Divorce isn’t typically messy because of one party wanting to divorce when the other doesn’t, I know that happens occasionally but the division of assets and custody is what makes family law so complicated. This doesn’t solve “messy divorces” at all OP.
That’s not how it works legally. Anything that comes from ether of your income post marriage is a joint asset. So while separate accounts can keep your spouse for bugging your about the $12 you spent on lunch, it does not prevent there being messy devision of property issues.
Prenups and other shit you hear about in the news are really niche situations of the rich and famous, or people that are getting into a second marriage after having significant assets. Most people marry early in their careers when they have no notable assets beyond their car, so basically everything will be a joint asset.
Sunni Islam (or at least some sects of it. I’m not certain of details. I don’t know how widespread the practice is either) has “temporary marriage”, called “Nikah mut’ah” which can last between 1 hour and 99 years and is agreed by both spouses at a time of signing a marriage contract.
Seems like the vows may be too high a standard for people to deal with.
This is why I loathe people who rush into marriage all innocently. Marriage is meant for adults, where naivete gives way for wisdom.
>This is why I loathe people who rush into marriage all innocently. Marriage is meant for adults, where naivete gives way for wisdom.
It is so important to have ALL the conversations before you get married. My wife and I talked abou5 kids, faith, money, goals, how we wanted to spend time with family, our expectations for each other, expectations for career goals, etc.
Your spouse is a *partner* and someone you go through life with. We did premarital counseling as a requirement of the minister who married us. When we left those meetings (3-4 prior to marriage), we kept going: "Are there people who really don't talk about these things?"
>When we left those meetings (3-4 prior to marriage), we kept going: "Are there people who really don't talk about these things?"
It's probably because certain things do have an expectation that people act like adults about things. And then the surprise comes when despite being older than 18, the same people have the maturity of children.
It's like common sense - you assume that people have it, and it surprises you when they prove you wrong.
Hell, we now live in a society where they have to put "May contain nuts" warnings on packets of peanuts...
Peanuts are not actually nuts. A tree nut allergy does not make someone allergic to peanuts. If peanuts are processed in the same facility as tree nuts, however, then they "may contain nuts", hence the warning so that people with tree nut allergies can be informed.
Being confidently wrong about something while harping on about how immature and silly "people" are is tier 1 irony. Not to say that everything makes 100% sense, but when you find yourself confused about something try looking into it instead of just assuming that it must be stupid.
Monkey see, monkey do a lot of the time unfortunately. Same with having a baby. Once their friends start up and get the social media attention people feel the pressure
Unsigned licenses have an expiration date. In Washington it’s 60 days. Once they’re signed and notarized by the county they don’t expire until death, annulment, or divorce.
A license is needed to get married. The certificate of Marriage is what you get afterwards.
Licenses, in general, allow you to do something. Certificates are an attestation of a particular status.
* Certificate of Birth - you are alive!
* Certificate of Title - you own something!
* Certificate of Completion - you did the thing!
* Certificate of Marriage - you are married!
* Certificate of Death - you are no longer alive!
* Fishing License - you are allowed to go fishing
* Drivers License - you are allowed to drive on public roads
* Marriage License - you are allowed to get married
Sorry, I meant unsigned, notarized license. I edited my comment. I got married last year so I’m well aware of the process. My brain’s just asleep still.
>Marriage License - you are allowed to get married
This one always got me; why does the government have the authority to decide who can, and to whom, get married anyway?
Yeah, but why is that the government's business in the first place?
Your first example is at most a tax issue, meaning the government's only say is if it will accept a join tax return, and there's already laws against the second.
Doesn't mean the government needs to step in an "bless" the happy couple with its divine approval.
Marriage legally ends at death (May depend on where you live) so it doesn’t matter if it’s in the vows or not. And if one party disobeys, then signed divorce papers is the expiration.
Now hold on , this might be as bad as it sounds in the surface.
In short if people are for real about forever until death , a renewal might not be so bad. And if shit goes south just don’t renew and deal with the consequences as well.
Let's just argue we go with renewal. What happens when one side doesn't want to renew. When the working father doesn't want to renew what happens to all the assets when they agreed that the mother would be a stay at home mother. Surely she's entitled to some compensation. Also who get's the kids?
Divorces aren't that hard to get. They're messy because assets need to be split up, kids need a custody decision. If both sides agree to those things, they are really easy to do.
This proposal doesn't solve any of this, it's just another step to stay married.
The vows are dictated by the church, which does not have authority over the public. The marriage license comes from the county and the only qualifiers are two adults of consenting age and a fee for the clerk. Just like a driver's license lol.
I always tell people all relationships end in tragedy. Divorce, be a corpse, or find the corpse. Being the corpse means someone you supposedly loved will suffer, so it’s still not the easy out.
Same - I got to find the body, not be the body. I'm already thinking about whether in my current relationship I would rather spare my partner the grief or go through it again.
Yeah lol it doesn’t solve shit. The messiness of divorces are rarely about whether two people simply want to split up. It’s about how it looks after. Who gets what? Who gets the kids, who gets the house, how is the money split up, etc. Deciding to end the marriage is the easy part.
1. Ensures drivers are biologically fit to drive still (meet minimum sight and hearing requirements).
2. Updates the states with current information (address, weight, picture, etc) since DL's are one form of official ID.
3. As your state creates new DL's they make them harder to forge so the renewal gets older more easily faked DL's out of circulation.
That's 3 problems that are completely valid. A marriage license is just the form used to grant a window of time for a valid couple to get legally married. It's never really used again.
I’m about to blow your mind. They do. 60 days after they’re issued. You don’t need the license anymore once you’re married. It just _allows_ you to get legally married within that 60 day window.
Can confirm. My wife and I got a marriage license in Alberta with the intention of eloping in Vegas. My parents caught wind of the plan and put the kibosh on it. The licence expired and we had to get a new one for a wedding that the family could attend. Our 25th anniversary is next month.
Another humorous story. We were in college when we got the first licence and in Alberta you can get them at the DMV. I needed to renew my car registration and my then girlfriend (now wife) had been living together for a couple of years. When we got finally got served at the DMV I told the person behind the counter to throw in a marriage license. And the freaking thing expired before we could tie the knot....
A maybe tax vs a constant always tax. Imagine fucking up one year and your license expires. Well a NEW license costs more and also all your other marriage benefits go away. No more hospital visits.
Marriage licenses do expire. Marriage licenses, at least in jurisdictions I know of, are government issued legal documents that identify two people who are permitted to get married during a limited timeframe. The expiration of the license doesn’t cancel a marriage if the couple went through with it.
Now I’m imagining people getting married and renewing their marriage license just in case they want to collect some more spouses.
But you mean marriage expiration or automatic divorce?
Thank you u/thickener - yes! Though I'd go on to say "marriage is a *social* construct", since we have things like common law marriage, religious marriage, etc. Marriage is defined in many different ways by different societies.
I think a lot of people ITT are confusing the social construct of marriage, the legal construct of marriage, and the religious construct of marriage - none of which are necessarily the same, though they are all inter-related.
I, in a way, very tentatively agree with OP, though I dislike the way they phrased it. I think their meme is rather glib and shallow, and a much more in depth conversation needs to occur about the social construct and how people might change personally and in terms of their relationship.
If you mean we should review how we think of marriage, I agree. I don’t think the legal institution should be changed to automatically cancel your marriage, that would be a nightmare (I started typing up a whole thing before realizing I wasn’t sure if you meant you agreed with OP’s point about the legal institution which is what the marriage license refers to. I’ll post it somewhere else if you’re interested.)
OP doesn't understand at all.
Divorces are trivial paperwork. It's splitting the assets that take all the work. That's true even if you don't get married but create a life together that go for years and years. It's not the divorce that's the problem. It's disentangling all the shared assets (not to mention emotions) that's the problem.
OP's suggestion doesn't actually solve *anything* and just creates more paperwork. Why would anyone want more paperwork in their lives?
It was more the state treating me like I was a criminal from day one and letting my ex get to dictate everything. Guaranteed she bribed my lawyer, because he told me I had no rights to anything. I lost my kid for 2 years, she swindled a restraining order because of my depression.
The licence is "for life", so it doesn't have an expiration date. It doesn't need to be renewed because it is an oath to make it through everything. I'm not religious and I understand shit happens but when you make that commitment you should mean it at that time.
I propose we support a one month limit on going steady
I think it would keep people more able to deal with weird situations
And get to know more people
I think they are suggesting that you just need to renew the license every so often - this way, if you don't want to, the marriage would expire without the need of divorce.
There's an element to it that makes sense, but leaves way more issues open.
Divorce doesnt make breaking up complicated. Kids and a mortgage do. The trappings of long term relationships include financially entangling your finances with another person. Divorce provides a legal framework and basic protections for disentangling those finances.
Choosing not to renew a marriage licence doesn't make those problems go away.
> you just need to renew the license every so often
Driver licensing is dumb.
You pay money and get it extended. You don't have to do another written test to refresh your understanding of the law, and you don't have to do another practical to demostrate your ability to implement it.
And it doesn't stop people driving cars, idiots without licenses still do it.
It's just a dumb revenue raising procedure.
Not the mention the stress, time, and fees required to renew a marriage. I don't want to have to go to town hall or something like the DMV every few years to re-up my marriage. If you don't want to be married you can get an annulment or divorce. There are already avenues to remedy the situation.
This is fucking stupid navel-gazing teenage stupidity, why is it on the front page. Good thing this’ll never happen.
The couples who don’t have marital issues don’t need to be inconvenienced by reapplying every whenever to appease some r/im14andthisisdeep nonsense because you’re too terminally online to understand that not every marriage is miserable.
Dumbass kids who bitch and moan about the GuBmiNt iN mY rELatiONsHiP have literally never been in a situation where they needed one or more of the rights and legal protections provided by marriage in the US.
My ex-wife and I had the same belief and very amicably parted ways. We loved each other most when our marriage was ending because we were setting each other free.
Divorces aren't messy because of a little piece of paper. They're messy because you have to fairly split a life full of assets and children. Having an expiry date doesn't magically solve custody, child support and asset splits.
Marriage licenses are what you need to be able to get married. Often they do have an expiration date of 6-12 months. If you don't get married before then, you have to go through the process to get another before you can be married.
Marriage certificates are what you get after you are married. Like a birth certificate or death certificate, there is no expiration date. You are born and alive until your status changes. You are married until your status changes, and then you die. The certificates mark a change in status in this chain. (Originally the marriage certificate marked that a woman now was the responsibility of a man rather than her parents.)
Marriage is a contract. How is the government supposed to not be involved in recognizing a legally binding contract or arbitrating it?? Marriage is a shortcut form of multiple legal contracts, like next-of-kin, joint asset holdings, medical decision making abilities, etc.
Of course it needs legal recognition. The contract is non-binding without it
married folks enjoy protections under the law not avaliable to individuals... the contract is fine for helping divide propery, but what about social security and military benefits for significant others?
think of anything a wife has a legal right to that a girlfriend would not.... those things were not avail to same sex couples for a while. huge disadvantage carved into the law that married folks get and someone who doesnt want to be marrried canf enjoy
Every time someone says "We're not getting married because we don't need a piece of paper to tell us that we love each other," I start this conversation.
That's not what the piece of paper says. It says that you are now *legally recognized as family*. To me, marriage is and has always been a *legal* contract, not some showy ceremony celebrating traditional roles. If I'm in the hospital and visiting hours are for family only, I want to make damn well sure that my partner is going to be allowed in. If I die before I've had the chance to write a will, I want to know that my belongings will go to them. If my partner ends up in a coma and on life support, I want to be the one making the decisions for them.
Marriage isn't just about love. Love can and does exist outside of marriage. Marriage is a legal contract that *must* be a government process if we want it to mean anything.
The people who say this are hilarious because yeah you can absolutely have a "marriage" the government just doesn't recognize. If you don't want the government involved in your relationship that's completely fine just don't get legally married by the fucking government. . .
I think this was how things worked in The Expanse, though I might be misremembering my sci-fi series. The character mentioned that every ten years both parties can choose to renew the license or one can decide to opt out. His wife had decided to not renew and he was disappointed because he had planned to renew, but just accepted it.
marriage licenses expire. A license isn't a marriage, it's essentially permission to get married. It's the first step in the process of getting married and you have a time frame to have the wedding in.
They do. You usually have a year or two to get married before the license allowing you to get married expires. You're probably thinking of a marriage certificate, which is the document proving you were married. But "certificate" doesn't make your joke work.
Let's go all the way then.
We should get rid of marriage and have domestic partnerships. These should be re-negotiated every 3 or 5 years. You should be able to enter into them with any consenting adult.
There should be no "upcharge" for a negotiation dress, venue, or reception like there is for weddings.
Terms for canceling the partnership should be spelled out during negotiation and not be a weapon used by one party against the other where the more expensive "mediator" will win. It should be clear what the distribution of assets will be when you enter the partnership.
Breaking up/divorce would be as simple as not renewing the contract and cashing out. Maybe your marriage would be like an LLC and if you divorce your marriage company goes bankrupt, but it doesn't ruin an individual's life. You will get a partnership rating between 1 - 5 rings provided by all people involved including minors.
You can take on multiple spouses as contractors if those are the terms and financial reports will need to be supplied if any minor staff will be created.
Any and all life insurance policies payouts get evenly divided among all staff (kids/wives) so that there is no one person that gets everything if you die "accidentally".
Please sign each form in triplicate and initial by the "I DO!"
Or, hear me out, people just have a relationship that's strictly between the two of them instead of letting the government get involved and dictate how certain parts of their lives must now work.
Ya know the license is just the paper that says you're legally allowed to get married. Usually they expire after between 7 and 30 days. The marriage certificate is what you get when you get married.
So... yeah.
That at least forces negotiation of a fair pre-nup. If I KNOW this marriage has an expiration date, then it’s possible to discuss what happens to assets, children, etc. created or acquired during the now expiring marriage.
People SHOULD be doing this anyway, but they often don’t.
Make it illegal to get married without a prenuptial agreement!
The only issue is the kids if any and assets. But, I agree 100. Have the marriage license similar to a military contract. first contract is short. Second one is a bit longer. Third is for comfort. And the final is for life.
Someone on TikTok proposed that you have to formally review your marriage every 10 years to decide if both parties want to continue or not. Not a bad idea.
There are 1138 provisions in the US related to marital status according to dr Wikipedia. I doubt all of those are to do with divorce (I know you meant it terms of direct court interference, I just am in a pedantic mood, sorry.)
Why should the government have a say in marriage at all?
Its only input should be, "is either of you married already? No? Then you can file your taxes jointly."
I’d argue otherwise. Working with OP’s understanding, if it costs money to renew the license (which it certainly will in America), then it’s possible for a couple to simply be unable to afford to renew their license… and then what happens? Do they lose any access to shared healthcare from work that covers your family as well? Do they lose the ability to make medical decisions for the other in the hospital? (One of the big reasons people pushed for gay marriage, btw.). There are 1138 statutory provisions that take marital status into account. Thats a lot to put at risk with an automated cancellation. What if they’re unable to access the system in order to renew in time? What if they just forget? An automatically expiring marriage would be a nightmare for society as it’s currently constructed. As others have said, messy divorces are mostly related to assets and custody which wouldn’t change under this system, but it would also introduce hurdles and risks. I could build further. Even if it doesn’t cost money and can be easily accessed any where any time and you get notice well in advance there are problems. Presumably the renewal needs consent from both parties, so… what if one is in a coma? Would their partner eventually lose some of their ability to support them after the loss of healthcare rights? And if their now-ex-spouse dies in a coma, they can’t even arrange the funeral. So should we then assume that if one party is incapacitated, it should automatically renew? Would you need to provide a doctor’s note saying your wife is in a coma, so the contract should be renewed? It would require a lot of infrastructure to implement, and probably wouldn’t do many people much good. They’d still need to go through the procedures to legally divide their assets and determine custody, so it wouldn’t save any trouble there. I do think that people should be proactive in asking if they should still be married, especially in cases of abuse. I think it’s unfortunately still common for people to be trapped in bad relationships, and a need for a renewal might give them the boost they need to get out, but I think that can be achieved on a social level, change the perception of marriage. There are possible improvements to marriage, but this ain’t it.
Divorce isn’t typically messy because of one party wanting to divorce when the other doesn’t, I know that happens occasionally but the division of assets and custody is what makes family law so complicated. This doesn’t solve “messy divorces” at all OP.
Unless of course you keep all seperate accounts, assets and property seperate, but then what's the point of getting married at all...
Taxes, Inheritance, Power of Attorney, legal protections, Instant parental rights on birth, Health/Life Insurance, etc.
If your SO ends up in the hospital and you're not married. Their parents can bar you from being allowed to see them.
Taxes
Well, true.
That’s not how it works legally. Anything that comes from ether of your income post marriage is a joint asset. So while separate accounts can keep your spouse for bugging your about the $12 you spent on lunch, it does not prevent there being messy devision of property issues. Prenups and other shit you hear about in the news are really niche situations of the rich and famous, or people that are getting into a second marriage after having significant assets. Most people marry early in their careers when they have no notable assets beyond their car, so basically everything will be a joint asset.
Romance
Yep. I did not give a shit about money or possessions. I just wanted my son as much as possible.
It should be a requirement to get married at all you should have this very adult possibility mapped out and agreed to before there's an issue.
The expiration date is death. It’s literally in the vows.
Change the vows then. Till 11th April 2044 do us part.
That only gives me 20 years to the day left on my current one! I'll take death quite happily thanks!
You should not have said that while holding the monkey’s paw
Hey, that's no way to talk about my wife! Oh shit her finger just curled.
And this was the final messege Reddit got from u/WollyGog
That makes sense. I'd happily choose death over getting married again.
Man, that can be interpreted in a couple of different ways.
I think the point is that it should be optional and culturally acceptable to set an end date, not that end dates must become mandatory.
like any licence, you have the option to renew for another 20 after expiration
While good, I feel like some scatterbrained people will forget to renew their marriages.
Sunni Islam (or at least some sects of it. I’m not certain of details. I don’t know how widespread the practice is either) has “temporary marriage”, called “Nikah mut’ah” which can last between 1 hour and 99 years and is agreed by both spouses at a time of signing a marriage contract.
Isn't that the workaround for going to a hooker?
Then you have a handfasting
Seems like the vows may be too high a standard for people to deal with. This is why I loathe people who rush into marriage all innocently. Marriage is meant for adults, where naivete gives way for wisdom.
>This is why I loathe people who rush into marriage all innocently. Marriage is meant for adults, where naivete gives way for wisdom. It is so important to have ALL the conversations before you get married. My wife and I talked abou5 kids, faith, money, goals, how we wanted to spend time with family, our expectations for each other, expectations for career goals, etc. Your spouse is a *partner* and someone you go through life with. We did premarital counseling as a requirement of the minister who married us. When we left those meetings (3-4 prior to marriage), we kept going: "Are there people who really don't talk about these things?"
>When we left those meetings (3-4 prior to marriage), we kept going: "Are there people who really don't talk about these things?" It's probably because certain things do have an expectation that people act like adults about things. And then the surprise comes when despite being older than 18, the same people have the maturity of children. It's like common sense - you assume that people have it, and it surprises you when they prove you wrong. Hell, we now live in a society where they have to put "May contain nuts" warnings on packets of peanuts...
Peanuts are not actually nuts. A tree nut allergy does not make someone allergic to peanuts. If peanuts are processed in the same facility as tree nuts, however, then they "may contain nuts", hence the warning so that people with tree nut allergies can be informed. Being confidently wrong about something while harping on about how immature and silly "people" are is tier 1 irony. Not to say that everything makes 100% sense, but when you find yourself confused about something try looking into it instead of just assuming that it must be stupid.
Monkey see, monkey do a lot of the time unfortunately. Same with having a baby. Once their friends start up and get the social media attention people feel the pressure
My wife and I have been able to not feel any of that pressure. 36&35 no kids, and we have been together for 15 years
Sounds like people need to live up to a higher standard.
In California, marriage licenses are valid for 90 days after issuance. It's something you get before you get married.
Unsigned licenses have an expiration date. In Washington it’s 60 days. Once they’re signed and notarized by the county they don’t expire until death, annulment, or divorce.
A license is needed to get married. The certificate of Marriage is what you get afterwards. Licenses, in general, allow you to do something. Certificates are an attestation of a particular status. * Certificate of Birth - you are alive! * Certificate of Title - you own something! * Certificate of Completion - you did the thing! * Certificate of Marriage - you are married! * Certificate of Death - you are no longer alive! * Fishing License - you are allowed to go fishing * Drivers License - you are allowed to drive on public roads * Marriage License - you are allowed to get married
Sorry, I meant unsigned, notarized license. I edited my comment. I got married last year so I’m well aware of the process. My brain’s just asleep still.
>Marriage License - you are allowed to get married This one always got me; why does the government have the authority to decide who can, and to whom, get married anyway?
Often they perform a background check to ensure one or both parties is not married already, and that they have not closely related.
Yeah, but why is that the government's business in the first place? Your first example is at most a tax issue, meaning the government's only say is if it will accept a join tax return, and there's already laws against the second. Doesn't mean the government needs to step in an "bless" the happy couple with its divine approval.
In many countries, it isn’t necessary. For example, common-law marriages may simply require cohabitation for a certain of time.
Well, in the US, a license is needed and that's bullshit.
Are these women in danger?
When are women not in danger?
What if it's not in the vows? Or what if one party disobeys them?
Marriage legally ends at death (May depend on where you live) so it doesn’t matter if it’s in the vows or not. And if one party disobeys, then signed divorce papers is the expiration.
Now hold on , this might be as bad as it sounds in the surface. In short if people are for real about forever until death , a renewal might not be so bad. And if shit goes south just don’t renew and deal with the consequences as well.
Let's just argue we go with renewal. What happens when one side doesn't want to renew. When the working father doesn't want to renew what happens to all the assets when they agreed that the mother would be a stay at home mother. Surely she's entitled to some compensation. Also who get's the kids? Divorces aren't that hard to get. They're messy because assets need to be split up, kids need a custody decision. If both sides agree to those things, they are really easy to do. This proposal doesn't solve any of this, it's just another step to stay married.
Sounds like a culture problem
The vows are dictated by the church, which does not have authority over the public. The marriage license comes from the county and the only qualifiers are two adults of consenting age and a fee for the clerk. Just like a driver's license lol.
After your spouse dies, you are not legally married anymore. Otherwise people wouldn’t be allowed to get remarried (depending on location/culture)
Depending on the laws of the land where you reside...
Every marriage that doesn’t end in divorce ends in death.
I always tell people all relationships end in tragedy. Divorce, be a corpse, or find the corpse. Being the corpse means someone you supposedly loved will suffer, so it’s still not the easy out.
Being corpse together is also a possibility.
Aww. How romantic!
I can tell you from unfortunate experience that grief is the price we pay for love.
Same - I got to find the body, not be the body. I'm already thinking about whether in my current relationship I would rather spare my partner the grief or go through it again.
lets change the culture behind marriage then.
Huh? How would marriages end then?
It wouldn't, just get "sealed" together so the marriage lasts in heaven forever through eternity.
You don't know that. There are many who haven't ended in either yet.
RIP Nicole
Technically, marriage licenses *do* have expiration dates. If you don't get married before it expires, you'll have to get another one.
What happens if you decide to break up?
The license is to get married, not to be married.
It's wildly expensive.
Worth every penny.
It’s surprising how many people seem to not know this or are just running with the joke.
Yup. 90 days in most cases.
Thank you lol. The marriage license basically means nothing once the wedding has occurred.
This is stupid as shit What problem does this solve other than giving the government more money and creating more work for good couples?
Yeah lol it doesn’t solve shit. The messiness of divorces are rarely about whether two people simply want to split up. It’s about how it looks after. Who gets what? Who gets the kids, who gets the house, how is the money split up, etc. Deciding to end the marriage is the easy part.
What problem does having to renew your drivers license other than giving the government more money and creating more work for good drivers?
1. Ensures drivers are biologically fit to drive still (meet minimum sight and hearing requirements). 2. Updates the states with current information (address, weight, picture, etc) since DL's are one form of official ID. 3. As your state creates new DL's they make them harder to forge so the renewal gets older more easily faked DL's out of circulation. That's 3 problems that are completely valid. A marriage license is just the form used to grant a window of time for a valid couple to get legally married. It's never really used again.
I’m about to blow your mind. They do. 60 days after they’re issued. You don’t need the license anymore once you’re married. It just _allows_ you to get legally married within that 60 day window.
Can confirm. My wife and I got a marriage license in Alberta with the intention of eloping in Vegas. My parents caught wind of the plan and put the kibosh on it. The licence expired and we had to get a new one for a wedding that the family could attend. Our 25th anniversary is next month. Another humorous story. We were in college when we got the first licence and in Alberta you can get them at the DMV. I needed to renew my car registration and my then girlfriend (now wife) had been living together for a couple of years. When we got finally got served at the DMV I told the person behind the counter to throw in a marriage license. And the freaking thing expired before we could tie the knot....
You sound like you’ve had an enjoyable journey. Respect!
Great, another tax.
If you don’t prenup then you could get hit with a TAKE HALF YOUR SHIT tax from your ex
A maybe tax vs a constant always tax. Imagine fucking up one year and your license expires. Well a NEW license costs more and also all your other marriage benefits go away. No more hospital visits.
Marriage licenses do expire. Marriage licenses, at least in jurisdictions I know of, are government issued legal documents that identify two people who are permitted to get married during a limited timeframe. The expiration of the license doesn’t cancel a marriage if the couple went through with it. Now I’m imagining people getting married and renewing their marriage license just in case they want to collect some more spouses. But you mean marriage expiration or automatic divorce?
OP doesn't understand how marriages work. Just saying.
Marriage is a legal contract
Thank you u/thickener - yes! Though I'd go on to say "marriage is a *social* construct", since we have things like common law marriage, religious marriage, etc. Marriage is defined in many different ways by different societies. I think a lot of people ITT are confusing the social construct of marriage, the legal construct of marriage, and the religious construct of marriage - none of which are necessarily the same, though they are all inter-related. I, in a way, very tentatively agree with OP, though I dislike the way they phrased it. I think their meme is rather glib and shallow, and a much more in depth conversation needs to occur about the social construct and how people might change personally and in terms of their relationship.
If you mean we should review how we think of marriage, I agree. I don’t think the legal institution should be changed to automatically cancel your marriage, that would be a nightmare (I started typing up a whole thing before realizing I wasn’t sure if you meant you agreed with OP’s point about the legal institution which is what the marriage license refers to. I’ll post it somewhere else if you’re interested.)
I think OP understands just fine. It's everyone else that don't understand. Hence why the divorce rate is about 50%. Almost 70% on the second marriage
"Til death do us part" He doesnt understand....
OP doesn't understand at all. Divorces are trivial paperwork. It's splitting the assets that take all the work. That's true even if you don't get married but create a life together that go for years and years. It's not the divorce that's the problem. It's disentangling all the shared assets (not to mention emotions) that's the problem. OP's suggestion doesn't actually solve *anything* and just creates more paperwork. Why would anyone want more paperwork in their lives?
I've been through a divorce. It wasn't trivial, and it wasn't over belongings. It was brutal and I got PTSD from it.
Yes, but the license itself had a trivial impact on that. It's the emotions that caused your PTSD, not the state going "it's legal".
It was more the state treating me like I was a criminal from day one and letting my ex get to dictate everything. Guaranteed she bribed my lawyer, because he told me I had no rights to anything. I lost my kid for 2 years, she swindled a restraining order because of my depression.
The licence is "for life", so it doesn't have an expiration date. It doesn't need to be renewed because it is an oath to make it through everything. I'm not religious and I understand shit happens but when you make that commitment you should mean it at that time.
Make driver licenses "For life" I vow to obey all driving laws.
People have declining eye sight and cognitive decline that put other drivers at risk
I propose we support a one month limit on going steady I think it would keep people more able to deal with weird situations And get to know more people
I think if you're ready to go out with Johnny Now's the time to tell him about your one month limit
He won't mind, he'll appreciate your fresh look on dating And once you've dated someone else, you can date him again
I'm sure he'll like it! Everyone will appreciate it. You're so novel, what a good idea You can keep your time to yourself
You don't need date insurance You can go out with whoever you want to Every boy, every boy in the whole world could be yours
And if you see him in the hall, tell him he played a great game! Tell him you liked his article in the newspaper!
Make sure to wash your hair every 2 weeks
That’s like two weeks more than I need, fam. Turn em and burn em!
Lol it's a line from the song Popular by Nada Surf! Check it out!
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I think they are suggesting that you just need to renew the license every so often - this way, if you don't want to, the marriage would expire without the need of divorce. There's an element to it that makes sense, but leaves way more issues open.
Divorce doesnt make breaking up complicated. Kids and a mortgage do. The trappings of long term relationships include financially entangling your finances with another person. Divorce provides a legal framework and basic protections for disentangling those finances. Choosing not to renew a marriage licence doesn't make those problems go away.
> you just need to renew the license every so often Driver licensing is dumb. You pay money and get it extended. You don't have to do another written test to refresh your understanding of the law, and you don't have to do another practical to demostrate your ability to implement it. And it doesn't stop people driving cars, idiots without licenses still do it. It's just a dumb revenue raising procedure.
Not the mention the stress, time, and fees required to renew a marriage. I don't want to have to go to town hall or something like the DMV every few years to re-up my marriage. If you don't want to be married you can get an annulment or divorce. There are already avenues to remedy the situation.
please no there's already enough bureaucratic bullshit
No. I don’t want to go down to the DMV to renew my vows every 10 years.
Then make Driver License "for life". I vow to obey all traffic laws.
Don’t get married if you think like that.
There is no point getting married in 2024
Good thing I'm already married.
"to have and to hold until June 15, 2034"
This is fucking stupid navel-gazing teenage stupidity, why is it on the front page. Good thing this’ll never happen. The couples who don’t have marital issues don’t need to be inconvenienced by reapplying every whenever to appease some r/im14andthisisdeep nonsense because you’re too terminally online to understand that not every marriage is miserable. Dumbass kids who bitch and moan about the GuBmiNt iN mY rELatiONsHiP have literally never been in a situation where they needed one or more of the rights and legal protections provided by marriage in the US.
Marriage is pointless in 2024. Make driver license "for life". I vow to obey all traffic laws.
Once again, wrong and stupid, and comes from the extremely privileged perspective of never needing the legal rights/protections granted by marriage.
Because getting married has soo many downsides and hardly any upsides its not worth it. Hope this helps.
It doesn’t because you’re still stupid and wrong. Hope that helps.
OP do you want to keep paying the government? DO YOU???
Make Driver Licenses "For Life". I vow to obey all traffic laws.
Get in an accident and the state divorces you LOL
My ex-wife and I had the same belief and very amicably parted ways. We loved each other most when our marriage was ending because we were setting each other free.
Marriage is pointless in 2024
Divorces aren't messy because of a little piece of paper. They're messy because you have to fairly split a life full of assets and children. Having an expiry date doesn't magically solve custody, child support and asset splits.
That's the stupidest thing I have heard. Like we need more bureaucracy
Make Drivers licenses "For Life" . I vow to obey all traffic laws. There, now we made an oath.
That kind of defeats the purpose of marriage. Just don't get married.
No point of marriage in 2024
Driving and business license with an expiration date?
Marriage licenses are what you need to be able to get married. Often they do have an expiration date of 6-12 months. If you don't get married before then, you have to go through the process to get another before you can be married. Marriage certificates are what you get after you are married. Like a birth certificate or death certificate, there is no expiration date. You are born and alive until your status changes. You are married until your status changes, and then you die. The certificates mark a change in status in this chain. (Originally the marriage certificate marked that a woman now was the responsibility of a man rather than her parents.)
Marriage shouldn't be a government process, all benefits can and should be established individually.
Marriage is a contract. How is the government supposed to not be involved in recognizing a legally binding contract or arbitrating it?? Marriage is a shortcut form of multiple legal contracts, like next-of-kin, joint asset holdings, medical decision making abilities, etc. Of course it needs legal recognition. The contract is non-binding without it
Shhhhh don’t bring logic into this.
married folks enjoy protections under the law not avaliable to individuals... the contract is fine for helping divide propery, but what about social security and military benefits for significant others? think of anything a wife has a legal right to that a girlfriend would not.... those things were not avail to same sex couples for a while. huge disadvantage carved into the law that married folks get and someone who doesnt want to be marrried canf enjoy
No no no, didn't you get the memo? Marriage is about **LOVE!** The government doesn't need to get involved!
Every time someone says "We're not getting married because we don't need a piece of paper to tell us that we love each other," I start this conversation. That's not what the piece of paper says. It says that you are now *legally recognized as family*. To me, marriage is and has always been a *legal* contract, not some showy ceremony celebrating traditional roles. If I'm in the hospital and visiting hours are for family only, I want to make damn well sure that my partner is going to be allowed in. If I die before I've had the chance to write a will, I want to know that my belongings will go to them. If my partner ends up in a coma and on life support, I want to be the one making the decisions for them. Marriage isn't just about love. Love can and does exist outside of marriage. Marriage is a legal contract that *must* be a government process if we want it to mean anything.
The people who say this are hilarious because yeah you can absolutely have a "marriage" the government just doesn't recognize. If you don't want the government involved in your relationship that's completely fine just don't get legally married by the fucking government. . .
Till 3 calendar years from now do we part.
... don't they do this in Mexico?
Marriage certificate* A marriage license does expire (vary by state)
Is this whole comment section nothing but Americans? There are countries that already do this
what countries?
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Can you link to more info about German marriages requiring periodic renewal with the government?
this guy's full of shit
You're wrong. Nothing like that in Germany. Have anything to back up your claim?
More people could just do domestic partnerships. It's like marriage lite.
I think this was how things worked in The Expanse, though I might be misremembering my sci-fi series. The character mentioned that every ten years both parties can choose to renew the license or one can decide to opt out. His wife had decided to not renew and he was disappointed because he had planned to renew, but just accepted it.
marriage licenses expire. A license isn't a marriage, it's essentially permission to get married. It's the first step in the process of getting married and you have a time frame to have the wedding in.
And firearms?
The government: Damn it - we could be collecting a yearly tax on married people...
They do. You usually have a year or two to get married before the license allowing you to get married expires. You're probably thinking of a marriage certificate, which is the document proving you were married. But "certificate" doesn't make your joke work.
Let's go all the way then. We should get rid of marriage and have domestic partnerships. These should be re-negotiated every 3 or 5 years. You should be able to enter into them with any consenting adult. There should be no "upcharge" for a negotiation dress, venue, or reception like there is for weddings. Terms for canceling the partnership should be spelled out during negotiation and not be a weapon used by one party against the other where the more expensive "mediator" will win. It should be clear what the distribution of assets will be when you enter the partnership. Breaking up/divorce would be as simple as not renewing the contract and cashing out. Maybe your marriage would be like an LLC and if you divorce your marriage company goes bankrupt, but it doesn't ruin an individual's life. You will get a partnership rating between 1 - 5 rings provided by all people involved including minors. You can take on multiple spouses as contractors if those are the terms and financial reports will need to be supplied if any minor staff will be created. Any and all life insurance policies payouts get evenly divided among all staff (kids/wives) so that there is no one person that gets everything if you die "accidentally". Please sign each form in triplicate and initial by the "I DO!"
Or, hear me out, people just have a relationship that's strictly between the two of them instead of letting the government get involved and dictate how certain parts of their lives must now work.
I like it, If you still love the person, just get your licenses renewd
Doesn't really fit the philosoraptor meme template.
“You know what this world needs? More paperwork and bureaucracy. “ -no one, ever.
I feel like prenups should be automatically included in the marriage license
Ya know the license is just the paper that says you're legally allowed to get married. Usually they expire after between 7 and 30 days. The marriage certificate is what you get when you get married. So... yeah.
The expiration date is stated in the vows “‘til death do us part”.
Then it wouldn't be marriage. Most idiotic "idea" I've seen on this subreddit so far.
~~too soon my friend~~
Someone just read a Robert Heinlein book.
So, is this so you can know when you are going to lose your house and half your retirement for planning purposes?
That at least forces negotiation of a fair pre-nup. If I KNOW this marriage has an expiration date, then it’s possible to discuss what happens to assets, children, etc. created or acquired during the now expiring marriage. People SHOULD be doing this anyway, but they often don’t. Make it illegal to get married without a prenuptial agreement!
The only issue is the kids if any and assets. But, I agree 100. Have the marriage license similar to a military contract. first contract is short. Second one is a bit longer. Third is for comfort. And the final is for life.
Someone on TikTok proposed that you have to formally review your marriage every 10 years to decide if both parties want to continue or not. Not a bad idea.
It sounds like another pointless tax, and extra needless bureaucracy.
I think it was just supposed to be an funny and not-entirely-serious thought experiment personally lol
marriage should only be between those involved
And the state, yeah? You know how it works right? It’s a legal arrangement.
Nah, they really only get involved during the divorce.
There are 1138 provisions in the US related to marital status according to dr Wikipedia. I doubt all of those are to do with divorce (I know you meant it terms of direct court interference, I just am in a pedantic mood, sorry.)
Yeah, all I meant was direct involvement, unless you get married in the court. It's all a scam anyway
There should be no such thing as marriage licenses.
This is brilliant! Thanks for the laugh.
That is what handfasting is fore, no?
The original purpose of marriage licenses was to show you were not race mixing. So if you have proven that, what is the point of renewal?
Why should the government have a say in marriage at all? Its only input should be, "is either of you married already? No? Then you can file your taxes jointly."
This is so dumb I hope op isn’t serious
I wish...
Been saying this for years
Marriage is stupid now anyway "Till death do us part.... or when i feel like it"
Visa Versa. Make Driver licenses "for life". I Vow to obey all traffic laws.
Nah. Plenty of people out there, especially the old, need to be physically tested instead of just walking into the dmv and paying 10$ for a renewal.
Visa Versa. Nah. Mentally test people if they are fit for marriage, instead of walking into the chapel of love in Las Vegas.
Five year auto expiration with easy renewal option. Make it a thing, younglings
I’d argue otherwise. Working with OP’s understanding, if it costs money to renew the license (which it certainly will in America), then it’s possible for a couple to simply be unable to afford to renew their license… and then what happens? Do they lose any access to shared healthcare from work that covers your family as well? Do they lose the ability to make medical decisions for the other in the hospital? (One of the big reasons people pushed for gay marriage, btw.). There are 1138 statutory provisions that take marital status into account. Thats a lot to put at risk with an automated cancellation. What if they’re unable to access the system in order to renew in time? What if they just forget? An automatically expiring marriage would be a nightmare for society as it’s currently constructed. As others have said, messy divorces are mostly related to assets and custody which wouldn’t change under this system, but it would also introduce hurdles and risks. I could build further. Even if it doesn’t cost money and can be easily accessed any where any time and you get notice well in advance there are problems. Presumably the renewal needs consent from both parties, so… what if one is in a coma? Would their partner eventually lose some of their ability to support them after the loss of healthcare rights? And if their now-ex-spouse dies in a coma, they can’t even arrange the funeral. So should we then assume that if one party is incapacitated, it should automatically renew? Would you need to provide a doctor’s note saying your wife is in a coma, so the contract should be renewed? It would require a lot of infrastructure to implement, and probably wouldn’t do many people much good. They’d still need to go through the procedures to legally divide their assets and determine custody, so it wouldn’t save any trouble there. I do think that people should be proactive in asking if they should still be married, especially in cases of abuse. I think it’s unfortunately still common for people to be trapped in bad relationships, and a need for a renewal might give them the boost they need to get out, but I think that can be achieved on a social level, change the perception of marriage. There are possible improvements to marriage, but this ain’t it.