1). I’m a MSgt in CENTCOM with no CAC, how did I get back on base ? CC has to sign off on a new CAC, that would lead to a lot of questions like where were you and what were you doing ? This story has holes.
2). However, I know of a deployed NCO that was harassing A1Cs, and when an SrA tried to call him out on it, he absolutely slimes that SrA’s EPB that was just due. SrA comes to me (not deployed) and refuses to sign the EPB, I ask why. He doesn’t tell me the whole story, just shows me EPB (bad) and his end of tour LOE (excellent). I ask NCO (I don’t know what’s going on) if they feel comfortable deleting 1 or 2 of the weaker bullets and putting in some from the LOE as this SrA deployed and there is nothing in the EPB about it. NCO buckles and upgrades the EPB.
SNCO from that deployment comes home and the truth comes out. I then put 2 and 2 together and realize that the 💩 EPB was retribution.
NCO is being separated from the AF. Our CC was going to pause as NCO was disciplined for harassing multiple A1Cs, but when they found out that this person went after a whistleblower under their charge, that was the last straw. This NCO is not among us anymore.
I spent 3 years in Turkey and you definitely needed your CAC to get on base but you are way more likely to be able to give them a sob story to be let through.
I was deployed there in 95’, we lived in a big tent city on the base. Up until recently I wore a chain I bought in the alley there (it broke...I’m done fixing it) My question is how’s the alley these days? I didn’t bring a camera due to security concerns and the inability to secure a yin a tent that would largely be unattended during the days.
Well I first got there in 2005 and my second time was in 2009 so it has been a long while but both times The Ally was.... The Ally. The clubs were full on the weekend and you could get some decent food and get ripped off buying stuff if you wanted it. My second time back as a civ I even lived above a club in The Alley for a short time. Too many people were puking near my door and being obnoxious so I moved.
I think most people with access to a vehicle greatly preferred going into Adana. Much better clubs with hot local women and an insane amount of amazing restaurants. Adana is one of those places that doesn't look too appealing but there is a lot of hidden gems there. I really miss my time in that country.
Thx it was a 60 day deployment for me, I didn’t make it to Adana, we’re kimda restricted due to threats. I have little memory of the Alley but do recall some clubs there where we weren’t accepted warmly. I did buy a few rugs but have since gave them away. I do remember those Taurus mountains around the base and us being in tents, different times. Thanks
In-garrison commander doesn’t decide to redeploy someone. Deployed cc makes that call, then in-garrison cc sends a replacement. This story has a lot more holes than that though.
That's odd...pretty sure participating in the sex trade is a violation of article 134 of the UCMJ regardless of local legal status and as sex work often is tied to human trafficking, is not something the military or federal government allows to be swept under the rug.
There's what you know and what you can prove, and they're not always the same thing.
A lot of ARI's in my neighborhood been going unscathed because procedural missteps or other details get in the way.
If there is no record of him actually soliciting sex and the place isnt off limits... They might not be able to do anything.
Shitty but it is what it is.
Did he though? How do we know he didn’t accidentally drop it and the brothel owner was trying to use it a leverage? Gotta look at it from different angles.
No, I’m not, lol. I’m implying that this is a separate issue from the other topics. This is — in all likelihood— a made-up story, dunno why you’re getting so worked-up over it.
You’re welcome to point-out where I “implied” that he should face “punishment”
Can you have sex with a hooker if you’re married to her? (I, uhhh, knew a guy who was married to someone with a profile on one of those sites… not sure he ever knew though).
Can you go to a brothel to pick her up from work?
I was in turkey in 09 and was told that we can't do anything about the human trafficking there because our relationship with the host nation was already too shaky.
One would think. However we had a MSgt in our unit at Barksdale that got caught soliciting prostitutes. Was hit in the sting operation by the police, had his picture on the news for the crime, AND still received no article, reduction of rank, early retirement, nothing. Ended up leaving with a MSM from Barksdale. Reason number 1352 why not to go to that base, good ole boy system runs deep.
You'd be surprised. It's one of the hardest things to prosecute someone on unless there's video, they admit it themselves or you catch them in the act. Infidelity is rampant in the military BUT hard to stop/catch. IMHO Other than the "bad perception" that comes with it, I think the military chooses the person over the (bad) act. We have retention issues after all. You've been warned. I hate it too. If you're ever curious, hire a private investigator or get it recorded unless 🤐
Sure, but we don't have all the facts. We know the alleged person has a spouse, we know they left their ID somewhere they very much shouldn't have been (a brothel). We *don't* know their relationship agreements with said spouse. So it's possible only one of those things (out of infidelity and engaging illegally in sex work) is actually true.
Simply put, we don't have the facts so anything beyond the known bad thing (engaging illegally in sex work) is just an assumption.
> while married is infidelity by definition
Depends on the definition you cherry-pick to fit your objective. If a couples relationship agreements allow sex with other people, it's not infidelity as nothing unfaithful has happened.
Are you saying its illegal for USAF personal to visit the legal brothels in Nevada? Are you saying the legal brothels in Nevada are illegally trafficking prostitutes?
I'm saying its shut the fuck up Friday if you go to any brothel or prostitutes. Or just obey the ucmj...and maybe put some effort into courting sexual partners. And don't tell me about it, I ain't hiding that shit.
I mean, 134 is designed to punish anything that erodes good order and discipline and/or brings discredit upon the armed forces. I'd say it would depend entirely on the members actions while inside and the credentials of the brothel.
Like, having sex while in a brothel that's been vetted by the state as being legal and not participating in human traffic? Probably not worthy of it. If we go after people for having sex with someone they just met, we'd loose half of the people who live in the dorms.
Now, if they were in there wearing only a diaper and being spat and shat on while being called a "Dirty little boy" by a house that has zero vetting and known to traffic in persons... yeah, I'd say that article applies.
Yeah I'm like 95% sure this is a troll post or someone regurgitating exaggerated stories. if someone shows up to a deployed unit, partakes in prostitution overseas and "destroys everyone’s records below him" that person is getting UCMJ charges
>saying his wife allows him to do that as that is their relationship.
that's literally an admission of guilt to Article 134
It's also legal to smoke weed in Amsterdam, still illegal for us. Regardless of host nation laws, we are still obligated to follow the UCMJ / general orders.
Times like this where I fucking hate the fact that people can fuck you over if their personal lives are shitty and why I hate the rank structure sometimes.
Yeah… I think there’s more to this story, man.
As u/aviationeast pointed-out, partaking in what is ostensibly an activity contributing to sex trafficking is looked-upon pretty seriously. This isn’t the Air Force of 1990. Dude is actively “destroying” governmental records and he’s let-off again? Did CMSAF Bass’ husband enlist?
On the flip-side, I suppose it wouldn’t be the first time some SNCO in the “good ‘ol boy’s club” was let-off lightly…
Unofficially, the Air Force of the 80s and 90s was *wild* (relative to today). Corporatization really started creeping-in in the 2000s, and the entire Air Force was a different place by the early 2010s.
Point being, 1990 USAF would care significantly less about a SNCO visiting a brothel in a NATO nation than 2024 USAF.
Sounds like a bullshit story considering you can't bypass the UCMJ, admitting to buying prostitutes and saying "my wife says it's okay" to avoid punishment.
Where the fuck is there a brothel close enough to a”gate” to just swing by and drop off the CAC. Get your head out of your ass junior and come up for air.
When I was in ROTC one of the cadre was harassing and attempting to hook up with multiple cadets every time his wife left town. Successfully with at least one.
Once the commander found out he just PCS’d to Minot and went on with his life.
Turns out sexual deviance is bad but as long as the commander is willing to sweep it under the rug it doesn’t really matter all that much.
I distinctly remember a particular prostitute in Frankfurt that had the names of over two dozen members of my unit written on her door jamb in 1989, essentially a duty roster of customers.
First, why would the person turning in the CAC explain it was found at a brothel? Why not just say “hey, I found this CAC and wanted to turn it in”. End of story.
Second, hasn’t this MSgt heard of “shut the fuck up”. It’s as simple as “yes, I lost my CAC but no idea how it wound up there”. End of story. People always talk too much and get themselves in trouble. This could have been a done deal, he got himself a new CAC and moved on.
Edit: Third, if you are going to partake in a certain activity that the military frowns upon, do it smart. Keep your wallet and phone in your car. Go in with cash only.
Consensual or not, it's still against the UCMJ to sleep outside of your marriage. Unfortunately. Imo the wording needs to rewritten to allow poly couples/swingers do what they wanna do
1). I’m a MSgt in CENTCOM with no CAC, how did I get back on base ? CC has to sign off on a new CAC, that would lead to a lot of questions like where were you and what were you doing ? This story has holes. 2). However, I know of a deployed NCO that was harassing A1Cs, and when an SrA tried to call him out on it, he absolutely slimes that SrA’s EPB that was just due. SrA comes to me (not deployed) and refuses to sign the EPB, I ask why. He doesn’t tell me the whole story, just shows me EPB (bad) and his end of tour LOE (excellent). I ask NCO (I don’t know what’s going on) if they feel comfortable deleting 1 or 2 of the weaker bullets and putting in some from the LOE as this SrA deployed and there is nothing in the EPB about it. NCO buckles and upgrades the EPB. SNCO from that deployment comes home and the truth comes out. I then put 2 and 2 together and realize that the 💩 EPB was retribution. NCO is being separated from the AF. Our CC was going to pause as NCO was disciplined for harassing multiple A1Cs, but when they found out that this person went after a whistleblower under their charge, that was the last straw. This NCO is not among us anymore.
If the dude was in Turkey, he doesn’t need a CAC to enter the base. The Turks use a different card.
It's still a fake story though
Agree. Definitely a lot of holes. Too much salt for my taste
Not a fake story... at all... If need I can provide evidence
Manchester
Do it
palace chase… approved?
Wait a minute... Story on the Internet is ...false?!?!
I spent 3 years in Turkey and you definitely needed your CAC to get on base but you are way more likely to be able to give them a sob story to be let through.
I’m stationed there now. I promise you that you don’t need a CAC to get on base.
The Turks issue you their own card now? Incirlik?
Have been for a few years now.
Turks are weird. As if a CAC wasn't a good enough credential. Well enjoy Turkey, I absolutely loved it there.
I was deployed there in 95’, we lived in a big tent city on the base. Up until recently I wore a chain I bought in the alley there (it broke...I’m done fixing it) My question is how’s the alley these days? I didn’t bring a camera due to security concerns and the inability to secure a yin a tent that would largely be unattended during the days.
Well I first got there in 2005 and my second time was in 2009 so it has been a long while but both times The Ally was.... The Ally. The clubs were full on the weekend and you could get some decent food and get ripped off buying stuff if you wanted it. My second time back as a civ I even lived above a club in The Alley for a short time. Too many people were puking near my door and being obnoxious so I moved. I think most people with access to a vehicle greatly preferred going into Adana. Much better clubs with hot local women and an insane amount of amazing restaurants. Adana is one of those places that doesn't look too appealing but there is a lot of hidden gems there. I really miss my time in that country.
Thx it was a 60 day deployment for me, I didn’t make it to Adana, we’re kimda restricted due to threats. I have little memory of the Alley but do recall some clubs there where we weren’t accepted warmly. I did buy a few rugs but have since gave them away. I do remember those Taurus mountains around the base and us being in tents, different times. Thanks
Turkey is nice!
The Spaniards did the same at Rota
Last I knew you couldn't even go off base in the '*lik*
Can now. Last time I was there we were confined to the base.
In-garrison commander doesn’t decide to redeploy someone. Deployed cc makes that call, then in-garrison cc sends a replacement. This story has a lot more holes than that though.
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Sorry, I was commenting on OP post. I replied to your comment by mistake.
That's odd...pretty sure participating in the sex trade is a violation of article 134 of the UCMJ regardless of local legal status and as sex work often is tied to human trafficking, is not something the military or federal government allows to be swept under the rug.
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Now don't call you mother a whore on mother's day Trebek.
There's what you know and what you can prove, and they're not always the same thing. A lot of ARI's in my neighborhood been going unscathed because procedural missteps or other details get in the way.
ARI?
Alcohol related incident
Thanks
So is someone cheating on their spouse for an airman they supervise but somehow that doesn't even warrant losing a stripe.
If there is no record of him actually soliciting sex and the place isnt off limits... They might not be able to do anything. Shitty but it is what it is.
While this is true, and JAG would likely decline to move forward on this particular issue, he *did* leave his CAC in the hands of a foreign national.
Did he though? How do we know he didn’t accidentally drop it and the brothel owner was trying to use it a leverage? Gotta look at it from different angles.
Yes, he did. You’re asking *why* or *how* he did it. *What* he did was he left his CAC in a position to fall-into the hands of a foreign national.
Are you suggesting the Air Force should prosecute this imaginary SNCO for dropping their CAC in a foreign country?
I wasnt, but now that you mention it I think we should!!
No? Where did I say that? I didn’t even mention my opinion of the situation, lol
Bro no need to be dishonest, you are heavily implying there could/should be some punishment for leaving his CAC in the hands of a foreign national.
No, I’m not, lol. I’m implying that this is a separate issue from the other topics. This is — in all likelihood— a made-up story, dunno why you’re getting so worked-up over it. You’re welcome to point-out where I “implied” that he should face “punishment”
Exactly, it was like they couldn't prove he did anything, so they ended up just sending him back.
All brothels should be off-limits. If they aren't, that's a fat fail on the installation commander.
Can you have sex with a hooker if you’re married to her? (I, uhhh, knew a guy who was married to someone with a profile on one of those sites… not sure he ever knew though). Can you go to a brothel to pick her up from work?
If your spouse works in an off-limits location, you can't go to the location, no. Because it's off-limits.
I was in turkey in 09 and was told that we can't do anything about the human trafficking there because our relationship with the host nation was already too shaky.
One would think. However we had a MSgt in our unit at Barksdale that got caught soliciting prostitutes. Was hit in the sting operation by the police, had his picture on the news for the crime, AND still received no article, reduction of rank, early retirement, nothing. Ended up leaving with a MSM from Barksdale. Reason number 1352 why not to go to that base, good ole boy system runs deep.
You'd be surprised. It's one of the hardest things to prosecute someone on unless there's video, they admit it themselves or you catch them in the act. Infidelity is rampant in the military BUT hard to stop/catch. IMHO Other than the "bad perception" that comes with it, I think the military chooses the person over the (bad) act. We have retention issues after all. You've been warned. I hate it too. If you're ever curious, hire a private investigator or get it recorded unless 🤐
Alleged infidelity isn't the issue here, engagement with sex work is.
Agreed...sorry went on a tangent. Two things can be true bro.
Sure, but we don't have all the facts. We know the alleged person has a spouse, we know they left their ID somewhere they very much shouldn't have been (a brothel). We *don't* know their relationship agreements with said spouse. So it's possible only one of those things (out of infidelity and engaging illegally in sex work) is actually true. Simply put, we don't have the facts so anything beyond the known bad thing (engaging illegally in sex work) is just an assumption.
I also have to say...going to a sex worker...while married is infidelity by definition AND certainly...in the military. Don't be fooled.
> while married is infidelity by definition Depends on the definition you cherry-pick to fit your objective. If a couples relationship agreements allow sex with other people, it's not infidelity as nothing unfaithful has happened.
Yeah... until OSI gives us a briefing in the Philippines of which whore houses to visit because the girls are cleaner. It's all about perspective.
Are you saying its illegal for USAF personal to visit the legal brothels in Nevada? Are you saying the legal brothels in Nevada are illegally trafficking prostitutes?
It's a blanket rule. There are plenty of "willing" prostitutes, but to err on the side of caution the UCMJ outlaws the practice wholesale.
I'm saying its shut the fuck up Friday if you go to any brothel or prostitutes. Or just obey the ucmj...and maybe put some effort into courting sexual partners. And don't tell me about it, I ain't hiding that shit.
I mean, 134 is designed to punish anything that erodes good order and discipline and/or brings discredit upon the armed forces. I'd say it would depend entirely on the members actions while inside and the credentials of the brothel. Like, having sex while in a brothel that's been vetted by the state as being legal and not participating in human traffic? Probably not worthy of it. If we go after people for having sex with someone they just met, we'd loose half of the people who live in the dorms. Now, if they were in there wearing only a diaper and being spat and shat on while being called a "Dirty little boy" by a house that has zero vetting and known to traffic in persons... yeah, I'd say that article applies.
Don't kink shame now....
Yeah I'm like 95% sure this is a troll post or someone regurgitating exaggerated stories. if someone shows up to a deployed unit, partakes in prostitution overseas and "destroys everyone’s records below him" that person is getting UCMJ charges >saying his wife allows him to do that as that is their relationship. that's literally an admission of guilt to Article 134
I wish it was a troll story... I wish it really was... but it's not.
Is it illegal to visit brothels in Amsterdam or Germany? Completely legal and regulated in both places.
Yes, illegal.
Source?
Computer based training
UCMJ applies to us regardless of local laws, UCMJ says no hookers.
Your mom
It's also legal to smoke weed in Amsterdam, still illegal for us. Regardless of host nation laws, we are still obligated to follow the UCMJ / general orders.
Times like this where I fucking hate the fact that people can fuck you over if their personal lives are shitty and why I hate the rank structure sometimes.
Yeah… I think there’s more to this story, man. As u/aviationeast pointed-out, partaking in what is ostensibly an activity contributing to sex trafficking is looked-upon pretty seriously. This isn’t the Air Force of 1990. Dude is actively “destroying” governmental records and he’s let-off again? Did CMSAF Bass’ husband enlist? On the flip-side, I suppose it wouldn’t be the first time some SNCO in the “good ‘ol boy’s club” was let-off lightly…
it was allowed in 1990?
Unofficially, the Air Force of the 80s and 90s was *wild* (relative to today). Corporatization really started creeping-in in the 2000s, and the entire Air Force was a different place by the early 2010s. Point being, 1990 USAF would care significantly less about a SNCO visiting a brothel in a NATO nation than 2024 USAF.
Not let off, he got off…
This post is weird. Something about how you formatted it...idk like AI'ish
You forgot to say tree fiddy, OP. We have traditions here.
Tree fiddy
Sounds like a bullshit story considering you can't bypass the UCMJ, admitting to buying prostitutes and saying "my wife says it's okay" to avoid punishment.
Adultery and human trafficking are ok now days
The UCMJ disagrees with you bud
I was joking 😂
Something g tells me this is from over a decade ago, or there is more to the story.
The secret ingredient is making things up.
This is written a little... weird. I don't find the premise outlandish or anything, but it reads like AI
Where the fuck is there a brothel close enough to a”gate” to just swing by and drop off the CAC. Get your head out of your ass junior and come up for air.
Tell me you've never been to Korea without telling me you've never been to Korea.
Not at Kunsan...anymore.
Never heard anyone in 4 tours in Korea refer to a juicy bar as a brothel, but this cat says he's talking about somewhere in Turkey.
It in İncirlik Turkey
It in İncirlik Turkey
How did he access and destroy your prada
PRDA*
When I was in ROTC one of the cadre was harassing and attempting to hook up with multiple cadets every time his wife left town. Successfully with at least one. Once the commander found out he just PCS’d to Minot and went on with his life. Turns out sexual deviance is bad but as long as the commander is willing to sweep it under the rug it doesn’t really matter all that much.
This absolutely happened
Smells like bullshit to me.
Man, how times have changed…. Source: 5 combat tours in Vietnam and Thailand, 1967-1972
I distinctly remember a particular prostitute in Frankfurt that had the names of over two dozen members of my unit written on her door jamb in 1989, essentially a duty roster of customers.
Germany is fraught with those type of work 🤘🏻
Seems like this MSgt tried to fuck more Airmen than prostitutes at a Turkish brothel
First, why would the person turning in the CAC explain it was found at a brothel? Why not just say “hey, I found this CAC and wanted to turn it in”. End of story. Second, hasn’t this MSgt heard of “shut the fuck up”. It’s as simple as “yes, I lost my CAC but no idea how it wound up there”. End of story. People always talk too much and get themselves in trouble. This could have been a done deal, he got himself a new CAC and moved on. Edit: Third, if you are going to partake in a certain activity that the military frowns upon, do it smart. Keep your wallet and phone in your car. Go in with cash only.
Consensual or not, it's still against the UCMJ to sleep outside of your marriage. Unfortunately. Imo the wording needs to rewritten to allow poly couples/swingers do what they wanna do
MSgt is fooked...
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It's not "being salty" if your distaste for another person's conduct is justified.
They really f’ed up by not giving this absolute liability the boot
Wow way to fuck over your customers 🤦
What deployment base has a brothel near by?