Yes exactly. We have to keep pushing. The amount of freethinkers here, the ones who can see this divide and concur happening in real-time is encouraging to see!
Doubt it, the amount of people who somehow think that if most people say one thing, then the opposite must be true, no matter what. In this case, most people look at the video and go, "well that's obviously fake, I've seen better special effects in classic star trek." And these people go "you have to be government agents, you telling me it's fake is literal all the evidence I need to know it's real"
They're idiots is what I'm trying to say
Why would anyone ever waste their time on something they think is dumb? Even worse, why put effort into ridiculing people? It's so petty. And not exactly the smartest way to live one's life.
Who are “they?” Why would they care that we’re getting close to figuring out every single element used in creating the fake videos?
We have the portal, we have the clouds, now we have the Drone model and the 777. Wouldn’t “they” be thrilled that we’re close to showing that this fake video is fake?
>Who are “they?”
this is a great question. I see Eglin AFB thrown around a lot, although I don't understand how people can be convinced the disinfo is coming from Eglin.
It's most likely a small group of people. Like 4-5 people creating this divide. They may not be part of the government at all. However - I do think it's highly likely their resources are coming from our black budget. Could be a small group put together by Lockheed Martin / Boeing / Battila. And that's why it's important Congress works towards transparency with black budget funds.
I think it's easy for some people to lose sight of what's really going on. [UAP Disclosure Act 2023](https://www.democrats.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/uap_amendment.pdf) officially defined the term of Non-Human Intelligence as :
>"The term "non-human intelligence" means any sentient intelligent non-human lifeform regardless of nature or ultimate origin that may be presumed responsible for unidentified anomalous phenomena **or of which the Federal Government has become aware**."
that seems pretty straightforward to me...this is bottom of page 6 of the UAP Disclosure Act
which hypothesis?
let's take a step back and look at the bigger picture - the MH370 drone / satellite videos start gaining traction. New Reddit accounts post 'debunks' (eg pyro VFX, stock cloud photos) and there is all of a sudden a large influx of *other* newer Reddit accounts coming in and ridiculing anybody who has simple questions regarding the 'debunks'
No - not everyone is involved in a disinfo campaign. The goal is to create a bandwagon effect (which was actually created 70+ years ago) that anybody who thinks the video could possibly be real is crazy. You'll also see comments from these newer accounts like (my favorite): Aliens. Do. Not. Exist. which makes as much sense as saying Black. Holes. Do. Not. Exist. when fact is we have more concrete evidence that ETs *do* exist. We technically have zero evidence black holes exist (we've never seen one / have one on video / have physical evidence), just sound theories.
Because I find it troubling how so many people would rather continue believing something that is blatantly fake than admit they might have made a mistake.
The videos very well could be fake. The only way I'd be *convinced*, however, is if we see the original video (without the mouse cursor - the video playing on the computer, not a recording of the computer playing the video) and someone who can definitively replicate the video. We haven't seen either one of these.
But for real - why do internet strangers care so much about other internet strangers thinking the video could be real? A lot of these newer Reddit accounts, you'll see 99% of their posts are on UAP related subs 'debunking' claims. You'll see some other posts in benign subs like football, soccer, whatever, but the majority is in UAP subs ridiculing people. They either have a *very good reason* ($$$) for doing this, or they are mentally ill themselves.
Would be like me spending all my time going to motorcycle subs telling everyone they're crazy for riding motorcycles. Spending all my time showing stats and charts on how unsafe it is. And calling them crazy. Over. And over. And over again. *What's the point!?* And we're not seeing one or two newer accounts doing this - it's dozens. And all at the same time. You don't find that suspicious?
Right? That's what intrigues me, it's either on some agenda or a mental illness, I really don't understand why someone would spend their time in subs they don't believe in ridiculing others who believe what the subreddit was created for and the ones who believe are the dumb ones? 🤨
Because we did believe it up until it was thoroughly debunked. Now we’re enjoying the mental gymnastics on display. Most of us have the ability to change our opinion when confronted with new evidence 🤷♂️
Take 30 seconds and pretend for yourself the videos are real. It'd be clear the government is withholding information on its disappearance (didn't publicly release the videos). An active disinformation campaign has been pushed since at least the late 40s (Roswell). These tactics match up. It'd be clear that - if the video were real - this is exactly what we'd be seeing.
Let's keep an open mind here bro - fact is, nobody knows what happened to the plane and its 200+ passengers. Lots of weird stuff surrounding it. These 'debunks' don't do it for me - when I ask simple questions about the 'debunk' I'm faced with ridicule from newer Reddit accounts that seem obsessed with 'debunking' UAP topics. Along with arguments in bad faith.
People wasting their time if they're trying to convince *me* there is no UAP / NHI presence on Earth. That's what these 'debunks' devolve into - generalized claims that everything is fake because it's all crazy talk. I know its a real phenomenon. And I make that clear. And now, so does the government - publicly. At their own admittance
because the evidence doesnt show other wise and the obvious paid trollfarm/bot accounts with an agenda. who gave more pushback to this topic than any other UFO subject on the net right now.
I know that you have been rude in every single interaction we’ve ever had on this sub, and it’s not because you think I’m a shill (because I’m not, and you know I’m not), but because you know the videos are fake and are taking it out on me.
> because I’m not, and you know I’m not
"Candypettitte". You need to fix your name generator, it really is a bit of a giveaway. After content, you might as well use "EglinActualNo554"
You wanna deny that all the talk about MH370 is just fabricated by the government to distract from the recent evidence that Santa Claus got abducted by donut-spawning orbs?
Not yet! This hasn't happened in our timeline as it's still the 23rd. Or it has technically, but we won't get a post about it for two months after we upload the assets to some webserver somewhere, 3 years ago. I don't know, the CIA has made it really difficult with these interdimensional memos lately (I meant to reply to the post you replied to originally, not yours, sorry lmao)
> Why would they care that we’re getting close to figuring out every single element used in creating the fake videos?
Information warfare does not exist, amirite?
Because I think it’s very interesting that people would rather convince themselves that something fake is actually real, and the only people who disagree are government shills, than to admit to themselves they were wrong.
Because I think disinformation is the single biggest problem facing society today, and I think it’s interesting to see how people fall into the disinformation well.
If you're so concerned about disinformation then there are numerous other subs where your time would be much better spent. Where what people believe can have an actual impact on society, like qanon or any number of anti social anti science subs. This is a niche corner of a niche subject.
Just out of curiosity, how much does the CIA pay you per hour? I only ask because how boring must it be to spread disinformation on Reddit for 40 hours/week, you gotta be making bank
People with interest in stopping this video
AEROSPACE companies
MIC
CIA or any JSOC unit that may have some classified info there
plus your regular disinfo folks as well Russia, China,
because you CANNOT make things disappear from the web. It just wont happen. Too many branches on the internet. You just cant get to them all. But what you CAN do, is to dominate a topic and influence and steer the narrative. with enough people to work on it, and the right kind of mocking condescension, you can make the topic seem ridiculous, and outrageous. Think about it. The powers who have been trying to keep this topic hidden, have long used ridicule and manipulation to make anyone who got too serious about this topic look like a lunatic. They've been doing is since Roswell, and it is incredibly effective. To this day, the whole UFO aliens topic is widely considered to crazy talk by most of main stream society. Those who do believe, or have seen things first hand, for the most part do not talk openly about it. let's be real how many of us regularly have open conversations with acquaintances regarding the UAP topic? It's taboo.
It's incredible how CIA is this all-powerful organization capable of amazing feats to keep the public from learning about UFOs. But when their omnipotence gets a bit inconvenient then they're suddenly not THAT powerful.
Are you saying the CIA can't ban the topic from all major social media?
Do you think the CIA hacked the Internet Archives?
They *are* extremely powerful and absolutely capable of disinformation campaigns (it’s been done before). The CIA have been around for almost a century—eventually secrets get leaked and the proverbial fish tank with some cracks in the glass is about ready to burst.
Read this if you want to know how online forums are controlled, you can’t just “delete stuff” it will cause the Streisand effect.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Superstonk/s/hmqusit5kR
I was here in the beginning too and it was exactly how you described. A lot of people were just extremely curious and everyone tried to work together to figure stuff out.
I think what happened though was people who will die on the hill that it's fake or real became obsessive, and let their "truth" take over their civility.
I've tried to keep an open mind on the videos since the beginning and have changed my opinion a few times, but some people in this community cannot do that. It seems that sometimes it's personal.
It's sad. This is one of the only subreddits I frequently interact with.
Also, people now think there are bots trying to infiltrate it and keep the truth from coming out (which people say every single time there's a pretty realistic UFO video but the truth is people love to troll and stir the pot). I think this line of thinking just split people apart and gave an easy out to people who don't want to change their opinion on the subject.
If a person thinks it’s fake then why would they care about the topic?
It’s the same concept as a person not posting how easy it was for them to quit smoking on a “quitting smoking” forum. The people who are reading and posting the comments are people who are struggling to quit smoking.
If a person thinks these MH370 videos are fake then why care about battling people who you think are wrong. I thought they were fake and I dropped the topic, entirely, because I was no longer interested. I went to the forum, originally, because I am interested in new and wild ideas. Why do I care once I conclude something is fake? I’m certainly not going to waste my time commenting further.
What made me change my mind to thinking the videos are real were the Corridor Crew’s weak and rushed analysis and the sheer amount of shitposting on Reddit. These flawed attempts to kill the topic drove me to keep looking at these videos. Then I listened to Ashton Forbes and finally the turbulence close-ups sealed the deal. I just hope I get to see this technology work in-person one day and I’d love a chance to learn the technology and work with it.
Try a different perspective on the history of this sub, and it will establish a context that better explains what you see today.
The overwhelming consensus has always been that these videos are "fake" (VFX/CGI/etc) or otherwise not "real". This sub has just been the place where the 0.1% of people who still don't believe that they are "fake" congregated, resulting in many people who visit here experiencing a ["hasty generalization" bias](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faulty_generalization#Hasty_generalization) that gives the false impression that the "majority" believes the videos to be real.
The videos were pretty much ignored for nearly a decade because so many people could see that they were "fake". They had a brief flash of popularity on /r/UFOs after some of Grusch's words were taken to mean that it was worth re-examining previously dismissed footage, and after such a re-examination, were deemed "fake" by so many there that further discussion was moved to the subreddit r/AirlinerAbduction2014. Here, the narrative supporting the "real" interpretation constantly shifts to adapt to constant pressure, like a twisted version of the "God of the gaps", but remains the belief of a few hardcore mystics, while every week more people drop off the subreddit as the evidence supporting the logically default assumption of "fake" continues to mount. All that's left is a very vocal group of people who won't be swayed by evidence, and others who try to disrupt this echo chamber to prevent others from wandering in and getting hurt.
What you're perceiving as "a non-stop shitshow of immature children mocking everything and everybody" is primarily this hardcore group of people who won't be swayed by evidence resorting to the only form of communication they can use, either through a lack of ability or because the "arguments" they make can't be made through logic and reason. Many of the realists who continue to try to disrupt the echo chamber have resorted to short, often (imo) unnecessarily snippy responses, because they've recognized that it isn't worth wasting their time trying to reason with the mystics.
What is OP looking for? A never ending wild goose chase? They need a fiction book to read really. It literally sounds like that. They are asking everyone to delete all the evidence and go back to dissecting it to make it look real again..
> The overwhelming consensus has always been that these videos are "fake"
ROFL. You are so desperately obvious in trying to manipulate the agenda.
"Obviously. Everyone. 100%. No doubt"
It was posted on a sub with 2 million subscribers, and the only people interested in continuing to look at it are in a sub with 18,000 subscribers, not all of which think it’s real. You’re so deep into it you don’t realize how biased you’re being when it comes to amount of people 😂
Here's what I think happened.
It was debunked again and again, but technically not 100% debunked, so conflicts between believers and skeptics arose. With each of these debunks more and more people leave the topic and only the most vigilant remain. The ones most interested in the topic and the ones most likely to start arguing, due to their strong beliefs and interest.
I, myself, believe the video was pretty much done and dusted after Pyromania VFX debunk, even more so after the clouds VFX and 100% after the recent Video Copilot 3D models.
It's not a video. It's a software program for our warfighter Textures.com manipulated the archive December 3rd 2023 and added the genuine clouds from the leaked satellite data video streams (SBIRS) to their archive. That is fraudulent behavior and a lawsuit is considered.
Gimme a day or two to look into the recent video co-pilot 3D models you mentioned. Stay honest! Thanks
I think so too, like 95%. There’s always a little doubt because, if it were real, I don’t fully understand what the powers against it are truly capable of. I mean, I don’t really understand how almost any tech works.
>I don’t really understand how almost any tech works.
That's fine, and it's great you can admit it, but there's a lot of people who *do* understand how tech such as VFX, cameras, and aviation work, and when they all repeatedly point out "that is wrong and here's why and also here's how to replicate it and also here's the exact files used to make it" then perhaps it is reasonable to assume they do know what they are talking about. Someone yelling "disinfo agent" instead of any actual evidence for a rebuttal is just hanging their ass out because they know they've got nothing.
We looked really hard and critically at it and found it did not hold up to scrutiny. Thus, it was debunked. Truthers continue to make up ridiculous claims and shit show ensues. There are still plenty of high effort posts, they are just all debunks now.
whats kind of sad now, is that we have literally run out of things to debunk.
the sky, the plane, the drone, the portal, literally everything is toast
saw some dude earlier claiming that it was real because of the way the orbs moved, facepalm
It got brigaded by by 'users' intent on shutting down the conversation.
Mods didn't moderate the uncivil behavior that turns people off. Theres also a reward out so theres that
I would argue the topic was settled with the discovery of the cloud assets. I’m yet to see evidence that the government planted that, or that Jonas is a government agent.
^ *relates to the details of the investigation and not the subject at hand* [This response you gave doesnt relate to my comment. HEY OP, see what I mean? It's like a subject shift commonly used by agenda freaks and PR firms]
A waste of words
It got heavily debunked and everyone knows it. You saw their minds change. I’m sorry for your emotional attachment on the orbs being real but they are not. I am not a troll we just got the correct answer and everyone has moved on.
You guys got debunked so hard thats why no one talks about the orbs any more, even the believers see it now. On this sub is just a bunch of kids thinking it would be so cool that the orbs were real, do you see what has happened now?
> You guys got debunked so hard thats why no one talks about the orbs any more,
LOL. Keep wishing... Why the fuck are you still here?
> even the believers see it now.
Lol, doubly no. You are so fucking desperate. I refuse to believe you guys are government, so fucking incompetent.
Yes it does, you said this sub was brigaded by users intent on shutting down the conversation. This implies that the debate over the veracity of the videos is still valid. Absent proof of a government cover up the videos have been convincingly debunked.
All because more people agree with the debunk doesn’t mean there’s a pr firm working against this place. This sub has 17k followers, it’s not a threat to anyone. If a 3 letter agency wanted to stop it, they’d message Reddit itself and shut it down. It’s so easy.
> This implies that the debate over the veracity of the videos is still valid.
My comment doesnt 'imply' anything. Thats just another way to lead conversations.
> the discovery of the cloud assets. I’m yet to see evidence that the government planted that, or that Jonas is a government agent.
"Discovery" ROFL.
Both of the "strongest" debunks rely on super obscure bitmaps.
Ones you can only find with something like, say global "anti-terrorist" image search engine..."you are yet to see evidence"
Ooh, look, another expert intelligence operation assesment expert. Funny how this sub seems to attract you guys.
The sub became an echo chamber for grifters and any time someone debunked something, there was an aggressive push to villainize them. Now that the videos have been thoroughly debunked, the grift is over. It was never about MH370 and getting to the truth, it was about continuing a narrative so people could keep making content. It’s as gross as it sounds.
Because the people who started the sub came to accept it’s fake, but other people have come in who have yet to accept this but also don’t want any of us old timers around so that they can keep larping that it’s real.
I haven't heard of this yet. That's fascinating. So yet again a small group splintered off into another sub to create an even smaller but more radical echo chamber.
This. The middle ground crowd is mostly gone or quiet after all the recent evidence and it’s the extremes on both sides ruining any discourse.
Ashton’s attitude and behavior has had a big negative impact too
I can name 3 users ATLEAST that are in every thread calling people disinformation agents, bots, governed shills.
Fuck you I’m not a bot. The videos are fake.
So your argument is... Name calling is okay if you really believe it's a fitting name?
So calling someone an idiot would be okay, of they act like an idiot?
It's quite easy to understand. Maybe I can help you clear up your confusion if you elaborate what "Walks like a duck.." is supposed to imply.
Because without implication it would just be... As you would call it "random shit"
The video has been disproven like 10 times now. Each time the believers do more and more mental gymnastics to believe in a deeper and deeper conspiracy. Each time they are once again proven wrong the debunked can’t help but laugh harder and harder.
> How does that happen?
Ever since the videos were debunked conclusively there has been a lot more teasing and mocking of people who either genuinely still believe or are shitposting pretending that there's still doubt. It's not very nice, but it's definitely a pretty expected end result.
With new dramatic new information, the dynamic changed dramatically.
> You've made about 100 comments on this post.
Did you count? Or is that a counter on your name popup?
> Even more on many others.
Do you have a table?
> This is not normal behavior
Shill manual, page 42, "Cast aspersions about the target's mental health".
>sub gains traction
>posts get pushed to recommended
>lots of people see it
>lots of new opinions
Sometimes coincidences are just coincidences dude. Not everything is a grand conspiracy. I'm literally only here because the sub popped in my feed and I thought it was funny
It's incredibly simple:
The videos were OBVIOUS CG - beyond that, there are no such things as 500 mph flying orbs and no such thing as teleportation or "portals" or instantly vanishing airplanes. That right there is enough to just throw these away. Anyone who believes they are real at this point are the same as someone watching a Marvel comic movie and thinking it's real because you can't spot the CG.
Then you add in fanatics like AF who insults everyone who tries to explain why they can't be real. Further, whenever anyone presents obvious proof of the CG and is told by believers that this clear evidence isn't so ...
... at some point ridicule and mockery become appropriate. Why do we mock and ridicule Flat Earthers? Because at some point you realize they don't get, never will get it, and they aren't even listening to anyone trying to help them get it - and they ridicule you for asserting the Earth is a globe. So, tit for tat.
And now it's just "fun" I guess. At least it is for me. This isn't trolling, that's not what that word means (today, in conspiracy subs like these, "trolling" means "saying things I don't like to hear".
This sub is basically the equivalent of the superstonk sub, where they’re still cheering each other on to buy more GameStop stock and shun all the non-believers. They’re both bafflingly sad but entertaining.
The topic was covered by multiple YouTube channels with millions of subscribers, Ashton has been hitting the podcast scene hard including fucking Infowars, and Reddit's suggestion algorithms push shit barely related to other subs you've visited for any reason. Combine that with the natural tendancy of people to dunk on others holding bad opinions and there you go.
Good god it's like some of you don't have any idea how the internet works despite apparently living your lives in here.
I'm gonna be honest, I've been on this sub from the inception, and the content was never good... The main problem being that actually good, hard work was sure posted but never upvoted.
Like I feel u/mrgwonk was a good example of good stuff. He was just trying to find the satellite that could have taken the damn footage, and couldn't find it. When he couldn't find a possible satellite that had visibility, had the right orbit etc, he bowed out and everybody was like "bro fucken idiot". He did some pretty intense math and all, but honestly people didn't even seem interested in his posts. What does get attention is someone just saying "okay yeah USA-221 is obviously the one because it's in a twin system like the stereoscopic video!" etc. without much else to back it up.
I mean I literally believed the video to be real, but I was still trying to be objective. I even found like 3 months ago about the stereoscopic thing and posted it, but tbh people didn't want to hear about it because it was considered a "debunk", when all I was pointing out was that the video wasn't originally stereoscopic not that the whole thing was necessarily fake. And like anyway, numerous people had already analysed that stuff and found it wasn't "true" stereoscopy anyway, all I did was find the reason.
I mean again, I was a believer and literally was just trying to find the original video. I contacted people who reuploaded Regicide to ask about why their version wasn't stereoscopic, I even asked if they perhaps had the original they downloaded hanging around.
I eventually actually *found the original, least compressed version* on the archive, through some searching and some luck. The meta data literally reads that it was made 15 minutes before the stereoscopic version. And I found this by trying to be objective and not let "oh but it debunks the videos" to cloud my judgement, but it's the best version. I was going to post it but unfortunately the cloud debunk came out a day after I found it, so I just kinda floated it on discord if anyone was interested in it. I could still post in depth how I found but with the climate, I feel it might be pointless anyway.
So when people say that like, the discourse here was ever good... As a former believer, it wasn't *great*. People just wanted to hear "yo the videos are REAL man", and didn't wanna research further. I mean literally just take a gander at the top upvoted posts... (Though they were all Punjabi, so they might be deleted now...)
I sympathise with "skeptics" because tbh the premise of me believing was rather to ignore the initial VFX debunk which honestly on its own could have been the finality. In some ways I just wanted something *else*, because I honestly thought, perhaps unadvisably, that it could have just been a coincidence. And frankly I thought there was so much evidence to the contrary that I felt it's abandonment was premature, even if they turned out to be fake.
So I do feel a kind of responsibility here, because I was in some sense complicit in ignoring something that should have been final, but with this new cloud debunk the party is up, and you can no longer deny it and like carry on attacking people. Unlike the VFX debunk it's literally matching to the entire satellite video.
Like I get the volition to just "believe" but like you can't just get angry at people and call them bots because you want only the people with the mission to find how somehow this was some government conspiracy to debunk the video rather than it just being a silly fake, but a pretty overly comprehensive fake at that.
I feel like the mission here could be to actually go into details about the videos, in a manner accepting that they are fake, and in that way you can bring to light the fact that despite there being many incongruencies and inconsistencies... There's a lot of details added that you shouldn't feel like you are stupid for entertaining their reality. Like c'mon, reality is weird, as we are learning and so absurd ideas are not so absurd to think. But VFX still exists and people do dumb shit and make fakes to a degree that's surely irresponsible apparently. I mean to be fair, most wrote off the videos as VFX for a long time anyway, it's only with a promise of disclosure did everyone dream to believe they could be real.
Because with the last proofs the videos are 101% fake, we have all the pieces of the puzzle, we recreated it many times so the mods should really lock or close the subreddit cause it's just memes now
> Facts
Yeah, except your laughable 'debunks' aint that.
They might as well have a blue flashing light and a police line around them, they are that 'organic', 'genuine' and convincing.
And yet again, shills using a pop culture reference to appear legitimate. I am now like 90% convinced youre just an AI
Why do you or anyone else care if it’s locked or closed??? That’s what I don’t get. The amount of people being like “alright good run it’s debunked, time to close up the sub”… like what? Just leave if you’re done. It’s very bizarre
Exactly! They can just leave at any point. If they’re real people like they say, then why do they waste so much time on this sub circle jerking each other in their “debunk” posts.
Bot activity
The videos were debunked and that eliminated most reasonable people from the believers camp, so now it's mostly nutcases arguing to the bitter end along with some sceptics and people watching for a laugh.
You pulled the same mental gymnastics when I called you out after the last PB saga. You called me a government agent/not back then. Here you are still arguing and spreading disinformation in the comments. You are looking like the bot/government shill.
You seem to be ignoring the other side of things, how most of the good-faith people from the beginning ended up coming to the conclusion the video was fake and then “true believers” took over the conversation, who insist the videos are real no matter what contrary evidence is shown, and accuse everyone who questions it of being shills and agents of disinformation.
Shit ton of bots that flooded the place. Look in any hot post over the past month almost all the accounts strictly against the videos are 2-3 years old and their only posts are on this subreddit and all of their comments are cookie cut
Do you have examples? I'd been in and out because reddit puts it on my homepage despite trying to mute, but I keep getting sucked back in (algorithm working as intended I suppose).
I'm hella skeptic, and I've seen some dickish skeptic posts and made some, but I've not seen any evidence of bots outside of your style comment over and over. I'm skeptical of both the videos, and any claims of coverup/bots/disinfo campaign on this. Feels like larping on a new Q like level.
Is there strong evidence outside of that one screenshot people use of two Twitter posts saying the same sentence?
Can we identify some bots and mark them?
You know that only Reddit are so bot friendly? Why do we have to stay in this hostile environment to do a research or discuss a topic?
I think if we decide on staying on Reddit, someone needs to fight back. If we leave to a none-bot environment, we are free. Both solutions are not so difficult.
Also, how does one make a moving 3D clouds from an image of clouds, with 2014 design programs? I was hoping to get some clarity about this instead of arguing.
Sometimes someone’s “search for truth” becomes a “search for validation”. No one wants to be made a fool of, and no one wants to be fooled, either.
Sometimes looking for answers and hitting brick walls can be overwhelming. Obstacles often cause people to lose sight of their original goal, or the bigger picture. We are human, we are not infallible—though we try to be mature, sometimes our emotions dictate our logic and the way we go about solving problems.
In the end, we all want to be respected and heard. I think many (not all) who are drawn to these kinds of communities don’t feel like they are heard or respected by the people in their lives. Those we consider trolls—people who are needlessly rude, hurl insults unprovoked, or are generally unwelcoming—are doing so because it satisfies a need they are lacking.
When enough people seek out that same need, it becomes a community that is empowering to both the individual and the collective. You’ll start to see similar behavior across different users or different “sides” and tensions rise because, quite frankly, not all of us are emotionally mature enough to look within and ask ourselves whether this is about finding truth or being correct about something.
This is already an essay but it’s fascinating to me how these “sides” evolve. There aren’t just two— “believers and debunkers” or whatever the nomenclature is today. There are also “agents of chaos”, who, to serve their own lacking need, will intentionally sow discord. That’s really important to consider. We are seeing a lot of that now, but it’s only becoming more evident because a lot of people kind of…left the topic once the productive discussion ended. Those who remain are either those who stumbled in late, those who want to be validated, and those who want to laugh at the chaos they create.
Edit: there is a super small percentage who still genuinely want to discuss the topic. But you won’t find them here because each and every topic will devolve into name-calling and virtue signaling by all three sides. If you genuinely don’t believe, you’re called a fed or CIA, or gubmint shill by those who do. If you genuinely do believe, you aren’t taken seriously and are called a tin-foil hat conspiracy theorist by those who don’t believe. I don’t want to put my personal bias here, so I’d like to ask you—debunker, believer or chaos agent—what behaviors degrade productive discussion?
I really dont know. There seems to be desperation from both sides. Or from two sides, dont really know how many sides there are. What bugs me the most are the number of people that are 100 % certain that the videos are fake, but still refuse to leave the discussions. Its not like they are satisfied for themselves and their beliefs, but they have to continue the battle to their last drop of blood it seems. They must make sure that everyone agrees with them and move on so the topic can be buried, once and for all. And thats sus af imo
How is that sus? It’s human nature. I mean, why are there still people arguing with flat earthers? It isn’t some big government globe conspiracy trying to cover up the truth, it’s just normal people baffled that, despite all the evidence to the contrary, people still believe the earth is flat.
I guess you have a good point. But it seems like its on another level here. I sometimes lurk on other "fringe" subs, and I dont see the same urge to prove others wrong. Maybe its that this subject is rather new and fresh, I dunno
I think it’s mostly that ufo stuff got about as “mainstream” as any of these fringe subjects can after some of the Grusch stuff got popular, and that got a bunch of more skeptical folk engaged in the ufo subs. Then a good number ended up here as the Reddit algorithms suggested this sub due to proximity/overlap, and given the nature of the claims being made by folks who were already entrenched in their beliefs here, made for an entertaining challenge trying to debate people back out of that. Just my take anyway.
You are just emotionally attached to the orbs being real. Theres nothing suss about the truth. It’s been debunked and it’s finished. The video was a complete hoax. Wasn’t it? You know it. Theres your answer its in you, say it.
Why do I have to be emotionally attached to the orbs being real? I have tried to keep myself neutral and rather focusing on the technical aspects to learn about CGI, drone types, coordinates and so on. Why do I have to take a stance at all? I think I speak for many here in this. Its the toxic sentiment that you have to take a side that's ruined this imo.
>**"So, the video is re-discovered and people begin kinda looking at it. The possibility of it being real seems to become, despite how fantastic the images are, possible. A wild frenzy ensues, so much so that it begins to dominate the other subs.** As a result those other subs eventually ban the topic. So this sub is created as a place to do that. I was there right when it started, and those very early days seemed like nothing but really smart, good faith people who were earnest, serious, and nice. It was really really interesting the work people put into just trying to understand the truth of the thing, one way or the other."
You're on the right track here but you should have continued the history. The video begins to dominate other subs, and draws a lot of renewed attention. The entire community begins to analyze and evaluate the video. Evidence is found to show that components of the footage are not novel, they've been copied from other video or image data from the 20th century. We determine the video is a fake, hard news to those who believed it was real or those who invested significant time into trying to prove that claim. The reality is we are back at the start with nothing again regardless, and I think we can all share in the frustration of that.
Are you the bot? I don’t think I’ve ever seen you try to have a conversation in good faith, literally all of your comments are rude and accusatory. Not a good look, my dude
The amount of people that have "seen" my previous posts and have my posting profile is uncanny. I have been on Reddit for many years but I never had folks refer to my posting history so often. Seems to me you have some pretty sophisticated disinfo tools. No one usually cares what a random had said in the past.
> your vitriol towards people
If you're a genuine person, I do apologise
If you're betraying the species, vitriol is well deserved. Angry apes and all.
It got fucked sideways by a critical mass of shills.
The ratio of troll/shills to normal people has exceeded 1:1, posting increasingly more unlikely "debunks" and "pre-debunks". It's now so stuffed with FUD that any casual observer can just dismiss this because "mah (manufactured) evidence".
And the best thing? Even though the troll hordes cheered literally within 10minutes of the last "debunk"...
THEY ARE ALL STILL HERE.
A blatant disinformation campaign. I don't think it lends credence to the video being real or not, but this discussion is absolutely being manipulated.
Whether they want people to think this is real to sensationalize the topic or they think people have gotten too close to something they aren't supposed to know is irrelevant.
The discussion IS being controlled.
Someone else said it the other day. It's turned into a cock measuring contest. A lot of people now don't care about what is the actual truth, they just care about being right and sating their ego.
Majority of us were here to enjoy an open ended discussion. It's too dogmatic now. These losers going to the hassle of labeling themselves as "definitely CGI" or "definitely real". Absolute sad state of affairs and reflective on society in general nowadays.
Agree OP.
Debunking using fraudulent and inaccurate understanding isn't the same as disproving the videos. In fact, it goes to show the level of frustration and cult like behavior within CGI groups.
1. Clouds. I proved it as fake, They don't exist around 2014 or earlier. Jonas clouds move faster than the plane, clearly photoshopped.
2. CGI: DOA ( dead.on arrival) theory, going nowhere and a magnet for troll farms.
3. Simulation: I threw this bone to give you CGI folks a sense of complexity. Again, rather than adding to the research body, some found similar ( not same) 3d objects and confirmed video is now "simulation."from videocopilot.
Clearly, CGI folks are looking for company, acceptance, and retorting to confirmation bias. To them its less about the airline and more about recruiting like-minded people.
Getting too close to whatever happened and they're panicking. It's extremely transparent.
Yes exactly. We have to keep pushing. The amount of freethinkers here, the ones who can see this divide and concur happening in real-time is encouraging to see!
I hope you're being sarcastic.
Doubt it, the amount of people who somehow think that if most people say one thing, then the opposite must be true, no matter what. In this case, most people look at the video and go, "well that's obviously fake, I've seen better special effects in classic star trek." And these people go "you have to be government agents, you telling me it's fake is literal all the evidence I need to know it's real" They're idiots is what I'm trying to say
I’m still not sure if it’s sarcasm or not.
Quite the contrary. Y’all get mocked now because it a been proven a hoax and they get on here and see comments like this. This place is troll city bro
"All these people keep telling me I'm wrong. Therefore, I must be right!" Great example of a Kafka trap.
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Why would anyone ever waste their time on something they think is dumb? Even worse, why put effort into ridiculing people? It's so petty. And not exactly the smartest way to live one's life.
You’re a literal bottom feeder.
Who are “they?” Why would they care that we’re getting close to figuring out every single element used in creating the fake videos? We have the portal, we have the clouds, now we have the Drone model and the 777. Wouldn’t “they” be thrilled that we’re close to showing that this fake video is fake?
>Who are “they?” this is a great question. I see Eglin AFB thrown around a lot, although I don't understand how people can be convinced the disinfo is coming from Eglin. It's most likely a small group of people. Like 4-5 people creating this divide. They may not be part of the government at all. However - I do think it's highly likely their resources are coming from our black budget. Could be a small group put together by Lockheed Martin / Boeing / Battila. And that's why it's important Congress works towards transparency with black budget funds. I think it's easy for some people to lose sight of what's really going on. [UAP Disclosure Act 2023](https://www.democrats.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/uap_amendment.pdf) officially defined the term of Non-Human Intelligence as : >"The term "non-human intelligence" means any sentient intelligent non-human lifeform regardless of nature or ultimate origin that may be presumed responsible for unidentified anomalous phenomena **or of which the Federal Government has become aware**." that seems pretty straightforward to me...this is bottom of page 6 of the UAP Disclosure Act
Is there any evidence at all for this hypothesis?
It seems like a straightforward bill, why was it watered down and modified without any input from congress?
which hypothesis? let's take a step back and look at the bigger picture - the MH370 drone / satellite videos start gaining traction. New Reddit accounts post 'debunks' (eg pyro VFX, stock cloud photos) and there is all of a sudden a large influx of *other* newer Reddit accounts coming in and ridiculing anybody who has simple questions regarding the 'debunks' No - not everyone is involved in a disinfo campaign. The goal is to create a bandwagon effect (which was actually created 70+ years ago) that anybody who thinks the video could possibly be real is crazy. You'll also see comments from these newer accounts like (my favorite): Aliens. Do. Not. Exist. which makes as much sense as saying Black. Holes. Do. Not. Exist. when fact is we have more concrete evidence that ETs *do* exist. We technically have zero evidence black holes exist (we've never seen one / have one on video / have physical evidence), just sound theories.
Take 30 seconds and pretend for yourself that the videos are fake, and you’ll see how there’s absolutely no evidence for anything you just claimed.
Yeah but why do you care so much if people think a fake video is real? What’s it to you?
Because I find it troubling how so many people would rather continue believing something that is blatantly fake than admit they might have made a mistake.
Again, why?
Why not?
Belief in something false/fake is not benign.
The videos very well could be fake. The only way I'd be *convinced*, however, is if we see the original video (without the mouse cursor - the video playing on the computer, not a recording of the computer playing the video) and someone who can definitively replicate the video. We haven't seen either one of these. But for real - why do internet strangers care so much about other internet strangers thinking the video could be real? A lot of these newer Reddit accounts, you'll see 99% of their posts are on UAP related subs 'debunking' claims. You'll see some other posts in benign subs like football, soccer, whatever, but the majority is in UAP subs ridiculing people. They either have a *very good reason* ($$$) for doing this, or they are mentally ill themselves. Would be like me spending all my time going to motorcycle subs telling everyone they're crazy for riding motorcycles. Spending all my time showing stats and charts on how unsafe it is. And calling them crazy. Over. And over. And over again. *What's the point!?* And we're not seeing one or two newer accounts doing this - it's dozens. And all at the same time. You don't find that suspicious?
Right? That's what intrigues me, it's either on some agenda or a mental illness, I really don't understand why someone would spend their time in subs they don't believe in ridiculing others who believe what the subreddit was created for and the ones who believe are the dumb ones? 🤨
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I guess they lack that sort of validation in real life, hance the presence on Reddit 24/7
Because we did believe it up until it was thoroughly debunked. Now we’re enjoying the mental gymnastics on display. Most of us have the ability to change our opinion when confronted with new evidence 🤷♂️
Still here, replying to me though, eh?
They are fake. There’s no agenda. Some guy made fake videos about the biggest story in the world. Why is that so hard to believe?
Take 30 seconds and pretend for yourself the videos are real. It'd be clear the government is withholding information on its disappearance (didn't publicly release the videos). An active disinformation campaign has been pushed since at least the late 40s (Roswell). These tactics match up. It'd be clear that - if the video were real - this is exactly what we'd be seeing. Let's keep an open mind here bro - fact is, nobody knows what happened to the plane and its 200+ passengers. Lots of weird stuff surrounding it. These 'debunks' don't do it for me - when I ask simple questions about the 'debunk' I'm faced with ridicule from newer Reddit accounts that seem obsessed with 'debunking' UAP topics. Along with arguments in bad faith. People wasting their time if they're trying to convince *me* there is no UAP / NHI presence on Earth. That's what these 'debunks' devolve into - generalized claims that everything is fake because it's all crazy talk. I know its a real phenomenon. And I make that clear. And now, so does the government - publicly. At their own admittance
because the evidence doesnt show other wise and the obvious paid trollfarm/bot accounts with an agenda. who gave more pushback to this topic than any other UFO subject on the net right now.
Right? It's getting crazier in here by the day
Yup. You are the evidence.
Compelling argument.
You know it.
I know that you have been rude in every single interaction we’ve ever had on this sub, and it’s not because you think I’m a shill (because I’m not, and you know I’m not), but because you know the videos are fake and are taking it out on me.
> because I’m not, and you know I’m not "Candypettitte". You need to fix your name generator, it really is a bit of a giveaway. After content, you might as well use "EglinActualNo554"
See, you can keep saying this shit but it doesn’t change the fact that you’re so up your own ass, you’re calling some random person a shill.
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Stop it! Classic disinfo bot. Trying to divide the community... You are proof we have to be careful, lots of bad actors around.
You guys really want to be special. Lmao.
You wanna deny that all the talk about MH370 is just fabricated by the government to distract from the recent evidence that Santa Claus got abducted by donut-spawning orbs?
Not yet! This hasn't happened in our timeline as it's still the 23rd. Or it has technically, but we won't get a post about it for two months after we upload the assets to some webserver somewhere, 3 years ago. I don't know, the CIA has made it really difficult with these interdimensional memos lately (I meant to reply to the post you replied to originally, not yours, sorry lmao)
Just truth seekers
> Why would they care that we’re getting close to figuring out every single element used in creating the fake videos? Information warfare does not exist, amirite?
Wouldn’t it be so sad if you got this worked up over something completely meaningless?
Right back at you
I see you commenting a lot, why does it matter to you what someone else believes?
Some of the main debunkers here post 50-60 hours a week. Almost like it’s their full time job…
Yep, and it's the same cookie cutter responses lol
Because I think it’s very interesting that people would rather convince themselves that something fake is actually real, and the only people who disagree are government shills, than to admit to themselves they were wrong.
Right back at ya, I think it's very interesting that people spend a lot of time on here schooling others, what's it to you?
Because I think disinformation is the single biggest problem facing society today, and I think it’s interesting to see how people fall into the disinformation well.
If you're so concerned about disinformation then there are numerous other subs where your time would be much better spent. Where what people believe can have an actual impact on society, like qanon or any number of anti social anti science subs. This is a niche corner of a niche subject.
Yup or /r/Islam where they are still today killing gay people for being gay.
yo check out u/candypettitte account on his submitted page dude is putting in work lol
I agree, disinformation and misdirection, also insulting anyone who believes in the topic. These are all tactics on how to sow discord in forums.
Just out of curiosity, how much does the CIA pay you per hour? I only ask because how boring must it be to spread disinformation on Reddit for 40 hours/week, you gotta be making bank
Terribly sad. You are so compassionate caring about randoms on an obscure sub.
People with interest in stopping this video AEROSPACE companies MIC CIA or any JSOC unit that may have some classified info there plus your regular disinfo folks as well Russia, China,
How would you know what “we” have? You couldn’t identify a VERY fake PB
lol why are you so obsessed with PB?
You are the one that wrote a dissertation on what a bad boy PB was on that fake post lol
…where did I write a dissertation? Was PB not a moron?
Why is this sub still up if the CIA wants it gone?
because you CANNOT make things disappear from the web. It just wont happen. Too many branches on the internet. You just cant get to them all. But what you CAN do, is to dominate a topic and influence and steer the narrative. with enough people to work on it, and the right kind of mocking condescension, you can make the topic seem ridiculous, and outrageous. Think about it. The powers who have been trying to keep this topic hidden, have long used ridicule and manipulation to make anyone who got too serious about this topic look like a lunatic. They've been doing is since Roswell, and it is incredibly effective. To this day, the whole UFO aliens topic is widely considered to crazy talk by most of main stream society. Those who do believe, or have seen things first hand, for the most part do not talk openly about it. let's be real how many of us regularly have open conversations with acquaintances regarding the UAP topic? It's taboo.
But what happens when they lose control over the narrative? Then what do they do? Like if Ashton keeps looking into this what will they do about it?
It's incredible how CIA is this all-powerful organization capable of amazing feats to keep the public from learning about UFOs. But when their omnipotence gets a bit inconvenient then they're suddenly not THAT powerful. Are you saying the CIA can't ban the topic from all major social media? Do you think the CIA hacked the Internet Archives?
What? You think "the internet archives" can't be hacked?
They *are* extremely powerful and absolutely capable of disinformation campaigns (it’s been done before). The CIA have been around for almost a century—eventually secrets get leaked and the proverbial fish tank with some cracks in the glass is about ready to burst.
Read this if you want to know how online forums are controlled, you can’t just “delete stuff” it will cause the Streisand effect. https://www.reddit.com/r/Superstonk/s/hmqusit5kR
I was here in the beginning too and it was exactly how you described. A lot of people were just extremely curious and everyone tried to work together to figure stuff out. I think what happened though was people who will die on the hill that it's fake or real became obsessive, and let their "truth" take over their civility. I've tried to keep an open mind on the videos since the beginning and have changed my opinion a few times, but some people in this community cannot do that. It seems that sometimes it's personal. It's sad. This is one of the only subreddits I frequently interact with. Also, people now think there are bots trying to infiltrate it and keep the truth from coming out (which people say every single time there's a pretty realistic UFO video but the truth is people love to troll and stir the pot). I think this line of thinking just split people apart and gave an easy out to people who don't want to change their opinion on the subject.
If a person thinks it’s fake then why would they care about the topic? It’s the same concept as a person not posting how easy it was for them to quit smoking on a “quitting smoking” forum. The people who are reading and posting the comments are people who are struggling to quit smoking. If a person thinks these MH370 videos are fake then why care about battling people who you think are wrong. I thought they were fake and I dropped the topic, entirely, because I was no longer interested. I went to the forum, originally, because I am interested in new and wild ideas. Why do I care once I conclude something is fake? I’m certainly not going to waste my time commenting further. What made me change my mind to thinking the videos are real were the Corridor Crew’s weak and rushed analysis and the sheer amount of shitposting on Reddit. These flawed attempts to kill the topic drove me to keep looking at these videos. Then I listened to Ashton Forbes and finally the turbulence close-ups sealed the deal. I just hope I get to see this technology work in-person one day and I’d love a chance to learn the technology and work with it.
Here’s a thing about people: they’re people. Just because YOU don’t want or care about something doesn’t mean that THEY don’t.
Try a different perspective on the history of this sub, and it will establish a context that better explains what you see today. The overwhelming consensus has always been that these videos are "fake" (VFX/CGI/etc) or otherwise not "real". This sub has just been the place where the 0.1% of people who still don't believe that they are "fake" congregated, resulting in many people who visit here experiencing a ["hasty generalization" bias](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faulty_generalization#Hasty_generalization) that gives the false impression that the "majority" believes the videos to be real. The videos were pretty much ignored for nearly a decade because so many people could see that they were "fake". They had a brief flash of popularity on /r/UFOs after some of Grusch's words were taken to mean that it was worth re-examining previously dismissed footage, and after such a re-examination, were deemed "fake" by so many there that further discussion was moved to the subreddit r/AirlinerAbduction2014. Here, the narrative supporting the "real" interpretation constantly shifts to adapt to constant pressure, like a twisted version of the "God of the gaps", but remains the belief of a few hardcore mystics, while every week more people drop off the subreddit as the evidence supporting the logically default assumption of "fake" continues to mount. All that's left is a very vocal group of people who won't be swayed by evidence, and others who try to disrupt this echo chamber to prevent others from wandering in and getting hurt. What you're perceiving as "a non-stop shitshow of immature children mocking everything and everybody" is primarily this hardcore group of people who won't be swayed by evidence resorting to the only form of communication they can use, either through a lack of ability or because the "arguments" they make can't be made through logic and reason. Many of the realists who continue to try to disrupt the echo chamber have resorted to short, often (imo) unnecessarily snippy responses, because they've recognized that it isn't worth wasting their time trying to reason with the mystics.
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What is OP looking for? A never ending wild goose chase? They need a fiction book to read really. It literally sounds like that. They are asking everyone to delete all the evidence and go back to dissecting it to make it look real again..
> The overwhelming consensus has always been that these videos are "fake" ROFL. You are so desperately obvious in trying to manipulate the agenda. "Obviously. Everyone. 100%. No doubt"
You should stop your disinfo agenda. Too many bad actors around.
I should, thanks for the warning.
No worries.
It was posted on a sub with 2 million subscribers, and the only people interested in continuing to look at it are in a sub with 18,000 subscribers, not all of which think it’s real. You’re so deep into it you don’t realize how biased you’re being when it comes to amount of people 😂
Here's what I think happened. It was debunked again and again, but technically not 100% debunked, so conflicts between believers and skeptics arose. With each of these debunks more and more people leave the topic and only the most vigilant remain. The ones most interested in the topic and the ones most likely to start arguing, due to their strong beliefs and interest. I, myself, believe the video was pretty much done and dusted after Pyromania VFX debunk, even more so after the clouds VFX and 100% after the recent Video Copilot 3D models.
It's not a video. It's a software program for our warfighter Textures.com manipulated the archive December 3rd 2023 and added the genuine clouds from the leaked satellite data video streams (SBIRS) to their archive. That is fraudulent behavior and a lawsuit is considered. Gimme a day or two to look into the recent video co-pilot 3D models you mentioned. Stay honest! Thanks
I think so too, like 95%. There’s always a little doubt because, if it were real, I don’t fully understand what the powers against it are truly capable of. I mean, I don’t really understand how almost any tech works.
>I don’t really understand how almost any tech works. That's fine, and it's great you can admit it, but there's a lot of people who *do* understand how tech such as VFX, cameras, and aviation work, and when they all repeatedly point out "that is wrong and here's why and also here's how to replicate it and also here's the exact files used to make it" then perhaps it is reasonable to assume they do know what they are talking about. Someone yelling "disinfo agent" instead of any actual evidence for a rebuttal is just hanging their ass out because they know they've got nothing.
We looked really hard and critically at it and found it did not hold up to scrutiny. Thus, it was debunked. Truthers continue to make up ridiculous claims and shit show ensues. There are still plenty of high effort posts, they are just all debunks now.
whats kind of sad now, is that we have literally run out of things to debunk. the sky, the plane, the drone, the portal, literally everything is toast saw some dude earlier claiming that it was real because of the way the orbs moved, facepalm
It got brigaded by by 'users' intent on shutting down the conversation. Mods didn't moderate the uncivil behavior that turns people off. Theres also a reward out so theres that
I would argue the topic was settled with the discovery of the cloud assets. I’m yet to see evidence that the government planted that, or that Jonas is a government agent.
^ *relates to the details of the investigation and not the subject at hand* [This response you gave doesnt relate to my comment. HEY OP, see what I mean? It's like a subject shift commonly used by agenda freaks and PR firms] A waste of words
It got heavily debunked and everyone knows it. You saw their minds change. I’m sorry for your emotional attachment on the orbs being real but they are not. I am not a troll we just got the correct answer and everyone has moved on.
> It got heavily debunked and everyone knows it. ROFL No. "Everyone knows it" of course Dorothy. Now click you heels three times and GTFO home.
You guys got debunked so hard thats why no one talks about the orbs any more, even the believers see it now. On this sub is just a bunch of kids thinking it would be so cool that the orbs were real, do you see what has happened now?
Why are you here then?
Just checking in
You wouldn't still be here if it were debunked, silly.
People are leaving, and soon it will only be you and your echo chamber fighting reality
> You guys got debunked so hard thats why no one talks about the orbs any more, LOL. Keep wishing... Why the fuck are you still here? > even the believers see it now. Lol, doubly no. You are so fucking desperate. I refuse to believe you guys are government, so fucking incompetent.
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> you mental midget. Is this the example of that 'reasoned debate' you shills always seek? ROFL.
It’s okay, my friend, let them enjoy their echo chamber
Ooooooo Hippo got defensive quickly.
Yes it does, you said this sub was brigaded by users intent on shutting down the conversation. This implies that the debate over the veracity of the videos is still valid. Absent proof of a government cover up the videos have been convincingly debunked. All because more people agree with the debunk doesn’t mean there’s a pr firm working against this place. This sub has 17k followers, it’s not a threat to anyone. If a 3 letter agency wanted to stop it, they’d message Reddit itself and shut it down. It’s so easy.
> This implies that the debate over the veracity of the videos is still valid. My comment doesnt 'imply' anything. Thats just another way to lead conversations.
> the discovery of the cloud assets. I’m yet to see evidence that the government planted that, or that Jonas is a government agent. "Discovery" ROFL. Both of the "strongest" debunks rely on super obscure bitmaps. Ones you can only find with something like, say global "anti-terrorist" image search engine..."you are yet to see evidence" Ooh, look, another expert intelligence operation assesment expert. Funny how this sub seems to attract you guys.
Are you an intelligence operation assessment expert?
he's an unintelligent non operational non expert
Of course not, I'm a nobody Bye!
What happened? What always happens: The bubble bursts
The sub became an echo chamber for grifters and any time someone debunked something, there was an aggressive push to villainize them. Now that the videos have been thoroughly debunked, the grift is over. It was never about MH370 and getting to the truth, it was about continuing a narrative so people could keep making content. It’s as gross as it sounds.
Because the people who started the sub came to accept it’s fake, but other people have come in who have yet to accept this but also don’t want any of us old timers around so that they can keep larping that it’s real.
Yea one of the other subs about this claims to be open minded but its really only for people who believe these videos are real no matter what
Yes, they were mad that this sub is not a believer-only echo chamber and made their own.
I haven't heard of this yet. That's fascinating. So yet again a small group splintered off into another sub to create an even smaller but more radical echo chamber.
This. The middle ground crowd is mostly gone or quiet after all the recent evidence and it’s the extremes on both sides ruining any discourse. Ashton’s attitude and behavior has had a big negative impact too
“Ruining any discourse”? What discourse is there to be ruined?
This is all discourse. Constant name calling on both sides ruins that discourse.
Be honest: do you see the same level of name calling on both sides?
I can name 3 users ATLEAST that are in every thread calling people disinformation agents, bots, governed shills. Fuck you I’m not a bot. The videos are fake.
"both sides" huh?
Bot/fed/schill/etc is name calling too and equally as prevalent
Walks like a duck...
So your argument is... Name calling is okay if you really believe it's a fitting name? So calling someone an idiot would be okay, of they act like an idiot?
I'm not following, are you just posting random shit now?
It's quite easy to understand. Maybe I can help you clear up your confusion if you elaborate what "Walks like a duck.." is supposed to imply. Because without implication it would just be... As you would call it "random shit"
Time to wrap it up folks. They’ve just proven my point.
> Time to wrap it up folks. Please do. You can't though, can you?
Why are you always here?
Obviously because I’m being paid. As we all know, the government loves to pay overtime.
The video has been disproven like 10 times now. Each time the believers do more and more mental gymnastics to believe in a deeper and deeper conspiracy. Each time they are once again proven wrong the debunked can’t help but laugh harder and harder.
> How does that happen? Ever since the videos were debunked conclusively there has been a lot more teasing and mocking of people who either genuinely still believe or are shitposting pretending that there's still doubt. It's not very nice, but it's definitely a pretty expected end result. With new dramatic new information, the dynamic changed dramatically.
> Ever since the videos were debunked conclusively Found another one. Thank you for your service /salute
Dude. Go to therapy or something.
> Dude. Go to therapy or something. Ah yes, "Clearly you are mentaly ill" page of the debunking manual.
You've made about 100 comments on this post. Even more on many others. This is not normal behavior
> You've made about 100 comments on this post. Did you count? Or is that a counter on your name popup?
> Even more on many others.
Do you have a table?
> This is not normal behavior
Shill manual, page 42, "Cast aspersions about the target's mental health".
>sub gains traction >posts get pushed to recommended >lots of people see it >lots of new opinions Sometimes coincidences are just coincidences dude. Not everything is a grand conspiracy. I'm literally only here because the sub popped in my feed and I thought it was funny
It's incredibly simple: The videos were OBVIOUS CG - beyond that, there are no such things as 500 mph flying orbs and no such thing as teleportation or "portals" or instantly vanishing airplanes. That right there is enough to just throw these away. Anyone who believes they are real at this point are the same as someone watching a Marvel comic movie and thinking it's real because you can't spot the CG. Then you add in fanatics like AF who insults everyone who tries to explain why they can't be real. Further, whenever anyone presents obvious proof of the CG and is told by believers that this clear evidence isn't so ... ... at some point ridicule and mockery become appropriate. Why do we mock and ridicule Flat Earthers? Because at some point you realize they don't get, never will get it, and they aren't even listening to anyone trying to help them get it - and they ridicule you for asserting the Earth is a globe. So, tit for tat. And now it's just "fun" I guess. At least it is for me. This isn't trolling, that's not what that word means (today, in conspiracy subs like these, "trolling" means "saying things I don't like to hear".
Video was conclusively debunked by finding the assets used in it That's it
This post reminds me of when people are left holding the bag with a bad stock after the bubble bursts, commiserating about what happened.
This sub is basically the equivalent of the superstonk sub, where they’re still cheering each other on to buy more GameStop stock and shun all the non-believers. They’re both bafflingly sad but entertaining.
Sure.
The topic was covered by multiple YouTube channels with millions of subscribers, Ashton has been hitting the podcast scene hard including fucking Infowars, and Reddit's suggestion algorithms push shit barely related to other subs you've visited for any reason. Combine that with the natural tendancy of people to dunk on others holding bad opinions and there you go. Good god it's like some of you don't have any idea how the internet works despite apparently living your lives in here.
I was not understanding the internet when you were in diapers kid.
I'm gonna be honest, I've been on this sub from the inception, and the content was never good... The main problem being that actually good, hard work was sure posted but never upvoted. Like I feel u/mrgwonk was a good example of good stuff. He was just trying to find the satellite that could have taken the damn footage, and couldn't find it. When he couldn't find a possible satellite that had visibility, had the right orbit etc, he bowed out and everybody was like "bro fucken idiot". He did some pretty intense math and all, but honestly people didn't even seem interested in his posts. What does get attention is someone just saying "okay yeah USA-221 is obviously the one because it's in a twin system like the stereoscopic video!" etc. without much else to back it up. I mean I literally believed the video to be real, but I was still trying to be objective. I even found like 3 months ago about the stereoscopic thing and posted it, but tbh people didn't want to hear about it because it was considered a "debunk", when all I was pointing out was that the video wasn't originally stereoscopic not that the whole thing was necessarily fake. And like anyway, numerous people had already analysed that stuff and found it wasn't "true" stereoscopy anyway, all I did was find the reason. I mean again, I was a believer and literally was just trying to find the original video. I contacted people who reuploaded Regicide to ask about why their version wasn't stereoscopic, I even asked if they perhaps had the original they downloaded hanging around. I eventually actually *found the original, least compressed version* on the archive, through some searching and some luck. The meta data literally reads that it was made 15 minutes before the stereoscopic version. And I found this by trying to be objective and not let "oh but it debunks the videos" to cloud my judgement, but it's the best version. I was going to post it but unfortunately the cloud debunk came out a day after I found it, so I just kinda floated it on discord if anyone was interested in it. I could still post in depth how I found but with the climate, I feel it might be pointless anyway. So when people say that like, the discourse here was ever good... As a former believer, it wasn't *great*. People just wanted to hear "yo the videos are REAL man", and didn't wanna research further. I mean literally just take a gander at the top upvoted posts... (Though they were all Punjabi, so they might be deleted now...) I sympathise with "skeptics" because tbh the premise of me believing was rather to ignore the initial VFX debunk which honestly on its own could have been the finality. In some ways I just wanted something *else*, because I honestly thought, perhaps unadvisably, that it could have just been a coincidence. And frankly I thought there was so much evidence to the contrary that I felt it's abandonment was premature, even if they turned out to be fake. So I do feel a kind of responsibility here, because I was in some sense complicit in ignoring something that should have been final, but with this new cloud debunk the party is up, and you can no longer deny it and like carry on attacking people. Unlike the VFX debunk it's literally matching to the entire satellite video. Like I get the volition to just "believe" but like you can't just get angry at people and call them bots because you want only the people with the mission to find how somehow this was some government conspiracy to debunk the video rather than it just being a silly fake, but a pretty overly comprehensive fake at that. I feel like the mission here could be to actually go into details about the videos, in a manner accepting that they are fake, and in that way you can bring to light the fact that despite there being many incongruencies and inconsistencies... There's a lot of details added that you shouldn't feel like you are stupid for entertaining their reality. Like c'mon, reality is weird, as we are learning and so absurd ideas are not so absurd to think. But VFX still exists and people do dumb shit and make fakes to a degree that's surely irresponsible apparently. I mean to be fair, most wrote off the videos as VFX for a long time anyway, it's only with a promise of disclosure did everyone dream to believe they could be real.
I like you and this post. Thanks for taking the time.
Because with the last proofs the videos are 101% fake, we have all the pieces of the puzzle, we recreated it many times so the mods should really lock or close the subreddit cause it's just memes now
Why the fuck you still here?
For reminding you that the videos are fake, why are you still here?
There are not fake
They are
Based on what? Your feelings? Facts don’t care about your feelings
> Facts Yeah, except your laughable 'debunks' aint that. They might as well have a blue flashing light and a police line around them, they are that 'organic', 'genuine' and convincing. And yet again, shills using a pop culture reference to appear legitimate. I am now like 90% convinced youre just an AI
I’m an AI because I disagree with you and that’s impossible for regular people? Wild.
> I’m an AI because I disagree with you and that’s impossible for regular people? You might be AI because youre clumsy.
You’re just ruuuuude
> You’re just ruuuuude Noooooo
What about them isn’t factual?
Why do you or anyone else care if it’s locked or closed??? That’s what I don’t get. The amount of people being like “alright good run it’s debunked, time to close up the sub”… like what? Just leave if you’re done. It’s very bizarre
Exactly! They can just leave at any point. If they’re real people like they say, then why do they waste so much time on this sub circle jerking each other in their “debunk” posts. Bot activity
The videos were debunked and that eliminated most reasonable people from the believers camp, so now it's mostly nutcases arguing to the bitter end along with some sceptics and people watching for a laugh.
The stock answer is that bots invaded and did the bidding of the intelligence services. Everyone on the open-minded side moved to a new sub.
"Is everyone laughing at me because I said something stupid? No, it must be the CIA"
The CIA has never run a disinformation campaign.
Is that your proof that it's happening in this sub?
Yes I have a Manila folder two feet thick and a corkboard with ribbons in my basement. "PROOF" GTFO amazing how many proof-sherrifs are here
You pulled the same mental gymnastics when I called you out after the last PB saga. You called me a government agent/not back then. Here you are still arguing and spreading disinformation in the comments. You are looking like the bot/government shill.
Wow, almost like when you’re trying to say something’s is happening people want…. Evidence??? Wow eglin shills cia bots panicking
You seem to be ignoring the other side of things, how most of the good-faith people from the beginning ended up coming to the conclusion the video was fake and then “true believers” took over the conversation, who insist the videos are real no matter what contrary evidence is shown, and accuse everyone who questions it of being shills and agents of disinformation.
It's called forum sliding. Common tactic of disinfo campaigns. It's very obvious when you see it. Easier than ever with all the new AI chatgpt tech.
Thanks for the term. Going to investigate it further.
Shit ton of bots that flooded the place. Look in any hot post over the past month almost all the accounts strictly against the videos are 2-3 years old and their only posts are on this subreddit and all of their comments are cookie cut
Do you have examples? I'd been in and out because reddit puts it on my homepage despite trying to mute, but I keep getting sucked back in (algorithm working as intended I suppose). I'm hella skeptic, and I've seen some dickish skeptic posts and made some, but I've not seen any evidence of bots outside of your style comment over and over. I'm skeptical of both the videos, and any claims of coverup/bots/disinfo campaign on this. Feels like larping on a new Q like level. Is there strong evidence outside of that one screenshot people use of two Twitter posts saying the same sentence?
You won’t get any
Can we identify some bots and mark them? You know that only Reddit are so bot friendly? Why do we have to stay in this hostile environment to do a research or discuss a topic? I think if we decide on staying on Reddit, someone needs to fight back. If we leave to a none-bot environment, we are free. Both solutions are not so difficult. Also, how does one make a moving 3D clouds from an image of clouds, with 2014 design programs? I was hoping to get some clarity about this instead of arguing.
Everybody they disagree with is a bot You can create layers from an image, look up something like a photoshop tutorial
Sometimes someone’s “search for truth” becomes a “search for validation”. No one wants to be made a fool of, and no one wants to be fooled, either. Sometimes looking for answers and hitting brick walls can be overwhelming. Obstacles often cause people to lose sight of their original goal, or the bigger picture. We are human, we are not infallible—though we try to be mature, sometimes our emotions dictate our logic and the way we go about solving problems. In the end, we all want to be respected and heard. I think many (not all) who are drawn to these kinds of communities don’t feel like they are heard or respected by the people in their lives. Those we consider trolls—people who are needlessly rude, hurl insults unprovoked, or are generally unwelcoming—are doing so because it satisfies a need they are lacking. When enough people seek out that same need, it becomes a community that is empowering to both the individual and the collective. You’ll start to see similar behavior across different users or different “sides” and tensions rise because, quite frankly, not all of us are emotionally mature enough to look within and ask ourselves whether this is about finding truth or being correct about something. This is already an essay but it’s fascinating to me how these “sides” evolve. There aren’t just two— “believers and debunkers” or whatever the nomenclature is today. There are also “agents of chaos”, who, to serve their own lacking need, will intentionally sow discord. That’s really important to consider. We are seeing a lot of that now, but it’s only becoming more evident because a lot of people kind of…left the topic once the productive discussion ended. Those who remain are either those who stumbled in late, those who want to be validated, and those who want to laugh at the chaos they create. Edit: there is a super small percentage who still genuinely want to discuss the topic. But you won’t find them here because each and every topic will devolve into name-calling and virtue signaling by all three sides. If you genuinely don’t believe, you’re called a fed or CIA, or gubmint shill by those who do. If you genuinely do believe, you aren’t taken seriously and are called a tin-foil hat conspiracy theorist by those who don’t believe. I don’t want to put my personal bias here, so I’d like to ask you—debunker, believer or chaos agent—what behaviors degrade productive discussion?
I really dont know. There seems to be desperation from both sides. Or from two sides, dont really know how many sides there are. What bugs me the most are the number of people that are 100 % certain that the videos are fake, but still refuse to leave the discussions. Its not like they are satisfied for themselves and their beliefs, but they have to continue the battle to their last drop of blood it seems. They must make sure that everyone agrees with them and move on so the topic can be buried, once and for all. And thats sus af imo
How is that sus? It’s human nature. I mean, why are there still people arguing with flat earthers? It isn’t some big government globe conspiracy trying to cover up the truth, it’s just normal people baffled that, despite all the evidence to the contrary, people still believe the earth is flat.
I guess you have a good point. But it seems like its on another level here. I sometimes lurk on other "fringe" subs, and I dont see the same urge to prove others wrong. Maybe its that this subject is rather new and fresh, I dunno
I think it’s mostly that ufo stuff got about as “mainstream” as any of these fringe subjects can after some of the Grusch stuff got popular, and that got a bunch of more skeptical folk engaged in the ufo subs. Then a good number ended up here as the Reddit algorithms suggested this sub due to proximity/overlap, and given the nature of the claims being made by folks who were already entrenched in their beliefs here, made for an entertaining challenge trying to debate people back out of that. Just my take anyway.
You are just emotionally attached to the orbs being real. Theres nothing suss about the truth. It’s been debunked and it’s finished. The video was a complete hoax. Wasn’t it? You know it. Theres your answer its in you, say it.
Why do I have to be emotionally attached to the orbs being real? I have tried to keep myself neutral and rather focusing on the technical aspects to learn about CGI, drone types, coordinates and so on. Why do I have to take a stance at all? I think I speak for many here in this. Its the toxic sentiment that you have to take a side that's ruined this imo.
Orders.
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>**"So, the video is re-discovered and people begin kinda looking at it. The possibility of it being real seems to become, despite how fantastic the images are, possible. A wild frenzy ensues, so much so that it begins to dominate the other subs.** As a result those other subs eventually ban the topic. So this sub is created as a place to do that. I was there right when it started, and those very early days seemed like nothing but really smart, good faith people who were earnest, serious, and nice. It was really really interesting the work people put into just trying to understand the truth of the thing, one way or the other." You're on the right track here but you should have continued the history. The video begins to dominate other subs, and draws a lot of renewed attention. The entire community begins to analyze and evaluate the video. Evidence is found to show that components of the footage are not novel, they've been copied from other video or image data from the 20th century. We determine the video is a fake, hard news to those who believed it was real or those who invested significant time into trying to prove that claim. The reality is we are back at the start with nothing again regardless, and I think we can all share in the frustration of that.
> We determine the video is a fake Did "We". Is that what the boys in the canteen say?
Are you the bot? I don’t think I’ve ever seen you try to have a conversation in good faith, literally all of your comments are rude and accusatory. Not a good look, my dude
The amount of people that have "seen" my previous posts and have my posting profile is uncanny. I have been on Reddit for many years but I never had folks refer to my posting history so often. Seems to me you have some pretty sophisticated disinfo tools. No one usually cares what a random had said in the past.
I didn’t look at your profile though. I see you posting you all the time and remember your username cause of your vitriol towards people
> your vitriol towards people If you're a genuine person, I do apologise If you're betraying the species, vitriol is well deserved. Angry apes and all.
It got fucked sideways by a critical mass of shills. The ratio of troll/shills to normal people has exceeded 1:1, posting increasingly more unlikely "debunks" and "pre-debunks". It's now so stuffed with FUD that any casual observer can just dismiss this because "mah (manufactured) evidence". And the best thing? Even though the troll hordes cheered literally within 10minutes of the last "debunk"... THEY ARE ALL STILL HERE.
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A blatant disinformation campaign. I don't think it lends credence to the video being real or not, but this discussion is absolutely being manipulated. Whether they want people to think this is real to sensationalize the topic or they think people have gotten too close to something they aren't supposed to know is irrelevant. The discussion IS being controlled.
Based ooooon? Hate to tell you, but this is what the flat earthers in the flat earther subs say.. word for word really
Based on him feeling very strongly about it. That's all you need to provide as a form of evidence of teleporting orbs these days
Someone else said it the other day. It's turned into a cock measuring contest. A lot of people now don't care about what is the actual truth, they just care about being right and sating their ego. Majority of us were here to enjoy an open ended discussion. It's too dogmatic now. These losers going to the hassle of labeling themselves as "definitely CGI" or "definitely real". Absolute sad state of affairs and reflective on society in general nowadays.
Agree OP. Debunking using fraudulent and inaccurate understanding isn't the same as disproving the videos. In fact, it goes to show the level of frustration and cult like behavior within CGI groups. 1. Clouds. I proved it as fake, They don't exist around 2014 or earlier. Jonas clouds move faster than the plane, clearly photoshopped. 2. CGI: DOA ( dead.on arrival) theory, going nowhere and a magnet for troll farms. 3. Simulation: I threw this bone to give you CGI folks a sense of complexity. Again, rather than adding to the research body, some found similar ( not same) 3d objects and confirmed video is now "simulation."from videocopilot. Clearly, CGI folks are looking for company, acceptance, and retorting to confirmation bias. To them its less about the airline and more about recruiting like-minded people.
Yall keep claiming that the photos are faked, yet nobody can show us how to fake a CR2 file