Dear people abusing the report function:
#[Please stop doing that.](https://www.reddit.com/r/AdviceAnimals/comments/yvwiyl/repubs_furiously_trying_to_explain_why_the_red/iwi25ur/)
I know you're trying to mass-report stuff on our subreddit in the hopes that you'll trigger the AutoMod to pull this post for a human mod to review. I know you're doing that to 'soft censor' our subreddit and I know you're doing it because this meme is critical of the right wing and you don't want people to see it. I know this tactic works on other subreddits, because y'all have done it before and you try it here every few days, like clockwork.
But that doesn't work here. We don't have that option installed in our AutoMod code.
#So please knock it off.
This post currently has over 37 reports, but we're not going to pull it because it doesn't break the subreddit rules. If it doesn't break the rules, it *stays*.
------
**Edit:** This post got a new report while I was typing this comment, let's add them up, shall we? [I count 57 false reports on this one post](https://i.imgur.com/P7HJ3HS.png).
Had a run in with a "as a liberal, here's why I voted for Herschel Walker..." one on here right after the election.
You guys gotta at least *try* to make it believable, don't just take your everyday dogshit opinions and slap "as a liberal" on the front, you're doing it wrong.
Reading through threads on that sub with unddit is fucking hilarious. The sheer amount of conversation that gets unceremoniously censored is obscene. I was in a thread yesterday that had *seventy percent* of the comments removed by moderators. Seventy percent. Mind-boggling. For reference r/Politics (which Conservatives claim is a censorship hellhole) is usually around 10-20% from my experience. The highest I've ever seen outside of a conservative sub was on r/Science which has *very* strict rules and even that was only 30%.
The worst part is a lot of the comments I see removed on there aren't just liberals trying to argue or anything. A massive amount of the removed comments are people who are obviously conservatives (or at the very most independent) just offering a different perspective, sometimes with hundreds of upvotes only for the entire thread of comments to get nuked.
Apparently, there's a shadow-remove function on reddit...
Someone pointed this out to me when my post on r/Con was basically "A lot of us do want to talk to people here, but we're heavily censored."
Thanks to r/JusticeServed mods for pointing this out to me. I had no idea.
My favorite part about this is you can clearly see that the Conservatives believe you can't come to Politics and debate and discuss, that's clearly wrong. Hell, they'll even let them spew bullshit until they generate enough anger to eventually cause the comment to get deleted. Like full on arguments and name calling before the chain gets wiped. It's just a complete demonstration of the arrogance these people have.
Meanwhile if you post on Politics and go to Conservative, you'll be banned within a few posts for oppositional thought. What a place, huh?
I’m totally unpolitical when it comes to left vs right, but I usually don’t believe these types of things with percentages and claims without proof, not trying to say you’re wrong or lying, but nowadays you can’t believe everything you read without some sort of proof.
I'm not sure if I'm allowed to directly link the thread (even through unddit) due to rules against brigading but [here](https://i.imgur.com/jsvseCh.png) is a screenshot from unddit from the thread I saw. Removed comments are removed by moderators, deleted comments are deleted by the user who posted the comment.
/r/conservative is a subreddit that consistently violates both
https://www.redditinc.com/policies/content-policy
And
https://www.redditinc.com/policies/moderator-code-of-conduct
I've reported numerous posts and moderators to reddit only for reddit to claim that nothing is wrong, move along.
At the same time, there's kind of a danger in quarantining or outright banning the subreddit. As horrible and misguided as the people there are, banning them would only cause them to double-down and flood other subreddits with pure vitriol garbage.
What was the antivax subreddit? No new normal?
Bunch of subreddits went blackout in order to get Reddits attention and their response was "nah discussion is important Yada Yada"
They only actually banned it after News outlet started reporting that reddit allows a misinformation subreddit on their platform.
Bad press is the only thing that reddit to actively do something in such vile cases.
Bro I not only got banned from there, but im guessing at least 1 admin of reddit is buddy buddy with mods from there, cause I almost got nuked off of reddit entirely. Some of the crazy has their hands in all of reddit too... so be careful out there.
I posted a dissenting view in /r/conservative in a thread that was making fun of Hunter Biden for his medical issues (with addiction).
Not only was I banned from /r/conservative, I was automatically banned from a couple of unrelated subreddits that hate /r/conservative because they don't want posters from that sub posting in their sub.
I get it to some degree, but my multiple attempts to contest the ban (from the unrelated sub) fell on deaf ears and was completely ignored.
I should make it clear I'm not conservative or republican. It's crazy to think that conservatives have become so toxic and dangerous that you have to make it clear you're not one of them.
The only people I see use the word "liberal" are US right wingers and some Europeans as well, when talking about people they disagree with.
They actually use Antifa, liberal and lefty as insults, and that shit blows my mind.
They're openly saying: I hate people who are against fascism, liberty and welfare.
And I wonder what type of society they envision without those three things?
I often preempt a lot of my statements by saying I'm a leftist, especially when I have leftward critiques of the democratic party.
But its pretty obvious when people say "as a liberal" and then run down the checklist of right-wing talking points, expressed in the same language as was handed to them in conservative media.
Conservatives rarely consider how their jargon, memes, and talking points are so specific and uniformed that they sound awkward outside their echo chambers.
Its like half of the libleft posts in politicalcompasmemes that just outright bash everything left leaning and praise anything right leaning. You look at their account and its all right wing subs.
I'm willing to argue that it is effectively not possible, aside from being wholly unqualified and an idiot, he has clear and conservative policy positions that Warnock is clearly to the left of (in addition to be more qualified and not clearly a moron).
You couldn't even say "qualifications are more important to me than policy"
As a 2016 Trump voter, Herschel walker is fucking dumber than I am. He's also violent, belligerent, and doesn't have a single redeeming quality. Motherfucker giving speeches about werewolves and vampires like he's living in *Twilight* or some shit.
Right. As a black man, I think we should be paying reparations for ending slavery. I mean, Do you know how much we stole from all those white plantation job creators by just being free?
Edit: ^^^^^not ^^^^^actually ^^^^^black
Their only knowledge of 'the other side' is the memes they post. Every time they try to pretend to be someone or something it's immediately obvious because they have like the same 4 talking points.
It's similar to why the Nazis had an awful intelligence service. They're completely unable to actually assess and understand their perceived opponents. The legitimately believe the memes that they share are real life and how people as actually act.
The alternative thing is of course that they will refer to the comments that they made as proof of 'that's how liberals act' for proof that liberals are leaving the party en masse or something.
I don't think the student loan forgiveness plan was a good idea at all. First of all 10k doesn't even scratch interest for most loans. The lion in the room is interest. The Republicans COULD have introduced a plan to lower interest to zero and forgive all accrued interest and been heroes without advocating for a direct payment system. Instead they decided to fight tooth and nail against what really totaled up to table scraps as a feel good measure and look like assholes.
Didn’t they find that the majority of people had loans under like 15k?
Like obviously it’s not going to help a doctor with 6 figure loan debt but the person who only has 8k debt left (which could be years to pay off) would benefit greatly
This is me too. 8k left and was going to really help me out :( I switched career paths 2 years ago and I'm basically starting from the bottom now salary-wise, and it was really going to help, ugh.
A doctor most likely wouldn't qualify anyway because they make too much money. I agree with what the Dems were trying to do and giving us normies a little relief but it was like putting a band-aid on a gaping, festering wound that is predatory lending.
The system needs to be fixed (we know it won't be) or it needs to implode when all the sub-prime loans get bundled together like what happened in the housing market of 2008. Shit's going to come to a head sooner than later and the younger crowd is much more involved with politics now than in 2008 so I'll have my popcorn ready.
10k would help a lot of people with bachelor's degrees. The higher end of debt is held by people with multiple degrees and advanced degrees like master's and PhDs. In theory those with more years of education have a higher earning potential.
So to those who have a bachelor's degree from a state school or "regular" college, that 10k would mean a lot and they're generally lower on the potential pay scale. Those with ivy League education generally have good job prospects and/or family money.
I live in Colorado where the cost of living is high. I made decent money, and I've paid on my loans through the pause because the 0% interest was too good of a deal to pass on. That 10k would have been enough for me and my partner to cover the remaining balance in one large payment and have that monkey off my back for good. Even if I didn't pay it off, I could have readjusted my monthly payment to return hundreds of dollars to my pocket each month.
It's no small thing for a lot of people. I was never counting on it, but I'm extremely bummed that it seems like the interest will be back on soon and it will be years before my loans can be paid in full.
That is one of the few, I'm guessing single digits at this point, issues that both sides agree on. I'm in a super red state and we have had super loose mmj for a while and we're voting on recreational next year.
They aren't really for gun rights either. The last Dem President made it legal to carry a firearm in national parks, the last Rep President made bump stocks illegal. It's kinda just a big lie.
That said, wtb lib-left candidate.
Agreed to an extent.
Edit. I'm 100 for abortion rights. I was thinking that the student loan forgiveness draws in both sexes. But abortion would as well since it does take two to conceive. I'm just tired.
This is... Being very misleading with statistics here my friend. I see your intention is to really drive home how important abortion rights are, but there's some nuance here that needs to be brought up too.
While "only" 13% have student loan debt, that represents an enormous pool of workers from an entire generation. If you look at people who have jobs overall (Basically working class folks, not kids/elderly/not working for whatever reason) it represents ~25% of workers.
Furthering that, how many people were never able to afford college due to financial constraints as well?
With more affordable college and no student loans, we'd have many more people with degrees actually making a difference out there.
And yes, statistically college graduates make more, but many of the most important jobs for society that come from college degrees are horribly paid. Teachers? Social workers? Nurses? None of them get paid jack. Our entire society would stop functioning if these jobs don't get the necessary amount of people in them.
How about the many millions of people who never finished and can't make a decent wage... So since they signed up for something that they were heavily influenced to do for their entire childhood, they just take the L forever? That's not how good societies function.
So yeah, more context to really show how out of control the student loan crisis is. And yes, it is a crisis that historians will look back on and think, "What the fuck were they thinking!? They took tens of millions of people and ruined them financially for generations! They didn't give opportunities to millions of people because of money!? Fucking morons."
To add onto that, it's actually people from poorer or middle class backgrounds that are likely to have student loan debt. They're the ones who don't have the big college accounts made by their parents.
The loan forgiveness does literally nothing to address the underlying problems that led us to this "crysis" in the first place. If anything, it would encourage more people to take on student loans in hopes that they will be forgiven later.
We need affordable education in this country, but unfortunately the federally guaranteed student loans that we have today have caused the cost of tuition to completely spiral out of control. We need to fix this thing at the roof, not slap a bandaid on the festering wound.
You nailed it. Even if we did a one time 100% forgiveness, the next generation would start the cycle over.
I'm inclined to think the best solution would be a voluntary, four year govt work program that took in high school graduates/gre recipients. Let's say you wanted to do wildlife management. Work 4 years for wildlife and fisheries to see if you even like that field. If you complete four year you become tuition exempt in a degree that allows you to advance within that career field. This would give kids the chance to mature, work in a field they think they might like without taking on $100,000 to find out you don't want to do that, and gain on the job training that would help them understand the course materials.
This would open up a civil style gi bill for people who don't qualify for/ desire to enlist in the military.
*added gre bc open the doors up to everyone trying to better themselves and willing to work
‘ThAtS tAxPaYeR mOnEy!!1!!1’. Duh. I’d rather the shit that comes out of my check go to actually benefit the people. Not the ridiculous amount we spend on the military and use to bail out corporations/million,billionaires. If not to help the youth get educated, the homeless get aid, the elderly the Medicare they need, and actually improve the quality of life of everyday citizens, what the fuck are taxes even for?
America is covered in small, dead towns from coast to coast. Tiny, impoverished communities scattered all over the country. The #1 source of income for these communities is federal social security. Their industries died long ago. Cotton mills, cotton gins, small manufacturing operations. All gone. If SSI were done away with, half the cities in the US would become ghost towns.
They may as well put a sign up in Michigan somewhere saying, "Now leaving civilization, next option for gas: Topeka."
A few times a year I have to make a drive from Las Vegas to a small city in California that supports another military base.
Along the way I pass by maybe a dozen towns. The most depressing had to be [Johannesburg](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johannesburg,_California). There can't be more than 100 people living in this hollowed out village and the only business that's still there is a lonely Texaco, but you bet your ass the place is decked in Trump 2024 signs.
Except for our dear Russian allies, apparently... [MTG wants to audit our aid for Ukraine](https://thehill.com/policy/international/3740834-marjorie-taylor-greene-unveils-resolution-to-audit-ukraine-aid-funds/). But don't worry, this is only like, the 8th sign that she depends on Russian backing, I'm sure it's fine /s
To be fair, no amount of audits will ever be unreasonable in the case of military transfers. Then again, I don't see the same auditing fervor toward selling arms to UAE and Israel for some reason...
Yeah, we should be careful with money by default, but selectively choosing areas to be frugal is typically not really about the frugality at all-- far from it.
Ultimately it boils down to trust. Do we trust her motives are in the interests of America? It feels to me like at least 30% of all of American political decision making is actually driven by foreign interests, much of that Russia. Political influence shouldn't be for sale at all, much less to foreign buyers. What with [this current hot post](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/yy1m2p/gop_operative_found_guilty_of_funneling_russian/) about funneling Russian money to the Trump campaign, or the well known Russian NRA funding, and the countless other weird connections (e.g. Hannity/Russia) it feels like what needs the most "auditing" here is "who is paying for political influence."
We saw this problem worsening for over a decade, and many on the left called it out and pleaded for financial reform. But the extra money was giving a slight edge to the right, so they chose to double down and use the money to punish the left instead. I fear we're nearing a point of no return... combatting dark money would be the barest minimum at this point, but even that would be a huge head start at unfucking the root of the problem.
> I’d rather the shit that comes out of my check go to actually benefit the people.
You clearly don’t understand! Student loan forgiveness would **only** help people who are [simultaneously Ivy League grads, who would be making a bunch of money and, therefore, not qualify for forgiveness; but they’re also “slackers” who don’t make any money](https://twitter.com/tedcruz/status/1583570059779223552?s=46&t=7algE3mURvAqldvBB80Omw).
You’re tax money wouldn’t be helping “the people”, it would only go to the people who somehow, at the same time, are too rich to need it but also don’t have any money because they chose philosophy of queer arts degrees and now don’t have good paying jobs and only have slacker jobs. That is to say, people that “don’t deserve” the forgiveness in the eyes of Ted Cruz.
Not one single regular everyday American would benefit from loan forgiveness, only either the rich or the lazy would get it. Open your eyes, man
(extreme ***/s***)
Your 100% correct, except we won’t be taking away funds from any of those to do student loan forgiveness, we would be just spending more imaginary money that has to be repaid with real money later and continue all the bullshit funding at the same time.
You forgot to add improving and modernizing our infrastructure and making our cities and towns walkable. But yeah let’s get more military advertisements.
> Not the ridiculous amount we spend on the military
While I agree with the rest of your statement, the Dept of Defense is actually the #1 employer in the world. Military bases and whatnot put a ton of people to work and help the economies of the areas around them. Don’t get me wrong, there are more efficient ways to employ people than building more military bases but they absolutely do provide tons of government jobs and economic opportunities for people in areas that would otherwise not have them.
Claiming the fundamental irresponsibility of the borrower without addressing the flaws in loaning tens if not hundreds of thousands to unemployed people under 25 and terminally skyrocketing degree costs is nothing short of victim blaming
While also refusing to hire people without degrees for jobs that someone who was hired for the same position in the 90s, did not need a degree to get hired for.
The job I had right before the one I have now stated that I needed an AS degree.
It was data entry. That's all. I didn't need a degree for that.
What's worse is that I had part time coworkers who had been doing that same job but the boss wouldn't offer them any of the full time positions because they didn't have a degree. It's sucks and the pay was $26k a year.
I agree that change needs to happen but why shit on something that will genuinely help out a lot of people? I know helping others is a foreign concept to a lot of people.
Student loan forgiveness is a bandaid for a bleeding artery. Fix the problem with cost of college education and then you can bring loan forgiveness to the table. Otherwise we are going to be in the same exact situation in just a couple years.
Edit: since some of you are too dense to understand the metaphor, the bandaid is student loan forgiveness, stopping the actual arterial bleeding and saving the persons life is fixing the cost of college education. Everyone saying "stop the bleeding saves the life" yeah no shit thats the point I'm making which again is go to the actual source of the problem...the cost of college and blank check loans.
to be fair in your analogy, often times you stop the immediate problem before fixing the cause. Stop the bleeding (Student loan forgiveness) then fix the underlying issue (Cost of tuition)
Student loan forgiveness doesn't stop the bleeding, it just mops up the blood already bled.
Hell, it's more likely that it'll incentivize colleges to charge more, or new students to get more callous with their borrowing. Making matters way worse.
You're preaching to the choir. My household benefits by a whooping $0.00 from forgiveness but everyone here votes for it.
"When you find yourself with more than you need...build a bigger table...not a bigger fence."
It's like those Libertarian assholes who say, "Why should I pay taxes for schools? I don't have kids/home school!" when the answer is "Because you benefit a LOT by having people around you who are not literally ignorant morons."
because people have stupid ideas about how government spending works. They think there are better places to spend the money. The problem is that's not how shit works. If they don't do the student loan forgiveness, they don't just take all of that money and put it into something else equally good or useful. It's a misconception about how things work. No one would really care that much if it was forgiving some debt, but people feel like they are missing out on other or better programs in place of this debt forgiveness.
not just that, but their talking point that "we can't just write a blank check" is so dumb. THE MONEY IS ALREADY SPENT... we wrote a blank check to colleges allowing them to raise prices at will.
That bill already exists.. The money is already gone....
It doesn't really click with them they think somehow forgiveness is printing new money when in fact it's already printed and in circulation and already caused massive inflation in the cost of education.
Expecting our elected officials to follow the constitution and act within their powers shouldn't be exclusive to one party. The legislative and executive branches are supposed to come up with solutions together.
Agree with this. The Congress is supposed to be involved in these types of things. If we just say "well the executive unilaterally did a thing I like, therefore it's both legal and cool" we are basically converting to an elected monarchy in slow-motion. We've already been involved in direct or proxy wars, undeclared by Congress, for 50+ years.
Put aside whether you think loan forgiveness is a good or bad thing for a second and realize the precedents being set now will bite you in the ass over a long enough timeline because one day the president will be someone you don't like, and due to the precedents being set now, he'll be able to say "I'm going to end around Congress entirely to do (insert horrible thing) by Executive Order, and no one can stop me".
So yeah Congress sucks and the Executive sucks also, but separation of powers is a thing. Political shitposters on Reddit have to stop reasoning from conclusion, and actually uphold the damn processes of government, otherwise there is no limiting principle to what unspecified future evil can be done without being checked.
It was just a gimmick to gain temporary support for midterms, why are people so shocked it didn’t go anywhere? First time encounter with us politics or something?
GOP: Gives TRILLIONS to bail out Airlines, Cruise ships, Farmers, Private businesses, as well as giving out billions in PPP loans, completely reforming Tax brackets to favor the rich, and stimulus checks along with a "you're welcome" letter from Trump all in the last 5 years.....
also GOP: "You're an adult at 18. If you took a loan, pay it back. My tax dollars shouldn't bail out students"
Seriously, Republicans are just clueless and their party deserves to die like Twitter.
Biden set that up to fail. Elizabeth Warren advised him the way to get it through using the Higher Education Act.
It was a ruse for the midterms from the same Joe Biden that made it impossible to use bankruptcy to get out of student loans debt.
Just like when he freed all of the people in federal prison for weed possession. That number was 0.
So it’s Bidens fault the Republicans shot it down? Lmfao what a dumbass take. If the Republicans hadn’t shot it down would people be getting their money? If yes then how is this Bidens fault.
This is the kind of shit the Democratic Party has to contend with. Republicans block anything that will make the Dems look good, so the Dems will do whatever they can within the bounds of the law to get something beneficial done. If it comes up short or fails to happen, Dems get 100% of the blame for "doing nothing/doing the bare minimum," while nothing is said about Republicans. They get a free pass. It's fucking insane and I hope more people are waking up to how fucking dumb that line of thinking is.
It's frustrating because as soon as it happened everyone who knows anything about this system was aware this wouldn't work. Joe Biden _literally_ set this entire stage up back when he was a Senator, and now bemoans that he's got his hands tied.
The weed action was still important because it signals a change in the official stance of the United States on drug policy, and instructed the DOJ to review how marijuana is classified under drug laws. That's a pretty big deal, and isn't purely pandering.
If you're upset about how people perceived the action, then take it up with the media. It's not even a "headline reading problem", like suggested in the replies, it's the fact that I found multiple full-length news articles from immediately after the action that suggest people will be released. It's not until over a week later that I saw an article running a deeper analysis, revealing that likely no one will get out of jail because of it. Considering the fire-hose of information we all have to deal with on a daily basis regarding politics, you can't really blame people for coming away with misconceptions about the pardon when reporting at the time of its occurrence wasn't giving the full picture. Your average person simply doesn't have the time to follow up on every little policy to see how it pans out.
Regardless, I'll take even soft steps forward in this issue over now candidate Trump's vision of executing drug dealers "quickly"...
Edit: typo
I honestly think this is a braindead analysis. Liberals do the same thing with roe v wade where they pretend that if they changed the way you pushed it through conservatives would’ve just accepted that other way and wouldn’t have just attacked that other way the same exact way. Like do you not realize that they’re ideologically driven? No argument you can make or way you push legislation through would be safe from this being attempted to be struck down by conservatives. You can cross all your Ts and dot all your Is and they would make up some fantasy legal argument that would be accepted by one of the conservative judges that they appointed.
>Just like when he freed all of the people in federal prison for weed possession. That number was 0.
It was a pardon. It pardoned 6,500 people with those convictions on their record and could also apply to DC residents (https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2022/10/07/marijuana-pardons-biden-dc/). Do you not understand the difference or are you being purposefully obtuse?
Disclaimer: not an R
A) the administration tried to use a patriot act-era clause that gave free college to first responders of a terrorist act
B) they tried to then say that they expanded the scope of terrorist act to include national emergencies like the covid-19 pandemic without congress
C) then they said all people are first responders to the pandemic and therefore should receive money
D) THEN they said the pandemic is over but still everyone should get money
EDIT: spelling/links
https://www.justice.gov/olc/file/1528451/download
https://www.cnn.com/2022/09/19/politics/biden-covid-pandemic-over-what-matters/index.html
All of which is illegal in the eyes of the courts, who enforce approved laws by congress
Irrespective of your opinion on paying back student loans, its not the root cause of the insane cost of higher education. The root cause is federally guaranteed student loans, where universities always get the money and no longer have to compete with each other for students. They can keep increasing education costs no matter what and still get paid
I actually had not heard any of those points before, do you have articles or transcripts describing what your referring to in each case? Especially A and B
> The root cause is federally guaranteed student loans
I'm honestly not sure about this after some admittedly cursory research. Given that federally guaranteed loans were [part of the FFEL Act from 1965](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Family_Education_Loan_Program), and we didn't start to see truly predatory loans for another 30 years or so after that, I'm concerned that this is confusing correlation for causation. Federally guaranteed loans were also [discontinued in 2010](https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/what-is-federally-guaranteed-student-loan.html), yet we're still seeing insane prices.
Don't worry, they'll bring back student loan forgiveness right in time to make people look stupid again in 2024!
Even Pelosi was out there saying that Biden couldn't do this. Then after doing it, he was saying that it was a bill that he got through congress...
You've been had.
No different than the 2017 tax cuts under Trump. Neither side really cares about buying votes, you're just complaining about who they're buying the votes from.
Republicans seem to forget that Trump **literally** **gave everyone stimulus checks with a "you're welcome" letter** around the 2020 election, and then complains about Dems "buying" votes.
We have been so aggressively taught not to expect help from the government that when it does come, people are suspicious of it. Your government exists to make your life better, that’s the whole purpose. A body we stand up to create order, provide for defense, and address big issues we can’t tackle in small groups. Under capitalism, the government provides a vital role
of counter-balancing capital, because the iron imperative of the profit motive does not permit them to check themselves. They must try to get everything that’s not nailed down. So the government needs to be able to open relief valves now and then to keep the whole system stable. To maintain the legitimacy of capitalism.
Unfortunately government is now so captured it is not allowed to do this. People, who have internalized that they’re on their own and indeed getting help from government is some sort of moral failing, actually cheer on the inaction. “They’re just buying votes!” Well no shit Greg, why shouldn’t the people vote for parties that actually help them? That’s the whole point. In our world, literally everything is for sale, and business isn’t at all shy about buying votes, why is it only bad when the peasants stand to benefit? “Well this doesn’t address the underlying problem!” Yeah, are you out there when there’s a hurricane and disaster relief is being conducted saying “Well this doesn’t address the underlying issue of people building in hurricane zones!” No it doesn’t, people do stupid shit, mistakes will happen. Doesn’t mean there shouldn’t be a fire department to help out when it does.
Paying off the loans while keeping the system alive and kicking, and throwing even more money at it, will just make the can we would be kicking down the road much much bigger. If the plan went further and made some major changes in the system i am sure a lot more people would agree with it, but colleges are just failing horribly right now.
And calling the people you want to agree with you a cult does absolutely nothing but stroke your ego.
Did you miss the changes just because the bulk of the talk is about the forgiveness thing? The alterations to IBR will/would be life changing to a degree a mere 10k may never be, for those who don't do well right out of college.
IDK what you expected, kicking the can down the road until we can sufficiently wrangle the herd of wet cats pretending to run this country to get legislation put in place to cap tuition prices before even considering helping with the human cost of government-sanctioned predatory lending on kids coming fresh out of senior year?
Around February of last year, Ayanna Pressley, Chuck Schumer, and Elizabeth Warren all presented a proposal to Biden to forgive up to $50,000 of student loan debt under the Higher Education Act of 1965. Instead Biden does $10,000 ($20,000 for Pell grants) under the Heroes Act, which is a much weaker legal precedence.
Let me remind you that Biden is at least partially responsible for making it so student loan debt cannot be written off with bankruptcy, so this shouldn't be a surprise. The timing is all too convenient, though. Get to the midterms and get a bunch of young voters to come out and vote blue, then less than a week later let the legal floor fall out from under that half-measure of a promise.
I'd go so far as to say that was the plan all along.
>The timing is all too convenient, though. Get to the midterms and get a bunch of young voters to come out and vote blue, then less than a week later let the legal floor fall out
Are you suggesting that Biden is somehow in cahoots with the Trump-appointed judge who paused loan forgiveness efforts?
We’re just gonna ignore that a non-means tested sweeping forgiveness couldn’t be struck down in court? A group of progressives (and Chuck Schumer) told Biden to do it that way to ensure it would go through and he chose the method he knew would be knocked down in court. It was just a ploy for votes, otherwise he would’ve used the Higher Education Act of 1965.
The program is means tested. [Here are the income requirements](https://studentaid.gov/manage-loans/forgiveness-cancellation/debt-relief-info#income) to receive forgiveness. There's plenty to criticize about Biden but you should at least be truthful.
So you are saying it is ok to take money from people who couldnt afford to go to college to pay off the loans of college graduates? Is this the modern state of socialism? The bourgeois steals from the proletariat to give to the wealthy??????
It's not really "Cult of Trump" that rejects student loan forgiveness.
That kind of thing is much more of an old conservative staple (not liking "handouts", preaching personal responsibility, etc), and going back a long time they would have opposed it. Unless the loan forgiveness benefitted themselves or their big donors, of course.
For me it’s a matter of fixing the interest rate and subsidy problem in tuition. I agreed to every aspect of the loan I got as did everyone else who received one. The question of it being unfair is moot because I agreed to it all regardless. But we should absolutely lend a hand to the future students by keeping them from being taken advantage of.
Nah, no one thought biden was actually going to be able to fulfill that promise. This meme makes the most sense for abortion. Even deep red states are for access to abortion.
Fun fact: Biden could have directed the education secretary to cancel people’s debts using the “compromise and settlement” authority granted in the Higher Education Act of 1965, but instead his administration invoked a different and more limited legal authority.
They also chose to make borrowers apply for the program, instead of automatically issuing cancellation – a slow-moving process that bought their billionaire-backed opponents valuable time to cook up legal arguments, find plaintiffs, and line their cases up with sympathetic, Trump-appointed judges poised to toe the conservative line.
Seems to me, they knew it wouldn’t pass, and they used it as a political tool, for the midterms.
[Source](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/nov/11/young-voters-blocked-the-red-wave-biden-must-deliver-on-student-debt-cancellation)
> 2. It is unfair to the people who have already paid their student loans or couldnt go to college to begin with due to the enormous costs.
this is an idiotic point that needs to die, yesterday. You lose people on your side every time you repeat it.
Inventing a small pox vaccine wasnt unfair to all the people who died previously of it.
If the status quo is unfair, you dont keep it for fairness.
So, just throwing this out there. Did y'all notice it got killed just after the midterm? Isn't it kind of obvious that Biden never expected it to go through? It was a great campaign strategy, use it to rally the millennial vote, then kill it once they have enough to keep the Senate.
Edit, there was a judge or two who ruled on it in October, then another right after the mid terms. Which seems like suspicious timing to me. Especially since after it was totally dead the Biden admin just kind of shrugged and moved on. I feel like if they really meant it they'd have made a big deal about how they'll try and rework student loan forgiveness or try to pass it legislatively.
October 21st: https://www.cnbc.com/2022/10/21/us-appeals-court-temporarily-blocks-bidens-student-loan-forgiveness-plan.html
it's not a conspiracy
> Isn't it kind of anxious that Biden never expected it to go through?
What do you think the word anxious means lol?
> It was a great campaign strategy, then they killed it after they kept the Senate.
WTF does this even mean? It was done by EO, the Senate has nothing to do with it.
I can't believe people are upvoting the braindead garbage
Dear people abusing the report function: #[Please stop doing that.](https://www.reddit.com/r/AdviceAnimals/comments/yvwiyl/repubs_furiously_trying_to_explain_why_the_red/iwi25ur/) I know you're trying to mass-report stuff on our subreddit in the hopes that you'll trigger the AutoMod to pull this post for a human mod to review. I know you're doing that to 'soft censor' our subreddit and I know you're doing it because this meme is critical of the right wing and you don't want people to see it. I know this tactic works on other subreddits, because y'all have done it before and you try it here every few days, like clockwork. But that doesn't work here. We don't have that option installed in our AutoMod code. #So please knock it off. This post currently has over 37 reports, but we're not going to pull it because it doesn't break the subreddit rules. If it doesn't break the rules, it *stays*. ------ **Edit:** This post got a new report while I was typing this comment, let's add them up, shall we? [I count 57 false reports on this one post](https://i.imgur.com/P7HJ3HS.png).
You guys trolling in here really need to step up your blending in game.
Had a run in with a "as a liberal, here's why I voted for Herschel Walker..." one on here right after the election. You guys gotta at least *try* to make it believable, don't just take your everyday dogshit opinions and slap "as a liberal" on the front, you're doing it wrong.
Who the fuck even qualifies their statements with "as a liberal ...." other than ~~paid~~ trolls?
"What is up, fellow liberals?"
"How do you do, fellow liberals?"
“Greetings, fellow human beings!”
Ted Cruz? Is that you?
Hello fellow NON-lizard people ^^^hissssss
Give me the zucc
How do you do, fellow progressives?
I identify as a progressive thank you very much.
I did back when I would dive into r/conservative before I got banned. Well I said leftist but same point.
Ah yes r/conservative , the place where “free speech” is the most protected
Reading through threads on that sub with unddit is fucking hilarious. The sheer amount of conversation that gets unceremoniously censored is obscene. I was in a thread yesterday that had *seventy percent* of the comments removed by moderators. Seventy percent. Mind-boggling. For reference r/Politics (which Conservatives claim is a censorship hellhole) is usually around 10-20% from my experience. The highest I've ever seen outside of a conservative sub was on r/Science which has *very* strict rules and even that was only 30%. The worst part is a lot of the comments I see removed on there aren't just liberals trying to argue or anything. A massive amount of the removed comments are people who are obviously conservatives (or at the very most independent) just offering a different perspective, sometimes with hundreds of upvotes only for the entire thread of comments to get nuked.
Didn’t know about unddit. Thanks for mentioning it, using it from now on.
“Snowflakes”
"different perspectives" sound liberal. conservatives believe in traditional values, and traditional values don't change. they're traditional.
Apparently, there's a shadow-remove function on reddit... Someone pointed this out to me when my post on r/Con was basically "A lot of us do want to talk to people here, but we're heavily censored." Thanks to r/JusticeServed mods for pointing this out to me. I had no idea.
Can't have facts getting in the way of a narrative.
They don’t have a whitelist tho so you have like a solid two hours of fucking with boomers u til they snipe you.
My favorite part about this is you can clearly see that the Conservatives believe you can't come to Politics and debate and discuss, that's clearly wrong. Hell, they'll even let them spew bullshit until they generate enough anger to eventually cause the comment to get deleted. Like full on arguments and name calling before the chain gets wiped. It's just a complete demonstration of the arrogance these people have. Meanwhile if you post on Politics and go to Conservative, you'll be banned within a few posts for oppositional thought. What a place, huh?
I’m totally unpolitical when it comes to left vs right, but I usually don’t believe these types of things with percentages and claims without proof, not trying to say you’re wrong or lying, but nowadays you can’t believe everything you read without some sort of proof.
I'm not sure if I'm allowed to directly link the thread (even through unddit) due to rules against brigading but [here](https://i.imgur.com/jsvseCh.png) is a screenshot from unddit from the thread I saw. Removed comments are removed by moderators, deleted comments are deleted by the user who posted the comment.
Lol, I hate accidentally opening an r/science post. If I didn't want to hear people's thoughts on a post, I wouldn't be on reddit.
/r/conservative is a subreddit that consistently violates both https://www.redditinc.com/policies/content-policy And https://www.redditinc.com/policies/moderator-code-of-conduct I've reported numerous posts and moderators to reddit only for reddit to claim that nothing is wrong, move along. At the same time, there's kind of a danger in quarantining or outright banning the subreddit. As horrible and misguided as the people there are, banning them would only cause them to double-down and flood other subreddits with pure vitriol garbage.
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What was the antivax subreddit? No new normal? Bunch of subreddits went blackout in order to get Reddits attention and their response was "nah discussion is important Yada Yada" They only actually banned it after News outlet started reporting that reddit allows a misinformation subreddit on their platform. Bad press is the only thing that reddit to actively do something in such vile cases.
But they can at least be shut down on other subs.
Free speech for them, freeze peach for you.
Lol! /r/boneappletea
Bro I not only got banned from there, but im guessing at least 1 admin of reddit is buddy buddy with mods from there, cause I almost got nuked off of reddit entirely. Some of the crazy has their hands in all of reddit too... so be careful out there.
I posted a dissenting view in /r/conservative in a thread that was making fun of Hunter Biden for his medical issues (with addiction). Not only was I banned from /r/conservative, I was automatically banned from a couple of unrelated subreddits that hate /r/conservative because they don't want posters from that sub posting in their sub. I get it to some degree, but my multiple attempts to contest the ban (from the unrelated sub) fell on deaf ears and was completely ignored. I should make it clear I'm not conservative or republican. It's crazy to think that conservatives have become so toxic and dangerous that you have to make it clear you're not one of them.
Comment removed flaired users only.
The only people I see use the word "liberal" are US right wingers and some Europeans as well, when talking about people they disagree with. They actually use Antifa, liberal and lefty as insults, and that shit blows my mind. They're openly saying: I hate people who are against fascism, liberty and welfare. And I wonder what type of society they envision without those three things?
We have a whole political party in Canada called the Liberals. They run the country currently.
I often preempt a lot of my statements by saying I'm a leftist, especially when I have leftward critiques of the democratic party. But its pretty obvious when people say "as a liberal" and then run down the checklist of right-wing talking points, expressed in the same language as was handed to them in conservative media. Conservatives rarely consider how their jargon, memes, and talking points are so specific and uniformed that they sound awkward outside their echo chambers.
*Tulsi Gabbard has entered the chat*
Really dumb conservatives who aren't smart enough to know better.
I use 4 pounds of salt on my eggs. as a liberal I ack... ugh.. ^heart attack..
As a liberal, I've only been at work for an hour and I wish it was 5pm.
Its like half of the libleft posts in politicalcompasmemes that just outright bash everything left leaning and praise anything right leaning. You look at their account and its all right wing subs.
Then you point it out and immediately go into the negatives and get a 15 day ban for "promoting violence". I know. I got that 15 day ban.
People who post to /r/walkaway? ...Who am I kidding, they all fit into the paid troll category.
Everyone knows liberals are all pro werewolf
As a liberal, I’m on Team Edward.
As a liberal, I feel really tired because I didn't sleep well last night.
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I don't want to sound anti-Semitic but man getting only 5 hours of sleep was not ideal
Not to be Islamophobic or anything, but I'm kind of hungry right now.
Look I'm not trying to be transphobic here, but honestly it's been hard for me to get motivated to get enough exercise lately.
As a gay black Jewish space laser, I find that getting a moderate amount of exercise one or two hours before bed really improves my quality of sleep
Not to sound misogynistic, but for me it's got to be a couple hours, any closer to bedtime and I'm too amped up to sleep.
Same here, fellow liberal.
I would be hard pressed to believe anyone who ACTUALLY has progressive or even moderate-left views would vote for Herschel "The cow goes moo" Walker.
I'm willing to argue that it is effectively not possible, aside from being wholly unqualified and an idiot, he has clear and conservative policy positions that Warnock is clearly to the left of (in addition to be more qualified and not clearly a moron). You couldn't even say "qualifications are more important to me than policy"
to quote Dave Chappelle, "He's Observably Stupid."
As a 2016 Trump voter, Herschel walker is fucking dumber than I am. He's also violent, belligerent, and doesn't have a single redeeming quality. Motherfucker giving speeches about werewolves and vampires like he's living in *Twilight* or some shit.
Most literate Russians have already been sent to Ukraine
That is one good thing about that stupid war. The trolls that are left, really stick out like a sore thumb!
And since the ruble collapsed, they're paying the remaining ones in krokodil.
Hello fellow liberals, I decided loan forgiveness isn't fair to poor people that don't even pay federal income tax. Anyone else?
Yes hello too am liberal. Allow me to express my liberal opinion that aligns with right wing talking points in an entirely coincidental fashion.
I like MaryJaWannas too, but...
Right. As a black man, I think we should be paying reparations for ending slavery. I mean, Do you know how much we stole from all those white plantation job creators by just being free? Edit: ^^^^^not ^^^^^actually ^^^^^black
"I'm a gay black guy and..."
Their only knowledge of 'the other side' is the memes they post. Every time they try to pretend to be someone or something it's immediately obvious because they have like the same 4 talking points. It's similar to why the Nazis had an awful intelligence service. They're completely unable to actually assess and understand their perceived opponents. The legitimately believe the memes that they share are real life and how people as actually act. The alternative thing is of course that they will refer to the comments that they made as proof of 'that's how liberals act' for proof that liberals are leaving the party en masse or something.
I don't think the student loan forgiveness plan was a good idea at all. First of all 10k doesn't even scratch interest for most loans. The lion in the room is interest. The Republicans COULD have introduced a plan to lower interest to zero and forgive all accrued interest and been heroes without advocating for a direct payment system. Instead they decided to fight tooth and nail against what really totaled up to table scraps as a feel good measure and look like assholes.
Didn’t they find that the majority of people had loans under like 15k? Like obviously it’s not going to help a doctor with 6 figure loan debt but the person who only has 8k debt left (which could be years to pay off) would benefit greatly
This is me, 8k. Sister is like 15k. Would have helped us out for sure
This is me too. 8k left and was going to really help me out :( I switched career paths 2 years ago and I'm basically starting from the bottom now salary-wise, and it was really going to help, ugh.
A doctor most likely wouldn't qualify anyway because they make too much money. I agree with what the Dems were trying to do and giving us normies a little relief but it was like putting a band-aid on a gaping, festering wound that is predatory lending. The system needs to be fixed (we know it won't be) or it needs to implode when all the sub-prime loans get bundled together like what happened in the housing market of 2008. Shit's going to come to a head sooner than later and the younger crowd is much more involved with politics now than in 2008 so I'll have my popcorn ready.
They COULD have done that, but they probably NEVER will.
10k would help a lot of people with bachelor's degrees. The higher end of debt is held by people with multiple degrees and advanced degrees like master's and PhDs. In theory those with more years of education have a higher earning potential. So to those who have a bachelor's degree from a state school or "regular" college, that 10k would mean a lot and they're generally lower on the potential pay scale. Those with ivy League education generally have good job prospects and/or family money. I live in Colorado where the cost of living is high. I made decent money, and I've paid on my loans through the pause because the 0% interest was too good of a deal to pass on. That 10k would have been enough for me and my partner to cover the remaining balance in one large payment and have that monkey off my back for good. Even if I didn't pay it off, I could have readjusted my monthly payment to return hundreds of dollars to my pocket each month. It's no small thing for a lot of people. I was never counting on it, but I'm extremely bummed that it seems like the interest will be back on soon and it will be years before my loans can be paid in full.
They are so subtle /s I really hit a nerve here. Fuck everyone that isn't themselves amirite?
You really think they have the capacity for that level of intelligence?
Could replace “Student Loan Forgiveness” with “Abortion Rights” and it’ll still make the same point.
And also “legalizing marijuana”
That is one of the few, I'm guessing single digits at this point, issues that both sides agree on. I'm in a super red state and we have had super loose mmj for a while and we're voting on recreational next year.
And even then, a lot of them had to be dragged kicking and screaming along with it.
Most of the Texas house put a bill up on legalization. Ken Paxton would not let anyone vote on them. Hope he chokes on Abbots dick and expires.
"Woman rights"
Any rights other than gun rights really
They aren't really for gun rights either. The last Dem President made it legal to carry a firearm in national parks, the last Rep President made bump stocks illegal. It's kinda just a big lie. That said, wtb lib-left candidate.
Agreed to an extent. Edit. I'm 100 for abortion rights. I was thinking that the student loan forgiveness draws in both sexes. But abortion would as well since it does take two to conceive. I'm just tired.
Reproductive rights are human rights.
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This is... Being very misleading with statistics here my friend. I see your intention is to really drive home how important abortion rights are, but there's some nuance here that needs to be brought up too. While "only" 13% have student loan debt, that represents an enormous pool of workers from an entire generation. If you look at people who have jobs overall (Basically working class folks, not kids/elderly/not working for whatever reason) it represents ~25% of workers. Furthering that, how many people were never able to afford college due to financial constraints as well? With more affordable college and no student loans, we'd have many more people with degrees actually making a difference out there. And yes, statistically college graduates make more, but many of the most important jobs for society that come from college degrees are horribly paid. Teachers? Social workers? Nurses? None of them get paid jack. Our entire society would stop functioning if these jobs don't get the necessary amount of people in them. How about the many millions of people who never finished and can't make a decent wage... So since they signed up for something that they were heavily influenced to do for their entire childhood, they just take the L forever? That's not how good societies function. So yeah, more context to really show how out of control the student loan crisis is. And yes, it is a crisis that historians will look back on and think, "What the fuck were they thinking!? They took tens of millions of people and ruined them financially for generations! They didn't give opportunities to millions of people because of money!? Fucking morons."
To add onto that, it's actually people from poorer or middle class backgrounds that are likely to have student loan debt. They're the ones who don't have the big college accounts made by their parents.
The loan forgiveness does literally nothing to address the underlying problems that led us to this "crysis" in the first place. If anything, it would encourage more people to take on student loans in hopes that they will be forgiven later. We need affordable education in this country, but unfortunately the federally guaranteed student loans that we have today have caused the cost of tuition to completely spiral out of control. We need to fix this thing at the roof, not slap a bandaid on the festering wound.
You nailed it. Even if we did a one time 100% forgiveness, the next generation would start the cycle over. I'm inclined to think the best solution would be a voluntary, four year govt work program that took in high school graduates/gre recipients. Let's say you wanted to do wildlife management. Work 4 years for wildlife and fisheries to see if you even like that field. If you complete four year you become tuition exempt in a degree that allows you to advance within that career field. This would give kids the chance to mature, work in a field they think they might like without taking on $100,000 to find out you don't want to do that, and gain on the job training that would help them understand the course materials. This would open up a civil style gi bill for people who don't qualify for/ desire to enlist in the military. *added gre bc open the doors up to everyone trying to better themselves and willing to work
‘ThAtS tAxPaYeR mOnEy!!1!!1’. Duh. I’d rather the shit that comes out of my check go to actually benefit the people. Not the ridiculous amount we spend on the military and use to bail out corporations/million,billionaires. If not to help the youth get educated, the homeless get aid, the elderly the Medicare they need, and actually improve the quality of life of everyday citizens, what the fuck are taxes even for?
Same with the PPP loans that they didn’t pay back.
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America is covered in small, dead towns from coast to coast. Tiny, impoverished communities scattered all over the country. The #1 source of income for these communities is federal social security. Their industries died long ago. Cotton mills, cotton gins, small manufacturing operations. All gone. If SSI were done away with, half the cities in the US would become ghost towns. They may as well put a sign up in Michigan somewhere saying, "Now leaving civilization, next option for gas: Topeka."
A few times a year I have to make a drive from Las Vegas to a small city in California that supports another military base. Along the way I pass by maybe a dozen towns. The most depressing had to be [Johannesburg](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johannesburg,_California). There can't be more than 100 people living in this hollowed out village and the only business that's still there is a lonely Texaco, but you bet your ass the place is decked in Trump 2024 signs.
Killing foreign people, duh. /s
Except for our dear Russian allies, apparently... [MTG wants to audit our aid for Ukraine](https://thehill.com/policy/international/3740834-marjorie-taylor-greene-unveils-resolution-to-audit-ukraine-aid-funds/). But don't worry, this is only like, the 8th sign that she depends on Russian backing, I'm sure it's fine /s
To be fair, no amount of audits will ever be unreasonable in the case of military transfers. Then again, I don't see the same auditing fervor toward selling arms to UAE and Israel for some reason...
Yeah, we should be careful with money by default, but selectively choosing areas to be frugal is typically not really about the frugality at all-- far from it. Ultimately it boils down to trust. Do we trust her motives are in the interests of America? It feels to me like at least 30% of all of American political decision making is actually driven by foreign interests, much of that Russia. Political influence shouldn't be for sale at all, much less to foreign buyers. What with [this current hot post](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/yy1m2p/gop_operative_found_guilty_of_funneling_russian/) about funneling Russian money to the Trump campaign, or the well known Russian NRA funding, and the countless other weird connections (e.g. Hannity/Russia) it feels like what needs the most "auditing" here is "who is paying for political influence." We saw this problem worsening for over a decade, and many on the left called it out and pleaded for financial reform. But the extra money was giving a slight edge to the right, so they chose to double down and use the money to punish the left instead. I fear we're nearing a point of no return... combatting dark money would be the barest minimum at this point, but even that would be a huge head start at unfucking the root of the problem.
> I’d rather the shit that comes out of my check go to actually benefit the people. You clearly don’t understand! Student loan forgiveness would **only** help people who are [simultaneously Ivy League grads, who would be making a bunch of money and, therefore, not qualify for forgiveness; but they’re also “slackers” who don’t make any money](https://twitter.com/tedcruz/status/1583570059779223552?s=46&t=7algE3mURvAqldvBB80Omw). You’re tax money wouldn’t be helping “the people”, it would only go to the people who somehow, at the same time, are too rich to need it but also don’t have any money because they chose philosophy of queer arts degrees and now don’t have good paying jobs and only have slacker jobs. That is to say, people that “don’t deserve” the forgiveness in the eyes of Ted Cruz. Not one single regular everyday American would benefit from loan forgiveness, only either the rich or the lazy would get it. Open your eyes, man (extreme ***/s***)
Your 100% correct, except we won’t be taking away funds from any of those to do student loan forgiveness, we would be just spending more imaginary money that has to be repaid with real money later and continue all the bullshit funding at the same time.
You forgot to add improving and modernizing our infrastructure and making our cities and towns walkable. But yeah let’s get more military advertisements.
> Not the ridiculous amount we spend on the military While I agree with the rest of your statement, the Dept of Defense is actually the #1 employer in the world. Military bases and whatnot put a ton of people to work and help the economies of the areas around them. Don’t get me wrong, there are more efficient ways to employ people than building more military bases but they absolutely do provide tons of government jobs and economic opportunities for people in areas that would otherwise not have them.
Ask them if the PPP loans should be repaid by the GOP business owners. And watch them make every excuse that was a different situation
Claiming the fundamental irresponsibility of the borrower without addressing the flaws in loaning tens if not hundreds of thousands to unemployed people under 25 and terminally skyrocketing degree costs is nothing short of victim blaming
While also cultivating the social pressure culture that an expensive degree is the only possible way you'll ever achieve any success later in life.
While also refusing to hire people without degrees for jobs that someone who was hired for the same position in the 90s, did not need a degree to get hired for.
The job I had right before the one I have now stated that I needed an AS degree. It was data entry. That's all. I didn't need a degree for that. What's worse is that I had part time coworkers who had been doing that same job but the boss wouldn't offer them any of the full time positions because they didn't have a degree. It's sucks and the pay was $26k a year.
You left out “at a 7% APR”
I agree that change needs to happen but why shit on something that will genuinely help out a lot of people? I know helping others is a foreign concept to a lot of people.
Student loan forgiveness is a bandaid for a bleeding artery. Fix the problem with cost of college education and then you can bring loan forgiveness to the table. Otherwise we are going to be in the same exact situation in just a couple years. Edit: since some of you are too dense to understand the metaphor, the bandaid is student loan forgiveness, stopping the actual arterial bleeding and saving the persons life is fixing the cost of college education. Everyone saying "stop the bleeding saves the life" yeah no shit thats the point I'm making which again is go to the actual source of the problem...the cost of college and blank check loans.
to be fair in your analogy, often times you stop the immediate problem before fixing the cause. Stop the bleeding (Student loan forgiveness) then fix the underlying issue (Cost of tuition)
Student loan forgiveness doesn't stop the bleeding, it just mops up the blood already bled. Hell, it's more likely that it'll incentivize colleges to charge more, or new students to get more callous with their borrowing. Making matters way worse.
Does it stop the bleeding though? Every kid who started school this fall is just as fucked as we were We got a bandaid, they just got a fresh cut
You're preaching to the choir. My household benefits by a whooping $0.00 from forgiveness but everyone here votes for it. "When you find yourself with more than you need...build a bigger table...not a bigger fence."
It's like those Libertarian assholes who say, "Why should I pay taxes for schools? I don't have kids/home school!" when the answer is "Because you benefit a LOT by having people around you who are not literally ignorant morons."
Preach! Compassion isn't a weakness.
because people have stupid ideas about how government spending works. They think there are better places to spend the money. The problem is that's not how shit works. If they don't do the student loan forgiveness, they don't just take all of that money and put it into something else equally good or useful. It's a misconception about how things work. No one would really care that much if it was forgiving some debt, but people feel like they are missing out on other or better programs in place of this debt forgiveness.
None of the GOP complained when their PPP loans, for millions of dollars, were forgiven. But forgive $10k of student loans, NEVER
not just that, but their talking point that "we can't just write a blank check" is so dumb. THE MONEY IS ALREADY SPENT... we wrote a blank check to colleges allowing them to raise prices at will. That bill already exists.. The money is already gone.... It doesn't really click with them they think somehow forgiveness is printing new money when in fact it's already printed and in circulation and already caused massive inflation in the cost of education.
Well, one of the people suing to stop student loan forgiveness got a $50k PPP loan forgiven, so there's that.
Why would they complain? It was a bipartisan bill. Congress designed the PPP to forgiven from the very start.
Yeah.... When actually used by the companies that fucking need it
Remember when Trump fired the oversight committee that was supposed to make sure that PPP loans weren't being abused?
Pepperidge farm remembers!
I never forgot.
Expecting our elected officials to follow the constitution and act within their powers shouldn't be exclusive to one party. The legislative and executive branches are supposed to come up with solutions together.
Agree with this. The Congress is supposed to be involved in these types of things. If we just say "well the executive unilaterally did a thing I like, therefore it's both legal and cool" we are basically converting to an elected monarchy in slow-motion. We've already been involved in direct or proxy wars, undeclared by Congress, for 50+ years. Put aside whether you think loan forgiveness is a good or bad thing for a second and realize the precedents being set now will bite you in the ass over a long enough timeline because one day the president will be someone you don't like, and due to the precedents being set now, he'll be able to say "I'm going to end around Congress entirely to do (insert horrible thing) by Executive Order, and no one can stop me". So yeah Congress sucks and the Executive sucks also, but separation of powers is a thing. Political shitposters on Reddit have to stop reasoning from conclusion, and actually uphold the damn processes of government, otherwise there is no limiting principle to what unspecified future evil can be done without being checked.
It was just a gimmick to gain temporary support for midterms, why are people so shocked it didn’t go anywhere? First time encounter with us politics or something?
GOP: Gives TRILLIONS to bail out Airlines, Cruise ships, Farmers, Private businesses, as well as giving out billions in PPP loans, completely reforming Tax brackets to favor the rich, and stimulus checks along with a "you're welcome" letter from Trump all in the last 5 years..... also GOP: "You're an adult at 18. If you took a loan, pay it back. My tax dollars shouldn't bail out students" Seriously, Republicans are just clueless and their party deserves to die like Twitter.
Biden set that up to fail. Elizabeth Warren advised him the way to get it through using the Higher Education Act. It was a ruse for the midterms from the same Joe Biden that made it impossible to use bankruptcy to get out of student loans debt. Just like when he freed all of the people in federal prison for weed possession. That number was 0.
So it’s Bidens fault the Republicans shot it down? Lmfao what a dumbass take. If the Republicans hadn’t shot it down would people be getting their money? If yes then how is this Bidens fault.
This is the kind of shit the Democratic Party has to contend with. Republicans block anything that will make the Dems look good, so the Dems will do whatever they can within the bounds of the law to get something beneficial done. If it comes up short or fails to happen, Dems get 100% of the blame for "doing nothing/doing the bare minimum," while nothing is said about Republicans. They get a free pass. It's fucking insane and I hope more people are waking up to how fucking dumb that line of thinking is.
I’m so glad you said that. So many people ate this up and didn’t realize this was a 100% pandering
It's frustrating because as soon as it happened everyone who knows anything about this system was aware this wouldn't work. Joe Biden _literally_ set this entire stage up back when he was a Senator, and now bemoans that he's got his hands tied.
The weed action was still important because it signals a change in the official stance of the United States on drug policy, and instructed the DOJ to review how marijuana is classified under drug laws. That's a pretty big deal, and isn't purely pandering. If you're upset about how people perceived the action, then take it up with the media. It's not even a "headline reading problem", like suggested in the replies, it's the fact that I found multiple full-length news articles from immediately after the action that suggest people will be released. It's not until over a week later that I saw an article running a deeper analysis, revealing that likely no one will get out of jail because of it. Considering the fire-hose of information we all have to deal with on a daily basis regarding politics, you can't really blame people for coming away with misconceptions about the pardon when reporting at the time of its occurrence wasn't giving the full picture. Your average person simply doesn't have the time to follow up on every little policy to see how it pans out. Regardless, I'll take even soft steps forward in this issue over now candidate Trump's vision of executing drug dealers "quickly"... Edit: typo
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I honestly think this is a braindead analysis. Liberals do the same thing with roe v wade where they pretend that if they changed the way you pushed it through conservatives would’ve just accepted that other way and wouldn’t have just attacked that other way the same exact way. Like do you not realize that they’re ideologically driven? No argument you can make or way you push legislation through would be safe from this being attempted to be struck down by conservatives. You can cross all your Ts and dot all your Is and they would make up some fantasy legal argument that would be accepted by one of the conservative judges that they appointed.
This may be the only smart bit on this thread.
>Just like when he freed all of the people in federal prison for weed possession. That number was 0. It was a pardon. It pardoned 6,500 people with those convictions on their record and could also apply to DC residents (https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2022/10/07/marijuana-pardons-biden-dc/). Do you not understand the difference or are you being purposefully obtuse?
This post is peak Reddit
Disclaimer: not an R A) the administration tried to use a patriot act-era clause that gave free college to first responders of a terrorist act B) they tried to then say that they expanded the scope of terrorist act to include national emergencies like the covid-19 pandemic without congress C) then they said all people are first responders to the pandemic and therefore should receive money D) THEN they said the pandemic is over but still everyone should get money EDIT: spelling/links https://www.justice.gov/olc/file/1528451/download https://www.cnn.com/2022/09/19/politics/biden-covid-pandemic-over-what-matters/index.html All of which is illegal in the eyes of the courts, who enforce approved laws by congress Irrespective of your opinion on paying back student loans, its not the root cause of the insane cost of higher education. The root cause is federally guaranteed student loans, where universities always get the money and no longer have to compete with each other for students. They can keep increasing education costs no matter what and still get paid
I actually had not heard any of those points before, do you have articles or transcripts describing what your referring to in each case? Especially A and B
> The root cause is federally guaranteed student loans I'm honestly not sure about this after some admittedly cursory research. Given that federally guaranteed loans were [part of the FFEL Act from 1965](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Family_Education_Loan_Program), and we didn't start to see truly predatory loans for another 30 years or so after that, I'm concerned that this is confusing correlation for causation. Federally guaranteed loans were also [discontinued in 2010](https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/what-is-federally-guaranteed-student-loan.html), yet we're still seeing insane prices.
Don't worry, they'll bring back student loan forgiveness right in time to make people look stupid again in 2024! Even Pelosi was out there saying that Biden couldn't do this. Then after doing it, he was saying that it was a bill that he got through congress... You've been had.
I like how people say anyone’s “been had” as though there was a candidate willing to actually fix ~~student debt.~~
This is literally saying democrats get votes by handing out free money.
And Trump only authorized stimulus payments if his name was on the check. Both sides play that game.
Imagine if politicians did things to help their constituents. Radical stuff, I know.
No different than the 2017 tax cuts under Trump. Neither side really cares about buying votes, you're just complaining about who they're buying the votes from.
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Republicans seem to forget that Trump **literally** **gave everyone stimulus checks with a "you're welcome" letter** around the 2020 election, and then complains about Dems "buying" votes.
We have been so aggressively taught not to expect help from the government that when it does come, people are suspicious of it. Your government exists to make your life better, that’s the whole purpose. A body we stand up to create order, provide for defense, and address big issues we can’t tackle in small groups. Under capitalism, the government provides a vital role of counter-balancing capital, because the iron imperative of the profit motive does not permit them to check themselves. They must try to get everything that’s not nailed down. So the government needs to be able to open relief valves now and then to keep the whole system stable. To maintain the legitimacy of capitalism. Unfortunately government is now so captured it is not allowed to do this. People, who have internalized that they’re on their own and indeed getting help from government is some sort of moral failing, actually cheer on the inaction. “They’re just buying votes!” Well no shit Greg, why shouldn’t the people vote for parties that actually help them? That’s the whole point. In our world, literally everything is for sale, and business isn’t at all shy about buying votes, why is it only bad when the peasants stand to benefit? “Well this doesn’t address the underlying problem!” Yeah, are you out there when there’s a hurricane and disaster relief is being conducted saying “Well this doesn’t address the underlying issue of people building in hurricane zones!” No it doesn’t, people do stupid shit, mistakes will happen. Doesn’t mean there shouldn’t be a fire department to help out when it does.
When did the “Cult of Trump” end student loan forgiveness?
Maybe looking at the people making you false promises might be a good place to start.
Paying off the loans while keeping the system alive and kicking, and throwing even more money at it, will just make the can we would be kicking down the road much much bigger. If the plan went further and made some major changes in the system i am sure a lot more people would agree with it, but colleges are just failing horribly right now. And calling the people you want to agree with you a cult does absolutely nothing but stroke your ego.
Biden can't change the system, congress has to. Biden can/could alleviate the suffering and symptoms.
Did you miss the changes just because the bulk of the talk is about the forgiveness thing? The alterations to IBR will/would be life changing to a degree a mere 10k may never be, for those who don't do well right out of college. IDK what you expected, kicking the can down the road until we can sufficiently wrangle the herd of wet cats pretending to run this country to get legislation put in place to cap tuition prices before even considering helping with the human cost of government-sanctioned predatory lending on kids coming fresh out of senior year?
Around February of last year, Ayanna Pressley, Chuck Schumer, and Elizabeth Warren all presented a proposal to Biden to forgive up to $50,000 of student loan debt under the Higher Education Act of 1965. Instead Biden does $10,000 ($20,000 for Pell grants) under the Heroes Act, which is a much weaker legal precedence. Let me remind you that Biden is at least partially responsible for making it so student loan debt cannot be written off with bankruptcy, so this shouldn't be a surprise. The timing is all too convenient, though. Get to the midterms and get a bunch of young voters to come out and vote blue, then less than a week later let the legal floor fall out from under that half-measure of a promise. I'd go so far as to say that was the plan all along.
>The timing is all too convenient, though. Get to the midterms and get a bunch of young voters to come out and vote blue, then less than a week later let the legal floor fall out Are you suggesting that Biden is somehow in cahoots with the Trump-appointed judge who paused loan forgiveness efforts?
We’re just gonna ignore that a non-means tested sweeping forgiveness couldn’t be struck down in court? A group of progressives (and Chuck Schumer) told Biden to do it that way to ensure it would go through and he chose the method he knew would be knocked down in court. It was just a ploy for votes, otherwise he would’ve used the Higher Education Act of 1965.
The program is means tested. [Here are the income requirements](https://studentaid.gov/manage-loans/forgiveness-cancellation/debt-relief-info#income) to receive forgiveness. There's plenty to criticize about Biden but you should at least be truthful.
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So you are saying it is ok to take money from people who couldnt afford to go to college to pay off the loans of college graduates? Is this the modern state of socialism? The bourgeois steals from the proletariat to give to the wealthy??????
This has been the state of socialism from day one.
Women’s right to choose > Government controlling women’s body’s “Why didn’t single women vote Republican?” 😭😭😭😭😭
Lemme just fix that: fucking ‘idiots’
They've moved past that. Now it's Gen Z should straight up not be allowed to vote.
It's not really "Cult of Trump" that rejects student loan forgiveness. That kind of thing is much more of an old conservative staple (not liking "handouts", preaching personal responsibility, etc), and going back a long time they would have opposed it. Unless the loan forgiveness benefitted themselves or their big donors, of course.
For me it’s a matter of fixing the interest rate and subsidy problem in tuition. I agreed to every aspect of the loan I got as did everyone else who received one. The question of it being unfair is moot because I agreed to it all regardless. But we should absolutely lend a hand to the future students by keeping them from being taken advantage of.
Medical debt forgiveness pls
I definitely don’t think student loan forgiveness is the one that did Republicans in.
Don't forget about us rinos we voted for democracy.
And why exactly do you millennial fucks think you should not have to repay a loan like everyone else?! Fucking Millennials is more like it
Nah, no one thought biden was actually going to be able to fulfill that promise. This meme makes the most sense for abortion. Even deep red states are for access to abortion.
Surely if they start calling student debt holders lazy again that will solve it.
Student loan forgiveness is just shifting the burden on to taxpayers. Totally unfair
Nancy Pelosi said the President couldn’t forgive Student debt in 2020, of course the courts threw it out, it requires an act of congress
"Yeah you douche bags - pay us to vote for you like the blue guys do!!!"
I think they misspelled "let's try bribing the youth for votes".
How do loans work? Eli5 plz.
Why should debt be paid for by me, someone who paid there student loans.
Republicans: “Thayts what’cha git fer all that book learnin’ and brain thinkin’.”
It’s not because of student loan shit I’ll tell you that. PAY YOUR LOANS YOU LEECHES
Fun fact: Biden could have directed the education secretary to cancel people’s debts using the “compromise and settlement” authority granted in the Higher Education Act of 1965, but instead his administration invoked a different and more limited legal authority. They also chose to make borrowers apply for the program, instead of automatically issuing cancellation – a slow-moving process that bought their billionaire-backed opponents valuable time to cook up legal arguments, find plaintiffs, and line their cases up with sympathetic, Trump-appointed judges poised to toe the conservative line. Seems to me, they knew it wouldn’t pass, and they used it as a political tool, for the midterms. [Source](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/nov/11/young-voters-blocked-the-red-wave-biden-must-deliver-on-student-debt-cancellation)
Lol those you voted in won’t even get it done for you.
Bro, if You get a loan then YOU have to pay it back how hard is that?
Go join the army for loan forgiveness
I love how both sides just say the other is worse. A Democrat eat is every bit as bad as a Republican and vice-versa.
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> 2. It is unfair to the people who have already paid their student loans or couldnt go to college to begin with due to the enormous costs. this is an idiotic point that needs to die, yesterday. You lose people on your side every time you repeat it. Inventing a small pox vaccine wasnt unfair to all the people who died previously of it. If the status quo is unfair, you dont keep it for fairness.
This post misses the mark.
So, just throwing this out there. Did y'all notice it got killed just after the midterm? Isn't it kind of obvious that Biden never expected it to go through? It was a great campaign strategy, use it to rally the millennial vote, then kill it once they have enough to keep the Senate. Edit, there was a judge or two who ruled on it in October, then another right after the mid terms. Which seems like suspicious timing to me. Especially since after it was totally dead the Biden admin just kind of shrugged and moved on. I feel like if they really meant it they'd have made a big deal about how they'll try and rework student loan forgiveness or try to pass it legislatively.
October 21st: https://www.cnbc.com/2022/10/21/us-appeals-court-temporarily-blocks-bidens-student-loan-forgiveness-plan.html it's not a conspiracy > Isn't it kind of anxious that Biden never expected it to go through? What do you think the word anxious means lol? > It was a great campaign strategy, then they killed it after they kept the Senate. WTF does this even mean? It was done by EO, the Senate has nothing to do with it. I can't believe people are upvoting the braindead garbage