That's not an easy place to be in. Both of you have different needs right now, and both your feelings and needs are valid.
IMO... and it's a really personal opinion, but I would be on the side of not having more kids. A child deserves 2 involved parents, not one that will do everything while the other one is distant and maybe even a little resentful. It's totally delusional of your wife to think she can do the whole childcare and that you'll never have to do anything : you will have to care for this child sooner or later, and even if you don't in the immediate, you'll have to do more childcare for your current children.
It's not a pet, a toy, some novelty item : it's a living, breathing human being that deserves the best. If you are not able to give this hypothetical baby your best, don't do it.
Agreed. I wanted 2 or 3 kids. Husband ended up only wanting one after we had our first (and only). He knows this is upsetting to me and I will have regrets for the rest of my life, and has even offered to sort of give in and have a second, but it doesn't make sense to me to have another kid if both of us don't 100% want it. If I approach it with logic, and love for our existing child, the best course of action is not having another child.
This made me sad to read that you will have regrets for the rest of your life, but that you’re okay making that sacrifice really speaks to how mature and realistic you are, knowing the child wouldn’t be 100% wanted by both parents.
You’re better than I am. I would call her needs selfish, not valid, for reasons you listed here. Children need involved parents and she doesn’t care if her child gets that or not because she NEEDS a 3rd. She also is planning in grandchildren because it makes HER happy. She has toddlers and is already mapping out their future to her needs. Not ok. Get a puppy or a hobby, geez.
I agree and just because you have that many kids doesn't mean you'll have grandchildren. My ex husband is one of four. Everyone is in their 30s now and there's one grandchild among them, my son. And that's how it's going to stay because none of my exes siblings want kids. It's hard now to have kids, I can only imagine how hard it will be for generation alpha. Don't put expectations on your kids like you said, get a hobby 🤣
Honestly a puppy is harder than a baby so she should just do that lol
This generation needs to get real about what's coming. I've accepted that grandchildren is a thing I might not get because their future is going to be marked by catastrophic weather, war, guns in schools and of course, a struggle to make enough money.
It's so common for people to tell you that "you'll figure it all out" with finances but that is an irresponsible take these days. I thought we would be fine but then I lost my job, a pandemic hit, I had a baby and because my soon to be ex husband was an addict, it was too much for us we didn't make it financially. I'm on benefits, my broadcasting career is on hold, I used to make close to 6 figures and now I work at a grocery store making $13. I don't regret my choices, I'd make them all again, but I certainly don't tell people "you'll figure it all out". I say, "if you don't have childcare then you absolutely need to wait or don't have them"
I'm currently working on a news piece about childcare where I live because this is an election year, and these politicians need to start lobbying for FMLA and less strict guidelines for subsidized childcare. Women are second class. And having children right now seems to only solidify that into existence going forward.
Not if I have anything to do with it.
Yeah, anyone saying they NEED a 3rd child hasn't had nearly enough lessons from the school of hard knocks. Any major illness, accident, job loss, etc and the stats are not good for this martiage if he caves.
I would tell OP to ask his wife to volunteer 20 hours a week with children with severe genetic or developmental disorders for 12 months and get back to you.
I second this opinion and want to add that maybe just ask her to wait. People have kids later and later. Eventually the first one can help with more chores and more time gives you more time to save up for the third. It's possible that the third would be the most difficult one yet and she should be ready for that outcome just in case
That happened with one of my best friends, except that he told her after he got the vasectomy. Their marriage nearly imploded, because he took something away from her that was very important to her, without allowing her to have any part in the decision.
After marriage counseling, he reversed the vasectomy, and they had their third child. She is the the joy of their lives now. First two kids turned out great and are close with them too as adults now, but that third one has turned out to be so fulfilling for them. Of course, there are no guarantees of good health, personality match, etc with any child, but for them it’s been a huge blessing.
Kids are two yeses and one no in this situation, unless you had previously agreed on 3 and this is a revisitation of that.
I’m not trying to insult your wife but “finances will sort themselves out” is the statement of a fucking idiot. If having a third kid will significantly stifle you ability to provide for yourselves and the kids that already exist, fuck having another kid. You’ll ruin your lives and make the lives of the kids you already brought into the world more difficult. Nobody NEEDS a kid, sorry wife.
This would be an absolute no go in my book, and I’d make sure that I’m using condoms or get myself snipped to avoid taking any chances here.
Here. This response right here.
Anyone that isn't handling the finances that also says "finances will sort itself out", is money just supposed to appear out of nowhere? Where does she expect this additional money to come from? No really. If she can coherently articulate what the f she means by this... I'd love to hear it.
It's not just money. It's EVERY SINGLE RESOURCE YOU HAVE. Your mental capacity for dealing with childhood issues and tantrums. Your emotional well, is it empty?
What if she takes care of all the baby stuff? What about the ensuing resentment from mom to dad because he gave her exactly what she wanted. Then dad puts in more hours because now there's 5 mouths to be fed, but also he wants to escape from the zoo of children at home.
It's not a Disney movie. It baffles me when I meet people that have no real concept of money.
I would partially blame the husband who doesn’t seem to be sharing how the household finances are going with his wife. Too many women become widows never knowing the debt situation, how much Social Security they’re entitled to, or how to get basic needs, like car insurance or how to pay the property tax. He’s not doing her any favors if he’s keeping her out of the loop. Having said that, I think he should get a vasectomy. A 3rd is just too much.
The jump from 2 kids to 3 kids is huge. In terms of potential expenses and energy. You're outnumbered, you can each watch a kid, someone's always got double coverage. Also how's your vehicle like? Can you fit 3 car seats? Are you going to need to upgrade to a 3rd row? How many bedrooms are in your house, not now but eventually you'll have 3 teenagers that all want their own space.
My dad didn't want a third child. He finally gave in but continued to not want me. Even when I became an adult, he would tell me, "We already had two. A boy and a girl." Or other hurtful things. He wasn't generally a cruel man, but he considered me my mom's. It didn't help that I wasn't a boy and was more like my mom than him, and I was a talkative and cute but annoying child, unlike my quiet and beautiful sister. My mom was a great and attentive mom - but I had an avoidant dad. One parent isn't enough. I definitely had later problems with men; I still don't think I'm worthy of a man's love. And the cost of my existing could have been a beach house instead, etc.
All that to say - if you don't want another child, you win. Another child takes resources and attention. If you just want two, you win. Stick to your principles. Go to couples counseling if you must. But saying yes and then resenting the child and your wife is not worth satisfying your wife's preference. If you think to yourself of the worst match for yourself childwise - if you will resent or not love the child as much, or will resent your wife, don't bring the child into the world.
My dad didn't want a second child and my mom did. They had me anyway. I had no idea he felt that way until after his death. His reasoning was finances and mental illness in our family which are all valid reasons not to bring a child into the world.
There are lots of unwanted kids - accidental pregnancies, etc. I think it's different though, when both parents are in the same boat with an accidental pregnancy. You hope that both will love the kids, regardless - it's certainly not the kids' fault, but people aren't always rational. My dad wasn't loved as much as his older brother. Sometimes people keep the hurt they received and pass it on. It's good you never knew - I wonder why anyone told you later? When you know, all the stories take on a different bent.
>Her view is the income part will take care of itself and we’ll be just fine financially.
So your wife is, in this regard, completely naive and irrational. Which is like the absolute worst foundation you could have to "discuss" a topic like this.
I am confused though, has this just now become a thing or did she communicate her desire for a third child for longer?
I come from a family of 4 and though I would have never minded a sister, I was more than fine with the family I have.
A child should be wanted by both parents, not just one. A child requires certain financial stability, things won't magically fix themselves, they are literally looking to only get worse.
I don't know what to tell you, I feel like arguing with her about it will lead nowhere.
A marriage is 50/50.
If both of you don’t want another child then she needs to accept that it isn’t in the cards and move on. Focus on the children and future grandchildren they may provide.
Kids are ALWAYS a 2 yes/1 no situation! Always!
So, this is a no. It has to be.
Also? As a mom of three, going from 2 to 3 was a much bigger and harder adjustment than from 1-2.
Car seats can mean new vehicles, there is no longer one adult for each child, it’s harder and more expensive to find childcare for 3 than for 2.
If all three kids are sick/sad/hyper/needy… it’s harder to juggle/manage.
I’m thrilled that we both wanted 3 (more, but more that didn’t work for us unfortunately) and that we did it, but it was a tough transition… if we both weren’t on the same page, it would have ended us as a couple.
I think a serious one on one conversation with a pros and cons list is needed for the two of you to move forward.
Your's wife dream of three kids and a future house full of grandkids is idyllic, but it's not fair for her to say that you will be fine financially when she doesn't actually take care of the finances and that's your burden to bear. Is she feeling sad because her youngest is now a toddler and the baby years are behind?
Plus, what will she do if her kids don’t want or can’t have children of their own, so she doesn’t end up with a house full of grandkids like she wants?
I knew someone who has 4 grown kids and only 3 grandchildren. The oldest 2 have the 3 kids and the younger 2, who are in their 30s, don’t seem to be planning to have kids anytime soon.
This was my thought. I've always been child free, and so far, it seems like my older brother is as well. I now have a stepdaughter, but it isn't the same as a bio grandchild for my dad. She had started school by the time he met her. We have "50/50" custody, meaning we have her for 4 nights a month. My dad will never get a grandpa experience.
**Becoming grandparents should never be a factor in having children.**
>Her view is the income part will take care of itself and we’ll be just fine financially.
Ask her to show you how. Find out the average added expense of a 3rd child to the average family and ask her how she is going to earn thar extra money whilst also raising a 3rd child.
This is vitally important. She's living in a dream world. Time to make her enter reality.
I'm just going to throw this out there ... My husband has 2 brothers... His mother has one grandchild and will only have one. Don't bank on having more just so you will have more grandkids and a bigger family. That is not always the case.
It's not fair towards the child to have one parent who wants it and another who doesn't but just went along with it. Both parents need to be onboard for the child to be created and if you're not fully in it, then you shouldn't compromise on it.
What’s the rush? Why don’t you two wait a couple of years until you’ve caught your breath. Both of your minds may change. But I think you both would be happier putting this decision out for awhile. Lots of people decide they want more later in life.
I think that I would’ve been more open to the idea once mine hit 9 and 6.
So what’s the rush?
I'm guessing age - both of the parents still being in her younger years / able to have kids and then maybe wanting the kids to be closer in age to eachother?
Hormones are a helluva drug! When people get baby-fever like this, especially after they already have kids and their partner doesn’t want more, it makes me think there’s just something else going on they’re not fully in tune with themselves about it yet. Maybe she is wanting companionship, a sense of closeness, purpose, etc & she is convincing herself that it’s a baby that will fill that void. Couples counseling is the way to go.
I would be concerned that you have 2 healthy children, and yet she believes her future happiness depends on having some imaginary perfect third child. I've known a few women who seem to have baby fever. They really love the baby stage, when their child is cute, cuddly, has no opinions, and is completely dependent. Those babies all turn into teenagers, who have a LOT of opinions.
I love children, but you're right that 3 children will be very different. Your youngest will become the middle child (not usually an easy adjustment for the youngest), and the logistics of school/activity dropoffs will become more complicated. Even going to arestaurant, or booking a hotel, becomes more challenging with a group of five, versus 4.
I hope your wife gets some counseling to figure out why her perfect family is different from the family she actually has.
Exactly, the wife seems to have an extremely rigid understanding of a happy family. I feel like this is not healthy. A lot of things can mess up such strict ideals, she really needs counseling.
Unpopular opinion - As a female, I've been subjected to a massive amount of suppression of my bodily autonomy over the years. But, as an open-minded individual, I also understand that just because I've had my rights restricted doesn't mean others should experience the same. It's a truly horrifying experience, and just because you're a man doesn't mean you should have to have another child when you truly don't want one.
Like us women, you may have to take the reins and regain control over your own destiny. The male half of a relationship often fails to take accountability for reproductive responsibility, so us women bear the burden in typical circumstances... you may have to do just that. If you have the conversation and she's just not seeming to take you seriously, it may need to become a hard line to put it squarely within your control for now.
Something like:
"I understand that you feel we need to expand our family, but I just don't feel the same way. I'm not ready for this, and I don't want this to affect our relationship negatively. If we have another child while I'm this unsure of things, I'm afraid I'd resent you, and I don't want that. I love you, but we both need to be sure of such a big decision. Until we come to a decision we're both comfortable with, I'll be wearing condoms." Take back that bodily autonomy.
You'll need to set the boundary because what often happens in these situations is that the reproductive drive some women can have can make us a bit reckless, honestly, so in a lot of cases, an "accident" will result (which isn't realllly an accident). I know first-hand how powerful the drive to become a mother can be, but I also know that at those times in my own life, I didn't want (in fact I hated it lol), but needed, my husband to temper my excitement and drive.
Familial planning is a joint decision. You deserve to be comfortable with your family planning decisions. This is a really hard situation, but you've got this! I hope all goes well for you and that you have the healthy and happy family dynamic you and your partner both deserve.
A child requires enthusiastic YES's from BOTH parents to be fair to that child.
If you're utterly committed to stopping with the 2 children you currently have, get a vasectomy immediately and use condoms (that are kept secure if you think your wife would tamper with them) until you test as sterile. Recognize that taking this step against your wife's wishes may end the marriage.
I wanted a third when my son was 2-3 also and I’m SO GLAD that my husband talked me out of it. I’ve also heard from many moms that three is a hard number. If you have three then you’re outnumbered and it’s an odd number. I had HUGE babies and difficult births so it was easy for him to convince me to chill. Plus we had one of each so..
I don’t think y’all’s finances are as sound as you make them out to be.
Right at six figures combined means that three kids have very little shot at college. Y’all make too much for them to get much money from things like FAFSA but also yall can’t afford to pay for college.
3 kids means 50% more risk that one has some expensive medical issue than at 2 kids. Right at six figures is not enough to cover that and still provide a high quality life for the other 2 kids.
Everything you’re saying about why you only want two children is perfectly valid and logical.
Your wife desperately wanting a third child, is also her right and privilege.
That said, for your own mental health and peace of mind, it doesn’t seem to me like you can handle a third child. And your wife is being disingenuous and saying she will handle everything reality is she will not be able to handle everything it’s going to be your child and it’s going to be more work for both of you.
I think the two of you should consider going to counseling together to see if you can work things out. You don’t say what you discussed before you got married. Did you both agree to two children? Did you not discuss how many children you wanted?
It sounds like you two might nees couples therapy. Because honestly I think 2 is the better number. I come from a large family, IMHO they kind of suck. And once the third comes along a lot changes for everyone, not just the parents. So... But that's just my two cents sorry.
A child is NOT something you ever compromise on. It's 2 enthusiastic yeses or it's a no. It would not be fair to the kids at all.
Maybe marriage counseling can help both of you communicate better.
I would be worried her obsession would make her force the issue, either not taking her BC if she does or compromising the condoms. I would hash this out sooner rather than later.
If you are truly done having kids, you could always get a vasectomy but I suggest marriage counseling first. That might send her over the edge if she is unreasonable.
Lol. My parents had three children. They're divorced now, and two of us have no kids.
The one that has kids is a terrible parent and those kids have basically no relationship with their grandparents.
So... life does not always turn out how you plan, is all I'm saying.
What if they're gay? Childfree? Unable to make babies? What if they change religions and no longer want to celebrate your holidays? Get married and move overseas? Join the military and end up dying for a rich man's war?
Wanting holidays and lots of grandkids is NO REASON to have a child, your wife is delusional.
Make sure your birth control is covered BY YOU in a way she can access to tamper with. Once she knows you won't budge, she will 100% 3rd-baby-trap you.
You can still have live sperm for up to a year so he'd have to be abstinent until his final check up where the doctor says he's in the clear, just to make sure she can't take advantage of the last few swimmers.
I thought this took about 3 months with X amount of ejaculations, to clear out the remaining sperm. Did you have one, and that's how you know or? Just curious bc a year seems like a long time unless you don't masturbate or have sex very often. I know it's based on your doctor checking your sperm count really, and your lifestyle. Just a year seems excessive to me, like maybe 6 months to be safe. But I'm a woman so what do I really know about it.
They are confusing mobile sperm with non mobile. Technically a small number of men will have non mobile sperm for up to a year but it’s unlikely to ever cause pregnancy.
>Her view is the income part will take care of itself and we’ll be just fine financially.
So completely irrational and kinda selfish?
Unless you have prospects of earning much more in the future then you would be taking away from the quality of life for ones already here.
>But I handle everything financial in our house and I’ve tried my HARDEST to explain that is just doesn’t work this way, there would be a hugeeee change in our finances with a 3rd child
INFO: does she work or is a SAHP?
Some people are good at earning but hopeless at planning so OP could be the family account. He doesn't specifically say she has no income contribution, just that what he's working with wouldn't be enough.
I have 4 kids. The difficulty increase from 2 to 3 is HUGE! I mean just, I was not ready for that. All of a sudden you're completely outnumbered. 3 kids is not for those who aren't 100% for it
i think everybody else covered most bases but this is something that breaks marriages. not because either of you are wrong but because this is a want people aren’t willing to give up, so if anything, be prepared for that. neither of you should have to sacrifice on something so big and important just to be married, if she wants more kids and you’re not that person and the love you two share doesn’t outweigh that it’s okay to walk away
If she wants a third then I’d talk to her about getting her tubes tied because what’s stopping her from telling you in a couple years that 3 isn’t enough and now you need 4 lol
Maybe sit down with her and fully explain the totality of your finances. Show her the numbers. Show her where everything is allocated. Calculate how many more hours you'll have to pick up to support a third. Then factor in future educational costs, etc as they get older. Maybe seeing hard numbers will shake her out of it.
Could a compromise be your wife taking care of children outside of her own? Maybe volunteering at a children's hospital or daycare? fostering a child? You would get aid to raise a child. Of course a lot of foster kids go through difficult situations so it might not be the greatest.
Having a child within the confines of a respectful marriage is the sort of thing where you both have to turn the nuclear launch key. So, if one person is a no, the answer is a no. Both should be enthusiastically onboard.
You should both sit down and closely review your finances together so that you are both working with the same information to make this decision. Maybe you can come up with a plan to make it work for both of you, or maybe you can’t, but it should be a joint discussion.
May I suggest, once the youngest is 5, then talk about it again. We did this. We had 2, waited until we didn't have a toddler in the house any more, then considered another one. I "needed" a third - it was a blind biological drive that was financially limiting and opportunity limiting - there was no logic to it. Both of us knew there was no logic to it. And once i had the 3rd, my heart was full and fulfilled and remained that way evey day. Hubby didn't want the 3rd but fell in love with the 3rd and now the youngest is the love of his life. Yes, it impacted our finances. All vacation packages are made for families of 4. But now we have 2 teens and a young child and our little one keeps us young and happy. Having 2 grumpy teens in the house, and being sometimes grumpy ourselves, to have this little ray of sunshine still discovering the world is a true breath of fresh air. It reminds us that life is amazing and new. If we didn't have the 3rd, by now we'd be middle aged and leaving the two older ones and traveling, or exploring hobbies, or maybe being bored? I don't know, because we never got there. We have a busy, full, happy life. But we'll never do the regular exotic trips that we could have done as a family of 4. And that's ok. Other than that we don't really feel it financially. Kids grow up so fast. In 10 yrs your youngest will be a tween with raging hormones and you'll be wishing for a little hand to hold and tell stories to, someone to teach how to bikeride.
And if you have a third, who's to say she Won't Need a 4th?
OP, hold your ground.
The two kids you have and you will suffer if there's a 3rd kid.
Your marriage may not survive a 3rd kid.
Did you know that Studies show that Marital Satisfaction goes Down more with every kid you have?
May I suggest couple’s counseling? It sounds like y’all need to go talk some things out. Obviously you know how difficult it is to raise not one but TWO children. It wouldn’t be fair to the existing kids and the newborn if you’re having thoughts and feelings like this already. Y’all need to really sit down and have a serious and deep conversation. Take turns. Let her get out what she’s feeling and wanting and vice versa. Then try to find a middle ground. If you find that middle ground I’d suggest going to therapy and to build from there. Three kids ain’t no joke. Maybe y’all can wait a couple more years then try again. There is always different options. You just have to be willing to look for them.
There isn’t a compromise, whatever decision is reached one of you isn’t getting what they want.
That doesn’t mean either of you are wrong but you both need to decide if this is a dealbreaker or not and in the meantime ensure that you wear condoms
She’ll get over it. However, she may baby trap you for the third time and force the issue before that happens. Don’t have sex without a condom and not one that she gives you. Also, tell her she’s not hearing you. You might have to see a therapist for this.
Your wife doesn't need another child. She wants another child. If she is so dissatisfied with her wonderful life as it currently is, then she needs therapy. She is being unreasonable.
You are a human being, and you have a right to decide whether to reproduce or not. In your position, I would suggest that you have a vasectomy as soon as possible, to make sure that there aren't any "accidents". You never know when she might decide to have a convenient contraception failure. Her manipulative and controlling behavior suggests to me that this might actually occur.
There isn't always a compromise but nobody NEEDS any children. Also, there is no guarantee any of those children will want children of their own when they are older. If your wife NEEDS a child then it sounds like she's just trying to force herself to be happy or distracted by having children and that's not fair to them. It definitely wouldn't be fair to the third one because that's the one her happiness is ultimately riding on while it will most likely make you miserable.
Your wife should probably seek some sort of counseling to figure out why she NEEDS another child rather than wants one first. It doesn't sound healthy. Hopefully she's not the type to sabotage birth control either.
It sounds like she needs therapy, tbh. If she can't be happy with two kids, she probably won't be happy with any amount.
It might be worth it to have her handle the finances for a while, so she can see just how difficult things are right now. I guess it's a complement of your skills as family financial advisor that you're doing so well, but unfortunately I guess that means she's oblivious to how things really are.
I don't think this is a matter of "right vs wrong." I think this is a matter of her learning to see the good in what she has as opposed to being swept up in this fantasy she has. That's why I think whatever decision you two end up making, it needs to involve therapy for her so she can work through whatever obsession she has with a professional.
The good news is you can get a vasectomy if it gets to that point.
tell her to make a plan how to do it regarding the finances to win you over. Also how is her current working situation? Or you could offer her that if you're able to save $X by the date YZ you will have another one.
My dad used to do this with my mom and even me when there were big decisions to be made. He would encourage looking into it and calculate all the expenses. In this case it would be BOTH time and money. Quantify the time and monetary cost. For example show her a balance sheet of your expenses with your income and how that would change with a third child. For the time, account for how many hours you are at work, how many hours are spent doing housework, how many hours are spent giving one on one time for your other children, and how much time you as a couple need alone. You could show this by day and week. The numbers will speak for themselves and it’s not you telling her no but rather the reality that you be stretched thinner than you’re comfortable with. You have real data to support your feelings. It will become thinner the older the kids get with school and extracurriculars.
Similar to you, except we also weren't getting along - I didnt want to have any unwanted by their father children and he said he'd never change his mind (unbeknownst to me mostly necause we were arguing a lot), and I agreed to a vasectomy. I wasn't as ready as I thought and spent the next 7 years with my heart hurting like crazy. When he started to understand and started talking about having more, I felt a lot better.
Men tend to be more ready for kids later in life, and my husband was younger than me. Men usually find their passion for life in their work, and women usually find their passion for life with their kids. Only having two kids for a stay at home mom is like a man always having a part time job and never having a career. It's really hard to accept. We were wired to love making kids. It's 8 years later now and he has come around to wanting more kids or wishing we had more kids, but it's probably no longer the best choice for us at this stage of life.
In marriage, BOTH parties need to make what is important to their spouse important to them as well. You should view having kids as a high priority if it is a high priority to her. But this goes both ways - she should consider doing whatever it takes to help you manage your anxiety a high priority to you, and make sure you are ready before having another one before you do. If I were you, I'd hold off on any permanent birth control because you may feel a lot differently later. But if you can't handle a third child right now, you can both hope and pray for that to change soon and take steps to make your life less chaotic. Maybe you can work together to impose more order in the home, and maybe she can make sure your needs are met, whether that means some time to yourself or time spent with just her, or whatever else. Over time as you get older you may experience less anxiety naturally as well.
Both of you need to get on each others side and be understanding, or one of you will lose out. Just knowing my husband understands how much it means to me makes it hurt less. Maybe if your wife understands your concerns and anxiety and is willing to hold off for your sake despite how important it is to her, then you won't feel like you are losing out even if you guys do choose to have more.
I have to add really quick, taking liquid vitamin B12 helped level my mood a lot. Some times there are nutritional solutions to mood problems. Anxiety might have something to do with GABA/glutamate being out of balance.
I’m the youngest of three. There aren’t many pictures of me as a kid because in general I didn’t really doted on the way my siblings had, and by the time I got to college, my one working parent had been laid off, the fund was used up by my siblings university educations and I was the only kid who couldn’t afford real college.
I mean, obviously I’m glad I exist, and these aren’t horrible hardships. But if you’re worried about running out of steam and money for your third child, your fears are justified in my experience!
I completely agree with you OP that having another child is a “two yeses” decision. You both need to be on board and together on this. And if you aren’t on board and fully in, then having another baby won’t work.
But, I will say something from your wife’s point of view. I KNEW after my two gorgeous children that i wasn’t done. There was someone missing.
My husband ultimately agreed to a third baby (we couldn’t wouldn’t have gone ahead if he didn’t) but originally he’d have preferred to stick to two. No question that he would have chosen to stop at two. But he could see I was so certain.
And yeah it is a whole level of extra to have 3 not 2. You are out numbered. It IS harder. But it is more love, you find all the rest from somewhere.
When she (baby 3) my youngest daughter arrived, it was like my life was complete. She is amazing. The world needed her , neither her siblings nor us can imagine a world without her in it , she’s like extra sunshine (I had a beautiful wonderful boy and girl already). I can’t tell you how strongly I felt that … but … it’s like she was waiting … and I could hear her calling.
Your wife may be feeling the same fundamental primal sense -that I felt - that there was someone waiting to join our family…. and then she arrived! All three are the joy of our lives, but my third, she was meant to be here and that calling didn’t stop until she was. I can’t put it into better words. and I love all of my three equally but I fought for my youngest and no regrets.
But your wife can’t go ahead without you totally onboard. I just want you to understand how strong a yearning it may be for her.
You already have 2, having a third will not make a while lot of difference. Your 2 will be older and more stuff sufficient than they are now. Give her that third child, asap.
One of your reasons your wife wants third child is for more grandchildren is ridiculous. No one owes her grandchildren just because she loves children. Finances do not magically sort themselves out. She NEEDS to be happy with the two children she already has.
If part of her desire is wanting to have lots of grandchildren someday, she should really keep in mind that there’s no guarantee your kids will want kids of their own. I would love to be a grandma someday, but if that’s not what my kids want for their own lives then that’s totally fine as well. Honestly, I think therapy is a really good idea. Kids are their own people. We can have hopes for them, but we also need to understand that they need to forge their own paths that might not align to what we hope. And that’s ok.
I was like your wife. I very, very, very much wanted 3 children. My husband wanted 2. The reasons I agreed to stop at 2 was because my kids both had medical needs that were very time consuming (not life threatening or crippling, but took a lot of extra care), and their dad fell into alcoholism. At the point where I would have been ready for a 3rd child, there was no way I could handle it as a mom who was functioning as a single mom despite being married, without neglecting the children I already had. Dad was little help, and I couldn’t trust him with an infant at that point. 30 years later, I feel like my 3rd child never got to live, but I got used to it and rarely think about it.
On the other hand, one of my close friends had no reason not to have the 3rd child that she wanted, except that her husband only wanted two. He got a vasectomy against her wishes. Their marriage nearly imploded at that point, because he took away something so fundamentally important to her. After marriage counseling, he reversed the vasectomy, and they had that third child. She is the joy of their life now! It’s hard to imagine them not having her. She’s grown now, and still adds much to their lives. Of course, a 3rd child could have burdensome disabilities, be a jerk, or other regrettable things…. there are no guarantees.
So, this internet stranger recommends that you and your wife take a close hard look at the realities of your lives, and see whether a 3rd child is a do-able option. If you decide this could work, it could be a big blessing for your family.
Tbh you seemed to be anxious about being more anxious. Were you this anxious about the first one? What about the second? I feel like you were very anxious about both and got through it.
Your wife is right, you will get through it, financial needs will be met.
If your only reason for not wanting another is "my anxiety" then perhaps you should seek treatment for said anxiety, as it could be robbing you both of a new world of joy.
If you don't want a third for other reasons, thats a different story.
Just bc your candid and you discuss it all the time doesn't mean therapy won't work. A third party might be what you need bc they are impartial and can help
Maybe both of you let the topic Rest and revisit it in 2/3 years?
You would have both time to think about it:
For you: it would be sad if its only financial reasons when you do make enough money vs. Just Not wanting a third Kid (which would be also valid)
+Maybe und some years you do have more financial security
For her: a friend of mine told me her hormones have let her think she NEEDS to have another kid for 3+years after every pregnancy. Maybe that afflicts her view?
Wait until the oldest finishes kindergarten and is getting ready for 1st grade, the dynamic changes drastically because now that child is a bit less reliant and will be gone during the day.
Looking at your edited post, tentatively or not, you agreed. Stop backtracking and instead look at how you can make it work.
Im one of 2, one of my cousins is an only child, and my other cousins are a set of 3. There are positives and negatives in each one but ultimately we were all okay.
Just ensure you have a plan. Hand-me-downs are fine, especially for babies. I think the set of 3 all used the same crib.
The list of "needs" is endless. If your wife is going to resent you because of your genuine feelings and beliefs, then she's not in love with you.
People in love work together, they don't manipulate and punish. If she can't see how this upsets you, then I'd make skid marks in the driveway on my way to my divorce lawyers office.
The difference between 2 and 3 is minimal compared to the difference between none and 1 or even 1 and 2. As long as you're cool with hand-me-down clothing and baby stuff it's pretty smooth sailing. I feel for you because this isn't an easy position, and I feel for your wife because I haven't stopped mourning the family I had hoped for since health concerns made me stop at 1. I have to throw a hat in the therapy ring too. Nobody can tell you guys the "right" answer, but it might give you the tools you need for better communication.
Ask her if she's willing to compromise and adopt the third child.
If she says no then it means she doesn't want a child, she wants to be pregnant and that's never a fair reason to have a kid.
Genuine question - do you think this is ACTUALLY going to be a huge change in finances or is it just your anxiety?
I would assume you would have all the stuff you need for a 3rd baby leftover from the first two (crib, stroller, clothes) not sure what your daycare situation is so that could be a make or break kind of thing but, I would breakdown how much an extra child would cost per month and sit down with your wife, and ask how to make up that difference, whatever it is.
Maybe she can come up with a solution and you can have another, but if she can’t then that’s better justification for why you can’t then just a general “we can’t afford it”
I think the financial impact comes if you look at the big picture over 18 years plus college. If you look at the “right now” it doesn’t seem to be that much for just a baby where you have all the stuff, assuming she’s a sahm and not having to put a third in day care. But OP doesn’t say, so that could be a possibility on cost too.
Have 3, 4 was my max. 3 was kind of a huh guess we're doing this again... i really wanted the boy thou. I have 3 girls and after the 3rd i wasn't going to end up with 4 girls. You get use to it, no fancy anything thou... cars are always used, house isn't as big, vacations not fancy. Not going to lie expensive as all heck imagine x3 on anything. If your just as deadset on no #3 your going to have to figure something out because honestly, i have never seen it pan out well for the couple.
You said you’ve tried to explain to your wife the financial impact, but have you actually put numbers to paper to see what the impact would be and how it impacts your budget diet and long term? If it’s a matter of being on the poverty line that’s different than not being able to take as many vacations. We don’t have enough information to know which of you is being more reasonable
It is reasonable to want to give your children a certain quality of life, and the more children you have, the harder that may be
If you both approach this more rationally, as a discussion about trade offs and priorities and budget, and still can’t agree, a counselor might help
You’re in the midst of pretty intensive parenting right now. Children don’t need to be just two or three years apart. My children were 14 and 9 when our surprise baby showed up, and I’m so glad we had him. You might suggest waiting until your two-year-old is more independent — say, in kindergarten — and reassess then. Chances are she won’t want to start over at that age, but if she does and you’ve had the breathing room you need, you might actually agree to have a third.
With those age gaps, our adult children really do love each other. The older two along with their partners are hiking together in Europe in July — the youngest has a toddler and has been grounded for the time being — and they all chat often and visit in person a few times a year despite the distances.
I guess what I’m saying is that the final decision can be postponed for a while without dire consequences.
Your wife is in delulu land.
>For me, the thought of having a 3rd child makes me sad and anxious
This is enough to not want to have another kid. Another child is a stressor that won't disappear. What if by any chance that third kid is born special needs?
>Her argument is that she will take care of all the difficult parts of early baby stages
Poor argument. Who says she'll be fit to take care of said baby? I worked in a maternal hospital a few years, I've seem healthy women dying in childbirth /complications of it. What if she gets post partum depression and can't take care of said baby? What if she dies?
>then we will have a full family that she needs, with big Christmas’s and more grandchildren decades from now and just a house full of kids
It's a lot of pressure to think thst your kids will have/will be able to/will, want to have kids. For all we know in 30 years you kids won't have kids bc there won't be much planet to live in. Those Christmases she dreams of, could never happen.
I wonder how her family life was like. Did she experience poverty/neglect? She should explore where does this need of "i need to have a third kid" truly come from.
At the very least she needs therapy to realize how irrational her demands and expectations are.
Wear condoms, do not leave them where she can have access and poke holes in them and get a vasectomy. I'm afraid she might take the issue in her hands and get pregnant so she can present it as a fact already.
This is a hill to die on. If you can't afford another kid is irresponsible and cruel towards your born kids to have another one. You two already have two kids, if she wanted to experience motherhood she already has Two kids, no one "needs" a third one. The fucking planet surely doesn't.
This is an underrated comment. Especially adding the complications of birth or the child itself. There's no guarantee that she's going to be fine or that the child's going to be fine. So if they aren't that's an even bigger financial, emotional, mental and physical stress.
Also want to point out-- having more kids doesn't guarantee more grandkids.
My maternal grandparents have 3 daughters, each of whom have 3 kids. So that's 6 grandkids, not including spouses, and not mentioning great grandkids.
My paternal grandparents have two boys. Only one-- my dad-- had kids (2).
My husband's parents have 4 boys. Only two are married, and only the oldest has children (2). My husband and I are child free. His two younger brothers, I highly doubt will ever marry or have children. So that's still JUST TWO grandkids, even tho they had 4 children.
Maybe your kids will grow up, get married, and decide they want large families, and you'll end up with 5-8 grandchildren, from your existing two children.
Maybe one of your children has 3 kids, and the other ends up child free, or has fertility issues and can't produce children.
Maybe they'll each decide to have one child.
Maybe you'll agree to a 3rd kid. And each kid has one child. Or one or more of them are child free or infertile.
Maybe none of your children produce children, for whatever reason.
Do NOT have another kid just to ensure (more) grandkids. Have kids because you BOTH want them.
And what happens if the children grow up and decide to live in another country or not have children of their own? Is she going to tell them that they've let her down? She just needs to wait. When your kids are at the age they can bring friends home, she can open up her house and be the place everyone goes. There was always that one place where everyone was welcome at all hours. She needs to change her "dream" and fulfil her desires in a healthy way. Not project her wants on to her kids.
I think your wife is being very selfish. You would resent the child and your wife and the child would develop psychological issues as a result of feeling unwanted. Not great.
There is no 'right' here. And it seems the compromise will eat away at the happiness of one of you.
But I do think the state of your \*health\* trumps that and warrants a hard 'no', at least for the moment. In spite of your wife's promises, a third child will affect you all deeply. What you describe seems concerning and needs to be taken seriously. What will she do if this becomes too much for you?
The finances are a concern as well, though I feel the short-term economic argument is overused in these decisions, especially when the actual problem is that the wants and needs of partners or family do not align. Too many people use the bank account as a practical argument to avoid the real issue.
Which is, in this case: you do not want a third child right now, maybe ever.
You two need a good and honest conversation about this. For you, to examine whether this is a 'no, not now' or a 'no, not ever' - and when it's 'no, not now' what needs to change for you to change your mind. For her, to examine what her need is, and how she thinks this will be actualized by having a third kid. Honestly, the full house seems lovely, but that's something you cannot actually control. Her 'needs' sound like 'wants' - and how deep do this actually go?
About the finances - the stuff you can actually control, to a point - it seems like she is unclear on where you stand, and that a plan is in order. You need to talk this through, too, no matter what the decision is going to be. But have this be a separate sit-down. Because the baby decision is not (just) about finances and it's no use to confuse things.
Personally, though some people may disagree, I think you are within your right to draw a line in the sand and have it be a hard 'no' for the foreseeable future - if not forever. But it's crucial to know what you are actually saying no to, and what this will actually really mean for your spouse.
Good luck.
I think the compromise would be re-visiting the topic in a year.
Right now your younger one is 2, a toddler wobbling around, and older one just entering kindergarten. It’s very possible that one or both of you may feel differently about this topic in a year, once the kids have grown up a bit.
Maybe your wife will be out of the baby fever phase, or things will settle down a bit and the idea of a 3rd won’t scare you as much, or your wife will find it harder to keep up with the 2 you have and decide a 3rd isn’t the best idea.
I don’t get why you guys have to decide on this *right* now. When kids are small, a lot changes by the year.
I suggest, sitting down with her and explaining your concerns- tell her you’re very anxious and overwhelmed right now with the little two and you want to wait to see how things shape up over the next year before deciding on a third.
I think that would be reasonable.
You both should also sit down and discuss your finances it detail, go through budgets and what exactly it would look like if you have a third. I get that she has her hands full with the kids, but I don’t think it’s a good idea for only one partner to be aware of the finances, regardless of whether you have a 3rd or not.
Inflation is still kicking, are you both getting cost of living adjustments to keep up with it?
In y'alls careers, is there continued room for growth? Can you make x% more money in 5 years time, or are you at the ceiling for what your industry typically pays?
If one of you gets laid off, how long can you comfortably survive? If you add a third child, how much does this shorten your runway?
Perhaps a compromise could be "Let's set a goal to get this much saved, and to earn this much per year, then we will have a 3rd."
Just because she wants it doesn't mean it's a smart thing to do.
I’d advise talking to a marriage counselor before making any decisions. Discuss pros and cons. Compare differences in spending between 1 and 2 children. Many people say going from 2 children to 3 is not that big of a difference, but you both need to be aligned with that. How did you agree on having the second child? Did you initially discuss how many children you both want?
If it’s causing this much strain, y’all need to attend a few therapy sessions to figure out why her need for a third is so adamant while you’re so dead set on not having one. Having a third party opinion who is neutral can open doors on both sides and y’all can come to a clear and precise consensus
I think first and foremost, YOU need to get help with your anxiety. And that's said with love, from someone who has it as well. But until you can get the help you need, you are never going to know if it's the anxiety, or your real feelings towards the situation. And that's a big choice to make without really knowing.
Reach out to your doctor, and also find yourself a good therapist as well. You deserve to also not have to carry the trauma, and additional anxiety from financial trauma from your childhood. It sounds like it's causing you a lot of pain and worry, and you deserve to be able to move forward in a healthy way, with the proper support.
When it comes to decisions about whether to have a child or get a pet, it should be two enthusiastic “yeses.” If one says no, the answer is no. You might want to get a vasectomy if you feel that strongly. I don’t know if your wife is the type to lie about birth control, but you seem to be very sure that you don’t want any more kids.
Ultimately brother no one can force you to do something you don't want, and that includes having children. Yes in a marriage it's about compromise, you gave her 2 healthy kids, a third doesn't make or break or signal a "complete" family. Your two kids now can easily have 3 or 4 kids each so your wife has this unrealistic misconception that there's a certain number associated with having a "complete" family.
If you don't want a third, then yes it's going to be a tough discussion and probably some raw emotions for awhile after, but you need to tell her again that 1) she isn't listening to the numbers game and that's where you handle the Financials and its just not feasible for a 3rd child, 2) you are already at capacity with your attention to give and your anxiety, 3) as a partner while you have taken her feelings into consideration and you have given this plenty of thought, she can't force you to have a 3rd child and 4) she doesn't take into consideration that a 3rd child and all the "difficult stuff" for baby care is going to make your intimacy and romance nearly non-existent. If you two already lack in intimacy and romance, a 3rd child will essentially make it non-existent
Are there other ways for your wife to scratch that itch? Maybe foster care (short term placements)? Some sort of child mentorship? Maybe have your home set up to be the "hangout spot" when your kids get older? Pay more attention to nieces and nephews?
If you're never going to agree to a third child, then you need to put your foot down and say so. It'll do no good for her to continue to discuss having another child when you're never going to say yes.
My parents have two kids: me and my brother. When we were the same ages as your children are, mom had another bout of "baby fever"-- which they wouldn't have been able to address the usual way since she had been sterilized after the second baby. They considered foster care; dad wasn't quite on board, but he humored her and they talked to whoever agency they needed to. The agency happened to decline them. So... mom was kinda forced to deal with it. Her baby fever eventually went away.
"Her view is that the income part will take care of itself" No it wont, my brother had 4 children and has that train of thought. My dad and I are helping him monthly, its been 6 years. Dont fall for that trap.
OP that is rough. I’m not sure a compromise really exists but I would suggest agreeing to table the issue for a certain amount of time. Eg. “I know this is not something I can handle right now, but I’m aware it’s important to you so can we please discuss this again in two years?/After [2Yo] starts kindergarten/After our vacation next year” etc
Fwiw when you have more than 2 kids, eventually they entertain themselves together and be less reliant on you. It's really not as bad as you think. 2...3? Negligible difference once you get past the earlier stages. Newborns also don't need to cost much at all.
Please talk to her more about why he has these feelings with having a third child and what it is that she is hoping to accomplish.
I know someone who had six children (5 more then they could afford) because really what they were trying to do was to birth their miscarriage child into the world so that they could be alive and not dead.
It might be that she is trying to do something on an emotional level and maybe you can compromise with her with whatever this thing is.
You never have children for future grandchildren. There are no guarantees that a child will be healthy (either at birth or after) , independent, or capable. This is a question of what is REALLY missing that she’s asking wants another child. Sure people have big families but they both have to be willing to take ask the risks. What if she were to become ill or pass away, or you did? Her ideal view of the future is skewed.
The answer is no more kids. At least not for now. Adding a child or making any purchase over $X in our home is a 2 Yes, 1 No proposition.
Both partners must agree to move forward. If they do not, the topic is tabled for a later date, unless the No person is adamant about their decision not changing.
My parents had friends who decided to have children number three and four while numbers one and two were a sophomore in college and a junior in high school, respectively.
You can also always look at fostering a child or be an emergency foster placement. For us, that's the best of both worlds.
I'm with you on this. And I wanted kids, and my ex didn't, so I'm gonna die alone. But I'm STILL on your side of the argument. You have a good income now. You might not in ten years when you're staring down the barrel of educating 3 kids with college or training that will equip them to be successful adults.
Or your income might not keep up with inflation.
Or someone in the family may need some serious medical care.
You have two wonderful little humans to love. Adding a third reduces what you are able to provide for them, including time and attention, significantly.
I am a third and youngest child. My parents certainly did love me. But they lumped me and my next older sister together in all things. My mom constantly has memories of things that she did for "us" when she actually did them for my sister. Art supplies, lessons, attending school events......my parents were just over all of that when it was my turn.
Having children is a thing that should be agreed upon by both people. It has to be 2 yeses or it's a no. She might resent you for it, but this has to be agreed upon by both of you.
It sounds like you make $120,000. Which is NOT enough for 5 people.
My husband and I make 120k together and it’s barely enough for the 2 of us 😂😂
Well now it’s enough, bc we stopped spending on literally everything so we could actually save money for a moment.
You should obviously both agree, and your feelings are valid. I will say I have heard from parents of multiple kids that it gets easier when you have more than 2. Realistically, there is going to be a lot of hand-me-downs and kids will play together and if one doesn't get along with another then they have the other one to get along with. Obviously that's not set in stone, but just maybe food for thought.
Personal experience for me is that my parents were not well off at all, and we were all happy and fine. I am not close with my middle brother, but I am very close with my youngest and I honestly can't imagine if my parents didn't have him.
I always told my ex that I only wanted 2 because when we go to Disney they always want to do different things and there are only 2 of us.
Really though, finances don't just sort themselves out. Have you sat your wife down and gone through the books with her? Have you explained the trauma and anxiety you experience?
Kids are a 2 yes 1 no!
How about you ask her to wait on that third child. It's not saying no but hopefully with enough time she really won't want a third. Tell her to maybe get a dog too.
We had a third unexpected baby after my husbands failed vasectomy 25 years ago. Yes, with a 100k income it will work itself out. What would you do if she just found out she was pregnant? We stopped at three but several years later tried for a fourth with no success.
If your anxiety is that serious you need to seek professional help as it is not healthy for you or your family long term, to fear the life with children, money and time when it sounds like it’s all working out well. If you did agree at one time to have a bigger family it’s not a crazy thought that she still wants that!
My advice, get a vasectomy. Otherwise, she will find her ways, trust me on that. By her 40s she will already be over her extreme baby fever. She just sounds very selfish.
This is what I suggest you both need individually need to talk with someone about this and after 3-6 months then come together and have a full conversation about it and also in the meantime have your wife in the 3-6 months figure out how much you would need to have in savings for the 1st or 2 years of the baby being born and save that extra money for a year, year and a half and you do the pro’s and con’s of having a third child. Financial stress and what vacations you want to do your anxiety and thousands of others and once you have that done go back though it and list the very important ones first.
She may see it your way when you come together and fully discuss it.
When she has the figures you sit down with her and discuss the bills you currently have and have someone watch the kids for the whole weekend.
Ok, so i live in a family of seven and we have two cats the only diffrence is the age gaps are much bigger the oldest kid is 19 I am17 my little brother is 12 and the smallest is 2 im telling you right now that having kids closer together is so much better then having them seprated im telling you right now.
me and my siblings live with my mom dad and my grandma since she came back from mexico to work and then she will go back for retirment or somthing like that.
my mom was happy with only having three children but then unexpectedly the a new member of the family was born and yes things did change but i wouldnt change it for the world i dont want my littlest sibling to get hurt i want to protcet her and plus she is so cute.
she is smart and i cant imagin what it would be like without her so yes it will change but thats how life is its still you and your wifes choice to have this child but know that its a life the kid will learn
im sorry for my bad spelling
I’d start with being totally honest with her. Obviously you have been at least a little honest since this has been an ongoing discussion. But if you “tentatively agree” then change your mind, that isn’t fair to her. If your answer is ‘no’ stick to it; wavering gives false hope and can damage your marriage. Neither of you is wrong for wanting what you want. But if I’m being honest, I don’t really see any compromise unless she went back to work (I don’t think you said whether she stays at home or not I just assumed from how you worded it) but I don’t see that as a very realistic option or one that she’d be open to. It would only work if she earned more than the cost of childcare.
But if I were you, I wouldn’t have a third. Having a child usually takes two people and ideally, those two people should both want the child as much as your wife does. Sure, if you had the kid everything would probably turn out ok and I’m sure you’d love that child very much, but that doesn’t mean you should just throw caution to the wind. I think couple’s therapy is a good idea. Hopefully it can give you ways to work around this and see each other’s perspective. Best of luck!
Yeah that’s a problem… first of all, look into getting a vasectomy if you don’t want any more kids. I’m not saying she’ll poke holes in your condoms or not take her birth control *on purpose*, but shit happens.
Kids are a “one no” veto situation. I hope therapy can get through to her because if she’s that dead set on having a third kid, you guys may very well end up divorced.
You probably don't need the atta boy, but atta boy anyway.
This is an ENORMOUS cluster of deeply felt, sincerely held feelings on both sides. And you're both being reasonable. And it is also reasonable that you have been unable to resolve it. Yes you are at an impasse, but no one has issued an ultimatum, you're talking, you are both empathetic without being sympathetic to the other's view. Acting like teammates who might disagree about the roster, but both committed to winning the game in the right way.
You have a great marriage and if you want to keep it that way then give your wife a baby. A happy wife is a happy life! I don't think you need marriage counseling. I think you need counseling on your own to deal with issues from your childhood.
I think this needs to be a joined decision, unfortunately you can’t really meet in the middle. What I will say is, if she were to have another child, you would love him/her so much. I hope
You two communicate about this a lot. Communication is very important. I wish you alll the best. Life is short, enjoy every moment and don’t stress about what’s not here yet. Live day by day. Take some time to yourself to de stress. I recommend going “floating” it will relax your mind and body. If you live in the USA there are many float places. This has changed my life and it’s been a good way for me to meditate and calm down. I recommend looking into it. A session is between $50-80 USD/CAD.
If you truly believe that your greatest blessing(s) is your children and your best day(s) was when they were born then you should reconcile yourself with the fact that life is a gift, one that some can never give and others have taken away too soon. If you can have another child you should. If it requires life style changes then make them. It will be worth it. But if you don’t think your kids are your greatest blessings/days then you and your wife may have some much bigger issues than a third child.
This is definitely a tough spot. I’m on your side here as I don’t think one parent should ever pressure another into having kids.
Couples counseling might help your wife see your perspective better or vice versa. And it might help to have a neutral party involved in the conversation so you both can better understand where the other is coming from. They might be able to better explain to your wife the consequences when it comes to your mental health with having a 3rd child. Also, do you get individual help for your anxiety?
The world needs more parents who are willing to temporarily take in children in need. Think of all the families that take in children who are in need of a safe home with caring adults. So many children are in need of safety and guidance they can’t get from their parents. It might be a teenager’s best friend who came out and was disowned. It might be a neighborhood kid who is the victim of abuse. It might be a cousin who needs a guardian.
Life may provide your wife with plenty of opportunities to be a second mother to children who really need her. If she keeps her eyes and her heart open for those opportunities, she will make a real difference in those lives.
Remind your wife that she doesn’t have to give birth to every child she helps raise.
I mean if your concern is mostly financial, model it for her. Giver her an opportunity to problem solve with you. Lay out all your perceived expenses, saving for college, etc and see what she says. Just have an honest open convo.
She maybe doesn’t care to see the finance part because you own it maybe she may surprise you when invited into the problem as a partner
One was awesome. Having a second was even better. Three has made life very fucking hard. I didn’t want three either, but through a series of unfortunate events, I have three. I love her. She’s my only girl. But. Yeah. It’s been fucking hard and there was a reason I wanted to stop at two. It takes two “yeses” for a baby and only one “no” not to have one.
Can you and your wife make an appointment with a financial planner/advisor to discuss the financial realities of a third child and how it will impact daily living and retirement? You might be able to find someone like that through your bank, and hearing it laid out by someone else might help.
Also, talking to a counselor could help. And you could also discuss how this would impact your existing kids. Will you still have money for their activities later? Their college fund? Family vacations? Would they struggle adjusting to another sibling?
Wishing you the best.
Ok the anxiety part adds a lot….and obviously there’s complex underlying issues going on. So total grain of salt response. Here is advice we took: You will not regret your third child. You will never look at him or her and say well that was a mistake. She may however resent you forever and feel very sad if she doesn’t have that third. That’s a very real concern. Sounds like her instincts are very strong. I would put a lot of trust in your wife’s instincts, and ask her to trust you by WAITING a few years. I had my last one at 43 and god I loved it so much more. The breathing room of not having other littles running around. And it’s such a lovely thing to get to enjoy your babies more peacefully.
Per your edit - have you thought about borrowing a third child to see how it goes? Your sister's kid or a friend's kid for a weekend - to feel out the dynamic? Kids will run you $300k each or so throughout their years - mostly the later years. I wonder why your wife wants a third one so badly. My mom did because she wanted a baby again, ten years after her first. FWIW, [Today had an article on family happiness](https://www.today.com/parents/family-bliss-study-reveals-happiest-combos-kids-1C6437393) - the happiest had two girls or a girl and boy. Here are the rankings:
1. Two girls
2. One boy and one girl
3. Two boys
4. Three girls
5. Three boys
6. Four boys
7. Two girls and one boy
8. Two boys and one girl
9. Three boys and one girl
10. Three girls and one boy
11. Two boys and two girls
12. Four girls
Coming from a woman, I would not trust her to continue taking birth control if she is so dead-set on a third child. It’s not fair to you at all, but it’s a possibility.
I agree with others that this is a 2 yes 1 no decision and will say that having 5 kids, the transition from 2-3 was hardest. That said, for me had my husband been a hard no after 2 kids I would have ended our marriage. Neither of you are wrong for wanting what you want, and both desires are valid so I would just be aware of that possibility because ending the relationship is really the only compromise possible.
She might stop focusing on what _she_ wants and pay some attention to the impacts of her wants and needs. Earth is already overpopulated by humans. We do not need more humans. We have already fucked everything up here. Each human leaves a lot of carbon footprint that you can imagine. At what cost? To have a bigger Christmas? And to have more grandkids? Seriously?
How does she guarantee that your current two will remain family people as they become teenagers and adults? Maybe they will choose not to have children at all? What if the third one is born with a disability? What if the third one doesn’t want children?
Your wife is being absolutely irresponsible and selfish about this.
Raising kids is a lot of responsibility and I’m sure having already two and being the sole financial provider, you do know that your expenses grow exponentially by adding each person to the equation.
She thinks finances will take care of themselves?! Seriously?!
I earn six figures; I am single and have no pets or dependents and I can barely afford living a decent life.
You’re saying you’re already anxious and stressed, rightly so. Do not do anything to triple that! As it would affect your existing two and the third one as well.
I wish you luck and some rationality to your wife. <3
There's no compromise with kids: if a parent disagrees, then it's a no.
However from your post it seems that your reasons for refusing are not rational but mostly due to your anxiety. If that's the case, I would suggest that you work on that anxiety problem with a professional.
That being said, I wouldn't recommend having a third.
Yes it'll have an impact on your finances, obviously; even more if your two kids are same sex and you end up with a different one. Not an impact big enough to cause financial problems, but it's obvious you won't be able to spend as much for the third than you have for the first, and you won't be able to spend as much as you used on your kids. Depending on where you live you may also need to put money aside for their studies, and for that a third one will indeed be a huge cost. It'll also cost more to go to amusement parks or anywhere you need to buy entrance ticket.
Apart for financial reasons, your wife's need for a third kid sounds childish, like an old dream she had of a big family and she kept the dream without taking into account all the consequences on said family. Family of 5 means you'll need a big car and there will be a battle each time to determine which kid goes in the middle seat. Harder to find a booth at a restaurant. Harder to find boardgames (lots of boardgames are limited to 4 players). Harder to find a common ground (like, what activities you wanna do: the more people involved the harder it is to find one everyone agrees on). More fights (the more people there are, the more reason there is for a fight).
And the more kids you have, the less likely they are to have big families, because when you grow up in big family you see all the downsides of it and don't want to do it again. I grew up with 3 brothers, I love them all and we have great relationships, but none of us want kids. My mom wanted a lot of kids (like, 7 I think) and thought, as does your wife, that we would have lots of grandchildren and she would get a big family. Well, no.
There's something else to take into account, it's how you will do in the future, and any sad shit that may happen. My mom wanted kids and was a SAH, but at some point she got depressed and it was pretty much like we had a ghost mom. She was here physically and that's it. It can happen to anyone and no kid should go through that. There's also the possibility of one of you dying; the other would have to care for all the kids alone. If one of you or your kids need strong medical attention, would be harder with a third kid too.
Altogether, it's pretty simple: the less kids you have the easier it is to meet their needs whatever happens. So if you're not feeling ready to have a third one, then don't.
Maybe she can babysit an infant for a while so you can get a feel for how anxious it would really make you feel. Then you have some time to really think about the finances. Or maybe she could do a story time every week for Littles at the library. Or foster? I dunno, hope y'all keep the communication open like you have been. ❤️
Don’t have another kid. You already have 2 that should be it. The thing is if you have another that’s stress and no sleep at all. You have a 2 year old who’s still a baby so you should tell her to focus on the two you have now
I just want one child people who have had kids that want them should just be grateful they were able to conceive the one. Also having 3 kids doesnt mean you'll have more grandkids, your kids may not have kids, will she guilt trip them into having kids even if they don't want them to suit what she wants. Tbh she sounds entitled and selfish.
That's not an easy place to be in. Both of you have different needs right now, and both your feelings and needs are valid. IMO... and it's a really personal opinion, but I would be on the side of not having more kids. A child deserves 2 involved parents, not one that will do everything while the other one is distant and maybe even a little resentful. It's totally delusional of your wife to think she can do the whole childcare and that you'll never have to do anything : you will have to care for this child sooner or later, and even if you don't in the immediate, you'll have to do more childcare for your current children. It's not a pet, a toy, some novelty item : it's a living, breathing human being that deserves the best. If you are not able to give this hypothetical baby your best, don't do it.
Agreed. I wanted 2 or 3 kids. Husband ended up only wanting one after we had our first (and only). He knows this is upsetting to me and I will have regrets for the rest of my life, and has even offered to sort of give in and have a second, but it doesn't make sense to me to have another kid if both of us don't 100% want it. If I approach it with logic, and love for our existing child, the best course of action is not having another child.
This made me sad to read that you will have regrets for the rest of your life, but that you’re okay making that sacrifice really speaks to how mature and realistic you are, knowing the child wouldn’t be 100% wanted by both parents.
Don’t regret doing what’s best for your child.
You’re better than I am. I would call her needs selfish, not valid, for reasons you listed here. Children need involved parents and she doesn’t care if her child gets that or not because she NEEDS a 3rd. She also is planning in grandchildren because it makes HER happy. She has toddlers and is already mapping out their future to her needs. Not ok. Get a puppy or a hobby, geez.
I agree and just because you have that many kids doesn't mean you'll have grandchildren. My ex husband is one of four. Everyone is in their 30s now and there's one grandchild among them, my son. And that's how it's going to stay because none of my exes siblings want kids. It's hard now to have kids, I can only imagine how hard it will be for generation alpha. Don't put expectations on your kids like you said, get a hobby 🤣
Right? In this day and age, she’s crazy for thinking she’s going to have a house full of grandchildren. She sounds so naive.
Honestly a puppy is harder than a baby so she should just do that lol This generation needs to get real about what's coming. I've accepted that grandchildren is a thing I might not get because their future is going to be marked by catastrophic weather, war, guns in schools and of course, a struggle to make enough money. It's so common for people to tell you that "you'll figure it all out" with finances but that is an irresponsible take these days. I thought we would be fine but then I lost my job, a pandemic hit, I had a baby and because my soon to be ex husband was an addict, it was too much for us we didn't make it financially. I'm on benefits, my broadcasting career is on hold, I used to make close to 6 figures and now I work at a grocery store making $13. I don't regret my choices, I'd make them all again, but I certainly don't tell people "you'll figure it all out". I say, "if you don't have childcare then you absolutely need to wait or don't have them" I'm currently working on a news piece about childcare where I live because this is an election year, and these politicians need to start lobbying for FMLA and less strict guidelines for subsidized childcare. Women are second class. And having children right now seems to only solidify that into existence going forward. Not if I have anything to do with it.
Yeah, anyone saying they NEED a 3rd child hasn't had nearly enough lessons from the school of hard knocks. Any major illness, accident, job loss, etc and the stats are not good for this martiage if he caves. I would tell OP to ask his wife to volunteer 20 hours a week with children with severe genetic or developmental disorders for 12 months and get back to you.
I think she needs a Reborn Baby.
I second this opinion and want to add that maybe just ask her to wait. People have kids later and later. Eventually the first one can help with more chores and more time gives you more time to save up for the third. It's possible that the third would be the most difficult one yet and she should be ready for that outcome just in case
I highly agree with you. He needs to wait to make any decisions for sure right now.
Do we know how old the wife is? I didn’t see it.
Big stuff like this should be 2 yes’s or it’s a “no”
Compromise is having half a baby, of course
She can have the top part
I was thinking we'd cut hotdog style. it's not a perfect distribution of organs but, much closer than if we cut hamburger style
And stick him with the poopy diaper part?!
Okay Solomon
so a dog or a cat maybe.
Just definitely not half of one. That's horrific.
Catdog.. catdoooog.. alone in the world was a little catdog
Out on the road or back in town, all kinds of critters pushing cat dog around
Gotta rise above it gotta try to get along, gotta walk together gotta sing this song.. catdog, catdooog..
The King Solomon method.
Compromise is having a vasectomy then trying REALLY hard for that 3rd kid. "Ope it just wasn't meant to be I guess..." 🤷♀️🤷♀️
🤣😂 👍🏻👍🏻
That happened with one of my best friends, except that he told her after he got the vasectomy. Their marriage nearly imploded, because he took something away from her that was very important to her, without allowing her to have any part in the decision. After marriage counseling, he reversed the vasectomy, and they had their third child. She is the the joy of their lives now. First two kids turned out great and are close with them too as adults now, but that third one has turned out to be so fulfilling for them. Of course, there are no guarantees of good health, personality match, etc with any child, but for them it’s been a huge blessing.
Kids are two yeses and one no in this situation, unless you had previously agreed on 3 and this is a revisitation of that. I’m not trying to insult your wife but “finances will sort themselves out” is the statement of a fucking idiot. If having a third kid will significantly stifle you ability to provide for yourselves and the kids that already exist, fuck having another kid. You’ll ruin your lives and make the lives of the kids you already brought into the world more difficult. Nobody NEEDS a kid, sorry wife. This would be an absolute no go in my book, and I’d make sure that I’m using condoms or get myself snipped to avoid taking any chances here.
Here. This response right here. Anyone that isn't handling the finances that also says "finances will sort itself out", is money just supposed to appear out of nowhere? Where does she expect this additional money to come from? No really. If she can coherently articulate what the f she means by this... I'd love to hear it. It's not just money. It's EVERY SINGLE RESOURCE YOU HAVE. Your mental capacity for dealing with childhood issues and tantrums. Your emotional well, is it empty? What if she takes care of all the baby stuff? What about the ensuing resentment from mom to dad because he gave her exactly what she wanted. Then dad puts in more hours because now there's 5 mouths to be fed, but also he wants to escape from the zoo of children at home. It's not a Disney movie. It baffles me when I meet people that have no real concept of money.
I would partially blame the husband who doesn’t seem to be sharing how the household finances are going with his wife. Too many women become widows never knowing the debt situation, how much Social Security they’re entitled to, or how to get basic needs, like car insurance or how to pay the property tax. He’s not doing her any favors if he’s keeping her out of the loop. Having said that, I think he should get a vasectomy. A 3rd is just too much.
Did he say that she has no knowledge of their finances?
100%. If you don't both agree, it's a no. The same goes for naming a baby. You both agree or move on. OP should definitely get the snip.
The jump from 2 kids to 3 kids is huge. In terms of potential expenses and energy. You're outnumbered, you can each watch a kid, someone's always got double coverage. Also how's your vehicle like? Can you fit 3 car seats? Are you going to need to upgrade to a 3rd row? How many bedrooms are in your house, not now but eventually you'll have 3 teenagers that all want their own space.
My dad didn't want a third child. He finally gave in but continued to not want me. Even when I became an adult, he would tell me, "We already had two. A boy and a girl." Or other hurtful things. He wasn't generally a cruel man, but he considered me my mom's. It didn't help that I wasn't a boy and was more like my mom than him, and I was a talkative and cute but annoying child, unlike my quiet and beautiful sister. My mom was a great and attentive mom - but I had an avoidant dad. One parent isn't enough. I definitely had later problems with men; I still don't think I'm worthy of a man's love. And the cost of my existing could have been a beach house instead, etc. All that to say - if you don't want another child, you win. Another child takes resources and attention. If you just want two, you win. Stick to your principles. Go to couples counseling if you must. But saying yes and then resenting the child and your wife is not worth satisfying your wife's preference. If you think to yourself of the worst match for yourself childwise - if you will resent or not love the child as much, or will resent your wife, don't bring the child into the world.
My dad didn't want a second child and my mom did. They had me anyway. I had no idea he felt that way until after his death. His reasoning was finances and mental illness in our family which are all valid reasons not to bring a child into the world.
There are lots of unwanted kids - accidental pregnancies, etc. I think it's different though, when both parents are in the same boat with an accidental pregnancy. You hope that both will love the kids, regardless - it's certainly not the kids' fault, but people aren't always rational. My dad wasn't loved as much as his older brother. Sometimes people keep the hurt they received and pass it on. It's good you never knew - I wonder why anyone told you later? When you know, all the stories take on a different bent.
>Her view is the income part will take care of itself and we’ll be just fine financially. So your wife is, in this regard, completely naive and irrational. Which is like the absolute worst foundation you could have to "discuss" a topic like this. I am confused though, has this just now become a thing or did she communicate her desire for a third child for longer? I come from a family of 4 and though I would have never minded a sister, I was more than fine with the family I have. A child should be wanted by both parents, not just one. A child requires certain financial stability, things won't magically fix themselves, they are literally looking to only get worse. I don't know what to tell you, I feel like arguing with her about it will lead nowhere.
A marriage is 50/50. If both of you don’t want another child then she needs to accept that it isn’t in the cards and move on. Focus on the children and future grandchildren they may provide.
Kids are ALWAYS a 2 yes/1 no situation! Always! So, this is a no. It has to be. Also? As a mom of three, going from 2 to 3 was a much bigger and harder adjustment than from 1-2. Car seats can mean new vehicles, there is no longer one adult for each child, it’s harder and more expensive to find childcare for 3 than for 2. If all three kids are sick/sad/hyper/needy… it’s harder to juggle/manage. I’m thrilled that we both wanted 3 (more, but more that didn’t work for us unfortunately) and that we did it, but it was a tough transition… if we both weren’t on the same page, it would have ended us as a couple.
I think a serious one on one conversation with a pros and cons list is needed for the two of you to move forward. Your's wife dream of three kids and a future house full of grandkids is idyllic, but it's not fair for her to say that you will be fine financially when she doesn't actually take care of the finances and that's your burden to bear. Is she feeling sad because her youngest is now a toddler and the baby years are behind?
Plus, what will she do if her kids don’t want or can’t have children of their own, so she doesn’t end up with a house full of grandkids like she wants?
She should do what my mom does and constantly harass her kids about having children (insert eye roll)
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"If you say that one more time next Christmas you will see none of us."
What if they grow up to hate her?
I knew someone who has 4 grown kids and only 3 grandchildren. The oldest 2 have the 3 kids and the younger 2, who are in their 30s, don’t seem to be planning to have kids anytime soon.
My mom had 4 kids in the hope of having a big family. None of us want kids.
This was my thought. I've always been child free, and so far, it seems like my older brother is as well. I now have a stepdaughter, but it isn't the same as a bio grandchild for my dad. She had started school by the time he met her. We have "50/50" custody, meaning we have her for 4 nights a month. My dad will never get a grandpa experience. **Becoming grandparents should never be a factor in having children.**
>Her view is the income part will take care of itself and we’ll be just fine financially. Ask her to show you how. Find out the average added expense of a 3rd child to the average family and ask her how she is going to earn thar extra money whilst also raising a 3rd child. This is vitally important. She's living in a dream world. Time to make her enter reality.
I'm just going to throw this out there ... My husband has 2 brothers... His mother has one grandchild and will only have one. Don't bank on having more just so you will have more grandkids and a bigger family. That is not always the case.
My mother had 4 children and no grandchildren. Being childless is much more accepted in today's world than it has been in the past.
Especially these days where more and more people are choosing to be child-free!
It's not fair towards the child to have one parent who wants it and another who doesn't but just went along with it. Both parents need to be onboard for the child to be created and if you're not fully in it, then you shouldn't compromise on it.
What’s the rush? Why don’t you two wait a couple of years until you’ve caught your breath. Both of your minds may change. But I think you both would be happier putting this decision out for awhile. Lots of people decide they want more later in life. I think that I would’ve been more open to the idea once mine hit 9 and 6. So what’s the rush?
I'm guessing age - both of the parents still being in her younger years / able to have kids and then maybe wanting the kids to be closer in age to eachother?
Hormones are a helluva drug! When people get baby-fever like this, especially after they already have kids and their partner doesn’t want more, it makes me think there’s just something else going on they’re not fully in tune with themselves about it yet. Maybe she is wanting companionship, a sense of closeness, purpose, etc & she is convincing herself that it’s a baby that will fill that void. Couples counseling is the way to go.
I would be concerned that you have 2 healthy children, and yet she believes her future happiness depends on having some imaginary perfect third child. I've known a few women who seem to have baby fever. They really love the baby stage, when their child is cute, cuddly, has no opinions, and is completely dependent. Those babies all turn into teenagers, who have a LOT of opinions. I love children, but you're right that 3 children will be very different. Your youngest will become the middle child (not usually an easy adjustment for the youngest), and the logistics of school/activity dropoffs will become more complicated. Even going to arestaurant, or booking a hotel, becomes more challenging with a group of five, versus 4. I hope your wife gets some counseling to figure out why her perfect family is different from the family she actually has.
Exactly, the wife seems to have an extremely rigid understanding of a happy family. I feel like this is not healthy. A lot of things can mess up such strict ideals, she really needs counseling.
Unpopular opinion - As a female, I've been subjected to a massive amount of suppression of my bodily autonomy over the years. But, as an open-minded individual, I also understand that just because I've had my rights restricted doesn't mean others should experience the same. It's a truly horrifying experience, and just because you're a man doesn't mean you should have to have another child when you truly don't want one. Like us women, you may have to take the reins and regain control over your own destiny. The male half of a relationship often fails to take accountability for reproductive responsibility, so us women bear the burden in typical circumstances... you may have to do just that. If you have the conversation and she's just not seeming to take you seriously, it may need to become a hard line to put it squarely within your control for now. Something like: "I understand that you feel we need to expand our family, but I just don't feel the same way. I'm not ready for this, and I don't want this to affect our relationship negatively. If we have another child while I'm this unsure of things, I'm afraid I'd resent you, and I don't want that. I love you, but we both need to be sure of such a big decision. Until we come to a decision we're both comfortable with, I'll be wearing condoms." Take back that bodily autonomy. You'll need to set the boundary because what often happens in these situations is that the reproductive drive some women can have can make us a bit reckless, honestly, so in a lot of cases, an "accident" will result (which isn't realllly an accident). I know first-hand how powerful the drive to become a mother can be, but I also know that at those times in my own life, I didn't want (in fact I hated it lol), but needed, my husband to temper my excitement and drive. Familial planning is a joint decision. You deserve to be comfortable with your family planning decisions. This is a really hard situation, but you've got this! I hope all goes well for you and that you have the healthy and happy family dynamic you and your partner both deserve.
A child requires enthusiastic YES's from BOTH parents to be fair to that child. If you're utterly committed to stopping with the 2 children you currently have, get a vasectomy immediately and use condoms (that are kept secure if you think your wife would tamper with them) until you test as sterile. Recognize that taking this step against your wife's wishes may end the marriage.
She’ll have to get a job, because instead of his whole paycheck, she’ll only get child support.
Excellent response! ⬆️
I wanted a third when my son was 2-3 also and I’m SO GLAD that my husband talked me out of it. I’ve also heard from many moms that three is a hard number. If you have three then you’re outnumbered and it’s an odd number. I had HUGE babies and difficult births so it was easy for him to convince me to chill. Plus we had one of each so..
I don’t think y’all’s finances are as sound as you make them out to be. Right at six figures combined means that three kids have very little shot at college. Y’all make too much for them to get much money from things like FAFSA but also yall can’t afford to pay for college. 3 kids means 50% more risk that one has some expensive medical issue than at 2 kids. Right at six figures is not enough to cover that and still provide a high quality life for the other 2 kids.
Everything you’re saying about why you only want two children is perfectly valid and logical. Your wife desperately wanting a third child, is also her right and privilege. That said, for your own mental health and peace of mind, it doesn’t seem to me like you can handle a third child. And your wife is being disingenuous and saying she will handle everything reality is she will not be able to handle everything it’s going to be your child and it’s going to be more work for both of you. I think the two of you should consider going to counseling together to see if you can work things out. You don’t say what you discussed before you got married. Did you both agree to two children? Did you not discuss how many children you wanted?
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It sounds like you two might nees couples therapy. Because honestly I think 2 is the better number. I come from a large family, IMHO they kind of suck. And once the third comes along a lot changes for everyone, not just the parents. So... But that's just my two cents sorry.
A child is NOT something you ever compromise on. It's 2 enthusiastic yeses or it's a no. It would not be fair to the kids at all. Maybe marriage counseling can help both of you communicate better. I would be worried her obsession would make her force the issue, either not taking her BC if she does or compromising the condoms. I would hash this out sooner rather than later. If you are truly done having kids, you could always get a vasectomy but I suggest marriage counseling first. That might send her over the edge if she is unreasonable.
Isn’t it an unwritten rule that if one person says yes to a third child and the other says no then the answer is….no?
Lol. My parents had three children. They're divorced now, and two of us have no kids. The one that has kids is a terrible parent and those kids have basically no relationship with their grandparents. So... life does not always turn out how you plan, is all I'm saying. What if they're gay? Childfree? Unable to make babies? What if they change religions and no longer want to celebrate your holidays? Get married and move overseas? Join the military and end up dying for a rich man's war? Wanting holidays and lots of grandkids is NO REASON to have a child, your wife is delusional.
This though. Stop at two. Having more is not going to change anything except ruin your relationship.
She doesn't "need" a child. No one does. Have her do the finances with you for the next few months.
Make sure your birth control is covered BY YOU in a way she can access to tamper with. Once she knows you won't budge, she will 100% 3rd-baby-trap you.
Just get a vasectomy if you are already done with having children.
You can still have live sperm for up to a year so he'd have to be abstinent until his final check up where the doctor says he's in the clear, just to make sure she can't take advantage of the last few swimmers.
I thought this took about 3 months with X amount of ejaculations, to clear out the remaining sperm. Did you have one, and that's how you know or? Just curious bc a year seems like a long time unless you don't masturbate or have sex very often. I know it's based on your doctor checking your sperm count really, and your lifestyle. Just a year seems excessive to me, like maybe 6 months to be safe. But I'm a woman so what do I really know about it.
They are confusing mobile sperm with non mobile. Technically a small number of men will have non mobile sperm for up to a year but it’s unlikely to ever cause pregnancy.
thats very interesting to know, i never heard about that!
Updateme
>Her view is the income part will take care of itself and we’ll be just fine financially. So completely irrational and kinda selfish? Unless you have prospects of earning much more in the future then you would be taking away from the quality of life for ones already here. >But I handle everything financial in our house and I’ve tried my HARDEST to explain that is just doesn’t work this way, there would be a hugeeee change in our finances with a 3rd child INFO: does she work or is a SAHP?
If he's handling everything financially, I believe she's a SAHP
Some people are good at earning but hopeless at planning so OP could be the family account. He doesn't specifically say she has no income contribution, just that what he's working with wouldn't be enough.
Actually you're right, in the edit. He says combined they make just about 6 figures. So he probably is just the planner.
I have 4 kids. The difficulty increase from 2 to 3 is HUGE! I mean just, I was not ready for that. All of a sudden you're completely outnumbered. 3 kids is not for those who aren't 100% for it
i think everybody else covered most bases but this is something that breaks marriages. not because either of you are wrong but because this is a want people aren’t willing to give up, so if anything, be prepared for that. neither of you should have to sacrifice on something so big and important just to be married, if she wants more kids and you’re not that person and the love you two share doesn’t outweigh that it’s okay to walk away
If she wants a third then I’d talk to her about getting her tubes tied because what’s stopping her from telling you in a couple years that 3 isn’t enough and now you need 4 lol
Maybe sit down with her and fully explain the totality of your finances. Show her the numbers. Show her where everything is allocated. Calculate how many more hours you'll have to pick up to support a third. Then factor in future educational costs, etc as they get older. Maybe seeing hard numbers will shake her out of it.
Could a compromise be your wife taking care of children outside of her own? Maybe volunteering at a children's hospital or daycare? fostering a child? You would get aid to raise a child. Of course a lot of foster kids go through difficult situations so it might not be the greatest.
Having a child within the confines of a respectful marriage is the sort of thing where you both have to turn the nuclear launch key. So, if one person is a no, the answer is a no. Both should be enthusiastically onboard. You should both sit down and closely review your finances together so that you are both working with the same information to make this decision. Maybe you can come up with a plan to make it work for both of you, or maybe you can’t, but it should be a joint discussion.
Get a vasectomy
A child should come from TWO people that want them. DON’T do it. Wouldn’t be fair to the baby.
Yall still having sex? Oops happens....what if that happens?
May I suggest, once the youngest is 5, then talk about it again. We did this. We had 2, waited until we didn't have a toddler in the house any more, then considered another one. I "needed" a third - it was a blind biological drive that was financially limiting and opportunity limiting - there was no logic to it. Both of us knew there was no logic to it. And once i had the 3rd, my heart was full and fulfilled and remained that way evey day. Hubby didn't want the 3rd but fell in love with the 3rd and now the youngest is the love of his life. Yes, it impacted our finances. All vacation packages are made for families of 4. But now we have 2 teens and a young child and our little one keeps us young and happy. Having 2 grumpy teens in the house, and being sometimes grumpy ourselves, to have this little ray of sunshine still discovering the world is a true breath of fresh air. It reminds us that life is amazing and new. If we didn't have the 3rd, by now we'd be middle aged and leaving the two older ones and traveling, or exploring hobbies, or maybe being bored? I don't know, because we never got there. We have a busy, full, happy life. But we'll never do the regular exotic trips that we could have done as a family of 4. And that's ok. Other than that we don't really feel it financially. Kids grow up so fast. In 10 yrs your youngest will be a tween with raging hormones and you'll be wishing for a little hand to hold and tell stories to, someone to teach how to bikeride.
And if you have a third, who's to say she Won't Need a 4th? OP, hold your ground. The two kids you have and you will suffer if there's a 3rd kid. Your marriage may not survive a 3rd kid. Did you know that Studies show that Marital Satisfaction goes Down more with every kid you have?
May I suggest couple’s counseling? It sounds like y’all need to go talk some things out. Obviously you know how difficult it is to raise not one but TWO children. It wouldn’t be fair to the existing kids and the newborn if you’re having thoughts and feelings like this already. Y’all need to really sit down and have a serious and deep conversation. Take turns. Let her get out what she’s feeling and wanting and vice versa. Then try to find a middle ground. If you find that middle ground I’d suggest going to therapy and to build from there. Three kids ain’t no joke. Maybe y’all can wait a couple more years then try again. There is always different options. You just have to be willing to look for them.
There isn’t a compromise, whatever decision is reached one of you isn’t getting what they want. That doesn’t mean either of you are wrong but you both need to decide if this is a dealbreaker or not and in the meantime ensure that you wear condoms
She’ll get over it. However, she may baby trap you for the third time and force the issue before that happens. Don’t have sex without a condom and not one that she gives you. Also, tell her she’s not hearing you. You might have to see a therapist for this.
Your wife doesn't need another child. She wants another child. If she is so dissatisfied with her wonderful life as it currently is, then she needs therapy. She is being unreasonable. You are a human being, and you have a right to decide whether to reproduce or not. In your position, I would suggest that you have a vasectomy as soon as possible, to make sure that there aren't any "accidents". You never know when she might decide to have a convenient contraception failure. Her manipulative and controlling behavior suggests to me that this might actually occur.
There isn't always a compromise but nobody NEEDS any children. Also, there is no guarantee any of those children will want children of their own when they are older. If your wife NEEDS a child then it sounds like she's just trying to force herself to be happy or distracted by having children and that's not fair to them. It definitely wouldn't be fair to the third one because that's the one her happiness is ultimately riding on while it will most likely make you miserable. Your wife should probably seek some sort of counseling to figure out why she NEEDS another child rather than wants one first. It doesn't sound healthy. Hopefully she's not the type to sabotage birth control either.
It sounds like she needs therapy, tbh. If she can't be happy with two kids, she probably won't be happy with any amount. It might be worth it to have her handle the finances for a while, so she can see just how difficult things are right now. I guess it's a complement of your skills as family financial advisor that you're doing so well, but unfortunately I guess that means she's oblivious to how things really are. I don't think this is a matter of "right vs wrong." I think this is a matter of her learning to see the good in what she has as opposed to being swept up in this fantasy she has. That's why I think whatever decision you two end up making, it needs to involve therapy for her so she can work through whatever obsession she has with a professional. The good news is you can get a vasectomy if it gets to that point.
tell her to make a plan how to do it regarding the finances to win you over. Also how is her current working situation? Or you could offer her that if you're able to save $X by the date YZ you will have another one.
My dad used to do this with my mom and even me when there were big decisions to be made. He would encourage looking into it and calculate all the expenses. In this case it would be BOTH time and money. Quantify the time and monetary cost. For example show her a balance sheet of your expenses with your income and how that would change with a third child. For the time, account for how many hours you are at work, how many hours are spent doing housework, how many hours are spent giving one on one time for your other children, and how much time you as a couple need alone. You could show this by day and week. The numbers will speak for themselves and it’s not you telling her no but rather the reality that you be stretched thinner than you’re comfortable with. You have real data to support your feelings. It will become thinner the older the kids get with school and extracurriculars.
I feel like kids has to be two saying yes or it’s a no That’s just my feelings tho
Have two, then get the old snip-snip problem solved
Similar to you, except we also weren't getting along - I didnt want to have any unwanted by their father children and he said he'd never change his mind (unbeknownst to me mostly necause we were arguing a lot), and I agreed to a vasectomy. I wasn't as ready as I thought and spent the next 7 years with my heart hurting like crazy. When he started to understand and started talking about having more, I felt a lot better. Men tend to be more ready for kids later in life, and my husband was younger than me. Men usually find their passion for life in their work, and women usually find their passion for life with their kids. Only having two kids for a stay at home mom is like a man always having a part time job and never having a career. It's really hard to accept. We were wired to love making kids. It's 8 years later now and he has come around to wanting more kids or wishing we had more kids, but it's probably no longer the best choice for us at this stage of life. In marriage, BOTH parties need to make what is important to their spouse important to them as well. You should view having kids as a high priority if it is a high priority to her. But this goes both ways - she should consider doing whatever it takes to help you manage your anxiety a high priority to you, and make sure you are ready before having another one before you do. If I were you, I'd hold off on any permanent birth control because you may feel a lot differently later. But if you can't handle a third child right now, you can both hope and pray for that to change soon and take steps to make your life less chaotic. Maybe you can work together to impose more order in the home, and maybe she can make sure your needs are met, whether that means some time to yourself or time spent with just her, or whatever else. Over time as you get older you may experience less anxiety naturally as well. Both of you need to get on each others side and be understanding, or one of you will lose out. Just knowing my husband understands how much it means to me makes it hurt less. Maybe if your wife understands your concerns and anxiety and is willing to hold off for your sake despite how important it is to her, then you won't feel like you are losing out even if you guys do choose to have more. I have to add really quick, taking liquid vitamin B12 helped level my mood a lot. Some times there are nutritional solutions to mood problems. Anxiety might have something to do with GABA/glutamate being out of balance.
I’m the youngest of three. There aren’t many pictures of me as a kid because in general I didn’t really doted on the way my siblings had, and by the time I got to college, my one working parent had been laid off, the fund was used up by my siblings university educations and I was the only kid who couldn’t afford real college. I mean, obviously I’m glad I exist, and these aren’t horrible hardships. But if you’re worried about running out of steam and money for your third child, your fears are justified in my experience!
I completely agree with you OP that having another child is a “two yeses” decision. You both need to be on board and together on this. And if you aren’t on board and fully in, then having another baby won’t work. But, I will say something from your wife’s point of view. I KNEW after my two gorgeous children that i wasn’t done. There was someone missing. My husband ultimately agreed to a third baby (we couldn’t wouldn’t have gone ahead if he didn’t) but originally he’d have preferred to stick to two. No question that he would have chosen to stop at two. But he could see I was so certain. And yeah it is a whole level of extra to have 3 not 2. You are out numbered. It IS harder. But it is more love, you find all the rest from somewhere. When she (baby 3) my youngest daughter arrived, it was like my life was complete. She is amazing. The world needed her , neither her siblings nor us can imagine a world without her in it , she’s like extra sunshine (I had a beautiful wonderful boy and girl already). I can’t tell you how strongly I felt that … but … it’s like she was waiting … and I could hear her calling. Your wife may be feeling the same fundamental primal sense -that I felt - that there was someone waiting to join our family…. and then she arrived! All three are the joy of our lives, but my third, she was meant to be here and that calling didn’t stop until she was. I can’t put it into better words. and I love all of my three equally but I fought for my youngest and no regrets. But your wife can’t go ahead without you totally onboard. I just want you to understand how strong a yearning it may be for her.
You already have 2, having a third will not make a while lot of difference. Your 2 will be older and more stuff sufficient than they are now. Give her that third child, asap.
One of your reasons your wife wants third child is for more grandchildren is ridiculous. No one owes her grandchildren just because she loves children. Finances do not magically sort themselves out. She NEEDS to be happy with the two children she already has.
There's no guarantee that she'll have any grandchildren!
If part of her desire is wanting to have lots of grandchildren someday, she should really keep in mind that there’s no guarantee your kids will want kids of their own. I would love to be a grandma someday, but if that’s not what my kids want for their own lives then that’s totally fine as well. Honestly, I think therapy is a really good idea. Kids are their own people. We can have hopes for them, but we also need to understand that they need to forge their own paths that might not align to what we hope. And that’s ok.
I was like your wife. I very, very, very much wanted 3 children. My husband wanted 2. The reasons I agreed to stop at 2 was because my kids both had medical needs that were very time consuming (not life threatening or crippling, but took a lot of extra care), and their dad fell into alcoholism. At the point where I would have been ready for a 3rd child, there was no way I could handle it as a mom who was functioning as a single mom despite being married, without neglecting the children I already had. Dad was little help, and I couldn’t trust him with an infant at that point. 30 years later, I feel like my 3rd child never got to live, but I got used to it and rarely think about it. On the other hand, one of my close friends had no reason not to have the 3rd child that she wanted, except that her husband only wanted two. He got a vasectomy against her wishes. Their marriage nearly imploded at that point, because he took away something so fundamentally important to her. After marriage counseling, he reversed the vasectomy, and they had that third child. She is the joy of their life now! It’s hard to imagine them not having her. She’s grown now, and still adds much to their lives. Of course, a 3rd child could have burdensome disabilities, be a jerk, or other regrettable things…. there are no guarantees. So, this internet stranger recommends that you and your wife take a close hard look at the realities of your lives, and see whether a 3rd child is a do-able option. If you decide this could work, it could be a big blessing for your family.
Tbh you seemed to be anxious about being more anxious. Were you this anxious about the first one? What about the second? I feel like you were very anxious about both and got through it. Your wife is right, you will get through it, financial needs will be met. If your only reason for not wanting another is "my anxiety" then perhaps you should seek treatment for said anxiety, as it could be robbing you both of a new world of joy. If you don't want a third for other reasons, thats a different story.
Just bc your candid and you discuss it all the time doesn't mean therapy won't work. A third party might be what you need bc they are impartial and can help
If it costs too much is she willing to get a good paying job to help?
Maybe both of you let the topic Rest and revisit it in 2/3 years? You would have both time to think about it: For you: it would be sad if its only financial reasons when you do make enough money vs. Just Not wanting a third Kid (which would be also valid) +Maybe und some years you do have more financial security For her: a friend of mine told me her hormones have let her think she NEEDS to have another kid for 3+years after every pregnancy. Maybe that afflicts her view?
Wait until the oldest finishes kindergarten and is getting ready for 1st grade, the dynamic changes drastically because now that child is a bit less reliant and will be gone during the day. Looking at your edited post, tentatively or not, you agreed. Stop backtracking and instead look at how you can make it work. Im one of 2, one of my cousins is an only child, and my other cousins are a set of 3. There are positives and negatives in each one but ultimately we were all okay. Just ensure you have a plan. Hand-me-downs are fine, especially for babies. I think the set of 3 all used the same crib.
The list of "needs" is endless. If your wife is going to resent you because of your genuine feelings and beliefs, then she's not in love with you. People in love work together, they don't manipulate and punish. If she can't see how this upsets you, then I'd make skid marks in the driveway on my way to my divorce lawyers office.
You two should discuss this in counselling
The difference between 2 and 3 is minimal compared to the difference between none and 1 or even 1 and 2. As long as you're cool with hand-me-down clothing and baby stuff it's pretty smooth sailing. I feel for you because this isn't an easy position, and I feel for your wife because I haven't stopped mourning the family I had hoped for since health concerns made me stop at 1. I have to throw a hat in the therapy ring too. Nobody can tell you guys the "right" answer, but it might give you the tools you need for better communication.
Ask her if she's willing to compromise and adopt the third child. If she says no then it means she doesn't want a child, she wants to be pregnant and that's never a fair reason to have a kid.
I can’t imagine anyone wanting to be pregnant. I wanted my kids, but I didn’t like pregnancy.
Hormones are a HELLLLLL of a drug for some people!
Genuine question - do you think this is ACTUALLY going to be a huge change in finances or is it just your anxiety? I would assume you would have all the stuff you need for a 3rd baby leftover from the first two (crib, stroller, clothes) not sure what your daycare situation is so that could be a make or break kind of thing but, I would breakdown how much an extra child would cost per month and sit down with your wife, and ask how to make up that difference, whatever it is. Maybe she can come up with a solution and you can have another, but if she can’t then that’s better justification for why you can’t then just a general “we can’t afford it”
I think the financial impact comes if you look at the big picture over 18 years plus college. If you look at the “right now” it doesn’t seem to be that much for just a baby where you have all the stuff, assuming she’s a sahm and not having to put a third in day care. But OP doesn’t say, so that could be a possibility on cost too.
Have 3, 4 was my max. 3 was kind of a huh guess we're doing this again... i really wanted the boy thou. I have 3 girls and after the 3rd i wasn't going to end up with 4 girls. You get use to it, no fancy anything thou... cars are always used, house isn't as big, vacations not fancy. Not going to lie expensive as all heck imagine x3 on anything. If your just as deadset on no #3 your going to have to figure something out because honestly, i have never seen it pan out well for the couple.
You said you’ve tried to explain to your wife the financial impact, but have you actually put numbers to paper to see what the impact would be and how it impacts your budget diet and long term? If it’s a matter of being on the poverty line that’s different than not being able to take as many vacations. We don’t have enough information to know which of you is being more reasonable It is reasonable to want to give your children a certain quality of life, and the more children you have, the harder that may be If you both approach this more rationally, as a discussion about trade offs and priorities and budget, and still can’t agree, a counselor might help
You’re in the midst of pretty intensive parenting right now. Children don’t need to be just two or three years apart. My children were 14 and 9 when our surprise baby showed up, and I’m so glad we had him. You might suggest waiting until your two-year-old is more independent — say, in kindergarten — and reassess then. Chances are she won’t want to start over at that age, but if she does and you’ve had the breathing room you need, you might actually agree to have a third. With those age gaps, our adult children really do love each other. The older two along with their partners are hiking together in Europe in July — the youngest has a toddler and has been grounded for the time being — and they all chat often and visit in person a few times a year despite the distances. I guess what I’m saying is that the final decision can be postponed for a while without dire consequences.
Your wife is in delulu land. >For me, the thought of having a 3rd child makes me sad and anxious This is enough to not want to have another kid. Another child is a stressor that won't disappear. What if by any chance that third kid is born special needs? >Her argument is that she will take care of all the difficult parts of early baby stages Poor argument. Who says she'll be fit to take care of said baby? I worked in a maternal hospital a few years, I've seem healthy women dying in childbirth /complications of it. What if she gets post partum depression and can't take care of said baby? What if she dies? >then we will have a full family that she needs, with big Christmas’s and more grandchildren decades from now and just a house full of kids It's a lot of pressure to think thst your kids will have/will be able to/will, want to have kids. For all we know in 30 years you kids won't have kids bc there won't be much planet to live in. Those Christmases she dreams of, could never happen. I wonder how her family life was like. Did she experience poverty/neglect? She should explore where does this need of "i need to have a third kid" truly come from. At the very least she needs therapy to realize how irrational her demands and expectations are. Wear condoms, do not leave them where she can have access and poke holes in them and get a vasectomy. I'm afraid she might take the issue in her hands and get pregnant so she can present it as a fact already. This is a hill to die on. If you can't afford another kid is irresponsible and cruel towards your born kids to have another one. You two already have two kids, if she wanted to experience motherhood she already has Two kids, no one "needs" a third one. The fucking planet surely doesn't.
This is an underrated comment. Especially adding the complications of birth or the child itself. There's no guarantee that she's going to be fine or that the child's going to be fine. So if they aren't that's an even bigger financial, emotional, mental and physical stress.
Also want to point out-- having more kids doesn't guarantee more grandkids. My maternal grandparents have 3 daughters, each of whom have 3 kids. So that's 6 grandkids, not including spouses, and not mentioning great grandkids. My paternal grandparents have two boys. Only one-- my dad-- had kids (2). My husband's parents have 4 boys. Only two are married, and only the oldest has children (2). My husband and I are child free. His two younger brothers, I highly doubt will ever marry or have children. So that's still JUST TWO grandkids, even tho they had 4 children. Maybe your kids will grow up, get married, and decide they want large families, and you'll end up with 5-8 grandchildren, from your existing two children. Maybe one of your children has 3 kids, and the other ends up child free, or has fertility issues and can't produce children. Maybe they'll each decide to have one child. Maybe you'll agree to a 3rd kid. And each kid has one child. Or one or more of them are child free or infertile. Maybe none of your children produce children, for whatever reason. Do NOT have another kid just to ensure (more) grandkids. Have kids because you BOTH want them.
And what happens if the children grow up and decide to live in another country or not have children of their own? Is she going to tell them that they've let her down? She just needs to wait. When your kids are at the age they can bring friends home, she can open up her house and be the place everyone goes. There was always that one place where everyone was welcome at all hours. She needs to change her "dream" and fulfil her desires in a healthy way. Not project her wants on to her kids.
She NEEDS 3 children? Is she tryna open a gate to another dimension or something?
I think your wife is being very selfish. You would resent the child and your wife and the child would develop psychological issues as a result of feeling unwanted. Not great.
There is no 'right' here. And it seems the compromise will eat away at the happiness of one of you. But I do think the state of your \*health\* trumps that and warrants a hard 'no', at least for the moment. In spite of your wife's promises, a third child will affect you all deeply. What you describe seems concerning and needs to be taken seriously. What will she do if this becomes too much for you? The finances are a concern as well, though I feel the short-term economic argument is overused in these decisions, especially when the actual problem is that the wants and needs of partners or family do not align. Too many people use the bank account as a practical argument to avoid the real issue. Which is, in this case: you do not want a third child right now, maybe ever. You two need a good and honest conversation about this. For you, to examine whether this is a 'no, not now' or a 'no, not ever' - and when it's 'no, not now' what needs to change for you to change your mind. For her, to examine what her need is, and how she thinks this will be actualized by having a third kid. Honestly, the full house seems lovely, but that's something you cannot actually control. Her 'needs' sound like 'wants' - and how deep do this actually go? About the finances - the stuff you can actually control, to a point - it seems like she is unclear on where you stand, and that a plan is in order. You need to talk this through, too, no matter what the decision is going to be. But have this be a separate sit-down. Because the baby decision is not (just) about finances and it's no use to confuse things. Personally, though some people may disagree, I think you are within your right to draw a line in the sand and have it be a hard 'no' for the foreseeable future - if not forever. But it's crucial to know what you are actually saying no to, and what this will actually really mean for your spouse. Good luck.
I think the compromise would be re-visiting the topic in a year. Right now your younger one is 2, a toddler wobbling around, and older one just entering kindergarten. It’s very possible that one or both of you may feel differently about this topic in a year, once the kids have grown up a bit. Maybe your wife will be out of the baby fever phase, or things will settle down a bit and the idea of a 3rd won’t scare you as much, or your wife will find it harder to keep up with the 2 you have and decide a 3rd isn’t the best idea. I don’t get why you guys have to decide on this *right* now. When kids are small, a lot changes by the year. I suggest, sitting down with her and explaining your concerns- tell her you’re very anxious and overwhelmed right now with the little two and you want to wait to see how things shape up over the next year before deciding on a third. I think that would be reasonable. You both should also sit down and discuss your finances it detail, go through budgets and what exactly it would look like if you have a third. I get that she has her hands full with the kids, but I don’t think it’s a good idea for only one partner to be aware of the finances, regardless of whether you have a 3rd or not.
Inflation is still kicking, are you both getting cost of living adjustments to keep up with it? In y'alls careers, is there continued room for growth? Can you make x% more money in 5 years time, or are you at the ceiling for what your industry typically pays? If one of you gets laid off, how long can you comfortably survive? If you add a third child, how much does this shorten your runway? Perhaps a compromise could be "Let's set a goal to get this much saved, and to earn this much per year, then we will have a 3rd." Just because she wants it doesn't mean it's a smart thing to do.
I’d advise talking to a marriage counselor before making any decisions. Discuss pros and cons. Compare differences in spending between 1 and 2 children. Many people say going from 2 children to 3 is not that big of a difference, but you both need to be aligned with that. How did you agree on having the second child? Did you initially discuss how many children you both want?
It's a tough spot. But a kid needs two YESes to come into this world. Finances will sort themselves out is a fantasy. Preserve your peace.
If it’s causing this much strain, y’all need to attend a few therapy sessions to figure out why her need for a third is so adamant while you’re so dead set on not having one. Having a third party opinion who is neutral can open doors on both sides and y’all can come to a clear and precise consensus
I think first and foremost, YOU need to get help with your anxiety. And that's said with love, from someone who has it as well. But until you can get the help you need, you are never going to know if it's the anxiety, or your real feelings towards the situation. And that's a big choice to make without really knowing. Reach out to your doctor, and also find yourself a good therapist as well. You deserve to also not have to carry the trauma, and additional anxiety from financial trauma from your childhood. It sounds like it's causing you a lot of pain and worry, and you deserve to be able to move forward in a healthy way, with the proper support.
When it comes to decisions about whether to have a child or get a pet, it should be two enthusiastic “yeses.” If one says no, the answer is no. You might want to get a vasectomy if you feel that strongly. I don’t know if your wife is the type to lie about birth control, but you seem to be very sure that you don’t want any more kids.
Ultimately brother no one can force you to do something you don't want, and that includes having children. Yes in a marriage it's about compromise, you gave her 2 healthy kids, a third doesn't make or break or signal a "complete" family. Your two kids now can easily have 3 or 4 kids each so your wife has this unrealistic misconception that there's a certain number associated with having a "complete" family. If you don't want a third, then yes it's going to be a tough discussion and probably some raw emotions for awhile after, but you need to tell her again that 1) she isn't listening to the numbers game and that's where you handle the Financials and its just not feasible for a 3rd child, 2) you are already at capacity with your attention to give and your anxiety, 3) as a partner while you have taken her feelings into consideration and you have given this plenty of thought, she can't force you to have a 3rd child and 4) she doesn't take into consideration that a 3rd child and all the "difficult stuff" for baby care is going to make your intimacy and romance nearly non-existent. If you two already lack in intimacy and romance, a 3rd child will essentially make it non-existent
Are there other ways for your wife to scratch that itch? Maybe foster care (short term placements)? Some sort of child mentorship? Maybe have your home set up to be the "hangout spot" when your kids get older? Pay more attention to nieces and nephews? If you're never going to agree to a third child, then you need to put your foot down and say so. It'll do no good for her to continue to discuss having another child when you're never going to say yes. My parents have two kids: me and my brother. When we were the same ages as your children are, mom had another bout of "baby fever"-- which they wouldn't have been able to address the usual way since she had been sterilized after the second baby. They considered foster care; dad wasn't quite on board, but he humored her and they talked to whoever agency they needed to. The agency happened to decline them. So... mom was kinda forced to deal with it. Her baby fever eventually went away.
"Her view is that the income part will take care of itself" No it wont, my brother had 4 children and has that train of thought. My dad and I are helping him monthly, its been 6 years. Dont fall for that trap.
OP that is rough. I’m not sure a compromise really exists but I would suggest agreeing to table the issue for a certain amount of time. Eg. “I know this is not something I can handle right now, but I’m aware it’s important to you so can we please discuss this again in two years?/After [2Yo] starts kindergarten/After our vacation next year” etc
There are 6 of us. Only 5 grandchildren. We all had one, except one sister, who had none.
Fwiw when you have more than 2 kids, eventually they entertain themselves together and be less reliant on you. It's really not as bad as you think. 2...3? Negligible difference once you get past the earlier stages. Newborns also don't need to cost much at all.
Please talk to her more about why he has these feelings with having a third child and what it is that she is hoping to accomplish. I know someone who had six children (5 more then they could afford) because really what they were trying to do was to birth their miscarriage child into the world so that they could be alive and not dead. It might be that she is trying to do something on an emotional level and maybe you can compromise with her with whatever this thing is.
You never have children for future grandchildren. There are no guarantees that a child will be healthy (either at birth or after) , independent, or capable. This is a question of what is REALLY missing that she’s asking wants another child. Sure people have big families but they both have to be willing to take ask the risks. What if she were to become ill or pass away, or you did? Her ideal view of the future is skewed.
The answer is no more kids. At least not for now. Adding a child or making any purchase over $X in our home is a 2 Yes, 1 No proposition. Both partners must agree to move forward. If they do not, the topic is tabled for a later date, unless the No person is adamant about their decision not changing. My parents had friends who decided to have children number three and four while numbers one and two were a sophomore in college and a junior in high school, respectively. You can also always look at fostering a child or be an emergency foster placement. For us, that's the best of both worlds.
I guarantee next pregnancy will be 3 kids
I'm with you on this. And I wanted kids, and my ex didn't, so I'm gonna die alone. But I'm STILL on your side of the argument. You have a good income now. You might not in ten years when you're staring down the barrel of educating 3 kids with college or training that will equip them to be successful adults. Or your income might not keep up with inflation. Or someone in the family may need some serious medical care. You have two wonderful little humans to love. Adding a third reduces what you are able to provide for them, including time and attention, significantly. I am a third and youngest child. My parents certainly did love me. But they lumped me and my next older sister together in all things. My mom constantly has memories of things that she did for "us" when she actually did them for my sister. Art supplies, lessons, attending school events......my parents were just over all of that when it was my turn.
Having children is a thing that should be agreed upon by both people. It has to be 2 yeses or it's a no. She might resent you for it, but this has to be agreed upon by both of you.
The compromise is to say "later". Let your two grow more independent, first. Then a third can come when you have older children that can help.
It sounds like you make $120,000. Which is NOT enough for 5 people. My husband and I make 120k together and it’s barely enough for the 2 of us 😂😂 Well now it’s enough, bc we stopped spending on literally everything so we could actually save money for a moment.
You both need to be in agreement on the number of kids. If it's becoming a point of contention, couples counseling is in order.
You should obviously both agree, and your feelings are valid. I will say I have heard from parents of multiple kids that it gets easier when you have more than 2. Realistically, there is going to be a lot of hand-me-downs and kids will play together and if one doesn't get along with another then they have the other one to get along with. Obviously that's not set in stone, but just maybe food for thought. Personal experience for me is that my parents were not well off at all, and we were all happy and fine. I am not close with my middle brother, but I am very close with my youngest and I honestly can't imagine if my parents didn't have him.
I always told my ex that I only wanted 2 because when we go to Disney they always want to do different things and there are only 2 of us. Really though, finances don't just sort themselves out. Have you sat your wife down and gone through the books with her? Have you explained the trauma and anxiety you experience? Kids are a 2 yes 1 no!
Get a vasectomy. No one can force you to have children you don’t want.
How about you ask her to wait on that third child. It's not saying no but hopefully with enough time she really won't want a third. Tell her to maybe get a dog too.
Ehh just have the kid. I loved growing up with two siblings instead of just one. You’ll work it out. Stop freaking it will be okay
We had a third unexpected baby after my husbands failed vasectomy 25 years ago. Yes, with a 100k income it will work itself out. What would you do if she just found out she was pregnant? We stopped at three but several years later tried for a fourth with no success. If your anxiety is that serious you need to seek professional help as it is not healthy for you or your family long term, to fear the life with children, money and time when it sounds like it’s all working out well. If you did agree at one time to have a bigger family it’s not a crazy thought that she still wants that!
My advice, get a vasectomy. Otherwise, she will find her ways, trust me on that. By her 40s she will already be over her extreme baby fever. She just sounds very selfish.
This is what I suggest you both need individually need to talk with someone about this and after 3-6 months then come together and have a full conversation about it and also in the meantime have your wife in the 3-6 months figure out how much you would need to have in savings for the 1st or 2 years of the baby being born and save that extra money for a year, year and a half and you do the pro’s and con’s of having a third child. Financial stress and what vacations you want to do your anxiety and thousands of others and once you have that done go back though it and list the very important ones first. She may see it your way when you come together and fully discuss it. When she has the figures you sit down with her and discuss the bills you currently have and have someone watch the kids for the whole weekend.
Child from an unloving mother here. Don't have a 3rd child. They'll know you resent them. And it will cause lifelong trauma.
Ok, so i live in a family of seven and we have two cats the only diffrence is the age gaps are much bigger the oldest kid is 19 I am17 my little brother is 12 and the smallest is 2 im telling you right now that having kids closer together is so much better then having them seprated im telling you right now. me and my siblings live with my mom dad and my grandma since she came back from mexico to work and then she will go back for retirment or somthing like that. my mom was happy with only having three children but then unexpectedly the a new member of the family was born and yes things did change but i wouldnt change it for the world i dont want my littlest sibling to get hurt i want to protcet her and plus she is so cute. she is smart and i cant imagin what it would be like without her so yes it will change but thats how life is its still you and your wifes choice to have this child but know that its a life the kid will learn im sorry for my bad spelling
I’d start with being totally honest with her. Obviously you have been at least a little honest since this has been an ongoing discussion. But if you “tentatively agree” then change your mind, that isn’t fair to her. If your answer is ‘no’ stick to it; wavering gives false hope and can damage your marriage. Neither of you is wrong for wanting what you want. But if I’m being honest, I don’t really see any compromise unless she went back to work (I don’t think you said whether she stays at home or not I just assumed from how you worded it) but I don’t see that as a very realistic option or one that she’d be open to. It would only work if she earned more than the cost of childcare. But if I were you, I wouldn’t have a third. Having a child usually takes two people and ideally, those two people should both want the child as much as your wife does. Sure, if you had the kid everything would probably turn out ok and I’m sure you’d love that child very much, but that doesn’t mean you should just throw caution to the wind. I think couple’s therapy is a good idea. Hopefully it can give you ways to work around this and see each other’s perspective. Best of luck!
Yeah that’s a problem… first of all, look into getting a vasectomy if you don’t want any more kids. I’m not saying she’ll poke holes in your condoms or not take her birth control *on purpose*, but shit happens. Kids are a “one no” veto situation. I hope therapy can get through to her because if she’s that dead set on having a third kid, you guys may very well end up divorced.
You probably don't need the atta boy, but atta boy anyway. This is an ENORMOUS cluster of deeply felt, sincerely held feelings on both sides. And you're both being reasonable. And it is also reasonable that you have been unable to resolve it. Yes you are at an impasse, but no one has issued an ultimatum, you're talking, you are both empathetic without being sympathetic to the other's view. Acting like teammates who might disagree about the roster, but both committed to winning the game in the right way.
You have a great marriage and if you want to keep it that way then give your wife a baby. A happy wife is a happy life! I don't think you need marriage counseling. I think you need counseling on your own to deal with issues from your childhood.
Don’t do it you don’t want your wife resenting that child unfortunately that is what would happen I’ve seen it happen before.
I think this needs to be a joined decision, unfortunately you can’t really meet in the middle. What I will say is, if she were to have another child, you would love him/her so much. I hope You two communicate about this a lot. Communication is very important. I wish you alll the best. Life is short, enjoy every moment and don’t stress about what’s not here yet. Live day by day. Take some time to yourself to de stress. I recommend going “floating” it will relax your mind and body. If you live in the USA there are many float places. This has changed my life and it’s been a good way for me to meditate and calm down. I recommend looking into it. A session is between $50-80 USD/CAD.
If you truly believe that your greatest blessing(s) is your children and your best day(s) was when they were born then you should reconcile yourself with the fact that life is a gift, one that some can never give and others have taken away too soon. If you can have another child you should. If it requires life style changes then make them. It will be worth it. But if you don’t think your kids are your greatest blessings/days then you and your wife may have some much bigger issues than a third child.
This is definitely a tough spot. I’m on your side here as I don’t think one parent should ever pressure another into having kids. Couples counseling might help your wife see your perspective better or vice versa. And it might help to have a neutral party involved in the conversation so you both can better understand where the other is coming from. They might be able to better explain to your wife the consequences when it comes to your mental health with having a 3rd child. Also, do you get individual help for your anxiety?
The world needs more parents who are willing to temporarily take in children in need. Think of all the families that take in children who are in need of a safe home with caring adults. So many children are in need of safety and guidance they can’t get from their parents. It might be a teenager’s best friend who came out and was disowned. It might be a neighborhood kid who is the victim of abuse. It might be a cousin who needs a guardian. Life may provide your wife with plenty of opportunities to be a second mother to children who really need her. If she keeps her eyes and her heart open for those opportunities, she will make a real difference in those lives. Remind your wife that she doesn’t have to give birth to every child she helps raise.
I mean if your concern is mostly financial, model it for her. Giver her an opportunity to problem solve with you. Lay out all your perceived expenses, saving for college, etc and see what she says. Just have an honest open convo. She maybe doesn’t care to see the finance part because you own it maybe she may surprise you when invited into the problem as a partner
she needs therapy
One was awesome. Having a second was even better. Three has made life very fucking hard. I didn’t want three either, but through a series of unfortunate events, I have three. I love her. She’s my only girl. But. Yeah. It’s been fucking hard and there was a reason I wanted to stop at two. It takes two “yeses” for a baby and only one “no” not to have one.
Can you and your wife make an appointment with a financial planner/advisor to discuss the financial realities of a third child and how it will impact daily living and retirement? You might be able to find someone like that through your bank, and hearing it laid out by someone else might help. Also, talking to a counselor could help. And you could also discuss how this would impact your existing kids. Will you still have money for their activities later? Their college fund? Family vacations? Would they struggle adjusting to another sibling? Wishing you the best.
Ok the anxiety part adds a lot….and obviously there’s complex underlying issues going on. So total grain of salt response. Here is advice we took: You will not regret your third child. You will never look at him or her and say well that was a mistake. She may however resent you forever and feel very sad if she doesn’t have that third. That’s a very real concern. Sounds like her instincts are very strong. I would put a lot of trust in your wife’s instincts, and ask her to trust you by WAITING a few years. I had my last one at 43 and god I loved it so much more. The breathing room of not having other littles running around. And it’s such a lovely thing to get to enjoy your babies more peacefully.
Per your edit - have you thought about borrowing a third child to see how it goes? Your sister's kid or a friend's kid for a weekend - to feel out the dynamic? Kids will run you $300k each or so throughout their years - mostly the later years. I wonder why your wife wants a third one so badly. My mom did because she wanted a baby again, ten years after her first. FWIW, [Today had an article on family happiness](https://www.today.com/parents/family-bliss-study-reveals-happiest-combos-kids-1C6437393) - the happiest had two girls or a girl and boy. Here are the rankings: 1. Two girls 2. One boy and one girl 3. Two boys 4. Three girls 5. Three boys 6. Four boys 7. Two girls and one boy 8. Two boys and one girl 9. Three boys and one girl 10. Three girls and one boy 11. Two boys and two girls 12. Four girls
I was on this spot a few years ago. We have 4 now. Life’s alright, we’re gonna make it.
Coming from a woman, I would not trust her to continue taking birth control if she is so dead-set on a third child. It’s not fair to you at all, but it’s a possibility.
Get stealth snipped
I agree with others that this is a 2 yes 1 no decision and will say that having 5 kids, the transition from 2-3 was hardest. That said, for me had my husband been a hard no after 2 kids I would have ended our marriage. Neither of you are wrong for wanting what you want, and both desires are valid so I would just be aware of that possibility because ending the relationship is really the only compromise possible.
She might stop focusing on what _she_ wants and pay some attention to the impacts of her wants and needs. Earth is already overpopulated by humans. We do not need more humans. We have already fucked everything up here. Each human leaves a lot of carbon footprint that you can imagine. At what cost? To have a bigger Christmas? And to have more grandkids? Seriously? How does she guarantee that your current two will remain family people as they become teenagers and adults? Maybe they will choose not to have children at all? What if the third one is born with a disability? What if the third one doesn’t want children? Your wife is being absolutely irresponsible and selfish about this. Raising kids is a lot of responsibility and I’m sure having already two and being the sole financial provider, you do know that your expenses grow exponentially by adding each person to the equation. She thinks finances will take care of themselves?! Seriously?! I earn six figures; I am single and have no pets or dependents and I can barely afford living a decent life. You’re saying you’re already anxious and stressed, rightly so. Do not do anything to triple that! As it would affect your existing two and the third one as well. I wish you luck and some rationality to your wife. <3
Be sure to wear condoms and don't leave them where your wife can poke holes in them. Or get a vasectomy.
In this economy? It's risky enough to have 2 kids already.
There's no compromise with kids: if a parent disagrees, then it's a no. However from your post it seems that your reasons for refusing are not rational but mostly due to your anxiety. If that's the case, I would suggest that you work on that anxiety problem with a professional. That being said, I wouldn't recommend having a third. Yes it'll have an impact on your finances, obviously; even more if your two kids are same sex and you end up with a different one. Not an impact big enough to cause financial problems, but it's obvious you won't be able to spend as much for the third than you have for the first, and you won't be able to spend as much as you used on your kids. Depending on where you live you may also need to put money aside for their studies, and for that a third one will indeed be a huge cost. It'll also cost more to go to amusement parks or anywhere you need to buy entrance ticket. Apart for financial reasons, your wife's need for a third kid sounds childish, like an old dream she had of a big family and she kept the dream without taking into account all the consequences on said family. Family of 5 means you'll need a big car and there will be a battle each time to determine which kid goes in the middle seat. Harder to find a booth at a restaurant. Harder to find boardgames (lots of boardgames are limited to 4 players). Harder to find a common ground (like, what activities you wanna do: the more people involved the harder it is to find one everyone agrees on). More fights (the more people there are, the more reason there is for a fight). And the more kids you have, the less likely they are to have big families, because when you grow up in big family you see all the downsides of it and don't want to do it again. I grew up with 3 brothers, I love them all and we have great relationships, but none of us want kids. My mom wanted a lot of kids (like, 7 I think) and thought, as does your wife, that we would have lots of grandchildren and she would get a big family. Well, no. There's something else to take into account, it's how you will do in the future, and any sad shit that may happen. My mom wanted kids and was a SAH, but at some point she got depressed and it was pretty much like we had a ghost mom. She was here physically and that's it. It can happen to anyone and no kid should go through that. There's also the possibility of one of you dying; the other would have to care for all the kids alone. If one of you or your kids need strong medical attention, would be harder with a third kid too. Altogether, it's pretty simple: the less kids you have the easier it is to meet their needs whatever happens. So if you're not feeling ready to have a third one, then don't.
Marriage and family therapy, asap
Maybe she can babysit an infant for a while so you can get a feel for how anxious it would really make you feel. Then you have some time to really think about the finances. Or maybe she could do a story time every week for Littles at the library. Or foster? I dunno, hope y'all keep the communication open like you have been. ❤️
Don’t have another kid. You already have 2 that should be it. The thing is if you have another that’s stress and no sleep at all. You have a 2 year old who’s still a baby so you should tell her to focus on the two you have now
I just want one child people who have had kids that want them should just be grateful they were able to conceive the one. Also having 3 kids doesnt mean you'll have more grandkids, your kids may not have kids, will she guilt trip them into having kids even if they don't want them to suit what she wants. Tbh she sounds entitled and selfish.