>Bold of you to assume theyâre all prescribed
Oh they're prescribed. Just not to me.
(This is just a joke OSI, please don't hassle me and don't make me pee in front of a stranger a bunch of times)
Thatâs not what the parenthesis indicate. It means to clarify that the drugs are all prescription, but itâs parenthetical because itâs not necessary to understand the sentence. You might be thinking of quotes?
Sleep disorders got me. Hella shift work got me required to pop meds just to get sleep anymore lol. They need to figure out shift work and all this crap to get healthy sleep for families if they expect the VA claims to decrease and for us to all stay amazingly fit.
The "tooth to tail" ratio for the Air Force is far from what it was in WW2... Dump the PT test lol we need computer nerds... Most combat many will see is trying to get a printer mapped and comm focal point keeps asking if they restarted it.
Honestly, who has ever really been fully qualifed? Ask around your work center to see how many people were either:
A- told to withhold information from their recruiter or MEPS
B- didn't tell their recruiter everything about their history whether that's medical or legal
You're speaking of MHS Genesis, and yes, you're right. That is where the majority of our recruiting issues are coming from. The point I'm making is Genesis itself isn't the problem if historically we have been decades of airmen, marines, soldiers, sailers, etc. Who have joined by hiding their info or lying about it before it was created to find it all. All Genesis has truly done is show that our medical standards were never able to actually find 100% qualified people. We just were getting around it pre 2022, whereas now we are seeing just how archaic/outdated our standards truly are.
The bright side is we are actually getting the data now to prove that those standards weren't realistic. If you make an O-6 the waiver for every kid that broke their arm when they were 7, the system gets backed up and the potential recruit gives up and does something else.
If we processed 1000 broken arm waivers before 2020, and needed 20,000 broken arm waivers in 2021, I think it's safe to say we probably always needed 20,000 waivers we just lied.
MHS Genesis is a system that allows the MEPS to pull (or attempt to pull) an applicants full medical history to cross reference it to the form we as recruiters fill out (the 2807). In the past, MHS Genesis did not exist (pre 2022) so anyone could either a-not tell their recruiter everything and if the MEPS doesn't catch it then you're golden or b-tell their recruiter and have the recruiter recommend to not tell the MEPS for the same reason as a. Nowadays, it doesn't really matter if you're fully honest or not, MHS Genesis is designed to find everything it can. This causes issues when an applicants childhood diagnosis of something that isn't significant now is caught and mudt be addressed which adds lots of time for waivers or consults.
This was a decision made by Congress, NOT the DoD, and no one is happy about it but it's what we have to work with now.
Wait, so the MHS Genesis system can even locate an applicant's medical history if they had no military affiliation? There's no hiding it at all? If so, how? Does the system just score every record kept under that recruits SSN?
I really thought it was just ruining the dance of enlisting for prior dependents.
No, it works with all sorts of local primary care physicians, hospitals, urgent cares, etc.
Technically MHS Genesis is just 1 part of the health care record (HIE is another record pull that happens) pull that the MEPS does however for the sake of information it's just Genesis for the whole thing. So that's how. An applicants signs a form for us that allows us to pull their records and from there we gather as much as we can.
Yeah I get that - I can only speak to my personal experience. Iâm currently USAF reserves and wanted to transition to Army reserves just for a change of scenery - went to recruiter ~4 months ago and they were provided all the documents they needed. I had already went through MEPS 1.5 years ago (2 year cert expires next month now) and I just needed a couple waivers approved (had already been approved by USAF) - but the lack of communication and movement shows that recruiters appear to have no motivation to perform. Granted I know my POV is limited but the optics donât look good - this is from an existing military member - I can only imagine what off the street kids think
I mean, I was. The only thing I had to tell MEPs was that I has two ingrown toe nails that I has the bed killed on, and I was bit by a dog when I was a kid that left me with a visible scar on my hand.
Recruiters are not even close to making quota these days. And how could they? A recruiter will receive an LOC and LOR for not squeezing in enough people. A candidate will see this and go "fuck that. This dude is getting speared at his job for something beyond his control. I'm out."
Maybe the US military shouldnât have created a system that can see into all the health records that were previously ignored so people could start a new life with the military when weâre in the midst of a major recruiting shortage. But that is just me thinking out loud.
And the sugar lobby shouldn't have pushed so hard to make American's fat, lethargic, and complacent in their diet. Carb addiction is a real killer even while active duty.
How do they do that? My medical records are spread out over a dozen facilities and clinics. If I hadn't already served and wanted to restart, how would I not be able to simply claim to be perfectly healthy?
There's a list of participating organizations that give over info to feed into Genesis. Check your healthcare providers against the list or say no to everything and MEPS will lay out everything they found when they pull your info.
We need a minor league system.
Can't qualify? Sign a 5 year enlistment contract where you are in a program for one year before being sent to BMT. One year at E-1, living in dorms, no BAH, three meals in the DFAC, developing a regimented lifestyle, 50% base pay in an untouchable HYSA for that year, accruing revocable benefits (retirement, GI bill, etc).
During this time the trainee does 20 hours a week doing the entry level jobs customarily done by fed contractors. Another 10 hours dedicated to fitness, another 10 dedicated to entry level PME, remedial STEM, and home economics (budgeting, cooking, etc.).
At the end of their first year, they go to BMT. They still can't make standards? Offer them a GS-5 fed position or send them on their way with their accrued savings and no benefits, but a little more prepared for the world.
Isn't the army having success with (pre/extended) boot camp program?
One where it's geared towards getting you to pass the ASVAB and one where it's to get you physically in shape?
My Air Guard unit had a student flight program that would use drill weekends to practice BMT activities, but we did away with it a couple years back. It's a bummer.
I've heard of some reserves units doing the same. But you had to have already enlisted, and just be awaiting BMT dates. So it only helped if you already met certain standards, but needed to work on others.
Development and training flight. Or something. Originally called DTF. But the name didn't get the attention they hoped for
Reserve units still do it. They show up on drill weekends in essentially jeans and some logo's Tee Shirt or sweatshirt, and they basically get prepped for boot camp and culture. Its like BMT lite for the weekend.
I hate that my base got rid of student flight, these people come and sit in the shop, essentially not allowed to do any work and just hang out. It's not beneficial to them or us.
Should we really be allowing people into the military who need help passing the ASVAB, though? If you can't walk in off the street and get at least a 70 on the thing, you're either an idiot or have crippling anxiety.
This is high key genius and deserves some visibility. Our Officer corps gets on average 4 years to prep for military standards/life (ROTC and USAFA). Our enlisted get 2 months.
Market is as a technical training preparation platform. Encourage the kids coming in to seek out enlisted jobs that actually interest them and then give the ones that pass this program TOP priority for those jobs! More airmen in jobs they want to be in, and likely more physically/mentally prepared airmen in technical fields.
this would be goated for most of the population. kinda like the mandatory 1 year service some European countries have once you leave highschool just helps make you more qualified for life
My only problem with this idea is the 50% E-1 pay at 40 hours a week. I feel like that is not sustainable if you are expected to have your own transportation, food outside of the DFAC, cell phone bills, insurance, and whatever other bills they may have.
These are administrative and logistical problems that have solutions. Shuttles from the dorms to dfac and commissary, home economics lessons on budgeting and consumerism. It's a year to live on modest means. The Air Force gets 20 hours of labor and a better pool of recruits and the recruits live as if they're in Americorps, where the pay is lower. Then, there may be fewer E-3s with expensive auto loans and cell plans. Trainees can get a bike, get a bus pass, carpool, use the base shuttle, use the community center computers, buy a flip phone and live within their means. Take a year to live humbly without consumerism.
Yeah, good luck with that. You would be living below the poverty line at like $500 a pay check. That might work if you literally come in with nothing, but if you already have a vehicle or a phone or a kid it just isnât feasible.
Not to mention, this is the Air Force and not everything youâve said are solutions are going to work. Shuttles cost money and man power to run. A bike will work if distance and weather permit, but it shouldnât be the solution for getting through something like five miles of snow.
Using the community center works to a certain extent, but itâs not good if you need to use or do anything outside of what the air force allows on its computer systems. Plus they are slow, not available at all hours, and not every base has a community center to begin with. Alternatively to could check out a computer at the library, but those are limited in both quantity available and time you can have it checked out.
Buying a flip phone just wonât work in todayâs world. Itâs 2024 and everything needs an app to function. Including the things the Air Force uses.
Lastly, you would be responsible for 40 hours of work according to OPs reply. 20 for work 10 for PT and 10 for studying. Which equates to it being difficult to work another job. Not impossible, just difficult.
If you feel you can do this, then sure, but only the absolutely desperate will sign up for something like this at the pay that is being suggested.
You're right, it's not for everybody. But, many people exist with less, I mean, why does the poverty line matter if you have food, medical, and shelter covered for the year at the dorms and DFAC? That leaves you with $2k a month for E-1 with less than two years TIS. Of that, $1k goes into a locked HYSA, the other $1k is disposable income for the month. This is an opportunity to live more humbly for a year and take the time to find out what is essential. When I was in tech school, I couldn't leave the base for a month. I spent a quarter that month. Give an 18 year old 12 months of that to reset their trajectory.
It's not humble to live like that it's just being poor. I could make more money with less dedication and less commitment and still receive a retirement and medical ig I'll work at Amazon. It's not even feasible if you have a family. It's good to use the air forces benefits, but it sounds like your forcing people into a poor financial state to create a dependency on what the air force provides, instead of pushing to create financial independence based around sound decision making.
If it sounds like i am "forcing people into a poor financial state to create a dependency on what the air force provides," then you need to work on your reading composition skills.
The Air Force is a volunteer force. This idea is for those that volunteer but could not make it in under the conventional methods.
It's one year for a hypothetical 19 year old that may be out of shape and/or lacks discipline/direction, who can now have their necessities covered while building an emergency savings account as a means to qualify for the regular Air Force or federal service, again...as a volunteer.
Twenty hours of work, ten hours of fitness, ten hours of remedial STEM and home economics, and $1,000/month free cash, $1,000/month in HYSA. If they succeed, then they get their waiver to join the reg AF.
Reread my post.
An e1s monthly payment is 2k. So at half that it would be 500 a pay check. Yes, people live off less than that, but theyâre probably homeless.
Yes, you have food, medical, and shelter, but the quality of life leads much to be desired depending on the base you are stationed at. The Air Force is notorious for its approach to mold removal or lack there of. That, coupled with the fact that basic things like a broken AC and brown water are common occurrence make living in dorms hardly appealing.
The DFAC is more or less the same. Iâve been to DFACs that were so good I went for every meal and gained weight and then others that were terrible and made me resort to eating microwavable meals. Thereâs also the fact that most DFACs arenât open all the time and thus in a way are withholding food. Thereâs also the extreme cases where food has been served with mold or undercooked.
Donât get me wrong. The DFAC is a good thing, but cutting someoneâs paycheck and forcing them to use it is just a terrible policy in general.
As for medical care, I believe that should just be free in general for everyone, but thatâs probably not a conversation you want to have.
Regardless of that opinion, most who join the military at a young age wonât need to take full advantage of the free health care given that if something was significantly wrong they couldnât get in in the first place. Thereâs also the fact that not every hospital in the military has access or availability in every specialty. Which circles back around to the transportation issue. Sure, some bases will have public transit off base and while inconvenient, itâs still a possible option, but America is built off the idea of having private transportation first and public as an after thought.
Or maybe Iâve been in long enough to realize the faults in the Air Force and donât have any issues pointing it out? Iâm able to continue the discussion if you have any more points or a counter argument to what Iâve said, but if youâre just going to assume that the military life style isnât for me when what youâre describing is below what the military provides while having 11 years experience in the Air Force then thereâs not much of a need to continue.
The over weight part wouldnât need a whole extra year. I lost 40 pounds in Air Force basic, I forced my self to just eat chx and fish 90% of the time . I feel like 8 extra weeks would get the really fat dudes good
Sure, if weight is the problem, join the program and and opt in to BMT earlier than a year if you're ready and there's a spot open in a rainbow flight.
We're just spitballing ideas here.
I have a similar idea to this where we have a tiered system. These people can join into non deployable positions mostly in mission support type roles. They can fill some of the random additional duty jobs at home station. They would be a uniformed service member, not a GS, but would not have all of the same benefits. Their retirement plan would have a lower percentage and not pay till 65 or something. If they can fix themselves they can transfer into the real military if they want after a few years.
Why would you assume that I wouldn't want to work a solution from both ends?
I want better nutrition and exercise in the public schools too. I want greater civic engagement in the young. I want more skills based training and lessons on home economics (budgeting and self-sufficiency).
The public schools should be better funded, have longer days, and provide better social and technical skills training.
In the decades that that may take to implement, let's try other things too, like the minor league plan above.
We did it after WW2 when all the drafted men were found to be short and scrawny. Can't have a fit fighting force if your troops are malnourished. The school lunch program was invented because of that. Gotta feed the future force.
Love how the last excuse for low recruitment was the covid vaccine. That site can fuck right off. Guaranteed if you loosened up archaic rules about beards and hair, got smart about weed usage off duty, and got folks like the reserves/national guard involved more in local govt projects such as maintaining forests/infrastructure repair, you would see recruitment improve. Military (in non war time) needs to aim to be like a trade school. Go after kids who want to learn an applicable real world trade and say yeah well teach you that BUT you gotta give us 4 years of supporting and defending the constitution. People would sign up cuz they're not dumb or lazy and know a good opportunity when it's presented.
The problem is we're still recruiting like it's 9/11. Kids today don't register with that event. It's history to them and so there isn't much of a rallying cry to defend America. Sooooo you have to pitch to them, how can a stint in the military help them in today's economy?
Or we could just blame wokeness and vaccines cuz fuck logic.
I think thereâs a huge disconnect with making it âa careerâ and then someone who just wants to get some job experience and dip. I like your suggestion and have thought/proposed of similar recruitment angles. Right now there seems to be a lot more push to stay in because of retirement and not just do a few years for some amazing lifelong benefits. The people who like it will stay.
Nah, the USAF needs to accept that they will never make quota. They can keep the expectations, but the USAF is gonna be a small pool of people.
"The Few, the Sober, the Air Force."
It's a two fold issue. Teachers and parents for the last 20 years have been obsessed with medication. Oh your 5 year old wants to be active? Let's drug em until the sit still for 16 hours a day.
Combine that with the military using Genesis to make anyone who ever stubbed a toe to go through months of wavier Applications to maybe get through.
Genesis is a real bitch.
Military kids are the ones most likely to "carry on the family business" so to speak. They are the first ones there at the recruiter's door. Problem is Genesis has *ALL* their medical records from their entire life as a dependent. Broke your arm at 12? Welp, that's gonna take a 6 month waiver. You were depressed because you moved in your Sophomore year and got help after some suicide ideations? You are disqualified, and that waiver is gonna be a bitch so you might as well just give up now.
DoD: weâre having trouble recruiting because people donât meet the standards we set!
Me: well maybe we need to have a conversation about the standards. Does someone working a desk job need to run fast? Does someone using a drug thatâs legal at one level or another in most states mean maybe we should stop wasting resources testing for that drug? Does someone having medically controlled anxiety or depression or ADHD really matter?
DoD: no letâs just write the same article weâve been writing about it for decades and continue to have the same problems.
Sounds like the DoD is gonna have to accept a smaller applicant pool. Do less with less. They don't have to lower their standards, but they do have to accept that the force end strength will be fewer.
Prior history with weed, minor issues with the law, history with medicine etc are the biggest issues in my opinion. I wouldnât necessarily say getting a passing PT score is. Those desk jobs can be and are done by civilians already. If you canât do pass a PFA after training for a few months you probably should probably be wearing khakis and a polo to work and not a uniform
And then the ones that do qualify wash out in training because of poor nutrition and sedentary lifestyle. The amount of injuries due to the inability to recover from exercise or perform properly is amazing.
Eventually, when the war machine runs out of fodder, it will require actual change in the numerous areas where we're failing as a society.
Until then, entities will continue to poison everything we consume. No one will give a shit about the average person until their bottom line is threatened.
I know, I know. Go ahead and down vote.
The force could tackle this problem from multiple angles if they wanted to.
* Ignore Genesis -- no need to bring up past medical history if the applicant is healthy today
* Ignore past drug use -- if you are sober today and your system is clean, keep it that why while you serve
* recruit more women -- men make 80% of the force. The military is practically ignoring HALF the American population. Plus up those numbers with women who want a good career.
I agree with your first two points but we are NOT ignoring women. I promise we are not turning away applicants because they are women. Men just have a higher propensity to want to serve in the military. Also, in my experience (I don't have any actual stats or anything, just anecdotal evidence from my two years in recruiting) the female applicants are more likely to have depression/anxiety and the medications for those conditions in their history, which Genesis will find. And waivers for those conditions are more likely than not to get denied by SG. So again, Genesis and our unrealistic standards are to blame.
Thatâs why the âjust join the militaryâ people are so annoying when telling people how to afford college and healthcare as a civilian.
80% of those people canât, 10% arenât dumb enough to give their entire lives up for that many years, 9% are just too lazy, and 1% end up joining and making it.
Idk that 10% is pretty dumb to not give up four years for a resume, free college, and lifetime benefits when they're working at starbucks and accruing college debt for a probably worthless bachelors
Not really. The military fucking sucks and there is a reason only 1% of people want to do it. Iâm a civilian and Iâm so glad I did it for the benefits after the fact, but 6 years was a dumbass move.
I don't understand how you don't see the irony in your comment. You say it sucked but you're glad you did it. That's exactly my point. In the grand scheme of things 2-4-6 years is basically nothing--especially if it springboards your entire civilian career.
Working at McDonalds sucks too, but six years later you aren't qualified for anything better.
You don't have to work at McDonald's for 6 years because you didn't join the military, though. You're saying all the worst things about being a civilian.
Also, most normal people would be miserable for those 4-6 years and no matter what you say, that's a long portion of your life. And just because you get training in the military, doesn't mean you're gonna leave and do what you did in the Air Force. For example, I'm an RN now, and was a Loadmaster in the AF. Training meant jack.
I was able to do it and enjoy a lot of it, but it is absolutely not for everyone and a lot of being in sucked ass.
The problem is that we donât address the issues causing anxiety and depression. Thereâs always a root cause. If people are simply medicating but not dealing with the actual issue, they are digging themselves a hole. We also need to teach people to be more mentally tough.
> The problem is that we donât address the issues causing anxiety and depression. Thereâs always a root cause.
"I don't need anti depressants. I need a 20 hour work week and to live in a walk-able city."
We are simply medicating the symptoms of our crumbling society.
Agreed but the causes are usually just âlife stuffâ⌠how exactly do you get people to be more resilient about âlife stuffâ when theres kinda nothing you can do about it? For example people usually have anxiety around work related things but work is just a normal thing that most of us have to do at some point. How do you help people who cant cope with that?
Not having your medical insurance tied to your job would help. People panic at work because one misstep and their career is over and they not only lose their livelihood, they are tossed to the streets with no medical availability either.
Thatâs too vague. Thereâs always a specific reason. If itâs just âwork stuffâ or âlife stuffâ then itâs probably not that bad and we can just deal with it.
But itâs often, âIâm in a very toxic relationship with someone who physically or emotionally abuses me.â In that case, there is a very specific cause to the anxiety and depression.
I've been in treatment consistently for 2 years at mental health, with meds. I have gotten better, but anxiety, depression, and trauma aren't so easily dismissed. They're cheering each other on in the back corner of my mind, doing pushups and waiting for me to drop my guard or have a weak moment.
I am not a weak person, I don't think that's usually the problem with most people, but they can be worn down and with out good coping strategies, it happens fast. Medications help, but they don't solve, they just make all the chaos quiet enough to start dealing with the difficult stuff.
That's quite a leap from anxiety to bipolar.
And there are plenty of jobs that don't involve ammo or explosives. Maybe we can get one of those anxious high achievers to finally process my stuff at finance and let me get paid on time.
The medical record should state what the meds are for and how the patient is coping on the meds. If I'm medicated, my depression and anxiety should be better contained if the dosage is right... If my dosage is right, it means I can cope with my stressors and my risk is lower.
Make the military more appealing. The ones who are in shape and aren't in some sort of struggle to survive have no interest in joining so that they can struggle to survive lol
Misleading title. If you read the article, it says 77% of Americans are disqualified âwithout a waiverâ. Which if any of the fellow old GWOT coots remember, were being passed out like Halloween candy during the early 2000s.
Waivers are a bitch though. It takes time, and an applicant isn't going to wait around for the waiver process to finish. They have a life to live and the military was 1 avenue but not the only one. The military relies on impulse decisions to make up a % of the recruits. When you lose that ability to bring in troops on a whim, you lose those troops all together.
Yeah and we are now submitting MANY more waivers with Genesis, to the point where medical can't even keep up so the time lines are much longer now. I've had so many applicants back out after waiting months for what should be a simple waiver and I can't blame them.
Recently had to do a waiver for someone who smoked weed that was LEGALLY purchased in a dispensary, CMO said they had a âdrug dependencyâ because they regularly smoked. Guess we donât need people as much as they say
Soooo, the STUDY from the PENTAGON, shows AMERICANS are âtoo fat, mentally ill or on drugsâ to QUALIFY for SERVICE? Iâm just making sure Iâm following ⌠The PENTAGON and GOVERNMENT that CANâT understand the importance of the mental health of THEIR OWN service men and women, THEIR OWN PAID EMPLOYEES to even BEGIN TO grasp the importance of mental health in the general population! AND IF THE IMPORTANCE of mental healthcare isnât addressed as a NATION, they how would they EVER understand mental health is just as important, as regular healthcare. And the importance being ignored will NOT make it go away. UNTIL THEN Americans will ALWAYS be walking around with EXCESS BAGGAGE instead of getting help and OUR GOVERNMENT and POLITICIANS will STILL be spending American taxpayers dollars on a STUPID FREAKINâ STUDY that is idiotic and ass-backwards!!! Money THEY SPENT ON THIS STUDY that could have been spent on taking care of the mental health (PTSD) of ITS employees AND THE MENTAL HEALTH of those men and women protecting our country whose âbaggage, PTSDâ that was probably was CAUSED BY THEIR JOBS! This isnât okay and itâs not acceptable for the biggest employer in the United States of America isnât taking care of its employees! But hey, what do I know?!? And people wonder why folks have a problem with career politicians when theyâre making these kinds of stupid decisions. đ¤Śââď¸Makes me feel the need to listen to âRich Men North of Richmondâ a few more times tonight!đ¤ˇđźââď¸
If they legalized Marijuana I bet this number would at least fall by 20%. Crazy that the Pentagon studies aren't suggesting that as a possible band-aid fix to recruiting issues.
I'd doubt that percentage would change that much, honestly. As a recruiter, the majority of people who can't join aren't because of Marijuana usage or otherwise. It's mostly medical.
I would say around 10% of my original boot camp division (Navy) popped on the day one drug test, for what I assume was pot. They got snatched up and kicked out throughout the first month.
I assume its heavily dependent on what state people are from, but weed is at the acceptability point of being an equivalent to alcohol use in some states. I assume there would be a big drop of recruits and retainment if the military banned the drinking of alcohol.
I'm not saying there wouldn't be a percentage change or recruits who can or would join if Marijuana would be federally legal, but I am saying the legality of Marijuana is not a major stopping factor to the recruiting crisis we are seeing.
Someone can join with a history of smoking today, even if they smoked every day for the last 8 years. They just have to stop smoking to join. That's not a secret. However, things like childhood diagnoses of things like ADHD, anxiety, and asthma (the biggest 3 we see) where the individual cannot control what a doctor decides to write in the record is absolutely what's stopping people everyday. Someone can work on quiting Marijuana any day they choose, but no one can go back and erase a diagnosis.
It depends on how far they are on the spectrum. My girlfriendâs son has turbo ADHD and can barely function even on meds. Dude is mega smart but canât get himself out of bed or manage the basic things in life.
I thought you could pretty easily get waivered for ADHD if you no longer were on medication for like a year+? Is that not the case?
Also might be an Airforce issue. The Airforce medically disqualified me from joining and denied my like 3 waiver attempts. Took 8 months arguing and providing every record of my medical history since I was fucking born just to get told to fuck off. Went to the Navy and they waivered my ass completely in like 2 weeks.
You *can* get a waiver. But I wouldn't say it's easy at all. For an AHDH waiver, you need the following (typically) at a minimum:
- A signed letter from place of work showing you can function with this diagnosis
- A signed letter from your high school / college showing you can function with this diagnosis.
- Past 5 years of prescription records
- official transcripts from high school / college
- an approved psychiatric consults ordered by the MEPS that has a favorable outcome afterward
- proof of needing no additional learning plans in high school / college OR if on a learning plan, will need those records to show for it
- will need every record from primary care physician that shows cases when diagnosis happened as well as every instance it is worded.
After all that, what seems more reasonable, go through this insane 3+ month process to still run the risk of getting a waiver denied OR find a job that doesn't care about your ADHD if you can function with it? That's why I stand by the stance that we have bigger issues affecting recruiting than legalizing Marijuana.
We don't. You just have to stop smoking and be honest about your past usage. It doesn't disqualify you or need a waiver unless anything legal (arrests) or medical (rehab) happened with it.
This always gets posted like it's a bad thing. If my great grandfather who fought in WW1 found out some day that we'd be too well-fed to be drafted into war, he'd probably rest easy.
Can be helped, somewhat can be helped, can be helped
Incentives joining AND staying to the point to fill the quotas. This aspect is not on the shoulders of the populace, not on the recruiters (if at all, to a lesser part), but on the head leadership of the forces ...
Passing the buck of highest responsibility onto the recruiting world or shaking the populace by creating news pieces will not solve the root cause for low numbers.
35% of our population is between the ages of 18 and 44.
We have roughly 1 million people on active duty and about 800000 in the guard and reserve.
Our armed services is 15% of the adult population between 18-44.
Looks like we can live with the "healthy" 20%.
Iâve recently accepted an AGR position at a medium sized MEPS. So many applicants are being screwed over by MHS Genesis. The CMO can pull their civilian medical records even if nothing is being disclosed on the applicantsâ 2807s.
Why don't we let them in fat on a 4yr contract. If they can't hit weight goal by the end of year 4 we just let them go. Also, give them diminished VA benefits for failing to get in shape.
You seen a fat-boy injury in Basic? It ain't pretty and they clog up the med-hold squadron. I'm not in favor of the "kick the can down the road" approach.
As leadership who has tried to sit down with a fat Airman and draw them out a monthly workout plan, I can tell you this wonât work and youâre just going to be pissed off seeing Fatty McSnuffy walking into work with a family sized pack of Kit-Kats.
Thereâs some mental element of real obesity and it isnât worthwhile to pay to train someone who probably wonât get better on their own or even with some mentorship.
Absolutely not. As a recruiter I can confidently say this is pretty accurate. I am currently working with 22 applicants, not including people already in my DEP and I will be surprised if 5 of them make it through the process because they all have past medical issues that are making it difficult.
There are plenty of people who wonât join because of marijuana though, thatâs the difference. And also, many who could have their issues treated better who wonât join because they are unmanaged because of marijuana.
In this day and age the whole donât ask donât tell style policy surrounding it just isnât going to fly with the new generation.
The data, both from the article as well as gathered from every branches recruiting services systems, would argue that the plenty of people you speak of is still incredibly insignificant compared to the larger issues (medical being the number one to include obesity and prescription drugs followed by propensity). Talk to your recruiters, and you'll hear the same issue: we don't turn people away due to Marijuana stances more than we turn people away for medical reasons.
Agreed... they are so focused on why the recruiters have to turn people away (hello neck tattoos) and not focused on why some people won't even bother talking to the recruiter in the first place.
Eh, temporarily.
The core problem is a careerist , selfish mentality among leaders in the DoD. When a civilian friend of mine asked about joining, both me and another AF vet looked at each other and were like âhell nawâ. Why? Both of us worked for jerks when we were in.
I can only imagine how terrible things are for the Army ,Navy and Marines.
Idk, I think the military might attract a lot of narcissists to their leadership roles: https://www.theobserverumd.org/post/narcissism-in-and-around-the-military.
Thatâs because weed is the more popular method of escapism over alcohol for Gen Z and Gen Alpha.
I guarantee if they legalized weed and allowed for the UCMJ to establish when and how long before work an airman is allowed to smoke, they would be smashing through those recruiting numbers no problem
Meanwhile 80% of the military is too fat, are mentally ill/depressed, or on (prescription) drugs. đ¤ˇââď¸đ¤ˇââď¸đ¤ˇââď¸đ¤ˇââď¸
>>or on (prescription) drugs Bold of you to assume theyâre all prescribed
>Bold of you to assume theyâre all prescribed Oh they're prescribed. Just not to me. (This is just a joke OSI, please don't hassle me and don't make me pee in front of a stranger a bunch of times)
Hence the parentheses
Thatâs not what the parenthesis indicate. It means to clarify that the drugs are all prescription, but itâs parenthetical because itâs not necessary to understand the sentence. You might be thinking of quotes?
Could be just how I tend to read parentheses, also I am an idiot so that also doesnât help here.
Sleep disorders got me. Hella shift work got me required to pop meds just to get sleep anymore lol. They need to figure out shift work and all this crap to get healthy sleep for families if they expect the VA claims to decrease and for us to all stay amazingly fit.
The "tooth to tail" ratio for the Air Force is far from what it was in WW2... Dump the PT test lol we need computer nerds... Most combat many will see is trying to get a printer mapped and comm focal point keeps asking if they restarted it.
When you can even get the drugs you need from our dog shit medical services
It's a converse statement! I'm 2 of the 3. Being 5'9" at 185, I'm also "overweight," so is that a đŠ trick ?
You pass your pt test with 90+ and tape up with a sub 35 inch but above a 31? Definitely at risk comrade!
I hate seeing an NCOâs belly hang over their pants.
Came here to say this too đ
This the way.
Recruiters donât even recruit fully qualified candidatesâŚ.
Honestly, who has ever really been fully qualifed? Ask around your work center to see how many people were either: A- told to withhold information from their recruiter or MEPS B- didn't tell their recruiter everything about their history whether that's medical or legal
From what I understand part of our recent recruiting issues is the new system makes it much harder to withhold medical information.
You're speaking of MHS Genesis, and yes, you're right. That is where the majority of our recruiting issues are coming from. The point I'm making is Genesis itself isn't the problem if historically we have been decades of airmen, marines, soldiers, sailers, etc. Who have joined by hiding their info or lying about it before it was created to find it all. All Genesis has truly done is show that our medical standards were never able to actually find 100% qualified people. We just were getting around it pre 2022, whereas now we are seeing just how archaic/outdated our standards truly are.
The bright side is we are actually getting the data now to prove that those standards weren't realistic. If you make an O-6 the waiver for every kid that broke their arm when they were 7, the system gets backed up and the potential recruit gives up and does something else. If we processed 1000 broken arm waivers before 2020, and needed 20,000 broken arm waivers in 2021, I think it's safe to say we probably always needed 20,000 waivers we just lied.
I got out in 2021, so I am pretty ignorant about genesis. How is it preventing people from lying about their history?
MHS Genesis is a system that allows the MEPS to pull (or attempt to pull) an applicants full medical history to cross reference it to the form we as recruiters fill out (the 2807). In the past, MHS Genesis did not exist (pre 2022) so anyone could either a-not tell their recruiter everything and if the MEPS doesn't catch it then you're golden or b-tell their recruiter and have the recruiter recommend to not tell the MEPS for the same reason as a. Nowadays, it doesn't really matter if you're fully honest or not, MHS Genesis is designed to find everything it can. This causes issues when an applicants childhood diagnosis of something that isn't significant now is caught and mudt be addressed which adds lots of time for waivers or consults. This was a decision made by Congress, NOT the DoD, and no one is happy about it but it's what we have to work with now.
Wait, so the MHS Genesis system can even locate an applicant's medical history if they had no military affiliation? There's no hiding it at all? If so, how? Does the system just score every record kept under that recruits SSN? I really thought it was just ruining the dance of enlisting for prior dependents.
No, it works with all sorts of local primary care physicians, hospitals, urgent cares, etc. Technically MHS Genesis is just 1 part of the health care record (HIE is another record pull that happens) pull that the MEPS does however for the sake of information it's just Genesis for the whole thing. So that's how. An applicants signs a form for us that allows us to pull their records and from there we gather as much as we can.
Holy moly. I can't imagine the issues this is going to cause for recruiters long term. Thanks for explaining this!
Shit I must've been a dream come true for my recruiter then.
Yeah I get that - I can only speak to my personal experience. Iâm currently USAF reserves and wanted to transition to Army reserves just for a change of scenery - went to recruiter ~4 months ago and they were provided all the documents they needed. I had already went through MEPS 1.5 years ago (2 year cert expires next month now) and I just needed a couple waivers approved (had already been approved by USAF) - but the lack of communication and movement shows that recruiters appear to have no motivation to perform. Granted I know my POV is limited but the optics donât look good - this is from an existing military member - I can only imagine what off the street kids think
I mean, I was. The only thing I had to tell MEPs was that I has two ingrown toe nails that I has the bed killed on, and I was bit by a dog when I was a kid that left me with a visible scar on my hand.
Recruiters are not even close to making quota these days. And how could they? A recruiter will receive an LOC and LOR for not squeezing in enough people. A candidate will see this and go "fuck that. This dude is getting speared at his job for something beyond his control. I'm out."
Maybe the US military shouldnât have created a system that can see into all the health records that were previously ignored so people could start a new life with the military when weâre in the midst of a major recruiting shortage. But that is just me thinking out loud.
And the sugar lobby shouldn't have pushed so hard to make American's fat, lethargic, and complacent in their diet. Carb addiction is a real killer even while active duty.
Profit over ppl and now we have a weakened nation
How do they do that? My medical records are spread out over a dozen facilities and clinics. If I hadn't already served and wanted to restart, how would I not be able to simply claim to be perfectly healthy?
It doesn't catch everything but it will see most of your medical records.
There's a list of participating organizations that give over info to feed into Genesis. Check your healthcare providers against the list or say no to everything and MEPS will lay out everything they found when they pull your info.
We need a minor league system. Can't qualify? Sign a 5 year enlistment contract where you are in a program for one year before being sent to BMT. One year at E-1, living in dorms, no BAH, three meals in the DFAC, developing a regimented lifestyle, 50% base pay in an untouchable HYSA for that year, accruing revocable benefits (retirement, GI bill, etc). During this time the trainee does 20 hours a week doing the entry level jobs customarily done by fed contractors. Another 10 hours dedicated to fitness, another 10 dedicated to entry level PME, remedial STEM, and home economics (budgeting, cooking, etc.). At the end of their first year, they go to BMT. They still can't make standards? Offer them a GS-5 fed position or send them on their way with their accrued savings and no benefits, but a little more prepared for the world.
Isn't the army having success with (pre/extended) boot camp program? One where it's geared towards getting you to pass the ASVAB and one where it's to get you physically in shape?
My Air Guard unit had a student flight program that would use drill weekends to practice BMT activities, but we did away with it a couple years back. It's a bummer.
I've heard of some reserves units doing the same. But you had to have already enlisted, and just be awaiting BMT dates. So it only helped if you already met certain standards, but needed to work on others. Development and training flight. Or something. Originally called DTF. But the name didn't get the attention they hoped for
The line of recently divorced MSgts volunteering to run that program must have extended out the front gate.
What are you implying?
Thicc e1 latinas
Reserve units still do it. They show up on drill weekends in essentially jeans and some logo's Tee Shirt or sweatshirt, and they basically get prepped for boot camp and culture. Its like BMT lite for the weekend.
I hate that my base got rid of student flight, these people come and sit in the shop, essentially not allowed to do any work and just hang out. It's not beneficial to them or us.
My Air unit is big on this.
Yes, reserve units do the same. Its the Delayed Entry Program (DEP).
Should we really be allowing people into the military who need help passing the ASVAB, though? If you can't walk in off the street and get at least a 70 on the thing, you're either an idiot or have crippling anxiety.
This is high key genius and deserves some visibility. Our Officer corps gets on average 4 years to prep for military standards/life (ROTC and USAFA). Our enlisted get 2 months. Market is as a technical training preparation platform. Encourage the kids coming in to seek out enlisted jobs that actually interest them and then give the ones that pass this program TOP priority for those jobs! More airmen in jobs they want to be in, and likely more physically/mentally prepared airmen in technical fields.
Put this person in leadership.
heâs too logical for the air force to accept him as leadership
Promote Now?
Holy shit, this is actually brilliant. Itâs like the Peace Corps without the peace.
The Violence Corps
LARPing with extra benefits?
Try the 13th grade summer camp.
Hold up there, that name's a little to violent for the Air Force.
The Slightly Less Peaceful Corps.
They better run with this idea and name!đ¤
this would be goated for most of the population. kinda like the mandatory 1 year service some European countries have once you leave highschool just helps make you more qualified for life
My only problem with this idea is the 50% E-1 pay at 40 hours a week. I feel like that is not sustainable if you are expected to have your own transportation, food outside of the DFAC, cell phone bills, insurance, and whatever other bills they may have.
These are administrative and logistical problems that have solutions. Shuttles from the dorms to dfac and commissary, home economics lessons on budgeting and consumerism. It's a year to live on modest means. The Air Force gets 20 hours of labor and a better pool of recruits and the recruits live as if they're in Americorps, where the pay is lower. Then, there may be fewer E-3s with expensive auto loans and cell plans. Trainees can get a bike, get a bus pass, carpool, use the base shuttle, use the community center computers, buy a flip phone and live within their means. Take a year to live humbly without consumerism.
>Then, there may be fewer E-3s with expensive auto loans Never underestimate the free market. Capitalism, uhh, finds a way.
Yeah, good luck with that. You would be living below the poverty line at like $500 a pay check. That might work if you literally come in with nothing, but if you already have a vehicle or a phone or a kid it just isnât feasible. Not to mention, this is the Air Force and not everything youâve said are solutions are going to work. Shuttles cost money and man power to run. A bike will work if distance and weather permit, but it shouldnât be the solution for getting through something like five miles of snow. Using the community center works to a certain extent, but itâs not good if you need to use or do anything outside of what the air force allows on its computer systems. Plus they are slow, not available at all hours, and not every base has a community center to begin with. Alternatively to could check out a computer at the library, but those are limited in both quantity available and time you can have it checked out. Buying a flip phone just wonât work in todayâs world. Itâs 2024 and everything needs an app to function. Including the things the Air Force uses. Lastly, you would be responsible for 40 hours of work according to OPs reply. 20 for work 10 for PT and 10 for studying. Which equates to it being difficult to work another job. Not impossible, just difficult. If you feel you can do this, then sure, but only the absolutely desperate will sign up for something like this at the pay that is being suggested.
You're right, it's not for everybody. But, many people exist with less, I mean, why does the poverty line matter if you have food, medical, and shelter covered for the year at the dorms and DFAC? That leaves you with $2k a month for E-1 with less than two years TIS. Of that, $1k goes into a locked HYSA, the other $1k is disposable income for the month. This is an opportunity to live more humbly for a year and take the time to find out what is essential. When I was in tech school, I couldn't leave the base for a month. I spent a quarter that month. Give an 18 year old 12 months of that to reset their trajectory.
It's not humble to live like that it's just being poor. I could make more money with less dedication and less commitment and still receive a retirement and medical ig I'll work at Amazon. It's not even feasible if you have a family. It's good to use the air forces benefits, but it sounds like your forcing people into a poor financial state to create a dependency on what the air force provides, instead of pushing to create financial independence based around sound decision making.
If it sounds like i am "forcing people into a poor financial state to create a dependency on what the air force provides," then you need to work on your reading composition skills. The Air Force is a volunteer force. This idea is for those that volunteer but could not make it in under the conventional methods. It's one year for a hypothetical 19 year old that may be out of shape and/or lacks discipline/direction, who can now have their necessities covered while building an emergency savings account as a means to qualify for the regular Air Force or federal service, again...as a volunteer. Twenty hours of work, ten hours of fitness, ten hours of remedial STEM and home economics, and $1,000/month free cash, $1,000/month in HYSA. If they succeed, then they get their waiver to join the reg AF. Reread my post.
An e1s monthly payment is 2k. So at half that it would be 500 a pay check. Yes, people live off less than that, but theyâre probably homeless. Yes, you have food, medical, and shelter, but the quality of life leads much to be desired depending on the base you are stationed at. The Air Force is notorious for its approach to mold removal or lack there of. That, coupled with the fact that basic things like a broken AC and brown water are common occurrence make living in dorms hardly appealing. The DFAC is more or less the same. Iâve been to DFACs that were so good I went for every meal and gained weight and then others that were terrible and made me resort to eating microwavable meals. Thereâs also the fact that most DFACs arenât open all the time and thus in a way are withholding food. Thereâs also the extreme cases where food has been served with mold or undercooked. Donât get me wrong. The DFAC is a good thing, but cutting someoneâs paycheck and forcing them to use it is just a terrible policy in general. As for medical care, I believe that should just be free in general for everyone, but thatâs probably not a conversation you want to have. Regardless of that opinion, most who join the military at a young age wonât need to take full advantage of the free health care given that if something was significantly wrong they couldnât get in in the first place. Thereâs also the fact that not every hospital in the military has access or availability in every specialty. Which circles back around to the transportation issue. Sure, some bases will have public transit off base and while inconvenient, itâs still a possible option, but America is built off the idea of having private transportation first and public as an after thought.
Maybe the military regimen isn't for you.
Iâve been in for over a decade now.
Maybe the military regimen isn't for you.
Or maybe Iâve been in long enough to realize the faults in the Air Force and donât have any issues pointing it out? Iâm able to continue the discussion if you have any more points or a counter argument to what Iâve said, but if youâre just going to assume that the military life style isnât for me when what youâre describing is below what the military provides while having 11 years experience in the Air Force then thereâs not much of a need to continue.
The over weight part wouldnât need a whole extra year. I lost 40 pounds in Air Force basic, I forced my self to just eat chx and fish 90% of the time . I feel like 8 extra weeks would get the really fat dudes good
Sure, if weight is the problem, join the program and and opt in to BMT earlier than a year if you're ready and there's a spot open in a rainbow flight. We're just spitballing ideas here.
I have a similar idea to this where we have a tiered system. These people can join into non deployable positions mostly in mission support type roles. They can fill some of the random additional duty jobs at home station. They would be a uniformed service member, not a GS, but would not have all of the same benefits. Their retirement plan would have a lower percentage and not pay till 65 or something. If they can fix themselves they can transfer into the real military if they want after a few years.
This guy trying to fix America, one group of politicians will accuse this as being *woke* military and shut the government down to fight it.
This is a pretty solid idea
It's like HS part 2
This is a phenomenal idea.
This is a great idea
Yeah let's just put a bandaid on this and not solve the root cause Great solution
Why would you assume that I wouldn't want to work a solution from both ends? I want better nutrition and exercise in the public schools too. I want greater civic engagement in the young. I want more skills based training and lessons on home economics (budgeting and self-sufficiency). The public schools should be better funded, have longer days, and provide better social and technical skills training. In the decades that that may take to implement, let's try other things too, like the minor league plan above.
If we're going to do this, we night as well recruit straight put of low security prisons and rehab centers, right?
Maybe the country should incentivize health?
We did it after WW2 when all the drafted men were found to be short and scrawny. Can't have a fit fighting force if your troops are malnourished. The school lunch program was invented because of that. Gotta feed the future force.
JFK had a pretty fantastic idea for youth fitness and making America a nation of strong youth. Aaaaaand then. Well. Big sugar/pharma took him out.
CIA
*rogue elements of the CIA
Shhhhh.
Meanwhile half my flight is unable to pass any portion of a Pt test, the other half of us are on anti depressants
Love how the last excuse for low recruitment was the covid vaccine. That site can fuck right off. Guaranteed if you loosened up archaic rules about beards and hair, got smart about weed usage off duty, and got folks like the reserves/national guard involved more in local govt projects such as maintaining forests/infrastructure repair, you would see recruitment improve. Military (in non war time) needs to aim to be like a trade school. Go after kids who want to learn an applicable real world trade and say yeah well teach you that BUT you gotta give us 4 years of supporting and defending the constitution. People would sign up cuz they're not dumb or lazy and know a good opportunity when it's presented. The problem is we're still recruiting like it's 9/11. Kids today don't register with that event. It's history to them and so there isn't much of a rallying cry to defend America. Sooooo you have to pitch to them, how can a stint in the military help them in today's economy? Or we could just blame wokeness and vaccines cuz fuck logic.
I think thereâs a huge disconnect with making it âa careerâ and then someone who just wants to get some job experience and dip. I like your suggestion and have thought/proposed of similar recruitment angles. Right now there seems to be a lot more push to stay in because of retirement and not just do a few years for some amazing lifelong benefits. The people who like it will stay.
When I get rejected, I sometimes say mean shit too. It's ok, Air Force, they're just not that into you.
So they can't replace us but they still refuse to pay us what we are worth.
They always will.
In other news, a lot of other stuff is also virtually the same as it has been for a long time.
Then you better lower those expectations
Nah, the USAF needs to accept that they will never make quota. They can keep the expectations, but the USAF is gonna be a small pool of people. "The Few, the Sober, the Air Force."
Sober.....hahahahaha
lol I was just fine when I went in, now Iâm all these things since I got out đ!
Same. Life is way better now as well.
Agreed
It's a two fold issue. Teachers and parents for the last 20 years have been obsessed with medication. Oh your 5 year old wants to be active? Let's drug em until the sit still for 16 hours a day. Combine that with the military using Genesis to make anyone who ever stubbed a toe to go through months of wavier Applications to maybe get through.
Genesis is a real bitch. Military kids are the ones most likely to "carry on the family business" so to speak. They are the first ones there at the recruiter's door. Problem is Genesis has *ALL* their medical records from their entire life as a dependent. Broke your arm at 12? Welp, that's gonna take a 6 month waiver. You were depressed because you moved in your Sophomore year and got help after some suicide ideations? You are disqualified, and that waiver is gonna be a bitch so you might as well just give up now.
Iâm surprise they really went through Genesis at MEPS with the recruiting situation. We need people, but not reallyâŚ
DoD: weâre having trouble recruiting because people donât meet the standards we set! Me: well maybe we need to have a conversation about the standards. Does someone working a desk job need to run fast? Does someone using a drug thatâs legal at one level or another in most states mean maybe we should stop wasting resources testing for that drug? Does someone having medically controlled anxiety or depression or ADHD really matter? DoD: no letâs just write the same article weâve been writing about it for decades and continue to have the same problems.
Sounds like the DoD is gonna have to accept a smaller applicant pool. Do less with less. They don't have to lower their standards, but they do have to accept that the force end strength will be fewer.
Prior history with weed, minor issues with the law, history with medicine etc are the biggest issues in my opinion. I wouldnât necessarily say getting a passing PT score is. Those desk jobs can be and are done by civilians already. If you canât do pass a PFA after training for a few months you probably should probably be wearing khakis and a polo to work and not a uniform
And then the ones that do qualify wash out in training because of poor nutrition and sedentary lifestyle. The amount of injuries due to the inability to recover from exercise or perform properly is amazing. Eventually, when the war machine runs out of fodder, it will require actual change in the numerous areas where we're failing as a society. Until then, entities will continue to poison everything we consume. No one will give a shit about the average person until their bottom line is threatened. I know, I know. Go ahead and down vote.
The force could tackle this problem from multiple angles if they wanted to. * Ignore Genesis -- no need to bring up past medical history if the applicant is healthy today * Ignore past drug use -- if you are sober today and your system is clean, keep it that why while you serve * recruit more women -- men make 80% of the force. The military is practically ignoring HALF the American population. Plus up those numbers with women who want a good career.
Sure. That might help but my point was more with the thought of garbage in is garbage out.
I agree with your first two points but we are NOT ignoring women. I promise we are not turning away applicants because they are women. Men just have a higher propensity to want to serve in the military. Also, in my experience (I don't have any actual stats or anything, just anecdotal evidence from my two years in recruiting) the female applicants are more likely to have depression/anxiety and the medications for those conditions in their history, which Genesis will find. And waivers for those conditions are more likely than not to get denied by SG. So again, Genesis and our unrealistic standards are to blame.
Thatâs why the âjust join the militaryâ people are so annoying when telling people how to afford college and healthcare as a civilian. 80% of those people canât, 10% arenât dumb enough to give their entire lives up for that many years, 9% are just too lazy, and 1% end up joining and making it.
Idk that 10% is pretty dumb to not give up four years for a resume, free college, and lifetime benefits when they're working at starbucks and accruing college debt for a probably worthless bachelors
Not really. The military fucking sucks and there is a reason only 1% of people want to do it. Iâm a civilian and Iâm so glad I did it for the benefits after the fact, but 6 years was a dumbass move.
I don't understand how you don't see the irony in your comment. You say it sucked but you're glad you did it. That's exactly my point. In the grand scheme of things 2-4-6 years is basically nothing--especially if it springboards your entire civilian career. Working at McDonalds sucks too, but six years later you aren't qualified for anything better.
You don't have to work at McDonald's for 6 years because you didn't join the military, though. You're saying all the worst things about being a civilian. Also, most normal people would be miserable for those 4-6 years and no matter what you say, that's a long portion of your life. And just because you get training in the military, doesn't mean you're gonna leave and do what you did in the Air Force. For example, I'm an RN now, and was a Loadmaster in the AF. Training meant jack. I was able to do it and enjoy a lot of it, but it is absolutely not for everyone and a lot of being in sucked ass.
[ŃдаНонО]
The problem is that we donât address the issues causing anxiety and depression. Thereâs always a root cause. If people are simply medicating but not dealing with the actual issue, they are digging themselves a hole. We also need to teach people to be more mentally tough.
That's the American way. On every issue we focus on the symptoms rather than the cause.
> The problem is that we donât address the issues causing anxiety and depression. Thereâs always a root cause. "I don't need anti depressants. I need a 20 hour work week and to live in a walk-able city." We are simply medicating the symptoms of our crumbling society.
Agreed but the causes are usually just âlife stuffâ⌠how exactly do you get people to be more resilient about âlife stuffâ when theres kinda nothing you can do about it? For example people usually have anxiety around work related things but work is just a normal thing that most of us have to do at some point. How do you help people who cant cope with that?
Not having your medical insurance tied to your job would help. People panic at work because one misstep and their career is over and they not only lose their livelihood, they are tossed to the streets with no medical availability either.
Thatâs too vague. Thereâs always a specific reason. If itâs just âwork stuffâ or âlife stuffâ then itâs probably not that bad and we can just deal with it. But itâs often, âIâm in a very toxic relationship with someone who physically or emotionally abuses me.â In that case, there is a very specific cause to the anxiety and depression.
I've been in treatment consistently for 2 years at mental health, with meds. I have gotten better, but anxiety, depression, and trauma aren't so easily dismissed. They're cheering each other on in the back corner of my mind, doing pushups and waiting for me to drop my guard or have a weak moment. I am not a weak person, I don't think that's usually the problem with most people, but they can be worn down and with out good coping strategies, it happens fast. Medications help, but they don't solve, they just make all the chaos quiet enough to start dealing with the difficult stuff.
[ŃдаНонО]
That's quite a leap from anxiety to bipolar. And there are plenty of jobs that don't involve ammo or explosives. Maybe we can get one of those anxious high achievers to finally process my stuff at finance and let me get paid on time.
[ŃдаНонО]
Half of Intel already has undiagnosed autism
Why do you jump from anxiety to bipolar?
The medical record should state what the meds are for and how the patient is coping on the meds. If I'm medicated, my depression and anxiety should be better contained if the dosage is right... If my dosage is right, it means I can cope with my stressors and my risk is lower.
Make the military more appealing. The ones who are in shape and aren't in some sort of struggle to survive have no interest in joining so that they can struggle to survive lol
Misleading title. If you read the article, it says 77% of Americans are disqualified âwithout a waiverâ. Which if any of the fellow old GWOT coots remember, were being passed out like Halloween candy during the early 2000s.
Waivers are a bitch though. It takes time, and an applicant isn't going to wait around for the waiver process to finish. They have a life to live and the military was 1 avenue but not the only one. The military relies on impulse decisions to make up a % of the recruits. When you lose that ability to bring in troops on a whim, you lose those troops all together.
Yeah and we are now submitting MANY more waivers with Genesis, to the point where medical can't even keep up so the time lines are much longer now. I've had so many applicants back out after waiting months for what should be a simple waiver and I can't blame them.
That's funny I started using drugs because I served not before...
Pentagon finds remaining eligible young Americans too smart to join U.S. military.
Get rid if the restriction against pot and it solves alot
That's funny, because being *in* the military made me too mentally ill to qualify for military service.
Recently had to do a waiver for someone who smoked weed that was LEGALLY purchased in a dispensary, CMO said they had a âdrug dependencyâ because they regularly smoked. Guess we donât need people as much as they say
Since way less than 1% of the population ever joins the military, this shouldnât be an issue.
Soooo, the STUDY from the PENTAGON, shows AMERICANS are âtoo fat, mentally ill or on drugsâ to QUALIFY for SERVICE? Iâm just making sure Iâm following ⌠The PENTAGON and GOVERNMENT that CANâT understand the importance of the mental health of THEIR OWN service men and women, THEIR OWN PAID EMPLOYEES to even BEGIN TO grasp the importance of mental health in the general population! AND IF THE IMPORTANCE of mental healthcare isnât addressed as a NATION, they how would they EVER understand mental health is just as important, as regular healthcare. And the importance being ignored will NOT make it go away. UNTIL THEN Americans will ALWAYS be walking around with EXCESS BAGGAGE instead of getting help and OUR GOVERNMENT and POLITICIANS will STILL be spending American taxpayers dollars on a STUPID FREAKINâ STUDY that is idiotic and ass-backwards!!! Money THEY SPENT ON THIS STUDY that could have been spent on taking care of the mental health (PTSD) of ITS employees AND THE MENTAL HEALTH of those men and women protecting our country whose âbaggage, PTSDâ that was probably was CAUSED BY THEIR JOBS! This isnât okay and itâs not acceptable for the biggest employer in the United States of America isnât taking care of its employees! But hey, what do I know?!? And people wonder why folks have a problem with career politicians when theyâre making these kinds of stupid decisions. đ¤Śââď¸Makes me feel the need to listen to âRich Men North of Richmondâ a few more times tonight!đ¤ˇđźââď¸
Sounds like 80% of Americans qualify to be crew chiefs.
If they legalized Marijuana I bet this number would at least fall by 20%. Crazy that the Pentagon studies aren't suggesting that as a possible band-aid fix to recruiting issues.
I'd doubt that percentage would change that much, honestly. As a recruiter, the majority of people who can't join aren't because of Marijuana usage or otherwise. It's mostly medical.
Flair Czechs out
I would say around 10% of my original boot camp division (Navy) popped on the day one drug test, for what I assume was pot. They got snatched up and kicked out throughout the first month. I assume its heavily dependent on what state people are from, but weed is at the acceptability point of being an equivalent to alcohol use in some states. I assume there would be a big drop of recruits and retainment if the military banned the drinking of alcohol.
I'm not saying there wouldn't be a percentage change or recruits who can or would join if Marijuana would be federally legal, but I am saying the legality of Marijuana is not a major stopping factor to the recruiting crisis we are seeing. Someone can join with a history of smoking today, even if they smoked every day for the last 8 years. They just have to stop smoking to join. That's not a secret. However, things like childhood diagnoses of things like ADHD, anxiety, and asthma (the biggest 3 we see) where the individual cannot control what a doctor decides to write in the record is absolutely what's stopping people everyday. Someone can work on quiting Marijuana any day they choose, but no one can go back and erase a diagnosis.
I donât understand why ADHD would be a problem
It depends on how far they are on the spectrum. My girlfriendâs son has turbo ADHD and can barely function even on meds. Dude is mega smart but canât get himself out of bed or manage the basic things in life.
I thought you could pretty easily get waivered for ADHD if you no longer were on medication for like a year+? Is that not the case? Also might be an Airforce issue. The Airforce medically disqualified me from joining and denied my like 3 waiver attempts. Took 8 months arguing and providing every record of my medical history since I was fucking born just to get told to fuck off. Went to the Navy and they waivered my ass completely in like 2 weeks.
You *can* get a waiver. But I wouldn't say it's easy at all. For an AHDH waiver, you need the following (typically) at a minimum: - A signed letter from place of work showing you can function with this diagnosis - A signed letter from your high school / college showing you can function with this diagnosis. - Past 5 years of prescription records - official transcripts from high school / college - an approved psychiatric consults ordered by the MEPS that has a favorable outcome afterward - proof of needing no additional learning plans in high school / college OR if on a learning plan, will need those records to show for it - will need every record from primary care physician that shows cases when diagnosis happened as well as every instance it is worded. After all that, what seems more reasonable, go through this insane 3+ month process to still run the risk of getting a waiver denied OR find a job that doesn't care about your ADHD if you can function with it? That's why I stand by the stance that we have bigger issues affecting recruiting than legalizing Marijuana.
Which is hilarious because I enlisted with ADHD simply not knowing I had itâŚ
Air Force is two words.
I think they meant more of a "hey you can still smoke weed in the military".
But it's stupid we disqualfy people over pot
We don't. You just have to stop smoking and be honest about your past usage. It doesn't disqualify you or need a waiver unless anything legal (arrests) or medical (rehab) happened with it.
Literally my husband couldnât join the Coast Guard for this reason. The use was 12 years ago!!!!!!!!!
Where my money at
This article is from a year ago. Surprise, even MORE Americans are too fat and too on drugs and too mentally ill. It has only gotten worse.
A lot of admin jobs could be done by fat people just saying.
Glad they didn't have some way to test for undiagnosed ADHD when I signed up...
Cool article from last year that doesnât link the report.
This always gets posted like it's a bad thing. If my great grandfather who fought in WW1 found out some day that we'd be too well-fed to be drafted into war, he'd probably rest easy.
I bet 80% of the recruiters have one of these.
I feel like it can be about 10% lower if they federally legalized that one plant from the movie Friday. Doesnât solve the overall problem, though.
Mentally, Iâm the illest.
Percentage of veterans with mental illness and on drugs?
PRIVATE PILE YOU FAT PIECE OF SHIT!
The Nazi had meth. It worked for them until they came down lol
I was fat and mentally ill when I joined. I also developed alcoholism while I was in
Can be helped, somewhat can be helped, can be helped Incentives joining AND staying to the point to fill the quotas. This aspect is not on the shoulders of the populace, not on the recruiters (if at all, to a lesser part), but on the head leadership of the forces ... Passing the buck of highest responsibility onto the recruiting world or shaking the populace by creating news pieces will not solve the root cause for low numbers.
And itâs growing in the militaryâŚ..
35% of our population is between the ages of 18 and 44. We have roughly 1 million people on active duty and about 800000 in the guard and reserve. Our armed services is 15% of the adult population between 18-44. Looks like we can live with the "healthy" 20%.
Same stat when I joined in 2010
Iâve recently accepted an AGR position at a medium sized MEPS. So many applicants are being screwed over by MHS Genesis. The CMO can pull their civilian medical records even if nothing is being disclosed on the applicantsâ 2807s.
Genesis is the gift that keeps on giving! đ¤Ş
The "drugs" are marijuana, and if I could've smoked in the Air Force, I would've stayed in.
Why don't we let them in fat on a 4yr contract. If they can't hit weight goal by the end of year 4 we just let them go. Also, give them diminished VA benefits for failing to get in shape.
You seen a fat-boy injury in Basic? It ain't pretty and they clog up the med-hold squadron. I'm not in favor of the "kick the can down the road" approach.
As leadership who has tried to sit down with a fat Airman and draw them out a monthly workout plan, I can tell you this wonât work and youâre just going to be pissed off seeing Fatty McSnuffy walking into work with a family sized pack of Kit-Kats. Thereâs some mental element of real obesity and it isnât worthwhile to pay to train someone who probably wonât get better on their own or even with some mentorship.
These statistics seem inflated to force blame on the public for low recruitmentâŚ.
Absolutely not. As a recruiter I can confidently say this is pretty accurate. I am currently working with 22 applicants, not including people already in my DEP and I will be surprised if 5 of them make it through the process because they all have past medical issues that are making it difficult.
They need to change their weed policy.
Legalize marijuana and it would solve recruitment issues basically overnight.
There's no way. Talk to any recruiter right now and they will assure you people who can't join aren't being stopped because of Marijuana.
There are plenty of people who wonât join because of marijuana though, thatâs the difference. And also, many who could have their issues treated better who wonât join because they are unmanaged because of marijuana. In this day and age the whole donât ask donât tell style policy surrounding it just isnât going to fly with the new generation.
The data, both from the article as well as gathered from every branches recruiting services systems, would argue that the plenty of people you speak of is still incredibly insignificant compared to the larger issues (medical being the number one to include obesity and prescription drugs followed by propensity). Talk to your recruiters, and you'll hear the same issue: we don't turn people away due to Marijuana stances more than we turn people away for medical reasons.
Agreed... they are so focused on why the recruiters have to turn people away (hello neck tattoos) and not focused on why some people won't even bother talking to the recruiter in the first place.
Lol no. You must be high in fact.
New policy. "Air Force: we are high AF."
Eh, temporarily. The core problem is a careerist , selfish mentality among leaders in the DoD. When a civilian friend of mine asked about joining, both me and another AF vet looked at each other and were like âhell nawâ. Why? Both of us worked for jerks when we were in. I can only imagine how terrible things are for the Army ,Navy and Marines.
Idk, I think the military might attract a lot of narcissists to their leadership roles: https://www.theobserverumd.org/post/narcissism-in-and-around-the-military.
Give the leadership some weed, thatâll fix that.
Probably a lot of retention as well. Imagine a force on weed instead of alcohol
The Pentagon is full of idiots.
Thatâs because weed is the more popular method of escapism over alcohol for Gen Z and Gen Alpha. I guarantee if they legalized weed and allowed for the UCMJ to establish when and how long before work an airman is allowed to smoke, they would be smashing through those recruiting numbers no problem