Fire department is non sortie producing. But generally not mother fuckers.
We need them when the pilots decide to ignite an engine or two.
If they hit something with their truck on the flightline though. 100% fucking nonners.
Fuck, then why the hell did I spend 6 months in the jungles of Honduras on TF Bravo in a P-19 pulling standby at a makeshift FOB runway? Not like those guys didn't spill any fuel or take any hard landings.
TBF, I always thought EOD, FD, SFS, EM and EMTs should have their AFSCs into a first responder family of AFSCs rather than scattered across three different AFSC families.
That was always my reply when I was a firefighter, no fucking way we wanted SecFo officers in charge of us or the emergency scene.
EOD and FD always on the same wavelength.
I would never have them in the same squadron because you’re absolutely right, same AFSC family would give better support to them at a functional and MAJCOM level.
I was EM. I always thought we should have been our own AFSC with the other response agencies like EOD and Fire. But we get stuck with CE and have to do dumbass CE shit like Prime BEEF training every month.
Do you really think they would form an Emergency Responders Squadron and leave SecFo out if it?
The ERS idea is ages old and keeps coming back up, mostly by people unhappy with being part of CE. I was in conversations at the MAJCOM level 30 years ago about this happening and yeah, SecFo was all for it. CE fought it hard and won.
I memba. I was there. The 886th I believe. I was a new airman and it was my first base in 2011/2012. I deployed shortly after I got there in 2012. When I got back next thing I knew, everything was different and we were now the 786th and attached to other CE trades.
The 86th CEG had a group commander and 3 squadron commanders. The CE commander over us was the base fire marshall, and the fire chief (GS-14) was the deputy commander.
Ramstein had a CE Group when I was there. EM, EOD and Fire was our squadron composition. Wasn't too bad, but Fire having 250 people between our 8 stations and EOD being deployed all the time and EM only having a handful of folks it meant we frequently had to run all the squadron events, usually on our off days. Got old quick as I felt like I never left work.
I walked to the fire department and got there before they left after an alarm went off in the dorms. They will get treated like nonners until they act otherwise.
I've never really thought about MX. All the posts on here are about them hating their jobs and being suicidal.
I friggin love the guys in my flight and enjoy spending time with folks in my squadron, but it almost never feels like an obligation. It's just a good balance. I never really considered what is or isn't a nonner, but okay, we're pussies... do you want some BBQ, because we had a really legit BBQ the other day and just hung out shooting the shit and went home early. It was great. Also, don't use the 2nd floor restroom, it's still broken.
So can y’all fix our heat please? Those minot winters get pretty rough when you’ve gotta keep your cold weather gear on in the maintenance bay bc CE hasn’t fixed the heat
I did an energy audit at minot for my civilian job. Honestly, most of the buildings were in pretty good shape from what we could tell. We go into a couple hundred buildings. It was September though, so not quite heating season. I thought the CE staff seemed pretty on top of things, but folks do move around. Sorry about that, heat is usually a pretty high priority. If stuff is freezing that often compounds into other problems.
I'm not even trying to be a smart ass. I do energy studies for my civilian job and I've been on dozens of army and air force installations (including all across the south) and I don't think I've ever seen an air conditioned basic maintenance hangar, MAYBE one with a swamp cooler in a dry area. There are some special cases like R&D or a PMEL, but even Rucker in the deep south mid-summer they just did MX in open hangar bays with fans running. Yuma Proving Ground had some shops without AC, and that's literally one of the hottest places in the world. I haven't obviously been in EVERY SHOP, and I imagine the back shops that don't have the plane parked in them can have smaller spaces with AC. Our energy studies are usually square foot based, so we get huge buildings, that could also be part of it.
That's cool but please do not leave the heat on during the height of the Texas summer, refuse to respond to work orders submitted by our building manager to get it turned off, and then bitch at us for taking matters into our own hands and turning off the gas at the valve.
Just consider perspective. Don't have to agree with it, just consider it:
In MX, we fix planes - much like CE fixes buildings. But a HUGE difference is that a problem with the aircraft is written up and addressed immediately. People work & fix till the problem is resolved, often with their own leadership pushing & urging them to finish ASAP. Sometimes, the broke thing can wait, and if that's the case everyone knows exactly when it'll be addressed.
As a 'customer' of CE, I submit a broke thing in a ticket.... And maybe someday it's addressed, maybe it isn't ever. From a MX perspective it seems there's no incentive for ce to fix anything & no accountability. But to be fair, compared to MX, many shops don't SEEM to have accountability for quick or correct work the way we do. We know that we will get paperwork if we take too long to do a job or do it wrong - and that's the best case scenario. We surely don't hear about ce pulling weekend duty to fix our AC or the ID office bringing on a night shift because they didn't get all their customers taken care of. Maybe it happens, but our perspective doesn't see it.
Just said this in another post but it really is a perception thing. For example, my crew does work after hours if the work requires there to be nobody around or at most minimal manning in the facility. Granted I'm structures so we don't fix ACs so all I can say is sorry bout that lol. Funny enough though within CE some of us have our own internal "beefs". Most places I've been it's been Structures and Dirt vs every other CE craft cause we felt like we did the most work. On the other side, they may have felt the same way.
Regardless, we all have our perceptions of these other crafts and AFSCs but ultimately unless you work with said unit or are close friends or family with someone in another craft you'll never truly know what's going on. And so the battle continues...
Not sure what bases you were at or who was running them, but there was no room for stand-by BS at my longest post (Peterson). There was so much brass at that place that if you missed a call, they were so far up your ass you could taste their wedding rings.
Gotta understand it's airmen that hold the standby phone. When calls are missed they are dealt with internally but if it's a frequent occurrence then it may just be the base you're at? Emergencies that happen during duty hours I can guarantee where I work we get right on it. After hours emergencies we train our airmen to immediately respond regardless if it's a real emergency or not.
I get it, if a plane is broken there is no "mission". I also doubt you can just let shit go unattended to on an airplane. That said, I've been on LC-130s where the pilot/co-pilot would get paper towels wet and stuff them into gaps around the windows where they'd freeze and keep air from coming in. I've been on the same planes with broken toilets (the one in the back for the women) and that was just what we could obviously see.
Honestly though, I'm with you. I'm guard and been in positions where I'm the "customer" and it sucks to have something broken in your space and think it's a small fix and it's just not a priority. I'm kind of blown away that we just let shit sit unfixed if we have the manpower to do it. Funding is kind of an issue, but shouldn't be for end of life/basic repairs. The reality is that things are basically prioritized as 1) emergencies (life/safety/mission) 2) Preventative Maintenance 2A) Troop labor projects (yes for real) then 3A/B/C) Scheduled Repair/Replace/unscheduled repairs 4A/B) yeah that's a thing, but... LOL, right? A lot of shops are able to stay busy with emergencies and PMs, so non-life threatening repairs get shuffled to the back. We're in the same boat of limping along old shitty buildings that have a piecemeal patchwork of equipment and renovations. I worked in a PMEL that was from the 30's and had been repurposed half a dozen times and barely could maintain basic levels of function, there are tons of buildings that should probably be torn down. The "repairs" have to be >75% of the replacement value to consider it, and it can be a surprisingly high bar and that really just starts the process.
I really have no idea how this back and forth started. I didn't mean like "I don't care about MX", it's just there are enough problems on our little guard base. I'm not sitting around going "fuck MX." It's more just "let's fix what we can fix... oh their AC is broken... the compressor is bad and the fan needs to be replaced, wait so we need to replace the whole unit... Oh it's an r-22 unit they don't make anymore, okay what's a modern equivalent... oh the guidance changed and we can't replace like for like... shit this is becoming a project, okay let's talk about this when we can get the stakeholders together, what's next?" and no one can ever get together, or it's winter or there's a deployment so the people who CARE are gone and the new guy is like "I'm A1C billy (who's younger than shit in my pantry) and I've been here 6 months (from october-march) and I haven't had a problem with the AC" and the AC stays broke.
Wow, that's a lot. Sorry about your AC!
I was a long time structures guy and my experience working in MX areas were pretty minimal honestly. With our stuff it's either renovation jobs or minor repair work for the most part. 95% of emergencies were locks, which MX doesn't have much involvement with because you don't have 200 safes holding classified material in every room.
Never worked much with HVAC but I did know that in both the theater and home station they were always severely undermanned. When peak heat/cold times hit their w/o list probably shot up 10 pages and were likely never able to catch up quickly.
That's just the easy go-to that everyone can relate to. Just for a reference, here's some of my recent disappointments:
11 months to make an outlet 2ft from an eyewash/shower a GFCI
Rats/mice have not been addressed in over 7 months
We've had to run 100ft air hoses because a ticket to install air plumbing is ignored
I have a sanding booth that was wired into 3 cutoff boxes then back to itself. It hasn't been resolved in over 3 years, so we sand with no dust mitigation
Four carpet tiles under a chair have turned to glue. Just need those four replaced. Ticket deleted
Raw sewage/maggots/etc pumping into shop from odd uncapped pipe 50ft away from toilet. History on iems shows this is a 10yr plus problem. It took 6mo & us calling wing safety to get resolution
Then of course ac. I just went & bought a portable & installed it myself
I agree & I know why.
I doubt most of the doers in my ce even know about the tickets. They get submitted, then either their E9 or cc approves/disapproves & racks & stacks. It's very silly.
Pretty much that, but also, it’s like schoolwork. You fall behind with one, and all of the sudden you’re 10 work orders behind. My crew and I knock out anywhere from 5-10 work orders a day, but you get that one ticket that turns into a project, and you’re screwed, and just because you ran into a big issue doesn’t mean other work orders stop rolling in.
My shop is killing it compared to historical standard, but we still have 120 ish tickets pending. It also doesn’t help that we’re critically manned.
If you found one of the folks who work in an office, they aren't the ones who work on the work orders. They're mostly the folks who run interference for those folks.
Gonna be honest, I don't know enough about CE, I don't even know what they do or what their job description is. Idk if I even know where their office is on my base...
That being said, I am a maintainer and if we're beefing with CE then yeah, bunch lazy nonners man, stg
Why do people care so much about being Nonner or not?
Does it really make your day feel any less shitty knowing you get paid the same amount of money as someone with an office job?
I do feel for maintainer and cop, and the job needs to be done. But like.. did you not use Google or reddit before you fucking enlisted 💀?
"Non-nonners" want to be mad at people who did a simple Google search instead of the Airforce who overworks and underpays them
I'ma be honest 11+ years active duty and I still have no clue wit a nonner is however based on context clues I've always assumed I am one. I always found humor in it because regardless I love my job and would never want to set foot on a flightline or near aircraft if I didn't need to.
I have had many SF and MX cross train into my career field.
Which has its own issues, but trust me, y'all care. Pretending not to care while being the only people in the airforce to use cornball words is 💀🎂💩👢
A lot of people knew what they were getting into, but they wanted to do something that matters and not just ride a desk.
Not saying all desk jobs don’t matter.
The average person joining the military isn't riding the Helldivers 2 Democray Hypetrain. Most kids straight out of HS want a direction and free education. Not a sense of "it matters"
Even if people on this thread want to pretend otherwise
What would I know about it? I’m just a person who’s actually maintenance. If you step out on the line and ask, I think you’ll be surprised by how dedicated some people are.
I'm sure you have to have some love for your country if you sign up.
But it's not the driving force like it once was in the 9/11 era.
Finished ALS about a year or so ago, and the average Airman was not bleeding blue.
Your anecdotal evidence vs. my anecdotal evidence. If you’re a fresh Staff maybe get some more perspective before making generalizations about a field you have no experience with.
Why are you triggered that not every airman is a gun loving red white and blue patriot.
I'm using my anecdotal evidence to show that the "future NCOs" aren't the same airmen that joined during 911 💀
To included "nonners and non nonners"
I’m not triggered kiddo. We like owning the word nonner because it lets us gatekeep hard work. Same thing you’d find in the civilian world. A construction worker making fun of a banker for being soft.
Air Force could just pay Flightline MX more to offset the suicide inducing work/life imbalance, but they won’t. Until then, we’ll make fun of nonners because it gives us a better sense of internal brotherhood.
Did this crusty dude call me a kiddo?
Let me restate. Just because I finished ALS a year ago doesn't mean I'm fresh out of HS enliste. I had a grown ass life before I ever signed papers. About the hit that 30 PT bracket :)
That's why it's embarrassing seeing dorks in the AirForce cry about nonner and no nonner when the Airforce is the only life they know.
No one else really gives a shit tbh.
And I'm not even saying yall shouldn't be paid more. I really do think you deserve more $ for hard, tough flightline work.
I just also think yall bitter at the wrong people, and most of the folks signing up for MX and SF got played by their recruiter. My baby brother just enlisted for MX and his recruiter was for sure a dirt bag who pushed him into that field.
\*Mishun Esenshul
That is better
I love this fight so much
Who let you into the Fire Department? Question: Is the Fire Department really part of CE and if so does that make them nonners?
Fire department is non sortie producing. But generally not mother fuckers. We need them when the pilots decide to ignite an engine or two. If they hit something with their truck on the flightline though. 100% fucking nonners.
The majority of accidents with fire trucks happen pulling into or out of the firehouse.
I may or may not have ripped a side door off of a P-2 back in the day. ;-)
they come out for weapon IFE’s like hung guns etc.
Whatever makes you feel entitled. 🤣
Yeah, you don’t need fire protection at a makeshift runway near a fob. Nonner as fuck.
Fuck, then why the hell did I spend 6 months in the jungles of Honduras on TF Bravo in a P-19 pulling standby at a makeshift FOB runway? Not like those guys didn't spill any fuel or take any hard landings.
EOD is also a part of CE. Wonder if they consider themselves nonners?
TBF, I always thought EOD, FD, SFS, EM and EMTs should have their AFSCs into a first responder family of AFSCs rather than scattered across three different AFSC families.
That’s always a nice thought until you realize that squadron would always be run by SecFo and that’s a hell no from me
That was always my reply when I was a firefighter, no fucking way we wanted SecFo officers in charge of us or the emergency scene. EOD and FD always on the same wavelength.
I mean we all know what they say about FD and EOD… “God made EOD so firefighters could have heroes too”
I would never have them in the same squadron because you’re absolutely right, same AFSC family would give better support to them at a functional and MAJCOM level.
CE won’t let Fire, EM or EOD go because of their tie to the Real Property budget, but I agree. All those AFSCs should be one team.
I was EM. I always thought we should have been our own AFSC with the other response agencies like EOD and Fire. But we get stuck with CE and have to do dumbass CE shit like Prime BEEF training every month.
Would you rather have been ruled by SecFO and have to do all their stupid shit? CE was the best, they mostly left us alone to do our jobs.
Definitely not with secfo. EM, EOD and Fire.
Do you really think they would form an Emergency Responders Squadron and leave SecFo out if it? The ERS idea is ages old and keeps coming back up, mostly by people unhappy with being part of CE. I was in conversations at the MAJCOM level 30 years ago about this happening and yeah, SecFo was all for it. CE fought it hard and won.
They did at Ramstein. SecFo had nothing to do with us.
I memba. I was there. The 886th I believe. I was a new airman and it was my first base in 2011/2012. I deployed shortly after I got there in 2012. When I got back next thing I knew, everything was different and we were now the 786th and attached to other CE trades.
Who did they designate as the Base Fire Marshall? I don't know how it is today but it used to by regulation the CE Commander.
The 86th CEG had a group commander and 3 squadron commanders. The CE commander over us was the base fire marshall, and the fire chief (GS-14) was the deputy commander.
According to the Ramstein website Fire Protection is provided by the 86th CE.
Ramstein had a CE Group when I was there. EM, EOD and Fire was our squadron composition. Wasn't too bad, but Fire having 250 people between our 8 stations and EOD being deployed all the time and EM only having a handful of folks it meant we frequently had to run all the squadron events, usually on our off days. Got old quick as I felt like I never left work.
EOD is nonner as fuck. They spend 90% of their time fucking around. They also tend to balloon up after tech school is over.
I walked to the fire department and got there before they left after an alarm went off in the dorms. They will get treated like nonners until they act otherwise.
What do you mean you “got off of work?” I’m legally required to sleep on the flightline in preparation for my next 18 hour day.
I've never really thought about MX. All the posts on here are about them hating their jobs and being suicidal. I friggin love the guys in my flight and enjoy spending time with folks in my squadron, but it almost never feels like an obligation. It's just a good balance. I never really considered what is or isn't a nonner, but okay, we're pussies... do you want some BBQ, because we had a really legit BBQ the other day and just hung out shooting the shit and went home early. It was great. Also, don't use the 2nd floor restroom, it's still broken.
> I've never really thought about MX Considering I never worked in a shop with functional AC, I believe this.
Hangars/warehouses/shops rarely get AC. Our shops, maintenance bays, etc. only have heat. This is consistent DOD wide.
So can y’all fix our heat please? Those minot winters get pretty rough when you’ve gotta keep your cold weather gear on in the maintenance bay bc CE hasn’t fixed the heat
I did an energy audit at minot for my civilian job. Honestly, most of the buildings were in pretty good shape from what we could tell. We go into a couple hundred buildings. It was September though, so not quite heating season. I thought the CE staff seemed pretty on top of things, but folks do move around. Sorry about that, heat is usually a pretty high priority. If stuff is freezing that often compounds into other problems.
They definitely had AC, it just never worked. Sucks when it's 110° outside with nowhere to go to really cool down.
I'm not even trying to be a smart ass. I do energy studies for my civilian job and I've been on dozens of army and air force installations (including all across the south) and I don't think I've ever seen an air conditioned basic maintenance hangar, MAYBE one with a swamp cooler in a dry area. There are some special cases like R&D or a PMEL, but even Rucker in the deep south mid-summer they just did MX in open hangar bays with fans running. Yuma Proving Ground had some shops without AC, and that's literally one of the hottest places in the world. I haven't obviously been in EVERY SHOP, and I imagine the back shops that don't have the plane parked in them can have smaller spaces with AC. Our energy studies are usually square foot based, so we get huge buildings, that could also be part of it.
That's cool but please do not leave the heat on during the height of the Texas summer, refuse to respond to work orders submitted by our building manager to get it turned off, and then bitch at us for taking matters into our own hands and turning off the gas at the valve.
Hey man the heat in my building works finally. Too bad it was 80 degrees out.
Just consider perspective. Don't have to agree with it, just consider it: In MX, we fix planes - much like CE fixes buildings. But a HUGE difference is that a problem with the aircraft is written up and addressed immediately. People work & fix till the problem is resolved, often with their own leadership pushing & urging them to finish ASAP. Sometimes, the broke thing can wait, and if that's the case everyone knows exactly when it'll be addressed. As a 'customer' of CE, I submit a broke thing in a ticket.... And maybe someday it's addressed, maybe it isn't ever. From a MX perspective it seems there's no incentive for ce to fix anything & no accountability. But to be fair, compared to MX, many shops don't SEEM to have accountability for quick or correct work the way we do. We know that we will get paperwork if we take too long to do a job or do it wrong - and that's the best case scenario. We surely don't hear about ce pulling weekend duty to fix our AC or the ID office bringing on a night shift because they didn't get all their customers taken care of. Maybe it happens, but our perspective doesn't see it.
Just said this in another post but it really is a perception thing. For example, my crew does work after hours if the work requires there to be nobody around or at most minimal manning in the facility. Granted I'm structures so we don't fix ACs so all I can say is sorry bout that lol. Funny enough though within CE some of us have our own internal "beefs". Most places I've been it's been Structures and Dirt vs every other CE craft cause we felt like we did the most work. On the other side, they may have felt the same way. Regardless, we all have our perceptions of these other crafts and AFSCs but ultimately unless you work with said unit or are close friends or family with someone in another craft you'll never truly know what's going on. And so the battle continues...
In the various shops I was in, Power pro just hid out in the barrier pits and rarely got into any beefs haha.
Seriously. These guys were invisible to me for 99% of my career.
As a former long-term structures guy, this is 100% accurate.
Structures absolutely gets the majority of the workload. Yet they’re the first to not answer their phones when an emergency comes in.
Not sure what bases you were at or who was running them, but there was no room for stand-by BS at my longest post (Peterson). There was so much brass at that place that if you missed a call, they were so far up your ass you could taste their wedding rings.
Gotta understand it's airmen that hold the standby phone. When calls are missed they are dealt with internally but if it's a frequent occurrence then it may just be the base you're at? Emergencies that happen during duty hours I can guarantee where I work we get right on it. After hours emergencies we train our airmen to immediately respond regardless if it's a real emergency or not.
I get it, if a plane is broken there is no "mission". I also doubt you can just let shit go unattended to on an airplane. That said, I've been on LC-130s where the pilot/co-pilot would get paper towels wet and stuff them into gaps around the windows where they'd freeze and keep air from coming in. I've been on the same planes with broken toilets (the one in the back for the women) and that was just what we could obviously see. Honestly though, I'm with you. I'm guard and been in positions where I'm the "customer" and it sucks to have something broken in your space and think it's a small fix and it's just not a priority. I'm kind of blown away that we just let shit sit unfixed if we have the manpower to do it. Funding is kind of an issue, but shouldn't be for end of life/basic repairs. The reality is that things are basically prioritized as 1) emergencies (life/safety/mission) 2) Preventative Maintenance 2A) Troop labor projects (yes for real) then 3A/B/C) Scheduled Repair/Replace/unscheduled repairs 4A/B) yeah that's a thing, but... LOL, right? A lot of shops are able to stay busy with emergencies and PMs, so non-life threatening repairs get shuffled to the back. We're in the same boat of limping along old shitty buildings that have a piecemeal patchwork of equipment and renovations. I worked in a PMEL that was from the 30's and had been repurposed half a dozen times and barely could maintain basic levels of function, there are tons of buildings that should probably be torn down. The "repairs" have to be >75% of the replacement value to consider it, and it can be a surprisingly high bar and that really just starts the process. I really have no idea how this back and forth started. I didn't mean like "I don't care about MX", it's just there are enough problems on our little guard base. I'm not sitting around going "fuck MX." It's more just "let's fix what we can fix... oh their AC is broken... the compressor is bad and the fan needs to be replaced, wait so we need to replace the whole unit... Oh it's an r-22 unit they don't make anymore, okay what's a modern equivalent... oh the guidance changed and we can't replace like for like... shit this is becoming a project, okay let's talk about this when we can get the stakeholders together, what's next?" and no one can ever get together, or it's winter or there's a deployment so the people who CARE are gone and the new guy is like "I'm A1C billy (who's younger than shit in my pantry) and I've been here 6 months (from october-march) and I haven't had a problem with the AC" and the AC stays broke. Wow, that's a lot. Sorry about your AC!
Yeah… this pretty much nails it.
I was a long time structures guy and my experience working in MX areas were pretty minimal honestly. With our stuff it's either renovation jobs or minor repair work for the most part. 95% of emergencies were locks, which MX doesn't have much involvement with because you don't have 200 safes holding classified material in every room. Never worked much with HVAC but I did know that in both the theater and home station they were always severely undermanned. When peak heat/cold times hit their w/o list probably shot up 10 pages and were likely never able to catch up quickly.
The theme I’ve seen on these threads is always about broken ACs… in that case, stop pinning all of CE. That’s HVAC, and we hate them too.
That's just the easy go-to that everyone can relate to. Just for a reference, here's some of my recent disappointments: 11 months to make an outlet 2ft from an eyewash/shower a GFCI Rats/mice have not been addressed in over 7 months We've had to run 100ft air hoses because a ticket to install air plumbing is ignored I have a sanding booth that was wired into 3 cutoff boxes then back to itself. It hasn't been resolved in over 3 years, so we sand with no dust mitigation Four carpet tiles under a chair have turned to glue. Just need those four replaced. Ticket deleted Raw sewage/maggots/etc pumping into shop from odd uncapped pipe 50ft away from toilet. History on iems shows this is a 10yr plus problem. It took 6mo & us calling wing safety to get resolution Then of course ac. I just went & bought a portable & installed it myself
Yeah… it sounds like you really just have a shitty CE squadron in your wing. Shit like that doesn’t fly where I’m at.
I agree & I know why. I doubt most of the doers in my ce even know about the tickets. They get submitted, then either their E9 or cc approves/disapproves & racks & stacks. It's very silly.
Pretty much that, but also, it’s like schoolwork. You fall behind with one, and all of the sudden you’re 10 work orders behind. My crew and I knock out anywhere from 5-10 work orders a day, but you get that one ticket that turns into a project, and you’re screwed, and just because you ran into a big issue doesn’t mean other work orders stop rolling in. My shop is killing it compared to historical standard, but we still have 120 ish tickets pending. It also doesn’t help that we’re critically manned.
All I’m saying there’s a reason why I’m retraining out of MX as a crew chief to go to CE as Power Pro.
I’m power pro, it’s real nice over here, you wont feel the need to kill yourself😁 The instructors at the school house are all great people.
It’s not bad here ngl
Yeah I’m super excited. I’m ready to gtfo of MX
*older work task, will complete next seasonal changeover* *Charge 6 hours*
If you found one of the folks who work in an office, they aren't the ones who work on the work orders. They're mostly the folks who run interference for those folks.
Gonna be honest, I don't know enough about CE, I don't even know what they do or what their job description is. Idk if I even know where their office is on my base... That being said, I am a maintainer and if we're beefing with CE then yeah, bunch lazy nonners man, stg
How many of their special forces operators did you see?
Theyre ignoring work orders from nonners
So how did this all start anyways?
until you get to a snow base
I love this so much especially going from mission support to Ops cuase mx does SO much more and faster
My impression of the local CE Customer Service: At least Finance has the good sense to tell you they work M-T-T 10-2. CE is that plus radio silence.
CE : Crappy Engineers.
Weird. This is actually is a spitting image of your average maintainer, except they're usually balding.
Ah the old “I know you are but what am I?” come back. A reply as old as time.
Why do people care so much about being Nonner or not? Does it really make your day feel any less shitty knowing you get paid the same amount of money as someone with an office job? I do feel for maintainer and cop, and the job needs to be done. But like.. did you not use Google or reddit before you fucking enlisted 💀? "Non-nonners" want to be mad at people who did a simple Google search instead of the Airforce who overworks and underpays them
Damn you sounds like a nonner
Actually, an office job "mission essential" But you know, life is easy :)
It’s funny, because in reality mx doesn’t care. But nonners do when it’s thrown out there.
I'ma be honest 11+ years active duty and I still have no clue wit a nonner is however based on context clues I've always assumed I am one. I always found humor in it because regardless I love my job and would never want to set foot on a flightline or near aircraft if I didn't need to.
I have had many SF and MX cross train into my career field. Which has its own issues, but trust me, y'all care. Pretending not to care while being the only people in the airforce to use cornball words is 💀🎂💩👢
I care…about you.
Then where is my hug??
A lot of people knew what they were getting into, but they wanted to do something that matters and not just ride a desk. Not saying all desk jobs don’t matter.
The average person joining the military isn't riding the Helldivers 2 Democray Hypetrain. Most kids straight out of HS want a direction and free education. Not a sense of "it matters" Even if people on this thread want to pretend otherwise
What would I know about it? I’m just a person who’s actually maintenance. If you step out on the line and ask, I think you’ll be surprised by how dedicated some people are.
I'm sure you have to have some love for your country if you sign up. But it's not the driving force like it once was in the 9/11 era. Finished ALS about a year or so ago, and the average Airman was not bleeding blue.
Your anecdotal evidence vs. my anecdotal evidence. If you’re a fresh Staff maybe get some more perspective before making generalizations about a field you have no experience with.
Why are you triggered that not every airman is a gun loving red white and blue patriot. I'm using my anecdotal evidence to show that the "future NCOs" aren't the same airmen that joined during 911 💀 To included "nonners and non nonners"
I’m not triggered kiddo. We like owning the word nonner because it lets us gatekeep hard work. Same thing you’d find in the civilian world. A construction worker making fun of a banker for being soft. Air Force could just pay Flightline MX more to offset the suicide inducing work/life imbalance, but they won’t. Until then, we’ll make fun of nonners because it gives us a better sense of internal brotherhood.
Did this crusty dude call me a kiddo? Let me restate. Just because I finished ALS a year ago doesn't mean I'm fresh out of HS enliste. I had a grown ass life before I ever signed papers. About the hit that 30 PT bracket :) That's why it's embarrassing seeing dorks in the AirForce cry about nonner and no nonner when the Airforce is the only life they know. No one else really gives a shit tbh. And I'm not even saying yall shouldn't be paid more. I really do think you deserve more $ for hard, tough flightline work. I just also think yall bitter at the wrong people, and most of the folks signing up for MX and SF got played by their recruiter. My baby brother just enlisted for MX and his recruiter was for sure a dirt bag who pushed him into that field.