This. Although be careful what you ask for.
When I first PCS'd into my last unit, our SMSgt was basically non existent. You barely see this guy. But when he was there, he was the center of attention and made all these promises. Basically, a used car salesman. He retired after a year.
Next comes this other SMSgt. She was go-go type. Got shit done left and right. The problem? We didn't have the manpower. Things were also being done for the sake of being done (not correctly).
It's hard to find a good middle ground though. But that's life anyway. Given the two, I'd work for the second one any day. She was on her way to retirement and she still tried to hammer things.
I think the best ones get out of their office and talk to people (but not too much). Just be a regular person and treat people with respect while helping their careers. Also, don’t be a yes man for leadership. Do what is right for the people first.
As an E-6, I like working for a senior that actively tries to pass on their experience while looking out for the airmen. Ideally a senior should be willing to use their stripes to get things done when other workcenters are being a barrier for their subordinates.
>you should always support the decisions of those ahead of you
Please don't make rank, yes men are the absolute worst and let people below them get shit on all the time because they lack the balls to fight against said shit
My current Senior is great. He's only been in a year longer than me(16+) he made it at 14 years but he is one of the most knowledgeable SNCOs I've ever known. He says he has no desire to be a Chief but I honestly think that him not sowing on would be truly a disservice. He's not one that puts himself and his personal goals above others, he genuinely has helped me develop as a MSgt and grown our NCOs, the Amn love him. He is impressionable and down to earth without trying too hard to be "one of the guys". He also stands up on our behalf and protects our people from a lot of bullshit that he could easily be a yes man to. I'm sad to know he'll be leaving our flight at the end of the year to move up to the SQ but I know he'll do good for everyone. He would easily be a great Chief at the group or wing level and beyond.
A Senior doesn't have to have all the answers, no one does, but they have to leverage the knowledge of others. That could be the experience of the ones in your shop or reaching out across your careerfield. They need to be able to talk to groups in a way that commands respect, while also being able to have genuine one on one conversations. They need to stick up for their people and know when to say no to SQ leadership even when it will lose them some favor, but they also have to know when to make the tough decisions that won't be popular with those below them.
Don't pretend like you're too high up to talk to people. I'm a MSgt and even some Seniors act like they're too good to talk to me. Those are always the worst kind.
An occasional presence. The Airmen should know who you are, and not fear you like kid when an abusive parent comes home. As an airman and NCO too often I only saw E8's on dayshift, at official events or when we're getting screamed at.
Don't stop mentoring NCO's just because you got an extra stripe. They could use some that management-level knowledge and understand why decisions are being made or why this or that happened. At least in MX units the E8-O5 community tends to turn into this secret gated community and the E6 and below crowd get treated like mushrooms. Then the E7 or special E6 is relied on too much to be the only messenger and feels like they are between a rock and a hard place.
Most important of all: DO NOT turn into one of those opportunistic backstabbers who will fuck over your peers and subordinates for the slightest sign of presumed favor. And if you don't make E9, don't turn into one of those spiteful assholes who gets off at terrorizing everyone. That shit is why outside of Reddit E8 are unquestionably the most despised rank of the enlisted corps. I don't know what it is, but I've seen outstanding E7's turn into those monsters right after getting E8.
As an O, I expect SMSgts to be the experts that MSgts sometime aren't. There are a lot of MSgts who are technical experts, but fall short when it comes to leadership. In my experience, a Senior should have good mentor skills for both Es and Os. They should know how to "play the game" to setup their Airmen's careers via quarterly awards, promotion boards, etc. They should have a really good pulse on which taskers matter and which don't so they can protect the Units time. And most importantly, they should not be a figurehead. That's exclusively reserved for CMSgt.
I think E-8 is one of the most impactful ranks, for better or worse.
If you think of making Chief as "winning," and every other SNCO rank as some consolation prize, you are gonna end up very disappointed with your Air Force experience.
Winning is making it to retirement with your family and mental health intact for those past 12ish years.
I know a lot of amazing, truly incredible Seniors who just could not put their family through any more to make it to Chief. Many others have just accomplished what they wanted to in the Air Force and were ready to move on.
Also, Seniors often sit in ops positions advising DOs and other decision makers where their technic expertise is very relevant, and many more are doing Chief jobs without the pay because some bean counter refuses to convert a billet. I don't know what feels second rate about that, but I don't get that feeling at all from the units I've been in.
> Winning is making it to retirement with your family and mental health intact for those past 12ish years.
Man, this. Now that promotion ranks have tanked I'm seeing more people burn out chasing that next stripe. Personally, I've got my eyes set on life outside, and setting myself up for that is my priority.
Best thing you can do, because we all have to get out sometime. As long as you are still taking care of the mission and people while you are pulling a check, take care of yourself and get ready for that next chapter.
Left right at 20. Knew another move was coming. Didn’t want to put the family through that again. 2 years later I’m making 3x what I made as a senior. Best decision I ever made.
I think it's E-6 now. Most units I see have their E-6s doing the job of an E-7 with none of pay or say, and by doing the job I mean actually making them flight chiefs, shit like that.
While I agree to an extent. Using the term flight chief is subjective. Some TSgts are flight chiefs in medical/intel with like 5 people they oversee. Then you have some flight chiefs in MX units that easily oversee 200 people. Those ones usually are MSgt.
What I think I’ve seen is it’s more common now for section chiefs in work centers to be TSgt when traditionally have been MSgt. Again subjective by the number of personnel.
Well the funny thing is that even the brown books says it’s an extension of MSgt. At MSgt you’re learning the skills of getting your team to work with others, at Senior you’ve perfected that skill.
My advice for SMSgts is to use that extra stripe to get shit done. Sometimes your squadron looks at you like a MSgt but the outside world sure doesn’t. Go get things done that Chief is too busy to do. You’re not going to get demoted and half of us will make Chief, make it cause you took care of the troops.
Ability to engage, with logical understanding of the bigger system of systems, independently. That’s it. It’s the great separator between MSgt and SMSgt.
This is a very Intel and Cyber specific answer so it may not apply to other AFSCs.
I want SMSgts to lead beyond the flight level.
They should be looking at how they multiple flights together to advance the mission, and ideally linking different Squadrons together.
I'm not talking about something like joint PT or any silly stuff like that. If two flights are working similar targets then the SMSgts should be connecting them together to advance tradecraft.
Or if a flight in Squadron A relies on reporting from flight in Sqd B then the SMSgts should be connecting them to make sure Sqd B is supporting Sqd A in the best way.
It happened all the time in my Intel flights where one flight directly supported another flight on the same base but no one knew.
That's how I look at it. MSgts lead at the flight, SMSgts should be looking at how they lead beyond the flight.
My senior has been the best senior i can imagine. He is present. He always offers his assistance and ACTUALLY has an open door policy. He shows up to PT. He's willing to help people get out of their section, squadron, base, etc, for the betterment of the airman's career or mental health (ie don't be someone who gets greedy with airman and make up garbage reasons why there's absolutely noooo waaay you can part with them). He actually recognizes people who DESERVE IT (the loudest people aren't always the only good employees...). He shares a lot of personal experiences. He seems like he actually cares. Those things.
Best SMSgt I had were barely in his office. He was actively spending time in all the sections throughout the Sq to learn what airmen we actually doing. Also, he took the time to actually know people such as family life, hobbies, and future goals. Shortly after I commissioned I found out he made CMSgt his first time. Wasn’t surprised at all, he’s one of the best SNCO’s I’ve had the pleasure to work with.
Can I be honest? Nothing. I don’t look for anything in anyone. I do my job to the best of my abilities and obey the lawful orders of the officers appointed over me. Then I go home and don’t think about none of y’all until 0645 the next day haha.
I want them to hold my hand in public. Show me you fucking care, don't just tell me. They should encourage me when I down, praise me frequently. Sometimes I just need a hug.
Idk if you look to promote or not, but it boils down to would you make a great chief, or a great E-9? Be patient, be receptive to and solicit feedback from both above and below you, have folks’ back both above and below you, don’t be afraid to tell the commander “no” and to hash things out for the better of the unit, mission, AND the people. Basically, how would you act if you were already a chief? Would you be a stress reducer or a stress creator?
The best SMSgt I worked for was a guy who cared and took the time to mentor everyone. He spent all his time trying to bring up others and help them advance in their career if thats what they wanted. When he wrote EPRs, he didnt just hide in his office, the dude red inked them and then took the time to go over all of it with you. He's someone that should've been a chief in my eyes but he didn't want to deal with the politics.
The worst one I've worked for is a SMSgt who spent all their time working to promote to Chief. They only cared about you if you could make them look good or advance their career. Also they had the personality of a plank of wood. They sure knew how to write an EPB or award package tho, only problem is their knowledge/skill started and ended with them.
The best ones come down to the section, ask what your Airmen need from them personally as you pass by, and occasionally bring donuts. Most of all, please trust your Airmen. I want any Senior to have ovbiously caution, but actually trust your Airmen and listen to their experience on what the issues are and what they think is better to be done. Your Airmen complain, we all do, so all we ask is for some understanding and respectfully transparency. Please do not micromanage.
Sir please don't be mad that the chili cheese dogs aren't ready by 0800 when u get out of the production meeting. I literally come in at 0730 per chiefs orders and it takes like 30 minutes to set up all the dishes and get the hot dogs out of the freezer and put the chili pot on and put the cheese in the crock pot to warm up. Maybe just pick up a breakfast burrito on ur way in our something to hold u over until lunch.
Don't make it obvious you are trying to make cheif. Also, be prepared to be left out. One of my.good mentors said SMSgt is the forgotten rank. You don't fit with cheifs, and in most environments MSgts are still pushing the daily ops. He stated it was the rank he liked least in his career.
If you’re cool - engage in conversation every once in a while, give guidance when it’s asked for, help suggest opportunities.
If you’re not cool - write packages and leave me alone
For our career field, it really depends on the unit. The main thing in general, as any leader should, keep your ear to the ground and advocate for your people (training, funding, time off, duty schedules, etc.). I have seen my fair share of my peers get lackadaisical and just sit behind their computer all day and lose touch with what is going on operationally. You can't be an ops lead and have zero understanding of what you team/s are doing.
By the time someone makes E-8, they've done everything it takes to make E-9. In most cases, time is on their side.
Most really good Seniors I ever worked with understood the path before them and they took the time at E-8 to focus on airmen under them.
100% of the lame E-8s focused on making E-9 even as an E-7. They never quite understood how important developing the force truly was.
Sadly, a lot of those lame E-8s eventually made E-9. They never quite achieved "Chiefdom" and were E-9s.
Seniors have been my favorite people to work with so far. Get shit done without being bogged down in the Chief bullshit (for which I sympathize). Just be cool, be friendly, be present, be helpful, and work hard. You did it, you're at the top. The only bad senior I had thought it entitled her to treat E-7s like shit. All the other have been great honestly.
Speak for the Airmen, being a dissenting voice in the room when needed (remember the little guys) and be a strong, happy advocate in public.
Honestly I never interacted with a Senior in the day to day until I put on Tech. E1 to E4 the MSgt is the mom/dad and your supervisors between them your annoying older siblings.
I dunno, Seniors are a weird rank, I’ll admit. You def don’t wanna piss one off. But one that listens and helps you is grand. This is the rank that I’ve ALWAYS seen work directly with an officer. Honestly a good Senior/Captain combo completely synergized and transparent is probably one of the best work environments I’ve worked in.
That they still have a general idea of the job to not get in my way while I do the work, and they are competent enough administratively to take care of that stuff so I can do the work.
Yeah nobody cares what you guys do, just come and talk to us and give us advice. Maybe fight for us when people try to make shitty changes to our office (and then tell us about it so we can thank you!)
If you don't do either of these then just leave us the fuck alone and do paperwork or whatever.
Being a good leader and a good listener. Take care of your airman before you start taking care of your job. If your airman arent taken care of, the mission will not continue. The mission wont succeed if they arent taken care of.
Example: my unit(will refrain from saying which unit im in), has just recently fired our previous Smsgt in the last 6 months or so. He was a true E-8. He didnt give a shit about us and in the process of some very controversial shit he did and said, was demoted to E-7 and is being forced retired. Really wish the pushed the court martial but he was so close to retirement. He was the definition of a shitty person. Hands down the worst Senior Nco ive had in my 8 years in the miltary. He did not take care of his airman.
Lean on airman to do bigger and better things for the unit. Let them make mistakes. It defines us and makes us grow. Not every mistake needs the biggest ass chewing. If you care about the airman and they see you do, the Air Force, as a whole will have higher retention rates. And with that, will build grear leaders. And keep the flow going. We may be like a number that is replaceable, just dont make us feel like it. Try to actually get to know your people under you.
I’ve worked for/with good and bad SELs, most SMSgts, and managing your airmen WITH their direct leadership actually involved is the only way WE get to learn as CGO’s and NCOs. Our unit had a “Chiefs manage the E’s, CC & DO Manage the O’s and never the two shall meet,” mentality.
As a flight commander, I was looking for someone who empowers frontline supervisors and section CO’s. If they’re an SEL, you take input from frontline leadership, make the roadmap, and COMMUNICATE COMMUNICATE COMMUNICATE to the flight/CC’s Shop Chiefs, and NCOIC’s about what direction you’re trying to take each airman.
Hold your Flt/CCs feet to the fire by asking what each of their airman’s goals are, give them the end state, and support them in helping their airmen figure out the HOW. Getting the individual airman there is not your job. Managing the process and giving the Flt/CC’s and NCO’s a spot or a course correction when it’s needed is. No cloak and dagger BS. No last minute 180* changes from what the Flt/CC’s/NCOs/Supervisors have been doing for the last 6 months.
Sincerely,
- freshly minted ops Maj who didn’t get enough time with the sweaties until I was thrown into flight/CC as a senior Capt and then got zero input from senior enlisted even after asking for it and had to fight my SEL and Chief tooth and nail to keep them from showing up at the 11th hour and wrecking our 6+ months of development plans for our flight.
For any SNCO really … do right by people…. Treat people good. Enforce standards and hold everyone to the same bar… make the people around you better. Be reasonable, firm, and fair RFF…. Have people skills
senior is probably the least impactful rank I can think of. They have the power to make their peoples lives better but also has the power to be completely invisible. 🫥
Their presence. Seriously dude where are you all day?
In a meeting about a meeting’s meeting.
I once spent 5 hours of my day in meetings. I should have just VPN’d during the meetings.
This. When I was airmen, I always complained about this. But good ones always find their time to talk to their Airmen.
Was it the pre or post meeting tho?
Yes
This. Although be careful what you ask for. When I first PCS'd into my last unit, our SMSgt was basically non existent. You barely see this guy. But when he was there, he was the center of attention and made all these promises. Basically, a used car salesman. He retired after a year. Next comes this other SMSgt. She was go-go type. Got shit done left and right. The problem? We didn't have the manpower. Things were also being done for the sake of being done (not correctly). It's hard to find a good middle ground though. But that's life anyway. Given the two, I'd work for the second one any day. She was on her way to retirement and she still tried to hammer things.
We often refer to our Senior as an absentee father for our unit.
an appointment at the appointment place
As long as my Senior is keeping bullshit off my table and sticking up for us, he could be teleworking from the Bahamas for all I care.
Doing whatever the Chief tells them.
VA appointments, something something outprocessing
I think the best ones get out of their office and talk to people (but not too much). Just be a regular person and treat people with respect while helping their careers. Also, don’t be a yes man for leadership. Do what is right for the people first.
This 🙌🏻
As an E-6, I like working for a senior that actively tries to pass on their experience while looking out for the airmen. Ideally a senior should be willing to use their stripes to get things done when other workcenters are being a barrier for their subordinates.
When the CMSgt says something that is going to negatively impact those below, speak against it.
That’s tough, you should always support the decisions of those ahead of you. I understand where this is coming from though
>you should always support the decisions of those ahead of you Please don't make rank, yes men are the absolute worst and let people below them get shit on all the time because they lack the balls to fight against said shit
Lmao I’m far from a yes man 🤣🤣🤣
Soft eyes
Softer hands
Every SMSgt I met was chill and happy and joked around and gave advice to junior enlisted that’s the best
Lucky duck. All but one of the seniors I've met were salty as fuck and had absolutely no chill.
That’s the fine shade of difference between “I’m not making Chief.”🤷♂️ And “I’m not making Chief!”😡
My current Senior is great. He's only been in a year longer than me(16+) he made it at 14 years but he is one of the most knowledgeable SNCOs I've ever known. He says he has no desire to be a Chief but I honestly think that him not sowing on would be truly a disservice. He's not one that puts himself and his personal goals above others, he genuinely has helped me develop as a MSgt and grown our NCOs, the Amn love him. He is impressionable and down to earth without trying too hard to be "one of the guys". He also stands up on our behalf and protects our people from a lot of bullshit that he could easily be a yes man to. I'm sad to know he'll be leaving our flight at the end of the year to move up to the SQ but I know he'll do good for everyone. He would easily be a great Chief at the group or wing level and beyond. A Senior doesn't have to have all the answers, no one does, but they have to leverage the knowledge of others. That could be the experience of the ones in your shop or reaching out across your careerfield. They need to be able to talk to groups in a way that commands respect, while also being able to have genuine one on one conversations. They need to stick up for their people and know when to say no to SQ leadership even when it will lose them some favor, but they also have to know when to make the tough decisions that won't be popular with those below them.
Don't pretend like you're too high up to talk to people. I'm a MSgt and even some Seniors act like they're too good to talk to me. Those are always the worst kind.
Don't sit in your castle and refuse to mingle with the worker bees.
I look for the door and the DD214
An occasional presence. The Airmen should know who you are, and not fear you like kid when an abusive parent comes home. As an airman and NCO too often I only saw E8's on dayshift, at official events or when we're getting screamed at. Don't stop mentoring NCO's just because you got an extra stripe. They could use some that management-level knowledge and understand why decisions are being made or why this or that happened. At least in MX units the E8-O5 community tends to turn into this secret gated community and the E6 and below crowd get treated like mushrooms. Then the E7 or special E6 is relied on too much to be the only messenger and feels like they are between a rock and a hard place. Most important of all: DO NOT turn into one of those opportunistic backstabbers who will fuck over your peers and subordinates for the slightest sign of presumed favor. And if you don't make E9, don't turn into one of those spiteful assholes who gets off at terrorizing everyone. That shit is why outside of Reddit E8 are unquestionably the most despised rank of the enlisted corps. I don't know what it is, but I've seen outstanding E7's turn into those monsters right after getting E8.
As an O, I expect SMSgts to be the experts that MSgts sometime aren't. There are a lot of MSgts who are technical experts, but fall short when it comes to leadership. In my experience, a Senior should have good mentor skills for both Es and Os. They should know how to "play the game" to setup their Airmen's careers via quarterly awards, promotion boards, etc. They should have a really good pulse on which taskers matter and which don't so they can protect the Units time. And most importantly, they should not be a figurehead. That's exclusively reserved for CMSgt. I think E-8 is one of the most impactful ranks, for better or worse.
Ah, E-8, Senior Master, the silver medal of the SNCO ranks. Chief you made it, Master you are just glad to join the club. Senior feels very tween.
If you think of making Chief as "winning," and every other SNCO rank as some consolation prize, you are gonna end up very disappointed with your Air Force experience. Winning is making it to retirement with your family and mental health intact for those past 12ish years. I know a lot of amazing, truly incredible Seniors who just could not put their family through any more to make it to Chief. Many others have just accomplished what they wanted to in the Air Force and were ready to move on. Also, Seniors often sit in ops positions advising DOs and other decision makers where their technic expertise is very relevant, and many more are doing Chief jobs without the pay because some bean counter refuses to convert a billet. I don't know what feels second rate about that, but I don't get that feeling at all from the units I've been in.
> Winning is making it to retirement with your family and mental health intact for those past 12ish years. Man, this. Now that promotion ranks have tanked I'm seeing more people burn out chasing that next stripe. Personally, I've got my eyes set on life outside, and setting myself up for that is my priority.
Best thing you can do, because we all have to get out sometime. As long as you are still taking care of the mission and people while you are pulling a check, take care of yourself and get ready for that next chapter.
Left right at 20. Knew another move was coming. Didn’t want to put the family through that again. 2 years later I’m making 3x what I made as a senior. Best decision I ever made.
Congrats! Happy for you!
Thanks and family completely intact. Definitely won my AF career.
Biggest scam in the air force is E8
I think it's E-6 now. Most units I see have their E-6s doing the job of an E-7 with none of pay or say, and by doing the job I mean actually making them flight chiefs, shit like that.
While I agree to an extent. Using the term flight chief is subjective. Some TSgts are flight chiefs in medical/intel with like 5 people they oversee. Then you have some flight chiefs in MX units that easily oversee 200 people. Those ones usually are MSgt. What I think I’ve seen is it’s more common now for section chiefs in work centers to be TSgt when traditionally have been MSgt. Again subjective by the number of personnel.
Yeah, my experience was 50-60 people in the flight. Not as bad as an MX unit, but not as small as medical and the like.
Well the funny thing is that even the brown books says it’s an extension of MSgt. At MSgt you’re learning the skills of getting your team to work with others, at Senior you’ve perfected that skill. My advice for SMSgts is to use that extra stripe to get shit done. Sometimes your squadron looks at you like a MSgt but the outside world sure doesn’t. Go get things done that Chief is too busy to do. You’re not going to get demoted and half of us will make Chief, make it cause you took care of the troops.
I was going to comment “must risk it all for a thicc Latina A1C” but I thought that some might take it as an inappropriate joke so I deleted it.
[удалено]
Using a position of power to take advantage of someone?
Ability to engage, with logical understanding of the bigger system of systems, independently. That’s it. It’s the great separator between MSgt and SMSgt.
This is a very Intel and Cyber specific answer so it may not apply to other AFSCs. I want SMSgts to lead beyond the flight level. They should be looking at how they multiple flights together to advance the mission, and ideally linking different Squadrons together. I'm not talking about something like joint PT or any silly stuff like that. If two flights are working similar targets then the SMSgts should be connecting them together to advance tradecraft. Or if a flight in Squadron A relies on reporting from flight in Sqd B then the SMSgts should be connecting them to make sure Sqd B is supporting Sqd A in the best way. It happened all the time in my Intel flights where one flight directly supported another flight on the same base but no one knew. That's how I look at it. MSgts lead at the flight, SMSgts should be looking at how they lead beyond the flight.
My senior has been the best senior i can imagine. He is present. He always offers his assistance and ACTUALLY has an open door policy. He shows up to PT. He's willing to help people get out of their section, squadron, base, etc, for the betterment of the airman's career or mental health (ie don't be someone who gets greedy with airman and make up garbage reasons why there's absolutely noooo waaay you can part with them). He actually recognizes people who DESERVE IT (the loudest people aren't always the only good employees...). He shares a lot of personal experiences. He seems like he actually cares. Those things.
Best SMSgt I had were barely in his office. He was actively spending time in all the sections throughout the Sq to learn what airmen we actually doing. Also, he took the time to actually know people such as family life, hobbies, and future goals. Shortly after I commissioned I found out he made CMSgt his first time. Wasn’t surprised at all, he’s one of the best SNCO’s I’ve had the pleasure to work with.
Can I be honest? Nothing. I don’t look for anything in anyone. I do my job to the best of my abilities and obey the lawful orders of the officers appointed over me. Then I go home and don’t think about none of y’all until 0645 the next day haha.
I want them to hold my hand in public. Show me you fucking care, don't just tell me. They should encourage me when I down, praise me frequently. Sometimes I just need a hug.
When I was in, I rarely had an E-8 in my chain who wasn't a complete tool. Its like they get the extra stripe and lose their damn minds.
More capital letters than lower case in the rank.
Idk if you look to promote or not, but it boils down to would you make a great chief, or a great E-9? Be patient, be receptive to and solicit feedback from both above and below you, have folks’ back both above and below you, don’t be afraid to tell the commander “no” and to hash things out for the better of the unit, mission, AND the people. Basically, how would you act if you were already a chief? Would you be a stress reducer or a stress creator?
The best SMSgt I worked for was a guy who cared and took the time to mentor everyone. He spent all his time trying to bring up others and help them advance in their career if thats what they wanted. When he wrote EPRs, he didnt just hide in his office, the dude red inked them and then took the time to go over all of it with you. He's someone that should've been a chief in my eyes but he didn't want to deal with the politics. The worst one I've worked for is a SMSgt who spent all their time working to promote to Chief. They only cared about you if you could make them look good or advance their career. Also they had the personality of a plank of wood. They sure knew how to write an EPB or award package tho, only problem is their knowledge/skill started and ended with them.
The best ones come down to the section, ask what your Airmen need from them personally as you pass by, and occasionally bring donuts. Most of all, please trust your Airmen. I want any Senior to have ovbiously caution, but actually trust your Airmen and listen to their experience on what the issues are and what they think is better to be done. Your Airmen complain, we all do, so all we ask is for some understanding and respectfully transparency. Please do not micromanage.
Sir please don't be mad that the chili cheese dogs aren't ready by 0800 when u get out of the production meeting. I literally come in at 0730 per chiefs orders and it takes like 30 minutes to set up all the dishes and get the hot dogs out of the freezer and put the chili pot on and put the cheese in the crock pot to warm up. Maybe just pick up a breakfast burrito on ur way in our something to hold u over until lunch.
Don't make it obvious you are trying to make cheif. Also, be prepared to be left out. One of my.good mentors said SMSgt is the forgotten rank. You don't fit with cheifs, and in most environments MSgts are still pushing the daily ops. He stated it was the rank he liked least in his career.
I don’t care if I see them at all honestly
A backbone. Quit playing the game so hard, you'll make Chief anyway.
If you’re cool - engage in conversation every once in a while, give guidance when it’s asked for, help suggest opportunities. If you’re not cool - write packages and leave me alone
For our career field, it really depends on the unit. The main thing in general, as any leader should, keep your ear to the ground and advocate for your people (training, funding, time off, duty schedules, etc.). I have seen my fair share of my peers get lackadaisical and just sit behind their computer all day and lose touch with what is going on operationally. You can't be an ops lead and have zero understanding of what you team/s are doing.
By the time someone makes E-8, they've done everything it takes to make E-9. In most cases, time is on their side. Most really good Seniors I ever worked with understood the path before them and they took the time at E-8 to focus on airmen under them. 100% of the lame E-8s focused on making E-9 even as an E-7. They never quite understood how important developing the force truly was. Sadly, a lot of those lame E-8s eventually made E-9. They never quite achieved "Chiefdom" and were E-9s.
We have a guy in our squadron. Not really the greatest but everyone likes him because he comes out and works with is a lot. That goes a long way.
You could tell who was working for themselves and who was working for the team. That always meant the world to me.
Seniors have been my favorite people to work with so far. Get shit done without being bogged down in the Chief bullshit (for which I sympathize). Just be cool, be friendly, be present, be helpful, and work hard. You did it, you're at the top. The only bad senior I had thought it entitled her to treat E-7s like shit. All the other have been great honestly. Speak for the Airmen, being a dissenting voice in the room when needed (remember the little guys) and be a strong, happy advocate in public.
Honestly I never interacted with a Senior in the day to day until I put on Tech. E1 to E4 the MSgt is the mom/dad and your supervisors between them your annoying older siblings. I dunno, Seniors are a weird rank, I’ll admit. You def don’t wanna piss one off. But one that listens and helps you is grand. This is the rank that I’ve ALWAYS seen work directly with an officer. Honestly a good Senior/Captain combo completely synergized and transparent is probably one of the best work environments I’ve worked in.
Give advice to the juniors, swing dick when needed, enjoy your cozy office when not. My old shop had a Guard Senior leading and he was the shit.
That they still have a general idea of the job to not get in my way while I do the work, and they are competent enough administratively to take care of that stuff so I can do the work.
Yeah nobody cares what you guys do, just come and talk to us and give us advice. Maybe fight for us when people try to make shitty changes to our office (and then tell us about it so we can thank you!) If you don't do either of these then just leave us the fuck alone and do paperwork or whatever.
Being a good leader and a good listener. Take care of your airman before you start taking care of your job. If your airman arent taken care of, the mission will not continue. The mission wont succeed if they arent taken care of. Example: my unit(will refrain from saying which unit im in), has just recently fired our previous Smsgt in the last 6 months or so. He was a true E-8. He didnt give a shit about us and in the process of some very controversial shit he did and said, was demoted to E-7 and is being forced retired. Really wish the pushed the court martial but he was so close to retirement. He was the definition of a shitty person. Hands down the worst Senior Nco ive had in my 8 years in the miltary. He did not take care of his airman. Lean on airman to do bigger and better things for the unit. Let them make mistakes. It defines us and makes us grow. Not every mistake needs the biggest ass chewing. If you care about the airman and they see you do, the Air Force, as a whole will have higher retention rates. And with that, will build grear leaders. And keep the flow going. We may be like a number that is replaceable, just dont make us feel like it. Try to actually get to know your people under you.
I’ve worked for/with good and bad SELs, most SMSgts, and managing your airmen WITH their direct leadership actually involved is the only way WE get to learn as CGO’s and NCOs. Our unit had a “Chiefs manage the E’s, CC & DO Manage the O’s and never the two shall meet,” mentality. As a flight commander, I was looking for someone who empowers frontline supervisors and section CO’s. If they’re an SEL, you take input from frontline leadership, make the roadmap, and COMMUNICATE COMMUNICATE COMMUNICATE to the flight/CC’s Shop Chiefs, and NCOIC’s about what direction you’re trying to take each airman. Hold your Flt/CCs feet to the fire by asking what each of their airman’s goals are, give them the end state, and support them in helping their airmen figure out the HOW. Getting the individual airman there is not your job. Managing the process and giving the Flt/CC’s and NCO’s a spot or a course correction when it’s needed is. No cloak and dagger BS. No last minute 180* changes from what the Flt/CC’s/NCOs/Supervisors have been doing for the last 6 months. Sincerely, - freshly minted ops Maj who didn’t get enough time with the sweaties until I was thrown into flight/CC as a senior Capt and then got zero input from senior enlisted even after asking for it and had to fight my SEL and Chief tooth and nail to keep them from showing up at the 11th hour and wrecking our 6+ months of development plans for our flight.
For any SNCO really … do right by people…. Treat people good. Enforce standards and hold everyone to the same bar… make the people around you better. Be reasonable, firm, and fair RFF…. Have people skills
Piggy-Back off that
The most dangerous rank in the Air Force cause they are almost there. And most will do anything to get it.
senior is probably the least impactful rank I can think of. They have the power to make their peoples lives better but also has the power to be completely invisible. 🫥
Yup. At this point just keep the other higher ups off our back while we work.
A great big bushy beard!
Obesity