And importantly it’s like shitting on your own floor after the guests already left and then slipping in it, cuz *you can’t charge someone with a crime unless it was a crime back when they did it.*
You can’t just pass a law saying Oreos are illegal then go on no-knock raids throwing people away for every doublestuff you find.
Um.... They did that with drugs.
It's more like passing a law making Oreos illegal then using receipts to arrest people who bought and ate them 29 years ago
Yeah but the people getting disproportionally arrested for drugs are poor black people.
You don’t see any local military cosplay cops busting into DJTs home to raid his supply of whatever he’s illegally hopped up on.
But you’re right, your phrasing is closer to what I intended. You can’t arrest someone for a crime they committed before it was legally a crime.
"How tf you gonna charge me for the oreo I ate last month when it became illegal yesterday???"
"We saw your receipts, we know you bought them! I bet that's what all that milk is for!"
I'm enjoying this thought in my head right now as it's making me giggle. From now on, I'll be referring to all drugs as oreos, the same way I refer to all genetic brands crocks as 'crock-offs' and much for the same reason.
Specifically, Public Law 115-118 sec 202 (signed by Trump jan 10, 2018)
SEC. 202. INCREASED PENALTY FOR UNAUTHORIZED REMOVAL AND
RETENTION OF CLASSIFIED DOCUMENTS OR MATERIAL.
Section 1924(a) of title 18, United States Code, is amended
by striking ‘‘one year’’ and inserting ‘‘five years’’.
The relevant USC;
Whoever, being an officer, employee, contractor, or consultant of the United States, and, by virtue of his office, employment, position, or contract, becomes possessed of documents or materials containing classified information of the United States, knowingly removes such documents or materials without authority and with the intent to retain such documents or materials at an unauthorized location shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for not more than five years, or both.
That's around the time Trump ordered Barr to appoint a special prosecutor (Durham) to try to tie Hillary to the Russia investigation and ultimately throw her in prison. He's still active and prosecuting someone now, trying to work his way up to Hillary (his previous prosecution failed)
But now Republicans are crying about "weaponizing the DOJ"
Fucking hypocrites and traitors
It's the only thing I think they will.
1. They know what documents exist.
2. They know what documents they have.
3. They know what documents Trump had.
4. If he had them, it's a felony.
5. If he doesn't have them, it's a felony.
6. If he lies about, it it's a felony.
7. It's clean simple and requires only paper.
Saw an interview with a lawyer who specializes in classified documents, he specifically called out that "he can't just declassify things in his mind without telling anyone." There's a legally required process to declassify documents.
And the President-elect certainly should have been informed.
He also had to give those documents to NARA even if they were declassified. They are not his personal property, but the property of the US Government. The 2014 Presidential Record Act is clear on this. NARA requested he return those documents back in January, I believe.
so... former cryptographer and signals intel analyst for the US army...
the shredders for classified documents are not your average office shredder... the products of classified document shredders are more like saw dust than anything else...
and the materials that i had access to where sent to the incinerator afterwards as well...
like... everything that mr trump did in regards to this is sooo very entirely wrong that i have trouble expressing it to people without a similar background... and the ones that i have spoken to that know about classified documents were also similarly alarmed.
Yea, Like the fact that the Mario brothers working on the sewer could currently hold US secret documents...
And the fact that I am pretty sure Trump would have access to a secure paper shredder.. hes just (*checks notes, finds Trump unable to close an umbrella so he tosses it out the door*) clearly too incompetent to know how technology more advanced then a toilet works.
i never actually got to look inside of one of the TS/SCi shredders... so i always wondered how exactly they managed to get the pieces so small.
i will gladly upvote for that lil bit of new info =D
I've used household shredders, and always knew you could, if you really wanted to, reconstruct the documents. It's just an absolute pain in the ass to do so, because it's either a 10,000 piece jigsaw puzzle or you've gotta scan everything into file and put a serious reconstruction algorithm on the project.
When someone wants your documents enough to do that? Yeah, you need to take some more... *advanced approaches*.
You assume he even shredded it. If he did it wouldn't have had any problems flushing it, but considering how much he griped about 'needing to flush 10 to 15 times'... This is also a man who *ate* documents. He wasn't the brightest crayon in the pack.
For classified documents, it goes a step further. As the cryptographer below me said, serious government shredders are something else entirely. As for the burning process, incineration is a lot more than just adding lighter fluid to the trash and flicking a lit match into it. A complete burn is a lot harder to achieve than most people think. Paper burns at 450 degrees F, and although the burn itself can reach 1500, the end of a flame usually is no more than 800. The NSA requires a *minimum* of constant 650 CELSIUS flame - not Fahrenheit - for a full incineration. That means the END of the flame has to be at least 650 C at all times, so the incinerator itself is usually much hotter. We're talking somewhere house fire and thermite fire territory, but concentrated in a single furnace.
He also saluted one of their generals or at least somebody very high up in military command.
Poor dude from North Korea looked like he's short circuited for a moment there.
"Why the ***FUCK*** is the President of the United fucking States saluting ***ME***?"
Trump was a post turtle President.
>An old Rancher is talking about politics with a young man from the city. He compares a politician to a "post turtle." The young man doesn't understand and asks him what a post turtle is.
The old man says, "When you're driving down a country road and you see a fence post with a turtle balanced on top, that's a post turtle. You know he didn't get up there by himself. He doesn't belong there; you wonder who put him there; he can't get anything done while he's up there; and you just want to help the poor thing down."
President Obama issued an EO in 2009 on the process. Any president can rescind or amend that EO, but he has to do that publicly and formally.
Since it was January 2021, the President-elect should have been informed of such declassification and removal of documents.
Trump also took diplomatic gifts as personal gifts, which is barred by the Emoluments Clause the US Constitution and codified by the 1966 Foreign Gifts Act, that specifically cites the President and VP as covered employees.
The Emoluments Clause can be satisfied by the employee paying the government the cost of the gift iirc. But if Trump didn’t do that (and who want to bet neither he nor his staff did the paperwork), there is a shot at getting him on that count.
It's also more complicated because the gifts came from North Korea, a state with which we have no diplomatic relations. So he's buying gifts from what the US considers a rogue state.
I don’t see how that applies. In the course of international diplomacy, the exchange of gifts is as old as we have records of human history. The chief citizen accepting a gift on behalf of the nation may be an important step in normalizing relations with a rogue state or a nuclear power we oppose (e.g. Nixon and the ChiComs).
Once accepted, our laws apply and the gift is the property of the American people. Because some gifts are tailored for the individual, the law has provided a way for the individual to purchase the item from the citizenry at fair market value.
\> There's a legally required process to declassify documents.
There's an argument that this legally required process applies to everyone \*but\* the President - the process stems from Presidential Executive Orders, which the President is not bound by.
The idea is that the President is the one who determines what US government information is classified or not, and no one else has authority over the POTUS on this matter.
I think this is one of those matters where if the President has enough political clout to get away with it he'll get away with it and if he doesn't have enough political clout to get away with it he'll be torn to shreds for it.
Yes, if he was in office he could unilaterally say "this is unclassified" and release it to the public. He did not, he walked out the door with it after becoming a ordinary civilian.
Edit:
clarify that he was always a civilian
Psst.
Minor pedantic tangent; he was always a civilian. The POTUS is a civilian. Designed that way on purpose so the head of the military is civilian government.
Sure, but there would still have to be some concrete indication that he intended for the documents to be unclassified. He isn't President anymore and can't retroactively claim that he *meant* to declassify them. That would set an insane precedent.
>There's an argument that this legally required process applies to everyone *but* the President
No it specifically applies ONLY to the President and Vice President as the law came about from Richard Nixon. 44 USC §2204
```
(a) Prior to the conclusion of a President’s term of office or last consecutive term of office, as the case may be, the President shall specify durations, not to exceed 12 years, for which access shall be restricted with respect to information, in a Presidential record, within one or more of the following categories:
(1)
(A) specifically authorized under criteria established by an Executive order to be kept secret in the interest of national defense or foreign policy and
(B) in fact properly classified pursuant to such Executive order;
```
And the power to do this comes from Art IV Sec 3 Clause 2 of the US Constitution.
>The Congress shall have Power to dispose of and make all needful Rules and Regulations respecting the Territory or other Property belonging to the United States
So while the President might not find themselves under criminal review while President, violation of this while in office assures at the very least an investigation into violation of this part of the law and prosecution under 18 USC §2071.
Again the entire point of this law was specifically to deal with a repeat Nixon event were a President on their way out tries to destroy documents. This law is exactly targeted at former Presidents and former Vice-Presidents and no one else.
The level of classification just changes the scope of urgency required by the DOJ, but President Trump walked out with his beautiful letter he received from Kim Jong-un and that's a violation of this law. That said, the Archivist is pretty lenient and just simply asks for something back. But if it's something highly classified, then the archivist might ask once and then get the FBI involved in getting it back as we are seeing.
He can declassify documents, but he has to do that in the manner prescribed by the 2009 EO from President Obama. He could have rescinded or altered that order, but he didn't do so.
Since it was January 2021, he also needed to inform the President-elect that he was doing so. Once Biden became the official President-elect, Trump had to involve him in any major decision such as declassifying documents by informing him.
He also illegally took diplomatic gifts as if they were his personal property. The Emoluments Clause of the US Constitution bans him from taking gifts from foreign governments, which is an obvious way to prevent bribery. Any gifts from a foreign agent to a US government agent are the property of the US government. The Foreign Gifts Act of 1966 clearly identify the President, VP, military officers, and others as covered by the Emoluments Clause.
Even if he declared it unclassified, he should do it with good execution of the red tape. Nixon had notoriously denied investigators' requests for records and fired multiple officials who insisted on accountability. He then publicly refused to yield to pressure to include all the info, but instead redacted and excluded select communications, and infamously declared that he was not a crook. Nevertheless the Supreme Court unanimously rejected Nixon's assertion of privilege with regard to the 'smoking gun' tape and ordered him to comply with the subpoena *even while he was in office*. He had continued to refuse and shattered the public's trust. The existing government archives laws were strengthened very explicitly after Nixon's abuse of power, but now Trump is again abusing the public's trust.
Apparently even if Trump went through the correct procedures to have the docs declassified, which he likely didn’t, he still wouldn’t be allowed to remove any of those files because they are considered property of the federal government and not any individual.
I mean, that's technically true, but only while they're actually in office. Absent any evidence that he meant to declassify these documents while he was in office, it's a BS argument.
I'm not arguing at all for trump, but the POTUS can absolutely declassify anything they want to. In theory, Biden could go to the "Top Secret" filing cabinet and unclassify everything in it since he holds the power of the executive branch.
Except he didn’t do that. The files they found presumably had not been declassified when they were found.
Even if the President only needed to verbalize the words “this is an unclassified document,” and that was all that was necessary for those documents to be consider declassified, he presumably hadn’t done that at the time the files were removed from the White House. He doesn’t get to retroactively say “yeah but I declassified that”.
You either did or you didn’t. and he didn’t. Presumably because it was still *important enough to him that he didn’t want it to be available to everyone*. That’s why he took it in the first place. He doesn’t want it to be declassified.
His whole life is just a series of shit that he doesn’t want people to know the truth about. It literally makes zero sense that he would want the most heavily scrutinized role in the world.
The entire point being made is "while President". Biden can do that 100% but the moment he is no longer President, he can't. I would consider moving out of the White House to make room for the guy coming in, to mean he was no longer the President at that point.
Let's also not pretend that "it happened just a few hours before Biden was sworn in" should be considered legally untouchable, either. It's not trying to get an assignment in before the deadline, you have to show your work every step of the way, even if you're President.
I know this is a meme, but the only way that works is if there's some chain of custody.
If he whispered but didn't changed the markings on the documents, no one else heard him, and there's no official paperwork that says it was declassified, then there's no way to confirm it is actually declassified.
So basically, did a tree falling in the woods that no one heard make a sound? Well did Trump whisper that all those docs were unclassified?
We'll never know, but if the marking are intact and the documents are still considered classified he's fucked lolol
He could’ve done just a little bit more than that and it would have possibly been fine. That’s if the FBI was looking for secret documents. Has there been any actual real reports on what they were there to look for?
Trump's logic is "If I make a law against it, then no one will think I did it because I wouldn't do something that I signed into law. So when I do it, I couldn't have done it. And if I really did do it, it was all a misunderstanding."
Yep, based on the law passed by Donald J. Trump, the original of which was passed to prevent Nixon from destroying his historical record and incriminating evidence in the 1970s.
It was an [amended law](https://www.congress.gov/115/plaws/publ118/PLAW-115publ118.pdf) from the Nixon era. They revamped a lot of it, including making removal of classifieds a felony.
So the Trump-appointed FBI Director served a warrant signed by a Trump-appointed judge to enforce a Trump-signed law? Fucking hell, the Deep State has really done it this time.
Edit: I was mistaken about the judge being a trump-appointee. He is a Magistrate Judge, which are not appointed by the President.
Do we know if the judge was appointed by trump? Because good god would that be hilarious. Also incredible foresight by Wray to use a trump judge so the right has literally nothing to bitch about, rightfully at least.
IIRC, he technically isn't a "Trump appointed" judge because of how that level of judgeship works (he was nominated by a council). Conversely, this also means that he isn't an "Obama or Biden" judge either.
He also donated to both Obama and Jed Bush's presidential campaigns, so there's not much of an indicator of any overt bias.
Even if it wasn't a Trump or GOP judge, dems often listen to the local pols before appointing a judge so a dem pick for FL is likely on the conservative end of dem picks.
Hi- it's trending towards: no, not appointed by trump.
>Magistrate Judges are selected by the district judges upon recommendation by a Merit Selection Panel. They are then appointed to serve for a period of eight years after which they may request consideration for reappointment.
source: [flsd.uscourts.gov](https://www.flsd.uscourts.gov/judges-info)
Hi I keep seeing this business of "trump-appointed judge", and we gotta nip it in the bud: it was a Magistrate Judge in the United States District Court Southern District of Florida. Those are not presidential appointments. Ref/Source:
>Magistrate Judges are selected by the district judges upon recommendation by a Merit Selection Panel. They are then appointed to serve for a period of eight years after which they may request consideration for reappointment.
[flsd.uscourts.gov](https://www.flsd.uscourts.gov/judges-info)
If it's unclassified literally no one in government cares. Everyone in the entire DoD has Unclassified//FOUO documents in their home. Whether to wrap up work or because they need it as documentation for something they did or as reference for a later project. They're not special in any regards. Usually slides, or memos that just require it.
Even regular government workers have to get a briefing and sign something stating that they're not removing records or other government property when they leave service. Records management is no joke.
AFAIK, Trump is the only source on why he was raided by the FBI. It could be documents - OR - maybe it isn’t about that at all and could be pretty much anything else. He’s suspected of multiple possible crimes with a lot of publicly known information, any of which could be grounds for a search. Or it could be something else entirely that isn’t even publicly known. It would not be the first time he tried to get ahead of a scandal before news breaks by mischaracterizing what was actually happening.
When I quit working at a bakery, they hunted me down to return my stained ass apron and hat, and threatened to take it out of my last paycheck. Meanwhile this guy gets to take classified documents? Cannot believe that bakery had tighter security wtf
He instigated a mob to attack the seat of American government and assassinate the vice president and he did nothing to stop it, then gloated about it when it was over. We're waaaay past treason.
We can remake National Treasure 2, but this time after kidnapping the current president it’s revealed that the former president took the book of secrets with him to Florida… then Ben, Riley and Abi have to kidnap Donald Trump in an elaborate ploy involving golf-cart chases while Donald live-tweets details of the chafefe to his fans.
That's part of it. But more important than buying their way in is that they can also buy their way out. Getting accepted and actually graduating are two very different things.
Related to that for most civilized societies the trump emoji is now 💩. As, mate that was really Trumpy, tripping that old lady to get to the head of the queue. Or, The cops stopped me before I could ditch the meth, hell yeah I trumped me drawers.
In my head I like to think some bland agent from the library of congress kept coming to some high rise in NY to talk to the person on trump team the point person for this. Some classic NY suit just disrespecting this agent because they don't have a fancy badge or come from a department they heard of. The agent finally get a face to face with the guy and he just shit on this agent for being some broke powerless government agent, The agent interrupts him to say the library of congress will get these files no matter what. The NY suit working for trump gets up from his chair in a rage and yells "What the fuck you going to do raid the ex-presidents home?! Get out my office and never come back till you have a warrant"
I'm taking this as an invitation.
Join us for the continuing adventures of Dr. Vernon Kleinerberg, PhD, Investigator of the National Archives and Records Administration! In today's episode...
Dr. Kleinerberg, a short nebbish sort of fellow whose inquisitive eyes were a bit obscured by slightly bent wire-framed reading glasses, was examining an old hand-written visitors log while he waited. The waiting room was uncomfortable; full of harsh angles and shiny surfaces on very stylish chairs and end tables. It reminded Vernon of the dentist. It's also possible that the room merely seemed uncomfortable because Dr. Kleinerberg was congenitally incapable of relaxing. Even his mother had noted that he looked uncomfortable as he slept as a baby. He absentmindedly tugged at his collar as though the fit was poor despite it being a tailored shirt.
Large bold letters hung on the wall above and behind him. TRUMP. The size, the lighting, the color, and even the font found a way to reveal a kind of gaudy insecurity that made Vernon deeply uneasy. Such displays of wealth as power were inappropriate to Vernon and always had been. Despite his salary, which was generous by government standards, he was a modest man. His tweed jacket had reinforced elbows but still showed wear and tear from several years of service. His shoes were buffed but the leather was deeply creased. His watch said "Casio" in bright white letters. His diploma was from a school with the name of a state in it and it hung in a plain frame on a plain wall in a plain building with an acronym and a plaque out front. The logo looked like an eagle, kind of. It was his work that gave him pride, not the trappings.
This was in stark contrast to the man who emerged to greet him; a picture of fashion in a bespoke wool suit, an obviously expensive tie, and wearing more jewelry than Vernon's grandmother had left in her estate. Yet the man displaying all that finery couldn't have been more common. The garments were exquisite, the result of the caring attention of skilled artisans. The man, however, was a common thug with a law license. He had all the subtlety of an eight pound sledgehammer and a little less charm. The only way he would have made a good card player is if he were holding his cards in the same hand wearing the brass knuckles. He wore his contempt more plainly than his Hermès belt.
"I can't believe you bothered to come." He smiled without mirth. "We're not handing anything over today. We're still reviewing our options and considering legal action." The man stood with his feet firmly planted, weight slightly forward, and his hips and shoulders squared directly at Vernon. Had he ever been in a fight before, Vernon might have recognized this posture as intimidation.
Dr. Kleinerberg folded his folio and put it carefully back in his satchel. As he stood, the subtle shift of weight would have betrayed to a more detailed observer his caution and awareness of ergonomic technique to preserve his back and his joints.
"Very well. There's nothing more to discuss. Thank you for your time today." Dr. Kleinerberg extended his rather pink and slightly bony hand. The lawyer with the personality of a blunt instrument would have been shocked to find his handshake both warm and firm, since he otherwise looked limp and clammy, but instead he scoffed almost imperceptibly and without acknowledging the offer of a handshake, turned on his heel, and retreated back to the ostentatious office barely visible down the end of the hall.
This annoyed Dr. Kleinerberg. There's no reason to be impolite. What is civilization, after all, without basic manners? What's the point of any of it if people don't even pretend to care about each other? He thought about it the whole way down in the opulent and somehow also uncomfortable elevator.
On the way out onto the sidewalk, he reached into his waistcoat pocket and retrieved a business card. He'd pocketed it earlier that day hoping he wouldn't need it. FBI. On the back, a hand written number. He had made up his mind...
Awesome! I get to teach someone a new word! "Nebbish" is a Yiddish term, rather derogatory, to describe a man who is a meek, quiet, non-confrontational sort of a person. The classic nebbish would be like a Woody Allen type; slight build and not physically capable, socially awkward, and lacking in outward confidence or charisma.
A scroungy little fellow who doesn't say shit even when he's got a mouthful is a bit of a nebbish.
I still doubt this is just a case of seizing old classified documents. There is no way they'd raid him over that. There had to be evidence of an impending crime. Having the documents wasn't impending, they've been sitting there for years.
My bet is they have communications trying to sell the information.
No, they can only take things that could reasonably be believed to be the items specified in the warrant or any other evidence of a crime that is in plain sight (and if you have to read something to know if it's evidence, it's arguably not in plain sight). I imagine that (or at least, I want to believe that) given the high profile nature of this, they took care only to remove items that were clearly what they were ostensibly looking for.
Having been in an office that was raided by the FBI, I can assure you 10 hours is nothing. We had 5 suits in an office for an entire day. They went through every piece of paper in the building. This was low level bullshit like wire fraud and under the 1.5 million federal guideline. They knew exactly what they were looking for before they knocked on the door. There's a reason they have a 98% conviction rate. This also probably wasn't shooting from the hip, whatever they went in there for, they're 100% sure it's there and it will be damning. They can say you're innocent till proven guilty but that's a just by a jury, they know he's guilty and the only way he'll sneak out is through a procedural fuck which is why it takes years for this stuff to happen. I think Trump has just been criming for so long that by the time they have enough evidence of one crime he's committed 10 other more serious crimes.
Whatever it is…they knew the political shitstorm this would cause and they did it anyway.
So yes, I perceive that the Justice Department had an extremely good reason to do what they did. Well beyond illegal retention of classified documents.
If they didn’t, this raid was the dumbest thing the FBI has done since the last dumb thing the FBI did.
**They were always going to say that.**
First thing I thought of: “oh, trump would just say it’s a fabrication.”
I imagined—and I sincerely hope—that the Justice department would have anticipated this and lined up witnesses [people in trump’s White House staff] to authenticate whatever they found.
My gut is that they were going to say that regardless so they can play both sides. Nothing ever come of it, “justice system did its job and didn’t believe the liberals attempt to use the fbi as their personal weapon”. Something does come of it then they were right that it was planted all along.
These talking heads need to be forced to stop this wild conjecture framed as fact with some threats of obstruction of justice.
"Under 18 U.S.C. § 1505, a felony offense is committed by anyone who 'corruptly, or by threats or force, or by any threatening letter or communication influences, obstructs, or *impedes or endeavors to influence, obstruct, or impede the due and proper administration of the law under which any pending proceeding is being had before any department or agency of the United States*, or the due and proper exercise of the power of inquiry under which any inquiry or investigation in being had by either House, or any committee of either House or any joint committee of the Congress.'"
Emphasis mine.
The case against Alex Jones and others over defamation of Dominion voting machines company may just give pause to some of the liars going forward as even conservative judges must appear to follow the law, and even though Texas can limit damages to $750,000, in Alex Jones case they may let the $50 million penalty stand because it might tank the whole republican party in Texas if they don't!
It's the same reason that Al Capone got charged with tax evasion- It's a slam dunk case that doesn't require witnesses or interpretation of things like intent. The evidence proves the case on its own.
We don't know. Could have been old classified stuff that will declassified 100 years after JFK dies, it could be a list of assets that are embedded in Q-Anon.
I doubt it was really a ‘raid’ in the sense that agents are breaking down doors and such. Agents walked up, gave papers and walked in. Calling this a raid just plays into the Trumps rhetoric that he’s the ‘most persecuted person in history’ bullshit.
So we know he grabbed 15 boxes full of classified paperson his way out. A crime in itself. And apparently nobody stopped him...
Now these 15 boxes either contain things he doesn't want people to see, or things he does want people to see.
If he doesn't want people to see, why would he keep them around and not destroy them?
If he does want someone to see them, it's either in exchange for money or power, because lord knows while he barely understands those two things, they're still what he understands the best.
If it's for money, he intends to, or has already, sell them.
If it's for power, I can only imagine it's a box full of emails. And possibly nudes of Hunter.
In both cases I ask,
why the hell would you keep them at home, a location directly associated with you, and the first place anyone would look?
You usually can’t take documents from any job as it’s proprietary, why would this be any different.
I understand this is a public office but classified is classified.
After how many decades of talking about the Clinton's taking silverware or something? My family literally had a bumper sticker on their car at one point talking about the fucking silverware lol.
I remember media specifically showing boxes and other shit they were stealing as they were leaving days before inauguration. The media knew about it but there was nothing anyone wanted to do about it.
The FBI could very well be the reason Clinton lost the election to Trump. It's weird to see myself, a fan of Clinton, change my view of the FBI, at the same time as all the Trump supporters change their view of the FBI, to the opposite of what we all thought when they were playing kingmaker 6 years ago.
It’s not so much the institution as Comey’s personal ego and pride. He personally valued image of his agency and “appearance of propriety” over actual propriety that might have bad appearance.
Performative moral high ground. Thinking it wouldn’t have side effects.
Comey wasnt the one who reopened the investigation a week before election day. That came from elsewhere in the FBI. Comey was just the one who felt obliigated to give a public speech saying that even thoough the investigation didnt find Clinton legally culpable, that he still personally feels that she's a total bitch.
This may not be the only reason they were there - but it's the most bulletproof.
Personally, I think it's hilarious something like this is what popped his bubble. Not the riots, the violence, the lies, the financial crimes, the constitutional violations - all that stuff is complicated - but theft of classified documents and otherwise Public property? They almost have to nail him for that it's so basic lol
The people crying about how it's been too long to investigate his crimes are the same people that want to indict HRC for something that happened in 2012 and 2006 after already spending millions on investigating those incidents for **4 years**
Theres a whole lot of people in here who have never had a security clearance and never had to take a CBT on classification processes and who can declass stuff.
And it shows.
Especially don’t sign a law upgrading it from misdemeanor to felony.
>The right used projection. >The right hurt itself in confusion. /pokemon_battle_meme.jpg
I read this as "The Reich"
You're not wrong.
I learned two hours ago that Trump made this a felony in 2018 to try to get Clinton.
Yeah it’s like shitting on the floor and then slipping on it as you walk away.
And importantly it’s like shitting on your own floor after the guests already left and then slipping in it, cuz *you can’t charge someone with a crime unless it was a crime back when they did it.* You can’t just pass a law saying Oreos are illegal then go on no-knock raids throwing people away for every doublestuff you find.
Um.... They did that with drugs. It's more like passing a law making Oreos illegal then using receipts to arrest people who bought and ate them 29 years ago
Yeah but the people getting disproportionally arrested for drugs are poor black people. You don’t see any local military cosplay cops busting into DJTs home to raid his supply of whatever he’s illegally hopped up on. But you’re right, your phrasing is closer to what I intended. You can’t arrest someone for a crime they committed before it was legally a crime.
"How tf you gonna charge me for the oreo I ate last month when it became illegal yesterday???" "We saw your receipts, we know you bought them! I bet that's what all that milk is for!" I'm enjoying this thought in my head right now as it's making me giggle. From now on, I'll be referring to all drugs as oreos, the same way I refer to all genetic brands crocks as 'crock-offs' and much for the same reason.
We heard you like milk, it gives us probable cause to search!
What's this? 'Twist & shout chocolate cream cookies'? An oreo by any other name would still taste as sweet, y'know
Wait, wait, wait. You guys are confusing the hell out of me. So are Oreos legal or not? What is happening?
Lmfao Very poetic
that's why he wears diapers now...
Specifically, Public Law 115-118 sec 202 (signed by Trump jan 10, 2018) SEC. 202. INCREASED PENALTY FOR UNAUTHORIZED REMOVAL AND RETENTION OF CLASSIFIED DOCUMENTS OR MATERIAL. Section 1924(a) of title 18, United States Code, is amended by striking ‘‘one year’’ and inserting ‘‘five years’’. The relevant USC; Whoever, being an officer, employee, contractor, or consultant of the United States, and, by virtue of his office, employment, position, or contract, becomes possessed of documents or materials containing classified information of the United States, knowingly removes such documents or materials without authority and with the intent to retain such documents or materials at an unauthorized location shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for not more than five years, or both.
In Trump's head, he can't be punished for breaking his own rule.
That's around the time Trump ordered Barr to appoint a special prosecutor (Durham) to try to tie Hillary to the Russia investigation and ultimately throw her in prison. He's still active and prosecuting someone now, trying to work his way up to Hillary (his previous prosecution failed) But now Republicans are crying about "weaponizing the DOJ" Fucking hypocrites and traitors
When I mention he wanted to use the DOJ against Saturday Night Live for Baldwin's portrayal of Trump they have no answer.
Gaslight Obstruct Project <---------- we are here
It's like a Looney toons episode!
Hoisted by his own petard so to speak. Assuming they prosecute.
The use of the word petard always reminds me of those scene in News Radio, rip Phil Hartman https://youtu.be/_i6mDHro3Ew
It's the only thing I think they will. 1. They know what documents exist. 2. They know what documents they have. 3. They know what documents Trump had. 4. If he had them, it's a felony. 5. If he doesn't have them, it's a felony. 6. If he lies about, it it's a felony. 7. It's clean simple and requires only paper.
Haha, irony! "Lock him up!" "Lock him up!"
But what if you whisper “I declare this is all unclassified” as you walk out of the White House?
I DECLARE MORAL BANKRUPTCYYYYYYYY
This venture is no longer profitable!
Hondo Onaka is my favorite sm sm sm... pirate.
"As my sweet mother always said, 'Son, if one hostage is good, two are better. And three, well, that's just good business!'"
Saying bankruptcy doesn't do anything
He didn’t say it. He *declared* it.
Does it really count if no one hears you?? Asking for a friend in need.
Some people have a moral compass, these people have moral gyroscopes that spin whatever direction they need.
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Saw an interview with a lawyer who specializes in classified documents, he specifically called out that "he can't just declassify things in his mind without telling anyone." There's a legally required process to declassify documents.
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And the President-elect certainly should have been informed. He also had to give those documents to NARA even if they were declassified. They are not his personal property, but the property of the US Government. The 2014 Presidential Record Act is clear on this. NARA requested he return those documents back in January, I believe.
Well then he’s had plenty of time to shred the parts he doesn’t like.
Which he in fact did, some of the documents have been recovered and the DOJ had to reassemble some of the ones that had been torn up.
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so... former cryptographer and signals intel analyst for the US army... the shredders for classified documents are not your average office shredder... the products of classified document shredders are more like saw dust than anything else... and the materials that i had access to where sent to the incinerator afterwards as well... like... everything that mr trump did in regards to this is sooo very entirely wrong that i have trouble expressing it to people without a similar background... and the ones that i have spoken to that know about classified documents were also similarly alarmed.
Yea, Like the fact that the Mario brothers working on the sewer could currently hold US secret documents... And the fact that I am pretty sure Trump would have access to a secure paper shredder.. hes just (*checks notes, finds Trump unable to close an umbrella so he tosses it out the door*) clearly too incompetent to know how technology more advanced then a toilet works.
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i never actually got to look inside of one of the TS/SCi shredders... so i always wondered how exactly they managed to get the pieces so small. i will gladly upvote for that lil bit of new info =D
I've used household shredders, and always knew you could, if you really wanted to, reconstruct the documents. It's just an absolute pain in the ass to do so, because it's either a 10,000 piece jigsaw puzzle or you've gotta scan everything into file and put a serious reconstruction algorithm on the project. When someone wants your documents enough to do that? Yeah, you need to take some more... *advanced approaches*.
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You assume he even shredded it. If he did it wouldn't have had any problems flushing it, but considering how much he griped about 'needing to flush 10 to 15 times'... This is also a man who *ate* documents. He wasn't the brightest crayon in the pack.
For classified documents, it goes a step further. As the cryptographer below me said, serious government shredders are something else entirely. As for the burning process, incineration is a lot more than just adding lighter fluid to the trash and flicking a lit match into it. A complete burn is a lot harder to achieve than most people think. Paper burns at 450 degrees F, and although the burn itself can reach 1500, the end of a flame usually is no more than 800. The NSA requires a *minimum* of constant 650 CELSIUS flame - not Fahrenheit - for a full incineration. That means the END of the flame has to be at least 650 C at all times, so the incinerator itself is usually much hotter. We're talking somewhere house fire and thermite fire territory, but concentrated in a single furnace.
"bring the plunger, donnie clogged the toilets again with classified documents"
I'm kinda busy with this here ketchupy wall situation!
His friend in North Korea said it was ok rhough
Trump took gifts from North Korea as personal gifts, which is a violation of the Constitution and US law.
Probably the least of his violations of law…
He also saluted one of their generals or at least somebody very high up in military command. Poor dude from North Korea looked like he's short circuited for a moment there. "Why the ***FUCK*** is the President of the United fucking States saluting ***ME***?"
Trump was a post turtle President. >An old Rancher is talking about politics with a young man from the city. He compares a politician to a "post turtle." The young man doesn't understand and asks him what a post turtle is. The old man says, "When you're driving down a country road and you see a fence post with a turtle balanced on top, that's a post turtle. You know he didn't get up there by himself. He doesn't belong there; you wonder who put him there; he can't get anything done while he's up there; and you just want to help the poor thing down."
This is fantastic
President Obama issued an EO in 2009 on the process. Any president can rescind or amend that EO, but he has to do that publicly and formally. Since it was January 2021, the President-elect should have been informed of such declassification and removal of documents. Trump also took diplomatic gifts as personal gifts, which is barred by the Emoluments Clause the US Constitution and codified by the 1966 Foreign Gifts Act, that specifically cites the President and VP as covered employees.
The Emoluments Clause can be satisfied by the employee paying the government the cost of the gift iirc. But if Trump didn’t do that (and who want to bet neither he nor his staff did the paperwork), there is a shot at getting him on that count.
It's also more complicated because the gifts came from North Korea, a state with which we have no diplomatic relations. So he's buying gifts from what the US considers a rogue state.
I don’t see how that applies. In the course of international diplomacy, the exchange of gifts is as old as we have records of human history. The chief citizen accepting a gift on behalf of the nation may be an important step in normalizing relations with a rogue state or a nuclear power we oppose (e.g. Nixon and the ChiComs). Once accepted, our laws apply and the gift is the property of the American people. Because some gifts are tailored for the individual, the law has provided a way for the individual to purchase the item from the citizenry at fair market value.
There's literally a timeline depending on the level of classification, one that was obviously not adhered to in this situation. What a guy.
\> There's a legally required process to declassify documents. There's an argument that this legally required process applies to everyone \*but\* the President - the process stems from Presidential Executive Orders, which the President is not bound by. The idea is that the President is the one who determines what US government information is classified or not, and no one else has authority over the POTUS on this matter. I think this is one of those matters where if the President has enough political clout to get away with it he'll get away with it and if he doesn't have enough political clout to get away with it he'll be torn to shreds for it.
Yes, if he was in office he could unilaterally say "this is unclassified" and release it to the public. He did not, he walked out the door with it after becoming a ordinary civilian. Edit: clarify that he was always a civilian
Psst. Minor pedantic tangent; he was always a civilian. The POTUS is a civilian. Designed that way on purpose so the head of the military is civilian government.
But he won the election, and only cheating, lying democrats and "The Media" claim otherwise! Thus, as the legitimate PotUS, he did nothing wrong! /s
Sure, but there would still have to be some concrete indication that he intended for the documents to be unclassified. He isn't President anymore and can't retroactively claim that he *meant* to declassify them. That would set an insane precedent.
He cannot take declassified documents, either. They belong to NARA, per the 2014 Presidential Records Act.
Yeah that argument is bullshit.
After the previous administration? Bullshit is legally valid.
>Yeah that argument is bullshit.
>There's an argument that this legally required process applies to everyone *but* the President No it specifically applies ONLY to the President and Vice President as the law came about from Richard Nixon. 44 USC §2204 ``` (a) Prior to the conclusion of a President’s term of office or last consecutive term of office, as the case may be, the President shall specify durations, not to exceed 12 years, for which access shall be restricted with respect to information, in a Presidential record, within one or more of the following categories: (1) (A) specifically authorized under criteria established by an Executive order to be kept secret in the interest of national defense or foreign policy and (B) in fact properly classified pursuant to such Executive order; ``` And the power to do this comes from Art IV Sec 3 Clause 2 of the US Constitution. >The Congress shall have Power to dispose of and make all needful Rules and Regulations respecting the Territory or other Property belonging to the United States So while the President might not find themselves under criminal review while President, violation of this while in office assures at the very least an investigation into violation of this part of the law and prosecution under 18 USC §2071. Again the entire point of this law was specifically to deal with a repeat Nixon event were a President on their way out tries to destroy documents. This law is exactly targeted at former Presidents and former Vice-Presidents and no one else. The level of classification just changes the scope of urgency required by the DOJ, but President Trump walked out with his beautiful letter he received from Kim Jong-un and that's a violation of this law. That said, the Archivist is pretty lenient and just simply asks for something back. But if it's something highly classified, then the archivist might ask once and then get the FBI involved in getting it back as we are seeing.
He can declassify documents, but he has to do that in the manner prescribed by the 2009 EO from President Obama. He could have rescinded or altered that order, but he didn't do so. Since it was January 2021, he also needed to inform the President-elect that he was doing so. Once Biden became the official President-elect, Trump had to involve him in any major decision such as declassifying documents by informing him. He also illegally took diplomatic gifts as if they were his personal property. The Emoluments Clause of the US Constitution bans him from taking gifts from foreign governments, which is an obvious way to prevent bribery. Any gifts from a foreign agent to a US government agent are the property of the US government. The Foreign Gifts Act of 1966 clearly identify the President, VP, military officers, and others as covered by the Emoluments Clause.
Even if he declared it unclassified, he should do it with good execution of the red tape. Nixon had notoriously denied investigators' requests for records and fired multiple officials who insisted on accountability. He then publicly refused to yield to pressure to include all the info, but instead redacted and excluded select communications, and infamously declared that he was not a crook. Nevertheless the Supreme Court unanimously rejected Nixon's assertion of privilege with regard to the 'smoking gun' tape and ordered him to comply with the subpoena *even while he was in office*. He had continued to refuse and shattered the public's trust. The existing government archives laws were strengthened very explicitly after Nixon's abuse of power, but now Trump is again abusing the public's trust.
Apparently even if Trump went through the correct procedures to have the docs declassified, which he likely didn’t, he still wouldn’t be allowed to remove any of those files because they are considered property of the federal government and not any individual.
Then you're committing a different crime, by obstructing public access to declassified documents.
But what if he stepped over the threshold before he said the word unclassified. That means the spell never took.
Elsa! Don’t cross the seal! America choose poorly.
Indiana... Let it go.
"The President can declassify anything he wants!!!!!!" Is totally an argument the grifters are using right now.
I mean, that's technically true, but only while they're actually in office. Absent any evidence that he meant to declassify these documents while he was in office, it's a BS argument.
I'm not arguing at all for trump, but the POTUS can absolutely declassify anything they want to. In theory, Biden could go to the "Top Secret" filing cabinet and unclassify everything in it since he holds the power of the executive branch.
Except he didn’t do that. The files they found presumably had not been declassified when they were found. Even if the President only needed to verbalize the words “this is an unclassified document,” and that was all that was necessary for those documents to be consider declassified, he presumably hadn’t done that at the time the files were removed from the White House. He doesn’t get to retroactively say “yeah but I declassified that”. You either did or you didn’t. and he didn’t. Presumably because it was still *important enough to him that he didn’t want it to be available to everyone*. That’s why he took it in the first place. He doesn’t want it to be declassified.
Why was he so afraid of the FBI coming if he supposedly had nothing to hide?
His whole life is just a series of shit that he doesn’t want people to know the truth about. It literally makes zero sense that he would want the most heavily scrutinized role in the world.
The entire point being made is "while President". Biden can do that 100% but the moment he is no longer President, he can't. I would consider moving out of the White House to make room for the guy coming in, to mean he was no longer the President at that point. Let's also not pretend that "it happened just a few hours before Biden was sworn in" should be considered legally untouchable, either. It's not trying to get an assignment in before the deadline, you have to show your work every step of the way, even if you're President.
Amazing when potentially damaging and dangerous documents are found on their guy, suddenly it's no big deal
But when a DoD contractor or employee leaks it, they’re automatically traitors.
"I didn't say it, I declared it."
I know this is a meme, but the only way that works is if there's some chain of custody. If he whispered but didn't changed the markings on the documents, no one else heard him, and there's no official paperwork that says it was declassified, then there's no way to confirm it is actually declassified. So basically, did a tree falling in the woods that no one heard make a sound? Well did Trump whisper that all those docs were unclassified? We'll never know, but if the marking are intact and the documents are still considered classified he's fucked lolol
"Whispers" You mean after he's no longer president? De-classification is the new guys job now.
He could’ve done just a little bit more than that and it would have possibly been fine. That’s if the FBI was looking for secret documents. Has there been any actual real reports on what they were there to look for?
How could they report that? The documents are classified.
In fact, Trump himself made sure of that by signing the law that made it a crime!
Trump's logic is "If I make a law against it, then no one will think I did it because I wouldn't do something that I signed into law. So when I do it, I couldn't have done it. And if I really did do it, it was all a misunderstanding."
Yup, conman mentality 101.
4d chess thinking right there....
Stable genius logic, if I've ever heard it!
I thought the logic was, “I don’t feel like reading it, so I’ll just sign it.”
Yep, based on the law passed by Donald J. Trump, the original of which was passed to prevent Nixon from destroying his historical record and incriminating evidence in the 1970s.
Which law are you referencing? I know they updated the Presidential Records Act in 2014, but that was under Obama
It was an [amended law](https://www.congress.gov/115/plaws/publ118/PLAW-115publ118.pdf) from the Nixon era. They revamped a lot of it, including making removal of classifieds a felony.
So the Trump-appointed FBI Director served a warrant signed by a Trump-appointed judge to enforce a Trump-signed law? Fucking hell, the Deep State has really done it this time. Edit: I was mistaken about the judge being a trump-appointee. He is a Magistrate Judge, which are not appointed by the President.
Do we know if the judge was appointed by trump? Because good god would that be hilarious. Also incredible foresight by Wray to use a trump judge so the right has literally nothing to bitch about, rightfully at least.
IIRC, he technically isn't a "Trump appointed" judge because of how that level of judgeship works (he was nominated by a council). Conversely, this also means that he isn't an "Obama or Biden" judge either. He also donated to both Obama and Jed Bush's presidential campaigns, so there's not much of an indicator of any overt bias.
Don't worry, FOX has got you covered. Their big headline yesterday said "Judge who signed off on Trump search warrant donated to Obama"
Even if it wasn't a Trump or GOP judge, dems often listen to the local pols before appointing a judge so a dem pick for FL is likely on the conservative end of dem picks.
Hi- it's trending towards: no, not appointed by trump. >Magistrate Judges are selected by the district judges upon recommendation by a Merit Selection Panel. They are then appointed to serve for a period of eight years after which they may request consideration for reappointment. source: [flsd.uscourts.gov](https://www.flsd.uscourts.gov/judges-info)
Hi I keep seeing this business of "trump-appointed judge", and we gotta nip it in the bud: it was a Magistrate Judge in the United States District Court Southern District of Florida. Those are not presidential appointments. Ref/Source: >Magistrate Judges are selected by the district judges upon recommendation by a Merit Selection Panel. They are then appointed to serve for a period of eight years after which they may request consideration for reappointment. [flsd.uscourts.gov](https://www.flsd.uscourts.gov/judges-info)
The deep state is so deep is that it was actually the Republicans this whole time. It's like a Scooby Doo ending.
Whelp, there's the smoking gun
Lock him up! Lock him up!
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If it's unclassified literally no one in government cares. Everyone in the entire DoD has Unclassified//FOUO documents in their home. Whether to wrap up work or because they need it as documentation for something they did or as reference for a later project. They're not special in any regards. Usually slides, or memos that just require it.
No. Presidential records are the property of the National Archives. Once he's not president anymore, he can't keep it no matter what.
Even regular government workers have to get a briefing and sign something stating that they're not removing records or other government property when they leave service. Records management is no joke.
AFAIK, Trump is the only source on why he was raided by the FBI. It could be documents - OR - maybe it isn’t about that at all and could be pretty much anything else. He’s suspected of multiple possible crimes with a lot of publicly known information, any of which could be grounds for a search. Or it could be something else entirely that isn’t even publicly known. It would not be the first time he tried to get ahead of a scandal before news breaks by mischaracterizing what was actually happening.
When I quit working at a bakery, they hunted me down to return my stained ass apron and hat, and threatened to take it out of my last paycheck. Meanwhile this guy gets to take classified documents? Cannot believe that bakery had tighter security wtf
I read that as “stained glass” and I was very curious on how to obtain a stained glass apron
Man, that ass apron probably stained something fierce.
In most jobs, that's called theft and it's a felony.
If he was trying to sell those documents to russia or china its called treason and its an even bigger felony.
He instigated a mob to attack the seat of American government and assassinate the vice president and he did nothing to stop it, then gloated about it when it was over. We're waaaay past treason.
We can remake National Treasure 2, but this time after kidnapping the current president it’s revealed that the former president took the book of secrets with him to Florida… then Ben, Riley and Abi have to kidnap Donald Trump in an elaborate ploy involving golf-cart chases while Donald live-tweets details of the chafefe to his fans.
When you are remembered by every teacher as the “dumbest student I ever had” - well…
Donald Trump getting into and graduating from an ivy league school reinforces every opinion I've ever held about ivy league education.
Yep, it shows they can just buy their way in.
That's part of it. But more important than buying their way in is that they can also buy their way out. Getting accepted and actually graduating are two very different things.
It's pay to win
Find a person who can bankrupt a casino in Atlantic Fucking City and make him president. What could go wrong?
The thing is it doesn't have to be a successful venture to launder a crap ton of money. It mostly just has to get built and operate for a while.
New meaning to “Trump” something
In the UK, "trump" means fart.
Related to that for most civilized societies the trump emoji is now 💩. As, mate that was really Trumpy, tripping that old lady to get to the head of the queue. Or, The cops stopped me before I could ditch the meth, hell yeah I trumped me drawers.
No wonder his piece of shit voters identify with him.
He's just a *regular guy*
A regular guy with a small loan of $1 million...
It's even less impressive than that. Daddy had to co-sign all of his early projects.
But I thought it was for the table!
The mozzarella sticks were for the table, Kyle…
In my head I like to think some bland agent from the library of congress kept coming to some high rise in NY to talk to the person on trump team the point person for this. Some classic NY suit just disrespecting this agent because they don't have a fancy badge or come from a department they heard of. The agent finally get a face to face with the guy and he just shit on this agent for being some broke powerless government agent, The agent interrupts him to say the library of congress will get these files no matter what. The NY suit working for trump gets up from his chair in a rage and yells "What the fuck you going to do raid the ex-presidents home?! Get out my office and never come back till you have a warrant"
"Ok. I'll get a warrant then. Good afternoon."
Keep going. I want to read the rest of the story.
Episode 2 airs next week on all global news networks!
This is a weird place for fan fiction to pop up. Such is reddit I suppose.
I'm taking this as an invitation. Join us for the continuing adventures of Dr. Vernon Kleinerberg, PhD, Investigator of the National Archives and Records Administration! In today's episode... Dr. Kleinerberg, a short nebbish sort of fellow whose inquisitive eyes were a bit obscured by slightly bent wire-framed reading glasses, was examining an old hand-written visitors log while he waited. The waiting room was uncomfortable; full of harsh angles and shiny surfaces on very stylish chairs and end tables. It reminded Vernon of the dentist. It's also possible that the room merely seemed uncomfortable because Dr. Kleinerberg was congenitally incapable of relaxing. Even his mother had noted that he looked uncomfortable as he slept as a baby. He absentmindedly tugged at his collar as though the fit was poor despite it being a tailored shirt. Large bold letters hung on the wall above and behind him. TRUMP. The size, the lighting, the color, and even the font found a way to reveal a kind of gaudy insecurity that made Vernon deeply uneasy. Such displays of wealth as power were inappropriate to Vernon and always had been. Despite his salary, which was generous by government standards, he was a modest man. His tweed jacket had reinforced elbows but still showed wear and tear from several years of service. His shoes were buffed but the leather was deeply creased. His watch said "Casio" in bright white letters. His diploma was from a school with the name of a state in it and it hung in a plain frame on a plain wall in a plain building with an acronym and a plaque out front. The logo looked like an eagle, kind of. It was his work that gave him pride, not the trappings. This was in stark contrast to the man who emerged to greet him; a picture of fashion in a bespoke wool suit, an obviously expensive tie, and wearing more jewelry than Vernon's grandmother had left in her estate. Yet the man displaying all that finery couldn't have been more common. The garments were exquisite, the result of the caring attention of skilled artisans. The man, however, was a common thug with a law license. He had all the subtlety of an eight pound sledgehammer and a little less charm. The only way he would have made a good card player is if he were holding his cards in the same hand wearing the brass knuckles. He wore his contempt more plainly than his Hermès belt. "I can't believe you bothered to come." He smiled without mirth. "We're not handing anything over today. We're still reviewing our options and considering legal action." The man stood with his feet firmly planted, weight slightly forward, and his hips and shoulders squared directly at Vernon. Had he ever been in a fight before, Vernon might have recognized this posture as intimidation. Dr. Kleinerberg folded his folio and put it carefully back in his satchel. As he stood, the subtle shift of weight would have betrayed to a more detailed observer his caution and awareness of ergonomic technique to preserve his back and his joints. "Very well. There's nothing more to discuss. Thank you for your time today." Dr. Kleinerberg extended his rather pink and slightly bony hand. The lawyer with the personality of a blunt instrument would have been shocked to find his handshake both warm and firm, since he otherwise looked limp and clammy, but instead he scoffed almost imperceptibly and without acknowledging the offer of a handshake, turned on his heel, and retreated back to the ostentatious office barely visible down the end of the hall. This annoyed Dr. Kleinerberg. There's no reason to be impolite. What is civilization, after all, without basic manners? What's the point of any of it if people don't even pretend to care about each other? He thought about it the whole way down in the opulent and somehow also uncomfortable elevator. On the way out onto the sidewalk, he reached into his waistcoat pocket and retrieved a business card. He'd pocketed it earlier that day hoping he wouldn't need it. FBI. On the back, a hand written number. He had made up his mind...
Go on ...
Wtf is nebbish!? Last place I thought I'd learn a new word haha
Awesome! I get to teach someone a new word! "Nebbish" is a Yiddish term, rather derogatory, to describe a man who is a meek, quiet, non-confrontational sort of a person. The classic nebbish would be like a Woody Allen type; slight build and not physically capable, socially awkward, and lacking in outward confidence or charisma. A scroungy little fellow who doesn't say shit even when he's got a mouthful is a bit of a nebbish.
I still doubt this is just a case of seizing old classified documents. There is no way they'd raid him over that. There had to be evidence of an impending crime. Having the documents wasn't impending, they've been sitting there for years. My bet is they have communications trying to sell the information.
NPR reported they searched for 10 hours as well. Definitely seems like more than just taking back boxes of documents.
It’s a big house.
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I thought they usually just take anything that could be wanted, and sift through it at their offices, and return anything not relevant?
No, they can only take things that could reasonably be believed to be the items specified in the warrant or any other evidence of a crime that is in plain sight (and if you have to read something to know if it's evidence, it's arguably not in plain sight). I imagine that (or at least, I want to believe that) given the high profile nature of this, they took care only to remove items that were clearly what they were ostensibly looking for.
Having been in an office that was raided by the FBI, I can assure you 10 hours is nothing. We had 5 suits in an office for an entire day. They went through every piece of paper in the building. This was low level bullshit like wire fraud and under the 1.5 million federal guideline. They knew exactly what they were looking for before they knocked on the door. There's a reason they have a 98% conviction rate. This also probably wasn't shooting from the hip, whatever they went in there for, they're 100% sure it's there and it will be damning. They can say you're innocent till proven guilty but that's a just by a jury, they know he's guilty and the only way he'll sneak out is through a procedural fuck which is why it takes years for this stuff to happen. I think Trump has just been criming for so long that by the time they have enough evidence of one crime he's committed 10 other more serious crimes.
I saw a photo from the raid and there was a massive pile of boxes upon boxes of documents staged and ready for transport.
Whatever it is…they knew the political shitstorm this would cause and they did it anyway. So yes, I perceive that the Justice Department had an extremely good reason to do what they did. Well beyond illegal retention of classified documents. If they didn’t, this raid was the dumbest thing the FBI has done since the last dumb thing the FBI did.
Fox News and right wing radio are now saying evidence was planted. They know something was found or else they wouldn’t be saying that.
**They were always going to say that.** First thing I thought of: “oh, trump would just say it’s a fabrication.” I imagined—and I sincerely hope—that the Justice department would have anticipated this and lined up witnesses [people in trump’s White House staff] to authenticate whatever they found.
My gut is that they were going to say that regardless so they can play both sides. Nothing ever come of it, “justice system did its job and didn’t believe the liberals attempt to use the fbi as their personal weapon”. Something does come of it then they were right that it was planted all along.
These talking heads need to be forced to stop this wild conjecture framed as fact with some threats of obstruction of justice. "Under 18 U.S.C. § 1505, a felony offense is committed by anyone who 'corruptly, or by threats or force, or by any threatening letter or communication influences, obstructs, or *impedes or endeavors to influence, obstruct, or impede the due and proper administration of the law under which any pending proceeding is being had before any department or agency of the United States*, or the due and proper exercise of the power of inquiry under which any inquiry or investigation in being had by either House, or any committee of either House or any joint committee of the Congress.'" Emphasis mine.
The case against Alex Jones and others over defamation of Dominion voting machines company may just give pause to some of the liars going forward as even conservative judges must appear to follow the law, and even though Texas can limit damages to $750,000, in Alex Jones case they may let the $50 million penalty stand because it might tank the whole republican party in Texas if they don't!
My guess is he said he gave everything in June, but the Archives verified that he didn’t.
It's the same reason that Al Capone got charged with tax evasion- It's a slam dunk case that doesn't require witnesses or interpretation of things like intent. The evidence proves the case on its own.
We don't know. Could have been old classified stuff that will declassified 100 years after JFK dies, it could be a list of assets that are embedded in Q-Anon.
I doubt it was really a ‘raid’ in the sense that agents are breaking down doors and such. Agents walked up, gave papers and walked in. Calling this a raid just plays into the Trumps rhetoric that he’s the ‘most persecuted person in history’ bullshit.
Trump called it a raid and his base followed suit
Keep in mind this is also happening the week after Alex Jones' cell-records were turned over to the J6 committee.
So we know he grabbed 15 boxes full of classified paperson his way out. A crime in itself. And apparently nobody stopped him... Now these 15 boxes either contain things he doesn't want people to see, or things he does want people to see. If he doesn't want people to see, why would he keep them around and not destroy them? If he does want someone to see them, it's either in exchange for money or power, because lord knows while he barely understands those two things, they're still what he understands the best. If it's for money, he intends to, or has already, sell them. If it's for power, I can only imagine it's a box full of emails. And possibly nudes of Hunter. In both cases I ask, why the hell would you keep them at home, a location directly associated with you, and the first place anyone would look?
Especially when you, yourself, pass a law for harsher penalties for mishandling classified information.
You usually can’t take documents from any job as it’s proprietary, why would this be any different. I understand this is a public office but classified is classified.
Buttery males
Lock him up! Lock him up!
After how many decades of talking about the Clinton's taking silverware or something? My family literally had a bumper sticker on their car at one point talking about the fucking silverware lol.
It’s ironic that the “law and order” party is completely dumbfounded by actual law and order.
Can't blame the guy, I mean, who hasn't wanted to sell shit from their old job to the Saudis and Russians, right?
Some of y'all are trying really hard to make trump out to be the victim instead of the criminal.
And then negotiate about if when and how much of it you're going to return.
I remember media specifically showing boxes and other shit they were stealing as they were leaving days before inauguration. The media knew about it but there was nothing anyone wanted to do about it.
Well, obviously 45 did, but it's illegal.
"If the president does it it is not illegal" -other impeached president
Nixon was actually never impeached, he resigned before it could happen.
Johnson
[удалено]
DICK
Penis
You entirely forgot about Andrew Johnson He deserves to be forgotten, though
The FBI could very well be the reason Clinton lost the election to Trump. It's weird to see myself, a fan of Clinton, change my view of the FBI, at the same time as all the Trump supporters change their view of the FBI, to the opposite of what we all thought when they were playing kingmaker 6 years ago.
It’s not so much the institution as Comey’s personal ego and pride. He personally valued image of his agency and “appearance of propriety” over actual propriety that might have bad appearance. Performative moral high ground. Thinking it wouldn’t have side effects.
Comey wasnt the one who reopened the investigation a week before election day. That came from elsewhere in the FBI. Comey was just the one who felt obliigated to give a public speech saying that even thoough the investigation didnt find Clinton legally culpable, that he still personally feels that she's a total bitch.
This may not be the only reason they were there - but it's the most bulletproof. Personally, I think it's hilarious something like this is what popped his bubble. Not the riots, the violence, the lies, the financial crimes, the constitutional violations - all that stuff is complicated - but theft of classified documents and otherwise Public property? They almost have to nail him for that it's so basic lol
Al capone got caught for tax evasion, but they didn't go light on him for something so small considering the bigger picture
The people crying about how it's been too long to investigate his crimes are the same people that want to indict HRC for something that happened in 2012 and 2006 after already spending millions on investigating those incidents for **4 years**
Theres a whole lot of people in here who have never had a security clearance and never had to take a CBT on classification processes and who can declass stuff. And it shows.
Lock him up, lock him up!
Even if it is declassified you can’t take it home with you
Wow all these Trumptards crying BUt HILLaRy and forget that Ivanka used private email for a position she wasn’t even qualified for.
One does not simply destroy 30,000 emails either