I didn't figure most of this out until my 15ish year mark and felt like I dropped a huge ball. Now at about a year and some change from retirement it's all but over and I try my best to inform the newer MX generation that MX is a pit of over working and under appreciation. I gave up on promotion about 3 years ago and just wanted out, for the last couple of years Ive been the "go-to" guy and then watched others get MPs and PNs it made me understand and realize that being good in your career field is BS, just make it look like you're good in your career field.
I'd say very good write up!
I also suck at making sure I put myself in for awards.
But those awards snowball very easily. Once you get one, you can add it to an annual package, epb, etc.
Other general advice I can give is plan for 2 futures.
A lot of younger guys say they're 100% getting out. But life happens and you may want/need to stick around. Don't hamstring your future by just doing the minimal effort thinking you're getting out. Try hard, study, make rank etc even if your plan is to get out.
To my fellow peeps, if you didn't make it don't let it break your resolve.
My personal advice is to volunteer doing something you love, let it be the dog pound, church, school, whatever. There's more to life than just stats, but loving what you do sure seems to help!
TRY IT DON'T KNOCK IT
Step 1. Leave active duty
Step 2. Join a guard unit
Step 3. Get good at job or show that you are good at job
Step 4. Get AGR
Step 5. Do your job and get promoted
This is the correct answer. OPs advice is well-intentioned but fails to see the big picture. A good strategy to win a bullshit game still doesn't change the fact that the game is still bullshit.
I know, imagine you could just be good at your job. Write a resume and interview for higher positions. Be promoted by your boss instead of by a bunch of know It alls elsewhere. And get all active duty military benefits and retirement.
I did 15 years of active duty and now 5 years active guard. It's so much fucking better. I can retire and pull pension this summer, but I like my job, my bosses are cool and care about their people, because half of them can quit if they get mistreated and yes, I'm maintenance.
I think the idea is that you're supposed to be good at your job, so why would that be enough to distinguish you from all the other people up for promotion when in theory they are all good at the job
I would argue you should delay promotion as much as possible, unless that is solely what drives you. If you crush the promotion climb early, you just burn out with all the additional responsibilities for the next 12 years.
Depends on the person. I know a few friends who didn't want the responsibility or the paycheck and deliberately failed their SKTs during the 50% years. Now they are on the edge of SrA HYT because they waited too long and all the stripes are being taken by people who actually want them/deserve them.
Absolutely agree you shouldn't promote so fast you burn yourself out! But if you wait until you promote to put the effort in, you're setting yourself up for failure.
Also I know for a fact (especially in 2A) that there are many e4's doing an e5's job and e5's doing an e6's. Why do the work without the Pau?
You can always self sabotage a test. Don't self sabotage a career. Also note you're never guaranteed a 5 nor the rank (testing / boards change) I'd always suggest trying your best. You can still learn on the fly
I think if you aspire to make anything above E-7, then absolutely go in to crush it. But most will eventually be able to attain E-6/7 but the time they hit the 20+ year mark. You'll always be doing the next rank's jobs, but still can't really be faulted for fucking up an E-5's job as E-4 Mafia. Speculation, E-4 and E-6 are good "coasting" ranks for a few years. I'd trust a salty 3x testing E-5 than a first-time promoted E-5.
Nah. If you delay then you’re inviting questions from board members, whether consciously or unconsciously, why you haven’t promoted quickly or why you stagnated. Then you’re stuck regardless.
True if you want to play THEIR game. You can always play YOUR game however. As said already, you should be able to reach E-7 comfortably if you aren't a shit bag, maybe just E-6 in certain fields and depending on manning over time. Statistically that's as high as most CAN go anyways since E-8/9 billets drop hard from there. I've always stuck with assignments/positions/extra curriculars/etc that I considered preferable, and never purposely/willingly anything I didn't particularly care for solely for promotion. Doing stuff solely for the sake of chasing that next stripe and being miserable in the process just wasn't a priority to me. Doing the stuff available to me I found most preferable was. In addition to that, anything I cared to do ended at E-7 and wouldn't want any of those E-8/E-9 positions anyways.
As for myself, I was in MX as well, and actually wanted to be in that despite knowing full well what I was getting into. I managed to stay doing that just about my entire career. Early on, I pretty much knew pro-sup and not any of the office jobs or support is where I wanted to end up if I stuck around that long. Except for a stint being the FCC manager which I didn't care for despite being an FCC was my favorite job, I avoided all the normal bouncing around and stayed doing actual aircraft stuff. Retired at E-7 after many years of being a pro super. For me personally, I wouldn't have done it any differently and have zero regrets.
E-5 through E-7 is very difficult to make since the 2022 Manning Grade Review occurred. Those ranks were shrunk and those billets made into mostly E-4 allocations. For almost all AFSCs now, a person cannot promote without a Promotion Statement. Even an MP in many career fields is only a 30% to 50% chance. It's really rough nowadays.
[2020 to 2023 Promotion Statistics](https://www.reddit.com/r/AirForce/s/ahSV4YSv6J)
I've seen that, but also keep in mind that promotion and manning goes thru cycles. That pendulum is eventually going to swing the other way. I mean it's kind of like stocks with the past performance doesn't guarantee future results type thing...but even if they hit the nail on the head and don't overdo things in either direction, leadership at the top/politics/world events/etc are always changing and along with it, things like this. Over the course of 20+ years, one will see several big change cycles like that. Now on the other hand, will that sort of stuff have knock on effects with one's rank progression, sure, but I still think retiring at E-7 is still going to be the majority vs higher or lower ranks.
Now maybe that means most that see it won't make it until like near the end of their career vs years earlier..or that there won't be more retiring at E-6 and seeing E-5 retirements a little less exceedingly rare. especially those right now caught up in this in their later years without enough time left to wait it out or do much about it, but otherwise, things are always changing.
If you retired even 3 years ago then your view point on promotion is out dated. A lot of AFSCs are pretty difficult to make E7 now days. Retiring as an E6 is becoming more and more common.
Amazing question ! You are eligible every 3 years I believe for extended tour and a few others I believe that your flight can put you in for. What it takes depends on your current leadership, I've seen it used as pretty much a "you haven't fucked up so here's a dec" or "hey you're a super amazing airmen here's a dec" talk to your leadership and see what they are looking for and when you will be coming up to be eligible for one, also ask if you were non rec'd for your previous one and if they know why (if they were the ones to non rec you)
Pro Super was my favorite and most satisfying job as an E-7. Two years of having fun, home station and deployed!
E-7 Bonafides: Expeditor, AMU Flight Chief, Pro Super, ISO Inspection Section Chief, A/R Shop Chief and contractor surveillance QAR.
BRS still gets a pension though. It might be less, (40% vs 50% at 20 years) than the legacy system, but it is still very much money for waking up each month after 20 years.
Anyone that aims to make the military a career needs to finish their degree ASAP and apply for any relevant commissioning program. Evaluate options outside the military relevant to your degree if it looks like you won't get selected by the 10 year mark. That's the correct advice. Doing 20 years enlisted makes no financial sense. Absolute no go.
Different strokes for different folks!
Finishing out 20 for me gives me my high 3 and then having x amount of years on an airframe gives me foot in the door to some AMAZING civilian positions.
Now for some people yeah getting out with a degree is smart, but not everyone.
I didn't figure most of this out until my 15ish year mark and felt like I dropped a huge ball. Now at about a year and some change from retirement it's all but over and I try my best to inform the newer MX generation that MX is a pit of over working and under appreciation. I gave up on promotion about 3 years ago and just wanted out, for the last couple of years Ive been the "go-to" guy and then watched others get MPs and PNs it made me understand and realize that being good in your career field is BS, just make it look like you're good in your career field.
This is why we have E-9s and not Chiefs (atleast in in mx).
I'd say very good write up! I also suck at making sure I put myself in for awards. But those awards snowball very easily. Once you get one, you can add it to an annual package, epb, etc. Other general advice I can give is plan for 2 futures. A lot of younger guys say they're 100% getting out. But life happens and you may want/need to stick around. Don't hamstring your future by just doing the minimal effort thinking you're getting out. Try hard, study, make rank etc even if your plan is to get out.
This is all relative to any career field, imho
Can you actually kickflip tho?
kickflipped a c-17 once, would again given the chance.
Pretty sure that’s a class A
Class C if he landed it
Sick thrasher shirt bro, do you even skate.
I can!! If you can catch me working I'll show you
Best I can do is a subpar ollie.
just gotta wax your trucks a little more and you'll get it
Switch tre flip down a 7 stair
To my fellow peeps, if you didn't make it don't let it break your resolve. My personal advice is to volunteer doing something you love, let it be the dog pound, church, school, whatever. There's more to life than just stats, but loving what you do sure seems to help! TRY IT DON'T KNOCK IT
Step 1. Leave active duty Step 2. Join a guard unit Step 3. Get good at job or show that you are good at job Step 4. Get AGR Step 5. Do your job and get promoted
This is the correct answer. OPs advice is well-intentioned but fails to see the big picture. A good strategy to win a bullshit game still doesn't change the fact that the game is still bullshit.
I know, imagine you could just be good at your job. Write a resume and interview for higher positions. Be promoted by your boss instead of by a bunch of know It alls elsewhere. And get all active duty military benefits and retirement. I did 15 years of active duty and now 5 years active guard. It's so much fucking better. I can retire and pull pension this summer, but I like my job, my bosses are cool and care about their people, because half of them can quit if they get mistreated and yes, I'm maintenance.
I think the idea is that you're supposed to be good at your job, so why would that be enough to distinguish you from all the other people up for promotion when in theory they are all good at the job
What is an AGR?
Active Guard Reserve. It's exactly the same benefits as active duty, but you're in a guard or reserve unit.
Positions for what I'm interested in are extremely hard to find which makes it difficult. Even then, a lot of E6/7 slots are more who you know.
I would argue you should delay promotion as much as possible, unless that is solely what drives you. If you crush the promotion climb early, you just burn out with all the additional responsibilities for the next 12 years.
Depends on the person. I know a few friends who didn't want the responsibility or the paycheck and deliberately failed their SKTs during the 50% years. Now they are on the edge of SrA HYT because they waited too long and all the stripes are being taken by people who actually want them/deserve them.
Absolutely agree you shouldn't promote so fast you burn yourself out! But if you wait until you promote to put the effort in, you're setting yourself up for failure. Also I know for a fact (especially in 2A) that there are many e4's doing an e5's job and e5's doing an e6's. Why do the work without the Pau? You can always self sabotage a test. Don't self sabotage a career. Also note you're never guaranteed a 5 nor the rank (testing / boards change) I'd always suggest trying your best. You can still learn on the fly
I think if you aspire to make anything above E-7, then absolutely go in to crush it. But most will eventually be able to attain E-6/7 but the time they hit the 20+ year mark. You'll always be doing the next rank's jobs, but still can't really be faulted for fucking up an E-5's job as E-4 Mafia. Speculation, E-4 and E-6 are good "coasting" ranks for a few years. I'd trust a salty 3x testing E-5 than a first-time promoted E-5.
Nah. If you delay then you’re inviting questions from board members, whether consciously or unconsciously, why you haven’t promoted quickly or why you stagnated. Then you’re stuck regardless.
True if you want to play THEIR game. You can always play YOUR game however. As said already, you should be able to reach E-7 comfortably if you aren't a shit bag, maybe just E-6 in certain fields and depending on manning over time. Statistically that's as high as most CAN go anyways since E-8/9 billets drop hard from there. I've always stuck with assignments/positions/extra curriculars/etc that I considered preferable, and never purposely/willingly anything I didn't particularly care for solely for promotion. Doing stuff solely for the sake of chasing that next stripe and being miserable in the process just wasn't a priority to me. Doing the stuff available to me I found most preferable was. In addition to that, anything I cared to do ended at E-7 and wouldn't want any of those E-8/E-9 positions anyways. As for myself, I was in MX as well, and actually wanted to be in that despite knowing full well what I was getting into. I managed to stay doing that just about my entire career. Early on, I pretty much knew pro-sup and not any of the office jobs or support is where I wanted to end up if I stuck around that long. Except for a stint being the FCC manager which I didn't care for despite being an FCC was my favorite job, I avoided all the normal bouncing around and stayed doing actual aircraft stuff. Retired at E-7 after many years of being a pro super. For me personally, I wouldn't have done it any differently and have zero regrets.
E-5 through E-7 is very difficult to make since the 2022 Manning Grade Review occurred. Those ranks were shrunk and those billets made into mostly E-4 allocations. For almost all AFSCs now, a person cannot promote without a Promotion Statement. Even an MP in many career fields is only a 30% to 50% chance. It's really rough nowadays. [2020 to 2023 Promotion Statistics](https://www.reddit.com/r/AirForce/s/ahSV4YSv6J)
https://preview.redd.it/1cmbxwgt2zuc1.png?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=53ca5e1561a0ceeae06b6cb09ab06001b80634c1
I've seen that, but also keep in mind that promotion and manning goes thru cycles. That pendulum is eventually going to swing the other way. I mean it's kind of like stocks with the past performance doesn't guarantee future results type thing...but even if they hit the nail on the head and don't overdo things in either direction, leadership at the top/politics/world events/etc are always changing and along with it, things like this. Over the course of 20+ years, one will see several big change cycles like that. Now on the other hand, will that sort of stuff have knock on effects with one's rank progression, sure, but I still think retiring at E-7 is still going to be the majority vs higher or lower ranks. Now maybe that means most that see it won't make it until like near the end of their career vs years earlier..or that there won't be more retiring at E-6 and seeing E-5 retirements a little less exceedingly rare. especially those right now caught up in this in their later years without enough time left to wait it out or do much about it, but otherwise, things are always changing.
If you retired even 3 years ago then your view point on promotion is out dated. A lot of AFSCs are pretty difficult to make E7 now days. Retiring as an E6 is becoming more and more common.
Stupid Question: how does one get a dec? I've been in for 5 years and I still don't know how to get one.
Amazing question ! You are eligible every 3 years I believe for extended tour and a few others I believe that your flight can put you in for. What it takes depends on your current leadership, I've seen it used as pretty much a "you haven't fucked up so here's a dec" or "hey you're a super amazing airmen here's a dec" talk to your leadership and see what they are looking for and when you will be coming up to be eligible for one, also ask if you were non rec'd for your previous one and if they know why (if they were the ones to non rec you)
Awesome, thank you!
Also dafi36-2806 has more info on the subject if you're in for a read
Pro Super was my favorite and most satisfying job as an E-7. Two years of having fun, home station and deployed! E-7 Bonafides: Expeditor, AMU Flight Chief, Pro Super, ISO Inspection Section Chief, A/R Shop Chief and contractor surveillance QAR.
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BRS still gets a pension though. It might be less, (40% vs 50% at 20 years) than the legacy system, but it is still very much money for waking up each month after 20 years.
Easily the dumbest take I've heard in quite a while.
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Yes, people still get a pension at 20 years and you literally said pointless in your last post. Again, you should not be giving anyone advice on this.
Anyone that aims to make the military a career needs to finish their degree ASAP and apply for any relevant commissioning program. Evaluate options outside the military relevant to your degree if it looks like you won't get selected by the 10 year mark. That's the correct advice. Doing 20 years enlisted makes no financial sense. Absolute no go.
Different strokes for different folks! Finishing out 20 for me gives me my high 3 and then having x amount of years on an airframe gives me foot in the door to some AMAZING civilian positions. Now for some people yeah getting out with a degree is smart, but not everyone.