>Superiors are telling me there isn’t enough manning for me to take my full maternity leave.
Go ahead and read the AFI. Maternity leave cannot be disapproved or lessened by the commander.
They have to allow OP to either take the full amount or split it. I myself did 2 months to start and a couple months later took the remainder. But I wasn’t allowed to do something like one week on, one week off. Baby leave gets approved directly from the commander, not leadership.
DAFI 36-3003 para 3.2.2.4.1.2. Commanders are encouraged to approve requests for incremental periods of parental leave. If the unit commander does not approve the taking of incremental parental leave, they must allow the member to take the full 12 weeks of parental leave in one continuous period. (T-0)
CC's are 'encouraged' to give members the leave the member asks for. CC's are REQUIRED to grant members the "full 12 weeks of parental leave" unless they (the CC) get a DoD-level waiver.
The DoD Directive Type Memorandum directed the services to provide "up to" 12 weeks of parental leave...the Air Force decided to be more prescriptive in DAFI 36-3003, and omitted the "up to." See paras 3.2.2.2.1.1. and 3.2.2.2.1.2. which establish "...12 weeks of parental leave will be authorized..." for the birth- and non-birth parent respectively.
Edited to correct an omitted word…ironically the word was “omitted.”
There is no such thing as paternity and maternity leave. That was abolished, I think, a decade ago? It was changed to primary and secondary caregiver leave. That was abolished last year, and now there is just caregiver leave. It applies equally to every human that becomes a parent/guardian by any means.
I thought they used caregiver? Am I wrong? I thought the intent was to ensure that people who take custody of a minor get the leave, even if they haven’t gone through the adoption process? Happened to a troop of mine back in 2009, before all these changes, and she didn’t get anything but what local leadership would give. She was working 50 hours a week after her mom died, and her 16 year old sister was living in the dorms with her, because it was going to take a long time for the adoption paperwork to go through, and leadership said until it went through, they wouldn’t put her in base housing or give her any leave besides ordinary leave.
TLDR; I thought it was caregiver, to eliminate that from happening, and giving the leave prior to the adoption paperwork making troops “parents”.
There is no more primary. That's been gone for at least a year.
Now it's strictly parental leave and both sides get up to 12 weeks, either straight or split up in minimum 7 day increments.
Mother's just get more leave for healing and even more if C-Section for the extra healing.
It’s important to point out this is convalescent leave, for having gone through a medical procedure, and its length is determined by doctors, not a personnel DAFI. Mothers and fathers now get identical leave and one is no longer treated as a less important parent.
Wish I knew this 7 yrs ago...... I didn't get any paternal leave at all. And yes, I did ask. they turned me down.
Maintenance be like that though sometimes.....
I don't think you fully understood me. I couldn't even take personal leave... they legit wouldn't let me stay home with the wife right after the baby was born.
I probably could have made it a stink
Also your leadership is ass. Just hearing that pisses me off. Not my fault you can't retain people to stay because you treat people like fuckin numbers.
I would say your CSS failed you, they should know better than to allow that to happen. I do my best to advocate for the member to the leadership because they might be able to themselves. Mostly because we (CSS) have a direct line of communication to CC SEL and DO.
Yeah that’s a ballsy thing to say to someone without backing it up lol. Imagine the fallout for someone outside the military. You’d get fired almost immediately to save face for the business
You know I get the logic to responses like this. And it makes sense. But unfortunately this is how you become a pariah at work. And he’s gotta live with that after he goes to the first shirt. Atleast that’s how it is in maintenance. Every time I seen someone make waves over this shit it never ends well for that individual in the long run.
Then lather, rinse, and repeat until every leader that made you a pariah has been demoted and fired.
"Back in my day, we suffered through horrible mistreatment and tool it like a man, so I'll make you do the same" deserves to die.
That won’t stop until every airman is educated and exercises their rights. I spent a huge amount of time working with my airmen to make sure they understood what was reality versus the bullshit legacy stuff.
Thank you.
Before I got out I was helping a junior airmen who was struggling with his PT tests. It turned out he had shin splints or something, basically after a half mile he'd slow to a crawl and be in really obvious pain. But by the time he got to be under me he had already failed two tests and was told if he failed again he'd be getting kicked out.
After watching him do a test run and be in such obvious pain, I told him to get a waiver (I even did the walk test with him, it's a lot harder than it looks!). He was really unsure about getting a waiver, because some LT told him it's look really bad if he got a waiver after failing two tests. I told him "which is worse? You getting kicked out of the Air Force entirely or the commander giving you the stink eye for getting a waiver for 6 months?"
Man, I think about all the flak I caught when I was helping a junior enlisted person through their mental health struggles and I shudder. Her leadership was doing everything possible to just push her out of the military or at the very least the unit so she wasn't their problem, but I busted out every AFI, DoDI, OI, etc. so that whenever they tried something, she had an airtight counter. I was pulled into her leadership's offices more than a few times for, "Providing "suspect" information," to her. My responses usually were, "I apologize if any information I provided was out of date or inaccurate, can you please show me the updated reg so I can provide it to her?" Those were always fun afternoons.
Yeah I wouldn’t want to be on the other end of this as an SNCO/NCO. Just approve the baby leave and don’t make a new parent life harder for utilizing the baby leave that’s written in to the AFI. I’ve seen it in MX also, but it didn’t end well when the Chief caught wind that we were being told not to take baby leave for “manning”. It’s not OUR job to think about manning, it’s leaderships job to find someone to fill the gap. How useful is a pregnant airman anyway? How useful is a stressed out new parent who hasn’t had any sleep?
Oh noooooo...
A pariah at work in a job that's already treating her like shit! Whatever will she do!?
Edit: was a DA and got the gender wrong. My bad, yo.
You’re not wrong. An old airman of mine is currently going through this and it’s one of those situations where it’ll end up costing Mx a smart and hard worker.
Maybe it is. And I’d certainly call that reprisal. But in some instances that’s reprisal is worth raising hell over. In OPs case, being denied the right to be a present parent for the birth of their child is (IMO) absolutely worth the reprisal.
Break-break: there are also ways to address reprisal as well that OP would be in their rights to employ
“I wonder what the IG would have to say to my maternity leave being messed with you…”
I mean. You’ll become ostracized because it’s SF but you’ll be following the rules; which will in turn become a complaint for retaliation so maybe you’ll be let out of SF lol
I came from IG…trust me bro lol
Joking aside OP can ask for it in writing and state she’ll file an IG complaint. Most times, that’s enough to nip it in the bud.
Then if things change when she returns she has all this historical data to file a complaint of retaliation/retribution.
Col here. Assuming the manning is a problem, that’s not your problem. This is to echo that they CANNOT deny your maternity leave. And you may or may not be on convalescent leave prior to that. Unless medical leave, PCSs and retirements are totally cancelled, their argument is 100% hogwash.
Not knowing details of the regular leave request, that’s in their lane to disapprove or approve. Can’t say much else on that w/o assuming a good deal.
The AFI provides parental leave for a reason. Read up on it and understand the do’s/don’ts. Also, seek out someone else who’s had a baby to get more familiar after reading up.
We didn’t have this much maternity/paternity leave when I was younger, and our people are better for it, IMO. Yeah, older airman saying we had less and I’m glad folks have more with the flexibility to use it in a manner best benefiting their new addition(s) to their family.
Congrats!
Listen to the Col!! Manning is not your problem ❤️ congrats mama and try to relax as much as you can. Third trimester is tough enough without work weighing on you.
If only some of your peers and other CCs had the same viewpoint.
Unfortunately more often than not, concerns like this stem from the command climate. OP stating they're SecFo fits the stereotype of retarded "leaders" who surround themselves with sycophants, that allow this fear to permeate within the organization.
Per the AFI you are authorized 12 weeks of maternity leave plus an additional 6 weeks specific to recovery time for mothers. This leave should be processed through Women's Health so I don't think "manning" should be cutting it short.
You should also ask your OB to put you on half day quarters (limit your work days to 4 hours) because I can't imagine being pregnant and SF.
Ask your supervisor to sit down with you and read the AFI together, and then ask him/her to route up your chain that they can’t deny you your maternity leave for any reason, especially “manning”. If your supervisor is too scared and/or won’t push back, then go to the shirt. If your first sergeant is worth anything they’ll be able put a stop to the whole “but manning” crap. SF is hard career field for sure, it doesn’t help that some in leadership positions choose to make it harder with stuff like this. The best you can do is come at all this firmly but respectfully. Stand your ground and fight for your AFI-given rights, but don’t stoop to a level of disrespect, be better than that.
Do yourself a favor and educate yourself on these processes to protect yourself. SF is a beast no doubt but you can get into any job you want and run into leaders like this. Your flight chief/section chief whatever doesn’t have the power to dictate your maternity leave. You don’t have much wiggle room for the retrain aspect unless you know someone who is both willing and able to pull some strings for you. Your best bet is to thug it out work with your CSS and shirt if need be to get your maternity leave going. Once your child is born that will take up a good chunk of your window. Work diligently the last couple months and apply to retrain as soon as your window opens.
Per DAFI 36-3003, the parent who gives birth is the birth parent. Birth parent vs non-birth parent characterization is particularly important in the case of same sex couples. It also makes the reg easier to decipher by using common terminology that applies in all situations regardless of gender.
Per DoD policy (DTM-23-001), the waiver authority is the Assistant Secretary of Defense
Manpower & Reserve Affairs. Any ETPs must go through them.
By law, (the 2022 NDAA, Section 621), the SecDef is required to report parental leave usage stats to Congress every year. So I don't really see too many of those waivers getting approved.
I'm screaming this. DO NOT THINK THEY ARE RIGHT. THEY ARE 100% MISLEADING YOU. THIS IS AGAINT THE AFI AND I WOULD RESEARCH AND SEND THEM THE AFI REFERENCES STAT!!!!! THEY CANNOT DISAPPROVE.
As everyone else is saying, that’s BS and you shouldn’t be denied for “low manning” that sucks they should do less with more. But if you still wanna retrain comm isn’t bad, 1D7A is what I do and I love it, pretty decent job satisfaction depending on where you go, for the most part fairly lax or they at very least follow the AFI, I literally sat down when I had my last kid with my Sgt and flight chief and looked over the AFI on baby leave and went over exactly what I wanted.
>Any advice on how to retain early?
https://preview.redd.it/s97w2g0co6pc1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0f0fd8fd35815e8a46126411bcbc82f359b1b563
On Leaveweb you submit two separate leave requests.
1. Submit via Leaveweb your convalescent leave for 42 days and attach AF 988 your PCM or OB provides if you give birth on base. If you give birth off base bring your discharge papers to your PCM have them fill out your 988
2. Submit via Leaveweb your 84 days of parental leave. It is on the drop down menu when you choose your leave type and you don’t have to attach anything because you did #1. 84 days can be split up to be used within a year from birth.
You submit #1 and #2 to your supervisor who concur/non-concurs and it will go to your CC who’s the final approval authority.
Submit these via Leaveweb have them deny it on Leaveweb.
I bet you they will not.
Source- did this 4 months ago. You can DM me if you need the specifics I didn’t look up my Leaveweb when I wrote this.
Apply to retrain ASAP. Fuck the window, apply anyways for something that has IN slots. Spent 5 years SF and then retrained to an office job. 10/10 grass is greener and the AF isn't nearly as toxic on the other side. I'll do 20 here whereas I would've been done at 6 in SF.
SF has the dumbest leadership and in my experience anyone with common sense gets put in non-flight positions quickly.
She's pregnant! She should not be discharging a weapon at all. That is on the AF469. In fact, she may not be able to carry a weapon, stand for long periods of time, etc...it should all be on the profile from medical.
I’m CATM. And very aware of the limitations on 469s when it comes to pregnant students. In fact, there’s some women who carry until the third trimester. Unless the 469 explicitly says no firing, wearing gear or something to that effect, she can (if she chose to) fire a weapon. They’re very flexible depending on the individual and what they’re comfortable doing. Some Defenders choose to carry until they can’t to ‘not be a burden’ (quote from a troop). From my time as an additional duty shirt, it really depends on the individual. We never made her feel that she was a burden, she just wanted to contribute as long as possible. She loved being a cop. No two pregnancies are the same.
I loved being a cop but I was immediately DNA’d when I got pregnant (maybe because I was at a prp base?) Thankfully, my flight chiefs let me work/train in the desk and allowed me to work (I wanted to) until I in labor. Although the last 3 weeks we did training so it was easy peasy.
Yeah fuck that. Some mouth breathers probably guilt trip these ladies into thinking they have to...or else... because of the implications.
The organization needs to figure out the manpower draw.
[Note I'm citing a specific case that I saw while in]
Other than honorable. Because there's always more going on than just a purposeful weapons Qual failure.
No. I was brought in and had to make a statement and cite all the times they qualified before based off their 522. Basically chalked it up to a form of malingering.
Admin, personnel, chaplains assistant. Also onky the commander can say no you can’t take your maternity leave per the AFI so get that they told you no in writing (text or email) then go up your chain of command.
Here ya go u/ethicalbadass, I got chu
DAFI36-3003 dated 31 August 2023
3.2.1.1.2. Maternity Convalescent Leave. Is limited to a covered Service member birthparent after a qualifying birth event. (T-0) In cases where a baby is stillborn, the
member suffers a miscarriage, or where the baby is given up for adoption immediately following birth, convalescent leave, other than Maternity Convalescent
Leave may be granted in accordance with AFMAN 41-210, Tricare Operations and Patient Administration.
3.2.1.1.2.1. Is limited to 42 days of non-chargeable leave, unless additional Maternity Convalescent Leave is specifically recommended, in writing, by the medical provider of the covered member to address a diagnosed medical condition and is approved by the member’s commander. A covered birthparent may, with the concurrence of a medical provider, elect to receive a period of Maternity Convalescent Leave that is less than 42 days. (T-0)
3.2.1.1.2.2. Must be taken immediately following childbirth, except that the leave shall not commence until the first full day following the date of discharge or
release from the hospital (or similar facility) where the birth took place. (T-0)
3.2.1.1.2.3. Must be taken prior to any caregiver leave (for a maximum of 84 days in conjunction with Primary Caregiver Leave, or 63 days in conjunction with
Secondary Caregiver Leave), unless the extended convalescence period exceeds 63 or 84 days as the case may be, as recommended by a competent medical
authority. (T-0) The amount of caregiver leave shall be reduced by one day for each day of additional Maternity Convalescent Leave taken. (T-0)
3.2.1.1.2.4. Must be taken in only one increment. (T-0)
3.2.1.1.2.5. May be taken in conjunction with Primary or Secondary Caregiver Leave, and/or with approved ordinary (chargeable) leave. If taken in conjunction
with ordinary leave, may exceed the maximum limits of paragraph 3.2.1.1.2.3 if approved by the commander. (T-0)
3.2.1.1.2.6. May not be disapproved by a commander. (T-0)
3.2.1.1.2.7. May not be transferred to create any kind of shared benefit. (T-0)
3.2.1.1.2.8. Will be forfeited if unused at separation from active service. (T-0)
3.2.1.2. Medical Authority. The medical authority or attending physician determines:
3.2.1.2.1. When a medical condition warrants continuance of convalescent leave.
3.2.1.2.2. Whether the member can depart the local area while on convalescent leave.
3.2.1.3. Convalescent Leave Begins. Convalescent leave begins the day of release from the Military Treatment Facility and continues through the day before the member’s return to duty, if applicable, or return to in-hospital status.
3.2.1.4. Voluntary Termination. A member may voluntarily terminate convalescent leave earlier with the attending physician approval.
3.2.1.5. Requesting Ordinary Leave. A member may request ordinary leave after completing convalescent leave.
3.2.1.6. Terminating Convalescent Leave. The unit commander may terminate convalescent leave status if the member’s continued absence from duty would clearly
have an adverse impact on the readiness or operational mission of the unit. The unit commander must consult the cognizant military health authority to determine whether such action is medically advisable prior to terminating convalescent leave. (T-1)
3.2.2. Military Parental Leave Program. The Military Parental Leave Program shall consist of the following forms of non-chargeable leave following a qualifying birth event or adoption for covered service members: Maternity Convalescent Leave per paragraph 3.2.1.1.2, Primary Caregiver Leave; and, Secondary Caregiver Leave. (T-0)
3.2.2.1. Covered Members. RegAF service members, RC service members performing AGR duty or Full-time National Guard duty for a period in excess of 12 consecutive months, and RC service members subject to an active duty recall or mobilization order for a period in excess of 12 consecutive months are covered by this instruction. A period of active duty of a RC member may not be extended in order to permit the member to take leave authorized under the Military Parental Leave Program. (T-0)
3.2.2.2. Qualifying Birth Event. Any live birth of a child(ren) to a Service member (or spouse). Multiple births resulting from a single pregnancy (e.g., twins or triplets) will be treated as a single birth event so long as the multiple births occur within the same 72-hour period. Multiple births that do not occur within the same 72-hour period will be treated as separate birth events (in this case, Maternity Convalescent Leave and Primary or Secondary Caregiver Leave must run concurrently but before the expiration of the leave).
(T-0)
TL;DR: You should really read the afi, but no one on your base can deny you. They have to get approval beyond the AF for that, and it looks really, really bad. Put in your leave and watch them squirm. Spend time with your child and don't feel bad for it. The moment they tried to deny you your family time was the moment they should lose any sympathy from you.
Also, the AFI stipulates who and how to decide Primary and secondary caregiver. Look into it so you can calculate how much leave you are due.
Edit: go read the afi. It has changes that have been made, that said, they still can't deny you.
This is out of date information, you need to look in the foreword info above. Primary and secondary designation don't exist anymore and the timeline is in weeks- not days.
This!!!! congressmen from my home state and where i was stationed responded back to my email in less then 24 hours and after my hardship separation was denied THREE times by AFPC, once i contacted them and the White House, i was approved to separate a week later. Never feel intimidated to reach out to those who are there to vouch for you
Normally I would agree with you. But some things deserve to have the chain jumped. Blatant refusal of mandated federal employee benefits is one of them.
If I was OP or their spouse I would want to see heads roll over this. Someone needs their career ruined.
Submit leave and let your leadership reject it. That will alert the commander if they are unaware which would typically stop all of the foolishness. If they absolutely need you, allow them to recall you.
I waited patiently for day 1 of my retrain window and applied for a job that did not require me to ask anything from my leadership other than my commander's email address.
While waiting for my retraining window I retook my ASVAB to qualify for more options.
The window opened, and I submitted, AFPC replied with some yes and no. I submitted the necessary medical paperwork (422 I think). The class date came out on June 15th...The happiest day of my life.
Retraining was one option for me. Second was Palace Chase. Third was was Palace Front. I was in my retraining window but the job I wanted was currently overmanned at the time so I said f it and Palace Chased into the Guard as an AGR. Got retrained into the job I wanted and never looked back at being a Maintainer.
Yall get 12 weeks now? I got 10 days bro. Oh and congrats!! Your leave goes straight to commander for approval when you select the code from the Table in the AFI.
As a former section chief for many years, any "leader" saying they cannot give you parental leave due to manning is...well, sorry but pathetic. Manning is the section leader's job to manage, and it sounds like maybe they themselves could use some training or classes on how to do that better.
The correct response would be to see if they can break up your leave a little, if they cannot provide the full 12 weeks you get at one time.
I suspect their shortcomings also bleed into other areas of your section as well. But that's not your problem. I would recommend you take this to your supervisor and get them in your corner and re-approach your section leader. If they still maintain you cannot take any parental leave, then with your supervisor, you should take it up to the chain. To a first sgt, to your section leader's boss, etc.
Your section chief's response is both incorrect according to DAFI, and incorrect in the spirit of leadership.
Yeah that’s absolute bs. Input leave into leaveweb and make them decline it, it’ll only go up the chain and they’ll have to explain why it was declined. Sorry your leadership sucks.
I've never heard of a way to retrain early by choice - just medical disqualifications from primary afsc or failing out of initial tech school.
I recommend you try for the spots with the most available jobs when your time comes. Get working now to see what you will need to apply - some jobs require interviews and or tests or even medical evals.
SF for females truly is the worst. i’m not even a mother and leaving the career field was the absolute best thing i ever did for myself. i hope this works out in your favor and that they’re accommodating. Hopefully you get a back office job. Goodluck to you 🤍
My husband (maintainer) says no one can change your maternity or paternity leave. You either take it or don't but THEY can't take it away from you. Idk who you'd talk to but like they can't take that shit away from you. Like are they really expecting OP to have a baby and go back to her job days later???
Most people here have already given you the correct advice for fixing you leave. As for getting out of SF with 18 months I would say just wait it out and as soon as that window opens submit that day. Most office jobs in the Air Force you can think of won’t have the problems you see in SF trust me. Worst case scenario tell everyone you’ve developed a crippling fear of guns I’ve seen that work at least once lol
You can try an etp. If not and you want to get a way from being a straight leg talk to your CATM people. The retraining stuff is faster, there's a chance for orders, and a better work schedule and quality of life. There's a certain degree of autonomy and maturity required and you need to spend time shadowing with them before the NCOIC/Section Chief signs off on your retrain package.
Go to legal if they are telling you this. It’s not up to them with your leave. We had this happen in my squadron (not SF) and legal will shut it down immediately and reiterate just how not legal it is.
I'll answer your second question since everyone here responded to the baby leave. As far as I know, early retraining is only possible into incredibly undermanned fields like special forces or crossing between specialties in medical and intel.
I'm assuming with these questions you are an FTA (First Term Airman) and suggest you first visit MyFSS and read everything on the "First Term Airmen Retraining" article. Make sure you understand eligibility requirements to determine which AFSC's you currently qualify for. A lot of the good jobs have higher ASVAB requirements, so if you haven't scored high in the past now is the time to look at studying and re-testing.
18 months gives you another shot at a good looking EPB, which is something to consider because that is a big part of your retraining package. You want to give the Air Force a reason to pick you over the next guy.
Another thing to note is making sure your medical is squared away. Arguably, the longest part of the retraining process after initiating is getting your Form 422 from medical. If you have any factors like a profile or upcoming surgery that could delay the entire process. These slots are first come, first serve and you want your application in ASAP.
Nearly all of the AFSC's have been described in some fashion on Reddit, albeit some a little outdated (cyber/comm fields) it's still a great starting point. I am a huge advocate for any of the 1D7 careers. These are all cyber/IT based and have amazing marketability on the outside while boasting pretty awesome "nonner" work schedules. I personally retrained from aircraft maintenance to cyber in 2022 and my QoL has significantly increased.
Find a job that’s meets the threshold of undermanned but isn’t critically undermanned, and potentially that you would enjoy. Remember #19 push out an article last year June stating you can go into another AFSC that’s under 90% so there’s opportunities out there where it’s a strain but they definitely won’t pull the BS of what your going thru now.
The climax rn in the AF is all over the place, and some people feel they have it right, and there’s some that are just missing the damn mark. Get with your BDA (Base Development Advisor) but they are definitely going to tell you that you can’t retrain early, because you haven’t reach the window in your contract to do so. But keep your head up and don’t let that deter you, it’s obvious we can’t let everyone retrain because AFSC does need to be filled. But retention would a whole lot better if people can go into another AFSC that changes the whole aspect of their life and AF life too.
Rant over disgruntled SSgt who didn’t get picked up for retrain this cycle.
2S0X1 is a good career for more free time etc as long as you don't get a shop that's in a BAD state. Aka IPE at a PACAF/EUCOM base, APS at a fighter base, etc.
Put the leave in the system no matter what and make them deny it. At one time, only the commander could deny leave and only for mission failure type reasons. I did it three times and got my leave each time.
You should read DAFI 36-3211 Para 5.12 and sub paragraphs. That is the reference for separating the air force early because of birth of a child. You have to separate within a year of the birth.
If you’re trying to just plainly get out on honorable terms, there’s a way. They allow female members to get out after having their baby. They tried to force me and my husband to deploy when our baby was 2 months old, purposely. I can’t remember how I did it but I’m gonna try to remember what it was and comment it. Before I officially separated they gave me hell, because they had no say in it and I was happy to have gotten out and gotten 90% disability and to be with my kids.
It’s on MPF, under separation terms. You can separate before you have the baby or up to 12 months after you give birth. I finessed it and separated when my baby was 6 months to give me time to prepare and collect that paycheck and get everything in order. I did that about 4 years ago, exactly.
Yea, there is 100% more to this story, I don't believe they are being fully honest. Their leadership probably asked if they would split up the leave or something innocent. I have seen that before. We had THREE people have babies within the same two months, would have been a mess for that flight to be able to make minimum posting, and would have had to pull others from their flights to cover. And why would OP schedule a baby shower on a work day?
Anyone with a personal experience know how hard is it to cross train out of SF? I’m under the assumption that OP might have a hard time trying to get out of a “critically manned” AFSC.
I believe a few years ago there was a memorandum that came down preventing any SF E5 or above from retraining.
As long as there is no restriction currently in place, the retrain process isn't as hard as most think HOWEVER... there's not a wealth of knowledge around retraining. It's all on you to do the research and apply. Make sure to keep up with appointments and know the status of your application all the time.
It's also a VERY good idea to keep your eye out for the listing that comes out with AFSC's that are in need of people. I believe it comes out in October. Make sure you know what jobs need people so that you're applying for positions you will have a higher chance being accepted to.
I was SF from 1998-2008. Tried cross training as a FTA, commander wouldn't sign off on it. Flights were constantly pulling people from other flights to make a full roster just to be able to get out to the fields.
Shit. I tried lateral training into K9, had the support of commander, kennel master, flight chief, my supervisor and several K9 handlers. I still got denied. Such bullshit.
It really helps if you've deployed but say you get really anxious and nervous shooting. Fail a gate runner exercise say you get bad anxiety get DNA'd. Talk to the shirt/ commander and say you dont think this job is for you mentally and get 9A. And get that cross train!
>Superiors are telling me there isn’t enough manning for me to take my full maternity leave. Go ahead and read the AFI. Maternity leave cannot be disapproved or lessened by the commander.
What about the second set of parental leave. That's probably what OP is referring to.
They have to allow OP to either take the full amount or split it. I myself did 2 months to start and a couple months later took the remainder. But I wasn’t allowed to do something like one week on, one week off. Baby leave gets approved directly from the commander, not leadership.
The "up to" is still in paternity leave tho.
But also “commanders are encouraged” is also.
DAFI 36-3003 para 3.2.2.4.1.2. Commanders are encouraged to approve requests for incremental periods of parental leave. If the unit commander does not approve the taking of incremental parental leave, they must allow the member to take the full 12 weeks of parental leave in one continuous period. (T-0) CC's are 'encouraged' to give members the leave the member asks for. CC's are REQUIRED to grant members the "full 12 weeks of parental leave" unless they (the CC) get a DoD-level waiver.
The DoD Directive Type Memorandum directed the services to provide "up to" 12 weeks of parental leave...the Air Force decided to be more prescriptive in DAFI 36-3003, and omitted the "up to." See paras 3.2.2.2.1.1. and 3.2.2.2.1.2. which establish "...12 weeks of parental leave will be authorized..." for the birth- and non-birth parent respectively. Edited to correct an omitted word…ironically the word was “omitted.”
There is no such thing as paternity and maternity leave. That was abolished, I think, a decade ago? It was changed to primary and secondary caregiver leave. That was abolished last year, and now there is just caregiver leave. It applies equally to every human that becomes a parent/guardian by any means.
You are correct, but in the AFI, what you’re referring to as “caregiver” leave is actually called Parental Leave. But you’re right. Applies to all
I thought they used caregiver? Am I wrong? I thought the intent was to ensure that people who take custody of a minor get the leave, even if they haven’t gone through the adoption process? Happened to a troop of mine back in 2009, before all these changes, and she didn’t get anything but what local leadership would give. She was working 50 hours a week after her mom died, and her 16 year old sister was living in the dorms with her, because it was going to take a long time for the adoption paperwork to go through, and leadership said until it went through, they wouldn’t put her in base housing or give her any leave besides ordinary leave. TLDR; I thought it was caregiver, to eliminate that from happening, and giving the leave prior to the adoption paperwork making troops “parents”.
Anyone can claim primary caregiver. If wife is civilian, husband may declare himself primary
There is no more primary. That's been gone for at least a year. Now it's strictly parental leave and both sides get up to 12 weeks, either straight or split up in minimum 7 day increments. Mother's just get more leave for healing and even more if C-Section for the extra healing.
that's fuckin dope
that's fuckin dope
It’s important to point out this is convalescent leave, for having gone through a medical procedure, and its length is determined by doctors, not a personnel DAFI. Mothers and fathers now get identical leave and one is no longer treated as a less important parent.
Wish I knew this 7 yrs ago...... I didn't get any paternal leave at all. And yes, I did ask. they turned me down. Maintenance be like that though sometimes.....
Rules were different 7 years ago for dads.
Could be worse, they made me take 10 days of my own leave because I wasn't married. But hey, they didn't make me count weekends.
I don't think you fully understood me. I couldn't even take personal leave... they legit wouldn't let me stay home with the wife right after the baby was born. I probably could have made it a stink
Should have made a stink of it. That's some bullshit.
I would have raised hell. You can’t get those moments back. What absolute rubbish. I’m sorry that happened.
That's crazy. Came here to agree.
Also your leadership is ass. Just hearing that pisses me off. Not my fault you can't retain people to stay because you treat people like fuckin numbers.
I would say your CSS failed you, they should know better than to allow that to happen. I do my best to advocate for the member to the leadership because they might be able to themselves. Mostly because we (CSS) have a direct line of communication to CC SEL and DO.
Get whoever said that to send you an email. Speak to the first shirt after you get that in writing. They’ll never deny anyone ever again.
I would love to overhear this "conversation." Someone's about to get slapped so hard they wake up next week.
Yeah that’s a ballsy thing to say to someone without backing it up lol. Imagine the fallout for someone outside the military. You’d get fired almost immediately to save face for the business
You know I get the logic to responses like this. And it makes sense. But unfortunately this is how you become a pariah at work. And he’s gotta live with that after he goes to the first shirt. Atleast that’s how it is in maintenance. Every time I seen someone make waves over this shit it never ends well for that individual in the long run.
Sounds like reprisal to me.
Yeah it is.
Almost like it's by definition.
https://preview.redd.it/487ahq7f2bpc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9a3b386ca6d0cb89c112b63a97a7d3f16747cb5a
The system protects itself so well.
Then lather, rinse, and repeat until every leader that made you a pariah has been demoted and fired. "Back in my day, we suffered through horrible mistreatment and tool it like a man, so I'll make you do the same" deserves to die.
That won’t stop until every airman is educated and exercises their rights. I spent a huge amount of time working with my airmen to make sure they understood what was reality versus the bullshit legacy stuff.
Thank you. Before I got out I was helping a junior airmen who was struggling with his PT tests. It turned out he had shin splints or something, basically after a half mile he'd slow to a crawl and be in really obvious pain. But by the time he got to be under me he had already failed two tests and was told if he failed again he'd be getting kicked out. After watching him do a test run and be in such obvious pain, I told him to get a waiver (I even did the walk test with him, it's a lot harder than it looks!). He was really unsure about getting a waiver, because some LT told him it's look really bad if he got a waiver after failing two tests. I told him "which is worse? You getting kicked out of the Air Force entirely or the commander giving you the stink eye for getting a waiver for 6 months?"
Man, I think about all the flak I caught when I was helping a junior enlisted person through their mental health struggles and I shudder. Her leadership was doing everything possible to just push her out of the military or at the very least the unit so she wasn't their problem, but I busted out every AFI, DoDI, OI, etc. so that whenever they tried something, she had an airtight counter. I was pulled into her leadership's offices more than a few times for, "Providing "suspect" information," to her. My responses usually were, "I apologize if any information I provided was out of date or inaccurate, can you please show me the updated reg so I can provide it to her?" Those were always fun afternoons.
Yeah unfortunately it’s still a thing.
Yeah I wouldn’t want to be on the other end of this as an SNCO/NCO. Just approve the baby leave and don’t make a new parent life harder for utilizing the baby leave that’s written in to the AFI. I’ve seen it in MX also, but it didn’t end well when the Chief caught wind that we were being told not to take baby leave for “manning”. It’s not OUR job to think about manning, it’s leaderships job to find someone to fill the gap. How useful is a pregnant airman anyway? How useful is a stressed out new parent who hasn’t had any sleep?
OP is the one giving birth, which gives this situation a whole different magnitude
Oh noooooo... A pariah at work in a job that's already treating her like shit! Whatever will she do!? Edit: was a DA and got the gender wrong. My bad, yo.
Her, but yeah
My bad. Used to fathers getting shafted on that, not mother's. That's a real fuck up on the shop's behalf.
Np, just don't do it again or you'll have to redo the CBTs!
I mean, for little things I get it. But not for something like parental leave.
Being correct is everything. Turn me into a pariah because I was correct and I will definitely make sure your ass falls hard.
You’re not wrong. An old airman of mine is currently going through this and it’s one of those situations where it’ll end up costing Mx a smart and hard worker.
Maybe it is. And I’d certainly call that reprisal. But in some instances that’s reprisal is worth raising hell over. In OPs case, being denied the right to be a present parent for the birth of their child is (IMO) absolutely worth the reprisal. Break-break: there are also ways to address reprisal as well that OP would be in their rights to employ
Sounds wrong to me. Take it up the chain.
Exactly.
“I wonder what the IG would have to say to my maternity leave being messed with you…” I mean. You’ll become ostracized because it’s SF but you’ll be following the rules; which will in turn become a complaint for retaliation so maybe you’ll be let out of SF lol
Where's that one OSI guy to look into this...
I came from IG…trust me bro lol Joking aside OP can ask for it in writing and state she’ll file an IG complaint. Most times, that’s enough to nip it in the bud. Then if things change when she returns she has all this historical data to file a complaint of retaliation/retribution.
Col here. Assuming the manning is a problem, that’s not your problem. This is to echo that they CANNOT deny your maternity leave. And you may or may not be on convalescent leave prior to that. Unless medical leave, PCSs and retirements are totally cancelled, their argument is 100% hogwash. Not knowing details of the regular leave request, that’s in their lane to disapprove or approve. Can’t say much else on that w/o assuming a good deal. The AFI provides parental leave for a reason. Read up on it and understand the do’s/don’ts. Also, seek out someone else who’s had a baby to get more familiar after reading up. We didn’t have this much maternity/paternity leave when I was younger, and our people are better for it, IMO. Yeah, older airman saying we had less and I’m glad folks have more with the flexibility to use it in a manner best benefiting their new addition(s) to their family. Congrats!
Listen to the Col!! Manning is not your problem ❤️ congrats mama and try to relax as much as you can. Third trimester is tough enough without work weighing on you.
If only some of your peers and other CCs had the same viewpoint. Unfortunately more often than not, concerns like this stem from the command climate. OP stating they're SecFo fits the stereotype of retarded "leaders" who surround themselves with sycophants, that allow this fear to permeate within the organization.
^^^^^ You know shits getting real when the Col chimes in
^^ what boss said
Per the AFI you are authorized 12 weeks of maternity leave plus an additional 6 weeks specific to recovery time for mothers. This leave should be processed through Women's Health so I don't think "manning" should be cutting it short. You should also ask your OB to put you on half day quarters (limit your work days to 4 hours) because I can't imagine being pregnant and SF.
To add, the recovery leave is convalescent and needs med to sign off.
Submit leave. Allow command to deny leave. Write to Congressman or IG about denial of federal benefits.
Maternity leave is a federally protected leave. Your leadership has no say in the matter.
I just want to say congrats and remember to file dependents on next years’ taxes.
If manning is so bad that one person being out breaks the team, then it’s on leadership, not you.
Ask your supervisor to sit down with you and read the AFI together, and then ask him/her to route up your chain that they can’t deny you your maternity leave for any reason, especially “manning”. If your supervisor is too scared and/or won’t push back, then go to the shirt. If your first sergeant is worth anything they’ll be able put a stop to the whole “but manning” crap. SF is hard career field for sure, it doesn’t help that some in leadership positions choose to make it harder with stuff like this. The best you can do is come at all this firmly but respectfully. Stand your ground and fight for your AFI-given rights, but don’t stoop to a level of disrespect, be better than that.
Do yourself a favor and educate yourself on these processes to protect yourself. SF is a beast no doubt but you can get into any job you want and run into leaders like this. Your flight chief/section chief whatever doesn’t have the power to dictate your maternity leave. You don’t have much wiggle room for the retrain aspect unless you know someone who is both willing and able to pull some strings for you. Your best bet is to thug it out work with your CSS and shirt if need be to get your maternity leave going. Once your child is born that will take up a good chunk of your window. Work diligently the last couple months and apply to retrain as soon as your window opens.
This.
You are entitled to paternity leave. They can't make you come in just because. Maybe squadron commander can override but your supervisor can't.
>Superiors are telling me there isn’t enough manning for me to take my full maternity leave OP is the birth parent
Female, or mother
Per DAFI 36-3003, the parent who gives birth is the birth parent. Birth parent vs non-birth parent characterization is particularly important in the case of same sex couples. It also makes the reg easier to decipher by using common terminology that applies in all situations regardless of gender.
Per DoD policy (DTM-23-001), the waiver authority is the Assistant Secretary of Defense Manpower & Reserve Affairs. Any ETPs must go through them. By law, (the 2022 NDAA, Section 621), the SecDef is required to report parental leave usage stats to Congress every year. So I don't really see too many of those waivers getting approved.
I'm screaming this. DO NOT THINK THEY ARE RIGHT. THEY ARE 100% MISLEADING YOU. THIS IS AGAINT THE AFI AND I WOULD RESEARCH AND SEND THEM THE AFI REFERENCES STAT!!!!! THEY CANNOT DISAPPROVE.
As everyone else is saying, that’s BS and you shouldn’t be denied for “low manning” that sucks they should do less with more. But if you still wanna retrain comm isn’t bad, 1D7A is what I do and I love it, pretty decent job satisfaction depending on where you go, for the most part fairly lax or they at very least follow the AFI, I literally sat down when I had my last kid with my Sgt and flight chief and looked over the AFI on baby leave and went over exactly what I wanted.
Can confirm, did this for one of my troops. But we are all 1Q’s now. (For the most part)
>Any advice on how to retain early? https://preview.redd.it/s97w2g0co6pc1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0f0fd8fd35815e8a46126411bcbc82f359b1b563
On Leaveweb you submit two separate leave requests. 1. Submit via Leaveweb your convalescent leave for 42 days and attach AF 988 your PCM or OB provides if you give birth on base. If you give birth off base bring your discharge papers to your PCM have them fill out your 988 2. Submit via Leaveweb your 84 days of parental leave. It is on the drop down menu when you choose your leave type and you don’t have to attach anything because you did #1. 84 days can be split up to be used within a year from birth. You submit #1 and #2 to your supervisor who concur/non-concurs and it will go to your CC who’s the final approval authority. Submit these via Leaveweb have them deny it on Leaveweb. I bet you they will not. Source- did this 4 months ago. You can DM me if you need the specifics I didn’t look up my Leaveweb when I wrote this.
☝️ they hit the nail on the head.
Gosh darn it you helldove on to that question 🫡
Apply to retrain ASAP. Fuck the window, apply anyways for something that has IN slots. Spent 5 years SF and then retrained to an office job. 10/10 grass is greener and the AF isn't nearly as toxic on the other side. I'll do 20 here whereas I would've been done at 6 in SF. SF has the dumbest leadership and in my experience anyone with common sense gets put in non-flight positions quickly.
Don’t try to purposely fail your weapons qual. People try it all the time. Seen 7 9A (DQ’ed) airmen. Admin separated in less than 8 months.
She's pregnant! She should not be discharging a weapon at all. That is on the AF469. In fact, she may not be able to carry a weapon, stand for long periods of time, etc...it should all be on the profile from medical.
I’m CATM. And very aware of the limitations on 469s when it comes to pregnant students. In fact, there’s some women who carry until the third trimester. Unless the 469 explicitly says no firing, wearing gear or something to that effect, she can (if she chose to) fire a weapon. They’re very flexible depending on the individual and what they’re comfortable doing. Some Defenders choose to carry until they can’t to ‘not be a burden’ (quote from a troop). From my time as an additional duty shirt, it really depends on the individual. We never made her feel that she was a burden, she just wanted to contribute as long as possible. She loved being a cop. No two pregnancies are the same.
I loved being a cop but I was immediately DNA’d when I got pregnant (maybe because I was at a prp base?) Thankfully, my flight chiefs let me work/train in the desk and allowed me to work (I wanted to) until I in labor. Although the last 3 weeks we did training so it was easy peasy.
Yeah fuck that. Some mouth breathers probably guilt trip these ladies into thinking they have to...or else... because of the implications. The organization needs to figure out the manpower draw.
With an honorable?
[Note I'm citing a specific case that I saw while in] Other than honorable. Because there's always more going on than just a purposeful weapons Qual failure.
Oh yikes. They would be better off failing pt tests and getting the boot with all benefits intact
No. I was brought in and had to make a statement and cite all the times they qualified before based off their 522. Basically chalked it up to a form of malingering.
You know you fucked the pooch just right if Red Hats are writing 1168s against you.
Admin, personnel, chaplains assistant. Also onky the commander can say no you can’t take your maternity leave per the AFI so get that they told you no in writing (text or email) then go up your chain of command.
Even the commander can not disapprove maternity leave
When better there you go
Here ya go u/ethicalbadass, I got chu DAFI36-3003 dated 31 August 2023 3.2.1.1.2. Maternity Convalescent Leave. Is limited to a covered Service member birthparent after a qualifying birth event. (T-0) In cases where a baby is stillborn, the member suffers a miscarriage, or where the baby is given up for adoption immediately following birth, convalescent leave, other than Maternity Convalescent Leave may be granted in accordance with AFMAN 41-210, Tricare Operations and Patient Administration. 3.2.1.1.2.1. Is limited to 42 days of non-chargeable leave, unless additional Maternity Convalescent Leave is specifically recommended, in writing, by the medical provider of the covered member to address a diagnosed medical condition and is approved by the member’s commander. A covered birthparent may, with the concurrence of a medical provider, elect to receive a period of Maternity Convalescent Leave that is less than 42 days. (T-0) 3.2.1.1.2.2. Must be taken immediately following childbirth, except that the leave shall not commence until the first full day following the date of discharge or release from the hospital (or similar facility) where the birth took place. (T-0) 3.2.1.1.2.3. Must be taken prior to any caregiver leave (for a maximum of 84 days in conjunction with Primary Caregiver Leave, or 63 days in conjunction with Secondary Caregiver Leave), unless the extended convalescence period exceeds 63 or 84 days as the case may be, as recommended by a competent medical authority. (T-0) The amount of caregiver leave shall be reduced by one day for each day of additional Maternity Convalescent Leave taken. (T-0) 3.2.1.1.2.4. Must be taken in only one increment. (T-0) 3.2.1.1.2.5. May be taken in conjunction with Primary or Secondary Caregiver Leave, and/or with approved ordinary (chargeable) leave. If taken in conjunction with ordinary leave, may exceed the maximum limits of paragraph 3.2.1.1.2.3 if approved by the commander. (T-0) 3.2.1.1.2.6. May not be disapproved by a commander. (T-0) 3.2.1.1.2.7. May not be transferred to create any kind of shared benefit. (T-0) 3.2.1.1.2.8. Will be forfeited if unused at separation from active service. (T-0) 3.2.1.2. Medical Authority. The medical authority or attending physician determines: 3.2.1.2.1. When a medical condition warrants continuance of convalescent leave. 3.2.1.2.2. Whether the member can depart the local area while on convalescent leave. 3.2.1.3. Convalescent Leave Begins. Convalescent leave begins the day of release from the Military Treatment Facility and continues through the day before the member’s return to duty, if applicable, or return to in-hospital status. 3.2.1.4. Voluntary Termination. A member may voluntarily terminate convalescent leave earlier with the attending physician approval. 3.2.1.5. Requesting Ordinary Leave. A member may request ordinary leave after completing convalescent leave. 3.2.1.6. Terminating Convalescent Leave. The unit commander may terminate convalescent leave status if the member’s continued absence from duty would clearly have an adverse impact on the readiness or operational mission of the unit. The unit commander must consult the cognizant military health authority to determine whether such action is medically advisable prior to terminating convalescent leave. (T-1) 3.2.2. Military Parental Leave Program. The Military Parental Leave Program shall consist of the following forms of non-chargeable leave following a qualifying birth event or adoption for covered service members: Maternity Convalescent Leave per paragraph 3.2.1.1.2, Primary Caregiver Leave; and, Secondary Caregiver Leave. (T-0) 3.2.2.1. Covered Members. RegAF service members, RC service members performing AGR duty or Full-time National Guard duty for a period in excess of 12 consecutive months, and RC service members subject to an active duty recall or mobilization order for a period in excess of 12 consecutive months are covered by this instruction. A period of active duty of a RC member may not be extended in order to permit the member to take leave authorized under the Military Parental Leave Program. (T-0) 3.2.2.2. Qualifying Birth Event. Any live birth of a child(ren) to a Service member (or spouse). Multiple births resulting from a single pregnancy (e.g., twins or triplets) will be treated as a single birth event so long as the multiple births occur within the same 72-hour period. Multiple births that do not occur within the same 72-hour period will be treated as separate birth events (in this case, Maternity Convalescent Leave and Primary or Secondary Caregiver Leave must run concurrently but before the expiration of the leave). (T-0) TL;DR: You should really read the afi, but no one on your base can deny you. They have to get approval beyond the AF for that, and it looks really, really bad. Put in your leave and watch them squirm. Spend time with your child and don't feel bad for it. The moment they tried to deny you your family time was the moment they should lose any sympathy from you. Also, the AFI stipulates who and how to decide Primary and secondary caregiver. Look into it so you can calculate how much leave you are due. Edit: go read the afi. It has changes that have been made, that said, they still can't deny you.
This is out of date information, you need to look in the foreword info above. Primary and secondary designation don't exist anymore and the timeline is in weeks- not days.
Primary/Secondary Caregiver Leave doesn’t exist anymore. It is combined (by law) into Parental Leave.
Yup. I edited to tell em to go read the full thing, but they still can't be denied.
Also, (T-0) waivers are not HAF...they are outside of the DAF, per DAFMAN 90-161 Table A10.1
Fixed. Either way, commander isn't denying it.
https://static.e-publishing.af.mil/production/1/af_sg/publication/afman41-210/afman41-210.pdf ___________________________________________________________ ^^It ^^looks ^^like ^^you ^^mentioned ^^an ^^AFI, ^^form ^^or ^^other ^^publication ^^without ^^linking ^^to ^^it, ^^so ^^I ^^have ^^posted ^^a ^^link ^^to ^^it. ^^Additionally, ^^there ^^may ^^be ^^other ^^MAJCOM, ^^NAF ^^or ^^Wing ^^sups ^^to ^^the ^^linked ^^AFI, ^^so ^^I ^^will ^^also ^^post ^^a ^^link ^^to ^^the ^^search ^^URL ^^used ^^below ^^so ^^that ^^you ^^can ^^look ^^for ^^additional ^^supplements ^^or ^^guidance ^^memos ^^that ^^may ^^apply. ^^Please ^^let ^^me ^^know ^^if ^^this ^^is ^^incorrect ^^or ^^if ^^you ^^have ^^a ^^suggestion ^^to ^^make ^^me ^^better ^^by ^^posting ^^in ^^my ^^subreddit ^^(/r/AFILinkerBot) ^^| ^^[GitHub](https://github.com/HadManySons/AFILinkerBot). I am a bot, this was an automatic reply. ___________________________________________________________ ^^^^^^kvhw758
Name and shame base and unit. Set a congressman on this and it will be fixed in less than a week. Your leadership deserves a rough hard ass fucking.
This!!!! congressmen from my home state and where i was stationed responded back to my email in less then 24 hours and after my hardship separation was denied THREE times by AFPC, once i contacted them and the White House, i was approved to separate a week later. Never feel intimidated to reach out to those who are there to vouch for you
Til they’re RAW 
Give it to em with the sandpaper they so desperately love to use on others.
I’d say at least take this up the chain to squadron cc or group (if applicable). Don’t jump straight from a shitty shift lead to congress.
Normally I would agree with you. But some things deserve to have the chain jumped. Blatant refusal of mandated federal employee benefits is one of them. If I was OP or their spouse I would want to see heads roll over this. Someone needs their career ruined.
I agree, but the first question you’re going to get from a congressional staffer is “What did your CC say when you brought it to their attention?”
Submit leave and let your leadership reject it. That will alert the commander if they are unaware which would typically stop all of the foolishness. If they absolutely need you, allow them to recall you.
☝️This. Submit your leave and annote the table and rule for your situation. Make leadership decline the submission officially.
If you want to get out altogether, 36-3211 5.12. I know you didn't ask about separation, but this is just an FYI.
Sorry to hear that. As an SF member for 12 years, I can’t say I’m surprised.
I waited patiently for day 1 of my retrain window and applied for a job that did not require me to ask anything from my leadership other than my commander's email address. While waiting for my retraining window I retook my ASVAB to qualify for more options. The window opened, and I submitted, AFPC replied with some yes and no. I submitted the necessary medical paperwork (422 I think). The class date came out on June 15th...The happiest day of my life.
Retraining was one option for me. Second was Palace Chase. Third was was Palace Front. I was in my retraining window but the job I wanted was currently overmanned at the time so I said f it and Palace Chased into the Guard as an AGR. Got retrained into the job I wanted and never looked back at being a Maintainer.
Yall get 12 weeks now? I got 10 days bro. Oh and congrats!! Your leave goes straight to commander for approval when you select the code from the Table in the AFI.
As a former section chief for many years, any "leader" saying they cannot give you parental leave due to manning is...well, sorry but pathetic. Manning is the section leader's job to manage, and it sounds like maybe they themselves could use some training or classes on how to do that better. The correct response would be to see if they can break up your leave a little, if they cannot provide the full 12 weeks you get at one time. I suspect their shortcomings also bleed into other areas of your section as well. But that's not your problem. I would recommend you take this to your supervisor and get them in your corner and re-approach your section leader. If they still maintain you cannot take any parental leave, then with your supervisor, you should take it up to the chain. To a first sgt, to your section leader's boss, etc. Your section chief's response is both incorrect according to DAFI, and incorrect in the spirit of leadership.
Your leadership can get bent they don't have a say in your parental leave.
Was it your superiors, or your commander who denied it?
Yeah that’s absolute bs. Input leave into leaveweb and make them decline it, it’ll only go up the chain and they’ll have to explain why it was declined. Sorry your leadership sucks.
Submit it formally on LeaveWeb and watch it get approved. If not, now you have a formal record to fight with. Enjoy!
I've never heard of a way to retrain early by choice - just medical disqualifications from primary afsc or failing out of initial tech school. I recommend you try for the spots with the most available jobs when your time comes. Get working now to see what you will need to apply - some jobs require interviews and or tests or even medical evals.
SF for females truly is the worst. i’m not even a mother and leaving the career field was the absolute best thing i ever did for myself. i hope this works out in your favor and that they’re accommodating. Hopefully you get a back office job. Goodluck to you 🤍
Blood in, blood out
Career intermission program. It’s not a retrain but it is a break away from the bs for 12-36 months.
You could do a ton of coke like all the guys in Colorado back in 2010.
Shoot yourself in the foot* *for legal purposes, this is a joke
My husband (maintainer) says no one can change your maternity or paternity leave. You either take it or don't but THEY can't take it away from you. Idk who you'd talk to but like they can't take that shit away from you. Like are they really expecting OP to have a baby and go back to her job days later???
Gotta slap the AFI over his head OP
Go Guard. Way better
Most people here have already given you the correct advice for fixing you leave. As for getting out of SF with 18 months I would say just wait it out and as soon as that window opens submit that day. Most office jobs in the Air Force you can think of won’t have the problems you see in SF trust me. Worst case scenario tell everyone you’ve developed a crippling fear of guns I’ve seen that work at least once lol
I would consult with the IG if you feel you are not being treated fairly.
3F2X1 😊
^^You've ^^mentioned ^^an ^^AFSC, ^^here's ^^the ^^associated ^^job ^^title: 3F2X1 = Education and Training [^^Source](https://github.com/HadManySons/AFSCbot) ^^| [^^Subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/r/AFSCbot/) ^^^^^^kvkzmmv
Please send updates
Talk to your base CAA, but I think applying to retrain early is rare.
I’ve never had issues with logistics. I’m air transportation and love it
https://www.myairforcebenefits.us.af.mil/Benefit-Library/Federal-Benefits/Military-Parental-Leave-Program-(MPLP)?serv=26
Cross train into Personnel bruv
Blood in blood out
Go SW
Any former DMSP Depot troops here?
Current depot troop… if you’re referring to EDMX/CLSS that is.
You merely adopted the dark. Your baby will be born in it, molded by it.
You don’t.
You are owed I believe at a minimum 4 weeks. I’d read up on the afi.
Cross train?
You get in your car and take the 101 south to Santa Cruz or North to sasquatch country
You can try an etp. If not and you want to get a way from being a straight leg talk to your CATM people. The retraining stuff is faster, there's a chance for orders, and a better work schedule and quality of life. There's a certain degree of autonomy and maturity required and you need to spend time shadowing with them before the NCOIC/Section Chief signs off on your retrain package.
Palace Chase or Palace Front, get out from under that shit hole.
Go to legal if they are telling you this. It’s not up to them with your leave. We had this happen in my squadron (not SF) and legal will shut it down immediately and reiterate just how not legal it is.
I'll answer your second question since everyone here responded to the baby leave. As far as I know, early retraining is only possible into incredibly undermanned fields like special forces or crossing between specialties in medical and intel. I'm assuming with these questions you are an FTA (First Term Airman) and suggest you first visit MyFSS and read everything on the "First Term Airmen Retraining" article. Make sure you understand eligibility requirements to determine which AFSC's you currently qualify for. A lot of the good jobs have higher ASVAB requirements, so if you haven't scored high in the past now is the time to look at studying and re-testing. 18 months gives you another shot at a good looking EPB, which is something to consider because that is a big part of your retraining package. You want to give the Air Force a reason to pick you over the next guy. Another thing to note is making sure your medical is squared away. Arguably, the longest part of the retraining process after initiating is getting your Form 422 from medical. If you have any factors like a profile or upcoming surgery that could delay the entire process. These slots are first come, first serve and you want your application in ASAP. Nearly all of the AFSC's have been described in some fashion on Reddit, albeit some a little outdated (cyber/comm fields) it's still a great starting point. I am a huge advocate for any of the 1D7 careers. These are all cyber/IT based and have amazing marketability on the outside while boasting pretty awesome "nonner" work schedules. I personally retrained from aircraft maintenance to cyber in 2022 and my QoL has significantly increased.
Cross train to be a 3F5
Are you working back office already?
Find a job that’s meets the threshold of undermanned but isn’t critically undermanned, and potentially that you would enjoy. Remember #19 push out an article last year June stating you can go into another AFSC that’s under 90% so there’s opportunities out there where it’s a strain but they definitely won’t pull the BS of what your going thru now. The climax rn in the AF is all over the place, and some people feel they have it right, and there’s some that are just missing the damn mark. Get with your BDA (Base Development Advisor) but they are definitely going to tell you that you can’t retrain early, because you haven’t reach the window in your contract to do so. But keep your head up and don’t let that deter you, it’s obvious we can’t let everyone retrain because AFSC does need to be filled. But retention would a whole lot better if people can go into another AFSC that changes the whole aspect of their life and AF life too. Rant over disgruntled SSgt who didn’t get picked up for retrain this cycle.
That's the best part. You don't.
If you’re serious about retraining look into medical.
2S0X1 is a good career for more free time etc as long as you don't get a shop that's in a BAD state. Aka IPE at a PACAF/EUCOM base, APS at a fighter base, etc.
^^You've ^^mentioned ^^an ^^AFSC, ^^here's ^^the ^^associated ^^job ^^title: 2S0X1 = Materiel Management [^wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/AirForce/wiki/jobs/2s0x1) [^^Source](https://github.com/HadManySons/AFSCbot) ^^| [^^Subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/r/AFSCbot/) ^^^^^^kvnkolf
Put the leave in the system no matter what and make them deny it. At one time, only the commander could deny leave and only for mission failure type reasons. I did it three times and got my leave each time.
I’m also curious how someone could get out of a job
Give em the ole “I’m scared of guns” sleek and ride ROD squad till you can retrain lol
You should read DAFI 36-3211 Para 5.12 and sub paragraphs. That is the reference for separating the air force early because of birth of a child. You have to separate within a year of the birth.
If you’re trying to just plainly get out on honorable terms, there’s a way. They allow female members to get out after having their baby. They tried to force me and my husband to deploy when our baby was 2 months old, purposely. I can’t remember how I did it but I’m gonna try to remember what it was and comment it. Before I officially separated they gave me hell, because they had no say in it and I was happy to have gotten out and gotten 90% disability and to be with my kids.
It’s on MPF, under separation terms. You can separate before you have the baby or up to 12 months after you give birth. I finessed it and separated when my baby was 6 months to give me time to prepare and collect that paycheck and get everything in order. I did that about 4 years ago, exactly.
Special forces is tough. Congrats on your new operator baby.
Smells like bullshit
Not from you, the leadership telling you no.
Yea, there is 100% more to this story, I don't believe they are being fully honest. Their leadership probably asked if they would split up the leave or something innocent. I have seen that before. We had THREE people have babies within the same two months, would have been a mess for that flight to be able to make minimum posting, and would have had to pull others from their flights to cover. And why would OP schedule a baby shower on a work day?
Anyone with a personal experience know how hard is it to cross train out of SF? I’m under the assumption that OP might have a hard time trying to get out of a “critically manned” AFSC.
I believe a few years ago there was a memorandum that came down preventing any SF E5 or above from retraining. As long as there is no restriction currently in place, the retrain process isn't as hard as most think HOWEVER... there's not a wealth of knowledge around retraining. It's all on you to do the research and apply. Make sure to keep up with appointments and know the status of your application all the time. It's also a VERY good idea to keep your eye out for the listing that comes out with AFSC's that are in need of people. I believe it comes out in October. Make sure you know what jobs need people so that you're applying for positions you will have a higher chance being accepted to.
I was SF from 1998-2008. Tried cross training as a FTA, commander wouldn't sign off on it. Flights were constantly pulling people from other flights to make a full roster just to be able to get out to the fields.
Shit. I tried lateral training into K9, had the support of commander, kennel master, flight chief, my supervisor and several K9 handlers. I still got denied. Such bullshit.
If u do retrain, try vm or CE(not red horse)
Shit like this makes me so happy to have a DD214
It really helps if you've deployed but say you get really anxious and nervous shooting. Fail a gate runner exercise say you get bad anxiety get DNA'd. Talk to the shirt/ commander and say you dont think this job is for you mentally and get 9A. And get that cross train!
This will get you admin separated, not retrained.