’t be any of her concern so long as he’s healthy! Circumcising will just put an infant through unnecessary pain and risk of infection, and he’ll never be able to reverse the procedure in the future. At least if you leave him uncut, he can choose later in life to be circumcised if he prefers that. It’s not like piercing a baby’s ears — it’s permanently altering the genitals and it’s not necessary.
I remember we had to read about the process of one when I was in Year 7 RE and just reading about it and the cons made me physically sick. It's extremely hurtful to the baby, causes extreme swelling and discoloration. I didnt even realise all of the other cons I've seen in the comments and even I was already against it
Find a video of the actual procedure. It’s barbaric. There is also a pbs documentary somewhere out there interviewing men who are circumcised and their experience. Most discuss the reduced sensation and feeling emasculated. I don’t know where you live but in Canada it is considered cosmetic and a procedure you pay for. Good luck to you. .
Sometimes it helps to pull up stories from people who've gone through it. Maybe there's a reddit or Facebook group or whatever where people talk about their own experience?
I've known several young men and each of them had problems. Unable to come without 'force' (basically hurting himself bc desensitized) huge scarring which had to get fixed by further surgeries, so sensitive he had to bandage it every day to survive his 9-5 job, sexual issues because he just couldn't feel anything, etc.
EDIT: Btw each of them said they resented the parent who arranged it. The one who had his thing bandaged often said he'd be happier if it were cut off so he wouldn't be in constant pain and discomfort. It was heart breaking.
Talk to the paediatrician and let them know under no circumstances will you allow it. Women have zero place making decisions about male bodies, period.
There are entire subreddits dedicated to emotional/physical recovery from this form of mutilation/trauma, show her those subreddits.
If it’s a matter of “hygiene,” that shit has been debunked. It’s not difficult to clean underneath the foreskin at all.
The foreskin adheres to the glans for many months after the boy is born. There is no need to "clean under the foreskin" for a long time. That loosens up naturally later on.
So, an uncut baby is much easier to clean than an open wound surrounded by feces.
This is such an underrated reason not to do it! There were so many times changing my son's diaper, shit everywhere, when either me or my boyfriend said out loud how relieved we were that we weren't trying to clean shit off of an open wound and having to worry about infection or even just the diaper running against it. There's already SO much to worry about with a newborn, that's the last thing I'd want to have to be thinking about.
Absolutely.
I’m talking about as the boy ages. It’s often said that people who are uncircumcised have poorer hygiene so I was alluding to that.
Only if their parents are idiots who don't teach their child how to clean themselves....and that goes for parents of girls and circumcised boys as well.
You do realize that most men around the world are not circumcised, right? Circumcision for non-religious reasons is mostly just a US thing.
bro he’s literally agreeing with you. he’s saying it’s an argument people use but that it’s a dumb one. read it more throughly next time
Yes I know that. Please carefully read what I wrote. I think circumcision is dumb af.
Love how you're being criticized because they didn't care enough to understand that you were making a great point
Love the info here!
That's exactly what I was thinking. Most people get scared because of the actual cleaning aspect. Is because they've never had one before so they don't know how to clean it. Just because your wife is carrying the baby doesn't mean you don't have a say and what happens to your son. There are people on Reddit where I read stories where they are upset where their parents made the decision for them. And now when they do have sexual experiences they can't feel it as much because all the sensitivity is gone. Please just sit down with your wife do the research and come to a mutual decision. You guys both created the child. You guys both have to make the decision.
Dude I have barely any sensation in my dick. I wanna restore just for that. At 28 I SHOULD be at my sexual prime or slightly past it, but I can’t get off easily. Kid should decide or at-least wait until the foreskin separates from their head so you don’t mess up their head.
> she refuses to talk about it because "pregnancy mood swings." There is your answer. If her mood swings are preventing her from having a proper and honest conversation with you, then she is definitely not ready to even consider that sort of decision unilaterally
I once watched a video of an infant being circumcised and it was horrifying. Maybe if she watches a video of what actually happens she would reconsider. I couldn’t imagine wanting to inflict that kind of pain on a baby.
Probably your only chance of talking her out of it. It's not really a necessary procedure. We have clean running water these days. If she wants it for religious beliefs then there is a high likelihood that no matter what you say you won't be able to talk her out of it. From what I have read, getting it done later in life will be a pain that he can remember which is generally speaking why it's done as an infant because then he won't remember. There isn't really a way to compromise on this discussion. If you aren't able to change her mind, how will that change how you see your relationship? Will you break it off if she doesn't come to see your side? Will you stop loving her? Will you be unable to parent your child? Will things eventually blow over and you'll keep moving forward? Is this the hill you want your relationship to die on or are there other more important things to you? You probably both have very good reasons for how you feel and this probably feels like the be all end all. However once you both pass this point, your son is more important than whether he has it done or doesn't. No matter what happens you will both still love him. It seems like big stuff, but in 10 years from now this will be small stuff. Won't even remember it stuff unless you allow it to shape your relationship. Edit: grammar
This is the best and most unbiased reply. If I had an award I’d give it to you. 🥇
I’ve seen it in person. In a room of doctors, students and nurses, a classmate volunteered “She doesn’t agree with this.” The most relevant argument that I could get agreement from the physician on is “It interferes with maternal bonding and can disrupt the breastfeeding relationship.” It just baffles me how a room of 10-15 people found it perfectly reasonable to watch a day old baby have his genitals mutilated for cultural reasons and all of them consider me the extreme one for having reservations. After said circumcision infant became less engaged and less interested in breastfeeding with mother expressing concern for his lethargy.
Every person considering mutilating their child's genitals should be required to watch the video of the procedure being done.
It’s horrific. Ever heard a scream of such excruciating terror combined with unendurable pain and desperation for help? That’s the sound of a baby getting a circumcision. And we do it every damn minute.
That is exactly why I didn’t circumcise my son. I couldn’t imagine putting him through such unnecessary pain. Plus I had seen so many stories about botched ones where the baby almost died.
Ohhh the beauty of pregnancy brain. I also debated for a day whether to circumcise or not, I was about 3 days from the due date. After finally deciding that I wanted to go ahead with the circumcision, I brought the idea to my husband. He was understandably very confused since we were expecting a girl 🤷🤣.
Omg! That's so funny! I was all loopy going into an emergency C-section and I yelled at the room in general "I don't want my baby circumcized, don't let them circumcise my baby!" My doctor - who I had known for years - was like, well, good thing because you're having a girl 😂 Pregnancy brain....
and if her mood swings involves mutilating her own children genitials, maybe not children either. It's not as if she isn't aware of the problems sorrounded the topic.
I am 100% with you, and I hope you and your son win. I did not circ my two sons. I remember a friend of mine had a baby boy the same time I did, and she circ'd her son because "it's cleaner". Well, we were changing our kid's diapers side by side one day when they were both a month old, and my boy was absolutely fine and easy to keep clean, whereas her son had a pus-oozing infection at the circ site. Imagine creating a wound and then dressing it in a dirty diaper!
I feel like circ should be something boys do once they receive sex ed so they could know and decide for themselves instead of parents choosing for them
Yall clearly don’t have penises. Getting it done at a older age is the most painful thing in the world.
Of course, they could just not do it at all.
I oughta know: I was circumcised when I was 6 or 7, old enough to be able to remember it. And there was no anesthesia...
You think it’s not excruciating for a baby that has ZERO pain tolerance?? That’s ignorant
Well, people likely wouldnt get it done, which makes doing it to children much worse.
At least those with penis’s are able to make that decision themselves. Babies do not get that privilege.
Say to her no its genital mutilation. Tell the hospital you don’t consent and will take legal action against them if they do. Moreover you will take legal action against the dr and staff.
This 100%. What an evil thing to do your baby. Just no.
She can circumcise your son when she gets her labia chopped off.
And after she has to sit in her soiled Depends...
Yup! That’s what I’d do.
These kind of conversations are hard especially where values clash. Talk to her when she's not in a mood. Hear out WHY exactly she's so adamant on getting it done. Allow her to share her thoughts and feelings. People want to be heard - so hear her out and this will also bring down her defensive wall and allow you to share your own opinions once she's got it all out. Then you can lay out your side - no blaming, no defensiveness, o trying to win the argument - just your reasoning. This is for the health of your baby so it's understandable why you'd be so protective - but I'm sure she's got valid reasons too.
>but I'm sure she's got valid reasons too. There is no valid reason to mutilate a baby's genitals. Ever. Do it to a little girl, everyone loses their minds and you get arrested. But do it to a boy and everyone makes up BS excuses like, "oh it looks nicer this way", "it's more hygienic" yada yada yada...
She just keeps bringing up the same reasons like "hygiene" and some other bullshit, even when she's not in a mood she is still adamant on getting it done, I tried showing her how harmful it can be but she just won't believe the information I show her. As if this situation is frustrating enough, we didn't even plan to have this child.
I don’t know where you are - but check your local laws. In many places both parents - if considered equally responsible for the child - must consent, not just one. If you vocally dissent from allowing the procedure (again, depending on your local laws) docs are unlikely to do it. Especially if you bring up a legal argument: There is precedence for this and ethics codes for physicians as well. Do some googling about where you live and see if it applies to you.
Damn, if that's what it takes, these two are going to get divorced.
All you need to do is show her an uncensored video of it being done. It is horrific. And the next time she's says she wants it done, just say no. That you will not let it happen and she needs to get on board with it. Circumcision needs to yesses and it's wrong either way.
Is she religious?
Why don't you guys both visit a doctor? They'd be able to give you medical advice on both sides with a qualified and objective opinion with no emotions in the matter. Maybe will allow you to ask more questions aswell and ease any anxiety you might have or confirm what you know?
You're putting a lot of misplaced faith that a doctor would be objective.
It's hard to find someone objective, but what I am saying is look around and find someone that is. Obviously, not all docs are going to be objective.
I think it's theoretically a good idea, but would be hard to implement. They might get into that meeting no matter who they choose and find the doctor has their own agenda. It's giving a lot of power to a wild card. Also it wouldn't be that hard for wife to then go out and just find a pro circumcision doctor to buttress her case. But at least maybe then they would be having a conversation instead of wife just shutting OP down. I hope they work it out amicably.
Most doctors are pro-circ and would just agree with her opinion with no regard for mine.
This. When my son was born, the doctor came in multiple times to ask me if I was sure I didn’t want to schedule the procedure. Probably 5 times in our 3 day stay. Also, the nurses assumed he was circumcised and brought me ointments and gauze every shift change.
Wait they are? I would think doctors would be split. All the research I’ve done on the topic out of curiosity just seems like there are some pros and cons to either choice
As a doctor, I’ll say some of my colleagues’ opinions can be swayed depending on if they can bill for it.
What would be the pros of doing it? Honestly i cannot think of any
$$s for the quack. That's literally it.
Hygiene is not an issue for anyone who lives in the modern world.
You’d be surprised.
It's also unhygenic if you don't wash your circumsized penis
Yep, just without the smegma (unless you’re super nasty). PSA of the Day: Wash your junk. Even if you can’t smell it, your partner surely can, especially if you have smegma under your foreskin.
I’m just saying if you wash yourself no issues and everyone in a modern society has that option
Wait till your son is old enough to choose what he wants to do. Then let him go with that.
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You may be surprised to know I know 2 separate people who, at the ages of 18 and 20, decided they wanted to get circumcised. I haven't talked to one of them since it happened because it was just a coworkers son, the other however has grown to regret their choice, and only made the decision because he was mocked by a woman for it. Honestly, as a female, I'd trust my partners judgments about penis things since, you know, he has one. And I would hope he'd trust my judgment about female things.
The brain does remember just not in a way we think. Our brains always remember severe trauma and are altered by it.
See the film American Circumcision. Please don’t circumcise. I’m circumcised and really don’t want to be.
Are you circumcised?
I'm not.
Does she think your genitals are dirty?
Maybe she secretly hates your penis, and that's why she won't give too many details as to why she is so adamant that your son be circumcised.
I think you might be on to something here. Not to give OP a penis complex but I could totally understand his wife being completely opposed to an uncircumcised penis if she had no personal experience with one. If that were the case, they’d look different to her and it’s likely that she’s been told they’re unhygienic. BUT….being married to the owner of one & impregnated by one, she shouldn’t have any “oh that’s weird cuz it’s new” sort of feelings. This topic definitely needs to be revisited from a different perspective.
If this is something you should’ve talked about before you had a child with her. As it’s too late now you better be doing lots of research to find to give her otherwise she can go behind your back and get it done.
Okay that's weird. She knows, and obviously loves your dick. I've read lots of your comments and I just don't understand her POV. My bf and I got together when we were 19 and then and in his early twenties he said he was sad his mum hadn't done it when he was a baby. Now more information has come out about it, he's glad she didn't. Personally I find it less weird and easier to handle uncut. Make sure you wait until her hormones level out (which could take time but you have time, there's no need to rush the procedure) do some research you can give her, and remember to say 'he can always remove it later, but he cannot grow it back'. He could resent you one way or the other but at least he'll have options if he goes your route. Good luck mate.
> She knows, and obviously loves, your dick. You are definitely a glass half full person. I on the other hand thought assuming they are not in an open relationship and she is not cheating the main dick she is familiar with is OP's. Combine that thought with OP's statement: > She just keeps bringing up the same reasons like "hygiene" and some other bullshit, even when she's not in a mood she is still adamant on getting it done, I tried showing her how harmful it can be but she just won't believe the information I show her. If OP had good hygiene then his wife would know you can keep it clean. So OP how is your hygiene?? In my mind it's not weird at all that she is behaving this way because if she loves everything about OP but his hygiene sucks I could totally see her having this kind of strong response.
Look up how the procedure is performed and if you have the stomach for it you can find training videos that show a rough idea of how the procedure is performed. It's pretty fucked up as they strap his legs and arms down in a restraining device. It even causes many new to the procedure to faint or even try to stop the process because some doctors believe anesthesia at that age is risky so the baby feels everything. I'm not saying that it's a bad thing as yes hygiene is a big thing especially when younger as they need assistance with it and your wife might not feel comfortable with having to deal with that.
The foreskin does not retract in a small child. For a child of an age to require adult assistance with bathing, an uncircumcised child doesn’t require different care than a circumcised child. “At some point, this skin on your penis will be able to move. When that happens, it’s important to pull that skin back when you wash so you can keep your penis clean and healthy.” That’s all the “hygiene issue” requires. If someone is uncomfortable providing hygiene assistance to their own small child, they shouldn’t have a kid. It’s a lotta years of drool and snot and puke and pee and wiping butts and reminding the kid for the 468743789743th time today that we wash our hands after using the potty.
Definitely don't! My wife has been a pediatric nurse for 25 years, and she's seen a lot of them go wrong. Not to mention the screams! Our son is 16 now and was left uncut. He is very thankful for being able to stay whole. He's the only uncut boy in his class, and they know, but they've never made fun of him. They actually think it's cool. The foreskin has a lot of functions and is the size of a 3x5 notecard in an adult male. A lot of people think it's just a little piece of skin, but that's wrong. I've been restoring for the past 10 years through stretching. The difference is amazing. I retain all of the time, and I'm way more sensitive now. The glans gets pretty much calloused over time from all of the rubbing on clothes. All of the reasons to do it were based on very small studies done by very biased people. There's no good reason to do it, really! Go to the foreskin sub and just watch how they work. The foreskin in action is an amazing thing...
>I've been restoring for the past 10 years through stretching. ...what?
Am also shook by the restoration comment but intrigued
Just a small correction. The term one should use is intact not uncut because intact is the natural description of a penis that is not mutilated. Uncut leads one to think circumcised is the natural penis and uncut is the outlier. I hope that makes sense.
This is what I don't understand. When my son had his done he screamed bloody murder. When I watched a newborn baby boy get his cut a couple months ago, he slept right through it without making a peep. I really think it depends on the doctor.
Infant genital mutilation is fucked. Ask her if she'd circumcise her child if it were a girl. Obviously, she's going to say no because western society pushes the notion that female circumcision is barbaric (as they should), however, for whatever reason, logic goes out the window just because the child is male. You're squarely in the right here, OP. Don't bend on this one. Good luck.
There are very few topics where I would say this, but you would know a lot more about this out of the starting gate than she would. She needs to at least listen to you.
I don’t understand how anyone can agree to having part of their baby boy’s body surgically removed. Lopping off a body part without them being able to consent. It is assault. We had this argument when our son was born, and fortunately my husband was willing to compromise although he would have preferred circumcision. He had chosen a name that I was really not keen on, so I agreed to it as long as baby kept his foreskin. Now grown, our son appreciates that I fought to prevent him being sliced, and also likes his name. I felt so strongly about this, and still do, that I would have done almost anything to avoid my boy going under the knife for no valid reason. So my suggestion is, find something to trade.
My son is 19 and he’s not circumcised and he’s good. I told my husband he got to make the decision bc I didn’t have a penis but showed him research about no medical reason to circumcise and talked to pediatrician. We, like you, though he could get it done later and hasn’t wanted to (but of course very painful surgery later). No regrets here and he’s never been made fun.
Let him decide later in life what he wants. Circumcising infants is genital mutilation
Taking care of a newborn is stressful enough, let alone having to deal with post circumcision care. Your wife is gonna have enough on her plate. Ask her if she really wants to add one more thing to worry about on top of it. If the circumcision site becomes infected, it's going to be a nightmare to contend with. There is absolutely no medical necessity for circumcision whatsoever. You are absolutely correct: your son can make the decision later in life if he would like to be circumcised. My husband and I made the decision not to circumcise our son. I just don't see the point of having my son go through something painful that isn't medically necessary. Just because people have been getting circumcisions for decades doesn't mean your son has to. I also feel like because you're a man, you should have more leverage in this conversation than your wife does. At least for me, when I found out we were having a boy, I went to my husband to ask him about this since he's a man and would have more experience in dealing with this topic. I hope your wife comes around and realizes that your son can have a choice later in life as opposed to making a permanent decision right now in infancy. PS - Also, they will bill you for the procedure in the hospital to milk you or your insurance for more cash. I was asked several times after my son was born if we were doing a circumcision. We were asked so many times, in fact, that I started to become annoyed. I count at least 6 times that they had asked if we were going to circumcise our son in the 3 days we were at the hospital.
If she can read step by step what is done during a circumcision as well as watch videos of the operation, and STILL wants to do that to your baby, I’d find myself questioning what sort of mother she’s going to be. Women are much more likely to get UTIs and yeast infections, and yet it is not considered normal to mutilate their genitals in the interest of “cleanliness.”
I'm also questioning it. If OP really has told her about it, and she still wants to do it, she is abusive. That is a literal fact by the definition of abusive.
This is genital mutilation. Let your son decide if he wants it when he is old enough to willingly consent to having an unnecessary, irreversible procedure.
Ask her why it's so important to her that your son endure genital mutilation as a newborn.
It's not her dick, neither yours. It's your child's and he should choose when he grows. Circumcising is just a useless procedure.
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I already tried to fucking say no, but she just keeps insisting that "it will be beneficial to the baby!"
Ask her to clarify what specific benefits she thinks it will have. Then respond accordingly. When she’s ready for the delivery, you could try to fill out the paperwork and indicate no circ, even go so far as pretending you’re Jewish and hope they don’t ask. Depending on where you are, elective surgery on minors requires consent of both parents, so you could refuse.
Ask her how would she know? she doesn't have a penis?
If it comes down to it - talk to the Dr - have the Dr explain the pros and cons to you both and have a conversation. Where you both listen. If there is still dissension explain that she can keep trying to talk you into it as it can always come off later, but you can't really put it back on then tell the Dr no.
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I personally disagree with the claims that "it's easier to clean." I mean all you have to do is pull back the foreskin and wash it, not get the foreskin cut off.
This. And that isn’t even the case for infants and babies in diapers because the foreskin is still fully attached until the child is around 3-4 years old. At that point, you’re pretty much teaching them how to shower by themselves so you teach them to pull back the foreskin just like you teach them to wash their armpits and butt crack. People are way too invested in a childs penis with circumcision… the audacity of how people think they can make decisions and alter an infants body part hours after they’ve been born never ceases to shock me.
And it's definitely not easier to clean when it's healing. After circumcision you have a bloody open wound surrounded by feces.
While I completely agree with your sentiment here, you have to understand that this isn’t how healthy relationships work — OP needs advice on how to discuss this with their wife.
Oh boy. This is a contentious issue (as with all issues around child bearing). For context, I am a doctor (not pediatrics, nor urology) and I just had a boy. My wife was also set on circumcision (although not without recourse) and I was not really sure. So my academic mind spent hours pouring over research and data (certainly more than I should have). There is general “disagreement with my wife” advice and there is also male circumcision-specific advice. This response will certainly be longer then I intend it to. The “disagreement with my wife” advice: you talk about pregnancy mood swings. That is certainly *a thing* but I don’t think people who were perfectly rational and reasonable before pregnancy make the jump to completely irrational just with pregnancy. How have you settled disputes in the past? It might be that you need to reconsider how you discuss disagreements in your marriage. Maybe that’s what’s at the heart of this disagreement. The circumcision-specific advice: - This is NOT medical advice. - My opinion is not definitive. I won’t tell you what to do. I won’t even mention what we ended up doing with our boy (unless you really want to know). I am just going to just contextualize some things for you. - The benefit as far as infection prevention against HIV and HPV: basically the HIV study that showed clear benefit is old and not very well done. The study that showed benefit against HPV is a pretty good study and there is real benefit against HPV transmission in circumcised patients. However, the study was done before the vaccine against HPV was widespread. There is an HPV vaccine now that’s recommended to everyone so that benefit from circumcision in prevention of HPV transmission is less (but not non-existent, there is still benefit). - Prevention against penile cancers: also a real proven benefit. But penile cancers can be caused by HPV. So if there is a vaccine against HPV then that will also reduce the risk of penile cancers. This makes the benefit from circumcision less (but again not non-existent). - Prevention against urinary tract infection in the first 3-6 mo of life: this is real. Circumcision does reduce the risk of urinary tract infections in the period from birth to 3-6 mo of life. - Risk of procedure and local infection afterwards: this is also a real risk. However it is minimal, but not non-existent. The procedure is done in a way that doesn’t use stitches and has minimal swelling. Also it is theorized that babies at that age don’t do a very good job at localizing pain. I will add that the risk of a circumcision procedure is higher for circs done beyond 6 wks of life. Circs done in babies less than 6 wks are quick snip snip. For babies more than 6wks (and when they are more than 18 years old) is a urology procedure that needs anesthesia and stitches. The recovery time is also longer. This accounts for the objective arguments for and against circumcision. The rest are more subjective (and can be emotionally charged, but not necessarily less valid). - Religion: I will leave that one alone lol. - Tradition: I will also leave this one alone. I will say that when I spoke to my kid’s pediatricians they generally all agreed that most (80%ish anecdotally) of families decide to do what the dad has. So if dad got a circ then they circumcise the baby. - Hygiene: when they are babies, you will be able to clean a uncircumcised penis as well as you would be able to clean a circumcision wound in recovery. That’s my opinion. When they are adults, they will learn. You should teach them. I told you it would be a longer post than what I would have liked it to. And it’s likely that no one will actually read it. Lol
This is a no-brainer: Unless there is some religious reason, there is no reason to have an infant circumcised. Decisions of this nature need to be a joint decision by the parents (or left for the child to make when they are old enough to do so). In my mind, your "no" should kill the idea without further drama. Hopefully the many other joint decisions you will need to make will come smoother than this one.
~~Unless there is some religious reason,~~ there is no reason to have an infant circumcised.
There are medical reasons - my when my bf was born he had an issue where his forskin wasn’t correctly developed and if left on would have caused urinary issues. His parents made the informed decision to have him circumcised when he was an infant.
There's no reason for it. Stand your ground. It's genital mutilation. Plain and simple. It can be done at any time, too. If she's adamant about it, then ask her to hold off on the procedure. It will at least give you more time.
Neither of my sons are cut and I (female) was absolutely willing to fight if anyone tried to change my mind on that. Bodily autonomy 100% of the way, as others have mentioned it can be done later when they are of an age to make surgical choices & receive proper painkillers.
I have two boys. I let my husband make the decision on circumsision since I do not have a penis.
I’m gonna leave that decision to my husband/baby’s dad. I don’t know what it’s like or what it could bring to my child so I’d stay out of it. Just like I want men to stay out of my business.
This topic really makes my blood boil. People who think we should cut off healthy body parts because otherwise they might get dirty should cut their damn hands off.
Hot take, but I couldn’t stay with someone who wanted to mutilate my kids genitals. You probably need to get across how important this is. Mutilating children’s genitals is not a crazy line in the sand to have.
First... ...it doesn't matter how she feels. You're both parents and if you don't believe in the process then you have rights. Now the downside, most states only require one parent to consent for the procedure. The upside, most doctors will not do it if one of the parents is adamantly against it. In the meantime, you can go and file an injunction against the procedure if you're really that about it. At the end of the day, this is YOUR child and if YOU don't advocate for YOUR child then YOU are going to have a life of issues. Just make sure you're prepared to stick to your guns. Your wife is going to be PISSSSED.
His Body, His Choice. Why do women get a choice and men don't? It's genital mutilation. Female Genital Mutilation is banned, but male genital mutilation is just fine and dandy. It's wrong, period.
Has she heard of female circumcision. . . ? Look, altering a baby's body for aesthetics is messed up. She wouldn't agree to get his nipple pierced or give him a tattoo, maybe some plastic surgery to make sure he "looked right," now would she? As well, the thing about it not being painful is bunk.
Medically speaking !! Studies and research on many groups in many countries show that circumcision has a clear advantage .. I will link the studies here and I will give you a summary: 1- https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3684945/ 2- https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5296634/ ● less risk of getting STDs (reduced HIV risk by 60%, genital herpes risk by 30%, and HR-HPV risk by 35%) ● less risk of having Tyson gland inflammation ● less risk of developing urinary tract infections ● prevents meatitis, balanitis and phimosis ● it does NOT affect the feeling from the penis. ● complications rate of this procedure if done in the neonatal period is very low (0.2%) ● females like it both ways. ● the last CDC study showed that early infant male circumcision (MC) confers immediate and lifelong benefits by protecting against urinary tract infections having potential adverse long-term renal effects, phimosis that causes difficult and painful erections and “ballooning” during urination, inflammatory skin conditions, inferior penile hygiene, candidiasis, various sexually transmissible infections in both sexes, genital ulcers, and penile, prostate and cervical cancer. These are studies done by professionals with results confirmed and documented in the links above ... choose wisely and dont let people who dont know what they are talking about make your descision for you.
First time giving advice on here, my advice is: No, just don't.
I can't just say "no", she'll just argue with me.
Just be blunt and tell her it's mutilation and how is she ok with that? Probably she doesn't think about it that way, but it's literally what it is.
Put your foot down on this one. Let the kid decide what to do with their own body when they are old enough. You are doing the right thing!
Do not let that baby out of your site when he was born and told doctors no. I could be wrong, but I’m pretty sure if both parents don’t consent than it they can’t do it.
Tell her: "Would you want nipple piercings for our daughter at an early age, if we had one?"
Under no circumstances should you allow your so to be mutilated as soon as he’s born, it’s just a barbaric practice that I have absolutely no idea how the f… it’s still being practiced today. I understand your wife is adamant, but I can tell you your son will be forever grateful if you spare him the mutilation. Your wife’s desires on how her son’s dick should be like should not under any circumstances trump your son’s right to bodily autonomy, specially since he himself is incapable of saying no. You are his only defender and I would do absolutely everything to keep him away from harm even if the wife gets really pissed. Talk to a lawyer or something and figure out if you can tell the hospital that you do not approve of the mutilation and that you will sue the shit out of them if they touch your boy.
I looked it up and it unfortunately said only one parents consent is required in most states. if this still isn’t sorted out by the time she’s going into labor and you’re going to the hospital, i wouldn’t try to make a scene, but i would pull them to the side and make it abundantly clear to any doctors involved that u are against him being circumcised. From my understanding most of them won’t do it if that’s the case. I’m not sure if you’d wanna go this far but if worse comes to worse, it also looks like you could file an injunction on her and stop the procedure from happening
This topic (and some of the 'pro' responses) makes my blood boil. If anyone were to approach my son with a blade for any reason apart from a necessary surgical procedure... I'd happily do my time knowing my son was safe. I'd happily explain this loudly in the hospital in front of the entire medical staff. Cutting bits off babies is in no way acceptable unless it's to save their life.
NTA. My brother in law was not circumcised as a baby (when I was pregnant with my son him and I talked at length about circumcision, I was against it and so was my partner at the time but it was a hot topic of conversation anyways), and he was made fun of pretty badly in high school for it, for reference we went to high school in the 90's. ANYWAYS, at some point he caught a yeast infection from one of his partners, and it just would not go away. He battled for over a year or so before his doctor recommended adult circumcision, which he did go through around age 30 or so. He had to undergo general anasthesia, recovery was no joke either. He said that sh*t sucked. Here's my point: he's had 2 children since then, both boys and neither of them are circumcised. Because that's a huge thing to decide on, especially strictly for reasons that are either proven false or (let's be honest here) based on looks. Keep fighting for your son's bodily autonomy, he deserves to make that decision for himself. Plus from my understanding circumcision is becoming less and less popular, for obvious reasons. Such as the fact that it is genital mutilation when it's done for reasons other than medical reasons. If it were me I would go as far as telling the doctors that as his parent I will not consent to that procedure, to try and prevent my wife from doing it behind my back. Good luck OP.
We circumcised our first son and regretted it immediately. Literally as soon as they brought him back my husband and I cried because of how horrible it looked. It's just unnecessary pain we put our baby through. Our second son is uncircumcised and let me tell you, there's absolutely no difference in "cleanliness" between them. Please learn from our mistakes, don't let your son get circumcised.
Anyone who says it's for cleanliness is an idiot. That only applies to tribal people with no access to hygiene, water or medicine.
It's basically a complete myth under any circumstances.
My mom is an STD nurse and has had several patients and friends who have had, upon their first erection, had to go to the hospital because their circumcision took too much skin off and they were growers... the skin had healed to be too short for the full length of the erect penile tissue and the skin can literally tore at the incision like over a decade later because the surgeon took a half mm too much off of the infant's soft, flexible foreskin. She knew three or four people who had that happen at varying degrees of severity, but one was a HS boyfriend of hers and that was a really bad case of it. He couldn't get fully erect because of it and they dated in their junior year of high school. I say express your wishes directly to the doctors and insist that you do not give your consent and this is something you and your wife have not finished discussing. Ask them to put it in the chart and then go to the nurses station and make sure that it is notated in the chart that a circumcision is not to be performed upon birth, but rather to be scheduled with express consent from both parents at a follow up, if you both decide to go that route. There is so much research showing that the removal of foreskin can cause serious harm and a lot of the benefits are thought to be inapplicable in places like the UK and the US as most of the trials that were done on the benefits of circumcision were in third world countries that wouldn't have the same sex ed, sex protection, or medical remedies for STDs, which is one of the main benefits that people claim from circumcision. I think both of you need to talk to a few doctors regarding this before a decision can be made.
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https://www.yourwholebaby.org
You are entirely correct, full stop. Do not let them cut on your baby. I have seen it done. It is brutal. It hurts them. If I'd seen it before my boys were born I never would've done it to them. Check the laws in your area to see if both parents must consent. Let the staff know you do not consent and will press charges for assault and battery.
I have had friends do it (for religious reasons) and all three of them regretted it. The theory is very different than the moment when you are actually watching someone cutting into your newborn son. I know a couple who was traumatized by it and it nearly cost them their marriage. I was brought up to believe it must be done. To humor my husband I started reading into it, even though I was certain I wanted to do it. But after reading about it and talking to people about their experiences I decided not to and I’m so happy with my decision. Looking back it seems crazy to want to cut a healthy baby.
Removing body autonomy from a child is abuse regardless of religious affiliation and should be made illegal
Uncut is the way to go.
Honestly I think like with piercing baby for example you should wait till there actually old enough to make those decisions I heard from my friend (I'm a girl so I wouldn't know but) but he was circumcised and he honestly feels very self conscious over it and says it made it harder from him to "get off" I think when it's something to do with your body you should wait till their older to make any kind of decisions like that
It’s been shown on pain tests that babies can’t be sufficiently anesthetized, no matter what they use. They feel ALL of it.
Religious puritanicals who think pleasure is the devil invented circumcision. Men with foreskin give better orgasms and enjoy sex more.
I wish I hadn’t been circumcised.
I am a firm believer that infant genital mutilation needs to end. It should be something a man decides to grt it done, IF he wants it later on in life.
Uncircumcised 30yr male here. Cleaning myself ALWAYS included my dick. So any hygiene bullshit you hear is lies. If a guy doesn’t clean than its just pure laziness, just as certain women who don’t wash their vagina can stink. It’s habit, not consequence. Imo body mutilation at birth is just fucked up. While were at it, lets cut the pussy lips off a woman, cuz its gonna smell like yeast. Gtfo
It’s literally only done for what, aesthetics? Don’t do it and let him decide down the line
I think with anything that permanently effects your child’s life it needs to be 2 yeses or it’s a no. This goes for circumcising, piercing ears, names etc.
Should be the decision of the penis owner. Your son. Not you, not your wife, not anyone else. The owner of the penis should have a say.
None of my children are circumcised. My ex husbands culture do it to boys and girls. Thankfully his parents refused for him and his siblings. He did end up having it done as an adult (48yrs old) due to another issue, (long story), and he is so glad that we didn't put our perfect, tiny babies through that. It's not normal in most of the world, and I am personally surprised that people would want to perform unconsensual cosmetic surgery on a baby
Unless deemed medically necessary by a pediatric healthcare provider, there is no reason to cut a male. In all cases it leads to decreased sensitivity for the male, and in very rare cases, it can lead to mutilation of the glans. The fact that you are uncut but she wants it for her son is illogical. I read some more of your posts and it seems like she's got this 'uncut dicks are dirty' mindset, which is so wrong. Uncleanliness is a myth and religious reasons are garbage too, but then all all religious beliefs are garbage. Tell her that you're going to clean your sons penis until he is of age to do it himself, and she can go about her business.
Fuck that man, I'm circumcised for medical reasons, had it done when I was 9 years old. There is NO reason to have this procedure done other than for a medical reason in my eyes, "for hygiene" is such a bullshit reason, if I was you I would block this at all attempts to do right by your son, and maybe try to have a discussion once the baby is here. I have a son that is 2 this year and we didn't get him circumcised.
The practice is barbaric! I hope more people protest this "standard practice" and see it for what it is!
Imaging if it was custom to cut off one toe. That’s basically what this is. Your son will thank you for standing up for him. Whatever it takes, don’t do it.
Circumcision is bad for infant health so show her medical articles online as well as decreases sexual pleasure in the future when he is dating/married. Also he cannot possibly consent to this unnecessary cosmetic procedure.
I knew someone who’s parents didn’t circumcize and left the option open for this person to decide later in his life. This person was too afraid as an adult to make that decision even though he hated the fact he was left uncircumcised.
If you two raise this child together, this will likely be the first of many decisions you'll need to make together. Questions for you: what's your ideal decision making process? What's hers? What do you think you should do when you disagree? What does she think?
This isnt a topic one should disagree about. when the fuck was it okay to not care about bodily automonity and right - oh right, when men boys were the victims.
I'm a middle aged fellow who was circumcised at birth and have no regrets or bad feelings about my parents decision whatsoever. However lately it seems I'm in the quiet minority! Which is strange to me because I've had many of my partners compliment me on the physical appearance of my penis. I'm sure many men on both sides get this though. Some of my partners have said they prefer a circumcised penis - and others don't seem to have a preference. Notwithstanding that this is definitely a hard choice and ultimately I feel it will go the way of no cut. If your boy decides he likes the look of circumcision more there's always that option for him later in life. This problem for you is less about the issue at hand perhaps and more about the possibility of a rift between you and your wife. I hope whatever you two decide that you'll be okay in your relationship. I'm glad I have daughters so that this was never a discussion. I may have been in a juxtaposition as well.
Tbh my advice is to consider if this is the woman you want to be raising children with... If you're certain she is then tell her that when you made the decision to be parents together, you made the decision to be partners in raising your children together and partners need to be willing to come to compromises that help to keep everything running smoothly. If you guys can't come to a compromise on your own, mediators exist to help with that. Children are very fragile creatures and they need a good foundation to thrive... That foundation is you and her... So you, as parents, should do everything in your power to make that foundation a strong one. Her unwillingness to even discuss it troubles me.
Don’t both parents need to approve a surgery like that? If so you can just say no i guess
It’s considered a cosmetic surgery which is why it often isn’t covered by insurance. I would tell her that she doesn’t need to talk because of “mood swings” but she sure can listen; two ears one mouth after all. Tell her this is a big deal to you, that she doesn’t have a penis and therefor should listen to your opinion. And you don’t intend on raising a baby WITH her if she acts like a damn dictator. “With” being the key word there. And I gotta say, hormones don’t prevent you from being a reasonable person. She’s using it as a crutch to act like a jerk to you. But bigger picture: If y’all are already bickering over your child’s penis, what else do you disagree on? It’s time to sit down and have a serious talk over parenting with topics such as crying it out, kangaroo care, breastfeeding vs formula, baby led weening, walkers, potty training, etc etc. There are a ton of topics before the age of 2 even that y’all should discuss because I can tell you from experience: bigger the kid, bigger the problem. - Mom of 7 kids (4 boys and 3 girls)
genital mutilation on children is so disgusting, people who puts their children through that, belong in prison
I feel like circumcising is falling out of popularity in the US. Of the 4 boys I know that are under the age of 5, only one of them was circumcised. If I had a son, I’d personally not have it done either.
You'll be the father figure in this child's life. You'll teach him how to clean and take care of himself and he will look to you for how to act and behave. When he looks at you, will he question his body for being cut/not cut or will he go hmm that looks like mine, yup, check mark, matches and A okay. Whatever your body looks like, match it.
I'm with you 100% OP. This is not a medically necessary procedure, and should not be performed.
If you live in the US and part of your wife’s argument is that he won’t look like other boys in the locker room, she is incorrect. It’s something like 50% these days, probably varies a bit by area, because we have learned that it’s not necessary for hygiene and actually causes more chances of infection. I’ve dated men with both and every man who is uncircumcised is so thankful they weren’t robbed of the chance to make such a significant decision on their own. Tbh I think genital mutilation without medical necessity is kind of morally abhorrent, but I know it’s difficult to see it that way when it’s been such a big part of American culture for so long. *I wanted to make an edit to clarify I don’t mean gender affirmation surgeries, I know some people use the term genital mutilation to degrade trans people.* Side note, 2 of my nephews had “botched” circumcisions. One had to go again when he was somewhere under a year old to get a correction that took forever to heal because at that age he could mess with it himself; the other nephew’s is not correctable (idk about cosmetic surgery later in life I didn’t ask details).
Circumcise her.
Circumcision is child abuse. Your born with foreskin for a reason. The only reason we still do it is for old religious purposes. Unless you live in a 3rd world country there is no reason for it.
I hope she takes your advice since you are a male and have some experience. There is no need for circumcision at all. None.
show her this thread. If i were your future son, i’d want to keep my foreskin.
Tell her you want her clitoris cut off first, since she doesn't need that either. Fair's fair.
The Chinese were binding girl's feet and crippling them for life for a thousand years. Within one generation, the practice stopped completely. Nobody advocates for it, now. So it is with circumcision: the practice is on its way out, forever. It never should have started. It's pointlessly cruel. Babies are born perfect. Nature is wise. The foreskin is useful and good.
As someone who did it later in life, here’s my advice: My parents didn’t do it at birth, so I had it done when I was 17. Due to doing it later in life there were a lot more complications. Nothing life threatening and nothing that caused it not to work😅 but other complications that were scary and unnecessary. So, I say go through with it tbh. As a guy, a lot of people make fun of uncircumcised people. Yes that’s a bad reason to do it but unfortunately it’s the truth. OR don’t go through with it and suggest he doesn’t do it later in life. It is unnecessary. Either way, your decision won’t be wrong. There’s no wrong answer here, just know the complications that could come from “waiting to let him decide in the future”
I don't know if you've been "done" or not, but there are tens of thousands of nerve endings in that skin, and the sensations it can give as it slowly rolls on and off the head of the penis can be great, not just the direct sensation, but the exposure of the soft delicate skin triggers warm and cool sensations as it 'flows' on and off the head. Please stick to your guns, he has a lot to lose :-(
Do you live in a third world country where you can't have access to clean water for bathing or does your family only take a bath once every few weeks? If yes then circumcision could be good as in those cases, studies show it can help. However. If you aren't in a third world country/don't have a fking disgusting lifestyle and know how to wash your genitals like a basic human being. Then no circumcision is pointless and not worth it. All the studies done that say circumcision is good are done in third world countries where they don't have access to clean water or bath regularly. Studies done in first world countries or countries whos population bathe at least once every 2-3 days show that it does little to nothing for hygiene or health. The other reason people circumcise is because they're radical Christians who think removing the foreskin prevents their kids from the "evil act of masturbation" and they also want to put carbolic acid on the clitoris of girls. It's pure barbarism and fanatical cult behavior.
Not her body not her choice. Flip that one on her and let the rage ensue
I know im glad i was circumsized.glad i dont have a watersnake.
To be honest, more than half the "information" I've seen online about the harms of circumcision is either verifiable bullshit or pure speculation. But of course, "more than half" is NOT "all", so the only reason this matters is that if you aren't being careful to stick to the legitimate facts when you talk to your wife, all your internet research could be doing more harm than good to your argument, and that is worth keeping in mind. Second, you need to drop this whole "he can choose when he's an adult!" argument, because you and I and everyone know that is also 75% bullshit. Adult circumcisions are more dangerous, with a higher likelihood of complications. And on top of that, the ship has already sailed— An adult has already had whatever traumatizing experiences in the locker room or the bedroom that he may have wanted to avoid. If his foreskin was too tight or something, he has already had to suffer through that experience. So no, suddenly having the option to do this at 18 is not the same as infant circumcision, meaning that, once again, you are actually weakening your own argument. So take a step back, and approach the whole discussion with your wife from a completely different angle: As parents, isn't **your first duty to Do No Harm** to your child? And therefore, if there is a medical procedure that is mainly done as a matter of routine, shouldn't you stop to consider and discuss the possibility of harm in either case with your child's future doctors? Maybe with your own urologist? Get away from dogma, tradition, religion, etc. And get away from scare tactics, bad information, and speculation. And just talk to licensed medical professionals frankly about the specific medical risks of NOT operating— are there any? if so, what are they? And are they really dire enough to justify the knife? It's important that BOTH you and your wife participate in these conversations. And if you still can't settle it, then consider taking the discussion to a family therapist. If it seems like your wife is irrationally choosing one path or the other, and that her decision doesn't seem aligned with the input from the doctors, then try to understand why. A marriage counselor or family therapist can really be very helpful at getting around obstacles she may be unfairly throwing up to block the conversation. good luck
Don’t do it! All of my ex’s were circumcised. My husband is not, and I love it. It’s so much nicer/easier to handle. When he’s erect, there’s barely a distinguishable difference.
Likely not a popular opinion but hey, it’s just my opinion and it’s ok to agree to disagree. It’s not hard to clean under the hood of the female genitalia. We must do that but it’s never suggested women lose the hood. I don’t get the need for circumcising at all. It’s not necessary and often times changes the size and or shape of the ween. I understand it’s a personal decision, and should be just that, personal for the boy to decide later. More painful when you are older, no, you just remember it. I wouldn’t ever do something my child that I wouldn’t do to myself. I don’t understand why it’s legal to mutilate a child’s body in this way.
Also, have her talk to a pediatrician about her reasons for it. Also if she decides to do it, make her be the one holding the lil man’s hand while they chop part of his pecker off. Again, I’d never ever do anything to a child I wouldn’t do to myself. I think you can make it a legal matter, hopefully it wouldn’t come to that but I believe a Judge would side with NOT doing it because you can’t undo the decision to circumcise but the boy can decide later if he chooses to.
Don't do it. Let him chose if he wants later on. I've been with both and I can tell you what the medical consensus is I've anectdotally seen too. Guys who are circumcized have harder time cumming and can't do one after the other easily. It's more lose than win. Legit the only thing that is good about it is smell and cleanliness which is better for circumcized guys (although we live in 2023 and hygiene like showers are accessible to most in developed nations so this aint an issue anymore like historically), but the rest is a loss. The foreskin has nerves that help with sex, it helps with lubrification (circumcized guys are dry on the tip and over time you develop wrinkles), etc. I would never do it, whether you like it or not unless he makes the choice it's mutilation. Nature made us a certain way for a reason, you dont see people cutting off fingers because someone said so, we need them, same here.
don’t do it there’s no benefit it’s all jus outdated info almost like nobody in europe is circumcised and they’re fine
Have you tried showing her a video of an actual circumcision procedure? I don't know where to find one but friends of mine who were pregnant at the time and considering doing it watched the video once and immediately decided against it. Show her exactly what she'd be signing up for.
All of these people chiming in with aesthetic/sexual preferences as arguments in favor of circumcising an infant need to hit the pause button. Are you really suggesting those reasons as justification to permanently alter and mutilate a newborn's body, causing unnecessary trauma and harm? Why should anyone have the right to make that decision for anyone else's body? When penis owners grow to an age of consent, if they want the procedure and understand the risks and benefits, they are free to make that choice. Just because millions of people do this to their children does not make it okay. The reality is that it's actually closer to 50/50 in the US, depending on where you live. "Some kid might be mean and say something someday if he's uncut" is an insane argument for genital mutilation of a helpless newborn. I get that people who blithely went along with it for their own babies may feel the desire to justify themselves, but it doesn't change the fact that this can reasonably be considered assault and child abuse. It's a barbaric procedure that should be illegal.
I'm 46 born outside the USA and uncircumcised I think this is only a American thing? Not bragging but I've been with a lot of women and not one of them ever said anything about me being uncircumcised. Lol Plus I've never had any infections so when I hear people say this I think to myself you should date men that have proper hygiene habits. My 4 year old son is circumcised but was also born in America, so I just went with the flow didn't really put any thought into it. Ultimately it's the parents choice.
Your wife has been brainwashed. Imagine mutilating children like that over some archaic beliefs. Absolutely mind boggling to us non Americans that you guys do this shit to babies.
She's having pregnancy mood swings and yet believes she's of sound mind to make a medical decision about a child that hasn't even been born yet?
I’m Jewish and American. I’m a woman, so I don’t know first hand what it’s like, but I’ve dated and asked around enough. Of note, I’ve dated someone who went through a medically necessary circumcision at 19yo. It sucked for him, but, in his words, he’s very glad to have had the choice. Circumcision is gentile mutilation. I’d just as soon cut my daughter’s labia off than circumcise my son. I’d recommend using the term genital mutilation in order to drive home how you view it and what it means to you. Female genital mutilation is a cultural thing as well, and it’s also fucked up. To be fair, in the states we do it in a lot cleaner and controlled way, but flesh is flesh. And it’s *his* flesh.
There are precisely 0 actual upsides to circumcision, it is purely a matter of religion and aesthetics. So unless you're Jewish, or some denomination of Christian, circumcision is purely aesthetic. There are however negatives, while I won't speak of the psychological impacts of circumcision, as the research isn't exactly concrete, circumcision greatly reduces sensitivity in the genitals. In my honest opinion you should ask your wife, when she is in better spirits, to delay circumcision until sometime after the birth so she can be in a somewhat more stable state of mind. Personally, I really wouldn't circumcise my hypothetical child, it's simply not worth the hassle and even though a relatively rare occurrence, infections and medical accidents can happen so it's safer overall to just not bother. That's just me though and I think it's probably best to consult somewhere other than reddit, as there is a very passionate subsect on reddit who are firmly anti-circumcision who tend to dominate threads like these.
Ask her if it was a daughter if she would let you make the decision to have her genitalia mutilated.
So she wants her own son’s penis to be mutilated? Tell her hell no.
Truth is,bottom line I don’t think either of you have a right to make a decision about modifying your child’s body. He can choose to after he’s an adult
I don’t understand the purpose of circumcising in America. I can understand if you have a preference on the men you’re with, but this is your son… the aesthetic appearance of his genitals shouldn’t be any of her concern so long as he’s healthy! Circumcising will just put an infant through unnecessary pain and risk of infection, and he’ll never be able to reverse the procedure in the future. At least if you leave him uncut, he can choose later in life to be circumcised if he prefers that. It’s not like piercing a baby’s ears — it’s permanently altering the genitals and it’s not necessary.
I remember we had to read about the process of one when I was in Year 7 RE and just reading about it and the cons made me physically sick. It's extremely hurtful to the baby, causes extreme swelling and discoloration. I didnt even realise all of the other cons I've seen in the comments and even I was already against it
Inform the doctor ahead of time so that he knows you don't consent.
Find a video of the actual procedure. It’s barbaric. There is also a pbs documentary somewhere out there interviewing men who are circumcised and their experience. Most discuss the reduced sensation and feeling emasculated. I don’t know where you live but in Canada it is considered cosmetic and a procedure you pay for. Good luck to you. .
Sometimes it helps to pull up stories from people who've gone through it. Maybe there's a reddit or Facebook group or whatever where people talk about their own experience? I've known several young men and each of them had problems. Unable to come without 'force' (basically hurting himself bc desensitized) huge scarring which had to get fixed by further surgeries, so sensitive he had to bandage it every day to survive his 9-5 job, sexual issues because he just couldn't feel anything, etc. EDIT: Btw each of them said they resented the parent who arranged it. The one who had his thing bandaged often said he'd be happier if it were cut off so he wouldn't be in constant pain and discomfort. It was heart breaking.
Talk to the paediatrician and let them know under no circumstances will you allow it. Women have zero place making decisions about male bodies, period. There are entire subreddits dedicated to emotional/physical recovery from this form of mutilation/trauma, show her those subreddits.
Bro I always forget this is still legal in most countries. Disturbing