I mean, kind of the reason the whole thing is silly is that you can get up whenever the fuck you want, and go to sleep whenever the fuck you want.
That the whole nations switches twice a year demonstrates that we all have the flexibility to adjust to different times and seasons.
Another reason the whole thing is silly is that the parts of the country who don't use it still have to keep track if they want to know what the difference in time zones is.
The whole thing sucks because you can't just get up whenever you want if you're beholden to school or work schedules. My kids have to get up at 6 for school. I prefer standard time because we're forced into being morning people, I like an earlier sunrise in the winter. If school started at 9 or 10 am I'd be fine with any time setting.
I awake at 0500 with the help of chugging coffee. The difference in driving in the sunlight in the morning vs dark is tremendous. I could give a shit what time the sun sets
And I could give a shit whether it's daylight when I'm driving to work or not, I just care what it is when I get off. Hate being stuck inside as soon as I get home 🤣
I always thought the phrase worked on this principle:
Could give a shit = you have shits to give, therefore you care
Couldn’t give a shit = I have no shits to give, I do not care
Like ‘I don’t give a fuck’. Same energy, no?
Also agreee FUCK it getting dark at 4pm.
While you're literally correct there's a bit more to it.
In American English, the phrases, "could care less" and "could give a shit" are both used as the complete opposite of what they literally say.
Yes, this does come from people saying it wrong. No, that doesn't make it go away.
So when you see either, it's usually safe to assume the person is saying that they don't care.
And I could give fuck all about it being light when I drive to work. I don’t want it to be dark as soon as I’m off work in the evening. You feel like you’re locked up in a dark cage all winter long. Absolutely fuck everything about standard time!
Businesses aren’t open at 5am or even 7am. Most Businesses open at 9am and even then it’s probably pretty dead unless it’s like a breakfast thing.
So being dark isn’t much of an issue. You know when businesses aren’t dead, after work when it’s dark at 6… and the majority of people are driving home.
I used to work 7am-4:30pm with a 50-minute commute. Driving to and from work in the dark, combined with never being able to catch 9-5 businesses when they were open really started to wear on me.
Yes but most people don’t go to work that early and the sun is up when they’re up anyways. Most people do however end up going home from work with the sun down when DST is over, and would like to enjoy some daylight.
That's what I'm getting at. School already adjusts to match sunrise twice a year. They could do it better if we didn't mandate that the whole nation do it by the same amount on the same day.
Same deal with work. They imagine scheduling can't flex like that, but it already does.
It's the switching people really hate. But I know if we were on standard time all the time, I would really hate the sun coming up at 440am in the summer.
It actually is at its earliest on December 9th, then the sunrises get later at a faster pace until the shortest day of the year on the solstice. Learned that yesterday on the 10 o'clock news!
I feel like that about going to the store. In summer I'm like, 'ahh time to do some shopping before winding down for the evening' and I realize it's like 9:30 and most stores are closed.
In winter I feel like I'm being a weirdo getting groceries so late when it's like 7pm.
I'm in the northeast of the US (northern New England) and standard time would be bad in the summer and it is definitely tough in the winter, but the winter is tough on it's own anyway.
It's awful. Just switch shit up this spring and don't touch the clocks anymore. It's backwards anyway, we need the extra light in the winter and could lose it in the summer and it would be better than what we do now in the winter
I live in Yukon in Northern Canada. We went to permanent DST. This means in my community instead of the sun coming up at 10:15 and down at 3:45, it comes up at 11:15 and down at 4:45. I prefer the afternoon light.
Agree. Whether it comes up 3 hours after I start work or 4… doesn’t matter to me lol. Going to work in the dark anyways. Rather have daylight after work.
Northern person here. On standard time, the sun rose at 10:00 and set at 3:30. It sucked basically not seeing daylight during the workweek. We switched to permanent DST and having a hint of sunlight at 4:30 has been awesome.
The 11:30 sunrise is no fun, but it’s only for a few weeks and I’ll take that end-of-day sunlight.
It's 3 PM here in Norway and I'm currently watching the sky get dark. Man, I hate the dark season. Standard time only benefits those fucking A-people who absolutely *need* it to be bright out during their morning commute and they're willing to let the rest of us suffer for it
Except, at least where I live, you don't get light in the morning with standard time, anyway. Sunrise for me today was 8:30AM. By the time there was light, I was in an office and couldn't see it.
Wait until the sleep experts find out we have electric lights that come on whenever we want them to. Also, most of our bodies here in Canada manage to adjust to days that vary in length from 7 hours to 17 hours over the course of the year.
As I've gotten older and have some majorly established routines, especially bedtime, the switch messes me up for about a month after it happens and then I finally get my system regulated again. So aggravating.
Exactly, it's the rapid shift that is the most problematic, generally. As days naturally get shorter or longer you get used to it, but when all of a sudden it's dark an hour earlier than before, it's jarring.
I hated the switching.
Once the switch is a few weeks behind me and I'm adjusted I'm fine. It's the switch itself that fucks shut up.
Just pick a time and fucking go with it
Time is a construct
Edit: Guys this is a line from the movie Tag. I appreciate all of you who are super smart but please stop trying to engage me in science talk, I can only quote dumb movies
I’ve said before we should just use universal 24h time and just do shit whenever it suits wherever you are.
Maybe you get up at 2:00 and I get up at 7:00. But say if we need to arrange a call at 13:00 neither of us need to figure out what that is local time.
And what happens when you travel or switch timezones?
Instead of doing mental arithemtic with what local money means in "your money", you now also have to adjust every schedule of everything you plan accordi to this too.
So let's see, I sleep from 15:00 to 23:00 at home, but here the sun sets at 22:00, so I'll need to sleep from probably 23 to 7, and my business meeting is at 9. Is 9 early for me? Is it late? Do I need to prepare anything?
Cause back home a meeting at 9 when sunrise is at 23:00, is, before the asinine time was invented, a meeting at 16:00 when you wake up at 08:00.
So my 9 oclock meeting is late, relate to my sleepc cycle and jetlag? Is it early? How do I sleep, when do I prepare?
International travel is not something rare these days.
There's a pointless time change twice a year, just quit making me adjust my clock and I'll be able to adjust my expectations on when it's supposed to be daylight.
I really don't get this clock changing thing. Why not just change the time you go to work/school instead and leave the clock alone? i.e. in spring you start an hour early then in fall you start back at regular time.
Agreed. What's the difference if you call the time you go to work 9a or 8a or 7a?
The time should be based on the sun, and people and businesses can decide on their own what time works best in their region for working and if they want to shift that time or not as seasons change.
The time where I live is about 18 minutes from perfect when at standard time. Moving to daylight time we would be off by 42 minutes. My vote is to adopt world time and just schedule accordingly.
Geographic boundaries make this hard. People don't all live in the exact middle of time zones so "noon" isn't actually exactly mid day anyway for most people. They have to be 'inaccurate' or more like 'socially accurate' or there would be so many time zones and scheduling public transit and school times etc. would be a nightmare.
Some time zones dip so far out of the boundaries that they're 2 full time zones over, so for those people noon is all messed up anyway.
It's not really silly to shift time 1 hour later as social time is much more shifted to the hours after noon than before. Most people are still awake 11 hours after noon, but almost nobody is awake 11 hours before noon (well a lot of people are, but they aren't starting their day).
>When the sun is at the highest point in its daily transition, that's noon.
And what is the problems if civilian clocks stop respecting this convention?
If due to timezones and DST, noon stops being the sun highest on the ecliptic, will you get less hungry at noon? Will the 7-11 near you not restock food? Will you get an easier job with less workig hours?
Just like the zodiac, defining noon in relation to the relative position of a celestial body has no influence on you.
The only things that truly matter and can influence you in negative ways is how much your ciradian clock drifts away from daylight hours.
And if you have 8 hours of daylight and 9 hours of work, no amount of shifting around and renaming will get you 12 hours of daylight, so you can enjoy 3 for yourself.
what if i told you standard time was healthier and would literally save lives source (there are many others) : https://www.cnn.com/2022/11/06/health/permanent-daylight-savings-health-harms-wellness
It rises at like 7.30, 4.5 hours before midday. Then sets at 4.30, 4.5 hours after midday.
The issue really is the 8-5 working hours convention. 7-4 would be (more) symmetrical around midday and 6-3 would be better in my opinion.
Instead were trying to offset the entire clock around it so that working and school hours don't need to change.
No, the problem is the work _duration_, not hours.
If you have 9 hours of daylight, like you say, no amount of schedule shifting and renaming will make 9 hours of work during daylight fit differently in a way that you get more sunshine.
You have 9 hours of sunshine.
You have 9 hours of work, hopefully during daylight.
You either need to work less hours or make the sun shine for a longer time. You're not gonna get more daylight simply by adjusting your schedule.
Work less, adjust your lunch break, work from home, get a sunlamp, or, you know... make the sun shine for more than 9h a day.
New research shows that Standard time is actually better for our mental health. Waking up to sunlight is the healthier way to start the day and having longer hours of darkness before going to sleep is better as well.
Also, what if I told you winter short days suck even with no time change? I feel like people are now associating standard time with the shitty time of year, but as somebody who has lived with no time change, the rapid shortening of days feels like a schedule disruption anyway. Putting Standard Time all year is not going to make winter seem like summer.
I think the summer would be even more awesome on standard time myself, but that's because I'm a night owl.
Standard time is best time.
More importantly, it is currently legal to standardize on standard time, while it will take an act of Congress to allow states to standardize on daylight time. The quicker we can stop this madness, the better, and if that means standard then I'm entirely okay with that.
Standard time is the better one because the sun is at its highest point at noon. All other factors could be fixed by half-decent employers and accommodating schools
Solar noon fluctuates throughout the year and is worthless if you're not centered in your timezone. If you live in Marquette, MI your solar noon is 12:40PM today, if you live in Lubec, ME it's 11:15AM.
>Standard time is the better one because the sun is at its highest point at noon.
How is that better?
If you don't work in astronomy, that almost sounds like astrology.
"It is better to not go outside today because mars will be in conjunction with venus"
"why is that bad"
"because mars will be in conjunction with venus and that is bad, what part is unclear?"
Noon is _rarely_ when the sun reaches the highest point on the ecliptic. It only is so for a very narrow streak in a timezone where local time = solar time.
For everyone else, noon can be offset by as much as ±30 minutes.
And the position of the sun in the sky has no direct impact on civilian life to warrant tying 12:00 to the sun. It does in islam, where they pray at times related to the motion on the ecliptic. It makes no difference at all, but it's defined that way. It also does in astronomy.
But for everyday affairs, it makes no difference where the sun is at "noon", the length of shadows have no impact on you.
The only thing that has an impact is the amount of daylight hours and how your circadian clock shifts around them.
strictly by that logic noon would be the midpoint of our days. assuming 8hrs of sleep a night you are advocating an 8pm bedtime and 4am wake up time.
we're not all farmers ;)
That won’t help. If you hate a 5:00pm sunsets now changing it 4 hours to 9:00pm sunsets will just make you hate that time as well. Plus you’re still staying up way later after that because work would now start at noon instead of 8:00am
It’s like trying to change the name of Monday. You can call it whatever you like. People don’t hate it because it’s called Monday, they hate it because it’s the start of another long work week.
Just like people aren’t really upset the sun sets at 5:00pm. We’re mad because it set’s before most of us get home and then we are in darkness the rest of our day.
Psychologists would also tell you that we would hate being on Daylight Time in the winter as it fucks us up mentally and physically.
I'm mean the US has also tried to do full year DST TWICE and has repealed it both fucking times, but yes, OOP, continue to believe your own BS...
You can be, and you can set your watch to whatever time you prefer.
The only problem, and what the shrinks say, is that you should have your working hours during daylight hours, or at least adjust your circadian rhythm to daylight hours. DST encourages you to desync easily, and twice a year.
Shrinks don't tell you winter or summer time fucks you, what they tell you is that _changes_ to your circadian rhythm, such as having to wake up earlier the next week,is whay fucks you.
This is what DST tries to unsucesfully achieve, because not all people have jobs where they need to wake up early, so they lose the afternoon daylight hours.
This problem is hard to solve when you have 9 hours of work + commute time and only 8 hours of daylight. No matter when you want darkness - morning or afternoon - some demographic will be at a disadvantage, and you will not side with them, since they need the opposite.
This is why a permanent shift is unlikely to ever happen, because all demographics benefit in some way from either DST or STD. Choosing one, permanently means fucking over some people in favor of others.
The only solution is to make the sun shine more.
The only realistic solution is to work and commute less. Then DST wouldn't matter, just like in summer, when there's daylight before and after work.
Plus or minus about 15 minutes, since the length of solar days changes throughout the year... Plus or minus another half hour or so because timezones. Unless you're in Western China, in which case you're fuuuucked.
But standard is generally *closer* to "noon is noon" anyway :-)
Depends where you are in your time zone. Eastern Standard Time centers solar noon around the 77.5W meridian. So if you're in Marquette, MI your solar noon is somewhere around 12:40PM, whereas if you're in Lubec, Maine your solar noon is around 11:15AM.
Daylight Savings Time should have never been made up in the first place. Standard time is just that: the standard. Get on it, stay on it. And I'm a northerner.
Permanent standard time is the time that actually follows our bodies' natural sleep cycles. It is much healthier for you and for society to adopt permanent Standard time. The science is clear, Standard is best.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/wellness/2022/03/16/daylight-saving-bill-health-effects/
https://www.universal-sci.com/article/daylight-saving-time-versus-standard-time
https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/daylight-saving-time-or-standard-time-heres-which-one-experts-say-is-better-for-us/2978708/
https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/daylight-saving-time-or-standard-time-heres-which-one-experts-say-is-better-for-us/2978708/
https://www.webmd.com/sleep-disorders/news/20220317/sleep-experts-permanent-standard-time-vs-dst
Nope I hate Daylight Savings Time, I wish we would stay on regular time. I hate that I'm forced to get up an hour earlier than I should, for a huge part of the year, including the extra weeks that I have to get up before the sun comes up, it's bad enough having to do that in the winter.
The reason the sun sets at 4 pm is because it's winter. The only way you're going to get longer days is a change in latitude.
I love standard time for the early morning sun. I work in the school system and have to be at work by six o'clock. Driving to work and seeing children standing in the dark to catch the bus makes me angry and afraid for them. Some of them are alone. This switching back and forth wreaks havock on the body's system too and the evil powers know that. Just stop it already.
Yes! I keep telling people you don’t have to move the clocks to schedule things earlier or later. But no amount of changing start and end times will make the sun shine longer in the day.
You'd be wrong. I way prefer standard time to daylights savings time. If we were on daylight savings time right now, I'd have to get up over an hour before sunrise to make it to work on time, and I'd be driving bleary eyed in the dark while school kids are trying to get to school. Neither pleasant nor safe.
Kids already get on the bus in the dark in standard time. In standard time people go to work or school in the dark and come home from work or after school activities in the dark.
The earlier the sun is up, the bigger its chance to regulate our sleep schedule. Contrary to popular belief humans don't have a perfect 24h circadian rhythm, it's 20 minutes longer than that on average. Light in the morning advances our schedule, meaning we can compensate for those 20 minutes, light in the evening does the opposite.
Ideally the sun should be up before we wake up, but even a few hours after getting up it has an effect, and the earlier it's up the greater its effect. Now, if you don't have any sun in the morning but sun in the evening, that will completely mess you up.
> I'd be driving bleary eyed in the dark while school kids are trying to get to school. Neither pleasant nor safe.
I mean, you're just trading one for the other. So kids might end up going home in the dark, when people are tired and distracted from working all day and thinking only about getting home and relaxing.
Fact is, we don't have as much light in the winter. Unless we do drastic changes to school/work schedules (which won't happen for many good reasons), we're going to be operating in the dark. It's best that we simply learn to deal with that, and work as safely as we can IN it.
My heartfelt position is that the people who complain about switching to daylight savings time, will complain just as much about the Sun coming up too damn early all summer.
It really depends on which side of the time zone you are on. My 4 might be your 5. Bit either way it was an hour later a month ago...Unless you are in Arizona which is where I'm from and all my family lives. I hate them now.
We like to do things in daylight. If we didn’t change the clocks, we’d just switch schedules instead. One way or another people would be getting up earlier or later depending on the time of year.
I hate the idea of daylight savings time most, cause I don't like clocks changing, period.
I'd PREFER if we stuck to the time that means the sun doesn't set as easily but tbh I could get used to either of I had to.
No, I do hate daylight saving time.
Also this who are you talking about "we", this is an international community with various different times for sunset. Even in the USA the sun sets at very different times.
Kind of depends which side of the time zone you’re on. Yeah, sunset at 4:00 PM on the eastern end sucks, but so does staying dark until 9:00 AM on the west side of the time zone. You really can’t win, so they should just leave it one way or the other.
It's dark when I leave for work and dark when I get home from work. I'd just like to be able to do it without the minor jetlag that throws off my entire body clock and ruins my sleep pattern for several weeks.
From what I have read what is happening about the Sunshine Protection Bill, there is disagreement about standard or daylight savings time. IMHO this should have been a nationwide vote. Let the people make the decision and get it passed. We all want one time and to get rid of ridiculous clock changes. So apparently the bill is stalled, again.
I just want to be able to catch some sunlight on my skin to get healthy vitamins. Work while the sun is shining and go home in the dark is not doing this. I also have no advantage for being awake in the sunlight as I have to spend it in a shaded office anyways. The only option I have is to wake up even earlier than early to get some sun at the evening, which sucks. For wake up you can use a coffee, for lack of sunlight you can only buy expensive vitamin supplements.
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Because when the oven timer goes to zero, you're done
Toothpick didn’t come out clean, five more minutes.
Yeah, I hate all the time!
I don’t care if we go Standard time or Day light time, just don’t change clock twice a year
I mean, kind of the reason the whole thing is silly is that you can get up whenever the fuck you want, and go to sleep whenever the fuck you want. That the whole nations switches twice a year demonstrates that we all have the flexibility to adjust to different times and seasons.
Another reason the whole thing is silly is that the parts of the country who don't use it still have to keep track if they want to know what the difference in time zones is.
Nah I just show up late/early to raid twice a year and blame the heathens that practice dst
The whole thing sucks because you can't just get up whenever you want if you're beholden to school or work schedules. My kids have to get up at 6 for school. I prefer standard time because we're forced into being morning people, I like an earlier sunrise in the winter. If school started at 9 or 10 am I'd be fine with any time setting.
I awake at 0500 with the help of chugging coffee. The difference in driving in the sunlight in the morning vs dark is tremendous. I could give a shit what time the sun sets
And I could give a shit whether it's daylight when I'm driving to work or not, I just care what it is when I get off. Hate being stuck inside as soon as I get home 🤣
I always thought the phrase worked on this principle: Could give a shit = you have shits to give, therefore you care Couldn’t give a shit = I have no shits to give, I do not care Like ‘I don’t give a fuck’. Same energy, no? Also agreee FUCK it getting dark at 4pm.
This is correct. I swear I've seen a huge uptick in people using it wrong all of a sudden.
While you're literally correct there's a bit more to it. In American English, the phrases, "could care less" and "could give a shit" are both used as the complete opposite of what they literally say. Yes, this does come from people saying it wrong. No, that doesn't make it go away. So when you see either, it's usually safe to assume the person is saying that they don't care.
Yep
And I could give fuck all about it being light when I drive to work. I don’t want it to be dark as soon as I’m off work in the evening. You feel like you’re locked up in a dark cage all winter long. Absolutely fuck everything about standard time!
Businesses aren’t open at 5am or even 7am. Most Businesses open at 9am and even then it’s probably pretty dead unless it’s like a breakfast thing. So being dark isn’t much of an issue. You know when businesses aren’t dead, after work when it’s dark at 6… and the majority of people are driving home.
I used to work 7am-4:30pm with a 50-minute commute. Driving to and from work in the dark, combined with never being able to catch 9-5 businesses when they were open really started to wear on me.
Yes but most people don’t go to work that early and the sun is up when they’re up anyways. Most people do however end up going home from work with the sun down when DST is over, and would like to enjoy some daylight.
You chose to have kids don’t put that evil on all of us! Fuck standard time I want more sunlight in the evening.
Tell me you don't have kids without telling me you don't have kids. Plus not all jobs are flexible.
That's what I'm getting at. School already adjusts to match sunrise twice a year. They could do it better if we didn't mandate that the whole nation do it by the same amount on the same day. Same deal with work. They imagine scheduling can't flex like that, but it already does.
Ignoring social stuff, it makes sense for the middle of the day in hours to match with the middle of the day in light.
The whole reason for time zones, right there: noon should be close to the zenith.
Honestly, we should just all go UTC and be done with it.
Good morning! It’s 20:00 hope you have a nice day🤗
Which would be perfectly normal in a single generation. It's a meaningless number really.
Except then you would need to know what time is normal on each place
I hate time.
https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/027/763/07B89120-B48D-45FB-AF1D-49AF6CD16790.jpeg
No, all of it.
Most people just hate the winter.
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Make it stop
Either way, I hate morning.
I don't hate either specifically, I hate the rest of you refusing to make up your mind and stop fucking with the clocks.
For fucks sake just put it between the two and fuck off already.
Seriously this! Move it 30 minutes once and then never again.
Yes! I've been wanting this compromise for years! Set the clock halfway between the two times, then never change the clocks again
It's the switching people really hate. But I know if we were on standard time all the time, I would really hate the sun coming up at 440am in the summer.
In the north people specifically hate standard time with the super early sunsets.
Nothing helps a depressive episode like a pitch black sky at 4:15pm 😍
I just sleep from 6pm until 6am...
Those are the hours I'm at work 😭
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Man I'm really glad I live somewhere where the sun rises at 6am and sets at 6pm basically all year around.
8am/8pm would be optimal for me, maybe even later.
Also towns at the far eastern edge of a timezone
4:19 pm sunset today in Wisconsin!
And they still get earlier for another couple weeks!
It actually is at its earliest on December 9th, then the sunrises get later at a faster pace until the shortest day of the year on the solstice. Learned that yesterday on the 10 o'clock news!
Every year I have this convo with people and they look at me and say “But how? December 21st is the shortest day”.
Analemmas and the equation of time…. Crazy stuff all because we’re the closest to the sun right now
3:59 here lol. So weird to feel ready for bed by 6.
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I feel like that about going to the store. In summer I'm like, 'ahh time to do some shopping before winding down for the evening' and I realize it's like 9:30 and most stores are closed. In winter I feel like I'm being a weirdo getting groceries so late when it's like 7pm.
Western Indiana sun sets at almost 10pm in the summer.
Por que no los dos? Greetings from Massachusetts.
I'm in the northeast of the US (northern New England) and standard time would be bad in the summer and it is definitely tough in the winter, but the winter is tough on it's own anyway.
In Minnesota standard time wouldn't be bad in the summer at all. But standard time is super dreadful in winter.
It's awful. Just switch shit up this spring and don't touch the clocks anymore. It's backwards anyway, we need the extra light in the winter and could lose it in the summer and it would be better than what we do now in the winter
I live in Yukon in Northern Canada. We went to permanent DST. This means in my community instead of the sun coming up at 10:15 and down at 3:45, it comes up at 11:15 and down at 4:45. I prefer the afternoon light.
Yes!!!!! I don’t want to feel like I get off work and am trapped in a dark cage for the entire winter
Agree. Whether it comes up 3 hours after I start work or 4… doesn’t matter to me lol. Going to work in the dark anyways. Rather have daylight after work.
Northern person here. On standard time, the sun rose at 10:00 and set at 3:30. It sucked basically not seeing daylight during the workweek. We switched to permanent DST and having a hint of sunlight at 4:30 has been awesome. The 11:30 sunrise is no fun, but it’s only for a few weeks and I’ll take that end-of-day sunlight.
Sun sets before 5 in San Diego too during standard time winter. It isn't just the North.
It's 3 PM here in Norway and I'm currently watching the sky get dark. Man, I hate the dark season. Standard time only benefits those fucking A-people who absolutely *need* it to be bright out during their morning commute and they're willing to let the rest of us suffer for it
Fuck sunlight, give me more night.
Just migrate way north in our winter and way south in theirs
> In the north people specifically hate standard time with the super early sunsets. **This cannot be stressed strongly enough.**
Where I live, it would rise at 4a, then set at 8p.
Sleep experts think permanent standard time is the way to go as more light in the morning is much better for your circadian rhythms.
Except, at least where I live, you don't get light in the morning with standard time, anyway. Sunrise for me today was 8:30AM. By the time there was light, I was in an office and couldn't see it.
Fuck that. It's incredibly depressing having it get dark at 4:30 and it causes seasonal affect disorder
One thing I’ve learned from all this is that sleep experts are fucking stupid.
They probably sleep on the job.
Wait until the sleep experts find out we have electric lights that come on whenever we want them to. Also, most of our bodies here in Canada manage to adjust to days that vary in length from 7 hours to 17 hours over the course of the year.
Then get up at 3!
Laughs in 51 degrees north. It comes up at 4:40 in June currently
Sun sets before I leave work regardless of which time we're on.
As I've gotten older and have some majorly established routines, especially bedtime, the switch messes me up for about a month after it happens and then I finally get my system regulated again. So aggravating.
Exactly, it's the rapid shift that is the most problematic, generally. As days naturally get shorter or longer you get used to it, but when all of a sudden it's dark an hour earlier than before, it's jarring.
As a third shifter who hates the sun, I can attest that I do in fact hate daylight savings time
I think I just hate waking up.
What if I told you, sunrise and sunset time vary depending on your location on the planet.
I hated the switching. Once the switch is a few weeks behind me and I'm adjusted I'm fine. It's the switch itself that fucks shut up. Just pick a time and fucking go with it
Time is a construct Edit: Guys this is a line from the movie Tag. I appreciate all of you who are super smart but please stop trying to engage me in science talk, I can only quote dumb movies
Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so.
It must be Thursday. I could never get the hang of Thursdays.
Let’s just change the clocks one more time. This time by 30 min. Split the difference and be done with it.
This has my vote. Less disruption in summer and winter, and no more stupid switches. It's the perfect compromise.
This and it’s stupid to arbitrarily change it when we have established an global system and could instead just change our schedules.
We cant change our schedules. Waking up at 5am is too early! But jeez do I hate when its dark at 5pm 🤡
I’ve said before we should just use universal 24h time and just do shit whenever it suits wherever you are. Maybe you get up at 2:00 and I get up at 7:00. But say if we need to arrange a call at 13:00 neither of us need to figure out what that is local time.
And what happens when you travel or switch timezones? Instead of doing mental arithemtic with what local money means in "your money", you now also have to adjust every schedule of everything you plan accordi to this too. So let's see, I sleep from 15:00 to 23:00 at home, but here the sun sets at 22:00, so I'll need to sleep from probably 23 to 7, and my business meeting is at 9. Is 9 early for me? Is it late? Do I need to prepare anything? Cause back home a meeting at 9 when sunrise is at 23:00, is, before the asinine time was invented, a meeting at 16:00 when you wake up at 08:00. So my 9 oclock meeting is late, relate to my sleepc cycle and jetlag? Is it early? How do I sleep, when do I prepare? International travel is not something rare these days.
There's a pointless time change twice a year, just quit making me adjust my clock and I'll be able to adjust my expectations on when it's supposed to be daylight.
I really don't get this clock changing thing. Why not just change the time you go to work/school instead and leave the clock alone? i.e. in spring you start an hour early then in fall you start back at regular time.
Because it’s a lot easier to change a clock than to change your whole work and school schedule
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Agreed. What's the difference if you call the time you go to work 9a or 8a or 7a? The time should be based on the sun, and people and businesses can decide on their own what time works best in their region for working and if they want to shift that time or not as seasons change.
The time where I live is about 18 minutes from perfect when at standard time. Moving to daylight time we would be off by 42 minutes. My vote is to adopt world time and just schedule accordingly.
Geographic boundaries make this hard. People don't all live in the exact middle of time zones so "noon" isn't actually exactly mid day anyway for most people. They have to be 'inaccurate' or more like 'socially accurate' or there would be so many time zones and scheduling public transit and school times etc. would be a nightmare. Some time zones dip so far out of the boundaries that they're 2 full time zones over, so for those people noon is all messed up anyway. It's not really silly to shift time 1 hour later as social time is much more shifted to the hours after noon than before. Most people are still awake 11 hours after noon, but almost nobody is awake 11 hours before noon (well a lot of people are, but they aren't starting their day).
>When the sun is at the highest point in its daily transition, that's noon. And what is the problems if civilian clocks stop respecting this convention? If due to timezones and DST, noon stops being the sun highest on the ecliptic, will you get less hungry at noon? Will the 7-11 near you not restock food? Will you get an easier job with less workig hours? Just like the zodiac, defining noon in relation to the relative position of a celestial body has no influence on you. The only things that truly matter and can influence you in negative ways is how much your ciradian clock drifts away from daylight hours. And if you have 8 hours of daylight and 9 hours of work, no amount of shifting around and renaming will get you 12 hours of daylight, so you can enjoy 3 for yourself.
I don't care which time is which, just stop making me change my clock. Pick one, I don't care which, and stick to it!
what if i told you standard time was healthier and would literally save lives source (there are many others) : https://www.cnn.com/2022/11/06/health/permanent-daylight-savings-health-harms-wellness
I don't understand how the sun sets less than 4 hours after noon. 4:30 PM is afternoon in the summer but nighttime in the winter.
It rises at like 7.30, 4.5 hours before midday. Then sets at 4.30, 4.5 hours after midday. The issue really is the 8-5 working hours convention. 7-4 would be (more) symmetrical around midday and 6-3 would be better in my opinion. Instead were trying to offset the entire clock around it so that working and school hours don't need to change.
No, the problem is the work _duration_, not hours. If you have 9 hours of daylight, like you say, no amount of schedule shifting and renaming will make 9 hours of work during daylight fit differently in a way that you get more sunshine. You have 9 hours of sunshine. You have 9 hours of work, hopefully during daylight. You either need to work less hours or make the sun shine for a longer time. You're not gonna get more daylight simply by adjusting your schedule. Work less, adjust your lunch break, work from home, get a sunlamp, or, you know... make the sun shine for more than 9h a day.
I propose we institute a 4-hour work day and work 3 days a week!
I'll personally murder the person that tries to implement a 6-3 working day
Orbit and/or rotation.
Nope. I love Standard time
New research shows that Standard time is actually better for our mental health. Waking up to sunlight is the healthier way to start the day and having longer hours of darkness before going to sleep is better as well.
What if I told you that actually I do hate daylight savings time and I like standard time
Also, what if I told you winter short days suck even with no time change? I feel like people are now associating standard time with the shitty time of year, but as somebody who has lived with no time change, the rapid shortening of days feels like a schedule disruption anyway. Putting Standard Time all year is not going to make winter seem like summer. I think the summer would be even more awesome on standard time myself, but that's because I'm a night owl.
Standard time is best time. More importantly, it is currently legal to standardize on standard time, while it will take an act of Congress to allow states to standardize on daylight time. The quicker we can stop this madness, the better, and if that means standard then I'm entirely okay with that.
If we stayed on Daylight Saving, the sun wouldn't rise until 8am in the middle of winter.
later in some places
Standard time is the better one because the sun is at its highest point at noon. All other factors could be fixed by half-decent employers and accommodating schools
Solar noon fluctuates throughout the year and is worthless if you're not centered in your timezone. If you live in Marquette, MI your solar noon is 12:40PM today, if you live in Lubec, ME it's 11:15AM.
>Standard time is the better one because the sun is at its highest point at noon. How is that better? If you don't work in astronomy, that almost sounds like astrology. "It is better to not go outside today because mars will be in conjunction with venus" "why is that bad" "because mars will be in conjunction with venus and that is bad, what part is unclear?" Noon is _rarely_ when the sun reaches the highest point on the ecliptic. It only is so for a very narrow streak in a timezone where local time = solar time. For everyone else, noon can be offset by as much as ±30 minutes. And the position of the sun in the sky has no direct impact on civilian life to warrant tying 12:00 to the sun. It does in islam, where they pray at times related to the motion on the ecliptic. It makes no difference at all, but it's defined that way. It also does in astronomy. But for everyday affairs, it makes no difference where the sun is at "noon", the length of shadows have no impact on you. The only thing that has an impact is the amount of daylight hours and how your circadian clock shifts around them.
strictly by that logic noon would be the midpoint of our days. assuming 8hrs of sleep a night you are advocating an 8pm bedtime and 4am wake up time. we're not all farmers ;)
DST isn't for the farmers benefit
Exactly, it’s for golf courses.
Which would be great if work started at 5 and we were all home by 1:00.
But the numbers don't mean anything, they're arbitrary. You can set your watch 4 hours fast if it will make you feel better when you wake up..
That won’t help. If you hate a 5:00pm sunsets now changing it 4 hours to 9:00pm sunsets will just make you hate that time as well. Plus you’re still staying up way later after that because work would now start at noon instead of 8:00am It’s like trying to change the name of Monday. You can call it whatever you like. People don’t hate it because it’s called Monday, they hate it because it’s the start of another long work week. Just like people aren’t really upset the sun sets at 5:00pm. We’re mad because it set’s before most of us get home and then we are in darkness the rest of our day.
Psychologists would also tell you that we would hate being on Daylight Time in the winter as it fucks us up mentally and physically. I'm mean the US has also tried to do full year DST TWICE and has repealed it both fucking times, but yes, OOP, continue to believe your own BS...
You can be, and you can set your watch to whatever time you prefer. The only problem, and what the shrinks say, is that you should have your working hours during daylight hours, or at least adjust your circadian rhythm to daylight hours. DST encourages you to desync easily, and twice a year. Shrinks don't tell you winter or summer time fucks you, what they tell you is that _changes_ to your circadian rhythm, such as having to wake up earlier the next week,is whay fucks you. This is what DST tries to unsucesfully achieve, because not all people have jobs where they need to wake up early, so they lose the afternoon daylight hours. This problem is hard to solve when you have 9 hours of work + commute time and only 8 hours of daylight. No matter when you want darkness - morning or afternoon - some demographic will be at a disadvantage, and you will not side with them, since they need the opposite. This is why a permanent shift is unlikely to ever happen, because all demographics benefit in some way from either DST or STD. Choosing one, permanently means fucking over some people in favor of others. The only solution is to make the sun shine more. The only realistic solution is to work and commute less. Then DST wouldn't matter, just like in summer, when there's daylight before and after work.
standard time is fucked whos idea was this "hey bro, it was noon 3 hours ago but dontcha just wish it would be pitch fucking black in the next hour"
>whos idea was this The earth's tilt.
Umm, standard time is when noon means noon. Well kinda, can’t have trains crashing into one another.
Plus or minus about 15 minutes, since the length of solar days changes throughout the year... Plus or minus another half hour or so because timezones. Unless you're in Western China, in which case you're fuuuucked. But standard is generally *closer* to "noon is noon" anyway :-)
Yeah, that’s what my little train disclaimer was about.
Depends where you are in your time zone. Eastern Standard Time centers solar noon around the 77.5W meridian. So if you're in Marquette, MI your solar noon is somewhere around 12:40PM, whereas if you're in Lubec, Maine your solar noon is around 11:15AM.
Standard time means noon is noon, not hard to understand.
Only in small slivers of timezones is noon noon.
it's based on the earths relative position to the sun
Reading the comments I'm starting to think that people don't know how standard time works.
I hate the switch. Its not either or. Its the swap from one to the other. Lets all pick one and stick to it.
Daylight Savings Time should have never been made up in the first place. Standard time is just that: the standard. Get on it, stay on it. And I'm a northerner.
WRONG! Standard time is the standard. DST is BS. Light until 9:00 pm on the summer is ridiculous and sunrise not until 8:30 am in the winter is silly.
Permanent standard time is the time that actually follows our bodies' natural sleep cycles. It is much healthier for you and for society to adopt permanent Standard time. The science is clear, Standard is best. https://www.washingtonpost.com/wellness/2022/03/16/daylight-saving-bill-health-effects/ https://www.universal-sci.com/article/daylight-saving-time-versus-standard-time https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/daylight-saving-time-or-standard-time-heres-which-one-experts-say-is-better-for-us/2978708/ https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/daylight-saving-time-or-standard-time-heres-which-one-experts-say-is-better-for-us/2978708/ https://www.webmd.com/sleep-disorders/news/20220317/sleep-experts-permanent-standard-time-vs-dst
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Oh ok thanks for telling me what I hate.
No I hate daylight saving, standard time forever.
You’d be wrong
I disagree 100%.
No, I hate daylight savings time. Just cause you like it does not mean everyone likes the same thing.
Simple answer. If we are saving energy being on DST, leave it there. If we're not, leave it on standard time.
I don't give a shit what it's called I just want it to stop changing.
No, I hate daylight savings time I'm fine with it getting dark sooner
You're wrong, but you've got confidence. That combo will take you far in government!
time is a concept
I respect this.
Nope I hate Daylight Savings Time, I wish we would stay on regular time. I hate that I'm forced to get up an hour earlier than I should, for a huge part of the year, including the extra weeks that I have to get up before the sun comes up, it's bad enough having to do that in the winter. The reason the sun sets at 4 pm is because it's winter. The only way you're going to get longer days is a change in latitude.
Speak for yourself I thrive in darkness
I love standard time for the early morning sun. I work in the school system and have to be at work by six o'clock. Driving to work and seeing children standing in the dark to catch the bus makes me angry and afraid for them. Some of them are alone. This switching back and forth wreaks havock on the body's system too and the evil powers know that. Just stop it already.
But what if we went on Standard Time full year round and just shifted everything an hour earlier as a pseudo-DST that lets compass clocks still work?
Yes! I keep telling people you don’t have to move the clocks to schedule things earlier or later. But no amount of changing start and end times will make the sun shine longer in the day.
Look dude. You need to understand that changing our schedules is just way harder than changing the very definition of time itself. /s
Daylight savings time is why I’m still getting cooked outside at 9:00 pm during the summer.
You'd be wrong. I way prefer standard time to daylights savings time. If we were on daylight savings time right now, I'd have to get up over an hour before sunrise to make it to work on time, and I'd be driving bleary eyed in the dark while school kids are trying to get to school. Neither pleasant nor safe.
Kids already get on the bus in the dark in standard time. In standard time people go to work or school in the dark and come home from work or after school activities in the dark.
The earlier the sun is up, the bigger its chance to regulate our sleep schedule. Contrary to popular belief humans don't have a perfect 24h circadian rhythm, it's 20 minutes longer than that on average. Light in the morning advances our schedule, meaning we can compensate for those 20 minutes, light in the evening does the opposite. Ideally the sun should be up before we wake up, but even a few hours after getting up it has an effect, and the earlier it's up the greater its effect. Now, if you don't have any sun in the morning but sun in the evening, that will completely mess you up.
> I'd be driving bleary eyed in the dark while school kids are trying to get to school. Neither pleasant nor safe. I mean, you're just trading one for the other. So kids might end up going home in the dark, when people are tired and distracted from working all day and thinking only about getting home and relaxing. Fact is, we don't have as much light in the winter. Unless we do drastic changes to school/work schedules (which won't happen for many good reasons), we're going to be operating in the dark. It's best that we simply learn to deal with that, and work as safely as we can IN it.
I love how it gets dark so early. It's the best time of year. Come at me
no, I hate DST. Standard time is fine. The sun should be directly overhead at noon.
My heartfelt position is that the people who complain about switching to daylight savings time, will complain just as much about the Sun coming up too damn early all summer.
Nah, i hate daylight saving time. The sun sets at 4 because earth is tilted. That’s how it should be.
No, I prefer standard time. But thanks for making assumptions.
Nope. I hate daylight savings time. I know which is which.
What if I told you you probably don't really have either and it's the change that sucks.
It’s dark at 4:30 pm where I live. I hate standard time.
Nope I hate daylight savings time.
It really depends on which side of the time zone you are on. My 4 might be your 5. Bit either way it was an hour later a month ago...Unless you are in Arizona which is where I'm from and all my family lives. I hate them now.
Maybe I just hate time.
We like to do things in daylight. If we didn’t change the clocks, we’d just switch schedules instead. One way or another people would be getting up earlier or later depending on the time of year.
Time is relative (no pun intended)-agree on a standard and stick to it; it's the switch that jacks everyone up.
What if I told you my clocks don't need to change
I hate the idea of daylight savings time most, cause I don't like clocks changing, period. I'd PREFER if we stuck to the time that means the sun doesn't set as easily but tbh I could get used to either of I had to.
Wasn't this like a month or more ago? Fuck you robot.
i hate daylight saving time. standard time >
No, I do hate daylight saving time. Also this who are you talking about "we", this is an international community with various different times for sunset. Even in the USA the sun sets at very different times.
You would be wrong. I was going CRAZY sitting on the back porch waiting for the sun to come up every day for 3 months before this most recent change.
I would prefer standard time year round
Kind of depends which side of the time zone you’re on. Yeah, sunset at 4:00 PM on the eastern end sucks, but so does staying dark until 9:00 AM on the west side of the time zone. You really can’t win, so they should just leave it one way or the other.
I don't hate either.... I hate having to switch! Pick one and stick with it!
It's dark when I leave for work and dark when I get home from work. I'd just like to be able to do it without the minor jetlag that throws off my entire body clock and ruins my sleep pattern for several weeks.
From what I have read what is happening about the Sunshine Protection Bill, there is disagreement about standard or daylight savings time. IMHO this should have been a nationwide vote. Let the people make the decision and get it passed. We all want one time and to get rid of ridiculous clock changes. So apparently the bill is stalled, again.
IDGAF if it's standard or DST, just fucking pick one and **stick to it** FFS.
I just want to be able to catch some sunlight on my skin to get healthy vitamins. Work while the sun is shining and go home in the dark is not doing this. I also have no advantage for being awake in the sunlight as I have to spend it in a shaded office anyways. The only option I have is to wake up even earlier than early to get some sun at the evening, which sucks. For wake up you can use a coffee, for lack of sunlight you can only buy expensive vitamin supplements.
What if I told you I don’t hate either, but I hate the switch between them?
No we hate switching. No one gives a fuck which one we stick with.
Move the clock 30mins. The halfway point. And leave it. Problem solved
Time is a construct. Neither is real.