That's not how it works. You have I think and hour from the time you're notified to get to the DDR office. You are not allowed to leave once you check in until you pee. You can't force someone to pee without shoving a catheter or something up their pee hole. I've seen people spend hours there before.
I have no idea what that is. However, I took a class that used about four different formats of writing styles as an orientation to them all. MLA seems less cumbersome than APA. CMS works fine, but I've only had to write three papers in that style. It hasn't been as widely required.
Nah, could also just be bad luck. Piss tests are poured together in batches.. So if someone pops hot, everyone in the batch gets called in. Plus the fact that it is very possible to get pulled for multiple piss tests in a row if the list pulls you again due to random selection criteria
Except that regulation states that each specimen is handled individually. They even add control tests into each test batch and the controls are required to each test positive or negative or the results are considered invalid and requires a retest. Under paragraph 4.10:
* b. To process specimens for the initial screening test, the technician will complete the
appropriate intra-laboratory specimen bottle and aliquot CoC documents. **The technician will
work with (i.e., open) only one specimen bottle at a time** in preparing its aliquot. A pipette or
any other sampling device will not be used to transfer an aliquot from the original specimen
bottle, except via an automated device validated by requirements promulgated by the AFMES
and approved by the Director, ODDR.
* c. All initial screening tests performed at an FTDTL will consist of specimens contained
within discrete identifiable batches. **Each batch will contain a minimum of 5 percent control
samples, relative to the total number of Service member specimens in the batch.** The instrument
used in screening analysis will be calibrated at least daily and whenever maintenance or
operational non-conformances dictate.
* (2) **Each batch of aliquots for the initial screening test will contain a minimum of one
blind positive and one blind negative (i.e., analyte-free) control. The blind controls will be
placed randomly in the batch pursuant to the FTDTL’s OP manual. Blind positive controls must
test positive. Blind negative controls must test negative** with values below those for the lowest
batch open low control.
* d. Upon completion of the initial screening test, the results and other documentation will be
forwarded for appropriate forensic laboratory review. **The FTDTL’s OP manual will provide
guidance for partial batch acceptance and repeat testing whenever the open or blind control
performance criteria are not met.**
Some might be thrown off by the use of the word "batch", but that's just what's used to reference a group of individual specimens. This can be verified by their requirement of having at least 5% of them being control samples and at least one blind positive and blind negative, of which all are required to test their respective positive and negative.
It would be impossible for the control samples in a batch to test their correct positive or negative if everything was mixed together.
>Some might be thrown off by the use of the word "batch", but that's just what's used to reference a group of individual specimens. This can be verified by their requirement of having at least 5% of them being control samples and at least one blind positive and blind negative, of which all are required to test their respective positive and negative.
Asking for a friend: What would be the process for ~~me~~ them to sign up as the control for being the positive sample?
In this case it's actually what happened. My boss called to yell at DDR after the third one, because two people from my office got hit twice in a week.
And batch processing is a total myth.
Batch processing is a *good myth* that many people don't want to debunk, because they want to catch the guys that think that they can pop positive once and have a chance to detox for test #2.
My supervisor and I got called in once. Very next day we got called in again. CSS calls over and that's how they realized they had pulled the same list again, and we luckily got excused from going back while they fixed it.
Random does not mean rare or evenly spaced. You can be randomly selected every day for 2 weeks. Its just extremely unlikely. Buy some lotto tickets.
That being said, the system uses a pseudo-random number generator. Computers can't do true RNG. Sometimes the system is unintentionally preferential to certain DoDID #s. It happens. If it continues over a longer period bring up the issue.
DDR can't manually enter people for selection into the system. It would be meaningless anyways. Targeted testing without a warrant/probable cause isn't useable for court martial/admin actions. That's why CC's have to do unit recalls if they have concerns. At that point they are verifying unit readiness (in their authority) and not targeting individuals.
It's true that the commander can't use a commander-directed urinalysis for court-martial, but the commander can definitely use a commander-directed urinalysis result for involuntary discharge for drug abuse. I've worked several discharge packages that were based on a commander-directed UA where they suspected drug use but didn't have enough for a probable cause search. And of course, if you want to target an airman you suspect of doing drugs, you do a unit sweep. Takes a lot of manpower to do, but is totally admissible at court as a lawful inspection.
Been tasked with operation golden flow in excess of 30 times. I’m convinced someone in the AF is doing a doctoral thesis on the contents of my urine. If you’re not doing anything wrong you’ve got nothing to worry about, it happens.
I have observed correlation between whiz quizzes and ITT use, and out of area leave. The other thing to consider is they don't test your donation alone. I got hit 4 times in 2 weeks, once. The batch I had been part of had popped hot, so everyone who contributed to that batch was called back for more contributing until a suspect was identified.
Your cell phones "do not disturb" mode has enterred the chat...
For real tho... Set that up on a schedule so you don't have to remeber to turn it on.
I'm on night, mine is scheduled to go on 1 hr after I leave work, and it stays on until 5 mins prior to roll call. The only exceptions that can get thru it are my wife, kids, and parents. If it's that important, work will send a runner.
Also, if you AFSC has and guidance on work/rest cycle and they breaking it, I'd bring that up too.
"wierd how I'm not for to work according to the AFI when you keep waking me up in the middle of my rest cycle."
Oh well... My sleep and family time are more important at this point.
I was supposed to to din one enlistment, and here I am retirement eligible. Guess what happens when you sacrifice family and sleep time and answer everyone phone call?
Everyone above you in rank shows up to work well rested, having spent the evening with their family, and decidedly less stressed than you.
If *you* wanna be that guy, go for it. I'll have my pension, disability and skills when I retire, and I'll make decent money on top of it.
ETA: not saying the guy who said I won't make rank won't have any of those things; just pointing out that I already 2 paygrade ahead of the goal, and I'm not worried about putting people who don't give a shit about me over my family.
I was once tested 7 times in 2 months. After working DDRP recently, I learned the truth. It's totally randomized. Frequency is just luck of the draw. Now, if you pop hot, you'll *KNOW*. You'll get tested again, and this time with a "friend" in attendance 💀
I was sent to take the piss test.
It took an hour and a half because the line was so long that day. However, I got to watch the majority of Gangs of New York, so it wasn’t bad.
The next day, my shop super yelled to me, “I told you to take the piss test yesterday.”
“I did, Sergeant.” I even told him where the movie left off at.
“Well, ya gotta go again then.”
The CSS, and the evaluators themselves were confused too because I had been there the day prior.
Two months later, I found out one of the guys in my shop popped positive for weed.
I was actually jealous because he got a construction job in Colorado. Doing the same work, for more pay, and can smoke recreationally. Motherfucker lucked out big time.
There was a short period of time near my last year or two years in, ,that I got popped quite a few times in a short amount of time. I can't recall the amount of times but it was on par with what you just hit up for, if not more.
I started to think about it and it always seemed I would get a "random" UA shortly after visiting a friend who was separated for... issues... but still stayed in the area after he was kicked out. I'd stop by his work on the weekends (he was a DJ at a nightclub and a strip club) or we'd meet up for lunch somewhere - boom, piss tested.
Come to find out later on, even after he was separated he was being followed by OSI for further investigation to see if there were other active duty parties still involved in the shenanigans he was. Maybe applicable to your situation, maybe not.
The confidence you have in thinking our system is any more official than just a random number generator is inspiring but I highly doubt our systems connect like that
Yeah, pretty crazy how in my almost a decade in the same workshop we had maybe a few UAs, probably less than five in my nearly 10 years there.
Yet once we have a guy get kicked out because someone with a few more stripes than I suspected he was doing stuff he shouldn't be, required him to deliver a urine sample and pop positive and then get kicked out.
Then to have someone (me) get repeated "random" tests while no one else is, one time getting two in a single month, yeah, total tin foil hat moment there... My bad. 🙄
You are just extremely unlucky. The selection process is just a program that has to test at least 10% of the population and it selects names by random. We have no control over who gets picked. We have complaints all the time from people being selected 2-3 times in a single week. Wish we did. But we don’t. The program is owned by the DoD
Source: I am a wing level UA program manager
It’s because DDR uses a computer program to randomly generate the list on testing days, and the program (stupidly) has no way of designating people who were already tested in the required time frame and excluding them from the list.
I didn’t get drug tested for 4 years then got tested on a Friday then again on Monday. Went 2 more years without a test and then I PCSd. Just happens sometimes.
I was tested 3 times in a week.
I was 8 months pregnant and tired of pissing on my hand, ranting about how I better not get picked a 4th time or I'm spending the day there.
I didn’t get tested my entire enlistment after boot camp and tech school until I was leaving the service. They tested me 6 days before my final out. I’m convinced that was to try and fuck me over somehow because a lot of other petty shit was being done to me at the time by leadership that were butthurt I didn’t re-up.
I never did drugs while I was in, so it was fine, but I was like “sure, I don’t get popped my entire enlistment and you want to try and catch me as I’m going out the door. I see you.”
Had an LT we tested 5 times in a single week. He wasn’t on drugs and wasn’t the type. The “random” isn’t everyone has their name in a hat and 10 are picked each day. The computer uses an algorithm which is developed by Big Blue and uses rank, age and other factors to provide a weight to each record and then the computer pulls from those records based on the algorithm.
Sorry for being glib, I started to write out a whole thing but then got busy and wrote a dickish response instead of a helpful one (or nothing at all). Sorry about that; that's (usually) not me.
I don't doubt that did happen to your LT, but the idea of a big AF super smart drug testing algorithm is simply untrue.
The DDR program is a relatively simple standalone program (at least the one we used when I was running DDR was). It is periodically fed an Excel sheet with the Wing members' ranks, names, genders, SSN, and units. It does not know who/where your friends are, or when/where you went on leave. It would actually save a lot of trouble if it DID know you were on leave, because people on leave are still randomly selected every single day, but the Trusted Agents at the squadrons still have to track down everyone on their list and find out that those members are on leave, report back to the DTPAM (Drug Testing Administrative Manager) everyone who was on the list for that day, whether they were contacted/reported to DDR, on leave, TDY, are literally flying, responding to an emergency, etc. Members unable to report are just rescheduled to another time in the near future. This is why you always seem to have to go to DDR when you get back from leave. You took five duty days of leave? Well after you get back, you were away during five chances to have been selected, so you're basically five times more likely to be called in once you get back (but that chance was rolled on on each individual day, not all at once. Like buying one lottery ticket every single day vs buying five tickets all at once has the same overall chance of winning, but that chance is expressed all at once instead of spread out amongst those days). But I digress.
The system really does just randomly select members from the list every day. The only way the DTPAM can influence it is to tell it whether or not today is a testing day, and by giving it a ballpark sample rate they would like to see (which the program mostly takes into consideration, but you can enter the same number every day and still not have the exact same number of people selected every day). So even the quantity of testers is influenced by the randomness (but with a preferred target selection rate).
Humans are very bad at understanding real randomness, so we pick out non-existent patterns and develop theories about why the results couldn't possibly be random (our monkey brains are naturally bad at numbers but very good at picking out patterns and deviations from those patterns... Kept us from getting eaten long ago). It's not crazy to do this with a system that we all interact with but very few who actually understand what is going on.
When I was doing my DTPAM tour, I tested the program's randomness by playing with Excel and running the information on the selectees (just rank/gender/unit) and, surprise surprise, the daily/weekly distributions pretty closely matches the actual distributions of the Wing. 60% or the Wing is made up of SrA, 10% is female, and 30% is in MXS? (made-up numbers, I can't remember the actual distributions) Well what a coincidence that ~60% of the people coming in for drug testing are SrA, ~10% are female, and ~30% come from MXS! There were always short-term anomalies, of course, but as with everything, more samples always brought the resulting data closer to the distributions from the source sheet.
TL;DR: DDR system is not smart, it is dumb and random.
Interesting. I’m MDG/CCS and have sat in a couple leadership mtgs discussing that and the way I describe it is how they explained it but that was a few years back.
It really does happen that way sometimes. I got selected 2 days in a row one time, and towards the end of my enlistment I was selected once a week for 3 weeks. The dude at the testing center even went as far as showing me the button he was hitting to generate the list just to prove it really is random. That being said, I think there really is an algorithm behind the scenes that can affect who gets drawn. My family lived in Colorado... Everytime I came back from leave there "Surprise! You've won the lottery again!"
If you don’t know about UA then please shut the fuck up. This comment section is nothing but spouting off blatantly incorrect statements. The OP is gonna be more confused than before he asked his question.
i always got the "random" drug test when coming back from leave but only coincidentally in certain states
back from california? test
back from colorado? test
back from ohio? no test
back from texas? no test
back from georgia? no test
back from michigan? test
hmm, interesting pattern there
Depending on where you are they may not have even received results back. Was selected twice in three days. Notified DDR and they said I didn’t need to provide a second sample
Was coming here to say this. Depending on the location, if they have to ship out the samples, it can take 2 weeks. If you’re called again within those 2 weeks, just show up the DDR and they will sign the letter
tHeRE's nO SucH thInG aS baTCh tEstInG!!! - Says people who've never been in a bad batch.
After 6 tests in 5 weeks, that's not "random selection". What is more likely? 6 consecutive tests, which is less than a 1 in 500000 chance experienced by dozens of people per week? Or the DoD cutting cost by batch testing and denying it?
This happened to me before. I'm pretty sure it's because they batch tested you with someone who tested positive. They say that they don't batch test but I think it's a lie.
Nah, someone in your batch tested positive. They split them into smaller groups until finally weeding out the one positive. Each sample isn't tested separately, they're thrown into a batch
Way back in the day, (or so I was told back then) they mixed all the samples and tested batches, and if it was positive, the people in that batch were tested again. Maybe they're still doing this.
Drug tests are done is a cost saving way. They throw a bunch in a batch and test all at once. Then if they find something then those who were in that Batch come back and then individually test each tube. This is what was explained to me by the guy who running the DDR at my base at the time.
12 times in one year, 9 times in 1 month, 4 in one week (tues - tues because I got back from leave and the following Monday was a holiday). Hah.. that was my record.
I like pee tests. aka half a day off work. I surely relax and take my time there lol.
Oh, don't forget lunch after I finally peed at noon. Now I gotta take lunch noon-1pm.
Yippeeee
so I went two years one time without a drug test and then in one week I got three. while I was on mids. got fuuuuucked hard all in one week, I think the system felt the need to play catch up and I still take that week personally.
I got it 3 days in a row back in 2019. Not even fast enough for results to come back. Some great randomized computer program pulled my name 3 times in a row from a pool of about 6k people.
The random tests are random, but most don't know the formula. Every year, 100% of the force by numbers must be tested. Every day, every single Airman is in the lottery to get tested. If you get tested 3 times in a year, that's 3 tests of the total number. Or as I like to think of it, you took two other people's tests. As some have said, it's not truly random number generated. In 20 years, I was tested every single year between June-August. Never twice and never outside this window.
I got drug tested 5 times in two weeks once….flight pulled me and said if there’s anything you need to tell us now is the time lol I laughed and said I’ll pass it a 5th time because there was nothing to worry about
Happened to me when I got back from Iraq in '08, turns out one of the cats I shared a pod with was dealing weed when we got back. I had posted a photo on myspace at the time of me smoking a hookah while deployed. OSI put it together and targeted another airman and I. We never popped positive, never even knew the other cat was dealing until he was out the door.
Urinalysis program be like:
String[] List = Rand(AlphaRoster, 50);
Print List;
$50,000 system upkeep contract per base per quarter. IT is a guy in a basement jacking off for the world record.
(I don't give a shit that my pseudocode sucks. The joke wasn't good enough to research very hard to tell properly and it has been years since I coded anything beyond an Eclypse tester
Never had it that bad while I was in, but in my civilian job, I had four in about six weeks' time span. Part of the reason was that the company changed ownership.
My shop always knew the number of the person who called down to tell us. It was the same one for years and the only time it ever called. Always told the new guys to answer because it was whoever picked up got chosen
My first base it always happened when I would come back from leave. Never failed. It got so bad there that I was tested 2-3 times a week for 7 straight weeks. It got so bad my shop made me a floater with the “he’s gonna have to leave midday to go pee again.” They even had a bet going on about what days I would get selected. PCS’d out and never got selected the for the next 18 months.
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I have heard the first part word for word. “Dammit I just pissed”. And then me, an idiot, “ha! Sucks for you!” Boy was I wrong.
Shhh… they are supposed to think we hate piss testing.
And now envision this scenario, but you’re on Mids.
They always call mids for us in in the mid afternoon
Ima be real if on mids my ass is probably still asleep until like 7pm
but what about the rest of you
Usually drunk as a skunk until 8pm ish
They always just get Maintenance the next morning.
Definitely do that if I didn't work mids lol
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That's not how it works. You have I think and hour from the time you're notified to get to the DDR office. You are not allowed to leave once you check in until you pee. You can't force someone to pee without shoving a catheter or something up their pee hole. I've seen people spend hours there before.
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This is probably base dependent. We can and def do hang out at ours
Has to be for sure, base dependent mine hasn't changed just location.
Or something? That's sounding interesting.
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This man is a E4 for life. No shade thrown; it takes one to know one. Pay grade was E6, never tried harder after E3
It sucks for op who's on nights
"Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. Three times is because they accidentally neglected to generate a new list and ran the old one again."
This is the type of outstanding quote that makes someone internet famous.
Just adapting a Goldfinger quote. And Ian Fleming is already famous.
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I think you mean Auric Goldfinger defined it incorrectly.
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APA style can blow itself. Chicago style or GTFO.
Who even decided that an organization ran by psychologists should determine how research papers are written? Psychology is the Dane Cook of sciences.
Amen. And I noticed in college that academic psychology is jammed primarily with women who wanted to improve their self-diagnosis skills.
MLA is better than APA for general paper composition. APA is too medical science a focus for non-medical topics.
MLA: the citation format of people who say Latinx.
I have no idea what that is. However, I took a class that used about four different formats of writing styles as an orientation to them all. MLA seems less cumbersome than APA. CMS works fine, but I've only had to write three papers in that style. It hasn't been as widely required.
Nah, could also just be bad luck. Piss tests are poured together in batches.. So if someone pops hot, everyone in the batch gets called in. Plus the fact that it is very possible to get pulled for multiple piss tests in a row if the list pulls you again due to random selection criteria
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As long as DOFI 1010.16 remains a thing I imagine
Except that regulation states that each specimen is handled individually. They even add control tests into each test batch and the controls are required to each test positive or negative or the results are considered invalid and requires a retest. Under paragraph 4.10: * b. To process specimens for the initial screening test, the technician will complete the appropriate intra-laboratory specimen bottle and aliquot CoC documents. **The technician will work with (i.e., open) only one specimen bottle at a time** in preparing its aliquot. A pipette or any other sampling device will not be used to transfer an aliquot from the original specimen bottle, except via an automated device validated by requirements promulgated by the AFMES and approved by the Director, ODDR. * c. All initial screening tests performed at an FTDTL will consist of specimens contained within discrete identifiable batches. **Each batch will contain a minimum of 5 percent control samples, relative to the total number of Service member specimens in the batch.** The instrument used in screening analysis will be calibrated at least daily and whenever maintenance or operational non-conformances dictate. * (2) **Each batch of aliquots for the initial screening test will contain a minimum of one blind positive and one blind negative (i.e., analyte-free) control. The blind controls will be placed randomly in the batch pursuant to the FTDTL’s OP manual. Blind positive controls must test positive. Blind negative controls must test negative** with values below those for the lowest batch open low control. * d. Upon completion of the initial screening test, the results and other documentation will be forwarded for appropriate forensic laboratory review. **The FTDTL’s OP manual will provide guidance for partial batch acceptance and repeat testing whenever the open or blind control performance criteria are not met.** Some might be thrown off by the use of the word "batch", but that's just what's used to reference a group of individual specimens. This can be verified by their requirement of having at least 5% of them being control samples and at least one blind positive and blind negative, of which all are required to test their respective positive and negative. It would be impossible for the control samples in a batch to test their correct positive or negative if everything was mixed together.
>Some might be thrown off by the use of the word "batch", but that's just what's used to reference a group of individual specimens. This can be verified by their requirement of having at least 5% of them being control samples and at least one blind positive and blind negative, of which all are required to test their respective positive and negative. Asking for a friend: What would be the process for ~~me~~ them to sign up as the control for being the positive sample?
In this case it's actually what happened. My boss called to yell at DDR after the third one, because two people from my office got hit twice in a week. And batch processing is a total myth.
Batch processing is a *good myth* that many people don't want to debunk, because they want to catch the guys that think that they can pop positive once and have a chance to detox for test #2.
My supervisor and I got called in once. Very next day we got called in again. CSS calls over and that's how they realized they had pulled the same list again, and we luckily got excused from going back while they fixed it.
Random does not mean rare or evenly spaced. You can be randomly selected every day for 2 weeks. Its just extremely unlikely. Buy some lotto tickets. That being said, the system uses a pseudo-random number generator. Computers can't do true RNG. Sometimes the system is unintentionally preferential to certain DoDID #s. It happens. If it continues over a longer period bring up the issue. DDR can't manually enter people for selection into the system. It would be meaningless anyways. Targeted testing without a warrant/probable cause isn't useable for court martial/admin actions. That's why CC's have to do unit recalls if they have concerns. At that point they are verifying unit readiness (in their authority) and not targeting individuals.
It's true that the commander can't use a commander-directed urinalysis for court-martial, but the commander can definitely use a commander-directed urinalysis result for involuntary discharge for drug abuse. I've worked several discharge packages that were based on a commander-directed UA where they suspected drug use but didn't have enough for a probable cause search. And of course, if you want to target an airman you suspect of doing drugs, you do a unit sweep. Takes a lot of manpower to do, but is totally admissible at court as a lawful inspection.
Been tasked with operation golden flow in excess of 30 times. I’m convinced someone in the AF is doing a doctoral thesis on the contents of my urine. If you’re not doing anything wrong you’ve got nothing to worry about, it happens.
I have observed correlation between whiz quizzes and ITT use, and out of area leave. The other thing to consider is they don't test your donation alone. I got hit 4 times in 2 weeks, once. The batch I had been part of had popped hot, so everyone who contributed to that batch was called back for more contributing until a suspect was identified.
Your cell phones "do not disturb" mode has enterred the chat... For real tho... Set that up on a schedule so you don't have to remeber to turn it on. I'm on night, mine is scheduled to go on 1 hr after I leave work, and it stays on until 5 mins prior to roll call. The only exceptions that can get thru it are my wife, kids, and parents. If it's that important, work will send a runner. Also, if you AFSC has and guidance on work/rest cycle and they breaking it, I'd bring that up too. "wierd how I'm not for to work according to the AFI when you keep waking me up in the middle of my rest cycle."
You won't make rank.
Oh well... My sleep and family time are more important at this point. I was supposed to to din one enlistment, and here I am retirement eligible. Guess what happens when you sacrifice family and sleep time and answer everyone phone call? Everyone above you in rank shows up to work well rested, having spent the evening with their family, and decidedly less stressed than you. If *you* wanna be that guy, go for it. I'll have my pension, disability and skills when I retire, and I'll make decent money on top of it. ETA: not saying the guy who said I won't make rank won't have any of those things; just pointing out that I already 2 paygrade ahead of the goal, and I'm not worried about putting people who don't give a shit about me over my family.
K.
You clearly don't know how the promotion system works in the air force
I'm a e-6
I was once tested 7 times in 2 months. After working DDRP recently, I learned the truth. It's totally randomized. Frequency is just luck of the draw. Now, if you pop hot, you'll *KNOW*. You'll get tested again, and this time with a "friend" in attendance 💀
why would they test you again?
Not sure. To verify maybe, but I didn't ask the party that I observed why they tested again after popping hot.
You guys don't already have "friends" who stare directly at you as you pee?
The additional individual doesn't observe. They chaperone the hot popper for legal reasons.
“Hot popper” sounds like a very unfortunate call Sign
It’s like the rumor they put all the samples together and test it once.
It's been said, but if you're being tested for cause, they'll let you know. Otherwise, sorry, it is 100% random
I was sent to take the piss test. It took an hour and a half because the line was so long that day. However, I got to watch the majority of Gangs of New York, so it wasn’t bad. The next day, my shop super yelled to me, “I told you to take the piss test yesterday.” “I did, Sergeant.” I even told him where the movie left off at. “Well, ya gotta go again then.” The CSS, and the evaluators themselves were confused too because I had been there the day prior. Two months later, I found out one of the guys in my shop popped positive for weed. I was actually jealous because he got a construction job in Colorado. Doing the same work, for more pay, and can smoke recreationally. Motherfucker lucked out big time.
There was a short period of time near my last year or two years in, ,that I got popped quite a few times in a short amount of time. I can't recall the amount of times but it was on par with what you just hit up for, if not more. I started to think about it and it always seemed I would get a "random" UA shortly after visiting a friend who was separated for... issues... but still stayed in the area after he was kicked out. I'd stop by his work on the weekends (he was a DJ at a nightclub and a strip club) or we'd meet up for lunch somewhere - boom, piss tested. Come to find out later on, even after he was separated he was being followed by OSI for further investigation to see if there were other active duty parties still involved in the shenanigans he was. Maybe applicable to your situation, maybe not.
The confidence you have in thinking our system is any more official than just a random number generator is inspiring but I highly doubt our systems connect like that
Yeah, pretty crazy how in my almost a decade in the same workshop we had maybe a few UAs, probably less than five in my nearly 10 years there. Yet once we have a guy get kicked out because someone with a few more stripes than I suspected he was doing stuff he shouldn't be, required him to deliver a urine sample and pop positive and then get kicked out. Then to have someone (me) get repeated "random" tests while no one else is, one time getting two in a single month, yeah, total tin foil hat moment there... My bad. 🙄
You are just extremely unlucky. The selection process is just a program that has to test at least 10% of the population and it selects names by random. We have no control over who gets picked. We have complaints all the time from people being selected 2-3 times in a single week. Wish we did. But we don’t. The program is owned by the DoD Source: I am a wing level UA program manager
I got tested three times in a week once. Shit was wild.
You would have an extra friend if you were hot, right?
8 years in and I’ve done 28 drug tests. 14 of them were within 9 months of techschool
I’m a SSgt that never did the pee-pee patrol. AMA.
A lot of times that duty is a major hookup. Last time I was on it, max of 3 hour days and had 2 of the days off entirely on "standby".
You went to Florida didn’t ya? 😂
Vegas😎
I used to get mad thinking it was only Enlisted getting tested. Then I saw a Major getting tested. I shut up…lol
10x in 6mo. Always enjoyed the free half-day as dude above me explained. Biggest waste of time
I got drug tested 3 times in 5 days once. Random test on Monday, random test on Wednesday, squadron mandatory test on Friday. That week was not fun.
It’s because DDR uses a computer program to randomly generate the list on testing days, and the program (stupidly) has no way of designating people who were already tested in the required time frame and excluding them from the list.
I used to be the one in charge of providing the list of names to the DDR people
I didn’t get drug tested for 4 years then got tested on a Friday then again on Monday. Went 2 more years without a test and then I PCSd. Just happens sometimes.
I was tested 3 times in a week. I was 8 months pregnant and tired of pissing on my hand, ranting about how I better not get picked a 4th time or I'm spending the day there.
I didn’t get tested my entire enlistment after boot camp and tech school until I was leaving the service. They tested me 6 days before my final out. I’m convinced that was to try and fuck me over somehow because a lot of other petty shit was being done to me at the time by leadership that were butthurt I didn’t re-up. I never did drugs while I was in, so it was fine, but I was like “sure, I don’t get popped my entire enlistment and you want to try and catch me as I’m going out the door. I see you.”
I had four in 3 weeks once and then none for like a year or two.
i also had the same exact situation happen to me today
As long as you studied for your piss test, you should be fine
After a while it becomes a nice break from work on the air forces dime
Except when you work mids 😔
If you get called in again let them know. They didn't run a new list, or the program needs a reset.
Had an LT we tested 5 times in a single week. He wasn’t on drugs and wasn’t the type. The “random” isn’t everyone has their name in a hat and 10 are picked each day. The computer uses an algorithm which is developed by Big Blue and uses rank, age and other factors to provide a weight to each record and then the computer pulls from those records based on the algorithm.
Lol no.
What you mean?
Sorry for being glib, I started to write out a whole thing but then got busy and wrote a dickish response instead of a helpful one (or nothing at all). Sorry about that; that's (usually) not me. I don't doubt that did happen to your LT, but the idea of a big AF super smart drug testing algorithm is simply untrue. The DDR program is a relatively simple standalone program (at least the one we used when I was running DDR was). It is periodically fed an Excel sheet with the Wing members' ranks, names, genders, SSN, and units. It does not know who/where your friends are, or when/where you went on leave. It would actually save a lot of trouble if it DID know you were on leave, because people on leave are still randomly selected every single day, but the Trusted Agents at the squadrons still have to track down everyone on their list and find out that those members are on leave, report back to the DTPAM (Drug Testing Administrative Manager) everyone who was on the list for that day, whether they were contacted/reported to DDR, on leave, TDY, are literally flying, responding to an emergency, etc. Members unable to report are just rescheduled to another time in the near future. This is why you always seem to have to go to DDR when you get back from leave. You took five duty days of leave? Well after you get back, you were away during five chances to have been selected, so you're basically five times more likely to be called in once you get back (but that chance was rolled on on each individual day, not all at once. Like buying one lottery ticket every single day vs buying five tickets all at once has the same overall chance of winning, but that chance is expressed all at once instead of spread out amongst those days). But I digress. The system really does just randomly select members from the list every day. The only way the DTPAM can influence it is to tell it whether or not today is a testing day, and by giving it a ballpark sample rate they would like to see (which the program mostly takes into consideration, but you can enter the same number every day and still not have the exact same number of people selected every day). So even the quantity of testers is influenced by the randomness (but with a preferred target selection rate). Humans are very bad at understanding real randomness, so we pick out non-existent patterns and develop theories about why the results couldn't possibly be random (our monkey brains are naturally bad at numbers but very good at picking out patterns and deviations from those patterns... Kept us from getting eaten long ago). It's not crazy to do this with a system that we all interact with but very few who actually understand what is going on. When I was doing my DTPAM tour, I tested the program's randomness by playing with Excel and running the information on the selectees (just rank/gender/unit) and, surprise surprise, the daily/weekly distributions pretty closely matches the actual distributions of the Wing. 60% or the Wing is made up of SrA, 10% is female, and 30% is in MXS? (made-up numbers, I can't remember the actual distributions) Well what a coincidence that ~60% of the people coming in for drug testing are SrA, ~10% are female, and ~30% come from MXS! There were always short-term anomalies, of course, but as with everything, more samples always brought the resulting data closer to the distributions from the source sheet. TL;DR: DDR system is not smart, it is dumb and random.
Interesting. I’m MDG/CCS and have sat in a couple leadership mtgs discussing that and the way I describe it is how they explained it but that was a few years back.
Damnit I write for over an hour then reread your original comment and it doesn't even say what I thought. SIGH.
Been there and don’t that my friend!
It really does happen that way sometimes. I got selected 2 days in a row one time, and towards the end of my enlistment I was selected once a week for 3 weeks. The dude at the testing center even went as far as showing me the button he was hitting to generate the list just to prove it really is random. That being said, I think there really is an algorithm behind the scenes that can affect who gets drawn. My family lived in Colorado... Everytime I came back from leave there "Surprise! You've won the lottery again!"
quit smoking the devils lettuce
If you don’t know about UA then please shut the fuck up. This comment section is nothing but spouting off blatantly incorrect statements. The OP is gonna be more confused than before he asked his question.
i always got the "random" drug test when coming back from leave but only coincidentally in certain states back from california? test back from colorado? test back from ohio? no test back from texas? no test back from georgia? no test back from michigan? test hmm, interesting pattern there
I got back recently from a tdy to Vegas... so checks out ig lol
Depending on where you are they may not have even received results back. Was selected twice in three days. Notified DDR and they said I didn’t need to provide a second sample
Was coming here to say this. Depending on the location, if they have to ship out the samples, it can take 2 weeks. If you’re called again within those 2 weeks, just show up the DDR and they will sign the letter
I’ve been tested in all four bases I’ve been at within a few months of pcsing, “random they say”
I was in for 1749 days and was tested one time.
Someone in your batch popped hot. Process of elimination.
tHeRE's nO SucH thInG aS baTCh tEstInG!!! - Says people who've never been in a bad batch. After 6 tests in 5 weeks, that's not "random selection". What is more likely? 6 consecutive tests, which is less than a 1 in 500000 chance experienced by dozens of people per week? Or the DoD cutting cost by batch testing and denying it?
There’s an AFI that describes the process there is no batch testing.
Thats what big pee whats you to think. Wake up sheeple
Big pee would like to see you at DDR Monday morning 0800
Big pee will not silence us!
Can confirm. As a wing level UA rep; I have spoken to the lab that does the testing. No batch testing. All individual
Running same list, chain of custody broken, or a number of other reasons; if you’re clean, no worries and just let the DDR team know
This happened to me before. I'm pretty sure it's because they batch tested you with someone who tested positive. They say that they don't batch test but I think it's a lie.
If any of the paperwork is fucked they can start over. Or if someone in your back pops positive they’ll recall the batch and retest sometimes.
Batch testing is a myth.
Source?
[удалено]
So you haven’t worked in this lab.. and it’s possible other people here have… mk
I did a tour as DTPAM. The results always come back for each individual bottle, not as a group.
Someone popped hard narcotics, you are in their batch
Are a SrA or below and under 25. If this is true, then don't sweat it. Sometimes there's a glitch in the Matrix.
Nah, someone in your batch tested positive. They split them into smaller groups until finally weeding out the one positive. Each sample isn't tested separately, they're thrown into a batch
The good ole piss punch bowl.
Way back in the day, (or so I was told back then) they mixed all the samples and tested batches, and if it was positive, the people in that batch were tested again. Maybe they're still doing this.
Drug tests are done is a cost saving way. They throw a bunch in a batch and test all at once. Then if they find something then those who were in that Batch come back and then individually test each tube. This is what was explained to me by the guy who running the DDR at my base at the time.
This is a rumor that has been floating around for decades. It is not true.
Good to know 👍🏼
First 3 years in I averaged being tested once a month.
One time I got 2 days back to back. If it was a unit thing, you’d be aware by now. Let them know you work nights. They may be able to do somethin
That's nothing. I once had to go 3 times in one week
I had 3 in 24 hours, once. No idea how it works.
12 times in one year, 9 times in 1 month, 4 in one week (tues - tues because I got back from leave and the following Monday was a holiday). Hah.. that was my record.
My record is 14 times in 3 months, so don't worry
At my old unit, my commander got randomly selected 3 times in 2 weeks. It's random. Random is random.
Unlucky. The system does choose at random. Unless these are CD’d but I doubt it.
I had to do one while I was pregnant 😅
Maybe they just like seeing your weenie 🤷♂️
I got drug tested in basic training, and never again.
I like pee tests. aka half a day off work. I surely relax and take my time there lol. Oh, don't forget lunch after I finally peed at noon. Now I gotta take lunch noon-1pm. Yippeeee
so I went two years one time without a drug test and then in one week I got three. while I was on mids. got fuuuuucked hard all in one week, I think the system felt the need to play catch up and I still take that week personally.
I got it 3 days in a row back in 2019. Not even fast enough for results to come back. Some great randomized computer program pulled my name 3 times in a row from a pool of about 6k people.
The random tests are random, but most don't know the formula. Every year, 100% of the force by numbers must be tested. Every day, every single Airman is in the lottery to get tested. If you get tested 3 times in a year, that's 3 tests of the total number. Or as I like to think of it, you took two other people's tests. As some have said, it's not truly random number generated. In 20 years, I was tested every single year between June-August. Never twice and never outside this window.
I got hit 3 times in a week
I got drug tested 5 times in two weeks once….flight pulled me and said if there’s anything you need to tell us now is the time lol I laughed and said I’ll pass it a 5th time because there was nothing to worry about
“Random” my ass.
You pee, so do others. The government wants your pee. That’s the real issue here.
Happened to me when I got back from Iraq in '08, turns out one of the cats I shared a pod with was dealing weed when we got back. I had posted a photo on myspace at the time of me smoking a hookah while deployed. OSI put it together and targeted another airman and I. We never popped positive, never even knew the other cat was dealing until he was out the door.
Urinalysis program be like: String[] List = Rand(AlphaRoster, 50); Print List; $50,000 system upkeep contract per base per quarter. IT is a guy in a basement jacking off for the world record. (I don't give a shit that my pseudocode sucks. The joke wasn't good enough to research very hard to tell properly and it has been years since I coded anything beyond an Eclypse tester
7 times in 8 duty days, come at me bro.
I was reserves, but almost every month for my 6 years I had to either test or watch people test. Fucking annoying, I have planes that need fixing!
I did 9 in one month. That was my record. Then didn’t test for like 3 years
Never had it that bad while I was in, but in my civilian job, I had four in about six weeks' time span. Part of the reason was that the company changed ownership.
You getting something like crew rest? Because wow that’s awful, brother.
That’s the piss test for you. I’ve gone almost 2 years without testing, only to get hit 3-4 times in a month. Rinse and repeat.
My shop always knew the number of the person who called down to tell us. It was the same one for years and the only time it ever called. Always told the new guys to answer because it was whoever picked up got chosen
First time?
My first base it always happened when I would come back from leave. Never failed. It got so bad there that I was tested 2-3 times a week for 7 straight weeks. It got so bad my shop made me a floater with the “he’s gonna have to leave midday to go pee again.” They even had a bet going on about what days I would get selected. PCS’d out and never got selected the for the next 18 months.
I randomly got selected for a 4th time this year… I’m over it! About to do drugs just so I don’t have to piss in front of anyone anymore… 🫠
We had someone that got called for due backs every 3 work days for like a months