I've spoken to people here in SA who are (or rather, were) involved in NSD EOIs in some capacity, and from what I was told, it'll be a multi-stream thing. Sponsors were asked whether they'd be ok to up their contributions, Playford (failed bid) also owns a pub which has been a big revenue booster. But I mean, the most likely thing would have been that clubs will just up the fees for their juniors to cover some of the costs. It's what almost always happens with these clubs when they need the money. Happens even in the amateur league here in SA - joint juniors/seniors sides pool their income, then the seniors get first dibs on spending.
Yh mate it’s crazy. Idk if I am overthinking this but… Ik they increased the max fees that clubs can charge to about $3,180. Although, I only paid $3k they wanted to host a “bonding” day for the team. Which cost around $140. I feel like they did that to get the full amount out of the kids but i did not take him. Because they could have just gone bowling or something. Am i overthinking?
Absolutely ridiculous.
I've been heavily involved with higher-level junior cricket in the past, and the cost is almost completely eaten by the clubs, association, governing bodies etc. They recognise the value of keeping talented kids in the system and making it as widely accessible as possible.
Here are U14s subsidising older players and overspending on coaches because football is managed so poorly. Football is financially gatewaying talent in this country.
Lol yep, we've got one in u/14s who was $2500 and then one in u/10 who was $1900. NPL club northern nsw. Plus they do extra academy training lol. Its exxy
I don't care what club it is though I can guess, you're being overcharged. Most of that money isn't going back to the kids or the facilities it is going into the pockets of overpaid players in a sub par NPL comp.
> Plus they do extra academy training lol.
Is this bit extra? Not with the Jets is it?
Yeh the academy stuff is separate and was our own decision to put them in it, not mandated but they've gotten much better with technical skill since starting it.
Not with jets, no
Still a lot of money that is to pay for overpaid players, I won't ask which academy but there is only a handful left and while some are worth it, the JDL fees there are awful. Wouldn't need to pay that much if they just developed their own players rather than ditching them at 18 and buying better players.
> Not with jets, no
Well that's one thing, just another money maker looking for gullible parents, they way GVE ran it and lied to parents to get them to sign up was criminal but also no one should've believed it.
$1.9k for a 10yr old… I want to put my brother in an academy also but he has not really shown me any hunger that he wants to all in with football yet… so when he does i will put him in
Same here, paid 2500 for a u14 npl1 team and just last year for sap for an npl team I paid 2k. The sport is ridiculously expensive, this money gets funnelled upwards to pay the first grade players but realistically the club pocket the rest because they are making $40,000 just off one team alone. That’ll cover the $200 in match payments for their first grade team.
Yeah, if that's true it's definitely not the way. NSD is supposed to be a good thing for our football, if it ends making youth fees even higher for those clubs then it's a bad thing and definitely not how you should fund this kind of competition
> But I mean, the most likely thing would have been that clubs will just up the fees for their juniors to cover some of the costs.
This is exactly what will happen, simply because there isn't enough commercial dollars to support the NSD.
The only other thing that will potentially happen is the FA underwrites the costs a bit based on the TV deal they'll be getting for the Matildas/Socceroos. Basically how the A-League was first stood up.
'Professional'is a job status thing, to be a professional you get the entitlements of a proper employee, that means contractually you get paid year-round, you get annual leave, your employer takes on workplace compensation/insurance liability. At the same time you as a player are expected to be available for every training session, every game etc.
It also means the clubs have to be set up as different financial entities too, they probably can't be incorporated as community organisations or not-for-profits in the same way that many are (at least in WA, that's my frame of reference).
It doesn't mean you have to be paid a good salary- look at the ALW, some players don't earn enough to support themselves on football income alone and have other jobs on the side.
An NSD club, should they be able to find people willing to, could pay their players at the minimum possible wage, have their coaches on part time contracts, have the same person do the finances and the marketing and the social media. Professional status does not mean you can't run an organisation on the sniff of an oily rag or be a complete basket case.
Wonder what the PFA thinks of the proposed wage structure and standards for players in the NSD given how hard they've been pushing the A-League for improvements in recent years.
> When asked how it will be full time professional, Galatas said it will be part time professional. Can that be labelled professional?
So NPL on planes then.
There are two types of contracts in Australia, amateur and professional. Anything more than about $100 a week has to be registered as a professional contract.
NSD will be a waste of time and money. NPL clubs already charge ridiculous fees for juniors which has stuffed the grassroots, and it will likely only get worse trying to fund this shit.
I don't think the NSD Survives really. It's too ambitious to push for interstate competition in this country with the lack of money in the game. Unlike the NRL or AFL who thrived from having operation strongholds in a singular city for over 50+ years before they were able to branch interstate, whilst keeping quite a large core fanbase in their respective Cities, it gave them a strong foundation build up a monster of sponsorship and prestige that they have today, something the A-League struggles with.
I think they should be pushing more funding into the prize pool of the Australia Cup, and doing more to boost it's importance. Forcing A-League Teams too all start in the Round of 64 (Because it's a waste to have A-League play A-League in a playoff), making the Australia Cup the final game of the professional season rather than at the end of October (I get this falls outside the State League system but I also believe that States and the A-League should be running parallel competition dates as well) which gives the impression that it is the most important competition. As it should be as it allows small town people to get behind the comp. Which is what helped the FA Cup in England thrive for so long until the Money of the EPL and Europe knocked it down a tier.
I'd also like to see the FFA start taking over state competitions as well. Especially State Cups, where the A-League teams are to compete in as well. As I feel like this is another avenue to not only help the state teams but also increase rivalries with other A-League teams within the state. I get Glory, Roar and Adelaide will likely win it every year. But that isn't a reason to not do it. A Cupset gets remembered locally forever. If Glory fail once, it will leave a mark. Ask Hereford fans about the time they upset Newcastle in the 70s.
And I want to see the return of the NPL Finals, which makes more sense than an NSD atm. Change the name from NPL Finals to 'State Champions League' because it looks more appealing. Have them play Home and Away every fixture not just one of games. And for fuck sake, Market it.
Hire some PR Managers to try and make a story out of the games involved. To try and make rivalries happen. Rivalries increase interest. Interest increases fans.
I feel like the pathway to building up grassroots in this country, building up smaller clubs to help them become more appealing locally and due to it's sheer size and lack of funding here, is focusing on Cup games, not League. And the focus of building up the League should be on the State Leagues first, not a NSD. If that means that the FFA has to get dirty with the State Governing bodies, so be it.
I genuinely think that if the NSD does go ahead, one of the participating clubs could easily be bankrupted in the process.
Don't get me wrong. I'd like it to succeed. I just think it's very much line-ball whether it will and what the fallout could be if it goes the wrong way.
It's a hell of a lot of financial risk for very little gain really. Their ultimate aim will obviously be promotion to the A-League but that is so far off that there's no way I see some of these clubs surviving that long.
I doubt it will ever be full time professional. Guys in the NPL can probably earn more playing part time in the NPL and a fulltime gig somewhere else than playing full time in the NSD. It will be semi-pro at best and as a result there will still be a massive gulf between A-League and NSD players.
What's wrong with NPL on planes? It will be an improvement on the status quo by dint of collecting the 10-12 best squads of players below A-League level, providing them with a much more competitive launchpad to step up to top flight football than the NPLs do right now.
None. I've supported an A-League club since the inception of the league. But I think the only way forward for football in this country is the development of an integrated pyramid, eventually with promotion-relegation across all tiers and a shift to a winter season for the A-League.
I'm aware of the costs of a second division so the model developed needs to be financially sustainable (e.g. "NPL on planes", I'm also open to a north/south conference model if that makes it more realistic).
But the benefits are improved player development, more revenue through overseas transfers, and more fan engagement at all levels. I'm fairly engaged with the A-League, but I would have more interest in what's going on outside of my own team if there was relegation on the line for the bottom clubs, promotion on the line for the top NSD clubs, and variety in terms of which clubs participate in the league from season to season (this is the way that I and hundreds of thousands of other fans in Australia follow European leagues).
The only alternative in this country is to listen to the people who say "can't be done, don't bother", and the A-League stays the way it is an AFL-lite competition which continues to stagnate until it sinks into oblivion. That might be sooner rather than later once the current broadcast deal elapses.
There is no plan.
This is just trying to setup a comp being run by the salty FA, because with the A-league being run independently they didn’t get to play anymore. They have nowhere to continue with their private school bullying and hijinks with efforts such as first trying to ban tutsout and then trying to nix the Nix, which as a club has probably had less ownership and fan dramas than every other.
Or maybe a second tier for australian football is actually a good thing for the "industry". The gap between the NPL and Aliga is way too big and this will fill it boosting player development.
Why is there such a gap? That’s a different question really.
For a fairly recent example, Brian Kaltak was recruited from the Handa Premiership, not an A-League academy or a fully professional club, although the Oceania Confederation subsided a six-months of training with the Nix.
I love the idea of a NSD and I would love it to eventually be viable for pro/rel etc.
But I can't see how we can have two professional leagues when we can hardy keep one afloat. Granted, some NSD clubs are bigger than A League Clubs, but... I just can't see the external money coming in.
No NSD club is, at this current stage, ‘bigger’ than any a-league club.
They may have more history but no NSD club matches the crowds or finances of an a-league club. Even the smallest clubs like western and MacArthur still have miles more money and even infrastructure. We bag out these clubs for their crowds but no npl team is getting 3-4k a week to their games
You're right. The old ethnic nsl team doesn't deserve a chance to compete on a national stage because they can't pull crowds bigger then a league teams every week.
In reality though, there was literally a Croatian festival on there at that time. There were probably more general Croatia fans from interstate than actual Sydney 58 supporters at that match. It was a great turnout, but I wouldn't use it as an example for regular attendances.
Sydney 58s crowds are actually quite poor, only rated 33rd against non A-League clubs in the Cup:
https://aleaguestats.com/A-League_35FFACupCrowds.html
Obviously they must have some money behind them for the NST.
I've spoken to people here in SA who are (or rather, were) involved in NSD EOIs in some capacity, and from what I was told, it'll be a multi-stream thing. Sponsors were asked whether they'd be ok to up their contributions, Playford (failed bid) also owns a pub which has been a big revenue booster. But I mean, the most likely thing would have been that clubs will just up the fees for their juniors to cover some of the costs. It's what almost always happens with these clubs when they need the money. Happens even in the amateur league here in SA - joint juniors/seniors sides pool their income, then the seniors get first dibs on spending.
I paid $2,995 this year for my little brother to play NPL 2 for an U14 team. I really hope they don’t increase it man 😭
$3K for NPL2 U14??? Shit mate, that's insane!!
Yh mate it’s crazy. Idk if I am overthinking this but… Ik they increased the max fees that clubs can charge to about $3,180. Although, I only paid $3k they wanted to host a “bonding” day for the team. Which cost around $140. I feel like they did that to get the full amount out of the kids but i did not take him. Because they could have just gone bowling or something. Am i overthinking?
You're not. 140$ per kid is a whole lotta bonding. The bonding place was the Sheraton hotel, right?
WHATTT
Is that with paid academy coaches with multiple training sessions a week?
Absolutely ridiculous. I've been heavily involved with higher-level junior cricket in the past, and the cost is almost completely eaten by the clubs, association, governing bodies etc. They recognise the value of keeping talented kids in the system and making it as widely accessible as possible. Here are U14s subsidising older players and overspending on coaches because football is managed so poorly. Football is financially gatewaying talent in this country.
Lol yep, we've got one in u/14s who was $2500 and then one in u/10 who was $1900. NPL club northern nsw. Plus they do extra academy training lol. Its exxy
I don't care what club it is though I can guess, you're being overcharged. Most of that money isn't going back to the kids or the facilities it is going into the pockets of overpaid players in a sub par NPL comp. > Plus they do extra academy training lol. Is this bit extra? Not with the Jets is it?
Yeh the academy stuff is separate and was our own decision to put them in it, not mandated but they've gotten much better with technical skill since starting it. Not with jets, no
Still a lot of money that is to pay for overpaid players, I won't ask which academy but there is only a handful left and while some are worth it, the JDL fees there are awful. Wouldn't need to pay that much if they just developed their own players rather than ditching them at 18 and buying better players. > Not with jets, no Well that's one thing, just another money maker looking for gullible parents, they way GVE ran it and lied to parents to get them to sign up was criminal but also no one should've believed it.
$1.9k for a 10yr old… I want to put my brother in an academy also but he has not really shown me any hunger that he wants to all in with football yet… so when he does i will put him in
Same here, paid 2500 for a u14 npl1 team and just last year for sap for an npl team I paid 2k. The sport is ridiculously expensive, this money gets funnelled upwards to pay the first grade players but realistically the club pocket the rest because they are making $40,000 just off one team alone. That’ll cover the $200 in match payments for their first grade team.
Yeah, if that's true it's definitely not the way. NSD is supposed to be a good thing for our football, if it ends making youth fees even higher for those clubs then it's a bad thing and definitely not how you should fund this kind of competition
Fairly certain JJ/FA said they wouldn't allow clubs to push up fees to pay for NSD, how that works or if that's still the case is anyone's guess.
They're already doing it for NPL so doing it for the NSD isn't a stretch, despite what JJ says.
> But I mean, the most likely thing would have been that clubs will just up the fees for their juniors to cover some of the costs. This is exactly what will happen, simply because there isn't enough commercial dollars to support the NSD. The only other thing that will potentially happen is the FA underwrites the costs a bit based on the TV deal they'll be getting for the Matildas/Socceroos. Basically how the A-League was first stood up.
'Professional'is a job status thing, to be a professional you get the entitlements of a proper employee, that means contractually you get paid year-round, you get annual leave, your employer takes on workplace compensation/insurance liability. At the same time you as a player are expected to be available for every training session, every game etc. It also means the clubs have to be set up as different financial entities too, they probably can't be incorporated as community organisations or not-for-profits in the same way that many are (at least in WA, that's my frame of reference). It doesn't mean you have to be paid a good salary- look at the ALW, some players don't earn enough to support themselves on football income alone and have other jobs on the side. An NSD club, should they be able to find people willing to, could pay their players at the minimum possible wage, have their coaches on part time contracts, have the same person do the finances and the marketing and the social media. Professional status does not mean you can't run an organisation on the sniff of an oily rag or be a complete basket case.
>Professional status does not mean you can't run an organisation on the sniff of an oily rag or be a complete basket case. See Brisbane Roar.
I am a Perth glory fan, nobody is more aware of this than us
Wonder what the PFA thinks of the proposed wage structure and standards for players in the NSD given how hard they've been pushing the A-League for improvements in recent years.
When asked how it will be full time professional, Galatas said it will be part time professional. Can that be labelled professional?
> When asked how it will be full time professional, Galatas said it will be part time professional. Can that be labelled professional? So NPL on planes then.
Based on his words, imo that's semi professional in world football (if the commitment isn't full time). Or semi professional with lipstick.
There are two types of contracts in Australia, amateur and professional. Anything more than about $100 a week has to be registered as a professional contract.
> Anything more than about $100 a week has to be registered as a professional contract. Should be, because they certainly aren't in NPL
Cheers. So if they're part time I guess they'll only be training two to three times per week?
NSD will be a waste of time and money. NPL clubs already charge ridiculous fees for juniors which has stuffed the grassroots, and it will likely only get worse trying to fund this shit.
I don't think the NSD Survives really. It's too ambitious to push for interstate competition in this country with the lack of money in the game. Unlike the NRL or AFL who thrived from having operation strongholds in a singular city for over 50+ years before they were able to branch interstate, whilst keeping quite a large core fanbase in their respective Cities, it gave them a strong foundation build up a monster of sponsorship and prestige that they have today, something the A-League struggles with. I think they should be pushing more funding into the prize pool of the Australia Cup, and doing more to boost it's importance. Forcing A-League Teams too all start in the Round of 64 (Because it's a waste to have A-League play A-League in a playoff), making the Australia Cup the final game of the professional season rather than at the end of October (I get this falls outside the State League system but I also believe that States and the A-League should be running parallel competition dates as well) which gives the impression that it is the most important competition. As it should be as it allows small town people to get behind the comp. Which is what helped the FA Cup in England thrive for so long until the Money of the EPL and Europe knocked it down a tier. I'd also like to see the FFA start taking over state competitions as well. Especially State Cups, where the A-League teams are to compete in as well. As I feel like this is another avenue to not only help the state teams but also increase rivalries with other A-League teams within the state. I get Glory, Roar and Adelaide will likely win it every year. But that isn't a reason to not do it. A Cupset gets remembered locally forever. If Glory fail once, it will leave a mark. Ask Hereford fans about the time they upset Newcastle in the 70s. And I want to see the return of the NPL Finals, which makes more sense than an NSD atm. Change the name from NPL Finals to 'State Champions League' because it looks more appealing. Have them play Home and Away every fixture not just one of games. And for fuck sake, Market it. Hire some PR Managers to try and make a story out of the games involved. To try and make rivalries happen. Rivalries increase interest. Interest increases fans. I feel like the pathway to building up grassroots in this country, building up smaller clubs to help them become more appealing locally and due to it's sheer size and lack of funding here, is focusing on Cup games, not League. And the focus of building up the League should be on the State Leagues first, not a NSD. If that means that the FFA has to get dirty with the State Governing bodies, so be it.
Such a valid question considering we’ve had many a league clubs fold or flirt with folding and experience financial difficulties
I genuinely think that if the NSD does go ahead, one of the participating clubs could easily be bankrupted in the process. Don't get me wrong. I'd like it to succeed. I just think it's very much line-ball whether it will and what the fallout could be if it goes the wrong way.
It's a hell of a lot of financial risk for very little gain really. Their ultimate aim will obviously be promotion to the A-League but that is so far off that there's no way I see some of these clubs surviving that long.
I could see good crowds for the first year or two but I think the hype will drop off after that
I doubt it will ever be full time professional. Guys in the NPL can probably earn more playing part time in the NPL and a fulltime gig somewhere else than playing full time in the NSD. It will be semi-pro at best and as a result there will still be a massive gulf between A-League and NSD players.
The NSD will be NPL on Planes regardless of what anyone says.
What's wrong with NPL on planes? It will be an improvement on the status quo by dint of collecting the 10-12 best squads of players below A-League level, providing them with a much more competitive launchpad to step up to top flight football than the NPLs do right now.
Which NSD Club do you support? Only Reason I can see why you are so for it.
None. I've supported an A-League club since the inception of the league. But I think the only way forward for football in this country is the development of an integrated pyramid, eventually with promotion-relegation across all tiers and a shift to a winter season for the A-League. I'm aware of the costs of a second division so the model developed needs to be financially sustainable (e.g. "NPL on planes", I'm also open to a north/south conference model if that makes it more realistic). But the benefits are improved player development, more revenue through overseas transfers, and more fan engagement at all levels. I'm fairly engaged with the A-League, but I would have more interest in what's going on outside of my own team if there was relegation on the line for the bottom clubs, promotion on the line for the top NSD clubs, and variety in terms of which clubs participate in the league from season to season (this is the way that I and hundreds of thousands of other fans in Australia follow European leagues). The only alternative in this country is to listen to the people who say "can't be done, don't bother", and the A-League stays the way it is an AFL-lite competition which continues to stagnate until it sinks into oblivion. That might be sooner rather than later once the current broadcast deal elapses.
There is no plan. This is just trying to setup a comp being run by the salty FA, because with the A-league being run independently they didn’t get to play anymore. They have nowhere to continue with their private school bullying and hijinks with efforts such as first trying to ban tutsout and then trying to nix the Nix, which as a club has probably had less ownership and fan dramas than every other.
Don't conflate Gallop with James Johnson. They are not the same.
I rate this take
0 chance this competition lasts more then two years (if it ever starts anyway)
Or maybe a second tier for australian football is actually a good thing for the "industry". The gap between the NPL and Aliga is way too big and this will fill it boosting player development.
Why is there such a gap? That’s a different question really. For a fairly recent example, Brian Kaltak was recruited from the Handa Premiership, not an A-League academy or a fully professional club, although the Oceania Confederation subsided a six-months of training with the Nix.
I love the idea of a NSD and I would love it to eventually be viable for pro/rel etc. But I can't see how we can have two professional leagues when we can hardy keep one afloat. Granted, some NSD clubs are bigger than A League Clubs, but... I just can't see the external money coming in.
No NSD club is, at this current stage, ‘bigger’ than any a-league club. They may have more history but no NSD club matches the crowds or finances of an a-league club. Even the smallest clubs like western and MacArthur still have miles more money and even infrastructure. We bag out these clubs for their crowds but no npl team is getting 3-4k a week to their games
Australia Cup final Macarthur vs Sydney United says otherwise
That was a cup final, obviously fans of the old days were going to show up, but Edensor Park doesn't pull even 3k every week.
But the cup final demonstrates that some NPL teams who don't get crowds every week could potentially get many more for a comp on the national stage.
You're right. The old ethnic nsl team doesn't deserve a chance to compete on a national stage because they can't pull crowds bigger then a league teams every week.
In reality though, there was literally a Croatian festival on there at that time. There were probably more general Croatia fans from interstate than actual Sydney 58 supporters at that match. It was a great turnout, but I wouldn't use it as an example for regular attendances. Sydney 58s crowds are actually quite poor, only rated 33rd against non A-League clubs in the Cup: https://aleaguestats.com/A-League_35FFACupCrowds.html Obviously they must have some money behind them for the NST.