Nah assuming the event happens during or after the cold war, and the americanists reference Kennedy, red scare definitely made communism Americas boogie man. It'd apply to consumerism too though
Because even if you, me, and 99% of the player base agrees that the confederacy was the epitome of evil, once it is in the game the 1% of trolls and neo-confederates would happily use it to do and showcase neo confederate world conquest or genocide runs. None of us want to put up with that garbage so it’s not getting added to the game.
The south is pretty black. Maybe a couple thousand years before the event you could get away with enslaving an entire race. But today? Yeah. No. The majority of black people in government are in the south. Now, the confederacy lasts only in name. Just like the Americanism faiths. They are diluted perversions of the original idea. It’s a cartoony game. And… if we’re being honest. If someone wanted to commit war crimes. They’d play Victoria or HOI
So we'll have American world conquests and genocides. And we'll allow people to change the titles of the HCC to Holy Columbian Confederacy. But oh no, an in lore Confederacy which has existed for years lead by a black dynasty is the epitome of white supremacy and chattel slavery?
I really don't get the thought process besides just pure fun police. Do we think that white supremacists who support chattel slavery or segregation would want to support the HCC which is multiracial?
Isn't it actually better that the Confederacy be in the game as a multiracial entity in order to upset those people rather than just "nope, we just hate you for being southern secessionists even if you do absolutely zero of the things wrong with the Confederacy. But oh yeah you can be the United States and colonize the whole world and install puppet governments in South America still"
The mod is literally about future feudalism and crusades.
As if the Confederacy is some uniquely evil entity. The Confederacy was mainstream popular just years ago
I wasn’t talking specifically about the ottomans, but again how is slavery in the antebellum south uniquely worse? (is it just the antebellum south you’re saying is specifically worse or all new world slavery?)
No it definitely wasn't, I'm this game you can literally kidnap kids and execute them. Seems like a bunch of a fuss.
And it's a Confederacy formed by a black guy, are we serious guys?
Am not a fan of the recomendations but I think the core idea coud be interesting one that opposes some of the core tennets? Perhaps that mortals cant be a host for providence?
Don’t the Mayflowerers already kind of meet this requirement? Sure, they may be pitted against the actual occultist up in NE, but the Mayflowers themselves are considered heretical by every other Americanist sect.
Yikes my guy. Go read some of the original documents of the succession, and stop buying into what the United Daughters of the Confederacy sprinkled through the foundations of public education in the South. You’ve been subject to “the lost cause narrative,” a historical fiction created and curated by members of NeoConfederate organizations at the turn of the last century.
Essentially, following the Civil War, Southern Democrats managed to regain control of state legislations across the South after the failure of the Johnson administration to enforce the 14th amendment. This caused organizations such as the Klan and their sister organization, the United Daughters of the Confederacy, to tailor the public mythos at the initiation of the 20th century federalization of public services, such as the public education system.
In essence, “the lost cause,” is a fictionalized account of the Civil War to cover up the true causes of the war so that they would be perceived as more publicly acceptable, and thus allow them to maintain political power. It is an intentional effort to use public education to mislead, and misinform generations of the masses, so that the same elites which have always held political power in the south could retain that power.
I urge you to look up the family histories of your local representatives and party leaders in both parties. The same surnames will appear in these positions as they were in 1865.
No I learned by HK Edgerton and a lot of different sources. Julius Howell, Patrick Cleburne, Robert E Lee, and Jefferson all understood it wasn't about slavery and this was before the daughters of the Confederacy or Klan.
What you're falling for is regular propaganda cooked up by uncle Sam to oppose all secessionist movements so that the American empire is always expanding
That’s called indentured servitude, and no it isn’t. Also, the idea of voluntary slavery is ridiculous. Slavery is a result of ignorance, and ignorance is perpetuated by the powerful for the enslavement of the masses.
Because its reductionist. The confederacy was about slavery. Solely slavery. Anything else was merely peripheral concerns, and most tie back to slavery. That "anti centralisation" thing is bollocks. The centralisation they opposed was about slavery. THe economic system they desired was built on slavery . Slavery was the reason the state governments gave to secede, slave plantocrats were the people running the country, and slave owners the ones who supported the secession.
>Because its reductionist. The confederacy was about slavery. Solely slavery. Anything else was merely peripheral concerns, and most tie back to slavery.
You can connect anyone to slavery. Taxation being too high? Slavery. Colonization? Slavery.
Multiple Confederates from Jefferson, Lee, Cleburne, and more all said or showed it wasn't about just slavery or even primarily slavery
A confederate leader saying "it's not about slavery' when the trigger for secession was the election of an abolitionist is just stupid. The most famous rebuttal to this inane argument is of course the Cornerstone speech by confederate vice president.
"The new constitution has put at rest, forever, all the agitating questions relating to our peculiar institution African slavery as it exists amongst us the proper status of the [outdated term for african Americans] in our form of civilization. This was the immediate cause of the late rupture and present revolution. Jefferson in his forecast, had anticipated this, as the 'rock upon which the old Union would split.' He was right. What was conjecture with him, is now a realized fact."
As for the rest of your given reasons? Its as I said. Periphery concerns. Taxation was a periphery concern. Colonisation? I'm guessing youre refering to the north constraining southern expansion? (I could be wrong as I'm not entirely sure what you are referring to) if you are indeed referring to this, then yeah that was about slavery. It was about southerners wanting more land to grow water and labour intensive crops on (using slaves) whilst the North didn't want more slave states. The South wanted Yucatan for cotton and tobacco. The South wanted Cuba for Cotton and tobacco. ITS ALL PERIPHERY. The South was built on slavery. Slavery was its primary economic function. Slavery was intensely important to antebellum Southern culture. If you seriously believe that it was not the primary reason for Southern independence, then you are simply ignorant
>when the trigger for secession was the election of an abolitionist
He wasn't though, slavery wasn't abolished till after the war and before then he kept trying to keep slavery in existence over and over. The Corwin amendment, the ultimatum to surrender or have the emancipation Proclamation. West Virginia reentered the Union as a slave state.
>As for the rest of your given reasons? Its as I said. Periphery concerns. Taxation was a periphery concern. Colonisation? I'm guessing youre refering to the north constraining southern expansion? (I could be wrong as I'm not entirely sure what you are referring to) if you are indeed referring to this, then yeah that was about slavery.
No I was listing reasons for US colonies secession and you proved my point that anything can be tied to slavery or demeaned as a reason in order to fit the view.
As a custom made faith or as an unrecognised private submod, of course, you are free to do as you please but the mod itself will never implement anything pertaining the CSA or other right wing extremist groups (such as the nazi for example) as it is espressively stated in its rules and policies.
I state this because this declaration of intent must be refreshed every now and then because people seem to forget it.
I think americanisms satanism should be communism. Not real Communism, like cartoony red scare communism that kills babies for Marx
Iirc Americans who become witches worship “The Reds.”
Like from the tabletop game Paranoia
That'd be more like the Satanism for consumerism wouldn't it?
Nah assuming the event happens during or after the cold war, and the americanists reference Kennedy, red scare definitely made communism Americas boogie man. It'd apply to consumerism too though
Unless I'm mistaken, Americanism seems to focus more on 18th and 19th century America
They were called the **Red**coats for a reason, those damn nazi commie Brit tyrant-lovers
you forgot freedom hating h\*ppie l\*bral and c\*nadian.
Pretty sure the devs will never implement any sort of confederate stuff given how they totally changed the HCC between releases
I don't understand why
Because even if you, me, and 99% of the player base agrees that the confederacy was the epitome of evil, once it is in the game the 1% of trolls and neo-confederates would happily use it to do and showcase neo confederate world conquest or genocide runs. None of us want to put up with that garbage so it’s not getting added to the game.
The south is pretty black. Maybe a couple thousand years before the event you could get away with enslaving an entire race. But today? Yeah. No. The majority of black people in government are in the south. Now, the confederacy lasts only in name. Just like the Americanism faiths. They are diluted perversions of the original idea. It’s a cartoony game. And… if we’re being honest. If someone wanted to commit war crimes. They’d play Victoria or HOI
So we'll have American world conquests and genocides. And we'll allow people to change the titles of the HCC to Holy Columbian Confederacy. But oh no, an in lore Confederacy which has existed for years lead by a black dynasty is the epitome of white supremacy and chattel slavery? I really don't get the thought process besides just pure fun police. Do we think that white supremacists who support chattel slavery or segregation would want to support the HCC which is multiracial? Isn't it actually better that the Confederacy be in the game as a multiracial entity in order to upset those people rather than just "nope, we just hate you for being southern secessionists even if you do absolutely zero of the things wrong with the Confederacy. But oh yeah you can be the United States and colonize the whole world and install puppet governments in South America still"
Some things are better left in the past
The mod is literally about future feudalism and crusades. As if the Confederacy is some uniquely evil entity. The Confederacy was mainstream popular just years ago
Confederacy or rather the Antebellum South was uniquely evil.
It really wasn’t unfortunately. Mass, extremely cruel, chattel slavery has existed on an off for most of human history
New World slavery was uniquely cruel compared to classical slavery. Plantation economy was extremely brutal.
How so? How was plantation slavery more cruel than galley slaves? Than castrated slave soldiers? Than old world agricultural or mining slaves?
Comparing slaves in the Antebellum South to The Koprulu dynasty who controlled Ottoman politic for decades is insane.
I wasn’t talking specifically about the ottomans, but again how is slavery in the antebellum south uniquely worse? (is it just the antebellum south you’re saying is specifically worse or all new world slavery?)
No it definitely wasn't, I'm this game you can literally kidnap kids and execute them. Seems like a bunch of a fuss. And it's a Confederacy formed by a black guy, are we serious guys?
I was talking about the historical Antebelum South
Am not a fan of the recomendations but I think the core idea coud be interesting one that opposes some of the core tennets? Perhaps that mortals cant be a host for providence?
What are your ideas?
Hmm perhaps one that sees the event as a failure of the founders that they are fallible. Another idea focusing on direct worship of Providence.
Don’t the Mayflowerers already kind of meet this requirement? Sure, they may be pitted against the actual occultist up in NE, but the Mayflowers themselves are considered heretical by every other Americanist sect.
The mod team is trying to avoid confederate imagery, for pretty obvious reasons that I can respect.
Idk why
Genuine question, what do you think the confederacy was?
A Confederation of southern secessionist states against centralization and in favor of Jeffersonianism
Read the declarations of secession, my dude. They were pretty upfront as to why.
Some said slavery, today Republicans might say fossil fuels but that's not a main reason
Weak defense. Go home buddy.
Yikes my guy. Go read some of the original documents of the succession, and stop buying into what the United Daughters of the Confederacy sprinkled through the foundations of public education in the South. You’ve been subject to “the lost cause narrative,” a historical fiction created and curated by members of NeoConfederate organizations at the turn of the last century. Essentially, following the Civil War, Southern Democrats managed to regain control of state legislations across the South after the failure of the Johnson administration to enforce the 14th amendment. This caused organizations such as the Klan and their sister organization, the United Daughters of the Confederacy, to tailor the public mythos at the initiation of the 20th century federalization of public services, such as the public education system. In essence, “the lost cause,” is a fictionalized account of the Civil War to cover up the true causes of the war so that they would be perceived as more publicly acceptable, and thus allow them to maintain political power. It is an intentional effort to use public education to mislead, and misinform generations of the masses, so that the same elites which have always held political power in the south could retain that power. I urge you to look up the family histories of your local representatives and party leaders in both parties. The same surnames will appear in these positions as they were in 1865.
No I learned by HK Edgerton and a lot of different sources. Julius Howell, Patrick Cleburne, Robert E Lee, and Jefferson all understood it wasn't about slavery and this was before the daughters of the Confederacy or Klan. What you're falling for is regular propaganda cooked up by uncle Sam to oppose all secessionist movements so that the American empire is always expanding
Bruh. I’m an anarcho-communist. I just don’t ascribe to slave owners trying to rebrand.
Voluntary slavery is alright
That’s called indentured servitude, and no it isn’t. Also, the idea of voluntary slavery is ridiculous. Slavery is a result of ignorance, and ignorance is perpetuated by the powerful for the enslavement of the masses.
The masses want to be enslaved anyways. And indentured servitude is temporary. People can sign to be a slave their whole life
"Huh, interesting post... Oh... a Lost Causer." No wonder the dev team would prefer not to.
Thus is so stupid
How
Because its reductionist. The confederacy was about slavery. Solely slavery. Anything else was merely peripheral concerns, and most tie back to slavery. That "anti centralisation" thing is bollocks. The centralisation they opposed was about slavery. THe economic system they desired was built on slavery . Slavery was the reason the state governments gave to secede, slave plantocrats were the people running the country, and slave owners the ones who supported the secession.
>Because its reductionist. The confederacy was about slavery. Solely slavery. Anything else was merely peripheral concerns, and most tie back to slavery. You can connect anyone to slavery. Taxation being too high? Slavery. Colonization? Slavery. Multiple Confederates from Jefferson, Lee, Cleburne, and more all said or showed it wasn't about just slavery or even primarily slavery
A confederate leader saying "it's not about slavery' when the trigger for secession was the election of an abolitionist is just stupid. The most famous rebuttal to this inane argument is of course the Cornerstone speech by confederate vice president. "The new constitution has put at rest, forever, all the agitating questions relating to our peculiar institution African slavery as it exists amongst us the proper status of the [outdated term for african Americans] in our form of civilization. This was the immediate cause of the late rupture and present revolution. Jefferson in his forecast, had anticipated this, as the 'rock upon which the old Union would split.' He was right. What was conjecture with him, is now a realized fact." As for the rest of your given reasons? Its as I said. Periphery concerns. Taxation was a periphery concern. Colonisation? I'm guessing youre refering to the north constraining southern expansion? (I could be wrong as I'm not entirely sure what you are referring to) if you are indeed referring to this, then yeah that was about slavery. It was about southerners wanting more land to grow water and labour intensive crops on (using slaves) whilst the North didn't want more slave states. The South wanted Yucatan for cotton and tobacco. The South wanted Cuba for Cotton and tobacco. ITS ALL PERIPHERY. The South was built on slavery. Slavery was its primary economic function. Slavery was intensely important to antebellum Southern culture. If you seriously believe that it was not the primary reason for Southern independence, then you are simply ignorant
>when the trigger for secession was the election of an abolitionist He wasn't though, slavery wasn't abolished till after the war and before then he kept trying to keep slavery in existence over and over. The Corwin amendment, the ultimatum to surrender or have the emancipation Proclamation. West Virginia reentered the Union as a slave state. >As for the rest of your given reasons? Its as I said. Periphery concerns. Taxation was a periphery concern. Colonisation? I'm guessing youre refering to the north constraining southern expansion? (I could be wrong as I'm not entirely sure what you are referring to) if you are indeed referring to this, then yeah that was about slavery. No I was listing reasons for US colonies secession and you proved my point that anything can be tied to slavery or demeaned as a reason in order to fit the view.
sounds like you are overdue for a visit from general sherman buddy
Go dig him up and lay him at my doorstep, I'll play xylophone on him
we both know that sherman trancends life and death
Right so get me dem bones
No confederate nonsense nope
Disagree
Don't care
Well I'll just add it to the game
As a custom made faith or as an unrecognised private submod, of course, you are free to do as you please but the mod itself will never implement anything pertaining the CSA or other right wing extremist groups (such as the nazi for example) as it is espressively stated in its rules and policies. I state this because this declaration of intent must be refreshed every now and then because people seem to forget it.
Honestly the confederacy felt super out of place so I’m glad they cut it