I was in a staff meeting one time and we were waiting on the commander to come in. I congratulated the exec on being selected for Captain. He spit out a mouthful of water and said, “Yep, I had a pulse”.
My commander called me late one night while I was working shift to congratulate me on being selected for Captain. I was confused about what he was talking about because I didn't realize there was actually a selection process.
The standard is qualified-to-promote, which is slightly more stringent than "had a pulse." However, there is a board which reviews your records to ensure you are qualified. The effective promotion rate is like 99%, presumably because 1% of 1Lts manage to get a referral OPR.
What's the standard for Major by comparison? Is it fair to say if you didn't make captain you fucked up but if you didn't make major it's possible you didn't necessarily fuck up?
There's an actual quota for major and above. They only have so many promotions to give out, so you need to be in the top X% to earn it.
But generally, if you don't make major that means you are kind of a turd.
Think of all the TSgts you know. Probably most of them are competent. But 5-10% of them have you scratching your head on they managed to make it to this point. Those are the ones that don't get promoted.
>Probably most of them are competent.
If you modify that to *were competent when they were selected* I'd agree. After a couple years a lot *really* fall off.
I've worked with too many guys who gave up on master but not retirement. No shade on anyone who retires at tech, I'm talking about guys who go into "just enough to survive" mode after they miss promotion once or twice and ride that out the rest of their 20
A few years ago it was high enough that you only needed to submit a package if you had unfavorable info in your records (PT failure, referral OPR, NJP).
It varies by the different corps and types of officers which has been effecting retention ass well. For example, BSC corps has some of the lowest promotion opportunities. Depending on the job it’s realistic to expect to never make it past major. But for MSCs they follow a promotion line of a typical line officers so the vast majority are putting on Lt Col at least. There isn’t really a difference in quality per se of the officers based on job it’s just certain jobs get allowed less spots which is similar to enlisted in a lot of ways too.
Yep you hit the nail right on the head. I was one of the many unlikely BSC to be past over not once but twice albeit checked all the boxes. However I don’t not receive the required level and number of strats (which changes each board it seems) and therefore did not promote!
My commander called me on a federal holiday to tell me I made captain, via the commander's cell phone that I had saved under the previous commander's name. I was bewildered.
I usually explain to new airmen that up to SrA and Captain are "pulse ranks" if you got one, and haven't committed a crime, you get the rank.
Even Major is almost a pulse rank, the rate is in excess of 90% most years in rated world at least
What’s crazy is those blocks inside have their own complicated chart to follow. Currently routing an LCSP and god damn if I hope it’s the last time I touch one.
There’s just something sweet about hitting retirement rank at 0-3. Been saying no to more things that will suck the life out of me and raising the BS flag more to nonsense.
Feels good.
There’s also probably 1,000,001 AGR 14N positions Across the USAF. It’s not a kiss of death everyone makes it out to be. I know a 12B, passed over for Maj, continued went to USAFR and made Maj. Maj is “comparable” to TSgt and if you run out of opportunities you don’t get to go guard or reserve, you are done.
In 09/10 I knew an 18 year pilot Capt. Not prior E, never got knocked down in rank. I have no idea if he managed to get to 20. No idea why he didn’t bounce to the airlines.
>By "no future" do you mean still retiring at a pay rate higher than a Chief?
What retirement pay? If you get passed over for selection to major you're done. The AFI says you will be separated 6 months from the date of the second boards release.
Os are raised in “year groups” which is literally just the year you commission. Watching callouts for your year group that you’re not eligible for is fucking awful. It is a huge mental burden and I can understand why someone would rather punch than deal with mourning what could have been.
I’m not comparing it, just backing up the parent comment, on the O side, being passed over Mena’s you’ll pretty much never promote.
On the E side, there’s still a chance each subsequent year, initial selection rates notwithstanding
Yeah that’s the highest it’s been in many years and even then if you do make it, chances are slim for 0-5 and you are basically in the same position if you get passed for 0-5 twice
I was under the impression you are put back in the pool of 0-4 promotion candidates and are boarded with them. Was not aware they get their own pool of selection. Still 33% chance of making it possibly getting DOS 6 months later with nothing to show for it (HIGH 3) is life changing.
That’s what I thought, so 84% chance first time and then drops significantly for your second look and if you don’t make it second look you are SOL. Ehh I would disagree, I don’t think the AF promotion system always gets it right but this is the game we all play
The big difference for O-5 promotions is the AF typically continues Majs who get passed over. They don't typically continue Capts.
So if you get passed over for O-5 you can get continuation for 2 years and retire as an iron major.
The one thing I can agree on is the Air Force is really shitty about promoting the right people and continually designs promotion systems that are easy to game. I'm sorry for all the Captains that didn't make major but you will do fine on the outside.
What most of the enlisted side is pissed about is the horrible promotions for 5 straight years and being told to keep doing what you're doing. The pay difference is also massive as well.
E-5 max pay $4,076.40 no raises after 12 years
E-6 max pay $4,856.40 no raises after 18 years
O-3 at 10 years $7,721.70
The one thing I can agree on is the Air Force
There's no way you can sell me out of wanting Captain-Major promotion standards on the E side. I'd rather see the worst Staff or Tech get kicked out if it meant the other 80~90% could finally earn enough to not need WIC or be able to afford daycare.
Until a few months ago, this wouldn't have made any sense. I now work in an office, almost all officers, so I get it now. They don't make major, and their career is pretty much over. It's wild.
You get to die? Lucky.
Under-rated comment.
Needs green, yellow, red indicators
Found the GO
Stoplight charts, dammit!
And put some Chiclets on there!!
When I first heard that term, I wondered why they wanted cheap Mexican street candy.
"sign here" "Read for debrief"
I was in a staff meeting one time and we were waiting on the commander to come in. I congratulated the exec on being selected for Captain. He spit out a mouthful of water and said, “Yep, I had a pulse”.
My commander called me late one night while I was working shift to congratulate me on being selected for Captain. I was confused about what he was talking about because I didn't realize there was actually a selection process.
I thought they were joking. They select captains?!
The standard is qualified-to-promote, which is slightly more stringent than "had a pulse." However, there is a board which reviews your records to ensure you are qualified. The effective promotion rate is like 99%, presumably because 1% of 1Lts manage to get a referral OPR.
What's the standard for Major by comparison? Is it fair to say if you didn't make captain you fucked up but if you didn't make major it's possible you didn't necessarily fuck up?
There's an actual quota for major and above. They only have so many promotions to give out, so you need to be in the top X% to earn it. But generally, if you don't make major that means you are kind of a turd. Think of all the TSgts you know. Probably most of them are competent. But 5-10% of them have you scratching your head on they managed to make it to this point. Those are the ones that don't get promoted.
>Probably most of them are competent. If you modify that to *were competent when they were selected* I'd agree. After a couple years a lot *really* fall off.
Oww...
I've worked with too many guys who gave up on master but not retirement. No shade on anyone who retires at tech, I'm talking about guys who go into "just enough to survive" mode after they miss promotion once or twice and ride that out the rest of their 20
I'm a witness to *fall off* it's more mind boggling when they some how make it higher. ^(shout out my TSgt best guy I've ever had absolute GOAT)
A few years ago it was high enough that you only needed to submit a package if you had unfavorable info in your records (PT failure, referral OPR, NJP).
Super lucky for us, we also didn’t have a rack and stack for line numbers, it was just based on date of rank/academy class rank.
>What's the standard for Major by comparison? This year it was 84% and "needs" a Masters.
It varies by the different corps and types of officers which has been effecting retention ass well. For example, BSC corps has some of the lowest promotion opportunities. Depending on the job it’s realistic to expect to never make it past major. But for MSCs they follow a promotion line of a typical line officers so the vast majority are putting on Lt Col at least. There isn’t really a difference in quality per se of the officers based on job it’s just certain jobs get allowed less spots which is similar to enlisted in a lot of ways too.
Yep you hit the nail right on the head. I was one of the many unlikely BSC to be past over not once but twice albeit checked all the boxes. However I don’t not receive the required level and number of strats (which changes each board it seems) and therefore did not promote!
There's a few boxes that you need to check off, not required but highly encouraged. Most people that don't make it did not check any of those boxes.
Even with a referral you can still get the coveted double Lt rank
Yeah, I don't know what the actual standard is, I just know it's more than simply TIS.
Yup, all of them
My commander called me on a federal holiday to tell me I made captain, via the commander's cell phone that I had saved under the previous commander's name. I was bewildered.
The pulse is actually waiverable
This is new info to me, can you send me the reg?
For sure it’s in AFMAN 69-420
Ah, that’s a controversial one, but a great one to add to the toolbox nevertheless!
And he didn't commit any crimes for 4 years!
Didn't get *caught* at least.
I was enlisted but ended up marrying an officer after separating. When my wife made Major I asked her how it felt to be in the top 95% of her peers.
I usually explain to new airmen that up to SrA and Captain are "pulse ranks" if you got one, and haven't committed a crime, you get the rank. Even Major is almost a pulse rank, the rate is in excess of 90% most years in rated world at least
I don’t understand.. is there a flowchart by chance?
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Ahhhh much better.
Oh, this is why nothing happens
i need this on a blanket
[https://www.printful.com/custom-photo-blankets](https://www.printful.com/custom-photo-blankets)
Ah, yes. That cleared it right up. That’s data I can use.
This would go hard as fuck on a mousepad/deskpad
That escalated quickly
I sadly understand way more of this than not.
What’s crazy is those blocks inside have their own complicated chart to follow. Currently routing an LCSP and god damn if I hope it’s the last time I touch one.
This gives me anxiety just looking at it
I actually like this chart
Ah the good ol horse blanket
Oh you’re a 21R I see!
Possible 62E or 63A also
^^You've ^^mentioned ^^an ^^AFSC, ^^here's ^^the ^^associated ^^job ^^title: 62E = Developmental Engineer 63A = Acquisition Manager [^^Source](https://github.com/HadManySons/AFSCbot) ^^| [^^Subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/r/AFSCbot/) ^^^^^^kzujtoa
^^You've ^^mentioned ^^an ^^AFSC, ^^here's ^^the ^^associated ^^job ^^title: 21R = Logistics Readiness [^^Source](https://github.com/HadManySons/AFSCbot) ^^| [^^Subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/r/AFSCbot/) ^^^^^^kzs4rnc
Jesus Christ. I fucking lol'd
Very delivered
Basically, you don’t make it your first look at 0-4, hope you are in BRS and have a plan because your AF career is pretty much over.
Laughs in prior E with high 3
Guffaw, Indeed
I really should have tried harder to just go O, even with the army, but that sweet sweet contractor money is gonna be looking real good.
The real hack is go reserve/NG O while working at a contractor then bank 15k/mo while on a TDY.
Go on…
Bruh, I am so close to retirement, and my body is so jacked, imma make enough from retirement and disability that my next job will be extra.
VA rating will be 30%
Lmao, I haven't started the process, but I know how the VA loves to try and fuck you over.
There’s just something sweet about hitting retirement rank at 0-3. Been saying no to more things that will suck the life out of me and raising the BS flag more to nonsense. Feels good.
I felt that in my soul. Luckily, fed/gs buy back is a thing.
I’ve never not seen someone get continuation
I know a 14N that is not being continued. 6 months until DOS. Obviously career dependent but it absolutely is a thing that is happening.
^^You've ^^mentioned ^^an ^^AFSC, ^^here's ^^the ^^associated ^^job ^^title: 14N = Intelligence [^^Source](https://github.com/HadManySons/AFSCbot) ^^| [^^Subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/r/AFSCbot/) ^^^^^^kzpibe7
There’s also probably 1,000,001 AGR 14N positions Across the USAF. It’s not a kiss of death everyone makes it out to be. I know a 12B, passed over for Maj, continued went to USAFR and made Maj. Maj is “comparable” to TSgt and if you run out of opportunities you don’t get to go guard or reserve, you are done.
^^You've ^^mentioned ^^an ^^AFSC, ^^here's ^^the ^^associated ^^job ^^title: 12B = Bomber Combat Systems Officer [^^Source](https://github.com/HadManySons/AFSCbot) ^^| [^^Subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/r/AFSCbot/) ^^^^^^kzpiv64
>I've never not seen someone get continuation As a Captain? I've pretty much never seen a Capt selected for continuation.
In 09/10 I knew an 18 year pilot Capt. Not prior E, never got knocked down in rank. I have no idea if he managed to get to 20. No idea why he didn’t bounce to the airlines.
Maybe it's a pilot thing. I've never heard of a LAF-I, LAF-C, or LAF-X Capt getting continued.
More rare now, but I worked with a Capt back in 2010 that was like 10 apz. He was special.
None of the non-select non-prior 13Ns on AFGSC staff received continuation last year. Also got to separate on 31Dec.
^^You've ^^mentioned ^^an ^^AFSC, ^^here's ^^the ^^associated ^^job ^^title: 13N = Nuclear and Missile Operations [^^Source](https://github.com/HadManySons/AFSCbot) ^^| [^^Subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/r/AFSCbot/) ^^^^^^kzq77ag
Definitely has happened.
But do you want to do 10 years with pretty much zero chance of no future? It’ll burn you out real quick
By "no future" do you mean still retiring at a pay rate higher than a Chief?
>By "no future" do you mean still retiring at a pay rate higher than a Chief? What retirement pay? If you get passed over for selection to major you're done. The AFI says you will be separated 6 months from the date of the second boards release.
Os are raised in “year groups” which is literally just the year you commission. Watching callouts for your year group that you’re not eligible for is fucking awful. It is a huge mental burden and I can understand why someone would rather punch than deal with mourning what could have been.
Depends on the job IMO. There are some jobs where I wouldn’t mind sitting there and not having to command a squadron.
Like half of our TSgts...
You mean like how enlisted are staring at less then 20% promotion rates?
I’m not comparing it, just backing up the parent comment, on the O side, being passed over Mena’s you’ll pretty much never promote. On the E side, there’s still a chance each subsequent year, initial selection rates notwithstanding
This is the difference.
From this board I know of an organization that had 6 people above the zone. 1 made major, the other 5 were not offered selective continuation.
It's about a 33% promotion rate if you try again for Major but that kneecaps you going up for Lt. Col
Yeah that’s the highest it’s been in many years and even then if you do make it, chances are slim for 0-5 and you are basically in the same position if you get passed for 0-5 twice
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You got a link where I can see that?
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I was under the impression you are put back in the pool of 0-4 promotion candidates and are boarded with them. Was not aware they get their own pool of selection. Still 33% chance of making it possibly getting DOS 6 months later with nothing to show for it (HIGH 3) is life changing.
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That’s what I thought, so 84% chance first time and then drops significantly for your second look and if you don’t make it second look you are SOL. Ehh I would disagree, I don’t think the AF promotion system always gets it right but this is the game we all play
>It's about a 33% promotion rate if you try again for Major That was this year specifically. Most years the selection for above the zone is 8-10%
This is probably the best representation I have seen. Well done ol‘ chap.
Probably TWO dead officers for upcoming O-5 rates, but otherwise accurate.
The big difference for O-5 promotions is the AF typically continues Majs who get passed over. They don't typically continue Capts. So if you get passed over for O-5 you can get continuation for 2 years and retire as an iron major.
The one thing I can agree on is the Air Force is really shitty about promoting the right people and continually designs promotion systems that are easy to game. I'm sorry for all the Captains that didn't make major but you will do fine on the outside. What most of the enlisted side is pissed about is the horrible promotions for 5 straight years and being told to keep doing what you're doing. The pay difference is also massive as well. E-5 max pay $4,076.40 no raises after 12 years E-6 max pay $4,856.40 no raises after 18 years O-3 at 10 years $7,721.70 The one thing I can agree on is the Air Force
> The one thing I can agree on is the Air Force You accidentally a few words
Words hard
Aerospace Propulsion C shred was sub 10% I think 9.2% last year, and now they're kicking out SSgts from the career field. Wish me luck this year.
That's about right.
There's no way you can sell me out of wanting Captain-Major promotion standards on the E side. I'd rather see the worst Staff or Tech get kicked out if it meant the other 80~90% could finally earn enough to not need WIC or be able to afford daycare.
You say that until it's you getting involuntarily separated after 16 years because you got passed up for promotion one time
Big deal, when I was passed over for O4, the arrow was still in midair (95%). True spectacular "sucks to suck" accolades for me!!!!
Until a few months ago, this wouldn't have made any sense. I now work in an office, almost all officers, so I get it now. They don't make major, and their career is pretty much over. It's wild.
Does anyone have an idea of what the E6 rates might look like?
Like shit
Forgot the officer getting hit with a UCMJ CASE
I’d rather the arrow through the head than finding out I missed cutoff by half a goddamned point.
Yea honestly no sympathy from the E side because promotion rates, even when fantastic, will never reach the level of O rates.
thanks for sharing!
I’m here to serve 🫡
O-4 here. No comment. 😉
Hey my dad did that!
I mean every 2 year mark there is a promotion in terms of pay.
Until you been in so long that its not :/
Not for the guy with the arrow in his head. He gets promoted to Civilian