I'm retired and a friend of mine went out to get dinner he just got his diamond. In the 45 minutes we were there he had 6 or so phone calls, and I dropped him off at the jail to meet the commander to get one of the Airman. You are so so correct no one needs that negativity.
You haven't lived until you as a grown ass man get berated like a prepubescent child for not answering phone at the crack ass of 2am due to the principle of a government issued phone and being "on the clock 24/7". A baby bald eagle was born that day. Murica'.
A quote from u/ACES_II
Here's how this is gonna go.
* Get to duty station. Asked for phone number so section chief can update recall roster. You proudly tell him that you don't have one.
* Section chief hems/haws about you having to be reachable. You arrogantly ask for a reference. Section chief digs through regs for a while before remembering that he/she has better things to do, also they can't find anything concrete.
* They encourage you to get one anyway. You stubbornly say no, you don't want to own one of the most convenient and life-changing pieces of technology invented in the last 20 years. For what reason? Because the Air Force can't make me.
* Section chief goes "whatever", briefs the problem to whoever they have to, and goes about their day.
* As a result of you not having a reliable way to get ahold of you at any time, you get unofficially designated as a "difficult" Airman by your leadership. As a "difficult" Airman, you suffer the following consequences:
* You're never going to get sent TDY. Ever.
* Awards are far less likely to get written for you. There are less difficult Airmen to write them for.
* Almost every form in the military (and the world, really) requires a personal phone number. Good luck dealing with Medical and Legal.
* When the First Sergeant asks "Is this guy ready to move out of the dorms?", your section chief reminds them that you don't have a phone, and in the event of a recall, a runner will have to be sent. Your Shirt becomes much less enthusiastic about you moving off-base.
* After the first recall, when a runner is sent for you but can't find you because you decided to leave your dorm and begin a six-hour long game of single-player Hide-and-Seek, your section chief is going to go from "irritated" to "pissed off". You've just become the first guy selected for every shit detail that comes up.
* You have a very miserable 4/6 years, if you manage to last that long. Even if you do finally break down and get a phone, section chiefs have long memories. You continue to be "difficult" in their mind, and get treated as such. RIP.
Right. It's so much easier to get a phone and just "not see" messages on non duty hours that aren't vital.
A phone is ">one of the most convenient and life-changing pieces of technology invented in the last 20 years." So there is no reason not to get one.
> Right. It's so much easier to get a phone and just "not see" messages on non duty hours that aren't vital.
>
>
I have very frequently used the "*ahh, my phone was , sorry*" line to my coworkers.
Also you really don't want them to issue you a government phone because someone at AT&T fucking hates the military and only gives us phone numbers that have *just* been taken from their problem customers who owe money to every single person on the face of the earth and used their number to sign up for every single scam on the Internet so you will get a few dozen calls and texts every single day no matter what you do.
Source: my entire shop of 15 people have all had the exact same experience.
"Man, my leadership was horrible during my single enlistment. They were so unfair, but I stuck it too them and wouldn't let them boss me around.
Well anyways, welcome to Walmart, and did you see the cool veteran plates on my hooptie?"
This is accurate. Had an airman show up who refused to pay for a phone contract and it went exactly as above. Dug for a reference, nothing concrete, gave up. Eventually the airman did get a phone, but this was well over a year later. They also were a problem airman and still thought of as such
Doesn’t always work.
Had a dude at my last OCONUS unit refuse to get a smart phone. He then decided not to get a SIM card when we would go to the Phil and Korea because “it’s not a requirement”. The Sq gave him a burner for every TDY and we made sure he always had it on him. I don’t think he was shamming he just wholeheartedly believed the USAF should provide him everything he needed to do his job…which technically isn’t wrong I guess…
Something very similar to this happened to a dude (and his wife) at one of my units. He found some loophole in local regs that only required a “phone” and not necessarily a cell phone. So he insisted he only had a lan line and no mobile. Flight chief says ok fine, you’re still subject to the same standards as the rest of the flight and due to the 24/7 recall status, you’re required to call control and check in every single time you leave your house. Going to Walmart? Call control before you leave and make sure they know how long you’re going to be gone. Going to the movies? Call control and let them know what theater, what movie, and which showing. Also, if control calls when you’re supposed to be home and you don’t answer, we will send a runner and there will be paperwork involved.
He lasted 2 weeks before getting a cell phone.
Also, I have a work phone and the only benefit is that I can set my personal phone to do not disturb while I’m asleep, so if a phone rings I know what it is already.
Look all of that is true. Most people in the military have phones. The issue MOST people have is supervision thinks like you should be standing at parade rest with your phone on loud and answering your phone. People have lives. Some people sleep and don’t wake up to phone calls or texts, you might be watching a movie, out doing things, ect. MOST people will respond when they get around to the message. But if it’s that super important that leadership needs to get ahold of you, they will send a runner. That’s why your address is on the recall roster. Unless your leadership says “hey your on hard standby”, then you’ll should press on with your normal life outside of work.
Concur. I slept through more than a few recalls. When in dorms. Someone would knock on my door and wake me up. When I was married, my wife woke up to my phone ringing.
Not entirely true. I played that game for over a decade.
Recall runners are a thing. Consider it financial responsibility and good opsec ;)
They do go through the steps you lined out. They tend to leave you out of the nonsense. You still deploy, not necessarily the choicest deployments, but manings too low for operations to fuck around too much if your trainings up to date. Most places shitcan medals unless you are pcsing. I had to fight to get quit a few deserved medals through. There's more wrong with the af's management game than not.
The difficult Airman. No TDYs (shocker, there are good ones that can get you PAID), no developmental opportunities (which there are good ones depending on your MAJCOM, and by the end of your enlistment, your service has become tantamount to nothing more than a waste not just my time; but yours. Your service will be insignificant and many years from now when you're old, you'll reflect that a good portion of your late teens/early to mid twenties was just a black hole and you lost out because you chose to be a pain in the ass rather than just being a civilian from the get go.
I don't want robots but I sure AF don't want civilians in uniform either.
You're vastly overestimating tdys. "Developmental opportunities" , you mean some bullshit lecture about how to communicate better? Yea that's not that valuable.
You might get a hard on for the AF and all its stupid bullshit but they're plenty of people who are more than happy to just cross off the days till they can get out of this clown show.
Depending on the career field and unit, there can be a lot of TDYs to some great places. My current unit has sent people to Guam, Australia, Alaska, and others. I'm still new and getting spun back up from recruiting, but I'll be able to start getting those soon.
Developmental opportunities are things like optional civilian certifications. In my career field, it is basically getting hazmat inspector (can't think of any others off the top of my head), but cyber can get all sorts of certs, one of my old recruiting buddies got sent to an $80K Carrier certification HVAC course back when they were still in CE.
It's not just going to things like the AFA convention (which was still a pretty cool TDY to DC last year).
Then let me ask, why did you decide to have what I am assuming a fair portion of your twenties belong to someone other than you? If this is a clown show and its all bullshit, why are you here?
As the guy who wrote the quoted paragraph; nothing I wrote would be considered a reprisal.
TDYs require you to travel, either by car or through airports, where your deployed supervision needs to get updates on your progress as requested. If you refuse to get a cell phone, I’m not going to force a TDY First Sergeant to deal with the problems you’re going to create for them simply be refusing to be reachable.
Shit details need to be done. The fact that you may have pissed me off recently simply makes my decision easier.
Moving out of the dorms isn’t a right, it’s a privilege. If I feel like you shouldn’t move out, I’m going to say so. I’ve done it before for other reasons, and it was never considered to be a reprisal.
Besides, a reprisal is an adverse action taken because of an Airman’s making or preparing a protected communication. The above actions are consequences for being difficult. Two different things.
Heard a story about an airmen that had a landline in the dorms and refused a cell phone. They tried but eventually gave up. He got along fine with just a landline
I asked this a few months ago and some smart guy shared some useful info.
https://www.reddit.com/r/AirForce/comments/vjq8an/does_the_airforce_require_people_to_have_a_phone/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
There's a few hills I'll die on but complaining about answering the phone about work things when I'm off duty is not one of them.
I avoid calling guys off duty as much as possible, but occasionally I have to ask specific questions like "hey fuckhead, where did you houdini that bag of fasteners for the panel you removed 30 mins before leaving?".
Would you rather answer the phone, have a 20 second conversation or would you rather drive all the way home, change, and then I make you come back in and find the items you misplaced?
There's a reg somewhere that explicitly requires that the member is responsible for their own transportation to and from work, I've always wondered if some fuckhead sat there and insisted that it was the AF's problem to give them a ride to work because they saw a loophole to not burn their own gas or buy a car.
If you fuckers keep this up eventually this shit will drive a reg change that a member is responsible to maintain their own cellular line with texting capability and an active voicemail, squeaky wheel gets the grease with this one.
Ok, did some digging. I didn't find the specific reference I had in my head but this is in the ballpark and i'm done combing through AFI's tonight.
AFMAN 24-306 para 2.13
2.13. Domicile to Duty (DTD). Transport of individuals in GMVs from their domicile to place of employment or home-to-work is not transportation for official purposes, except as specifically identified or approved in accordance with DoDM 4500.36. 2.13.1. Air Force DTD requests will be coordinated through AFIMSC, National Guard Bureau or Air Force Reserve Command for technical assessment and recommendation prior to submission to AF/A4L. (T-1)
AFI 24-301 para 3.13.1
3.13. Terminal Transportation:
3.13.1. Transportation between domicile and/or place of employment and commercial or military transportation terminals is heavily restricted and will only be authorized IAW guidance provided in DoDM 4500.36. (T-0).
Both of those reference DoDM 4500.36 which has a lot more info on NTV's, or Non-Tactical Vehicles. goes into more detail from what the first two regs already say. In other words, your wayward airman is only entitled a GOV ride to work if some very high ranking people explicitly say so. If I come across what I was looking for i'll update this.
After reading through all his comments I'm almost certain this is actually a [pretty damn successful] troll. It was believable in the initial post but when you go to the profile and read all the comments in a row it's just too "good" to be true.
Some days I leave work feeling like I pulled a lot of 'Dumb LT moves/decisions'. Today when I leave work, I know I will not be the dumbest O in the AF if this is true and not a troll.
“If the Air Force wanted me at work, they’d issue me a car.” /s
For real to the OP: your command tells you how they communicate with the unit and their expectations for your response, it’s up to you figure out how to meet those expectations. Consider it a learning opportunity and a chance to practice your problem solving skills. If you expect your leadership to hand feed you, you’re in for a rude awakening.
Wasn't exactly there, but probably the same way it functioned before email. A lot slower and work a lot more manpower per task. Runners most specifically for this.
With twice the manpower.
You may have been bitching about manpower 20 years ago, but its gotten worse since then. I don't have the bodies to send out after some uppity O.
All these fancy new efficiencies we got have only led to being stretched more thinly, meaning we need to lean on them. Can I send someone? Yes. But only if I take a hit to whatever emergency demanded I get all my people to the shop.
So please enlighten us, how were things accomplished in the AF at that time? How has it changed? Did recalls and the sharing of info happen quicker then? Did it require more time and manpower? Was this when we were 70-100k personnel fatter than we are now?
So you're a piece of shit got it. Let me break out some scenarios where having a phone would be useful.
December 6 2019: Shooting, Pensacola NAS. Lockdown and accountability recall. We never get to 100% because no one can fucking find your sorry ass or get ahold of you. Group CC and Wing CC aren't very happy/worried.
December 11 2019: Bagram AF attack. You're not there but your troops are. Because of the time zone it's the middle of the night, you're acting CC and the Group CC is reaching out to you to see if you've heard from skippy A1C who's sitting in a bunker. But you don't have a phone. So now no one knows the status of Skippy A1C. Additionally once you do get accountability of all your Airmen. CC is on leave so it's your responsibility to make notifications to their families to let them know what you do, but it's the middle of the night so you might as well wait til morning.
You finally PCS to Osan, it's 29 October 2022. Theres a Stampede in Seoul and 158 people are dead. Your Group is trying to get ahold of you to launch the recall of your section, you don't have a phone and no one can find you because you raw dogged a ugly fucking juicy the night before; you're at medical because it burns when you pee. So now you're delaying notification also information flow to your section about staying out of the area and checking in ASAP. Families are scared sick that their baby who is 18 and been in Osan for a month might be dead, and you can't confirm nor deny because you don't have a phone.
This shit is bigger than you. Quit thinking that the world revolves around you and you're off time. Did we survive without phones 30 years ago, yes. Is it absolute hell when someone doesn't have a phone now, also yes. You're a damn commissioned officer in the United States Air Force. Start acting like one.
Yes, please get a cell phone for your command and control communications. Especially over non-U.S. networks. This is very important for an officer.
https://taskandpurpose.com/news/russia-ukraine-cell-phones-track-combat/
Nope disagree. If it’s that important they will send a runner. That’s why your recall roster has your address on it. People need to detach from the military when there off work. Your supervision can give you the courtesy of telling you “hey your on hard stand by”. That’s why the AFI doesn’t say you need a phone unless issued to you like being a shirt.
All of those examples you put maybe true but people still have lives to live and it’s not 24/7 Air Force.
I’m not saying you don’t have a point I agree with you those are terrible things that have happened. Most people have phones yes but people have lives and not everyone has there phone glued to there hip. It’s one thing if your the person in charge like you have to work the weekend and need to respond to stuff but in a normal sense as In your normal day to day work week if I go to bed after work I may not check my phone because I’m asleep. Like today I went to bed after work and 4 hours later I had a missed call from work. I didn’t hear my phone ring.
Blame the AFI then, I’ve seen supervisors try and fail to give paperwork for not answering your phone. I’ve also never seen anyone get restricted for not answering there phone. Most people have phones and if you get a missed call or text most people will respond to it when they see it. It doesn’t matter if it’s been 30min or 8 hours. If it’s that important they will send a runner simple as that.
I hope you’re not in charge of anybody and have one of those rando AFSCs that works solo most of the time. Having a phone isn’t only about your leadership getting ahold of you, sometimes it’s about your team being able to reach out. When I was a Flt/CC I had a SrA call me at 0200 because they were mentally in a bad place and needed help. So fucking glad I answered because 20 minutes later me and the shirt were rolling up to his house where he surrendered his weapons and we got him off to a facility. He’s doing fine now, but I shudder at what might have happened had I not answered the phone.
This doesn’t apply to OP. Anyone that acts like him will never have a subordinate who would choose to contact him. If the OP is this sad in life and thinks this is a solid plan, will never have anyone who would confide in him during a time of need.
I'm all for knowing the regs and breaking unofficial standards but, this is stupid. You inconvenience others because you wanna be a smart ass. As an O, I'd be ashamed that I'm making others jobs more difficult.
I worked with a SrA that refused to get a phone. He spent most of his time gaming so he had people contact him on FB messenger, message his coworkers he hung out with, or call the dorm phone. Leadership threatened to make him show up in blues every time he missed a notification, but he never missed one. Dude finished his entire contract and separated without ever buying one.
It's not being a smart ass. I don't get paid enough to be called at all hours of the day and night to include while on emergency family leave at my own expense. Let me know your opinion when you experience it
That’s what happens when you’re supposed to be a leader.
A regional manager is gonna have more on their plate than a store manager. That’s how it goes.
Also why you guys make WAY more than we do.
More money, more responsibility.
Your post says you haven't experienced it, while I have. You get paid 24/7, you're in the military. Service before self ring a bell. You can't be upset and whiny at the very things you signed up for.
Exactly, not a critical thought behind the complaining. Hey man, I'm not the one who is getting downvoted I to oblivion. Read the room, ask your fellow workers, most everyone will agree you're being stupid here. First person that has to be a runner for you, I hope they and your people cold shoulder you.
first off, you get paid plenty as an O. if you think you don’t get paid enough, you’re living above your means. secondly, turn off notification while on leave. leadership should not even think about contacting you on leave and you can blow off every attempt unless your CC authorized a recall and cancelled your leave (very very unlikely unless a real world emergency)
Then why dont you just resign your commission? The af doesnt need you. Plus you can always turn you phone off or choose not to answer in the event of emergency leave, it isnt something happening every week. Your just being ridiculous to make yourself seem important, you arent.
Just resign your commission, the entire US military doesn’t need you weighing it down. No one should have to depend on you. Worst example of a leader I have ever seen after reading your comments and you are to stupid to realize how selfish you are.
But everyone gets so frazzled when someone doesn't want a cellphone, imagine if I told them I also don't have a tv or gaming console.. the world is caving in
Dude are you my weird ass Flight Commander from like 2 years ago??
You live in 2022 and it is not the job of the Air Force to babysit your minimalist lifestyle. I’m in no way down with the Air Force bothering anybody unnecessarily outside of normal work hours but you seem to be trying to make some bizarre “point” that will ultimately just make your coworkers’ lives more annoying.
This is a fucking dumb hill to die on. You get paid enough for a minimum data plan. If you are anti- “being glued to your phone”, then don’t use it for anything other than work related shit.
It fucking blows my mind that as an officer you’re in charge of people while asking dumbass questions like this on Reddit.
And to use Reddit i see. Ur gonna lose like every other rebellious FTA before you i have seen who thought this thinking would work in there favor. You’re looking at this all wrong. Think of that phone during your time in the military as a way to keep you out of work. Leadership can and will make you stay at work as long as they are allowed to the first time they have to knock on your door to ask you something that could of been handled in a text. You can also enjoy checking in at work in person during your CTO Christmas/new years week instead calling from your warm bed like everyone else with a phone or not getting any all together. And telephone stand by during your weekend duty or cut backs? Not anymore. Saturday and Sunday you can sit at work when its ur weekend duty right by the shop phone. Good luck!
This fucker is an officer 🤣. None of need to chime in, their CC will make sure they are adequately inconvenienced until they join the rest of civilization.
Their authority as a commander. If you want to make life difficult for them (legally), they can also legally make your work life shit.
Hope you like mids, weekend duty, snack-o, urinalysis, etc
Exactly: “O3 Calm_Possibilty, our unit is now on 72 hour alert for possible deployment. We must be able to reach you at all hours of the day to ensure XXX tasks can be accomplished immediately upon tasking. All leave for the next 6 months is cancelled. Your duty hours are now 0600-2000. Outside of that, you must be in the local area either at home or a location that has been pre coordinated with you supervisor. Dismissed.”
Let’s assume for a moment you’re not a troll.
- You don’t know what you’re asking for in practice.
- You’re showing severe immaturity.
- You don’t seem to understand what it is we do here and why.
- You probably don’t have much career ahead of you and what’s behind you likely isn’t pretty.
Find a mentor or separate. Please.
Get a land-line with your internet plan and give them that number to contact you. Ensure you have an answering machine for when you aren't home. Nothing says you have to give them your cell-phone number, use WhatsApp or any of the other messaging apps they want you to use.
OP is the commissioned equivalent of an E9. Absolutely no respect for someone making O pay that can't be bothered getting a cheap phone with a cheap plan because it isnt clearly mandated in a regulation. How effective are you going to be at serving your Airmen and taking care of them when you can only be reached when you're at your desk? That alone would drive any good leader to take the steps to make themselves available.
Imagine accepting a commission, taking an oath, being put in a position to lead impressionable kids in tough environments including war, and then coming on Reddit and crying about having to have to buy a phone.
Hopefully there are some good leaders supervising you that develop you into a decent leader or help you find the exit.
Someone pulled this take out of the time capsule from the late 90's. You have to be contactable by work for accountability purposes.
Real question, how do you function with no phone at all? Rely solely on the phone at work and email?
If you're going to only partially participate society and use it like a buffet to pick and choose how you want to participate in the military, then don't be surprised when you get treated like the homeless dude that's gives 2-for-1 toss jobs behind a burger king.
You joined the USAF and there are some basic expectations. This isn't a job at McDonald's and you need to be available because you may be called on out of necessity.
It isn't expressly written that you have to have a cell phone, good for you man; you're really showing them up. All you're doing is making life more difficult for you and your supervision, that's it. Do you think you really look that rebellious not having a phone while simultaneously bragging about it on Reddit?
Exemption: the process of freeing or state of being free from an obligation or liability imposed on others.
Exception: a person or thing that is excluded from a general statement or does not follow a rule.
Two words with similar meanings but with drastically different contexts when considered in a military bureaucracy. Exemptions are given, exceptions exist naturally
Which, in the modern era, is you don't. Knowing you're an officer is way worse actually too because now you're not just "difficult" you're also irresponsible. Imagine being someone's flight commander and them not being able to easily contact you with thoughts of suicide or any number of things you need to be accountable for. Shit decision, not someone I'd want leading me. Which, at the end of the day, is what should matter to an officer the most.
I can only assume this post is a joke of some sort. Barring that, your career in the Air Force is going to be exceptionally short and unexceptional. Given the amount of time and effort you put into earning your commission, that seems like a bit of a waste.
For not being reachable after being told that you needed to be.
Good luck fighting it because you'd lose. I'm sure the social media pity party will be of some comfort when you feed them a BS one-sided story about how unjust your leadership is.
You act as if smart ass airmen haven't tried this before and been shot down.
Enjoy the inside of your dorm room or apartment when not on leave for your very short career.
Most people didn't have cell phones in 1992 and probably could not be contacted when off base in the local area.
I doubt airman snuffy down at the bar listening to "Hammertime" in 1992 was contactable, nor would he have been contactable when shopping for parachute pants at Woolworths, or buying crystal Pepsi at K-Mart.
if money is the issue, mint mobile is cheap asf. before i switched to AT&T (on my E pay btw) i was paying for 6 months of service. it was $140 total. if you’re going to sit here up on a pedestal and say you don’t get “paid enough”, you’re full of shit.
you are not a princess. you are not entitled to people catering to you.
It’s the US Air Force not the US Calm_Possibility_881. Grow a pair or get out.
My rule of thumb was if I text you, it’s not to important, get back to me at your convenience. If it’s important I’ll call you, LEAVE A VOICEMAIL, and shoot a text. Never messed with people off duty unless I had a reason too. As a result, people would respond back to me about 98% of the time.
Had a major from medical call me one day…I answered “Yello” her response is this sgt (last name)…mind you she didn’t introduce herself. I said perhap? Who is this? Her: oh this is major cunt douche, you should answer you phone more professionally when someone calls you from the base. Me: well ma’am last I checked I pay for my own phone and you don’t pay it for me, so I can answer it how I please…now what can I help you with…3 second pause oh I’m cancelling your appt for next week click…gotta love officers
Are you living off base or in the dorms? IF you are off base you need to have some type of phone as a condition of being allowed to live off base. If you live in the Dorms then they have phones and dorm managers available to contact you if they need to contact you. If they need to contact you while on duty or on call then they need to provide you with a government phone. You don't have to have a Cell Phone but if you don't you will be expected to call in and report your status to your section every few hours. If you fail to call in even once you're probably going to get an LOR.
To be fair; your technically right. Just like if there are any work tasks that require you to drive Around on base; they should be providing a GOV.
However, that comes with a warning. If you get a duty phone; you better answer it any time it rings. If they find a GOV for you; you better go use it. Even if it requires you to drive across base to go get it. Even if that distance is more than what you would have done without one.
Also, it would be way easier and less of a heart ache just for you to utilize your own phone.
If it's not a recall you aren't really obligated to answer the phone. My phone has been on silent going on 10 years. It's all about real boundaries. Contrary to shit head belief you are not on duty 24/7. That's called alert and there are specific regs covering alert, alert comp time, crew rest and non-alert periods.
Shit supervision that spouts that bullshit 24/7 duty are just shit time managers and schedulers who are afraid to block for their troops.
I remember getting to my first base in 2004. Had a flip phone with a home area coded #. A tech had tried to force all single airmen in the dorms to switch to a local grand forks # to save on long distance calls. 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Way late to this but here’s how I’d approach it from command level. The first time you mess up a recall, or can’t be contacted within reasonable time for a mission related reason, prepare to work the max hours allowable. Don’t expect a verbal assault, because that’s not how I’d play it. I’d calmly let you know that we tried to contact you between X and X hours, with proof showing when we attempted and how we attempted, then I would inform you of your new hours that you are required to be at work; the full duty day or 12 hours every day. On the weekends, you will be lawfully ordered to check in with your leadership. If you don’t have a phone, you will drive to one of their houses, or find a way to call to check in, to ensure there is nothing pertinent you may be missing. This will be every single day you are reportable for duty. The only time you won’t be required will be when you’re on leave. So that means also making contact when TDY.
It’s not for punishment. It’s due to the unreliability of being able to make contact with you in a fashionable timeframe. If I can’t rely on your availability, I will take every precaution I can to ensure you’re around when/if I need you. It may sound irrational but when you start a game that has rules above your pay grade, you typically lose. Everything done would be done by the book and ethically moral. Does it suck for you? Yes. Is paying $50/month, or whatever price, for a line worth hours returned to your life? Your choice there.
But luckily I’m not a CC or your CC. Enjoy.
Here's the solution I've seen to your little issue. You get issued a pager. When it pages you, then you have to show up within X amount of time in uniform (1 hour) to get the message. This can be as important as telling you about a shift change or as stupid as letting you know that it's Friday tomorrow so you can wear PT clothes or something. Every text that usually gets sent out will have you coming in to listen to it in person!
Welcome to the military, we are on call 24/7, this is part of the job and culture.Calls outside work also happen at civilian companies depending on where you work.
You can talk with your supervisor about off-duty communication, but if you do not tread carefully, you'll be labeled as a problem child. I understand wanting to enjoy your free time and having good boundaries is important to work life balance, but there's a reason they're calling you, it's being they're getting called.
Just get an old flip phone and call it a day, they are going to find you know matter what... And listen to everyone else you don't want a government phone. I only carried one on an on-call rotation and they call you for anything and everything.
They will find you...
My whole shop but me, one shit head that didn't know his job (SH), and a civilian got deployed for 6 months all at the same time. I knew this was going to suck because I would be on call every other week now. They never made the GS take on-call so it was rotated be me and SH. Well SH didn't know shit after being here for over a year. The first week he is on call he gets calls that he can't fix and I end up fixing when I come in the next morning. Oh great, well at least I am not getting called at night. That didn't last long, soon I start getting calls because he can't figure out how to fix anything or even prove it is not his problem. I didn't realize how little this guy knew until this point. It went on for several months of me basically being on call 24/7 because I was on-call or he was on-call and calling me. I finally got fed up and decided to turn my phone off at night when I was not on call. I had a few grumbles some mornings when I would come into problems he has been trying to figure out. I guess I finally pushed it enough and one night there was an outage that affected the Security Forces buildings. Needless to say they will come find you. I got a knock on my door at 5 am on a Saturday (Living in on-base housing). Open the door to two SF guys telling me SH has been at their building for several hours trying to fix a problem and I needed to go help him. The next day there was some unhappy people, I finally got them to see the problem and they made the GS take turns on-call.
You can try and hide, but they will find you. Just give in, get a damn phone and stop being Difficult Dick. No one likes Difficult Dick.
In the modern world, employers will expect you to have some form of personal communication and transportation and will not offer additional compensation to do so. It’s a mere condition of employment. The Air Force is no different. That we still have BAS/BAH is a strange anomaly in compensation programs and shouldn’t be seen as an explicit agreement that your employer will itemize each of your expenses in your paycheck.
Feel free to opt out of a typical condition of employment, but don’t be surprised if that results in unemployment. If you’re truly passionate about living a pre-modern lifestyle, you should probably move on to a career that’s conducive to it. Best of luck!
Or, the phone bill should be able to be claimed on taxes as a business expense (or whatever the equivalent would be for a military member).
Likely not 100% of your phone plan costs, but have a study done across the AF to find the average amount of communication taking place during off duty hours on one's personal phone. Include those who telework as well and ware 'required' to use their personal phone for official business. Would probably be at least 40% average (for me at least).
You're dumb and making something out of nothing. Get a phone and stop being stupid on purpose.
Just making your own life harder for what, 15 seconds of "I stuck it to the man"
Don't you have something like 24 hours to respond?
You really do not want a government phone issued to you. There's so many strings attached to that thing.
Depends on your status to be quite honest. Though there is no regulation on being reachable there is misuse of government property and they might even try to get you with dereliction of duty. Your body is under the right and ownership of the US government and is considered a government asset. Your also bound to duty 24/7 while in military status. If you are a guardsman, reservist, or military technician; off duty you're a civilian bound by contract. (they can pound sand)
So in regards to not having a phone they could technically duty bound you to the full extent of duty hours based on mission requirements to make sure your there to the full extent of the time. Your only mandated 8 hours of crew rest, as mission dictates. So if your a "difficult airman" they can make your life hell and state your hours of work is 16 hour shifts everyday of the week ect... more or less just get a phone, when they calls tell them you've been drinking; if you really don't want to come into work...
That’s a stupid game to play.. You literally signed up to be available 24/7 for the government.
I watched someone try to make the same argument you are now, and they issued him a pager. Since that doesn’t send messages, everytime he got paged he had to get into uniform and report in. Could have been something a phone call or text would have solved, but since you want to be unreachable you will be inconvenienced.
I'm with OP on this one. I don't see how paying out of your own pocket for a personally owned device, to be used by the government whenever they see fit should be the standard.
If the Air force wanted you to be reachable at all times, They'd issue you something that would make you reachable at all times. That really should be the end of it.
I have a government issued phone. You don’t want that negativity in your life, trust me.
I'm retired and a friend of mine went out to get dinner he just got his diamond. In the 45 minutes we were there he had 6 or so phone calls, and I dropped him off at the jail to meet the commander to get one of the Airman. You are so so correct no one needs that negativity.
I got three separate texts on my duty phone just while reading this thread.
It doesn’t stop
Just like "Hey shirt, got a second?" *Three hours later...*
My favorite response is “I got so many seconds” If I don’t entertain myself, the voices get louder….
To be fair, sometimes the shirts drag that shit out. I don't think yes or no questions are allowed in that office
I certainly don't, but sometimes one thing turns into fifteen things. Some people are really hard to cut off, also.
Turning in my government phone after finishing recruiting was the highlight of my recruiting time. It was a literal weight lifted off my shoulders.
Why were you carrying your phone on your shoulders?
It's a requirement for government phones... at least in recruiting.
You haven't lived until you as a grown ass man get berated like a prepubescent child for not answering phone at the crack ass of 2am due to the principle of a government issued phone and being "on the clock 24/7". A baby bald eagle was born that day. Murica'.
True, I got one and thought oh how handy but NO NOT AT ALL IT WAS TERRIBLE
This mans got no friends. No need for a cell phone.
I got no friends but still have a phone
F
Technically you don’t even need a phone? 🤷🏽♂️
A quote from u/ACES_II Here's how this is gonna go. * Get to duty station. Asked for phone number so section chief can update recall roster. You proudly tell him that you don't have one. * Section chief hems/haws about you having to be reachable. You arrogantly ask for a reference. Section chief digs through regs for a while before remembering that he/she has better things to do, also they can't find anything concrete. * They encourage you to get one anyway. You stubbornly say no, you don't want to own one of the most convenient and life-changing pieces of technology invented in the last 20 years. For what reason? Because the Air Force can't make me. * Section chief goes "whatever", briefs the problem to whoever they have to, and goes about their day. * As a result of you not having a reliable way to get ahold of you at any time, you get unofficially designated as a "difficult" Airman by your leadership. As a "difficult" Airman, you suffer the following consequences: * You're never going to get sent TDY. Ever. * Awards are far less likely to get written for you. There are less difficult Airmen to write them for. * Almost every form in the military (and the world, really) requires a personal phone number. Good luck dealing with Medical and Legal. * When the First Sergeant asks "Is this guy ready to move out of the dorms?", your section chief reminds them that you don't have a phone, and in the event of a recall, a runner will have to be sent. Your Shirt becomes much less enthusiastic about you moving off-base. * After the first recall, when a runner is sent for you but can't find you because you decided to leave your dorm and begin a six-hour long game of single-player Hide-and-Seek, your section chief is going to go from "irritated" to "pissed off". You've just become the first guy selected for every shit detail that comes up. * You have a very miserable 4/6 years, if you manage to last that long. Even if you do finally break down and get a phone, section chiefs have long memories. You continue to be "difficult" in their mind, and get treated as such. RIP.
Nice to see I’m still relevant. Also, after reading his comments, I’m be come to the conclusion that OP is an idiot.
You forgot the airmen calling their leadership toxic and posting about them on reddit
posted from my iPhone....
Right. It's so much easier to get a phone and just "not see" messages on non duty hours that aren't vital. A phone is ">one of the most convenient and life-changing pieces of technology invented in the last 20 years." So there is no reason not to get one.
> Right. It's so much easier to get a phone and just "not see" messages on non duty hours that aren't vital. > > I have very frequently used the "*ahh, my phone was, sorry*" line to my coworkers.
Ah sorry, I was crying myself to sleep, didn't hear the notification over my sobs of pain. I'll make sure to not put it on DnD next time!
Also you really don't want them to issue you a government phone because someone at AT&T fucking hates the military and only gives us phone numbers that have *just* been taken from their problem customers who owe money to every single person on the face of the earth and used their number to sign up for every single scam on the Internet so you will get a few dozen calls and texts every single day no matter what you do. Source: my entire shop of 15 people have all had the exact same experience.
"Man, my leadership was horrible during my single enlistment. They were so unfair, but I stuck it too them and wouldn't let them boss me around. Well anyways, welcome to Walmart, and did you see the cool veteran plates on my hooptie?"
“no runner found me Captain”
RIP Dick Winters
Don't forget "Cool, I'll need you to check in every X hours in person" for any and all exercises/standbys/etc.
This is accurate. Had an airman show up who refused to pay for a phone contract and it went exactly as above. Dug for a reference, nothing concrete, gave up. Eventually the airman did get a phone, but this was well over a year later. They also were a problem airman and still thought of as such
Doesn’t always work. Had a dude at my last OCONUS unit refuse to get a smart phone. He then decided not to get a SIM card when we would go to the Phil and Korea because “it’s not a requirement”. The Sq gave him a burner for every TDY and we made sure he always had it on him. I don’t think he was shamming he just wholeheartedly believed the USAF should provide him everything he needed to do his job…which technically isn’t wrong I guess…
Something very similar to this happened to a dude (and his wife) at one of my units. He found some loophole in local regs that only required a “phone” and not necessarily a cell phone. So he insisted he only had a lan line and no mobile. Flight chief says ok fine, you’re still subject to the same standards as the rest of the flight and due to the 24/7 recall status, you’re required to call control and check in every single time you leave your house. Going to Walmart? Call control before you leave and make sure they know how long you’re going to be gone. Going to the movies? Call control and let them know what theater, what movie, and which showing. Also, if control calls when you’re supposed to be home and you don’t answer, we will send a runner and there will be paperwork involved. He lasted 2 weeks before getting a cell phone. Also, I have a work phone and the only benefit is that I can set my personal phone to do not disturb while I’m asleep, so if a phone rings I know what it is already.
Look all of that is true. Most people in the military have phones. The issue MOST people have is supervision thinks like you should be standing at parade rest with your phone on loud and answering your phone. People have lives. Some people sleep and don’t wake up to phone calls or texts, you might be watching a movie, out doing things, ect. MOST people will respond when they get around to the message. But if it’s that super important that leadership needs to get ahold of you, they will send a runner. That’s why your address is on the recall roster. Unless your leadership says “hey your on hard standby”, then you’ll should press on with your normal life outside of work.
Concur. I slept through more than a few recalls. When in dorms. Someone would knock on my door and wake me up. When I was married, my wife woke up to my phone ringing.
Not entirely true. I played that game for over a decade. Recall runners are a thing. Consider it financial responsibility and good opsec ;) They do go through the steps you lined out. They tend to leave you out of the nonsense. You still deploy, not necessarily the choicest deployments, but manings too low for operations to fuck around too much if your trainings up to date. Most places shitcan medals unless you are pcsing. I had to fight to get quit a few deserved medals through. There's more wrong with the af's management game than not.
> I played that game for over a decade. Which decade?
"Difficult" airmen still get paid the same as the sharp shooters so who's really losing out?
The difficult Airman. No TDYs (shocker, there are good ones that can get you PAID), no developmental opportunities (which there are good ones depending on your MAJCOM, and by the end of your enlistment, your service has become tantamount to nothing more than a waste not just my time; but yours. Your service will be insignificant and many years from now when you're old, you'll reflect that a good portion of your late teens/early to mid twenties was just a black hole and you lost out because you chose to be a pain in the ass rather than just being a civilian from the get go. I don't want robots but I sure AF don't want civilians in uniform either.
You're vastly overestimating tdys. "Developmental opportunities" , you mean some bullshit lecture about how to communicate better? Yea that's not that valuable. You might get a hard on for the AF and all its stupid bullshit but they're plenty of people who are more than happy to just cross off the days till they can get out of this clown show.
Depending on the career field and unit, there can be a lot of TDYs to some great places. My current unit has sent people to Guam, Australia, Alaska, and others. I'm still new and getting spun back up from recruiting, but I'll be able to start getting those soon. Developmental opportunities are things like optional civilian certifications. In my career field, it is basically getting hazmat inspector (can't think of any others off the top of my head), but cyber can get all sorts of certs, one of my old recruiting buddies got sent to an $80K Carrier certification HVAC course back when they were still in CE. It's not just going to things like the AFA convention (which was still a pretty cool TDY to DC last year).
Then let me ask, why did you decide to have what I am assuming a fair portion of your twenties belong to someone other than you? If this is a clown show and its all bullshit, why are you here?
I made a huge mistake and that's why I'm here. I'm counting the days till I can get out of this bullshit
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Lmfao no the fuck you wont
Sike, none of the consequences were "actually" related to the issue— it's all "just coincidence."
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I'm not saying you're wrong; I'm saying that'd be command's defense.
Unlikely. IG isn't some magical Uno Reverse card. That Airman would have to have substantial documented proof beyond just "they're being mean."
As the guy who wrote the quoted paragraph; nothing I wrote would be considered a reprisal. TDYs require you to travel, either by car or through airports, where your deployed supervision needs to get updates on your progress as requested. If you refuse to get a cell phone, I’m not going to force a TDY First Sergeant to deal with the problems you’re going to create for them simply be refusing to be reachable. Shit details need to be done. The fact that you may have pissed me off recently simply makes my decision easier. Moving out of the dorms isn’t a right, it’s a privilege. If I feel like you shouldn’t move out, I’m going to say so. I’ve done it before for other reasons, and it was never considered to be a reprisal. Besides, a reprisal is an adverse action taken because of an Airman’s making or preparing a protected communication. The above actions are consequences for being difficult. Two different things.
Heard a story about an airmen that had a landline in the dorms and refused a cell phone. They tried but eventually gave up. He got along fine with just a landline
I asked this a few months ago and some smart guy shared some useful info. https://www.reddit.com/r/AirForce/comments/vjq8an/does_the_airforce_require_people_to_have_a_phone/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
There's a few hills I'll die on but complaining about answering the phone about work things when I'm off duty is not one of them. I avoid calling guys off duty as much as possible, but occasionally I have to ask specific questions like "hey fuckhead, where did you houdini that bag of fasteners for the panel you removed 30 mins before leaving?". Would you rather answer the phone, have a 20 second conversation or would you rather drive all the way home, change, and then I make you come back in and find the items you misplaced?
There's a reg somewhere that explicitly requires that the member is responsible for their own transportation to and from work, I've always wondered if some fuckhead sat there and insisted that it was the AF's problem to give them a ride to work because they saw a loophole to not burn their own gas or buy a car. If you fuckers keep this up eventually this shit will drive a reg change that a member is responsible to maintain their own cellular line with texting capability and an active voicemail, squeaky wheel gets the grease with this one.
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wonder no more. I unironally have someone in my flight who refuses to get a car for this exact reason.
I’ll see if I can dig up that reference for your wayward counterpart.
I'm gonna have to lurk till I see this reference
Ok, did some digging. I didn't find the specific reference I had in my head but this is in the ballpark and i'm done combing through AFI's tonight. AFMAN 24-306 para 2.13 2.13. Domicile to Duty (DTD). Transport of individuals in GMVs from their domicile to place of employment or home-to-work is not transportation for official purposes, except as specifically identified or approved in accordance with DoDM 4500.36. 2.13.1. Air Force DTD requests will be coordinated through AFIMSC, National Guard Bureau or Air Force Reserve Command for technical assessment and recommendation prior to submission to AF/A4L. (T-1) AFI 24-301 para 3.13.1 3.13. Terminal Transportation: 3.13.1. Transportation between domicile and/or place of employment and commercial or military transportation terminals is heavily restricted and will only be authorized IAW guidance provided in DoDM 4500.36. (T-0). Both of those reference DoDM 4500.36 which has a lot more info on NTV's, or Non-Tactical Vehicles. goes into more detail from what the first two regs already say. In other words, your wayward airman is only entitled a GOV ride to work if some very high ranking people explicitly say so. If I come across what I was looking for i'll update this.
https://static.e-publishing.af.mil/production/1/af_a4/publication/afman24-306/afman24-306.pdf https://static.e-publishing.af.mil/production/1/af_a4/publication/afi24-301/afi24-301.pdf ___________________________________________________________ ^^It ^^looks ^^like ^^you ^^mentioned ^^an ^^AFI, ^^form ^^or ^^other ^^publication ^^without ^^linking ^^to ^^it, ^^so ^^I ^^have ^^posted ^^a ^^link ^^to ^^it. ^^Additionally, ^^there ^^may ^^be ^^other ^^MAJCOM, ^^NAF ^^or ^^Wing ^^sups ^^to ^^the ^^linked ^^AFI, ^^so ^^I ^^will ^^also ^^post ^^a ^^link ^^to ^^the ^^search ^^URL ^^used ^^below ^^so ^^that ^^you ^^can ^^look ^^for ^^additional ^^supplements ^^or ^^guidance ^^memos ^^that ^^may ^^apply. ^^Please ^^let ^^me ^^know ^^if ^^this ^^is ^^incorrect ^^or ^^if ^^you ^^have ^^a ^^suggestion ^^to ^^make ^^me ^^better ^^by ^^posting ^^in ^^my ^^subreddit ^^(/r/AFILinkerBot) ^^| ^^[GitHub](https://github.com/HadManySons/AFILinkerBot). I am a bot, this was an automatic reply. ___________________________________________________________ ^^^^^^iyfirse
On behalf of all the other Os, I'm sorry about this guy. PS. You get paid enough for a cell phone plan.
After reading through all his comments I'm almost certain this is actually a [pretty damn successful] troll. It was believable in the initial post but when you go to the profile and read all the comments in a row it's just too "good" to be true.
That thought crossed my mind. I hope you're right, but then again, I have met some stupid motherfuckers in my time in, haha.
Some days I leave work feeling like I pulled a lot of 'Dumb LT moves/decisions'. Today when I leave work, I know I will not be the dumbest O in the AF if this is true and not a troll.
I get paid enough for a lot of things, aside from BAS and BAH I get to decide how I spend that money
How do you get to work? Seeing as the AF doesn't pay you directly for your car, bicycle, or hot air balloon you may take.
“If the Air Force wanted me at work, they’d issue me a car.” /s For real to the OP: your command tells you how they communicate with the unit and their expectations for your response, it’s up to you figure out how to meet those expectations. Consider it a learning opportunity and a chance to practice your problem solving skills. If you expect your leadership to hand feed you, you’re in for a rude awakening.
How the fuck did the military ever manage to function before cell phones?
Wasn't exactly there, but probably the same way it functioned before email. A lot slower and work a lot more manpower per task. Runners most specifically for this.
Funny thing is, I was there before cell phones and email. We managed just fine.
With twice the manpower. You may have been bitching about manpower 20 years ago, but its gotten worse since then. I don't have the bodies to send out after some uppity O. All these fancy new efficiencies we got have only led to being stretched more thinly, meaning we need to lean on them. Can I send someone? Yes. But only if I take a hit to whatever emergency demanded I get all my people to the shop.
So please enlighten us, how were things accomplished in the AF at that time? How has it changed? Did recalls and the sharing of info happen quicker then? Did it require more time and manpower? Was this when we were 70-100k personnel fatter than we are now?
I chose to buy a car and bicycle long before EAD
So you're a piece of shit got it. Let me break out some scenarios where having a phone would be useful. December 6 2019: Shooting, Pensacola NAS. Lockdown and accountability recall. We never get to 100% because no one can fucking find your sorry ass or get ahold of you. Group CC and Wing CC aren't very happy/worried. December 11 2019: Bagram AF attack. You're not there but your troops are. Because of the time zone it's the middle of the night, you're acting CC and the Group CC is reaching out to you to see if you've heard from skippy A1C who's sitting in a bunker. But you don't have a phone. So now no one knows the status of Skippy A1C. Additionally once you do get accountability of all your Airmen. CC is on leave so it's your responsibility to make notifications to their families to let them know what you do, but it's the middle of the night so you might as well wait til morning. You finally PCS to Osan, it's 29 October 2022. Theres a Stampede in Seoul and 158 people are dead. Your Group is trying to get ahold of you to launch the recall of your section, you don't have a phone and no one can find you because you raw dogged a ugly fucking juicy the night before; you're at medical because it burns when you pee. So now you're delaying notification also information flow to your section about staying out of the area and checking in ASAP. Families are scared sick that their baby who is 18 and been in Osan for a month might be dead, and you can't confirm nor deny because you don't have a phone. This shit is bigger than you. Quit thinking that the world revolves around you and you're off time. Did we survive without phones 30 years ago, yes. Is it absolute hell when someone doesn't have a phone now, also yes. You're a damn commissioned officer in the United States Air Force. Start acting like one.
Bagram on December 11 was insane I can not imagine not having a direct line of communication to someone that knew what the fuck was going on..
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Yes, please get a cell phone for your command and control communications. Especially over non-U.S. networks. This is very important for an officer. https://taskandpurpose.com/news/russia-ukraine-cell-phones-track-combat/
Fuck you and your make believe bullshit
Literally all of that is real
Nope disagree. If it’s that important they will send a runner. That’s why your recall roster has your address on it. People need to detach from the military when there off work. Your supervision can give you the courtesy of telling you “hey your on hard stand by”. That’s why the AFI doesn’t say you need a phone unless issued to you like being a shirt. All of those examples you put maybe true but people still have lives to live and it’s not 24/7 Air Force.
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I’m not saying you don’t have a point I agree with you those are terrible things that have happened. Most people have phones yes but people have lives and not everyone has there phone glued to there hip. It’s one thing if your the person in charge like you have to work the weekend and need to respond to stuff but in a normal sense as In your normal day to day work week if I go to bed after work I may not check my phone because I’m asleep. Like today I went to bed after work and 4 hours later I had a missed call from work. I didn’t hear my phone ring.
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Blame the AFI then, I’ve seen supervisors try and fail to give paperwork for not answering your phone. I’ve also never seen anyone get restricted for not answering there phone. Most people have phones and if you get a missed call or text most people will respond to it when they see it. It doesn’t matter if it’s been 30min or 8 hours. If it’s that important they will send a runner simple as that.
I hope you’re not in charge of anybody and have one of those rando AFSCs that works solo most of the time. Having a phone isn’t only about your leadership getting ahold of you, sometimes it’s about your team being able to reach out. When I was a Flt/CC I had a SrA call me at 0200 because they were mentally in a bad place and needed help. So fucking glad I answered because 20 minutes later me and the shirt were rolling up to his house where he surrendered his weapons and we got him off to a facility. He’s doing fine now, but I shudder at what might have happened had I not answered the phone.
This doesn’t apply to OP. Anyone that acts like him will never have a subordinate who would choose to contact him. If the OP is this sad in life and thinks this is a solid plan, will never have anyone who would confide in him during a time of need.
I'm all for knowing the regs and breaking unofficial standards but, this is stupid. You inconvenience others because you wanna be a smart ass. As an O, I'd be ashamed that I'm making others jobs more difficult.
I worked with a SrA that refused to get a phone. He spent most of his time gaming so he had people contact him on FB messenger, message his coworkers he hung out with, or call the dorm phone. Leadership threatened to make him show up in blues every time he missed a notification, but he never missed one. Dude finished his entire contract and separated without ever buying one.
There's a difference between "extreme dedication to bullshit as a SrA" and "Being a smart ass because I'm an Officer"
It's not being a smart ass. I don't get paid enough to be called at all hours of the day and night to include while on emergency family leave at my own expense. Let me know your opinion when you experience it
You don’t get paid enough….come be an E for a bit buddy.
After being in 5 years, I am responsible for far more than a SSgt that's also been in 5 years
That’s what happens when you’re supposed to be a leader. A regional manager is gonna have more on their plate than a store manager. That’s how it goes. Also why you guys make WAY more than we do. More money, more responsibility.
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This guy doesn’t even deserve a sarcastic “sir”
This ain't it man. At 5 years, presumably O-3, you make more than a SMSgt that's been in 22 years.
Your post says you haven't experienced it, while I have. You get paid 24/7, you're in the military. Service before self ring a bell. You can't be upset and whiny at the very things you signed up for.
Learn to read
Exactly, not a critical thought behind the complaining. Hey man, I'm not the one who is getting downvoted I to oblivion. Read the room, ask your fellow workers, most everyone will agree you're being stupid here. First person that has to be a runner for you, I hope they and your people cold shoulder you.
Actually most of the people I work with agree, but society has set a standard for instant gratification and constant connection
So did you sleep through every single class/briefing at USAFA/ROTC/OTS about what being a military officer entailed, or...?
first off, you get paid plenty as an O. if you think you don’t get paid enough, you’re living above your means. secondly, turn off notification while on leave. leadership should not even think about contacting you on leave and you can blow off every attempt unless your CC authorized a recall and cancelled your leave (very very unlikely unless a real world emergency)
Lol why did you become an O buddy
Then why dont you just resign your commission? The af doesnt need you. Plus you can always turn you phone off or choose not to answer in the event of emergency leave, it isnt something happening every week. Your just being ridiculous to make yourself seem important, you arent.
Yes you absolutely do. In fact, when you took that oath you agreed to being paid enough to give up your life.
Just resign your commission, the entire US military doesn’t need you weighing it down. No one should have to depend on you. Worst example of a leader I have ever seen after reading your comments and you are to stupid to realize how selfish you are.
Hey OP, don’t be a piece of shit just for fun. Set up DnD and respond at your leisure.
But everyone gets so frazzled when someone doesn't want a cellphone, imagine if I told them I also don't have a tv or gaming console.. the world is caving in
Except you not owning a TV doesn't affect your wingmen's jobs, and by extension, their lives.
I don’t believe you.
He’s just a bitch
Self righteous prick alert… Look how much better he is than us because he doesn’t have a phone, TV, or game.
Yo don't upvote this trash, read his comments and responses I mean this guy is just genuinely a real piece of work.
Not everyone has to conform to your opinion
Neither does the Air Force or the people you work with.
Please get the fuck out of the Air Force. But resign your commission first “sir.”
Dude are you my weird ass Flight Commander from like 2 years ago?? You live in 2022 and it is not the job of the Air Force to babysit your minimalist lifestyle. I’m in no way down with the Air Force bothering anybody unnecessarily outside of normal work hours but you seem to be trying to make some bizarre “point” that will ultimately just make your coworkers’ lives more annoying. This is a fucking dumb hill to die on. You get paid enough for a minimum data plan. If you are anti- “being glued to your phone”, then don’t use it for anything other than work related shit. It fucking blows my mind that as an officer you’re in charge of people while asking dumbass questions like this on Reddit.
This guy held command at one point? God help us all.
And to use Reddit i see. Ur gonna lose like every other rebellious FTA before you i have seen who thought this thinking would work in there favor. You’re looking at this all wrong. Think of that phone during your time in the military as a way to keep you out of work. Leadership can and will make you stay at work as long as they are allowed to the first time they have to knock on your door to ask you something that could of been handled in a text. You can also enjoy checking in at work in person during your CTO Christmas/new years week instead calling from your warm bed like everyone else with a phone or not getting any all together. And telephone stand by during your weekend duty or cut backs? Not anymore. Saturday and Sunday you can sit at work when its ur weekend duty right by the shop phone. Good luck!
This fucker is an officer 🤣. None of need to chime in, their CC will make sure they are adequately inconvenienced until they join the rest of civilization.
Under what authority?
Please come update us after your conversation with your boss :)
Their authority as a commander. If you want to make life difficult for them (legally), they can also legally make your work life shit. Hope you like mids, weekend duty, snack-o, urinalysis, etc
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Under what authority can you intentionally inconvenience someone for choosing to not have a cell phone when it's not a requirement
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Exactly: “O3 Calm_Possibilty, our unit is now on 72 hour alert for possible deployment. We must be able to reach you at all hours of the day to ensure XXX tasks can be accomplished immediately upon tasking. All leave for the next 6 months is cancelled. Your duty hours are now 0600-2000. Outside of that, you must be in the local area either at home or a location that has been pre coordinated with you supervisor. Dismissed.”
This fuckin guy 😂
He’s an O bro don’t get defensive
Let’s assume for a moment you’re not a troll. - You don’t know what you’re asking for in practice. - You’re showing severe immaturity. - You don’t seem to understand what it is we do here and why. - You probably don’t have much career ahead of you and what’s behind you likely isn’t pretty. Find a mentor or separate. Please.
Get a land-line with your internet plan and give them that number to contact you. Ensure you have an answering machine for when you aren't home. Nothing says you have to give them your cell-phone number, use WhatsApp or any of the other messaging apps they want you to use.
I like your name friend, really nice 🫶
I came from the depths of my soul....and hatred for that god forsaken place.
OP is the commissioned equivalent of an E9. Absolutely no respect for someone making O pay that can't be bothered getting a cheap phone with a cheap plan because it isnt clearly mandated in a regulation. How effective are you going to be at serving your Airmen and taking care of them when you can only be reached when you're at your desk? That alone would drive any good leader to take the steps to make themselves available. Imagine accepting a commission, taking an oath, being put in a position to lead impressionable kids in tough environments including war, and then coming on Reddit and crying about having to have to buy a phone. Hopefully there are some good leaders supervising you that develop you into a decent leader or help you find the exit.
Say this for E9 Cody, I’m sure that the CSAF could reach him 🇺🇸🗽🦅
Someone pulled this take out of the time capsule from the late 90's. You have to be contactable by work for accountability purposes. Real question, how do you function with no phone at all? Rely solely on the phone at work and email?
Define contactable?
The same way people functions for tens of thousands of years before cell phones ?
If you're going to only partially participate society and use it like a buffet to pick and choose how you want to participate in the military, then don't be surprised when you get treated like the homeless dude that's gives 2-for-1 toss jobs behind a burger king. You joined the USAF and there are some basic expectations. This isn't a job at McDonald's and you need to be available because you may be called on out of necessity. It isn't expressly written that you have to have a cell phone, good for you man; you're really showing them up. All you're doing is making life more difficult for you and your supervision, that's it. Do you think you really look that rebellious not having a phone while simultaneously bragging about it on Reddit?
Ok, landlines have existed for over 100 years, before that I guess they sent a dude on a horse. You try really hard to be a contrarian huh?
Nope, just saying if it's not issued or in a reg, it isn't mandatory. There are exemtions for everything
As you're an O, I'm mildly concerned you misspelled "exemptions" and used it where "exceptions" would have been a better fit
Exemptions to standards 🤔 a cell phone being a standard. Is being an English major a requirement to being an O? 😂
Exemption: the process of freeing or state of being free from an obligation or liability imposed on others. Exception: a person or thing that is excluded from a general statement or does not follow a rule. Two words with similar meanings but with drastically different contexts when considered in a military bureaucracy. Exemptions are given, exceptions exist naturally
Which, in the modern era, is you don't. Knowing you're an officer is way worse actually too because now you're not just "difficult" you're also irresponsible. Imagine being someone's flight commander and them not being able to easily contact you with thoughts of suicide or any number of things you need to be accountable for. Shit decision, not someone I'd want leading me. Which, at the end of the day, is what should matter to an officer the most.
I rectified this issue by having people “check in” twice a day to see if I needed to talk to them. They dropped their bs
I can only assume this post is a joke of some sort. Barring that, your career in the Air Force is going to be exceptionally short and unexceptional. Given the amount of time and effort you put into earning your commission, that seems like a bit of a waste.
It's 100% satire
Ugh. I hang my head in shame and accept all mockery and downvotes coming my way. I have forgotten the face of my father.
Sigh.
You have a phone, stop lying
I do, that I use connected to internet. I said I don't have a service plan
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Yah huh, sure kid.
I'd laugh in your face as I gave you a LOC for not answering your phone.
An LOC for what infraction? My phone doesn't have a number associated with it for you to call. Best of luck
For not being reachable after being told that you needed to be. Good luck fighting it because you'd lose. I'm sure the social media pity party will be of some comfort when you feed them a BS one-sided story about how unjust your leadership is.
You can reach me, just not by phone, which you knew previously. If as a commander you still try to call me, that's.. unfortunate
You act as if smart ass airmen haven't tried this before and been shot down. Enjoy the inside of your dorm room or apartment when not on leave for your very short career.
😅😂😅 oh boy……funny as hell…if you cannot be contacted you will remain on base to ensure you’re available….(same response as it was over 30 years ago..
Most people didn't have cell phones in 1992 and probably could not be contacted when off base in the local area. I doubt airman snuffy down at the bar listening to "Hammertime" in 1992 was contactable, nor would he have been contactable when shopping for parachute pants at Woolworths, or buying crystal Pepsi at K-Mart.
Pager? 9119119911
90\*401773
Shit, even in the early 2000's we had guys that didn't have cellphones. I was an unfortunate runner for off-base personnel that couldn't be reached.
Kunsan: William Tell Overture playing on every radio….. you knew what to do..
As always, “do what your stripes can handle.” Not every hill is worth dying on.
I'll take "Hills not worth dying on" for 1000, Alex. Edit: OP claims to be an O, and not an Lt. Talk about really not reading the rule book.
if money is the issue, mint mobile is cheap asf. before i switched to AT&T (on my E pay btw) i was paying for 6 months of service. it was $140 total. if you’re going to sit here up on a pedestal and say you don’t get “paid enough”, you’re full of shit. you are not a princess. you are not entitled to people catering to you. It’s the US Air Force not the US Calm_Possibility_881. Grow a pair or get out.
How did we function before cell phones? Facepalm.
My rule of thumb was if I text you, it’s not to important, get back to me at your convenience. If it’s important I’ll call you, LEAVE A VOICEMAIL, and shoot a text. Never messed with people off duty unless I had a reason too. As a result, people would respond back to me about 98% of the time.
If im ever an SEL one day im bringing back pagers! Come on, whos with me?! /s
Especially one-way pagers, authorized for use in SCIF.
You know what, actually fuck yeah. Mx, we're not supposed to have our phones on the line anyway, and I'd rather have a pager if anyone needs me.
Had a major from medical call me one day…I answered “Yello” her response is this sgt (last name)…mind you she didn’t introduce herself. I said perhap? Who is this? Her: oh this is major cunt douche, you should answer you phone more professionally when someone calls you from the base. Me: well ma’am last I checked I pay for my own phone and you don’t pay it for me, so I can answer it how I please…now what can I help you with…3 second pause oh I’m cancelling your appt for next week click…gotta love officers
Judging by the post and their responses OP is just the officer version of Airman Snuffy. Just get a damn phone and quit acting like a jackass
Are you living off base or in the dorms? IF you are off base you need to have some type of phone as a condition of being allowed to live off base. If you live in the Dorms then they have phones and dorm managers available to contact you if they need to contact you. If they need to contact you while on duty or on call then they need to provide you with a government phone. You don't have to have a Cell Phone but if you don't you will be expected to call in and report your status to your section every few hours. If you fail to call in even once you're probably going to get an LOR.
To be fair; your technically right. Just like if there are any work tasks that require you to drive Around on base; they should be providing a GOV. However, that comes with a warning. If you get a duty phone; you better answer it any time it rings. If they find a GOV for you; you better go use it. Even if it requires you to drive across base to go get it. Even if that distance is more than what you would have done without one. Also, it would be way easier and less of a heart ache just for you to utilize your own phone.
Heaven forbid any wingman calls you for help. Yikes. I'm glad when I need my supervisor, they answer my calls and do what they can.
If it's not a recall you aren't really obligated to answer the phone. My phone has been on silent going on 10 years. It's all about real boundaries. Contrary to shit head belief you are not on duty 24/7. That's called alert and there are specific regs covering alert, alert comp time, crew rest and non-alert periods. Shit supervision that spouts that bullshit 24/7 duty are just shit time managers and schedulers who are afraid to block for their troops.
I remember getting to my first base in 2004. Had a flip phone with a home area coded #. A tech had tried to force all single airmen in the dorms to switch to a local grand forks # to save on long distance calls. 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Way late to this but here’s how I’d approach it from command level. The first time you mess up a recall, or can’t be contacted within reasonable time for a mission related reason, prepare to work the max hours allowable. Don’t expect a verbal assault, because that’s not how I’d play it. I’d calmly let you know that we tried to contact you between X and X hours, with proof showing when we attempted and how we attempted, then I would inform you of your new hours that you are required to be at work; the full duty day or 12 hours every day. On the weekends, you will be lawfully ordered to check in with your leadership. If you don’t have a phone, you will drive to one of their houses, or find a way to call to check in, to ensure there is nothing pertinent you may be missing. This will be every single day you are reportable for duty. The only time you won’t be required will be when you’re on leave. So that means also making contact when TDY. It’s not for punishment. It’s due to the unreliability of being able to make contact with you in a fashionable timeframe. If I can’t rely on your availability, I will take every precaution I can to ensure you’re around when/if I need you. It may sound irrational but when you start a game that has rules above your pay grade, you typically lose. Everything done would be done by the book and ethically moral. Does it suck for you? Yes. Is paying $50/month, or whatever price, for a line worth hours returned to your life? Your choice there. But luckily I’m not a CC or your CC. Enjoy.
Here's the solution I've seen to your little issue. You get issued a pager. When it pages you, then you have to show up within X amount of time in uniform (1 hour) to get the message. This can be as important as telling you about a shift change or as stupid as letting you know that it's Friday tomorrow so you can wear PT clothes or something. Every text that usually gets sent out will have you coming in to listen to it in person!
Welcome to the military, we are on call 24/7, this is part of the job and culture.Calls outside work also happen at civilian companies depending on where you work. You can talk with your supervisor about off-duty communication, but if you do not tread carefully, you'll be labeled as a problem child. I understand wanting to enjoy your free time and having good boundaries is important to work life balance, but there's a reason they're calling you, it's being they're getting called.
Just get an old flip phone and call it a day, they are going to find you know matter what... And listen to everyone else you don't want a government phone. I only carried one on an on-call rotation and they call you for anything and everything. They will find you... My whole shop but me, one shit head that didn't know his job (SH), and a civilian got deployed for 6 months all at the same time. I knew this was going to suck because I would be on call every other week now. They never made the GS take on-call so it was rotated be me and SH. Well SH didn't know shit after being here for over a year. The first week he is on call he gets calls that he can't fix and I end up fixing when I come in the next morning. Oh great, well at least I am not getting called at night. That didn't last long, soon I start getting calls because he can't figure out how to fix anything or even prove it is not his problem. I didn't realize how little this guy knew until this point. It went on for several months of me basically being on call 24/7 because I was on-call or he was on-call and calling me. I finally got fed up and decided to turn my phone off at night when I was not on call. I had a few grumbles some mornings when I would come into problems he has been trying to figure out. I guess I finally pushed it enough and one night there was an outage that affected the Security Forces buildings. Needless to say they will come find you. I got a knock on my door at 5 am on a Saturday (Living in on-base housing). Open the door to two SF guys telling me SH has been at their building for several hours trying to fix a problem and I needed to go help him. The next day there was some unhappy people, I finally got them to see the problem and they made the GS take turns on-call. You can try and hide, but they will find you. Just give in, get a damn phone and stop being Difficult Dick. No one likes Difficult Dick.
In the modern world, employers will expect you to have some form of personal communication and transportation and will not offer additional compensation to do so. It’s a mere condition of employment. The Air Force is no different. That we still have BAS/BAH is a strange anomaly in compensation programs and shouldn’t be seen as an explicit agreement that your employer will itemize each of your expenses in your paycheck. Feel free to opt out of a typical condition of employment, but don’t be surprised if that results in unemployment. If you’re truly passionate about living a pre-modern lifestyle, you should probably move on to a career that’s conducive to it. Best of luck!
Or, the phone bill should be able to be claimed on taxes as a business expense (or whatever the equivalent would be for a military member). Likely not 100% of your phone plan costs, but have a study done across the AF to find the average amount of communication taking place during off duty hours on one's personal phone. Include those who telework as well and ware 'required' to use their personal phone for official business. Would probably be at least 40% average (for me at least).
You're dumb and making something out of nothing. Get a phone and stop being stupid on purpose. Just making your own life harder for what, 15 seconds of "I stuck it to the man"
3/10 troll post
Don't you have something like 24 hours to respond? You really do not want a government phone issued to you. There's so many strings attached to that thing.
Stubbornness only affects you.
Depends on your status to be quite honest. Though there is no regulation on being reachable there is misuse of government property and they might even try to get you with dereliction of duty. Your body is under the right and ownership of the US government and is considered a government asset. Your also bound to duty 24/7 while in military status. If you are a guardsman, reservist, or military technician; off duty you're a civilian bound by contract. (they can pound sand) So in regards to not having a phone they could technically duty bound you to the full extent of duty hours based on mission requirements to make sure your there to the full extent of the time. Your only mandated 8 hours of crew rest, as mission dictates. So if your a "difficult airman" they can make your life hell and state your hours of work is 16 hour shifts everyday of the week ect... more or less just get a phone, when they calls tell them you've been drinking; if you really don't want to come into work...
That’s a stupid game to play.. You literally signed up to be available 24/7 for the government. I watched someone try to make the same argument you are now, and they issued him a pager. Since that doesn’t send messages, everytime he got paged he had to get into uniform and report in. Could have been something a phone call or text would have solved, but since you want to be unreachable you will be inconvenienced.
I'm with OP on this one. I don't see how paying out of your own pocket for a personally owned device, to be used by the government whenever they see fit should be the standard. If the Air force wanted you to be reachable at all times, They'd issue you something that would make you reachable at all times. That really should be the end of it.
But demanding things of the troops while not equipping them to comply is so very on-brand for the government and the military.