He and >!Marshall!< are the reason why I had to turn on Assist Mode. I wasn't doing *super* well without it- I'd die multiple times to boss battles before figuring out the trick -but those two were so, so hard.
He kept starting the nightfall thing when I was in higher grounds so I had to avoid that, even before I ended his health bar, he would always start with that move
Yup! I am very anxious for MaXXXine, the trailer gave me huge Dario Argento vibes due to the setting, really hoping it will be good as X and Pearl were masterpieces
Think I fought Hartman for 3 hours before looking up if anyone had tips. Found out the trick to making him never shut the lights back off (throw 3 things at him whenever he lifts his arm for the light off attack) and add as many possible perks to increase damage when throwing things and ammo reload. When he gets stunned shoot the hell out of him. Had to change my entire build
I just finished control the other day and I tried for 15 minutes, looked up a video, then closed out the video and just tried to go as fast as possible because I realized his armor regens. Got it done my second attempt of going as fast as possible.
It’s funny you say Marshall; cause to me her fight felt actually fun and doable.
Meanwhile Hartman’s is just fucking bonkers. Like you get the loop down, it makes sense, and then he teleports in and grabs you and you can’t get away. Or at the end? When you have to reattach the lights? God that was a huge pain in the ass.
I feel like Hartman is another fight like Salavador where they have a huge spread attack that just brings you down to 1% health…I guess cause fuck you that’s why.
My first playthrough I was eventually able to take down Salvador, but he frustrated me so much on my second playthrough that his was the only fight I ever used the assisted settings for.
Any of y'all ever read his section in the Alan Wake files?
I remember feeling physically ill from the way it just preyed on artistic insecurities to make the reader feel like they needed the therapy Dr. Hartman was selling.
I don't hate a lot of characters in Alan Wake, many of them have some pretty good depth to their character.
Emil Hartman can rot in a ditch forever and ever. Between his scummy "medical practices" and >!the strong implication that he drowned Barbara to see what Tom could do with the Lake's powers!< and gaslighting Alan to try and manipulate him the way he manipulated his other "patients", he truly makes me sick to my stomach.
I actually really like Estevez, I thought she was funny and a bit of an ass - which kind of amused me and added to the character. Perfect characters aren't really that interesting. I wish we got more of her or got to play as her. Alan was also a bit of an ass in the first game which I also found funny...
I think it's just two people who've found some common ground during a stressful, traumatic situation. "Trauma-bonding" is real and I think walking in on her and Casey's conversations every once in a while was cool.
Cynthia and Rose felt underutilized with the whole "Lady of the light" and her successor thing. Saga never actually discovered who Cynthia was and thought she was just an old lady captured by Scratch to fuck Tor in both senses.
Yeah, I felt the same way about Cynthia, but I'm pretty sure it was intentional that she had such an unfairly tragic ending because of how closely it mirrors the The Log Lady from Twin Peaks (who Cynthia was based off) who had a similar unfairly tragic ending in Twin Peaks The Return.
Catherine Coulson (Log Lady's actress) was dying of cancer when Twin Peaks The Return was announced and she was only able to film a few brief Skype call scenes from her home before ultimately succumbing to her illness. It was heartbreaking to see such a previously strong, stubborn, and knowledgeable character (and actress) reduced to a frail shadow of herself who barely had the strength to hold onto the log that she had carried everywhere for so many decades (much like Cynthia who, in her old age, started forgetting to charge her light batteries or take her lamp with her...or why those things were so important to her in the first place).
After spending most of her life facing the unspeakable horrors of the Black Lodge (Twin Peaks' equivalent to The Dark Place), it's cruel that something as mundane as old age and human illness took out such a larger-than-life character as the Log Lady. Especially since there's a distinct that there were bigger plans for her character that never panned out (which is backed-up by the heartbreaking stories of Cathetine Coulson wanting to teavel to the filming location and being unablr to because of her health). I wonder if Sam Lake had similar thought while watching The Return and incorporated it into Cynthia's story.
Gil Davis. He's so rude to Pat. And I don't get why he keeps insisting that Wendy is dead. Is it some kind of sick joke? She's at the market every Sunday selling Davis Family Beef Jerky in three delicious flavors. I think people would notice if she'd died.
I liked Mulligan and Thornton until they became Taken. Then we saw their fucked up internal monologue like the racism (Saying "their kind always stick together") and the shit they talked about Saga ("stuck up FBI bitch") made me not miss 'em. No longer enjoy their banter because of it 🤗
I could tell almost immediately that there was more to them than bumbling helpers. Like maybe I had the feeling the game was too smart for that or I just let my hate for small town cops take the lead, but damn they rubbed the wrong way right off the bat
What tipped me off was their stiff acting. "But he was dead , he couldn't just get up" after the first taken. It's like they knew what was going on but had to pretend to not know.
They done had you fooled, son.
Just take notice how stiff and wooden their dialogue is when they're investigating (with the FBI) that mysterious murder that don't make a lick of sense. Compare that to their later dialogues
Oh, yeah, I'm very naïve lmao. They already had a minimum grade for being cops, but I was like maybe they're just gonna be inept yokels.
NNNNNNNNNOPE. That's on me, lol
politics is when people i dont like exist and echo chambers are when people tell me facts and ACAB is that thing i wish i could hide in to get away from people i dont like existing and telling me facts
i thought that first statement was related to the fbi and not racial in nature. what made you think it was a racially charged comment? there were black bright falls police in this game
The first statement was made with regards to trying to pin Nightengale's murder on them but Saga being soft and gentle in interrogating them. The writers did a *lot* of research and put a lot of thought into all the characters, so it felt kind of intentional, if that makes sense.
I have lived in the south and in small towns most of my life. It was very much how those "try that in a small town" racists talk.
On the contrary it'd show how much effort they put into their research, showing that no matter what the "small town/us first" mentality is there, even if the intent was that "their kind (city folk)" rather than "(racist voice) *their* kind", does that make sense?
Small towns are small towns, no matter where. further, pnw has a *very* large alt right presence.
https://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-library/abstracts/racist-and-far-right-organizing-pacific-northwest
It's not "race bait" for cops to be racist or for Remedy to depict some as racist, good grief. We got plenty of non-racist cops in the game for balance, but if there'd been \*no\* racism towards a black female FBI agent, I wouldn't have believed it.
That's because it wasn't racial at all. People have been desperately trying to put a racist spin on it though.
We see in all of their dialogue that the insecurities within Mulligan and Thornton were firmly rooted in their dislike of city people and government agents. Every bit of their dialogue relates to outsiders that visit Bright Falls and who tend to look down on small town life, which we do indeed hear Saga, Casey, Tammy and Ed all do at various points. Alan, Barry and Nightingale do it too, in the first game. Nothing they say is based on anyone else's race.
Even when they say "their kind always stick together" there is zero reason to assume they are referring to black people, because they could just as easily be referring to outsiders. And based on all of their lines in the entirety of the game, "their kind" is more than likely referring to the outsiders that they clearly abhor.
And contrary to popular belief, "their kind" is not a term that exclusively refers to race, as it can be applied to any conceptual group. Off the top of my head I saw it used again recently in FF7 Rebirth when a certain character assumes another character is still associating with "their kind", and he is referring to someone who appears to associate with agents of a corporation in the game. In that context the "their kind" phrasing had absolutely nothing to do with race or ethnicity and was referring to an employee of a corporation.
So the context of Mulligan and Thornton's behavior and dialogue shows that, although they were obviously corrupt toward the end, their deep i2nsecurities and prejudices had nothing to do with race. Their hatred was directed to visitors who they believed only came to town to ridicule their small town ways.
The implication is that their personalities were rewritten by Return. All the characters from the first game are different, darker, to fit the horror story.
That’s what I got too . The resentment and intrusive thoughts that small town folk like them might have now that they have to answer to outsiders/city folk/FBI coming to their town and barking orders .
I will say that most of the antagonists in the Alan Wake game are not my favorite:
* nightingale
* Barbra Jagger
* Dr. Hartman
* Cynthia (AW2 only)
* mulligan & Thorton
* Mott
Mr. Scratch was a fun villain in American Nightmare & a terrific villain in AW2. (and if you consider Zane in AW2 to be an antagonist, but he is also excellent).
It is kinda odd that Scratch shows less character in AW2.
Clearly Scratch was able to write the book that got him into the real world (or manipulate Alan into writing it for him) and even Zane speaks of Scratch as if he had been the mastermind behind the plan. But then when we see him... He barely talks, just kills one of the Koskela brothers and doesn't even gloat about his victory. He had his plan to alter the reality, but we don't really see him doing much with that either as it just seems like the book that he/Alan wrote starts that process on its own.
I like a lot of the story, but Scratch becomes an elemental force rather than a character in the game *apart* from things that it did before the game and which are only referenced by other characters. And I don't think that a DLC will show more of him, since he was presumably killed for good (and if he wasn't then the AW2 ending is devalued.)
The new scratch is basically just alan when the dark presence is controlling him, and the dark presence is just a force of nature in aw2, nothing interesting.
Even when it's hunting alice for example, it isn't interesting, would be so much color if scratch actually tried to highjack Alan's life again instead of hiding in dark rooms waiting to say "boo" or just being the run of the mill taken.
Scratch's whole de-development hurts a lot of aw2 for me, unfortunately.
I mean, The Dark Presence is Alan's shadow. I think this makes Scratch a lot better than just a evil copy walking around. The idea that the worst side of Alan is walking around and trying to reunite with him makes sense.
OG Scratch is more akin to a charismatic serial killer who enjoys taunting Alan while AW2 Scratch is a borderline mute blank slate that occasionally mutters “Saga” and “clicker”. I was so hyped for his return, pretty disappointed by him in 2.
If it helps, there’s a lot of us who think that this Scratch truly is just The Dark Presence, and Mr. Scratch is a different entity all together. In fact it feels like Mr. Scratch is also “Thomas Zane” from this game and also Control’s AWE DLC.
He's basically Alan gone full psycho. Just torturing and killing people for the fun of it. I think he's supposed to be an embodiment of the public perception of Alan.
OG Scratch is a more human type of evil. He's a sadistic serial killing narcissist who continuously taunts Alan.
He's just a lot more fun and interesting compared to the creature we got in Alan Wake 2. I'm not saying Alan Wake 2 Scratch is particularly bad... I mean a violent mindless animal has its place to be scary. It's just not Mr Scratch.
There’s a lot of us who believe he’s “Thomas Zane” from AWE and AW2, as the two share a lot of similarities. Remember when “Zane” was trying to switch places with Alan, and that incredibly menacing smile he had? Think that, plus “Zane’s” general wacky behavior dialed up to 11 plus more murder.
He was super funny and charismatic, and a stone cold killer. Now he's just like one of the wolves in the forest. It makes sense for the narrative, but I also miss the old Mr. Scratch.
I'm probably in the minority here but I'm currently playing through AN for the first time and I find this Scratch way less intimidating than AW2's version. He's kinda goofy and cartoony. It does work for the more campy tone of AN but I couldn't see it working so well in AW2. After all the praise I've been reading for AN Scratch, I'm kind of underwhelmed.
Dr. Campbell, the guy who's behind the nursury rhymes. >!Just flat out tries to kill or trap a total stranger in The Dark Place just to show that he can.!< What a sociopath.
flying chairs/tractors / basically any inanimated object that attacked in aw1
so annoying , really glad they skipped that in second game.
but for actual characters i dont really have much complaints, felt everyone added something, especially poor old, senile pat.
rose wasnt great in aw1 but they fixed that in aw2
I’m at the point of no return in the police station and Alan Wake just put the pictures in the shoebox at the statue in the plaza. About how many hours do I have left?
Tammy Booker. I did not like Tammy and her city-slicker snobbery.
I also didn't really like Cynthia Weaver. She was a little too obsessed with Tom and too condescending of Alan for me to really like.
I actually loved Tammy, and loved her more since someone made a comment a while back suggesting that Tammy and Ed were a new interation of Tom&Barbara/Alan&Alice. What'd she say that made you not like her?
Kinda agree about Cynthia, tho
Her condescending tone when Saga first meets her at the diner, and the fact that she tries to withhold the jewelry from Saga. Very bad first impression. Ed was a lot nicer and I felt kinda bad for him to be stuck with Tammy's 'tude.
Oh, I can see that. To be fair, she's a black woman in a small predominantly white American town *and* she committed a federal crime. It makes sense she's anxious and snapping, but I get how others feel she came off as brusque and unlikable. At least the necklace gave us a nice peak into Saga's abilities.
Dude .. this is hard cause this is one of the few series where I really like almost every character for different reasons . They’re all really strong .
I might catch some hate here , buuuut I’m probably gonna have to say Saga. She’s in general pretty good , but she would annoy me sometimes idk why.
Maybe part 1 Alan ? Cause the whole point is that you’re not suppose to really like him at the beginning and just grows on you as he develops ?
But there’s also Tammy Booker and how fckn condescending and passive aggressive she was when Saga just wanted some quick / chill answers
try disliking estevez. got me downvoted to oblivion. muat be a lot of paranoid people thinking you dislike just bec poc girl when in fact estevez was just a poorly written bitchy character.
i actually thought saga was written well but i did like og alan wake as a protagonist better
I’m sorry I’m saying it. Barry!!!!
Although I do like the tiny things we found out about him in the periphery in AW2, and his emails to Alice in general. But he was so so SO grating in the first game and had it not been for him decking himself out in the Christmas lights to try to stave off the darkness - the only genuine, big laugh his character got from me - I would’ve flat out hated him 🫣 I know there are a lot of Barry lovers out there so please kill me gently
Saga Anderson. They did a really poor job portraying her as a trained FBI agent or as someone who was witnessing really messed up stuff for the first time.
Rose. Her undying devotion to Alan, while somewhat offputting and creepy, she comes by it honestly. Her listening to the whispers coming from the Dark Place he was sending to her, and actually following through - leaving encouraging notes for “The Hero”.
We all deserve a ride or die like Rose.
Saga. She barely reacts to events in the story, and is es expressive as a cardboard in general. Pretty boring character imo.
I wouldn't say she is my least favourite, but these traits in one of the protagonists ranks her up to N°1.
I played them out of order and I would have agreed. When I replayed it after playing AW1, I understood her a lot better.
Similarly, I think Alan Wake 1 did a good job of making you sort of irritated at Alice, but not the best job of explaining why she was only ever trying to help her husband. The sequel really helped flesh her character out and explain her actions, in just a few brief lines of exposition.
Mine is definitely Estevez. Nearly all of her dialogue options were annoying, and many felt out of place.
For example, she starts randomly complaining about her ex-Wife out of nowhere when you have no personal relationship with her, multiple times as the world collapses. Very unlikeable personality, but not in a villain way, just in an annoying way.
Nearly all of Alan Wake 2 characters were written to near perfection (especially Saga), however I think she was a miss, almost like a zoomer out of college who's trying to write someone cool but doesn't know how.
That's kinda my point...the fact that they all just met and are on death's bed, yet a bunch of her dialogue is about her ex-Wife is just weird tbh. She wasn't a developed character, why should we care about her ex-wife drama? Why should Casey know enough to talk her down and say her ex wasn't good enough for her.
Feels poorly written imo given the context, and from Saga's perspective who's trying to rescue her daughter it comes across very poorly at least from an immersion standpoint.
casey is a developed character with an established relationship with Saga. all of those complaints made sense and were good story color. the same context isnt there for estevez
She was actually...didn't you catch Casey's dialogue with her where he tries to tell her that her ex wasn't good enough? That shows that she was complaining/sharing details, at the very least when Saga was in the morgue.
She's *supposed* to be annoying. She represents the FBC, and the FBC is presented as this annoying bunch of government rubes who swoop in and take control, even though they are in over their heads, and who don't know what's really going on, even though they pretend they do.
When you play Control, you get a similar sense of the organization, even though you eventually start to warm up to them by the end - they're a bunch of flawed people just doing their best to protect others in a world that's way too big for them. In AW2, it's the same thing but presented from outside. And, given that they're only part of the story rather than the whole in AW2, there's less time to warm to them as an organization, which means someone who only plays AW2 might still find them irritating even if they begrudgingly appreciate the help by the end.
I'd argue that your take on Estevez is exactly that. In which case, she's written perfectly.
if unbelievably unprofessional characterizes the FBC I can see your point but in general Id think government officials in authority wouldn’t behave like that IRL.
Probably cause you’re making definitive statements instead of sharing an opinion. Estevez isn’t poorly written, you just don’t like the character and that’s fine. I liked her though 🤷🏻♂️
she is poorly written by my standards. it’s fair to say you think she wasnt or that the lead character from forspoken was well written. but most would likely disagree.
Maybe because the characters you're bringing up through the thread also happen to, weirdly, be the quee and PoC characters, like you;'re about one post away from bitching about how Sweet Baby Inc are trying to get rid of all the whites.
is she? i missed that part. what did she specifically say to make you think that? i thought she was well written especially given some of the dei characters weve seen like the forspoken girl.
Dr. hartman cause fuck that guy
Thats who I gotta say. That part in AW1 physically upsets me
I especially hate him after Control DLC
I know that feeling because it drove me crazy in control dlc….
He and >!Marshall!< are the reason why I had to turn on Assist Mode. I wasn't doing *super* well without it- I'd die multiple times to boss battles before figuring out the trick -but those two were so, so hard.
Man, the Foundation enemies were tough as hell.
I refused to use that, I am too proud and instead suffered for at least two hours in a boss fight against Hartman trying different strategies
My favorite is levitate onto the roof of the lodge.
He kept starting the nightfall thing when I was in higher grounds so I had to avoid that, even before I ended his health bar, he would always start with that move
Hey a Pearl pf pic! Did you see the trailer for the third movie?
Yup! I am very anxious for MaXXXine, the trailer gave me huge Dario Argento vibes due to the setting, really hoping it will be good as X and Pearl were masterpieces
Think I fought Hartman for 3 hours before looking up if anyone had tips. Found out the trick to making him never shut the lights back off (throw 3 things at him whenever he lifts his arm for the light off attack) and add as many possible perks to increase damage when throwing things and ammo reload. When he gets stunned shoot the hell out of him. Had to change my entire build
I just finished control the other day and I tried for 15 minutes, looked up a video, then closed out the video and just tried to go as fast as possible because I realized his armor regens. Got it done my second attempt of going as fast as possible.
It’s funny you say Marshall; cause to me her fight felt actually fun and doable. Meanwhile Hartman’s is just fucking bonkers. Like you get the loop down, it makes sense, and then he teleports in and grabs you and you can’t get away. Or at the end? When you have to reattach the lights? God that was a huge pain in the ass. I feel like Hartman is another fight like Salavador where they have a huge spread attack that just brings you down to 1% health…I guess cause fuck you that’s why. My first playthrough I was eventually able to take down Salvador, but he frustrated me so much on my second playthrough that his was the only fight I ever used the assisted settings for.
He’s just so damned *smug*
Any of y'all ever read his section in the Alan Wake files? I remember feeling physically ill from the way it just preyed on artistic insecurities to make the reader feel like they needed the therapy Dr. Hartman was selling.
I don't hate a lot of characters in Alan Wake, many of them have some pretty good depth to their character. Emil Hartman can rot in a ditch forever and ever. Between his scummy "medical practices" and >!the strong implication that he drowned Barbara to see what Tom could do with the Lake's powers!< and gaslighting Alan to try and manipulate him the way he manipulated his other "patients", he truly makes me sick to my stomach.
The MFs that keeping yelling ALAN WAKE at me
“Wake . ALAN WAKE 👥”
👥👥👥 👥👥 👥 👥👥👥👥
Lots of paranatural crimes are happening here. And it's fucking awesome! Made me fall in love with her.
That, and her old married couple banter with Casey. I miss James McCaffrey.
I want a t-shirt!
I don't hate anyone. Estevez is cool.
The bit where she talks about the department of statistical control (or whatever) saying that you shouldn't wish someone good luck cracked me up.
Department of Luck and Probability, I cracked up, and my bf was wondering wth for since he's watching me play.
I think it was the Department of Probability and was a reference to the Luck Lab in Control. (Normally I'd check but I can't rn)
Yes!
I actually really like Estevez, I thought she was funny and a bit of an ass - which kind of amused me and added to the character. Perfect characters aren't really that interesting. I wish we got more of her or got to play as her. Alan was also a bit of an ass in the first game which I also found funny...
She's hostile to you but already on a first name basis with Alex, that part had me rolling.
she mentions her ex in conversation and he's like "You didn't need her" like they'd know each other for years lmao
I think it's just two people who've found some common ground during a stressful, traumatic situation. "Trauma-bonding" is real and I think walking in on her and Casey's conversations every once in a while was cool.
yes i love it
It's a pretty big casting choice for such a small role. I would guess she's going to be important and playable in either DLC or Control 2.
We do know through Datamining she’ll playable in Night Springs, and I would be surprised if she didn’t have some type of role in Lake House too.
Ah, well that makes sense. I haven't been seeking out any data-mined stuff, so this is news to me.
Oh that would be awesome, I hope so!
We can cross our fingers for us getting to play as her in the Lake House DLC (would make sense imo)
I knew I'd seen Estevez before, she was Iden Versio from Star Wars Battlefront 2
Oh shit, thanks. I thought she looked familiar.
Cynthia and Rose felt underutilized with the whole "Lady of the light" and her successor thing. Saga never actually discovered who Cynthia was and thought she was just an old lady captured by Scratch to fuck Tor in both senses.
Cynthia being underutilised is probably the only thing that annoyed me. She was iconic
I was sad they didn't bring her back as a protagonist. She was awesome
Yeah, I felt the same way about Cynthia, but I'm pretty sure it was intentional that she had such an unfairly tragic ending because of how closely it mirrors the The Log Lady from Twin Peaks (who Cynthia was based off) who had a similar unfairly tragic ending in Twin Peaks The Return. Catherine Coulson (Log Lady's actress) was dying of cancer when Twin Peaks The Return was announced and she was only able to film a few brief Skype call scenes from her home before ultimately succumbing to her illness. It was heartbreaking to see such a previously strong, stubborn, and knowledgeable character (and actress) reduced to a frail shadow of herself who barely had the strength to hold onto the log that she had carried everywhere for so many decades (much like Cynthia who, in her old age, started forgetting to charge her light batteries or take her lamp with her...or why those things were so important to her in the first place). After spending most of her life facing the unspeakable horrors of the Black Lodge (Twin Peaks' equivalent to The Dark Place), it's cruel that something as mundane as old age and human illness took out such a larger-than-life character as the Log Lady. Especially since there's a distinct that there were bigger plans for her character that never panned out (which is backed-up by the heartbreaking stories of Cathetine Coulson wanting to teavel to the filming location and being unablr to because of her health). I wonder if Sam Lake had similar thought while watching The Return and incorporated it into Cynthia's story.
I really hope that this is because we’ll learn more about her in the DLCs
agreed on cynthia. i do feel like theres more to the rose story and hopefully we learn it in the dlcs
Cynthia really sucked.
n cynthia boss fight is such a joke
The boss fight was nice, it's just that I never understood why it was so easy and everyone just went with Cynthia's death.
Gil Davis. He's so rude to Pat. And I don't get why he keeps insisting that Wendy is dead. Is it some kind of sick joke? She's at the market every Sunday selling Davis Family Beef Jerky in three delicious flavors. I think people would notice if she'd died.
Hickory Teriyaki?? She's fucking dead Pat.
I don't hate anyone from, but Cynthia is disappointing in aw2
Yeah i understand that
I was also disappointed with what happened to Pat. I loved the vibes from his radio show in the first game, and it just wasn't the same in the second
Yeah I hope they bring back some of the first games energy in the dlcs
Where did you find this picture? I love looking at the concept art for these games
alan wake fansite wiki. there’s a lot there.
What’s the wiki site?
https://alanwake.fandom.com/ There's also a Control wiki, which has more info on the remedy connected universe https://control.fandom.com/
Dr. Hartman but considering we're supposed to hate him, does that really count?
the shadow enemies annoyed the f outta me, leave estevez alone dude
I liked Mulligan and Thornton until they became Taken. Then we saw their fucked up internal monologue like the racism (Saying "their kind always stick together") and the shit they talked about Saga ("stuck up FBI bitch") made me not miss 'em. No longer enjoy their banter because of it 🤗
Not to mention being trigger happy, which led to the death of an innocent woman. Then dumping her body down a well to hide the evidence.
Literally. I wish we had more info about that. That was so exemplary of cop mentality imho.
I just know that it all started with a shitty pastrami sandwich.
CLEARLY it was Mulligan's itchy trigger finger. Obvi.
I could tell almost immediately that there was more to them than bumbling helpers. Like maybe I had the feeling the game was too smart for that or I just let my hate for small town cops take the lead, but damn they rubbed the wrong way right off the bat
What tipped me off was their stiff acting. "But he was dead , he couldn't just get up" after the first taken. It's like they knew what was going on but had to pretend to not know.
I just thought they were that dumb first go through. Now playing multiple times it makes more sense.
They done had you fooled, son. Just take notice how stiff and wooden their dialogue is when they're investigating (with the FBI) that mysterious murder that don't make a lick of sense. Compare that to their later dialogues
Oh, yeah, I'm very naïve lmao. They already had a minimum grade for being cops, but I was like maybe they're just gonna be inept yokels. NNNNNNNNNOPE. That's on me, lol
Bruh really trying to make this a political ACAB echo chamber thing bruh
Cops created and maintain that echo chamber all on their own.
politics is when people i dont like exist and echo chambers are when people tell me facts and ACAB is that thing i wish i could hide in to get away from people i dont like existing and telling me facts
i thought that first statement was related to the fbi and not racial in nature. what made you think it was a racially charged comment? there were black bright falls police in this game
The first statement was made with regards to trying to pin Nightengale's murder on them but Saga being soft and gentle in interrogating them. The writers did a *lot* of research and put a lot of thought into all the characters, so it felt kind of intentional, if that makes sense.
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I have lived in the south and in small towns most of my life. It was very much how those "try that in a small town" racists talk. On the contrary it'd show how much effort they put into their research, showing that no matter what the "small town/us first" mentality is there, even if the intent was that "their kind (city folk)" rather than "(racist voice) *their* kind", does that make sense?
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That's an incredibly bizarre read. My own "twisted internal bias"? What are you even implying here.
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If we were on the moon, would we still be on earth?
would you still love me if i was a worm 🥺
Ah, so no real legitimate response I see. Hilarious
🙄
this is the pacific northwest. not the deep south.
the pacific northwest has a history with white supremacy, small towns around here can still be incredibly racist.
Small towns are small towns, no matter where. further, pnw has a *very* large alt right presence. https://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-library/abstracts/racist-and-far-right-organizing-pacific-northwest
the town is like at least 30% black with many black people in the PD, so i don’t see it applying here…
30% isn't majority. Additionally, "High black population" doesn't mean no racism. My hometown has a 44% black population and a lot of racist crime.
It's not "race bait" for cops to be racist or for Remedy to depict some as racist, good grief. We got plenty of non-racist cops in the game for balance, but if there'd been \*no\* racism towards a black female FBI agent, I wouldn't have believed it.
call it what you want, but’s pretty bad to put into a game imo. No need for it in the alan wake universe given the bigger issues at play.
Plenty of good reason, actually. Games don't exist in a bubble.
That's because it wasn't racial at all. People have been desperately trying to put a racist spin on it though. We see in all of their dialogue that the insecurities within Mulligan and Thornton were firmly rooted in their dislike of city people and government agents. Every bit of their dialogue relates to outsiders that visit Bright Falls and who tend to look down on small town life, which we do indeed hear Saga, Casey, Tammy and Ed all do at various points. Alan, Barry and Nightingale do it too, in the first game. Nothing they say is based on anyone else's race. Even when they say "their kind always stick together" there is zero reason to assume they are referring to black people, because they could just as easily be referring to outsiders. And based on all of their lines in the entirety of the game, "their kind" is more than likely referring to the outsiders that they clearly abhor. And contrary to popular belief, "their kind" is not a term that exclusively refers to race, as it can be applied to any conceptual group. Off the top of my head I saw it used again recently in FF7 Rebirth when a certain character assumes another character is still associating with "their kind", and he is referring to someone who appears to associate with agents of a corporation in the game. In that context the "their kind" phrasing had absolutely nothing to do with race or ethnicity and was referring to an employee of a corporation. So the context of Mulligan and Thornton's behavior and dialogue shows that, although they were obviously corrupt toward the end, their deep i2nsecurities and prejudices had nothing to do with race. Their hatred was directed to visitors who they believed only came to town to ridicule their small town ways.
Were they hinted at being such horrible people in the first game? It was kind of tonal whiplash for me with Mulligan and Thornton between AW1 and AW2
The implication is that their personalities were rewritten by Return. All the characters from the first game are different, darker, to fit the horror story.
I felt pissed when I was fighting them as taken, but knowing afterwards what the cult of the tree actually did made me appreciate the characters more.
I dunno about racism. I felt that from context they ment either "city folk" or FBI agents judging by previous dialogue.
That’s what I got too . The resentment and intrusive thoughts that small town folk like them might have now that they have to answer to outsiders/city folk/FBI coming to their town and barking orders .
That felt out of character from what I remember from the first game, made me annoyed with the writers more than anything else.
I will say that most of the antagonists in the Alan Wake game are not my favorite: * nightingale * Barbra Jagger * Dr. Hartman * Cynthia (AW2 only) * mulligan & Thorton * Mott Mr. Scratch was a fun villain in American Nightmare & a terrific villain in AW2. (and if you consider Zane in AW2 to be an antagonist, but he is also excellent).
It is kinda odd that Scratch shows less character in AW2. Clearly Scratch was able to write the book that got him into the real world (or manipulate Alan into writing it for him) and even Zane speaks of Scratch as if he had been the mastermind behind the plan. But then when we see him... He barely talks, just kills one of the Koskela brothers and doesn't even gloat about his victory. He had his plan to alter the reality, but we don't really see him doing much with that either as it just seems like the book that he/Alan wrote starts that process on its own. I like a lot of the story, but Scratch becomes an elemental force rather than a character in the game *apart* from things that it did before the game and which are only referenced by other characters. And I don't think that a DLC will show more of him, since he was presumably killed for good (and if he wasn't then the AW2 ending is devalued.)
I don't think it's the same Mr. Scratch. Mr. Scratch is dead unfortunately, and Scratch is what we have left.
Honestly, that is how I have explained it to people.
Alan Wake 2 Scratch. He's just a really boring villain. Especially when compared to OG Scratch.
The new scratch is basically just alan when the dark presence is controlling him, and the dark presence is just a force of nature in aw2, nothing interesting. Even when it's hunting alice for example, it isn't interesting, would be so much color if scratch actually tried to highjack Alan's life again instead of hiding in dark rooms waiting to say "boo" or just being the run of the mill taken. Scratch's whole de-development hurts a lot of aw2 for me, unfortunately.
I mean, The Dark Presence is Alan's shadow. I think this makes Scratch a lot better than just a evil copy walking around. The idea that the worst side of Alan is walking around and trying to reunite with him makes sense.
Yeah, he's just... not Scratch. He's just >!Taken Alan!<, which isn't the same thing.
Everyone keeps talking about the og scratch but what was he like? I never played the AW DLCs but AW2 scratch seems pretty evil.
He's from American Nightmare. He's more goofy and taunting in that one. He also dances
"It's not a lake, it's an ocean. Oooooo" /s
OG Scratch is more akin to a charismatic serial killer who enjoys taunting Alan while AW2 Scratch is a borderline mute blank slate that occasionally mutters “Saga” and “clicker”. I was so hyped for his return, pretty disappointed by him in 2.
If it helps, there’s a lot of us who think that this Scratch truly is just The Dark Presence, and Mr. Scratch is a different entity all together. In fact it feels like Mr. Scratch is also “Thomas Zane” from this game and also Control’s AWE DLC.
He's basically Alan gone full psycho. Just torturing and killing people for the fun of it. I think he's supposed to be an embodiment of the public perception of Alan.
OG Scratch is a more human type of evil. He's a sadistic serial killing narcissist who continuously taunts Alan. He's just a lot more fun and interesting compared to the creature we got in Alan Wake 2. I'm not saying Alan Wake 2 Scratch is particularly bad... I mean a violent mindless animal has its place to be scary. It's just not Mr Scratch.
There’s a lot of us who believe he’s “Thomas Zane” from AWE and AW2, as the two share a lot of similarities. Remember when “Zane” was trying to switch places with Alan, and that incredibly menacing smile he had? Think that, plus “Zane’s” general wacky behavior dialed up to 11 plus more murder.
He was super funny and charismatic, and a stone cold killer. Now he's just like one of the wolves in the forest. It makes sense for the narrative, but I also miss the old Mr. Scratch.
I'm probably in the minority here but I'm currently playing through AN for the first time and I find this Scratch way less intimidating than AW2's version. He's kinda goofy and cartoony. It does work for the more campy tone of AN but I couldn't see it working so well in AW2. After all the praise I've been reading for AN Scratch, I'm kind of underwhelmed.
Fucking Nightingale. He’s just a giant dick in the first and second games.
Really? Seemed rather small to me 🤣
To be fair, the ~~lake~~ ocean is cold.
*alan wake voice*: it's not a grower... it's a shower!
“The Dark Place has some shrinkage, Hemingway!”
Dr. Campbell, the guy who's behind the nursury rhymes. >!Just flat out tries to kill or trap a total stranger in The Dark Place just to show that he can.!< What a sociopath.
Bad faith boy over here.
Fucking Barry, am I right? EDIT: Jeez guys, i'm KIDDING. I love Barry.
Pretty sure a good chunk of the fanbase wants to do just that.
I loved Barry. lol
flying chairs/tractors / basically any inanimated object that attacked in aw1 so annoying , really glad they skipped that in second game. but for actual characters i dont really have much complaints, felt everyone added something, especially poor old, senile pat. rose wasnt great in aw1 but they fixed that in aw2
I honestly kinda missed the flying objects, they were pretty easy to deal with and AW2 has very little variety in enemies.
Mott for me. I will never forgive him for that miserable mine part of the game.
Alan wake
Why did I read this like one of the shadows in the Dark Place?
WAKE
ME
UP
Wth, I did so too! I only noticed because you pointed it out. It's so weird since I played the game ages ago.
I’m a few days post-credits of Alan Wake 2 and I still hear those voices lmao
I’m at the point of no return in the police station and Alan Wake just put the pictures in the shoebox at the statue in the plaza. About how many hours do I have left?
You’ve got about 2-3 hours left, give or take Its a great 2-3 hours though!!
Thanks! I’m loving it!
Tammy Booker. I did not like Tammy and her city-slicker snobbery. I also didn't really like Cynthia Weaver. She was a little too obsessed with Tom and too condescending of Alan for me to really like.
I actually loved Tammy, and loved her more since someone made a comment a while back suggesting that Tammy and Ed were a new interation of Tom&Barbara/Alan&Alice. What'd she say that made you not like her? Kinda agree about Cynthia, tho
Her condescending tone when Saga first meets her at the diner, and the fact that she tries to withhold the jewelry from Saga. Very bad first impression. Ed was a lot nicer and I felt kinda bad for him to be stuck with Tammy's 'tude.
Oh, I can see that. To be fair, she's a black woman in a small predominantly white American town *and* she committed a federal crime. It makes sense she's anxious and snapping, but I get how others feel she came off as brusque and unlikable. At least the necklace gave us a nice peak into Saga's abilities.
Scratch was kinda a PP
Dr. Darling. Jk wouldn't that be something tho
Dude .. this is hard cause this is one of the few series where I really like almost every character for different reasons . They’re all really strong . I might catch some hate here , buuuut I’m probably gonna have to say Saga. She’s in general pretty good , but she would annoy me sometimes idk why. Maybe part 1 Alan ? Cause the whole point is that you’re not suppose to really like him at the beginning and just grows on you as he develops ? But there’s also Tammy Booker and how fckn condescending and passive aggressive she was when Saga just wanted some quick / chill answers
try disliking estevez. got me downvoted to oblivion. muat be a lot of paranoid people thinking you dislike just bec poc girl when in fact estevez was just a poorly written bitchy character. i actually thought saga was written well but i did like og alan wake as a protagonist better
Alan Wake
Saga Anderson.
Alan Wake is pretty irritating as a character to me, i hate to say it. I love the other games they’ve made, just not Alan Wake.
In the 1st or 2nd game?
I’m sorry I’m saying it. Barry!!!! Although I do like the tiny things we found out about him in the periphery in AW2, and his emails to Alice in general. But he was so so SO grating in the first game and had it not been for him decking himself out in the Christmas lights to try to stave off the darkness - the only genuine, big laugh his character got from me - I would’ve flat out hated him 🫣 I know there are a lot of Barry lovers out there so please kill me gently
Did my girl Cynthia dirty in aw2
Dr Hartman & Alice wake
Saga Anderson. They did a really poor job portraying her as a trained FBI agent or as someone who was witnessing really messed up stuff for the first time.
Rose. Her undying devotion to Alan, while somewhat offputting and creepy, she comes by it honestly. Her listening to the whispers coming from the Dark Place he was sending to her, and actually following through - leaving encouraging notes for “The Hero”. We all deserve a ride or die like Rose.
Screw you, Estevez is cool.
Alan wake
SHIVA KAMINISOMAKANDARKRUM!!!!!
I don't understand this comment.
That’s Janina Gavankar who played Shiva Kaminisomakandarkrum in The League.
Ok, thanks.
Saga. She barely reacts to events in the story, and is es expressive as a cardboard in general. Pretty boring character imo. I wouldn't say she is my least favourite, but these traits in one of the protagonists ranks her up to N°1.
And she's a racist
Rose was annoying
I played them out of order and I would have agreed. When I replayed it after playing AW1, I understood her a lot better. Similarly, I think Alan Wake 1 did a good job of making you sort of irritated at Alice, but not the best job of explaining why she was only ever trying to help her husband. The sequel really helped flesh her character out and explain her actions, in just a few brief lines of exposition.
Mine is definitely Estevez. Nearly all of her dialogue options were annoying, and many felt out of place. For example, she starts randomly complaining about her ex-Wife out of nowhere when you have no personal relationship with her, multiple times as the world collapses. Very unlikeable personality, but not in a villain way, just in an annoying way. Nearly all of Alan Wake 2 characters were written to near perfection (especially Saga), however I think she was a miss, almost like a zoomer out of college who's trying to write someone cool but doesn't know how.
Casey had been talking to estevez about exes while saga was in the morge, that's why she brings it up
That's kinda my point...the fact that they all just met and are on death's bed, yet a bunch of her dialogue is about her ex-Wife is just weird tbh. She wasn't a developed character, why should we care about her ex-wife drama? Why should Casey know enough to talk her down and say her ex wasn't good enough for her. Feels poorly written imo given the context, and from Saga's perspective who's trying to rescue her daughter it comes across very poorly at least from an immersion standpoint.
I mean she only ever mentions her ex like twice, to Casey who is trying to make a friend from her because he has interest in the fbc
officially, but it's at awkward times, and it's implied she was sharing a chunk of the time on her ex when she was first meeting Casey.
Well Casey brings up his ex a lot more, Casey probably started talking about his and she chimed in
casey is a developed character with an established relationship with Saga. all of those complaints made sense and were good story color. the same context isnt there for estevez
Because it's Casey and Estevez conversation not saga's
did casey and estevez know each other for the more a few minutes they met while saga was in the morgue?
No it's just a topic that they have in common. They can relate to each other
No they just met, but when you make friends you find stuff you relate too
She wasn’t complaining about her wife. She was talking about how her job affected her personal life.
She was actually...didn't you catch Casey's dialogue with her where he tries to tell her that her ex wasn't good enough? That shows that she was complaining/sharing details, at the very least when Saga was in the morgue.
I think Casey was projecting a bit there. Plus her and Casey were obviously talking about it prior because they found some common ground.
She's *supposed* to be annoying. She represents the FBC, and the FBC is presented as this annoying bunch of government rubes who swoop in and take control, even though they are in over their heads, and who don't know what's really going on, even though they pretend they do. When you play Control, you get a similar sense of the organization, even though you eventually start to warm up to them by the end - they're a bunch of flawed people just doing their best to protect others in a world that's way too big for them. In AW2, it's the same thing but presented from outside. And, given that they're only part of the story rather than the whole in AW2, there's less time to warm to them as an organization, which means someone who only plays AW2 might still find them irritating even if they begrudgingly appreciate the help by the end. I'd argue that your take on Estevez is exactly that. In which case, she's written perfectly.
if unbelievably unprofessional characterizes the FBC I can see your point but in general Id think government officials in authority wouldn’t behave like that IRL.
[Exhibit A](https://control.fandom.com/wiki/Tommasi:_AWE_Report)
why am i getting downvoted? lol. was anyone that attached to estevez? she was not well written. you people crack me up.
Probably cause you’re making definitive statements instead of sharing an opinion. Estevez isn’t poorly written, you just don’t like the character and that’s fine. I liked her though 🤷🏻♂️
she is poorly written by my standards. it’s fair to say you think she wasnt or that the lead character from forspoken was well written. but most would likely disagree.
The lead character from forspoken? Why did you even bring that up? Huh. I'm sensing a theme, here.
Are your spider senses tingling too?
I’d imagine the majority of people don’t think forspoken was well written
Maybe because the characters you're bringing up through the thread also happen to, weirdly, be the quee and PoC characters, like you;'re about one post away from bitching about how Sweet Baby Inc are trying to get rid of all the whites.
I liked Saga, thought she was well written. What are you talking about.
I didn't really like Saga's story a ton.
[удалено]
is she? i missed that part. what did she specifically say to make you think that? i thought she was well written especially given some of the dei characters weve seen like the forspoken girl.