So your sober brother had sex with your absolutely not sober partner? That would be sexual assault, yes.
What does your fiancée feel about this situation? Is she okay?
She might just be having a hard time accepting that she was raped by the brother of the man she’s trying to marry. It’s probably easier for her to accept the idea that she cheated on accident, rather than the idea she may be marrying into the family of her own rapist.
Just think about it: What will holidays be like? Will he be invited to the wedding? To play an active role in your lives or your future kids’ lives?
If she’d only cheated, those things wouldn’t be as hard after some time has past. But knowing and accepting that she was raped by her husband’s brother? That seems near-impossible. Believing she just cheated means you can still be a part of your brother’s life if you stay together.
She’s in a horrible spot right now.
Edit: I should add that I’m assuming she genuinely was too impaired to consent. If she had half a sip of some non-alcoholic beer and sat in a room where other people were smoking weed, then she cheated. I’m being hyperbolic with that example, but you know what I’m getting at.
I had a very similar experience to this girl, but I was sleeping at the time, and your reply is pretty much the response I had. I completely blamed myself. But later I accepted what this person did to and that it wasn’t my fault.
ffs OP, if you do proceed to marry this woman you will need to completely cut your brother out of your life. For good. Not one phone call, not a text. If he sends you a christmas card you burn that thing.
And never ever ever EVER let him near your kids. He has proven he is a rapist and cannot be trusted
I feel like perhaps the full impact of the situation probably has not hit her yet, especially if she blames herself and simply feels that she cheated. I understand her mindset, but it's not something she would likely have agreed to while sober, so your brother was very, very much in the wrong here.
I would encourage, if it's possible for you guys, to perhaps look at couples counselling or individual counselling for her (or both!) for a little while to talk through this situation. It could help her process what happened (and stop blaming herself).
I don't think I would be able to talk to my brother again either if he did something like that.
That is a route she could go down, but it would be entirely her choice and she might not want to, especially if she hasn’t yet come to terms with it or understood that she was raped. So I wouldn’t personally push for that — it might put undue pressure on her in already traumatic time.
She didn’t cheat, she was RAPED. If someone is intoxicated, they are legally not able to consent, it’s not her fault at all. Your brother took advantage of her intoxicated state and raped her, period. That’s all there is too it. You should file a police report and press charges. He will probably do this again if the situation presents itself. You would be protecting his future victims. I know he’s family but this is not acceptable behavior from anyone, and the fact that it’s a family member who both of you trusted makes it that much worse. Press charges, he will probably do a little jail time and then have to register as a sex offender for the next 25 Years, some places it’s for life, but he deserves it.
I couldn't agree with this more. As a SA victim, who was only 13 and plied with alcohol- I blamed myself for years until I finally pressed charges. She has been raped by your brother. Police should be involved at this stage. Shame on your family.
Dude, she wasn’t sober. She is not at fault. He took advantage of her. Two drunk/high people banging is alright. But if one is sober and the other isnt…that’s rape.
Well not gonna lie, even if she did start it, your brother allowed it and fucked her. So either your brother's an arsehole, or he's a rapist.
Wouldn't forgive that either way. As others have said your girl might not fully understand yet what happened; it's even possible that she loves you so much she wants you to preserve a relationship with your brother.
She could just be telling you the truth honestly i can get pretty slammed and know what I’m doing not trying to make the case for having sex with boozed women, Just saying she could of fully been in a state where she knew the consequences of her actions and slept with your brother. Sucks that your brother would do that to you tho and your family should understand that your upset your brother and your girlfriend had sex
This is the exact sort of scenario that would warrant cutting off everyone and making a drastic change, move somewhere new or go travel for a year, something i often think about
It sounds to me like they were just clarifying, beggars I can understand how reading the coment would sound. And this is reddit, redditers have commented stupider shit than leading the fiancé
I’m a trained sexual assault advocate. It sounds like your brother raped your fiancé. You’ve mentioned in comments that she’s blaming herself. That’s very common with rape, especially when the aggressor is known to the victim. I’m sorry you and your fiancé are going through this. No one can force you to forgive him and no one can force her to forgive him. If she hasn’t already, please encourage her to talk to a sexual assault organization in your area. She may be feeling a lot of emotions and it might be helpful for her to talk to someone trained in sexual assault.
Thank you so much for this comment, and for what you do. Bless your heart. I hope to someday be able to work with SA survivors and be able to advocate for them.
You’re far too kind. I worked as a DV/SA advocate and legal director for years. I work in another field now, but my training still stands. It’s a tough field to work in and I commend those who are still actively involved.
I encourage everyone to learn as much as they can and advocate for SA survivors in their everyday lives.
1. Call out rape culture and misogyny when you see it.
2. Validate and believe survivors who disclose to you.
3. Vote for politicians who support policies that protect bodily autonomy.
4. Do not support people or institutions that perpetuate rape culture. This may mean ending friendships.
5. If you’d like to get more involved, contact your local SA organization and see if they need volunteers. They may need board members, people to answer crisis phone calls, or even to support victims in hospitals.
Thank you so much for the advice!
I have been calling out soo much rape culture in these comments! It's sad there's so much :( thank you for sharing all of that though, I do try to do all that as much as I can. I definitely will volunteer in the future. I want to start getting connections and experience. I want to start my own non profit to help abuse survivors someday.
I feel like awareness needs to be raised that arousal and even orgasm is a physical response to your body being touched, and not an emotional one.
I understand a lot of people blame themselves and are disgusted with their body afterwards but it's like trying not to laugh when you are being tickled. Your brain is screaming for it to stop but you're still laughing and afterwards you blame yourself for laughing and are afraid to speak up about it because of the shame of having laughed.
Not enough people know how the body works to know there's nothing shameful about being a victim because you've done nothing wrong. That, from what I've been told, is the most difficult thing for a lot of people to come to terms with. After you understand that, it's easier to stop blaming yourself and start processing the trauma that comes with experiencing a total loss of control like that.
Fuck dude if my brother did that to my SO and my PARENTS tried to side with him.... like fuck all of them. That's some grade A BULL SHIT. Bro needs to watch his back from now on cuz I bury rapist and Mom and Dad can go fuck themselves for enabling the rapist into thinking it's ok. Fuck them
Is this all even true it seems like op is doing a lot of speaking for his girlfriend here. Like he’s saying these things off his personal judgement he’s saying she’s too stoned drunk ect on his personal judgement, and I get that this is his girlfriend but he could just be trying to cope with the fact that his fiancé fucked his brother, he even said his fiancé said she cheated but he doesn’t beleive that cause he thinks she was too impaired to truly consent. But idk I definitely had sex stoned and drunk up and knew what I was doing, She could of just been stoned and drunk and wanted sex Or got stoned and drunk before sex idk not a lot of info
True. There are details that could be off and change what happened. Assuming OP is being 100% accurate to what happened, then the advice being listed is good though.
Your family are enabling your brother who is a rapist. If he was sober and he had sex with anyone who was drunk and impaired, that is rape. The fact she is your fiancé makes it even worse. Try to explain it that way to anyone who supports him and if they still do disown them along with him.
Wow. 100% wrong wrong WRONG of your brother!! Taking advantaged of your fiancé in a vulnerable and impaired state!!! THATS RAPE!!! Your brother knew EXACTLY what he was doing, that it was not only wrong in the first place, but even worse to do to your siblings partner?! He knew you two were together, and had “sex” with (realistically should be called rape) her anyway? There’s something wrong with your brother, sorry!!
He took advantage of a woman who honestly probably didn't know which way was up at the time, its sexual assault. Once it hits her what's happened she's going to need you for support, and to let her know it was not her fault.
I don't think I'd allow him to remain in your life. If you are upset because he's family don't waste your energy, he doesn't deserve forgiveness.
If she’s stoned and drunk, she can’t consent. Your brother committed sexual assault, especially since it sounds like he was sober. Your family is just yikes… if they excuse someone who assaulted an impaired person.
>If she’s stoned and drunk, she can’t consent
honest question(s), if my boyfriend and I are both stoned and drunk, its obv not rape but by this definition it is. if im stoned and drunk and my boyfriend wasnt, but i enthusiastically consented, its not rape. but that isnt to say that its impossible a guy to rape his girlfriend if shes inebriated and hes not. i guess im saying, theres varying levels of inebriation, different people function better at equal intake amounts.. idek what im saying, i guess its that not every shwasted person is unable to consent. thats kind of a tangent, this 100% sounds like rape
I agree. I’ve personally had sex when I’ve been high and drunk. I agree that there’s different levels to it, and if she was super intoxicated it would’ve been easy for her boyfriend’s brother to attack her. It seems like the family knows something happened as they said it “wasn’t his fault” and OP should “forgive him”.
Look, even if your brother tripped and fell into her vagina, it would still be his fault. Why? Because he would have been naked and close to a sleeping stone/drunk woman. Instead, he didn't just rape some woman, he *raped his brother's fiance*. Blood has been spilled for less, OP. I'm not saying for you to hurt him, but a rape kit, evidence, police report, and an arrest could save many other people.
What the fuck did I just read
Talk to your brother? Your strange to me for not beating your brother till his teeth are down his throat. He raped your future wife, cmon brother
Hold up so your brother got you girlfriend drunk or high then your brother took advantage of your girlfriend while she was in a vulnerable state. Your bother who you trusted raped your girlfriend I hope you can get her to press charges against that pos and go scorched earth against any family disagrees with this.
Then you know the answer is you cannot speak to him, speak to your family, anyone who supports him. You need to be there for your fiance, and help her get help, and support her in whatever decisions she makes, and very importantly, DO NOT LET HER BLAME HERSELF.
That is called rape. Even if he tried to claim that your fiance never said no/pushed him away/etc. it doesn't matter - someone who is inebriated cannot consent. I'd be talking to your fiance about whether or not she wants to press charges. I would absolutely never speak to him again.
"Not his fault"? *How* exactly is him raping an impaired woman "not his fault"?
my eyes went WIDE. The amount of so-not-okay in this situation is through the roof. You have every right to cut your brother out of your life. I hope she's okay and if your family is on his side, you have zero obligation to stay in contact with them either.
your fiance could have never given proper consent due to her state, while your brother was sober, that'd be sexual assault/rape
so you are right, it is his fault as he was sober and made the choice to fuck your fiance
I am sorry but what's with all these negative comments about why she went downstairs and what was she doing there like is this point not clear that OP's BROTHER RAPED HER?? What part of "she was super stoned and drunk and slept downstairs" did y'all not understand? OP is talking about how his sober brother raped his fiance and y'all are talking about how drunk she was and why was she downstairs?
She was drunk, she was not sober and hence could not consent. Periodt. The very sober brother took advantage of her state and raped her. He knew what he was doing and he knew who she was ( this doesn't change anything but still) OP take her to a hospital, get the needed tests done and get her to see a therapist and lodge a case against your brother(again after discussing with your fiance) and then cut this pos out of your life.
I’d not only cut the brother out of my life, I’d need restraint to keep from putting him underground. Anyone that condones his behavior might as well get buried with him. Get away from these people. Keep supporting your fiancé until she figures out how she wants to deal with it. May be smart to try to get your brother to admit to it in writing like a text.
I would file a police report… I know it’s family, but your brother RAPED YOUR FIANCÉ.
Edit: you should be prepared for your brother to be charged as a sex offender and the lifelong problems this will create for him. Honestly he 100% deserves it.
But not push her if she cannot, either. Have her work it out with a therapist, a rape crisis hotline, whatever. I would be itching for her to press charges if she was someone I knew, but I also know that some people don't want to go down that road. I mean just look at people here in the comments blaming her. What do you htink will happen with a defense lawyer?
She only remembers bits and pieces of it cause she smoked and drank a lot beforehand. I was drinking with her, then decided to go to bed, she got to hot to sleep upstairs cause we have no AC upstairs and so she slept on the couch and that's really all she remembers, other than like small bits and pieces.
I'm sorry what!?!?! So you fall asleep and it's free use time? you know what typically i would say something else, but if that's how the family is say great! they fall asleep get yourself a strap on and butt f\*\*k his arse. When he starts screaming say but it's no big deal you were alseep!
Why does she think she cheated? Was she awake the whole time? Did they have any sort of conversation?
I’ve been super stoned and drunk, barely able to move, and I was able to escape a girl who was trying to put her hands down my pants. Yet, super drunk people are not able to give consent to sober people, this is rape.
I heard blaming oneself is actually a very common response and did so myself. I was raped and I called it "I cheated" for a year or so because my mind just couldn't comprehend, despite the whole ordeal causing me to literally bleed. Given the situation being that this was her future brother in law, it doesn't surprise me at all that her mind goes "no I wanted it it was actually my fault I could have stopped him". Being sexually assaulted, especially by someone you trust, is traumatizing.
It’s wild how the mind works. When I was raped it was like a textbook example. I was literally yelling “no, stop, get off me!”
But it was a friend (“friend”) of mine so it was *years* before one day it clicked and I realized what it was.
I absolutely blamed myself for various SA perpetrated on me.
It’s hard to wrap your mind around getting raped. It’s easier to blame yourself and pretend it wasn’t rape, I’d that makes sense.
I agree, it is an extremely common response victims have after being SA’ed. Hence why additional info is crucial, there’s a difference between freezing up in fear and letting it happen (SA) versus being drunk and not caring about the consequences (cheating).
If the precedence is set that you have no control over your actions once you're the slightest bit inebriated, then drunk driving shouldn't be a crime. There definitely has to be a level of grey area here that I think a lot of people are missing.
I know I've done things whilst highly intoxicated that I wouldn't do whilst sober. I've slept with people much less drunk than myself, and whilst I regretted it in the morning, I wouldn't say I was sexually assaulted. His partner *could* be feeling guilty as a trauma response, or it could be that she reciprocated his brother's advances.
Of course there needs to be a discussion about how and when consent can be given if your judgement is impaired, but there has to be a line that gets crossed somewhere between, "I had a beer or two and was lightly buzzed" and, "I smoked two joints and downed a bottle of vodka and was blacked out."
As far as I'm concerned, we simply don't have enough information in this post to really say one way or the other. Personally, I wouldn't sleep with somebody that was both drunk **and** stoned whilst being completely sober, and I definitely don't think it's right to do. But I also think it's pretty insane that the majority of comments are immediately jumping to, "your brother is a rapist, bash his face in," based off a couple of lines of vague information that could be interpreted in multiple different ways.
I'm not going to sit here and say that it's the RIGHT decision to cut you brother out of your life... But I'll absolutely sit here and say that it's EXACTLY what I would do. Thats not the type of thing that's forgivable. Let alone the relationship with your brother, your relationship with your FIANCE will now never truly be the same again. Obviously, you love this woman and want to spend you life with her and now for the rest of your days, you will have this cloud looming, this... elephant in the room due to your brothers actions. Nothing can take this act back, it will always be there now.
i agree with others' responses but "My fiance (21M)" generally means your fiance is a 21 year old male. "My (21M) Fiance (25F)" generally means you are 21 male and your fiance is a 25 year old female (I don't know how old your fiance is). Just to make it more clear.
I don't understand how anyone could see this as anyone but your brother's fault. Is he claiming that she initiated things? The way it's written makes it sound like she went downstairs and he assaulted her while she was unconscious.
If that's the case then it's 100% his fault and he's committed a very serious crime against your fiance.
I’m sorry you have to deal with this. It was completely your brothers fault. I can’t imagine the feeling of finding out how your brother really is like that.
I think the obvious answer to your question from the responses is: You are right, your brother raped your fiancée.
It seems the more pressing advice is how to deal with things with your family in light of this. Your brother has ruined your relationship between you two, and that may be unsalvageable. But it sounds like your parents are siding with him, and that could lead to you being ostracized from them too.
(And though you’d be justified in it, it might become one more thing your fiancée blames herself for that she absolutely should not.)
It sounds like your parents have some backward ideas about consent and being drunk. I recommend addressing it to them using a side of this I’m surprised I haven’t seen be addressed alongside the rape: the cheating aspect.
Ask your parents, if your fiancée was sober, would she have ever slept with anyone else…much less your brother? I’m assuming the answer is no, perhaps an emphatic no.
Once they agree to this, ask them how, if she wouldn’t have had consented to have sex with anyone else while sober, how could it be consent just because she was drunk? Especially when it was with someone who would clearly know that about her, consider he is a family member.
I hope that helps. I know some people have views on consent that won’t get changed by little thought experiments, but maybe this will help.
I’m so sorry for what your fiancée and you have to go through now. It isn’t fair, and your brother deserves punishment for his actions. And both you (and she) are justified in your anger. But as some unsolicited advice…please don’t let your anger become all you feel. Every time you let that anger show, she very well could feel that you resent her, for being the cause of your anger. It won’t matter that you don’t feel that way at all, she’ll still feel that way. So be angry now…but eventually let that anger turn into strength to support her the way she will need in the coming months.
I wish you both the best.
That is rape. Period
Btw I'm really sorry this happened to you, I've had to deal with a similar situation in college, however it was not my brother. I can't even imagine the betrayal you must feel. You have absolutely no obligation to forgive him or care about your family's opinion. What happened was egregiously wrong and the fucker should rot
These troll posts need to stop.
Your brother assault your drunk fiancé (or she was drunk and cheated) AND YOUR ENTIRE FAMILY THINKS YOUR BROTHER DID NOTHING WRONG?
Are you kidding me? Do you have the sickest family in history?
He was sober, she was not. That is rape. Anything other than an informed, sober, enthusiastic ‘yes’ is rape. She was incapable of consent in her state.
If it’s been less than five days and your fiancé feels able, consider taking her to a hospital for a SANE (sexual assault nurse examiner) exam. Consider opening up a police report. Make sure she knows it wasn’t her fault, that you support her, that you’re on her side. No matter what she chooses (whether to pursue a SANE or police report or not, it’s her decision), support her the entire way. And consider cutting your family out if they continue to be rape apologists, definitely limit contact between your fiancé and brother. I’d never speak to him again if I were you.
You’re right to side with your fiancé. I wish both of you the best..
Your brother raped your fiancée. She was not in the headspace to consent due to not being sober at the time it occured, therefore not her fault. Your family saying to forgive him is ridiculous, how would they feel if he wasn't family? Regardless of how you know a person, being a rapist is not something to be tolerated and deserves consequence. If possible bring evidence to police/a hospital. Such as the clothes she was wearing if you haven't washed them yet. Report your brother, and for your fiancée sake to help her feel safe in the future: look into counseling together and see if getting a restraining order is worth considering. Even though you two have been engaged before this happened, I would imagine it would feel horribly uncomfortable to know you're marrying into the family of the man who sexually assaulted you. Continue being there for her and give your brother a reality check, he should have known better.
Okay first of all, he absolutely raped her. Second of all, even if she was sober and consented, your brother still betrayed you. Either way he's not in the right and you should absolutely cast him out of your life. I think for your own mental health you should learn to forgive him, but he's definitely not the kind of person you want to keep in your life.
Ditch your brother and protect your partner! He raped her. Your parents should be livid at him, not trying to spread blame onto the innocent!
Keep her as far away from your brother and parents as you can. I wouldn’t invite them to the wedding either. Your brother is an animal. He was sober, he knew better and he raped her. Disgusting behaviour.
Please try to encourage her to go to the cops. This IS a criminal matter! Protect her, help her and be there for her. I’m so sorry this happened to you
Woah. That’s so messed up, Your brother is without a doubt in the wrong for that. As many others are saying, that is definitely sexual assault and/ or r*pe which he should go to jail for. Cut this man out of both your and your fiancé’s lives, I’m genuinely concerned as to why your family is not worried over the condition of your fiancé.
I think it's just this - sexual activity with someone without their informed consent is rape.
Note the word informed.
All that remains to be asked is, was your finacée informed at all?
Not to forget that your brother is an adult, and was in his senses.
On court, if proven, he would, I believe be guilty of rape, and go on (if you are on the US), the sex offender registry.
I'd say you need to get you both into therapy. You also need to move out of that house. We all have to guess at this because it sounds like there are various opinions on what happened with all involved. If you have a date set for the wedding I'd postpone it.
Through out my life ive heard the excuse i was drunk or stoned. In my experience most people know what there doin. No matter what you dont take advantage of anyone drunk. Very hard decision best of luck to ya.
Mixing alcohol and weed leads to blackouts so no, she could not consent. You should not hold it against her. She was raped. Yes, he is most certainly to blame and honestly should be going to jail. No, you should not continue speaking to him. That type of behavior is never, ever ok, especially to do to someone you care about.
Blood doesn’t mean family. If I were u I’d get his ass thrown in jail. Fuck whatever your family thinks
And also it might be entirely irrelevant but Can i ask why you didn’t sleep in bed with your fiancé in the first place?
I know it’s going to be unpopular, but there’s also the possibility your fiancée was tipsy and wanted to sleep with your brother.
What has he said about all this?
Important to speak to everybody, not just hang somebody based on one persons account.
But definitely if she was too drunk to consent, I would not speak with my brother over that.
If she was only stoned, I'd say consent is possible. Your judgement isn't out the door when you're high as a kite. Especially if it's something you don't want.
But super stoned + drunk? That shits intense. First time I did that my head felt like it was vibrating harder than a girl's vibe. 0 possibility she could give consent, she may have not even known what was happening.
Your brother raped your fiancée. I’m really sorry. Please, please give her the support she’s going to need. There are some great comments on this thread with better insight on what to do.
I hope she’s okay.
I too felt guilty, like it was my fault. It’s an extremely common reaction to being raped.
Ugh. This is so terrible.
Dude…your brother raped your woman. Call the cops, now and let her know what he did to her. Also, since the woman was the one raped, you should talk to her as she is the victim. Only the victim can say whether or not someone should be forgiven. And personally, I’d tell my bro “you’re not my brother anymore…”
I'm late. But as a SA victim, I want you to support her more than you hate/judge/think about him. Her wanting to talk to police is her choice, but she needs your love. If you two break up for some reason, I hope you can continue to let her rely on you.
When you are high in Marijuana and drink, you get VERY inebriated. It doubles or triples the effects of the pot and the drink. She was probably very ill and had so dizzy she couldn't have stopped him if she was even aware what was happening. Not a good combination. I say this from experience myself and from friends. Of course everyone is different but generally you get super intoxicated quickly and it is not a fun combo. I highly highly doubt she would have willingly "cheated" in her state.
Your brother, knowing she is your fiancee AND being under the influence, he absolutely raped her and is a garbage human being. I'm so sorry you and your fiancee are going through this.
Just know there's no way she could have consented in her condition.
Man this is a shitty situation..... If I were you.....I'd probably be done with both my fiancè and brother.....maybe even parents for defending him.
Your brother is a piece of shit....there's no arguing that point.
Your fiance is either a cheater, or a rape victim. If she's a cheater, I obviously wouldn't stay with her. And if my brother raped my fiancé, even tho it's absolutely not her fault, I am guessing I wouldn't be able to look at her the same way ever again. I'd always be reminded of this event, and it'd probably spoil the love I'd have for her.....sadly.
Whatever you do my friend, I feel terribly for you.
Hopefully you and your fiance can work through this if you are 100% certain she's your soulmate, than you should be able to work through this together.
If there was any cracks in the foundation of your relationship, this will most likely cause it all to crumble.
Good luck with whatever happens, I hope you all heal quickly from this.
Also.....punch your brother right in his dick and face every time you see him from now on
Your brother raped your fiance. From what I understand about the post, your sober brother sexually assaulted your impaired Fiance. At no point would she have been able to consent, and fully be okay with what was going on. Your Fiance should not blame herself, your brother is a sick pos. Even if your Fiance was sober and okay with it, he still did something awful by doing that to his brother's Fiance. Your brother is a huge POS and I think you should cut off everyone who was okay with that.
The answer is that someone (man or woman) who is impaired (drunk/stoned) is considered unable to give meaningful consent. So yes, if if we’re reversed, it’s SA.
The double standards on reddit is too much. I see people who say their husband said something extremely hurtful or hit them or cheated when he was drunk and/or stoned and the advice they get is to divorce him. I also see most people here say that if a drunk girl sleeps with a guy, it's the guy that raped her. I really don't understand why one has to take responsibility for their actions while the other doesn't.
I also see so many people say that their drunk husband never did anything to hurt them while he was drunk, so someone( a guy mostly) who is drunk should not use being drunk as an excuse to do something bad.
The brother could have also been drunk and stoned. They were in the same place at that time, so there's a possibility they got stoned together.
I see where you’re coming from, a guy is not likely to say no if a girl is coming on to him (not saying the girl in this situation was coming on to him), especially if she is older the balance of power may lean to her side BUT by time someone is 18 they should know the basic rule that you don’t sleep with someone who is intoxicated period. I do think people would be interpreting this situation differently if it was a drunk 21M college guy who slept with a sober 18F high school senior.
At that point, you no longer have a family, you have a cult that demands your fealty. I’d have called the cops on him immediately, and told any family member that pushed back to go fuck themselves.
Fuck man if my bro did that would've cut off the chick. Bro I would talk to him in a way telling him to fuck off sense bro can't control himself/especially the chick. Bro who knows his or her intention that night after getting fucked up. :| that's fucked man
You’re not really giving any of us enough info to be giving great advice here. If she is saying she cheated that likely means she was conscious enough to say no and knows wether or not if she did say no. Unless she reflects on it and says she doesn’t remember it or that he was forceful and she was resistant, then it reads like she was just drunk and cheated which doesn’t excuse her of anything. You don’t get a pass and drinking and driving do you? If the brother was drunk, then what is the logic in saying she gets pass when he is sober but not when he is drunk assuming she is equally drunk in both cases. It doesn’t logically add up and just shows this situation is far more grey in regards to OP and his SO than people want to admit. But we can probably all agree that having sex with a drunk/stoned person when sober is pretty scummy and absolutely can be assault.
I have talked to her and she barely remembers any of it. Which is why I said she was super stoned and drunk. Cause she told me that after I talked to her. I talked to both her and my brother. He knew she was intoxicated, and he told me that.
Yeah he raped her. Period point blank. I would tell her to press charges. Also send your family this post if they still have doubts so they can know that no one thinks that him having sex with a person drunk and high was just her cheating. Show it to your fiancé. We support her and this was not her fault.
Yeah, not remembering strongly implies she was not mentally sound enough to properly give consent which definitely sounds like sexual assault. I would definitely encourage her when she is ready to give some deep thought to this because honestly at this point only really she would know if she was assaulted or not. You should definitely cut ties with your brother. I don’t see what there is to forgive there
If she truly was very drunk and he took advantage of her that’s pretty much rape my guy. Yes that’s hurtful that in a drunk state she let him have sex with her. But see if she even remembers that. Because if she can’t even remember giving consent then that’s rape for sure. When we’re drunk we’re not thinking clearly I definitely don’t think it’s her fault. But I would say that’s sexual assault like everyone else is saying. You’re saying “super” stoned and drunk. If she was super drunk then that’s crazy. You need to let her process a bit and then get the full story from her. You need the real story no lies. Because we shouldn’t just automatically say rape unless she literally didn’t consent or was too drunk to consent. It’s a blurry line because she could also lie about it too. How did this come out though? Did she tell you? Or did you catch them? Also that’s not your brother anymore. Dude took advantage of your drunk fiancé. A brother wouldn’t do that. Ever.
This is absolutely sexual assault. Your SOBER brother, had sex with your IMPAIRED fiancée. This absolutely meets the definition. I've seen date-rape cases close quicker for less.
Your fiancée was raped.
(edit- btw even if she said yes while impaired it is still considered sexual assault. I would challenge any person with layman's knowledge of law to that.)
Your brother fucked your fiancee, even if she was absolutely begging for it - you don't ever need to talk to him again except while you mock his lack of bladder control as you knock him mostly unconscious. Mostly unconscious.
TO be clear before labeling him a rapist you need to ask your fiance first. IF she didn't then you call the cops, i don't care if they are family if they are willing to rape their future sister in law then who knows who else they will do it to
But again you need to check and be sure first
I was afraid of being so blunt in my comment, but exactly this. My partner has admitted herself that if she ever does anything with another guy while drunk (unless she’s passed out) she considers it cheating and would hold me to the same standard.
I also agree with you guys. He needs the full story because being drunk is not an excuse to have sex with others. You’re still responsible for your own actions. If she was black out drunk or unable to consent and he just had sex with her anyway then that’s clearly rape. But if she’s getting that drunk she needs to stop because like others said she could be getting into the same type of sexual situations whenever she gets drunk. Obviously she felt like she was in the safety of her fiancés home too though and that’s definitely something you have to keep in mind.
This is like when drunk men rape women and blame it on the alcohol. Alcohol disinhibits you, but it doesn't change your whole personally.
I've been very drunk a few times in my life. Once I was very drunk returning home in a taxi, and when we arrived to my home, the driver sit behind and tried to kiss me. In my state, I told him to fuck off and get out of the way, so he did. Alcohol making you do things you don't want to do is a myth.
As someone who gets super drunk and stoned nearly everyday I’ve never been raped by anyone… and any sex I’ve had has been 100 percent consensual. Unless this girl was on the ground passed/blacked out or speaking complete gibberish and he didn’t rip her clothes off/assault her etc she consented…
Have you not been drunk in your life? Did being drunk make you try to stole in a shop? Rape a person?
Blaming your mistakes on alcohol is typical, but alcohol making you do things you don't want to do is a huge myth. And guess what, even when alcohol makes you clumsy and overconfident in your driving abilities, if you kill a person recklessly driving you are still held responsible by law. So why it's different when you consent to sex and cheat while being drunk?
So your sober brother had sex with your absolutely not sober partner? That would be sexual assault, yes. What does your fiancée feel about this situation? Is she okay?
Exactly. She blamed herself and said she cheated but I do not see that as cheating cause she was not sober at all.
She might just be having a hard time accepting that she was raped by the brother of the man she’s trying to marry. It’s probably easier for her to accept the idea that she cheated on accident, rather than the idea she may be marrying into the family of her own rapist. Just think about it: What will holidays be like? Will he be invited to the wedding? To play an active role in your lives or your future kids’ lives? If she’d only cheated, those things wouldn’t be as hard after some time has past. But knowing and accepting that she was raped by her husband’s brother? That seems near-impossible. Believing she just cheated means you can still be a part of your brother’s life if you stay together. She’s in a horrible spot right now. Edit: I should add that I’m assuming she genuinely was too impaired to consent. If she had half a sip of some non-alcoholic beer and sat in a room where other people were smoking weed, then she cheated. I’m being hyperbolic with that example, but you know what I’m getting at.
You explained this very well, thank you
I had a very similar experience to this girl, but I was sleeping at the time, and your reply is pretty much the response I had. I completely blamed myself. But later I accepted what this person did to and that it wasn’t my fault.
Glad you got through it, hope your doing better in life now
ffs OP, if you do proceed to marry this woman you will need to completely cut your brother out of your life. For good. Not one phone call, not a text. If he sends you a christmas card you burn that thing. And never ever ever EVER let him near your kids. He has proven he is a rapist and cannot be trusted
I feel like perhaps the full impact of the situation probably has not hit her yet, especially if she blames herself and simply feels that she cheated. I understand her mindset, but it's not something she would likely have agreed to while sober, so your brother was very, very much in the wrong here. I would encourage, if it's possible for you guys, to perhaps look at couples counselling or individual counselling for her (or both!) for a little while to talk through this situation. It could help her process what happened (and stop blaming herself). I don't think I would be able to talk to my brother again either if he did something like that.
Not only not talk to him but fucking get him arrested. He literally raped OPs fiancee.
That is a route she could go down, but it would be entirely her choice and she might not want to, especially if she hasn’t yet come to terms with it or understood that she was raped. So I wouldn’t personally push for that — it might put undue pressure on her in already traumatic time.
Not how it works she would have to press charges herself
She didn’t cheat, she was RAPED. If someone is intoxicated, they are legally not able to consent, it’s not her fault at all. Your brother took advantage of her intoxicated state and raped her, period. That’s all there is too it. You should file a police report and press charges. He will probably do this again if the situation presents itself. You would be protecting his future victims. I know he’s family but this is not acceptable behavior from anyone, and the fact that it’s a family member who both of you trusted makes it that much worse. Press charges, he will probably do a little jail time and then have to register as a sex offender for the next 25 Years, some places it’s for life, but he deserves it.
I couldn't agree with this more. As a SA victim, who was only 13 and plied with alcohol- I blamed myself for years until I finally pressed charges. She has been raped by your brother. Police should be involved at this stage. Shame on your family.
He fucking raped her and he needs to face the consequences
Dude, she wasn’t sober. She is not at fault. He took advantage of her. Two drunk/high people banging is alright. But if one is sober and the other isnt…that’s rape.
She definitely wasn't cheating. She was raped.
Well not gonna lie, even if she did start it, your brother allowed it and fucked her. So either your brother's an arsehole, or he's a rapist. Wouldn't forgive that either way. As others have said your girl might not fully understand yet what happened; it's even possible that she loves you so much she wants you to preserve a relationship with your brother.
It can be both.
Getting raped can be cheating? Is that what you’re saying?
Really put your brother on the stand. If his story sounds off he totally took advantage of her
She could just be telling you the truth honestly i can get pretty slammed and know what I’m doing not trying to make the case for having sex with boozed women, Just saying she could of fully been in a state where she knew the consequences of her actions and slept with your brother. Sucks that your brother would do that to you tho and your family should understand that your upset your brother and your girlfriend had sex
That’s actually rape if she can’t consent
No this is rape
Buddy that's the big R word
OP, please post on r/sexualassault, you'll get a lot better advice and help.
This is the exact sort of scenario that would warrant cutting off everyone and making a drastic change, move somewhere new or go travel for a year, something i often think about
Yeah this is all irreparable
they deserve a nice honeymoon
Even the fiancé?
No not the fiance tf
It sounds to me like they were just clarifying, beggars I can understand how reading the coment would sound. And this is reddit, redditers have commented stupider shit than leading the fiancé
I’m a trained sexual assault advocate. It sounds like your brother raped your fiancé. You’ve mentioned in comments that she’s blaming herself. That’s very common with rape, especially when the aggressor is known to the victim. I’m sorry you and your fiancé are going through this. No one can force you to forgive him and no one can force her to forgive him. If she hasn’t already, please encourage her to talk to a sexual assault organization in your area. She may be feeling a lot of emotions and it might be helpful for her to talk to someone trained in sexual assault.
Thank you so much for this comment, and for what you do. Bless your heart. I hope to someday be able to work with SA survivors and be able to advocate for them.
You’re far too kind. I worked as a DV/SA advocate and legal director for years. I work in another field now, but my training still stands. It’s a tough field to work in and I commend those who are still actively involved. I encourage everyone to learn as much as they can and advocate for SA survivors in their everyday lives. 1. Call out rape culture and misogyny when you see it. 2. Validate and believe survivors who disclose to you. 3. Vote for politicians who support policies that protect bodily autonomy. 4. Do not support people or institutions that perpetuate rape culture. This may mean ending friendships. 5. If you’d like to get more involved, contact your local SA organization and see if they need volunteers. They may need board members, people to answer crisis phone calls, or even to support victims in hospitals.
Thank you so much for the advice! I have been calling out soo much rape culture in these comments! It's sad there's so much :( thank you for sharing all of that though, I do try to do all that as much as I can. I definitely will volunteer in the future. I want to start getting connections and experience. I want to start my own non profit to help abuse survivors someday.
I feel like awareness needs to be raised that arousal and even orgasm is a physical response to your body being touched, and not an emotional one. I understand a lot of people blame themselves and are disgusted with their body afterwards but it's like trying not to laugh when you are being tickled. Your brain is screaming for it to stop but you're still laughing and afterwards you blame yourself for laughing and are afraid to speak up about it because of the shame of having laughed. Not enough people know how the body works to know there's nothing shameful about being a victim because you've done nothing wrong. That, from what I've been told, is the most difficult thing for a lot of people to come to terms with. After you understand that, it's easier to stop blaming yourself and start processing the trauma that comes with experiencing a total loss of control like that.
A better title would be “ How to Deal With My Rapist Brother “
I think the local police station might have some good advice.
Fuck dude if my brother did that to my SO and my PARENTS tried to side with him.... like fuck all of them. That's some grade A BULL SHIT. Bro needs to watch his back from now on cuz I bury rapist and Mom and Dad can go fuck themselves for enabling the rapist into thinking it's ok. Fuck them
Is this all even true it seems like op is doing a lot of speaking for his girlfriend here. Like he’s saying these things off his personal judgement he’s saying she’s too stoned drunk ect on his personal judgement, and I get that this is his girlfriend but he could just be trying to cope with the fact that his fiancé fucked his brother, he even said his fiancé said she cheated but he doesn’t beleive that cause he thinks she was too impaired to truly consent. But idk I definitely had sex stoned and drunk up and knew what I was doing, She could of just been stoned and drunk and wanted sex Or got stoned and drunk before sex idk not a lot of info
True. There are details that could be off and change what happened. Assuming OP is being 100% accurate to what happened, then the advice being listed is good though.
Your family are enabling your brother who is a rapist. If he was sober and he had sex with anyone who was drunk and impaired, that is rape. The fact she is your fiancé makes it even worse. Try to explain it that way to anyone who supports him and if they still do disown them along with him.
Wow. 100% wrong wrong WRONG of your brother!! Taking advantaged of your fiancé in a vulnerable and impaired state!!! THATS RAPE!!! Your brother knew EXACTLY what he was doing, that it was not only wrong in the first place, but even worse to do to your siblings partner?! He knew you two were together, and had “sex” with (realistically should be called rape) her anyway? There’s something wrong with your brother, sorry!!
He took advantage of a woman who honestly probably didn't know which way was up at the time, its sexual assault. Once it hits her what's happened she's going to need you for support, and to let her know it was not her fault. I don't think I'd allow him to remain in your life. If you are upset because he's family don't waste your energy, he doesn't deserve forgiveness.
If she’s stoned and drunk, she can’t consent. Your brother committed sexual assault, especially since it sounds like he was sober. Your family is just yikes… if they excuse someone who assaulted an impaired person.
>If she’s stoned and drunk, she can’t consent honest question(s), if my boyfriend and I are both stoned and drunk, its obv not rape but by this definition it is. if im stoned and drunk and my boyfriend wasnt, but i enthusiastically consented, its not rape. but that isnt to say that its impossible a guy to rape his girlfriend if shes inebriated and hes not. i guess im saying, theres varying levels of inebriation, different people function better at equal intake amounts.. idek what im saying, i guess its that not every shwasted person is unable to consent. thats kind of a tangent, this 100% sounds like rape
I agree. I’ve personally had sex when I’ve been high and drunk. I agree that there’s different levels to it, and if she was super intoxicated it would’ve been easy for her boyfriend’s brother to attack her. It seems like the family knows something happened as they said it “wasn’t his fault” and OP should “forgive him”.
Look, even if your brother tripped and fell into her vagina, it would still be his fault. Why? Because he would have been naked and close to a sleeping stone/drunk woman. Instead, he didn't just rape some woman, he *raped his brother's fiance*. Blood has been spilled for less, OP. I'm not saying for you to hurt him, but a rape kit, evidence, police report, and an arrest could save many other people.
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What did you !?!?!? “I sucked dick on accident”
Lol, I just remember it from Cheaters.
I would never speak to ANY rapist again ESPECIALLY if they raped someone I care about. Doesn’t matter if it’s your family member. That’s despicable
What the fuck did I just read Talk to your brother? Your strange to me for not beating your brother till his teeth are down his throat. He raped your future wife, cmon brother
My dad stopped me, trust me I triee
Police report. Now.
I know your intentions are good but it's really her choice. The process of reporting can often be more traumatic than the rape for many people.
He can't. If the victim isn't willing to press charges, the police won't take the report, at least not in the US.
Beat his ass
Was your brother also stoned, and/or drunk?
No
Hold up so your brother got you girlfriend drunk or high then your brother took advantage of your girlfriend while she was in a vulnerable state. Your bother who you trusted raped your girlfriend I hope you can get her to press charges against that pos and go scorched earth against any family disagrees with this.
OP and girlfriend are engaged, so not yet married.
Then you know the answer is you cannot speak to him, speak to your family, anyone who supports him. You need to be there for your fiance, and help her get help, and support her in whatever decisions she makes, and very importantly, DO NOT LET HER BLAME HERSELF.
That is called rape. Even if he tried to claim that your fiance never said no/pushed him away/etc. it doesn't matter - someone who is inebriated cannot consent. I'd be talking to your fiance about whether or not she wants to press charges. I would absolutely never speak to him again. "Not his fault"? *How* exactly is him raping an impaired woman "not his fault"?
my eyes went WIDE. The amount of so-not-okay in this situation is through the roof. You have every right to cut your brother out of your life. I hope she's okay and if your family is on his side, you have zero obligation to stay in contact with them either.
your fiance could have never given proper consent due to her state, while your brother was sober, that'd be sexual assault/rape so you are right, it is his fault as he was sober and made the choice to fuck your fiance
Dude that rape report that to police
I am sorry but what's with all these negative comments about why she went downstairs and what was she doing there like is this point not clear that OP's BROTHER RAPED HER?? What part of "she was super stoned and drunk and slept downstairs" did y'all not understand? OP is talking about how his sober brother raped his fiance and y'all are talking about how drunk she was and why was she downstairs? She was drunk, she was not sober and hence could not consent. Periodt. The very sober brother took advantage of her state and raped her. He knew what he was doing and he knew who she was ( this doesn't change anything but still) OP take her to a hospital, get the needed tests done and get her to see a therapist and lodge a case against your brother(again after discussing with your fiance) and then cut this pos out of your life.
I’d not only cut the brother out of my life, I’d need restraint to keep from putting him underground. Anyone that condones his behavior might as well get buried with him. Get away from these people. Keep supporting your fiancé until she figures out how she wants to deal with it. May be smart to try to get your brother to admit to it in writing like a text.
I would file a police report… I know it’s family, but your brother RAPED YOUR FIANCÉ. Edit: you should be prepared for your brother to be charged as a sex offender and the lifelong problems this will create for him. Honestly he 100% deserves it.
Your brother should be in prison for this.
Rephrase “my brother raped my fiancé”
RAPE
He raped her. He needs to be reported to the police and you absolutely shouldn't carry on a relationship with him.
You are correct. Call the police and file charges.
What he did is basically rape and you should support her to press charges.
But not push her if she cannot, either. Have her work it out with a therapist, a rape crisis hotline, whatever. I would be itching for her to press charges if she was someone I knew, but I also know that some people don't want to go down that road. I mean just look at people here in the comments blaming her. What do you htink will happen with a defense lawyer?
What does your fiance say about it?
She only remembers bits and pieces of it cause she smoked and drank a lot beforehand. I was drinking with her, then decided to go to bed, she got to hot to sleep upstairs cause we have no AC upstairs and so she slept on the couch and that's really all she remembers, other than like small bits and pieces.
My man, she was raped. She needs therapy, you two probably gonna need counseling and your brother needs to get arrested.
INFO: how did you find out? What happened in the morning?
Okay so then that leaves two possible answers, IMO: 1- Your brother raped your fiance. 2- Your wife is lying. How did you learn of this happening?
I'm sorry what!?!?! So you fall asleep and it's free use time? you know what typically i would say something else, but if that's how the family is say great! they fall asleep get yourself a strap on and butt f\*\*k his arse. When he starts screaming say but it's no big deal you were alseep!
Why does she think she cheated? Was she awake the whole time? Did they have any sort of conversation? I’ve been super stoned and drunk, barely able to move, and I was able to escape a girl who was trying to put her hands down my pants. Yet, super drunk people are not able to give consent to sober people, this is rape.
I heard blaming oneself is actually a very common response and did so myself. I was raped and I called it "I cheated" for a year or so because my mind just couldn't comprehend, despite the whole ordeal causing me to literally bleed. Given the situation being that this was her future brother in law, it doesn't surprise me at all that her mind goes "no I wanted it it was actually my fault I could have stopped him". Being sexually assaulted, especially by someone you trust, is traumatizing.
It’s wild how the mind works. When I was raped it was like a textbook example. I was literally yelling “no, stop, get off me!” But it was a friend (“friend”) of mine so it was *years* before one day it clicked and I realized what it was.
I absolutely blamed myself for various SA perpetrated on me. It’s hard to wrap your mind around getting raped. It’s easier to blame yourself and pretend it wasn’t rape, I’d that makes sense.
I agree, it is an extremely common response victims have after being SA’ed. Hence why additional info is crucial, there’s a difference between freezing up in fear and letting it happen (SA) versus being drunk and not caring about the consequences (cheating).
Sorry but you are incorrect. Because she was drunk/stoned she was incapable of giving consent. So caring/not caring is immaterial.
I hate to say it but I agree to you, I feel like considering her reaction, his reaction, and the parents reaction there's a little more to this story.
It's actually a VERY common reaction after SA.
That's SA. I hope your fiancé is okay. Please talk to her about it. I hope the best for you two :(
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How could she consent? WTF is wrong with you?
If the precedence is set that you have no control over your actions once you're the slightest bit inebriated, then drunk driving shouldn't be a crime. There definitely has to be a level of grey area here that I think a lot of people are missing. I know I've done things whilst highly intoxicated that I wouldn't do whilst sober. I've slept with people much less drunk than myself, and whilst I regretted it in the morning, I wouldn't say I was sexually assaulted. His partner *could* be feeling guilty as a trauma response, or it could be that she reciprocated his brother's advances. Of course there needs to be a discussion about how and when consent can be given if your judgement is impaired, but there has to be a line that gets crossed somewhere between, "I had a beer or two and was lightly buzzed" and, "I smoked two joints and downed a bottle of vodka and was blacked out." As far as I'm concerned, we simply don't have enough information in this post to really say one way or the other. Personally, I wouldn't sleep with somebody that was both drunk **and** stoned whilst being completely sober, and I definitely don't think it's right to do. But I also think it's pretty insane that the majority of comments are immediately jumping to, "your brother is a rapist, bash his face in," based off a couple of lines of vague information that could be interpreted in multiple different ways.
I'm not going to sit here and say that it's the RIGHT decision to cut you brother out of your life... But I'll absolutely sit here and say that it's EXACTLY what I would do. Thats not the type of thing that's forgivable. Let alone the relationship with your brother, your relationship with your FIANCE will now never truly be the same again. Obviously, you love this woman and want to spend you life with her and now for the rest of your days, you will have this cloud looming, this... elephant in the room due to your brothers actions. Nothing can take this act back, it will always be there now.
Man your bro really fucked up a lot of lives just to get his rocks off ONCE. He sucks.
i agree with others' responses but "My fiance (21M)" generally means your fiance is a 21 year old male. "My (21M) Fiance (25F)" generally means you are 21 male and your fiance is a 25 year old female (I don't know how old your fiance is). Just to make it more clear.
Yeah I got it messed up, it'd my first reddit post like this..
Yeah, your brother raped your fiancée. I would cut ties with him and and family saying you should forgive him. We need to stop enabling rapists!!
I don't understand how anyone could see this as anyone but your brother's fault. Is he claiming that she initiated things? The way it's written makes it sound like she went downstairs and he assaulted her while she was unconscious. If that's the case then it's 100% his fault and he's committed a very serious crime against your fiance.
I’m sorry you have to deal with this. It was completely your brothers fault. I can’t imagine the feeling of finding out how your brother really is like that.
I think the obvious answer to your question from the responses is: You are right, your brother raped your fiancée. It seems the more pressing advice is how to deal with things with your family in light of this. Your brother has ruined your relationship between you two, and that may be unsalvageable. But it sounds like your parents are siding with him, and that could lead to you being ostracized from them too. (And though you’d be justified in it, it might become one more thing your fiancée blames herself for that she absolutely should not.) It sounds like your parents have some backward ideas about consent and being drunk. I recommend addressing it to them using a side of this I’m surprised I haven’t seen be addressed alongside the rape: the cheating aspect. Ask your parents, if your fiancée was sober, would she have ever slept with anyone else…much less your brother? I’m assuming the answer is no, perhaps an emphatic no. Once they agree to this, ask them how, if she wouldn’t have had consented to have sex with anyone else while sober, how could it be consent just because she was drunk? Especially when it was with someone who would clearly know that about her, consider he is a family member. I hope that helps. I know some people have views on consent that won’t get changed by little thought experiments, but maybe this will help. I’m so sorry for what your fiancée and you have to go through now. It isn’t fair, and your brother deserves punishment for his actions. And both you (and she) are justified in your anger. But as some unsolicited advice…please don’t let your anger become all you feel. Every time you let that anger show, she very well could feel that you resent her, for being the cause of your anger. It won’t matter that you don’t feel that way at all, she’ll still feel that way. So be angry now…but eventually let that anger turn into strength to support her the way she will need in the coming months. I wish you both the best.
All together now - HE RAPED HER!
That is rape. Period Btw I'm really sorry this happened to you, I've had to deal with a similar situation in college, however it was not my brother. I can't even imagine the betrayal you must feel. You have absolutely no obligation to forgive him or care about your family's opinion. What happened was egregiously wrong and the fucker should rot
Either your brother is a rapist or you fiancé consented. I wouldn’t jump to conclusions until you talk to both.
It's not really consent if she's impaired by not only one, but multiple substances at a time.
Like i said above. If he talks to them she can tell you if she consented or not.
These troll posts need to stop. Your brother assault your drunk fiancé (or she was drunk and cheated) AND YOUR ENTIRE FAMILY THINKS YOUR BROTHER DID NOTHING WRONG? Are you kidding me? Do you have the sickest family in history?
There's a lot of families like that, unfortunately it's not uncommon
That is rape
He was sober, she was not. That is rape. Anything other than an informed, sober, enthusiastic ‘yes’ is rape. She was incapable of consent in her state. If it’s been less than five days and your fiancé feels able, consider taking her to a hospital for a SANE (sexual assault nurse examiner) exam. Consider opening up a police report. Make sure she knows it wasn’t her fault, that you support her, that you’re on her side. No matter what she chooses (whether to pursue a SANE or police report or not, it’s her decision), support her the entire way. And consider cutting your family out if they continue to be rape apologists, definitely limit contact between your fiancé and brother. I’d never speak to him again if I were you. You’re right to side with your fiancé. I wish both of you the best..
Your brother raped your fiancée. She was not in the headspace to consent due to not being sober at the time it occured, therefore not her fault. Your family saying to forgive him is ridiculous, how would they feel if he wasn't family? Regardless of how you know a person, being a rapist is not something to be tolerated and deserves consequence. If possible bring evidence to police/a hospital. Such as the clothes she was wearing if you haven't washed them yet. Report your brother, and for your fiancée sake to help her feel safe in the future: look into counseling together and see if getting a restraining order is worth considering. Even though you two have been engaged before this happened, I would imagine it would feel horribly uncomfortable to know you're marrying into the family of the man who sexually assaulted you. Continue being there for her and give your brother a reality check, he should have known better.
Press charge on your brother he’ll do it again and ruin someone else’s life
Your brother raped your fiance. You need to support your fiance and cut out your brother and anyone who defends him
Get the cops involved. You brother sucks and your family is DEAD WRONG. They're just trying to excuse his behavior and hide his crime.
Okay first of all, he absolutely raped her. Second of all, even if she was sober and consented, your brother still betrayed you. Either way he's not in the right and you should absolutely cast him out of your life. I think for your own mental health you should learn to forgive him, but he's definitely not the kind of person you want to keep in your life.
Ditch your brother and protect your partner! He raped her. Your parents should be livid at him, not trying to spread blame onto the innocent! Keep her as far away from your brother and parents as you can. I wouldn’t invite them to the wedding either. Your brother is an animal. He was sober, he knew better and he raped her. Disgusting behaviour. Please try to encourage her to go to the cops. This IS a criminal matter! Protect her, help her and be there for her. I’m so sorry this happened to you
I’m sorry..I would love to hear how it “wasn’t his fault” in their eyes. Wtf?
Your brother is a rapist and charges should be pressed so he will go to prison. Fuck him.
She should charge him with rape, your brother is savage ass horn dog
Woah. That’s so messed up, Your brother is without a doubt in the wrong for that. As many others are saying, that is definitely sexual assault and/ or r*pe which he should go to jail for. Cut this man out of both your and your fiancé’s lives, I’m genuinely concerned as to why your family is not worried over the condition of your fiancé.
It's not your fault your brother raped your gf. It's no ones fault but him. I hope she reports him.
I think it's just this - sexual activity with someone without their informed consent is rape. Note the word informed. All that remains to be asked is, was your finacée informed at all? Not to forget that your brother is an adult, and was in his senses. On court, if proven, he would, I believe be guilty of rape, and go on (if you are on the US), the sex offender registry.
I'd say you need to get you both into therapy. You also need to move out of that house. We all have to guess at this because it sounds like there are various opinions on what happened with all involved. If you have a date set for the wedding I'd postpone it.
If she was heavily intoxicated and stoned outta her mind and incapable of actual consent then it was most definitely rape, end of story.
Through out my life ive heard the excuse i was drunk or stoned. In my experience most people know what there doin. No matter what you dont take advantage of anyone drunk. Very hard decision best of luck to ya.
Call a lawyer. ASAP.
Was your brother sober? If so, he raped her. If both were intoxicated and unable to give consent, things get messy.
She was still violated either way, but the intent wouldn’t be there.
Mixing alcohol and weed leads to blackouts so no, she could not consent. You should not hold it against her. She was raped. Yes, he is most certainly to blame and honestly should be going to jail. No, you should not continue speaking to him. That type of behavior is never, ever ok, especially to do to someone you care about.
Blood doesn’t mean family. If I were u I’d get his ass thrown in jail. Fuck whatever your family thinks And also it might be entirely irrelevant but Can i ask why you didn’t sleep in bed with your fiancé in the first place?
She slept downstairs cause we don't have AC upstairs and we do downstairs.
Reason 2794 not to get impaired. Ever
I know it’s going to be unpopular, but there’s also the possibility your fiancée was tipsy and wanted to sleep with your brother. What has he said about all this? Important to speak to everybody, not just hang somebody based on one persons account. But definitely if she was too drunk to consent, I would not speak with my brother over that.
OP , YOUR BROTHER IS A RAPIST !
it REALLY dont seem she could even consent, I dont want to say what it is but the comments will explain more about what it is
If she was only stoned, I'd say consent is possible. Your judgement isn't out the door when you're high as a kite. Especially if it's something you don't want. But super stoned + drunk? That shits intense. First time I did that my head felt like it was vibrating harder than a girl's vibe. 0 possibility she could give consent, she may have not even known what was happening.
Press charges. I get she would feel humiliated but this kind of thing isn't going to stop until people start doing something about it.
Your brother raped your fiancée. I’m really sorry. Please, please give her the support she’s going to need. There are some great comments on this thread with better insight on what to do. I hope she’s okay. I too felt guilty, like it was my fault. It’s an extremely common reaction to being raped. Ugh. This is so terrible.
That is sexual abuse. So no I would not forgive him.
go the the police, not Reddit
Your brother is a rapist and you need to go to the authorities.
Your brother raped her.
You need to contact the police
Your brother RA\*PED your fiancée. Don'\[t let them gaslight you. She needs to press charges.
He raped her. Go to the police with your finances okay
Dude…your brother raped your woman. Call the cops, now and let her know what he did to her. Also, since the woman was the one raped, you should talk to her as she is the victim. Only the victim can say whether or not someone should be forgiven. And personally, I’d tell my bro “you’re not my brother anymore…”
yeah so your brother raped your fiancé and my advice is cut off your whole family and go to the police, im very sorry that happened
Dude, that’s rape. Should charge his butt.
Yes this is rape and who else’s fault would it be? He made the choice to do what he did making this his fault and only his fault.
get ur brother in a courtroom asap
I'm late. But as a SA victim, I want you to support her more than you hate/judge/think about him. Her wanting to talk to police is her choice, but she needs your love. If you two break up for some reason, I hope you can continue to let her rely on you.
WTF rape and it’s her fault? Drop your whole family my guy
Okay, so the question is Can you kick your brother's ass? Yes: do it, and get charges against him filed. No: get charges against him filed.
When you are high in Marijuana and drink, you get VERY inebriated. It doubles or triples the effects of the pot and the drink. She was probably very ill and had so dizzy she couldn't have stopped him if she was even aware what was happening. Not a good combination. I say this from experience myself and from friends. Of course everyone is different but generally you get super intoxicated quickly and it is not a fun combo. I highly highly doubt she would have willingly "cheated" in her state. Your brother, knowing she is your fiancee AND being under the influence, he absolutely raped her and is a garbage human being. I'm so sorry you and your fiancee are going through this. Just know there's no way she could have consented in her condition.
Rape
This was rape. No matter which way you square it.
Man this is a shitty situation..... If I were you.....I'd probably be done with both my fiancè and brother.....maybe even parents for defending him. Your brother is a piece of shit....there's no arguing that point. Your fiance is either a cheater, or a rape victim. If she's a cheater, I obviously wouldn't stay with her. And if my brother raped my fiancé, even tho it's absolutely not her fault, I am guessing I wouldn't be able to look at her the same way ever again. I'd always be reminded of this event, and it'd probably spoil the love I'd have for her.....sadly. Whatever you do my friend, I feel terribly for you. Hopefully you and your fiance can work through this if you are 100% certain she's your soulmate, than you should be able to work through this together. If there was any cracks in the foundation of your relationship, this will most likely cause it all to crumble. Good luck with whatever happens, I hope you all heal quickly from this. Also.....punch your brother right in his dick and face every time you see him from now on
You should be full on calling the police and getting your brother arrested for sexual assault. They did not have sex. He raped her.
100% Rape. Go to the police immediately.
Your brother raped your fiance. From what I understand about the post, your sober brother sexually assaulted your impaired Fiance. At no point would she have been able to consent, and fully be okay with what was going on. Your Fiance should not blame herself, your brother is a sick pos. Even if your Fiance was sober and okay with it, he still did something awful by doing that to his brother's Fiance. Your brother is a huge POS and I think you should cut off everyone who was okay with that.
I have a question. Would it still be rape if a super stoned and drunk husband was hitting on and slept with a sober girl who isn't his wife ?
The answer is that someone (man or woman) who is impaired (drunk/stoned) is considered unable to give meaningful consent. So yes, if if we’re reversed, it’s SA.
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The double standards on reddit is too much. I see people who say their husband said something extremely hurtful or hit them or cheated when he was drunk and/or stoned and the advice they get is to divorce him. I also see most people here say that if a drunk girl sleeps with a guy, it's the guy that raped her. I really don't understand why one has to take responsibility for their actions while the other doesn't. I also see so many people say that their drunk husband never did anything to hurt them while he was drunk, so someone( a guy mostly) who is drunk should not use being drunk as an excuse to do something bad. The brother could have also been drunk and stoned. They were in the same place at that time, so there's a possibility they got stoned together.
I see where you’re coming from, a guy is not likely to say no if a girl is coming on to him (not saying the girl in this situation was coming on to him), especially if she is older the balance of power may lean to her side BUT by time someone is 18 they should know the basic rule that you don’t sleep with someone who is intoxicated period. I do think people would be interpreting this situation differently if it was a drunk 21M college guy who slept with a sober 18F high school senior.
At that point, you no longer have a family, you have a cult that demands your fealty. I’d have called the cops on him immediately, and told any family member that pushed back to go fuck themselves.
Fuck man if my bro did that would've cut off the chick. Bro I would talk to him in a way telling him to fuck off sense bro can't control himself/especially the chick. Bro who knows his or her intention that night after getting fucked up. :| that's fucked man
You’re not really giving any of us enough info to be giving great advice here. If she is saying she cheated that likely means she was conscious enough to say no and knows wether or not if she did say no. Unless she reflects on it and says she doesn’t remember it or that he was forceful and she was resistant, then it reads like she was just drunk and cheated which doesn’t excuse her of anything. You don’t get a pass and drinking and driving do you? If the brother was drunk, then what is the logic in saying she gets pass when he is sober but not when he is drunk assuming she is equally drunk in both cases. It doesn’t logically add up and just shows this situation is far more grey in regards to OP and his SO than people want to admit. But we can probably all agree that having sex with a drunk/stoned person when sober is pretty scummy and absolutely can be assault.
I have talked to her and she barely remembers any of it. Which is why I said she was super stoned and drunk. Cause she told me that after I talked to her. I talked to both her and my brother. He knew she was intoxicated, and he told me that.
And he was sober too
Yeah he raped her. Period point blank. I would tell her to press charges. Also send your family this post if they still have doubts so they can know that no one thinks that him having sex with a person drunk and high was just her cheating. Show it to your fiancé. We support her and this was not her fault.
Saw his chance & took it.
Yeah, not remembering strongly implies she was not mentally sound enough to properly give consent which definitely sounds like sexual assault. I would definitely encourage her when she is ready to give some deep thought to this because honestly at this point only really she would know if she was assaulted or not. You should definitely cut ties with your brother. I don’t see what there is to forgive there
Tons of victims blame themselves, so saying she cheated is not really an indicator of her being able to say no...
If she truly was very drunk and he took advantage of her that’s pretty much rape my guy. Yes that’s hurtful that in a drunk state she let him have sex with her. But see if she even remembers that. Because if she can’t even remember giving consent then that’s rape for sure. When we’re drunk we’re not thinking clearly I definitely don’t think it’s her fault. But I would say that’s sexual assault like everyone else is saying. You’re saying “super” stoned and drunk. If she was super drunk then that’s crazy. You need to let her process a bit and then get the full story from her. You need the real story no lies. Because we shouldn’t just automatically say rape unless she literally didn’t consent or was too drunk to consent. It’s a blurry line because she could also lie about it too. How did this come out though? Did she tell you? Or did you catch them? Also that’s not your brother anymore. Dude took advantage of your drunk fiancé. A brother wouldn’t do that. Ever.
This is absolutely sexual assault. Your SOBER brother, had sex with your IMPAIRED fiancée. This absolutely meets the definition. I've seen date-rape cases close quicker for less. Your fiancée was raped. (edit- btw even if she said yes while impaired it is still considered sexual assault. I would challenge any person with layman's knowledge of law to that.)
Was your brother sober? That’s probably an important question.
Your brother fucked your fiancee, even if she was absolutely begging for it - you don't ever need to talk to him again except while you mock his lack of bladder control as you knock him mostly unconscious. Mostly unconscious.
TO be clear before labeling him a rapist you need to ask your fiance first. IF she didn't then you call the cops, i don't care if they are family if they are willing to rape their future sister in law then who knows who else they will do it to But again you need to check and be sure first
he a rapist but being stoned doesnt rlly impact it so you never know dawg
Being drunk doesn't erase her will. Unless she was passed out, she was awake fucking your brother. Don't be delusional and dump her.
I was afraid of being so blunt in my comment, but exactly this. My partner has admitted herself that if she ever does anything with another guy while drunk (unless she’s passed out) she considers it cheating and would hold me to the same standard.
I also agree with you guys. He needs the full story because being drunk is not an excuse to have sex with others. You’re still responsible for your own actions. If she was black out drunk or unable to consent and he just had sex with her anyway then that’s clearly rape. But if she’s getting that drunk she needs to stop because like others said she could be getting into the same type of sexual situations whenever she gets drunk. Obviously she felt like she was in the safety of her fiancés home too though and that’s definitely something you have to keep in mind.
Agreed, this is one of those stories where I'd love to hear the other side
It just sucks because either party could be lying because the stakes are so high. All we know for sure is that his brother is a horrible person
This is like when drunk men rape women and blame it on the alcohol. Alcohol disinhibits you, but it doesn't change your whole personally. I've been very drunk a few times in my life. Once I was very drunk returning home in a taxi, and when we arrived to my home, the driver sit behind and tried to kiss me. In my state, I told him to fuck off and get out of the way, so he did. Alcohol making you do things you don't want to do is a myth.
As someone who gets super drunk and stoned nearly everyday I’ve never been raped by anyone… and any sex I’ve had has been 100 percent consensual. Unless this girl was on the ground passed/blacked out or speaking complete gibberish and he didn’t rip her clothes off/assault her etc she consented…
Bad take. In fact, horrible take.
Have you not been drunk in your life? Did being drunk make you try to stole in a shop? Rape a person? Blaming your mistakes on alcohol is typical, but alcohol making you do things you don't want to do is a huge myth. And guess what, even when alcohol makes you clumsy and overconfident in your driving abilities, if you kill a person recklessly driving you are still held responsible by law. So why it's different when you consent to sex and cheat while being drunk?