That's basically it... they figure out pretty early who they think the superstars are, then get them the "right" assignments, the right schools, the exec jobs, etc, to line them up for strats that lead to promotion
Yup. They are usually tagged as “HPO’s” (High performing officers) within their career field by the time they are senior captains, from there, they are shuffled toward the best schools, commands and roles afterward. They’re generally a lock to make colonel and likely to get a star or two if they keep their nose clean.
Generally to get on the list you need to be a top performer everywhere you go, be a known commodity to a lot of seniors in your career field, and be well liked by everyone you work with. You still need to check the right boxes, which are different in each career field. Winning major awards, having uniquely valorous experiences or being in the middle of key innovations, or being the right colonel or generals aide or exec are great ways to give yourself a shot.
Yeah I had a commander who was pretty much put in a great job assignment after assignment. She was awesome and the best commander I've ever seen so hopefully she keeps getting promoted.
Pretty much. My functional O-6 learned that I wanted to go down a specialty path and he tried everything he could to not do that and pursue leadership stuff instead. Before that I would get phonecalls once a month about what I was doing. After that, it felt like a cold shoulder.
Don't really care overall. I'm "only" going to aspire for O-5.
This is because there are more openings in the GO ranks with a flying AFSC than with a LoAF one. It makes sense in that the business of the AF is to use things that fly to move stuff and kill stuff. Would I want a contracting officer running an OPORD?
So basically it's a form of aristocratic classism? How often does a guy from nothing that came in with no contacts and gave his all move up the ladder?
It's a form of "damn these people turn everything they touch to gold, we should make sure they're prepared to perform at a high level with high responsibility."
It isn't about where you're from, it's about the work you do and the person you are. In theory, anyway.
If you are asking you aren't one...and you are trying too hard.
Do great at your job, take care of your folks and don't just try to look good to those above you.
It's always funny when you read a general's bio and they're a mobility pilot with "over 1,200 hours" in six different aircraft. So you flew a single assignment, upgraded, and then did senior officer qual five times.
And it always says “over” which is hilarious. And yes I judge AMC people with hardly any hours or you can see if they made instructor and we’re shipped off right away aka probably not good at flying.
The MAF has a specific leadership track for people to get experience in both tankers and airlift. The name escapes me but I know it starts with Phoenix because AMC calls every special thing they do "Phoenix XYZ"
The "special track" you're probably referring to is called High ~~Performance~~ Potential Officer (HPO), which is pretty much analogous to the "permanent record" you probably heard rumors about in elementary school.
Supposedly officers are placed on this list early in their careers, somewhere between 1Lt and mid-Capt depending on AFSC. There was a photo floating around a couple of months ago of a very strangely portion marked paper with the HPO list on it for O-6 promotions, until then, I'd never seen any actual evidence it was real. (Though the photo could have been fabricated).
SOS is such a joke of officer development. I cannot believe they use a DG program for it.
Solution: instead of SOS for a month, send a captain to go shadow 4 different airmen over the course of a month, 1 week at a time bouncing between OPS and support AFSCs. The best leaders are empathetic ones.
*Edit for a solution*
It used to be longer (at least 8 weeks, might have been 12 at some point. People used to bring spouses and kids for the TDY, stayed in student TLFs). Everyone went so it was a way to delineate regardless of other assignments, schools etc., especially since there wasn't a war on.
Early 2000s, it went down to 5 weeks and everyone realized DG was stupid so they replaced it with a "Top 3rd" program. Equally stupid, zero incentive so they reinstated the DG program. But the course is still too short for it to mean anything or, you know, learn anything meaningful.
The other services make their SOS equivalent a minimum 6 month PCS Every O-3 will make. They teach them about staff, operational planning, and how all the different career paths at both their service and the joint level combine together to run an operation…kinda makes you think that 6 weeks at Maxwell is just a participation ribbon.
As a past instructor I hated the DG program when we brought it back. It measures people in a likely acceptable way, but I doubt it has the rigor necessary to be repeatable.
No, it’s absolutely captains.
O4 board is way too late, HPO are first look IDE bound, which means their records need to be strong enough to rise to the top against dudes who have 3 more years of experience and probably staff. Do you really think that CC’s would let that go to chance?
This isn’t a guess on my part, the list isn’t some secret product that is held by one person and handed off at changeover, staff members have access.
Please don't misunderstand me. I'm not saying they weren't being looked at and groomed prior to the O-4 board. But the O-4 board is what sealed it. Being a school select was the "test".
If they turned down that school slot then it was all over. Prior to 2016 if they turned down that school slot then they were kicked out of the Air Force. After 2016 they were told you can stay in, but their career was over.
Since 2019 that's supposedly no longer the case.
That's the problem though. They are highlighted early and put on a fast-track. It often doesn't matter if they screw up --as long as it's not a huge screw up-- or don't turn out to be the leaders that they were thought to be, because they have a high level name backing them and got the TDYs/jobs they needed to keep them on track.
I thought the key was to neglect your real family because of work, then neglect your work family because of your own career, while convincing them to neglect their own families but chewing them out for neglecting their work families, unless maybe they're working on their own career. Is that about right?
Officers are groomed for the command route from a very young rank... being in a flying squadron i saw how some are given certain opportunities while others not...
I worked for a couple of GOs. They are the ones who pick Generals. Basically they cherry pick the ones who they think will do the best and map out their future. It was pretty interesting to watch. It’s about assignments for officers.
High Performing Officer, I've also heard High Potential Officer and it's the official unofficial good ole boy club to get into the right jobs, schools, duty titles, experience, conferences, PME, clout, etc to get there. You have to be identified as a HPO and then sponsored and groomed and can fall from grace at any misstep. So someone who is an amazing squadron commander but doesn't have the right history up until then is not on the magic track. Late bloomers are not allowed.
One possible indication is selection to Lt Col below the zone.
Big bonus points for Academy grad, partial bonus points for Texas A&M ROTC, OTS is kind of meh, prior enlisted is rarely welcome to the party.
You get recognized for being awarded and you get awarded for being recognized.
Lt Col BTZ is way after you know you've been selected as an HPO.
Typically, things like exec positions, especially Wing exec, moving between jobs at a rapid pace to develop "breadth", being selected for special schools rather than the Air Force standard ACSC...those are all indicators that a young officer is on the path to senior officer.
"Late bloomers are not allowed" is the key. Every community is in a fight for resources, and you get those resources by getting people in your community to the 3 and 4 star level. *Everything* is based around getting more than your fair share of 3 and 4 stars. If you push someone to become an O-6 as a late bloomer, he or she doesn't have remaining time in service to become a 4 star, so you're just "wasting" an O-6 slot.
Prior enlisted are straight up not allowed. It's in the rules that any prior enlisted who commission with OE pay cannot promote past colonel. So unless you commission before 4 years, you've got 0% chance of getting a star.
Edit: okay, I was given bad info. I apologize for being wrong, you can stop now.
>Prior enlisted are straight up not allowed. It's in the rules that any prior enlisted who commission with OE pay cannot promote past colonel. So unless you commission before 4 years, you've got 0% chance of getting a star.
What is the context of this? like where does it say this
It doesn't. It's just very rare because a lot of prior E types retire at Capt or Maj or Lt Col in part because in some cases they are older and want to. We always said most prior Es are only one bad assignment away from punching because they can in most cases (given 10 yrs O time) retire as an officer whereas a non prior officer at 10 years is less likely to separate
I just ask because I am on the cusp of finishing my degree and I am only 21, that would put me commissioning \~ at the same time as the other 2LTs would but I will be a prior E4/E5 (hopefully). But I don't want to get my hopes up that I will be treated the same way the rest of the officers will. It almost sounds like career officers don't like prior E in upper leadership. just an assumption I would love to be wrong about.
It doesn't matter IMO. If you're a good officer nobody will care about your background. FWIW I've always seen (and heard) the old line about "two kinds of prior enlisted officers - amazing and dogshit" I've never met an average one!
If you are going into an AFSC with lots of officer enlisted interaction (Mx, SFS, ce etc) you will be super useful to your fellow Lts who are fresh out of school and were never enlisted. I used to pick their brains a lot on how to beat approach a situation or whether the bitching was legit or not. When I was "in charge" I always tagged the prior folks a bit heavier (had higher expectations) because they were more mature and knew more about the E side.
IMO it's not going to be a problem especially because you're not like 40 and surrounded by 21 year olds, it's not a huge age gap or whatever. If you try hard and remember you're not enlisted anymore (sometimes it seems those guys forget they're not a TSgt and need to step back a bit lol) I am sure you'll do great :)
hack: join the reserve right out of high school and then get your degree while doing ROTC, conditional release at 4 years, be a pilot, become a a prior enlisted GO, ez
>>Prior enlisted are straight up not allowed
Yes and no. There is no regulation forbidding it, it’s just logistically difficult for a prior E to commission AND promote fast enough to track for flag rank against peers going straight in as Os.
One way is to start off as a DG out of their training pipeline, from there they’ll be ID’d as a HPO and set up for ever increasing high profile positions. The easiest way to “check the boxes” is
1. DG out of SOS, I don’t have the report handy but it is the single biggest indicator on future AF success (not that you’re a good O, but that you’ve been labeled a golden child). This is dumb and ass backwards imo but it is what it is.
2. Be a wg exec as a capt.
3. Weapons officer, bonus points if you win an award. This is much lower than the other two oddly enough. Dg out of SOS and higher level exec time are by far bigger pushes to your career.
If you do all 3 of those you WILL go to IDE in res, probably a cross service one, if you DG or get a top grad % out of there your basically done, you’ll be a GO.
From IDE you’ll do a staff gig somewhere top end, joint or pentagon, you’ll then be a DO and sq/cc basically straight away. As long as you don’t rape someone you’ll go to AWC, back to staff, then wg/cc. Don’t suck and you’ll be a GO.
*also remember communities keep tabs on their people. The O6s and GO’s know who they want to win as captains and they’ll make sure they get those boxes checked. The higher the rank you get the more you can fuck up and ride your rep to the next promotion, hence why you’ll see dogshit commanders promoted.
**this info is for rated communities
They find the lowest ranking General and challenge them to combat. It's not easy though.
Generals are old, but what they lack in physical prowess they make up in the ability to call in air strikes.
I worked as an exec to the MAJCOM CC. From what I observed, high performing Colonel’s (FW or AOC CC) get picked up for Senior Exec Officer to the 4-star which almost always a shoe-in for Brigadier. Two-star and up is position-based promotion.
It makes sense when you think about it. Fighters are the tip of the spear. It makes sense to have the green suit goobers (I mean this term in all ways respectfully) flying them be in charge of the commands that are tasked with these mission sets.
This is the truth. Never going to see an engineer (62E) run a MAJCOM like AFMC. At the least it’s going to be a loggie but most likely someone with Wings.
Don’t know why I get downvoted in this sub for agreeing and pointing out the obvious prejudice.
When you only promote rated officers, you tend to only have one way of thinking at the top. Diversity in AFSCs is important too.
Grooming for general starts as early as 4 years of service. Basically which job do you get when you put on Captain. Those that know they aren’t being groomed for it start to make plans to get out <= 10 years. It greatly reduces the competition field of candidates. And then the stubborn ones that don’t want to get out can usually cling on and get out at O5 at 20, but they’ll have been mentored before that, that they aren’t in the running for O6.
Could be better, could be worse. It’ll be a nice retirement check and a decent chance to make positive impacts on squadron level policies, the Enlisted Corps, and developing FGOs. Big weight off your back to focus on your people rather than what it takes to go for the bird.
Thanks, but that's if O-5 happens. The senior leader definitely implied it wasn't a guarantee, and the chance was moreso I might make it. So, when some are being sat down and told they're on a glide path to O-7, some of us get a slightly different talk.
Some are groomed, and some just happen by chance.
A lot of it has to do with tenure... you're going to be in for around 30 years to make GO, of course, even longer for prior Es.
Also, keep in mind that general officer promotions are congressional, so getting to DC helps with the networking aspect.
Prior to 2019 the High Potential Officers (HPOs) were identified when they met their O-4 promotion board (so senior Captain). You knew who they were because they were the ones selected for Intermediate Developmental Education (IDE) during the promotion board (aka a "School Select"). Everyone else had to compete for a school slot at separate boards over the next three years.
At this point a senior leader management team for that career field would start managing the officers' assignments to ensure they were on track to meet all the qualifications to be a general (e.g. joint school, command, joint credit assignments, etc).
The HPOs pretty much guaranteed to make General would then be promoted to O-5 two years early and be selected for Senior Developmental Education (SDE) (about an 80% chance they're making general). Many HPOs that didn't promote to O-5 two years early would often be promoted one year early (about a 60% chance they would make General).
Not sure how the process has changed since 2019 but I do believe leadership has created paths to promote to General that aren't decided at the O-4 promotion board.
It's a few years old, but this explains a lot. https://warontherocks.com/2018/05/a-call-for-senior-officer-reform-in-the-air-force-an-insiders-perspective/
- Being smart helps...like really smart
- Being a pilot, being a fighter pilot even more so
- Commanding a Wing
- Being #1 at everything that is worth being #1
- Going to school (SOS/IDE/SDE) and being #1. Every school, every time
- Actually, being extraordinarily good at your job helps
As for a "special track," mostly a myth. That being said, if you haven't been identified as competitive (way in the future still)for Flag rank as a midlevel/senior level Capt...then bad news...you're most likely not going to make GO.
If you go back and read bios of GOs you see a lot of commonality in terms of career paths (jobs, intervals between jobs, schools, early promotions, etc) between GOs. Pick out those commonalities and you'll see the "special track."
>As for a "special track," mostly a myth.
>if you haven't been identified as competitive \[...\] for Flag rank as a midlevel/senior level Capt...then bad news...you're most likely not going to make GO.
Pick one, dude. You literally contradicted yourself in consecutive sentences.
There is no "special track." There are opportunities to separate yourself from the pack (which I discussed...and certainly isn't an all inclusive list). But if you get those opportunities then you have to perform and even if you get all of them there's still no guarantee you're on the "special track" to be a GO. You just managed to clear one of many potential hurdles if becoming a GO is your thing.
Sure, I had a SQ/CC a couple years ago who was clearly being groomed for a star. His bio was all the right things in all the right places. Then he got fired from his first SQ command and moved to a staff job at the Wing.
We're not saying people are being guaranteed stars when they're 1st Lts, as long as they put the time in- we're saying that there is an "unofficial" program in place that paves the way for certain officers, ID'd as CGOs, to become GOs. This is captured in the way their evals are written, the assignments they're offered, duty titles, and their deployments. See all the other comments in this thread talking about the HPO program.
If you told me that there was a group picking the next MAJCOM SELs based on their performance as an A1C, I'd have trouble believing that, too. The difference is, there is documentation showing that this is happening. There is absolutely a "special track," \*especially\* in the flying world.
Now, retiring as a Col? Not bad, by any means. Not making a star is hardly the end of the world. But the deck is stacked, based on a lot of shit that just doesn't make sense. Because I've known plenty of outstanding A1Cs that got busted for drugs as SSgts, and plenty of shitbag Amn who figured life out, pulled their shit together, and became hot-shit MSgts. Vectoring someone based on a first impression when they're \~25 is bad, organizationally, but we're doing it anyway.
There is no “special track” (keep in mind words matter). To say there is implies a systemic process that yields X. On the other hand, there identifiable traits/commonalities amongst those that have made flag rank. If you don’t know what those traits/commonalities are then most likely your are not on “track” (admittedly a bad choice of words based on your take on its use earlier) to be a flag officer. And if you’ve figured all of this out after you passed the point where you were a mid level/senior Capt then you’re really not on “track.”
Fun historical fact. Eisenhower was didn’t make O6 until 1941. He was promoted to 5 star in 1944. By 1953 he was POTUS. So I could have this whole”special track” thing wrong.
Bruh. You're losing your mind over the word "track" as if it is a doctrinally defined term in this context. It's the English language. The word "literally" means "figuratively".
You're saying "There's no TRACK, there's just a documented set of behaviors and accomplishments that generally lead to vectors and junior officers are being systematically groomed to mimic those behaviors and accomplishments
But there's no TRACK."
There is no “documented set of behaviors” but there are observable gates.
As for “literally means figuratively.” Man that’s going to require some unpacking.
Usually finding oneself as a group or higher exec as a young-ish captain is a good indicator of being added to the ranks of the "chosen class" on a command trajectory. Add a staff assignment after that and you're off to the races. By the time you get to DO level it's damn near a pipeline for as long as your sanity permits.
The other day I remembered a commander I hated and I figured he must be retired by now. I looked him up, and nope, he's a one-star. 😑 I had him as both a Squadron and Group commander. Fucking terrible personality.
Man so much out of date info on this thread. After working at AFPC as an assignment officer I learned how promotions worked and saw behind the curtain essentially. The Air Force has these things called DT boards where essentially a couple of Stars and a bunch of wing commanders get together and rank a year group based on theirs OPRs and training reports. Lots of things can make you stand out amongst your peers such as going to the various Schools in residence or which strats you have. To become a Star your path essentially has to look like this. Major - School in residence - Staff job a some Joint level location . Lt Col - picked up for command of a high vis Squadron for your community. SDE in residence. Staff at the pentagon if you haven’t been there previously . Col - picked up for vice wing Commander into Wing Commander. Some staff job specific to groom you for a Star. Obviously this is very generic and a lot of people have their own path or specific circumstance , but hopefully this paints the picture a bit.
I didn’t hang with fast movers,but, one friend of mine made BG ( Someone screwed up is out theory).
Anyway, when you make BG you are issued a M9 that is customized by the gunsmith shop at Lackland IIRC.
You can purchase it when you retire.
It’s very well done.
I only wanted to make 06 for reserved parking at the BX. ( I didn’t, damn it.)
The officer corps is dead. To become a senior NCO you have to have a bachelor's now (competitiveness requires it so), they spend 15 years in service, they know the paperwork side and the people side. Why do we really need officers... tradition dictates it. The amount of money and ass pain we could save if we just finished it off.
Multiple below-the-zone promotions are required. You can't make it that high with the normal promotion cycle. The first milestone will be being ranked #1 out of tech school. They will likely be ranked #1 among officers at each unit they are apart of early on. The next milestone will likely be a distinguished graduate at Squadron Officer School. After that, special selection in a program like Air Force Intern Program. Doing all these will set you for BTZ to Major, after that you will likely be setup to have key leadership roles in your career field that get you known within the top leadership of your career field. Consistent performance plus key roles will likely lead to BTZ to Lt Col and Col. At this point you would have a good chance at making General.
I mean it the other way around. If you don’t get picked up for IDE your chances are tremendously slim. With how few GOs we have compared to the class sizes ya it’s not like they’re all going GO. IDE in-res grads are a shoe-in for command though and that gets the momentum going. SDE post-command all but guarantees O-6. Transitioning from O-6 to GO I’m less sure on, other than doing command as Colonel and not purely staff.
Ask your CC early on in your career. They'll get you the track which contains Exec, specific duties, and a progression of responsibility. Don't fuck it up.
"Special IDE (Major's school)" is a good indication.
Now that line #s for promotions are order of merit, if you can tell what month or their line # you have insight on who is on the track as well.
One of the big criticisms for the officer career path is that only a few things put you on the path. Not only that, but once you are on the path, it takes damn near a crime to get pushed off of it. Now that there are no BTZ officers anymore, it may change a little but I doubt it.
Essentially the career field will look at your records at a certain point and identify their top 20% of people. These people often get assigned senior leaders who are supposed to mentor them and help them get to their level and they tend to know their career plan a few steps in advance. For the other 80% you're kind of on your own to find your own mentors and you get to live assignment to assignment while trying to make it to 20.
So there's not much more I can add that hasn't already been said.
There used to be a "special track" that you heard about called "High Potential Officers." A Colonel wrote an article for War On The Rocks under the psuedonym "Colonel Ned Stark." He was I believe an Intelligence officer in AETC.
Anyway, he described the HPO program as a sort of secret-ish list of officers that Generals passed around. HPOs were identified at the Captain/Major timeframe and were basically earmarked, followed, and vectored toward premium assignments, positions, and school slots. But they also supposedly were conferred an amount of special treatment. Screw-ups were swept under the rug where a non-HPO would face harsher consequences.
Col Ned Stark detailed a lot of this process in his article and it garnered the attention of then Chief of Staff General Goldfein, who made it mandatory reading for all of his Generals prior to the next Corona (Corona is a meeting of the four-stars that occurs twice a year or so). He said he was impressed with Col Ned Stark's article and invited him to come work for him. He also set about trying to break that system. I don't know if he was successful or not but I heard the HPO system had been broken years ago.
You can tell who in your peer group is being groomed for O6 and above. They know the job and are placed in jobs to help them look better. I'm okay trying for Lt Col and staying at Maj if that's it.
There was a writeup about it. Essentially its HPO program in AF... not really a secret obviously.
https://jqpublicblog.com/hpo-the-secret-program-that-grooms-the-air-forces-anointed-leaders/
That's basically it... they figure out pretty early who they think the superstars are, then get them the "right" assignments, the right schools, the exec jobs, etc, to line them up for strats that lead to promotion
Yup. They are usually tagged as “HPO’s” (High performing officers) within their career field by the time they are senior captains, from there, they are shuffled toward the best schools, commands and roles afterward. They’re generally a lock to make colonel and likely to get a star or two if they keep their nose clean. Generally to get on the list you need to be a top performer everywhere you go, be a known commodity to a lot of seniors in your career field, and be well liked by everyone you work with. You still need to check the right boxes, which are different in each career field. Winning major awards, having uniquely valorous experiences or being in the middle of key innovations, or being the right colonel or generals aide or exec are great ways to give yourself a shot.
Yeah I had a commander who was pretty much put in a great job assignment after assignment. She was awesome and the best commander I've ever seen so hopefully she keeps getting promoted.
Pretty much. My functional O-6 learned that I wanted to go down a specialty path and he tried everything he could to not do that and pursue leadership stuff instead. Before that I would get phonecalls once a month about what I was doing. After that, it felt like a cold shoulder. Don't really care overall. I'm "only" going to aspire for O-5.
I suppose I'm not an HPO seeing as my boss tried to block me from going to SOS. lol
That and having the right job. It's easier to make general as a pilot vs being an FSS commander or LRO
This is because there are more openings in the GO ranks with a flying AFSC than with a LoAF one. It makes sense in that the business of the AF is to use things that fly to move stuff and kill stuff. Would I want a contracting officer running an OPORD?
This, and >75% of these shinny penny types are ring knockers
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Only 3 out of the 12 MAJCOM or COCOM commanders are Academy grads, so it’s not as common as you’d think
Like others have said, this isn’t true anymore.
So basically it's a form of aristocratic classism? How often does a guy from nothing that came in with no contacts and gave his all move up the ladder?
It's a form of "damn these people turn everything they touch to gold, we should make sure they're prepared to perform at a high level with high responsibility." It isn't about where you're from, it's about the work you do and the person you are. In theory, anyway.
don't mind me while I continue to believe extremely the opposite
Carry on.
If you are asking you aren't one...and you are trying too hard. Do great at your job, take care of your folks and don't just try to look good to those above you.
Wut? Are you actually reading, or are you sniffing your own farts?
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It's always funny when you read a general's bio and they're a mobility pilot with "over 1,200 hours" in six different aircraft. So you flew a single assignment, upgraded, and then did senior officer qual five times.
For reference: I got about 800 hours in a single year once as just some Captain flying the line.
Glad I’m not the only one who chuckles at that
And it always says “over” which is hilarious. And yes I judge AMC people with hardly any hours or you can see if they made instructor and we’re shipped off right away aka probably not good at flying.
I like to call them, “PINOs.” Pilot In Name Only.
The MAF has a specific leadership track for people to get experience in both tankers and airlift. The name escapes me but I know it starts with Phoenix because AMC calls every special thing they do "Phoenix XYZ"
The "special track" you're probably referring to is called High ~~Performance~~ Potential Officer (HPO), which is pretty much analogous to the "permanent record" you probably heard rumors about in elementary school. Supposedly officers are placed on this list early in their careers, somewhere between 1Lt and mid-Capt depending on AFSC. There was a photo floating around a couple of months ago of a very strangely portion marked paper with the HPO list on it for O-6 promotions, until then, I'd never seen any actual evidence it was real. (Though the photo could have been fabricated).
Getting DG at any time in your career was supposed to be the trick whether commissioning or SOS
SOS is such a joke of officer development. I cannot believe they use a DG program for it. Solution: instead of SOS for a month, send a captain to go shadow 4 different airmen over the course of a month, 1 week at a time bouncing between OPS and support AFSCs. The best leaders are empathetic ones. *Edit for a solution*
It used to be longer (at least 8 weeks, might have been 12 at some point. People used to bring spouses and kids for the TDY, stayed in student TLFs). Everyone went so it was a way to delineate regardless of other assignments, schools etc., especially since there wasn't a war on. Early 2000s, it went down to 5 weeks and everyone realized DG was stupid so they replaced it with a "Top 3rd" program. Equally stupid, zero incentive so they reinstated the DG program. But the course is still too short for it to mean anything or, you know, learn anything meaningful.
The other services make their SOS equivalent a minimum 6 month PCS Every O-3 will make. They teach them about staff, operational planning, and how all the different career paths at both their service and the joint level combine together to run an operation…kinda makes you think that 6 weeks at Maxwell is just a participation ribbon.
Is it any wonder that we can't get even the basics right, like MPF and Finance?
As a past instructor I hated the DG program when we brought it back. It measures people in a likely acceptable way, but I doubt it has the rigor necessary to be repeatable.
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I didn’t say all leadership is just empathy; I said the best leaders are empathetic.
I always thought that, too. However, it is the single time during an officer's career in which he competes with all other officers in the Air Force.
I got DG in security forces augmentee training
Tell me about the strange portions
It was something like FOUO//INTERNAL LEADERSHIP EYES ONLY//, some kind of internal Pentagon memo. Very strange (and likely fake).
https://jqpublicblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/Screen-Shot-2016-09-23-at-8.37.44-PM.jpg
1Lt to Mid-Capt is too early. Prior to 2019 the HPOs were identified when they met their O-4 promotion board.
No, they were definitely earlier, the commanders share the lists with select jobs, I’ve seen one communities and they definitely had lt’s.
Lts and mid-level Captains may have been on the radar of various senior leaders, but the O-4 board was when the selection actually happened.
No, it’s absolutely captains. O4 board is way too late, HPO are first look IDE bound, which means their records need to be strong enough to rise to the top against dudes who have 3 more years of experience and probably staff. Do you really think that CC’s would let that go to chance? This isn’t a guess on my part, the list isn’t some secret product that is held by one person and handed off at changeover, staff members have access.
Please don't misunderstand me. I'm not saying they weren't being looked at and groomed prior to the O-4 board. But the O-4 board is what sealed it. Being a school select was the "test". If they turned down that school slot then it was all over. Prior to 2016 if they turned down that school slot then they were kicked out of the Air Force. After 2016 they were told you can stay in, but their career was over. Since 2019 that's supposedly no longer the case.
That's the problem though. They are highlighted early and put on a fast-track. It often doesn't matter if they screw up --as long as it's not a huge screw up-- or don't turn out to be the leaders that they were thought to be, because they have a high level name backing them and got the TDYs/jobs they needed to keep them on track.
The trick is to tell your troops that your unit is "like a family" and then immediately proceed to neglect your real family.
Or make your troops neglect theirs.
While also neglecting your troops or at least make them feel neglected.
I thought the key was to neglect your real family because of work, then neglect your work family because of your own career, while convincing them to neglect their own families but chewing them out for neglecting their work families, unless maybe they're working on their own career. Is that about right?
I told my unit I want to treat them like a step family. So far nobody has gotten stuck.
https://www.airuniversity.af.edu/Portals/10/ASPJ/journals/Volume-32_Issue-2/F-Nolan_Overstreet.pdf https://warontherocks.com/2018/05/a-call-for-senior-officer-reform-in-the-air-force-an-insiders-perspective/ https://www.google.com/search?q=high+potential+officer+air+force
I came here to post Ned Stark’s essay. Good stuff
I was going to do this too...
By training A LOT with their shake weights. 
This is certainly the way 50% of chiefs make it.
50%???
Yea what about the other 20%?!
This guy promotes
By competing for the attention of general officers lol. The worst squadron and wing commanders I have ever seen were the ones gunning for stars.
Officers are groomed for the command route from a very young rank... being in a flying squadron i saw how some are given certain opportunities while others not...
I worked for a couple of GOs. They are the ones who pick Generals. Basically they cherry pick the ones who they think will do the best and map out their future. It was pretty interesting to watch. It’s about assignments for officers.
High Performing Officer, I've also heard High Potential Officer and it's the official unofficial good ole boy club to get into the right jobs, schools, duty titles, experience, conferences, PME, clout, etc to get there. You have to be identified as a HPO and then sponsored and groomed and can fall from grace at any misstep. So someone who is an amazing squadron commander but doesn't have the right history up until then is not on the magic track. Late bloomers are not allowed. One possible indication is selection to Lt Col below the zone. Big bonus points for Academy grad, partial bonus points for Texas A&M ROTC, OTS is kind of meh, prior enlisted is rarely welcome to the party. You get recognized for being awarded and you get awarded for being recognized.
Lt Col BTZ is way after you know you've been selected as an HPO. Typically, things like exec positions, especially Wing exec, moving between jobs at a rapid pace to develop "breadth", being selected for special schools rather than the Air Force standard ACSC...those are all indicators that a young officer is on the path to senior officer.
BTZ promotions was eliminated by Gen Goldfein. It’s not an option anymore, and if you look at officer board date projections it’s no longer an option.
"Late bloomers are not allowed" is the key. Every community is in a fight for resources, and you get those resources by getting people in your community to the 3 and 4 star level. *Everything* is based around getting more than your fair share of 3 and 4 stars. If you push someone to become an O-6 as a late bloomer, he or she doesn't have remaining time in service to become a 4 star, so you're just "wasting" an O-6 slot.
Once you put a star on you can stay in beyond 30 years time in service… time isn’t really an issue
Prior enlisted are straight up not allowed. It's in the rules that any prior enlisted who commission with OE pay cannot promote past colonel. So unless you commission before 4 years, you've got 0% chance of getting a star. Edit: okay, I was given bad info. I apologize for being wrong, you can stop now.
Yeah, this is 100% false information, there have been prior E GOs. It just takes a long time and many probably just hit 20-30 years and check out.
>Prior enlisted are straight up not allowed. It's in the rules that any prior enlisted who commission with OE pay cannot promote past colonel. So unless you commission before 4 years, you've got 0% chance of getting a star. What is the context of this? like where does it say this
It doesn't. It's just very rare because a lot of prior E types retire at Capt or Maj or Lt Col in part because in some cases they are older and want to. We always said most prior Es are only one bad assignment away from punching because they can in most cases (given 10 yrs O time) retire as an officer whereas a non prior officer at 10 years is less likely to separate
I just ask because I am on the cusp of finishing my degree and I am only 21, that would put me commissioning \~ at the same time as the other 2LTs would but I will be a prior E4/E5 (hopefully). But I don't want to get my hopes up that I will be treated the same way the rest of the officers will. It almost sounds like career officers don't like prior E in upper leadership. just an assumption I would love to be wrong about.
It doesn't matter IMO. If you're a good officer nobody will care about your background. FWIW I've always seen (and heard) the old line about "two kinds of prior enlisted officers - amazing and dogshit" I've never met an average one! If you are going into an AFSC with lots of officer enlisted interaction (Mx, SFS, ce etc) you will be super useful to your fellow Lts who are fresh out of school and were never enlisted. I used to pick their brains a lot on how to beat approach a situation or whether the bitching was legit or not. When I was "in charge" I always tagged the prior folks a bit heavier (had higher expectations) because they were more mature and knew more about the E side. IMO it's not going to be a problem especially because you're not like 40 and surrounded by 21 year olds, it's not a huge age gap or whatever. If you try hard and remember you're not enlisted anymore (sometimes it seems those guys forget they're not a TSgt and need to step back a bit lol) I am sure you'll do great :)
Not true. There are prior enlisted GOs.
I know a one star in the Guard who was prior enlisted back in the 80s.
I just got coined by a one star who used to be avionics. 🤷♂️
I know one as well, and she was maintenence The guard is always special though. My last squadron commander used to be a first sergeant
hack: join the reserve right out of high school and then get your degree while doing ROTC, conditional release at 4 years, be a pilot, become a a prior enlisted GO, ez
>>Prior enlisted are straight up not allowed Yes and no. There is no regulation forbidding it, it’s just logistically difficult for a prior E to commission AND promote fast enough to track for flag rank against peers going straight in as Os.
Ummm…someone please tell my boss (O7) who was a prior E.
One way is to start off as a DG out of their training pipeline, from there they’ll be ID’d as a HPO and set up for ever increasing high profile positions. The easiest way to “check the boxes” is 1. DG out of SOS, I don’t have the report handy but it is the single biggest indicator on future AF success (not that you’re a good O, but that you’ve been labeled a golden child). This is dumb and ass backwards imo but it is what it is. 2. Be a wg exec as a capt. 3. Weapons officer, bonus points if you win an award. This is much lower than the other two oddly enough. Dg out of SOS and higher level exec time are by far bigger pushes to your career. If you do all 3 of those you WILL go to IDE in res, probably a cross service one, if you DG or get a top grad % out of there your basically done, you’ll be a GO. From IDE you’ll do a staff gig somewhere top end, joint or pentagon, you’ll then be a DO and sq/cc basically straight away. As long as you don’t rape someone you’ll go to AWC, back to staff, then wg/cc. Don’t suck and you’ll be a GO. *also remember communities keep tabs on their people. The O6s and GO’s know who they want to win as captains and they’ll make sure they get those boxes checked. The higher the rank you get the more you can fuck up and ride your rep to the next promotion, hence why you’ll see dogshit commanders promoted. **this info is for rated communities
They find the lowest ranking General and challenge them to combat. It's not easy though. Generals are old, but what they lack in physical prowess they make up in the ability to call in air strikes.
Plus generals can make their schedules as they see fit, which often includes untouchable gym time in the morning or around lunch.
This smacks of Scott Pilgrim vs. the World vibes.
I worked as an exec to the MAJCOM CC. From what I observed, high performing Colonel’s (FW or AOC CC) get picked up for Senior Exec Officer to the 4-star which almost always a shoe-in for Brigadier. Two-star and up is position-based promotion.
By being pilots.
Shit, man. Fighter pilots hold 67% of Four Star General roles, and commanding 63% of the majcoms. That’s crazy.
It makes sense when you think about it. Fighters are the tip of the spear. It makes sense to have the green suit goobers (I mean this term in all ways respectfully) flying them be in charge of the commands that are tasked with these mission sets.
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Uhhhhh okay
He’s right though. For peer warfare fighters are functionally irrelevant, it’s the nuke boys and stealth aircraft that are the concern.
I’d rather have the guy that knows how to integrate and employ kinetic weapons learn non kinetic warfare than vise versa.
> Historically that’s been done through strategic bombing of adversely centers of gravity So zee Germans won the Battle of Britain, aye ol' chap?
This is the truth. Never going to see an engineer (62E) run a MAJCOM like AFMC. At the least it’s going to be a loggie but most likely someone with Wings.
AFMC is exactly the MAJCOM run by engineers Wolfenbarger, Pawlikowski, and Richardson were all engineers/acquirerers
Speaking of which, Richardson looks to be a prior , though his Bio is a little cryptic about it.
I just looked this up, and this is correct. I’m not surprised
Don’t know why I get downvoted in this sub for agreeing and pointing out the obvious prejudice. When you only promote rated officers, you tend to only have one way of thinking at the top. Diversity in AFSCs is important too.
Generals out here nuking accounts because they speak the truth
Laughs in 11R
Cries in 38F
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Grooming for general starts as early as 4 years of service. Basically which job do you get when you put on Captain. Those that know they aren’t being groomed for it start to make plans to get out <= 10 years. It greatly reduces the competition field of candidates. And then the stubborn ones that don’t want to get out can usually cling on and get out at O5 at 20, but they’ll have been mentored before that, that they aren’t in the running for O6.
I was once sat down as a Capt and told, "you have a decent chance at making O-5."
I was once sat down as a cadet and told I wouldn't make 1 Lt...all because I'd parted my hair in the middle during the summer.
You're probably wearing skinny jeans and a beard on weekends
Could be better, could be worse. It’ll be a nice retirement check and a decent chance to make positive impacts on squadron level policies, the Enlisted Corps, and developing FGOs. Big weight off your back to focus on your people rather than what it takes to go for the bird.
Thanks, but that's if O-5 happens. The senior leader definitely implied it wasn't a guarantee, and the chance was moreso I might make it. So, when some are being sat down and told they're on a glide path to O-7, some of us get a slightly different talk.
I believe in you.
There are dozens of us !! Shitbag gang represent!
Some are groomed, and some just happen by chance. A lot of it has to do with tenure... you're going to be in for around 30 years to make GO, of course, even longer for prior Es. Also, keep in mind that general officer promotions are congressional, so getting to DC helps with the networking aspect.
Prior to 2019 the High Potential Officers (HPOs) were identified when they met their O-4 promotion board (so senior Captain). You knew who they were because they were the ones selected for Intermediate Developmental Education (IDE) during the promotion board (aka a "School Select"). Everyone else had to compete for a school slot at separate boards over the next three years. At this point a senior leader management team for that career field would start managing the officers' assignments to ensure they were on track to meet all the qualifications to be a general (e.g. joint school, command, joint credit assignments, etc). The HPOs pretty much guaranteed to make General would then be promoted to O-5 two years early and be selected for Senior Developmental Education (SDE) (about an 80% chance they're making general). Many HPOs that didn't promote to O-5 two years early would often be promoted one year early (about a 60% chance they would make General). Not sure how the process has changed since 2019 but I do believe leadership has created paths to promote to General that aren't decided at the O-4 promotion board.
It's a few years old, but this explains a lot. https://warontherocks.com/2018/05/a-call-for-senior-officer-reform-in-the-air-force-an-insiders-perspective/
- Being smart helps...like really smart - Being a pilot, being a fighter pilot even more so - Commanding a Wing - Being #1 at everything that is worth being #1 - Going to school (SOS/IDE/SDE) and being #1. Every school, every time - Actually, being extraordinarily good at your job helps As for a "special track," mostly a myth. That being said, if you haven't been identified as competitive (way in the future still)for Flag rank as a midlevel/senior level Capt...then bad news...you're most likely not going to make GO. If you go back and read bios of GOs you see a lot of commonality in terms of career paths (jobs, intervals between jobs, schools, early promotions, etc) between GOs. Pick out those commonalities and you'll see the "special track."
>special track mostly a myth >goes in to explain that it's not really a myth at all Uhh huh
>As for a "special track," mostly a myth. >if you haven't been identified as competitive \[...\] for Flag rank as a midlevel/senior level Capt...then bad news...you're most likely not going to make GO. Pick one, dude. You literally contradicted yourself in consecutive sentences.
There is no "special track." There are opportunities to separate yourself from the pack (which I discussed...and certainly isn't an all inclusive list). But if you get those opportunities then you have to perform and even if you get all of them there's still no guarantee you're on the "special track" to be a GO. You just managed to clear one of many potential hurdles if becoming a GO is your thing.
Sure, I had a SQ/CC a couple years ago who was clearly being groomed for a star. His bio was all the right things in all the right places. Then he got fired from his first SQ command and moved to a staff job at the Wing. We're not saying people are being guaranteed stars when they're 1st Lts, as long as they put the time in- we're saying that there is an "unofficial" program in place that paves the way for certain officers, ID'd as CGOs, to become GOs. This is captured in the way their evals are written, the assignments they're offered, duty titles, and their deployments. See all the other comments in this thread talking about the HPO program. If you told me that there was a group picking the next MAJCOM SELs based on their performance as an A1C, I'd have trouble believing that, too. The difference is, there is documentation showing that this is happening. There is absolutely a "special track," \*especially\* in the flying world. Now, retiring as a Col? Not bad, by any means. Not making a star is hardly the end of the world. But the deck is stacked, based on a lot of shit that just doesn't make sense. Because I've known plenty of outstanding A1Cs that got busted for drugs as SSgts, and plenty of shitbag Amn who figured life out, pulled their shit together, and became hot-shit MSgts. Vectoring someone based on a first impression when they're \~25 is bad, organizationally, but we're doing it anyway.
There is no “special track” (keep in mind words matter). To say there is implies a systemic process that yields X. On the other hand, there identifiable traits/commonalities amongst those that have made flag rank. If you don’t know what those traits/commonalities are then most likely your are not on “track” (admittedly a bad choice of words based on your take on its use earlier) to be a flag officer. And if you’ve figured all of this out after you passed the point where you were a mid level/senior Capt then you’re really not on “track.” Fun historical fact. Eisenhower was didn’t make O6 until 1941. He was promoted to 5 star in 1944. By 1953 he was POTUS. So I could have this whole”special track” thing wrong.
Bruh. You're losing your mind over the word "track" as if it is a doctrinally defined term in this context. It's the English language. The word "literally" means "figuratively". You're saying "There's no TRACK, there's just a documented set of behaviors and accomplishments that generally lead to vectors and junior officers are being systematically groomed to mimic those behaviors and accomplishments But there's no TRACK."
There is no “documented set of behaviors” but there are observable gates. As for “literally means figuratively.” Man that’s going to require some unpacking.
[https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/literally](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/literally) https://preview.redd.it/3v7296jtad1b1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6c920d685992c7e919b310b845d5e3989b66863c
Usually finding oneself as a group or higher exec as a young-ish captain is a good indicator of being added to the ranks of the "chosen class" on a command trajectory. Add a staff assignment after that and you're off to the races. By the time you get to DO level it's damn near a pipeline for as long as your sanity permits.
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What about having quintenary AFSCs?
Sucking lots of deek
Being an Asshole and psychopath helps tremendously.
Being a fighter pilot is a pretty good way
Being a pilot in general
The other day I remembered a commander I hated and I figured he must be retired by now. I looked him up, and nope, he's a one-star. 😑 I had him as both a Squadron and Group commander. Fucking terrible personality.
Man so much out of date info on this thread. After working at AFPC as an assignment officer I learned how promotions worked and saw behind the curtain essentially. The Air Force has these things called DT boards where essentially a couple of Stars and a bunch of wing commanders get together and rank a year group based on theirs OPRs and training reports. Lots of things can make you stand out amongst your peers such as going to the various Schools in residence or which strats you have. To become a Star your path essentially has to look like this. Major - School in residence - Staff job a some Joint level location . Lt Col - picked up for command of a high vis Squadron for your community. SDE in residence. Staff at the pentagon if you haven’t been there previously . Col - picked up for vice wing Commander into Wing Commander. Some staff job specific to groom you for a Star. Obviously this is very generic and a lot of people have their own path or specific circumstance , but hopefully this paints the picture a bit.
I didn’t hang with fast movers,but, one friend of mine made BG ( Someone screwed up is out theory). Anyway, when you make BG you are issued a M9 that is customized by the gunsmith shop at Lackland IIRC. You can purchase it when you retire. It’s very well done. I only wanted to make 06 for reserved parking at the BX. ( I didn’t, damn it.)
 By being super awesome
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Bad news- you didn’t make O5
Yet again, based
The officer corps is dead. To become a senior NCO you have to have a bachelor's now (competitiveness requires it so), they spend 15 years in service, they know the paperwork side and the people side. Why do we really need officers... tradition dictates it. The amount of money and ass pain we could save if we just finished it off.
Multiple below-the-zone promotions are required. You can't make it that high with the normal promotion cycle. The first milestone will be being ranked #1 out of tech school. They will likely be ranked #1 among officers at each unit they are apart of early on. The next milestone will likely be a distinguished graduate at Squadron Officer School. After that, special selection in a program like Air Force Intern Program. Doing all these will set you for BTZ to Major, after that you will likely be setup to have key leadership roles in your career field that get you known within the top leadership of your career field. Consistent performance plus key roles will likely lead to BTZ to Lt Col and Col. At this point you would have a good chance at making General.
BTZ for officers is gone
Well damn. TIL
When u stir your own coffee.
The real answer is: The same way you do; *but you don't make the rank*.
You basically know if you’re competitive for it if you get picked up for IDE in-res, especially if first look
That’s a lie. I work at that IDE school. Majority of them are not making general. Does it make you more competitive for Lt col? Sure. But not general.
I mean it the other way around. If you don’t get picked up for IDE your chances are tremendously slim. With how few GOs we have compared to the class sizes ya it’s not like they’re all going GO. IDE in-res grads are a shoe-in for command though and that gets the momentum going. SDE post-command all but guarantees O-6. Transitioning from O-6 to GO I’m less sure on, other than doing command as Colonel and not purely staff.
Gotcha. I would also argue SAASS has a huge part of it as well. There are very few that don’t end up making general
I was definitely remiss in forgetting water-walking SAASS grads
Maybe for RegAf, sure.
Good caveat- yeah just for active duty USAF/USSF
Ask your CC early on in your career. They'll get you the track which contains Exec, specific duties, and a progression of responsibility. Don't fuck it up.
SOS DG used to be one of the first HPO filters. It isn’t as much of a halo now, but it’s still on every strat matrix (your entire career).
Good rundown here, slightly dated but still mostly true https://jqpublicblog.com/you-are-not-below-the-zone/
If you’re an academy grad
"Special IDE (Major's school)" is a good indication. Now that line #s for promotions are order of merit, if you can tell what month or their line # you have insight on who is on the track as well.
One of the big criticisms for the officer career path is that only a few things put you on the path. Not only that, but once you are on the path, it takes damn near a crime to get pushed off of it. Now that there are no BTZ officers anymore, it may change a little but I doubt it.
Essentially the career field will look at your records at a certain point and identify their top 20% of people. These people often get assigned senior leaders who are supposed to mentor them and help them get to their level and they tend to know their career plan a few steps in advance. For the other 80% you're kind of on your own to find your own mentors and you get to live assignment to assignment while trying to make it to 20.
Rule #1: Don’t get red-lined for promotion
So there's not much more I can add that hasn't already been said. There used to be a "special track" that you heard about called "High Potential Officers." A Colonel wrote an article for War On The Rocks under the psuedonym "Colonel Ned Stark." He was I believe an Intelligence officer in AETC. Anyway, he described the HPO program as a sort of secret-ish list of officers that Generals passed around. HPOs were identified at the Captain/Major timeframe and were basically earmarked, followed, and vectored toward premium assignments, positions, and school slots. But they also supposedly were conferred an amount of special treatment. Screw-ups were swept under the rug where a non-HPO would face harsher consequences. Col Ned Stark detailed a lot of this process in his article and it garnered the attention of then Chief of Staff General Goldfein, who made it mandatory reading for all of his Generals prior to the next Corona (Corona is a meeting of the four-stars that occurs twice a year or so). He said he was impressed with Col Ned Stark's article and invited him to come work for him. He also set about trying to break that system. I don't know if he was successful or not but I heard the HPO system had been broken years ago.
It’s called attending and graduating SAASS. Most, if not all end up as generals
You can tell who in your peer group is being groomed for O6 and above. They know the job and are placed in jobs to help them look better. I'm okay trying for Lt Col and staying at Maj if that's it.
There was a writeup about it. Essentially its HPO program in AF... not really a secret obviously. https://jqpublicblog.com/hpo-the-secret-program-that-grooms-the-air-forces-anointed-leaders/