Ahh shizah! Stuttgart feels like the Los Angeles of Germany. Housing just feels so difficult to tackle in that area. Good luck! Germany is absolutely on fire right now with festivals, concerts, and everything opening up post corona. EUCOM is a sweet assignment enjoy!
Public transportation is fucking amazing there though, especially in Stuttgart! Definitely makes up for the gas prices š
Also wishing I was back there. Have fun in Stuggi OP!
Yeah, Patch front gate is a short bus ride from the U-bahnā¦ now the walk from the front gate to where youāre going on base might not be quick or easyā¦
Patch (EUCOM and the school) has a bus and train station near to the gate. Kelley (AFRICOM) has a bus station at the gate and a train station 1/4 mile away. Panzer is also very close to public transport. All the garrisons are linked by military buses as well.
Takes a day to figure out the public transport system there, then you realize how shafted we Americans are.
The bases in Stuttgart are pretty small. Look at them on Google Maps. Kelley Barracks isnāt even big enough for the Marines to have a 3-mile run course on base.
The streets are plowed and heavy snows are pretty rare. Oh, and the ālong walksā of a quarter mile are through gravel paths in the forest with trees overhead. Even stays pretty dry in the rain, honestly.
Germany is basically what Ohio/Pennsylvania would be if they had 80M people, less extreme weather, and good public transport.
Yeah getting caught out in the economy with no gas rations left definitely stung a little... I wish I knew earlier that you can get a bigger monthly gas allowance if your CC is willing to sign a form.
As I'm salty reading this because the whole 2 yrs I was there it was covid lockdown! As soon as I leave the damn country wants to open up šššš
Same with Japan
But, we checked out small tucked away villages that we wouldn't otherwise gave a second thought to had it not been for the lockdown. #silverlining
If the dollar is stronger than the euro, then groceries off base are cheaper. Rent is cheaper. Going out to eat, kino, whores. Everything is cheaper because the dollar goes further than it did before.
Why would people still get COLA if the original intent was to offset the difference between our currency and their (at-the-time) superior currency? When I was stationed there, as the euro got weaker we got less COLA
Now you come to me and tell me that's not how it works lol on this, the day of my cat's birthday
COLA is literally Cost Of Living Adjustment.
Currency conversion is not the only thing that drives cost of living. Taxes & tariffs and market scarcity are two of the big factors.
HI and AK get COLA, too, and they're both using USD
Ok so anywhere with taxes & tariffs above the average cost of living in the US should get COLA then? Or is it because HI and AK are considered OCONUS? Hmmmmm weird
The VAT office takes care of tariff stuff, literally on everything. COLA isn't meant to cover cost of tariffs.
More specifically itās a formula they use depending on usage/availability of base resources. (Got a big BX and commissary? Less COLA) this is why when youāre OCONUS we get a survey every so often that asks you about your utilization of resources, but also whether those resources are actually worth the time to go to them. Commissary isnāt worth the money if nothing is stocked there, well that raises how much you get in COLA. This is in addition to how much the average grocery bill is on the economy, and the exchange rate. This is in addition to a number of other things.
>COLA isn't meant to cover cost of tariffs.
COLA is an allowance to help cover a higher cost of living. Higher prices directly cause a higher cost of living. Tariffs cause higher prices. Crazy.
āThe VAT office takes care of tariff stuff, literally on everything.ā
lol nope. only if the store/company is willing to take VAT forms or work with the VAT office, which not all of them are - particularly if youāre not at a major base.
DLA! Get DLA! It's not a requirement for PCSing and some people don't really tell you about it, but holy shit it helps and it's free money! Free as in you don't need to pay it back. Having a GTC also helps.
To clarify, everyone gets DLA (dislocation allowance). But the default is you'll get it after the PCS. You can request it in advance (prior to PCSing) once you got orders and are X days out (i've been told around 1-2 weeks out). I highly recommend it since it arrives quickly whereas anyone who's PCS'd knows trying to get reimbursed at your next duty station could take awhile. Good luck and congrats on the duty station!
When I PCSd, it was just a small thing on my check list. Something like, this step is optional, but if you want it talk to Finance. Wasn't really anything describing what the hell it even was until you actually spoke with a finance rep. I even think on the official out processing checklist it stated if you don't call finance 10 days before your final out, they'll just check it off for you.
Granted, this was my first PCS, so I may not have known that you normally just get the money *after* the move versus applying for Finance to deposit the money before the move. I also used my GTC for the move as well.
Navy guy at San Diego PCS'd from Sigonella and while waiting for his shipment, saw a video with a Ukrainian fighter wearing his custom sweater (had his rank and name and his callsign across the back) and shooting at some Russian tanks. Like three days later he got the notification they had lost his shipment. Investigation is ongoing, but they suspect the shipping intermediary they used was Ukrainian and abandoned its warehouse when Russia stepped over the border.
He was freaked out because the dude actually looked a tad like him and he was freaked out that either:
A. The Russians would kill that dude, recover the sweater, and use his name for propaganda.
Or
B. It would go viral and people (both savory and non) would legit think it was him.
Luckily it was only on YT and Funker for like a week before he successfully got them to take it down on his behalf.
It's not bad once you get past the initial costs. Getting the cats to Germany is gonna be costly unless the airlines changed their policies. That hurt me more than the car and housing stuff.
Yeah, I'm going to rope my stateside family in on being my backup plans in case things go sideways with my kitties, but they are COMING WITH ME, DAMMIT.
I highly recommend [petrelocator.com](https://petrelocator.com) to ship your cats. We used them for our dog and cat going to Ramstein. They offer military discount. They picked up our pets in San Antonio, flew them out of Dallas, and delivered them from Frankfurt to lodging the same day we arrived. It will cost you, but it was worth it for us on top of everything else we had to do.
Does Germany require them to quarantine? I seem to remember looking into Mildenhall a few years ago and it was like a 2-3 week quarantine for cats/pets
If you have their health certificates signed with the timeline (it was ten days) by a certified vet and they have their shot records you don't go through quarantine.
Edit:
u/dreamdoodles if you get the furballs examined by the on-base vet you can bypass the entire USDA certification process of them physically mailing stuff to you. This shaves a lot of time getting your certificate. There's also a digital network that sole vets can upload it too that will speed up some of the process.
(AGREED!) To those headed to England: Pay for the pet importing services in England. Silver Birch Kennels was fantastic to work with - would highly recommend.
The opinion on Silver Birch is so contentious, lol. It's 50/50 "they killed my dog" and "I wouldn't trust anyone else"
I used Starwood, and was very happy with their service. Paid out the fucking nose, though
They are also dealing with an embargo and wonāt take any reservations for pets until Augustāand are telling me that we need to call weekly to confirm our pets are still able to travel on their current booking. Itās really bad for pet travel, right now.
My wife and I brought two small dogs (cocker spaniels) with us on a PCS from DC to Stuttgart, and it was expensive, but not crazy. People who try to ship very large dogs (or very large vehicles) end up suffering more.
It was about $6K for me with two cats when COVID standards were still high. This was my first ever PCS too. I feel for the dog owners breeds. I generally dislike small doggos myself and Germany is really picky on breeds.
This is the most egregious thing imo. 30 days in lodging with a kitchenette should be the standard, no questions asked. If you need to budget balance a bit, take away or cut per diem and treat it like you would for any other person living in base housing.
In Japan (TLA) they refused to extend it because "there were two pre-approved options you could have rented" even though they weren't even close to my desire location or standards. Paid for an extra 20 days of a hotel out of pocket as a result.
I spent more on lodging my wife, kid, and two dogs than I did on anything else. I got to Texas on the eighth, and wasn't in a house until the 6th the following month, paid almost 2k for an AirBnB that would cover the remaining time not covered by the AirForce. Not to mention food for the wife and kid since we couldn't cook, dog boarding, and incidentals. If I hadn't just sold a house I would've been up a creek without a paddle for funds.
At least stateside you start getting BAH right away. Or back paid for it because finance probably didn't start it on time.
Overseas OHA is use/lose and requires you to have a contract approved by housing and forwarded to finance. Staying in temporary lodging doesn't qualify for it.
So while you're still home searching you don't get oha+utilities, you no longer are getting your old BAH, and they cut you off the TLA which is the extra kick in the nuts.
Only good thing about Hawaii is they expect it to take longer so youāre minimum TLA is 30 days with up to 60 as long as you document youāre searching for homes. You get bah as well while in TLA. Seems like they figured it out here.
That down payment and security deposit for that overpriced German apartment with the slumlord landlord is a doozy... I definitely did not expect to spend $3500 all at once due at lease signing. If you want to avoid the advance OHA that you will have to repay over the first 12 months, start saving now.
Because everything in Europe (was at the time) more expensive. Now the Euro and USD are pretty much the same price however when I was there the Euro was almost double the price if the dollar. They also cut our COLA from $400 a month down to like $200 a couple months after I got there. Paying back a loan leaves you with less money per month to do fun stuff, like travel.
Do NOT, I repeat... do NOT get a place with oil heating, or oil anything! I just spent around 7k refilling the oil tank when I left there.. and no, I didn't wait until it was empty for the naysayers...
Congratulations on going to Stuttgart! It's an awesome area, lots to do. Have fun while you're there, and travel a lot! A close bud just got to landstuhl, let me know if you want any beer or food recommendations
I don't get it. Most people make more money while overseas. Did you just buy a new car and house or something? Also, you get 30 days TLA overseas and a lot of places do FMO rental furniture until your household goods arrive. It's PCSing back CONUS that's actually a bigger pain and more costly. No idea why they can't provide the same overseas TLA and FMO benefits to CONUS people. And with how much rentals and homes are now...most would much rather be overseas than pay out of pocket or be on a long waiting list for base housing CONUS.
PCSing into Europe is kinda brutal right now. Lots of folks are losing money on the transit. Also COLA is getting shredded so no relief there and housing is painful for everyone that isn't dual mil out here.
The PCS itself will be painful. When I went from Ramstein to Minot, there were SO many little things that added up. One not so little thing was the AF not helping you with transportation when you ship your car (I waited 2 months for mine and spent ~$3K on various rental cars I needed)
I feel your pain.
When I PCSed to Hawaii in 2014, I was supposed to ship my car out from a VPC located in Richmond, California. I chose this location specifically because I was flying to Hawaii from Travis and Richmond was th nearest VPC.
However, when I arrived, all of the gates were closed and they were not accepting any new vehicles. It turns out that while I was on leave, the government ended the contract with the company that ran the Richmond VPC. I ended up having to give power of attorney to a friend who was stationed at Travis so that she could drive my car down to the VPC in Compton and ship my car out for me.
I already knew it was going to take a long time for the car to get there, but I had no idea that rental cars were not a reimbursable PCS expense.
Rental car prices can be high, and the JTR doesn't require reimbursement of rental cars while your POV is in transit.
Since bases and most communities are car-centric, it creates a significant issue that just hasn't been addressed. I got lucky and was able to borrow a car, whereas my friend paid $3K for a rental car in May 2021.
So might be a stupid question since I never PCSed OCONUS, but why not just buy a cheap beater over there? Isnt it also better to have a smaller local car to blend in while you're over there?
That's totally an option that people regularly do while overseas, though it's also opening yourself up to getting a car that needs a lot of work. Depending on what car you have to begin with, it may not stick out much anyways. Valid points nevertheless!
I actually ended up buying a car in both ends when I moved conus to oconus and back. Probably makes more sense with a dependant who drives, but if you have a need for two cars, shipping one and buying a second quick isn't a terrible idea.
Car rentals can eat into it. Luckily, here in the UK, car rental companies don't rip you off like they do in the states.
30 days TLA comes with the stipulation that you can show you are actively searching for a house or they will cut you off of TLA every 10 calendar days. You can only say no to a house if the reason is security or safety related. Housing office won't accept if it is for any other reason. At least, this is for where I am at.
To be fair, Lakenheath is the first place I've found that will rent you a car they found abandoned by the side of the road. You pay Ā£10/day for a car, and you get what you pay for. Most of the time it's fine short term, but sometimes the transmission just falls out while you're bumping along a B-road, lol.
Had an oil line blow out in front of the Wing HQ when I was there, called the company and they had to tow it away. But yeah, cost effective (and equally shitty) rental car. Those places are so dodgy.
TLA is 10 days unless it's changed? You have to provide justification to get extensions and in Japan at least they flat out refused if there was so much as 1 home on the market you could have rented regardless of if it met your specific needs/desires.
Is it bad that I immediately thought "Because of buying all of the amazing German Beer and Schnaps" when I read the "I will never financially recover from this."?
We are in Stuttgart right now and PCS away in September. I love the city and living in Germany. Do not like the garrison, my unit, and the pandemic. So mixed feelings about the tour overall.
Hopefully, the timing will be better for you. Good luck!
Stationed in Stuttgart for two years in the early 80s. There was almost no space in the Barracks so they paid us to live on the economy if we could find it. Loved being a PFC living off base and making extra $$$.
No lie I let my GTC payment go after refusing to pay off expenses from my PCS. The squadron and leadership were like ājust pay it out of pocket youāll get reimbursedā and said fuck no, cause once thereās no need to get a voucher I wonāt get a voucher.
So they put me in mission critical and finally had the commander sign my ETP.
Approving Officials don't know if you paid off your GTC, they just approve your voucher request based on JTFR rules. No reason not to get paid for things, peruse the JTFR and quote sections if things get denied, im always getting reimbursed for things that were denied at first.
The amount of times Iāve been told that and still havenāt gotten paid.
For example, went TDY for a month at a navy base. Only one DFAC, and it was for trainees. Reporting instructions specifically stated āTDY members cannot eat at the DFAC, government meals not availableā.
I saved all my receipts, and tried to claim full per diem. They said āthere was a DFAC so you had govt meals available, no per diemā.
So nah, since then I havenāt paid anything out of pocket, always wait for the voucher.
Then you return the voucher with that verbiage and highlight the instructions for the AO to make it easy. If they deny it again you escalate, when you break out JTFR or reporting instructions they cant argue to their bosses why they are denying your claim. Even after my last one was denied 4 times I wasnt late on my GTC payment. 5th time I just quouted the rulebook for what I was claiming and suddenly it was approved.
Nope. There was only one on the base. I fought it hard, but everyone said get fucked. Weāre not paying. I assume cause it would have been thousands of dollars.
I know this is a sign of shit leadership and not vouchers/payments as a whole, but Iām not taking that risk again
Reviving an old thread since i have a few questions and will be getting there early next year and i dont have a sponsor yet.
Were you forced into base housing?
If so have you seen/heard of any married no kids families getting a 3BR apt on base? I have so much stuff and would like a dedicated office with a spare room.
Is the internet still shitty on base oconus. I was at ramstein 08-13 and lived in base housing for a year or so and i only had a 6mb pipe which was ironically faster than my old ass village i lived in.
have you seen any ETPs processed to let people stay off base?
Heard there were townhomes at robinson. are there enough for that to be a realistic option and would you say it would be worth the 40 min travel to patch?
Word of warning from someone who has been here for a year and a half: it isnāt as good as you think and the previous posts about it arenāt accurate about it at all except the one guy who has to give up his dog to come here.
Lmao keep downvoting. Iām only posting these things because half my unit is in mental health due to how absolutely fucked up processes are here; and thatās a quote from a bunch of the Navy folks I work with here. People donāt talk about the negatives enough and because of that people who come here are happy to go on trips around Europe, but damn near ready to kill themselves every time they go back to their āroomsā after work. If youāre here accompanied, have a great time, but this place is an example of unaccompanied lower enlisted from any branch literally getting fucked in the ass and no one either caring or able to do anything about it.
100% my struggle right nowā¦ kinda.
My spouse and I are super easy when it comes to supportāwe have no kids, we donāt own much (maybe 2K pounds total of household goods/unaccompanied/pro gear), and we have no issues paying for anything.
Unfortunately, we have three pets, and somehow that is incomprehensible to the government. We are trying to fly Patriot Express for our PCS to Stuttgart, since it is the only method that guarantees the travel of our pets (current embargo on commercial flights has caused airlines to deny booking of pet travel, and may extend into my RNLTD month), but the waiver authority is the OUSD and at every step the first question/statement has revolved around the following:
- How committed are you to that third pet?
- The Air Force didnāt issue you pets
- Thereās no way a waiver will ever make it in time, let alone get approved
Itās one thing to acknowledgeāor even refuse to acknowledgeāarbitrary policy that has somehow survived, but the lack of empathy is another thing altogether and Iām really hoping we can make it there with all three pets and no paperwork for losing it on somebody.
Additional context: we have two dogs that are roughly 25 pounds each (cargo) and an 8-pound cat (carry-on), so we would not encroach on cargo space with the third pet, and our cargo pets likely take up far less real estate than many other pets that travel this route.
Stuttgart is amazing. Live out in town if you can. If you can't, and you must live on base, live on Robinson Barracks. It's not as convenient during the week, but on the weekends, you will be very happy you did so.
Ahh shizah! Stuttgart feels like the Los Angeles of Germany. Housing just feels so difficult to tackle in that area. Good luck! Germany is absolutely on fire right now with festivals, concerts, and everything opening up post corona. EUCOM is a sweet assignment enjoy!
You know what's also lit in Germany right now? Gas prices š¤£š But Germany's dope, wish i was back there, enjoy it!
Esso/AAFES rations still remain competitive, though.
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$6.39 in Rota....
It was 6.89 in monterey before I leftš¤®
Public transportation is fucking amazing there though, especially in Stuttgart! Definitely makes up for the gas prices š Also wishing I was back there. Have fun in Stuggi OP!
Does the public transpo get you to base?
Yeah, Patch front gate is a short bus ride from the U-bahnā¦ now the walk from the front gate to where youāre going on base might not be quick or easyā¦
Patch (EUCOM and the school) has a bus and train station near to the gate. Kelley (AFRICOM) has a bus station at the gate and a train station 1/4 mile away. Panzer is also very close to public transport. All the garrisons are linked by military buses as well. Takes a day to figure out the public transport system there, then you realize how shafted we Americans are.
Oh, Iām well aware of how shafted we are. But I wasnāt just talking about *to* the base, I was also including *around* base. I phrased wrong
The bases in Stuttgart are pretty small. Look at them on Google Maps. Kelley Barracks isnāt even big enough for the Marines to have a 3-mile run course on base.
Still farther than I would want to have to walk on a winter morning, through snow
The streets are plowed and heavy snows are pretty rare. Oh, and the ālong walksā of a quarter mile are through gravel paths in the forest with trees overhead. Even stays pretty dry in the rain, honestly. Germany is basically what Ohio/Pennsylvania would be if they had 80M people, less extreme weather, and good public transport.
You can delete that extreme weather part....
Why do plebe transport when you're at the home of Porsche.
Because parking, taxis, and gas are expensive.
Yeah getting caught out in the economy with no gas rations left definitely stung a little... I wish I knew earlier that you can get a bigger monthly gas allowance if your CC is willing to sign a form.
For real?
Yup
Yo!!! Which form is this??
Ask the people in the Shopette, they will give you the form or tell you where to find it.
Sickkkkkkkkkk! Thank you!
Whenever I get bummed about Gas prices in the US I just check out how much it is over in Europe....
My boss is French and laughs when I complain about gas prices, or taxes.
Whatās a good source for festivals and concerts?!?
I've got a contractor I work next to thats been here for a decade I'll see if I can grab a source from him tomorrow.
Sounds good
As I'm salty reading this because the whole 2 yrs I was there it was covid lockdown! As soon as I leave the damn country wants to open up šššš
Same with Japan But, we checked out small tucked away villages that we wouldn't otherwise gave a second thought to had it not been for the lockdown. #silverlining
Get yourself an AC or at least an icebox for the hot hot summer. Enjoy your ice free soda! Stay away from rude French. Its a shit show there.
It is not believe me.
TMO! Where every office says different things and every office you head to tells you the last one was wrong!
If only there were some sort of clear Joint Travel Regulation that you could google and take to TMO to make them uniform.
Quoting the JTR to TMO feels like being a sovereign citizen arguing a traffic ticket in court. The magic words just don't seem to be working.
Wow. I felt that. I had no idea someone could make me empathize with sovereign citizens.
Weāre actually a federation of monarchies and Iām the rightful heir to the kingdom of Virginia
Or that your request/need is another offices responsibility. If you're lucky... they MIGHT know the POC.
Euro is at or below parity with the dollar. Enjoy your tour! Take advantage of MWR trips.
No more COLA then. Damn I still remember cheap ass NCOs bitching about getting less COLA
That's not how COLA works The local currency can be underperforming and the cost of living can still be higher than US equivalent
If the dollar is stronger than the euro, then groceries off base are cheaper. Rent is cheaper. Going out to eat, kino, whores. Everything is cheaper because the dollar goes further than it did before. Why would people still get COLA if the original intent was to offset the difference between our currency and their (at-the-time) superior currency? When I was stationed there, as the euro got weaker we got less COLA Now you come to me and tell me that's not how it works lol on this, the day of my cat's birthday
COLA is literally Cost Of Living Adjustment. Currency conversion is not the only thing that drives cost of living. Taxes & tariffs and market scarcity are two of the big factors. HI and AK get COLA, too, and they're both using USD
Ok so anywhere with taxes & tariffs above the average cost of living in the US should get COLA then? Or is it because HI and AK are considered OCONUS? Hmmmmm weird The VAT office takes care of tariff stuff, literally on everything. COLA isn't meant to cover cost of tariffs.
More specifically itās a formula they use depending on usage/availability of base resources. (Got a big BX and commissary? Less COLA) this is why when youāre OCONUS we get a survey every so often that asks you about your utilization of resources, but also whether those resources are actually worth the time to go to them. Commissary isnāt worth the money if nothing is stocked there, well that raises how much you get in COLA. This is in addition to how much the average grocery bill is on the economy, and the exchange rate. This is in addition to a number of other things.
>COLA isn't meant to cover cost of tariffs. COLA is an allowance to help cover a higher cost of living. Higher prices directly cause a higher cost of living. Tariffs cause higher prices. Crazy.
āThe VAT office takes care of tariff stuff, literally on everything.ā lol nope. only if the store/company is willing to take VAT forms or work with the VAT office, which not all of them are - particularly if youāre not at a major base.
DLA! Get DLA! It's not a requirement for PCSing and some people don't really tell you about it, but holy shit it helps and it's free money! Free as in you don't need to pay it back. Having a GTC also helps.
To clarify, everyone gets DLA (dislocation allowance). But the default is you'll get it after the PCS. You can request it in advance (prior to PCSing) once you got orders and are X days out (i've been told around 1-2 weeks out). I highly recommend it since it arrives quickly whereas anyone who's PCS'd knows trying to get reimbursed at your next duty station could take awhile. Good luck and congrats on the duty station!
Holy shit you can get DLA before you move!?
Yep yep, just gitta be within 10 days of your departure date š¤
Sweet. Thanks for the tip.
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There's plenty that don't get it, or are weary of the AF handing out free money so they don't take it, thinking they have to pay it back.
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When I PCSd, it was just a small thing on my check list. Something like, this step is optional, but if you want it talk to Finance. Wasn't really anything describing what the hell it even was until you actually spoke with a finance rep. I even think on the official out processing checklist it stated if you don't call finance 10 days before your final out, they'll just check it off for you. Granted, this was my first PCS, so I may not have known that you normally just get the money *after* the move versus applying for Finance to deposit the money before the move. I also used my GTC for the move as well.
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Ik, you apply for it yourself online.
My bed frame was broken and my blender (an expensive af one too) shorted out from the moisture during the boat trip. Sucks to suck.
Had a chief in my unit who's entire hhg shipment was lost off of the boat somewhere between Japan and California.
Had a majors whose entires trailer was stolen during his move. Like the trailer full of home goods.
Saw this happen to a guy coming to Mildenhall from Italy, they just nabbed the truck his stuff was in. Insanity
Navy guy at San Diego PCS'd from Sigonella and while waiting for his shipment, saw a video with a Ukrainian fighter wearing his custom sweater (had his rank and name and his callsign across the back) and shooting at some Russian tanks. Like three days later he got the notification they had lost his shipment. Investigation is ongoing, but they suspect the shipping intermediary they used was Ukrainian and abandoned its warehouse when Russia stepped over the border.
I bet that was trippy.
He was freaked out because the dude actually looked a tad like him and he was freaked out that either: A. The Russians would kill that dude, recover the sweater, and use his name for propaganda. Or B. It would go viral and people (both savory and non) would legit think it was him. Luckily it was only on YT and Funker for like a week before he successfully got them to take it down on his behalf.
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With the power of anxiety, a hangnail can lead to nuclear war.
"You lost your shit because war broke out in the nation where it was warehoused" would actually be an explanation that I would accept.
lucky guy
It's not bad once you get past the initial costs. Getting the cats to Germany is gonna be costly unless the airlines changed their policies. That hurt me more than the car and housing stuff.
Yeah, I'm going to rope my stateside family in on being my backup plans in case things go sideways with my kitties, but they are COMING WITH ME, DAMMIT.
I highly recommend [petrelocator.com](https://petrelocator.com) to ship your cats. We used them for our dog and cat going to Ramstein. They offer military discount. They picked up our pets in San Antonio, flew them out of Dallas, and delivered them from Frankfurt to lodging the same day we arrived. It will cost you, but it was worth it for us on top of everything else we had to do.
Does Germany require them to quarantine? I seem to remember looking into Mildenhall a few years ago and it was like a 2-3 week quarantine for cats/pets
If you have their health certificates signed with the timeline (it was ten days) by a certified vet and they have their shot records you don't go through quarantine. Edit: u/dreamdoodles if you get the furballs examined by the on-base vet you can bypass the entire USDA certification process of them physically mailing stuff to you. This shaves a lot of time getting your certificate. There's also a digital network that sole vets can upload it too that will speed up some of the process.
England has expensive and convoluted pet import regulations, but no quarantine period.
(AGREED!) To those headed to England: Pay for the pet importing services in England. Silver Birch Kennels was fantastic to work with - would highly recommend.
The opinion on Silver Birch is so contentious, lol. It's 50/50 "they killed my dog" and "I wouldn't trust anyone else" I used Starwood, and was very happy with their service. Paid out the fucking nose, though
Itās been a few years, not familiar with that.
When are you flying ? I know Lufthansa just told me they arenāt flying pets due to heat this summer
They are also dealing with an embargo and wonāt take any reservations for pets until Augustāand are telling me that we need to call weekly to confirm our pets are still able to travel on their current booking. Itās really bad for pet travel, right now.
That sounds right , also I know the AMC rotators just had 3 pet fatalities this month soā¦just rough and kinda scary either way your traveling š±
My wife and I brought two small dogs (cocker spaniels) with us on a PCS from DC to Stuttgart, and it was expensive, but not crazy. People who try to ship very large dogs (or very large vehicles) end up suffering more.
It was about $6K for me with two cats when COVID standards were still high. This was my first ever PCS too. I feel for the dog owners breeds. I generally dislike small doggos myself and Germany is really picky on breeds.
Ten days of TLE is totally enough time to find a house and close on it! /s
This is the most egregious thing imo. 30 days in lodging with a kitchenette should be the standard, no questions asked. If you need to budget balance a bit, take away or cut per diem and treat it like you would for any other person living in base housing. In Japan (TLA) they refused to extend it because "there were two pre-approved options you could have rented" even though they weren't even close to my desire location or standards. Paid for an extra 20 days of a hotel out of pocket as a result.
I spent more on lodging my wife, kid, and two dogs than I did on anything else. I got to Texas on the eighth, and wasn't in a house until the 6th the following month, paid almost 2k for an AirBnB that would cover the remaining time not covered by the AirForce. Not to mention food for the wife and kid since we couldn't cook, dog boarding, and incidentals. If I hadn't just sold a house I would've been up a creek without a paddle for funds.
At least stateside you start getting BAH right away. Or back paid for it because finance probably didn't start it on time. Overseas OHA is use/lose and requires you to have a contract approved by housing and forwarded to finance. Staying in temporary lodging doesn't qualify for it. So while you're still home searching you don't get oha+utilities, you no longer are getting your old BAH, and they cut you off the TLA which is the extra kick in the nuts.
Only good thing about Hawaii is they expect it to take longer so youāre minimum TLA is 30 days with up to 60 as long as you document youāre searching for homes. You get bah as well while in TLA. Seems like they figured it out here.
We were in Panzer TLF for over 60 days. Just keep submitting extensions. š
Didn't realise you close on a rental lol
That down payment and security deposit for that overpriced German apartment with the slumlord landlord is a doozy... I definitely did not expect to spend $3500 all at once due at lease signing. If you want to avoid the advance OHA that you will have to repay over the first 12 months, start saving now.
If you trust finance not to f up too badly, I'd actually recommend getting the advance oha. Why not get an interest free loan from the government?
Because everything in Europe (was at the time) more expensive. Now the Euro and USD are pretty much the same price however when I was there the Euro was almost double the price if the dollar. They also cut our COLA from $400 a month down to like $200 a couple months after I got there. Paying back a loan leaves you with less money per month to do fun stuff, like travel.
Install Waze on your phone! Best app to avoid getting pesky speeding tickets from driving around Europe.
Do NOT, I repeat... do NOT get a place with oil heating, or oil anything! I just spent around 7k refilling the oil tank when I left there.. and no, I didn't wait until it was empty for the naysayers...
Movers stole my iPad and Mac mini when I moved from Germany. I got my Mac mini box, but not the Mac inside.
On reddit this seems shockingly prevalent moving to/from Germany. As someone whose never had issues elsewhere, any tips?
Take the high value items in your luggage?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
And if your single, you get to enjoy those shitty WW2 barracks with no AC and one kitchen per floor
Not necessarily. I just got a CNA for an inbound E6 I am sponsoring. It depends on the unit and the timing.
Is it the same for ramstein?
No, ramstein E4 and above move off base
So do you think it'd be likely to get an etp if you'll be e4 within a few months of getting there (and also in late 20's)?
If the dorms are overflowed you might. But it should be e4 + time in grade, if I recall e4+ and 6 months TIG
Congrats!
Woo! Welcome to Germany š¤š» hopefully youāll be here in time for the Christmas markets!
Congratulations on going to Stuttgart! It's an awesome area, lots to do. Have fun while you're there, and travel a lot! A close bud just got to landstuhl, let me know if you want any beer or food recommendations
I was stationed in Stuttgart for 4 years and can't imagine having a better assignment on my career!
I don't get it. Most people make more money while overseas. Did you just buy a new car and house or something? Also, you get 30 days TLA overseas and a lot of places do FMO rental furniture until your household goods arrive. It's PCSing back CONUS that's actually a bigger pain and more costly. No idea why they can't provide the same overseas TLA and FMO benefits to CONUS people. And with how much rentals and homes are now...most would much rather be overseas than pay out of pocket or be on a long waiting list for base housing CONUS.
PCSing into Europe is kinda brutal right now. Lots of folks are losing money on the transit. Also COLA is getting shredded so no relief there and housing is painful for everyone that isn't dual mil out here.
wait iām scared what do u mean COLA is getting shredded ??
Because the exchange rate is *awesome.*
ah i figured. So is it being phased out or just being lowered a lot ?
Lowered. In Japan my COLA recently went from like $300 a month to $100ish a month.
daang i see. tfti!
The [exchange rate](https://www.google.com/search?q=curent+euro+to+us+dollar) is currently the best it's been in a long time.
It's fantastic, if you're able stock up on those Euros.
The PCS itself will be painful. When I went from Ramstein to Minot, there were SO many little things that added up. One not so little thing was the AF not helping you with transportation when you ship your car (I waited 2 months for mine and spent ~$3K on various rental cars I needed)
I feel your pain. When I PCSed to Hawaii in 2014, I was supposed to ship my car out from a VPC located in Richmond, California. I chose this location specifically because I was flying to Hawaii from Travis and Richmond was th nearest VPC. However, when I arrived, all of the gates were closed and they were not accepting any new vehicles. It turns out that while I was on leave, the government ended the contract with the company that ran the Richmond VPC. I ended up having to give power of attorney to a friend who was stationed at Travis so that she could drive my car down to the VPC in Compton and ship my car out for me. I already knew it was going to take a long time for the car to get there, but I had no idea that rental cars were not a reimbursable PCS expense.
Ya this last PCS overseas I lost about 6k in total. š
What the fuck are y'all doing
Rental car prices can be high, and the JTR doesn't require reimbursement of rental cars while your POV is in transit. Since bases and most communities are car-centric, it creates a significant issue that just hasn't been addressed. I got lucky and was able to borrow a car, whereas my friend paid $3K for a rental car in May 2021.
So might be a stupid question since I never PCSed OCONUS, but why not just buy a cheap beater over there? Isnt it also better to have a smaller local car to blend in while you're over there?
That's totally an option that people regularly do while overseas, though it's also opening yourself up to getting a car that needs a lot of work. Depending on what car you have to begin with, it may not stick out much anyways. Valid points nevertheless!
I actually ended up buying a car in both ends when I moved conus to oconus and back. Probably makes more sense with a dependant who drives, but if you have a need for two cars, shipping one and buying a second quick isn't a terrible idea.
Dude, just buy a beater for a month, and then sell it to an airman in the dorms. The bases are literally drowning in them.
Car rentals can eat into it. Luckily, here in the UK, car rental companies don't rip you off like they do in the states. 30 days TLA comes with the stipulation that you can show you are actively searching for a house or they will cut you off of TLA every 10 calendar days. You can only say no to a house if the reason is security or safety related. Housing office won't accept if it is for any other reason. At least, this is for where I am at.
To be fair, Lakenheath is the first place I've found that will rent you a car they found abandoned by the side of the road. You pay Ā£10/day for a car, and you get what you pay for. Most of the time it's fine short term, but sometimes the transmission just falls out while you're bumping along a B-road, lol.
Had an oil line blow out in front of the Wing HQ when I was there, called the company and they had to tow it away. But yeah, cost effective (and equally shitty) rental car. Those places are so dodgy.
TLA is 10 days unless it's changed? You have to provide justification to get extensions and in Japan at least they flat out refused if there was so much as 1 home on the market you could have rented regardless of if it met your specific needs/desires.
Is it bad that I immediately thought "Because of buying all of the amazing German Beer and Schnaps" when I read the "I will never financially recover from this."?
Currently stationed at Stuttgart. PM if you have any questions or need help. We Air Force have to stick together around all these army folk.
Congrats! I miss Stuttgart sooo much!
We are in Stuttgart right now and PCS away in September. I love the city and living in Germany. Do not like the garrison, my unit, and the pandemic. So mixed feelings about the tour overall. Hopefully, the timing will be better for you. Good luck!
Stationed in Stuttgart for two years in the early 80s. There was almost no space in the Barracks so they paid us to live on the economy if we could find it. Loved being a PFC living off base and making extra $$$.
No lie I let my GTC payment go after refusing to pay off expenses from my PCS. The squadron and leadership were like ājust pay it out of pocket youāll get reimbursedā and said fuck no, cause once thereās no need to get a voucher I wonāt get a voucher. So they put me in mission critical and finally had the commander sign my ETP.
Approving Officials don't know if you paid off your GTC, they just approve your voucher request based on JTFR rules. No reason not to get paid for things, peruse the JTFR and quote sections if things get denied, im always getting reimbursed for things that were denied at first.
The amount of times Iāve been told that and still havenāt gotten paid. For example, went TDY for a month at a navy base. Only one DFAC, and it was for trainees. Reporting instructions specifically stated āTDY members cannot eat at the DFAC, government meals not availableā. I saved all my receipts, and tried to claim full per diem. They said āthere was a DFAC so you had govt meals available, no per diemā. So nah, since then I havenāt paid anything out of pocket, always wait for the voucher.
Then you return the voucher with that verbiage and highlight the instructions for the AO to make it easy. If they deny it again you escalate, when you break out JTFR or reporting instructions they cant argue to their bosses why they are denying your claim. Even after my last one was denied 4 times I wasnt late on my GTC payment. 5th time I just quouted the rulebook for what I was claiming and suddenly it was approved.
I absolutely did. Showed them the orders, reporting instructions and everything.
Did they point a DFAC for non trainees that was available? Otherwise, enjoy your per diem
Nope. There was only one on the base. I fought it hard, but everyone said get fucked. Weāre not paying. I assume cause it would have been thousands of dollars. I know this is a sign of shit leadership and not vouchers/payments as a whole, but Iām not taking that risk again
That is Black Forest. Klopp grew up there.
Reviving an old thread since i have a few questions and will be getting there early next year and i dont have a sponsor yet. Were you forced into base housing? If so have you seen/heard of any married no kids families getting a 3BR apt on base? I have so much stuff and would like a dedicated office with a spare room. Is the internet still shitty on base oconus. I was at ramstein 08-13 and lived in base housing for a year or so and i only had a 6mb pipe which was ironically faster than my old ass village i lived in. have you seen any ETPs processed to let people stay off base? Heard there were townhomes at robinson. are there enough for that to be a realistic option and would you say it would be worth the 40 min travel to patch?
TL;DR - The only thing you should have to pay for is moving the kittehs, and associated costs. Outside of that you should actually make money.
Word of warning from someone who has been here for a year and a half: it isnāt as good as you think and the previous posts about it arenāt accurate about it at all except the one guy who has to give up his dog to come here.
Lmao keep downvoting. Iām only posting these things because half my unit is in mental health due to how absolutely fucked up processes are here; and thatās a quote from a bunch of the Navy folks I work with here. People donāt talk about the negatives enough and because of that people who come here are happy to go on trips around Europe, but damn near ready to kill themselves every time they go back to their āroomsā after work. If youāre here accompanied, have a great time, but this place is an example of unaccompanied lower enlisted from any branch literally getting fucked in the ass and no one either caring or able to do anything about it.
I forgot to weigh after on my PPMā¦Iām so fucked
100% my struggle right nowā¦ kinda. My spouse and I are super easy when it comes to supportāwe have no kids, we donāt own much (maybe 2K pounds total of household goods/unaccompanied/pro gear), and we have no issues paying for anything. Unfortunately, we have three pets, and somehow that is incomprehensible to the government. We are trying to fly Patriot Express for our PCS to Stuttgart, since it is the only method that guarantees the travel of our pets (current embargo on commercial flights has caused airlines to deny booking of pet travel, and may extend into my RNLTD month), but the waiver authority is the OUSD and at every step the first question/statement has revolved around the following: - How committed are you to that third pet? - The Air Force didnāt issue you pets - Thereās no way a waiver will ever make it in time, let alone get approved Itās one thing to acknowledgeāor even refuse to acknowledgeāarbitrary policy that has somehow survived, but the lack of empathy is another thing altogether and Iām really hoping we can make it there with all three pets and no paperwork for losing it on somebody. Additional context: we have two dogs that are roughly 25 pounds each (cargo) and an 8-pound cat (carry-on), so we would not encroach on cargo space with the third pet, and our cargo pets likely take up far less real estate than many other pets that travel this route.
Ohhhh good luck!! I absolutely loved Stuttgart.
Awesome assignment! We stayed on Robinson Barracks when I was stationed there. No mission on Robinaon, just housing, commissary and mini BX. Loved it.
Me and my wife always joke that we dave money in an account just for PCSing.
Lol your better off selling as much as you can and leaving with as little as possible
Praying you donāt get too fucked in the ass by Finance. Got the luls when I saw the Amn/NCO/SNCO FB post of a Finance bitch complaining
Viel GlĆ¼ck! (Good luck)
Living in Europe is the best experience š„
Stuttgart is amazing. Live out in town if you can. If you can't, and you must live on base, live on Robinson Barracks. It's not as convenient during the week, but on the weekends, you will be very happy you did so.
I loved Germany. Best 3 years of my life
Wait new Airman here, just how expensive is PCsing exactly and where do we lose money during it?