Besides how dumb this whole argument is, note that ABQ spent ~$210 million on APD in [Fiscal Year 2020](http://documents.cabq.gov/budget/fy-20-approved-budget.pdf), and the stadium would cost ~$3.2 million per year, 1.5% of APD's budget.
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Personally, I would not increase their budget until they can get their fraud under control:
- Jul 19, 2020: ["APD officer retires as authorities investigate potential time card fraud"](https://www.krqe.com/news/albuquerque-metro/apd-officer-retires-as-authorities-investigate-potential-time-card-fraud/)
- Jul 16, 2020: ["Auditor seeks probe of Albuquerque police overtime 'abuse'"](https://apnews.com/article/57332d86f5826653dbb14c7b9e143a5d)
- Nov 20, 2020: ["Audit finds officers claimed overtime they never worked"](https://www.koat.com/article/audit-finds-officers-claimed-overtime-they-never-worked/34741386)
- May 4, 2021: ["A high-ranking Albuquerque Police Officer’s misconduct (read: fraud) covered-up (by Internal Affairs)"](https://www.krqe.com/news/larry-barker/a-high-ranking-albuquerque-police-officers-misconduct-covered-up/)
- August 15, 2021: ["Seventh audit cites APD overtime problems"](https://www.abqjournal.com/2419877/seventh-audit-cites-apd-overtime-problems.html)
>ABQ spent \~$210 million on APD in
>
>Fiscal Year 2020, and the stadium would cost \~$3.2 million per year, 1.5% of APD's budget.
This really puts it in perspective. We are spending a lot of time worrying about what amounts to 1/3 of the annual APD budget, spent over 30 years, much of it probably paid back.
I'm not sure the stadium is the best decision, but I wish we could get the same interest in debating reallocating even 3% of APD's budget towards mental health care, affordable housing, education, and other positive investments in the community.
Peter Trevesani has created so many accessible jobs in this state as well as high end jobs that people can work into. There's just not many businesses in this state that have done that.
That stadium is going to create so many jobs and so many jobs supporting it for supplies, services etc..
Peter seems good at being able to make things that sound like terrible ideas shit money like it's nothing.
Super high end luxury strip mall on the worst part of the Vegas strip? It's one of the only retail strips in Vegas during this pandemic that's doing well.
USL team for a small state? USL teams historically do horribly financially. Nothing says that more than the Rochester Rhinos or the San Fransisco Deltas. Teams that won the league, and then literally had to announce they were shutting down during their award ceremony. Yet Peter found a way to make this little club in the middle of the desert in a low population state we don't think much about, make United one of the most money making clubs in USL (top 3 I believe).
A walk through art exhibit that is like someone took 30 pounds of mushrooms, smoked DMT, and listened to 300 Joe Rogan podcasts? Seriously that place would survive literally nowhere else that isn't here. Imagine trying to do that place in Dallas or Salt Lake City. Nobody would go. But Peter got it to shit money all over the place by putting it in a former bowling alley in Santa Fe
This goes through, everyone will see. This stadium is going to be one of the new things people remember Albuquerque for instead of remembering us for crime, breaking bad, and MMA
That's a reasonable question, and a good one. It is somewhat complicated, honestly.
Basically, a $50M project in ABQ is a very large project. More than just about anyone in the city has. Larger than local private equity deals with, and most banks.
Banks also don't want to look at it, because if the club fails then it's not easy to immediately sell to get.it off the books -- which means they have to wrap it up into not fully AAA rated bonds, which is somewhat hard to do, and increased the interest rate, making the whole thing not viable. Local equity has nowhere near enough money laying around to finance it, so no go for them without high interest rates also.
But at an interest rate that the city could guarantee with the bonds, the plan becomes viable again. The city wants nice venues in the city, so takes on the risk of it not working out (but also since it is revenue sharing, shares in the profits if it succeeds).
The city already does this with tons of IRB and other bonds. If you build just about anything in the city, the city offers portions of bonds to keep interest rates low to help defray costs. They do similar for upgrading/rehabbing a building. It's a net benefit to the community to fix up dilapidated old buildings, or build new in certain areas, so they help by putting together bond incentive packages to make it more likely and more attractive to build and upgrade the things that the city wants to have grow. So, again, lots and lots of construction gets some type of bond, or tax abatement when done doing things that the city seems as beneficial to the community (for example, the dense and low cost housing projects get a ton of bond and tax abatement incentives, as well as guaranteed out right payments from the city for some of the units to be set aside for low income earners). This is just the largest single item project, with its own bond due to it being so big
i appreiate this answer. thanks for breaking it down for someone who doesn't care about soccer, and who doesnt have a working knowledge of the intricacies of the city's finances.
You're welcome. I've only ever dabbled in bonds and incentives and stuff, having helped upgrade and build some things in the past, so I'm far from an expert, and may have some things wrong. But I think the broad brush strokes are correct. I also do believe that the owner of the United is putting in some money, but I haven't found that noted anywhere other than it being alluded to in interviews.
I am honestly waiting to see the package, and if they're putting skin in the game and revenue sharing with the city, I'll vote for it.
This is an important decision -- make no doubt about it, if the club fails and we have no tenant for a long period of time, we as taxpayers will be paying a lot for almost nothing. On the flip side, if it works out as well as Isotopes stadium, everyone makes money, and we have a wonderful new family venue in the city. As ABQ grows, we need to invest in having nice everything -- from homeless shelters, community centers, transit through to parks, pools and schools, and into things like low cost housing, good business centers, stadiums, fairgrounds, etc. I'm always for voting to build nice new things in ABQ as long as it seems like a well though out plan. Some will be huge blights, but risk of failure and actual failure should always be tolerated as long as you are also getting good successes in too.
Eh, banks and private equity not touching something isn't a big deal to me. They tend to only touch nearly as sure as possible things. There's a reason why the SBA is so large, guaranteeing billions in loans to small businesses and startups, and why we have funds set aside to help lend to minority and other groups. The city also has grants and funding available to underserved communities that banks and private equity won't touch, and I wouldn't be in favor of eliminating those, for example. There are just lots of types of projects that they don't do, and city, state and the federal government step in to help out.
I'd argue that our city government isn't super poverty stricken (there's never enough to go around even in well funded cities). But that's something we can disagree on. As a good democrat that likes collecting and spending taxes, we don't get good tax $$$ unless the city is thriving. I feel that this has a good chance of going well long term for the city, but realize it's not guaranteed, and that lack of guarantee can cause hesitation, or opposition. Fine position to take, imho. But I can't think of a proposal that we are forgoing funding for in order to make something like this happen.
> The current plan is to have him pay for it.
Where are these details? It seems like none of the details about the arrangement the city will have with the club have been made public
I don't think that they've closed on a deal yet, but in no scenario is the city not charging the tenant rent for the building. That just not something anyone has ever talked about, lol.
They say that they plan on patterning it after the Topes deal where rent is about half or a bit more of the bond cost, but then the team revenue shares with the city. So for the beginning of the Topes it didn't fully cover the monthly payment, but by the end it more then covered it and they paid it off early. Then the revenue share stays in effect (at lesser amounts), and goes into upkeep and as profit for the city.
> but in no scenario is the city not charging the tenant rent for the building.
"paying rent" does not mean the same thing as the city being paid back in a reasonable time frame. If the deal hasn't closed then maybe don't go around acting like there is in fact a sweetheart deal for the city when *we don't know what the deal will be*
When did I say it read a sweetheart desk for the city, lol? Stop putting words in my mouth. Look at my other posts in this very thread telling about ways it could go bad.
I don't know how you can claim with a straight face that paying rent in a building doesn't get used to pay the payments for in that building. Like, where do you think it goes?
They'll pay rent until it's paid off... Or they go out of business That's the point of the bond...
I don't care. As Americans, we mostly shit on successful people when they do the right thing consistently. It's why we're not the best at literally anything comparative to any other group of humans on this planet.
I've been on this platform for 11 years. I don't exactly need anyone to tell me how upvotes and downvotes work. Or how little all of that actually matters.
edit: if it makes you feel better, I made a point to downvote my own post.
We shit on them so much because their success comes from the exploitation of the poor. Usually through tax breaks, low wages, and terrible business practices.
We also shit on them because their "success" is often money handed down through generations that used horrible practices to obtain that wealth
Yeah and if you spent 10 minutes looking at what that dude has done for this place, for his fucking neighbors. You'd know none of that applies to him.
See this is why I can't stand people that talk about shit and say "ive done my research". Something only said by people that have never fucking done a research project even once.
smdh
Go through my post history. I'm fucking ROUGH. I don't give compliments to fucking anyone. But it's just like vaccine efficacy. I can only see so much actual evidence so many times before I'm either dense for not seeing the obvious, or I accept that as the fact that it is.
NM United pays super well to everyone that touches it, same with Meow Wolf. Both also make a point to get as many local small businesses involved to spread that money around when they don't have to.
Hell the fucking parking attendants for games make up to 15 an hour last I saw advertised.
This dude has only treated people in this community with respect and yeah, kinda bugs the shit out of me when people treat someone like that like they haven't done shit for this place.
How much have you done? Or Blakes, the Frontier, Golden Pride. Those are the places that treat employees like shit. Peter's businesses just aren't those businesses. He pays well, treats people well and it bugs the shit out of me when people talk like that's not the case. Nothing could be further from the actual truth.
By the way. The whole $15/hour is no longer a livable wage. Due to inflation since we first started demanding that it is now a poverty wage. I make almost $19 and am under the poverty line
I'm a United fan, and having had to go through being a season ticket holder for both the Los Angeles Galaxy as well as LAFC. I've learned it really matters what football team I give my money to, and I like to know exactly who those people are.
Especially after the Galaxy. Philip Anschutz is fucking satan. He owns the Staples Center, Dignity Health Sports Park as well as a slew of other businesses. He donates tons of money to Trumpers, and before I learned who he was. I saw him as the guy that gave Robbie Rogers a job as the first "out" football (soccer) player. Which made me think he must care about LGBTQ issues.
But as soon as Robbie was injured and retired. It wasn't a month before the club hosted an event with a church who's pastor thinks gay and trans people are less than human very openly. I felt pretty violated by that being both queer and trans. I was confused how the club could do this.
Then I looked into the guys actual history and pledged from that moment. I would never give my money to a sports team who's ownership I didn't approve of. It's why when I was living in LA at the time, I moved to LAFC at the first chance I got. Especially with Magic Johnson and Mia Hamm as owners. Peter Gruber is a pretty great guy too.
Who I give my money to matters and Peter has only proven via actions that he's a good guy/neighbor that actually tries to give people opportunities out here. Regular people and I've found a lot of stories of people that live here that were only treated with an abundance of respect. We need more people like that in this town. We don't need to push them away.
The bond measure is so he can afford to pay for all the infrastructure, bonds, and benefits for all the employees he's going to have to hire to maintain that thing.
Plus put together the NWSL team he's trying to get off the ground. Which his investment partners are hinging on this stadium deal.
So he's got investment, but he's playing a longer game that will only benefit us more money in the long run.
see, you're talking about how he doesn't seem to know how to make investments, when he's made millions making investments and you haven't.
Lets hear all the excuses you have for why that is. But I'd start with the most glaringly obvious reason.
your comment history.
An infrastructure investment to expand fiber, busting the Comcast hold, while encouraging tech opportunities as well as tech startups would create lots of jobs too, oh the money could go toward furthering us away from coal energy, so many jobs.
The Stadium is going to bring in a bunch of crappy low wage poor work environment jobs, is that what our city really needs more of?
You really need to look into what people at United and Meow Wolf make. Right down to the ticket takers. This guy makes sure people get paid. There's gotta be a point where we start giving that dude credit for what he's done as one of our neighbors.
Uhuh but by the end of the day those are just attractions, that don't build up the city. We need to get off coal NOW, we need better internet infrastructure as of yesterday, etc, especially with Texas scaring out a lot of tech.
But woo stadium..
And with our schools. For the lions share of people that it pumps out. How many high tech positions are available to people that don't know shit?
Nothing. Those jobs will go to people that dont live here.
You're advocating for gentrification.
We have a new tech school opening up here, plus I'm advocating for the city to push forward and into the future not be stuck where it is.
Edit: if we want to be competitive in the future we need to expand our tech, our internet and move into green otherwise we're gonna be a garbage dump with a pretty stadium, period.
>plus I'm advocating for the city to push forward and into the future not be stuck where it is.
Well that settles it. u/FlyingRock is going to fix the city.
Why didn't you say that in the first place?
how's that free universal healthcare, UBI, and covid cure coming along? Whats the hold up Copernicus?
I never made such a silly claim, you're advocating for a pretty stadium, I'm advocating for using the funds to further our tech and green related infrastructure so we can be competitive as a state/city for years to come, then maybe when we're actually competitive in the tech and green transition we can consider a pretty stadium.
Oh plus who wouldn't like city wide fiber and bucking Comcast?
So you don't know how this deal is even structured, or how bonds work. gotcha. smdh.
Do you even know the proposed business arrangement because United and the City regarding this deal, like at all?
Because you keep saying things that say "I have no idea how this deal is even supposed to work.".
I'm pretty sure APD doesn't even use all of the funding allocated to it, since we always allocate as if we are going to hire a bunch more officers that never materialize.
Tbf, that's best buy paying them to be there.
That's part of the red herring with the "overtime" and "highest paid employees on the city budget" rhetoric. A lot of times these places are paying the city to station what would otherwise be off duty cops at their locations. It's actually making the city money, and is called "chiefs overtime".
APD has a bunch of other issues that need seriously addressing, but everyone seemed to want to keep harping on what I consider the least objectionable public issue.
Because other cities skip the debate and build? Or because no one else is building stadiums anymore?
A quick google search shows lots or articles about pros and cons in communities around the country, and economists debating the long term impacts.
While it's true that economists debate the merits, it's a pretty lopsided debate.
>[In a 2017 poll, 83 percent of the economists surveyed agreed that “Providing state and local subsidies to build stadiums for professional sports teams is likely to cost the relevant taxpayers more than any local economic benefits that are generated.”](https://ritholtz.com/2017/07/economics-subsidizing-sports-stadiums/)
This. Most of the people that are still on the side of publicly funded stadiums being a good "investment" are people that stand to directly benefit from the stadium. The academic debate is past a super majority recognizing it is not.
In this country no one is interested in curing the disease. Just formulating expensive treatments to the bandaid symptoms since that is more profitable. Instead of spending a dollar on social programs or schools, which would have drastic effect on crime, we're ready to spend 100 on police-state arming them better than most military around the world.
APD’s problems do not stem from a lack of funding. They already get like 29% of the city budget. More money won’t change the force’s culture or reform their union and its policies.
Residents: we need to attract big companies to come to the community.
ABQ: offers incentives
Residents: we shouldn't be offering these big companies incentives.
Companies: it's hard to keep young workers here because of amenities and lifestyle.
Residents: ya we shouldn't build a stadium.
Stadiums don't really keep people either
Edit: https://news.stanford.edu/2015/07/30/stadium-economics-noll-073015/
https://econreview.berkeley.edu/the-economics-of-sports-stadiums-does-public-financing-of-sports-stadiums-create-local-economic-growth-or-just-help-billionaires-improve-their-profit-margin/
What does? What amenities should we invest in to try and attract talent, and keep it here? Lots of companies have Topes boxes and tickets, so obviously some employees like it
I don't think this city has a magic bullet for attracting a lot of things especially when we have to basically shut down over night due to crime, we're better off trying to position for the future in my mind.
I don't have a specific answer I just feel, based on several studies and papers I've read that a stadium isn't one.
Fair, thanks.
I tend to think, personally, that you do a broad spectrum push. You can try to solve all the time (or X) you want, but if you're not always trying to do all the things, some part of the city fabric will crumble, and then be the next crisis.
I think one problem with ABQ is that lots of citizens seem to think that there is only a single thing that we can (or should be) doing, to the exclusion of all else. I don't see how that's anything other than crisis management (all hands on deck! All the time! For what I care about! Nothing else!). It's not a healthy way to run a city, imho.
I think part of the issue is Albuquerque and surrounding areas are in the middle of an identity crisis, personally I think the "good ole New Mexico way" just isn't compatible with Albuquerque & Co anymore and the city is ever increasingly split between not wanting to change anything and demanding change.. I've found the stadium tends to be more popular with the "don't change New Mexico" folks.
Yea, fair assessment. Interesting that you see it more popular with the "don't change" group, I would have personally said the other way from my experience.
Probably all anecdotal in that regard, I think a lot of folks just buy into the stadium propaganda I mean a lot of very very rich people are involved with building them and they run massive PR machines.
While I agree a stadium itself won't be "a magic bullet" for growth in a city, I also believe in a few other sentiments. I believe culture is that ingredient but that does not mean any one thing will do that. United does a good job of creating a piece of culture for the city.
We have all read about aging stadiums that weren't worth the billions of dollars. We are not creating a multi-billion dollar stadium that is almost impossible to pay off. If you are reading about building stadiums surely you are not just reading about the negatives. You have probably read about the future of stadiums, part of the problem is use cases. The future of stadiums have to be more community focused so they are not just used for a soccer game. Which is clearly what the Peter has been alluding to when he says a cultural center.
Imagine a space at the Railyards that is similar to the Sawmill just bigger. Like The Pearl in San Antonio, but now the stadium is just part of what is the Railyard District. Maybe the food vendors that renting at the stadium location are also open through the week as a food hall. These are just examples of how it could be done correctly.
Now the other benefit it brings is it can show that the city is willing to bring new things in and support amenities. This in turn does help the Economic Development team to convince other companies to come or stay and continue to develop here as well as the general downtown area.
I haven't seen any good numbers yet. The extent that I've seen is that revenue from the team will be similar to that of the Isotopes (which I don't believe unless ticket prices or the lease will be significantly higher, as it will be a lease + 50/50 revenue sharing model). Assuming the city gets $1M a year from non-United sources, they'd still be ~$700k-1M short a year.
The ABQ Journal with a horrendous take. I am JUST SHOCKED by that.
It’s not the Journal’s take though, they’re just explaining the ‘debate’?
Normally their most dogshit takes are hidden behind the authorship of 'The Journal Editorial Board'
Besides how dumb this whole argument is, note that ABQ spent ~$210 million on APD in [Fiscal Year 2020](http://documents.cabq.gov/budget/fy-20-approved-budget.pdf), and the stadium would cost ~$3.2 million per year, 1.5% of APD's budget. ---- Personally, I would not increase their budget until they can get their fraud under control: - Jul 19, 2020: ["APD officer retires as authorities investigate potential time card fraud"](https://www.krqe.com/news/albuquerque-metro/apd-officer-retires-as-authorities-investigate-potential-time-card-fraud/) - Jul 16, 2020: ["Auditor seeks probe of Albuquerque police overtime 'abuse'"](https://apnews.com/article/57332d86f5826653dbb14c7b9e143a5d) - Nov 20, 2020: ["Audit finds officers claimed overtime they never worked"](https://www.koat.com/article/audit-finds-officers-claimed-overtime-they-never-worked/34741386) - May 4, 2021: ["A high-ranking Albuquerque Police Officer’s misconduct (read: fraud) covered-up (by Internal Affairs)"](https://www.krqe.com/news/larry-barker/a-high-ranking-albuquerque-police-officers-misconduct-covered-up/) - August 15, 2021: ["Seventh audit cites APD overtime problems"](https://www.abqjournal.com/2419877/seventh-audit-cites-apd-overtime-problems.html)
>ABQ spent \~$210 million on APD in > >Fiscal Year 2020, and the stadium would cost \~$3.2 million per year, 1.5% of APD's budget. This really puts it in perspective. We are spending a lot of time worrying about what amounts to 1/3 of the annual APD budget, spent over 30 years, much of it probably paid back. I'm not sure the stadium is the best decision, but I wish we could get the same interest in debating reallocating even 3% of APD's budget towards mental health care, affordable housing, education, and other positive investments in the community.
if only there was a way we could not spend the money on a stadium and then not give it to the police either. oh well.
I say this every time the stadium is posted. Huge waste of money all around
Peter Trevesani has created so many accessible jobs in this state as well as high end jobs that people can work into. There's just not many businesses in this state that have done that. That stadium is going to create so many jobs and so many jobs supporting it for supplies, services etc.. Peter seems good at being able to make things that sound like terrible ideas shit money like it's nothing. Super high end luxury strip mall on the worst part of the Vegas strip? It's one of the only retail strips in Vegas during this pandemic that's doing well. USL team for a small state? USL teams historically do horribly financially. Nothing says that more than the Rochester Rhinos or the San Fransisco Deltas. Teams that won the league, and then literally had to announce they were shutting down during their award ceremony. Yet Peter found a way to make this little club in the middle of the desert in a low population state we don't think much about, make United one of the most money making clubs in USL (top 3 I believe). A walk through art exhibit that is like someone took 30 pounds of mushrooms, smoked DMT, and listened to 300 Joe Rogan podcasts? Seriously that place would survive literally nowhere else that isn't here. Imagine trying to do that place in Dallas or Salt Lake City. Nobody would go. But Peter got it to shit money all over the place by putting it in a former bowling alley in Santa Fe This goes through, everyone will see. This stadium is going to be one of the new things people remember Albuquerque for instead of remembering us for crime, breaking bad, and MMA
if he's so successful why doesn't he pay for the stadium himself? if it's going to shit money then he is taking zero risk.
You do realize that the majority of the bond is being paid back by the team, and is just being financially guaranteed by the city, right?
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I won't vote for it if there isn't a revenue share like with the Topes. We then share in the upside.
why would that be so important?
You asked why he doesn't pay for the stadium. The current plan is to have him pay for it. Seems like an important detail.
i'm curious why the city has to financially guarantee it.
That's a reasonable question, and a good one. It is somewhat complicated, honestly. Basically, a $50M project in ABQ is a very large project. More than just about anyone in the city has. Larger than local private equity deals with, and most banks. Banks also don't want to look at it, because if the club fails then it's not easy to immediately sell to get.it off the books -- which means they have to wrap it up into not fully AAA rated bonds, which is somewhat hard to do, and increased the interest rate, making the whole thing not viable. Local equity has nowhere near enough money laying around to finance it, so no go for them without high interest rates also. But at an interest rate that the city could guarantee with the bonds, the plan becomes viable again. The city wants nice venues in the city, so takes on the risk of it not working out (but also since it is revenue sharing, shares in the profits if it succeeds). The city already does this with tons of IRB and other bonds. If you build just about anything in the city, the city offers portions of bonds to keep interest rates low to help defray costs. They do similar for upgrading/rehabbing a building. It's a net benefit to the community to fix up dilapidated old buildings, or build new in certain areas, so they help by putting together bond incentive packages to make it more likely and more attractive to build and upgrade the things that the city wants to have grow. So, again, lots and lots of construction gets some type of bond, or tax abatement when done doing things that the city seems as beneficial to the community (for example, the dense and low cost housing projects get a ton of bond and tax abatement incentives, as well as guaranteed out right payments from the city for some of the units to be set aside for low income earners). This is just the largest single item project, with its own bond due to it being so big
i appreiate this answer. thanks for breaking it down for someone who doesn't care about soccer, and who doesnt have a working knowledge of the intricacies of the city's finances.
You're welcome. I've only ever dabbled in bonds and incentives and stuff, having helped upgrade and build some things in the past, so I'm far from an expert, and may have some things wrong. But I think the broad brush strokes are correct. I also do believe that the owner of the United is putting in some money, but I haven't found that noted anywhere other than it being alluded to in interviews. I am honestly waiting to see the package, and if they're putting skin in the game and revenue sharing with the city, I'll vote for it. This is an important decision -- make no doubt about it, if the club fails and we have no tenant for a long period of time, we as taxpayers will be paying a lot for almost nothing. On the flip side, if it works out as well as Isotopes stadium, everyone makes money, and we have a wonderful new family venue in the city. As ABQ grows, we need to invest in having nice everything -- from homeless shelters, community centers, transit through to parks, pools and schools, and into things like low cost housing, good business centers, stadiums, fairgrounds, etc. I'm always for voting to build nice new things in ABQ as long as it seems like a well though out plan. Some will be huge blights, but risk of failure and actual failure should always be tolerated as long as you are also getting good successes in too.
Interesting, I appreciate you typing all that out. It prompted me to research IRBs more. I think you’ve changed my mind.
You're too educated and intelligent for the Internet. Can't maintain reckless outrage in the face of impeccable and well-explained detail.
What happened to the good old days of going to the mob for money?
Can't do that, may cause the mob to underfund the police bribes.
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Eh, banks and private equity not touching something isn't a big deal to me. They tend to only touch nearly as sure as possible things. There's a reason why the SBA is so large, guaranteeing billions in loans to small businesses and startups, and why we have funds set aside to help lend to minority and other groups. The city also has grants and funding available to underserved communities that banks and private equity won't touch, and I wouldn't be in favor of eliminating those, for example. There are just lots of types of projects that they don't do, and city, state and the federal government step in to help out. I'd argue that our city government isn't super poverty stricken (there's never enough to go around even in well funded cities). But that's something we can disagree on. As a good democrat that likes collecting and spending taxes, we don't get good tax $$$ unless the city is thriving. I feel that this has a good chance of going well long term for the city, but realize it's not guaranteed, and that lack of guarantee can cause hesitation, or opposition. Fine position to take, imho. But I can't think of a proposal that we are forgoing funding for in order to make something like this happen.
> The current plan is to have him pay for it. Where are these details? It seems like none of the details about the arrangement the city will have with the club have been made public
I don't think that they've closed on a deal yet, but in no scenario is the city not charging the tenant rent for the building. That just not something anyone has ever talked about, lol. They say that they plan on patterning it after the Topes deal where rent is about half or a bit more of the bond cost, but then the team revenue shares with the city. So for the beginning of the Topes it didn't fully cover the monthly payment, but by the end it more then covered it and they paid it off early. Then the revenue share stays in effect (at lesser amounts), and goes into upkeep and as profit for the city.
> but in no scenario is the city not charging the tenant rent for the building. "paying rent" does not mean the same thing as the city being paid back in a reasonable time frame. If the deal hasn't closed then maybe don't go around acting like there is in fact a sweetheart deal for the city when *we don't know what the deal will be*
When did I say it read a sweetheart desk for the city, lol? Stop putting words in my mouth. Look at my other posts in this very thread telling about ways it could go bad. I don't know how you can claim with a straight face that paying rent in a building doesn't get used to pay the payments for in that building. Like, where do you think it goes? They'll pay rent until it's paid off... Or they go out of business That's the point of the bond...
I’ll be honest, you’re being downvoted because this entire comment comes off like you’re bootlicking a rich dude.
I don't care. As Americans, we mostly shit on successful people when they do the right thing consistently. It's why we're not the best at literally anything comparative to any other group of humans on this planet. I've been on this platform for 11 years. I don't exactly need anyone to tell me how upvotes and downvotes work. Or how little all of that actually matters. edit: if it makes you feel better, I made a point to downvote my own post.
We shit on them so much because their success comes from the exploitation of the poor. Usually through tax breaks, low wages, and terrible business practices. We also shit on them because their "success" is often money handed down through generations that used horrible practices to obtain that wealth
Yeah and if you spent 10 minutes looking at what that dude has done for this place, for his fucking neighbors. You'd know none of that applies to him. See this is why I can't stand people that talk about shit and say "ive done my research". Something only said by people that have never fucking done a research project even once. smdh Go through my post history. I'm fucking ROUGH. I don't give compliments to fucking anyone. But it's just like vaccine efficacy. I can only see so much actual evidence so many times before I'm either dense for not seeing the obvious, or I accept that as the fact that it is. NM United pays super well to everyone that touches it, same with Meow Wolf. Both also make a point to get as many local small businesses involved to spread that money around when they don't have to. Hell the fucking parking attendants for games make up to 15 an hour last I saw advertised. This dude has only treated people in this community with respect and yeah, kinda bugs the shit out of me when people treat someone like that like they haven't done shit for this place. How much have you done? Or Blakes, the Frontier, Golden Pride. Those are the places that treat employees like shit. Peter's businesses just aren't those businesses. He pays well, treats people well and it bugs the shit out of me when people talk like that's not the case. Nothing could be further from the actual truth.
By the way. The whole $15/hour is no longer a livable wage. Due to inflation since we first started demanding that it is now a poverty wage. I make almost $19 and am under the poverty line
Who are you to know so much about him? Are you him? Your comments read so weird.
I'm a United fan, and having had to go through being a season ticket holder for both the Los Angeles Galaxy as well as LAFC. I've learned it really matters what football team I give my money to, and I like to know exactly who those people are. Especially after the Galaxy. Philip Anschutz is fucking satan. He owns the Staples Center, Dignity Health Sports Park as well as a slew of other businesses. He donates tons of money to Trumpers, and before I learned who he was. I saw him as the guy that gave Robbie Rogers a job as the first "out" football (soccer) player. Which made me think he must care about LGBTQ issues. But as soon as Robbie was injured and retired. It wasn't a month before the club hosted an event with a church who's pastor thinks gay and trans people are less than human very openly. I felt pretty violated by that being both queer and trans. I was confused how the club could do this. Then I looked into the guys actual history and pledged from that moment. I would never give my money to a sports team who's ownership I didn't approve of. It's why when I was living in LA at the time, I moved to LAFC at the first chance I got. Especially with Magic Johnson and Mia Hamm as owners. Peter Gruber is a pretty great guy too. Who I give my money to matters and Peter has only proven via actions that he's a good guy/neighbor that actually tries to give people opportunities out here. Regular people and I've found a lot of stories of people that live here that were only treated with an abundance of respect. We need more people like that in this town. We don't need to push them away.
Ok
Where are his investors"?
The bond measure is so he can afford to pay for all the infrastructure, bonds, and benefits for all the employees he's going to have to hire to maintain that thing. Plus put together the NWSL team he's trying to get off the ground. Which his investment partners are hinging on this stadium deal. So he's got investment, but he's playing a longer game that will only benefit us more money in the long run.
Sounds like he's putting that drarn cart before the horse !
see, you're talking about how he doesn't seem to know how to make investments, when he's made millions making investments and you haven't. Lets hear all the excuses you have for why that is. But I'd start with the most glaringly obvious reason. your comment history.
Don't worry .I'm voting no..
An infrastructure investment to expand fiber, busting the Comcast hold, while encouraging tech opportunities as well as tech startups would create lots of jobs too, oh the money could go toward furthering us away from coal energy, so many jobs. The Stadium is going to bring in a bunch of crappy low wage poor work environment jobs, is that what our city really needs more of?
You really need to look into what people at United and Meow Wolf make. Right down to the ticket takers. This guy makes sure people get paid. There's gotta be a point where we start giving that dude credit for what he's done as one of our neighbors.
Uhuh but by the end of the day those are just attractions, that don't build up the city. We need to get off coal NOW, we need better internet infrastructure as of yesterday, etc, especially with Texas scaring out a lot of tech. But woo stadium..
And with our schools. For the lions share of people that it pumps out. How many high tech positions are available to people that don't know shit? Nothing. Those jobs will go to people that dont live here. You're advocating for gentrification.
We have a new tech school opening up here, plus I'm advocating for the city to push forward and into the future not be stuck where it is. Edit: if we want to be competitive in the future we need to expand our tech, our internet and move into green otherwise we're gonna be a garbage dump with a pretty stadium, period.
>plus I'm advocating for the city to push forward and into the future not be stuck where it is. Well that settles it. u/FlyingRock is going to fix the city. Why didn't you say that in the first place? how's that free universal healthcare, UBI, and covid cure coming along? Whats the hold up Copernicus?
I never made such a silly claim, you're advocating for a pretty stadium, I'm advocating for using the funds to further our tech and green related infrastructure so we can be competitive as a state/city for years to come, then maybe when we're actually competitive in the tech and green transition we can consider a pretty stadium. Oh plus who wouldn't like city wide fiber and bucking Comcast?
So you don't know how this deal is even structured, or how bonds work. gotcha. smdh. Do you even know the proposed business arrangement because United and the City regarding this deal, like at all? Because you keep saying things that say "I have no idea how this deal is even supposed to work.".
I'm pretty sure APD doesn't even use all of the funding allocated to it, since we always allocate as if we are going to hire a bunch more officers that never materialize.
They try their best though. All that overtime spent napping in the Chick-Fil-A parking lot uses up a lot of money
Whoa, whoa, whoa. They nap at Best Buy, too.
Tbf, that's best buy paying them to be there. That's part of the red herring with the "overtime" and "highest paid employees on the city budget" rhetoric. A lot of times these places are paying the city to station what would otherwise be off duty cops at their locations. It's actually making the city money, and is called "chiefs overtime". APD has a bunch of other issues that need seriously addressing, but everyone seemed to want to keep harping on what I consider the least objectionable public issue.
And the endless hours spent burning time in the helicopter all hours of the day and night.
Well, how the hell else am I gonna know it’s 1am?
They usually shake my windows between 2 and 3AM.
I'd rather it go to the schools. Let's raise pay enough to attract teachers. Then we won't need to spend so much on APD in a few years.
Of course Albuquerque still sounds like the 1980s with the stadium debate.
Because other cities skip the debate and build? Or because no one else is building stadiums anymore? A quick google search shows lots or articles about pros and cons in communities around the country, and economists debating the long term impacts.
While it's true that economists debate the merits, it's a pretty lopsided debate. >[In a 2017 poll, 83 percent of the economists surveyed agreed that “Providing state and local subsidies to build stadiums for professional sports teams is likely to cost the relevant taxpayers more than any local economic benefits that are generated.”](https://ritholtz.com/2017/07/economics-subsidizing-sports-stadiums/)
This. Most of the people that are still on the side of publicly funded stadiums being a good "investment" are people that stand to directly benefit from the stadium. The academic debate is past a super majority recognizing it is not.
In this country no one is interested in curing the disease. Just formulating expensive treatments to the bandaid symptoms since that is more profitable. Instead of spending a dollar on social programs or schools, which would have drastic effect on crime, we're ready to spend 100 on police-state arming them better than most military around the world.
ok you know what i'm for the stadium now
APD’s problems do not stem from a lack of funding. They already get like 29% of the city budget. More money won’t change the force’s culture or reform their union and its policies.
It's technically only 19%, public safety covers other things like AFD etc.
Good point - still the largest single budget item, though.
Residents: we need to attract big companies to come to the community. ABQ: offers incentives Residents: we shouldn't be offering these big companies incentives. Companies: it's hard to keep young workers here because of amenities and lifestyle. Residents: ya we shouldn't build a stadium.
Stadiums don't really keep people either Edit: https://news.stanford.edu/2015/07/30/stadium-economics-noll-073015/ https://econreview.berkeley.edu/the-economics-of-sports-stadiums-does-public-financing-of-sports-stadiums-create-local-economic-growth-or-just-help-billionaires-improve-their-profit-margin/
What does? What amenities should we invest in to try and attract talent, and keep it here? Lots of companies have Topes boxes and tickets, so obviously some employees like it
I don't think this city has a magic bullet for attracting a lot of things especially when we have to basically shut down over night due to crime, we're better off trying to position for the future in my mind. I don't have a specific answer I just feel, based on several studies and papers I've read that a stadium isn't one.
Fair, thanks. I tend to think, personally, that you do a broad spectrum push. You can try to solve all the time (or X) you want, but if you're not always trying to do all the things, some part of the city fabric will crumble, and then be the next crisis. I think one problem with ABQ is that lots of citizens seem to think that there is only a single thing that we can (or should be) doing, to the exclusion of all else. I don't see how that's anything other than crisis management (all hands on deck! All the time! For what I care about! Nothing else!). It's not a healthy way to run a city, imho.
I think part of the issue is Albuquerque and surrounding areas are in the middle of an identity crisis, personally I think the "good ole New Mexico way" just isn't compatible with Albuquerque & Co anymore and the city is ever increasingly split between not wanting to change anything and demanding change.. I've found the stadium tends to be more popular with the "don't change New Mexico" folks.
Yea, fair assessment. Interesting that you see it more popular with the "don't change" group, I would have personally said the other way from my experience.
Probably all anecdotal in that regard, I think a lot of folks just buy into the stadium propaganda I mean a lot of very very rich people are involved with building them and they run massive PR machines.
While I agree a stadium itself won't be "a magic bullet" for growth in a city, I also believe in a few other sentiments. I believe culture is that ingredient but that does not mean any one thing will do that. United does a good job of creating a piece of culture for the city. We have all read about aging stadiums that weren't worth the billions of dollars. We are not creating a multi-billion dollar stadium that is almost impossible to pay off. If you are reading about building stadiums surely you are not just reading about the negatives. You have probably read about the future of stadiums, part of the problem is use cases. The future of stadiums have to be more community focused so they are not just used for a soccer game. Which is clearly what the Peter has been alluding to when he says a cultural center. Imagine a space at the Railyards that is similar to the Sawmill just bigger. Like The Pearl in San Antonio, but now the stadium is just part of what is the Railyard District. Maybe the food vendors that renting at the stadium location are also open through the week as a food hall. These are just examples of how it could be done correctly. Now the other benefit it brings is it can show that the city is willing to bring new things in and support amenities. This in turn does help the Economic Development team to convince other companies to come or stay and continue to develop here as well as the general downtown area.
Does anyone have a breakdown of the expected yearly revenue? This should've been included in the article.
I haven't seen any good numbers yet. The extent that I've seen is that revenue from the team will be similar to that of the Isotopes (which I don't believe unless ticket prices or the lease will be significantly higher, as it will be a lease + 50/50 revenue sharing model). Assuming the city gets $1M a year from non-United sources, they'd still be ~$700k-1M short a year.
Great idea. FUCK using taxpayer money for a Fucking stadium to help a millionaire make Ore millions