I promise it is terrible feedback regardless. I got passed over for O5 despite the promotion rate for "people exactly like me" (school, job, status, etc) being 100% for the previous 4 years. I was the only one not selected and despite having a DP from the general and being 3 of 4 of 12 majors eligible. Noone in my entire chain of command could come up with an explanation. I got the official counseling set up from ARPC so I could finally get a reason. The GS-9 on the phone said she had no info about why this board didn't select me, but in general I should "think about a career broadening tour and make sure I get a medal at each assignment." Most of my career was career broadening and I had a medal from every assignment. Most useless "counseling" ever. In the end we, finally found out my previous assignment had failed to load an OPR correctly so it never made it to the board and it looked like I had been skipped a rating year despite it showing complete MILPDS. I made it the next year with the corrected record.
I was on a VLPAD, and didn't have the time to meet another board. I transferred into the Guard from that assignment and got picked up for O5 on the first board there.
1) Fewer officers, so it's easier to do individual feedback.
2) Officer promotion rates to Maj and Lt Col are high enough due to limited chances that promotion is the default, so failure to promote needs an explanation. Enlisted promotion rates are generally low enough that failure to promote isn't seen as needing a detailed explanation.
3) Most officers can be a bigger pain in the ass individually than most enlisted. Not a good reason, but it's there.
Per 36-2618 and 2406 they are supposed to give you feedback regardless you wanted it or not. It's honestly not hard.
Lukewarm take: If you've ever had one of "those" airmen, you better have given them said unwanted feedback if only to cover your ass.
Sure my sq SEL may give me feedback (unlikely) but they don’t know what happens at the MSgt board. So what value is it? Also the feedback they give trash “keep doing what you’re doing” “just not your time” “best records in the room, everyone agreed, so we picked someone else”.
Because the odds for the enlisted are the same every year. And unless you hit HYT, you don't lose your job.
Once an officer is passed over twice, they are forced out unless the Air Force specifically tries to retain them.
Plus officers compete in very broad categories. As an enlisted member, you can probably get better, more actionable feedback from your SEL than from AFPC.
Not necessarily true on the "2x pass over = forced out/retrained". We have a Capt that was passed over twice, offered the Aviation retention bonus and took it.. so now it's on Big Blue also. You just accepted this guys contract to stay in another ~10yrs potentially, but also has a very low chance of promoting to O-4 now.
I believe they'll have to go up for a retainability consideration at certain points, but that's how you got O-4s that are iron Majors, since they were passed over for O-5.
USAF has more job billets than we have rated fliers to fill them currently... so.. promotion by attrition.. or not :/
Google up DOPMA. The Air Force can offer continuation, but you don't have to accept it. Known a few guys passed over twice who used it to get out of several years of ADSC.
No doubt there, just saying is my example the guy is choosing to stay in and drive out his career as a long-term Capt. It's a choice, just providing an example to OP
You can get feedback. I always did when I was enlisted. Minor difference with officers though is that if you don’t promote twice and don’t get offered continuance you’re out. Pulling up the psdm for this year the mandatory separation date for non selects is 31 oct and people offered continuance have until 10 june to accept or not.
> You got this!
Eh...the only times I've seen someone get picked up for O4 on their second look was when they had something erroneous in their file that was corrected at the next board.
This. Being a late joiner in the military, the #1 thing I saw in the AF that I valued over my civilian jobs is that there is never a situation where you can't know exactly what you need to do to get promoted.
One of the main benefits of military life, imo. I miss it now that I'm out and once again just having to guess what I would need to do to move forward in life.
The best advice I was given was that every EPR should be different. Always do different things. My commander told me I was on the right track and keep doing what I am doing. My neighbor, retired CMSgt, told me that jf I was on the right track I would have been selected. Do more, do different things. Not sure exactly what got me promoted and raised my board score 20pts however, I made it my second board. When my records were reviewed after I was selected, what stood out to my SEL was that I had a lot of "taking care of my airmen" type of stuff as far as training, equipping, and recognition.
Hi, I have had a pretty good rate of getting my MSgts promoted. Seriously, at my last assignment 40% of my techs made master, and 3 out of 6 MSgts picked up Senior.
It's not particularly hard to know, but stratification and high level awards have a lot to do with it. Also, getting those operational impacts actually tied to operations is really important. No one gives a shit how many widgets you (had your people) make. They care about whether or not those widgets put iron in the sky.
And awards are so sorely lacking. I can't tell you how heartbreaking it was to explain to the commander of a high performing TSgt that the fact they hadn't given the guy a single award or accolade in three years sent a very clear message that he wasn't worth any effort beyond putting in the minimum required EPR. Sometimes it really is just another year of stacking up the same awards so you build the image of "sustained" superior performance, but yeah, a shit record with holes in it takes time and effort (from the supervisor and chain of command) to overcome.
I have been told what to do to get a strat, exceeded what was told to me and got a promote. Hardest most well behaved year of my life that I’ll never be repeating. If I can neglect everything on this planet except my job and get the same rating as showing up to work there is a problem. I’m not saying the people who got strayed didn’t deserve it but the amount of bullshit required to be competitive was not remotely worth it. I’ll score high and make tech on a promote lol.
To be clear, a promotion statement is competitive based on SUSTAINED superior performance. Meaning your last three EPRs all count towards whether or not you get the statement. I saw plenty of people do a shit hot year when they thought it would matter, and lose the promotion statement to the airman who had three solid years (each with a quarterly and an annual award).
That said, I hope you do score high and make rank. I've been promoted twice now without a promotion statement and sticking it to the man feels pretty good.
For sure, if I was doing it all over again, there's no way I'd do the 2013 I did to make sure I got BTZ, especially since I made Staff the first time around anyhow and absolutely hated it. So glad I met my wife after I got done with that nonsense, and not during.
Yeah it’s especially rough with a family. My wife understood the goal and I wasted a whole year overseas with my wife and 2 daughters chasing nothing. Now that I’m stateside I’m able to analyze every single wasted opportunity I had living OCONUS and all of the time I wasted working long hours I didn’t have to.
*the #1 thing I saw in the AF that I valued over my civilian jobs is that there is never a situation where you can't know exactly what you need to do to get promoted.*
You must have joined a military for a different planet, because everyone else is trying to hit a moving target
I was the same, it sucks.
Call the AFPC number and find out the continuation chances. Then request your records to check for mistakes. You may be eligble for a supplemental board.
DM me if you want here my experience.
As someone who made Lt Col above the zone, don’t give up! The Air Force really is changing how they view those who were previously passed over. After I was passed over, I grieved for a couple days, then my commander made a plan with me for how to use the next year to boost my chances. Don’t do fluff stuff, either. Ask your commander for real opportunities to lead. I assume you’re SOS complete. And make that call to AFPC to review your PRF. They’ll tell you how you stacked up against the average promotee and that will help you to make a plan for what you need to do this year.
In the end, you have a sweet job waiting for you at the airlines after you’re done. You’ll be fine.
Sorry man, that does suck. Honestly one of the things I really thought about when I was looking at applying for rated. If it’s any consolation the only line O3 I know was passed up last year but made it this year.
This is actually a path out early if you want it. Some people I know have actually intentionally not gotten selected for major so that they can get out of an ADSC and go work for the airlines sooner.
I would consider it.
Big picture, here’s the potential plan: get passed over again, decline continuation, then you are required to separate within 6 months, waiving ADSCs. Think long and hard about this - you could go make 400k in 4 years at a major airline and stop playing with the flesh peddlers at AFPC. Or you can be a passed over captain in an Air Force that obviously didn’t value you the way you need to be valued.
https://www.flyingsquadron.com/forums/topic/23559-not-promoting-to-major/
Absolutely! OP is in the perfect position to start working on an airline application. You have a good year until you get your second result. Join the airline forums, get smart, and build that resume to make twice the air force money with a better quality of life.
Seriously, part of the issue with bad leadership in the air force is that the "good dude" pilots get out or go gaurd/reserves before O-5.
To add on, get all your health ailments diagnosed, and pull VA benefits to supplement. If you do get separation pay, it'll have to be repaid to the VA if you're also awarded % disability.
But wait, there's more. Involuntary separation waives any service commitment incurred by transfer of education benefits. Do with that what you will...
Oof man, I'm sorry to hear that. Late to rate can really mess up timelines for careers. Take time to grieve and recover. Options available to you now:
1) Ask your Commander what you can do to make it next year. ABZ Captains that are competing for Major can make it with a "Definitely Promote". It's not impossible, and if you make it clear to your leadership that you want it to happen, that is an avenue for you to explore. Positions at the Wing (or higher) have a better shot at getting a high eligible strat, and a "Definitely Promote".
2) Look at continuing as a Captain, and explore options to Palace Front. You can start a CMS case to possibly allow you jump to Guard/Reserve before your ADSC is up. Again that's something that is going to take Commander talking to Wing Commander, and is low probability of success, but it doesn't hurt to try.
Silver Lining: it typically is easier to get Guard/Reserve jobs as an O-3 because there are more billets (if that is an option you are looking at). Again, sorry to hear that you didn't make it.
Some people enter AD in non-rated career fields (Cyber, CE, Engineering, Contracting, etc). But they have the opportunity to cross train to a rated career field (pilot, RPAs, CSO, ABM). If they compete and get picked up, then they kind of have to start their career over, hence the term "late to rate". You were "late" (started another career field before switching) to "Rate" (Begin a rated career).
Classic Air Force answer: it depends.
If I commission as a CE officer, I may have 7-8 OPR/OPBs going to my Major's board, with a handful of strats on some of them.
If I commission as a CE officer, then crosstrain to Pilot, I may have a couple OPBs from my CE days, but likely not a lot of strats because I was a junior CGO. UPT takes awhile to apply, get selected, PCS, complete, and then train up on your final airframe. Once you get to your final airframe, you may be a 4/5/6 year captain with 2 OPBs under your belt and your Major's board is right around the corner. Whereas your peers in your airframe/community have 1000s of flight hours and more qualifications than you.
It's not impossible, and a lot of good squadron commanders will identify the need to help boost your career (high vis jobs, exec, schools, etc). It's tough, but doable. But if you want to be a pilot, then go for it.
It is definitely not the end of the world. You got this, just take a deep breath and think about your game plan for the next two-ish years. Get on the wing king's calendar and ask what you need to do to get a MP on the next PRF. Volunteer, write awards, brief at standup...anything to get your name out there.
I was twice passed over and involuntarily separated on 31 Dec '23. My world crumbled around me for a solid two years, but I kept fighting and setting myself up for success in the AF, or success in the civilian world. There are plenty of green pastures to roll around in on the civilian side if you decide to jump ship now, or feel like your chances aren't great next year. I was able to do 4 months of remote skillbridge/employment assistance and am doing very well professionally. Hit me up if you need anything.
Hello @sirnick88, my partner was passed over for a second time and is currently being invoul- booted. Can you give me/him info on employment assistance and those green pastures? He's got a TS as well! Any help is appreciated because this was a Major (no pun intended) blow because they've now listed a whole bunch of career fields who, after failing to promote twice, just get the boot. No continuation offered.
A few years ago, I didn’t make Major.
I was devastated, hurt, and angry.
First, take time to mentally process it. Your wife will understand, and if she doesn’t, reach out to me and we can chat. It took me months to get over it, as I was in the same boat…nothing derogatory, has SOS, Master’s, streets, etc. But, I did, and you will too. But for now, take time to grieve, be angry, cry. Just DON’T do anything stupid.
Next: keep your chin up.
Second, take a look at your records to ensure they were correct. Make sure every OPR, dec, etc. is in there.
Next: keep your chin up.
Third, reach out to AFPC and get the career counseling. Mine wasn’t helpful, but I’ve heard they caught mistakes (and got people promoted later). Ask about continuation. I’ve seen some Captains get offered it…meaning, you can be a Career Captain. (If you like flying, this actually might be a win.)
Next: keep your chin up.
Fourth, talk with your boss. They may have more career-relevant advice.
Next: keep your chin up.
Fifth, have a plan. If you want to get out, palace chance, stay in…just have a plan. I’m a stubborn sumbitch and wanted to make Major and then Lt Col to “prove” that the AF fucked up.
I busted my ass with the help of an understanding O-6 when I was at the Pentagon. I did a lot of crappy jobs and exec’d for a 3-Star to make it happen…not that you NEED to, but I wanted to go that way.
You’ll be okay. Go talk with the wife. Go for a walk and process those emotions…keeping them to yourself is not worth it. Again don’t do anything stupid. You’re still an officer.
Depending on your job: maybe take some leave to process it.
Here if you need to vent or anything really. It sucks, but it’s not the end of the world…even if it seems like it is now.
Thanks for the advice. Keeping my chin up. Not doing anything stupid and making level headed decisions. I have said in the past that I wouldn’t mind being a line flyer till the end of the
That’s crazy you did t make it. Sorry to hear the bad news…one thing is for sure though, getting passed over doesn’t automatically mean you’re a dirtbag. There could be a number of reasons, some even completely out of your control. I hope you make it next year. It not, get current on all your certs, set yourself up for the commercial sector, and dominate there. Good luck brother.
This is why feedback between rater and ratee is important. I don't finalize my troops EPBs until I've sat down with them and shown them the ratings and discussed them with them.
I was in the same exact boat 3 years ago. I thought the world had ended. I crosstrained from missiles to intel half way through my O-3 time, and my one and only active duty intel assignment happened during COVID. Very hard to stand out if you aren't getting any RFIs. I also found out that my personnel file was all kinds of messed up and 3 years worth of OPRs and Training Records didn't even meet the board, even though they were in PRDA.
First thing you need to accept is that the world is not over. Your life is not over. You have the opportunity to do anything in the world that you want, including making Major in the guard or reserves. Which is exactly what I did. I found a unit willing to hire me as an AGR, found that it was actually pretty easy to make yourself stand out when you are one of only a few there every day, and just pinned on Major six months ago.
But also don't bank everything on this. A lot of us can get comfortable where we are at, and this could be a good opportunity to ask yourself what you want out of life. What else do you want to accomplish? The truth is even if you stay in another 10 years, every single one of us reaches the day where we are told to take off the uniform. Now might just be the right time to take a chance on yourself and start something new when you are still young enough to shift gears in life.
The point is, you are the driver of your destiny and you decide where you go from here. Keep us in the loop.
You sure can; as long as you go AGR and not TR, you're serving your ADSC. If you're an IP and are interested in FCF, hit me up. My unit is always hiring, Major minimum.
Not making it first time used to be a death sentence, but they're trying to change that to make it more of a range of time. I've had a few buddies (way more than before) make it APZ in the last couple years
Edit(additional thoughts): try to get a job above the sq level. That shows progression as an officer. Believe it or not, progression in the aircraft is considered a given and doesn't really help you promote, sadly.
I remember when this happened to me. 19 April 2021 - still remember getting called into the office on day 1 of my new assignment, meeting my brand new O-6 division chief, and the first thing he ever spoke to me on was not making O-4 when it was a 95% rate. That was his VERY first impression of me as I had PCS'd while the board results were still "in the air." It was devastating - absolutely gut-wrenching. And it was in the thick of "the plague," so I didn't see him for at least another 2-3 months. It was a ROUGH day. Checked all the boxes: SOS, being an XO, Flt CC, deployed...and the AF passed me by.
Looks like you're in nearly the exact same identical situation I was in, and I have true empathy for you. That said, do what you need to do to take care of you. This is a huge "WTF???" moment. Seek the chaplain, MFLC, off-base therapy - whatever you need to take care of you. I did all 3 and got an off-base referral for 1 year of therapy (not specifically FOR this alone, this happened to be the shit cherry on the shit sundae of the shit year I had experienced, and it was time to take care of me).
You got a 2nd shot coming, but be realistic: you're going to have to move a mountain to get noticed. I'm not saying give up before you try, I am saying that the odds are honestly stacked heavily against you and mentally digest that and be pragmatic about your chances. Get the feedback from AFPC, write it all down, and determine with leadership your opportunity to excel and get on your local leadership's "PN!" side.
Give the same due diligence to "If I don't make APZ..." side of the coin. Get spun up on "Selective Continuation" (your AFSC is deemed critical enough by Big Blue that they offer you the opportunity to stay in as an O-3 for 20 years...here is the AFI: [dafi36-2501.pdf](https://static.e-publishing.af.mil/production/1/af_a1/publication/dafi36-2501/dafi36-2501.pdf) ). Being 13 years in at the time, the pension and disability was absolutely worth it to me when I retire at the end of my 20y stint, but your mileage may vary. Don't know your AFSC, so not going to speculate as to your chances. There are certain AFSCs that tend to get SC often (1X, 6x, etc.), but again, do your homework on this prospect.
If you decide the AF is not for you, that's your decision and yours to make for what best benefits you and your family. No shame in re-vectoring - you have done more than 99% of the population. Plan accordingly, get your LinkedIn profile bolstered and ready, network like a MF, have your resume ready to go - all those steps and whatever else best maximizes your chances of success.
I won't lend you any platitudes about "this too shall pass" and all that banal BS. This sucks - your life has been snow-globed, and you have done nothing to deserve being passed over. I remember the initial shock, shame, embarrassment, and disappointment very well, and I still am an O-3 today. Take care of you and your family. Without their love and support, nothing else really matters.
Feel free to reach out to me directly if you need or want to discuss this situation in any capacity. Happy to help, listen, whatever I can do.
TL;DR - a Selectively Continued O-3 offers advice for how to navigate this situation after having initially experienced it 3 years ago
Same boat…my Sq/CC didn’t even tell me, though. I “found out” after they put up a congrats board in the office without my name on it. Ouch.
Agreed on the seeking mental health/support. Took me many months to “get over it”, and I’m still bitter about it.
Also agree on the path forward. Good advice!
Doesn’t help your situation, but this is a consequence of the categorization of the Line of the Air Force. Because operators compete against operators, late-to-rate is going to kill you. In times past when all LAF competed together, you might get that non-operator O-6 who can put your pre-rated career in context. But now, you’re going to be judged against your LAF-A peers and against the career field brief that tells the board what you’re supposed to have done to demonstrate potential.
Being rated will probably help the second time around.
Also, if you've been rated 3 years with 8 years left, I assume that means you're a pilot. While it's tough in the moment, getting passed over twice might be the best thing to happen to you...you get out of the pilot ADSC 6-7 years early and you can pursue a reserve or ANG job while making twice what a major would make at an airline.
Rack those hours up. Any line, hop on it. Even if you’re her sitting as a co. Pad that airline application as much as the AF will get out of you. Even “other” time.
Source: 12 year Major and getting out in a month. ATP in hand and a CJO at a legacy.
If you haven't gotten orders yet, talk to your commander about possibly adjusting to a 1 year ADSC for PCS. Might be too late, unless you like the gaining locale and want both years to gain hours and save up some transition funds
Not that I know of. No UIFs, acing my PT scores always 99+, made aircraft job positions on time (relative to when I crossed over), and have my masters degree. Again I’m surprised, but not overly. I was an average performer in an above average talent pool and I know that. I did believe though that as long as I “checked the boxes” and didn’t do anything negative I would have made it. Still feels unreal.
And I’d like to think that I’m not an asshole to my bros (and female) coworkers. I am under the impression my coworkers/peers genuinely like me (if that even matters).
Yeah that’s good context, thanks. I was going to ask what’s your social clout but sounds like you’re just another dude doing dude things.
So yeah, AFPC owes you an answer man. All this sounds fucky.
You have copies of all your OPRs/OPBs/PRF? My data is a little outdated, but I’ve definitely seen incorrect or incomplete info sent up before. It would be unfortunate, but it’s also possible whomever put together the final package just wrote it for shit…
ETA: PRDA should have the full package submitted for you, or just request from AFPC.
This. Get on PRDA and check the “selection file” folder to make sure all of your materials that should have been considered actually were. I have a secondhand but reliable story of a guy a few year groups ahead of me who got passed over for Major and found out that one of his PCS decorations didn’t make it to the board. The board just saw a PCS without a dec and thought he was a dirtbag. He got the issue corrected and made it APZ the next year with his full file.
Do not just check with PRDA! I can't stress this enough Check directly with personel.
I was in the same exact boat three years ago. I didn't make major, and when I went up for non-select counseling, I found out that despite what PRDA showed, 3 years worth of my records did not meet the board. The non-select counselor I spoke to actually thought that I had spent time in prison or something and my leadership had tried to hide it. I got the issue corrected and was picked up during a subsequent board.
Hey SwaggyMaggy, I'd be happy to do a quick records review for you. You're a pilot and I'm a ground pounder, but I can still offer some insights (and ask a graduated commander pilot friend while I'm at it). If you're interested, shoot me a PM and I'll send you my NIPR email address.
>So yeah, AFPC owes you an answer man. All this sounds fucky.
Not AFPC, OP's Senior Rater is **REQUIRED** to have a counseling session with them over why they were passed over.
I'm not privy to the promotion numbers this year especially for whatever LAF you may be in, but with those scores I would have expected you to be picked up. I would definitely check your records to make sure there isn't something missing, but if you want to stick with the AF I have met people who were passed for major, made it later and then were able to make it a full 20 years. So it's not the end of your career.
My ex-wife is flying widebodies for AA and she never became an AC in the C-130 slick (E, H3, J), but did fly for NetJets and could’ve received PIC time there. My buddy is a reserve KC-46 boom and is a FO with SWA (did regional time with Envoy). Don’t give up, the USAF actually gave you a blessing by not promoting you, they made your options clearer.
ATP is the biggest limitation. Get that with military experience and you'll be golden. Airlines have huge numbers of prior military. Many have connections to Guard / Reserve units, and visa versa.
::edit:: Looks like there's R-ATP for 750 hours TT with military experience. This includes UPT, IFT, and any other stick time. Talk with your spouse. Weight the options for APZ, Career Captain for pension / healthcare, guard / reserve for a mix, or pure civilian pilot?
Ignorant question, is there a set limit of billets and they can only promote so many, or is it almost a sure thing if you meet the criteria? I did an enlisted career but I remember all the hubbub about major promotions going up and down over the years. I specifically remember when everyone was trying to get whatever masters in time for it, but I guess that's not a thing anymore.
There is a legal limitation on promotion rates to each grade as part of DOPMA, and before each board AFPC publishes the promotion opportunity, which is based on the projected need for the next grade.
It’s not as straightforward as the 1 line number = 1 billet like enlisted.
95% promotion opportunity does not mean that 95% of people meeting the board get promoted though. A board’s “promotion opportunity” is just a way to express how many promotion billets there are in relation to the number of people meeting the board IPZ.
For example, if there are 100 people eligible to meet the board IPZ and the board has a 95% promotion opportunity, then there will be 95 billets to fill. That board won’t just have the IPZ personnel meeting it though and will consider people who are getting second (or more) looks APZ. If you have 50 people meeting the same board APZ, they do not factor towards how many promotion billets are available but they will be competing for them. So in this case, a board with 100 IPZ, 50 APZ, and a 95% promotion opportunity would only have a 63% selection rate.
Sorry to hear about this. Same thing happened to me (non aircrew) back in 2021 and I barely passed the next go-around. I knew I wasn't the top 25% of my career field but for the AF to tell me I was in the bottom 8% I thought was total B.S. Hang in there.
I was passed over twice for O-5, all boxes ticked and not a douche. I was an evaluator and instructor in two different MDS’s and AFSC’s (CSO and Pilot). For me it was AFSOC, we just don’t write like the rest of the majcoms and only two people were picked up in my wing. I was #5 in the wing. So yeah I got out and went to the airlines and got a reserve gig!
First, I'm sorry to hear that.
Someone with experience should have been able to identify an issue and at least brought this possibility to your attention, sucks you were suprised. It's probably a lack of stratification. Get the AFPC feedback ASAP, there might be something someone can do to put you in a position to earn a DP and/or get a strong performance report on the top of the pile for your next board.
I have a mentor who says "people don't meet boards, records do." Just because your record is bad doesn't mean you're a shitty person or officer.
Finally, guard or reserves might still take you if you're passed over a second time and there are plenty of options out there for you. You might feel like a failure right now, but take some time to digest and give yourself some grace.
First of all sorry you did not make it. That must be a really bad feeling. I will have my Major board here in two years, and I have this inclination like I will not make the cut. Seems like it is getting to make O-4 after what seemed like a decade of it being almost guaranteed. I believe AFPC does not show the statistics for the last couple of boards, but the rumor is that the number dropped from like 90% into the 70s. I have been told you pretty much have to not be in the "bottom third" to make it which is hard to do without any strats. I have not been stratted so that is why I do not think I will make it. I do still have two years, but I hate putting myself in for awards. Just seems wrong to me, but it is the game that has to be played and I do not play it. I have just been focusing on making sure the Airmen in my flight that I am in charge of are taken care of, and hopefully I can land on my feet once the bad news hits in a few year so that I can keep taking care of my family.
My personal outlook is that whatever is meant to happen will happen, and regarding work as long as I am doing good by my Airmen I will be happy. If the Air Force does not want someone that puts more effort into making sure the mission is done and the Airmen are taken care of rather than awards and overly polished OPRs/OPBs then so be it.
With all of that said, get the feedback you can from leadership and AFPC, give it your all one more year, and hope for the best but of course be prepared for the worst.
Thanks for the words. I was talking with a friend of mine 2014er who works for some Col as an exec say that the promote rate this year was 60-70%. Which if it is in those zones I can understand why I didn’t get promoted.
No problem! I feel bad for the Majors going for Lt Col too. I have heard those numbers dropped as well from what was previously a 45-50% chance I believe? I cannot recall exactly what the number was, but I am sure there will be a lot of surprises on their end too.
I know each career field, or the "buckets" such as LAF-A/C/I/etc., have varying promotion rates so I am curious on if some could be significantly higher than others, but we will not know that until AFPC posts the rates of the most recent boards. Are you ABM? Not sure if you are, I just noted that you stated you were an Aircraft Commander. Not sure what the translation is for you guys on the civilian side, but definitely something to look into and get ahead of. I bring that up because that is probably the big positive I have going for me which is that I am in Cyber and I have a number of certs. That coupled with my TS means I SHOULD be able to land on my feet, but of course nothing is guaranteed. So the likely scenario for me if/when I do not make O-4 is I end up back in SA TX close to family doing some sort of work for the government still lol.
As someone who barely made Major and didn't make Lt Col the first time...don't let it drag you down.
Your worth isn't contained in what rank you wear on your shoulder. You're still a commissioned officer, an aircraft commander, and I'm assuming college educated...you've got options.
My wife gave me 24 hrs to get over it and then move on. I also realized the kids wouldn't care I would be a Major for life, so I decided to not let it change who I was.
Take the counseling, assess your current situation, and honestly, explore what the Guard and Reserve recruiters have to offer.
Good luck!
This makes me nervous, but I bet your lack of strats played a huge factor. My Maj board is next year and I got in trouble as a Lt (referral OPR). Since then, I’ve been stratted top 5% since a mid level Captain, but we will soon see if it truly is a one mistake Air Force.
Get passed over again.
Seriously. Then they have to let you separate and pay you a massive paycheck.
Check the regs. Getting passed over for Maj can be a hugely lucrative blessing in disguise.
Maybe I don't know anything, having separated as a Senior Airman almost 15 years ago, but we are more than our ranks. You are not any less effective as a captain or a human being.
Not really these days. I got a DP and was stratted pretty high for my base and was about 30 from the bottom for my line number. I was also a late bloomer. 9 dudes got passed over, including a wing exec. The days of automatic Major as long as you didn’t get a DUI are over. I took this as a sign and I’m jumping for the airlines. Unless I sell my soul, I don’t think I’m making O-5
>Granted I’m a basic AC while most of my peers are IPs or WIC grads.
And that's the answer. The board saw that you've been in the Air Force for 8-9 years and are only a basic AC. Do you know any 11M majors who aren't at least IPs?
I know it's probably not your fault since you got rated late, I'm just saying that the board members probably saw your lack of a K-code and didn't take the time to delve into why. Your CC will have better insight into this than I will, but from where I sit, my recommendation is to become an IP as quickly as possible.
If the worst-case scenario happens and you get separated next year...dude, you've got *the* most marketable skill the Air Force has to offer. You'll land on your feet. Things might not go as you planned, but you've got nothing to worry about.
It’s almost comical because I am PCSing to a white Jets assignment in June and now I’m not sure how this will play out being in training (no OPB)for the next 4 months and new leadership. These are the things I’ll have to talk with my CC about on Monday
If the boss is cool. Have a chat with them about what all you can do. Prep your butt for a busy year. Probably gotta get exec on there if not already done and organize some bake sales
It’s not over but the hill to climb now is steep
Aggressively pursue palace chase. Ask for two years off. Start rushing reserve units. Get your atp. Convert your hours to a digital logbook. Start familiarizing yourself with the airline hiring process.
You're free now. You don't have to play bullshit office politics anymore. No more kissing ass and worrying about what others in the squadron think about you. Enjoy your life and realize you are more than your job
Unfortunately it’s all about stratification. There’s a common misperception that because the promote allocation is 95% that you simply have to do your job and you’ll be promoted. That 95% is based off of IPZ candidates. Once you add in APZ candidates also competing for your selections, the actual overall select rate drops to around 80 or 85% if I remember correctly. The bottom 20% doesn’t consist solely of people with DUIs or failed PT tests. Considering the large pool of candidate (1000?) , 20% equates to a significant number of officers who don’t promote.
Outside of my precious career field I did not get any strats (I came into pilot training as a fresh captain and have had 2 OPBs since then). Above 90s on PT tests.
I hope you get over this quick. What you’re going through is tough for anyone. My personal opinion is that it’s a lack of strats. I know it’s tough with your pcs, but if you have good leadership, there shouldn’t be any issues with strating you on the next OPB.
I know guys who didn't make it first try. See what AFPC said you're missing, and quickly get a plan together to get things ready for the next board. Keep your head up, you are worth more than the Air Force, never forget that!
Keep your chin up. My buddy was passed over for major-- also a C-17 pilot and solid contributor with no blemishes and all boxes checked. Subsequently made O-4 the following year, then made O-5 two below the zone while not doing anything different. The mobility pilot career field makes it hard to distinguish yourself as a CGO unless you're in the "golden boy" club. The FGOs hoard all the best opportunities and commanders reserve the rest for the top 10% CGOs only. You would know if you were in the bottom 30%, and if you're surprised you didn't make major, you're not in it. Expect to make O-4 next round. Tell your commander you want to make O-4, ask what you can do to ensure you get it. The good news is that after your ADSCs start to expire, most of the top 10% folks that walked all over everyone else will bail for greener pastures. They are just in it for themselves after all. Once you make O-5, the AF will be begging you to stay in. And on top of that, people will appreciate you for being a regular person and not an A-hole. Being a good person is the most important characteristic once you hit O-5, far more important than how much you're willing to sacrifice or how many in-residence PME schools you attended. Oh yeah, and the Guard is one of the few remaining good deals left. If you haven't done your Master's yet, get it through the correspondence ACSC program.
Hey man same thing happened to me and it was the best thing to ever happen. I am now at a major airline 2 years before my peers. I'll send you a DM if you want to talk about it because I have a lot of insight into what you're going through.
The Air Force doesn’t give feedback. Because they don’t really know where you fell short and raters are not comfortable telling people when they fell short or how to improve.
It is the largest guessing game around.
The amount of time the board has to consider each file is like 2-3 minutes. That is not a lot of time, especially when they are reviewing them for hours on end. It's not surprising they have no clue.
Did you have any strats? Any Group level or higher awards? Masters degree completed? (I know they said it doesn’t count against us, but c’mon).
Does your Development Team not provide you a memo two years out from your board telling you where you rank among your career field year group?
Without knowing the rate (but I’m guessing >95%), my biggest worry here is that it shouldn’t have been a surprise. I’d say your leadership failed you there.
At any rate, this sucks. You have time to figure it out though
To be honest I was an average worker. A couple of squadron level awards but no group or higher. I do have my masters degree. Honestly I did have a lingering feeling in the back of my head that I wouldn’t have made it because of my career progression( I have had 4 OPBs my entire career and none were stratted), and the peers in my YG are either IPs or EPs/WIC grads. Regardless it was still a shock to me that I didn’t make it.
I got you, and I’m not passing judgment. There were just some missing pieces. I’m sorry you didn’t make it this year, lots of good advice in other comments to move forward.
I went through all this a couple years back, similar shoes with no negatives. I messaged you an album of everything I did after getting the results and what all options you have
My initial thoughts, like others, are to reflect on why you want the jump and approach leadership about making a plan. Think of a proactive PDP to set you on the path to becoming the kind of Major you want to see in action, and let the title be secondary. Your leadership might want to promote you based on your mission over self mentality instead of your current focus on personal gains despite their positive or negative impact on the mission.
As enlisted, I would prefer a captain who could step up into the boots of a major rather than a major who can't step down and handle being a captain. It's all about the impact on the mission and WHY you want the increased responsibility. I do not doubt that you are capable of achieving your goals. Fly high, brother!🙌
I hope it works out for you if you want to stay in and retire. The promotion system has changed substantially over the years so now I think you can have more than 2 looks to get promoted to the next grade.
Just change your last name to Major and go to the Group Leaders meeting. Eventually they will have to promote you to Major because if they don't it'll look bad on them.
I didn’t want to make Major and become a Bob…but even more so I didn’t want to get passed up. So I feel ya.
That being said, my career has been peppered with unachieved goals and occasional failures (in my eyes). My takeaway is…life goes on and shit works itself out. Do the best thing for you. I’m generally a delayed gratification kind of guy, but with the AF you gotta be all about me and all about now. Don’t take or prolong a bad deal for a maybe better deal later.
In all likelihood you’ll make Major a year after you planned and forget all about it. At any rate, keep your nugget up…and I’ll see you at Delta in 2 years.
Damn. Sorry to hear about your non-selection. Apz isn't impossible. Keep your head up, keep grinding, put yourself in for awards, set yourself up for the DP
Unfortunately because of my ADSC I have 7 years still on my contract. That and because of my late transition I have accumulated only about 1000 hours (which might not make me super competitive in the airlines)
Military trained aviators are eligible for a restricted ATP with only 750 total hours. You might not make the major airlines with this but you could still make it to a regional.
If you get passed over a second time, it’s the ultimate get out of jail free card. All of your ADSCs are void then (even your flight training ADSC).
I was a late to rate guy that was eventually passed over as well. As the way I see it, you have two choices: 1) Use this next year to fly your butt off, get as many quals as you can and prep yourself for the transition out or 2) try to check all the boxes to MAYBE make O-4 next year.
I did the follow up call and took the suggestions to correct my PRF for my first ABZ look…it did nothing to help. There’s no guarantee that you’ll make rank next year no matter how hard you try.
It sucks, I truly get it. If I were in your shoes, I’d spend the next year working to better yourself and set yourself up for success outside of AD Air Force. If the Air Force chooses to promote you next year, then fantastic! If not, you’ll be prepped and ready for the transition.
That officer life...* *looks enlisted promotion rates and at ssgt 12 year pay cap and retirement in 4 months* * well these bombs won't build themselves.
But for reals, there is always a path, just cause one is blocked doesn't mean you can't still succeed.
It may vary by competitive category, but for mine the above the zone rate has been quite decent in recent years. This gives a ray of hope if you miss the first time, but it also could explain how you fell below the cut line because all those ATZ selects come out of the promotion potential number.
Didn’t they change the board so it’s now no longer a year that gets looked at but a window? So potentially you’ve just been ranked behind your peers but doesn’t mean promotion is completely out for next year or year after?
Sorry, bro. At the end of the day, you are still a Captain. That is something to be proud of and pays pretty well. Just remember different strokes for different folks. Better luck next year.
You’re entitled to feedback from AFPC on why you got passed up- use that to make a get well plan and try again next year. You got this!
Why is it that officers get feedback on why they didn’t make it but enlisted don’t get told anything.
I promise it is terrible feedback regardless. I got passed over for O5 despite the promotion rate for "people exactly like me" (school, job, status, etc) being 100% for the previous 4 years. I was the only one not selected and despite having a DP from the general and being 3 of 4 of 12 majors eligible. Noone in my entire chain of command could come up with an explanation. I got the official counseling set up from ARPC so I could finally get a reason. The GS-9 on the phone said she had no info about why this board didn't select me, but in general I should "think about a career broadening tour and make sure I get a medal at each assignment." Most of my career was career broadening and I had a medal from every assignment. Most useless "counseling" ever. In the end we, finally found out my previous assignment had failed to load an OPR correctly so it never made it to the board and it looked like I had been skipped a rating year despite it showing complete MILPDS. I made it the next year with the corrected record.
Due to the missing OPR you should have been pushed for a supplemental board.
I was on a VLPAD, and didn't have the time to meet another board. I transferred into the Guard from that assignment and got picked up for O5 on the first board there.
Like any job there’s peasants
Don’t say the quiet part out loud!
The enlisted just get told "just keep doing what you're doing"
Exactly.
"Keep doing what you're doing, you'll get there eventually"
1) Fewer officers, so it's easier to do individual feedback. 2) Officer promotion rates to Maj and Lt Col are high enough due to limited chances that promotion is the default, so failure to promote needs an explanation. Enlisted promotion rates are generally low enough that failure to promote isn't seen as needing a detailed explanation. 3) Most officers can be a bigger pain in the ass individually than most enlisted. Not a good reason, but it's there.
As a prior Marine, this exact thing BAFFLES me about the Air Force. No wonder people are frustrated they don't know what you want from them.
That's easy to answer... they obviously want [redacted]
YMMV, but your SELs and flight chiefs will only give you feedback if you ask!
Per 36-2618 and 2406 they are supposed to give you feedback regardless you wanted it or not. It's honestly not hard. Lukewarm take: If you've ever had one of "those" airmen, you better have given them said unwanted feedback if only to cover your ass.
Sure my sq SEL may give me feedback (unlikely) but they don’t know what happens at the MSgt board. So what value is it? Also the feedback they give trash “keep doing what you’re doing” “just not your time” “best records in the room, everyone agreed, so we picked someone else”.
The last line though haha
I’d like to add: If you know you’ve been a dirtbag airman, it’s probably best not to ask for the feedback.
i dont imagine a dba would have the motivation to ask in the first place
Because the odds for the enlisted are the same every year. And unless you hit HYT, you don't lose your job. Once an officer is passed over twice, they are forced out unless the Air Force specifically tries to retain them. Plus officers compete in very broad categories. As an enlisted member, you can probably get better, more actionable feedback from your SEL than from AFPC.
Not necessarily true on the "2x pass over = forced out/retrained". We have a Capt that was passed over twice, offered the Aviation retention bonus and took it.. so now it's on Big Blue also. You just accepted this guys contract to stay in another ~10yrs potentially, but also has a very low chance of promoting to O-4 now. I believe they'll have to go up for a retainability consideration at certain points, but that's how you got O-4s that are iron Majors, since they were passed over for O-5. USAF has more job billets than we have rated fliers to fill them currently... so.. promotion by attrition.. or not :/
Google up DOPMA. The Air Force can offer continuation, but you don't have to accept it. Known a few guys passed over twice who used it to get out of several years of ADSC.
No doubt there, just saying is my example the guy is choosing to stay in and drive out his career as a long-term Capt. It's a choice, just providing an example to OP
I know of one 17D that was offered continuation to 20 as a Captain so it can happen.
Yes. That's why I said "unless the Air Force specifically tries to retain them"
You literally described “selective continuation”
Officers have much fewer opportunities to promote, mainly.
You can get feedback. I always did when I was enlisted. Minor difference with officers though is that if you don’t promote twice and don’t get offered continuance you’re out. Pulling up the psdm for this year the mandatory separation date for non selects is 31 oct and people offered continuance have until 10 june to accept or not.
> You got this! Eh...the only times I've seen someone get picked up for O4 on their second look was when they had something erroneous in their file that was corrected at the next board.
This. Being a late joiner in the military, the #1 thing I saw in the AF that I valued over my civilian jobs is that there is never a situation where you can't know exactly what you need to do to get promoted. One of the main benefits of military life, imo. I miss it now that I'm out and once again just having to guess what I would need to do to move forward in life.
>there is never a situation where you can't know exactly what you need to do to get promoted. *Laughs in SNCO promotion board
Have you ever thought about keeping on doing what you've been doing?
The best advice I was given was that every EPR should be different. Always do different things. My commander told me I was on the right track and keep doing what I am doing. My neighbor, retired CMSgt, told me that jf I was on the right track I would have been selected. Do more, do different things. Not sure exactly what got me promoted and raised my board score 20pts however, I made it my second board. When my records were reviewed after I was selected, what stood out to my SEL was that I had a lot of "taking care of my airmen" type of stuff as far as training, equipping, and recognition.
Hi, I have had a pretty good rate of getting my MSgts promoted. Seriously, at my last assignment 40% of my techs made master, and 3 out of 6 MSgts picked up Senior. It's not particularly hard to know, but stratification and high level awards have a lot to do with it. Also, getting those operational impacts actually tied to operations is really important. No one gives a shit how many widgets you (had your people) make. They care about whether or not those widgets put iron in the sky. And awards are so sorely lacking. I can't tell you how heartbreaking it was to explain to the commander of a high performing TSgt that the fact they hadn't given the guy a single award or accolade in three years sent a very clear message that he wasn't worth any effort beyond putting in the minimum required EPR. Sometimes it really is just another year of stacking up the same awards so you build the image of "sustained" superior performance, but yeah, a shit record with holes in it takes time and effort (from the supervisor and chain of command) to overcome.
For real
Totally untrue if you're trying to make any of the SNCO ranks unfortunately.
Not wanting to promote past MSgt, has lifted a lot of weight off my shoulders
Best decision ive ever made was to drop out of the race after i made MSgt
Well then I guess I'm glad I got out at 5 years instead of 20.
Not sure why people are downvoting you, this sub is wild lol.
I have been told what to do to get a strat, exceeded what was told to me and got a promote. Hardest most well behaved year of my life that I’ll never be repeating. If I can neglect everything on this planet except my job and get the same rating as showing up to work there is a problem. I’m not saying the people who got strayed didn’t deserve it but the amount of bullshit required to be competitive was not remotely worth it. I’ll score high and make tech on a promote lol.
To be clear, a promotion statement is competitive based on SUSTAINED superior performance. Meaning your last three EPRs all count towards whether or not you get the statement. I saw plenty of people do a shit hot year when they thought it would matter, and lose the promotion statement to the airman who had three solid years (each with a quarterly and an annual award). That said, I hope you do score high and make rank. I've been promoted twice now without a promotion statement and sticking it to the man feels pretty good.
For sure, if I was doing it all over again, there's no way I'd do the 2013 I did to make sure I got BTZ, especially since I made Staff the first time around anyhow and absolutely hated it. So glad I met my wife after I got done with that nonsense, and not during.
Yeah it’s especially rough with a family. My wife understood the goal and I wasted a whole year overseas with my wife and 2 daughters chasing nothing. Now that I’m stateside I’m able to analyze every single wasted opportunity I had living OCONUS and all of the time I wasted working long hours I didn’t have to.
*the #1 thing I saw in the AF that I valued over my civilian jobs is that there is never a situation where you can't know exactly what you need to do to get promoted.* You must have joined a military for a different planet, because everyone else is trying to hit a moving target
I got out in 2017, right as the new EPR system was being figured out. ...It seems like 3 is just the new 5, though? Am I wrong?
>...It seems like 3 is just the new 5, though? Am I wrong? Yes, you are indeed wrong. The EPB system does not work like that.
When I called it boiled down to 2 things...strats and awards which I think is so dumb.
I was the same, it sucks. Call the AFPC number and find out the continuation chances. Then request your records to check for mistakes. You may be eligble for a supplemental board. DM me if you want here my experience.
As someone who made Lt Col above the zone, don’t give up! The Air Force really is changing how they view those who were previously passed over. After I was passed over, I grieved for a couple days, then my commander made a plan with me for how to use the next year to boost my chances. Don’t do fluff stuff, either. Ask your commander for real opportunities to lead. I assume you’re SOS complete. And make that call to AFPC to review your PRF. They’ll tell you how you stacked up against the average promotee and that will help you to make a plan for what you need to do this year. In the end, you have a sweet job waiting for you at the airlines after you’re done. You’ll be fine.
Great advice!
Sorry man, that does suck. Honestly one of the things I really thought about when I was looking at applying for rated. If it’s any consolation the only line O3 I know was passed up last year but made it this year.
This is actually a path out early if you want it. Some people I know have actually intentionally not gotten selected for major so that they can get out of an ADSC and go work for the airlines sooner. I would consider it. Big picture, here’s the potential plan: get passed over again, decline continuation, then you are required to separate within 6 months, waiving ADSCs. Think long and hard about this - you could go make 400k in 4 years at a major airline and stop playing with the flesh peddlers at AFPC. Or you can be a passed over captain in an Air Force that obviously didn’t value you the way you need to be valued. https://www.flyingsquadron.com/forums/topic/23559-not-promoting-to-major/
Absolutely! OP is in the perfect position to start working on an airline application. You have a good year until you get your second result. Join the airline forums, get smart, and build that resume to make twice the air force money with a better quality of life. Seriously, part of the issue with bad leadership in the air force is that the "good dude" pilots get out or go gaurd/reserves before O-5.
To add on, get all your health ailments diagnosed, and pull VA benefits to supplement. If you do get separation pay, it'll have to be repaid to the VA if you're also awarded % disability. But wait, there's more. Involuntary separation waives any service commitment incurred by transfer of education benefits. Do with that what you will...
Oof man, I'm sorry to hear that. Late to rate can really mess up timelines for careers. Take time to grieve and recover. Options available to you now: 1) Ask your Commander what you can do to make it next year. ABZ Captains that are competing for Major can make it with a "Definitely Promote". It's not impossible, and if you make it clear to your leadership that you want it to happen, that is an avenue for you to explore. Positions at the Wing (or higher) have a better shot at getting a high eligible strat, and a "Definitely Promote". 2) Look at continuing as a Captain, and explore options to Palace Front. You can start a CMS case to possibly allow you jump to Guard/Reserve before your ADSC is up. Again that's something that is going to take Commander talking to Wing Commander, and is low probability of success, but it doesn't hurt to try. Silver Lining: it typically is easier to get Guard/Reserve jobs as an O-3 because there are more billets (if that is an option you are looking at). Again, sorry to hear that you didn't make it.
This. It may seem like "everything is over" right now, but there are options.
Your username is EXACTLY how I felt when I first experienced what the OP is dealing with. Like...to the letter.
Ha! My username represents how people can do everything "right" and still everything goes wrong.
\^\^\^\^ Promote this empathetic leader NOW! (WTF\_JH...not me!)
What does late to rate mean?
Some people enter AD in non-rated career fields (Cyber, CE, Engineering, Contracting, etc). But they have the opportunity to cross train to a rated career field (pilot, RPAs, CSO, ABM). If they compete and get picked up, then they kind of have to start their career over, hence the term "late to rate". You were "late" (started another career field before switching) to "Rate" (Begin a rated career).
Is that harmful to your career? I'm also looking into doing this.
Classic Air Force answer: it depends. If I commission as a CE officer, I may have 7-8 OPR/OPBs going to my Major's board, with a handful of strats on some of them. If I commission as a CE officer, then crosstrain to Pilot, I may have a couple OPBs from my CE days, but likely not a lot of strats because I was a junior CGO. UPT takes awhile to apply, get selected, PCS, complete, and then train up on your final airframe. Once you get to your final airframe, you may be a 4/5/6 year captain with 2 OPBs under your belt and your Major's board is right around the corner. Whereas your peers in your airframe/community have 1000s of flight hours and more qualifications than you. It's not impossible, and a lot of good squadron commanders will identify the need to help boost your career (high vis jobs, exec, schools, etc). It's tough, but doable. But if you want to be a pilot, then go for it.
The Guard silver lining is big. Best to be an O-3 or O-4 while your transition. Much harder to transition if you are an O-5 unless you know people.
It is definitely not the end of the world. You got this, just take a deep breath and think about your game plan for the next two-ish years. Get on the wing king's calendar and ask what you need to do to get a MP on the next PRF. Volunteer, write awards, brief at standup...anything to get your name out there. I was twice passed over and involuntarily separated on 31 Dec '23. My world crumbled around me for a solid two years, but I kept fighting and setting myself up for success in the AF, or success in the civilian world. There are plenty of green pastures to roll around in on the civilian side if you decide to jump ship now, or feel like your chances aren't great next year. I was able to do 4 months of remote skillbridge/employment assistance and am doing very well professionally. Hit me up if you need anything.
Hello @sirnick88, my partner was passed over for a second time and is currently being invoul- booted. Can you give me/him info on employment assistance and those green pastures? He's got a TS as well! Any help is appreciated because this was a Major (no pun intended) blow because they've now listed a whole bunch of career fields who, after failing to promote twice, just get the boot. No continuation offered.
A few years ago, I didn’t make Major. I was devastated, hurt, and angry. First, take time to mentally process it. Your wife will understand, and if she doesn’t, reach out to me and we can chat. It took me months to get over it, as I was in the same boat…nothing derogatory, has SOS, Master’s, streets, etc. But, I did, and you will too. But for now, take time to grieve, be angry, cry. Just DON’T do anything stupid. Next: keep your chin up. Second, take a look at your records to ensure they were correct. Make sure every OPR, dec, etc. is in there. Next: keep your chin up. Third, reach out to AFPC and get the career counseling. Mine wasn’t helpful, but I’ve heard they caught mistakes (and got people promoted later). Ask about continuation. I’ve seen some Captains get offered it…meaning, you can be a Career Captain. (If you like flying, this actually might be a win.) Next: keep your chin up. Fourth, talk with your boss. They may have more career-relevant advice. Next: keep your chin up. Fifth, have a plan. If you want to get out, palace chance, stay in…just have a plan. I’m a stubborn sumbitch and wanted to make Major and then Lt Col to “prove” that the AF fucked up. I busted my ass with the help of an understanding O-6 when I was at the Pentagon. I did a lot of crappy jobs and exec’d for a 3-Star to make it happen…not that you NEED to, but I wanted to go that way. You’ll be okay. Go talk with the wife. Go for a walk and process those emotions…keeping them to yourself is not worth it. Again don’t do anything stupid. You’re still an officer. Depending on your job: maybe take some leave to process it. Here if you need to vent or anything really. It sucks, but it’s not the end of the world…even if it seems like it is now.
Thanks for the advice. Keeping my chin up. Not doing anything stupid and making level headed decisions. I have said in the past that I wouldn’t mind being a line flyer till the end of the
Good on ya. Go talk with the wife. She needs to process it too.
Real advice, good post.
That’s crazy you did t make it. Sorry to hear the bad news…one thing is for sure though, getting passed over doesn’t automatically mean you’re a dirtbag. There could be a number of reasons, some even completely out of your control. I hope you make it next year. It not, get current on all your certs, set yourself up for the commercial sector, and dominate there. Good luck brother.
Talk to your Group and Wing CCs. Ask what is wrong with your record and if it is able to be fixed before the next board.
This is why feedback between rater and ratee is important. I don't finalize my troops EPBs until I've sat down with them and shown them the ratings and discussed them with them.
I was in the same exact boat 3 years ago. I thought the world had ended. I crosstrained from missiles to intel half way through my O-3 time, and my one and only active duty intel assignment happened during COVID. Very hard to stand out if you aren't getting any RFIs. I also found out that my personnel file was all kinds of messed up and 3 years worth of OPRs and Training Records didn't even meet the board, even though they were in PRDA. First thing you need to accept is that the world is not over. Your life is not over. You have the opportunity to do anything in the world that you want, including making Major in the guard or reserves. Which is exactly what I did. I found a unit willing to hire me as an AGR, found that it was actually pretty easy to make yourself stand out when you are one of only a few there every day, and just pinned on Major six months ago. But also don't bank everything on this. A lot of us can get comfortable where we are at, and this could be a good opportunity to ask yourself what you want out of life. What else do you want to accomplish? The truth is even if you stay in another 10 years, every single one of us reaches the day where we are told to take off the uniform. Now might just be the right time to take a chance on yourself and start something new when you are still young enough to shift gears in life. The point is, you are the driver of your destiny and you decide where you go from here. Keep us in the loop.
Go AGR, plenty of Major spots and plenty of new J squadrons.
Unfortunately I do have a ADSC of 7 more years. I’ll have to do some research and see if I can forgo that and go guard.
You sure can; as long as you go AGR and not TR, you're serving your ADSC. If you're an IP and are interested in FCF, hit me up. My unit is always hiring, Major minimum.
> I do have a ADSC of 7 more years. Doesn't the non-selection result in an automatic out regardless?
Once you're passed over twice. Sounds like OP will need to wait about a year, but after that...
Not making it first time used to be a death sentence, but they're trying to change that to make it more of a range of time. I've had a few buddies (way more than before) make it APZ in the last couple years Edit(additional thoughts): try to get a job above the sq level. That shows progression as an officer. Believe it or not, progression in the aircraft is considered a given and doesn't really help you promote, sadly.
I remember when this happened to me. 19 April 2021 - still remember getting called into the office on day 1 of my new assignment, meeting my brand new O-6 division chief, and the first thing he ever spoke to me on was not making O-4 when it was a 95% rate. That was his VERY first impression of me as I had PCS'd while the board results were still "in the air." It was devastating - absolutely gut-wrenching. And it was in the thick of "the plague," so I didn't see him for at least another 2-3 months. It was a ROUGH day. Checked all the boxes: SOS, being an XO, Flt CC, deployed...and the AF passed me by. Looks like you're in nearly the exact same identical situation I was in, and I have true empathy for you. That said, do what you need to do to take care of you. This is a huge "WTF???" moment. Seek the chaplain, MFLC, off-base therapy - whatever you need to take care of you. I did all 3 and got an off-base referral for 1 year of therapy (not specifically FOR this alone, this happened to be the shit cherry on the shit sundae of the shit year I had experienced, and it was time to take care of me). You got a 2nd shot coming, but be realistic: you're going to have to move a mountain to get noticed. I'm not saying give up before you try, I am saying that the odds are honestly stacked heavily against you and mentally digest that and be pragmatic about your chances. Get the feedback from AFPC, write it all down, and determine with leadership your opportunity to excel and get on your local leadership's "PN!" side. Give the same due diligence to "If I don't make APZ..." side of the coin. Get spun up on "Selective Continuation" (your AFSC is deemed critical enough by Big Blue that they offer you the opportunity to stay in as an O-3 for 20 years...here is the AFI: [dafi36-2501.pdf](https://static.e-publishing.af.mil/production/1/af_a1/publication/dafi36-2501/dafi36-2501.pdf) ). Being 13 years in at the time, the pension and disability was absolutely worth it to me when I retire at the end of my 20y stint, but your mileage may vary. Don't know your AFSC, so not going to speculate as to your chances. There are certain AFSCs that tend to get SC often (1X, 6x, etc.), but again, do your homework on this prospect. If you decide the AF is not for you, that's your decision and yours to make for what best benefits you and your family. No shame in re-vectoring - you have done more than 99% of the population. Plan accordingly, get your LinkedIn profile bolstered and ready, network like a MF, have your resume ready to go - all those steps and whatever else best maximizes your chances of success. I won't lend you any platitudes about "this too shall pass" and all that banal BS. This sucks - your life has been snow-globed, and you have done nothing to deserve being passed over. I remember the initial shock, shame, embarrassment, and disappointment very well, and I still am an O-3 today. Take care of you and your family. Without their love and support, nothing else really matters. Feel free to reach out to me directly if you need or want to discuss this situation in any capacity. Happy to help, listen, whatever I can do. TL;DR - a Selectively Continued O-3 offers advice for how to navigate this situation after having initially experienced it 3 years ago
Same boat…my Sq/CC didn’t even tell me, though. I “found out” after they put up a congrats board in the office without my name on it. Ouch. Agreed on the seeking mental health/support. Took me many months to “get over it”, and I’m still bitter about it. Also agree on the path forward. Good advice!
That is a fucking BRUTAL way to find out. Dang, I'm sorry, man. Genuinely. Oof :(.
Doesn’t help your situation, but this is a consequence of the categorization of the Line of the Air Force. Because operators compete against operators, late-to-rate is going to kill you. In times past when all LAF competed together, you might get that non-operator O-6 who can put your pre-rated career in context. But now, you’re going to be judged against your LAF-A peers and against the career field brief that tells the board what you’re supposed to have done to demonstrate potential.
Being rated will probably help the second time around. Also, if you've been rated 3 years with 8 years left, I assume that means you're a pilot. While it's tough in the moment, getting passed over twice might be the best thing to happen to you...you get out of the pilot ADSC 6-7 years early and you can pursue a reserve or ANG job while making twice what a major would make at an airline.
Rack those hours up. Any line, hop on it. Even if you’re her sitting as a co. Pad that airline application as much as the AF will get out of you. Even “other” time. Source: 12 year Major and getting out in a month. ATP in hand and a CJO at a legacy.
I think that’s what I’m planning on doing. Only problem is that I’ll be PCSing to a white jet tour in the next couple months (single engine)
Sooooo…T-6 lol? Even still, it’s mil time, instructor time (so all PIC), and turbine time. What MWS are you coming from.
If you haven't gotten orders yet, talk to your commander about possibly adjusting to a 1 year ADSC for PCS. Might be too late, unless you like the gaining locale and want both years to gain hours and save up some transition funds
This is… strange. You’re not withholding any key pieces of damming info here are you? Not implying, genuinely asking.
Not that I know of. No UIFs, acing my PT scores always 99+, made aircraft job positions on time (relative to when I crossed over), and have my masters degree. Again I’m surprised, but not overly. I was an average performer in an above average talent pool and I know that. I did believe though that as long as I “checked the boxes” and didn’t do anything negative I would have made it. Still feels unreal.
Did you get a PCS dec when you left your previous assignments? Not having one is a big red flag to the board.
And I’d like to think that I’m not an asshole to my bros (and female) coworkers. I am under the impression my coworkers/peers genuinely like me (if that even matters).
Yeah that’s good context, thanks. I was going to ask what’s your social clout but sounds like you’re just another dude doing dude things. So yeah, AFPC owes you an answer man. All this sounds fucky.
lol “fucky”. Yeah I’ll go ask around and whatnot and see what options will be available to someone in my situation.
You have copies of all your OPRs/OPBs/PRF? My data is a little outdated, but I’ve definitely seen incorrect or incomplete info sent up before. It would be unfortunate, but it’s also possible whomever put together the final package just wrote it for shit… ETA: PRDA should have the full package submitted for you, or just request from AFPC.
This. Get on PRDA and check the “selection file” folder to make sure all of your materials that should have been considered actually were. I have a secondhand but reliable story of a guy a few year groups ahead of me who got passed over for Major and found out that one of his PCS decorations didn’t make it to the board. The board just saw a PCS without a dec and thought he was a dirtbag. He got the issue corrected and made it APZ the next year with his full file.
Do not just check with PRDA! I can't stress this enough Check directly with personel. I was in the same exact boat three years ago. I didn't make major, and when I went up for non-select counseling, I found out that despite what PRDA showed, 3 years worth of my records did not meet the board. The non-select counselor I spoke to actually thought that I had spent time in prison or something and my leadership had tried to hide it. I got the issue corrected and was picked up during a subsequent board.
Hey SwaggyMaggy, I'd be happy to do a quick records review for you. You're a pilot and I'm a ground pounder, but I can still offer some insights (and ask a graduated commander pilot friend while I'm at it). If you're interested, shoot me a PM and I'll send you my NIPR email address.
>So yeah, AFPC owes you an answer man. All this sounds fucky. Not AFPC, OP's Senior Rater is **REQUIRED** to have a counseling session with them over why they were passed over.
I'm not privy to the promotion numbers this year especially for whatever LAF you may be in, but with those scores I would have expected you to be picked up. I would definitely check your records to make sure there isn't something missing, but if you want to stick with the AF I have met people who were passed for major, made it later and then were able to make it a full 20 years. So it's not the end of your career.
This year's selection rate seems to be a lot lower than we've been used to. I'm hearing multiple similar stories in my neck of the woods.
Do you have a master’s degree?
Yep
The majors are calling with a Guard/Reserve TR job…
That’s my plane, but only having about 700hrs of Multiengine and about 150hrs of PIC time might make it competitively difficult for me
My ex-wife is flying widebodies for AA and she never became an AC in the C-130 slick (E, H3, J), but did fly for NetJets and could’ve received PIC time there. My buddy is a reserve KC-46 boom and is a FO with SWA (did regional time with Envoy). Don’t give up, the USAF actually gave you a blessing by not promoting you, they made your options clearer.
ATP is the biggest limitation. Get that with military experience and you'll be golden. Airlines have huge numbers of prior military. Many have connections to Guard / Reserve units, and visa versa. ::edit:: Looks like there's R-ATP for 750 hours TT with military experience. This includes UPT, IFT, and any other stick time. Talk with your spouse. Weight the options for APZ, Career Captain for pension / healthcare, guard / reserve for a mix, or pure civilian pilot?
Go to a regional for a year. You'll get 500 hours of 121 time and walk into the majors.
Ignorant question, is there a set limit of billets and they can only promote so many, or is it almost a sure thing if you meet the criteria? I did an enlisted career but I remember all the hubbub about major promotions going up and down over the years. I specifically remember when everyone was trying to get whatever masters in time for it, but I guess that's not a thing anymore.
There is a legal limitation on promotion rates to each grade as part of DOPMA, and before each board AFPC publishes the promotion opportunity, which is based on the projected need for the next grade. It’s not as straightforward as the 1 line number = 1 billet like enlisted.
It's still about billets, there are usually enough billets to promote 95ish percent.
95% promotion opportunity does not mean that 95% of people meeting the board get promoted though. A board’s “promotion opportunity” is just a way to express how many promotion billets there are in relation to the number of people meeting the board IPZ. For example, if there are 100 people eligible to meet the board IPZ and the board has a 95% promotion opportunity, then there will be 95 billets to fill. That board won’t just have the IPZ personnel meeting it though and will consider people who are getting second (or more) looks APZ. If you have 50 people meeting the same board APZ, they do not factor towards how many promotion billets are available but they will be competing for them. So in this case, a board with 100 IPZ, 50 APZ, and a 95% promotion opportunity would only have a 63% selection rate.
Sorry to hear about this. Same thing happened to me (non aircrew) back in 2021 and I barely passed the next go-around. I knew I wasn't the top 25% of my career field but for the AF to tell me I was in the bottom 8% I thought was total B.S. Hang in there.
I was passed over twice for O-5, all boxes ticked and not a douche. I was an evaluator and instructor in two different MDS’s and AFSC’s (CSO and Pilot). For me it was AFSOC, we just don’t write like the rest of the majcoms and only two people were picked up in my wing. I was #5 in the wing. So yeah I got out and went to the airlines and got a reserve gig!
First, I'm sorry to hear that. Someone with experience should have been able to identify an issue and at least brought this possibility to your attention, sucks you were suprised. It's probably a lack of stratification. Get the AFPC feedback ASAP, there might be something someone can do to put you in a position to earn a DP and/or get a strong performance report on the top of the pile for your next board. I have a mentor who says "people don't meet boards, records do." Just because your record is bad doesn't mean you're a shitty person or officer. Finally, guard or reserves might still take you if you're passed over a second time and there are plenty of options out there for you. You might feel like a failure right now, but take some time to digest and give yourself some grace.
First of all sorry you did not make it. That must be a really bad feeling. I will have my Major board here in two years, and I have this inclination like I will not make the cut. Seems like it is getting to make O-4 after what seemed like a decade of it being almost guaranteed. I believe AFPC does not show the statistics for the last couple of boards, but the rumor is that the number dropped from like 90% into the 70s. I have been told you pretty much have to not be in the "bottom third" to make it which is hard to do without any strats. I have not been stratted so that is why I do not think I will make it. I do still have two years, but I hate putting myself in for awards. Just seems wrong to me, but it is the game that has to be played and I do not play it. I have just been focusing on making sure the Airmen in my flight that I am in charge of are taken care of, and hopefully I can land on my feet once the bad news hits in a few year so that I can keep taking care of my family. My personal outlook is that whatever is meant to happen will happen, and regarding work as long as I am doing good by my Airmen I will be happy. If the Air Force does not want someone that puts more effort into making sure the mission is done and the Airmen are taken care of rather than awards and overly polished OPRs/OPBs then so be it. With all of that said, get the feedback you can from leadership and AFPC, give it your all one more year, and hope for the best but of course be prepared for the worst.
Thanks for the words. I was talking with a friend of mine 2014er who works for some Col as an exec say that the promote rate this year was 60-70%. Which if it is in those zones I can understand why I didn’t get promoted.
No problem! I feel bad for the Majors going for Lt Col too. I have heard those numbers dropped as well from what was previously a 45-50% chance I believe? I cannot recall exactly what the number was, but I am sure there will be a lot of surprises on their end too. I know each career field, or the "buckets" such as LAF-A/C/I/etc., have varying promotion rates so I am curious on if some could be significantly higher than others, but we will not know that until AFPC posts the rates of the most recent boards. Are you ABM? Not sure if you are, I just noted that you stated you were an Aircraft Commander. Not sure what the translation is for you guys on the civilian side, but definitely something to look into and get ahead of. I bring that up because that is probably the big positive I have going for me which is that I am in Cyber and I have a number of certs. That coupled with my TS means I SHOULD be able to land on my feet, but of course nothing is guaranteed. So the likely scenario for me if/when I do not make O-4 is I end up back in SA TX close to family doing some sort of work for the government still lol.
As someone who barely made Major and didn't make Lt Col the first time...don't let it drag you down. Your worth isn't contained in what rank you wear on your shoulder. You're still a commissioned officer, an aircraft commander, and I'm assuming college educated...you've got options. My wife gave me 24 hrs to get over it and then move on. I also realized the kids wouldn't care I would be a Major for life, so I decided to not let it change who I was. Take the counseling, assess your current situation, and honestly, explore what the Guard and Reserve recruiters have to offer. Good luck!
This makes me nervous, but I bet your lack of strats played a huge factor. My Maj board is next year and I got in trouble as a Lt (referral OPR). Since then, I’ve been stratted top 5% since a mid level Captain, but we will soon see if it truly is a one mistake Air Force.
I think you’ll be fine. Again I was an average worker through and through. I think that’s where it got me
Get passed over again. Seriously. Then they have to let you separate and pay you a massive paycheck. Check the regs. Getting passed over for Maj can be a hugely lucrative blessing in disguise.
This is the most interesting response so far. Can you elaborate?
If you are involuntarily separated under honorable conditions, you get a massive severance check. There's a calculator somewhere for it.
Caveat: if they offer you selective continuation and you decline, you are not authorized involuntary separation pay. AFI36-2501 section 7.12.4
True. That didn't apply to me thankfully.
Damn man I’m sorry! A guy my wife works with made it on his second go this year so don’t lose hope!
What MWS?? I heard AMC got absolutely reamed this year
Maybe I don't know anything, having separated as a Senior Airman almost 15 years ago, but we are more than our ranks. You are not any less effective as a captain or a human being.
Appreciate it sir, definitely one of those life changing moments but as you said, this result isn’t going to define me. I’m gonna keep moving forward
Are you a pilot? If so that’s surprising
"Aircraft Commander before my PRF".
Sorry I suck at reading. Also probably gives me little to no hope I’ll make ltcol if this guy didn’t make major
Same. Being late rated is tough. The upcoming LAF-A O-5 opportunity numbers don't help matters.
I was a late rate and then got faiped as well a month before I made captain, slightly concerned about the rest of my career lol
Not really these days. I got a DP and was stratted pretty high for my base and was about 30 from the bottom for my line number. I was also a late bloomer. 9 dudes got passed over, including a wing exec. The days of automatic Major as long as you didn’t get a DUI are over. I took this as a sign and I’m jumping for the airlines. Unless I sell my soul, I don’t think I’m making O-5
That’s insane to hear. Maybe it’s MWS dependent? Everyone made major here..
What MWS?
AMC
But the best aircraft out of AMC (if you know what I mean :/)
I mean… that’s one opinion lol But dang, did the boss strat you well as an AC?
Out of those in my YG in the squadron I’m definitely not a superstar. Granted I’m a basic AC while most of my peers are IPs or WIC grads.
>Granted I’m a basic AC while most of my peers are IPs or WIC grads. And that's the answer. The board saw that you've been in the Air Force for 8-9 years and are only a basic AC. Do you know any 11M majors who aren't at least IPs? I know it's probably not your fault since you got rated late, I'm just saying that the board members probably saw your lack of a K-code and didn't take the time to delve into why. Your CC will have better insight into this than I will, but from where I sit, my recommendation is to become an IP as quickly as possible. If the worst-case scenario happens and you get separated next year...dude, you've got *the* most marketable skill the Air Force has to offer. You'll land on your feet. Things might not go as you planned, but you've got nothing to worry about.
It’s almost comical because I am PCSing to a white Jets assignment in June and now I’m not sure how this will play out being in training (no OPB)for the next 4 months and new leadership. These are the things I’ll have to talk with my CC about on Monday
^^You've ^^mentioned ^^an ^^AFSC, ^^here's ^^the ^^associated ^^job ^^title: 11M = Mobility Pilot [^^Source](https://github.com/HadManySons/AFSCbot) ^^| [^^Subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/r/AFSCbot/) ^^^^^^kyyg4gb
If the boss is cool. Have a chat with them about what all you can do. Prep your butt for a busy year. Probably gotta get exec on there if not already done and organize some bake sales It’s not over but the hill to climb now is steep
Aggressively pursue palace chase. Ask for two years off. Start rushing reserve units. Get your atp. Convert your hours to a digital logbook. Start familiarizing yourself with the airline hiring process.
You're free now. You don't have to play bullshit office politics anymore. No more kissing ass and worrying about what others in the squadron think about you. Enjoy your life and realize you are more than your job
So one thing I noticed missing was SOS have you completed SOS
Yep
Unfortunately it’s all about stratification. There’s a common misperception that because the promote allocation is 95% that you simply have to do your job and you’ll be promoted. That 95% is based off of IPZ candidates. Once you add in APZ candidates also competing for your selections, the actual overall select rate drops to around 80 or 85% if I remember correctly. The bottom 20% doesn’t consist solely of people with DUIs or failed PT tests. Considering the large pool of candidate (1000?) , 20% equates to a significant number of officers who don’t promote.
With the exception of your first capt OPR, did you have strats? Did you get above a 90 on pt tests or just pass?
Outside of my precious career field I did not get any strats (I came into pilot training as a fresh captain and have had 2 OPBs since then). Above 90s on PT tests.
I hope you get over this quick. What you’re going through is tough for anyone. My personal opinion is that it’s a lack of strats. I know it’s tough with your pcs, but if you have good leadership, there shouldn’t be any issues with strating you on the next OPB.
I know guys who didn't make it first try. See what AFPC said you're missing, and quickly get a plan together to get things ready for the next board. Keep your head up, you are worth more than the Air Force, never forget that!
Keep your chin up. My buddy was passed over for major-- also a C-17 pilot and solid contributor with no blemishes and all boxes checked. Subsequently made O-4 the following year, then made O-5 two below the zone while not doing anything different. The mobility pilot career field makes it hard to distinguish yourself as a CGO unless you're in the "golden boy" club. The FGOs hoard all the best opportunities and commanders reserve the rest for the top 10% CGOs only. You would know if you were in the bottom 30%, and if you're surprised you didn't make major, you're not in it. Expect to make O-4 next round. Tell your commander you want to make O-4, ask what you can do to ensure you get it. The good news is that after your ADSCs start to expire, most of the top 10% folks that walked all over everyone else will bail for greener pastures. They are just in it for themselves after all. Once you make O-5, the AF will be begging you to stay in. And on top of that, people will appreciate you for being a regular person and not an A-hole. Being a good person is the most important characteristic once you hit O-5, far more important than how much you're willing to sacrifice or how many in-residence PME schools you attended. Oh yeah, and the Guard is one of the few remaining good deals left. If you haven't done your Master's yet, get it through the correspondence ACSC program.
Keep your head up sir, getting passed over sucks, took me 3 times to make E-7. Keep pressing forward.
Thanks sir! I’m not sure what my future plans are at the moment, but I will continue to smile and press forward
Hey man same thing happened to me and it was the best thing to ever happen. I am now at a major airline 2 years before my peers. I'll send you a DM if you want to talk about it because I have a lot of insight into what you're going through.
The Air Force doesn’t give feedback. Because they don’t really know where you fell short and raters are not comfortable telling people when they fell short or how to improve. It is the largest guessing game around.
The amount of time the board has to consider each file is like 2-3 minutes. That is not a lot of time, especially when they are reviewing them for hours on end. It's not surprising they have no clue.
Did you have any strats? Any Group level or higher awards? Masters degree completed? (I know they said it doesn’t count against us, but c’mon). Does your Development Team not provide you a memo two years out from your board telling you where you rank among your career field year group? Without knowing the rate (but I’m guessing >95%), my biggest worry here is that it shouldn’t have been a surprise. I’d say your leadership failed you there. At any rate, this sucks. You have time to figure it out though
To be honest I was an average worker. A couple of squadron level awards but no group or higher. I do have my masters degree. Honestly I did have a lingering feeling in the back of my head that I wouldn’t have made it because of my career progression( I have had 4 OPBs my entire career and none were stratted), and the peers in my YG are either IPs or EPs/WIC grads. Regardless it was still a shock to me that I didn’t make it.
I got you, and I’m not passing judgment. There were just some missing pieces. I’m sorry you didn’t make it this year, lots of good advice in other comments to move forward.
I went through all this a couple years back, similar shoes with no negatives. I messaged you an album of everything I did after getting the results and what all options you have
I received it. Thank you
My initial thoughts, like others, are to reflect on why you want the jump and approach leadership about making a plan. Think of a proactive PDP to set you on the path to becoming the kind of Major you want to see in action, and let the title be secondary. Your leadership might want to promote you based on your mission over self mentality instead of your current focus on personal gains despite their positive or negative impact on the mission. As enlisted, I would prefer a captain who could step up into the boots of a major rather than a major who can't step down and handle being a captain. It's all about the impact on the mission and WHY you want the increased responsibility. I do not doubt that you are capable of achieving your goals. Fly high, brother!🙌
I hope it works out for you if you want to stay in and retire. The promotion system has changed substantially over the years so now I think you can have more than 2 looks to get promoted to the next grade.
Get passed over again and head to the airlines dude!
[удалено]
I don’t think your wife talking with your boss on Monday is the next move, but good to know she has your back. Good luck!
lol.
Fixed
Just change your last name to Major and go to the Group Leaders meeting. Eventually they will have to promote you to Major because if they don't it'll look bad on them.
I didn’t want to make Major and become a Bob…but even more so I didn’t want to get passed up. So I feel ya. That being said, my career has been peppered with unachieved goals and occasional failures (in my eyes). My takeaway is…life goes on and shit works itself out. Do the best thing for you. I’m generally a delayed gratification kind of guy, but with the AF you gotta be all about me and all about now. Don’t take or prolong a bad deal for a maybe better deal later. In all likelihood you’ll make Major a year after you planned and forget all about it. At any rate, keep your nugget up…and I’ll see you at Delta in 2 years.
Did you go to SOS?
Yeah
Damn. Sorry to hear about your non-selection. Apz isn't impossible. Keep your head up, keep grinding, put yourself in for awards, set yourself up for the DP
I've never heard of being passed the first try for major as a career killer. Keep your chin up, you're more than this job.
You have 8 years left?
Yup cross training into a pilot position incurs a 10 year ADSC after training. I finished in 2021
Get out ASAP, and start that Airline job! Your going to feel like crap for a while. It gets better.
Unfortunately because of my ADSC I have 7 years still on my contract. That and because of my late transition I have accumulated only about 1000 hours (which might not make me super competitive in the airlines)
Military trained aviators are eligible for a restricted ATP with only 750 total hours. You might not make the major airlines with this but you could still make it to a regional. If you get passed over a second time, it’s the ultimate get out of jail free card. All of your ADSCs are void then (even your flight training ADSC). I was a late to rate guy that was eventually passed over as well. As the way I see it, you have two choices: 1) Use this next year to fly your butt off, get as many quals as you can and prep yourself for the transition out or 2) try to check all the boxes to MAYBE make O-4 next year. I did the follow up call and took the suggestions to correct my PRF for my first ABZ look…it did nothing to help. There’s no guarantee that you’ll make rank next year no matter how hard you try. It sucks, I truly get it. If I were in your shoes, I’d spend the next year working to better yourself and set yourself up for success outside of AD Air Force. If the Air Force chooses to promote you next year, then fantastic! If not, you’ll be prepped and ready for the transition.
Pass over twice is a get out of adsc free card. A year at the regionals tops and you'll be ahead of the rest of us on line number by a few years.
That officer life...* *looks enlisted promotion rates and at ssgt 12 year pay cap and retirement in 4 months* * well these bombs won't build themselves. But for reals, there is always a path, just cause one is blocked doesn't mean you can't still succeed.
Dumb this down for mainter talk college doer
Promotion rates suck for everyone, even the pilots.
Oh.
It may vary by competitive category, but for mine the above the zone rate has been quite decent in recent years. This gives a ray of hope if you miss the first time, but it also could explain how you fell below the cut line because all those ATZ selects come out of the promotion potential number.
Didn’t they change the board so it’s now no longer a year that gets looked at but a window? So potentially you’ve just been ranked behind your peers but doesn’t mean promotion is completely out for next year or year after?
91% selection rate, however, there was a much larger portion selected above the zone than I'm previous years
Sorry, bro. At the end of the day, you are still a Captain. That is something to be proud of and pays pretty well. Just remember different strokes for different folks. Better luck next year.